Let's Talk Brain Health ft. Dr. Daniel Amen

Summary

Podcast Summary: Khloé in Wonder Land – "Let's Talk Brain Health ft. Dr. Daniel Amen"

Episode Information:

• Title: Let's Talk Brain Health ft. Dr. Daniel Amen
• Host: Khloé Kardashian
• Guest: Dr. Daniel Amen
• Release Date: April 10, 2025

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Introduction to Brain Health

In this enlightening episode of Khloé in Wonder Land, Khloé Kardashian engages in a deep conversation with Dr. Daniel Amen, a world-renowned psychiatrist, brain expert, and New York Times bestselling author. The episode delves into the critical importance of brain health, the significance of brain imaging, and how understanding our brains can transform various aspects of our lives, including parenting, relationships, and personal well-being.

The Importance of Brain Imaging

Dr. Amen begins by emphasizing the often-overlooked significance of brain health. He highlights the disparity in medical practices where organs like the heart and liver are routinely imaged and monitored, whereas the brain remains neglected.

Dr. Daniel Amen (00:15): "Most people don't care about their brains. Why? You can't see it. You can see the wrinkles in your skin, fat around your belly. Why don't we screen our brain? How do you know unless you look right?"

Khloé and her sister Kendall Jenner express their realization about the importance of brain scans, acknowledging that brain health should be as prioritized as other organ health checks.

Critique of Traditional Psychiatry

A significant portion of the discussion criticizes the traditional approach in psychiatry, where diagnoses are often based solely on symptom clusters without biological data. Dr. Amen points out the reliance on medications without understanding the underlying brain dysfunctions.

Dr. Daniel Amen (03:36): "Psychiatrists are the only medical doctors who never look at the organ they treat."

He further elaborates on the staggering number of antidepressant prescriptions issued without any imaging to guide treatment, labeling it as "insane."

Personal Stories and Impacts of Trauma

Dr. Amen shares personal anecdotes to illustrate the profound impact of brain injuries and trauma on mental health. He references Kendall Jenner's brain scan, revealing decreased blood flow and activity in specific brain regions due to a car accident she experienced at 16.

Kendall Jenner (42:42): "I had a car accident. 16. And I went through my windshield with my head, and my lower body was stuck under the steering wheel, and I was knocked out."

This personal connection underscores the episode's theme: understanding and treating brain health is essential for overall well-being.

Prevention and Reversal of Alzheimer’s Disease

The conversation shifts to the prevention of Alzheimer's disease. Dr. Amen references a study published in The Lancet stating that 50% of Alzheimer's cases are preventable by addressing 11 major risk factors.

Dr. Daniel Amen (21:21): "Last year, the Lancet published an article that said 50% of Alzheimer's disease is preventable."

He outlines preventative measures, including maintaining a healthy weight, managing diabetes, reducing alcohol and drug use, and addressing inflammatory conditions like COVID-19 and Lyme disease.

Innovative Treatments and Supplements

Dr. Amen discusses various treatments that go beyond traditional medication. He introduces Saffron supplements as a natural alternative to SSRIs for treating depression, highlighting their efficacy and minimal side effects.

Dr. Daniel Amen (37:32): "There are now 26 randomized controlled trials showing it is equally effective in treating depression as Prozac and Zoloft and Wellbutrin, but dramatically fewer side effects."

He also touches upon EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) therapy, explaining its benefits in processing trauma without the negative repercussions often associated with traditional talk therapy.

Dr. Daniel Amen (48:26): "With EMDR, you actually bring it up and they have your eyes going back and forth, and it begins to integrate the trauma, connect it to other things in the past, and then it dissipates."

Parenting and Brain Health for Children

The episode underscores the importance of fostering brain health from a young age. Dr. Amen emphasizes creating a supportive environment to prevent brain dysfunctions and behavioral issues in children.

Dr. Daniel Amen (46:20): "It's like the research is so clear and we should not let him hit a soccer ball or your daughter hit her soccer ball with their head. It's like knowing tennis is great. Table tennis is the best coordination exercises, dancing, all that is amazing."

He introduces Chloe's Game for Kids, an interactive tool designed to educate children about brain health in a fun and engaging manner.

Strategies for Improving Brain Health

Dr. Amen provides actionable strategies for listeners to enhance their brain health:

1. One Page Miracle: Writing down personal goals and desires across various life domains to align actions with aspirations.

   Dr. Daniel Amen (32:55): "On one piece of paper, write down what you want. What do you want out of life in your relationships... with your money, with your work."

2. Killing the ANTS (Automatic Negative Thoughts): Identifying and challenging negative thoughts to improve mental well-being.

   Dr. Daniel Amen (33:42): "Thoughts that come into your mind automatically and ruin your day."

3. Mindful Practices: Incorporating daily routines like recounting "micro happies" – small positive moments of the day – to boost happiness and reduce stress.

   Dr. Daniel Amen (53:43): "What went well today?... people who do that for just three weeks notice a significant increase in their level of happiness."

Balancing the Brain and Mind

A crucial distinction made in the conversation is between the brain and the mind. Dr. Amen explains that while the brain is the physical organ, the mind is influenced by how we program and think, often affected by external factors like social media.

Dr. Daniel Amen (51:26): "Your brain, the moment by moment physical function of your brain creates your mind. And if your brain's not right, your mind's not right."

He advises listeners to be mindful of what they allow into their minds, especially from platforms designed to capture attention for monetary gain.

Conclusion and Future Directions

The episode wraps up with a hopeful outlook on the future of brain health. Dr. Amen envisions a paradigm shift where brain imaging becomes a standard practice in psychiatry, leading to more personalized and effective treatments. He expresses optimism that within the next decade, the approach to mental health will be radically different, focusing more on brain health and less on symptom-based treatments.

Dr. Daniel Amen (11:43): "I think 10 years from now, it's gonna be radically different."

Khloé expresses her gratitude and commitment to continuing her brain health journey, highlighting the transformative insights gained from the conversation.

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Key Takeaways:

• Brain Imaging is Essential: Regular brain scans can identify dysfunctions early, leading to more effective treatments.
• Preventative Measures Matter: Addressing lifestyle factors can significantly reduce the risk of neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's.
• Personalized Treatments Over Medication: Understanding the specific brain activity allows for tailored interventions rather than a one-size-fits-all approach.
• Educating the Next Generation: Teaching children about brain health fosters long-term well-being.
• Mind and Brain are Distinct: While the brain's health is foundational, the mind's programming through thoughts and external influences plays a crucial role in overall mental health.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Daniel Amen (00:15): "Most people don't care about their brains. Why? You can't see it."
• Dr. Daniel Amen (03:36): "Psychiatrists are the only medical doctors who never look at the organ they treat."
• Dr. Daniel Amen (21:21): "50% of Alzheimer's disease is preventable."
• Dr. Daniel Amen (37:32): "Saffron is equally effective in treating depression as Prozac and Zoloft."
• Dr. Daniel Amen (53:43): "What went well today?... people who do that for just three weeks notice a significant increase in their level of happiness."

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This episode serves as a compelling call to action for listeners to prioritize their brain health, seek comprehensive evaluations, and embrace lifestyle changes that promote cognitive well-being. Dr. Daniel Amen's expertise offers valuable insights that challenge conventional psychiatric practices, advocating for a more informed and proactive approach to mental health.

Transcript

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Hello. Hello.

[Chloe Kardashian]

Hi, Doctor. Amen.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

How have you been?

[Kendall Jenner]

Good. How about you?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Having the time of my life.

[Kendall Jenner]

Good.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Most people don't care about their brains. Why? You can't see it. You can see the wrinkles in your skin, fat around your belly. Why don't we screen our brain? How do you know unless you look right?

[Kendall Jenner]

You're against drinking in its entirety, correct?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, anything that increases the risk of seven different types of cancer, I'm against. I want energy, memory, focus. I want passion. Well, alcohol just doesn't fit, right? I'm like, I hated the term mental illness. It's shaming, it's stigmatizing. So what if mental health was really brain health? And that's the revolution that I'm trying to create Foreign.

[Kendall Jenner]

Welcome to Chloe in Wonderland. This is the podcast for real and raw conversations from the stories you haven't heard to the curiosities that we all share. Dr. Daniel Amen, world renowned psychiatrist, brain expert, and number one New York Times best selling author, is joining me today and we are diving deep. He scanned over 200,000 and brains worked with the biggest names in Hollywood and sports. And he's completely changed how we think about brain health. We're getting into it all. Parenting, relationships, and yes, he's seen the inside of my brain. What did he find? What does it mean? And how can you rewire your brain to change your life? So I've had the pleasure and the privilege of meeting you through my sister Kendall, and we actually went to your clinic in Encino and I got to get my brain scanned by you. And it was such a privilege. And you were on our show Kardashians, and that was so significant. I feel like so many people from watching the show, I saw so much of the commentary. So many people had no idea that you could do scans on your brain. And I think people think you have to have an injury in order to do something like that, or be, I don't know, a football player or be in a car accident along those lines. And it is such a blessing. I know you started this in the 70s and this is your life mission, but I don't know. Just, I. What I really want to come across in this conversation is the importance of brain imaging. And I think I was listening to either your TED Talk or something else. And it really resonated with me that every other doctor, if they're a cardiologist, they're analyzing imaging of the heart. If they're ear, nose, and throat doctor, they're looking at imaging for ear, nose and throat. Or checking down your throat visually. And you're the only type of doctor where they weren't doing brain scans. And you were like, well, how does that make sense? Why am I advising you or prescribing you medication? But I don't really know what part of the brain is hurting and that. I don't know why I didn't realize that before until you said that.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You said that so well.

[Kendall Jenner]

Did I? Oh, my gosh. I felt like I fumbled that one.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I mean, think about this. Psychiatrists are the only medical doctors who never look at the organ they treat. So last year there were over 340 million prescriptions.

[Kendall Jenner]

Oh my gosh.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Written for antidepressants without any biological data. That's insane. Right? I'm a psychiatrist, so I know how to diagnose crazy. And that's crazy.

[Kendall Jenner]

Right?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Because if you don't look, then you don't know. Was it the car accident when you were 16 that contributed to being sad? Or was it because your brain works too hard because you had a sexual assault, or was it because you live in a mold filled home? You just don't know. And when I started looking at the brain, it changed absolutely everything in my life. If one of my kids dates somebody new, they're going to be scanned.

[Kendall Jenner]

Oh, I love that.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And my 21 year old, Chloe, who is in love and I love her boy.

[Kendall Jenner]

Oh, good.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But he played football and so, yes, we have to look at his brain.

[Kendall Jenner]

Are any of them ever opposed to being scanned?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

No.

[Kendall Jenner]

Oh, good.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Because they, they realize if you're in my family, the brain matters.

[Kendall Jenner]

Right?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Right. And so it's just something you do. And I was married once before and I got divorced 25 years ago and I. If I was ever going to get married again, the first naked part of her I wanted to see was her brain. And Tana and I've been together for 20 years. I scanned her literally three weeks after we met each other. And nobody thinks about it. Right. You go to a marital therapist or relationship therapist and no one's looking at the brain, which is just crazy.

[Kendall Jenner]

You're so right. But so many things I admire about you, but specifically, I think the empathy you have for the position that you're in, I think you know what responsibility you hold for people. But to say that, and I'm paraphrasing, so excuse me, that you've thrown so many darts at the dark, diagnosing people and it's some of them, you might have hurt some of your patients by misdiagnosing medications to them. And I don't know if that many doctors respectfully, but would admit something like that. And I think that's such a beautiful thing to say and how you don't believe in a one size fits all for a medication or an ailment and that you're looking at the brain and you can have adhd, for example, and I've seen some of your scans, but they could be in different parts of the brain, correct?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Right. I mean, one of the first big lessons is all psychiatric illnesses, anxiety, depression, ocd, adhd, it's not one thing. I mean, you would never give everyone who had chest pain the same treatment. Right? That would be malpractice, that would be stupid, that would be insane. But yet you go tell your doctor you're depressed. The first thing he or she is going to do is give you an ssri, which in large scale studies work no better than placebo. And it's like, well, why is that? Because SSRIs work for the right brain, but they do not work for the wrong brain. In fact, they can make you worse. So my wife Tana, when she was, she writes about this in her book, the Relentless Courage of a Scared Child. She grew up in a really crazy environment and in her mid-20s she had thyroid cancer.

[Kendall Jenner]

Oh, wow.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And she went to, you see, Irvine and saw a psychiatrist and he gave her Prozac. And it made her less anxious, but it also disinhibited her. And all of a sudden she's in Costa Rica with someone she had just met going, how did I get here? She started making really impulsive, stupid decisions. And when you look at her brain, she has sleepy frontal lobes. And SSRIs, serotonin is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, calms things down. So if you start with sleepy frontal lobes, it makes them sleepier and then it's like taking the break off of your impulse control. So getting the wrong medicine can disrupt your life in a very bad way.

[Kendall Jenner]

Now I feel like it's more, I don't want to say trendy, but it's more common probably to get brain scans. But why do you think in the 70s, 80s, 90s, why were you such an advocate but others were not?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So 1991, I went to my first lecture on brain spect imaging. That's what we do. And so excited. I'm still excited. And the next year I went to an all day lecture at the American Psychiatric association on brain SPECT imaging in child psychiatry. So there was a lot of excitement, but very quickly they realized Scans don't go with the current paradigm. They don't go with making diagnoses based on symptom clusters with no biological data. And we have our big bible. It's called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the dsm. And it really goes, okay, the DSM is not the thing. And all of a sudden, the American Psychiatric association went, oh, no, we shouldn't scan. And that's really when the war. When I went to war with the American Psychiatric association, even though I have their highest award they give members, and if I'm right, and I am, you should image the brain before you go about messing with means that 40,000 psychiatrists and hundreds of thousands of regular doctors are not doing the right thing. When you tell people that, they don't say thank you. And there's actually this great book called the Structure of Scientific Revolution. It's how do revolutions happen? And the first thing is, somebody notices a problem, the outcomes in psychiatry are no better than they were in the 1950s. We should be ashamed of that. So the outcomes are not better than the year I was born in 1954.

[Kendall Jenner]

That's sad.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So someone notices there's a problem. The status quo notices the problem. But they make small changes because they're protecting the money. And then someone comes up with a new mousetrap. We should scan. When you scan and look at the brain, you then treat it as an organ, and you just don't try to drug it into submission. You get people to eat better, you get them to exercise, you get them to go to sleep, you get them to put down their phones, give them supplements to nourish their brain. One of the things for you recommended hyperbaric oxygen to help repair the accident you had. It's not just, oh, you have this. Take that. And so the next stage in the revolution, if it disrupts somebody's money and I disrupt the pharmaceutical industry, then they try and kill you.

[Kendall Jenner]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And that's just normal. It's what happens, sadly. And I think 10 years from now, it's gonna be radically different.

[Kendall Jenner]

Oh, I love to hear that. And I apologize. I said the 70s. But that's when you started, when you went.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So I went to medical school in the 70s, so. So my short story is I was 18, Vietnam was still going on, and I had a low draft number and became an infantry medic. And my love of medicine was born there. But about a year into it, I realized I didn't like getting shot at. It's like, not for me.

[Kendall Jenner]

I don't like it.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And so I got retrained as an X ray technician. And then that was the thing our professors used to say, how do you know unless you look? And then I got out of the army, finished college, went to medical school. It's 1979, I marry my childhood sweetheart. Two months later she tries to kill herself. And I took her to see a wonderful psychiatrist. And I came to realize if he helped her, which he did, wouldn't just help her, would help me help our children, it would help our grandchildren. But I fell in love with the only medical specialty that never looks at the organ and treats. And I knew it was wrong. I just had no idea I'd be involved in the change. And back then, I hated the term mental illness. Right? If you looked at my ex wife and go, she has a mental illness, it's shaming, it's stigmatizing. Nobody wants it. What if we thought of these as brain health issues? Nobody wants to be called mental. Everybody likes to be called a brain.

[Kendall Jenner]

Yes, Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So what if mental health was really brain health? And that's the revolution that I'm trying to create. It's like, let's stop calling these things mental.

[Kendall Jenner]

Let's create the brain.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I had one of my young stars came into my office and, you know, sometimes they come, sometimes they don't, sometimes they do what you say, mostly they don't. But he came into my office and he said, I think I get what you're trying to tell me. My brain is an organ. Like my heart is an organ. If you told me I had heart problems, I'd do everything you said. So I'm going to do everything you say. And then he just got better. And I'm so excited about changing the paradigm away from, you know, more money for mental health care as it's currently practiced. That's just going to get us deeper into this disaster we're in. But more money to create a brain health. Yes, Revolution.

[Chloe Kardashian]

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[Kendall Jenner]

I mean it is interesting. Obviously our heart's an organ, our brain's an organ. But you're right, there is not so much isolated attention on the brain as there is. Are your arteries clogged? Do you have heart issues? Stomach problems? I feel like we focus on all these other things but our brain seems to be neglected way more than the other organs. At least that's the way I perceive it. And I went and took your scan. It was so easy if not almost enjoyable because we had to do the online test and I had to beat the clock. And I was, I'm very competitive so I was like no. And so for me it was almost fun to do that part but I still was like I gotta do better. And then I went. I got scanned by you. What was that? 30 minutes? Yeah. It's not a long process to do whatsoever painless. Absolutely nothing like that. I played a video game that I would say with my eyes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Right, you did a cpt. So we started the IV because it involves a radiopharmaceutical that lights up your brain. And after we start the IV you took a continuous performance test which is 15 minute test of attention which you actually scored well on. And every time you see a letter you hit the spacebar. Except when you see the letter X, you have to inhibit that but you.

[Kendall Jenner]

Feel like you're playing a game. It's not scary. And it's not scary instantly.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

We do little kids and old people and we've now done 260,000 scans on people from 155 countries is that it starts a love affair with your own brain. And most people don't care about their brains. And in 1991 I didn't care about my own brain. I'm a double board certified psychiatrist. Board certified in general psychiatry, child and adolescent psychiatry. Was the top student in our neuroscience classes. And I didn't care about my brain. Why? You can't see it.

[Kendall Jenner]

Right?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You can see the wrinkles in your skin or the fat around your belly, and you do something when you're unhappy with that. But the brain is one of the only organs we don't screen. Right. Why don't we screen our brain? Given that if you're blessed to live to 85 or older, you have a 1 in 2 chance of having lost your mind. Right. You have a 50% risk of being diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease or other forms of dementia just by being 85. And I'm like, no, I'm not okay with that. Right. I love my six kids, but I never want to have to live with them. Right. I don't want them. We're taking his keys from him. We're gonna put him in a.

[Kendall Jenner]

No. Put him in a home. And if I heard properly, you can diagnose dementia or Alzheimer's 30 years prior to it actually happening. Like, you can see it from the scans that you do. And so is there a way to prevent it, even if it's detectable on a scan?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yes.

[Kendall Jenner]

Wow.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So in 2005, I wrote a book called Preventing Alzheimer's with a friend of mine, and I get so much grief. It's like, no, you can't do that. No, you can't do it. Last year, the Lancet published an article that said 50% of Alzheimer's disease is preventable. Wow. And how do you prevent it? You prevent or treat the 11 major risk factors that steal your mind. So if you knew a train was going to hit you, wouldn't you at least want to get out of the way?

[Kendall Jenner]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Right. And so, for example, what we learned is, if you're overweight, as your weight goes up, the actual physical size and function of the brain goes down, and that should scare the fat off anyone. If you have diabetes, much more likely to get Alzheimer's disease. If you have low blood flow to your brain for whatever reason, too much caffeine, alcohol, marijuana, nicotine, not good for your brain. And so when you fall in love with your brain, you realize you have to treat it better. And I think Covid, and that was the reason I saw Kendall initially. She got really anxious after she got Covid, and you could just see the inflammatory bomb that went off in her brain. Infectious disease is a major cause of psychiatric illnesses, and nobody knows it. And I didn't know it. Right. It was not in my training program, but Covid, for example. If you get Covid, you have a 25% increased risk of having a new onset psychiatric illness within the next six months.

[Kendall Jenner]

Wow.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Oh, my goodness. Or Lyme disease. And California is We have a lot of Lyme disease here. If you put a map up of the highest incidence of schizophrenia in the United States, it's the Northeast, the North, Midwest, and the West Coast.

[Kendall Jenner]

Wow.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So highest incidence of schizophrenia, and you overlay that with the highest incidence of Lyme disease. They're virtually identical.

[Kendall Jenner]

Wow.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So is it possible, if you have schizophrenia or you love somebody with it, should you at least be screened for Lyme disease? And you should look, because if you're psychotic, which means you've lost touch with reality, that's a brain dysfunction.

[Kendall Jenner]

And is that able to be reversed often?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

In fact, one of my best stories. I love stories. It's.

[Kendall Jenner]

I love stories. Do tell.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So Adriana, 16, beautiful, straight A's. Her family goes to Yosemite on vacation, and when they get to their mountain cabin, they're surrounded by six deer. And they think it's a magical moment. But 10 days later, Adriana starts to hallucinate. She becomes paranoid, she's aggressive. She ends up in a psychiatric hospital. Not once, three times. She's on multiple antipsychotic medications, and her mother's just beside herself. And the last doctor told the mother she has schizophrenia. She's going to be on these medications for the rest of her life. At which point her mother found me, brought her to one of my clinics. We saw that her brain was inflamed, and we didn't know why. And it turned out she had Lyme disease from a deer tick.

[Kendall Jenner]

And it happened that quickly.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It happens that quickly.

[Kendall Jenner]

Wow.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And on an antibiotic, Adriana got her life back and then ended up finishing high school, graduated from Pepperdine, got a master's degree from the University of London, and today she's normal.

[Kendall Jenner]

But what a testament to the mother as well, because so many people don't know what to do. And I think that's why I'm so honored that. I mean, you're so incredible on social media. I need you to know that I was talking to my mom about that, and it's so exciting that I get to have someone as knowledgeable and profound as you. But there's so many takeaways that people can receive from an episode like this, because we understand what you're saying, and there. And that's the same thing on your social media. It's so incredible how, yes, I know you know all the big words and all the medical terms, but you're just. You're so relatable, and there's so many takeaways that people can receive, and I think you make people feel safe with you and maybe because you've been doing it for so long, but you also give people so much hope where so many people don't just say, well, here, here's this prescription. Take this and we'll see you in six months and see if it works.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Now, I work really hard to say things as simply as I can because I never want the words to get in the way. And we have a high school course called brain thrive by 25. So excited about it. And it was studied, so it's 12 weeks, 24 hours. We teach middle schoolers, high schoolers to love and care for their brain.

[Kendall Jenner]

Oh, I love that.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Decreases drug, alcohol and tobacco use, decreases depression and it improves self esteem.

[Kendall Jenner]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And that's the answer to this epidemic problem. And people go, oh, it's social media. And yeah, social media is part of it. And oh, it's our ultra processed foods.

[Kendall Jenner]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And that's part of it. But nobody loves and cares for their brain. If you love and care for it because you realize that's your future, you're just less likely to smoke pot, which is not innocuous. Right. That's the messaging is, it's innocuous. You're less likely to drink. Alcohol is not a health food. You're suspicious about psilocybin, which is now it's the most common question I get asked when I lecture, you know, what do you think about magic mushrooms? And I'm like, I'm really worried because I think it's going to go the way the opiate epidemic went.

[Kendall Jenner]

Oh, wow. Really?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah. Remember in the late 90s, my wife's a nurse and she said, oh, now pain is the fifth vital sign. We have to ask them about their pain. And if they're in pain, they need an opiate. And it got us this incredible disaster we're in now. We need to be cautious. And you know, if you take an opiate, for example, it makes your white blood cells mad and so helps in the short run, in the long run, makes you dependent on them. Them.

[Kendall Jenner]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Because you've made your white blood cells mad. Now you always have to calm them down.

[Kendall Jenner]

For any. Like you're against drinking in its entirety. Correct.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, anything that increases the risk of seven different types of cancer, I'm against. And there's not a week that goes by where alcohol hasn't devastated one of my patients or family members lives.

[Kendall Jenner]

Wow.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's just always because they drink and then they say things they shouldn't say or they do things they shouldn't do. So yeah, Not a fan of alcohol.

[Kendall Jenner]

So for me, I think I drink like two or three times a year. I'm not a big drinker, but normally my birthday, I'll rage a little. But after you've kids, it's hard to do that. But I also realize the older I get, it could be age or just maybe my tolerance isn't. You just. There's no reward. The next day you realize, gosh, I just got thrown. I work out five days a week, and certain things, I love being a present parent. And you just realize, okay, this really doesn't feel good. This is horrible. But trust me, I think I've done a lot of damage in my 20s. Is that damage that was done in my 20s able to be reversed? Or for anyone listening if they're like, okay, I'm not at that place that I'm gonna take any sort of physical. Like, my health journey isn't my first priority. Are there things at home that people can do to improve their brain function? Or by just cutting out these things in life, does your brain sort of regenerate itself on its own?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, that's the exciting news is even if you've been bad to your brain, you can make it better. And I can prove it. So I did the big NFL study. I've scanned and treated 400 NFL players, cool players like Terry Bradshaw and Dick Buckus. 80% of my players with these bad brains get better when we put them on a rehabilitation program. And I was just thinking about BJ Fogg, who's a friend of mine. He's a professor at Stanford. We were at a conference together. We did some work together. And he said, I wake up 100% every day. And I'm like, why? He said, because of you, I stopped drinking. So the question really becomes, with alcohol or other things that are not good for your brain is what do you really want? Right? If you really go inside and you go, what do I really want? And I want energy. I want memory. I want focus. I want creativity. I want connection. I want passion. Well, alcohol just doesn't fit any, right? I'm like, if I got a tattoo, I don't have any, and beware of them. Right? New research on lymphomas and tattoos.

[Kendall Jenner]

Say it louder because I do not want my kids to get tattoos.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yes. So.

[Kendall Jenner]

But I have one. But, you know, I've done a lot of stupid.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I know my wife, like, completely freaked me out, but it was like our daughter's birthday. On the back of her.

[Kendall Jenner]

Mine is my dad's handwriting. And he passed away. So at least it's not like a.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

If I got one, it would be, does it fit. Does my behavior fit the goals I have for my life? So with all of my patients, one of the first things I do is an exercise called the One Page Miracle. On one piece of paper, write down what you want. What do you want out of life in your relationships? So if you're married, what do you want with your spouse? Or you have a partner? What do you want with your children? What do you want with your family? What do you want with your money? What do you want with your work? What do you want with your physical, emotional, and spiritual health? What do you want? And then does it fit in my book? I brought you a copy. It's called your Brain is Always Listening. One of my favorite books. I rewrote the 12 step program because, you know, the addiction 12 step program was written in the 1930s and there's no neuroscience in it.

[Kendall Jenner]

I realize it was written that long ago. I assumed they would be updating it.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

No.

[Kendall Jenner]

Wow.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And so I updated it.

[Kendall Jenner]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And so step one is admitting your life is out of control. And from a neuroscience perspective, I'm like, no, that's step two. Step one is, what do you want? Relationships, work, money, physical, emotional, spiritual health. Really get clarity. And then step two, my life is out of control is real easy because it doesn't fit what you want.

[Kendall Jenner]

Right. For speaking of addicts, are you able when you scan someone's brain, is there neurons that are going off if someone has an addictive personality?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So I wrote another book called Unchain youn Brain. Breaking the addictions. It's steal your life. And it's not one thing. It's like six different things. And so you have to know what type. And when I first started scanning in 1991, I was the director of a substance abuse treatment program. And their brains were so bad.

[Kendall Jenner]

Wow.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I mean, one of the reasons I don't drink is it makes your brain look older than you are. Their brains look smaller, they look shriveled and unlike. I have a poster that hangs in about a hundred thousand schools and prisons and doctor's offices around the world called which Brain do you want? Healthy scan, drug affected scans. And it's no, but they're impulsive addicts, people who really think about it all the time, but they can't control their impulses when they get a craving. They're compulsive addicts. People think about it all the time. They can't get away from it. They're impulsive compulsive addicts where they have combinations of that. Sad addicts, anxious addicts and head trauma addicts that if you have a bad injury, you're much more likely to have trouble seeing. No. To drugs and alcohol. And so if you know the type.

[Kendall Jenner]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So, for example, our impulse of addicts, very high in our ADD group. Our compulsive addicts higher in our OCD group.

[Kendall Jenner]

It's so fascinating. And you have 11 offices. Where are they at if people want to go and get scanned by you?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So big places like New York and Atlanta and Hollywood, Florida, Chicago, Dallas. We have a new clinic in Phoenix, Orange County, Encino, just north of Los Angeles. San Francisco and Seattle.

[Kendall Jenner]

Amazing. I mean, I went to the one in Encino. I have been doing hyperbaric and stuff like that since I've seen you. You are also the person that's got me on Saffron. Saffron pills I take. And it's about mood adjustments. Like, there's so I. And I. I do believe that Saffron really works. I love it. And there's no side effects if you don't. But I would love. I do want to go back and get another scan with you. Just. Why not? And because also, last time I didn't do my treatments with you, I was just at a different place in my life. And I want to be. I'm ready to take the brain health journey with you.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I would love that.

[Kendall Jenner]

I am.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Can we talk about Saffron for a little bit? Yes. Because a lot of people don't know this. There are now 26 randomized controlled trials showing it is equally effective in treating depression as Prozac and Zoloft and Wellbutrin, but dramatically fewer side effects. And so I started paying attention to saffron about 25 years ago when the first study came out. And what really piqued my attention, because there are a lot of supplements that have antidepressant effects like St. John's Wort, but it was pro sexual. And that I'm like. Because things like Lexapro and Prozac and Zoloft, they decrease libido and you have a harder time having an orgasm. And I'm like, no, I don't want to do that for my patients. I want them to like me. I want their sex life to be better.

[Kendall Jenner]

And that can make you even more.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Mess it up.

[Kendall Jenner]

Depressed.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Right. And so I'm like. And then over the last 25 years, now there's 26 randomized controlled trials. Helps with mood helps with PMS. Helps. One study with hot flashes, it helps memory. Five studies with Alzheimer's disease, it helps improve memory. There's five studies with ADHD. And I'm like, memory, mood, and sex. So we released Happy Saffron. That's the one we make. February of 2020. So right before the pandemic. And I think it just got me through the pandemic.

[Kendall Jenner]

I think it got a lot of people through the pandemic. Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So there's folklore in Persia. If you're too happy, you must have had saffron.

[Kendall Jenner]

Well, that is the one that I take is the Happy Saffron. And I love it.

[Chloe Kardashian]

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[Kendall Jenner]

So, Dr. Amen, I got a brain scan from you a few years ago and I would love to go over the scans with you. I know you brought them in today.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, let me show you a healthy scan. Okay, so we do a study called SPECT S P E C T and SPECT looks at blood flow and activity. It looks at how your brain works. And it basically shows us three things. Good activity, too little or too much, and then our job is to balance it. These images are looking at the outside surface. And here we're looking underneath the brain, down from the top one side, then the other. And the color doesn't matter in these. It should just be full, even, and symmetrical.

[Kendall Jenner]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

The images on the right, the color does matter. Blue is average activity. Red is the top 15%. White's the top 8%.

[Kendall Jenner]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So white's like the super active areas of the brain, and they should be here in the back, called the cerebellum. And it's the Rodney Dangerfield part of the brand. It gets no respect. Now, a lot of young people don't know who Rodney Dangerfield is, and it makes me feel old, but he's a very famous comedian who always said, I get no respect. And then he'd talk about why I didn't get any respect. And when you came to first see me, you wanted a better memory, wanted to talk about the car accident you had. You could get stuck on things, and there was some past emotional trauma. And we know if we look at your brain, your brain got hurt. And you can actually see the left front side of your brain. There's a hole. Now, it's not a physical hole, but what it means is there's significantly less blood flow, less activity than there could be or should be.

[Kendall Jenner]

Right?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Right. And even though you scored well on the CPT test, on the X test, when we tested you again, your focus was like 17%. Like, on a scale of 0 to 100, it wasn't awesome. And that could go with decreased here. And I think this is trauma, physical trauma. And you had a car accident.

[Kendall Jenner]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

When you were 16?

[Kendall Jenner]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Tell me about it.

[Kendall Jenner]

I had a car accident. 16. And I went through my windshield with my head, and my lower body was stuck under the steering wheel, and I was knocked out. And so I believe that's definitely, probably what that is.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And that. And a lot of people don't understand if you go, hey, Daniel, what's the single most important thing you've learned from 260,000 scans? Mild traumatic brain injury is a major cause of psychiatric problems, and nobody knows about it because nobody's looking at the brain. That one accident can literally change the trajectory of someone's life. Because people who have concussions often develop something called Erlen syndrome. I, R, L, E, N. And those patients often have migraines. Do you have Migraines, I do.

[Kendall Jenner]

I've suffered from them since the sixth grade though. So prior.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So prior to this, Yes.

[Kendall Jenner]

I think they could have been hormonal. But I'm on, I take a medication for them and it's literally changed my life because mine were debilitating like I could not. If I got a migraine, I would have to cancel on you. I could never be under these lights.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So I want you to learn about Irlen syndrome. So it was actually developed by Helen Erlin. She was a school psychologist. She realized that certain colors of the light spectrum disrupted brain function and caused people will look like they had ADD or learning problems or migraines and often depth perception issues as well. And on my scans they often have increased activity in certain parts of the brain. If you go to earland.com there's a self test you can take and if you have it, I'll connect you.

[Kendall Jenner]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

With the Earl and clinic. And it's.

[Kendall Jenner]

Will you write that down so I could go to that site?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Something as simple as colored filtered lenses dramatically changes people's lives.

[Kendall Jenner]

That's incredible. Okay, I'm gonna do that.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I have so many stories with Erlin. Okay, it's so helpful. But back to your scan. Trouble in the first front and you hurt your opposite side temporal lobe, which could be involved in mood and memory and anxiety and irritability. And so likely what happened is your head hit the windshield, probably the left side of your head, but the force went toward the right side of your. Your skull. So it was probably this kind of impact to your brain.

[Kendall Jenner]

I've. I'm sure I've had a few head trauma situations. I mean, I think I even told you. Look, I remember I slipped in a shower and like I cracked even some of my back teeth and I hit my head. I used to horseback ride. I've fallen off horses a few times. Things that I just don't put myself in those positions anymore. I obviously still shower, but I. Besides that, I try to wrap myself in bubble wrap.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

How old are your children?

[Kendall Jenner]

My daughter will be seven in April and I have a two and a.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Half year old son and he shouldn't play football.

[Kendall Jenner]

No, he will not.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's like the research is so clear and we should not let him hit a soccer ball or your daughter hit her soccer ball with their head. It's like know tennis is great. Table tennis is the best coordination. Exercises, dancing, all that is amazing. But we have to love our children's brains. Do you have a new book called Raising mentally strong Kids?

[Kendall Jenner]

I Read about that in my notes, I think.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah. Tell me about your book. In large part, we have to love and care for their brains and teach them. So there's a game. So I have a game. It's called Chloe's game for my daughter. And is this good for your brain or bad for it? And if I would say avocado, she'd go two thumbs up God's butter. If I said blueberries, she'd put her little hands on her hips and go, are they organic? Because non organic blueberries hold my more pesticides than almost any other fruit. I'm like, of course they're organic. She goes, God's candy. I said, talking back to your redheaded mother. She goes, oh, very bad. Too much stress.

[Kendall Jenner]

I'm gonna make my kids play that game.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yes. And you can still call it Chloe's game.

[Kendall Jenner]

You can see.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Have you heard of EMDR before? I haven't, so I'd love it. I first learned about it in the early 90s. But a lot of people, when they've had trauma, they do everything they can to not think about it, right? To block it out. And when they get triggered, they drink or they smoke pot or do whatever. With emdrs, you actually bring it up and they have your eyes going back and forth, and it begins to integrate the trauma, connect it to other things in the past, and then it dissipates. Oh, wow, it's so cool.

[Kendall Jenner]

But is it like therapy that, you know, sometimes I don't know if you've done therapy, but sometimes you will do therapy. And you talk about, I've done therapy.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

For a long time, and, you know, sometimes that's what I do.

[Kendall Jenner]

You'll do like, you'll talk about your traumas, and then you're more upset about everything.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So this does the opposite.

[Kendall Jenner]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Is you bring it up and then it dissipates.

[Kendall Jenner]

I love that.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And I always want my patients going into the pain rather than blocking the pain, because when you suppress the pain with alcohol, it always comes back and rebounds it. When you go through it, you begin to understand it and process it. So I did a study on emdr, on police officers who all left work after they were involved in shootings. So they had emotional trauma, and average of eight sessions, they all went back to work, and it calmed down the diamond in their brain. And for therapy, my favorite things to do. One, love your brain. Two, stop believing every stupid thing you think. So I have a children's book called Captain Snout and the Superpower Questions. It's about killing the ants. ANTS stands for automatic negative thoughts. Thoughts that come into your mind automatically and ruin your day. And I was 28 years old and my psychiatric resident residency when my one of my professors said, you have to teach your patients not to believe every stupid thing they think. I'm 28 years old, right? I'm a double in my residency, finished medical school. I'm really well educated. No one had ever told me that before. I believed every stupid thing I thought. So here's the exercise. Whenever you feel sad or mad or nervous. Nervous or out of control, write down what you're thinking and then ask yourself, is it true? Can I absolutely know that's true? How does that thought make me feel? Terrible. How would I feel without the thought? So much happier. And then you take the original thought and you turn it to the opposite and you ask yourself if the opposite of the thought is bothering me is true. This is so cool. It's so powerful. And so basically I teach all my patients one page miracle. What do you want? Then we have to kill the ants. The automatic negative thoughts. And then whatever trauma is there, we use things like EMDR to help them get rid of it. With a healthy brain.

[Kendall Jenner]

Yes. What I love something you said, and I didn't think of it like this, is that your brain is one thing and your mind is another thing. And I don't think a lot of people consider those to be two different entities, but they are. Can you talk about that a little bit?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, your brain, the moment by moment physical function of your brain creates your mind. And if your brain's not right, your mind's not right. But if your brain is healthy, you still have to program your mind and it's programmed by what you allow it to do. And if you're not really thinking about it and spending three hours on social media. TikTok's programming your mind.

[Kendall Jenner]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Or Facebook is programming your mind. So you want to be very careful because their goal is, is money. So they want mind share because then they can get into your wallet and it's not necessarily good for you.

[Kendall Jenner]

No. What I something I did last night, which is something that you do, is well, I pray every night with my kids and then I do my own adult prayers for me every. That's a non negotiable every single night. But something that I implemented last night, and it's because of you was the recounting the micro happies. I don't know what you call it, but the, the good things that happened to me that day from, but from the smallest of the small. And I had a great day yesterday, but I think because I was recounting the small, like, the littlest thing, I was like, no, I loved just getting my coffee first. Because in the morning I wake up and I wake up at five at the latest, and I'll have my alone time, and I do my Bible verse, and then I sit by myself and have my coffee and reflect on that, and then I start my day. I like to set the tone for my day, but I don't think I realized how happy that makes me until I did what you suggested, which is just recount your day and what are the little things that make you happy. And it was such a beautiful lesson. And I was smiling while I was talking, recounting my day. And I just wanted to say thank you for that because it's such a minor thing, but it's the biggest.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Simple, right?

[Kendall Jenner]

It's so simple.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But if you do it on a regular basis. So every night I go to bed and I say a prayer, and then I go. What went well today?

[Kendall Jenner]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And I start at the beginning of my day, and I'm structured hour by hour. What did I like about the day? And the bad stuff shows up, and I'm like, no, not now. Later. And I go back to what went well. People who do that for just three weeks notice a significant increase in their level of happiness.

[Kendall Jenner]

Oh, my gosh. You are a vessel of knowledge and insight. And I'm just so grateful that you came and shared all this with me and my viewers and listeners. And I'm not kidding. I am going on spring break with my kids this weekend, but when I come back, I think I'm gonna make my first stop to come and see you and do another scan.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I love that.

[Kendall Jenner]

But, yes, I just wanted to say thank you. This was fascinating. And I will definitely see you in a few weeks when I'm back from.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I'm so honored. Thank you.

[Kendall Jenner]

Thank you, Doctor. Amen.