Podcast Summary

How the Church Can Face a New Global Crisis: Childlessness

Podcast: Know What You Believe with Michael Horton
Host: Michael Horton
Guest: Matthew Lee Anderson (Baylor University, Oxford)
Date: June 17, 2025

Main Theme

In this episode, Michael Horton and ethicist Matthew Lee Anderson explore the emerging global crisis of childlessness and declining birth rates. They address questions about the church’s response to these demographic changes, the ethical and theological dimensions of procreation, and how to foster a healthy perspective that affirms both the call to family life and the dignity of those who are childless. The conversation probes cultural anxieties, individual choice, societal pressures, and how the Christian doctrine of the body can shape our understanding.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Global Decline in Birth Rates

• Observation of the Trend
  • Declining birth rates are a feature of developed countries globally and are now a source of concern in America, particularly in urban settings which are less family-friendly.
    • “You have declining birth rates basically everywhere on the globe…urban contexts are not very family friendly.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [02:16]
  • There is a sense of unfamiliarity and discomfort with children in everyday life, and an aging population is raising questions about societal sustainability.

Christian Ethics and the Decision to Have Children

• Can Christians Tell Others to Have More Children?

  • Ethical decisions about family size require discernment, not rigid mandates.
    • “I don’t think Christians can just say broadly there’s any sort of moral obligation to have more babies…But I think we can say as a general rule of thumb, how many babies do you think you can support? And then add one more.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [03:32]
  • There are “better and worse reasons” for having or not having children, and the church must avoid the error of overemphasizing procreation due to social anxieties alone.
    • “What happens is bad reasons for having children start to emerge…Historically, it’s not really gone well when countries have encouraged people to have babies, because usually the reasons for doing so are not reasons that I think Christians would want to endorse.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [05:23]

• Theological Framing

  • Children are a gift—but not the ultimate hope or future of the church. The primary identity of Christians is as ‘children of God,’ not as biological parents.
    • “Children are not quite the church’s future. The church’s future is being children of God. And that has to be the main thing that the church says.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [06:47]

Responding to Overpopulation & Climate Concerns

• Environmental and Resource Anxiety
  • Anderson acknowledges student anxieties about climate change but challenges the overpopulation narrative.
    • “If you decline to have children, you have to ask this question: who’s going to bury you at the end of your life?” — Matthew Lee Anderson [09:29]
  • He contends much of the fear comes from social conditions (like isolation from both elderly and children) more than strictly environmental facts.

Addressing Childlessness and Church Culture

• Navigating Judgment and Stigma

  • Many childless or infertile couples experience pain or alienation, intensified in environments where parenthood is highly celebrated.
    • “A lot of our churches are set up…to reinforce the good of having children…just as a rule, I don’t think I would go to a church that aggressively celebrated Mother’s or Father’s Day.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [12:26]
  • The church should acknowledge both the pain of childlessness and the danger of idolizing family.
    • “The Lord gives, the Lord takes away. And I think that sense of hope is what childless couples have to win, have to cultivate, and fight for.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [14:08]

• Building Communal Bonds Beyond Biology

  • Childless couples can find deep, meaningful relationships in spiritual family.
    • “If you cultivate joy for your friend’s child, you can act in a motherly and fatherly way towards that child…fulfilling those dimensions of what God has called you to do.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [15:50]
  • Adoption should not be seen as an automatic next step for the childless; it is a separate vocation and calling.

Gender, Procreation, and the Risks of Reductionism

• Procreation and Gender Roles

  • There is an asymmetrical burden in procreation—women face more demands, and the church must avoid reducing women to “child-birthing” identities.
    • “We have to be able to think well about what women offer. Gestation, labor, being mothers—only women can do that…but within all of that, they’re persons, and they’re more than all of that as well.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [18:00]

• Societal Trends and Technology

  • Anderson warns against technocratic and utilitarian approaches—such as artificial wombs—and frames of thinking that treat babies and bodies as products.
    • “People are desperately trying to figure out how to make babies in labs at a more efficient rate than ordinary procreation…If you can crank them out, assembly line babies, what could possibly go wrong?” [20:13]

The Christian View of the Body

• Core Theological Distinctives

  • Christianity uniquely affirms both the glory and fragility of the body. Christ’s incarnation, death, and resurrection dignify bodily existence and suffering.

    • “What Christianity has to offer…is, on the one hand, an affirmation of not only its dignity, but its glory. That Christ, in taking on flesh…not only affirms that the body is good, but that its goodness is undefeated and glorious.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [20:50]

  • The church celebrates scars, suffering, and weakness as sites of redemption and glory, transforming shame into beauty.

    • “The wounds of our bodies will become that—they will be places where we will just show, ‘These are the wounds that I got on my way to sanctification.’” — Matthew Lee Anderson [23:20]

  • Anderson shares how this theology of the body was decisive for his own journey to Christian faith.

    • “To me, it just all comes down to the body. Like, this is the whole sum and game of the Christian faith.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [24:09]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “One does not have another baby to please the vicar’s wife.” — Quoted by Anderson to highlight cultural and social pressures around procreation [03:32]
• “Children are not the cult of children. We can’t have cult-like behavior around, ‘children are our future.’” — Matthew Lee Anderson [06:36]
• “The church’s future is being children of God. That has to be the main thing the church says.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [06:47]
• “If you decline to have children, you have to ask this question: who’s going to bury you at the end of your life?” — Matthew Lee Anderson [09:29]
• “I think the pressure to say, ‘Oh, you don’t have children, you should adopt,’ I really dislike that…Adoption is its own vocation.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [16:36]
• “We have to be able to think well about what women offer…they’re persons, and they’re more than all of that as well.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [18:00]
• “Christ, in taking on flesh…not only affirms that the body is good, but that its goodness is undefeated and glorious.” — Matthew Lee Anderson [20:54]
• “This is the whole sum and game of the Christian faith.” — Matthew Lee Anderson on the centrality of the body [24:09]

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [02:16]—Declining birth rates and their implications
• [03:32]—Social and moral complexity of procreation for Christians
• [06:36]—Dangers of overemphasizing procreation in church teaching
• [09:29]—Climate/overpopulation anxieties and the “who will bury you?” question
• [12:26]—How church practices can stigmatize childlessness
• [15:50]—How the childless can contribute to church life as spiritual family
• [18:00]—The need to honor women beyond reductive roles
• [20:50]—Theology of the body: dignity, pain, suffering, and glory
• [23:20]—Bodily wounds and sanctification as testimony

Tone & Conclusion

The conversation is earnest, thoughtful, and pastoral, marked by academic rigor and personal honesty. Anderson and Horton avoid simplistic answers, emphasizing the complexity of human life, the necessity of hope, and the profound resources Christian doctrine offers for reorienting communal life toward dignity, joy, and shared struggle—whether through raising children or embodying spiritual family in other ways.

For listeners looking for robust discussion on faith, ethics, and the pressures facing the church in a rapidly changing world, this episode offers rich guidance and provokes deeper reflection on how to engage both hope and heartbreak together.