#1086: Tucker, The Man And His Texan Part 2

Summary

Summary: Knowledge Fight #1086 – "Tucker, The Man and His Texan Part 2" (Oct 20, 2025)

Podcast: Knowledge Fight
Hosts: Dan & Jordan
Episode: 1086 – "Tucker, The Man and His Texan Part 2"
Date: October 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode picks up with Dan and Jordan continuing their deep-dive analysis of the recent collaboration between Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson. The hosts navigate through clips from Alex’s show, focusing on his discussion with Tucker, and provide their characteristic critical commentary, debunking falsehoods and dissecting the underlying strategies and contradictions at play.

The episode covers a wide range of topics, from vaccine conspiracies and anti-science rhetoric to the performative nature of modern right-wing Christianity. Dan and Jordan scrutinize how Alex and Tucker grapple with their own loyalty to Trump, their muddled religious messaging, and their shared penchant for audience manipulation. The recurring themes are media opportunism, the weaponization of religious language, and the strategic courting of the far right.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bright Spots, Bants & Personal Touches

• [01:10] Dan’s “bright spot”: A humorous, extended plot summary of an absurd MacGyver episode involving killer ants and chocolate plantations.
• [06:39] Jordan’s “bright spot”: Shohei Ohtani’s fictional tour-de-force baseball performance (striking out 10, hitting 3 HRs in one game)—serving as a lead-in to the idea of excellence amid nonsense.

2. Acknowledgment of New Supporters

• [12:08] – [14:07] The “wonk” and “technocrat” shoutouts; recurring in-jokes and stylized Alex Jones sound bites.

3. Trump's Vaccine Flip-Flopping and Anti-Science Posturing

• [14:24–19:15]
  • Alex and Tucker debate Trump's recent public COVID and flu vaccinations.
  • Serious cognitive dissonance: They’re “not sure” if Trump really got the vaccine; maybe it was staged, maybe not. Both try to maintain anti-vax bona fides while rationalizing Trump's actions.
  • Dan’s analysis: Anti-vax hysteria is central to Trump’s appeal, yet he relies on science for his personal safety while exploiting anti-science sentiments for power.
  • Notable Quote:

    "If he knows it's fake, yeah. Then he's trying to get people to take a dangerous thing by pretending to get it himself, which is murder. That's real bad. Yeah. If he doesn't know, then somebody's trying to murder him. Right. Anyway."
    — Dan ([18:49])

4. Misleading Vaccine Claims & Health Propaganda

• [24:13–32:31]
  • Alex spreads misinformation about the flu vaccine’s effectiveness and ties into his (incorrect) narrative that vaccines and gain-of-function research are responsible for societal decay.
  • Dan debunks: Explains flu vaccine design, “surveillance bias” in studies, the realistic rates of effectiveness, and why Alex’s claims are intentionally misleading.
  • Key Insights:
    • The rhetoric is rooted in distrust, cultivated by and profitable for Alex’s supplement sales business.
    • Both critique and leverage “public ignorance of science.”

5. Religion as Marketing and Social Control

• [39:05–54:07]
  • Repeated references to “God” and spiritual awakening serve as performative branding rather than sincere belief.
  • Alex’s logic: DMT induces messages from demons encouraging depopulation; spirituality equated with “intel drops” from God after loyal service.
  • Dan’s take:
    • Religion is exploited as a brand; there’s more interest in the power it conveys than any moral teachings.
    • The right’s modern theocratic drift is less about divinity and more about “divine right” to power.
  • Notable Quote:

    “I just recommend with people, personal relationship with God, praying to God, saying, I want to be good ... and then all of a sudden you're being given, like, intel and stuff ... it's never wrong. And it's. It's God.”
    — Alex ([48:02])

6. Misogyny, Military Paranoia & Reactionary Worldviews

• [75:34–91:36]
  • Tucker rails against “self-hating whites” and “crypto gays” in the military; claims vaccine mandates were a means to purge “real men” from the armed forces.
  • Claims female leadership causes war, referencing dubious/not applicable historical anecdotes (e.g. governor’s wives, not leaders themselves).
  • Dan & Jordan’s take:
    • These arguments are profoundly sexist, illogical, and a distraction from real cause-effect in history.
    • The subtext: Defense of white male hierarchy.

7. Free Speech Victimhood and Sandy Hook Revisionism

• [96:14–98:14]
  • Tucker: “You are the victim of the greatest crime against free speech in the last 10 years” (re: Alex’s Sandy Hook lawsuits).
  • Both paint Alex as a persecuted “truth teller,” ignoring actual harm perpetrated.
  • Dan skewers:
    • Tucker’s defense is outrageous; reframing the attack on Alex as a free speech issue is “cosmically egregious.”
    • “If you’re willing to defend as free speech whatever Alex did during Sandy Hook, then Trump is your enemy.”

8. Manipulation, Audience Capture, and Performative Politics

• [62:45–68:08; 74:41–74:59]
  • Discussion of Tucker’s advertising structure: Ads are frontloaded because listeners rarely reach later sections—an admission of content drop-off and a focus on optimizing personal profit.
  • The “conversation” is not an interview, but rather two grifters passing code phrases and talking points back and forth.
  • Both implicitly acknowledge their own bad faith, especially Tucker in his condescension toward audience and even Alex.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tucker’s Noncommittal Theological Evasions

  “I'm not ... I haven't seen it [Peter Thiel's Antichrist lectures]. I have talked to him about it at great length. ... So I would just say I'm not taking a pass on the question. ... I'm for Jesus."
  ([57:05])

• Religion as Political Branding

  "When Tucker says that more people are talking about God, what he means is that he recognizes that God is a brand and that brand is pretty hot right now."
  — Dan ([40:22])

• Banter: “Webbies” Award For Fastest Loss of Steam

  “Can you, can you, can you, can you. ... I think that I'm not Exactly. Sure what you're saying, but I know that you're telling the truth right now.”
  — Tucker failing to riff on Alex’s devil cliche ([42:24–42:33])

• Superpowers & The Continuity Joke

  “I like this as a new thing where we're trying to wake up your ex gene.”
  — Dan ([103:19])

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Important Timestamps

• [01:10] – Bright spots and MacGyver/ant madness
• [07:00] – Shohei Ohtani’s “superhuman” performance anecdote
• [12:08] – Shoutouts to policy wonks and supporters
• [14:24] – Trump’s vaccine dilemma and anti-vax acrobatics
• [24:13] – The flu shot, cancer panic, and debunking vaccine myths
• [48:02] – Alex’s “personal relationship with God” as intel source
• [57:05] – Peter Thiel’s “Antichrist lectures” and Tucker’s evasive response
• [75:34] – Tucker’s fears of the “woke” military and vaccine purges
• [83:13] – Female leadership, violence, and faux historicism
• [96:14] – Tucker on Alex as a free speech “martyr”
• [103:19] – Superpowers, X-gene joke, and outro

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Flow and Tone

Dan and Jordan maintain their trademark irreverent, sarcastic, yet methodical tone. They transition freely between deep factual corrections, analysis of argument tactics, and open mockery of Jones and Carlson’s positions. Their banter is punctuated with in-jokes (“shilajit,” “no claws,” “Webbies”), cultural references, and an ever-present skepticism of far-right demagoguery.

The episode is structured for listeners who want both clear debunkings and a running commentary on the absurdities (and dangers) of contemporary right-wing media.

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Conclusion

This episode of Knowledge Fight offers a rich, at times hilarious, at times sobering look at the currents of conspiratorial, reactionary, and theocratic thought swirling between Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson. Dan and Jordan lay bare how these figures manipulate their audiences, mask their own contradictions, and increasingly abandon substantive content in favor of brand-building and grievance peddling. Listeners are treated to a cutting, comprehensive breakdown of why none of this, in Dan’s words, is “real conversation”—but all of it is revealing of today’s propaganda landscape.

Transcript

[Jordan]

Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert.

[Alex]

Knowledge Fight. Dan and Jordan. I am sweating. Knowledgebody.com. it's time to pray. I have great respect for Knowledge Fight. Knowledge Fight. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys. Knowledge Fight.

[Jordan]

Dan and Jordan.

[Alex]

Knowledge Fight. Need. Need money. Andy in Kansas. Andy and Andy, stop it. Andy in Kansas. Andy in Kansas. It's time to pray. Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding.

[Caller]

Hello, Alex.

[Dan]

I'm a fish color.

[Alex]

I'm a huge fan. I love your room.

[Jordan]

Knowledge Fight.

[Alex]

Knowledge Fight dot com. I love you.

[Dan]

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan.

[Jordan]

I'm Jordan.

[Dan]

Where a couple dudes like to worship at the altar of Selene and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.

[Jordan]

Oh, indeed we are.

[Dan]

Dan Jordan. Dan Jordan.

[Jordan]

Quick question for you.

[Dan]

What's up?

[Jordan]

What's your bright spot today, buddy?

[Dan]

My bright spot? Today we're continuing. It's MacGyver.

[Jordan]

It's MacGyver. All right.

[Dan]

I love this fucking show. So here's the deal, okay? I've described to you some of the episodes of MacGyver up to this point.

[Jordan]

Yes, you have.

[Dan]

And how would you characterize the antagonists on this show? The people who he's going up against?

[Jordan]

I mean, I would go probably like Face, but in front of an organization, you know, like, I'm the evil guy, but actually I work for Bluegay Boogie.

[Dan]

Evil corporation maybe, but like a terrorist group of some sort. Someone with an evil plan.

[Jordan]

Borderline comic book villain. But pull it back to be, like a factory owner.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So I'm on episode six.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And here's what happens. He gets a call from a buddy of his who's in the Amazon.

[Jordan]

Okay?

[Dan]

Birds are scared. And so this guy.

[Jordan]

Birds are scared.

[Dan]

Birds are scared.

[Jordan]

Okay?

[Dan]

This guy in the Amazon is like, I got to call in MacGyver. We got to see what the fuck's going on.

[Jordan]

Birds are scared. End of sentence.

[Dan]

There's something going on deep in the jungle. And, you know, you obviously are thinking, well, there's going to be some sort of a mining operation. There's going to need whatever.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

MacGyver's got to kick some ass.

[Jordan]

Of course.

[Dan]

Placate the birds.

[Jordan]

Otherwise he's just an ornithologist, right?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So he goes and helps his buddy. They end up finding this guy named Trumbo who runs a chocolate plantation in the middle of the Amazon because they need A guide to take them into the Amazon. And the local authorities, no one will allow. Guide. So they gotta go talk to Trumbo.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

They go to this guy's chocolate place. He eventually agrees to take them himself. So they go on a trek into the Amazon.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

To find the big villain of the episode. Ants.

[Jordan]

All right, so he is an ornithologist.

[Dan]

It's a bunch of ants.

[Jordan]

Wait, so there's a bunch of ants?

[Dan]

Yes.

[Jordan]

Okay, so how is MacGyver's specific skill set going to apply to a lot of ants?

[Dan]

Well, you know, they try a bunch of things.

[Jordan]

What? Naturally.

[Dan]

So, yeah, everybody runs away from the. The plantation because they're scared of the ants.

[Jordan]

Are they the kind of ants that are just like. They'll just overflo. Okay.

[Dan]

All right, Miles.

[Jordan]

Just unstoppable.

[Dan]

It's MacGyver, his buddy trips and falls into the ants.

[Jordan]

Dead. Eaten. Immediately. Immediately. All right, so there's a lot of ants. We're talking about scary ants.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

This has happened before. There have been ant landslides or whatever.

[Dan]

But I don't think they kill you that fast.

[Jordan]

I don't know. I've never been eaten by ants before.

[Dan]

Right. It's. It's a terrifying situation. And so MacGyver and Trumbo have to figure out how to protect the plantation. Sure. And so their first option is to flood some of the stuff, some of the.

[Jordan]

Build, like a moat thing. Yeah, right, right, right. I know that. Ants are too smart for your fucking moat. They can build boats out of ants.

[Dan]

No, no, no, not quite.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

What they do is they end up going up the trees and biting leaves off the trees, which they then use as boats to go across the wall.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Brilliant. The masterminds.

[Dan]

So MacGyver constructs a flamethrower.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dan]

That's at bay once they have crossed the.

[Jordan]

Right, right. Naturally. So they, of course, build rock walls.

[Dan]

No, the fire. They run out of fuel for the fire.

[Jordan]

Okay, that'll happen.

[Dan]

And so MacGyver has to construct a suit, a protective suit, and make a bomb to blow the dam that will flood the entire valley and drown all the ants. All right, so he manages to do that.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

And they save the chocolate plantation.

[Jordan]

Now, I put this forth to you. Perhaps there should have been a consultation with somebody about whether or not it's more important for the ants to be there than the chocolate plantation.

[Dan]

Yeah, I think there's a question of it being a natural thing. Natural force.

[Jordan]

Excuse me, Mr. McIver, can you please tell me the story again? You built a Suit. And then blew up our dam unilaterally without talking to anybody.

[Dan]

In this case, we, the world, we are expected to understand the dam only exists in order to facilitate the chocolate plantation.

[Jordan]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Dan]

So it's not screwing over any other local agriculture contained.

[Jordan]

Okay, I got you. I got you.

[Dan]

Yeah. It's a sacrifice that they make in order to save the plantation from the ants.

[Jordan]

Fair enough. My. My concerns are taken care of.

[Dan]

It's fucking insane that it's ants.

[Jordan]

Why? Why? Why, MacGyver? Why? What?

[Dan]

He's friends with the bird guy?

[Jordan]

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. But what else does this guy call MacGyver about? Everything. Does this guy call MacGyver? Right. Like a drop of the hat, like MacGyver?

[Dan]

Yeah. Why him? Why him? I don't know, but it's great.

[Jordan]

And why not? Once you find out it's ants, why not find a. Why not call an ant guy?

[Dan]

Well, the guy who's, who calls in MacGyver is like, really excited about it being ants. And he starts taking pictures of them.

[Jordan]

Right?

[Dan]

Which is what leads to his death. Paying attention falls into the answer the fool. Also, Trumbo is played by a guy named David Ackroyd.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Dan]

I was sure. Was Dan Aykroyd's brother not related? Nope.

[Jordan]

Unrelated.

[Dan]

Crazy.

[Jordan]

Just coincidence.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Jordan]

There are more than one name, but Ackroyd. I've never heard it but once.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So what's your bright spot?

[Jordan]

My bright spot, Dan, is.

[Dan]

Wait. Sorry.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

No kisses?

[Jordan]

No kisses, no smooches? Not even once? Well, I mean, listen, it's all, dudes. You're not going to want to kiss those ants.

[Dan]

Yeah. And it's all. It's all like, dudes. He's helping.

[Alex]

Really? Yeah.

[Jordan]

That makes sense.

[Dan]

Yeah. Yeah. At one point, he does save a villager who's trapped under a boat. And she was a woman. Like, oh, he's going to kiss that.

[Jordan]

Not the time. Not the time. We're still running away from ants.

[Dan]

Yeah. Too many.

[Jordan]

Too many ants in the. In the business.

[Dan]

But. I'm sorry I interrupt.

[Jordan]

Sure. No, no, no problem. My bright spot is that there's a guy who plays baseball. His name is Shohei Ohtani. I heard him right now. He's very good at baseball. But he did something that is not possible. He played in the fourth game of the National League Championship Series. This is the game that they were up 3 to nothing. This is the game that would take them to the World Series. This would send them to the World Series. Shohei Ohtani was pitching in this game, naturally, he was also hitting because he's the only player in the world who can do that. So the first thing he did in the first inning was he struck out the side. Right. Three guys gone. Right. And then the next thing he did, the very next thing he did because he's the pitcher and the leadoff hitter was he struck out the side and then he went and hit a home run.

[Dan]

That's embarrassing. That's, that's, that's disrespectful.

[Jordan]

It is very disrespectful. It's very disrespectful. But now let me tell you what happens over the next several innings. Okay? He strikes out seven more people.

[Dan]

That's good.

[Jordan]

In six innings, no runs. And then he hits two more home runs.

[Dan]

Jesus.

[Jordan]

The man hit three home runs through six innings, struck out 10, won the game by himself.

[Dan]

He's like the MacGyver of baseball.

[Jordan]

It's insane. It's not possible to do that stuff.

[Dan]

Do you think that he's bored?

[Jordan]

No. No. Because not only, not only that, not only did he do those things, he didn't just, you know, because there have been pitchers who through sheer luck or adrenaline or whatever, who have won game single handedly in the past in postseason.

[Dan]

Sure.

[Jordan]

Throw 9 inning complete game shutout, hit a home run, won the game. That whole thing.

[Dan]

Jeff Supon, something like that.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Maybe one of those Cardinals guys.

[Jordan]

I think it would be like, it would be somebody hit a home run that just barely makes it out 348ft, something like that. Shohei Ohtani hit a baseball outside of the baseball park.

[Dan]

Right. And it's one of three home runs.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah. The total of which they, they put it together was like 1400ft. Between the three of them, they're inventing new ways to say he hit the ball really far. They have to try and create new forms of like, oh, well, if you lined up all of his home runs back to back to back, it would be a mile.

[Dan]

And we've already had Bugs Bunny do the like stickers.

[Jordan]

Absolutely.

[Dan]

So you can't do that. That's fucking nuts.

[Jordan]

It is. It's genuinely nuts. There is, there's like, you couldn't imagine if, if you had written something like if Carl Sandberg or Ring Lardner was writing a like, baseball player sells his soul to the devil to become the greatest baseball player of all time. The devil would make him a really good hitter. Because to do both of those things would be unrealistic.

[Dan]

It really seems to like, he's going to have some real bad medical problems just from a physics standpoint of, like, how much strain that's putting on your arm to pitch that much and hit.

[Jordan]

I think he might be made of solid steel, Man. He's a tree.

[Dan]

He's either a tree or he's. He's still young. Like, he could. He could hit 30 and then just be like, you're dead.

[Jordan]

He's 31.

[Dan]

Oh, fuck.

[Jordan]

Yeah. No, he's unstoppable.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Jordan]

He is an unstoppable, perfect hitting move. He's. It's ridiculous.

[Dan]

Wow.

[Jordan]

You shouldn't be able to do those things.

[Dan]

Well, good for him.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it's great. Good for him.

[Dan]

Breaking records.

[Jordan]

The greatest to ever do a thing.

[Dan]

But that's what I'm saying is at a certain point, you kind of have to start to get bored unless someone can step up to be as good as you.

[Jordan]

There is. There was a moment when he hit his second home run, which was on a pitch that was about a foot inside off the plate. Like, you can't hit that pitch for a hit, let alone a thousand feet of it. But there was a moment, and he hit it and his shoulders slumped like that, and he just looked up at it like, God damn.

[Dan]

I'm sorry. I'm so good.

[Jordan]

I'm too good at this. Right?

[Dan]

There's a point where apologies. There's a point where humility doesn't work anymore and you have to turn into, like, a huge narcissist, crazy person.

[Jordan]

I mean, there was the Michael Jordan game where he's the. You know, famously. He's just going, I don't even know what's going on here, buddy. I'm just. Great. What are you going to do? Right. That was very much where we're at with Shohei.

[Dan]

Yeah. And we saw what happened with Jordan.

[Jordan]

He went crazy.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

But this guy, he's got a dog. Jordan had a dog, but he didn't like him. Yeah, his dog was called gambling.

[Dan]

Yeah. So, Jordan, today we have an episode to go over. It is the conclusion of Alex and Tucker having their little bowl session.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And I was thinking about maybe not covering this, but I'm deeply committed to giving you superpowers, and I really. I really want to see this thing through.

[Jordan]

God damn. So I take it it got a lot better.

[Dan]

It's good.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So we're going to talk about this, but first, let's take a little moment to say hello to some new wonks.

[Jordan]

Ooh, that's a great idea.

[Dan]

So first, thanks for keeping my Grad school commute from Casey to Columbia. Entertaining. Compared to what you all do, an archeology thesis is a piece of cake. Regards, future curator of the Smithsonian secret nephilim bones. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk.

[Alex]

I'm a policy wonk.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much.

[Dan]

Columbia Como.

[Caller]

Hey.

[Dan]

Go down to power plant, over. That's across from the Taco Bell on Providence. Next. My spouse is currently receiving top surgery. As I type this, I'm listening to your episode 1068 to distract my anxiety. I would love to get a shout for a shout out for I guess you could say my titty loser baby. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk.

[Alex]

I'm a policy wonk.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much.

[Dan]

Thank you. And to Andy in Cincinnati. So proud of you for going back to school. Sorry for making you spend half of your free time listening to the worst ever Nazi shit to figure out what mint chips whole deal is. And I pray one day they may be free from that curse entirely. I am doubtful. Thank you so much. And how. Policy wonk.

[Alex]

I'm a policy wong.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much.

[Dan]

Thank you. And we got second credit to the mix, Jordan. So thank you so much to. This subscription is being paid for by a collective comprised of one hen, two ducks, three squatting geese, four Limerick oysters, five corpulent porpoises, pairs of Don Alzevaro's tweezers, 6,000 Macedonians in full battle array, eight brass monkeys from the ancient sacred crypts of Egypt, nine apothetics, sympathetic diabetic old men on roller skates with a marked propensity towards procrastination and sloth. And 10 lyrical, spherical, diabolical denizens of the deep who all stall through the corner of the quo of the quay of the quivery, all at the same time. Thank you so much. You are now a technocrat.

[Alex]

I'm a policy wonk.

[Jordan]

Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant.

[Alex]

Someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop. Daddy Sharp. Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black action. He's a loser. Little, little titty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce. Jesus Christ.

[Dan]

So thrilled to have Gary Busey on board. That's awesome.

[Jordan]

That was. That was. You need to hear it to actually understand. Because I read a little bit of that and I was like, well, I don't know what's going on here.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

But then the moment you started reading it, I was like, oh, fuck. Good call.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Jordan]

Well, Done.

[Dan]

So we jump back in after Alex's bathroom break, which ended our last episode, and they talking a little bit about the COVID and vaccines and stuff.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

And this is a important issue to touch on because Trump just recently got another COVID vaccine.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And the flu vaccine.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And it seems like he shouldn't have done that. Well, based on all their beliefs.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Oh, well.

[Caller]

So Trump got the Vax, the COVID vaccine.

[Alex]

That's right. Last week, he bragged when he got his medical exam that he got the new experimental flu shot and the Pfizer booster, which his own HHS had basically said don't give to pregnant women and women and adults, and that they've proven erases your immune system, is absolutely horrible. But after he had Albert Borla a few weeks ago at the White House praising Pfizer, he's now gone on and gotten it as a PR stunt. So that really pissed off Trump's constituents. And we, you know, we hope he didn't really take it because we need the big guy.

[Caller]

Well, yeah, and I think there's. Unless I'm misreading it, there seems like a legitimate and very large study out of South Korea that shows a connection between the COVID vaccine cancer because of the effects on the human immune system.

[Alex]

And turns it off.

[Dan]

So the anti Vax folks have a new fun study to tout that allegedly shows that the COVID vaccine is killing everyone, but it's just another sloppy piece of inconclusive bullshit. This is a retrospective study that looked at people who got the COVID vaccine a year later and tried to assess relative risks of developing cancer and found that for many cancer types, the risk was significantly increased. On the surface, this looks like something that works for Alex's argument, but it's a bad paper for a number of reasons. The first is that the authors didn't consider confounding variables like people having family histories of cancer, and that would change things a lot. The second is that idiots like Alex and Tucker who are promoting the study don't take into account the phenomenon of surveillance bias. If you're somebody who's getting Covid vaccines and boosters, then it stands to reason that you're somebody who's making contact with medical professionals. The more interaction you have with doctors, the more likely it is that they'll diagnose something that might have been missed otherwise. So people who got more medical care often see increased diagnoses for things that other people would have but not notice until the problems get severe. Experts who have analyzed this study say that this dynamic explains the increase in cancer diagnoses that the paper shows. There's no evidence presented that there's a causal connection between vaccination and cancer, and Alex is just making up that the vaccine shuts off your immune system. If that were the case, we would have seen an almost unimaginable level of death all around the world, which Alex has been promising is just around the corner for, like, the last four years.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I don't know if Alex is a true believer in this shit, but Tucker absolutely got the COVID vaccine. And it's a pretty damning look for Trump to get his shots at this point. He made RFK the head of Health and Human Services, and his entire fanbase wants him to hang Dr. Fauci. The anti vaccine hysteria is such a huge part of Trump's appeal, so it should send a pretty clear message to his fans that he thinks they're stupid when he gets a Covid and flu shot in October 2025. Stoking the flames of anti science shit helps Trump because it invalidates and weak weakens authority figures who aren't him. So he's happy to do it, even if that means advising people to do things that are detrimental to their own health. But when it comes to his health, he's gonna listen to the experts, not the dipshits that he's elevating and subjecting the public to. Come on. Yeah, come on, guys, you get it.

[Jordan]

That's. Listen, hey, you become king to get the good shit, right? Like, if I'm king, I'm not gonna wallow. The same with you. Yeah, you fucking idiots made me king. But that's because you're dumb.

[Dan]

Yeah. Rich people are still gonna have access to safe abortions, regardless of what laws they pass that other people are gonna be subjected to. Rich people and powerful people are gonna have vaccines no matter what.

[Jordan]

It's the fun thing about being rich and powerful, right? Yeah.

[Dan]

They want to hurt others.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're great.

[Dan]

So maybe, yeah, Trump fucking bragging about getting a shot.

[Jordan]

Of course he is the bragger. Oh, my God.

[Dan]

Maybe it was a fake shot.

[Jordan]

Come on. Wait, wait, wait.

[Dan]

Maybe it's fake.

[Jordan]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. If you say that for serious in real life, you have to then consider all the possible ways that it could be fake and the reasons for it being fake, and none of those make any sense whatsoever.

[Dan]

Well, the one big distinction I would see is whether Trump knows that it's fake or not.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Like, if he knows it's fake, yeah. Then he's trying to get people to take a dangerous thing by pretending to get it himself, which is murder. That's real bad. Yeah. If he doesn't know, then somebody's trying to murder him. Right. Anyway.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

Could be fake.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Caller]

I don't understand that. Do you think it was real?

[Alex]

If I had to speculate. Not a conspiracy theory, pure speculation. Borla was there a few weeks ago. He did that $75 million deal to lower drug costs, which is a good thing. Trump got. And they said, hey, we got some bad pr. Why don't you say you took the shot? But I'd have to purely speculate. You talked to Trump a lot more than anybody else. Pretty much. So maybe you can ask him why the hell he did that.

[Caller]

Do you know anyone who has taken. I mean, who would take that? I mean, it's poison, obviously. Poison.

[Alex]

I think there's 2% uptake on the boosters now, and it's no longer recommended by hhs, which means it has no longer has liability protection. So again, that is Trump who would say at the rallies, oh, take your shot. They would boo him. So he quit doing it. And so it's things he does like that. And then some Trump supporters think we're in a cult. They go, you don't criticize anything Trump does. No, all the time we do. Like when Bondi said, let's pass hate speech laws. That's what the ADL wants. Southern Private Law center. People got pissed. She reversed herself that day. So, no, it's good for the constituents. When we see something wrong. We put Trump in there to carry out our operations to restore the public, not to take experimental gene attack.

[Caller]

I mean, I'm sure you've had times in your life where you've been off on some lunatic tangent and people you love, members of your family are like, hey, we love you. Don't. It certainly happened to me a million times. People I love are like, I don't think it's a good idea, whatever you're doing. And you're grateful for that, right?

[Alex]

Well, that's absolutely so. But if I smoke a cigar, a few, you know, here and there is a bad for you, but you smoke a lot of them. You'll, you know, you might get lip cancer or something.

[Caller]

Really?

[Alex]

I'm not up.

[Caller]

I don't believe that.

[Alex]

I'm not here saying, kids, you should smoke cigars. You know, the difference is Trump is up there doing it. So it's just another one of those things he does. Like, I think I'll give cruise missiles to Ukraine. It's makes you wonder what's going on sometimes. I'm glad we don't have Kamala Harris. Let's get that straight. But I am a little concerned.

[Dan]

Lesser of two evil stuff, but hey, I'm the guy who's all about principles. These guys are so desperate for any way to pretend Trump didn't get the vaccine because what it implies, it implies that he knows that the anti Vax people are stupid and he's exploiting them for their support and power that they provide. This point Alex makes about Pam Bondi is interesting, though, because he says that she came out in favor of hate speech laws, but then got severe pushback from the base, so she stopped the stuff that same day. He's talking about her interview after the Charlie Kirk murder where she talked about Josh Shapiro's house being firebombed and how her Department of Justice was going to go after hate speech, which was not protected speech.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

That was on September 15th. And she did get a lot of heat for that, which led to a tweet that she posted the next day where she tried to do damage control. In the tweet, she says, quote, hate speech that crosses the line into threats of violence is not protected by the First Amendment.

[Caller]

It.

[Dan]

It's a crime. For far too long, we've watched the radical left normalize threats, call for assassinations, and cheer on political violence. That era is over. She's entirely incorrect about the First Amendment, and actually it reflects this is her doubling down on the call to punish speech as opposed to what Alex is pretending she did.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

On October 8th, she was sitting right next to Trump at the antifa propaganda event where she said that he said that he took away the freedom of speech involved in flag burning. Right. She's illustrated a consistent ignorance and hostility towards free speech. And Alex would have that position if he was anything other than a spineless hack who's in the pocket of power.

[Jordan]

Right. Well, there is a slight difference. Right. When she said it originally, she didn't make it clear that some hate speech is totally okay.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jordan]

Second time around, she did make it pretty clear, like, we're only going after hate speech. That's like, hey, these Nazis are bad. Right?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

When you make sure that you include a little thing about the radical left in there, you're fine.

[Jordan]

Everybody's fine.

[Dan]

When you talk about, like, hey, we're gonna go after hate speech, Josh Shapiro, a Democrat's house, was firebombed.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

It makes the Nazis worried that you're.

[Jordan]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're gonna hold us accountable for this shit, right? Yeah.

[Dan]

So I guess it is kind of her going back on in a way.

[Jordan]

In a way, I think it's more like clarifying a point. Like, just to be clear, all bets are off. But at those imaginary left people, that.

[Dan]

Clarification doesn't help if you have a problem with her position on speech.

[Jordan]

Right, right, right.

[Dan]

It really does clear things up and, you know, address your concerns. If it's really just like, hey, our side should just be able to do everything.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I imagine. I imagine that it could go south if. If somebody in the Nazis was like, hey, everybody, we're going to really clamp down on violence. I bet they would be like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Dan]

So Alex says, like, you know, Trump, he does this weird stuff, like give missiles to Ukraine.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Get vaccines.

[Jordan]

And seems high stakes for them to just be, quote, weird stuff.

[Dan]

He says he doesn't like free speech, all this strange stuff.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

So what's up with that? What is up with that?

[Jordan]

What is up with that?

[Caller]

What is going on?

[Alex]

Well, everybody knows Trump's really weird in a good way, in a lovable way, but he does so much good and then he does so many just really bizarre zigs and zags that sometimes you just have to ask what's happening. But you know that video over a year ago of him and Kennedy, right before Kennedy endorsed him a year and a half ago, that somebody shot of him on speakerphone, Kenny, with Trump. And Trump's like, well, maybe it is too big a shot and maybe the kids shouldn't take it. Maybe you're right, Neil. Bobby, that's the Trump we need, not the Trump. Oh, look, I took my shot. It's so great. Plus, the flu shot, they admit, look this up. They've never in 50 years, the flu shot, predicted the right mutation for that year's flu, and it lowers your immune system to the next year's flu.

[Caller]

The flu shot paralyzed a relative of mine, a close relative of mine, briefly paralyzed, waist down, paralyzed briefly, period.

[Alex]

That a flu shot did that fact paralyzed Kennedy's larynx.

[Caller]

Yeah. So I don't know what. And is there any evidence the flu shot, you know, reduces overall mortality?

[Alex]

You can look this up. It has. It has never worked. It is an absolute, total fraud. They've never picked the right mutation for it. And so if it's not the exact mutation, it doesn't work.

[Caller]

So over. But over the population, there's no evidence that the flu shot which you could get at your grocery store, the nurse's office, or wherever at work, that it has reduced the number overall of dead people in the United States in a given year.

[Alex]

No.

[Dan]

So, Alex, in that clip, he characterized Trump as a liar who changes his positions based on who he's talking to and what he wants to get out of them.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dan]

He's happy to be really worried about the vaccines when he needs RFK to drop out of the race and endorse him. But now not so much. He's an asshole who exploits people even by the description. Alex wants to make it sound better than it is, but he. It's just pretty obvious.

[Jordan]

I don't. I don't know how language can alter the reality in the way that he wants it to.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Like, oh, hey, listen, I know sometimes he does this weird stuff like cut off my feet, you know, I like. And I like feet. You like feet?

[Dan]

I'm pro feet.

[Jordan]

Not too, not too much.

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

He likes feet too much because he stole mine with a knife. But he's not that bad.

[Dan]

It's just a weird.

[Jordan]

Just a weird quirk. He steals people's feet. Ah, what are you going to do?

[Dan]

He needed them at the time.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So Alex has this talking point that they've never correctly predicted the correct mutation for the strain of the flu. And that's just a bullshit anti vax talking point that reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of how annual flu shots are designed. He's acting like it's an all or nothing thing where if they guess the right strain, then the vaccines work, but if they don't, then they do nothing.

[Jordan]

Ah, it sucks.

[Dan]

Flu vaccines in the United States are trivalent, which means that it includes protection from the expected predominant strain of two types of influenza A, which is H1N1 and H3N2, and influenza B. But no vaccine is 100% effective. Given the variety of influenza viruses that are out there in the world and how they mutate, the vaccines are usually about 40 to 60% effective at stopping transmission. And studies have shown a decrease in mortality from the flu of between one third and one half in the time since their introduction, widespread in 1945. One of the reasons that Alex can get away with this sort of lazy propaganda that he puts out is that he can point to the 2014, 2015 flu season, where the vaccine was only about 19% effective. It's believed to be a situation where the vaccine was poorly matched to the circulating strains. But it's important to understand the context behind that. Our flu vaccines don't provide as good of protection against H3N2 because that strain has a higher likelihood of undergoing rapid antigenic changes. The versions of H1N1 and influenza B that researchers are using to plan the vaccine in advance, they're likely to be structurally similar to what they'll look like when the actual flu season arrives. But H3N2 mutates in more ways that interfere with vaccine effectiveness. So when an H3N2 strain of the flu is the most prominent strain in a particular flu season, doctors are already playing at a disadvantage. And it happened that in the 2014, 2015 season, H3N2 was the largest flu strain, and it mutated in the time between the vaccine's creation and the flu season. It was the worst combination of possible circumstances. So it becomes the archetype that Alex pretends reflects every flu season. And it's total bullshit. Yeah, it's. It's just nonsense. And him talking like this to somebody who knew what he was talking about, they would be like, you're an idiot. Yeah, but he's talking to Tucker, so he's like, oh, my God, no shot ever worked.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about, and I still think he's an idiot.

[Dan]

Well, I think you can get some context clues. A thousand episodes of our show.

[Jordan]

Right. But. But second, it is. It is. I understand why it's so hard to communicate to a big structure of the population what they do, because what that is sounds so much like magic, you know? It is. It is very much like, how can I trust you to know so many fucking things? That sounds fake as shit. That sounds fake as shit. It sounds like you made it up. Oh, there's a dominant strain of what? I can't see shit, man. I don't even know if germs are real. That's where we're at. In some places. We're at germ theory might not be real. And you're telling me about antigenic mutations. Of course we're not able to communicate.

[Dan]

Yeah, I mean, like, I think that Alex and Tucker might as well believe that, like, witches work at BSL 4 level labs.

[Jordan]

Absolutely.

[Dan]

Like, it's not science. It's people with cauldrons.

[Jordan]

Yes, Yes. I genuinely think that for a lot of those people, what we just need to do is have two wings of the cdc, one of which wears witch outfits, and then everybody will be like, oh, well, that's the good one for me.

[Dan]

I don't think so. Because I think that. That, you know, you don't want To. I think in health care generally, you don't want to validate people's delusions because generally that ends up spiraling into further trouble. Sure, I agree in a way. Here's how I'm going to put your point. They need better messaging. Better messaging.

[Jordan]

Well, to imagine that, that, that people will just get on board is delusional in and of itself, you know?

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

That's. That's kind of the situation there. People aren't just going to like, oh, oh shit. Well, I didn't know H3N2 was the dominant strain, you know.

[Dan]

Yes. And there's a lot of people who have strong motivations not understand those things, not to get the messaging.

[Jordan]

Yeah, Motivated, unlearning people who have supplement companies. Exactly.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

So anyway, science has been discredited.

[Caller]

So given how obviously discredited science has been in all of it last five years, where normal people are like, I don't know what this is, but I'm against it, wouldn't now be the time to mandate a total halt to any Frankenscience underway where we're trying to create life or clone people or change the human genome?

[Alex]

Gain a function.

[Caller]

Gain a function which is now like universal. Gain of function didn't go away. Gain of function became much more popular.

[Dan]

Science hasn't been discredited. It just looks that way when you listen to lying idiots like Alex who don't know or care about science at all. These dipshits think they see demons. So just on a real ground level, it seems unwise to rely on them for critiques of any scientific thing. They want to create a world where it's not seen as insane to rant about demons. So they engage in fraudulent attacks on the foundations of science which would tell them there aren't demons there. Gain of function research is less common than these guys want to make it seem. And I would guess that neither of them could give a coherent or consistent definition of what it actually is. That being said, having some skepticism about the risk benefit calculation with gain of function research isn't the most unreasonable position for someone to have. The way these guys express that skepticism and all their beliefs around the issue are deeply insane. But a rational person could reasonably have some doubts about whether it was worth it to do this stuff.

[Jordan]

Sure. Just to be clear, I mean, yeah, I. Here's, here's what I say. Go crazy with gain of function. And I don't mean to have a ton of people doing it. I'm meaning what kind of functions can we gain? What else can that can we do anything with these things. What can't they do?

[Dan]

Right. I think that I'm worried because of the way you're saying this and the way that I think Alex and Tucker talk about it.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

They look at it like you're giving a virus a knife.

[Jordan]

Right? Yes, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. I want to see if a virus can just take out a foot. Like what. What can we do here with viruses heavy today. Well, you know, the previous one just kind of rolls over.

[Dan]

I. Yeah, I. Look, I don't. Here's my line.

[Jordan]

Here's your line.

[Dan]

Okay. Lightning and dead people. Sure. If you're doing Frankenstein.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And it's like that.

[Jordan]

Yeah. No. You're against it?

[Dan]

I'm against.

[Jordan]

Okay. All right. Because I thought we were going the very opposite direction.

[Dan]

Well, I have a nuanced take.

[Jordan]

Okay, fair enough.

[Dan]

No government funding.

[Jordan]

No government funding for bring people back to life sewn together with lightning. Yes. Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's fair.

[Dan]

If the. If the private market.

[Jordan]

I don't want my tax dollars going to bring in monsters to life.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Too dangerous.

[Jordan]

Fair enough.

[Dan]

So the US has turned on Big Pharma.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

And that's whatever Trump needs to know.

[Alex]

That the American people have rejected Big Pharma and they're tired of it. And they hate Albert Borla, they hate Anthony Fauci. We don't need to be seeing Albert Bourla, who's just as hated as Fauci at the White House. We need to see Fauci and Albert Borla indicted for the things they've done.

[Caller]

Why not just strip immunity from the vaccine makers? Wouldn't that. We have a system in place that's been in place for life, where if you're making a consumer product that hurts people, you can be sued. And so people who make consumer products try to make them safe because there are consequences to selling poison.

[Alex]

That's exactly what should be done. And that's the 86.

[Caller]

That's, like, simple. That's super simple. Like, why not? It's only been 19. I mean, I remember 1986 was 39 years ago. It's not that hard. This is not like in the Constitution that vaccine makers have, you know, blanket shield immunity.

[Alex]

And now they're calling gene therapies vaccines. You know, they've changed the definition. So now anything they want to inject into you that claims a vaccine with liability protection, well, that's why Kennedy. Removing the recommended status by HHS and fda when you do that it technically removes the protection of the liability protection.

[Dan]

Technically? What are you talking about?

[Jordan]

I have no idea.

[Dan]

He's really hedging his language here. Technically, vaccines aren't the only pharmaceutical products that have liability protection. In fact, most medications that are available on the market have some form of it. You know how commercials for drugs have those long sections where they list off possible negative side effects? That's part of their liability protection?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

All drugs have potential side effects, and you can't sue the drug manufacturer for experiencing one of these side effects. If they were properly disclosed and you were aware of them when you agreed to take the medication.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

If the drug company is lying about possible side effects and hiding the real safety issues with their product, then you can sue them. It's just kind of difficult because of the burden of proof that comes along with, like, showing that this caused the harm. It's a hard lawsuit to make, but you can still sue people.

[Jordan]

Prove I lied, and then prove I did it to hurt you.

[Dan]

Yeah. Big Pharma totally sucks and needs to be regulated much more heavily. But removing liability protections isn't the way to go about that. If we want a medical research industry that can attract the kind of investment it requires to make new, innovative medicines, then they can't be in a position where they can be sued by anyone at any time about anything. If you don't want that, though, like you don't want medical breakthroughs, then you really would want these companies to be bogged down in a ton of legal bullshit.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And that's a position you would expect to hear from people who make millions from supplement sales pushing fake pills on their audience, insisting these are the real cures that the man doesn't want you to know about. Medical innovation is a direct threat to their business model. And forcing these pharmaceutical companies to address mountains of frivolous lawsuits is one of the best ways to remove their competition. Selling colloidal silver and the milk. The. The milk. The colostrum.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And shilajit.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I mean, it's. It's so weird because it's like people are fed up with big Pharma for doing all of the things that our companies do, but because we're unreleg, unregulated, we can just lie about it. You know, like, they're regulated to the point where they have to tell you when they're screwing you over.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. There's a liability protection on Alex's part for the supplements that he sells.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Because there's no rules, right? It is. It Is interesting that there is a competing set of industries in the health care industry, one of which is interested in healing people, but maybe not necessarily curing people. And another which is like, people better stay sick forever because then they will keep buying my shit.

[Dan]

We have one. Well, and. And honestly, they might not be sick to begin with, but I need to convince them they need my shit.

[Jordan]

Exactly.

[Dan]

You have one system that does not work and is wholly corrupt and you have another system that does work and is mostly corrupt.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

So what you need to do is not favor.

[Jordan]

The corruption part needs to be ripped out of there.

[Dan]

Right. And that's never going to happen with the side that doesn't work because without corruption supplement their whole thing collapse. But yeah, you need to work on making the system that does work better.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dan]

Getting rid of liability protection around vaccines.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Is a counterproductive move.

[Jordan]

It's what they. It's what. What I don't want to say they. I want to say in specific, people who are trying to dismantle the public education system do is they put poor administrators into the public schools. So people are like, well, public schools suck. And it's like, no, that guy sucks on purpose.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. The system that is good and robust.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Were run. Right.

[Jordan]

It could work if people did it.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. So more people these days are talking about God?

[Jordan]

More.

[Dan]

Yep. So many.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Caller]

Do you feel a rise in. Do you feel like people are talking about God and spiritual matters more than they did 10 years ago? I mean, clearly they are. Where's that going?

[Alex]

I saw you with a guest a few weeks ago. Talk about this is well known. I talked to everybody that's done it. I haven't done it. Almost everyone that takes dmt, either from the toad or the ayahuasca plant, these creatures show up that look like court gestures or space aliens, different things, and say, sure, there are too many humans. You need to wipe out the population. Then you'll become gods. It's the same message. And they've had groups of people, they've.

[Caller]

Done studies you need to wipe out. You need to kill people so you can become God.

[Jordan]

Shut the up.

[Caller]

You know people who've heard that message?

[Alex]

Oh, absolutely. They've had whole groups of studies that have had group hallucinations of this can.

[Caller]

I mean, I don't know. I'm not the most spiritually sensitive person, I'm hardly a theologian, but if some demon is telling you to kill people so you can become God, like, we can say that's bad, right?

[Alex]

Absolutely.

[Dan]

Yeah, man. Totally. Totally. So There's a rise in talking about God in these people because the right wing political movement in this country has decided to become theocratic. There's no sincere interest in God or Jesus or engaging in a real spiritual practice. Media figures who are promoting right wing politics have just realized that attaching their connection to power to divine right is an effective marketing tool.

[Jordan]

It's worked for a long time.

[Dan]

Yeah. When Tucker says that more people are talking about God, what he means is that he recognizes that God is a brand and that brand is pretty hot right now. There's a God trend among far right idiots and they found that it's easy to sell the idea of religion without having to be constrained by the morality or the teachings of said religion. That's where we are now. That said, I will say, and I'll make this statement publicly. DMT demons who tell you to kill everyone are probably bad influences. I will side with. I'll give Tucker is his props there.

[Jordan]

I mean, listen, if you are taking advice from anyone who appears to you in a drug induced dream, you're in the wrong.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

You're in the wrong. Even if Gene Hackman dies, those are the sacrifices we make.

[Dan]

I think when you take drugs you're capable of having insights. Sure, I think that's possible.

[Jordan]

Sure, sure.

[Dan]

I don't think that listening to entities that you imagine is a great call.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Maybe taking on what they say and thinking about it, maybe.

[Jordan]

I think people just need to really change the music they listen to while they're doing all these drug trips. That's why we have prog rock is so you can see weird shit and not be freaked out by it.

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

That's the whole reason. Yes. Exists.

[Dan]

And bread.

[Jordan]

Exactly.

[Dan]

Yeah. Drop some acid and turn on bread.

[Jordan]

Just fucking listen to those things go beep do and then you'll move on with your life. Jesus.

[Dan]

So this next clip now is for your consideration.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

This is a clip that I would send to the Webbies. Okay.

[Jordan]

I don't know the web.

[Dan]

I don't know who Tucker would qualify for an award. I don't know, like, can't get an Oscar.

[Jordan]

Right, right. Daytime talk show Emmy. Yeah, sure, let's do that.

[Dan]

Some sort of an acting award?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Okay. Because this is amazing. Oh.

[Alex]

They say the devil's greatest trick was convincing the world he didn't exist. I think that's the second biggest trick. I think convincing the world that good doesn't exist is devil's biggest trick. Yes.

[Caller]

Yes. Can you, can you fight? I think that I'm not Exactly. Sure what you're saying, but I know that you're telling the truth right now.

[Dan]

Can you, can you, can you, can you.

[Jordan]

Oh my God.

[Dan]

I think that it was amazing the way that Tucker perfectly captured an awareness that Alex just said a catchphrase.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

And he wanted to double down on it, but immediately realized there's no depth here.

[Jordan]

Nope.

[Dan]

Oh, no. Can you just talk more about that?

[Jordan]

Keep going. Keep going. Yeah, but I jumped in too soon. I jumped in too soon.

[Dan]

Yeah. He is nominated for quickest loss of steam in a podcast host.

[Jordan]

Man. And that was such a good revivalist.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Too. That had that. That was religious. Yeah.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I don't know what you said, but I know it's true.

[Jordan]

I don't know what you said, but I know it's true. Is a great thing to say out loud.

[Dan]

Yeah, it's pretty cool. So they talk a bit about how abortion's bad.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

How everyone's evil.

[Caller]

So the gift is to see good like in that. I do think that's the trick. Because I mean, no one needs a tutorial on evil. It's all around us. It's super obvious. It no longer disguises itself. Abortion for the sake of abortion. Like what is that? What's. It's human sacrifice.

[Alex]

Just Canaanite and the DNC doing abortions.

[Caller]

Inside completely for the sake of abortion. Not to improve the life of the girl or she's a 14 year old rape victim. It's just like no. Abortion is inherently good because it's killing a person.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Caller]

That is all out in the open now. Nobody is confused about his existence. What you don't get a lot of is the recognition that good is in is a more than equal. It's a larger and opposing force. God is bigger than Satan. And you don't get that sense like nobody talks about that. You don't see it.

[Alex]

How.

[Caller]

How do you find that?

[Alex]

So many people purposely get turned off of the system by going to a church, whether it's Catholic, Protestant, any of it. And I'm a very empathic person. So growing up, I would feel at churches and get invited here or there really creeped out. Not by the parishioners, but by the people in the system that are trained. Because.

[Caller]

Oh, that is for sure. Gosh.

[Alex]

Where I feel the strongest demonic energy is. Is. Is. Is in a lot of these big churches and a lot of these big things. Because that's where the devil's sitting his forces and it's energetic and so. But Christ criticized the Pharisees, Sadducees constantly. He said, you go pray up on the hill in front of everybody. You talk about how perfect you are all day, but really you're of your father, the devil in the synagogue of Satan.

[Dan]

So Alex isn't creeped out by big churches. He's just creeped out by big churches that wouldn't like him. He was good friends with Tex Mars, who ran a big white identity church for decades. Alex was a huge promoter of Tim Ballard and the Sound of Freedom. Shit. Even past the point where it was clear that Ballard was a fucking monster. For most of his career, he was broadcast on Christian shortwave frequency, wwcr. And if Alex's imaginary numbers about his audience are correct, he would be the pastor of the world's largest evangelical program. Yeah, Alex doesn't get creeped out by demonic energy at churches. He just doesn't like it when other people are using religion in ways he can't profit from. That's it.

[Jordan]

Religion's about the money. What are you guys doing?

[Dan]

It's a brand.

[Jordan]

What are you guys doing?

[Dan]

Yeah, you're. You're using this brand that I feel ownership of in order to do other things, and I don't get a piece.

[Jordan]

So here's my question, all right? We're dealing with very serious men who know about the hidden secrets of the universe, right? So when you get an abortion, right, and the dead baby goes to heaven, what does it. Does it look like a zygote still? Like, does it remain in the stage of gestation? Is it. Does it bring an amniotic sac with it? Is it. Is it stuck there? Or do you see, like, a different aged version of what that zygote could have become?

[Dan]

Well, I don't want to tip my hand about another subject that comes up later, but the subject of Peter Thiel's Antichrist lectures comes out great. And I did read a bit of it.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

A bit of the Guardian published a bunch of the.

[Jordan]

A bunch of his lectures.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Okay, so he's the Antichrist.

[Dan]

No.

[Jordan]

Oh, okay.

[Dan]

No, but he has some thoughts.

[Jordan]

Okay, good, great. I'm sure that they're good and should absolutely be in the richest man's mind.

[Dan]

Well, the reason that I bring this up is because one of the things he speculates is that when you die, you show up in heaven at age 33.

[Jordan]

At age 33. What a great age.

[Dan]

So maybe the aborted fetuses show up in heaven at 33.

[Jordan]

I'm going to be real. I'm going to be honest with you. I've been kind of on a fitness kick for the past eight months or so. I look a lot better than I did at 33. Can I stick with 38?

[Dan]

Nope. 33 is the ideal age.

[Jordan]

I should have fucking done it. How did I. How was I supposed to know?

[Dan]

Right. But also, is it an ideal version of you at 33, or was it the real where you were? Because I'm going to. If that's the case, I'm going to be back into booze in heaven.

[Jordan]

At what point do you just allow me to pick a skin of the year? You know, like, we're. We're like in the. In the closet. I'm just going through, like, ooh, 22 looks nice. And I put it on, you know. But what are we talking about?

[Alex]

Right?

[Jordan]

What are we talking about with the zygote?

[Dan]

I don't know. I think, quite frankly, Peter Thiel is unfortunately the only person who has given me a direct answer on this.

[Jordan]

That's fair.

[Dan]

So that's all I have to offer. That's fair. So you were saying these are serious men who know about the hidden secrets of the universe.

[Jordan]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dan]

And so when Alex is talking about God.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

Tucker, he should recognize he's talking to a baby.

[Alex]

That's really where it all is. And it comes down to your spiritual inclination. But I just recommend with people, personal relationship with God, praying to God, saying, I want to be good. I want to recognize truth. I want to know what truth is. I want to open myself up to you. I'm an imperfect. I repent for what I've done. And I want you to cleanse me and then show me the truth. And then show me how to be a better person. And then show me after that, what. What the mission is you have for me. And literally, if you do that through a process, it may take days, may take months, may take years.

[Jordan]

Wait, what?

[Alex]

Then the adventure begins, and then all of a sudden you're being given, like, intel and stuff, like. And like, literally just you have to learn to go with it. It's never wrong. And it's. It's God, and. And it's there, and it's your personal relationship. And then obviously, people get this relationship. They all want to teach other people and. And God says, get together in groups. That's great. But Christ didn't try to go get the Sadducees and the Pharisees, the priest class, to join him. He said their minds were closed. He went to the prostitutes and the tax collectors and the robbers, the thieves, because they were Already outcast. But that's where he found people that were already under evil's control but weren't arrogant about it, who were looking for a way out. And so, I mean, I think that's really what it comes down to, is a spiritual relationship with God.

[Dan]

Tucker has to be so embarrassed to just have to nod along with this. Alex is sitting there explaining that there's a recruitment process into God's special forces, and there might be a waiting period where you aren't getting the secret intel and missions from God, but if you do it right, that will come.

[Jordan]

Could take a few years.

[Dan]

Don't worry. This is the kind of stuff that you should understand is only said by children and scammers. Alex also seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding about Jesus reaching out to the outcasts of society. It seems like today what Alex's entire political ideology revolves around is punishing the types of people Jesus would have hung out with while reaching out to and trying to win over the sanctimonious elites.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dan]

Alex spends so much time covering for people like Tucker or Elon who are insanely rich, stuck in their ways, and beyond reach. At the same time, he advocates for using the power of the state against the most vulnerable groups of people who are the most in need of grace and generosity. So I think he just doesn't get it, or he gets it and he's evil.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's really, really hard. That's the. That's one of the hardest things for a lot of religious people with the. With the whole Jesus, because if you take it as a whole, then kind of what he's saying is, if everybody's equal sinners in the eyes of the Lord, we are all the same. Those guys are more fun than you. So I'm going to hang out with them.

[Dan]

Hmm. I don't know if that was it.

[Jordan]

It's a strange. It's a strange lesson to learn, but it's there.

[Dan]

I don't. I don't know if that's fully what Jesus was all about. He just liked a good party.

[Jordan]

They were so much more fun.

[Dan]

I don't disagree with that.

[Jordan]

Did you see the painting of the Last Supper? They're all on the same side. You can't even have a good time.

[Dan]

Well, I mean, that's just staging, you know, like that's, you know, that's like a TV thing, you know, like it makes sense. Yes, I think, look, obviously part of it, sure. People are more fun.

[Jordan]

They're more fun.

[Dan]

Yeah. But another part of it is. You know, I didn't come to convert the pious.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Or whatever, you know, like, come on, man. Yeah, there's a piece of it.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that's there.

[Dan]

So religion. Yep. Inside job. I think that Alex means to say that religion is a process that happens within you. Sure. But he accidentally says that it's an inside job.

[Alex]

Oh, really? It's an inside job. They've got to somehow open up the channel to God and then they'll see everything that's happening and then God will give them a message and a mission of what they should do. And I don't want to say all churches are bad because there's a lot of good people in the churches regardless. It's just that the last 120 years, the Rockefeller foundation, the ecumenical movement and all of that has really moved into the churches. We see that with all the rainbow flags and all, you know, the famous cathedrals in England now festooned with all the leftists, you know, graffiti and garbage. I mean, it's been captured is my point. But people can't get turned off by that and say, well, God's dead. No, no, Satan has occupied the so called temples. But, but, but God isn't in the temple. God is inside us.

[Caller]

Do the temples get torn down? Like, did the last vestiges of the old civilization get erased and, and Christians start anew? Like, what is this? How does this unfold?

[Jordan]

With iPhones, I think, I mean, I.

[Alex]

Think that's up to how God influences everybody. I think we could over time retake those things. But the Satanist and the leftist, the power hungry, they think if they can take over the skin of something and occupy it.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Alex]

That then they can fool people that are looking for God, but that's actually triggering the great awakening. So I think some of the buildings get torn down, some of the buildings get retaken, but at the end of the day, God's temple is with us.

[Caller]

It doesn't matter.

[Alex]

So it doesn't matter.

[Caller]

Right. So Westminster Abbey is not where God lives.

[Alex]

No, no.

[Dan]

That's so important to remember that we don't need to tear down churches. Yes, that is good to remember, I suppose.

[Jordan]

You know, here's the thing about prophets and psychics and all that stuff. We all know this. They're no good when you need them. No, you know, like I'm asking you a direct question. What's going on? What are we doing? Do we tear it down? What's going on? And he's like, it depends. No, that's not what you're For God talks to you.

[Dan]

Yeah. All Alex can credibly say in this position is that's not my mission.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

God has not enlisted me on the secret intel, and maybe it's on a need to know basis. Maybe someone else has gotten that mission, but I have not. Yeah, I guess that's the only answer that makes sense.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Really, all that they're talking about here is Alex wants. And Tucker, they want a more fundamentalist version of Christianity to be more prominent.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dan]

They do not like the idea that a more tolerant and accepting version of Christianity has become more mainstream over the last decades, and they want to revert back to conquest.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, a lot of people thought that the Ayatollah Khomeini taking over for in the Iranian revolution was good for women. So I think that they could probably be good.

[Dan]

They could pull it off.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I think so.

[Dan]

So Alex has some spirits in him and not. Not booze, although at times these are the. Sometimes the devil comes into him and.

[Alex]

I get tempted by evil. You know, sometimes, like a devil jumps into me. And I mean, by that, I'm just busy. I'm tired. I'm. Whatever. And I catch myself and I'm like, whoa, whoa. You know, for a minute I was like, you know, turning into everything I'm trying to fight. So I'm not up here on some high horse, like, you know, like, I've got all the answers and I'm perfect. Because anybody empathic can, you know, tune into different frequencies and, yes, things that are happening, but at the end of the day, your heart's what matters. You know, King David did a lot of bad things and sent his best buddy off to get killed. He was less than for his wife, but he really repented. And God said, you're my friend. So at the end of the day, it's where you point your soul.

[Dan]

Alex can't handle the idea that he might be wrong sometimes and that he may do things that hurt other people. That reality is so painful to him that he has to give up his own ability to control his actions. Everything good he does is because of himself, and he deserves credit for doing those things. But when he does something bad, it's because a devil jumped into it. He's very able to say, I'm not a perfect person. But the imperfection that he has is the result of the demon swaying him, not because he's a bad person who's motivated by greed and functions, by lying. He's willing and excited to confess to abstract, meaningless sins. Because they allow him to look contrite and like a pious person. But in reality, those confessions are just meant to mask the real ways that he's imperfect.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And that is that he's a bad person, doesn't care, and operates in an intentionally harmful way.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

Also, Tucker just did that interview with Lee Strobel where he was pretty clear that demons can't enter people who are sincerely Christian because the Holy Spirit is taking up the space where they would go.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

I guess we have to conclude that either Lee was making that up, or Alex isn't really a Christian.

[Jordan]

He's who we need to ask about the size of aborted fetuses in heaven.

[Dan]

Lee Strobel.

[Jordan]

Yeah. He clearly has some idea of where souls fit.

[Dan]

Or we could ask that kid who pretended to go to heaven.

[Jordan]

Equally good answers. Yeah.

[Dan]

He's been there.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

We shaped being there. So I told you that Peter Thiel and his lecture would come up.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Dan]

And here is where that. That is brought up. And Tucker's response about this is so funny.

[Alex]

While we're on theology. Exactly. While we're on theology. What do you think of Peter Thiel's whole Antichrist lecture?

[Caller]

You know, I'm not. I haven't seen it. I have talked to him about it at great length. I didn't. I think it's really interesting. I'm not. I didn't really get to the punchline on that. I don't. So the question everyone, you know has is, okay, who's the Antichrist? I think it's. Maybe there's more than one.

[Alex]

I don't know. System.

[Caller]

Right. So I. So I would just say I'm not taking a pass on the question. I would, but I don't. This is so far out of my depth. I mean, I'm just sort of at the I'm for Jesus stage of things. But I'm glad that there's a conversation about it.

[Dan]

Tucker sure sounds diplomatic about Peter Thiel's lecture on the Antichrist. Seems like he kind of recognizes how much of a softball that is for him to scream about, but he knows he can't because it's teal. One wonders how much restraint these guys would have if Yuval Noah Harari did a lecture about the Antichrist and how much they would support these kinds of ideas being discussed.

[Jordan]

It's almost like they probably wouldn't even read it or engage with it. They would simply see Antichrist and use it for their advantage.

[Dan]

Right. But then they see Peter Thiel and they're like, oh, My God. Rich guy who likes Trump. Yep. Thiel gave a series of four lectures on the Antichrist last month, and he had very strict rules that it was all off the record and people couldn't tell anyone what he said.

[Jordan]

Now, obviously everybody knows what he said now.

[Dan]

Yeah. Because someone recorded the audio and gave it to the Guardian and they published large sections of it. People can dig into that at their own leisure. But suffice it to say, it's stupid and there's a good reason. He was trying to keep it private.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And it's very funny for Tucker to have this ambivalent. This is out of my depth, I don't know kind of answer. He doesn't give those kinds of answers. Yeah, fuck you. You got attacked by a demon.

[Jordan]

I don't know if I got to the punchline. Like, the Antichrist is up in the air, you know, and we're just talking about.

[Dan]

Is in play.

[Jordan]

I don't, you know, we shouldn't be ignoring him, you know, and so it's good that he's out there, but I just don't think I have any personal opinions on him.

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

Whatsoever.

[Dan]

But you do.

[Jordan]

I mean, well, I mean, it's the Antichrist, so I, as a good Christian, you know, obviously I would be against. Not Christ.

[Dan]

You got attacked by a demon. Wow.

[Jordan]

But I mean, it was very. It had. It was more scratchy. It was more scratchy.

[Dan]

You're skeptical of tech billionaires.

[Jordan]

Sure. But I mean, what. What is a tech. Tech billion.

[Dan]

Right. If they like you.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a tech bro. Younaire is what he is.

[Dan]

So I think that the main point is, is, you know, something you touched on there and that is that, like, let's not. Not talk about it. Yeah, we gotta talk about the Antichrist. And that's dumb.

[Alex]

We should be having not just Peter Thiel, everybody. Donald Trump. You and I, we should be discussing Revelation. Once describes really happening now.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Alex]

So we should be having. Oh, God, he's the Peter Tills. The Antichrist. He's talking about the Antichrist. What? Because some people are like, well, what's he doing talking about the Antichrist? Well, I think we should all be talking about it.

[Jordan]

Well, because I think.

[Caller]

I think the temptation is to just ignore the whole topic. I mean, that's the world that I grew up in, where it was just.

[Alex]

Never discussed that one exist.

[Caller]

It was just 100 people's sex lives were a frequent topic of conversation. Everyone was super liberal about that. Like, no one was embarrassed of anything except any question that transcended the material was just considered, like, death was considered totally off limits because it pointed to these obvious questions like, what happens? Then?

[Jordan]

Who the fuck are you?

[Caller]

So I really welcome that. I think all healthy societies face death.

[Alex]

Exactly. People go, oh, you're a Peter Thiel dick writer. No, you should be having a discussion about Antichrist. Why aren't you? And, and so what I got. I haven't seen the presentation.

[Caller]

Oh, so people. I'm sorry, I miss a lot because I. I do think the Internet's demonic. Sorry. I know I work on the Internet, but the whole thing makes me uncomfortable. So I haven't seen any of this. But people are attacking Thiel for this.

[Alex]

Oh, I mean, it's. It's like. Oh, yeah. Well, it's like they haven't even found out what he's saying. I've read some of the articles, haven't. I tried to get tickets, but it was already sold out. But I wanted to see his view on it. But all I know is, is that we should be having a discussion about the Antichrist. We're having one already here. And so what is the Antichrist? I think you need to know the enemy. I think you need to know.

[Caller]

Well, one obvious hallmark from my, you know, frequent but very untutored reading of. Of those books in the New Testament is that the Antichrist reserves the powers of God for himself. He pretends to be God. You know, I'm all powerful. I can, you know, worship me.

[Jordan]

I reserve the right to be all powerful.

[Caller]

By the way, that's most leaders in the world through all time. But that those are signs of evil. You are not God.

[Alex]

No one can totally.

[Caller]

No one can worship you.

[Dan]

Smash cut to Trump autographing Bibles.

[Jordan]

Right? What are we doing?

[Dan]

This is dumb. And if Peter Thiel weren't someone that Alex and Tucker knew they're supposed to support, then doing a lecture series on the Antichrist would be evidence of a person working with the Antichrist. It would be predictive programming, trying to sneakily confess to the public that they're the Antichrist. So the public, could they agree in advance to worship him?

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

I think there's nothing that could be more destructive right now to public safety than for the President to start speculating about who may or may not be the Antichrist. This isn't a productive or safe conversation to be had by politicians. And the idea that Alex and Tucker could possibly want that speaks to how far they've gone, like, from the days of pretending to live in a shared reality.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

They are just lost.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I also wanted to point out how you're not hearing any weird, abrupt commercial breaks in this episode. And that's because I've noticed that Tucker seriously front loads his ads. Most of them are awkwardly jammed into the beginning of the episode. And there's two reasons that podcasts employ this kind of ad strategy.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

The first is that early ads command a higher rate than mid roll or end roll ads. You can charge more for early ads because you have a higher expectation that more people will be seeing them or hearing them. The second reason you would do this touches on that fact and Tucker putting so much ad density at the start of the episodes, it makes me think that he has some metrics that suggest that most people don't make it very far into the show.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

If you have a good 90% of the audience, that makes it 45 minutes into your episodes. You can charge advertisers a decent rate for that. Real estate. But if your numbers show that, like half or more drops off at the one hour mark, it might not be worth it to run ads after that point.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I suspect something like that is going on and Tucker's aware of it.

[Jordan]

Yeah. It. It makes me grateful for what we do. And also reminds me of the thing that is worst about business, is that to be a good business, you have to know the worst things about you. You know, you have to, like, well, nobody listens past an hour.

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

Nobody's. Nobody's there. I don't know why we're talking. Maybe I'll just keep talking and nobody will be listening to this. It's past an hour. Is anybody here?

[Dan]

I have gotten people in the door successfully with clickbait and, like, kind of exciting sounding interviews, but they lose interest fairly quickly because this shit's fucking dumb and they have other things they need to do.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

So I think that probably reflects a lot of his.

[Jordan]

That's dark.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Yep.

[Dan]

So our leaders really are the Antichrist when you think all of them. Well, because they're anti Christ.

[Jordan]

Nice.

[Dan]

They're opposed to Jesus.

[Jordan]

Call it.

[Dan]

And they get scared when someone brings up Jesus.

[Jordan]

That does happen.

[Caller]

The one thing I don't like about the Antichrist conversation is it makes it sound like, you know, Anton lavey is going to show up and, like, start murdering people. And I think it's much more present than that. I mean, I think literally Antichrist means against Christ. Well, who would that include? Most leaders in the world, they hate Jesus. You want to make people upset, start talking about Jesus. I just did this church memorial. I did like some 6 minute talk about Jesus, only Jesus. That's it. I was like, I said to my wife in the shower morning that morning, I was like, I'm not getting political at all. I'm not going to attack anybody. I just want to be as like, unifying as I can and consistent with what Charlie really cared about as I can and what he really cared about.

[Alex]

They called it anti Semitic.

[Caller]

It was insane. It, it. Which was of course absurd. But leaving aside the absurdity, like the emotion was real. It was totally real. Like, oh my gosh, that's outrageous that you said that.

[Alex]

It's like, great speech. I watched it. Oh, I don't.

[Caller]

It was just short. But all I did was recount the gospel. But that's, that's the most controversial thing you can do. And everyone's happy to talk about God all the time. God, spiritual is Jesus, man. That's a no go zone. Why is that?

[Alex]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

Because it's real, that's why. And it just triggers the fuck out of people. I shouldn't even.

[Alex]

No, no, but I agree with you that we need to have an open discussion about this because it's here so.

[Dan]

No one cares if you say or talk about Jesus. It's a problem for people who don't share your faith when you use Jesus to justify laws or social guidelines that restrict the freedoms of other people because you need everyone else to adhere to your religious rules. It's great for you to love Jesus, but the fact that you've made yourself subject to the rules that are laid out in the New Testament, that's your business. The feeling that I get from people like Tucker is almost an anger at the idea that they have to follow religious rules that they've decided to accept. It's almost as if they feel trapped by the religion that they're in. And because of that, they have to insist everyone else trap themselves in the same box. It all just feels like a really unhealthy and unhappy connection to the divine. And as far as my understanding of God and Jesus goes, I don't think they'd love it. When Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors, he wasn't doing it to force them to stop doing sex work or collecting taxes. Forcing them to do those things would invalidate the critical step where they chose to live a different life, which is the key to spirituality. It can't be imposed upon you, but by seeing examples of it lived and proximity to spiritual people, the hope is that you can show other people a different path and then they'll choose to take it because it's better.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dan]

Alex and Tucker want to create a government that caters to their religious rules and outlaws things that their book says is immoral. But on some level, I'm sure they know that wouldn't save a single soul. Marketing. It's marketing. Religious religion's their marketing brand. And especially for Tucker, I really think you can feel that he hates it.

[Jordan]

But, but he was, he was trying not to be political when he talked about Jesus.

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

Are you saying that he used Jesus? He spoke very softly as, as a marketing tool. I cannot believe that is, I mean, can you meet. Can you believe our leaders would allow something like this?

[Dan]

I just, I think here's the feeling, the generalized feeling that I got.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Tucker has made his brand religion because it's fucking easy. And this is a hotbed of like, I got attacked by a demon, look at me.

[Jordan]

Great space.

[Dan]

And the right wing audience that he largely caters to has gone that direction. So there's an element of audience capture that is involved here too. He can't really go against this and expect to maintain the same grasp on people as he does.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dan]

And he hates that. He fucking hates that. Because he's made this step and now he has to be religious.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

And it's incoherent. That's why he yells about like, this doesn't match what we believe. You know, like all this stuff, he can't fit in this, this space and it makes him angry.

[Jordan]

I mean, you know, one of the problems with this. Right. Is one of the problems with these people is that ultimately, if you want to be a dick about it, lying to religious people is starting with a little bit of a leg up. You know, like, if you're not the best liar, then maybe you equalize by getting a little bit of a juice from people who are already predisposed to go along to get along kind of thing.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Jordan]

So.

[Dan]

So like religion, at least in the United States and Christianity, is fundamentally based on an element of faith.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And because people who are going to be self described as Christians have a large piece of their life that is anti critical thinking, anti, like deliberately.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Purposefully.

[Dan]

And not that that's a bad thing.

[Jordan]

In service of what they believe.

[Dan]

But if you are someone who wants to deceive, that's audience that you. You.

[Jordan]

Right, yeah, yeah, it is, it is the, the. I mean, like, it is the crux, you know, you can choose to live a trusting life, but don't be surprised when you get fucked and if you choose to live an untrusting life, don't be surprised if you're not following along with the book, you know, and if you.

[Dan]

And if you're living an untrusting life, don't be surprised that it's pretty lonely.

[Jordan]

Yeah, absolutely. Yep. It's tough.

[Dan]

Fuck these people.

[Jordan]

It's hard out there.

[Dan]

Anyway. Tucker's speech at Charlie Kirk's memorial was called anti Semitic because he made a joke that strongly implied that the Jews conspired to kill Jesus.

[Alex]

Sure.

[Dan]

He said, quote, I can sort of picture the scene in a lamp lit room with a bunch of guys sitting around eating hummus, thinking about, what can we do about this guy telling the truth about us? We must make him stop talking. Tucker can feign ignorance all he wants and pretend to be so surprised by the reactions that he keeps getting for the clear references that he makes to classic anti Semitic tropes, but I'm not interested in acting like he doesn't know exactly what he's doing. Yeah, this fucking charade is very weak. So. So this next clip is also for your consideration in a different category in the Webbies. All right, this one is for Best Banter.

[Jordan]

Best Banter. We've just got some good yuk em ups just going around.

[Dan]

Most electric chemistry.

[Caller]

I know that a lot of the people developing AI are really, really bad. Really, really bad. Like the worst. And what do I mean by bad specifically? They think they're God. And that's the core lie. It's not like how many people have you killed if you think you're God, you will kill people. And the more power you have, the more you will kill. It's just by its nature bad. And there's. So it means no restraint, no perspective, no humility. Man, that's a recipe for genocide. Always. Right.

[Alex]

I know we want to hit my own personal issues and a few other things. And I appreciate the time, Tucker, but big picture, let's just be completely honest about Trump. It's a blessing to have him in office. We're nine months in. The Democrats are destroying themselves. Lowest approval rating ever, lowest fundraising ever. It's really up to us to lose this. But we are starting to see some indictments of Comey and Lisa Chambers hold a lot more coming. The Democrats are now pledging, you know, resistance and violence and what's the quote? Energetic uprisings or forceful uprisings. Sorry, forceful uprisings. Chuck Schumer, how do you see this unfolding and what can the general public do to try to save the country in a nonviolent way. Because, I mean, I just think Trump rhetorically needs to be out front explaining people how dangerous things are and the crossroads instead of just saying, oh, liberals are dumb. They don't know what they're doing. No, the. The leftist globalists have a plan all over the world. They know what they're deliberately doing.

[Caller]

I think. I mean, a lot of things are important. Prayer is the most important. Keeping the people you love close, keeping your personal relationship strong, keeping your personal life virtuous. I do think that's really important.

[Dan]

So let's diagram this interaction that just happen. Tucker says that people that are making AI are bad and think they're gods, and he tease Alex up to talk about how if you think you're God, you're gonna kill a bunch of people.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dan]

Instead of responding to that, Alex changes the subject and launches into his own question for Tucker about how the Dems are gonna start a forceful uprising and what does Trump need to do?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Then instead of answering that question, Tucker starts talking about how it's important to have your heart and soul in order.

[Jordan]

Yep. Yep.

[Dan]

This is an interesting situation because this isn't a conversation or an interview. It's just dudes saying things to each other. More interestingly, it's clearly supposed to be Tucker interviewing Alex, but Alex wants to interview Tucker. If Tucker's guiding the conversation, there's way less chance of something newsworthy happening on this show. He, like, asks Alex questions, and Alex says some inflammatory dumb shit, but who cares? Maybe someone's gonna write an article about that. But Alex can't really sensationalize things he said himself on someone else' show. Yeah. So back on Infowars, there's no headline of I said dumb shit on Tucker's show, Right?

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

If Alex can guide the conversation, there's a chance he can get Tucker to say something that then becomes the big story, which is strategically a part of the reason that Alex is trying to take control of this conversation. Yeah, that was so awkward.

[Jordan]

It sounded a little bit like two spies exchanging. Exchanging, like, code words.

[Dan]

The sun is out.

[Jordan]

Yeah, exactly like, oh, but the sun Never shines on a 2 Tuesday.

[Dan]

The rain falls mainly on the plane.

[Jordan]

Okay, cool. We're both in the Evil Corp or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was.

[Dan]

Here's a bomb.

[Jordan]

That was great. That was really great. Because these two people don't like each other, you know, like, just on a. Just on, like.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

In the same way that Tucker very clearly hates his audience.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

He does not like Alex. Yeah, Alex probably likes him, but that's because he's kind of a dope who wants everyone to like him. And Tucker performs liking him.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Alex, liking you isn't what being liked is like.

[Dan]

Like.

[Jordan]

No, don't. Don't mistake that.

[Dan]

Yeah, I think.

[Jordan]

I think that it's like being liked by Gacy. That's the kind of. That's the kind of liked you're experiencing?

[Dan]

Yeah. So Tucker, he. He wants there to be a purge of the military and law enforcement.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

But it's good.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

It's cool. It's totally good.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Caller]

But from a governance perspective, the government, the people who were elected to run the government, need to make sure that the instruments of government are loyal to the Constitution and under control. And that's the concern that I have is that especially older conservatives, whatever that is, Republicans, whatever that is, but, you know, non leftists are living without dated understandings of, like, the military and the police. And, you know, there are a lot of great people in the military. I know a lot of them. And there are a lot of great cops. We were just with one of them a second ago. But there are also a lot of people with guns in official capacities who are really, really dangerous. And you need to make sure those people are under control. And by under control, I don't mean loyal to Donald Trump the man. I mean loyal to the Constitution.

[Alex]

Absolutely.

[Dan]

Well, here's where we enter a paradox for Tucker that he can't untangle. He desperately wants to pretend that law enforcement and the military need to be loyal to the Constitution, not just loyal to Trump the person. But what he really means is that they need to be loyal to Trump as an idea. They need to be loyal to defending the institutional power of white Christian heterosexual men, which the Trump movement is essentially an avatar for. But you can't just say that, right? Not yet.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

It's not quite time to say that.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

What happens if supporting Trump and defending the Constitution become at odds? What does Tucker believe law enforcement have a responsibility to do at that point?

[Alex]

Point?

[Dan]

If what he's saying is true, he should believe that they have a responsibility to arrest or kill Trump. If he's the president of the country and he's flagrantly ignoring and violating the Constitution, he represents an existential danger to the Constitution far greater than any terrorist we've seen in our lifetime. There are plenty of instances where you can argue that Trump has violated the Constitution about things like the emoluments clause and shit like that, which are correct. But also they're so disconnected from our day to day lives that people can easily be convinced to ignore them them or not take them seriously. But this month, Trump said directly and confidently that he took the freedom of speech away from burning flags, which he understood was something the Supreme Court had held as free speech. Free speech issues are central to people like Tucker and Alex's content and they impact everyone in this country in a way that we can all feel. The president of the country openly said that he is the arbiter of what is and isn't free speech, regardless of what the Constitution and the courts say. And Alex and Tucker just ignore it. Trump and the Constitution are directly in opposition in this instance. And Tucker's position that law enforcement should be loyal to Trump the person stands because Trump the person is a proxy for the white identity movement that Tucker wants the state and the military and law enforcement to uphold. Don't think for a second that Tucker wanting a purge of law enforcement because they aren't loyal to the Constitution is a sincere position.

[Jordan]

Now.

[Dan]

This is bullshit. It's a mess.

[Jordan]

It's absurd. Yeah, it's absurd. Just we're gonna need shock troops to do all the stuff that's illegal, so we better make them good now.

[Dan]

And we don't want them to be loyal to Trump the person. Right, but the. But maybe Stephen Miller or something.

[Jordan]

You know, there's always gonna be another. It's a miscavige, you know, it'll be, There'll be another Trump. God will have moved the mantle of heaven onto the next church.

[Dan]

In that case, what's important is that. That the military is beholden to the.

[Jordan]

Sea Org needs to stay in line.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. So the problem is those beards that people have in the military.

[Jordan]

That's true. It's always been true.

[Dan]

It's not really that. It's more that Tucker thinks that the military is mostly crypto gays and self hating whites.

[Jordan]

Wild.

[Alex]

The enlisted are great people, on average, the best. But people really have this vision of the military that's delusional.

[Caller]

A lot of them are sociology professors with nuclear weapons. I mean, they're, they're scary. And I know that just from living in D.C. i wouldn't know that if I hadn't spent my life in Washington. The Pentagon's right there. The neighborhood I grew up in in Georgetown was, you know, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs lived like one house over from me. There was always circulating through because they all circulate through D.C. so I would have, you know, go to dinners or duck hunts or whatever. You're with these people and you're like, wait, you're like stupid, totally incapable of like creative or independent thought and you're a lefty big time. And like self hating white guys and like crypto gay and like all like their sociology professors, a lot of them I've met a lot.

[Jordan]

Wait, is that all of them?

[Alex]

A lot.

[Caller]

Why do you think DEI swept through the military? Because the flag officers wanted it. And why did they want it? Because they hate themselves. Because they all got, you know, master's degrees at Fletcher or whatever at some, you know, they all got indoctrinated by higher education as you explained at the outset. So like man, you have to make sure those people are loyal to the Constitution and you need to go through systematically.

[Alex]

By the way, you think Trump finally knows that he thought the brass were these badass John Wayne guys are literally the enemy.

[Caller]

Well, apparently everyone says that the, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs is like a really good, a good solid raising cane American. That's correct. Dan Kane is a, he's a great guy. So I mean I think there are a lot of great people.

[Alex]

There's still a few left that, yeah.

[Caller]

There may be many left.

[Alex]

Look at how Flint, there are many bad himself forever.

[Caller]

Many bad, many bad and used the COVID vaccine to weed out the men. Guys with testosterone and self respect who were like, I'm not doing that, I'm not going to weed out myself. And so they left. And that was the point of the COVID vaccine was to get purge decent to purge the men. So it's all like Betas and women who can be controlled and are sort of eager to worship false gods. And you have those people with guns. I don't know. It's really scary what just happened under Biden.

[Dan]

Yeah, man, that's what the COVID vaccine was all about. Getting Betas into the military positions because all the testosterone filled self respecting men wouldn't take a shot and they had to go.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's always interesting the way people view military people. I'm always fascinated by it because it's like they spend a lot of time just making sure that following orders is like the thing. It's like the thing.

[Dan]

It's a big part of it.

[Jordan]

It's a huge part of it. And yet everybody's outside commentary always comes in on when they can't. They should and should not follow their orders. Like, oh, getting a vaccine. You're ordered to get a vac. How dare you never follow those orders. I mean it's crazy.

[Dan]

Cut your beard.

[Jordan]

Exactly Follow that order. Of course. How dare you not follow that order. Arrest this person, go to a place in America and go. Yeah, follow those orders.

[Dan]

Or go to another country and kill someone.

[Jordan]

Yep. Follow those orders. Don't ever think maybe this is as bad as the COVID vaccine.

[Dan]

I think that there, there's an interesting thing here too where Tucker is like, he's willing to say this shit, but he's like, oh, no talking about the Antichrist and Peter Thiel is out of my depth. You know, like it's a little stupid.

[Jordan]

I mean, it's a little silly. Listen, just because I understand global political affairs through a military point of view doesn't mean that I'm also prepared to talk about the Antichrist.

[Dan]

Well, these, these military people under Biden, they're all self hating whites.

[Jordan]

Absurd. What an absurd thing to think about anything. Just. They're all self hating whites is a self evidently crazy thing to say.

[Dan]

And that's why they brought in the COVID vaccine.

[Jordan]

What are you. When you say they are self hating whites, Right. You're. You're harkening back to race traitors, essentially. No, that's what you're saying.

[Dan]

Million percent.

[Jordan]

Right. That's what you're doing. Like they're, they're people who will talk to the blacks. So we have to destroy them. The Klan will not allow you to marry outside of your race.

[Dan]

But see, it's not really just about that.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dan]

It's also about women and how they shouldn't be in power, of course.

[Caller]

And it's self hating men and bloodthirsty women and.

[Alex]

Oh, I love the liberal thing. Once women are in charge, there'll be no more wars.

[Caller]

That's.

[Alex]

That's not what the studies show.

[Caller]

Well, it's not what reality shows us. Female leadership leads to violence.

[Alex]

Why is that? It's true.

[Caller]

I. I don't know. And I, as a great lover of women and the father.

[Jordan]

You.

[Caller]

You not anti women.

[Dan]

Come on.

[Caller]

Claws.

[Dan]

Claws.

[Jordan]

Claw anything.

[Alex]

I love women. But it's true invisibility.

[Caller]

Female leadership leads to violence and you see it. And you. Who was. It was Governor Wallace's wife who opened the windows to smell the burning t drink in. Yeah, the. The Redland odor of riot. Yeah, it's. It's Winnie Mandela, man. It's really, really. The Bolshevik wives were more bloodthirsty than they were. I don't know exactly what that is. I think weak male leadership incites something in women that's really dark. That's not their fault. That's men's Fault. Men's job is to lead.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So Tucker is arguing that having women in positions of power leads to violence, and the first example he can come up with is a misrepresented comment from Tim Waltz's wife.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

Tim Walz is the governor, not his wife.

[Jordan]

Yeah, but that's.

[Dan]

She's not in a position of power. Her husband is. If Tucker wants to keep women out of positions of power, then this isn't an example he should be using, because it's a man in a position of power, and it's.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it's not an example.

[Dan]

This is stupid. And it's intentionally stupid because it's cynical content directed at an audience that Tucker hates and thinks are stupid. If he wants to make an argument that women being in power leads to violence and the only thing he can seem to come up with are the wives of male leaders, he understands that he's making a dumb point that isn't supported by the premises of his argument. Yeah, I'm not saying that having women in power would end war or anything like that. It's just that the construction of the point Tucker is making is motivated by defending his sexist conclusion rather than by taking real information and arriving at the conclusion that that information would support. Some people are better at masking this than others, and I would say that Alex is actually better than Tucker because he just rambles and confuses the audience with emotions so effectively that it's hard to track what he's saying if you're not paying close attention.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Tucker doesn't quite have that move yet.

[Jordan]

No.

[Dan]

So, interestingly, there was a study that was published earlier this year that shows that English queens between 1480 and 1913 were 27% more likely to go to war than kings. Sure. One of the reasons that was suggested for why this difference existed was that often queens were married to men from other countries as a mean of creating alliances.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

These alliances often meant that the queen would wage war along with these countries, and this is supported by the data that shows that there's a lower rate of war among unmarried queens.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

There's a lot of interesting historical sexist dynamics that this data points to, but none of it suggests that women are more likely to go to war than men. But it's interesting to be clear.

[Jordan]

To be clear, the study shows that There is a 27% increase in Queens going to war compared to male kings at the time. And because their husbands told them to.

[Alex]

Probably.

[Dan]

I mean, it's a big part.

[Jordan]

Yeah, like.

[Dan]

Yes, historically.

[Jordan]

Exactly.

[Dan]

Historically, married queens have had much more like co sovereigns with their husband that they marry. And the alternative, where a king would marry somebody that queen isn't co sovereign. Doesn't work. It doesn't work the same way in reverse?

[Jordan]

No. Strange how that goes.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

No.

[Dan]

So no claws, no Wolverine.

[Jordan]

I just. I just love the. It's not just. It's not just what you say, because it is that. But there's also the layer of. The additional layer of disdain on top of it that is includes a. Like, not only do I not actually believe any of this bullshit.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

But I am showing you a version of what you believe that's even more disgusting. And I know you're gonna eat it up because you're fucking stupid. Like, that's how awful it would be to listen to Tucker is to be beaten. It is horrifying.

[Alex]

It.

[Dan]

It is an attack in some ways.

[Jordan]

It is.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

He is punching me again and again and again, and I have yet to receive claws.

[Dan]

Well, the claws were added later.

[Jordan]

Oh.

[Dan]

Wolverine's actual power is a healing factor.

[Jordan]

Oh, that's true.

[Dan]

And if Tucker is punching you over and over again.

[Jordan]

No, because this. The claws used to be. The claws are skeleton. The claws. The adamantium claws are later, but the skeleton still. I'm pretty sure that's true.

[Dan]

I don't. I now realize I'm out of my depth.

[Jordan]

No. Because I remember in days of future past, he doesn't have the adamantium clause yet.

[Alex]

Yep.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

So, look, moving on. You have a healing factor. That's all I'm saying.

[Jordan]

I know. I don't know why we needed to do that. We didn't need to that. Do that.

[Dan]

So in Tucker's life, he's lost two fist fights. And I was listening to this. I was thinking, let's make it three, baby.

[Jordan]

Yeah. All of that, it's.

[Caller]

It's all true. And I also think it's, you know, having lost two fist fights in my life. Badly. Not badly enough to get into a fist. Into a fist fight. I mean, there's something about, you know, being forced to box as a kid, as I was, or. And learning that, like, I'm not as tough as I thought I was or whatever, but the experience of physical violence is much more a male thing. And no, you know, people haven't been in a fist fight. Shouldn't be commanding an army or a country, for that matter. Or a country.

[Alex]

Well, the tougher, you know, the more you learn. There's always somebody tougher.

[Caller]

100, and it hurts to get hit in the face. It hurts a lot, actually. It hurts so much. That's why I was never good at boxing. My brother was good, but I was not because I hit the face. And I'd be like, oh, I think we should negotiate this. Like, there's got to be a smarter way to do this. That was my. And then I was like, I'm not suited for that.

[Jordan]

That.

[Caller]

And. But it was only through that experience that I learned anyway. You know all this because you're a man.

[Dan]

Yeah, because you're a man.

[Jordan]

Cuz you're a man.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I say no to negotiations. Tucker. Let's box.

[Alex]

Yep.

[Dan]

I. I don't fight, but I'll. I'll. I wouldn't worry too much about rent a venue.

[Jordan]

We could be all right.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

I think you'd have this one.

[Dan]

I would do it. I think I would.

[Jordan]

Cuz you're a man.

[Dan]

I have to.

[Jordan]

Yeah, absolutely. There's. There's only. There's only the explanation for that. That's just. That's just it. You just. Men know violence, you know.

[Dan]

You know what I think I would do? I think I would. I would agree to a boxing match with Tucker.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

If he would do it.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And then I wouldn't hit him.

[Jordan]

That would be fun. Yeah, that would be fun. That would be a nice little. Nice protest. Yeah. Try and hit me again. Come on, bud. Come on.

[Dan]

Knock me out.

[Jordan]

I don't give a shit on, buddy.

[Dan]

I think it would be so funny.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Tucker beat the shit out of you.

[Jordan]

I think it'd be more funny, but. Yeah, but I wouldn't do that.

[Alex]

No.

[Dan]

That's why we're different.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

So, look, female leaders lead to violence, obviously, and that's why they shouldn't be in leadership position.

[Jordan]

Everybody knows that.

[Caller]

Yes. There's something about female leadership that gets you very quickly to violence. And you see it in the support for the Ukraine war, which is like the murder of an entire country's male population.

[Alex]

And now, though, a bunch of European countries are doing female conscription, I wonder if combat is gonna get the women to not be for war.

[Caller]

I wonder why you would even bother with a civilization if you're sending your women to fight wars. I don't just give up at that point.

[Alex]

Well, it's like Ursula Vander Leyden.

[Caller]

You only have a military to protect your women. That's the point. There's the only one reason, and that's to protect my wife and my daughters. And if it weren't for that, why would we need a military?

[Dan]

So Tucker thinks that female leadership Leads to war. But then he brings up Ukraine, where a man is president. If the ability of women to serve in the military is what he means by female leadership, that seems. Seems strange because that's definitely not the point he was making earlier when he was complaining about this.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

All of this is just rooted in profound sexism and a belief in the natural hierarchical order that puts men over women. Tucker doesn't think that women are equal humans, and he believes that he has an ownership stake on the women in his life. And that's it.

[Jordan]

Well, let's not forget first Timothy. Buddy. Timothy's got a lot to go on there.

[Dan]

It's fascinating how Alex keeps trying to butt in to bring up Ursula van der Leyden because. Because that's an actual example of a woman in a position of power.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

All of the other examples Tucker has come up with don't apply. And he won't even let Alex shift the subject into, like, let's actually complain about this woman in power.

[Jordan]

Yeah, man, what a.

[Dan]

Just.

[Jordan]

I mean, that. That idea that, like, fucking bullshit concept of chivalry being the reason that. But, like, that's. How are you still trying to sell that in 2025?

[Dan]

It's.

[Jordan]

The year is 2025.

[Dan]

Yep, yep.

[Jordan]

People have been saying that shit for a long time, and it's never been true.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dan]

It's just an excuse to not see women as equals because you could, you know, you could make some sort of argument about how, like, as a man, your whole thing is to provide for women, so why would you ever want to live in a civilization that allows women to. Right. Why should they ever have to work.

[Jordan]

Oh, my God.

[Dan]

Right?

[Jordan]

Oh, my.

[Dan]

Nonsense. Anyway, the Dems.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

All these fucking leftist demon Satan folk. Right?

[Jordan]

Okay, now I just. I just asked this question, right? Do we now have to admit that all the women who've ever been in the Republican Party here stupid or nakedly craven and have stolen money from everybody?

[Dan]

Um. Hmm. No, because later Tucker is like, hey, you know that Tulsi, she's pretty great. She's one of the good ones.

[Jordan]

No, that's not possible. Unacceptable. Unacceptable.

[Alex]

If.

[Jordan]

If, like. Because it work, it has to work in two ways, right? If women leading to. If women leaders leading to violence is inherently a bad thing, then leaders leading to violence is a bad thing, which doesn't need gender. So it should also work backwards where male leaders leading to violence is bad.

[Alex]

Bad.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Well, I'm sure it is.

[Alex]

But look.

[Dan]

Tulsi's cool, all right?

[Jordan]

Or if female leaders are bad, then all female leaders are bad. It can't be. Most female leaders are bad because then it's not the female that has anything to do with that. It is completely other effects.

[Dan]

Yeah, but like, you know, Tulsi is into Trump.

[Jordan]

So what you're saying within an argument that is. Is women can't be leaders, but also this woman is good is because men are leaders. Most women are incapable of reaching a point where I allow them to be leaders.

[Dan]

Well, yeah, certainly. And in the system that I envision, Tulsi being in power is kind of not real.

[Alex]

Right.

[Dan]

She's not really in power. We leash her. Right?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

She's subservient to Trump and understands that her position in that place. And that's why she's cool. Cool.

[Jordan]

Yeah. She's a bride of Christ.

[Dan]

Yeah, she's fine. She, she. If she were to assert some sort of independence with killer. Right. She would instantly become the problem with women in powerful positions.

[Jordan]

So weird.

[Dan]

Anyway, these Dems, yeah. They like to play like they're the victims. Oh, but also Alex is a huge victim. Yeah.

[Alex]

Would you believe that Leticia James bitched and complained and said Trump has weaponized things against me?

[Jordan]

It's kind of.

[Alex]

Yeah, but that's the system.

[Caller]

The entitlement level in this country has gotten very high.

[Jordan]

I will.

[Alex]

Well, that's not just hiding behind a woman, behind a black woman. That's all they're doing. It's totally, you know, transparent.

[Caller]

Well, the most powerful people in our society consider themselves its greatest victims. You always notice that, like, I'm a victim. I need security at my house. It's like, okay, no, you're not a victim. You're the perpetrator. So let me. Speaking of victims and perpetrators, you are the victim of the greatest crime against free speech in the last 10 years.

[Dan]

For your consideration for a Webby Award, Tucker, for craziest transition.

[Jordan]

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

[Dan]

Least self aware transition.

[Jordan]

That people. People are so entitled these days. So entitled.

[Dan]

Such victims these days.

[Jordan]

Specifically Now. Now, specifically, people are very entitled. And the most powerful people in the world, of which I am one, having interviewed Putin, having a massive amount of sway with an electorate controlling so much wealth. Are all the victims, by the way.

[Dan]

You'Re a victim, probably the victim of the greatest attack on free speech ever.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So free speech is important, apparently.

[Jordan]

Oh, my God.

[Dan]

Flag burning.

[Jordan]

It is. It is. It is true, you know, that that level of cognitive dissonance is overwhelming.

[Dan]

It's not cognitive dissonance on their part.

[Jordan]

No, no, no, no.

[Dan]

It's intentional.

[Jordan]

Absolutely. No, that's what I'm saying. That is the. That is the technique. That is the tool that divides your brain into chunks. You know, It's. It's effective.

[Dan]

Yeah. And Alex's problem is not free speech. That's not. That's not a relevant factor in what happened with him. But he does do a long, just, like, unlistenable stretch, talking about his victimhood at the hands of the courts in the Sandy Hook case. And Tucker is like, you are so in the clear here.

[Alex]

Oh, Alex Jones was mean to dead kids families. There was never any evidence of that.

[Caller]

Well, but even again, just to restate the Constitution of the United States, the country we live in, you're allowed to have any opinion you want.

[Alex]

Okay?

[Caller]

You were making a political point. And the job of the government is to defend that. Right. That's the point of the Department of Justice. Defend that. Right, Right.

[Dan]

Get right with God, Tucker. Wow. You piece of shit.

[Jordan]

Wow.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Because if you're willing to defend as free speech whatever Alex did during Sandy Hook, then Trump is your enemy.

[Jordan]

I. There's no.

[Dan]

There's no way around it.

[Jordan]

To say that out loud should get you struck by lightning. Yeah, like, that's just. That's just egregious to. To a point where it's. It is, like, cosmic. It's cosmically egregious.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, earlier I was saying that I think that Alex is better at, like, obscuring his bad examples when he's making an argument.

[Jordan]

Right, right.

[Dan]

It's so all over the place, non sequiturs and stuff. And I think there's other things that Alex is better at. And if Tucker wants to take this job that he clearly wants, like some of whatever Alex's brand is, he's gonna need to get rid of this, too.

[Caller]

I would think. That is why people voted for Trump. It's why I campaigned for him. You have to have justice in your country, Tucker.

[Alex]

I agree. More than an economy, more than stopping war. I agree. My listeners won indictments. And finally, Comey Letitia James.

[Caller]

Indictments of the guilty. Not indictments of people you don't like. Not indictments of people who pissed you off. Wrong.

[Alex]

Oh, that's cut and dry. They did.

[Caller]

People who committed crimes and who have escaped justice because of their political connections. That can't continue.

[Alex]

Well, they started it, Tucker.

[Dan]

Oh, I know they started it. Mentality is no good. You want that to be subtext, not text. And then the second thing, you can't say, I campaigned for Trump. You can't do that. You can't have been a political hacker and a tool of a campaign. And if you are, that campaign has to be like Ron Paul. You have to have lost. Yeah. There has to have been no chance. It has to have ever getting off the noble loss.

[Jordan]

Exactly. A champion of principle that we knew never had a chance of winning, but it was a protest by, you know that.

[Dan]

Right. And Tucker, it's undeniable that he was a part of the Trump campaign, but he has to deny it or at least has to never put it in those terms, because now you're a campaigner. You're not. You're not as independent as you need to present yourself as.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I, I think the thing that he needs that's going to take him to the next level of Alex is removing all continuity. Because for him, he should be. It should be like a second skin to remove all continuity. Right. We don't need to worry about Iraq gone. Gone. Doesn't matter. We don't need to worry about Trump gone. Doesn't matter. You know, like, tomorrow is a brand new day. I campaigned. I didn't campaign. I'm for it. I'm against it.

[Dan]

Women.

[Jordan]

No women. Who cares? You know?

[Dan]

Sure. Yeah. That would be helpful to him and maybe he'll get there.

[Alex]

Maybe.

[Dan]

I don't know. The demons really force you to stay in the moment.

[Jordan]

It is tough. It is tough with the scratching and the clawing.

[Dan]

So we have one last clip here, and it's reflective of a large chunk of the end of this episode, which is. Is, you know, Alex telling people to go to his new websites, which is obviously a huge reason they did this interview to begin with.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And then complaining about Todd Blanche, who's the deputy head of the doj, and he's the reason that Ed Martin stopped Alex's whole thing.

[Jordan]

Right, right.

[Dan]

For just briefly, Alex went to Ed Martin and was trying to get. Get the Department of Justice to go after the Sandy Hook people who are suing him. And Todd Blanche was like, no, we.

[Jordan]

For so many reasons.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

So many reasons.

[Dan]

And so Alex is on the warpath against Todd Blanche.

[Alex]

Naturally, Todd Blanche is Bill Barr 2.0. And if you think that little sneaky lawyer is your friend, you're a fool. So I think Todd Blanche should be removed, not because of me, but because everybody I talk to, he is literally there working against the president. He's the one telling the US Attorneys, don't do these prosecutions. And then Trump gets pissed and says, do It. They do it. So Trump. You did it with Sessions, you did with Bill Barr. Why are you doing it with Blanche right now? It's just. Please. I don't understand this blind spot of Trump.

[Caller]

I've never heard any of this before. But that's why I'm a fan of yours, because I always learn a lot. Godspeed, Alex Jones. Truly. Thank you, Tucker.

[Alex]

Love you, brother.

[Caller]

Great to see you, man.

[Alex]

Thank you, sir.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dan]

I've never heard any of this. And that's why I like talking to you, because you just tell me things that I'll pretend are true.

[Jordan]

Just. Just. Just don't lie to me this bad, you know? Just don't lie to me like this. This. It hurts to be lied to like this.

[Dan]

You mean for Tucker or for.

[Jordan]

Yeah, when Tucker lies to me like this. Like, I've never heard any of this stuff before.

[Dan]

There's a. Well, but I think that some of that might be true. And there's a reason why he wouldn't have heard a lot of this stuff.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Because it's bullshit.

[Jordan]

Yeah, well, there's that.

[Dan]

Yeah. And a lot of it is niche, Alex. Bullshit.

[Jordan]

Right, right, right.

[Dan]

And his sort of boutique grievances. And so, yeah, when. When he's like, I haven't heard any of this stuff, it's like, yeah. And you should have the instinct. You have a giant platform, and this isn't your first day on tv. You should have an instinct to treat it as, oh, this is something Alex is saying. Something that is the truth.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I don't know. I guess. I guess now it's become like, to me, what Alex is saying is one big, long thing, you know, like. Like Kerouac and on the road. It's just one big, long thing. He's not saying individual things. He's only ever saying one big thing. Right. So. So the idea of, like, I haven't heard this before, where. Yeah, you have. But you've heard it like this last year, and you've heard it like that two years ago, and you've heard it like that three years ago. You have heard this before. Yes, definitely that.

[Dan]

But there's a corollary of that. Or there's a side implication of. Yeah, and that is when he's like, I haven't heard any of this stuff. It's him admitting, I don't listen to your dumb shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah, of course. Of course I don't listen to any of this shit.

[Dan]

I'm happy to promote you. Mostly because I don't have to take responsibility for being aware of your career and what you actually do.

[Jordan]

Have you not listened to some of my questions? When you are talking, my brain is going la la la la la la la. I'm a little Tucker.

[Dan]

The oh so mad at women. I hate my audience. Yeah. That's. That's what's going on in his head.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

Anyway, we made it to the end. No superpowers.

[Jordan]

Nope.

[Dan]

Can you like now. I don't want you to jump.

[Jordan]

No, I don't. I don't want to jump either because it's, it's, it's gonna. The landing is gonna be hard. Yeah, it's gonna be hard.

[Dan]

Fuck. Well, I really thought we had a chance.

[Jordan]

I mean really, if, if anybody could. I think it would be Tucker. I think there's something so specifically grading about him.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

And then the, the amount of history he has of being a piece of shit. It's kind of amazing.

[Dan]

I like this as a new thing where we're trying to wake up your ex gene.

[Jordan]

I think that's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If we can torture me into a level of excellence that has never been reached before, I could be Shohei.

[Dan]

Well, because Alex and Tucker have such a disrespect for continuity and the fact that like things exist past, I feel like we have to impose new layers of continuity on ourselves.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And now we have the quest for powers.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Our ultimate defense against their offense is developing superpowers.

[Dan]

Yeah. And I'm going to need some of your blood.

[Caller]

Blood.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I'm gonna run some tests.

[Jordan]

Obviously. Obviously.

[Dan]

So while the blood's in the centrifuge, we'll, we'll. I guess we should go. But we'll be back. Until then. We have a website.

[Jordan]

Indeed we do. It's knowledgefight.com.

[Dan]

Yep. We'll be back. But until then. I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark. I am the mysterious professor. Yeah.

[Jordan]

Woo.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

And now here comes the sex robot.

[Alex]

Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding.

[Jordan]

Hello, Alex. I'm a first time caller.

[Caller]

I'm a huge fan.

[Jordan]

I love your work.

[Alex]

I love you.