#1090: Swinging On The Uneven Bars

Summary

Knowledge Fight Ep. #1090: Swinging On The Uneven Bars (Nov. 3, 2025)

Hosts: Dan & Jordan
Main Focus: Dan and Jordan analyze Alex Jones’s recent appearance on Sean Johnson’s podcast, exploring Jones’s legal woes, shifting conspiracy theories, and right-wing media dynamics.

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Overview

In this episode, Dan and Jordan review and dissect highlights from Alex Jones’s guest spot on his trainer Sean Johnson’s podcast. Their conversation unpacks Jones’s reaction to the Supreme Court’s refusal to hear his Sandy Hook appeal, his current strategies for narrative control, and the right-wing conspiracist media ecosystem’s internal logic. Along the way, Dan and Jordan highlight weak interview skills, Jones’s constant shape-shifting of facts, and a noticeable lack of authenticity from both interviewer and guest. They also comment on the growing schism among various flavors of right-wing conspiracy media.

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1. Bright Spots and Show Setup

(Start – 06:40)

• Dan’s Bright Spot: Watching an old MacGyver episode featuring hijackers and a Vietnam vet overcoming trauma. Jokes about MacGyver’s lack of “smooches.”
  • “No kisses, no smooches, no ants.” (01:17, Dan)
• Jordan’s Bright Spot: Reconnecting with a childhood friend, reflecting on how both avoided turning out “horrible” despite the odds.
  • “Considering where we’re from...the chances are much higher for both of us to be horrible people.” (04:43, Jordan)

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2. Introducing the Sean Johnson Podcast

(06:40 – 08:50)

• Sean Johnson, not the Olympic gymnast, is Alex’s personal trainer and “yoked” but lacking charisma. Dan and Jordan decide to see how someone from Jones’s extended circle runs a show.
• Quick take: The format and style is a weak imitation of Joe Rogan.
  • “It just feels like a Rogan opening.” (09:21, Dan)
  • “This is very much artificial as shit.” (10:11, Jordan)

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3. Alex Jones on Supreme Court & Sandy Hook Case

(10:58 – 18:36) | [11:02-18:36]

• Court Verdicts: Sean opens with “What the fuck is going on?” (11:02, Sean Johnson) regarding Alex’s failed SCOTUS appeal.
• Jones’s Spin: Claims Obama targeted him via national security investigations—a new shift from prior blame on Hillary Clinton.
  • “Obama put me under National Security Investigation 2013...” (11:16, Alex Jones)
• Discovery & Evidence: Dan debunks Jones’s claim that he was penalized for failing to produce non-existent evidence, reiterating that the court had actual proof he withheld required material (see infamous accidental text dump).
  • “The fact that this text wasn’t produced in discovery irrefutably proves that there was material...” (12:44, Dan)
  • “If we’re in a dunk tank—bullseye, you’re in the water...” (13:37, Jordan)

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4. Moving the Goalposts: Jones’s Story Evolves

(14:19 – 15:58)

• The origin story for Jones’s legal troubles evolves: from a Clinton plot to now an Obama plot years earlier—illustrating Jones’s opportunistic narrative shifting.
  • “But now Obama started this in 2013—the fuck are we talking about?” (14:39, Dan)

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5. Legal “Fake Evidence” Claims

(16:10 – 18:36)

• Alex Jones: Again alleges trials were “rigged” with “fake evidence” but offers no specific example when challenged.
• Sean Johnson: Accidentally asks real follow-up, prompting Jones to ramble and change topics.
  • “What was that evidence...?” (16:37, Sean Johnson)
• Dan: Explains Jones’s evasions—naming lawyers might bring legal peril; vagueness is strategic.
  • “He would. He understands that the hammer could fall pretty quick...” (18:14, Dan)

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6. The Alex Jones “Origin Myth” and Omitted God-Talk

(19:02 – 23:36) | [19:02-23:36]

• Jones attributes his “awakening” to a cadre of intelligence insiders and conspiracy celebrities from his youth—no mention of divine prophecy, unlike on some other platforms.
  • “None of the credit goes to me. It goes to all the people’s shoulders I stand on...” (20:59, Alex Jones)
• Dan/Jordan: Contrast Jones’s secular epic on Rogan-esque shows to his messianic performances elsewhere. Jokes about God letting Jones off the hook for name-dropping Him less.
  • “God chose me...to lead the resistance against the devil…” (21:34, Dan, paraphrasing Jones’s self-mythologizing)

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7. Rehashed Right-Wing Myths & Conspira-Nexus Figures

(23:36 – 24:03)

• More familiar story: Jones’s pantheon of racist and ultra-right “thinkers” praised, while he distances himself from overt anti-Semitism (for now).

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8. Platform, Persona, and Bankruptcy Fallout

(24:03 – 30:02) | [24:03-30:02]

• Post-SCOTUS Reality: Jones boasts he’ll survive losing Infowars and just go work elsewhere, challenging the core of his “independent rebel” branding.
  • “It’s not just a website or studio he’s giving up. It’s the entire idea of his career now...he can’t go back again.” (26:34, Dan)
• Dan: Highlights how a move to corporate employment reveals Jones’s vulnerability & hypocrisy.

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9. Advice to “Fringe” Media & Self-Image Spin

(30:03 – 33:39)

• Sean: Asks Jones how fledgling right-wing personalities should survive.
• Jones: Claims he never lies for attention, then denies associations with flat earth or reptilian theories (not true).
  • “I never put out sensational stuff for attention...” (30:38, Alex Jones)
• Dan/Jordan: Mock Jones’s selective memory and transactional relationship to truth and money.

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10. Trump, Oil, and Political Incoherence

(34:37 – 38:18)

• Jones: Celebrates Trump’s supposed deal-making with Saudi Arabia, conveniently overlooking that such interventions contradict Jones’s “anti-state interference” position.
• Analysis: Dan and Jordan break down why Jones cheers federal intervention when it flatters Trump, but derides similar acts by political enemies.

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11. The “I’d Live Under a Bridge” Fantasy

(38:23 – 41:01)

• Jones: Insists he’d run his platform for free and doesn’t care about losing everything.
• Dan: Points out Jones’s desperate financial machinations contradict this self-image.

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12. The Emotional Shallows & Sad Interviewing

(41:07 – 45:07)

• Johnson unsuccessfully tries to get Jones to open up about the end of his Infowars era.
• Quote: “You are very shallow in an emotional sense. I would like you to open up and reveal more to me. I’m a sensitive soul.” (44:15, Jordan)

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13. Revisiting the Deposition: Jones’s “Smash” Doctrine

(45:07 – 47:54)

• Jones: Brags about his courtroom performance, prioritizing “crushing globalists” over truth.
  • “They asked me...is always being accurate and telling the truth your number one measure? I said, No. Crushing globalists.” (45:34, Alex Jones)
• Dan/Jordan: Note his lack of remorse and how his boasts mask failures in the legal arena.

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14. Blame, Scapegoats, and the Todd Blanche Obsession

(48:21 – 53:03)

• Jones tries to paint DOJ/FBI figures like Blanche as the real villains, shielding Trump from blame for post-Epstein coverups.
• Dan and Jordan lampoon the ham-fisted ad breaks and low production standards.

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15. Tucker Carlson as Shadow Ambassador?

(53:16 – 56:38)

• Jones alleges Tucker Carlson acts as an unofficial U.S. ambassador, conveying secret presidential messages worldwide—a highly illegal claim if true.
  • “He’s like the secret U.S. ambassador of the world...carrying secret messages to world leaders...” (54:42, Alex Jones)
• Jordan: “I can’t think of anything less legal than unofficial ambassadors to the world...”

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16. Charlie Kirk Assassination Conspiracies (And More)

(57:05 – 75:03)

• Dan and Jordan explore Sean’s increasingly conspiratorial takes:
  • Is Charlie Kirk even dead?
    Johnson: “There’s only one answer that answers all of it. And that’s that this is fake. This was all staged.”
  • Theorizing multiple “possibilities”: lone shooter, false confession, double cover-up, whole thing faked.
• Jordan & Dan call out the reckless speculation, the lack of logic behind the “fake death” narrative, and the direct, harmful accusations these “questions” level at real people.
  • “If the families of Turning Point workers like Erica Kirk get harassed...they should be able to take legal action against him.” (73:41, Dan)
• They illustrate how the “just asking questions” tactic veils real, dangerous accusations.

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17. Candace Owens, Israel, and Jones’s Nazi Dance

(78:20 – 83:55)

• Candace Owens: Has accused Israel of orchestrating Kirk's murder; Jones awkwardly sidesteps, tries to focus on his own “discovery” of her.
• Jones relates an early-career interaction with overt anti-Semites trying to recruit him, contrasting “real” anti-Semites with people who just have “criticisms about Israel”—even as he cozies up to Nick Fuentes.
  • “All roads lead to the Jews.” (83:21, Alex Jones)
  • Dan: “Smash cut to Alex hanging out with Nick Fuentes...”

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18. Speculation Madness: Who Killed Kirk?

(85:43 – 88:50)

• Jones: “It could be RNC, DNC, Israel, trans-antifa, the ChiComs...”
  • “I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out that a weird RNC alliance...with Israel...did it. DNC...calling for him to die...trans tifa...shooting up ice...could ChiComs do it?” (85:58, Alex Jones)
• Dan: “If you have this wide of a net, you don’t really know anything...”
• Reflections on the reality that most political violence is rare, simple, and not part of grand schemes.

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19. Endgame: The Conspiracist Schism

(90:18 – End)

• The Blanche/Trump Divide:
  Jones and old guard protect Trump by finding scapegoats (Blanche, Barr, etc.); newer conspiracist voices (like Sean Johnson) are willing to turn the blame back up the hierarchy.
  • “We scapegoat someone...Nothing is Trump’s fault. It’s Bill Barr’s fault. Todd Blanche’s fault.” (92:33, Dan)
• Jordan and Dan predict increased tension between generations of conspiracy-mongers as the new wave won’t stop at the underlings.

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20. Closing Thoughts & Takeaways

• Dan: Concludes that Sean Johnson is “brutally boring,” lacking any spark or talent for media beyond personal training.
• Jordan: “If we had a fair marketplace of ideas, maybe Shawn Johnson’s view would get traction—but money and structure let the old guard scapegoat protect Trump.”
• Dan: “Infowars is thin...This is the kind of media talent we’ve got around...It’s bad news.”

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “I never put out sensational stuff for attention...” – Alex Jones (30:38)
• “If you have this wide of a net, you don’t really know anything.” – Dan (87:10)
• “There's only one answer...this is fake. This was all staged.” – Sean Johnson (72:12)
• “It's not just a website or studio...he's giving up. It's the entire idea of his career now...he can't go back again.” – Dan (26:34)
• “God chose me as a child to lead the resistance against the devil...” – Dan, paraphrasing Jones's past self-mythology (21:34)
• “He’s like the secret U.S. ambassador of the world...carrying secret messages to world leaders...” – Alex Jones (54:42)
• “They're not just theories...they're accusations.” – Dan (74:05)
• "We scapegoat someone...Nothing is Trump’s fault." – Dan (92:28)

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Episode Flow by Key Timestamps

• 00:04 — 06:40: Bright Spots, banter, intro
• 06:40 — 09:02: Sean Johnson podcast setup
• 11:02 — 15:58: Jones on legal battles, origins of case
• 16:10 — 18:36: “Fake evidence” claims debunked
• 19:02 — 23:36: Jones’s “brain trust,” legendary forebears
• 24:03 — 30:02: Independence vs. corporate dependence
• 30:03 — 33:39: Advice to fringe media, selective skepticism
• 34:37 — 38:18: Oil, Trump hype, ideological inconsistencies
• 38:23 — 41:01: The “I’d live under a bridge” fantasy
• 45:07 — 47:54: Jones’s “smash tyranny” deposition moment
• 48:21 — 53:03: Scapegoating DOJ/FBI; complaints about ad breaks
• 53:16 — 56:38: Tucker Carlson as shadow ambassador
• 57:05 — 75:03: Charlie Kirk conspiracies; “just asking questions”
• 78:20 — 83:55: Candace Owens, anti-Semitism, and Jones’s Nazi dance
• 85:43 — 88:50: Who killed Kirk? Sweeping, baseless speculation
• 90:18 — End: The conspiracist schism, closing reflections

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Final Takeaway

This episode punctures the myth of the “self-sufficient, rugged outsider” that Jones has so long cultivated, revealing how performative power and conspiracy thinking endlessly shift to accommodate personal, political, and economic needs. Dan and Jordan ultimately critique not just the content but the hollowness of the ecosystem propping up these fading right-wing media careers—finding in “Swinging on the Uneven Bars” less a daring performance, and more a sad, empty spectacle.

Transcript

[Sean Johnson]

Red alert.

[Jordan]

Red alert. Red alert.

[Dan]

Red alert.

[Alex Jones]

Red alert.

[Jordan]

Red alert. Red alert. Red alert. Red alert.

[Alex Jones]

Knowledge Fight. Dan and Jordan. I am sweating. Knowledgebody.com. it's time to pray. I have great respect for Knowledge Fight. Knowledge Fight. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys. Knowledge, Dan and Jordan. Knowledge Fight. Need. Need money. Andy in Kansas. Andy. Andy, stop it. Andy in Kansas. Andy in Kansas. It's time to pray. Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding.

[Jordan]

Hello, Alex.

[Dan]

I'm a fish caller.

[Alex Jones]

I'm a huge fan. I love your word.

[Jordan]

Knowledge Fight.

[Alex Jones]

Knowledge fight dot com. I love you.

[Dan]

Hey, everybody, welcome back. Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan.

[Jordan]

I'm Jordan.

[Dan]

We're a couple dudes. Like to sit worship at the altar of Selene and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.

[Alex Jones]

Oh, indeed we are.

[Jordan]

Dan Jordan. Dan Jordan, quick question for you. What's your bright spot today, buddy?

[Dan]

My bright spot today. Let's get back to MacGyver.

[Jordan]

Let's get back there.

[Dan]

So watch the next episode of MacGyver.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Dan]

No kisses, no smooches, no.

[Jordan]

No ants.

[Dan]

No ants.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

The bad guys in this episode were some fellas stolen a Brink's truck.

[Jordan]

Are they bad guys?

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Dan]

They've taken over an airport, a little small airport. So MacGyver's going out, he's trying to go fishing at this place that him and his dad used to go to back when he was a kid.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

Takes a wrong turn, right? Ends up going to this airport, trying to get directions.

[Jordan]

What are you going to do?

[Dan]

Right?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

It has been taken over by thieves, just so happens. Tiny little airport. So they take MacGyver hostage along with the rest of the people. Huge mistake.

[Jordan]

Huge mistake.

[Dan]

And chaos ensues. And a guy heals from his trauma about Vietnam.

[Jordan]

That's good. That's nice. It's wrapped up in a good 45 minute episode.

[Dan]

Most of the story, a lot of it hinges on whether or not this guy is willing to fly a helicopter in order to save everyone there.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Because he swore after Vietnam he would never fly another helicopter. And so he finally finds it within himself.

[Jordan]

I mean, I suppose that's a positive. I mean, I like a guy who sticks to his guns even in the face of adversity, so. But I understand the guy sentencing everybody to death is probably not a good TV character.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So instead of kisses, there is sort of like MacGyver being the best guy in the world.

[Jordan]

Right?

[Dan]

Because the guy who's recovering from Vietnam, is in love with the waitress from this. This airport.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And, like, they just can't get it together because he can't get over Nom.

[Jordan]

Right, right.

[Dan]

And so, like, by encouraging him to fly this helicopter, he has allowed them to love each other once more.

[Jordan]

It deserves a peck on the cheek at least.

[Dan]

No, no.

[Jordan]

Come on.

[Dan]

Nope. MacGyver is selfless with the kisses.

[Jordan]

I don't know when. When smooches became MacGyver's thing, but I like it. I appreciate it.

[Dan]

Well, I think it was because there were two in the first episode. Jarring.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that's just too many.

[Dan]

Now, this episode also features a young Jackie Earl Haley. Really not that young.

[Jordan]

Not the kid Jackie Earl Haley.

[Dan]

Not, like, Bad News bears.

[Jordan]

No. Adolescent Jackie Earl Haley.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Dan]

He plays one of the. One of the creeps who has taken over the. The airport. One of the criminals, man.

[Jordan]

Did he say that you guys are. You guys aren't locked up here with me. I'm like, wait, I think I got it backwards.

[Dan]

You're doing a Rorschach.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

No, no, he doesn't. He doesn't do that. But he does. He does. My youth. He's a lot younger than the other criminals in that.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Anyway, it was fun. I'm excited to keep watching. Although I will say this one was a little bit of a meh compared to ants.

[Jordan]

I mean, come on.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Ants are, like a season finale. You can't just. Ants in the, like, sixth episode. What is that? Yeah, that's way early on.

[Dan]

So what's your bright spot?

[Jordan]

My bright spot is I met my childhood best friend for lunch. He reached out and was like, ah, I exist. And I was like, wow, me too. We were alive at the same time. And then we went and had lunch. He's a great person.

[Alex Jones]

Nice.

[Jordan]

Which is. Which is cool, because I was thinking about this afterwards. I was, like, considering where we're from, considering where the world is and how it's heading and how it changed while we were growing up, the chances are much higher for both of us to be horrible people.

[Dan]

Yeah, that's true.

[Jordan]

Right?

[Dan]

There's a. The odds are not in your favor.

[Jordan]

Yeah. So that the two of us worked out made me think maybe there was truly something of, like, when we were growing up, we influenced each other to keep us from being pieces of shit later on in life.

[Dan]

I doubt.

[Jordan]

You know, I kind of doubt that.

[Dan]

Too, but it was nice credit for him being decent.

[Jordan]

No, no, no. I was going far the other direction.

[Dan]

He was responsible for you being.

[Jordan]

He's basically kept me from throwing my life away or I guess maybe becoming the most popular right wing podcaster there's ever been.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

There were only two options for me.

[Dan]

Well, one's still available to you later.

[Jordan]

Sure, sure. That'll happen.

[Dan]

Yeah. That's always on the horizon.

[Jordan]

It could be. But, yeah.

[Dan]

I'm glad you. Glad you had a good time. And reconnecting is always a little bit scary, a little bit beforehand, but always. I think it always is nice. I think it usually is nice.

[Jordan]

I mean, it could have. It could have been even. It could have even been fine. But it was great.

[Dan]

That's awesome. Yeah. Well, congratulations.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Today is not going to be great.

[Jordan]

That is unexpected.

[Dan]

But it is a meeting of friends.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

And there are some friends that we'll talk about on this episode.

[Jordan]

Oh, no.

[Dan]

But first, before we get into any of this, let's take a little moment to say hello to some new walls.

[Jordan]

That's a great idea.

[Dan]

So first, from the king of cats. Forget the frogs. Stepdad. To my bisexual roomma bisexual cat who gets bullied by my girlfriend, my girl Yennefer. I'm sorry. Thank you so much. You're now policy wonk. I'm sorry.

[Alex Jones]

I'm a policy wonk.

[Dan]

Because I'm sorry. At the end.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Dan]

Next, taking a fistful of super male vitality and backstroking at Barton Springs. Then hum the Jaws theme. Da dum da dum.

[Alex Jones]

I'm a policy wonk.

[Dan]

Thank you so much.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much.

[Dan]

And I will karate chop you if you land in Shenzhen or Hong Kong. And I'm swimming in rare earth minerals here in China. Thank you so much. You're an apple as you wonk.

[Alex Jones]

I'm a policy won.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much.

[Dan]

Thank you. And we got a technocrat in the mix, Jordan. So thank you so much, too. The episode numbers jump from 425 to 427, and I'm filled to the brim with righteous indignation. Release the 426 cut. Thank you so much. You're an Iot technocrat.

[Alex Jones]

I'm a policy wonk. 4 stars. Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant. Someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop. Daddy Sharp. Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent. He's a loser. Little, little titty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce. Jesus Christ.

[Dan]

Unfortunately, Todd Snyder owns that episode. We don't. We're not allowed to.

[Jordan]

Well, that was the one where we found out that both our mom's names were Martha.

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

And that allowed us to, I guess, connect on a more emotional level and.

[Dan]

We no longer own the rights.

[Jordan]

Right. That's true.

[Dan]

So, Jordan, today, like I said, we're talking about some friends, and that is. I wanted to branch out a little bit and see what was going on and some of the other. The other people in the. Alex Overse.

[Jordan]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Dan]

And it just so happened that Alex was recently on his trainer Sean Johnson's podcast. Shawn Johnson got a podcast?

[Jordan]

Why wouldn't you?

[Dan]

Not Shawn Johnson, the Olympic gold medal gymnast who won Dancing with the Stars?

[Jordan]

Yes. Very different one.

[Dan]

That's not.

[Jordan]

She does not train Alex Jones. That would be an interesting twist, though.

[Dan]

It would. Yeah, it would. No, this is a guy who's a former enlisted guy.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

And someone who has no juice.

[Jordan]

Probably in really good shape, though.

[Alex Jones]

Yes.

[Dan]

I think. I think that is. That is definitely fair to say. He is yoked.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

But I don't think he has a lot of charisma. And so I wanted to. I wanted to see what these. These other figures were like.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Because we only really know him as a. That Alex brings up.

[Jordan]

That's true.

[Dan]

And so, hey, let's. Let's. Let's see what. What they're all about.

[Jordan]

I would be delighted to see what they're all about.

[Dan]

So what it turns out they're all about is ripping off Rogan.

[Jordan]

Ah. Are you not entertained? Is this not why you were here?

[Alex Jones]

Rolling. All right. Rolling, rolling, rolling. Keep them doggies moving. Right.

[Sean Johnson]

Episode 23 Alex Jones the Man.

[Alex Jones]

Nope. Sean B. Johnson's the man. No.

[Sean Johnson]

No, sir.

[Jordan]

No.

[Sean Johnson]

You're paving the way for young guys like us. Like, what you're doing is incredible. Thank you for coming on.

[Alex Jones]

You bet. Love it.

[Dan]

That just feels like a Rogan opening.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

To me, there's this music. There's a little sound drop of. Are you not entertained?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

You know, Rogan has the train by day, Rogan podcast at night. You know, like, there's this intro, and then it's as if we're just rolling. We're just rolling. We're just starting the conversation. I get just. It aesthetically is a. It feels like a cheap knockoff.

[Jordan]

It is when you're being an artificial performer. You know, you're. You're acting. You're saying somebody else's words. You're. You're. But you're. You know, you're a mechanical person existing within this job.

[Alex Jones]

Right.

[Jordan]

A level of quality is how well you pull it off how? Well, you make it look like it's not artificial at all. This is not that. This is very much artificial as shit.

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

This is like an AI making a podcast about, like, make a Rogan show.

[Dan]

Yeah. And I think it's a testament to how, like, heavily influenced all of these people in that sphere are. Yeah. That, like, I don't know if they can really conceive of much else but doing another Rogan thing. And it sucks because they're not Rogan.

[Jordan]

Well, I mean, creativity isn't really rewarded in their spheres either.

[Dan]

True. You know, and at the end of the day, when you really look at it, what he did wasn't that creative, but creative.

[Jordan]

He just got there early.

[Dan]

Yeah. And he was really good at being high.

[Alex Jones]

Yep.

[Jordan]

Yep. Go boy. The world.

[Dan]

So Sean starts off this interview by asking about the recent news that the Supreme Court is not interested in Alex's appeal.

[Jordan]

Not at all.

[Dan]

And so he. He asked about that, and Alex has a take.

[Sean Johnson]

I know we wanted to get you back on here as soon as possible because the verdict just came back. They are not going to hear your appeal with the Supreme Court. And so I don't want to talk about anything else. Let's jump right into that. What the fuck is going on?

[Alex Jones]

And we were also luring in the latest on Charlie Kirk Trump, but it all ties together. This is a lot bigger than just me. The. We've. We've sued them. It's come out in court that Obama put me under National Security Investigation 2013. And Comey. Those documents were released by the Trump administration about seven months ago, and they had a dragnet. We're looking for something criminal to put me in jail. And even once Trump got in 2016, 2017, it still continued on. Trump never got control of the Justice Department. And so they settled. They've admitted this on claiming I said and did things concerning Sandy Hook that said. So they did years of discovery and then found nothing wrong. So they claimed that I didn't give them evidence that they claim existed with no proof.

[Dan]

So that answer that Alex gives is interesting, I think, on two fronts. The first is that he's saying that the courts claim that he failed to turn over evidence with no proof. He's arguing that they insisted that Alex held a piece of evidence that he wasn't giving them, but in reality, this evidence didn't exist. They were demanding him turn over something that wasn't real. So this is essentially a trap that he got put into. In a situation like this, it's very difficult to prove that someone's withholding evidence without knowing what that evidence is. In Alex's case, though, the court absolutely knows that he withheld evidence because his lawyer accidentally sent the plaintiff's lawyers in Texas to part of Alex's phone records.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

In discovery, Alex was required to turn over all communications that he had that mentioned a ton of key terms, including Sandy Hook. And he turned over a bunch of stuff, but it appeared incomplete when his text messages were accidentally sent to the lawyers. There was one where Paul Joseph Watson was warning him that this Covid stuff that he was doing was, quote, Sandy Hook all over again. Which should have been turned over in discovery.

[Jordan]

Yeah, but that one's really incriminating.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

The fact that this text wasn't produced in discovery irrefutably proves that there was material that Alex was required to turn over to the court that he did not. There is rock solid proof that he didn't comply fully and appropriately with discovery. So when he's saying that they say, I didn't turn over everything with no evidence.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

It's so often very easy to make that argument. And he is one of the few cases where you can.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it is. It is, like, to the point where I feel it escalates to a moral obligation to say, yeah, you got me. You know, like, this was. You got me. You got. You got me. Like, if we're in a dunk tank, bullseye, you're in the water, you know? But how is it. How can we live in a world where he's still allowed to say, you didn't get me? Yeah, that's bullshit.

[Dan]

Yeah, Right. It is. It is. It's a refutation of the continuity of reality.

[Jordan]

It makes you question what is real, if this is allowed.

[Dan]

He can possibly ever be held to anything if this is not.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, it's. I mean, it's there. Like, it makes you scream things like it's there.

[Dan]

So the second thing there is that Alex's story about this case seems to have changed for years. It was started by Hillary Clinton because she was too afraid of Alex's connection with Trump. She wanted to destroy Trump, so she cooked up a case against Alex to attack Trump by extension. But now Obama started this in 2013. The fuck are we talking about?

[Jordan]

Yeah, I thought we were in the 2015 region is when she started bringing everything back to the fore.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan]

Now it goes deeper still.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

How could you? How could I believe that?

[Dan]

So this is about some FOIA documents that came out recently that showed that the FBI was assessing Quote, white racially motivated extremists in 2013. It says nothing about Alex. It's just kind of understood by all these media figures that he is a white identity extremist.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So this must have been Obama trying to crush him. Well, I can say this with no uncertainty. If Clinton, Obama, or Biden were half as inclined toward dictatorship as Trump is, Alex would be in prison right now. He has committed crimes, and the only thing that's protected him is that his enemies believe in upholding the traditions and protections that our legal system affords. He is living free because other people believe in the rules that he pretends to care about.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, I know it would be a tough sell, but it would be something where I would consider it much more cleanly if Obama had been like, guys, I listen, I get it, but I'm just going to take this one off the board. This one's me. I'm just going to take this one off the board, come what may. I think it makes more sense than to go through all of your bullshit. But you know what? Chess is the way it is. Bye. You know, I would have. I would have been able to accept more of that argument.

[Dan]

I believe in the rule of law. Everything is very important. Serious, Seriously, fuck this guy in Texas.

[Jordan]

Listen, 100%. I am all on board with the law. I'm a lawyer. Fuck that guy. Let's get him.

[Dan]

So Alex believes and argues that there was fake evidence that was used against him in court.

[Alex Jones]

Right.

[Dan]

And so he says that. And Sean asks him, like.

[Alex Jones]

Like what?

[Dan]

What was the fake evidence?

[Alex Jones]

Oh, they had two show trials produced three years ago where I was already found guilty by the judge. The judges instruct the jury I'm guilty, and they put on all this fake evidence. I'm not allowed to challenge it. And Texas at a 45 million dollar judgment and Connecticut at 1.4 billion dollar.

[Sean Johnson]

What was that evidence? What's this fake evidence that they put out?

[Alex Jones]

Well, when a judge defaults you, then they're still supposed to put on a trial on damages. But even that wasn't real. So it was just completely rigged. Answer the question. Now they've done that to Mike Lindell. On my pillow, I just saw that. Where a federal judge said, I decide you're guilty.

[Dan]

Sean doesn't get that. He's not supposed to ask a question like that. He's just supposed to nod along and say, oh, my God, they were so mean to you. Alex, this is the kind of question an actual interviewer might come up with because it's Interesting. And if Alex was telling the truth, it would lead to some good conversation. Alex is just making up that they presented fake evidence, though. So if you ask him what the fake evidence is, he doesn't have an answer. And that kind of reveals the illusion of this whole thing. He has no answer. You can. So you can see how Alex has to awkwardly change the subject and see if he can get some momentum going in another direction. Talking about my pillow. See if we can get Sean to forget what his question was to begin with.

[Jordan]

Yeah, you'd really think he's had a lot of time to find that fake evidence at this point in time, or at least make up some your own fucking. You're using the contracts that fake George Soros made for Antifa. Make up a contract for. We're using fake evidence against Alex Jones and Obama signed it.

[Dan]

Well, I think one of the issues that Alex has is he has to say. Pretty vague on this, because I do think that if he were to say that the lawyers introduced fake evidence and use a specific. They would fuck him.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

You might be able to. You might be able to get him into court real fast with that.

[Jordan]

Right, right, right, right. You can't do it to lawyers.

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Then you'll get in trouble there.

[Jordan]

You can do it to parents. Come on.

[Dan]

I think that. I think he would. He understands that the hammer could fall pretty quick if he was accusing them of committing crimes within a courtroom.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And so you keep it vague and be like, oh, the whole trial was fake evidence.

[Jordan]

Right, right, right.

[Dan]

It's fucking nonsense.

[Jordan]

I do like that. I do like a good. Hold on, hold on. This whole thing is imaginary. Oh, all right, all right.

[Dan]

So Alex rants a little bit here about his forefathers and all of these intellectuals that used to come on his show and coached him and taught him about life.

[Alex Jones]

The sick, beautiful irony of this is even if you guys kill me or put me in prison or whatever you do, you can't stop the signal. Because now Alex Jones is everywhere. It's like Spartacus. We're all Alex Jones now. Okay? And the truth is, I only popularized what the former head of the FBI in Los Angeles taught me, what the former head of Air Force Weapons Development taught me, what my uncle, who was in black ops all over Central, South America, Iran Contra, you name that, Southeast Asia before that, everything he taught me, everything that all these amazing people taught me when I was a child and a teenager and then an adult. So the truth is, I didn't discover all this. I didn't know. I Simply got on air when I was 19 and already had the background, and then was able to get syndicated and successful by the time I was 21. And then I got to be interfaced with all the top brains, the Anthony Suttons that ran the Frank Church Committee hearings on the Deep state. All of them. The G. Edward Griffins, the Ron Pauls. All of them. All of them. All the inside experts from Reagan, all the head of the Department of Education, Charlotte Iserby. I got to sit there with thousands of all the best people. We've got seven days a week interviewing them, researching, traveling, being sent documents by them. And that's why. That's why I've been proven right. Because all I did was take what all these people that didn't have media and we're doing conferences and writing books and, you know, trying to warn people and going to Congress and trying to get them to listen. That Congressman Larry McDonald, a Democrat who was super hardcore and was going to win the presidency, so they killed his ass. You know, the John Burt Society, William F. Jasper, all these people. So I stood on their shoulders, but I was able to take this giant brain trust and put it out in a interesting, I guess, entertaining way. I wasn't trying to, but that's just how it happened. And so none of the credit goes to me. It goes all the people's shoulders I stand on, but now they were the core. I was. The next big wave blasted out, and now this new wave's a hundred times bigger. I'm getting chills, and it's just everywhere.

[Dan]

Ooh, chills. So what about the visions from God that Alex got as a child? Like, what about his gift of prophecy and all the dreams that tell him the future? I get that Alex wants to make it sound like he comes from a serious line of thinkers and all that, but he just ranted for two minutes about what makes him important, and there's not a single word about God. It's almost as if he has a sense that Sean's brand is a little more in the Rogan space than the Tucker space, where it might be a little embarrassing for him to just let Alex make himself the messiah on this show. And, like, he's his trainer. They know each other.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

If you were like, God chose me as a child to lead the resistance against the devil, your trainer might be like, hey, man, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Jordan]

We. We got three sets in of leg presses the other day. You also didn't fall to your knees and get healed by Jesus.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

No.

[Dan]

Come on. Man, I've seen you sweat.

[Jordan]

I wonder if there was a conversation between Alex and God at some point where God was like, listen, let me get out in front of this. You're going to have to lie to people about me. I can't. You know, you're not going to be able to sell my brand on other people's shows. So I give you full permission to omit me from your list of accomplishments, even though, yes, I am God. Right?

[Dan]

Yeah. He's like, I'm not going to take it personally.

[Jordan]

Right, right, right.

[Alex Jones]

I'm God.

[Jordan]

I already planned this whole thing out. I can't be mad at you.

[Dan]

I have. I have to let you know in advance. It's cool.

[Jordan]

It is cool. It has to be cool. Because he doesn't seem to feel any guilt about it whatsoever.

[Dan]

No. It seems very different than what he says in a lot of other circumstances.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Weird.

[Dan]

Also a small point. There's no way Alex said Larry McD on his show because that dude died in 1983. McDonald was on a Korean Airlines flight to South Korea that was shot down when it entered Soviet airspace. And because he was a diehard anti communist, a John Birch Society guy, it became part of an elaborate conspiracy.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Incidentally, Larry McDonald also ran his own intelligence company called Western Goals. An article about it in Politico quotes one of its former employees, Mary Jo Buckland, as saying, quote, a lot of funding came from Germany, more than what came from the United States. A lot of it was kept from us. The Germans were all a lot of metals and they had a lot of money. The Germany people never came to the United States. They would fly Western Goals accountant to Germany. Something didn't feel on the up and up. Hmm.

[Jordan]

Western Goals. Former John Birch Society guy. Germany. I'm not liking it, buddy. That triangle doesn't hunt.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

Yep.

[Dan]

So that's the people that Alex looks up to.

[Jordan]

That's great. Good stuff.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Not God, I would say 95% racist. Explicit and extreme. 5% crypto racists. Still 0%. God damn crazy.

[Alex Jones]

Yep.

[Dan]

So a lot of this is obviously, but Sean's not much of a spark of. Of life. Not, not. Not super entertaining. I think Alex can feel it, and so he's got to fill space.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And a lot of this is just giving him a platform to complain about the sand stuff.

[Alex Jones]

Right.

[Dan]

Because the appeal to the Supreme Court just got rejected.

[Sean Johnson]

I can't imagine they thought that they would still. You would still be standing strong after this, this amount of time.

[Alex Jones]

I'm stronger.

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

Because Because I know you're evil. I mean, I loved in Connecticut when he goes, have you, you know, you know about the Godfather? You know the movie the Mafia? Oh yeah, Mario Puzo's. You know, I'm like, that's a great story about. He was gonna go speak at a college. Mario Puzo, who'd never written anything, never done anything, and he just hung around as Italian in New York and actually knew them all, the real mobs. He put a fiction thing out on actually with real people. He just changed the names. It's actually a documentary, literally. And he writes it. And he's gonna go speak at a top college, on top college screenwriting.

[Jordan]

Not one of those lower college.

[Alex Jones]

You pull this up, the stories of interviews. And they say to him, they say, so. So they wanted to go address, you know, you know, the whole class of writers and film students on how to screenwrite. So he goes to the bookstore to buy the best selling book on screenwriting. And the whole thing's about the Godfather script in Mario Puzo. He didn't know that. But the funny thing is, like, you know what the Godfather is, Sonny? And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, yeah, the Mario Puzo book. He goes, no, no, the movie. You know, the Godfather, the Mafia. You know what that is? And I'm like, oh, do I know what it is? You know what the real mafia is, jackass? Anyways. And so called good people. Until you mess with long enough, you find out and. But the point was he's like, well, that's who we are and you're going to lose no matter what. So I'm talking. But the point was, he's like, yeah, kid, once you learn we're thugs, once you learn we're crooks, you're gonna go piss on yourself. No, it's why I'm waging war on you. I know the idea of these people play these games. I'm coming for you. You're not coming for me, are you though? You understand that? I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me.

[Jordan]

Hey, five points turned against you and.

[Alex Jones]

You'Re on the wrong side of history. They know it.

[Sean Johnson]

You should have saved that for the end. That would have been the end right there. We still got so much farther to go.

[Alex Jones]

Well, here's the thing. I haven't talked about this as much as I should. It's just built to a head now.

[Sean Johnson]

I know, I know, but I. I.

[Alex Jones]

Mean, I feel great about it because, you know, oh God, you get a Website. You shut down our building. Ooh, well, you just go work for other people. Already got my crew new, new management, new everybody. I've just got a job there. Then they chase me around and I don't give a shit. I'm not a high roller. So, I mean, what you gonna do?

[Dan]

So this is fun. But Alex doesn't realize what his actual appeal is. If he has to sell Infowars and go work for somebody else, it pierces the entire premise that his career is based on, which is that he's totally free, he's his own man, and no one can tell him what to do because he runs the whole thing. If he closes up shop and goes to work for Bigley, then he can get fired. Bigley obviously supports the political ideology that he pushes, but they're first and foremost a money making operation. They sell shit. And if he does something that makes it impossible for them to make money selling shit, he's no longer worth employing. Alex can take on this posture that he doesn't need to be flashy and living a ritzy lifestyle, and that's fair enough. I do think that he would accept a certain amount of diminished luxury and continue doing what he's doing. But this isn't about that. It's about his soul and being free. At Infowars, Alex is free because it's a one talent business built entirely around him. If he wants to get drunk and cry about demons on his show, no one can stop him. If he wants to pretend that an Ebola outbreak is about to happen in Denver, no one can stop him. If he wants to continue to harass the Sandy Hook plaintiffs and cover new stories in ways that mirror how he behaved to get those lawsuits started in the first place, no one can stop him. But Bigley isn't a one talent business. They may like Alex and see a profit in him, but they run stores for tons of shitheads in the right wing media and they don't need Alex. The audience may not immediately understand this, but the idea that Alex is an employee of someone else's thing will become a problem for them. In the back of their minds. The audience gets that in order for Alex to make money, he can't own any business ever again. And that makes his position vulnerable. Bigly may be better than him going to work for, like Fox News, but ultimately it's not that different. He's giving up his independence and putting himself in a position where corporate interests can very easily exert pressure on his content or fire him. So all this talk about Victory. And all this bluster is fine. And I'm sure it feels good to do these rants and talk about Mario Puzo. But underneath this, Alex almost certainly knows that it's not just a website or studio he's giving up. It's the entire idea of his career now. He can't go back again. He's like, he's gonna be in a pocket now. Whoever's pocket it is, it's still a pocket.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah. There's no way to either reveal that everybody already knew that you were doing what you were told from, you know, Trump or whatever it is, and they didn't. And they don't care that you work for somebody else now, or you are revealing that even though you, quote, unquote, work for somebody else. It's a bullshit arrangement and you should have all of your shit stolen from you again. Right.

[Dan]

Like, you're either ruthlessly independent or you're safe. There's from the bankruptcy. It's one of the two.

[Jordan]

That's the whole point.

[Dan]

Can't have both.

[Jordan]

Being Alex Jones is you get to pick one.

[Alex Jones]

Yep.

[Jordan]

There's no ambiguity. Everybody else has to live with, like, oh, maybe I should do this, or maybe not in this situation. Maybe I should know. You're Alex Jones. You do the thing.

[Dan]

Yeah. And it's. If you're who Alex pretends to be, it's an automatic decision that you maintain is an automatic ruthless independence.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And the fact that he doesn't speaks to how this is all fake to begin with.

[Alex Jones]

Yep.

[Dan]

So Sean is a young gun on the Rogan impersonator scene.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

And so he wants to ask Alex for some, like, advice for other people in this media.

[Jordan]

Like, should I do, like, 20 bicep curls or 30?

[Dan]

No, no, no. That's the advice that he gives Alex.

[Jordan]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Dan]

This is the other way.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Sean Johnson]

So a lot of these other kind of, I guess, fringe influencers that are out there, quote, unquote, fringe. What are some, like, warnings you would give to them based off of what you've had to live through?

[Alex Jones]

I never put out sensational stuff for attention. I genuinely. And I've been wrong some and gotten things wrong and people on it were wrong, but never intentionally. I see a lot of people just jumping on bandwagons because the public has woken up. So they're being lied to, but they haven't woken up to exactly what's going on. So just because you got the general public that wasn't awake yet, it's kind of like there's A fire alarm. You wake up, you don't know where the fire is. You're kind of like in the dark. So you got to flip the light on and get your bearings. So we have the great awakening happening. It's part of the fourth turning. It was predicted decades ago. It's here. But you've got a lot of people now that don't have enough depth or sophistication or context. And I, and I see what they're doing and they will just jump on things just because they know it's clickbait. And whereas the globalists lie in the sea for their power and control, there's an organization to that and it's still very destructive, but because they've been proven to be liars. Now, Hillary Clinton could walk out on a blue sky day and say the sky is blue and people wouldn't believe her. And so then there's also a danger that people then think everything's a lie, everything's a conspiracy, everything's a scam. And then I get to hear, oh, you're the guy who thinks the earth's flat. Or you're the guy that thinks reptoids really run things. I'm like, no, that's somebody else.

[Dan]

No, no, no, no, no. Alex doesn't believe in reptoids or flat earth. Those are just the things his friends believe. And he does click bait interviews with them about those things.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And how dare people try to associate Alex with such silly ideas. He only covers the real hard hitting, not disputable facts. Like how God gave him 200 prophetic dreams about Gene Hackman in the year before his death and Alex just ignored them for some reason.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Or how God tells Alex what time it is in the middle of the night so he can prove that it's God talking when he tells Alex that he needs to slow down on the booze.

[Jordan]

And also that it's okay he doesn't tell people about God. Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

Alex absolutely lies and does clickbait on purpose, but I think that he doesn't even register it like that. No, I think he just doesn't care what's true or not. He's not lying to the audience because truth is irrelevant to how a headline can be used in order to push what he thinks is a larger, more important truth. Truth, which is that white Christian men should hold all the power in society.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And so I think in service of that larger truth, he allows himself to lie or imagines that God has given him permission.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I would say that, like whenever he says Those types of words. I think he's more meaning it in like a. This is a successful decision or a failure decision based upon how much money or influence I received from it. Right. So, yes, I've gotten some things wrong because people got mad at me and didn't give me more stuff afterwards.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

But all the things that I'm right 99% of the time, look, I'm rich.

[Dan]

Yeah. I think that there is, like. I think there's an irrefutable argument that comes down like this. He's the stupidest motherfucker in media.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

He's been wrong about almost everything fairly constantly.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

And he is still here.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

In this place where people are willing to take him seriously.

[Jordan]

Jesus Christ.

[Dan]

And that is a success in a way.

[Jordan]

I agree.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

I agree.

[Dan]

It has nothing to do with truth.

[Jordan]

Or falsity, but there's an achievement somewhere or. Or I guess, like. I mean, it's not really an achievement for water to fill the open space. Right. Like, if there's. If you pour water, it's going to fill up the open space. So I. Maybe he's just a fucking bowl of water that got poured in the right area and he's just. That's where he's going to be you.

[Dan]

Yeah. And people didn't do a good enough job of setting up whatever sandbags would be needed to stop this flooding or whatever.

[Jordan]

This is fucking Katrina.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

That's what it is.

[Dan]

So Alex talks about some good stuff that Trump's doing.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Which is surprising because there's a lot of really bad stuff that he seems to be ignoring.

[Alex Jones]

We have to get engaged and we have to be in charge by leadership.

[Jordan]

I do not.

[Alex Jones]

By deception, not by theft, not by lies, but by elections and by example and by quality, whether it's in businesses, corporations. Everything is a vote in this world. Yeah. And we have to hang our shingle out and we have to advertise that we are superior to these globalists and we want prosperity and goodwill. And Trump definitely wants that. He's definitely for a renaissance. I mean, you saw what he did two weeks ago. He pressured Saudi Arabia to basically double oil output. No one's ever done that. Now, now, now, now, think, people. He's got us as the number one producer in the world. We were number three under Obama. He cut it off, cranks that stuff to number one, beating Saudi Arabia. And then Biden comes in and prices double, which is the ultimate tax on people's energy cost. And then Trump skyrockets it back in just a few Months to number one producer again. And then he tells us oil companies, I want you to work even harder to cut prices. And then he goes to Saudi Arabia and says, I want to help the whole world. So even though this is going to hurt US Oil producers, the whole world's connected, which is true. I want to lower energy prices for everybody because this is a global problem. And my economist explained that to him. He already knew it. So you got the Saudis, actually, you're right, Collapses.

[Jordan]

We're screwed.

[Alex Jones]

So they did the biggest increase in oil production ever. Now, now that is how you fight inflation. Okay. Is the base level.

[Dan]

So the Saudi government did agree to increase their oil production in the last months of 2025, but part of that agreement was also to not increase in the first quarter of 2026.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

A lot of this does have the optics of a win for Trump, but the larger picture here is that OPEC understands that Russian under sanctions. So raising production is a move that's designed not necessarily to lower prices, but to be a more stabilizing on the supply end of the supply and demand.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

A lot of experts view it as a kind of risky move, but one that's not very surprising. More to the point, though, shouldn't Alex think this is the government getting involved in price fixing for commodities? I feel like everything about his political ideology should be against the federal government getting another country to change its energy policy in order to manipulate prices. This isn't the free market that Alex loves and yells about being so important all the time. Trump is very manipulating here.

[Jordan]

Yeah. With these types of things, it's when you know that you're so starved for a victory that what is actually a huge, horrible loss because in the moment seems like you've got a big fist up in the air. You call it a victory anyways. Like, there's no situation where in the long term, Trump has done the country good. You know, like, this is just a couple of days for him to go, oh, look at how great I am. And then we move on with getting shittier.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a. It's a little. It's a little blip.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

Of, hey, hurrah. But I don't. I don't know if it's as impactful as Alex wants it to be.

[Jordan]

Nope.

[Dan]

But you're right. It's because all the other surrounding stories are like, what the fuck?

[Jordan]

Yeah. I mean, it is. It is wild to consider that that part of the decision making for a government like the United States is. Includes what can I Make us look good about tomorrow on the paper.

[Dan]

Half of these fucking people who are in prominent positions are media figures, right?

[Jordan]

So of course it doesn't mean anything like, oh, do people get to have more roads? I don't care. No, that's six months from now.

[Dan]

Yeah, and who cares about roads? All that's important is whatever I can say in a media hit about roads.

[Jordan]

Exactly. I, I got a promise for a thousand roads. Great.

[Dan]

Cool.

[Jordan]

Great.

[Dan]

So Alex talks about how he would do this for free. He loves it. He loves the fight.

[Jordan]

I bet.

[Alex Jones]

And they, they got a non dischargeable debt, okay. Which means even with bankruptcy, it, it, it never goes away. So to them it's just a way to harass me and stalk me and have me be a hunted man and come after me. And they somehow think that means anything to me because. Because it doesn't. I mean, I will, I will live under the bridge. I mean, I will live on the roof of the new studio they're building. I'll live. Seriously, I'll. I'll live on a. On a couch. In fact, I'll do it for free. I'll do this for free. And there could be a charity and they, and I just give my food. I literally don't give a shit. So, I mean, they can put a gun to my head. I'm not going to stop. They think this does anything to me.

[Dan]

So. Alex in 1999 might have been willing to do this shit for free and live under a bridge, but hearing him say this in 2025 is a little much. It's important to understand that the reason that he set up these fake companies like Dr. Jones Naturals and the Alex Jones Network are to make sure that he can still profit from his very easy job. If he really didn't care about being poor or living under a bridge, then he wouldn't be doing everything he can to protect his assets and wealth from the bankruptcy, up to and including giving away his autonomy.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Alex can say that he would do this for free and that he would live under a bridge if it meant that he could get the truth out. But his actions are all in service of making sure that he's able to maintain his wealth and doesn't have to resort to some kind of harder job than being a guy who yells and makes shit up to people off. So I don't know. I find it, I find it unconvincing.

[Jordan]

You know, I guess it is technically true that you could say, right, I would live under a bridge. I'd do this for free. As long as you keep in parentheses, so long as I have exhausted every available fucking option to not do that, I will then do that.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Jordan]

But I will do every single thing, including die, before I do that. So would I really do that?

[Dan]

Right. And. And I'm pretending that I so committed to the fight and being this person that I am that I would suffer living under a bridge in order to stay that. And unfortunately, all of Alex's actions are like, okay, I'll give up on being that kind of a guy if I don't have to live under a bridge.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Dan]

So it's kind of. He's the opposite.

[Jordan]

Every temptation to give up a piece of his integrity was taken.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

That's why we have none left.

[Dan]

So go under that bridge.

[Jordan]

Yeah. So good luck.

[Dan]

Yeah. I think his riddles would be bad if he was a bridge troll.

[Jordan]

I mean, that's a good question. Would they be harder to answer because they would be more incomprehensible, or would they be easier to answer because they would be as easy to understand as he could?

[Dan]

I think they would be half and half and half. Some would be so fucking easy, right? I open a door, what am I? Like, you're a fucking knob.

[Jordan]

Right, right.

[Dan]

Or like a key.

[Alex Jones]

Or you're like.

[Dan]

It'd be so easy.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

And then others would just be, like, using concepts no one's ever heard of. And like, this is. There's no way I could guess this.

[Jordan]

Two men go down the road. The sky is green. What is your name?

[Dan]

Fred.

[Alex Jones]

Dead.

[Dan]

Ah, shit. It rhymes with Fred. Yeah, I think they're half and half.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Okay, so Sean asks Alex, like, hey, you're going out of business. How do you feel about that?

[Jordan]

How do you feel about that?

[Dan]

He feels great.

[Jordan]

Does he?

[Sean Johnson]

How do you feel about this?

[Alex Jones]

This will probably be shut down within about three weeks.

[Sean Johnson]

This next chapter in your life.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Sean Johnson]

They shut you down in the next three weeks.

[Alex Jones]

I mean, I told you, I said I feel great. Well, you tell them what I said with the audience.

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

Will you tell them what I said?

[Sean Johnson]

Well, I want you to tell them. I. I want. I want you to tell the audience like this. Like, you're literally turning the page in fours.

[Alex Jones]

Done.

[Sean Johnson]

Moving over to AJ Live. Right.

[Alex Jones]

Well, here's the deal. It'll make the term infowar, that's just generic, bigger than ever.

[Sean Johnson]

No, I understand.

[Alex Jones]

They'll have a website, but. No, absolutely. Alex shows network.

[Sean Johnson]

But I'm. I'm talking to you. Like, how do you feel closing a chapter a really long chapter in your life and moving to the future. Are you feeling reinvigorated?

[Alex Jones]

Is. I feel great.

[Sean Johnson]

Is this. Because it's obviously something you were trying everything to avoid, and now it's here.

[Alex Jones]

Well, I pledged to do it. And they want the name to misrepresent, act like they're me and a bunch of other harassment, which is fine. And when I say I'm in a fight and support the listeners, they. They buy so much [e-mail] and support us that I. I was 100% not pulling punches. I was fighting as hard as I could. But then there's something when, you know you've been in a rigged game like the movie Gladiator, but you still get them at the end. This is their defeat, and we're only going to get bigger out of this. And now they can target me all day instead of targeting my organization, trying to shut it down. Now I'll work for other people. Yeah. And then now the money can go not to legal, most of it, but to new crew and more hosts and going, like, basically 24 hours a day. At least 20 hours a day. So, yeah, I'm excited in that I fought the fought, left it on the field, you know, exposed them, won the court of public opinion, and now they basically. I got a tug of war. Think they pulled something out of my mouth or running away with. They don't know. It's a lit stick of dynamite. To paraphrase.

[Jordan]

Is that a tug of war?

[Alex Jones]

It's kind of like Wiley Coyote thinks he's gonna get the Roadrunner. It's the opposite. Yeah.

[Dan]

To paraphrase a cartoon.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Okay. All right. So, like, this whole thing that we've been through is a lot like Wile E. Coyote, not. Not a horrible tragedy that we have existed in for fucking ever. Oh, okay.

[Dan]

I don't think that Sean seems convinced by Alex's answer. I think that there is an internality that he'd like to discuss of, like, how is this affecting you, this change of era in your career, and Alex is just unwilling to give him an inch.

[Jordan]

I appreciate this because this is unexpected for this guy. He is a personal trainer, and somehow he's like, you are very shallow in an emotional sense. I would like you to open up and reveal more to me. I'm a sensitive soul.

[Dan]

Well, maybe like, some of the things you say when we're exercising or hiking, maybe there's something that you've let me in on and you are not giving any of it.

[Jordan]

Do you cry a lot when you work out. Is that what we're really finding out?

[Dan]

That would be great. Yeah, that would be great if there was just an intro to this interview. All right. I just need you to know Alex cries a lot.

[Jordan]

Cries every time we do fucking lat workouts. It's crazy.

[Dan]

So instead of crying, they laugh. Oh, and they laugh a little bit here. Reflecting on Alex's depositions in the Sandy Hook stuff.

[Alex Jones]

It feels good because I'm. Because men are supposed to crush tyranny. We're supposed to crush scum, and that's what we're supposed to do. And it feels good to be doing what I'm supposed to do. It just feels good.

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

Like a mountain. Mountain morning or a, you know, beautiful sunset. It just. Or, you know, your toddler, you know. You know, you know, run around the backyard, you're playing with bubbles or whatever. It just. It just feels like what you're supposed to do. Yeah. Just smash.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

That's when they asked me on the stand. The show trial, they go, is always being accurate and telling the truth your number one measure? I said, no. Crushing globalists because they were to come.

[Sean Johnson]

Up with, oh, such a legendary situation.

[Alex Jones]

It's funny. Remember, they go, you claim high powered politicians are smuggling and driving children. How outrageous. Tell us about that. I go, you mean like the Clintons and Epstein? It's like there's this. They just walk into this stuff, you.

[Dan]

Know, I think at this point, it would probably be best for Alex to not even bring up Epstein anymore. His actions have thoroughly demonstrated to anyone paying attention that he does not care about the actual crimes that were committed, and it's all just a prop that he uses to attack his enemies. So the less attention brought to it now, the better. He's taking a victory lap for bringing up Clinton and Epstein in his deposition many years ago, but seems uninterested in holding Trump in any way accountable for the very obvious connections that he has with a guy. By continuing to pretend to care about this when it involves Clinton, but giving Trump a full pass on it, you run the risk of the audience catching on that you really don't care about crimes against children. You're just happy to exploit people's revulsion about the subject for profit. And you kind of look like a real asshole.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Hey, but at least they're having fun with it. They are, you know, they're just doing. Laughing, you know, and I. I don't think it's fair personally to be Alex Jones having gone through the verbal lashings, the. The exsanguination via word that he's gone through to then be like, these stupid guys. Here's how I zing them. Here's how I zinged them.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

You know, like, I. I can't imagine some of those places that I remember doing in stand up. If a guy went home after that night and told his wife, like, I got him, I would want to have witnesses. I want audio. I want cameras. You did not get me, my friend.

[Dan]

Also, I recall that, like, the deposition when Alex brought up, like, Epstein, Mark was like, we will get back to that.

[Jordan]

Absolutely. We will be coming. Don't you worry.

[Dan]

No, we'll cover this topic a little bit later. But answer the question. Question that's in front of me.

[Jordan]

Absolutely.

[Dan]

It was not like, hey, don't talk about this.

[Jordan]

They're.

[Dan]

Oh, my God, I have been dunked upon.

[Jordan]

If you paid somebody 30 grand because people made fun of you too much, you don't get to talk about how you zing to the lawyers.

[Dan]

Yeah, I think that's. You should reflect.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So this is one part of Alex's. I think there's a media push. This is definitely something that was in his Tucker interview, too. This idea of, like, focusing on Todd Blanche. He's the evil guy.

[Jordan]

He's the bad guy.

[Dan]

Right. Ed Martin was trying to get Alex, like, the DOJ to help him go after Sandy Hook plaintiffs.

[Jordan]

Fuck it.

[Dan]

And then Todd Blanche was like, shut it down. You are not doing this.

[Jordan]

We're not that crazy. Are we that crazy?

[Dan]

So now Alex is on the warpath against Todd Blanche.

[Alex Jones]

He was against letting out J6ers. These guys are foamy.

[Jordan]

Can you believe it?

[Alex Jones]

Elitist leftists going, oh, Alex Jones's friend's a horrible person. We don't protect him. Peasant down there. I mean, it's disgusting. So listen, it's not about me, okay? It's that if obviously Todd Blanche wants to protect the FBI and DOJ because they ran this illegal crap against me, it's cover your ass, Todd. But then. And I waited a week, I said, well, they're just doing that to cover my ass. Let me see if he talks smack. Oh, he talks smack. Which is good, because I already knew what he was. And I'm like, good. You just for everybody just came out and said, alex Jones is scum. Good, good. We already knew that. We already knew what you thought you just told us who you are. Thanks for the confession, buddy boy. So you'll stack yourself up against me with the general public.

[Jordan]

It.

[Alex Jones]

And now everybody's investigating you and all the stuff's going to come out and we're going to get rid of you up there. We're going to get better people in, and if they don't toe the line for the truth, we'll get rid of them, too. It's called public pressure. People like, oh, God, he's dangerous. He can indict you. They've already tried a whole bunch. Whatever.

[Sean Johnson]

I've always been an active guy, training, pushing myself. But once I learned how Catherine forces your body into that fight or flight mode, I realized wrecking my recovery.

[Alex Jones]

Recovery.

[Sean Johnson]

I'd get the boost, but I couldn't really rest. That's when I came across methylene blue.

[Dan]

Now, obviously, like, I'm someone who's fairly opposed to advertising in most of its forms. Pretty much all of them. Pretty much all I will. I will be against. I'm not interested in it.

[Sean Johnson]

Yep.

[Dan]

I don't expect the rest of the world to follow exactly, like, the standards that I would set for myself in my behavior. I think that this is embarrassing. If you must do an ad, do an ad.

[Alex Jones]

Sure.

[Dan]

Don't do it like this. Don't. Don't edit it like this. Find a natural point in the episode to just like, okay, here is where the subject changes. We can insert the commercial there. This is.

[Alex Jones]

This.

[Dan]

And Tucker, it's. It's disrespectful.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I will say this. I think what happens with these things now. All right. Is I've heard of a few companies that have like an automated. We insert the ad.

[Dan]

I'm sure.

[Jordan]

You know what I'm saying?

[Dan]

I'm sure.

[Jordan]

So they probably don't even listen to the show. It's just like at minute blank second, this ad goes in.

[Dan]

Yeah. And I think automatic. And I think that that is horrifying.

[Jordan]

That that is maybe meaning you don't really give a shit about your show at all.

[Dan]

Yeah, I would. I. And. And, God, I mean, obviously we don't get any ad revenue from anything, but, like, if some platform was inserting commercials on our shit, I would hope someone would tell us so I could, like, address that. I mean, like, if. If I were creating the show like this, I would feel really bad about this being the product. Like, I understand you've got to insert the ads wherever they go.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Have a little bit of thought about it.

[Alex Jones]

It.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Like back in the day. Back in the day of broadcast television, you would plan around commercial breaks.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And it's better.

[Jordan]

You would know way in advance.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

You would have segments that were almost religiously to the second.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Jordan]

Now. Yep.

[Dan]

We need to go back to broadcast tv.

[Jordan]

I mean, I don't. How do I. Because I don't want to be too much of one of those guys. But. But there is just a craft to making a show, man. Like, if you're not interested in making a good show, if you're not even interested in asking people who make good show, like, hey, should I cut off things mid word? Yeah. You know, if you.

[Dan]

If part of your process for making a show is understanding and accepting the possibility that a passionate rant that Alex is in the middle of could get cut off by a commercial. I think you don't care about the product.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I think you don't care about the show.

[Jordan]

How could you. How could you sell me on caring about the show?

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

I don't know what word you're going to finish the sentence with.

[Dan]

What if Alex was just about to confess to a murder?

[Jordan]

Absolutely. Absolutely. We got to do that. Sorry. Nothing we can do. It's not like this is not a live product at all and something that we can edit over and over and over again.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

It shows a lack of care.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Just care about making a show.

[Dan]

Yeah. He's a personal trainer. I'm sure he cares about that.

[Jordan]

I mean, that's fair.

[Dan]

So Sean asks Alex about Charlie Kirk's murder.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And Alex, unprompted, I think he brings up something about Tucker Carlson that I think is very illegal, if true.

[Sean Johnson]

What do you think about the whole Charlie situation going on right now with all the people and all the question marks surrounding this? And a lot of people are not believing the narrative.

[Alex Jones]

Well, when I was up at Tucker's last Monday in Maine for his show, he was going to dinner that night, about to jump on a jet up to remain over to D.C. to have dinner with the vice president and with Charlie's widow, Erica Kirk. And I was talking about all these things with him, and he said, well, the way Cash Patel and them haven't been releasing more videos and more documents and putting their narrative out. Out. He's talked to him in Mangino, and they're like, well, we don't want to give the case up. And he. Tucker's been first job was a crime reporter. He goes, you guys always put out the narrative of what's there. That's not true. He said, that's what's generating all of this. And, you know, he literally just had. Did you tell me that? Was that off record? God, they tell you so much stuff. I better just not say it. But the point is Tucker's doll in everything. I mean. I mean, everything thing little more than meets the eye with that guy. So he's like, the secret. I mean, this is known now. He's like, the secret. U.S. ambassador of the world flies around constantly. World leaders meet with Trump messages and.

[Dan]

Oh, man, that's super illegal.

[Jordan]

I mean, I can't think of anything less legal than unofficial ambassadors to the world from the President of the United States.

[Dan]

Right. And the sort of leaders that he seems to be sending messages to are, like, Putin.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I mean, listen, Kissinger was evil, but at least he was hired to do the evil job. Right. You know, he wasn't, like, suddenly there like, oh, I'm just Kissinger. I'm just here causing hell all the way.

[Dan]

You know, he's in an appointed position that is theoretically, like Congress can do something. You know, it's not like we sent Dan Cortez over to negotiate with the Contras.

[Jordan]

At the very least, later on, that stuff will be written down somewhere or there will be a recording of something. You know, something not just like, oh, Tucker was there. That's no good. I don't want that for history. No.

[Dan]

And it also, like, I don't know the extent to which I believe this, but if you're someone like Alex who's distrustful of power.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Dan]

And you have a guy who has a weird media show.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And he also is the ambassador to the world.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Carrying out of power, carrying secret messages to world leaders on behalf of the President of the United States.

[Jordan]

Right, right, right, right.

[Dan]

I would. I'd be careful.

[Jordan]

You know, if you. If you were carrying secret messages from the president, a notoriously elderly man who says and talks a lot of shit that he doesn't mean and won't take back or will take back at a moment's notice, maybe you think I could change some of the words to what I want them to be?

[Dan]

Well, sure. That is a possibility, but I think more realistically sure, if you're this guy, if you're Tucker.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And. And like, Alex is doing an interview on his trainers podcast where he reveals that you tell him a bunch of stuff that maybe he can't repeat publicly.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Maybe you stop telling him stuff.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I mean, on the other hand, there would. There is a little bit of a waggle. There's a little bit of a dick waggle to just be like, yeah, go on your trainer's podcast and say all kinds of national secrets.

[Alex Jones]

No one will believe you.

[Dan]

I got attacked by a demon.

[Jordan]

Right, exactly. Believe Whatever you want. You can't trust me.

[Dan]

So all of this just has a little bit of that feel of like Alex has been seduced by the cool kid crowd.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And he doesn't even realize like how much he's unrecognizable from his past self.

[Alex Jones]

JD Vance is good friends with them. When I was up at TPUSA last year, three months before Vance was announced, I was back there with Vance and Kirk in the green room. They called me in there. Oh. And I was talking to. Man's been a lister for a long time. I was like, hey, I hear your probability. He goes, yeah, I got it. And even he didn't even say don't tell people. Just, yeah, I got it. It's me. I was like, wow. That's the weird thing is they just, I'm like, I did ask. Is that on record? Off record. So I went ahead and put out and said, oh, J.D. vance, he's got it. But they're old buddies back there drinking ginger ale and high fiving and watching YouTube clips and X clips of, of people. Like they're like us, then fire them.

[Sean Johnson]

I drink beer.

[Alex Jones]

And, and, and so, and so. I mean these people are like, like goody tissues. Yeah. I mean like there's the rumor, oh, Don Jr. Is a drug addict. No. I mean Trump doesn't even like his kids drinking. So the point is, is that, is that these are, I mean, Erica Trump is an actress. Erica Trump Trump has done thousands of these events. So when her husband gets killed, she gets up and executes and does a great job for him because that's what you do in those times.

[Dan]

It's an interesting slip that Alex calls Erica Kirk, Erica Trump, twice.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Let's not think about it.

[Jordan]

I don't want to think about anything anymore.

[Dan]

Also, I love the angle that Don Jr. Can't possibly be on drugs because his dad doesn't want him to.

[Jordan]

Nobody's ever made more sense to me.

[Dan]

He's 47 years old. He's not a fucking teenager.

[Jordan]

Somebody's his ancient father doesn't want their middle aged child drinking. So obviously they don't.

[Dan]

Yeah. He, he can't possibly.

[Jordan]

Of course not.

[Dan]

I like, I think that there is a weird prism of infantilism.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

That. That Alex works through.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is a, there is an amount of like if the world works like the way you think it does, it should collapse. Yet somehow because the world works the way it does, you're allowed to think that the world works the way you think it does. And it doesn't collapse. Wild.

[Dan]

Yep. I think that he wants Trump to be his dad.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And I think he projects the dadliness onto everybody else, like, he's my dad, to whatever. And that's sad and gross.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But it makes sense. I mean, it runs through, like, Tucker's like, dad's home. He's gonna thank you kind of shit. I mean, we can't want a dad.

[Jordan]

We can't complain too much. Just about, I would say, maybe 75 to 80% of all great literature kind of rolls around daddy issues. So, you know, what are you gonna do?

[Dan]

No, I get it. I think that. I think having issues with your parents is totally fine. And I think that there's better ways to channel it than bringing back the Nazi party.

[Jordan]

Write a book.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

But not one that brings back the Nazi party. Don't write Mein Kampf.

[Dan]

No.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dan]

So Sean brings up that, like, you know, Trump didn't. He didn't seem all that emotional about Charlie Kirk getting killed because he doesn't give a shit. Well, no, no, no, no, no. Alex explains. He cried privately.

[Jordan]

Oh, of course. Where you can't see it.

[Alex Jones]

So Trump was devastated, looked like hell. You go back. He was like. And then Trump gets over things. They're like, oh, how are you feeling about Charlie? And a week later, he's like, like, well, it's. It's okay. Look how great we're rebuilding this over here. Yeah.

[Sean Johnson]

Everybody flipped out.

[Alex Jones]

Well, but Trump. That's what Trump does is he moves on. He's, you know, he's not like a liberal.

[Sean Johnson]

Oh, God.

[Dan]

Oh, help me.

[Jordan]

Tallest building in New York.

[Alex Jones]

I believe people cry behind the scenes, and that's just what people do. I mean, I have to tell you. Well, the implication is. And I've heard this, and I want to be very clear, people have a right to say this. Just like I had a right to say what I wanted about Sandy Hook. I just didn't even say the things they said I said. It's the First Amendment. Okay, so what you're getting at, and let's just say it is what now, five weeks into this, what people were telling me, two weeks into it, all these Green Berets, Delta Force sniper experts, medics, unless they release the HD and we see a bunch of blood on the ground, and I'm sure that's the case, and other stuff going on here, they're saying, Charlie Kirk didn't get killed. And. And. And. And that's. That's what all this builds towards. I. I believe he got Shot from a higher angle. I the first to get the information from the head of tpusa because he put out a little bit and he called me. When I said it sounded crazy that a 3006 didn't go through, he said, no, it came down from an angle and went down. His vertebrae bounce back up. Shrapnel. That's now been said by the doctor, and they say they're going to release it at the end of the month. The autopsy. That better happen. So I'm giving them benefit of the doubt. I don't think the doctor's lying and I don't think Charlie Kirk's best buddy's lying.

[Dan]

And is he still.

[Alex Jones]

But people have a right to say the moon's made of cheese. People have a right to say, you know, that didn't happen. That's an American right. And you brought this up to me. You don't believe it. There's got to be some other explanations. But what you and I, what you said to me two, three weeks ago is what. During the breaks when I'm talking to these Green Berets and all these guys are like. They're like, man, it just, you know, if they don't release that hd or at least, you know.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

Show. Because. Because if there's not blood down there and it's just a squib pack. Because that's how they do it in stunts. Is. It pops and then pops the back for the movie to make it look like it's real.

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

And I'm not saying that happened. Alex Jones does it again. But here's what's different.

[Jordan]

You're doing it again.

[Alex Jones]

There are a bunch of people saying this weeks ago. Nobody's even attacking them because nobody believes anything anymore.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah. No. Yeah. I mean, I guess no one does believe anything anymore.

[Jordan]

How could you when you're listening to that man speak?

[Dan]

Exactly.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

So apparently, I think Sean doesn't believe that Kirk got killed.

[Jordan]

Yeah. So he's still alive. Or somebody else or the government killed him or.

[Dan]

I think he must still be alive.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

But I don't know what the end game is in that.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Now I'm interested to know what. When does Charlie Kirk coming back like Gandalf the White solve a problem for us?

[Dan]

Well, I mean, he could be the antichrist.

[Jordan]

I mean, C.K.

[Dan]

Oh, boy. Louie Free Associating, baby.

[Jordan]

Let's just do it. Let's just go. Let's just roll.

[Dan]

I. I think that this might dovetail with that idea that, you know, like. Is it Kash Patel Said, I'll see you in Valhalla. And, like, that's the resort in New Zealand or whatever.

[Jordan]

Right, Right. Oh, that's right. I remember that one.

[Dan]

Yeah. So I think that might dovetail with this. Like, Charlie retired, essentially, and they made a martyr out of him or whatever for Trump and the right wing to use.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

I feel like that he doesn't fully explain what the reason for faking the death would be, but that's the best I can come up with.

[Jordan]

Okay. So the idea is, here's our plan. All right? I'm coming to you. Here's my pitch. Charlie, we need a murder or we need a martyr.

[Dan]

A murder martyr.

[Jordan]

A murder martyr. We need a martyr to get murdered. And. But we don't want to kill you for some reason.

[Dan]

You're too cool.

[Jordan]

We kill so many people according to these people.

[Dan]

You know so much about us that we want to keep you alive.

[Jordan]

Probably. It makes the most sense, and we want to give you more incriminating evidence.

[Dan]

Like the fact that you're alive.

[Jordan]

Absolutely. And that we've made a big deal out of it.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

So then, yeah, we'll just fly you to New Zealand.

[Alex Jones]

I don't.

[Jordan]

This is. This feels like what people really believe whenever you're like, oh, they want to live on the farm, like, no, that dog's dead, man.

[Dan]

Yeah. Because, like, Charlie's power and leverage, like, he ceases to have the same power that he had the second everyone thinks he's dead.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

But he has a very different power.

[Jordan]

Massive power.

[Dan]

And the only thing he has power over is you.

[Jordan]

That's the problem. If I'm leaving, if I'm a guy who's against loose end.

[Alex Jones]

Mm.

[Jordan]

I'm not. I'm.

[Dan]

I'm.

[Jordan]

I'm blowing up New Zealand before I'm moving him to New.

[Dan]

All the shit that Charlie is useful for alive stops once he's believed to be dead.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So, like, the only way that this conspiracy would make sense is if they, like, told him they were gonna fake the death.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And then actually shoot it.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

That's. And then that kind of. But.

[Jordan]

But even then, that would. That would only work if. Then you're the one telling Shawn Johnson this information. Like, hey, we didn't actually kill him.

[Dan]

I don't know, man.

[Jordan]

And Shawn Johnson believes you.

[Dan]

I don't. I don't see a world where there's a. Like, a reason to do this.

[Jordan]

No.

[Dan]

Like, to fake Charlie's death. I don't see who. Who has an advantage there.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I could see it. Being some sort of dadaist terrorism, you know, like a true. This will be inexplicable for all time.

[Dan]

Joker. Talking about Joker.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I don't know if that's inexplicable.

[Dan]

He's crazy, man.

[Jordan]

I think it's fairly explicable.

[Dan]

No, I think. Okay, so I. I am willing to say that Charlie is probably more useful now than he was before.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Like he is an incredibly potent symbol and martyr that he's folks can use.

[Jordan]

They're having a grand time.

[Dan]

I don't think that justifies killing him. And it wouldn't be served by faking killing him.

[Alex Jones]

Right.

[Jordan]

Well, there's just.

[Dan]

It doesn't make sense.

[Jordan]

I mean, you could. If you've got him already on the we can kill you tip. Right. Then pick a better time for it. There's. I mean, I'm not saying he's not a murder, but it didn't feel like there was that much to change the world with in July or whatever, you know?

[Dan]

Well, I mean, it was deeply traumatic.

[Jordan]

Sure, it was deeply traumatic and some like, professors lost their jobs and shit. But.

[Dan]

Well, yeah, I don't, I just, I don't. I. I get the sense that this is what happens when you talk to a conspiracy theorist's trainer.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Is that this is the kind of shit that you entertain. It's like, oh, yeah, they fake Charlie's death. Like who. What do you. I mean, you're forcing a conspiracy.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Like, I mean, it's not even like your conspiracy is they. They' after the other side in some way. Right. So it's not even like they, they got a congressperson fired. Right. Like, or something like that.

[Dan]

I don't know.

[Jordan]

They didn't get a high value target out of it.

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I don't know. So Alex, he doesn't want to talk about. He doesn't want to. He doesn't want to say like that this is fake or. Right. So what instead he wants to do is prompt Sean to discuss the anomalies.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

No, no. I mean, look, Trump got shot. I know real stuff when I see it. We all know fake stuff when we see it. That way you tell fake Charlie Kirk. Blasted. But I get why people look at all the weird anomalies because it all points towards that.

[Dan]

You.

[Alex Jones]

You do a good job laying them out. You want to lay them out.

[Sean Johnson]

What? As far as what?

[Alex Jones]

Well, proviso. Proviso. You're not saying this. You're just recounting what you know.

[Sean Johnson]

Well, like, listen, when something like this happens, you have to look at what are the possibilities of. Of, like, the actual motive and who did this.

[Jordan]

Right?

[Sean Johnson]

So in my opinion, it's like, okay, option number one, what they're telling us is absolutely correct. It was Tyler Robinson. He shot him from the roof, and everything else is just weird. The second option is there was a second gunman, and maybe they used Tyler as a decoy. And we're kind of seeing what looks to be. I mean, to me, it looks like they're covering something up. And I don't quite know why. I don't know why they took the narrative and ran with that so quickly. I don't know why Erica Kirk was giving Tyler forgiveness so quickly after the investigation was still ongoing. Why are you giving forgiveness to somebody that just killed your. Your husband and you don't even know if he's the actual guy? They haven't finished the investigation.

[Dan]

So I feel like this is a really good encapsulation of how Alex likes to do business. He talks to a person who's willing to say some crazy shit, and then if the audience is into it and it drives traffic and sales, it slowly becomes the infowars position. While Alex pretends to have not endorsed these ideas himself, Sean is painfully uninteresting in this interview. And this anomaly that he comes up with is idiotic. Erica was forgiving the guy who killed her husband because that was what she was required to do to perform the character of a saintly Christian, which is the brand that she's inherited from Charlie.

[Alex Jones]

Yep.

[Dan]

Sean is acting like there needs to be a conviction in the courts before you forgive someone, which is fucking dumb. If this is part of your group of arguments why you think maybe Charlie's death was fake, you are grasping at straws, and that makes sense. You're a conspiracy theorist's trainer.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I do like the. I do like the presentation. All right, the way I see it, there's three options. Option number one, they're telling the truth. Option number two, they're lying. Those are all three options?

[Dan]

Well, no, there is a third option, okay. That he's going. He's going to express, which is just. That it's fake.

[Jordan]

Oh.

[Dan]

Well, the second one is they're covering something up, like a second shooter. And then the third one is like, it's all fake.

[Jordan]

Right. But here's the. Here's the thing about possibilities. Right? He doesn't have a reason for these being possibilities.

[Dan]

Nope.

[Jordan]

These are the three things that I'm thinking. Yeah, right.

[Dan]

Here's the. Here's the three Fantasies that I've decided cover all possible scenarios. Yeah, cool.

[Jordan]

You haven't explained why it's possible there was a second shooter.

[Dan]

Erica forgave him.

[Jordan]

See, that's not an explanation for why there's a second shooter.

[Alex Jones]

Huh?

[Jordan]

What? It could. I mean, Erica, it could be evidence that something happened. But why is second shooter a possibility in this situation?

[Dan]

It's just weird. It stinks that. I mean, there's too many anomalies.

[Jordan]

That's fine. But that would mean there's more than three possibilities at the very least.

[Dan]

There's so many possibilities.

[Jordan]

If something stinks, it could be anything, right?

[Dan]

Yeah, but I think that. I think that the three possibilities actually do kind of COVID everything because they're so vague and meaningless.

[Jordan]

Right, right.

[Dan]

There's like they're telling the truth.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

The government is, which covers everything. Well, that covers one thing.

[Alex Jones]

Right?

[Dan]

Then there's like, there's a second shooter and they're covering that. That all the. All those kinds of. There's a half cover up, right? That's one slice, right? And then the other slices. It's a full cover up.

[Alex Jones]

Right.

[Jordan]

We're doing Goldilocks and the Three Conspiracies.

[Dan]

But a million stars could be in that night sky.

[Jordan]

Right, right, right. It's. It's the hierarchy of infinities. Yeah.

[Dan]

So there's the third possibility that everything is fake.

[Sean Johnson]

The last option. And there's only one option that that answers every single question mark that all of these influencers have that. That are floating out, all of these theories and all these video angles and everything. There's only one answer that answers all of it. And that this is fake. This was all staged. And that like.

[Alex Jones]

Why did you send people their houses to arrest them?

[Sean Johnson]

What's that?

[Alex Jones]

Why did you send people to his house to arrest his family? What do you. Why you pee on their grips?

[Jordan]

Are you falling asleep?

[Alex Jones]

No, no, no. That's what they'll.

[Jordan]

Are you drunk?

[Alex Jones]

They're not.

[Dan]

Not.

[Alex Jones]

Kirk's not gonna do that. But imagine now why'd you send people their houses, harass them? All you did was ask questions. Why'd you peel the grave?

[Sean Johnson]

Well, it's.

[Alex Jones]

Why you make $300 million off that. It's like you just pay $300 million by saying that. Yeah, no, but that's how it works. Yeah, but see how the world's moved on? That's totally reasonable. And a bunch of the military people are saying what you're saying. They're saying, looks real. When he gets shot, where's the blood and then all the rest of it. And then where's all the footage of him on the roof? They got all these cameras. Why are we showing only him running and then all the weird anomalies there? Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Johnson]

What does he go to?

[Alex Jones]

The point is, it's good you're ask questions. It's American. You're asking those questions. And it's not just. Okay. We're supposed to do that. Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Johnson]

Even if we're wrong, it's okay. Dig into this fight. As long as you're not going to hinder the investigation that they're doing on Tyler for this case.

[Jordan]

That's your bar.

[Sean Johnson]

Like, right. You don't want to hurt the case, like if.

[Alex Jones]

Because if. All I know is, though, since when can he. Like, he's supposedly confessed three times in all this. Yeah. Why would they put the confession out? They would. They always do. Yeah.

[Dan]

On certain level. Yeah. If the families of turning point workers like Erica Kirk get harassed by people who've been incited by Sean's coverage of the shooting, then they should be able to take legal action against him. He's not just playing around with interesting ideas. The interesting ideas he's throwing around require that Erica Kirk be involved in gigantic crimes.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

These aren't just theories, they're also accusations.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And that's the piece of this that folks like Alex have worked so hard to obscure the implications of their dumb fuck conspiracies. That's why people harass those folks.

[Jordan]

If. If I say, why did Erica forgive him so fast? Right. I am not asking how is she capable of this forgiveness. Yeah, exactly. It is. It is like, okay, well, obviously Erica's in on it. Is she paid for it or is she a happy idiot? It's. It's that.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

It's like, are you in on it or are you a useful idiot?

[Alex Jones]

It.

[Jordan]

I have now gotten rid of all.

[Dan]

That one part quite obvious that you're in on it.

[Jordan]

Yeah. How dare you say there's three possibilities? There's two possibilities. A half cover up and a whole cover up. This is not a fucking original recipe chicken.

[Dan]

There's only one. That one explanation that explains everything. Like, think about it on this level.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I don't know. I don't know what the end game is here. Faking Charlie's death.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But just on a really simple level, you have defrauded thousands of people with that memorial service that they held. The president spoke at the fraud memorial service.

[Jordan]

Yeah. At the very least, he should be morally judged for such behavior.

[Dan]

Well, no. And I think there's crimes involved in that.

[Jordan]

I would have to assume. So it's like a fully. It's. It's like they isolate this incident so that this incident can be analyzed and all of these theories can be made. But these theories cannot have any effect on the larger world, despite the fact that this incident only exists because of its relationship to the larger world.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

It's removing continuity of reality.

[Jordan]

Right, right, right. Where it's like, no, no, no. It's okay for Erica to have been in on it. It's not. You can't be in on a massive cover up and still be a good guy.

[Dan]

Yeah. And it would stand to reason that the entire Trump administration is also in on it.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

And everyone involved in the memorial, you.

[Jordan]

Would have to be.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

On another level, though, like, yeah, who cares if dipshits are asking stupid questions that aren't really questions?

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

If they aren't interfering with the investigation, all they're doing is wasting everyone's time.

[Jordan]

That's true.

[Dan]

There's no law against wasting time.

[Jordan]

No.

[Dan]

The consumers of this media would be wise to ask themselves, at what point do questions demand answers and at what point are they not really questions? The game that Alex and Sean engage in is pretending to be asking questions that demand immediate answers, but the answer that satisfies their question and gets them to say, well, that explains that that doesn't exist. If the police don't release the confession, then that's suspicious. Right. If they release the confession, why'd it take so long?

[Jordan]

Because it's suspicious.

[Dan]

If there's an explanation for the delay, then why does this one word in the confession seem weird? There's always going to be another question to replace the last one. Because these aren't sincere questions. They're excuses to believe something idiotic while still pretending to be rational and making money off it. And it's really important, I think, if you're consuming this kind of media, to understand that dynamic and reject people who play those games.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

I've got a new. Here's another thing I've got. All right, here's my new. Here's my new thought. Can't restrict free speech.

[Dan]

Trump has.

[Jordan]

Right, legal, whatever, legally, I am going to. To tack on to free speech. Right. If you say it's the First Amendment, you have to say the entire First Amendment. That is now a rule. That's a law. I'm not going to restrict your free speech. You can say First Amendment all you want, but if you say First Amendment, you have to say for the government shall not make a law infringing upon the rate for people. You have to do the whole thing.

[Dan]

And then you have to recite pie down to 20 decimal points.

[Jordan]

We're going to amplify this to the point where people who say it's the first amendment aren't allowed to talk about at all.

[Dan]

Yeah. And then you have to. The periodic table, you have to say.

[Jordan]

Something about absolutely what noble gas is. Right. Are there seven, are there four?

[Dan]

It's so sad that we both immediately just went to the noble gas.

[Jordan]

The noble gases. What are you going to go to fucking uranium?

[Dan]

I don't know. So Candace Owens has been blaming Israel for Charlie's death.

[Jordan]

Sure, why not?

[Dan]

And so Sean wants to know what Alex thinks about. About what Candace has been up to.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And Alex doesn't realize what he's asking.

[Sean Johnson]

Oh, what do you think about Candace? What do you think about her, her, her stance on all this right now? Cuz she has backed herself into a corner and she's got the claws out. She's fighting.

[Alex Jones]

Well, that's. I like Candace Owens. You know, we really discovered her.

[Sean Johnson]

I like her too.

[Alex Jones]

I was one of the, I was like Paul Watson, my host and we were the first to really ever get her on air.

[Sean Johnson]

You know her origin story, the red, what is it?

[Alex Jones]

Red.

[Sean Johnson]

Red pill black or black pill red?

[Alex Jones]

Well, she was gonna start a social media for women and, and then liberals wanted to get control of it. They were false flagging her, threatening her like white supremacists and stuff. But it was the women in the group doing it. So. So that's kind of how she woke up as a liberal because they were like Jussie smolletting her, you know, they were staging so stuff. Interesting. So. And my lawyer Norm Pattis from Sandy Hook up in Connecticut's where she's from, he actually represented her and got her a big settlement where she did go through racist stuff in high school and stuff. So I know all about Candace Owens. I think she is a good person. I think she means what she says.

[Sean Johnson]

And you think there's any truth to what she's saying?

[Alex Jones]

Well, you've got to give me the latest because I know, all I know is this. She came out a few weeks ago and it's like he was shot from the front and it goes through the vertebrae and all that. And everybody's like, oh my God, Candace Owens. I'm not lessening it, I'm like, I broke that like three, three weeks before that.

[Jordan]

That's what's important.

[Alex Jones]

I'm glad that whatever she says, everybody pays a lot of attention to it because that was true what she said. And then they had. Because I said tails was the tpusa head Head guy says, oh, you know, he's got my number. He calls me up 30 minutes after I do a post on X. And he's like, oh, you know, 30 odd six. And I said, no way at that angle. And then so he called me and gave me the full details of what later came out. And what he said, you know, is what Candace is saying, you know, actually happened. My point is she's going off what they say. We haven't gotten the coroner's report yet. Does that make sense?

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

So she's talking to the same people. Yeah.

[Sean Johnson]

She thinks this was an Israeli hit. Correct.

[Alex Jones]

Oh, is that what you're getting at?

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Oh, oh, oh, ouch. Gonna have to redo that one. Can we take that from the top stuff about it?

[Alex Jones]

And I guess day one, everybody said it was Israel. So my thing is. The Israel thing is something that sucks all the oxygen out of the room. So I wasn't being coy earlier when I'm like, what is she talking about? She said so much stuff. She said.

[Dan]

She said so much.

[Jordan]

This lady talks so much shit.

[Dan]

I was. I didn't know. Clear question you were asking me.

[Jordan]

Sean, I need you to understand something. You're the person who listens to all of us talking shit.

[Dan]

You're the conspiracy theorists trainer.

[Alex Jones]

Right?

[Jordan]

We talk shit. We don't listen to each other talk shit. Why would we talk? Why would we listen?

[Dan]

Mostly just know when something becomes a problem.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I'm an annoyance.

[Dan]

Yeah. So I like the. I like the. You know, I discovered her. You know, she stole that news from me. I mean, I'm trying to ask you about her saying that the murder was an Israeli hit job.

[Jordan]

You know, I'm great.

[Alex Jones]

Have you. Have you.

[Jordan]

Have you considered how great I am in this question about somebody else?

[Dan]

Yeah. Pretty great.

[Jordan]

I'm pretty great. I'm pretty great. What did she do? I'm sorry.

[Dan]

So one of the things that's really great about Alex is that, you know, you have people like Candace Owen saying that the murder was. Is a real hiit job.

[Jordan]

Sure. Cause why not?

[Dan]

And, you know, that's a representation of how Candace is a sincere actor in this space who has criticism. Criticisms about Israel.

[Jordan]

She believes it.

[Dan]

Now, Alex, early in his career, learned how to tell anti Semites from people who have concerns.

[Jordan]

That's good. Yeah, I bet he did.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Alex Jones]

Okay. But there's all sorts of groups and organizations like that, but I don't sit there at night jacking off. Like, I hate to choose. You know, that stuff just gets really old, so. Well, that's what a lot of these guys that hate them do. I mean, they literally look, maybe I have an allergy to it because I've been on there 30 years plus, and I was on air just a few months, and, like, I'd have guys come down the studio and go, you're talking about the New World Order, but, you know, it's the Jews. And here's some pamphlets. We want to come on your show. They'd be up there the next week. I've been on here, like, a month, 31 years ago. They're like, I noticed you didn't call me back. I guess you work for the Jews.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

And my friend was like, no, I hadn't read the stuff yet. It's like, in the back of my car. I'm like, yeah, Joe's is kind of a Jewish name. We'll be watching you, boy. So my first experience was like, these people are like, just. I was like, well, I. They're the worst ambassadors there are, because they're the little club that's good, and everyone else is not pure. And all leads, all roads lead to the Jews.

[Dan]

Smash cut to Alex hanging out with Nick Fuentes.

[Jordan]

Fuentes.

[Dan]

Shaving a Hitler mustache. With Shawn Johnson.

[Jordan]

With Shawn Johnson.

[Dan]

As a. As a bet. So far, I think that what he's describing about this Nazi that he interacted with a month into his career is literally exactly the same thing that happened with Nick. Alex was not being hard enough on Jewish people. And Nick took to his show and said that Alex was a fat drunk who got a call from Israel and he worked for the Jews, and then now they're good buddies.

[Jordan]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Alex Jones]

What an idiot.

[Jordan]

It's just one of those patterns. It's just. It's just like, Alex, Joe Rogan's fucking liar, and I'll gut him like a pig. And now we're best friends, and it's.

[Dan]

Their kids on the playground. They just need to blow off some steam sometimes, man, these guys. Yep.

[Jordan]

I hope Shawn Johnson is a really good trainer.

[Dan]

I mean, look, I don't know how much of it is all organic, you know, like. Like, I don't. I don't know if Alex got on the. On the shot or whatever. I don't know. Yeah, he did lose a lot of weight. I mean, and, like, if Shawn Johnson is the trainer responsible for that now he's not bad.

[Jordan]

No, I think, I think that might be where we're. I think this might be our issue. Right. He succeeded too well at his good job. That made him think I could also do Alex's job.

[Alex Jones]

Right.

[Jordan]

I'm skinny, he's skinny now, now he can do a radio show, I can do a radio show. Makes sense.

[Dan]

I think that there's a lot of people who are in like some proximity to Alex that get the idea that what he does is super easy. Because it is.

[Alex Jones]

Right.

[Dan]

They just don't realize that without the past, like the bullshit of the past, like 20 years.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

No one cares, right, about the easy shit that Alex is doing. You're just another streamer, right.

[Jordan]

It is like, it is super easy because I'm me. It's impossible for you.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

It's impossible to stand out as conspiracy theorist trainer.

[Alex Jones]

Right.

[Dan]

So Alex, he lists off here some, some suspects that could be behind the assassination of Charlie Kirk. And I think if you have this wide of a net, you don't really know anything.

[Alex Jones]

You know, for me, Candace can, you know, talk about how she thinks Israel in it, and that's the big popular thing to think. And I think she really believes that it's kind of like, you know those ink blots where you kind of see what you want in it?

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

And I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that a weird RNC alliance that wanted control of the group because it was bigger than the RNC now and bigger than CPAC with Israel, you know, didn't use Israeli operatives because they're very competent assassination to do it. That that's a possibility. Pure speculation. The DNC knows he got two and a half million people to vote for Trump was the reason he won. And they're the ones calling for him to die, celebrating when he died. And then you got all these other trans tifa, trans Antifa out blasting people every week and, you know, shooting up ice. So I'm like, I'm like, yeah, dnc, rnc, Israel alliance makes sense. And then could it have been? I mean, if you had to sit there and start speculating, could the ChiComs do it?

[Dan]

Now? Here's the twist. You actually don't have to engage in rampant, idiotic speculation about every event that happens, desperately chasing cliques and attention. If you really think that it's possible that all these different groups could have been involved in an elaborate assassination plot against Charlie, then you have no evidence about any of it. Cuz you sure as shit haven't ruled out any of these suspects.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

The truth is that Alex has nothing to say, which is why he has to say so much.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

This is so dumb.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

You don't have to do this. And it's kind of embarrassing, too.

[Jordan]

I mean, it's what it should really prove, backwards thinking. Right. Is how few people, especially nations, want to assassinate anybody. Right. Because if I'm a nation, like, say I'm just like a regular ass. Say I'm Luxembourg, France. Right. How do I want to get on the map? I'm just going to start assassinating people and they'll blame it on Israel. Like, there's no. Why wouldn't you?

[Dan]

Well, Luxembourg, France works for Israel.

[Jordan]

Right. But this is what I'm saying. Like, if you do some shit now, it will be blamed on Israel by these crazy people.

[Dan]

I mean, it's exactly what Alex was saying earlier. No one believes anything anymore.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And I think that one of the things that's really shocking too, is that, like, I don't think that Charlie Kirk's assassination was that hard to pull off.

[Jordan]

It looked very straightforward.

[Dan]

I don't believe that you would need elaborate conspiracy in order to have done that.

[Jordan]

Nope.

[Dan]

And that reveals a really, like a kind of comforting thing and that like. Like this could be happening all the time.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And the fact that it's not kind of means that most people don't want to kill each other.

[Jordan]

Nobody wants to assassinate anybody.

[Dan]

Right. And I think that that is, I hate to say a silver lining of this event, but it is kind of like, well, this would be happening a lot more if the world that Alex lives in was the real world.

[Jordan]

Right. Oh, and not just that, but. But every, like the most common part of all major political assassinations is very simple and straightforward. Any. Any complications? Almost every one of them is foiled. The moment, even, even if you've got two guns and you're trying to kill Andrew Jackson, it's going to get foiled.

[Dan]

Right. Once you call the Chinese.

[Jordan]

Right. What are you talking about? It's done. You're done. It's over. You have a gun, you're a guy, you walk up close, you shoot him. That's as good as you're going to do.

[Dan]

Yeah. And like, the bottom line, I feel with this of interview and this, this tone is like, Alex is coming up with fun, fanciful things to be like, well, maybe they did it. Yeah. But he's also saying, like, if I were forced to speculate, like, you force yourself to speculate, you don't have to do any of this if I were.

[Jordan]

Forced to speculate, if, if somebody were going to ask me, in my professional.

[Dan]

Expert opinion, if speculating about nonsense and making shit up were the only way that I could make money, then I would say that maybe the Chinese or maybe the trans antifa gun to my head.

[Jordan]

It could be literally anybody I don't like. And for good measure, it might be people I do. Yeah.

[Dan]

But it might be the kind of people who I do like, who I also don't really like. It could be both rhinos. So the interview comes to an end and Alex is trying to drive home this message that Todd Blanche sucks and he needs to go.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah, I don't own the alexjonestore.com so they can't shut that down. That's got the best supplements, T shirts, all of it. That's funding the new thing we're doing. And so much, you know, very, very exciting things happening there. And so I just thank people for their support, their word of mouth and thank you so much, Sean, for helping get me back in shape.

[Sean Johnson]

Thank you, brother. I appreciate you for coming on. And I'll end it with still no Epstein list. So. Oh, you know this chaos we've been talking about, about still no Epstein.

[Alex Jones]

And you know who's over not releasing it? Todd Blanche.

[Sean Johnson]

Oh, that's weird.

[Alex Jones]

The guy that went interviewed Ghislaine Maxwell and then put her in a minimum security prison. The best in the country.

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

Nice man. Yeah.

[Sean Johnson]

And he's Trump's right hand man right now.

[Alex Jones]

So anyways, yeah, that implicates Trump. I mean, here's the deal. They had that high level whistleblower that was the head of the case the first five years.

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah.

[Alex Jones]

That they caught on tape. We know Trump's not involved all the way, which we already know. Know. But it doesn't matter after the fact. He's been convinced for the CIA and Mossad, who are both involved, to cover it up. Yeah. And. And so. And who is there? Todd Blanche. Yeah, so. And now that he's got that, now that he's over that case, he feels invincible that he can then deep six anything else he wants.

[Sean Johnson]

Maybe he has something over Trump's head.

[Alex Jones]

Never know.

[Jordan]

Epc.

[Sean Johnson]

All right, brother, I love you. Let's do this again soon.

[Alex Jones]

People can find me on exit Real Alex Jones. Find the live feeds there and so much more. Thank you, Sean.

[Sean Johnson]

Thank you everybody.

[Alex Jones]

Bye.

[Dan]

So we impeach Trump then like what, what are we talking about?

[Jordan]

Absolutely insane way to end and not go. Like we're crazy, right?

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

We have Accepted all fanciful things and nothing means anything because I'm both like, hey, Epstein should come out. But also I'm like, but I don't care. Fucking crazy.

[Dan]

Well, and I think that this reveals a schism that could be threatening the conspiracy community a little bit. And that is like Alex and his brand of shit. It's similar to the way that some of the more mainstream right wing talking heads radio show hosts would work in the past.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And that is for the friend group. We scapegoat someone.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So like nothing is Trump's friend fault. Right. It's Bill Barr's fault.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

It is Todd Blanch's fault. We find this other person, he's the one who the Epstein stuff works. Definitely. Totally mad about that. But it's his fault.

[Jordan]

We do not let the buck stop with Trump.

[Dan]

Right. Whereas with the other side, every single underling, everything they do is Obama's fault. Everything is Clinton's fault. Clinton actually orchestrated all of these little downstream decisions and everything. And I think that some of the more like newer wave conspiracy folks, they don't buy into that same old right wing mentality of protecting where the buck stops.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Like Sean seems entirely willing to be like, well, that fucking means that Trump is involved in this and people like Nick Fuentes isn't willing to just be like, yeah, Trump gets a pass, we'll just blame the guy at the DOJ or whatever. And I think if they can't get on the same page about that, that's going to be a problem.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I mean, I think in my, in our lifetime, I can only point to examples of them essentially circling the wagons, being like, listen, sure, we've yelled about this for a while, but now that we know we're not going to get any traction with this, we're just going to pretend it didn't happen. Happen. We're just going to move on. Like, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Yeah, sure. They caught this guy doing whatever didn't happen. We're moving on, you know, because we've already agreed that we're going to let Trump off the hook for it. So if we've already done that, then let's not like pick it a scab.

[Alex Jones]

Right?

[Dan]

Yeah, totally.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And that's what this ending feels like.

[Jordan]

Exactly.

[Dan]

It feels like Alex kind of trying to be like, hey, look, we've already kind of litigated this. We don't care. He's lost.

[Jordan]

He gets to, he gets to do whatever he wants. He can rape kids. I don't care.

[Dan]

He was right.

[Jordan]

He could shoot a guy in the street and we'll be like, you get to be more president.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah. And I think that there's. I don't know exactly how it plays out, because I think that people who are willing to call out the hub of power.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Or whatever, and not be like, well, let's blame the scapegoat.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I think that they have possibly more of a moral indignation behind them.

[Alex Jones]

Sure.

[Dan]

And I think that they can sell their argument better to people who aren't, like, already in.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And so I feel like that would be ascendant.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But then, like, who's gonna fucking listen to Shawn Johnson?

[Jordan]

I mean, that's. I think that's probably the. If, If. If we had, let's say, a fair marketplace of idea ideas, I think maybe Shawn Johnson's point of view would get more traction overall. But since the overwhelming money can put its. Put a hand on the scale to, like, hey, Trump gets to do whatever he want. It's Blanche, you know?

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But the. The problem is, like, the marketplace of ideas. Like, if it were just, like, a free and open marketplace. Like, the guy who's like, no, we still need to blame Trump is also the guy who was like, I don't know. I think Charlie Kirk's assassination might have been faked.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

So, like, what kind of quality of ideas are we working with?

[Jordan]

I mean, I think here's. Here's my problem. I agree with you. I think that's probably because we're downstream of those guys already. You know what I mean? Like, if we had gone back to a place before where they have poisoned us all in this horrible well of bullshit, then maybe we would have Sean Johnson be like, you know, I have questions about regular government.

[Dan]

Government.

[Jordan]

Where did Texas go?

[Dan]

What's a bill?

[Jordan]

What is a bill? Can we start with what is a bill?

[Dan]

Is there a song I could listen to that explains how a bill becomes a law?

[Jordan]

I read this very seriously. When you are writing a bill, what words do you use? Are they in French?

[Dan]

Anyway, I regret this. I think that Sean is boring as shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I think he. I don't know, man. These people, like, Infowars is thin.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

It's a. I don't even think that he works for Infowars. I think he's just adjacent.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And, like, this is. This is the kind of, like, media talent we've got around. It's bad news.

[Alex Jones]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I watched a couple of Owen's shows, and they're terrible and pathetic. Right. But I think there's something interesting going on there. There's nothing going on with this guy.

[Jordan]

No. This is brutal.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah. This is emptiness.

[Dan]

So I will not return to the Shawn Johnson.

[Jordan]

Well, I bet his triceps are great though.

[Dan]

So good.

[Jordan]

I bet they are fucking tight.

[Dan]

And you know what? I would love it if he was my trainer.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Because I think it would be adversarial. Sure. And I think that that might be able to get.

[Jordan]

That might get you an extra couple of sit ups of being like, I gotta tell you, you suck.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Jordan]

I gotta tell you, you suck.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

I gotta tell you, you suck.

[Dan]

Yeah. So, Sean, I'd like to hire you as my trainer.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Dan]

But I'll never listen to this dumb. We'll be back with another episode about some other dumb bullshit.

[Jordan]

Indeed.

[Dan]

But until then. We have a website.

[Jordan]

Indeed we do. It's Knowledge Fight dot com.

[Dan]

Yep. We'll be back. But until then. I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark. I am the mysterious Professor Woo. Yeah. Woo. Yeah. Woo.

[Jordan]

And now here comes the sex robot.

[Alex Jones]

Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding.

[Jordan]

Hello, Alex. I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.

[Alex Jones]

I love you.