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Knowing Faith
What Does It Mean to Be Set Apart? with Tasha Calvert
00:28:42
Kyle Worley is joined by Tasha Calvert to have a conversation about her book “Set Apart for More: The Transformative Power of Living Your Whole Life for a Holy God.”
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- [00:02]
Announcer
This episode of Knowing Faith is brought to you by Crossway, publisher of Stand in All How Reverence Transforms Our Worship and Our Lives Laura's story seeks to lead Christians in scriptural reverential worship all
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Kyle Whirly
seven days of the week.
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Announcer
Sharing her 20 years of experience as a worship leader and award winning recording artist, she clarifies what worship is and what it isn't and what's at stake without it.
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Kyle Whirly
Pick up a copy of Stand in all wherever books are sold or visit crossway.orginall to learn how to get 30%
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Announcer
off with a free Crossway plus account. Discover God's heart for you and clarify your calling with the Every Woman's Bible the Every Woman's Bible is packed with engaging study notes and devotionals from over 100 women scholars, writers and contributors from around the world. This Bible addresses topics relevant to women with cultural, historical, and literary clarity and context to gain greater understanding. Enjoy a rich combination of maps and charts, articles, reflections, and study notes combined with imagery that reflects the beauty of Scripture. Learn more@everywoman's bible.com and pick up a copy Today. Prayer can often feel mysterious or like a formulaic transaction. But in the Lord's Prayer, Jesus offers something deeper, a framework that reshapes how we think about God, ourselves, and the world around us. At in the Word with Jen Wilken, you'll explore the Lord's Prayer with fresh eyes and renewed purposes. Through teaching, worship with Sandra McCracken and Reflection, you'll walk away with a deeper theology of prayer and practical tools to transform not just how you pray, but why you pray. Bring a friend, bring your Bible, and join Jen Wilken in the Word.
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Kyle Whirly
This is Kyle Whirly, and I am not joined by Jen Wilkin and J.T.
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Tasha Calvert
ingle.
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Kyle Whirly
They are, you know, summertime slackers. This is our first release of the summertime episodes of Knowing Faith. And you know, if you see Jenner JT out at one of these conferences that they're at, you know, maybe you run into him at TGC Women's or the SBC conference. You just say, you know what? Why are you slacking on Kyle? You just. You just are a slacker. Summer has gotten into their system. But I am here with a friend, a partner, a Sister in Christ, Tasha Calvert, and I'm really excited to talk with Tasha. Tasha is the women's minister at Prestonwood Church in Dallas, Texas, Texas. She is a host of Digging In, a weekly podcast centered on Christian living. She's the author of over 15 Bible studies they can be accessed on Right Now Media, YouVersion, YouTube, PrestonWoodWomen.org she recently released the book we are discussing today, Set Apart for more, the transformative power of living your whole life for a holy God. Tasha, welcome to Knowing Faith.
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Tasha Calvert
I am so excited to be here. And Kyle, you know, we could be reading our books. We're discussing poolside, so I don't want it to seem like we don't also have a lot going on this summer.
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Kyle Whirly
That is exactly right, because Tasha and I, Tasha and I could be somewhere right now sipping Baptist approved mocktails 100% and enjoying the summer sun. But no, we are here digging in, doing the deep work of considering what it means to be holy. And that's what Tasha's book is all about. Yes, I love that. That's exactly right. No, but honestly, I should say you're welcome is the appropriate response because I was just about say thank you. I'm holding for the people over on our Patreon that get the video access to this. I am holding up Tasha's book set Apart for more, which is honestly beautiful to look at. But more than that, I love the title. The title is the Transformative Power. The subtitle is the transformative power of living your whole life for a Holy God. And I love that subtitle because oftentimes a book will make a promise in a subtitle that it absolutely does not deliver on. It's like the author decided, you know what, the title doesn't say enough. So let's put a little bit more words on the page in order to convince people to pick up the book. But the subtitle sometimes is a little bit more aspirational than real. But that is not the case with this book. I was just telling Tasha I have not finished it. I'm about 60, 70% of the way done. But I actually started in the second part of this book and I'm going to tell you why at the end of this episode, because what Tasha does in the second half of this book, which we'll get to in our conversation, is really unique. And there are not. I am not familiar with many other contemporary Christian books on holiness that do what Tasha does at the second half of this book, and we're going to come to that here in just a few moments. But if you've been following along the last couple of seasons, you know, we're covering tricky questions, thorny topics, and that's what we've been covering on these seasons. And so my question for you, Tasha, is the book is called Set Apart for More and I feel like set apart is a phrase that, like, if you've been to church services or you. You've been around Christian discipleship, set apart can be a little bit of, like, some Christian vocabulary. What does it actually mean? Like, why did you use the phrase set apart? Why do we use that phrase? When do we hear it? Where does it come from? What does it mean?
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Tasha Calvert
Absolutely. Well, I. To your point. Yes. If you've been in a faith circle or Christian circle at all, you kind of understand that, and probably you even understand it and link it to holiness. Because I think if we know any, like, framework for holiness, we know it's. Well, holiness is to be set apart, and maybe even we would know it's to be set apart for God. But the interesting thing is, as somebody who is in a ministry space, you know, pretty much 24 7, I never hear of people describing themselves as holy. I never. I mean, literally, Kyle, not one time has a woman come into my office and been like, hey, I wanted to meet with you, because I'm just really seeking to grow in holiness. Like, holiness is kind of one of those things we just step way, way back from.
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Kyle Whirly
Yeah, you're right.
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Tasha Calvert
And so I think the first thing to answer your question of what we need to understand about being set apart is we don't have to achieve that if we are in Christ. We are that God has declared, like, that is where we are starting from. And, you know, I don't want to get the cart before the horse, but I think one of the things that I realized that has kind of. And let me just. I'll just tell. Tell you as my testimony, one of the things, as someone who had grown up in the church, grown up in a family of faith, and really sought to serve God with most of my life, I was way more comfortable pursuing attributes of holiness than actual holiness. Because the other stuff, if I wanted to pursue generosity or I wanted to pursue obedience or faith or justice or any of those things, in my mind, those were things I thought I could accomplish, me being the operative word there. And really, if we start with holiness, if we start with that, we are set apart by God and we are already declared this. The other things flow from that. And it really just makes so much more sense. And so I'm so thankful that the Lord really took me on this journey of showing me not how to be set apart, but how I am set apart and why that matters, because that's really an important distinction that I make in the book.
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Kyle Whirly
Yeah, well, let's talk a little bit about what anchors holiness. If you had to, I'm putting you on the spot here. But if you had to take somebody to an anchor passage for you that frames the way you think about holiness and what it means for not only for God to be holy, but for us to be holy, is there an anchor verse for you or an anchor passage for you, or a kind of a one stop shop, so to speak, for somebody who's like, okay, where would I go in the Bible to, to see what it is you want me to understand?
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Tasha Calvert
Yeah. So let me give you a couple of plates. Let me give you an Old Testament and a New Testament. So in the Old Testament, and this is not a one for one, but I would say in general, when you see holiness show up in the Old Testament, you are going to see A, it's in proximity, proximity to God and B, it is often common things. So for instance, in Exodus 3 we see when, when the angel of the Lord shows up in the burning bush and then he addresses Moses and he tells him, he instructs him to remove his sandals because he's standing on holy ground. Well, five minutes earlier I want to remind you that ground was just dirt. There was nothing holy about it. So the holiness of the ground showed up when it was in proximity to God, who is holy. Same thing happens in Joshua 5 when Joshua is, you know, praying about Jericho and the angel of the Lord shows up and he tells him to remove his sandals. So it, so holiness is really to define, it is just to understand, it is what God possesses. So there is no holiness. I, I've been telling people like the good news is if you are not in Christ, you can check this one off your to do list. Like you're not gonna, you're not gonna be holy. You can't be holy. So you know, that's unfortunate for you because you're also not saved. But you have to be in Christ to be holy. It is, it is in proximity to him. And then I think where we see it really declared over us is probably Most notably in First Peter, Chapter 2, where God calls us out as a royal priesthood, a chosen nation, a holy nation chosen for him. And so again, it's not like an abc. If you do one, you're you, then you are holy. It is because I got him holy. My people are also holy. And so, so in the book I kind of do this four part framework and it's basically a working definition that says holiness is a sacred otherness that originates from God.
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Kyle Whirly
So that's just point, that is A great definition. Say that again. Because when I read that, I was really hoping I had it in my notes here, and I didn't want to volunteer it on your behalf because it's so well phrased, but. But I want our audience to hear that again. What Tasha just gave you is a really. There's a lot of biblical and theological texture on it, but it's also memorable and practical. So you say it one more time, Tasha.
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Tasha Calvert
Yeah. Holiness is a sacred otherness that originates from God.
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Kyle Whirly
So the otherness component is the set apart. Is that the set apart phrasing?
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Tasha Calvert
That's the set apart, yes. And I think, you know, Kyle, on some level, even people that would not consider themselves, like, really theologically astute or really deep in their faith, we understand that there is an otherness to holiness. I think that's why we're so hesitant to. To wear it, to name it, to call it out, to seek it. Because I think when you. When you get in church on Sunday mornings and you sing, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, you're holy forever, there's something inside of us that understands when I look in the mirror that it would not be right for someone to sing that about me. And so we really do get this on some level, that the sacred otherness, it originates from God. It is not something found in us. But I think where we drop the ball on it sometimes and where we kind of get muddied in, it is not recognizing that he then, which is the second part of the definition, it's extended to us by His Holy Spirit. And so it originates up here, but it doesn't remain there because he extends it to us as believers. And that's why we can then wear that definition of holiness. That's where we get set apart. We get set apart when His Holy Spirit indwells us as believers.
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Kyle Whirly
Let me ask you a question that might be arising in the minds of our audience. And I think I know what you might say, but I think it'll help just continue to drive this home for folks. Is holiness something I am or something I practice?
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Tasha Calvert
Both. That's what I would say. You are holy. You are holy if you are in Christ. But there are ways that we can manifest that holiness. Because when you think about it, you know our purpose in life to glorify God, to call others to Him. That happens by imaging Him. And so we are God's image bearers. We are the witness to his holiness in a lost world. And so, yes, we are holy, but we also display and practice holiness. In the ways that we live. And that kind of gets to what you were talking about. That second part of the book is like the different ways we cooperate. The way I say it, Kyle, I don't think this will make you uncomfortable, but I expanded my family through biologically, and so I had. I've had four daughters. And every time I went to the hospital, I would like, be like, hey, I'm Tasha. It's so nice to meet you. Totally gonna cooperate with everything you tell me to do. Like, if you tell me to push, I'll push. Breathe. Breathe. Yes, all the things. But at the end of the day, it is your responsibility to get that baby out of me. That's what I always thought. And that's kind of. I mean, I kind of. It's not a one for one, but it kind of helps me to understand that, you know, yes, holiness has been given to me, but we have to cooperate with God for it to really take root and manifest itself in our character.
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Promotional Voice
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- [14:49]
Announcer
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Kyle Whirly
I want to tell you about a
- [15:24]
Announcer
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Kyle Whirly
Yes. Yeah, no, I think that, I think when people hear that kind of language, particularly in our little sub theological community of cooperation, they can kind of get their hackles raised. I don't think what Tasha's saying is that your growth, growth and holiness is only predicated on what your practices are, but rather that God's grace is operative in giving us a new nature. And that when we obey God and when we give our attention over to God, that there is a growth in holiness that comes through those vehicles that God has shown.
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Tasha Calvert
Yes, that's, it's more manifest. And you know what? That's a good point because let me also say, on the days I don't, on the days I'm disobedient, in the times when I am not doing what I'm supposed to be, I'm still holy. Like, the holiness is in me because Christ is in me.
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Kyle Whirly
Because you're united with Christ, and in that union with Christ, you're given his holiness and his righteousness. And I think about Hebrews. What comes to mind for me is Hebrews 10. For by a single offering, Christ has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified in Christ. We have been perfected for all time. That's what Tasha's talking about in terms of, like, it doesn't matter how I live today, if I sin the rest of the day, when I close my eyes tonight, God the Father declares me perfect in Christ because of my union with Christ. But I am being increasingly made to look like Jesus Christ, whom I'm united to. And sin does not aid in looking more like Jesus, but obedience does.
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Tasha Calvert
Exactly, exactly. I appreciate you clarifying that because that's exactly.
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Kyle Whirly
I think it's helpful. And I know that sometimes, you know, when we think about our kind of our theological tribes and audiences, you know, I, I, I, I do think one of the things, one of the shadows of a. And I've, we've, Jen and I have talked about this at length, and I wish she would see her because she'd be our amen choir right now for what you're saying, Tasha. But I, I would say that One of the things that I feel like is a little bit of the shadow side of the, what we might say, the misunderstandings of what it means to be gospel centered or misunderstandings of the doctrines of grace or grace filled gospel is that it doesn't like, once you've placed your faith in Jesus, it doesn't matter how you live. That's a misunderstanding because it is. God is calling us to holiness later on in Hebrews, the writer of Hebrews will say, strive for peace with everyone and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. Paul will actively say, put to death the deeds of the body. Let no foolish talk be among you. So there are these exhortations and encouragements to move towards that which is holy because it's good, not because God will love us more if we do that.
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Promotional Voice
No.
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Kyle Whirly
But because of God's love, we're now free to pursue holiness. Am I getting that right? Am I representing?
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Tasha Calvert
Yes, yes you are. And I think even practically speaking, I'll just kind of take it down a notch to how that lives out, how that plays out in the life of a believer. And again, just using myself as a testimony, I knew I, I have looked from the outside holy all of my life. I really have. I've always, I've never had a season of rebellion. I've always been involved in the church. I've always been serving the things that you would typically associate with somebody who is trying to grow in their walk with the Lord, trying to display holiness. I have been, I have probably looked like, but I was in my mid-30s before it really clicked with me. I was a box checker. And the problem when, when you are just using your salvation as the proverbial parachute for one day, you know, that point of death, which we don't know when it's coming. So it's super important for us to get that squared away early on and then just try and continue about my life. Doing everything in my own strength was that, guess what? Life got hard. I'm going to a funeral tomorrow of a dear friend in our church who lost a six year old. I mean like that, that box checking faith, that trying to produce outward holiness in my own strength does not actually hold up when life gets hard. And so I think what, what practically speaking, people need to understand about holiness is holiness is actually not a trying. Holiness is a surrender. And it's allowing the Lord to move through you and to fill in the gaps, the deficits that you have. And it turns out, I don't know about your listeners But I got lots of deficit that the Lord. The Lord has much, much room to move in my life and to. To show up and to be who he is. And listen, on any even day, I would way rather be who God is in me than what I can try and produce.
- [21:13]
Kyle Whirly
That's exactly right. I have a lot of deficits, too. I don't have as many as JT does, but obviously. But I have. I have more than Jen, less than J.T. i think so. Okay, now before I want to move us to the back half of the book because I think it's worth exploring at length. You do something in this book that when I saw it in the table of contents, author to author here, we've both written books, I initially thought, tasha, I don't know that you're going to be able to deliver on this. And it's not because I didn't think that you could do it. A lot of Christian authors try to do what you do in the back half of this book. And I'll just tell you what Tasha does. So there's a lot of books. There are a handful of good contemporary books on holiness. I think of Kevin DeYoung's book Hole in Her Holiness. That's a great little work on holiness. There's not enough. Honestly, there's not enough books on holiness. And that's why Tasha's book of so significant. But I would say that I expected the first half of your book. I did not expect the second half of your book, because in the second half of your book, you take holiness, which sometimes people can just think of as kind of abiding by like, okay, give me some practices. Give me the theological grid, which you do really well, the biblical grid for what it means to be holy, to receive God's holiness in Christ. You do a wonderful job with that. And a lot of books stop there. They give you the biblical, the theological foundation for holiness. And then they'll give you some very general charge to be holy, and they'll remind you about some Christian practices. And you do all those things. But after you just draw attention to the kind of the basic disciplines or what you call holy habits, you then take the pursuit of holiness and what it means to be holy, and you apply it to conflict and fighting. You apply it to sexual, you apply it to money and money management, to relationships. And you do it so well. It's not trite. I told you this off air, so I don't mind saying it on air. It's not trite. It's not incendiary. Or explosive just to get clicks or views. It's a very measured application of what it means to be holy and to pursue holiness in light of ordinary matters. Why? Why did you do that and what were you thinking?
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Tasha Calvert
I would say two things, and you'll probably relate to the first as being a local church guy. I'm in a local church context, so I'm not writing from the context of like, disconnected from people. Like, as I'm writing these chapters, I'm envisioning real people who have had real brokenness around sex and money that has like Kyle, devastated them, you know, and, and they didn't, they didn't seek to, to blow up their lives in those ways. Nobody does. But I think what I realized was part of the reason we don't pursue holiness is because there are some things we like to keep off limits.
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Kyle Whirly
That's right.
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Tasha Calvert
And when we keep anything off limits, we just impede our sanctification and, and it impairs us in every other area. And so it felt, I mean, just to be completely honest, like I didn't really have a choice but to go there because that really is the problem. We are trying to pick and choose from a cafeteria style menu of the things we're okay giving over to God. And that was never the deal. I mean, he came in to our lives, he saved us, he gave us his holy Spirit, and then he called us to live in a certain way. And the reality is a lot of those things we don't talk about really occupy much of our life. You think? I mean, you take away, you try and do anything for a week without money.
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Kyle Whirly
Yeah.
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Tasha Calvert
Like, you're not gonna, you're sitting at home and probably not eating. I mean, you know, sex, like that is just something everyone is gonna have to come to terms with. Even people that don't choose to get married today. They are so inundated with sexual identity narratives and like, like it's just unavoidable at this point. Point. And you know, probably my age and just the experience of seeing how much devastation, lots of the infighting. I look, I mean, you know, I'm going to show my age right now, but I even look around the world and this may get. That this could end up getting cut and that's fine. But like, you know, we're so polarized. I can remember a day in our country we were not this polarized on everything. And so just the fighting, the fight even within, you know, faith circles, just, just all of it seems so loud that I think the invitation to holiness Is, hey, there is. There is a better way. There is more out there for you to experience if you will just give it all over. And I didn't want to say give it all over. I don't want to say words like surrender, because I also understand that for the average Christian out there, that sounds really great. And they would say, yeah, you're right. But they don't really know how to go home and do that. So I was like, you know what? Let's just talk about how do you go home and actually do this thing?
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Kyle Whirly
Yeah. And I thought it was so immensely practical and helpful. I think one of the things that I always kind of bemoan when a female author writes a book, they tried to make it. They try to make it look like, like the only person who could possibly read it would be a woman, you know? You know, they're like, let's put. Let's put some flowers on there. And. And I would just say, as I was reading this book there, gosh, you do a great job of applying it to the life of women because you spend a lot of time talking and teaching women. And that's awesome. I would just say there was so much in here that wasn't like, oh, wow, this would be really great for a woman in my life. It's like I was being challenged and encouraged by this as I was reading along. Okay, so when we think about pursuing holiness with all of the obstacles and temptations to do otherwise, and there are so many obstacles to the pursuit of holiness, there are so many temptations to do otherwise. Why is it worth it? Like what? Like, give us the goal, give us the reward. I think this is another thing that we don't talk enough about as Christians. We. If we get to a place where we tell Christians to be holy, we tell them, hey, it's good for you to be holy. And then we never tell them why.
- [27:38]
Tasha Calvert
Right.
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Kyle Whirly
It's good to be holy because God is holy. Well, that's true, but what's the motivation for holiness? Like, what is God like? What's the goal? What's the reward of holiness? Why go through the pursuit of holiness with all of the sacrifice and cost? Why is it worth it?
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Tasha Calvert
I think peace would be my most prominent goal at the end of it. I mean, there's just. So I'm about to teach on the book of James this fall with Prestonwood women. And I just think of how the epistle of James begins. Count it all. Joy in your temptation, in your trials. And I just don't know anybody out there anymore. I mean, I used to that when social media first came out, I think we all looked and saw everybody else's lives and thought, oh wow, they have it so good. I think now even that myth like has been blown up. We've just seen too many people like, it's just life is hard and loving your family well is hard and working is hard and imaging, imaging God is hard and being a committed person is hard. All of it is hard. But there is hard and then there is hard that produces stuff. And when you actually surrender to the will of God in your life, let him transform you. This is not a to do list. I would never want anybody to walk away thinking there is a list in here of things you can do to make yourself holy. God is going to produce holiness in you. And when you get. The more I have pushed myself out of the way, the more peace I have had. Now, notice I didn't say the more troubles have gone by the wayside. That's not the case. I have not gotten more money. None of that has happened. But I will say I am less rattled when things go on because you know what it's taught me. I have exercised the muscle that I am not in control. And so when things beyond my control enter my landscape, I am, I am increasingly confident that God is going to show up and handle those things and he's going to be with me and I can feel his presence. I mean, how many of you, you know, of your listeners might would say, yeah, I, I want to follow God, I want to hear from Him. I don't hear from Him. Well, guess what? When you get yourself out of the way and you put yourself, you know, imposture yourself before the Lord in a, in a place of surrender, and you're seeking him through his word, you start to hear from him, you start to feel his presence. And it just gives you peace in a way that I have never been able to produce on my own or by trying to emulate the things of God. It is God himself and he's so much better. I mean, Kyle, you know this. He's so much better than anything out there that I have tried to buy peace and comfort with.
- [30:38]
Kyle Whirly
Yeah, you can't say it better than that. I'll just gonna say, I think that as far as contemporary books go, there are. This will now be one of the books that I give out when I want people to consider or think on holiness. I think over the last few years, I've consistently given out 10 words to live by by Jen, which is Such a great book on God's law and his relationship to our lives of holiness. I've given out Kevin DeYoung's book A Hole in Her Holiness, and now this is going to be one of those books that I just give out. It's so practical, it's so beneficial. It's deeply biblical and theological, but it's accessible. You did a really great job with this, Tasha. Thanks for coming and talking about it with me.
- [31:21]
Tasha Calvert
Oh, thank you, Kyle. I can't tell you what that means. I just pray God uses it.
- [31:25]
Kyle Whirly
We're gonna put a link to Tasha's book in the show notes. So if you're listening and you wanna just click down and find a quick fire link to just get right to where that book is, you could do that. It's available wherever books are sold. Tasha, where can people find you if they want to go find and hear from you more as you talk about holiness?
- [31:43]
Tasha Calvert
Yeah. Tashacalvert.com or I'm on socials, I think I don't have my name. I got in on that too late. So I think it's like Tiz Tosh Tis, Tasha Calvert or Tiztosh Calvert. You'll find me.
- [31:53]
Kyle Whirly
Yeah. Yeah. And if you're looking for another podcast, go check out Digging In.
- [31:57]
Tasha Calvert
Oh, yeah. Thank you.
- [31:59]
Kyle Whirly
So thanks for listening to the podcast today. Don't forget to check out our sponsors through our webpage link. And the show notes are online@trainthechurch.com under the Knowing Faith podcast webpage. We're going to be coming at you all summer with different episodes next. Next week we will release the Patreon Q and A from our Season 15 Patreon. We have a Patreon community at trainthechurch.com support. We record the typical Knowing Faith Q and A, but then we record a special Q and A for that community as well. And so it's a full fun. I will say it's a fiery Q and A episode for next week. So if you're interested and you're on a road trip, look for it in your podcast feeds on Thursday morning. But we hope you enjoyed the discussion today. Grace and Peace.