#1135: Tucker, The Man And His Holocaust Questions

Summary

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Knowledge Fight #1135: Tucker, The Man and His Holocaust Questions

Date: April 20, 2026
Hosts: Dan and Jordan

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dan and Jordan tackle recent clips from the Alex Jones show (with Alex largely absent) and, more importantly, focus on a recent Tucker Carlson monologue. Trump’s public rebuke of former media loyalists — including Alex Jones and Tucker — has led to Tucker’s open questioning of Trump’s religiosity and a not-so-subtle swerve into classic antisemitic tropes, including veiled Holocaust denial. The hosts unravel Tucker’s rhetorical pivots, the opportunism and hypocrisy of post-Trump right-wing personalities, and the ways in which such narratives echo fascist talking points. Along the way, they illustrate the shifting landscape of right-wing grift and the increasing boldness of white nationalist content in American media.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Public Break with His Media Allies

Timestamp: 05:52–10:55

• Trump recently attacked Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, and others on Truth Social, calling them “fried,” “really dumb and mentally ill,” and “bankrupt.”
• Alex’s response was weak and deflated; he threatened to go “nuclear” if Trump attacked him again, but instead only released a mopey two-minute video, failing to follow through (“he’s showing surrender” – Dan, 08:30).
• Tucker Carlson is in a slightly different position, with more to lose in terms of brand, and a greater inclination to recalibrate after Trump’s attacks.

2. Tucker’s Sudden “Reckoning” with Trump’s Irreligiosity

Timestamp: 13:02–15:44

• Tucker finally openly admits Trump was never religious and used religion only as a political prop.

  "Donald Trump is a famously irreligious man…so Donald Trump is not someone who traditionally or ever really has weighed in on questions of faith or theology." – Tucker (13:06)

• Dan & Jordan point out the hypocrisy: Tucker always knew this but promoted Trump’s religious veneer for years (“He just liked what Trump was gonna do with that weapon” – Dan, 14:18).
• Now damaged by Trump, Tucker feigns surprise and distances himself, rubbing the audience’s face in the previous act (“Very rich con people in transition are weird” – Jordan, 15:20).

3. Trump’s Blasphemous Memes and Religious Outrage

Timestamp: 15:44–24:51

• Trump tweeted images of himself as Jesus, sometimes including a demon figure in the background; then deleted and denied them, then posted more memes involving Jesus.
• Tucker and other rightwingers feign outrage (“He’s mocking Jesus. He’s making fun of Christianity” – Tucker, 31:16), blaming Trump for mocking faith and truth itself.
• Dan & Jordan dismiss their performative outrage as insincere — they were always complicit, and the blasphemy should have been obvious to any true believer years ago.
• The hosts note the full megalomaniacal tilt of Trump’s self-presentation and the cowardice of those now “shocked.”

4. Is Trump the Antichrist? Tucker Flirts With Apocalyptic Rhetoric

Timestamp: 36:10–47:19

• Tucker leans into apocalyptic language; reads scripture about the “man of lawlessness” (Antichrist) from 2 Thessalonians and Daniel, hinting Trump fits prophetic descriptions.
• Dan exposes the circular logic: if Tucker once promoted Trump as divinely chosen, he’s now either an “aggressive campaigner for the Antichrist or the biggest sucker in the world.”
• Notable Quote:

  “If Trump is the Antichrist...Tucker was either aggressively campaigning for the Antichrist, knowing he was the Antichrist, or he's the biggest sucker in the world." – Dan (40:47)

• The hosts note the endless, tiresome cycle of rightwing figures flipping positions but never owning their culpability.

5. Pivoting the Blame: From Trump to ‘Israelism’

Timestamp: 62:40– 66:05

• Tucker reframes Trump’s loyalty as not to Christianity, but to a new “civic religion”: the “defense of Israel,” which he labels “Israelism.”

  “What is the civic religion of the United States?...It’s Israelism. It’s the defense of Israel.” – Tucker (62:40)

• He attributes Republican attacks on figures like the Pope, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Thomas Massie to their insufficient support for Israel.
• Dan and Jordan dissect this as classic antisemitic scapegoating — repeating the old claim that “Jews control the government,” but now with a “civic religion” euphemism.
• They note that Tucker ignores political realties (e.g., Alex Jones has never been a strong Israel critic) and that the argument is rooted in Nazi frameworks (e.g., “to learn who rules over you, see who you can’t criticize”).

6. Holocaust Questions, Jew-Baiting, and White Identity Politics

Timestamp: 100:53– 117:42

• Tucker disdainfully covers Holocaust remembrance ceremonies in Congress, sarcastically referring to “a whole bunch of Jews” and questioning why U.S. soldiers are not centered (“He’s gearing up to just ask some questions about the Holocaust” – Dan, 106:54).
• Jordan and Dan both recognize this as a standard escalation in the white nationalist script — questioning remembrance, minimizing specificity, and re-centering white Gentile suffering.
• Notable Quote:

  “This is just content you’d find on Nazi message boards in the early 2000s.” – Dan (110:23)

• Tucker then claims that “antisemitism” is being weaponized under a new “blasphemy law” rooted in Holocaust-centric civic religion, resisting the mainstream definition and painting himself and others as persecuted truth-tellers.

7. Civil Rights, Christianity, and More Gaslighting

Timestamp: 120:21–126:49

• With weaselly rhetoric, Tucker romanticizes America’s “civic religion” of old (“civil rights,” as bestowed by God and not government), all the while denigrating the actual civil rights movement as fraudulent or “silly.” He positions white, Christian America as the true victims.
• Dan and Jordan note the inherent contradiction, hollow nostalgia, and the intent to inoculate the audience against the charge of being Nazis — all while espousing fascist tropes.

8. Hannity, the Pope, and the Final Collapse of Rightwing Religious Authority

Timestamp: 142:44–154:51

• Tucker closes with a segment critiquing Sean Hannity, who, as a “cradle Catholic,” now sides with Trump over the Pope, further signaling the right’s abandonment of traditional religious structures for political expediency.
• The conflict between Trump and Pope Leo is recounted as a petty social media feud, in which the Pope is reduced to subtweeting peacemaking messages and Trump claims responsibility for his own “appointment.”
• The hosts end by emphasizing that none of this is about grand religious or geopolitical conspiracy — it's all about loyalty to Trump and the grifter's imperative.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tucker’s “revelation” about Trump:
  “It’s gotta feel really freeing to be in Tucker’s position where you finally just get to speak truths that were plainly evident to everyone this whole time.” – Dan (13:52)

• On the Antichrist argument:
  “If you’re Tucker, you have to see the writing on the wall…no more money to be made in this Trump shit.” – Dan (33:13)
  “If Trump is the Antichrist…Tucker was either aggressively campaigning for the Antichrist, knowing he was the Antichrist, or he's the biggest sucker in the world.” – Dan (40:47)

• On Holocaust “questions”:
  “He’s trying to build up the courage to deny the Holocaust.” – Dan (107:50)
  “This is just content you’d find on Nazi message boards in the early 2000s.” – Dan (110:23)

• On Tucker’s incoherence:
  “He's an open-micer at Nazi stuff.” – Dan (124:55)

• On right-wing grifters and their career death spiral:
  “All of them are. They’ve already lost and they have no idea.” – Dan (146:53)
  “This is a white flag…this is bullshit.” – Dan (147:24)

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Timestamps of Major Segments

• 05:52 — Trump’s public denouncements, Tucker’s pivot
• 13:02 — Tucker on Trump’s irreligiosity
• 15:44 — Trump’s Jesus memes, Tucker’s reaction
• 36:10 — Tucker invokes biblical prophecy, the Antichrist
• 62:40 — “Israelism” as America’s new “civic religion”
• 100:53 — Holocaust remembrance and Tucker’s descent into Nazi talking points
• 120:21 — Tucker on civil rights and America’s “soul”
• 142:44 — Hannity, the Pope, and final thoughts

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Tone & Style

• Wry, acerbic, and performatively incredulous: Dan and Jordan use dark humor and exaggerated exasperation (“He could nuke Tucker’s shack…”; “Get your shit together, Pope.”)
• Quick to point out hypocrisy and cowardice: The hosts repeatedly call out Tucker, Alex, and others for their grifter logic, refusal to accept blame, and rapid pivoting to whatever sells to the audience.
• Frequent use of sarcastic asides and analogies: (e.g., wrestling pay-per-views as a metaphor for “sway” in the End Times discourse; “He’s no Daniel; he’s going into that fire with those lines…”)
• Emphasis on historical parallels: Drawing lines between Tucker’s rhetoric and classic fascist, Nazi, and white supremacist figures; repeatedly mentioning the recurring strategy of “questioning” victimhood and martyrdom.

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Summary & Takeaways

Dan and Jordan take listeners deep into the right-wing media ecosystem’s latest meltdown, sparked by Trump’s public betrayal of his loudest media supporters. Tucker Carlson, having lost his spot as key Trump loyalist, is left adrift — venting his resentment with a meandering, pseudo-theological monologue that leans hard into classic antisemitic conspiracy and “Holocaust questioning.”

The hosts expose the performance at the core of these pundits’ outrage: for years, their faith and virtue signaling was a scam, switched off now that it’s no longer profitable. Tucker’s new positioning — awkwardly dancing around explicit Holocaust denial while blaming “Israelism” for the right’s collapse — is both deeply predictable and chillingly in line with white nationalist movements.

This episode is a dissecting table for the contortions of the American far right: the inability to accept blame, the relentless scapegoating, and the grim, inevitable turn toward open fascism when all other grifts run dry.

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For New Listeners:
You’ll walk away with a clear sense of how rightwing media’s internal dramas mirror (and drive) increasingly dangerous cultural narratives, and how quickly yesterday’s red lines (e.g., Holocaust denial) are becoming routine on mainstream-adjacent platforms.

Essential Quote:

“He’s just lying about Lindsey Graham…Everything he does is basically just lies.”
– Dan (81:19)

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Skip to:

• 10:55 — For the punchline of Trump’s public denouncements.
• 13:02 — For Tucker’s revisionist “awakening.”
• 36:10 — For Tucker’s Antichrist/prophecy segment.
• 62:40 — For “Israelism” as a new scapegoat.
• 100:53 — For the Holocaust “questions” and the heart of the episode’s critique.

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Transcript

[Jordan]

Red alert.

[Dan]

Red alert. Red alert. Red alert.

[Jordan]

Red alert. Red alert.

[Dan]

Knowledge Fight. Dan and Jordan.

[Caller]

I am sweating.

[Dan]

Knowledgefire.com. it's time to pray.

[Caller]

I have great respect for Knowledge Fight.

[Jordan]

Knowledge.

[Caller]

I'm sick of them posing as if

[Dan]

they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys. Knowledge.

[Jordan]

Dan and Jordan.

[Dan]

Knowledge Fight.

[Jordan]

Need.

[Dan]

Need money. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Andy.

[Jordan]

Stop it. Andy and Kansas.

[Dan]

Andy and Kansas. It's time to pray. Andy and Kansas, you're on the air.

[Caller]

Thanks for holding.

[Dan]

Hello, Alex. I'm a Fish and caller. I'm a huge fan.

[Jordan]

I love your word. Knowledge Fight.

[Dan]

Knowledge Fight dot com. I love you. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan.

[Jordan]

I'm Jordan.

[Dan]

We're a couple dudes. Like to worship at the altar of Selene and talk a little bit about Alex Jobes.

[Jordan]

Oh, indeed we are.

[Dan]

Dan, Jordan.

[Jordan]

Dan, Jordan. Quick question for you.

[Dan]

What's up?

[Jordan]

What's your bright spot today, buddy?

[Dan]

My bright spot today is actually that someone made a significant donation to Selene's call to Justice. And it reminded me that I haven't closed that charity drive that we did. I thought it automatically closed.

[Jordan]

It seems like that's how it should work.

[Dan]

So I wanted to say thank you. That was a really nice game. Gift from a wonk. And I gotta close that and maybe we'll start another charity thing. Yeah, I'd forgotten that was there. But it was really my heart that that was how I was reminded. So thank you.

[Jordan]

That's great. Yeah, that's absolutely delightful.

[Dan]

So what about you? What's your bright spot?

[Jordan]

My bright spot is went and saw my family. It was nice. I don't know if you recall the last time that I saw my family, but my brother's children this time, back to the beginning, did not acknowledge me whatsoever.

[Dan]

Whoa.

[Jordan]

One of them. One of them staunchly. I was yelling at her, like, directly in her face about how I existed. I was trying to get her to look at me in some form. I'm a very loud person.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Straight ahead.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Dead eyes.

[Dan]

That's too much. That's, like, not going to fall.

[Jordan]

Challenge. It's a challenge. I know. I know. I was trying to steal a look.

[Dan]

I think that you got to not trust them. Who's yelling at you that they exist.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. It seems like something a person who didn't exist would do.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

It's scamming.

[Jordan]

Well, I have interacted with real objects before, though, so I think she would have to. Sure. Yeah.

[Dan]

Are you sitting in that chair? That chair is real.

[Jordan]

It is real. Yeah, but ghosts can sit in chairs. I've saw the Sixth Sense. He didn't, like, fall to the center of the earth.

[Dan]

I'm trying to remember if there are any chairs in Casper. Remember that movie?

[Jordan]

I do remember that movie. Bill Pullman in it, probably.

[Dan]

I just said, man. And I realized that the next thing I was about to say was that me and Angela Lampsbury, we were trying to watch Rob Schneider's the Hot Chick.

[Jordan]

Oh, boy.

[Dan]

Because neither of us knew why the movie existed. What's the plot?

[Jordan]

What is it? It's the hot chick and her Internet

[Dan]

crapped out halfway through. So now I've seen half of the hot chicken.

[Jordan]

Did it make sense? No, of course not.

[Dan]

It sucks.

[Jordan]

Well, there you go.

[Dan]

But it's still disappointing that I haven't finished it.

[Jordan]

Hey, I just read. I'm telling you right now, I just read that if Scary Movie something does well. Right, we might be getting white chicks, too. So the game has changed.

[Dan]

I mean, there are questions that were left unanswered. White Chicks definitely ended with the idea that the Wayans brothers were going to be friends with these girls for life.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Like, they really hit it off.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

But I don't know if we need to see another one. Yeah, well, I'd rather see another Little Man.

[Jordan]

Little man, too. Littler Men.

[Dan]

Yeah. Get Tracy Morgan back.

[Jordan]

Absolutely. That seems like that's where we should have had Walter Mathrau and John. That's. That's Littler Men.

[Dan]

Well, we'll get on writing that script.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dan]

But for now, we have a. We have an episode we gotta do.

[Jordan]

Okay. Okay.

[Dan]

And this sucks.

[Jordan]

Oh, great.

[Dan]

This sucks.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Dan]

And we'll talk about what's up. But before we do, let's take a little moment to say hello to some new wonks.

[Jordan]

Ooh, that's a great idea.

[Dan]

So first, matching garlic bread tattoos. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much.

[Dan]

Thank you. Next scrapper wants Cowboy and Crazy Eights to stop fucking around and get in their giant ghost robots. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk.

[Caller]

I'm a policy wonk.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much.

[Dan]

Thank you. And Halden, thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk.

[Jordan]

Thank you very much.

[Dan]

Thank you. And we got second credit, Jordan. So thank you so much to Alex Jones, Jackie Chan, and that bitch MacGyver. I'm the number one wonk star.

[Jordan]

What?

[Dan]

You're now a technocrat. I'm a policy wonk.

[Caller]

4 stars.

[Jordan]

Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant.

[Caller]

Someone.

[Dan]

Someone. Sodomite sent me a bucket of poop. Daddy Sharp. Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent.

[Jordan]

He's a loser.

[Dan]

Little, little titty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce. Jesus Christ. I would like the record to show that I added the.

[Jordan]

I. Listen, there were instructions, and I was like, I don't need to put those in there. I know he'll pick it up. Yeah, and you did.

[Dan]

It took me a second, but once I got to the MacGyver, it was pretty clean.

[Jordan]

There you go. Yeah.

[Dan]

So, Jordan, unfortunately, today we have a Tucker episode.

[Jordan]

Oh, God damn it. Why are you doing what you're doing?

[Dan]

Well, all right, Alex, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to confuse you.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But you, Alex, have been out of studio all this week, which I think is the best decision that he could have made at this point. Probably Trump has completely burned him. And Alex's response was the weakest shit that he could have possibly done. He pretended not to be mad about it, allowed Roger to condescend to him on the next day's show, and then he tried to save face by threatening to destroy Trump if he says one more thing.

[Jordan]

One more. Oh, one more word, 16 or 17 more insults, and I'm gonna be real

[Dan]

mad at you, knuckle sandwich. As luck would have it, Trump didn't heed Alex's warning.

[Jordan]

Oh, did he do one more?

[Dan]

On Friday morning, Trump got on Truth Social and posted, quote, it's easy. Tucker is a low IQ person, always easy to beat, and highly overrated. So are Megyn Kelly in quotes, Candace, and then in parentheses, really dumb and mentally ill and bankrupt Alex Jones, who is completely fried. There are others also. Then we have some that are very good. True MAGA all the way. And smart. I should do a list of the good, bad, and somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't that be fascinating, President djt?

[Jordan]

I'm sorry, did he just. Did he just threaten to do a top 10 most loyal media stars list?

[Dan]

He soft pitched a.

[Jordan]

All right.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

So he's. He's working for Buzzfeed now. Is that the new plan, President Listicle?

[Dan]

Yeah, man, I thought that was. I mean, it would be fascinating.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I. I think we know. Didn't Nixon have an enemies list?

[Dan]

Yeah, but not a cool guy's list. And then a.

[Jordan]

Somewhere in the middle. Yeah, that would Be a very strange series of lists.

[Dan]

I think we know who he hates and who he likes.

[Jordan]

Right, right, right.

[Dan]

I'd be interested in who's in that middle list.

[Jordan]

I would be interested in what the existence of the middle list even means. Why would you. Why would you feel so neutral about somebody? You had to write it down.

[Dan]

Ira Glass in the middle.

[Jordan]

Very neutral on Ira Glass. Real fucking neutral on Ira Glass.

[Dan]

So Alex begged Trump to just say one more thing, and then Trump did that. Yeah, he doubled down. So now Alex has no choice to but to burn the house down. Unsurprisingly, Alex didn't burn the house down. Instead, Harrison opened the show on Friday and Alex sent in a hugely disappointing two minute mope video. It was about the weakest he's ever looked. And I'm not even interested in playing any of it for you. Alex set up the terms of engagement where if Trump said anything else, he was going nuclear. Trump said something else. So if Alex doesn't go nuclear, then he's showing surrender.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

So it doesn't matter what you said, you fucked it up.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

The only thing that's at all interesting about Alex's response is that he seems to think that Trump said that Alex was fired, but Trump said fried.

[Jordan]

Oh, it's weird.

[Dan]

But I also don't care that much and I don't want to look into it. Trump's insane.

[Jordan]

I want to look into. Not like, of all the. Listen, very low on the list. I would like to, though, know what was going on when he put those scarecrow scare quotes around Candace in specific.

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

Does that. Is that not her real name? Is that, Is it. Is it a character that he's describing?

[Dan]

He, you know, he uses quotes weirdly a lot. There's a. There's a Hunter S. Thompson quality to his capitalization and punctuation. Poor, seemingly random at times.

[Jordan]

There we go.

[Dan]

Okay, but in this tweet, Candace and fried are the only two words that are in quotes.

[Jordan]

Fried is in quotes. Yes. See, now that, that's.

[Dan]

That sort of makes it. He said fire things.

[Jordan]

He said fire. I mean, it could sort of work, though, because he is using fried as a metaphor to. To like, mean something else. So he could. You could use scare quotes around Fried or. I don't understand Candace, though.

[Dan]

Yeah, no, the Candace. The Candace is tough. I was thinking like, okay, Roger probably has told Trump that Alex is like a drunk.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

He's fried.

[Jordan]

He is fried.

[Dan]

I'm sure I could see Trump.

[Jordan]

Oh, it could be a quote. Okay. It could literally Be a quote, like a jab. Right. But that can't be the case for Candace.

[Dan]

No, But I also don't care quotes

[Jordan]

and parentheses for Candace. This is wild.

[Dan]

Really dumb and mentally ill in parentheses. So Alex wasn't the only media figure who's taken hits in this whole thing.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

Tucker Carlson was also included in Trump's tirade. He is included in the group of people whose families know they're stupid. He was singled out as a man who was broken by being fired from Fox and someone who needs to find a good psychiatrist. Tucker is sitting in a slightly different position than Alex in terms of how this affects his brand. In the lead up to and right after the 2024 election, Tucker was one of the most embarrassing Trump cheerleaders in the media. He pretended to be attacked by a demon in his bed. And he famously did a speech where he called Trump daddy and said he was home and he was going to spank his unruly children.

[Jordan]

Yeah, he called Trump daddy. There's no going back from call. You can't call any man daddy unless you mean it. Yeah.

[Dan]

And then, by all means. But Tucker did a tour of live shows before the election, only not called campaign rallies, because that would have been illegal.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Trump's son was one of Tucker's guests, as was JD Vance, along with future Trump appointees Dan Bongino, R K Jr Vivek Ramaswamy. And the grand finale was with Trump himself. But I think that Tucker was savvy enough to understand that he needed to change gears a little bit once Trump got back in office. He was sitting pretty. If Trump overthrew our democracy and went full dictator. But Trump was basically setting up a situation where Tucker was gonna be broke and a joke. If the public ever really turned on Trump while the public's opinion still mattered, Tucker would be just taken out with the ramp.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

And in the past year, I think that Tucker's done a decent job of making sure that his career doesn't rely solely on Trump, mostly by making his white supremacist undertones far more explicit and by masking his underlying antisemitism with a zealous hatred for Israel. So I was a little curious what Tucker was gonna be up to now that Trump has burned him. Sure. To give you a little sense of where he's going, the title of this episode that he put out is Tucker on the New religion of Trump's America and his mockery of Jesus Christ. Which sounds good. Sounds like Things are God.

[Jordan]

Jesus Christ. I would like for Any, anyone, anyone, anyone. To say, you know what? I think this is probably because of the stuff I believed, and I think I'm gonna believe different stuff now.

[Dan]

God, it would be great.

[Jordan]

Anybody, Anybody? About anything, really.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it'd be nice.

[Dan]

Some introspection on Tucker's part would be fucking awesome.

[Jordan]

Hey, maybe I fucked up and I'll do something different.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Hey, Daddy's home. And he started a new religion.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

Oops.

[Jordan]

Wow.

[Dan]

So we start off and Tucker is wrestling with the question.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Of how can Trump be so religious but also not be religious?

[Jordan]

Very obvious answers to these questions, I imagine.

[Caller]

Donald Trump is a famously irreligious man, just not that interested. Basically secular, a product of his time and place. If you doubt that. Some of the funniest clips ever of Donald Trump. And it's not a criticism, they're legit funny. Are him being interviewed during the 2016 campaign and asked basic questions like, what's your favorite book of the Bible? To which he says with some confusion, well, the Bible may be unaware there are component books to it. So Donald Trump is not someone who traditionally or ever really has weighed in on questions of faith or theology. It kind of gives it a pass or smiles. Yeah, I'm for it. I'm for it. The Bible.

[Dan]

It's gotta feel really freeing to be in Tucker's position where you finally just get to speak truths that were plainly evident to everyone this whole time, but you had to pretend weren't true. All of us were saying that Trump was using the illusion of religion to fool people into supporting him. But back then, Tucker was invested in maintaining the kayfabe. He couldn't just call it out.

[Jordan]

He was also using the illusion of religion to trick people. Yes.

[Dan]

The critical thing to understand is that Tucker knew that Trump was a fucking buffoon using religion as a weapon back then. He just liked what he thought Trump was gonna do with that weapon. That isn't true anymore. So all of a sudden, Tucker starts making these amazing observations that any idiot could have told you a dec discovery he makes. What Tucker is doing here is offensive because he's taking lies that he sold his audience in the past and saying, isn't this lie funny? Can you believe how transparently manipulative Trump was about religion? It's hilarious that we got you dumb dumbs to believe he was on a mission from God. Understood correctly. He's rubbing his audience's face in this mess.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

And trying to be like, that wasn't me. That was another guy.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

I mean, it is. It is going to be the great I. The great rubbing your face in how I conju. Is. The next couple of years is just going to be nonstop people being like, I can't believe you suckers believed the things that somebody else totally said to you. Don't listen to me. Five years ago.

[Dan]

Very rich con people in transition are weird. Yeah, they're fucking weird because they have to get to their new perch, but they have to pretend that they weren't on this other one.

[Jordan]

And the con to get away from the con is the most disgusting of cons.

[Dan]

Yeah. Yeah. But it's also in some ways more interesting than a stable con.

[Jordan]

It's the most important one.

[Dan]

So look, Trump tweeted on Easter.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And it was bad. It was that one where he said he was gonna destroy.

[Jordan]

Oh, yeah, the one that he said where he was gonna destroy Iran.

[Dan]

Yeah, it's bad.

[Caller]

But in the space of one week, Donald Trump, the same famously irreligious Donald Trump has weighed in in pretty specific ways on matters of faith and theology and religion, publicly in ways that are disruptive and sort of hard to understand, but worth trying to understand. So all this began about 10 days ago on Easter Sunday, early on easter Sunday, before 9:00am on Easter Sunday, when Trump tweeted that he was planning on destroying civilian infrastructure in Iran. It was going to be Bridge and Power Plant Day, basically promising war crimes, crimes against civilians, against the population of the country. And then in that same tweet, or truth, he used the F word on Easter Sunday. And then he seemed to make fun of Islam. Praise Allah, he said. So in one short statement of about 110 words, he seemed to give the finger to the world's two largest religions, Christianity and Islam. Hmm. That was Sunday.

[Dan]

So on the surface, we can all kind of agree here, that was a bad tweet. Super offensive stuff, and definitely should have at least got Trump arrested and taken out of power.

[Jordan]

Probably.

[Dan]

But what's important to recognize about Tucker's rhetoric is what's going on behind the surface. He hates Islam and Muslims, so he doesn't give a single shit about Trump insulting them. But he draws attention to how Trump gave the finger to Islam and Christianity in this Easter tweet. The reason he's doing that is because the hidden thesis of his argument is that Trump is doing all this stuff because of the Jews.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

And it's painfully transparent, even from like two sentences in to his dumb hour long lecture.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Jordan]

So these are the two important Abrahamic religions and the.

[Dan]

But Trump, Trump only loves one of Them, man.

[Jordan]

I. Here's. Here's what's fun, right? I imagine that, you know, weather permitting, the future might include more tucker for us, you know what I'm saying? Depending on how things go.

[Dan]

I mean, my. My big plan was to enter the Dark Ages, where we would just watch dark journalists and dark waters. But I started watching their channels, and they suck shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it's gonna be a problem.

[Dan]

The Dark Ages are literally the Dark Ages. That's not a show.

[Jordan]

That's terrible. Yeah.

[Dan]

But no, I won't subject you to that.

[Jordan]

Well, I'm just. I'm just saying that I was. I was listening to it, and it's. It's funny now. Like, the first words of his voice out of them are visceral, but now that I'm past them, it is funny to listen to this idiot talk. Oh, yeah. Like, he's insane.

[Dan]

Yeah, it is.

[Jordan]

It is wild to. To truly see. It's like when a British person is absolutely nuts, but for somebody who's like, oh, the accent is bewildering, you know, that kind of. It feels like that's what he's doing.

[Dan]

Well, I feel like I've never boxed and never been in a real fistfight. I imagine that once you take your first punch, you see the fight more clearly.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

You know, you can appreciate what's going on in terms of, like, you and your opponent.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

After you get the NER of that one. One hit out of the way.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So Tucker's voice comes in, and then you see everything.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, there's. There. What was the quote? You know, nothing. No plan survives a punch in the face or whatever. But if your plan is like, oh, this punch wasn't. That. Wasn't that bad, then you can move on with your life.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Jordan]

It's nice.

[Dan]

I did, while preparing this episode, find clip of Donald Trump telling that story. I found, like, three people telling that story. Yeah. And they were all. They all said. My friend Mike Tyson said, like, everyone's friends with Mike Tyson.

[Jordan]

Mike Tyson is inexplicably a center point for all weirdos.

[Dan]

You know why? Yeah, Toad.

[Jordan]

That does make sense.

[Dan]

Yep. So Trump did this shit, this bad Easter tweet.

[Jordan]

He said the F word on Easter where Jesus could hear him.

[Dan]

Tucker fainted.

[Jordan]

These people are so. These people are so absurd.

[Dan]

So then he had the nerve to attack the Pope.

[Jordan]

No.

[Caller]

And then exactly one week later, also on Sunday, the Christian holy day, he attacked the Pope, the leader of the world's largest religion and largest Christian denomination. And attacked him personally and said, basically, he's only Pope because of me. He's bad. The Pope is bad.

[Dan]

Tucker does not give a shit about Trump attacking the Pope. He likes a lot of Catholics because there's a strong segment of the Christian nationalist community who are Catholics, but there's no fucking chance he cares about the Pope. For most of my life, the Pope has been a figure that the right wing hates because he's been marginally tolerant, or at least that's the public image that they like to keep up. All of the Catholics that Tucker likes don't believe the current Vatican is legitimate.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

So you'll have to forgive me if I don't take his shock at Trump fighting with the Pope too seriously. This is bizarre.

[Jordan]

The people he likes are in favor of burnings.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Jordan]

Like, that's where they are. They're in the religion of the Dark Ages, if you will.

[Dan]

They think that Christian, or Catholicism in particular, lost its way because it eschewed fascism. So they said, whoops, after the Holocaust,

[Jordan]

I mean, you know, like, okay, this is absurd on its face, the idea that he gives a shit about the Pope. Pope. Because based upon what his previous beliefs are and his current beliefs and probably all of his beliefs of the future, that's absurd. But even if he was sincere about it, it would be almost more absurd because the Pope, like, are you. Are you mad that he's mad at the Pope or Catholicism, or how does. How do you think the Pope works? Right.

[Dan]

I think that this is a situation where this could have been ignored. Like, he doesn't like globalist popes and all that stuff. So he could have probably let this slide, but Trump took it a little too far after this, and now it's just too much.

[Jordan]

Uh.

[Caller]

Oh, and then later that day, maybe most interestingly, bafflingly of all, he sent out this. This meme. Take a look at this. Now, there are two on the screen. The one on the right is the one that he sent out, and it's himself. It's Donald Trump, President, United States, dressed as Jesus, healing a man. You can see the healing power coming off of his right hand.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Caller]

Now, the image on the left of your screen is the original image, and it was floating around the Internet. Who knows exactly where it came from, but it's been there for quite some time. The one on the right is the one the President sent out. White House Communications Office, or whoever does this, sent out, and you'll notice that it's been changed. And the American soldier over the President's Head. The president as Jesus Head has been changed and is now, if you look very carefully, a demon. Some kind of winged creature of hell.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Caller]

So it goes from an image that suggests, you know, healing and light to an image that suggests, I don't know, a scene from Revelation, John's vision on the isle of utmost. The end times, the apocalypse, who good the worst. It suggests demonic power because there is

[Dan]

a demon that does suggest demon. So I seen this picture and I don't know if I'm convinced about the demon thing.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I'm not gonna say it's not a demon, but. And I could be talked into saying that it is. Whatever. Give a shit. I don't care at all.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Whether or not some tiny part of this image is a demon is missing. The forest for the trees, where the big story is that Trump depicted himself very clearly as Jesus.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

This is blasphemy. And any Christian who can see that and not immediately condemn and denounce. Trump isn't a Christian.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

I think that this tweet is insanely disrespectful, and I feel bad for the sincere Christian people that I know who have to put up with being lumped in with this shit, but it's also pretty funny. Trump is sending a crystal clear message that he doesn't get care at all about any of the things that he used to support.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

He loved these opportunist media dipshits, but now, guess what? They're all idiots. He was very serious about his Christian faith and all of the opportunistic scam pastors who pray over him, but guess what? Now he's Jesus.

[Jordan]

Wow. What are you going to do?

[Dan]

Who cares?

[Jordan]

What are you going to do?

[Dan]

Fuck all of you.

[Jordan]

You know, I find it strange, right, that if you give somebody nigh infinite power, regardless of whatever rules you may or may not have in place for them, that those people tend to go megalomaniacally insane. Right. And it's so weird because it happens every time. It happens 100% of the time. No one's ever been given infinite power and been like, hey, guess what? I'm going to be cool.

[Dan]

Yeah. I. Look, I was confused.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

When Trump posted this.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I couldn't tell if it was trying to piss people off or if it was just a horrible misreading.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Like he just whiffed on this one.

[Jordan]

Wow.

[Dan]

Thought this would go over better.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But whatever it was, it.

[Jordan]

It's.

[Dan]

It was so crazy.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

That it was almost reality breaking.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

The President has tweeted out a picture of himself as Jesus. Yeah, very clearly.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I wonder. I wonder how, like, what the. What the craziest Emperor of Rome truly got up to.

[Dan]

What would they do with Twitter?

[Jordan]

Right? Like, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm trying to think of right here. So many people in Rome probably had no idea how much fucking truly insane the emperor was. Right? And we're like, those people, but the Emperor's in our house all the time. Yeah, that's no good, man.

[Dan]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Jordan]

Don't like it.

[Dan]

I think that. I think you're right that there are two problems. One is social media, and the other

[Jordan]

is the president one or what is stacked on the other, let's put it that way.

[Dan]

So. So look, this is bad.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Yes, it is bad.

[Dan]

Trump is pissing on God. He's fighting with the Pope. He's saying the F word on Easter. Yeah, this is some bad stuff. But then all of a sudden, Trump deleted that tweet of himself as Jesus.

[Caller]

So he sent that out and then withdrew it. Deleted the tweet from the Internet after an outcry, but was asked about it, and he said, yeah, I sent that. Didn't explain how the demon got it.

[Jordan]

I'm crazy.

[Caller]

Didn't explain why. And he said, I sent it out, but it wasn't me as Jesus. So obviously it is cool. It was me as a doctor. Heal people.

[Dan]

Yep, he's a doctor.

[Jordan]

Believe me. I dare you, you idiot.

[Caller]

She did. So maybe a distinction without a difference, but still kind of confusing.

[Dan]

Alive.

[Caller]

And then today, a day later, was asked about it again, and he said, no, no, I didn't have anything to do with that. Which wasn't.

[Jordan]

I'm confused.

[Caller]

More confusing. What was that? And then to make it even further mysterious, sent out this meme on truth Social retweeting somebody else, and it's him, Donald Trump, being. I don't know. How would you describe that? Caressed by, healed by, maybe endorsed by Jesus. That's unmistakably Jesus, the Christian Messiah.

[Dan]

Okay, okay, man.

[Jordan]

Is it unmistakably Jesus, the Christian Messiah?

[Dan]

It is. There's an aura and a glow on him. Unmistakably.

[Jordan]

Was it White Jesus, though?

[Dan]

Of course you mean Jesus. So, look, he. I think we're dealing with a confusing situation.

[Jordan]

I. I was. I was wondering, like, I was genuinely sitting there thinking and just being like, there must have been a true moment where Pontius Pilate was like, what a dope decision I made to not give a shit, because There's a part of me that goes straight up.

[Dan]

Washed his hands.

[Jordan]

Yeah, absolutely. There's a part of me that just goes like, oh, you're. If. If you are confused right now, best of luck to you, buddy. There is nothing I can do for you. I feel so good about not giving a shit about you.

[Dan]

Unlike Trump in that meme, I am not a doctor.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But I don't know what methods of therapy could help you if you're confused by this. If you're confused now, you are so fucking stupid.

[Jordan]

Yeah. And I'm like, normally I find it difficult to just truly call people stupid because there's a lot of different. You're dumb.

[Dan]

He would be. But he's not confused.

[Jordan]

No, he's not confused. No.

[Dan]

That's all it. It's his Persona. But if you expect anyone to believe that Trump tweeted a picture of himself as Jesus with a demon in the background, and then he sneakily deleted that post, said, hey, I fucking did that shit.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

I don't. I don't know how the demon got in there. What's up? And then later said, I didn't do that. I had nothing to do with that. And then posted another meme of himself with Jesus.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I don't think you should be confused.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Like, okay, sends a message, and you should. You should probably get it when.

[Jordan]

When they did this, when Stalin did the thing, and he's like, ah, that's a deer or whatever. You know, whatever story it is, it's a goat. And he says it's a deer. And everybody who doesn't say, they die or whatever. Right. That's. That's easier because it's a closed room and you got a bunch of guys right there to. To murder the guys, you know, like you. There's a lot of pressure there. Trump can't do it. He can't do it, like, across the country.

[Dan]

He could nuke Tucker's shack.

[Jordan]

Sure. I mean, that's fair. But don't, you know, like, at least dare him to take the walk. I think travel.

[Dan]

I think Trump probably has his assassination coordinates.

[Jordan]

See, but that's even better. Now, I would like to know that this dude is totally willing to assassinate people. That would be another good. That's a next step for a dictator. Have we gotten to the death squad stage of him being mad?

[Dan]

I. I hate. I hate to say this, because I think that, you know, there are agencies like ICE and shit that are.

[Jordan]

Well, sure, they're. They're borderline death squads.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And that's not funny.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

But I do imagine him having a Hogan's Heroes level kind of.

[Jordan]

Sure, sure, sure. Ragtag band of.

[Dan]

Well, no, like the.

[Jordan]

The guards. Oh, okay.

[Dan]

They're goofy. They have, like. They'd be having, like. They'd be slipping on stuff all the time, and it'd be. Be hilarious.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Via death squad. Yeah. Trump would get some funny fucking death squad. Rob Schneider.

[Jordan]

It would be. We would have new Police Academy movies, but they would be death squad. But death squad academies.

[Dan]

Rob Schneider, Jim Brewer.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

James Woods.

[Jordan]

The greats. The. The top three.

[Dan]

Yep. So, look, I mean, what I'm trying to get at mostly is that the message is clear.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Dan]

And that is that Trump, Not a lot of respect for this guy, doesn't care.

[Jordan]

Doesn't care.

[Caller]

So all of that in a little over a week. What does it mean? Because it certainly means something. This isn't so much a couple of memes. These are icons. This is iconography. These are attempts to send a statement about faith. What statement is the President sending? Well, not a coherent one. Doesn't actually add up to a theology. It's mockery. He's mocking Jesus. He's making fun of Christianity. The central figure of the religion is being held up for mockery, of course. And his description of how this got out is itself mockery. Mockery of the idea of truth. One day he says, yeah, I did it. Next day he says, no, I didn't do it. Both are on video. That's not really a lie. It's more than a lie. It's bigger than a lie. It's an attack. Not just on a specific set of facts. It's an attack on the idea that there are facts. It's an attack on truth.

[Dan]

That's all. Fair enough. And Tucker is correct that Trump is mocking Jesus and mocking the idea that there's such a thing as truth. But he's lying by pretending that this is a new realization he's had. This is his business model. I mean, I. Tucker has known this all along. It just wasn't a problem until now. Trump's actions have always made a mockery of Christianity, but it used to be profitable for Tucker to pretend that that didn't matter. Trump's a lame duck president with a VP who looks super weak heading into the midterms with sinking approval ratings and an unpopular war. If you're Tucker, you have to see the writing on the wall that one way or another, there's no more money to be made in this Trump shit. It's great for Tucker to see that Trump is mocking truth and mocking Jesus. But it's a little too late for those observations to mean anything. If he's capable of seeing this now, he could have seen it before.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

And instead of telling his audience to fear Trump's mockery of God, he said Daddy was home and that he was angry and wanted to spank.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

He had Russell Brand prey on his knees in front of a cheering auditorium at his live show Trump campaign rally.

[Jordan]

He did.

[Dan]

Like, this was. This was what he made money from.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

And this is the point. Tucker's always known that this was what Trump was like. He just used to think he was on the inside group, and now he's been disabused of that notion.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And he's now mad at the Jews.

[Jordan]

Yeah. You know, I feel like this is. This is a problem for Ocean's Eleven.

[Caller]

Right?

[Jordan]

The idea that those guys would pull off that big score and then just move on with their lives. Right. Because you can see right now, you can see that Tucker has the opportunity. He's stolen how much money. This dude has made his nut. All he needs to do is stand by the fountain and then walk away into the distance. He doesn't have to be trying to pull this shit. This is stupid.

[Dan]

It is stupid.

[Jordan]

Right? What are you doing? You're doing Ocean's 12. Skip to Oceans 13, for God's sakes.

[Dan]

I think that his dad is CIA.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And Tucker has been in the CIA all his life, so he can't walk away.

[Jordan]

That is too deep. That is fair. That is fair.

[Dan]

So he's. He's. He's. They got him.

[Jordan]

So that means. But that means that the CIA. Can you believe. Can you believe, Right. How much Q shit was based around the idea that there was hidden meanings and shit in the stuff that that motherfucker said. Right. And now here we are. Now here we are. There should be accountability for every Q person.

[Dan]

I don't know. I think some people are into that Easter tweet pretty hard.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.

[Dan]

Tucker's looking for demons hidden in the background of a meme.

[Jordan]

The idea that. Man. I mean, if you need Tucker to interpret that for you, this is not a dream. This is not like a.

[Dan]

You're sitting on the couch and as a. Daniel. He's no Daniel.

[Jordan]

Right? He's no Daniel. He's going into that fire with those lines, my man.

[Dan]

So Tucker has a good point.

[Jordan]

Point. Yeah.

[Dan]

That. Is that kind of weird that people just moved on from this?

[Jordan]

It is.

[Caller]

So this was Kind of dismissed after a online kerfuffle for a few hours. And people were outraged, and then they weren't. And we've got other things to worry about. They moved on. But for sincere religious people, for Christians who care about Jesus and what's true and what's not, a lot of them went to their Bibles to try and figure out, what are we watching here? And a lot of them came up with a couple of verses that seem to fit what we're watching. And if you are a sincere Christian or know some, maybe you got these texted to you, but we'll read them just so you know how a lot of people of faith were interpreting this.

[Dan]

I agree that this isn't something that sincere religious people can let slide or forget about, but they also shouldn't forget that Trump is in power, thanks in large part to Tucker. Yeah. Tucker's currently doing a podcast because he defamed voting machine companies in an attempt to argue that Trump secretly won the 2020 election.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Tucker pretended that he got attacked by a demon so he could rile his audience up about how the 2024 election was a battle between good and evil and spiritual forces. It's cute and fun to see him distance himself now, but if Tucker's gonna play this game, he needs to accept his part in it. If Trump is the Antichrist, then he's the false prophet, and there's no way around that.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

He has to own that.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I think if I was a person who truly believed him, like, I was a. I believe that Tucker was telling me the truth. For him to do this now would genuinely make me feel like I have

[Caller]

to murder this guy.

[Jordan]

Like, to. To even try and gaslight me to the extent that he is doing that would make me so furious.

[Dan]

The only way that it would seem acceptable, as if this was his last show ever. Yeah. And he apologized again.

[Jordan]

Ocean's 11.

[Dan]

If he apologized for misleading people for the last 10 years or, you know, whatever, and, like, recognized how fooled he was and how he translated that to the audience totally, then maybe there's some forgiveness you can find.

[Jordan]

Possibly.

[Dan]

But the fact that the day after this, he put out another episode with Russell Brand tells me that he's not contrite.

[Jordan]

The idea of. The idea of going along with it is heartbreaking. It really is heartbreaking. Yeah, it really is.

[Dan]

I don't think that there are that many people watching his show that don't suck. So.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know how

[Dan]

much pity you have to have because, like, you're saying, this is so transparent.

[Jordan]

It's. It's hard to imagine any human being without extreme motivated reasoning not seeing through this.

[Dan]

Yeah, but someone who just wants kind of like soft core Nazi shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Dan]

That's the only market here.

[Jordan]

I'll get over it.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So Tucker gets around to his email chain letter of scriptures that he wants to share.

[Caller]

Good stuff. The first is from Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians.

[Jordan]

Yo, yo, yo. Thessalonians

[Caller]

chapter two. Very well known verse in which he's describing what's going to happen when Jesus comes back and he says, you're going to hear that Jesus is coming back. Don't believe what you hear. A bunch of things have to happen before he returns to earth, redeems the world, history ends. And you'll know that he's coming by these events. And among them will be the rise of a figure he describes as the man of lawlessness, sometimes describes as the Antichrist, but the man of lawlessness is the phrase from his second letter to the Thessalonians. And he says this. There will be a great rebellion against God led by that man of lawlessness. This man will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. He will pose as God. He will mock other gods and put himself in their place.

[Dan]

I honestly couldn't believe that this was really where Tucker was going. I thought it would be funny if he tried to say that Trump was the Antichrist, but actually seeing this ball rolling is fucking stupid.

[Jordan]

It's not funny.

[Dan]

Let's play around for a second with the idea that Trump is the Antichrist.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

If that's true, then Tucker was either aggressively campaigning for the Antichrist, knowing he was the Antichrist, or he's the biggest sucker in the world. He's either willfully and knowingly evil or the biggest idiot who got conned by the most obvious con ever. There isn't a scenario where Tucker should think his perspective or opinion on anything matters and he should be retiring from public life and shame. But if we're to believe the best possible option, that he was conned by the Antichrist, then we'd have to believe that he's never realized before that Trump was mocking religion in any previous instance of something happening. And this clip from 2023 where Tucker is interviewing the head of the Babylon Bee seems to make that impossible.

[Jordan]

Oh, no.

[Caller]

Yeah, we have a. We have a.

[Dan]

We Have a very, very sharp writing team.

[Jordan]

They're very good at this.

[Dan]

I think, honestly, one of my favorites

[Jordan]

that got fact checked was our joke

[Dan]

about Trump saying that he had done more for Christianity than Jesus himself.

[Jordan]

And that was. That was your headline. That was the headline, Trump, I have

[Dan]

done more for Christianity than Jesus.

[Caller]

But he kind of said that at some point, didn't he?

[Jordan]

He did. Well, yeah.

[Dan]

So we made that in 2019.

[Jordan]

It got fact checked shortly thereafter because

[Dan]

it went crazy viral. And then in 2021, I think it was 2021 or 2022, he said he'd done more for Christianity and religion in general than any other person in history. Three years ago, Tucker was fine laughing about the idea that Trump would say he's done more for religion than anyone before, which is mocking Jesus. Tucker didn't care back then because the liberal tears business was booming. And that's where the next verses from 2 Thessalonians become important. Just after the passage that Tucker reads is, the coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refuse to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. Tucker's career was building up and defending that powerful illusion that made his audience believe the lie. He's led them to their own condemnation. And he uses all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders. How else would you describe his bullshit about being attacked by a demon? Or his insistence that Alex Jones has psychic visions? So I guess I'm fine if, like, Tucker wants to play this game where he pretends that Trump's the Antichrist, but I'm gonna need him to take his part in it a little more seriously. Yeah, if he's going to start quoting scripture about this shit. Yeah, look for yourself in the book, you dumb, dumb.

[Jordan]

Yeah, but then he would find out that there's more to it.

[Dan]

Oh, no.

[Jordan]

People cut it out to consume. And I like consuming things. I don't want to. I don't want to eat my vegetables, my friend. I want to eat the dessert.

[Dan]

He's claimed that he's big on vegetables. Then he reads the Bible all the fucking time. That his faith sincere.

[Jordan]

You know, one thing I always thought, right, maybe I'm the only person who thinks like this. But I was thinking, does the Antichrist think he can win? You know what I'm saying?

[Dan]

We've talked about this a bit, right? Yeah.

[Jordan]

So. So then it's like, man, shouldn't you know exactly what you're supposed to be doing and then like, like subterfuge it.

[Dan]

Right. Like he thinks he can win then

[Jordan]

I'm not gonna do that shit.

[Dan]

Yeah. Does that implicate free will and pre.

[Jordan]

I'm not gonna do that Bible shit. What are you crazy? That guy loses.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah, right. He'd ha. If he's self motivated or they.

[Jordan]

Oh yeah, there we go.

[Dan]

If there's self interest involved and you know you're gonna lose, then you wouldn't do the thing that you know leads to you losing.

[Jordan]

Or if you noticed yourself doing it, you would at least be like, wow, this is a right. Yeah.

[Dan]

So I think the conclusion that we've come to in the past is that if there is an Antichrist, there can be no self realization.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

There can be no self awareness.

[Jordan]

He has to be a puppet. Yeah.

[Dan]

Kind of.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Automaton.

[Jordan]

Ish. Yeah. So the Antichrist is your God and has free will. Yeah. Take that.

[Dan]

So anyway, there's another Bible verse that Tucker probably got emailed by a grandma

[Caller]

that's from the second letter to the Thessalonians, but. But that's not the first place in the Bible, Old and New Testaments where something like this is described. Variations of this are in a number of prophecies in what Christians call the Old Testament, including those contained in the Book of Daniel. The prophet Daniel describes something very much like this at the end of history. And he's describing some asshole period really, as is so often described in the prophets as punishment, punishment for faithlessness and sin. God's people are being being punished for not following God. And that punishment he describes in part in chapter 11 from the book of Daniel predicts the coming of a king. And we're quoting now, a king who will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every God and will say unheard of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed. For what has been determined must take place. It's all ordained. In other words, preordained. He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors, nor will he regard any God, but will exalt himself above them all. So to a lot of Christians or people who know the Bible well and believe in it, these Predictions in both the Old and the New Testament, and there are others, seem to fit what we were watching. Here's a leader who's mocking the gods of his ancestors, mocking the God of gods and exalting himself above them. Could this be the Antichrist?

[Dan]

I love that this is where Tucker's game has devolved to. He has to get on his show, put on a straight face and deliver a monologue about how very reasonable people are asking the question if Trump is the Antichrist. It's remarkable how he's still clinging onto some kind of air of respectability. Like if he frames things like he's talking about this story because other people are talking about it, somehow this is less embarrassing. Yeah, but it's not. It's super embarrassing to be Tucker Carlson doing a pre written monologue about how the guy who got elected and you called daddy is maybe the devil.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

This sucks.

[Jordan]

If you're doing this, I wouldn't want to do it.

[Dan]

And I don't want to just keep bringing up that these people don't know anything about the scriptures they cite. But this vision from the book of Daniel doesn't just involve a king showing up and being evil. It's a very complicated story about rival kings and multi generational grudges. Jesus that leads up to the stuff that Tucker's reading, but it's inconvenient for the little lecture, so he just ignores

[Jordan]

all that due to a whole series of events. Some assholes show up. But if you get rid of all that series of events, then some asshole could always show up.

[Dan]

Right. There's a superficial similarity in that. Like, hey, this guy's an ass. He sucked and he doesn't like Jesus.

[Jordan]

I've been, I've been embedded in the, in the end times for most of my life. It's always been the end times. But there's, it's like, it's a little, it's a little STD flare up kind of thing. Like every now and again it's more end times than other end times. Right. And this time I feel like if I was still in that end times thing, I would be like, oh shit, we're doing it. You know, Like I would be really excited because it feels very end timesy.

[Dan]

Yeah. Okay, here's how I would describe it.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Whenever I would watch a pay per view, a wrestling pay per view when I was a kid, they would have garbage sponsors. They would have like 1, 800 collect.

[Jordan]

Right. Not like waste management sponsors. Yeah.

[Dan]

So then I would, I like every now and again There would be, like, Butterfinger is. Is the sponsor of this paper.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

I'd be like, oh, we're in the big leagues.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

They do Simpsons in their commercials.

[Jordan]

That's true. That is true.

[Dan]

This is real shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So it feels like the End Times has better sponsors now.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah. It feels like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

[Dan]

Closer to mainstream.

[Jordan]

That's what I'm saying. I would feel. I would. I mean, if I was. If I was still in it, I would feel like, ooh, now shit's getting real. Like. Like this dude's the actual Antichrist. Let's watch, you know?

[Dan]

Yeah. It's not just a group of people who are going to be disappointed or a small apocalyptic cult of people who will probably take their own lives.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

This is like, this is straight up. This guy has millions of viewers. If this is fucked up, if this

[Jordan]

is going down, I've read my book. Zombies is coming. Zombies is coming, my man.

[Dan]

Well, don't get ahead of yourself.

[Jordan]

All right, fine.

[Dan]

Because, I mean, the jury's still out.

[Caller]

That's fair.

[Jordan]

That's fair.

[Dan]

No one knows when Jesus is coming.

[Caller]

Could this be the Antichrist? Well, who knows? At least that's my conclusion. Who knows? We're also told. Good work in the New Testament, that you're not gonna know that Jesus will return like a thief in the night, and you better be ready, because you can't predict it. But we're also told there are signs. And is this one of them? Well, again, unclear.

[Dan]

Unclear. Maybe this doesn't mean anything. Maybe this is a God's about to

[Jordan]

come back and the man. You are missing the point of religion. Yep. I want to be certain about something, and the only way is imagination.

[Dan]

I love that he's getting on this show and being like, trump is starting a new religion, blah, blah, blah. I don't know.

[Jordan]

Maybe.

[Caller]

I don't know.

[Jordan]

Possibly. Could be. I don't want to. I don't want to commit to anything in case I wind up in a situation exactly like the one I am in currently.

[Dan]

Oh, if this nightmare gets worse. I don't. So, you know, some of these scriptures, they sound like Trump, sure. But they also kind of sound like a lot of other leaders.

[Jordan]

Do you mean like we. When we did this for Obama? A bunch of times.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Caller]

The spirit, by the way, fits the behavior of other leaders throughout history who saw themselves in a kind of rivalry with the gods of their people and sought to put themselves over those gods, exalt themselves above God. That's actually pretty common. That is really the definition of megalomania. And it's happened before and will doubtless happen again, but that's clearly what this is. This is mockery of God by a temporal leader, by a man. This is the leader of our country saying, I will take no instruction from God because as he showed in the first meme, I am God. Okay, so that kind of raises the question, is that okay?

[Dan]

Sure does. I think one of the reasons that people like Tucker can play games like this is that they pretend that the left is mocking God by simply existing. So even though Trump is clearly pissing on their faith, it's still a question of whether or not they should take it seriously. They are idiots.

[Jordan]

I mean, I maintain that I am still pro attacking and dethroning God. And that was supposed to be what I thought we were on board for. And now all of a sudden, the guy who's attacking and dethroning God is on their team.

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

That's not fair.

[Dan]

Like, I can't put this. This any clearer. If anything that Tucker believes is true, there should be so many. Like, there should be miracles happening.

[Jordan]

Absolutely.

[Dan]

Someone should call down a lightning bolt that strikes Trump. Like, the way he's acting is biblical shit.

[Jordan]

Silly. It is silly to imagine.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So anyway, is it okay?

[Jordan]

Is it? Is it okay? Let's ask more questions that there's no possible way we could have always known the answer to based upon everything we've

[Dan]

always believed and sound fucking stupid. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, look, let's not tease too much. Obviously, the answer is no, it's not okay.

[Caller]

Of course. Is that okay? Seems to be okay. There were no massive protests in front of the White House. There was no attempt really to do anything about this. In fact, many Republican leaders shrugged it off. So can you believe it? You know, he's just, just true socialing. Don't pay attention. It's just a joke. It's just a joke. What, do you have no sense of humor? Mocking Jesus, giving the finger to God? You're so uptight. And as for his attacks on the Pope, Republican leader after Republican leader, including just hours ago, the speaker of the House, the self described Christian, fervent Christian Bible scholar, joined in attacking the Pope. So you got to have to wonder, is this the behavior of a Christian nation? Is the United States a Christian nation? Well, that depends how you look at it. The United States is the nation with the Most Christians, over 200 million. There are more Christians in the United States than any other country on planet Earth. So it is, by that definition, a Christian nation. Of course, it's not officially Christian. Our Constitution forbids the US Government from creating a state religion in the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights. So, no, it's not officially Christian, but it is fundamentally, materially Christian because it's majority Christian still. And once again, it's the country with the most Christians, but it's not a Christian country. And in fact, if you take three steps back, it's a nation or it's a government anyway, that has for a long time really acted in opposition, explicit opposition to the interests of Christians, not just in the United States, but around the world. Our foreign policy, for example, seems to target Christians. And this has happened consistently enough that. That it's probably not an accidental byproduct of the policy. It may be the point of the policy. Who knows what the intent is, but certainly effect of every foreign policy adventure, at least since Vietnam, which, in the end, this is often forgotten, left the Catholics, and there were many of them in Vietnam in concentration camps. Didn't help the Catholics at all.

[Jordan]

I fucking hate this guy.

[Caller]

From a Catholic country to a Communist country. That's not entirely our fault, but that is. That was the effect that happened.

[Dan]

So Tucker is right that it's insane that more supposed Christians aren't up in arms about Trump's actions and seem fine with moving on. Yep, he's right that this is insane because he's insane.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

The country has a lot of Christians in it, but not like Tucker Christians. Tucker Christians are fun entertainment because they talk about being attacked by demons and do all this stupid shit for attention. But it's really hard to be a Christian like this if you're not super rich and you can't just turn the act off whenever you want to. Yeah, it's tough for other people. Being a Tucker Christian might get them fired or ruin all of the relationships in their life because their spouse doesn't believe they were attacked by a demon as punishment for supporting Trump. Tucker Christians have to believe in this weird cosmic stuff because they would just be hosting a boring Bible study show if they didn't. So it's really hard for that to exist in the same space where they're explaining, like, why isn't God striking Trump down? Yeah, like you believe in magic. This should be happening.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah. You can be rich and believe in crazy stuff for free, or if you're poor, you have to find a small group of people to reinforce your crazy stuff back and forth for you.

[Dan]

And even that may not work.

[Jordan]

May not work. Yeah.

[Dan]

Because, you know, still end Up.

[Jordan]

Absolutely.

[Dan]

On the streets.

[Jordan]

You may broke. Yeah.

[Dan]

Dead. Like it's. It's tough. Tucker's.

[Jordan]

Or in the Sea Org. Yeah. You could be fucked.

[Dan]

Or working for Tucker. Like, his craziness is facilitated by his massive amount of wealth. And like the fact the cameras turn off.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

That's basically what he's not taking into this equation.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

Also, Tucker may have a point that Catholics in Vietnam weren't in a great position during or after the war, but history didn't begin when that war started. He should explore how Catholicism mingled with the colonial history there. If he's actually interested in any of this, or else we're just gonna have to assume he's cherry picking stuff to serve his narrative, which is that US foreign policy objectives have been designed to attack Christianity.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And spoiler alert, it's because the Jews.

[Jordan]

Yeah. And, and, and if I listen again, everybody's. Everybody's got their own flavor. So the idea of America being so filled with Christians is absurd to me because none of them believe the same shit.

[Caller]

No.

[Dan]

But I think that a lot of people who are Christian by default.

[Jordan]

Sure. Culturally or the right way to put it. But I was always told, fuck the Pope. Fuck the Pope and fuck Catholicism. Because they're the ones who say that you need an intermediary between you and that big guy over there. And once you get rid of that, then you have to say that those people are actively blocking you from having a relationship with God. Therefore the Pope is evil.

[Dan]

Yeah. I have no strong feelings on Catholics, but I do know that growing up, the word dirty often was before papists.

[Jordan]

So, like, papists was a word that

[Dan]

was the adjective that created a compound noun that I heard people say a lot.

[Jordan]

The Papist. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dan]

So they're trying to attack Christianity and they're doing it a lot of ways. And one of them is through migration. Because people who come here who aren't legacy.

[Jordan]

Oh my God, I don't even.

[Dan]

Aren't as Christian. Jesus.

[Caller]

Europe, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, our country as well, have all changed substantially demographically and become much less Christian because of immigration. So you often hear people complain, not ours. Whenever we took all that, Europe's becoming Muslim. Yeah. Why is that? Well, because of mass migration. We've abetted it. The neocons certainly have abetted it. They've been in favor of it. They've attacked anyone who's opposed to it. Viktor Orban in Hungary just lost the other day. The Prime Minister of Hungary was hated by neoconservatives in Washington. Why is that? Because he pushed back against mass migration into Hungary, and he said Hungary is part of Christian Europe. It's a Christian country. It's one of the main reasons I don't want mass migration. Well, the entire foreign policy established in the United States decided he was an enemy for saying that. So it's not simply that they haven't stopped the destruction of Christian Europe. They've been fully in favor of it. They're fully in favor of the war between Russia and Ukraine. Net effect, millions of dead Christian men. That's not just, again, an accidental byproduct. That may be the whole point.

[Dan]

It may be the whole point. It seems like you're acting very much like you're convinced that it is the whole point.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

It seems to be central to the thesis.

[Jordan]

Basically, your false question is an implication.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I don't think that's the full story as to why the Ukraine war is happening or why people didn't like Orban, but when you oversimplify things, it really helps tell a story way easier.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Especially if you use a word interchangeably with white. Yeah. Weird.

[Dan]

There's a lot of fun ways to say white.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

There are a lot of fun ways to say white.

[Dan]

You bet.

[Jordan]

Huh?

[Dan]

So Trump, white is the first president to openly mock Jesus, although all the rest of them did it privately. It's just weird that he's doing it in public.

[Caller]

Donald Trump is not the first president to give the finger to Jesus. Hardly. But he is the first president to do it in public.

[Jordan]

I want to know names.

[Caller]

And this has been going on long, and it's reaching a kind of. Of boiling point. Right.

[Dan]

Hamilton.

[Caller]

We can begin to see outlines of what the actual religion, certainly this administration.

[Dan]

He's on the 10.

[Caller]

There always is one good enough secular government. Never has been one, never will be one. A truly secular government would have no purpose.

[Jordan]

The.

[Caller]

Are you talking about destiny? There'd be no real reason. Destiny to continue on. It certainly wouldn't have any.

[Jordan]

Government requires destiny.

[Caller]

And our government does have evangelical zeal. We're spreading democracy and free market principles around the world. Freedom or whatever. So every government is motivated by religious impulse, whether the government admits it or not.

[Dan]

So I don't think that he made his point there.

[Jordan]

No. I would strongly suggest otherwise.

[Dan]

Yeah. There was a real moment of me sitting there being like, oh, what the fuck? What do you.

[Jordan]

What?

[Dan]

I believe all government is religion.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And religious.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Because there needs to be an evangelical zeal.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Secular government has no reason to exist.

[Jordan]

Right. If I. If I If I'm understanding correctly, and I'm gonna draw these lines as best as I can, not knowing the exact crazy here, but if you're not actively expanding, then what is the point of you?

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

If you're not colonizing with your religion,

[Dan]

the idea no function that you can possibly do as a human that is not part of your religion is pointless.

[Jordan]

Right. If you are not reproducing, you're pointless. If you're not moving. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's that kind of concept.

[Dan]

Yeah. I was thinking about that as I. You know that feeling when you sit down to start a writing project and you just sit there with the keyboard.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

That's how I felt when I was thinking about, like, what do you say about this clip?

[Jordan]

What are you saying? What are you saying?

[Dan]

I was struggling to find, like, a deeper thing that has a comment.

[Jordan]

Check out this asshole.

[Dan]

I think he's just dumb.

[Jordan]

Yeah, he's dumb. He is dumb. Yeah.

[Dan]

It's just a stupid thought he has.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

It's not like there's no gold in them hills.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I was listening to a thing earlier today about some sort of space nonsense. I was having my fun, and it was. It was so much like, buddy, if you are using this number of adjectives this frequently, you're full of shit. That's what you're doing. You're doing the tricks to keep people from noticing how fucking stupid you are.

[Dan]

There's a good chance. Yeah, there's a good chance.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

A good white chance. So we get to the meat of the issue here, and he's been beating around the bush a little bit.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

You know, there's a suggestion that possibly Trump is the Antichrist. But what does this really mean?

[Jordan]

Good question.

[Dan]

What is the new religion?

[Caller]

So what is the civic religion of the United States? What's the religion of the US Government? What's the religion, honestly, of Donald Trump? It's not Christianity, clearly. It's Israelism. It's the defense of Israel. Now, how do you know that?

[Jordan]

Oh, boy.

[Caller]

Well, because the United States has set up as its chief foreign policy and the defense of Israel. That's one clue. There's that, but it's much deeper than that. Who are the main enemies as identified by the President of the United States, of his government domestically. Who are his enemies? Who does he dislike? Who does he attack? Who does he go out of his way to undermine? Well, it's people who doubt Israel, people who stand in the way of the aims of the secular government of Israel. And that would include Marjorie Taylor Greene, Thomas Massie, and the Pope. Now, how do you know that's what it is? Well, because that's the only thing they have in common.

[Dan]

I know one other very specific thing that Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massie had in common, which is that they wouldn't shut up about Epstein when Trump told them to.

[Jordan]

Weird.

[Dan]

But I guess Tucker will just say that's Israel.

[Jordan]

Probably Israel. Whatever. Yeah, probably.

[Dan]

That it's great that Tucker has decided that he solved the great mystery and that Trump's religion is Israel, but that doesn't really work. There are way stronger and more popular critics of Israel than the people that Trump tweeted about, like Nick Fuentes or Andrew Tate. If the unifying thread between all of the people Trump's attacks are that they're hostile to Israel, then it doesn't make sense that those folks weren't included. And it's weird that he did include a lukewarm Israel critic like Alex on that list. Alex is wishy washy at best.

[Jordan]

At best.

[Dan]

Also, what's a civic religion? If it's the foreign policy choice to be allies with Israel, then that doesn't seem like a religion. It just seems like a government decision that Tucker opposes. If you want to use a term like civic religion, you need to define it, because it just sounds like a bullshit term that he's using to obscure the fact that he's saying that the Jews control the government. Yeah, uh, that's.

[Jordan]

I would say that civic religion is like the difference between subwayism and elevated trainism. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm. We're Chicago, so we're l. But we've also got underground.

[Dan]

Yes, we do.

[Jordan]

That's true. That's true. But we're not sub. You know, we're not only underground, Right? Yeah.

[Dan]

Like the New York.

[Jordan]

Yeah, exactly. Well, they've got elevator. Yeah. They've got elevated. I was just making a joke. None of it's real.

[Dan]

No.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Neither is this.

[Jordan]

Exactly. Funny how that works.

[Dan]

Fucking dumb. So anyway, I don't know if the Pope. That fight is about Epstein, but I know that Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massie, that was specifically.

[Jordan]

I refuse to accept that anybody gives a shit about the Pope in this whole. In this region, and not anybody gives a shit about the Pope. But in these. In these people, like in Tuckerson, in Trump, in all of these people, in the people who are having a comment publicly about the Pope, none of them give a shit about the Pope.

[Caller]

Pope.

[Dan]

Yeah. A shockingly low number probably yeah, yeah.

[Jordan]

You should have at least some vested interest in the Pope if you want to be like, can you believe he said that about the Pope?

[Dan]

Well, Tucker has some mildly nice things to say about him. I don't know.

[Caller]

All right, The Pope, the American Pope, first American pope, Pope Leo.

[Dan]

Hell yeah.

[Caller]

Is in American political terms, a liberal. He is, by the way, for mass migration. Shamefully so I would say.

[Jordan]

Well, he did move to Italy.

[Caller]

Catholic. While not anti Israel, he's not a Zionist because Catholicism doesn't recognize Zionism as part of its catechism. There are plenty of Catholics who love Israel and there are some who don't love Israel, maybe some who hate Israel, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the core tenets of Catholicism. And unlike so many other newer versions of Christianity, Catholicism has been around for thousands of years and has a very clearly articulated catechism. You know, what Catholicism believes and what it tells its members, its parishioners, it's Catholics, communicants to believe. It's all written down. And unwavering support for the state of Israel is just not on the list at all. At best, it's a faith that's agnostic toward the political fortunes of the Netanyahu government. Government. And that's not going to change because again, there's a structure and there is a list of beliefs, a creed written down. So it's pretty hard to force. Nothing is true a church like that to change its views because those views are effectively set in stone and have been for a very long time.

[Dan]

So right off the bat, as you pointed out, a lot of stuff isn't really written in stone. Well, established church doctrines change sometimes and Tucker knows that. Yeah, but I want to talk about how Tucker's being a weasel here by using Catholicism as a comparison to the United States because the Vatican is technically a state, but it's also the seat of a religion. The Pope is the head of Catholicism first and the head of state second. He can't make any political decision that's not also a religious one because he's the head of a theocracy. It's a literal impossibility for a non Catholic to ever be the head of state in the Vatican. So for them, religion and government are the same.

[Jordan]

That's the idea.

[Dan]

You can compare the Pope and the president as both being leaders and public figures, but you can't compare how they interact with the world because one's part of a democracy and the other isn't. And so in order to make these things analogous, Tucker has to come up with this idea of civic religion in order to turn our government into a papacy.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

If you believe in Catholicism, then you accept that God chose the Pope as his representative. If you don't believe in Catholicism, you can think he's a good or bad leader for a major world religion, but he doesn't have any power over you. The US President's power doesn't come from belief. Their right to lead is supposedly based on the consent of the governed. Until pretty recently, it was understood that we chose our leader. It wasn't a matter of God selecting someone to rule. Tucker was an instrumental part of pushing the narrative that Trump was chosen by God to be president and that God saved Trump from the assassination attempt. And, but so if you take a step back, it starts to look like what's going on here is that Trump and his media surrogates were a zealous force in making our secular government into a religious entity. They were selling the idea that Trump's right to power didn't come from us voting for him, it was ordained by God. Our votes were merely a recognition that we understood that God wanted Trump in office and we were submitting to them. I guess this is kind of blown up in their faces. And it turns out that the guy that they all thought hated the people that they also hated hates you too. This should be a moment for introspection, where someone like Tucker reflects on how carried away this stupid show has gotten and how his bow tie was way less embarrassing than this. But I don't think he can. And I think Alex told us why Tucker isn't speaking out against the president. Because that's, that's popular. Leftists don't buy anything. They don't buy your nicotine pouches.

[Caller]

They don't buy your supplements.

[Dan]

Tucker's audience is just Nazis, white identity adherents who insist they aren't Nazis, and maybe some well meaning people who are hooked on the excitement of the spiritual battle between good and evil story that he's telling. He knows that he can't hold onto the Nazis if he doesn't ditch Trump. And he can hold onto the good versus evil storyline. People. If he just makes Trump a villain who's been working for the Jews all along, this is the path that satisfies the audiences that Tucker's created for himself that he's able to sell products to.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So it's almost inevitable that this is where we're going.

[Jordan]

Yeah. But at the same time, you can't go too far because people are probably coming back shortly. You know, there's. This is good. This is like a lull in the season. It's a mid season. Everybody's kind of tired. We're waiting for the fucking season finale to get here, here. So everybody will jump back on whenever it's time to.

[Dan]

Tucker is definitely playing like he thinks that there's going to be a Democratic presidency next.

[Jordan]

Oh, yeah. Fun.

[Dan]

I don't think that these storylines come from a person who is planning on dealing with Trump for a long time.

[Jordan]

All right. Best of luck to him.

[Dan]

Well, it just becomes really problematic when he's not the devil.

[Jordan]

Right. Well, that is. That is a struggle. Yeah, that is a struggle.

[Dan]

I don't think there's any where to escalate.

[Jordan]

I. Every time I've ever thought that, I've been extremely wrong.

[Dan]

That's a good point.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Storytelling is.

[Jordan]

It's weird how that works.

[Dan]

Imagination.

[Jordan]

There's still gonna be another Avengers movie where the entire universe probably dies.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

And they already killed half of them.

[Dan]

Dr. Doom.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So Trump, he only likes Christopher. Christians who like Israel.

[Jordan]

There we go.

[Dan]

Yeah, that's it.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Caller]

The religion is Israelism. It's the support of Israel. That's why the President is totally comfortable surrounding himself with evangelical preachers, every one of whom has one thing in common, whether they're word of faith preachers or charismatic preachers.

[Jordan]

Theft.

[Caller]

That's a huge split among evangelicals.

[Jordan]

Lies, private jets.

[Caller]

That glossolalia, tongues, prophecy, seeing has a role in contemporary Christian worship, church services. They're mad at each other about that. Trump probably is even aware of that distinction. All of them are welcome as long as their faith includes unwavering support for Israel. That's the common denominator. That's the only thing that matters. And because that's the only thing that matters, the coalition, the ever shrinking, day by day shrinking coalition that supports this precedent is now out in force explaining that actually the Pope and Catholics, the Catholic Church itself, which about 20 minutes ago, most people thought was conservative in that it's pro life. For example, that used to be a tentative conservatism before this president. It wasn't for abortion. That the Catholic Church is somehow liberal. And not just liberal, anti Semitic. It's evil. It hates Jews. Well, Nazi. Watch Lindsey Graham make this case. They're religious Nazis in the Catholic Church. God bless the Catholic church. In the 30s, you didn't really get Hitler to the Pope. You really don't get this religious Nazi

[Jordan]

regime, the Ayatollah and it's hench. They are evil.

[Caller]

They will kill all The Jews, if we let them. And the Jewish people. One Holocaust is enough. Oh, see, the Pope doesn't really get that Nazism is evil. Catholics just somehow missed that memo.

[Dan]

I obviously disagree with the perspective that Lindsey Graham is taking here, but that clip is selectively edited in order to make it sound like he's saying that the Catholics are Nazis. He was saying that.

[Jordan]

No, he was saying the Ayatollian. Yeah. Ayatollians. Yeah.

[Dan]

That's the larger context. But if you just take that, you could hear that and think he was saying.

[Jordan]

I feel like I got it pretty easily.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

But who knows?

[Dan]

I think a Tuckler listener, an Ayatollahist or a Tuckler. So I think Lindsey Graham is. He's advocating for war with Iran, and I disagree with him. But he's right about the Vatican's relationship with Nazis, and that seems to be the part that Tucker is trying to mock.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

The Vatican archives have been opened and we know the relationship that existed between Hitler and Pope Pius xii. It wasn't that Pius supported the Nazis or that he didn't know that what they were doing was wrong. He sincerely believed that the Nazis were gonna win and he wanted to appease Hitler so the church would be safe in a Nazi controlled Europe.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

That was a continuation of the relationship between the Vatican and fascism that existed with Pius xi, who worked closely with Mussolini, which makes sense because they were both sort of in Italy. You can't say with certainty that if these people acted differently, they could have stopped the rise of fascism. But you can definitely look back and say that the fact that they had such a mild stance on it helped normalize fascism among people who believed themselves to be religious and wouldn't have had that excuse otherwise.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Lindsey Graham's argument is bad and he sucks. But the history of the Catholic Church isn't the part he got wrong. Tucker seems to be reacting as if Graham is lying about the Vatican during World War II, which seems strange, but it's not really that strange. All of the Catholics that Tucker likes are Catholic fascists who think that Pope Pius XII was the last real Pope and that everything since has been Vatican I. Yep. So, yeah.

[Caller]

Yep. Yep.

[Dan]

He thinks that the Vatican went off course after they appeased Hitler.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

When they took a turn towards, like.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Being a little chill.

[Jordan]

Yeah. The problem, it's always interesting whenever you read some of the stuff from, like, a guy who demonstrate, like, what we are seeing now, now is regardless of how much power you think you have, the amount of power you can take is a Lot more than you could ever imagine. Most people are going to roll over to the point where you see it happening from the fucking Pope. He rolled over before. Like, the Pope could have rallied an unimaginable number of people to give a shit.

[Dan]

Well, we'll talk about exactly the timeline about this later. I think you'll think it's. That's silly. But, yeah, sure, back in World War II times and right now, the Pope could probably rally a lot of people to be a little more like, take this seriously.

[Jordan]

All they have to do is just claim that they can do it. And people will be like, I guess you can.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But maybe, maybe it's not like a magic solution. But like, there, there's definitely like, okay, we can see the history. Nobody in their right mind would be like, the Catholic Church did everything right during this period.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it'd be a struggle.

[Dan]

So Lindsey Graham, like, he's saying this shit. He could never have said this a year ago. They would never get away with it.

[Caller]

It's interesting because a year ago, no Republican member of Congress would have dared say anything like that. First of all, that's insane. It's a slander against Catholics, Catholics saying this is a birthright. Lifelong Protestant, but it's just not true. It's a horrible thing to say about anybody. But as a political matter, it would have been crazy to say that, because Catholics, sincere, churchgoing Catholics, vote Republican. In fact, the more often you go to Mass, the more likely you are to vote Republican. And that's true across races, by the way.

[Dan]

Way.

[Caller]

So you see all these, you know, his weird thing to say, and he got more Hispanics to vote for him. It is true in 2024 than any Republican, maybe ever, more than Jeb Bush speaking Spanish, married to a Mexican lady. How did he do that? One of the reasons he did that is because a lot of Hispanics are very Catholic. They're Christian, they're religious, they go to Mass a lot. And because they do, because their faith, for some of them, their faith is at the center of their lives, they voted for the candidate who seemed most predisposed to their religious views. Maybe he's not a Christian or a fervent Christian, but he seemed like a man who would protect Christians, Catholic Christians included. And so they voted for him.

[Dan]

So let's unpack this for a second. According to the show Tucker is doing right now, these Hispanic Catholics were wrong to vote for Trump and they were misled to believe that he was Christian or would protect Christians. If that's true, you have to ask where they got that idea from.

[Jordan]

Who would have misled them with that information?

[Dan]

The answer to that question is people like Tucker.

[Jordan]

Oh.

[Dan]

It was a huge selling point during all of Trump's campaigns that if he didn't get in the left, was gonna more or less outlaw Christianity.

[Jordan]

That was the idea.

[Dan]

So Tucker is on his show saying that these Hispanic Catholics voted for Trump because he and his media surrogates successfully tricked them into thinking that he was aligned with their religious beliefs.

[Jordan]

Can you believe it?

[Dan]

This definitely is a blow to Tucker's credibility.

[Jordan]

You would think.

[Dan]

Yeah, you would think. But then the idea that there are Hispanic Catholics really hurts Tucker's point from earlier about how migration is meant to hurt the Catholic Church or the Christian church in general.

[Jordan]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Dan]

His ideology sees Hispanic people as an outside group regardless of where a person was born or how long their family has lived here. So the idea that there can be sincere, good Hispanic Catholics kinda means that the people you've used as outsiders can actually live here just fine.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Even beyond that, his whole point is that Lindsey Graham wouldn't have insulted Catholics like that a year ago. But according to Tucker, Graham's views haven't changed. He was a warmongering neocon back when Tucker was too, and Graham still is. Tucker isn't actually speaking to Graham's beliefs in any way. What he's actually trying to illustrate is a diminished cultural power that he feels like Catholics hold in US Politics. Graham can get away with this kind of talk because he doesn't need the Catholics anymore. They've been replaced. Tucker's not really saying it yet, but it's pretty clear who he's suggesting they were replaced with.

[Jordan]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

And it brings to mind a tiki torch.

[Jordan]

Interesting. Yeah, interesting. Almost. Somebody should appease those people. That's what I'm saying.

[Caller]

And.

[Dan]

Huh. Yeah, it's a. It's an interesting thought.

[Jordan]

I think it'll work. Yeah, I think it'll work this time. It is. It is so funny whenever you just hear some. Some fact that is kind of. That is unrelated or at least not directly related, but is emblematic of everything that is the reason we're here, which is Lindsey Graham was there during the first time we went over and murdered a bunch of people.

[Dan]

During. Yeah, he was.

[Jordan]

Now he's still there. And can you believe we're back murdering a bunch of people.

[Dan]

And he's doing relatively similar.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Like he's consistent. Tucker, like, he was super into the bow tie and the wreck war and Bush and all this. Shit. He's the one who's waffled all over the fucking place.

[Jordan]

Everywhere.

[Dan]

Like, Lindsey Graham's wrong, but I knew who he was, like, when I was 16.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Or whatever.

[Jordan]

We cannot be surprised that we're in the same place if the same people are there too.

[Dan]

Yeah. Tucker just keeps trying to fix the

[Jordan]

thing, get ahead of the. The Whatever. Whatever group of pitchforks and torches is out there. Tucker is running as far away as he can.

[Dan]

Yeah. And I think it speaks to his underlying intellectual cowardice.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And the fact that everything he does is basically just lies.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Like, he's just lying about Lindsey Graham.

[Caller]

So a year ago. No. And every Republican knows this because there's lots of polling on it, because politicians think in terms of coalitions and who's going to vote for me and why do they. They know this very well. So a year ago, no Republican would ever get up on TV and say, you know, think about Catholics is they're kind of Nazis. But there's Lindsey Graham doing it right there. This is a profound break, and it's a very clear window into what the actual faith is. Israel is the deal killer. Anyone who doesn't support the military aims of the modern Israeli government. Government cannot be part of the MAGA coalition. And Lindsey Graham has just told us can't be a Christian.

[Dan]

It's very easy to take what Lindsey Graham said and disagree with it, but still, Tucker feels the need to lie. Graham didn't call Catholics Nazis. He was calling the Iranian regime Nazis, which he did to argue that the Vatican is not recognizing the danger Iran presents in the same way that they didn't recognize the danger of Hitler. Instead of arguing against the point Graham actually made, Tucker is pretending that he called Catholics Nazis and said that you can't be a Christian unless you blindly support the state of Israel. I have no interest in defending Lindsey Graham because he sucks. But Tucker made a good point earlier about how you got to stand up for the truth. And so, like, stop lying on the. Graham. Come on, man.

[Jordan]

I mean, hey, what are you. What are you gonna do? You gonna just be honest about Lindsey Graham? Why? What. What is there that you could possibly say negative about Lindsey? You have to lie about this guy. Too good. That's my review of Lindsey Graham. Too good. That's the problem.

[Dan]

Did you know.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

That Space Jam was originally supposed to be Lindsey Graham? Scheduling conflict.

[Jordan]

Scheduling conflict. Wait. For the. For Porky Pig.

[Dan]

Jordan.

[Jordan]

Oh, for Jordan.

[Dan]

Yeah. For Michael.

[Jordan]

Well, cuz. Yeah. Cuz Bill Murray is basically the reason that movie exists.

[Dan]

And Lindsey Graham are type.

[Jordan]

Exactly. So he wasn't gonna replace Bill.

[Dan]

See what happened with Bill Murray. He just kept showing up in South Carolina.

[Jordan]

So weird.

[Dan]

And taunting Lindsey Graham.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And being like, no one's ever gonna believe that I was here. And they just became friends. Yeah.

[Jordan]

That was nice.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

It's good to make a friend in later life.

[Dan]

I think one of the things, like I said, one of the reasons that Tucker's show has to be this constant, like, back and forth. I didn't say that. Oh, I'm really this guy.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

That kind of stuff is because he lies all the time, but also because he just doesn't focus on stuff that matters.

[Caller]

But it's not just Lindsey Graham. This is everywhere today, in case you haven't seen it. Here's Patrick bet David on his podcast a day or two ago. Watch this.

[Dan]

I don't know why Catholics, you know, have this issue with Jews. I don't know what it is. See, the problem here is that Patrick bet David's an idiot. They only care about him because he made a bunch of money in a multi level marketing scam and has created this network that has the appearance of viewership.

[Jordan]

So we're going to go ahead and ask this question. Genuinely Catholics, why do they have a problem with the Jews?

[Dan]

Mm.

[Jordan]

Cool. Cool.

[Dan]

If Tucker's argument that everyone is turning on Catholics begins with lying about Lindsey Graham and then complaining about pbd, I think he should go pray for better content because this stinks. Yeah, you're not making a solid point.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I think. You know what I think? I think this is a very distinctly American problem. Because for these people. Right. History doesn't go that far back. Right. Because America doesn't go that far back. You know, if you're in America, Vietnam

[Dan]

started as a Catholic country.

[Jordan]

Exactly. You know, like that's what we're talking about. It doesn't go that far back. You don't have to. The Catholic Church shouldn't be held accountable for all the stuff the Catholic Church did.

[Caller]

Come on.

[Jordan]

That was way back. I don't even remember it.

[Dan]

Cruise. What?

[Jordan]

I wasn't there. You don't know anything. Could have been any reason. Yeah, could have been anything.

[Dan]

People talk.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Stories, they grow over time.

[Jordan]

You never know what the French are gonna do. So some, at times, you crusade.

[Dan]

It was the teen crusade. It wasn't children.

[Jordan]

Everyone, just you guys, you guys enjoy your twilight.

[Caller]

Now.

[Jordan]

The kid can be a vampire, but he can't go kill a bunch of people in the Middle East. Now what?

[Dan]

So in this Next clip. I don't know how to describe this other than Tucker tries to defend the way that Trump behaves.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Sort of through primate psychology.

[Jordan]

I like this. Yeah, now we're talking.

[Dan]

It's a good swing.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Caller]

Now, again, Trump is someone who, you know, has a lot of problems showing respect to other powerful figures. And this is. It's not just Trump. Most men, like Trump, are that way. They get along well with women because they're threatened by women. A woman's probably not trying to, like, kill you and become king. They're kind of loyal and. But other men, every other man, to a certain male personality type, is a potential threat. That's why kings kill their sons. Every man is a potential threat. And so Trump is not, on a gut level, instinctively respectful of anything or anybody. And that's one of the reasons he was a much needed transformative political figure for so long in the United States, because he was willing to ask questions that most people in Washington had never even thought of out of deference to the existing system, like, why do we have NATO? Is it really a good idea to offshore manufacturing? What, immigration, Actually our system helping the United States or hurting, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. All famously, the questions that Trump asked about the way we were doing things were made possible. He was able to ask those things because he doesn't have reflective respect for anybody.

[Dan]

So these are two entirely disconnected thoughts that Tucker's trying to present as one coherent idea. The first is that Trump doesn't reflexively respect people because women are weak and all men could be threats to his power. Why he lives in a constant dominant struggle with everyone around him for literally no reason other than he just. He lets his guard down for a second. That could be the second when a new Alpha man takes him down.

[Jordan]

I mean, we could say that this is exactly the type of relationship with one's father that would lead to you being a bad human being later on in life. But who could tell?

[Dan]

Also, there are kings in the modern world. I don't think King Charles killed his kids.

[Caller]

That's true. Whatever.

[Dan]

So then the second thought is that Trump was a much needed change in politics because he asked questions that no one else would. It feels like the second thought flows from the first one, because it's kinda like Trump doesn't reflexively respect ideas in the same way that he doesn't respect people, but that doesn't work. Tucker is trying to take Trump's psychopathic, bullying and antisocial tendencies and rewrite them as some kind of Instinctual distrust of things around you that might be a threat. He has this dynamic with people and that same inherent contrarian nature makes him have to rethink our government's policies, starting from first principles. But that's not true. Trump entered office both times with extreme agendas.

[Jordan]

Huh.

[Dan]

Both times people told him various things he wanted to do wouldn't work, and then he got mad and did them anyway. Which then serves as a fun real life example for why many of these policies we used to have were there to begin with.

[Jordan]

Yep. Would have been useful. Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

We kind of solved some of these

[Jordan]

things would have been nice.

[Dan]

And those things that Tucker lists as ideas that Trump has are bullshit. We know why NATO exists. We know why manufacturing jobs moved out of the country. We know whether or not immigration is a net positive. None of these are real questions. They're all complicated issues that Tucker wants to provide an easy answer for. NATO exists because the world order that came into being after World War II is not stable. And the best plan that we could come up with to make all out war less likely in the future was to create a network of alliances that would theoretically defend the existing borders of countries industries from encroachment. It obviously hasn't worked, but saying it hasn't worked isn't a solution or even an idea. It's just a complaint. Manufacturing jobs left the country because companies were allowed to make more money doing it that way. American labor was too expensive and unions had gained just enough power that the owners saw sending those jobs overseas. That was the best way to maximize profits. Manufacturing could come back. If we made foreign manufacturing more expensive or if the organizing power of labor is crushed, then that would bring it back too.

[Jordan]

Yeah. If we could be slaves, they would definitely keep it here. That would be the cheapest solution.

[Dan]

Totally.

[Jordan]

Absolutely.

[Dan]

Immigration is a net positive in every metric other than how it makes Tucker feel as a white man. That one's not as complicated as the other ones.

[Jordan]

No, no. That one's fairly simple.

[Dan]

None of this is sincere questions. And Trump's not like, reconsidering the ooh, what if I look at this angle now, it's a whole new apple in front of me or whatever.

[Jordan]

I find it interesting when men are very dumb about something that should be very obvious. Like, for instance, if one of the fundamental tenets of fascism is controlling every aspect of women's behavior, it is not because you are not afraid of women that you are trying to control every aspect of their behavior.

[Dan]

I don't need to control them because they're loyal and they're good. Not like other men who want to kill me and usurp my power.

[Jordan]

Right. Or you are terrified that giving them any sort of power would remove all of your bullshit and allow us to live happily and free.

[Dan]

I don't need to give them power because they wouldn't use it anyway.

[Jordan]

Fair enough. They're happy. You win this round.

[Dan]

Yuck. And I also think there's something really fascinating about this because Tucker, like, he's describing Trump like some kind of. Of a caveman, kind of like, you're a threat to my dominance. I must take you out.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Tucker doesn't live like that. He does.

[Jordan]

He doesn't know.

[Dan]

He has this weird fantasy that that's how men. Men work.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And, like, you don't. You don't live like this. No one lives like this. Trump's an asshole.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is crazy how many conversations we have about something that by its very nature should disqualify the president. Just by us asking that question means he should never have been president. If a president forces you to ask any of those questions, it is because you fucked up royally.

[Dan]

Rebuttal?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Mulligan, can I get a whoops on this?

[Jordan]

You know what? How about nobody change their mind about anything and we run it back?

[Dan]

Yeah, it's cool. So Trump was, you know, like, he saw Jesus and the Pope and he was like, I'm gonna big dog these guys.

[Jordan]

Well, you gotta.

[Dan]

I'm gonna alpha them.

[Jordan]

You gotta.

[Caller]

And so when you gotta nag the Pope, Jesus and the Pope and Christians and tweets out the F word on Easter morning. Kinda like, well, this is awful. But it's also kinda consistent with the Trump we know. This is just Trump turned up to 11. But what's interesting is there are certain circumstances where Trump shows sincere, reckless reverence. There are the outlines of an actual religious faith here, and they're not what you would expect. So here, for example, is Donald Trump the month before the last election. This is October 2024, visiting the grave of a man called Rabbi Schneerson. Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, who is.

[Jordan]

Was.

[Caller]

He's since passed away, the leader of a large orthodox sect.

[Dan]

So, like, why are you assuming that Trump is being reverent and respectful? Like, there's not audio that he's playing, which allows you to imagine that Trump isn't mumbling about golf. Yeah, but he's an asshole. Yeah, he was probably being an asshole there, too.

[Jordan]

Well, think about it this way. Right, Right. He's our president. We thought he was working for God. We loved him. We cried again.

[Dan]

Again. Whoops.

[Jordan]

Right? We did all of that stuff. Now, on the other hand, have you considered that it was not at all our fault or his, and it was Israel?

[Dan]

Right.

[Jordan]

So let's none of us do anything different.

[Dan]

Also, Tucker saying that this guy has since died, implying that it was.

[Jordan]

Wasn't he already dead?

[Dan]

Yeah, he died in, like, the 90s.

[Jordan]

Did he die?

[Dan]

Yeah, I was gonna say he died since he did the things that he did while he was alive. That's true.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Well, that's fair.

[Dan]

So anyway, Tucker's like, can you fucking imagine if Trump made fun of this rabbi?

[Caller]

Yes, there's. I totally can standing there. Looks like maybe Ben Shapiro there. Howard Lutnick wearing a kippah on his head. As you look at that, ask, is it possible to imagine Donald Trump ever mocking Rabbi Schneerson, who, by the way, and this is kind of the point, is considered by some of his followers to be the Messiah?

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Caller]

And to be completely clear, every American is allowed to decide for himself who the Messiah is. So that is not mockery belief. I don't personally believe it, but one of the reasons we've been able to live with people of different faiths in this country for 250 years is we don't mock other people's religious faith unless we're absolutely forced to. What, make me the fuck attend your religious ritual? Fuck you for a God. I don't.

[Jordan]

Oh, my God.

[Caller]

Unless it comes to that, we kind of let each other have our own religious views.

[Dan]

Yeah, we're cool.

[Caller]

And that has worked. That's changing very, very fast.

[Jordan]

My God.

[Caller]

But ask yourself, can you imagine Donald Trump sending out a meme mocking Rebbe Schneer? And of course, under no circumstances could you imagine that, because under no circumstances would that ever happen. Trump would not be allowed to do that, and Trump would never even consider doing it. But sending out multiple images, mocking Jesus, no problem at all. So that gives you a more precise sense of what our civic religion actually is.

[Dan]

I can't take this seriously because. Because as you immediately responded, so did I. I could very easily see Trump disrespecting this rabbi.

[Jordan]

Absolutely.

[Dan]

And Tucker just oozes insincerity when he's talking about the merits of religious tolerance.

[Jordan]

I mean, insane.

[Dan]

It's just impossible to humor this because around the time that Trump was visiting that guy's grave, Tucker was doing speeches about how daddy was home and he was gonna spank us.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

Like this is fucking nonsense, man. Calm the fuck down.

[Jordan]

I mean, furthermore, furthermore, furthermore, just this, this fact alone should keep everybody on their toes, Right? If you haven't called at least two out of the past five Trump insane things, you should not tell me what he will or won't do. Right. If you didn't call, that motherfucker's just going to steal a president. He's just going to go somewhere and steal the president. If you didn't call that, don't tell me what he might or might not do. He could do fucking anything.

[Dan]

Thing I was thinking about, like, when you said he, he went to steal.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Like, I legitimately was like, is he gonna say that Trump's gonna steal first? That was the craziest thing I could think of.

[Jordan]

This motherfucker tried to steal home on a full count with one out. One out. A man on third, and he's trying to steal home on a full count. Get the out of here.

[Dan]

Who does he think he is, right? Ricky Henderson? He stole a lot of bases, right?

[Jordan]

He did. He stole the most bases.

[Dan]

So I was very grateful for one thing that happens in this next clip, and that is that Tucker sort of tries to define what he means by civic religion.

[Caller]

Okay. A civic religion, by the way, is not a conventional religion. Civic religion is a series of customs, some enshrined in law, not all that a society, civilization, and its government observe. And it doesn't necessarily mean there's a God at the center of it. That's why it's a civic religion rather than a conventional religion. But our civic religion is, if you again, take three steps back and just assess the country with the eyes of a visitor, a modern Tocqueville, you can see it really clearly. What are the events? Who are the people who we treat with reverence? What do you actually not allowed to make fun of?

[Dan]

I'm glad that Tucker is defining his terms now, but unfortunately, that definition is so vague as to be rendered meaningless. It's kind of everything and nothing but bigger picture. I don't think that it's ever wise to imagine that Trump's behavior is reflective of us as a population. I get that he posted a meme that was disrespectful to Jesus, and two years ago, he looked solemn at a rabbi's grave. But I wouldn't read too much into that. He's an asshole. So whatever he's doing to anyone at any given time doesn't reveal some kind of grander truth. This doesn't show that you can make fun of Jesus. But you can't make fun of Jews or Israel. That's just the image that Tucker is selling the audience now to hopefully distract them from the whole Daddy's Home thing. Also, he's saying you can't make fun of Israel and stuff, but, like, you don't mess with the Zohan. Came out in 2008.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

Come on, man.

[Jordan]

You can make fun of Israel. Real.

[Dan]

I'm not sure exactly what it is that Tucker wants here, but he's just rephrasing an old line he probably saw in a meme quote. To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Dan]

This is a quote that goes around constantly and is attributed to Voltaire.

[Jordan]

Thomas Jefferson.

[Dan]

Nope, nope. Voltaire.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Dan]

Although I will defend to the death, you're right to say things I don't agree with.

[Jordan]

Probably going to go with Jefferson on this one.

[Dan]

It needs neither of them.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dan]

It was said by neo Nazi Kevin Alfred Strom, the founder of the National Vanguard, who went to jail for possession of child abuse material in 2008.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

Which is ironically the year that messenger.

[Jordan]

I would have loved it. It makes sense. That would have been right up his alley.

[Dan]

It's a shame.

[Jordan]

Yeah. He'll never get to know the joy of Zohan.

[Dan]

Yeah. So anyway, Tucker is paraphrasing and promoting the idea that was popularized by a child abusing Nazi.

[Jordan]

I think we know.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Jesus Christ.

[Dan]

So in this next clip, I. This is a little bit longer, but I needed to have a feel here. It's needed a little bit of a feeling. And the feeling that I get is that Tucker is mad about a Holocaust remembrance ceremony.

[Jordan]

Great.

[Caller]

Those are the questions you ask if you are trying to understand what our operative religion is. What's the religion of our leaders? Again, it's not a conventional religion necessarily. It's not Torah Judaism or Rabbinic Judaism or Evangelical Christianity or Catholic Christianity. It's the actual religion, the real religion, the set of Zoroastrian beliefs that we train with reverence. Well, it just so happens there was a religious ceremony ongoing today in the United States Capitol, complete with very recognizable religious iconography, symbolism. You may not even have known this was happening, but it was happening today as part of an eight day celebration of remembrance of the Holocaust, the period in the 1930s and 40s where the. The German government, the Nazi government murdered, in addition to a lot of other people, a whole bunch of Jews. How many? And that ended whole bunch, in part because the United States sent troops to Europe. Millions of Troops to Europe, you know, millions of government. And with the help of the Soviets, our allies at the time, we did that. And in the process of doing that, over a quarter million Americans, American men were killed trying to stop the Nazi government. Is that a whole bunch of men, A quarter million. A whole bunch of American men died fighting the Nazis.

[Jordan]

A whole bunch.

[Dan]

A grip of dudes.

[Caller]

But in today's ceremony in the Congress a chunk. There was no mention of them. There was instead this watch.

[Dan]

Ladies and gentlemen, a museum leadership program has included more than 72,000 U.S. military members. Through examination of the Holocaust, they gain insight into their own professional and individual responsibilities. The candle lighters are members of the United States Army 3rd Infantry Regiment, the Old Guard.

[Jordan]

Scattered applause.

[Caller]

I am sergeant ethan otnen.

[Jordan]

I remember.

[Caller]

Okay. That is a current. That was it formed US military member from the Old Guard, the 3rd Infantry Regiment, which is, you know, ever present at our public events in Washington, saying, lighting a candle at the menorah and saying I remember. No explanation of I remember. I remember. What. What are we remembering here? And we do have a sense that it's. We're not remembering the American soldiers who liberated Dachau, the whole bunch of American citizens not remembering the quarter million American men. Whole bunch who joined a war they had nothing to do with. Inherently. It wasn't taking place in North America, was taking place in Europe. It was really just a dispute was over Poland and Czechoslovakia and they sacrificed their lives to defeat the Nazi government that was murdering Jews and a lot of other people. Poles and Russians and Gypsies and Czechs and lots of people, a lot of Jews as well.

[Jordan]

Whole bunch.

[Caller]

But they gave their lives to stop that. But we're not remembering them. We're remembering only the victims of one specific ethnicity during these eight days of remembrance.

[Jordan]

And why is there a national Women's

[Caller]

Day that we also have that's also enshrined in American law in January? So there's a total of nine days of remembrance of one group of victims in a war that killed tens of millions of people globally. Tens and tens and tens of millions. The numbers are actually not even clear. So many people died. We're not exactly sure how many died, but many died, including close to a half million Americans. Over a quarter million in Europe fighting this Nazi not remember.

[Dan]

So I was listening to that and the reason that I needed to play a longer version of it was I legitimately wasn't sure what point he was trying to make for most of that. Yeah, I got that he was upset, but I couldn't tell. Like, why are you mad? What are you mad about? Is he mad that people were remembering the Holocaust on Holocaust Remembrance Day?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Does he think that Jewish people are hogging all the attention around World War II and that the good old boy American soldiers don't get enough credit?

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

This honestly just seemed really fucked up to me and it doesn't make sense outside of the knowledge that this is just a Nazi show.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

If you hear an American soldier say, I remember about World War II and you're upset that he isn't being more specific, you're fucked up. What could that soldier have said that would have satisfied tonight Tucker? He's mad about what he imagines is happening at a solemn moment. And also, if Tucker actually cared about any of this, he could look a little more into it and find that the days of remembrance involve speeches about all the victims of the Holocaust as well as liberating armies. How about that his whole act about how no one remembers anyone but Jewish people is complete bullshit that he's making up to serve his own purposes. And like, yeah, I don't know. I wasn't able to find every single years text transcript of speeches, but I found ones going back to Bush and Obama. And they didn't only talk about Jewish victims of the Holocaust. It's nonsense. Further, Tucker is pretending that we got into World War II as some kind of benevolent act just to save the Jews from Hitler. He's conveniently leaving out Pearl harbor, as well as tons of treaties and alliances we formed after World War I that were threatened by the idea of Hitler invading all of our allies in Europe.

[Jordan]

Europe.

[Dan]

We were directly attacked. And we had massive geopolitical reasons to not want Hitler to win that war, even beyond the moral obligation to stop a genocide if you can. Those American soldiers who went to fight in World War II weren't doing it just to stop Hitler from killing Jews. They were doing it because of that day that lives in infamy. Because our national interests and economic partners were threatened by Hitler and because it was the right thing to do. If Tucker wants to relitigate World War II, then I guess that's his prerogative. But I know where this stuff goes. I've read enough books that sound just like this to know that he's gearing up to just ask some questions about the Holocaust. Oh, yeah, when he says that Israelism is the civic religion, what he actually means is this. Yeah, he's arguing that the civic religion in the United States is a myth that was built around the Holocaust. Which probably wasn't as bad as everyone says.

[Jordan]

It was a whole bunch.

[Dan]

Or maybe it was that bad, but Aryans had it bad, too. Come on.

[Jordan]

Yeah, come on.

[Dan]

That's what he's talking about. Yeah. He's trying to build up the courage to deny the Holocaust.

[Jordan]

Man. It is. It is wild to think that this guy, having done all that, he's done his backup plan. His backup backup plan is to go more Nazi. That's his. That was his end game. Like, I'm trying to be a little Nazi. But I guess. I guess I've been pushed to the point where I got to question the Holocaust.

[Dan]

I got to see if I can outflank Fuentes.

[Jordan]

Imagine. Imagine thinking to yourself like, shit, I got to question the Holocaust. What a day that must have been for Tucker.

[Dan]

Hey, dipshit, how old are you?

[Jordan]

Are we sure that more than a whole bunch of Jews died? Could have been a few. Really?

[Dan]

What new piece of information did you stumble across?

[Jordan]

You know, there's a new book was written where they removed numbers and replaced it with approximates, and that's really changed my view on a lot of things.

[Dan]

Have you been reading that Strom guy's books?

[Jordan]

Cuz millions of people died and a whole bunch of Jews. Whole bunch.

[Dan]

This is shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah, but.

[Dan]

But Tucker is a classy guy.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

He makes sure that he comes back immediately after this and is like, hey, no disrespect to the Jews.

[Jordan]

No disrespect.

[Dan]

No disrespect.

[Jordan]

No fooling.

[Caller]

So that is not to disrespect the Jewish victims of the Holocaust or the Second World War? Of course not. Merely to note that in this country, only one group gets to be remembered, and remembered with grave what? The uniformed members of our military who take no credit for ending this Holocaust. That doesn't make any sense.

[Jordan]

I mean, no, it doesn't know the

[Caller]

backstory in any of this. And someone wrote that down and told you be like, what if that doesn't what? And it almost seems like there's a kind of guilt implied in this, which is a little weird. There are countries where, you know, that might be appropriate. This is not one of them. Because again, this was the country to help liberate people from those camps and fought the government that built those camps. We're the good guys. What is this? It doesn't make any sense, except when you see it in the only terms in which it makes sense, which is as a civic religion.

[Dan]

This is legitimately just content you'd find on Nazi message boards. In the early 2000s.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

It's not new. It's not interesting. Interesting. It's only even notable because the fact Tucker Carlson is pushing this bullshit. And that's a testament to how little we punch Nazis in this country.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

He should be afraid to go outside. Like, this is ridiculous.

[Jordan]

Straight up.

[Dan]

Anybody who says no disrespect to the Jewish victims of the Holocaust is fighting an uphill battle. I don't think that I've ever heard something like that from someone who wasn't just trying to be like, I'm about to deny the Holocaust. I'm just a little bit afraid. I gotta. I gotta take a drink before I do.

[Jordan]

The most easy thing in the world.

[Caller]

World.

[Jordan]

Is to not disrespect Holocaust victims. It's so easy. Every day. I don't do it. I'm. Right now I'm not doing it. I never apologized once. I've never accidentally done it. I've never, like, tripped and been like, oh, sorry, I disrespected the Holocaust.

[Dan]

A lot of people put up hall of Fame numbers in not disrespecting victims of the Holocaust without knowing it.

[Jordan]

365 days every year. Not 363. Not 364. Fucking day in, day out. I put in the work to not disrespect the Holocaust eight days a week. That was a bad year. Absolutely. 25. 7. Yep, yep, yep.

[Dan]

Tucker's just lying about how no other groups get to be remembered in terms of the Holocaust. But I know what he's talking about.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

No one has any problem with recognizing that it wasn't only Jewish people who were killed by the Nazis. And no one working at the Holocaust memorial is threatened by this information. But everyone is suspicious of the guy who has to point out that it wasn't just Jews whenever the Holocaust comes up.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

We all instinctually understand that this guy isn't saying what he's saying because he needs to correct the record or make sure everyone has the facts.

[Jordan]

It's about accuracy.

[Dan]

He's saying it because he's angry and he thinks that the Jews are trying to play on his sympathy. And we all kind of know that. And Tucker is that guy, and he doesn't like that people respond to him that way.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

You can't. Buddy. 10% of our movies are still all about how great Americans were in World War II. A lot of them were fine.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. No, but no one talks about it.

[Jordan]

Yes, they do.

[Dan]

No.

[Jordan]

Oh, okay. Fair enough.

[Dan]

Saving Private Ryan doesn't exist.

[Jordan]

They almost Always talk about it.

[Dan]

Band of brothers.

[Jordan]

The idea.

[Dan]

You don't mess with the Zohan Man.

[Jordan]

Yeah. It is. It is. Like the one thing that I've always thought about it, which has never really been made clear. Right. Is we made peace with the country of Germany.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Jordan]

We did not make peace with Nazis.

[Dan]

And a fashion.

[Jordan]

Do you see the difference there? There's a difference.

[Dan]

Some of them.

[Jordan]

We put up with the head Nazi, he died.

[Dan]

Took care of that for us.

[Jordan]

He did take care of that for it. I would be disappointed if we weren't capable of pulling it off on our. On our own. True. Yeah. That would be a real bummer.

[Dan]

True.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

There was a reckoning afterwards. So I think that we can all get the sense that what Tucker is talking about is not about accuracy or history. He's angry and he feels manipulated.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And this is where the guilt part of what Tucker is saying comes in. No one should feel guilt about the US not getting involved in the war sooner. What happened happened, and most of us weren't even alive then. So you don't need to feel guilt, but you should feel something close. You should feel regret. You should feel disgust that people do that kind of shit to each other. You should feel something like, we can't allow this thing to happen again. That's not guilt. And I don't know anyone. Like, if I. If I've ever met anyone who wanted me to feel guilty about something like the Holocaust or slavery.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Mostly people want you to understand the scale of what happened, how it was allowed to happen and how that relates to the present day. They want you to take some of the lessons that we learned from the horrors of the past that we can't change and try to apply them to the present, which maybe we can change.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

To cut through the bullshit. Tucker experiences this kind of thing, like guilt because on some level he knows that his white identity beliefs require racial and ethnic violence. And Holocaust Remembrance Days feel like someone reminding him of what it's gonna look like if he gets his way. And that makes him feel uncomfortable.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Because he's reminded of how this works.

[Jordan]

You know, people aren't. Like, right now, I'm very popular and people like what I'm saying right now. But whenever we do it, it seems like people don't like us. It's almost like we shouldn't be doing it. It's almost like we're lying to trick people into doing something they don't actually want to do. Nor is for their own benefit.

[Dan]

People are trying to guilt me by talking about the Holocaust, because on some level, they know that I'm not really against it that much.

[Jordan]

Right. I was gonna say people try and guilt me about the Holocaust because they know I'm kinda into it to it.

[Dan]

Cool, man. So, civic religion, sure. It's Israelism, which I'm not sure if it's distinct from Zionism or. I don't. I don't know. These words mean. Yeah, but they have blasphemy laws in the civic religion.

[Jordan]

Do they?

[Dan]

They call everything anti Semitism.

[Jordan]

Oh, my God.

[Caller]

Only terms in which it makes sense. Which is. As a civic religion. Which is what it is. And it comes complete with blasphemy laws.

[Jordan]

Can't say the F word on Easter. Right. That's a blasphemy law.

[Caller]

It's the religion that can't be mocked. So clearly that's not Christianity. I'm Jesus today. No, I didn't do that. Oh, he's your God. Okay, I'll send a meme out with me posing as your God with a demon over my shoulders. Nothing you can do about it. I'm not even going to explain what that was. I don't need to to. Because I don't care about your faith at all now. But there are certain things that are blasphemy, and at the very top of that list is something called antisemitism.

[Dan]

Again, these are just old neo Nazi talking points. He's riffing off Kevin Alfred Strom's quote and complaining about how anti Semitism is the blasphemy of our civic religion and it's all just the same shit. Also, I feel like Tucker is taking Trump's memes way too seriously. I respect that he's offended, and I think that's fine, but pretending that Trump's memes reflect underlying truths about who controls society is really dumb. Plus, Trump had to take that meme down. So if we're using Tucker's logic, he literally wasn't allowed to make fun of Jesus. He did that and then had to lie and pretend that he didn't. Yeah, this is softball. Weak ass, lukewarm Nazi trash. Tucker needs to stop chewing around the edges and just say what he fucking means already. Cause this is annoying.

[Jordan]

It would be nice. It would be nice. I mean, I. Obviously it wouldn't be nice, but at the very least, the word. Okay. You know, when I was growing up, there was always a word count requirement. They always wanted like, 500 words. They always wanted you to demonstrate that kind of stuff. And now that we're in the present I feel like they should have gone hard the opposite way within the smallest number of words possible. Be clear about what you're saying. You know, like, that seems like such a good skill because this motherfucker is spending so many words on not saying the very obvious thing.

[Dan]

But he is saying it, right? He's just saying it in a coward, weaselly way.

[Jordan]

Right. But I mean, he could have just been like, I'm a Nazi.

[Dan]

Yeah, but then he might get treated

[Jordan]

like a Nazi, and he doesn't want that. Yeah, that is true.

[Dan]

He still wants to be able to, like, go to a restaurant.

[Jordan]

Why was everybody so mean to Hitler? Right? Like, he was just a head of state. You should be inviting him to your restaurant. The same way you might want Trump to show up at your restaurant who

[Dan]

might be the Antichrist.

[Jordan]

Wow. But he'd sell a lot of fucking heroes.

[Dan]

So Tucker seems to think here in this next clip that anti Semitism is a crime.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

And then he tries to pull.

[Jordan]

Has he been to America?

[Dan]

He tries to pull. One of the craziest moves I've ever seen.

[Caller]

Okay, now what exactly is antisemitism? It's one of those crimes that it's a true crime in the United States. And actual antisemitism, hating people because of their blood is a crime. Certainly in Christianity, that is a crime. That is wrong. You're not allowed to do that. But that is a universal crime. It applies to all people, whites, blacks, Asians, Jews. Everybody has a right to be treated as an individual because everyone was created by God as an individual. That's the Christian understanding. It's a universalist understanding of rights. And that's the old civic religion we had, the civic religion of civil rights. Now there was a civil rights movement which was, you know, fraudulent maybe at its core, maybe its aims were not. Not advertised, honestly. Maybe there was another point to that. Just possible. But conceptually, it's kind of hard to argue with the fact that the assumptions behind civil rights are Christian assumptions. They're Western assumptions. They're the assumptions upon which our whole civilization is built. And the core assumption is that standards rules apply to everyone because every human being possesses a soul given to him by God at creation, which is not an act that men brought about, but that only God can bring about. God creates life. He endows each human being with a soul. That soul is eternal. Therefore, each individual possesses rights granted him by God, not government. And a good government protects those rights and in so doing, upholds God's law. That's Western civilization right there. There and in a kind of diluted, silly way, the civil rights movement was upholding those ideas.

[Dan]

Come on, man. So if I'm following Tucker, the current civic religion is Israelism, which seems to be a form of white guilt that's been foisted upon the Western man because of the Holocaust. Sure, Tucker is against this and is nostalgic for the past when civil rights were the civic religion, but not the civil rights movement. That was a silly communist conspiracy. The old civic religion of civil rights meant that all people were created equal with a soul from God, which is why black people couldn't vote and women couldn't get a job without their husband's permission. Yeah, because we were equal.

[Jordan]

God knows they shouldn't get a credit card, Right?

[Dan]

There's only one way to describe this content, which is reassurance. Tucker is saying some horrible shit and regurgitating straight up Nazi talking points from way back. And he's trying to soften how it sounds to his audience by doing. Doing this dumb act about how he loves civil rights. He's feeding the audience Nazi shit, then trying to reassure them that they're not Nazis. They're actually the only people who care about civil rights, unlike those civil rights activists. Also, being anti Semitic in the United States isn't a crime. Holocaust denial, it's a pastime. It's illegal in some other countries, but based on the fact that all of Tucker's friends not being in jail, he should realize that it's totally cool here.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Ye is still. Like, he's doing concerts.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know how to describe it this. I don't know how we would get this law or how we would enforce it, but this level of gaslighting is a physical crime. This is an assault. I truly. It hurts.

[Dan]

It hurts my words in a little.

[Jordan]

It hurts my head to have somebody gaslight me because it is like I. Do I even exist? Does my memory happen? Am I. Am I a fiction created to keep this man sane?

[Dan]

Are you saying that the way that Tucker is behaving is an affront to truth?

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

Trump of that earlier.

[Jordan]

I would even say it's an affront to just like, basic physics. Like, if anything he says is true, then I can no longer believe that force equals mass times acceleration. This world is cuckoo. If anything he says is true.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. I don't. I, like, I think that, you know, in the same way that, like, quantum stuff made us rethink physics.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

And, you know, like, oh, these rules, they're different than we thought.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

We got to get to that level with laws where it's like, it doesn't really make sense how we write this law.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

We got to do.

[Jordan]

Something's got to be done about this.

[Dan]

We need quantum laws.

[Jordan]

I understand. I understand. Yeah. It needs to be a superposition of both legal and illegal at the same time. Until we collectively decide Tucker needs to fuck off.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. Somehow this must be illegal, but not encroach on free speech. How are we gonna do this?

[Jordan]

Hey, listen, you're probably fine. Tucker's not. So just don't be that guy.

[Dan]

So Tucker, I don't think he realizes it, but as he talks, he ends up, like, severely contradicting himself.

[Caller]

Well, some of us thought, stupidly, that the cattle we are. That the real lessons of World War II were every person has inalienable rights. That's what we were taught. That was a pretty common understanding. And say the 1970s and 80s, Nazis are bad because they redlined one group and said, these people don't have the same rights as everyone else by virtue of their blood.

[Jordan]

Is that just. Is that the only reason Nazis are bad?

[Caller]

Eugenics. They were interested in people's bloodline. Who are you related to? We're going to find out if you're a secret Jewish. Well, that's disgusting. That's. We used to say that's Nazi behavior. And then the next thing you know, every other federal form you get asks you what your race is, and you're thinking, well, why does that matter? I thought you told me it didn't matter. I thought you told me it was evil to care about that. But you wake up in 2026 and our closest ally is using our weapons to kill and displace people because of how they were born. And not only is that okay, the only real crime is complaining about it. Well, that tells you. Well, it tells you a lot of things.

[Dan]

So Tucker might not realize it, but he's doing the exact same thing he's complaining about everyone doing, which is making the Holocaust all about the Jewish victims. He's explaining why the Nazis are bad, and he's saying it's because they chose one specific group and tried to exterminate them. This whole show has been complaining about Jewish people claiming some status as singular victims in the Holocaust, but he just casually affirmed that this is the case because he's not really confident with this material yet. He's. He's kind of an open micr at Nazi stuff.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not a good Nazi.

[Dan]

Also, he doesn't know that you don't have to fill in those forms, all that stuff. I mean, and a lot of them have an option that says, I prefer not to answer for questions like race

[Jordan]

and stuff, specifically not for the people themselves, because people like Tucker exist.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

He's really upset, but his complaints seem kind of petty. And sure, it sucks that Trump is buddied up with the Palantir people who are supplying technology and weapons to Israel to commit genocide against the Palestinians, but that's not something that just happened after the 2024 election. Trump's been connected to Peter Thiel for years, and the only reason J.D. vance is the vice president is because of Thiel. The first Trump administration openly used Palantir to aid ICE with deportations and shipping, and Tucker didn't care at all because none of these concerns are real.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

This is all bullshit that he's using in order to justify the coming denial of the Holocaust that he's going to engage in.

[Jordan]

Yeah. It's. I mean, it could not be more coming down the pipeline.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan]

The idea that we aren't already automatically saying, oh, this guy is denying the Holocaust. We don't even need to go further. The future doesn't need to exist currently. He is denying the Holocaust.

[Dan]

I. I don't. I. I want to be clear about something.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I haven't listened to every single one of his shows, so it's entirely.

[Jordan]

He might already be dying. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah.

[Dan]

But this is a situation where we could set up a elaborate. Like, you press a button and confetti shoots out.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

When he finally does it. Because it's happening.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dan]

There's no soon if not already.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah. Like, but here's the thing about that is if you're already denying the Holocaust, there's no reason to use this many words, you know? Yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah. I don't. I.

[Jordan]

This feels like. This feels like scaffolding for a good Holocaust denial.

[Dan]

I think maybe he needed to fill time to, like, get his ads.

[Jordan]

I mean, I don't know. But, like, if you're denying the Holocaust, you know, you're soft denying it by saying a whole bunch. But that's not full on denying it. You know, that's him trying to be like, oh, well, some people are 250,000 and some people, you know, like, he's doing that. No, that's.

[Dan]

That's what I'm saying is, like, he's. He's well versed in being slippery and smooth.

[Jordan]

He knows how to do white Identity. Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

Kind of talking points and racism and. But I don't think that he really has sea legs when it comes to like, all right, fuck it, I'm going to do the thing that there's probably no return from.

[Jordan]

I think you do have to practice being a Nazi again. I have a spotless record not being a Nazi.

[Dan]

You got to get your reps in to be like, believable.

[Jordan]

Not one time have I ever have I been a Nazi. It's not even been a thought I've had.

[Dan]

I bet you'd suck.

[Jordan]

I would be such a bad Nazi.

[Dan]

So Tucker complains here a little bit about the definition of anti Semitism.

[Jordan]

Oh, great.

[Caller]

And that civic religion once again is called Israelism. And it means that any criticism of Israel is by definition bad. And any praise of Israel is by definition virtuous. Because the only truly good thing is Israel. And we know that by the actual definition. And there is one of anti Semitism. So what is anti Semitism? And if you've been called it or if someone's ever implied it, you. You have a problem with the Jews. You're kind of obsessed with the Jews. Say people who are completely obsessed with the Jews. You probably wonder, like, what are they accusing me of? Well, here it is. This is the ihra International Holocaust remembrance alliance. Ihra. You may hear this. The IHRA definition of anti Semitism, do you know what it is? It's on their website. It's worth looking at. Spent the morning reading it. Fascinating. So here's the actual definition of antisemitism. And by the way, way, this is a now globally recognized definition in shrimed in law around the world, in more than 40 countries. This is the definition, and I'm quoting. Anti Semitism is a certain perception of Jews which may be expressed as hatred towards Jews. Huh. So anti Semitism is a perception. It's a feeling. Okay.

[Jordan]

Is that what a perception is?

[Caller]

You'll have to have any feeling or perception you want. You could look at facts and come to any conclusion you wanted. No, no, no, no.

[Dan]

The IHRA didn't say you can't be antisemitic. So far from what Tucker's read, they just described what antisemitism is. Yeah, you're free to have whatever feelings you want, but people are also free to describe them. There are a lot of different definitions of what constitutes antisemitism. And Tucker is choosing the IHRA version intentionally because it includes this in the list denying the Jewish people their right to self determination. Eg, by claiming, assuming that the Existence of the state of Israel is a racist endeavor. Sure. It also includes this quote, drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis. I think that these are both understandable and definitely can be tools of anti Semitism. But because of how they're worded, many valid criticisms of the Israeli government could fall under these headings. Yeah, and that's. That's messy.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

It's not. It's imprecise.

[Jordan]

Yeah. They were assuming that that wouldn't happen happen.

[Dan]

But even so, it's not illegal to be a bigot. Plus, the IHRA put out this definition in 2016. The US approved it in 2019 during Trump's first term, and it isn't legally binding. But you'd think that if Tucker's so upset about this and how it changes the civic religion of the United States, he wouldn't work so hard to reelect the guy who adopted this definition during his first term. You'd think Daddy wouldn't be coming home if this mattered so much. Yeah. Seems really hard to justify his actions during 2020 election. 2024.

[Jordan]

Don't remember those. That was too far back. Oh, how long have we been doing this?

[Dan]

Just.

[Jordan]

Just a couple of. Just a couple of days. Trump just showed up and started behaving weird. Oh, man, it was so weird.

[Dan]

He's changed.

[Jordan]

I can't believe he changed so much within a very short period of time.

[Dan]

God, I spent so much time with him before. He was so cool.

[Jordan]

It's so crazy. The thing that changed, though, really, was him being mean to me.

[Dan]

Oh, the bully doesn't want to hang out with me anymore, and now I realize he's a bully.

[Jordan]

Daddy's mean to me.

[Dan]

So Tucker has this definition. He just. He kind of riffs a little bit around.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Have a little fun. Yeah.

[Caller]

Certain perceptions are inherently immoral. They're, quote, anti Semitic, which may be expressed as hatred towards Jews. Oh, so you don't have to hate the Jews to be anti Semitic to. No.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that's.

[Caller]

Well, that answers the question for those of us who don't hate Jews at all, how could you be anti Semitic if you don't hate Jews? Well, you can be, according to the official definition of it. Continuing the, quote. Rhetorical. Rhetorical meaning talking words. Speech formally protected. No longer. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non Jewish individuals and. Or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities. Wait a second. So antisemitism is not necessarily hatred of Jews, and it can be expressed toward non Jews. So you don't have to hate Jews, and you don't have to express or have these perceptions, these feelings toward Jews. You can be non Jews, too. What is this?

[Dan]

Tucker brings to mind a Nazi mud puppet. His delivery is so clownish and infantile that I just can't imagine. He's not made of felt. Yeah, like, what's this?

[Jordan]

What are you talking about? How do you lift this glass all the way to your mouth?

[Dan]

I don't have feet.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

All of this is very simple to understand and explain. And if he's actually confused by this definition, then he's just revealing he's super dumb. Let's say you carve a Star of David onto a guy's garage door. He's not Jewish, but you know that he just signed a deal with some business people who are. Maybe you don't actually hate Jewish people. Maybe you were in the running for that deal and you're just mad that you didn't get it. That's a very simple scenario where a person who doesn't hate Jewish people can carry out an act that is super anti Semitic against the property of someone who isn't Jewish.

[Jordan]

Yeah. It took you about how long to say two seconds? Yeah. That was about as long as it needed.

[Dan]

The important thing to understand about a clip like this is that Tucker. Tucker fully understands this. He's just pretending like he's reading a foreign language because the alternative is to take this conversation seriously, and that would start to indict him and make him feel bad about how he's getting ready to deny the Holocaust.

[Jordan]

I mean, the. How can you be anti Semitic if you don't hate them? What if you just think they're a sub race of people not equal to you?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And to be totally clear, I'm not like, like, fully signing off on and endorsing the IHRA's definition. I think that there's some useful things in there that are, you know, quite accurately describing anti Semitism. Sure. There's some stuff that's kind of like. I don't know. I don't know if this is. I don't know if this is how we want to phrase some of this. So I'm not. I'm not here, like, taking that position against Tucker.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

I'm taking the position that what he's saying is stupid.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I mean, listen, listen, when you write that stuff down, you're thinking, well, we're probably not gonna commit a genocide in a few years. Right. But then when it happens, you're like, well, we can't rewrite it now to include. Sometimes we commit genocides. That's real fucked up.

[Dan]

It's messy.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it's messy.

[Dan]

So Tucker claims that 2/3 of the examples of antisemitism are actually just criticism of Israel. Sure. In this definition, I'm sure.

[Caller]

Well, the people who wrote it at the IHRA probably anticipated this would be confusing to you. So they gave 11 examples of what anti Semitism is. Just so you know, like, how do I know if I'm being anti Semitic? Well, here are 11 examples of those 11 examples, and we did the math. Two thirds are criticism of Israel.

[Dan]

Good math.

[Caller]

The state of Israel, the nation with the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Bibi, criticism of Israel in 2/3 of the examples that the IHRA gave.

[Jordan]

What's 2/3 of 11?

[Caller]

That's anti Semitism.

[Dan]

So this just isn't true. But it's more complicated than saying that it's false. For example, I brought up that example from the IHRA definition earlier, quote, denying the Jewish people their right to self determination, eg, by claiming that the existence of the state of Israel is a racist endeavor. This is one of the 11 bullet points on the IHRA definition. And it's a situation where things could be in a gray area, which is a great name for a podcast. Someone could use that standard to call a lot of criticism of the Israeli government anti Semitic when the criticism may not be rooted in anti Semitism at all. At the same time, what that bullet point is describing, bribing, definitely could be an anti Semite saying anti Semitic shit. It's not so much that this is calling all criticism of Israel antisemitism, it's more that it's not precise in a way that makes the definition easy to exploit by both ends of that spectrum.

[Caller]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Dan]

When Tucker says a bunch of these bullet points are just criticism of Israel, what he means is that Israel is mentioned in a number of them. The issue is that some of them are things like holding Jews collectively responsible for the actions of the State of Israel. Israel that mentions Israel, but it's not saying that criticizing Israel is anti Semitic. Yeah, this is an easy distinction to make if you care at all about the truth, which Tucker does not.

[Caller]

No.

[Dan]

And it's silly to pretend it's an

[Jordan]

instantly easy decision to make. Right. Like it is. It is always important to remember that when they're writing these down, it is generally a response to the most common. They hear not a lot like, okay, listen, one out of a thousand times we hear this absolutely Useful criticism. We get it. We're all for it. We criticize people too. But 999 times out of that, a thousand, this motherfucker is saying anti Semitic shit. Okay, so we can include that. Sometimes it's not, but fuck it, Fuck that guy.

[Dan]

Yeah. Like this would. This definition would exclude and. And can wrongly label some valid criticism.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

But it would also accurately describe a fair amount of people who are like, Tucker.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So that's why it's messy.

[Jordan]

Anytime I have ever had a conversation with somebody in good faith and I. And they have a valid criticism and I have a valid criticism, neither of us go, oh, you're anti. We go like, oh, shit. Yeah. It's only when there's an invalid criticism that somebody goes, fuck you.

[Dan]

Whenever I talk to racist muppets.

[Jordan]

Yeah. It goes bad somehow. It always goes bad for me.

[Dan]

Yeah. So Tucker, you know, he's going down this list of things and he's having a fun time.

[Caller]

That's anti Semitism. Including. Here we go. Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis. Oh, in other words, if you think what's happening in Gaza is genocide, well, Nazis committed genocide. Now the state of Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, meaning they're trying to eliminate people on the basis of their blood. You are an anti Semite.

[Jordan]

Oh, okay.

[Caller]

You're an anti Semite.

[Dan]

If you think that that's kind of tough because I can kind of see all the sides here. On the one hand, Tucker is making the point that the Holocaust was a genocide and the world agrees that Gaza is too. If A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C. That's how it works. It's clear cut math. On the other hand, I get the point that a group like the Ihra is making, and I get that there are meaningful differences that make the logical formula natur not fit. But it's also messy. I generally try to avoid these kinds of comparisons because they're fraught with meaning and pain that I have the luxury to not be personally connected to. But I can also see how some would. Would say that it can't be bigoted just to make a comparison. Sure. But I can also see how, like, that's really attacking someone in a. In a point that is A soft.

[Jordan]

Yeah, No, I mean, there was a time when it would have been. No, it's not. Sorry. Bubbly.

[Dan]

It's messy.

[Jordan]

You shouldn't have done it. Done it.

[Dan]

I definitely don't agree with Tucker, but if there's one bullet point on this list that I Can see some real trouble with. It's this one. But I also understand why it's a bullet point. I get it.

[Jordan]

Well, I mean, nobody really thought they were going to do it, so why wouldn't you put it on there? Because they weren't sure and now they are. It's kind of. It's tough.

[Dan]

So also, it turns out that being Christian is anti Semitic.

[Jordan]

That sounds right.

[Caller]

It also tells us that the suggestion that Jews killed Jesus is classic antisemitism. Classic antisemitism. So there goes the New Testament. The whole New Testament is anti Semitic too. Read the Gospels and see if they fall under that definition. They do. Why does this matter? Well, because about 40 US states and the District of Columbia and our biggest cities, Miami, Los Angeles, have adopted this. This is their standard that they voted on and adopted. It's in the law, this standard.

[Dan]

So it's anti Semitic to say that the Jews killed Jesus. And the Gospels don't back this up. No matter how many times Tucker has seen the Passion of the Christ.

[Jordan]

Come on.

[Dan]

There's a beauty to how the story of Jesus crucifixion is told in the Gospels where it was definitely the Romans who killed Jesus, but it couldn't have happened without the consent of the public and the scheme that was set in motion by the elites and shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

No one can be blamed for killing Jesus because we all did.

[Jordan]

That's the idea.

[Dan]

Everyone killed him.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

On the cross, Jesus literally said, forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do. Do you think that same guy is interested in finger pointing about who is more responsible?

[Jordan]

They know what they do. They don't know what they do. Those guys though, they know what they did.

[Dan]

Yeah. Do you think that Jesus is like, oh, avenge me. Or do you think that blaming certain groups for killing Jesus is part of a human legacy meant to stigmatize out groups?

[Jordan]

Huh?

[Dan]

Basically, I think if you're religious, that's awesome and I respect your beliefs. However, if you're a Christian and you want to argue about who killed Jesus, I think you're a loser who doesn't get the point. And that's really how he feels. Yeah.

[Jordan]

I mean, listen, my wife, she loves watching true crime. Loves watching true crime. Right. And a lot of the times whenever they do those Cold Case Files, they'll have found out who. Who did the crime, but they're already dead. Right? So at the end of that true crime documentary, they don't go, and now we kill everybody that that guy knows. Right. That seems a little bit too crazy, right? Somehow that doesn't seem to be the case for these guys. Weird now, weird how that works, that you can't think for two seconds.

[Dan]

Yeah, but you got to keep moving.

[Jordan]

Yeah. It's important to keep moving.

[Dan]

Yeah. Like, who know. You know what Tucker makes me think of, of a guy who's about to get a. Like a temporary swastika tattoo just to see how it feels, you know, like not. Not a permanent one, just.

[Jordan]

And then he goes to a show and somebody plays Nazi Punks off one time, and he's like, I'm not wearing this anymore.

[Dan]

And then he just walks home sadly kicking a rock down.

[Jordan]

Never be cool.

[Dan]

Like, he's Snoopy.

[Jordan]

Ah, nuts.

[Dan]

Yeah. So this is where things got bad. This is where things got bad news early. But I looked at this, and there was an hour left in this.

[Jordan]

Fuck you. Fuck you. Nope, not in ours. Not in ours. God damn it.

[Dan]

So that's why I was confused when he said this.

[Caller]

I want to end with probably the most mocked and yet clearest evangelist of this new faith, this Israel is. You could say it's Christianity without the New Testament. And that would be someone, again, who's often made fun of for being dumb or he doesn't know what he's talking about. But it's sometimes people like that that give you the clearest picture of what the people in power really are talking about. And that person would be Sean Hannity over at Fox News. Not a bad guy, not a mean guy. Lifelong Catholic, if you asked him. Are you a Catholic? Absolutely. Yeah, I'm a Catholic. And I think he is not an attacker, even a claim to understand his personal religious faith. But watch Sean Hannity, cradle Catholic, describe the Pope. This is his reaction to the President of the United States attacking the Pope, head of the Catholic Church.

[Dan]

Church.

[Caller]

And here's Sean Hannity's response as a Catholic to that. Watch. He doesn't want any conflict anywhere. And he was talking about violence. And I'm like, have you even read the Bible? Have you read the conflicts, the wars that were, that the Israeli people that were. They were empowered by God to defeat their enemies?

[Jordan]

Did you never.

[Caller]

Did you ever hear the story about David slaying Goliath through the power of God with a slingshot against this massive giant? Or the conflicts and the wars of King Saul and so on and so forth? And frankly, all throughout Israel's history, they've been surrounded by enemies. But as God's chosen people, they, against all odds, keep winning. Pretty amazing. So it does take a kind of cable news. Mentality to say of the Pope, hey, you ever read the Bible?

[Jordan]

It's hilarious.

[Caller]

Hey, think about the Pope. This guy's never read the Bible. He's just the Pope. So there's that.

[Dan]

Got his ass. Got his ass. So here's how I know that my brain is just gone. Yeah, I was listening to that, and I was like, I gotta listen to Sean Hannity's show. This sounds like shit. He sounds so boring. I gotta check out an episode of this. That's not good.

[Jordan]

No, that's no good.

[Dan]

So to be clear, Hannity is not splitting with the Pope because the Pope criticized Israel. Hannity is splitting with the Pope because the Pope and Trump got into a Twitter fight. Incidentally, the day after Tucker did this episode, Hannity got on his show and said he was no longer a Catholic and that it totally wasn't because of the Twitter fight that Trump got into with the Pope. And that actually happened a long time ago. And he's not a loser. Tucker can try his best to make this all a big Israel or Jewish conspiracy, but the truth of the matter is this is about Trump. Hannity sided with Trump over his lifelong religion because that's what people around Trump are expected to do. Hannity gets it. He's a blowhard who thinks way too highly of himself, but I think he at least understands the game that he's playing. The game all of these people decided to enter into was one that was scripted well in advance, and Trump was wins. In order to become a Trump media surrogate, you have to debase yourself, because the thing you're doing is preposterous. It's Donald Trump and you want him to be president. Sure, Trump is crazy, but you're the guy who tried to sincerely argue that the crazy guy should be president. So maybe you're the crazy one. It comes with money and a lively, mean audience and a proximity to power, but the price is that you've lost from the job. Hannity gets it. He's playing to lose, and he doesn't care how stupid he looks because he's got an audience of one. All of these other Trump people are kidding themselves, thinking that somehow they're gonna be the one person who enters into a shady deal with Trump and comes out ahead. All of them are. They've already lost and they have no idea.

[Jordan]

Insane.

[Dan]

If you're Tucker and this is your response, you look like a crybaby loser. If he had anything, he would be releasing documents and taking Trump down with his tax return burns or whatever intel he could get his hands on. But this, it's just more explicit Nazi whining where Trump is maybe now the Antichrist. By doing a show like this, Tucker is more or less revealing that this is the best he's got. And if you're Trump, you gotta feel pretty good about the decision to cut this loser loose. Cuz he sucks. He's no threat.

[Jordan]

He's got a low IQ and his family knows he's fucking stupid.

[Dan]

And he needs a psychiatrist.

[Jordan]

He really does. Yes. This is terrible.

[Dan]

You are. This is a white flag.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

This is bullshit.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Hannity's gonna get through this and I

[Dan]

gotta watch that boring ass show. I mean, I, I was listening to that. I'm like, he's drunk, right? Like that sounds a little drunk.

[Jordan]

He sounds terrible.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah. People slingshot. Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan]

Hey.

[Dan]

Hey, Pope, you know about David and Gly?

[Jordan]

If Hannity's drinking, I think we might have something to look into.

[Dan]

I feel like if there's someone who cares less.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

About being taken seriously then Tucker, it's got to be Hannity.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Like he's been doing it for too long. Yeah. To have. If he gave a shit. It's way too. It's way past the expiration date.

[Dan]

Yeah. I kind of want to check out a Hannity or. Yeah, yeah, I might do that.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Who knows where Alex?

[Jordan]

Who knows? Who knows where he is right now?

[Dan]

So look, dude, the Pope, he just said some chill anti war stuff, right? And then Trump was like, you're not Christian.

[Jordan]

He was kind of a dick.

[Dan]

Yeah, man, it was ugly.

[Caller]

But listen to the content, which is actually more interesting and less funny and little meatier than it seems at first. So the Pope is saying, look, I'm a Christian leader. The Christian gospel, which I represent, however imperfectly this Pope may represent it from my perspective, imperfectly, but whatever. All Christian leaders have a duty to consult the gospel as they think about their positions on things. That's the whole point is the gospel. And as a Christian leader, the leader of the biggest Christian denomination, like, I'm not for war. And maybe some wars are possibly defensible under just war theory, which no one ever really explains. But you can imagine a war of self defense, violence that most Christians would feel comfortable with. Being a Christian probably doesn't necessarily mean you oppose all violence in all circumstances. Maybe it should, but in practice it doesn't. But this Pope is just saying something pretty conventional like that. Nothing crazy, actually. No name calling. No great departure from Christian theology or ethics as people have understood it for thousands of years. And the response is, hey, you haven't read the Bible. There's a ton of killing in the Bible. Israel is constantly under attack by its neighbors, the Amalekites, the Philistines, you name it. And they fight back with God's blessing, and they kill. And that's what they're supposed to be doing. Which is true, by the way. It is all in there, but it's not in the New Testament. And for Christians, that's the difference. It's not a matter of the Old Testament being irrelevant. It's certainly not. And Christians understand it as one long story. And as Jesus famously said, I came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, to bring it to its intended conclusion. I'm here so the law will have its desired effect on you. But Jesus never offers a single order. Order to kill or hurt anybody. And there's no place in the entire New Testament, the four Gospels, the letters that follow, mostly from Paul, and the vision at the end by St. John called Revelation. There's not one page or sentence in the entire New Testament in which Jesus is recorded saying, they're very annoying or they're a threat or they disagree with us or they're of another faith. Killing. Kill them. Not once. In fact, it's the opposite of that. In fact, it's so clearly the opposite of that that you have to wonder, who's reading the Bible and who isn't? Yeah.

[Dan]

Who's reading that Bible? So after Trump threatened to end Iranian civilization in one day, the Pope made a little comment that was begging both sides to calm down and saying that this wasn't good for anyone. In response, Trump tweeted at the Pope, saying that the Pope was, quote, weak on crime and took credit for him being chosen as Pope because. Because the bishops were all trying to suck up to Trump by picking an American.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I'd say that's probably true.

[Dan]

With the whole history of appeasing fascists, it's probably not a great sign that Trump is bragging that he thinks that the Vatican chose a new Pope based on their fears of what he might do to them. Yeah, that kind of sounds like appeasing does. So Trump encouraged him to, quote, get his act together as Pope, which is a ridiculous sentiment.

[Jordan]

I love it. I love that. See, this is the problem. Sometimes, whenever you go after the Pope, I'm fine with it.

[Dan]

Well, the phrasing of it is, get your shit together, Pope. Crazy Pope.

[Jordan]

Get your shit together, Ben.

[Dan]

So that day, Trump continued to talk shit about Pope Leo and then posted A picture of himself as Jesus. The next day, Trump kept on talking shit and saying that the Pope should stay out of politics. Then the President of Iran tweeted a message of support to the Pope. The day after that, the Pope responded saying, quote, the things that I say are certainly not meant as attacks on anyone. And the message of the Gospel is very clear.

[Caller]

Clear.

[Dan]

Blessed are the peacemakers. I have no fear of the Trump administration or speaking out loudly of the message of the Gospel, which is what I believe. I'm here to do what the Church is here to do. We're not politicians. We don't deal with foreign policy with the same perspective. He might understand it, but I do believe in the message of the gospel as a peacemaker. In response, Trump tweeted, quote, will someone please tell Pope Leo that Iran has killed at least 42,000 innocent, completely unarmed protesters in the last two months and that for Iran to have a nuclear bomb is absolutely unacceptable. Thank you for your attention to this matter. All caps, America is back to the Pope. Can someone get the Pope on the line?

[Jordan]

I mean, oh boy.

[Dan]

So then the Pope subtweeted Trump saying, quote, woe to those who manipulate religion and the very name of God for their own military, economic and political gain, chain dragging that which is sacred into darkness and filth.

[Jordan]

You know what I love about the Pope? Cowardice. Huge fan. You subtweeting people. Yeah. That is bullshit. That undercuts every single fucking bullshit thing you could possibly say about fucking anything. If you're subtweeting a motherfucker, it's cuz you're a coward. It's cuz you're a loser. It's cause you fucking suck.

[Dan]

Wait till the end of the story.

[Jordan]

Shit, Pop. Fuck this guy.

[Dan]

It's a reasonable reaction, but wait until the end.

[Jordan]

Sure.

[Dan]

So after. After the Pope said this, Trump accused the Pope of supporting Iran having nukes and insisted that they totally weren't fighting.

[Jordan]

Hell yeah.

[Dan]

Then the Pope came out and said that some of the things he tweeted and said were written weeks in advance and were not responses to things Trump said. Quote, much of what has been written since then has been more commentary upon commentary, trying to interpret what has been said. The talk that I gave at the prayer meeting for peace a couple days ago was prepared two weeks ago, well before the President ever commented on myself and on the message of peace that I'm promoting. And yet, as it happens, it was looked at as if I was trying to debate again the President, which is not my interest at all. And that Gave everyone kind of an off ramp. So everything cooled down after that because the Pope was like, I don't want to debate, bro.

[Jordan]

All of these people.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Can go fuck themselves. It's every single. The idea of you fucks being allowed to talk to each other, let alone through the Internet, infuriates me.

[Dan]

The President tweeted a picture of himself as Jesus, and the Pope tweets anything.

[Jordan]

I mean, just.

[Dan]

We can't handle it.

[Jordan]

Everybody go home. Everybody go home for a good two weeks. Think about what you've done. Get rid of all your clothes, wear potato sacks, and then let's all go outside together as one.

[Dan]

And let me say this. Pope Trump is wronger. He's more wrong.

[Jordan]

No, I disagree. I disagree.

[Dan]

Now, you can't. You lose.

[Jordan]

You lose.

[Dan]

Now, I get. I get what you're saying. When you start a fight with the person that you know is crazy.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

Then you're crazy.

[Jordan]

Either you're crazy and you lose, or you're crazy and you win. So you lost.

[Dan]

I get that argument. But also, Trump is definitely wrong.

[Jordan]

Sure. But that's like saying that the lightning is wronger than the clouds. Like, sure. This dude's gonna be a piece. We know what he does. You know what he does. The responsibility is on you now.

[Dan]

Well, I think that you're under cutting the Pope.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

That guy Is the Pope not a force of nature.

[Jordan]

Absolutely not. Apparently he's a little loser who cries and whines whenever the President mean to him.

[Dan]

Yeah. And like, Trump is like, hey, man, could someone get the Pope on the line? Why didn't he call Leo?

[Jordan]

He could have.

[Dan]

Leo's a guy. Why didn't he call our guy?

[Jordan]

He could have called him.

[Dan]

Yeah, he's called the Pope. True.

[Jordan]

That's available to him. He's the President of the goddamn States.

[Dan]

The Pope was traveling.

[Jordan]

Fuck off.

[Dan]

So this has nothing to do with Israel or any kind of grand political conspiracy where people are making rational choices. We have a lunatic as our president and he was trying to bully the Pope. That's all that happened.

[Jordan]

Yep.

[Dan]

Also a major point about Tucker's clip, what he said. He and Alex Jones have a fundamental disagreement about the New Testament. Alex believes that Jesus is not a pacifist at all. And he encourages righteous violence and says that people who preach that Jesus wants us to turn the other cheek are globalists trying to pacify the Christian patriots.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

These two cannot possibly have compatible religious views. And yet they pretend to be so in sync with each other, almost like neither of them actually cares. About this shit at all. And it's all for show.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Crazy.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So we got one last question clip here. And I'll say that the reason there was another hour left is because Tucker interviews some celebrity online Orthodox pastor I find to be difficult to understand because I feel like that's prideful.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And so an Orthodox pastor shouldn't have a YouTube channel where they're like self promoting and stuff. I feel like that kind of contradict.

[Jordan]

Oh, well, celebrity itself is against God.

[Dan]

It's weird. Anyway, I didn't care to listen to whatever. That was gonna be a 5050 shot. It was gonna be about how the Holocaust wasn't real. Tucker will get there eventually, I imagine.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But for now, here is a good offer amp.

[Caller]

In Jesus's very first sermon, in the very first gospel, Matthew, Matthew 5, the famous sermon on the Mount, he addresses this really clearly. And I think anybody reading it for the first or hundredth time comes away thinking, well, a lot of things, but among them would be Jesus is really down on violence and he's really down on greed. Very much opposed to both, because he says it really, really clearly. And not just down on violence and greedy, but taking the prescriptions against those things in the Old Testament and accelerating them to a point that shocking really to modern ears, to ancient years, to any human being. The demands that Jesus makes on people are shocking. He says, for example, all in Matthew 5. Worth reading. Amazing. Really radical. Not really of this world at all, which is kind of the whole point. Point. He says, you've been told not to kill, don't commit murder. Moses told you that. I'm telling you, don't be angry. If you curse somebody, you risk going to hell. That's what he says. So you can debate what that means. Is it possible to apply that standard? Can you actually live up to that? Pretty hard. But what you can't conclude is that Jesus is in favor of dropping bombs on kids, blowing up entire apartment buildings, raping people in prisons. You can't conclude that because it's the opposite of that. And so if you have concluded that by reference to Old Testament texts, the book of Russia, truth, you're espousing the tenets of religion. But it's not Christianity, it's our new religion, Israelism. That's just what it is. Call it that, call it that. Just be honest about what you're saying. Outline it for us, give us the creed, think of a new name for it, give us 10 points. We can all recite them. People who don't can be Punished. But tell us what the religion is. Be straightforward with us. Stop playing this head trip on us and telling us that something that's clearly anti Christian is in fact, the real Christianity. Because that's just not true. And this kind of deception is making everybody crazy. Spring is the most refreshing time of year. Nothing compliments it better than black rifle coffee. Lots of it.

[Dan]

So that clip started with the Sermon on the Mount, really being against Greek. And it's nice that it ends with him plugging a sponsor. Super fun, kind of bookendy. And I would say that I don't agree with Tucker, what he's saying.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

But spiritually, underneath what he's saying is people need to just be more clear about what they believe.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And I would say you, too, buddy. Yeah, you're talking about yourself.

[Jordan]

These kind of lies are driving everybody crazy.

[Dan]

No, they're driving you crazy.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Because you are a clear Nazi.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dan]

I mean, just can't. He feels so free when he's able to say, like, isn't it funny how stupid Trump was that we've been pretending it wasn't the case this whole time?

[Jordan]

Man.

[Dan]

If he would just let go and be, like, throwing slurs around.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Talking about how, like, maybe Hitler was right, all that fun with it, I think he would feel so free.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan]

He's being driven crazy by a fear that black rifle coffee will leave him.

[Jordan]

Yeah, man, I. I just don't know. It feels like. It feels like that. When you win, you should get to celebrate. Like, this is. This is the problem with these kind of guys, right? Good people, cool people score a touchdown, they have an end zone celebration. They do something. They throw the ball into the stands. They live a life. You just did something cool and eventually you'll die. Right. Guys like these, I don't want to. I don't want them. Pathetic. Pathetic. Enjoy your win. Be a Nazi to the max, either.

[Dan]

Yeah, they're. They're the kind of people who, like, only have two modes. They don't have fun. Touchdown celebration. They have that. Or they snap someone's neck. They, like, go way too far. And I think that, yeah, Tucker's the boring, mope version. Losing loser. And it's too fucking obvious that, like, you. You're out.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

You got cut out. Like, yes, he was starting to go against Trump, and he was far more open than some other people were about trying to shift his brand up. But, like, he got fired. He was on his way to quitting, but he also.

[Jordan]

Maybe. Maybe he was on his way to quitting.

[Dan]

Bingo.

[Jordan]

He was. He looked like he was on his way to quitting, but maybe being on your way to quitting is a nice way to get a little bit more so you don't quit. But if you've been fired, fuck it.

[Dan]

Yeah. And if. If he's going to come out with a show like this that is transparently anti Semitic Nazi talking point garbage, and he's going to be like, maybe Trump's the Antichrist, all this shit, and he's not pulling out blackmail that he has on Trump, then he doesn't have anything.

[Caller]

Nope.

[Dan]

He's. He's impotent.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dan]

And I would expect he's just going to lash out with more of this and see if there's enough money in this territory.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And then if it is, he'll get that tattoo permanent instead of the stick on.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess. I guess the. The question for all these guys, right, is can we jump or do we have to, like, little bit at a time, you know, are we just going to dip our toes in and then take another little step out of the kiddie pool and so on and so forth, or are we just going to jump off the diving board and go into Nazi. Right. And it's. It's frustrating to see them try the stairs when it feels like, to all appearances. Appearances. Get on that diving board and do a backflip, buddy.

[Dan]

Well, and I think when you're in an environment where everybody is going down the stairs, it looks normal. But when you have, like, Nick Fuentes has gone off the diving board.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

That guy from Fresh and Fit podcast is gone off the diving board. Like these other people are doing moves and you look silly inching your way into the water.

[Jordan]

That guy did a twist and then a flip and then was like. And the Holocaust didn't happen. Happen. You're like, maybe it was a bunch of people. Shut up.

[Dan]

Also, you're in your 50s.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Absolutely.

[Dan]

Get in the fucking pool or splash or dry off.

[Jordan]

Absolutely. Splash or get the fuck out.

[Dan]

Fucking prick.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Anyway, I hate this guy and I'm sorry that I did this, but, hey, Alex was out of studio because who knows?

[Jordan]

I hate that guy. And I'm sorry. He.

[Dan]

He's completely bailed on his own career.

[Jordan]

That's fair. That's fair.

[Dan]

So anyway, I hope. I hope Alex comes back because I'm not covering Harrison. The dark ages didn't work.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And now I'm thinking about watching a Hannity episode.

[Jordan]

What happens if Hannity turned into real good crazy? I remember Hannity when I was with my grandfather, he would listen to him on the radio and he was fucking nuts.

[Dan]

Was this when he had that Let Freedom Ring? Yeah.

[Jordan]

Theme song? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

That song is about domestic violence.

[Jordan]

Man, we are old and that. Well, he's fine back then. Oh boy.

[Dan]

Yeah, I remember those days too. And I slot him in as kind of a boring guy. Yeah, but I mean, we're 20 years later.

[Jordan]

Yeah, Maybe he stepped up his game.

[Dan]

Yeah, we'll see. That sucks.

[Caller]

Oh well.

[Jordan]

Oh well.

[Dan]

We'll see what we find for next time. But until then. We have a website.

[Jordan]

Indeed we do. It's olagefright.com.

[Dan]

yep. We'll be back. But until then. I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DzxClark. I am the mysterious Professor.

[Jordan]

And now here comes the sex robots.

[Dan]

Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding.

[Jordan]

Hello Alex. I'm a first time caller.

[Caller]

I'm a huge fan.

[Jordan]

I love your work.

[Dan]

I love you.