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- [00:00]
Ashley Flowers
Ashley Flowers.
- [00:02]
Crime Junkie Host
I am jazzed to talk a little bit of true crime.
- [00:04]
Ashley Flowers
Kim and I, we are obsessed. I don't know how healthy this is to be that obsessed.
- [00:09]
Crime Junkie Host
You want to put your tinfoil hat on? I say crime junkies are born, not made.
- [00:12]
Ashley Flowers
If I could build a moat, I would have a moat with alligators.
- [00:16]
Crime Junkie Host
Our brains, like, love a mystery. How is someone here one second gone the next? I don't think the story we've gotten is the real story at all.
- [00:23]
Ashley Flowers
No. In my gut, do I think she's alive? I do. This is insane that it's not getting
- [00:27]
Crime Junkie Host
any traction right now. I'm working on, like, the weirdest catfishing
- [00:31]
Ashley Flowers
story and today's dance, the fact that we're still catfishing. Do you think this ever turns into an unhealthy obsession?
- [00:37]
Crime Junkie Host
I wanted to find a way to give back. We're not just telling these stories. We're working with law enforcement. We're working with families.
- [00:42]
Ashley Flowers
Do you ever get afraid? Like, maybe I said too much?
- [00:44]
Crime Junkie Host
The dark shit happens in the shadows.
- [00:46]
Ashley Flowers
Yes, it does.
- [00:51]
Crime Junkie Host
This could go off the rails here.
- [00:53]
Ashley Flowers
Sort of. Fine with, too. Thank you for coming here today. I'm so excited to sit and talk to you.
- [01:02]
Crime Junkie Host
Thank you. I am jazzed to talk a little bit of true crime.
- [01:05]
Ashley Flowers
I am so excited. So I want you, if you can just tell the audience, how did you get into true crime?
- [01:13]
Crime Junkie Host
I say crime junkies are born, not made true. So I.
- [01:17]
Ashley Flowers
Very true.
- [01:18]
Crime Junkie Host
Like, there was never a moment or, like, a case. Like, I don't have a personal experience. My mom was a crime junkie, her mom before her.
- [01:26]
Ashley Flowers
So I feel generational.
- [01:28]
Crime Junkie Host
Seriously, I feel like I just, like, grew up in it. And, you know, it was when I was young with, like, we were reading Nancy Drew and then Agatha Christie. And then I feel like the first time I really, like, got into true crime as opposed to fiction is we were, me and my best friend Brit, who I do the show with, we were tabloid height when JonBenet happened. And for us to realize, like, oh, my gosh, this could happen, happen to someone our age that looks like us. And it was so big. And so that's when. That's when, like, this whole other world opened up. And I have just been obsessed ever since. I can't help it.
- [02:01]
Ashley Flowers
So my sister Kim and I, we are obsessed. And I don't know how healthy this is to be that obsessed. And I was so much more obsessed before I had my daughter. And I think then I feel like
- [02:13]
Crime Junkie Host
you've gone the other way.
- [02:14]
Ashley Flowers
So I Went the other way for a minute. I was like, I need a break. Or I was very choosy with the True Crime. I would watch. It could have nothing to do with kids. Yeah.
- [02:22]
Crime Junkie Host
So many moms tell us. They're like, if it's a kid episode, like, I can't listen.
- [02:25]
Ashley Flowers
Yep.
- [02:26]
Crime Junkie Host
Which, like, I. I totally get because I've got a daughter now. And I think that it.
- [02:31]
Ashley Flowers
Like, it doesn't it change? Don't you think your view of the world?
- [02:34]
Crime Junkie Host
I think, completely changes. But I keep telling everyone, I feel like I was actually pushed more towards listening. Like, it was definitely harder, but the same reason I listened to everything else. It's like, I can't protect her if I don't know what to protect her from.
- [02:47]
Ashley Flowers
Before, when I used to watch True Crime, there was not even a thought that any of this would happen to me.
- [02:52]
Crime Junkie Host
Really?
- [02:53]
Ashley Flowers
Never. I'm like, I will fuck all those people up. Everyone's going to find me. Like, I. It wasn't a thought. When you have kids, then you're like, okay, at least for me, the world is so dark. It's so scary. Everyone is so messed up. And I'm not gonna put myself in any of these situations. I'm gonna have all the security I can. Like the alarm systems, the shattering glass. Like, I have so many things that I don't think I had an alarm when. Before I had kids. Like, who knows?
- [03:22]
Crime Junkie Host
Is like, there's no way you didn't have an alarm.
- [03:24]
Ashley Flowers
I don't know. I'm probably exaggerating.
- [03:25]
Crime Junkie Host
You're on just like a different.
- [03:26]
Ashley Flowers
Like, I'm probably exaggerating, but the thought I put into things, it is Fort Knox. If I could build a moat, I would have a moat. With alligators and great whites. Absolutely.
- [03:36]
Crime Junkie Host
I keep telling people I want to recreate. Did you watch the Village, the M. Night Shyamalan movie?
- [03:42]
Ashley Flowers
No.
- [03:42]
Crime Junkie Host
Why has no one seen the Village?
- [03:44]
Ashley Flowers
Is this a horror movie?
- [03:45]
Crime Junkie Host
Yeah.
- [03:46]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. Cause he's horror. I don't do horror. Because I don't. I can do true crime. I don't want you to, like, scare me like a boo. I can do suspense.
- [03:54]
Crime Junkie Host
Okay. But you don't do a boo. Well, I'm gonna ruin M. Night Shyamalan for people. So spoiler alert.
- [03:58]
Ashley Flowers
Okay. Spoiler alert.
- [03:59]
Crime Junkie Host
They have this, like. It's set in, like, this, like, village, and there's this, like, monster that lives in the woods, already terrified. And you find out at the end there is no monster. It's like modern day that this, like, community came together to like, create a fake 1800s so that their kids could be safe. And I was like, I want to do that with the 90s.
- [04:17]
Ashley Flowers
I like that. Yes.
- [04:18]
Crime Junkie Host
Where it's just like, you get, like, a new CD and like, aim.
- [04:21]
Ashley Flowers
Yes.
- [04:21]
Crime Junkie Host
Very early on, like, that I'd be jazzed about.
- [04:24]
Ashley Flowers
This is nothing to do with true crime. But over the weekend, I just made a list. So my dad had a tradition that once a week we would watch a movie of his choosing.
- [04:34]
Crime Junkie Host
Okay.
- [04:34]
Ashley Flowers
And which I hated at the time. Obviously, I'm like, I'm not watching these old movies. But now people will reference the movies that he made me watch. I'm like, oh, I know that reference. So I made a list and I went. I googled, like, 90s movies.
- [04:49]
Crime Junkie Host
Yes.
- [04:49]
Ashley Flowers
Like now and then the Babysitters Club. There's so many great movies. I don't. Just went on a tangent, but I
- [04:55]
Crime Junkie Host
feel like I need your list because I grew up in, like. Oh, like deeply religious, like, borderline cult. And so, like, I missed, like, this whole era.
- [05:04]
Ashley Flowers
Stop. You couldn't watch those movies.
- [05:06]
Crime Junkie Host
No, I couldn't.
- [05:07]
Ashley Flowers
But you could be in a true crime.
- [05:09]
Crime Junkie Host
I couldn't. I couldn't watch Harry Potter. I like. I'm just watching Harry Potter for the first time with my daughter.
- [05:12]
Ashley Flowers
Oh, my. Well, that's a good experience.
- [05:14]
Crime Junkie Host
Oh, it's fantastic.
- [05:15]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. But you can watch true crime. Yeah. Okay.
- [05:18]
Crime Junkie Host
Yeah, makes sense.
- [05:19]
Ashley Flowers
Love it. Balance.
- [05:19]
Crime Junkie Host
Yeah. Okay.
- [05:20]
Ashley Flowers
No judgment. We listen and we don't judge. That's what I do.
- [05:24]
Crime Junkie Host
Oh, we're out now. I judge a lot.
- [05:25]
Ashley Flowers
Okay, so there wasn't one case that, like, turned you on to true crime. It was just. Was it more that so many things couldn't be solved or could be solved?
- [05:37]
Crime Junkie Host
I mean, I'm definitely drawn to unsolved case cases over solved ones. I mean, I think that there's like a. There's like two things that are, like, constantly drawing me to these. And I think in, like, the solved cases, it's. We have a saying, crime junkies that, like, we're not paranoid, were pro paranoid. Like, I wanted to look for all of the things that, like, if I were ever in this situation, what would I do? What led up to this? What do I look out for in a relationship? Like, what are the red flags? So in a lot of the solved cases, I feel like what we find is education, self like preservation. And then in the unsolved cases, I mean, I. My dream was to, like, be a detective. I'm like, sure, if, like, I can get the right case file If I can talk to the right person, like, surely I can solve the mystery. And I think our. Our. Our brains, like, love a mystery. I don't think it manifests as true crime, maybe for everyone, but, like, we look for order where there isn't any. And I mean, like, it's like missing person cases. I'm obsessed with. Like, how is someone here one second gone the next?
- [06:38]
Ashley Flowers
Nancy Guthrie? I mean, is that not heartbreaking? I don't know. I'm just like, are you. This is 2026. There is nothing. Like, we don't. That It's.
- [06:50]
Crime Junkie Host
I can't even believe that. But I'm also, like, very conspiratorial.
- [06:53]
Ashley Flowers
So, like, me too. I don't know if I know enough about this case, but, like, all the things I was reading about the brother in law and that kind of stuff, I'm like, ugh.
- [07:03]
Crime Junkie Host
We did a whole, like, episode in our fan club where I was like, you guys, there's, like, weird stuff happening in the background.
- [07:09]
Ashley Flowers
The ransom notes going to all the media outlets for free.
- [07:13]
Crime Junkie Host
I know.
- [07:14]
Ashley Flowers
How weird was that?
- [07:14]
Crime Junkie Host
I know, I know.
- [07:16]
Ashley Flowers
It's so much. And I just. I can't understand that in 2026, there's not. Like you said. That's what I don't believe, that there's not one piece of information. I just. They're not telling.
- [07:26]
Crime Junkie Host
They're not telling us. Which is, like, so common with law enforcement, right? As we work with so many families, like, we're not just telling these stories. We're working with law enforcement. We're working with families. And it is wild how they, like, are going through the most, like, traumatic experience of their life. There's no resolution. There's this person who they love who's out there in the world missing or murdered, and they. They're expected to just, like, you have to pay the bills, you have a contract. You have to go back to work. And the world just, like, keeps moving, even though yours has, like, completely stopped. And it's so odd.
- [07:54]
Ashley Flowers
It's also how people feel, like, the anger towards the world when someone passes away close to them and every, like, it's the acknowledgement that they're like, oh, the world just still. Everything still goes on. I'm like, it does. It sucks.
- [08:08]
Crime Junkie Host
Yeah.
- [08:08]
Ashley Flowers
But, yeah, the more.
- [08:09]
Crime Junkie Host
It's the strangest feeling.
- [08:09]
Ashley Flowers
The strangest feeling. Speaking of that, you are gravitating more towards cold cases. You've actually, yourself solved over 20 cold cases.
- [08:20]
Crime Junkie Host
Not because I'm like, out there, boots on the ground, but our nonprofit has so that's incredible. Thanks. We so much of, like, when I got into this, I wanted to find a way to give back. So even as a consumer of true crime, I always felt weird taking this as entertainment when I'm like, these are the. This is the worst time in a family's life. So even before I ever created this content, I was volunteering, like, with my local Crime Stoppers, like, how do I just give back in a small way? And then as I created content, it was, you know, bigger ways and bigger ways. And we do. We have the team of amazing investigative journalists, and we're doing amazing work. And some of the work that we're doing on these cases is actually moving them forward. But I also kept finding over and over that I'd get to these agencies, and they're like, yeah, we have suspect DNA in this murder. We just, like, can't. We don't have the funds to test it.
- [09:10]
Ashley Flowers
Isn't that crazy?
- [09:11]
Crime Junkie Host
And I'm like, we're talking, like, $5,000 between, like, getting a murderer off the streets or not. And so we. We started a nonprofit called Season of Justice. And that nonprofit has gone on. I think they've now awarded, like, $2 million in grants that have gone to, like, you know, 250, 300 different cases. And, you know, it takes a long time sometimes, you know, you hit a dead end. But we've. They've solved a ton of cold cases through that organization, and it's. It's. It's been really amazing to see. And I think that a lot of people are looking at that and changing the way that they think about, like, true crime content, because it can feel everyone. I feel like it gets a bad rap that it's just, like, this exploitative, voyeuristic thing. And I don't think it has to be.
- [09:56]
Ashley Flowers
No. And I also. What a wonderful legacy that you get to leave behind. I know you said you're not the one, like, boots hitting the ground, but you're the one making it all happen and making that a possible. And that for 20 families or more than 20, for them to have that closure, it's so, so beautiful. Do you have one case that's a cold case that, like, you wish you can solve, but, like, have you tried that hasn't been able to be solved? Like JonBenet, for example, are you like, there's just no fucking way this still isn't solved yet.
- [10:31]
Crime Junkie Host
It is weird, isn't it? It is weird. I am obsessed with the JonBenet case. I mean, again, that's like, since I was little, I followed it.
- [10:38]
Ashley Flowers
I feel like Kim and I are, too. That and the Maddie.
- [10:42]
Crime Junkie Host
Oh, Madeline McCann.
- [10:43]
Ashley Flowers
Yes.
- [10:44]
Crime Junkie Host
Portugal. Yep. Dominey is one. I mean, I just. I. In the last, like, year, year and a half, I, like, I sat down with her dad. I've done, like, a ton. I continue to get people who write into me or talk to me who. Who have information on that, and that's something that I think I'll constantly follow, like, throughout my career.
- [10:59]
Ashley Flowers
Right.
- [11:00]
Crime Junkie Host
I don't think there's just, like, one case that everyone always asks, like, what's the one? Like, you can solve the one. And it's. To me, it's like, whatever one. All of them. But whatever one I'm, like, the deepest into at the moment. And we just did this. A couple of episodes. This series out of Arizona that hasn't gotten, I don't think, a ton of, like, mainstream media. I think they're like, to the area people kind of know about this case. But there was this dad who was on FaceTime with his kids at the office, and all of a sudden, they hear this, like, commotion. They hear this, like, bang. And he's like, it's dark. And they go running to their mom, and they end up finding out that he was shot while he was on FaceTime with them. And the police get to his office, and it's just him and his business partner in the office, and he is shot execution style. His business partner is fine. Just, like, a little bump on the noggin. And they say, two masked men. And there's video of two masked men coming in and shooting him. And. And the weird part is, a couple of days after he is killed, this business partner comes to his wife, Alicia, and he's like, hey, I need you to sign, you know, the insurance policies for your family. Like, he owned half the business. You'll get $500,000. And she's like, listen, I don't. Right. Let me bury my husband first. Right? Like, give me a beat, and then I'll come back to you. And so she goes in her husband's email. She's, like, looking. She didn't know really a lot about the insurance policies. And she's already, like, not loving Dave. Like, there's been some, like, disputes. And she finds that there is $8 million of life insurance taken out on her husband for their H Vac company.
- [12:40]
Ashley Flowers
Okay, well, and Rhodes Point, too.
- [12:43]
Crime Junkie Host
She gets a lawyer, and they're like, hey, let's make sure we have the paperwork in order. We're Going to make sure the company split 50, 50 that you get half of that. They get everything in order. They go to sign the paperwork, and the insurance company is like, what do you mean? You already signed the paperwork. We have your signature. The money has been paid out to his business partner, Dave Sweetman.
- [12:59]
Ashley Flowers
No.
- [13:01]
Crime Junkie Host
So she has to fight tooth and nail to get some kind of settlement that they decide on, and his. His case is unsolved.
- [13:10]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. Those things just don't make sense. No, they wrap my brain because I'm like, what are we talking about? I am a civilian. And I'm like, hello, my. Yes, I'm pointing fingers, but it's obvious.
- [13:23]
Crime Junkie Host
So we looked into Dave. This. His business partner, Dave Sweetman, and we're like, who is this guy? Like, as part of the episode. And weirdly, nowhere in Nick's case file does this show up. But we found out that Dave Sweetman had a wife named Laura Sweetman, who seven years before Nick Cordova died. Laura Sweetman dies mysteriously in her home after she had filed for divorce from him. And her case was ruled undetermined manner and cause of death. There was not even a newspaper article about this woman's death.
- [13:57]
Ashley Flowers
That happens all the time.
- [13:58]
Crime Junkie Host
It's unbelievable.
- [13:59]
Ashley Flowers
All the time.
- [14:00]
Crime Junkie Host
So those are the ones that I'm, like, very deep into. We just did, like, three parts on Nick Cordova's case, Laura Sweetman's case, and then we just got someone in the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office in Arizona has to be a fan because they released to us all this audio from a domestic violence incident.
- [14:15]
Ashley Flowers
No.
- [14:16]
Crime Junkie Host
So then we dropped all of the audio in our feedback. And so I'm like. I feel like I'm, like, hot on the trail. We're, like, getting, like, active tips on this.
- [14:22]
Ashley Flowers
Oh, I love it.
- [14:22]
Crime Junkie Host
Normally the stuff we do is, like, a lot older. I'm like. I feel like this is, like, happening in real time. So kind of wild.
- [14:28]
Ashley Flowers
I mean, I'm not, like, smiling. I'm happy. I'm like, it's just so exciting that potentially you'll be able to help this family, because that is.
- [14:35]
Crime Junkie Host
I'm excited for Alicia. I'm excited for Laura's family because, like, she can't get police to do anything. Like, Laura's case has never been investigated really, like, since 2013.
- [14:45]
Ashley Flowers
Well, it's like that. I think they were in Arizona, too.
- [14:48]
Crime Junkie Host
Lori Valo.
- [14:49]
Ashley Flowers
Yes. Oh, my God. Lori Valo. And she was hiding in Hawaii, her and her new husband. But the brother was killing everyone.
- [14:57]
Crime Junkie Host
That's bananas. There's some wild.
- [14:59]
Ashley Flowers
But no one like three of the men in her life were dead. Three of his wives were dead or whatever, the women in his life. Then for the brother that was doing all the murders to die of a heart attack randomly. Right?
- [15:11]
Crime Junkie Host
Yeah.
- [15:11]
Ashley Flowers
Wink, wink. What are we talking about? The poor kids. It's horrible. You guys know I recently got a puppy, Peppermint. And I'm not even going to pretend I'm normal about it. I fully accept that I've become one of those dog parents, the kind who takes way too many photos, talks to their dog like they're a person, and somehow she ends up having a better daily routine than I do. Peppermint already has multiple beds around the house, a rotation of toys, and honestly, it's. I catch myself checking on her like she's a toddler. But if you're a dog parent, I feel like you get it. They really do become a part of the family. And if anyone understands that level of obsession, it's Ollie. They're just as obsessed with your dog as you are. Ollie makes fresh food for dogs that's developed by real chefs and backed by vet nutritionists. So you know your pup is getting high quality meals made with ingredients you can feel good about. And what I love is that everything is personalized to your dog. When you start. They create a plan based on your dog's needs and portion the meals just for you. It even comes with a puptainer and a scoop, so feeding them is super easy. But Ollie doesn't just stop at food. Through their app, you can actually check in on your dog's health. With real vets, you upload a picture and their team can check things like your dog's weight, digestion, teeth and coat. It's honestly such a great way to keep an eye on how your pup is doing. Get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to ollie.com wonderland, tell them all about your dog and use Code Wonderland to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus, they offer an obsession guarantee. If you're not completely obsessed, you'll get your money back. That's o l l I-e.com Wonderland and enter code Wonderland to get 60% off your first box. Ollie, Feed the obsession.
- [17:13]
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- [18:49]
Crime Junkie Host
Sometimes I'm just like, there'll be a case where I'm like, everything's there. How are we, like, even, like, not
- [18:55]
Ashley Flowers
paying attention to it?
- [18:56]
Crime Junkie Host
And then. And then you've got, like, I know you, your sister have worked with, like, a ton of, like, wrongful convictions. And then I'm like, but you can convict someone on, like, absolutely nothing.
- [19:03]
Ashley Flowers
I think about that all the time.
- [19:04]
Crime Junkie Host
Like, it really just. It shows you just kind of how broke. Not bro. Well, broken the justice system is, but just how, like, it's. It differs from, like, state to state, jurisdiction to jurisdiction, judge to judge.
- [19:16]
Ashley Flowers
Yes.
- [19:17]
Crime Junkie Host
Where? And I think that's the thing that has bummed me out the most. People are like, how do you live in this content all the time? And I'm like, it's not. Some people are built for it. But I was like, it's not the content that depresses me. I was like, there's always gonna be bad people out there doing bad things. The thing that has really gotten to me, doing this for Eight and a half years is like, oh, I actually used to believe that there was a system in place that would right the wrongs and catch the bad guys and fix the things. And I just don't know that I believe in that system anymore.
- [19:45]
Ashley Flowers
And that's something that I relate to. Cause doing prison reform stuff with Kim, I mean, it's Kim's ship and she's driving it, but I've been apart with her on so many journeys, but realizing that it's not always about getting the right person. They just want to pin it on someone.
- [20:02]
Crime Junkie Host
It's about getting a win.
- [20:03]
Ashley Flowers
Yes. And that's so devastating because I'm like, wait, so you don't care that the killer or burglar, whoever, is still out there? You just want to make your town feel safe by saying that they got the guy?
- [20:14]
Crime Junkie Host
It's unbelievable.
- [20:15]
Ashley Flowers
It's really unbelievable. And like you said about even the DNA testing, I've watched, like, Law and Order and all this stuff, and it's like, you see these shows, they move in this fast pace episode, beginning, middle, end. It takes months, if not years, if not at all, to get the DNA testing. And like, in my head, I'm like, what do you mean? Just test them and in 48 hours, we're going to get the results back.
- [20:36]
Crime Junkie Host
Right.
- [20:36]
Ashley Flowers
It's crazy.
- [20:37]
Crime Junkie Host
There's a missing persons case out of New Mexico. Mexico right now, Melissa Cassias, Day by day. So I'm like, you could sway me. Someone did something to her. She walked away. There's so many weird elements to this case, but there is this, like, spot of blood that's found in her house that people were suspicious of. They do, like, the presumptive testing that says, yes, this is blood, but we don't know if it's hers. We don't know what it is. We have to send it off for testing. She went missing in June of 2025.
- [21:02]
Ashley Flowers
Okay.
- [21:03]
Crime Junkie Host
It is almost a year now, and they still don't have the results back from that.
- [21:06]
Ashley Flowers
So why. How like that? I. I don't know.
- [21:10]
Crime Junkie Host
I don't know.
- [21:11]
Ashley Flowers
I am. Okay. I'm like, so what. What are you hiding? Like, who's involved? I'm very. I love a conspiracy.
- [21:18]
Crime Junkie Host
I'm like, yeah, I'm. I will feed into that.
- [21:20]
Ashley Flowers
Do you have any thoughts on that Amy Bradley case?
- [21:22]
Crime Junkie Host
I really think she's still alive.
- [21:24]
Ashley Flowers
I do, too.
- [21:25]
Crime Junkie Host
It's so funny. I. Right before it came out on Netflix, because I've been following that case for, like, years and years, but obviously so many people like really got invested when Netflix did their thing. And I had a meeting at Netflix and I was kind of in the room with who. Who were in charge of like all their true crime stuff and who were making it. And they were like fighting in the room, like, they all had different theories and some people were like hardcore fighting that, like, she just fell overboard. And I was like, that. That's like the only thing I don't believe. Don't believe happened. Correct. I think she. Do you think the picture was her?
- [21:56]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah, I do, I do.
- [21:58]
Crime Junkie Host
I do too.
- [21:59]
Ashley Flowers
I mean, when they. Especially when they do the comparisons and like, it's with AI technology too. I mean, I do it just like
- [22:07]
Crime Junkie Host
it was so the only thing I was like, it was so brazen. Like, you didn't think that. That this would become a big story. I mean, but I guess they got away with it so.
- [22:16]
Ashley Flowers
Well, not even that. Where my conflict is with that. So let's say she is alive and I want her to be, but now we've publicly admitted where they think she is and what they think she's doing. And so I don't think that's gonna go over too well for. Cause I'm assuming it if the kidnappers, abductors, whoever have her, they might not be watching it. Someone they know is watching it and saying, hey, they're on your tail. They're going to move her around. So that's the only thing where I feel bad that it got so big in public. I think that everyone's intentions were in the right place, but I don't think people thought that through all the way.
- [22:52]
Crime Junkie Host
Do you think that they were actually closing in, though? Because I think that's the. That's the balance or the hard part where I'm always like, yeah, but it's been. You know, we deal with cases where I'm like, okay, but it's been 30 years, 40 years. Like you had all this time to do something if you haven't done it now.
- [23:06]
Ashley Flowers
Well, I.
- [23:07]
Crime Junkie Host
The only thing we haven't tried, I think.
- [23:09]
Ashley Flowers
True, I get that. But also knowing, like every holiday she would go to the website and they were able to find the IP address. And not that they knew the exact location, but they knew proximity and that what the island isn't like this massive island. I'm like, just walk around there.
- [23:25]
Crime Junkie Host
Like, honestly, if you like, would have put out a bulletin, I think you could have gotten the crime junkies to do. We would have all gone on like a week vacation to like, find Amy Bradley. Crime junkie trip.
- [23:33]
Ashley Flowers
I Think you guys should still try to do that.
- [23:35]
Crime Junkie Host
I really love it.
- [23:36]
Ashley Flowers
You should. So I don't know, but in my gut, do I think she's alive? I do.
- [23:41]
Crime Junkie Host
I do, too.
- [23:41]
Ashley Flowers
My sister and I, we spoke to the family after the documentary, and they. They definitely think she's still alive and have high hopes and. Yeah.
- [23:50]
Crime Junkie Host
And I. You know, most families do, but I. This is one where I'm like, Yeah, I think they're, like, their hopes are in the right place. I think that. That she's out there still. I think that there's a good chance of finding her. It's just like, you know, who is she now? Yeah. All these years later.
- [24:02]
Ashley Flowers
I agree with that.
- [24:03]
Crime Junkie Host
But I think there's an Amy to find for sure.
- [24:05]
Ashley Flowers
You said you grew up religious, where it was almost like cult. Like, did that impact your, I'm going to say, obsession with true crime? Like, do you think that pushed you in that direction at all? Did it filter you at all?
- [24:20]
Crime Junkie Host
I kind of wonder. Not because of, like, the elements of, like, growing up in there, but to your point of, like, you could watch Harry Potter, but you could watch this. It was like. It was that, like, that outlet of, like, while everyone else is getting to listen to, like, Britney Spears and, like, do all this stuff that I couldn't do. I got true crime. And so, like, I went all in on, like, the one secular thing I could have.
- [24:41]
Ashley Flowers
Cause it's all you could have. So I get that. Is your mom still into true crime?
- [24:46]
Crime Junkie Host
Oh, yeah.
- [24:47]
Ashley Flowers
Okay.
- [24:47]
Crime Junkie Host
My mom's still a big crime junkie.
- [24:49]
Ashley Flowers
I love that, though. Like, my mom, she doesn't really. Oh, she does. She likes Dateline every Friday. That's her thing. But she won't get as, like, knee deep as, like, Kim and I will. We'll spiral into these dark holes of.
- [25:02]
Crime Junkie Host
Well, because the Dateline is good, I think, for, like, the casual viewer. Because Dateline usually comes in, like, a neat package. Like, there's. There's an end. You know who did it. You can. You don't wanna. You don't spiral so much. Whereas, like, I think that's the difference. Being a crime junkie is like, I want to. I wanna argue with someone about the case. I wanna talk theories. I wanna. I wanna spiral. So there's the Dateline audience and then there's crime junkies. And we do overlap every once in a while.
- [25:25]
Ashley Flowers
I do love an argument over a case of any sort for people that are maybe too obsessed with crime. Like, do you think. I know. You're like, what does that Mean, I
- [25:37]
Crime Junkie Host
literally was like, who.
- [25:38]
Ashley Flowers
Who's too obsessed?
- [25:39]
Crime Junkie Host
Yeah.
- [25:40]
Ashley Flowers
But do you think this ever turns into an unh where people become paranoid at all, like, hours of the day as opposed to being, like, vigilant and using these tools for them?
- [25:51]
Crime Junkie Host
I think it can. I mean, I've had people be like, I had to stop listening for a little while because it was becoming all consuming. Yes. Some people are, like, just built where they can, like, hand a little more. I think people can come in and come out. And I also think it's why, like, we're really intentional about doing, like, different types of episodes because there are so many important, like, lessons or educational pieces that I want people to hear. We're about to do an episode about AI kidnappings, which. The scams, which I don't know if
- [26:19]
Ashley Flowers
you've, like, heard of, but I. I've heard of some. I don't know if this is what you're talking about, but where, like, either people are pretending to be someone else through AI, like, changing voices, all of that stuff.
- [26:31]
Crime Junkie Host
There was a woman who was with her daughter at a dance class, and her husband, her other daughter were, like, on a ski vacation. She's, like, sitting in the car waiting for her, and she gets this phone call, and it's her daughter on the ph freaking out and is like, like, mom, I did something bad. I'm so sorry. She's crying, crying, crying, like, heaving. And she's like, I know my daughter's cry. And this guy gets on the phone and is like, you have to bring this money to X, Y, and Z location. And as she's got, like, people around her trying to figure out what's going on, one of them calls her husband, and he's like, what are you talking about? I'm with my. I'm with our daughter right now. And this is becoming a huge new scam where they're taking a couple of bites from people's social media where they're talking, or my podcast where I'm talking all day every day and creating voice models to extort people for kidnapping.
- [27:16]
Ashley Flowers
So there are, like, I have heard about this.
- [27:18]
Crime Junkie Host
Different types of cases. So I do think that some people can get really paranoid, but I hope they, like, keep coming back. Right now, I'm working on, like, the weirdest catfishing story I've ever encountered still
- [27:29]
Ashley Flowers
in today's day and age. The fact that we're still catfishing is
- [27:32]
Crime Junkie Host
crazy, but I need to hear this. It's kind of wild. Okay, so this one is 2010, so it's I know it's hard for people to remember, but this is like, we've got dating websites, but no one's swiping. So this is website time 2010. And this woman named Anna Akbari. She's a PhD. She's beautiful, she's smart, she's engaging, she is online dating. And she meets this guy named Ethan. And things are like, you know, online dating. Everyone's like, yo, what's up? Let's meet. The conversations are just like, duds.
- [28:04]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah.
- [28:04]
Crime Junkie Host
And she meets Ethan, who went to MIT and who wants to talk about politics and culture and movies, and they. It's just like, the most amazing conversation she's ever had. And she's up all hours of the night. I mean, like, I think 42, 72 hours straight, just, like, talking to him. And it is this, like, weird chain of events where at first they can't meet because she is, like, going on a vacation. And then there's, like, this wild snowstorm. They're in New York City, and it's just, like, thing after thing, and some of it is on her. So she's, like, not even suspicious at first, but then she starts, okay, we've. We've gotta. We've gotta meet in person at some point. And, you know, there's excuse after excuse. And two months in, she's, like, getting really, like, okay, something is up here. And Ethan all of a sudden has cancer. And it's like the telltale signs, like, anyone who's watched Catfish, like, you know, and then he gets manipulative, is turning it on her. Why? Like, why can't you just be supportive? And she's like, let me come back, be there and be supportive with you. He's like, no, I don't want you to see me like this. And so she. She is so suspicious two months in that she starts like, like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna figure out who Ethan is and the school he said that he went to for high school, mit. She's like, I actually know someone who went to both. And she reaches out to this guy, and the guy's like, you know, it's so weird. Someone else reached out to me to ask about this guy.
- [29:28]
Ashley Flowers
Oh, that's weird.
- [29:29]
Crime Junkie Host
Mm. So she goes to this other woman. Turns out this woman has the same interaction with Ithan and has been, like, trying to meet up for even longer, but they live out of state, and they kind of, like, team up, and they together realize that there was, like, this third woman who Ethan would always kind of use against them. His ex. His ex from, like, London or something. British. They call her British Anna. They're like, maybe she's actually real. And so they find her. She has been in this, like, years. Long relationship with Ethan. Never met. And it is like. It's not just that he won't meet them. It's like, the amount of manipulation and control. And it's not. He never asks for money. He just, like, takes all their time, all their attention. I mean, I don't know how he was doing this three times, because the messages are all day, every day. But they come together. And this is where it's like, a catfish story. Like, I've never heard, because, like, I've heard every catfish story. And they find out that Ethan is this woman named Emily Slutsky. Like, you couldn't make this. You couldn't make it up. It's her real name. You couldn't make it up.
- [30:28]
Ashley Flowers
Stop. Well, I wouldn't need to catfish, too, if that was my name.
- [30:32]
Crime Junkie Host
She. Well, this. So that's the crazy part, right? Anytime I hear about catfish catfishing, they're like these, like, sad, lonely people who just, like, wish they had a different life. Okay, so she really went to mit.
- [30:42]
Ashley Flowers
Oh, wow.
- [30:42]
Crime Junkie Host
She is now the she.
- [30:44]
Ashley Flowers
Okay.
- [30:45]
Crime Junkie Host
She's the assistant medical director over women's health. Cause she's an obgyn.
- [30:51]
Ashley Flowers
And how does she have time for this?
- [30:53]
Crime Junkie Host
Who's actively, like, taking care of women all day, every day? They have reported her to her medical school, to the chairman at their hospital, and everyone's like, no. Because they've saved every message, and it's like. It's twisted.
- [31:07]
Ashley Flowers
I don't know.
- [31:07]
Crime Junkie Host
Like, it's like a game for her.
- [31:09]
Ashley Flowers
How is she doing the voice?
- [31:11]
Crime Junkie Host
Well, before she wasn't, she wouldn't get on the phone, or she would, like, they would talk to Ethan's sister, who would be her.
- [31:16]
Ashley Flowers
Got it.
- [31:17]
Crime Junkie Host
And she swears she's not doing it anymore. But I'm like. With AI being what it is now,
- [31:21]
Ashley Flowers
we just talked about AI, but also the addiction. This is.
- [31:24]
Crime Junkie Host
And this was all consuming. And, like, I think all of us, all of me. I mean, now I'm so invested. I've been. I've been working with Ana Bari, so she wrote a whole book about this called There is no Ethan. I bought the rights to it because I'm, like, deeply obsessed.
- [31:35]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah.
- [31:35]
Crime Junkie Host
And I've got our investigative team looking into where Emily went to high school. Like, how this is, like, manifesting. Is she still doing this?
- [31:44]
Ashley Flowers
Is.
- [31:45]
Crime Junkie Host
Do her patients know this?
- [31:46]
Ashley Flowers
Right?
- [31:47]
Crime Junkie Host
Like, you're Gonna go see someone to do your pap smear or like, deliver your baby?
- [31:51]
Ashley Flowers
No. You're fucking unwell. Yes. You should not be doing that.
- [31:55]
Crime Junkie Host
Wild.
- [31:56]
Ashley Flowers
That is crazy.
- [31:57]
Crime Junkie Host
So she, after the book came out, she went by her married name, Emily Morantz.
- [32:02]
Ashley Flowers
Smart in general, but.
- [32:04]
Crime Junkie Host
Well, maybe she's gonna change it again.
- [32:05]
Ashley Flowers
I don't know. Right?
- [32:06]
Crime Junkie Host
These weren't like. These were like really brilliant, smart women, successful women that Ethan, that Emily was targeting. And I mean, like, what I love about the story too is like, it, it can be anyone. It's not like you don't, like, you're not a sad person if you fall for something like this, this happens. And it is like the people. I mean, I swear there's like, mind games. Like the way they talk about, like, mind control and keeping you up and sleep deprivation and.
- [32:32]
Ashley Flowers
Oh, for sure.
- [32:33]
Crime Junkie Host
I think it can happen to anyone. And I know people get like, oh, how? How does it happen? And it's just you, you also believe what you want to believe, right? Like them.
- [32:40]
Ashley Flowers
And they're getting.
- [32:41]
Crime Junkie Host
It's hard out there and they're getting
- [32:42]
Ashley Flowers
these people at very vulnerable times. They really are.
- [32:46]
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- [34:00]
Ashley Flowers
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- [38:04]
Crime Junkie Host
I mean, we. We have crime junkie life rules that have, like, come up over the course of eight. Life rules? Yeah, life rules. And some of them are like, I mean, like, basic ones that it's not a thing to do, but it's like, you never know anyone ever. Like, and it's that idea that you don't know what happens behind closed doors. You don't know how people are going to behave when they feel cornered or in a bad situation. This idea that it can't happen here or happen to me. Most crime happens by someone who, you know, like, it's not. It's not that random serial killer that we're all the most afraid of. It's like, people who are in your life. We talk a lot about, like, you know, like, don't stay in certain places. Avoid, like, certain areas. We've got, like, if you're ever in a situation, never take a polygraph, always get a lawyer. I don't care if you think it makes you look guilty. It will be the thing that keeps you out of prison. So we've got our, like, crime junkie life rules.
- [38:54]
Ashley Flowers
And we also noted, we also created
- [38:56]
Crime Junkie Host
our, like, if I go missing folder because, you know, we realized how little sometimes police will push or sometimes they even know. And so it's literally like this file that we've gotten. People who've reached out and be like, this actually, like, saved my loved one. It's just like a list of, like, if I go missing, these are the things to do. And we're working on more and more resources, like, that because I found so many families, nobody prepares to be a true crime episode.
- [39:23]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah.
- [39:23]
Crime Junkie Host
And so many families. You hope and pray that law enforcement are going to take care of you. But like I said, we're finding more and more that's not the case. And people are having to be their own investigator, their own advocate. And so we're trying more and more to create resources to be like, I'm in this impossible situation. What do I do?
- [39:38]
Ashley Flowers
And where can you find those resources?
- [39:40]
Crime Junkie Host
So right now, the if I go missing folder is on our website, crimejunkie.com and we're going to be building out an entire resources tab coming soon with those. Like, how do I file a foia? How do I get records? What do I need to ask for that I think is gonna be really helpful for families?
- [39:54]
Ashley Flowers
What case are you, besides the Arizona one that you're the most embedded in right now?
- [40:00]
Crime Junkie Host
I think it's this Melissa Casillas.
- [40:01]
Ashley Flowers
1.
- [40:02]
Crime Junkie Host
This woman who went missing last year. In 2025, she left work, or she dropped her husband off at work. They work, like, an hour and 15 minutes away at Los Alamos National Laboratory. And she works in a different building than him. She normally drops him off and then goes to her building, but she drops him off, and she drove home for some reason, and she told her daughter that she forgot her work badge. She was just gonna work from home. But we know that's not true because she used her work badge to, like, get in to drop him off.
- [40:30]
Ashley Flowers
Ooh.
- [40:30]
Crime Junkie Host
And she's seen dropping her sandwich off that afternoon at her daughter's work. So she's, like, alone. She's fine. She's okay. But then she just stops responding to messages. And so her daughter comes home, her husband comes home from work, and they find her keys, her purse, her wallet, and both of her old phone and her new phone factory wiped. And, like, her icloud account has been wiped.
- [40:57]
Ashley Flowers
That is really hard to do.
- [40:59]
Crime Junkie Host
It is.
- [41:00]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah.
- [41:00]
Crime Junkie Host
That is what I hear.
- [41:01]
Ashley Flowers
That's really hard to do.
- [41:02]
Crime Junkie Host
That's what the agent told us.
- [41:04]
Ashley Flowers
Even if you think you've wiped it.
- [41:06]
Crime Junkie Host
Wait, have you wiped your icloud before?
- [41:08]
Ashley Flowers
No.
- [41:08]
Crime Junkie Host
Okay. No. You spoke with an authority that made
- [41:11]
Ashley Flowers
me think that we've been like, how does this still exist? And they're like, no matter how many times you think you delete something, like, it's really never gone.
- [41:19]
Crime Junkie Host
Yes.
- [41:20]
Ashley Flowers
And so for something to be factory wiped, like, even. I mean, people do, like, resets on phones all the time.
- [41:26]
Crime Junkie Host
That's easy.
- [41:26]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah.
- [41:27]
Crime Junkie Host
The icloud reset is Strangely hard, but, like, constraints. And so for a long time, her. Her husband, like, truly does and says all the weirdest things to where it's easy to go with, like, the old true crime trope of, like, husband did it.
- [41:41]
Ashley Flowers
Right.
- [41:42]
Crime Junkie Host
But then they find video footage of her walking alone when we know he's at work, her daughter's at work, and she's walking along the highway by herself with a backpack.
- [41:53]
Ashley Flowers
On the highway.
- [41:54]
Crime Junkie Host
Yeah, like, which is, like, near their home and never to be seen again.
- [41:58]
Ashley Flowers
That's so weird.
- [42:00]
Crime Junkie Host
So did she.
- [42:00]
Ashley Flowers
Did she look out of it?
- [42:02]
Crime Junkie Host
Nope. She was, like, walking just, like, purposefully.
- [42:05]
Ashley Flowers
Okay.
- [42:06]
Crime Junkie Host
Heading east to. We don't know where. There was, like, a sighting of someone that saw a blue truck near her. And then when they looked back, her and the truck were gone. So they don't see her going to the truck. But it's kind of like the insinuation. And everyone wonders, like, did she walk away? Did she get. Did something happen to her? Was she just on a walk and then something happen to her? Did. Did someone plan something? She. Recently there was an article that came out that is maybe connecting her to all those, like, I don't know if you've gotten served this. The, like, missing murdered scientists.
- [42:39]
Ashley Flowers
Yes, the 11.
- [42:40]
Crime Junkie Host
So she worked at Los Alamos National Laboratory? No, she was a administrative assistant.
- [42:46]
Ashley Flowers
When people do stuff with, like, Big Pharma, those people go missing. I understand. Because you're going to interfere with Big Pharma. A trillion dollar industry. Cool. Isn't this helping our government and everything?
- [43:00]
Crime Junkie Host
But I don't think it's our government that's doing it.
- [43:02]
Ashley Flowers
No, I don't either for this instance. Because what these scientists are doing is so helpful for our government and for us, from what I understand.
- [43:10]
Crime Junkie Host
Yeah.
- [43:11]
Ashley Flowers
So who is doing this? I know if it was.
- [43:14]
Crime Junkie Host
I don't know.
- [43:15]
Ashley Flowers
Right.
- [43:15]
Crime Junkie Host
But I'm not the one with all the secrets. But I don't know. It's like, to me, it's like big corporation.
- [43:23]
Ashley Flowers
It's insane.
- [43:24]
Crime Junkie Host
It's also getting the point where it's, like, weird now. Right? Like, 11 people is like, why isn't our government more interested in this? Why are we, like, just like us fringe people on the Internet sounding like weirdos?
- [43:37]
Ashley Flowers
It was bizarre that, like, not one acknowledgment of this.
- [43:40]
Crime Junkie Host
I'm like, some of our, like, biggest secrets, some of the biggest, like, advancements in technology, and we're talking about plasma, we're talking about aerospace, engines. Like, you gotta be. I need to. Okay. I'm gonna send you. This. Like this. It's gonna say a Reddit thread, but it is like, of these, there's one woman who recently ruled her death a suicide, but these messages came out that she had sent someone that she knew before she died. And it's like the craziest read. If you haven't seen these yet.
- [44:05]
Ashley Flowers
No, I have to send this to you.
- [44:06]
Crime Junkie Host
I have to send them to you. And like, tbd, if people want to go down the rabbit hole, you can, like, link out to them.
- [44:10]
Ashley Flowers
Yes, I need to read this. So few questions that I have that I've always. And I don't. I know you're not part of the police, but for like, not yet. Not yet. The Idaho murders. Yeah. So Bryan Kohberger, something like that, where he. He did it. There's not a question if he did do it or didn't do it. I have a few questions. So, one, why are we making, like, why does we, anyone, make the family go through this trial, have to relive all of this? I get it's a sentencing thing. Is it death row, or is it how long the term is? But I've always wondered, if it's that concrete, like, we know this happened. Why do they make the families go through all of that?
- [44:57]
Crime Junkie Host
Well, they don't. I guess they don't make them. Bryan Coburg has a right to a trial. Like, I mean, it's. This is the framework of how the justice system is supposed to work. Like, you're supposed to be giving your day in court for the times when it isn't, you know, they got the wrong person or to prevent corruption. I mean, again, I think it's not exactly working as it's intended. But I also think that, like, a good prosecutor involves the family in those decisions to where if they're gonna offer a plea deal, a good prosecutor works with the family and they decide that together. So that way the family can decide. Like, sometimes they. They want to go to trial, because trial is what actually will provide answers. Cause oftentimes in a plea deal situation, you don't have to say anything.
- [45:40]
Ashley Flowers
But that's what I heard the family so upset about. I heard that they gave him a plea deal without the family's knowing, and now he's just sitting there silently like, I don't have to explain anything.
- [45:49]
Crime Junkie Host
Exactly.
- [45:50]
Ashley Flowers
Or I would have been like, I. I will do whatever I need to know. Why the fuck you did this? Why them?
- [45:56]
Crime Junkie Host
I know. And. And there. This is one where I think that they're getting a lot of backlash because they they took the deal and it's like they're, you know, they're saying we saved taxpayer money by doing this. Like, it was very clear cut. And then, I mean, you kind of wonder, like, is the why as important in this one? I mean, he's clearly, like, off his rocker. Like a sociopath.
- [46:16]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah.
- [46:17]
Crime Junkie Host
And like, those, those cases are really strange where it's like, was, you know, he was clearly studying up on this. Was he trying to commit the perfect murder? Do we need to. Do the families need to know why? I mean, they're entitled to it. But I don't know. I don't know if you would have gotten like, is there a satisfying answer? Is there a satisfying why? No matter what he says it's going to be. Nothing will make sense or be enough or justify anything or. I don't know.
- [46:40]
Ashley Flowers
No, I agree with you there, and that's a very good point. I understand. And I don't understand this part why judges will issue like a gag order on the families or anybody involved. Don't speak about this to the media because we don't want to sway the jury in any way. And I respect that privacy. But Also, this is 2026. The juries are going to be exposed to some media outlet.
- [47:03]
Crime Junkie Host
Yeah.
- [47:04]
Ashley Flowers
Like, for me, God forbid I was in that position. I would rather it be, like, from our mouths, like the truth as opposed to who knows what other media outlets are going to say and if it's going to be the right information.
- [47:16]
Crime Junkie Host
Oh, I agree. But I think that's part of the problem is, like, I don't know that in court juries hear the full story. There are so many rules about what can be admitted and what can't be admitted. And I mean, that's why so many cases get overturned on the defense of, like, poor counsel. It's like you're as good as your lawyer or as good as the investigator that your lawyer has. And so what they're trying to protect isn't necessarily, like, the truth or even the case. Like, they're trying to protect the case that gets presented. And I, I agree. I think that's frustrating. Like, I think that we should be able to just, like, lay out everything and make a decision based on everything, not have to, like, jump through these weird loopholes that I. That again, I know are there to try and, like, protect us and make sure that nobody gets railroaded. It's just this is where it's like, hey, what we're doing isn't working right. We should maybe, like.
- [48:07]
Ashley Flowers
And it's 2026. We have to update the system.
- [48:10]
Crime Junkie Host
Yes. Yes, that's right. Like, we're dealing with stuff like tech and all these things that, like, it's like a foreign world compared to how it was a hundred years ago.
- [48:18]
Ashley Flowers
I'm always fascinated about the medium aspect. Like, I know sometimes in missing children's cases, or I know that mediums do get along. Some do work with law enforcement.
- [48:30]
Crime Junkie Host
Yeah.
- [48:30]
Ashley Flowers
What do you feel about that?
- [48:32]
Crime Junkie Host
I'm. I'm into it. So I think, like, anything. It's so sad because I feel like so many families get taken advantage of in, like, a time when, like, they're already going through the worst thing.
- [48:45]
Ashley Flowers
Right.
- [48:45]
Crime Junkie Host
People will be. Will reach out to them and exploit them. I mean, like, shady PIs, people who would, you know, say their dogs can do magic when they can't, and mediums. But I, like, very much believe in something. I just don't think that the world as we know it is just that black and white. And I've seen enough or had enough experiences that I think that there are some very legit people who can tap into something. I've seen them solve cases. I've seen them locate people no one else can find. And so when it's the right person, the right family member, the right circumstances, they're, you know, they're not in it for anything other than trying to solve it. And especially for the cases that are, like, you'll try anything, like, why not?
- [49:32]
Ashley Flowers
Right.
- [49:32]
Crime Junkie Host
It's, you know, if they're not exploiting the family, there. There really is no harm.
- [49:37]
Ashley Flowers
Right.
- [49:37]
Crime Junkie Host
And if you've tried everything else, sometimes this is, like, the only thing. And so I. I mean, I've worked with a ton of families who have really, really believed in it or even been, like, really changed. I recently. Did you follow the Gabby Petito thing at all?
- [49:51]
Ashley Flowers
Yes.
- [49:52]
Crime Junkie Host
I recently met her stepdad, and he was saying. He's like, you know, I was always like, I went to this, you know, something where there was this medium, and, you know, it's like someone in the audience had someone die, and he's like. I'm like, okay. And he's like. But then after the thing, you know, there's no cameras, there's no nothing. This person comes up to me and just says something that, like, there's no way they could have known. And, like, stuff like that will happen. And I think that, like, it can. It can be very helpful. And sometimes it doesn't lead you to anything, but it can bring a lot of peace, which I think is its own Help.
- [50:22]
Ashley Flowers
I believe in all that stuff too.
- [50:24]
Crime Junkie Host
You do?
- [50:24]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah, I do. And I think, like you said, there's good doctors, there's bad doctors, there's good lawyers, everything. There's bad and good too. And I think some take advantage, but I think there are some that come from a place of good and really want to help. And for that, I really appreciate that gift. I think that's what it's here for. You're talking about serious cases here. Like, do you ever get afraid, like, maybe I said too much? Cause you have so many eyes and ears on you.
- [50:50]
Crime Junkie Host
I am like.
- [50:51]
Ashley Flowers
Or do you not think about that?
- [50:52]
Crime Junkie Host
Oh, I think about it, but I actually am on the opposite end where it's like. It's what I love about podcasting and how quick something can come out into the world is because I think that, like, truth is the best defense. And like, the more people can talk about this stuff like that is that protects you more than anything else. And maybe, maybe I'm being naive, but.
- [51:11]
Ashley Flowers
No, I agree with what you're saying.
- [51:12]
Crime Junkie Host
I think if you can draw attention to it, if you can give people talking about things, putting yourself in a spotlight, putting the issue in a spotlight, it's like the dark shit happens in the shadows.
- [51:20]
Ashley Flowers
Yes, it does. So what's next for you?
- [51:24]
Crime Junkie Host
So we are. I just hired a head of TV and film. So as much as I love podcasting, and podcasting is, it will always be the center of what I do, like this. This medium. It's like so wonderful, especially for investigative journalism, but there are so many stories that I just think need to be brought to a bigger audience. So we just brought ahead of TV and film on to bring some of our IP to those areas in scripted, but really, like in documentaries, making our, you know, crime junkie into a version of a TV show. So I think we'll be doing that.
- [51:58]
Ashley Flowers
That would be great.
- [51:58]
Crime Junkie Host
I'm like, jazzed for it. I'm really, like, passionate about this, like, side project I have where I want to make Crime Junkie junior. So I.
- [52:06]
Ashley Flowers
What's that?
- [52:07]
Crime Junkie Host
Well, there's been like, nothing since Nancy Drew.
- [52:09]
Ashley Flowers
Yes.
- [52:09]
Crime Junkie Host
That's really like what Nancy Drew was for me. Exact. And I'm like, I think there is. Cause I hear from moms all the time, they're like, don't. They're like, you know, don't think I'm a bad mom. I let my like 10 year old listen and I'm like, I was that 10 year old. And so I'm like, there's. I think there's a really like great space for mysteries, for this content, especially for the educational content. These kids are faced with just like a world that like I couldn't even wrap my head around when I was that age. If we can prepare them, if we can educate them. I think not talking about this stuff is what, it's what I said about the kid episodes. It's like you gotta know what your dealing with to know how to prevent it, to fight it. And so I think there's a whole world of content for like the next gen of crime junkies that I want
- [52:54]
Ashley Flowers
to make my stepdad. We would watch Rescue 911 and Unsolved Mysteries together.
- [53:00]
Crime Junkie Host
I miss Robert Sarah all the time, every day of my life.
- [53:03]
Ashley Flowers
Oh my gosh, that is crazy. No, but like, not even by my choice, like that's what he would watch and then I would just be laying in bed like fascinated. And it's probably what that started all this. Who knows? I never remember being scared at night. It wasn't that like, it's just something. It's strange. Like you're. It was just some, like how you said some people are just built for it. Built for it. And I think that's. I was just built to watch that stuff.
- [53:28]
Crime Junkie Host
Unsolved Mysteries. I always joke that John Walsh was my first boyfriend because we would spend every Saturday night together, same, he was
- [53:35]
Ashley Flowers
cheating on you with me and vice versa. But. But yeah, I love that for you because that's something that we are missing.
- [53:44]
Crime Junkie Host
And I've got. I mean, my daughter's four now and so as she like, I see her like she loves if I tell her a mystery story and I'm like, oh, there's like, there's my little crime junkies out there.
- [53:55]
Ashley Flowers
Yeah. And generational. She'll be, oh, yeah, you next. That's crazy. That's so fun. That is fun. Is there anything that you don't tell her? Like, do you not want her to know about certain things?
- [54:08]
Crime Junkie Host
I mean, like, I don't talk to her about like, you know, gruesome crimes or anything like that. I mean, we talk about a lot about danger and I don't even say stranger danger because like I said earlier, most of the time, especially with kids, the danger is somebody that they know.
- [54:24]
Ashley Flowers
That's a good point.
- [54:25]
Crime Junkie Host
And so we talk about like, about it not being her job to make people comfortable and about boundaries and we talk about what's normal and not normal and what to do if she feels uncomfortable. There are no secrets. There are only surprises because surprises people find out about. An adult's never going to ask you to keep a secret. So I'm using a lot of.
- [54:44]
Ashley Flowers
I love that wording.
- [54:45]
Crime Junkie Host
Yeah. I mean, it's something. I don't know where I heard it from, but I'm like, that's so important. I was like, an adult will never ask you to keep a secret. There can be surprises where, like, you know, dad's doing something, but mom's going to find out.
- [54:54]
Ashley Flowers
Right.
- [54:55]
Crime Junkie Host
And we're going to share that.
- [54:56]
Ashley Flowers
I love that.
- [54:57]
Crime Junkie Host
That's like. I'm like, I tell everyone to try and instill that in their kids because it's all about shame. And it's never their job to protect someone either.
- [55:06]
Ashley Flowers
Right. Because I do know secrets. But my daughter does spill the beans because she's not allowed to have a secret. But that's so smart to say, no secrets, but there can be surprises. Yeah. I love that. Ashley, flowers. This was amazing.
- [55:20]
Crime Junkie Host
Thank you so much.
- [55:21]
Ashley Flowers
Loved this. I could go on and on, but you and I will get canceled or something.
- [55:26]
Crime Junkie Host
We'll have to do, like, a little true crime corner sometimes. Conspiracy corner.
- [55:29]
Ashley Flowers
Yes, Conspiracy corner corner. I need that. I had so much fun, and I have so many other cases and so many other things, but we'll save that for another time.
- [55:37]
Crime Junkie Host
Thank you. This is wonderful.
- [55:38]
Ashley Flowers
Thank you.