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Why Should Every Christian Read The Pilgrim's Progress with The Lithos Team
00:34:17
Kyle Worley is joined by Lauren & Tyler to discuss the story of “The Pilgrim’s Progress.”
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- [00:02]
A
This episode of Knowing Faith is brought to you by Crossway, a nonprofit ministry dedicated to publishing gospel centered Bible based content to honor our Savior and serve as church. Crossway plus is their free membership program that makes it more convenient and affordable than ever to purchase those resources directly from Crossway. Included in A membership is 30% off all books and Bibles, free shipping on orders of at least $30 and more. I have to tell you, I think the Crossway plus account is is the easiest decision you're going to make. It is a free program that will give you 30% off of books and Bibles. This is a no brainer so visit Crossway.org CrosswayPlus program to create your free account today. Do you need a resolution Restart? It's totally fine. Keeping resolutions is hard, but don't give up. Reading the Bible is a vital way to grow in your relationship with God and you don't have to do it alone. A one year Bible can help you get back on track with daily Scripture readings. It takes you on a year long journey of exploration and growth. Though designed to guide you through the entire Bible in 365 days, it has reading plan options so you can take more time. With additions featuring journaling, devotional study notes and more, staying on track has never been easier. Renew your commitment to daily Scripture reading and embark on this path. Start your trek today@the1yearbible.com. Women have questions about their bodies, fertility, hormones and reproductive health, but many feel dismissed, confused or disconnected from God's good design. But we don't have to be troubled by thorny topics and tricky questions. And that's why I'm excited to introduce to you Woven A Christian Woman's Guide to Reproductive Health, Fertility and Wholeness. Written by certified fertility care practitioner Kaitlyn Estes, who also holds a Master of Divinity degree, the book bridges science and helping women understand how their bodies work, why that knowledge matters, and how it shapes faithful, informed decisions about health and family planning. Thoughtful, practical, hopeful, Wovenwell helps women reclaim dignity for the female body and see God's intentional design with fresh clarity. This is perfect for listeners who value rich theology applied to real life. You can find Woven well wherever you get books or@moodypublishers.com. This is Kyle Worley and I'm joined by my friends from Lithos, Lauren and Tyler. Hey, thanks for making time for us.
- [02:34]
B
Yeah, thanks for having us here. This is awesome.
- [02:36]
A
Lithos. Or am I saying it right? Lithos or Lithos.
- [02:40]
B
We take anything. Lithos. Lithos. Generally we say Lithos. Okay Lots of people say Lithos.
- [02:47]
A
Okay, well, listen, I. Regardless of how you pronounce it, pronounce it or. I'm a huge fan. I am such a huge fan of what Tyler and Lauren and their team have been doing and building that I reached out to them. Oftentimes we have publishers reach out to us that say, hey, do you want to talk about our books? And we're always excited to get to do that when we believe in a project. But this is one of those that I am such a huge supporter and advocate for that I reached out to them and said, I really want you all to come on the show and I want you to convince them why they. Whether they're an adult or they're ahead of household or they get kiddos, why they or their families should read Pilgrim's Progress. That's like my whole agenda is, I want to convince you by the end of this episode, even if you've never heard of Pilgrim's Progress, I want to convince you that outside of reading your Bible, I really want you to read Pilgrim's Progress sometime in the next 12 months and that I think your life will be better if you read your Bible first. I want to be really clear. Lauren and Tyler don't want you to give up your Bible reading either, but. So you're going to keep reading your Bible, but then you're going to commit to reading Pilgrim's Progress sometime in the next 12 months, and afterwards you're going to send me a note on Instagram and you're going to say, thank you. Thank you for encouraging me to read Pilgrim's Progress. But first, I want to have Lauren and Tyler introduce themselves and tell us a little bit about Lithos and what they're doing. So, Tyler, why don't you kick us off and then Lauren and then whoever wants to can just tell us what Lithos is about.
- [04:11]
B
Thanks, Kyle. Yeah. Five, six. Coming up on six years ago, and I was preparing to be a missionary in Cambodia and started this idea. My son was 4 years old, looked for a version of Pilgrim's Progress that would be suitable for that age. The only one was Dangerous Journey at the time that had full color illustrations. And if you've seen that, it has lots of crazy skeletons and demons and terrifying images. So I tried that. It gave them nightmares and decided I should try my hand at something a little more age appropriate and sort of somewhat naively stumbled into this publishing journey just thinking, I think I can do this. Worked away at it and wasn't sure when I'd ever be able to launch it because I was learning the Cambodian language. We were sweating like crazy and getting full into missionary life. Then Covid hit that, provided this sweet window, launched the books, people shared it like crazy, and Lithos was born and really took off and pretty. I think after about two customer service emails. I was driving to the Bible college that I was teaching at. A grandma had emailed me, where's my package? I said, I need someone to help me. Lauren had just returned from the mission field, so I contacted her and I'll pass the mic off to her.
- [05:34]
C
Yeah, it actually worked out perfectly because Tyler and I are from the same church in Ontario. So we kind of just like he went. We were coming home from the field for health reasons and he was going to, um. And yeah, like he said, it was 2020. So I. We unexpectedly found ourselves without jobs. And a week later, I get this message from Tyler. It's like, hey, I'm like starting this thing. Would you like to help? I'm like, that would be amazing. I would love to help with that. And then it just kind of went from there. It kept growing. We did Little Pilgrim's Big Journey, part one, two, and three. We added some wonderful team members along the way, and it's just so fun. It's like we get to write the books that we want for our kids and get a. Yeah. Get to put them out there.
- [06:14]
A
Yeah. So, Tyler, gimme just the headline on what is Lithos trying to do? Like, what's the goal of Lithos?
- [06:21]
B
Yeah. Biblically faithful, beautifully crafted. So we kind of looking back to how beautiful books were in the past and also how biblically faithful they've been looking at the. You know, there's over a thousand editions of Pilgrim's Progress, so we have a small collection of those growing, and that kind of inspired me. Like, could we make kids books that have this also this beautiful design? You know, Pilgrim's Progress had they. They called it eminent artists illustrated by eminent artists of the day. And so it was kind of like, could we do something really sweetly illustrated that's also deep and be biblically faithful? And so that. That's. That's the goal of everything we do. Yeah.
- [06:58]
A
So you guys. So I. I came to Lithos by way of Little Pilgrim's Big Journey. That's. That was my introduction, which is your adaptation of John Bunyan's Pilgrim Progress. And we're about to get to who Bunyan was and what the Pilgrim's Progress is like, what the story is and why it's important. And all those things. But I got there through Little Pilgrim's Big Journey. But you guys have also released, you've released like a legacy edition kind of. That's beautiful. Of Pilgrim's Progress specifically, that's the one I'm about to start in on with my 10 year old. We've done Little Pilgrims Big Journey. We've done a few other abridged versions, but we're going to that one. We're next after we finish our current. We're reading through Lord of the Rings right now. So we're, we're in two towers.
- [07:41]
C
So we got, we got like a
- [07:43]
A
couple more months of reading and then we're going to step over to that. But. So if you're listening to this, I would just. You, you've. And if you've listened to Knowing Faith in one of our Q and A episodes or where we've talked about books in the past, I have routinely recommended Little Pilgrim's Big Journey to introduce your kids to the Pilgrim's Progress. But now I want to pan out and just ask, like, what is the Pilgrim's Progress and why should everybody read it? So I'll let one of you take what it is and the other one take. Why should everybody read Pilgrim's Progress? You're giving a lot, you're giving a lot of time to trying to get people to engage this story. So what is it like? What's the story and why is it worth giving this much attention to?
- [08:28]
B
Well, I guess we'll just bounce, bounce back and forth. I'll start. The Pilgrim's Progress is just a marvel. That Bunyan is a tinker. He's kind of a poor man's son, uneducated. He's going from town to town with. I went to Bedford and did a little Bunyan excursion, tried to find everything related to him. And there in the little museum you realize, oh, he's carrying this, going around as a tinker with his tools in this big burden on his back, walking on paths from town to town. So then you start to understand why the burden would become a powerful image for him. But this uneducated guy going from town to town, preaching outside of the Church of England, which at the time you had to be ordained, you had to be specifically preaching within the church. It was some of the most chaotic years in English politics. And so Bunyan is eventually sent to jail. And in this 12 years, he starts to dream up this story of Pilgrim's Progress as an allegory, which is quite a novel idea at the time. And he thinks, should I publish it, should I not? And decides, well, let's see, maybe it'll bless some people. And then it becomes one of the most famous works of English literature. Yeah.
- [09:44]
A
Lauren, what would you add to that? About Bunyan or about the story itself?
- [09:46]
C
Oh, man. Yeah. Bunyan, his whole life story is just, like he said, like crazy. Just born into such political turmoil. And it's this whole. Even his family, he got married to Mary and they had four kids together. The first one, she was actually born blind. And then when their fourth kid was born, Mary died soon after, so he remarried. But it was a year after that he got remarried that he was imprisoned. So he spent 12 years of his life in prison with his kids growing up out there. His wife lost their baby due to all the stress she was defending him. And I just like, how can you imagine all of that there? And he's also going through that same time period. There's the bubonic plague, and then there's the Great Fire of London. So all of this grief and. And it was when his eldest child, Mary, died, when he was in prison, that he started to pen this allegory as a response. He had written things before. You know, there's things like, oh, the Quakers are writing, so he's writing a response. But this one, this story is coming out of a place like that. And he didn't finish it until his second imprisonment. But, yeah, he just could. He just experienced so many things, and that's what he's writing out of.
- [10:53]
A
And so, Tyler, the story itself, give us the kind of. The basic plot points of the Pilgrim's Progress. You say it's an allegory. It's an allegory for what?
- [11:02]
B
Yeah, Christian is leaving the City of Destruction, heading to the Celestial City, and encountering just crazy trials along the way. And Bunyan's seeing this. Bunyan would. He felt things deeply. He had a massive imagination. So he's picturing himself. He says, you know, as I walked through the wilderness of this world, I found a den where I came to sleep. And so he's seeing himself as this isolated pilgrim. You know, he's a stranger and pilgrim in this world. And he's sort of recounting his conversion, his life as a believer, in such a vivid and descriptive way that it represents. And every believer feels it quite viscerally. And so with that, there's moments where it's in his journey. He's in the Castle of Despair or. And he's locked in, and he's thinking of even suicidal thoughts in there. And so you get these realities of Bunyan, the struggles he faced as a believer. There's times he's going through the valley of the shadow of death and he hears even demons seeming to worship or to whisper blasphemous thoughts in his ear. And amidst that, there's these joys of the journey, like Beulah land and the palace beautiful. And so you see kind of the blessing, the of Christian fellowship, the joy of living amongst other believers. And yet this sense of walking through the world and facing trials, troubles and tribulations.
- [12:35]
A
Yeah, I mean, so the. It's a parable, right? Like, it's an allegory. It's a parable telling the story of the adventure of the Christian life and the highs and the lows of the Christian life. But you also mentioned it is like one of the most kind of one of the most influential, certainly works of English literature. Like it, it's significant. Like, I was talking with somebody recently who was an English lit major, and I was, I've been sharing the gospel with this person and they're an English Prof. And I was like, well, what are some of your, what do you feel like are some of the most significant works? If somebody wanted to really wrap their head around English lit, this is a non Christian English professor in our community. And they were like, well, you know, the King James Version, Bible and the Pilgrim's Progress would be two works that you have to engage, you know, and that's somebody who is not a Christian who is basically saying, even if you were just looking at the history of English literature from a kind of, from a secular viewpoint, you could not diminish the influence of the King James Version, particularly the Psalms of the KJV and the Pilgrim's Progress have had on the English language, on English prose. It has had a seismic influence. I read an article one time. It was about shared text. The idea of a shared text is that there are some text, like works of literature that seem to be so culturally pervasive that people's imagination is shaped by them in ways they're not even conscious of that. When literary scholars and sociologists who give consideration for how literary works influence a society look back on the last like, you know, 300, 400 years that they're looking at a range of texts that they have that have extras proportion of influence and that the King James Version is one of those, but also the Pilgrim's Progress is one of those works that has just had a outsized influence. Just really there was a time in which, you know, just about every English speaker in the world would have a copy of the King James Version and some awareness of the Pilgrim's Progress, which just is kind of astounding to me that it had that kind of. But it really feels like the Pilgrim's Progress doesn't ha. At least in the global West. Now. I think you could meet many evangelicals that are not even familiar with the Pilgrim. Like, it wouldn't even. Like there's people listening to this that are going, I don't even know what the Pilgrim's Progress is. And so that's faded. Do you, Lauren, do you have any theories on maybe why it. Why it faded and then like, why there's a renewed interest in it? Like, I would just hypothesizing a little bit here.
- [15:16]
C
Well, I can hypothesize. I don't know exactly why. Besides, you know, there are reports of just people not being able to read as much. And a lot of times people say, like, I can never. TikTok, maybe TikTok, who knows? I hear people talk all the time like, man, I could never read Pilgrim's Progress, the King James language in it. And like, he's so preachy and I just don't like that. But man, if you knew Penn Bunyan's story and his heart behind it, like, he is not writing this at you. He's writing it like along. Like, he's with you. He wants to walk you alongside the Christian life based on all of his experiences. And he wants to push you towards the end goal and like, press on. This is, you know, yes, life is bitter, but man, the end is sweet. And like, just push on point, point people to Christ. Um, but it's so true because, you know, I was just at TGC and in that bookstore there's probably like 3,000 titles. And that just limited because, you know, publishers could bring way more. And so there are a lot of books right now. But the Pilgrim's Progress we know has stood the test of time. It has, like you said, been read for hundreds of years and impacted so many people from like Charles Spurgeon who would read it, you know, once a year. I think he read it over like a hundred times. And like you said, it used to be in almost every English speaking household alongside the Bible. So it is not a new trending book. It's one that has encouraged so many people from so many walks of life, from whether they're, you know, politicians, you know, just a normal person, like, just everyone resonates with this story. And I feel like us too like, as we're reading every time we. We love Pilgrim's Progress, as you can tell, but every time we're reading it and getting toward the end, like, wow, this is just. You can't help but get teary eyed thinking about man. This celestial city. Bunyan is pointing us and helping us keep that eternal perspective no matter what our circumstances and life are. So it's just. Yeah, that's my little push for that.
- [17:05]
A
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I. I agree wholeheartedly. Tyler, do you have any theories on why you think readership started to fade on such a. Because at one point it was such a cemented text. I mean, like, if you walked into somebody's home that might have been a homestead farmer in colonial America, it's possible they would have had. If they were going to have books in that home, it's very likely one of them would have been a King James version Bible, and the other one would have been a copy of the Pilgrim's Progress. Yeah, like, it was just like a standard. Like, what happened.
- [17:36]
B
Building off that, the missionaries, when they would go overseas, it'd be the Bible. And then Pilgrim's Progress. For hundreds of years, it was always Bible, Pilgrim's Progress. We're gonna. And what we're gonna translate. This is the order. And so Pilgrim's Progress has the most translations of any book, which is pretty phenomenal because of that reality. And yeah, just from layman's perspective, it seems like when I talk to friends, people, it's like, oh, yeah, the old language, I can't. I have a hard time pushing through that. And then the other. There's maybe a subtle snobbery we have, I guess, at least in the artistic community, it's like, ooh, allegory. Like, I don't do allegory, but it's like, man, like Lauren was saying, here's a book that has blessed hundreds of thousands or more Christians for more than 300 years and has carried on, you know, there's over 1200 editions that have been printed. And so there's something here that it feels like, okay, every Christian needs to read this. This is kind of like the great hymns of the faith that have passed down from one generation to another that connect you to the past. Pilgrim's Progress is that.
- [18:46]
A
Yeah, you know what? I think that both of you are right. I have a sinking suspicion that one of the reasons that Pilgrim's Progress faded in readership is because it makes no bones about the difficulty, trial and suffering that is a natural part of the Christian life, an expected part of the Christian life. And if there are criticisms of Bunyan's work, and there are many criticisms of Bunyan's story, whether just in form or in substance, one of the most common ones is that there might be a glorification or an exaltation of hardship. I think that's unfair. But I do think that one of the reasons why it's not nearly as I would say, that largely Christian expression in the global west has sought to insulate itself from the realities of discomfort. And the Pilgrim's Progress does not do that. It does not do that. And where now, because of industrialization and the deliverances of modernity, you can have a bit more insulation from discomfort than what, you know, colonial America or Victorian England would have allowed and offered to you, you can distance yourself from discomfort a lot more effectively than you could in Bunyan's day. And Bunyan's work will raise the question of, like, hey, do, do you think maybe you've grown? Do you think that part of the comfort is that maybe you have insulated yourself from the seriousness of Christian discipleship? That's an uncomfortable. Like, if you're thinking about a evening read, it's a lot better to pick up something that's going to basically, you know, give you a nice little pat on the shoulder than like, hey, have you given yourself over to the City of Vanity? You know, it's like, yeah, yeah, like, you know, like, that is probably. That's more of an uncomfortable question. So, Lauren, you just came back from tgc and I wanted to ask you this, and it's good timing since we're recording this on the week after. Why are people being drawn to this story again? I mean, you guys are doing. Lithos has done a great work of adapting this in a way that is really lovely. So I'm not surprised that people want to pick up the books because they look good. The books do look good. They, they, they do look good. And, and everything that Lithos has put out, I have felt like is just qualitatively better than typically what you're getting anywhere else. And you guys have a graphic novel version of this story coming out, right?
- [21:17]
B
Yeah, super excited about that, which is awesome.
- [21:20]
A
I'm pumped about it too, because it felt like you had the, the adaptation for your young kiddos. You're like three to seven and eight year olds, but like the tween kind of space, you know, And I feel like that graphic novel will hit that, that demographic in a way that will be accessible. And then you've got the legacy edition that's more kind of like, you know, you're. You're fully finished, kind of unabridged version of the story. But why, apart from the aesthetics of it and the. The kind of craftsmanship of it? Lauren, why are people, like, why are they stopping by the lithos booth going, I've really wanted to read this to my kids. Or I've wanted to read Pilgrim's Progress. Like, is there something happening beneath the surface that's drawing people to this story?
- [22:01]
C
For sure. I don't think it's, like, us at all. It's normally like, hey, I read this book. Come read this. But I think a lot of. Like you said, a lot of people haven't ever read Pilgrimage Progress before. So for many of these parents, the first time they're reading the story is through these children's adaptations, and they're just relating it to it so well. And I think what Bunyan does really good is that there's also a lot of believers just feel so alone in what they're experiencing, whether, like, they're thinking, man, I'm the only one dealing with this sin in my life, or I'm the only one experiencing these circumstances, or I am the only one having these doubts and just not sure what to do with those. Um, so people are just a little afraid to open up sometimes, even in discipleship, like, to admit that you are weak or failing an area or struggling medbunion. Just, like, I don't care what people think. I'm just gonna lay all my problems and struggles out there, and you can just weed through that. Um, and so. And again, he's just doing that so you can. He's so relational, and he wants people to. Yes. Even in their darkest moments, like, remember God's promises to you and his strengths. I remember when we came off the field due to health reasons, my husband was bedridden for months. And so I was like, I'm going to read a children's adaptation of Hilgram's Progress. This will be great. And we get to this scene where Christian has injured so much already, and he gets to the scene where he's battling with Apollyon. And, you know, it's not going well for Christian. He's just so beat down and discouraged. Like, how on earth is he going to battle this big monster? And at that time, like, man, that's how we're feeling. We're just feeling so crushed and just so burdened. Like, what is the Lord doing? Like, why has he left us like this? Does he even care for us. Yet in that moment, like Christian is just ready for waiting for that final blow. And God intervenes and he strengthens Christian and Christian's able to grab that sword, slay Apollyon, you know, quote from scripture, like Bunyan always does and just gives glory to God. Like, hey, it's this. God is here to help us. And I think a lot of people think, well, Christian is just getting from point A to point B in this journey he's got to do all by himself. And that's so far from it. Because all from the beginning, God is there helping him, whether that is, you know, he falls into a bog and he's pulling him out with help. He's knocking on the door, and God is opening the door and letting him in. He's just alongside this whole journey, giving him a friend, giving him rest. Like, so much of this walk is God helping us. And I think these parents who are reading these books are like, wow, like, this is so helpful and so true. And I think, I honestly think that's why parents are being drawn to this story. It's just because of that.
- [24:32]
A
Yeah, I think
- [24:35]
C
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- [25:10]
A
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B
Yeah.
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A
And so they're like, we want that. We want to get a storybook Bible for our kids. But, like, why would you say, like, hey, once you get that rhythm of Bible engagement in your home, like, once you've got that as a foundation, why would you tell them, like, hey, consider making the Pilgrim's Progress story a part of, like, your family discipleship? Because that's kind of how y' all started. I know you've gone broader than just that, that group, but that's been a real driving passion for you from the beginning. And it's still kind of the tip of the spear for lithos. Like, why would you tell them? It's worth giving time to. There's, again, there's like, so many options for them, like, whether with lithos or another one. Like, why Pilgrim's Progress generally for their kids?
- [29:05]
B
Yeah, I think that there's so many storybook Bibles, so many Christian books, But one particular thing about Pilgrim's Progress is that it introduces kids to suffering, to death, to trials, as we've talked about, in a really approachable, sweet way. So that we've had so many. Even in the early days, one of the most common things we have is people come up with kind of watery eyes, like, you don't know how many times we've read this. You don't know how many times I've cried at this part or this part, or something's jumped out at me in a new way. And sometimes people at conferences will come up with those same watery eyes and be like, thank you for this. Because when we were in the hospital, this was the language my kid used, or when Grandma died, the language my kid used was like, oh, Grandma's crossed the river of death and she's in the celestial city. So it's given them sort of language to use in the midst of these trials of life, which I think a lot of children's books tend to avoid. So bringing kind of this epic story down to a level that a 4 to 8 year old can kind of cling to the language, that's a really beautiful thing. The other, something as simple as the burden of sin, you know, kids understanding like, oh, yeah, my sin is a burden. There's no way I can take it off myself. I can't remove it by, you know, going to the village of morality, which has historically been a Huge danger of kids ministry like to say, like, oh, a few kids can get this idea, like, okay, if I do X, Y, Z, if I follow these rules or commands, then I'll kind of be a good boy or a good girl and I'll earn God's favor. Seeing the danger of that as Christian goes to, you know, approaches the town of morality and it's like the law is going to fall down like a mountain and crush him and that it's only at the place of deliverance, only at the cross they can be freed from it. And again, just so privileged, this book, having been out for six years, to hear these stories of kids grasping that and for the first time understanding the gospel and the need for their burden of sin to be removed. We've heard stories of families saying, like, our six year old is telling our four year old the gospel, like through this imagery, like, oh, you've got a burden of sin, like, like only Jesus can remove it. You need to go to the cross, you need to go to the place of deliverance. Look at Christian. So those kind of realities and then being able to discuss that with your kids, to have this kind of similar, like we've shared historically as Pilgrim's Progress has been passed down, I think even families have kind of clung on to some of this imagery and their discipleship to say, like, oh, here's language we can use to talk to our kids about sin, to talk to our kids about suffering, to talk to our kids about the glory that's awaiting us. And so even as I'm writing this as a missionary in Cambodia and adapting it, so many of the images are just planting themselves in my heart and mind. We're like the hill of difficulty. As I'm facing just different challenges of health in Cambodia and I'm seeing Krishnamura give up climbing this difficult hill as we're away from family. You know, being able to explain to my son, like, oh, here's why we're here, because we have an eternal hope. And he couldn't pronounce his words properly, so he'd call it the Felestial city or something like that. And so as we're missing grandparents, it's like, oh, we're all going to be. Because they believe in Jesus, we're all going to be reunited in this celestial city. And that's why we can endure as missionaries. That's why we go to the other side of the world to do. Because we want more people to come to the celestial city. So all of those reasons, I think, just make family Discipleship. Such a rich, sweet time, then compacted into a story that is really gripping. I love giving this to unbelievers especially. We just had people picking up chairs yesterday. I was like, hey, I got a book for your kids. Take this. They're like, wow, it's beautiful. They go, and so seeing the kids, we were just. Sorry. Last week we were at my in laws and a kid comes over to their house to visit my kids and he sees one of the books and he picks it up and he's transfixed. And I don't say this to my in laws told me this. They're saying he picked it up and he wouldn't put it down. This 10 year old boy and he sits down on the couch and he's three chapters in and his parents come, so you have to go. And he's like, oh, I want to finish the story. And my analysts are like, take it, go take it. Go read it at home. So such sweet opportunities for both believers, unbelievers, just to engage with the heart of the gospel.
- [33:49]
A
I love it. I could not agree with that more, honestly. I just, I want to tell our listeners I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a, I'm gonna do a promo here for, for, for Lithos and for these books and then I'm gonna make a selfish request. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna give a little bit, then I'm gonna ask a little bit from the Lithos team. But. Okay, so if somebody was asking me right now, like what would be like your, your cookbook or your like your basket of resources for, you know, a family looking to, to specifically with elementary age kiddos to start engaging in family discipleship. I would be like, great. You need a really good storybook Bible. Like find a really good storybook Bible and there's a number of them out there. And then after you have that storybook Bible, you need to get Little Pilgrim's Big Journey from Lithos. That would, that would say that is like square one and square two. Those two things meaningfully engaged within the context of your local church is a really good pathway forward. There are a lot of picture books out there. I'm releasing picture books. Jen has a picture book coming out. We think those are great as one shot opportunities and those are great. I honestly think the best foundation you could be laying right now would be Bible engagement and Little Pilgrim's Big Journey by adapting the Pilgrim's Progress story for your kiddos. My daughter is psyched about the graphic novel, like, so pumped about this Graphic novel. She asked me regularly when it's coming out. She knows that I typically can get things early. So she has asked me many times, dad, do you think you could get an early copy? And so I'm just putting that out there into the world for the Lithos team.
- [35:27]
C
Look right there.
- [35:29]
A
But my, my selfish request is have you guys. I'm putting this out there. You don't have to give me an answer on air. I think a board book because I've got. So I've got my two year old. Okay. I've got my two year old. And we're not really ready for the big journey yet. Okay. So we got like another probably year and a half with her. And what I'm looking for is a board book. So I know you guys have a million things going on, but if you're ever whiteboarding and you're going, hey, what's the next project? I'm just putting this out on little.
- [36:01]
C
Little Pilgrim's big Jo.
- [36:04]
A
Littlest pilgrim, Littlest Pilgrims. And no, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm half joking, but I am so grateful for you guys. Tyler, I. Man, just even hearing the story, I had not heard that I knew that you'd been on the field when you started kind of envisioning this project, but man, to see where the Lord has taken that. Like I said for our audience, a lot of times publishers reach out to us and ask us. And I have given a lot of love to Little Pilgrims on Knowing Faith. And Lithos has never asked me to come on the show to talk about the book. And I was super psyched to have them on the show because this is something I really believe in. And I want you guys to get in on this because I have seen how fruitful it is as it engages kids imaginations in particular. So please do that. Please go grab a copy of that. Anything else that you would want to tell our audience that they should be on the lookout for for you guys?
- [36:56]
B
We're super excited about a church history series. I think that'll be the next, kind of one of the next big chapters of the Lithos story. So just doing multiple volumes of kind of like a storybook Bible, but church history, that's again kind of a daunting task. But I feel like the Lord's prepared and led us towards getting super accessible church history. And from the little bits I've been able to share with people, I think that that's also super powerful. And just hearing the stories of faithful believers, martyrs that have stood through Trial, heresy, everything. So yeah, we're stoked for that.
- [37:34]
A
Okay, excellent. Well, we'll look forward to that. Hey, for our audience, go check out Lithos. You can find them if you Google Lithos, it'll pull up. Or you can go to lithoskids.com and you can check it out and check out the range of resources they have. Little Pilgrim's Big Journey is great to start with your littles. And then they have this graphic novel that's coming out this fall, and that's worth checking out as it releases. For those who are looking towards the fall for adult programming, I would encourage you, as we have been encouraging you, that now is the time to be a part of solving the crisis of biblical and theological illiteracy. And one of the ways that you can do that is by jumping into the Deep Discipleship Program. So you can go to lifeway.com deepdiscipleship and check out the Deep Discipleship Program if your small group is looking for what you're gonna do this fall. If you have a class on Sunday mornings or maybe Wednesday nights midweek programming, or if you're a ministry leader who's just really passionate about depth and you wann people grow in depth. The feedback we've gotten on the first year of the Deep Discipleship Program has been unbelievable. We were just at a very large conference and hearing from folks that have participated and completed the program was really encouraging. So if you're looking to dive deep together in the life of a small group or a church, go check out the Deep discipleship program@lifeway.com Deep Discipleship thanks for listening to the podcast today. You can find all our sponsors through our webpage link in the show notes. We'll also include links to Lithos website and their resources in the show notes as well. Or you can go to the Knowing Faith podcast webpage. We hope you enjoyed the discussion. Grace and Peace.