A (2:35)

Yes.

B (2:35)

You know, I've been planning this conversation for a while and it's finally happened. So thank you for coming.

A (2:41)

Thank you for having me. You're welcome.

B (2:44)

I want you to teach my audience the best way to move back into the country. The cultural shocks, what's really happening in the country around people moving back. You know, December time, a lot of people come into the country. For most people, that's the introduction into Ghana.

A (3:01)

Yes.

B (3:01)

Right. And they see a different type of Ghana. And after that, it's a whole different type of Ghana as well. But for you, what was the moment that made you think you want to move back to Ghana?

A (3:14)

So initially, when I came in 2011, it was really that I wasn't really planning to stay. It was supposed to be a getaway. And then I ended up staying a couple of years. So when I had left in 2013, so I came 2011, stayed two years. When I came back in 2016, that was when I decided that I was moving. So it was a combination of me believing in Ghana as a potential place to build a life and build a career and seeing that it was an opportunity for me as a person who wants to do media work, to be able to do that. Because during the time of 2011 to 2013, I was hosting a TV show, Maternal Health Channel TV series, and got that taste of what it's like to be telling stories in Ghana. So when I came back in 2016, that was my intention, was to be doing media stuff again. So it was a combination of that. And I had actually met someone that I was dating that also was part of the influence. But that wasn't the major reason for me.

B (4:17)

Are you sure that was in the major?

A (4:19)

He said, are you sure that was the major? I would say that it was probably 50%, but the other 50% is what I really believed in about Ghana, because that relationship didn't end up continuing. But I still stayed because I could have. Because if it was the only reason, I would have gone back. Because there are some people who move here for relationships and then when the relationship doesn't work, they actually go back because that was the foundation of why they came.

B (4:45)

Well, think about it, Ivy. You were born in Ghana.

A (4:49)

Yes.

B (4:49)

Right. And then you went to abroad when you were two years, isn't it?

A (4:52)

Yes.

B (4:53)

So what reason did you have in terms of cultural and community? Would you have said that you want, because of that reason, you want to come back here?

A (5:01)

So I know that for Ghanaians, they had a hard time understanding me wanting to come because many Ghanaians talk about wanting to leave and when you talk about building community, for me, I've always been a person that I'm okay doing stuff by myself if I have to. So when I say that, what I mean is. For instance, when I was 11, there was a movie I wanted to go see. I think I was 11 or 12. And I went on my own. Like me, myself, got on a bus and went to the movie theater, watched the movie by myself, went home. And that moment I realized that if I want to do something, I don't have to wait for other people to do it. And I think here what I found was I had ease in moving around by myself and being able to network and meet people, because that's how you build your community, by going places, networking, meeting people, staying in communication with them, and that's how you build your network. So for me, building a sense of community, making new friends wasn't something that I found to be scary or difficult because I know some people feel a sense of scariness of going somewhere by yourself, especially women. A lot of women don't like going places by themselves. They want to bring their friends. They're always like, they don't want to go somewhere unless their friends come along with them. But I'm a person that if I want to go somewhere, I just go. I don't wait and say, oh, oh, she's not coming with me, then I'm not going. I'm like, if I want to go, I'm going regardless if somebody's coming with me or not. So I was able to. I had a list of things I wanted to do, where I want to go. I was always looking online to see what's happening. When I find out about events, I just go.

B (6:47)

Did you used to visit Ghana often?

A (6:49)

No, I didn't visit often. So I came. I had visited Ghana before, but it wasn't frequent. Coming from Canada, it wasn't something that we did frequently. I find that people coming from the UK come frequently because it's a shorter trip, it's less expensive than coming from Canada. So it's not something that I did a lot. Like, I came after I was six or seven years old. We came as a family. Then I came again when I was 25, on my own and stayed for a couple of months. And I really believe that that trip when I was 25 planted a seed in me that I didn't realize at the time because I had a really great time. Then I came again when I was in my early 30s, and then I didn't come again until when I came in 2011. And so it wasn't like I was coming all the time, every year or every two years. It was a few times that I had been. But I really, truly believe that that time that I came when I was 20 and stayed for two months, I think that that planted a seed in me subconsciously, without me realizing it, because Ghana was not my dream.

B (7:55)

I see.

A (7:55)

New York was, right. New York was a dream. I had a dream of going to New York, being a successful fashion model or design. That was a dream, not Ghana. So I think that that time planted a seed in me without me realizing that years later I would end up coming.

B (8:13)

Right. So how long have you been in Ghana now?

A (8:15)

Now it's nine years. Great. Since 2016.

B (8:18)

During the nine years, what are some of the things you've seen and for that reason you decided to preach about? People should consider Africa as a, as a whole.

A (8:28)

It's got the potential that you see in other countries. That would have been like 100 years ago. So, for example, for someone coming from the U.S. you know, in 1925, 1930 maybe when your grandparents were born or something, that's a time when it was the early days of cars being manufactured, TVs, like different types of technologies and businesses, insurance companies that were being started 100 years ago. And that was the beginnings. And then slowly it grew. It grew, it grew. And these people passed this business down generation to generation and they become these huge companies like, like Coca Cola or, you know, in Europe, Louis Vuitton. Louis Vuitton, I think is over 150 years old and was started from a homeless guy who started making suitcases and then family member took over, then another one, and it's like passed down generation to generation. This is a place that you can build a legacy. You may not see it to fruition, but if you are a person who's a legacy thinker, you can build something that you can pass on to family and then they can pass it on to family and so on and so on. Or just building your own business is easier here, if you're willing to go through it, than somewhere else. Because there are simple things that you can make big business out of in this environment that may be challenging for you in another environment because it may be saturated already. In another environment. You know, like there's somebody I know who has started a cashew business here and would he have started the cashew business in, in, in America? Would it have been easy for him to do there? It might be easier for him doing it here. You know, you can start a business of dried fruits, you know, because it's all about branding, too. Come to Ghana, you can find mango. You can find, you know, different things that are growing here. And you can decide, I want to make a mango type drink, or I'm going to make this. I'm going to like whatever it is that we have, pineapples. You can decide you're going to do something with it. The reality is there are things here that you can use as a business. I know somebody who has a huge business selling waste beads.

B (10:45)

Okay.

A (10:45)

You know, a few people actually who have successful businesses selling waste beads. They come from Canada and the U.S. they buy waste beads in bulk. They sell. They even work with the people who make the waist beads to create something unique. Because we see the same style, they get different beads, put it together to make their own unique flavor, take it back. And now they're selling waste beads and making a huge income from waste beads. Something so simple but yet can be genius in you making money selling it abroad. So I saw how this is an environment that there's things that people don't appreciate here that somebody appreciates that they can sell elsewhere. So they can export if they want to export. You know, you can build business here or you can, you can start a farm. You can start a farm here if you want to go into farming. I know somebody who moved here and started a farm and is doing well with it.

B (11:42)

So, Ivy, is it a thing that the Ghanaians in Ghana don't see the opportunity or they don't find it as easy? And you know, the diaspora, either Ghanaians from the diaspora or African Americans, when they come to Ghana, they see it as an easy route or they recognize opportunities faster.

A (12:04)

I think that whenever you go into an environment that is a new environment, you see things that the people there don't see. So. And that can be anywhere. Somebody can decide to leave their country and go to Canada and they might see something there that is a business opportunity that somebody who's been in Canada their whole life didn't see. So when you move to another environment, you see the opportunity differently than the people who. It's no big deal to them. Does that make sense?

B (12:36)

It makes sense. But having said that, how many people, how many Ghanaians go to Canada and think of business in Canada?

A (12:42)

They usually go there and just go and work for someone.

B (12:44)

There you go.

A (12:45)

Yes, they usually go there and work for someone. That is right. That's correct. But I was just using that as an example of the human mind when it sees something out of their own environment, recognizes something that the people who are there don't see. Like, if somebody who lives in Tamale their whole life comes to Accra, they're gonna see things in Accra that to them is like, wow. But someone in Accra is gonna be like, what is this? This is nothing.

B (13:13)

Yeah, but what does Ghana really do to the people that when they come in, most of them, about 80% of people, they think of business when they.

A (13:20)

Come to Ghana because they see the opportunity to start a business easier than somewhere else without as much red tape as somewhere else. Like, I think because there's a lot of relationship here, there's a lot of informalities here that make it easier for someone to just say, I'm just going to start doing something, if that makes sense.

B (13:48)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what?

A (13:49)

Yeah.

B (13:50)

Because look, back in the uk, there was a lady that was making wache in her house and people used to come and buy from her house. At some point, the council came in to close her up because she can't do it. Regulations and all of that. When we come back home, it's slightly.

A (14:08)

Easier because of the informalities.

B (14:10)

The informalities. I think I understand what you're saying.

A (14:13)

Yeah.

B (14:14)

Let's talk about this. You worked a bit close to the whole Year of Return agenda. Beyond a return. You know, you were the. You were one of the.

A (14:23)

I was a social media manager. That's it. I was working in their Secretariat office. So, yes, I worked directly for Ghana Tourism Authority. The Year of Return and the beyond the Return Secretariat were underneath Ghana Tourism Authority. So we reported to Ghana Tourism Authority.

B (14:42)

Awesome. Now, from your view, how do you think the entire model would have been structured better to give people more information on their return?

A (14:56)

You know, first of all, I think that the launch of the Year of Return campaign, everyone who was part of the team didn't realize how big it was going to become. That's the first thing I'll say. I think a lot of people, and this is my opinion, from my observation, I think a lot of people on the team thought it was going to be successful, but didn't realize it was going to become massive. And so when it became massive, it was actually overwhelming because it's like having, like, let's say. Let's say you've prepared for. And I'm just throwing these numbers out. I'm not saying these are the numbers they had. Like, if you've prepared. If you have a party at your house and you've prepared that 100 people are coming to your party, you've prepared for 100 people and then all of a sudden there's 3,000 people. You're like, wait, I didn't, I wasn't prepared for this many people. I think that's what happened. They were prepared for people to come, but didn't realize it was going to be as a massive number as it was because it snowballed and I think it snowballed and became bigger because of social media. I remember when I did the video of Steve Harvey when he came and some of his frat brothers who live in Ghana came and greeted him at the Du Bois center. And then I did the quick interview with him. That video went viral. And it was like instantly people from abroad were suddenly sending messages like, what is Steve Harvey doing in Ghana? What's happening in Ghana? That Steve Harvey is in Ghana? What's happening? What's going on? And the same thing happened at the beginning of the year when Boris Kojo, Bozema St. John, Michael J. White, Rosaria Dawson, like a whole bunch of different people who were in Ghana, celebrities from the us, they started posting their social media and that also helped with gaining traction. So social media played a huge role in people wondering, what is happening in Ghana, that these people are there, what is happening in Ghana? That media is having this attention because as a result, you'd had news organizations in the U.S. like CNN and ABC and then the U.S. you know, I think ITV, I mean in the UK, ITV, BBC, Africa, like suddenly they're all doing these stories about Ghana and this whole year of return campaign of the diaspora coming. I think that that is what happened is that the preparation for the number of people, it was unexpected how many came. So then as a result, when you have too many people coming, you're not ready for what you need to do to prepare them for their arrival. So beyond the Return, which was launched after for 2020, was supposed to be the follow up to help guide people in their return. So beyond the Return was announced at the end of December 2019 that it would be now addressing issues like investing in Ghana, helping the diaspora with moving to Ghana, those kinds of things. Was supposed to be a collaborative effort with beyond the Return and then the Diaspora Affairs Office. And it was supposed to be the follow up, but then Covid came and kind of made the momentum decline a bit. But then when the airports opened, it came back up. But I think communication is really important with telling people what to expect when they come to Ghana. And I think everybody was hopeful. And what happens is when There's a lot of hope. Sometimes you miss out on some of the realities of what's being shared with what people should know. And that's what I try to do on my personal social media. Even when I was working there, I would try my best to share other information. I left that Office last year. October 2014 is when I had. I'm sorry, 2024 is when I had resigned and I continued sharing stories about Ghana on my own platform. I try my best to share both positive and negative to people so they understand Ghana, which I did in my book. Your essential guide on moving to Ghana was to address the positives and negatives of moving to Ghana so people have an understanding.

B (19:19)

Let me stop you here for a minute. So if it's your first time watching Connected Minds or you have been here before but still have not subscribed, do us a favor because majority of the people that watch our videos have not subscribed. This doesn't help us grow beyond what we expect. So help us by hitting the subscribe button. Thank you. Now let's get back to the conversation. Ivy, for someone who's been advocating for Africans to move back, move back to Africa, what's your truth about the two agenda?

A (19:53)

My truth? Yes, about the agenda of moving back to Africa. My truth is you have to be ready. You have to be prepared. You can't just come on emotion, which I have said in my one of my videos before, is one of the top reasons why people end up moving here and then they leave within a couple of years is they moved on emotion. Only now I know we as human beings, we are emotional and we feel these connections and it's easy for us to make decisions like that. We do it in relationships. People make decisions based on emotion and, you know, people moving somewhere. It also happens too, when it comes to Africa and Ghana specifically, people get this emotional bond, especially people who come from the diaspora, the historical diaspora, which is the term that I've heard the Diaspora Africa Forum use. The Diaspora Africa Forum is the only embassy for the diaspora and they've been recognized by the African Union and they are based in Ghana. They're located behind the Du Bois Center. And I know that they have spoken about the historic diaspora being people who are of African descent who were taken away through the transatlantic slave trade. Whereas you have the African diaspora who have actual connection to the continent through birth or through parental lineage, grandparent lineage. So the experience is different for both. That's what I see. That's my observation. The diaspora who were taken in the transatlantic slave trade are the ones that tend to have more of the emotional decision making when they come because of what has happened. The disconnect through centuries, and always having that feeling of not knowing where you're from and wanting to connect with a home, which would be Africa, like, because that's where the DNA is coming from. And to know that I can go to Africa and I can be connected with my people and not worry about the experiences that you have as a black person living in a society where white people are controlling it, where you have the. The systems that are designed that hold people back. People of color, black people and other races face challenges because of the systematic racism that exists. And the desire is, I want to go back to Africa because Africa is where I'm not going to experience those things. So the pressures that you feel through systems that are built on the foundation of racism can be so painful. And that you want to go somewhere that you feel like you're going to be home, you're going to be with your people, people who look like you, you know that you're not going to turn around and someone says, I don't like you because you're black, because everyone else is black. So you have this emotional thing that you want to go back to Africa. And plus, many of them talk about feeling the spiritual connection when you land. Some people kiss the ground. People have gone. When they go to the. The site where the, The.

B (22:52)

The Door of no Return.

A (22:54)

Yeah, go to the Door of no Return. You go to the Cape coast, to the, the dungeons there, to Elmina, to the dungeons there. People go and they talk about feeling the spirits of the ancestors in there. People feel it. You know, when you go to Asen Manso to the. The Slave river, which was where the last bath happened of the people who were captured and enslaved. And they were bathed there for the last time before they were taken to Cape coast and Elmina to be shipped off. People have talked about feeling the spirits there in the water. One Ghanaian camera guy that I work with, when he was in the water filming some diasporans who came and he was standing there filming because people go and they want to film their experience. He said he didn't get it at first, but that particular day he said he felt like there was somebody grabbing his leg in the water. And he was like. He felt like that was a spirit that he felt grabbing his leg in the water. He was like, I never thought anything of it until that day. And I'm standing there filming. And he felt. And he looked and he's like, there's nobody there, but he feels like somebody's holding his leg. And so many have that spiritual feeling when they come. And when they get that spiritual connection, they feel, this is the land I need to be in. And so you're not thinking about the logical side of how will I make money when I'm here? How will I build a life when I'm here? How will I take care of my children when I'm here? Those thought processes don't come in when you're thinking about the emotion. Just like when you're in a relationship, a woman's in a relationship, she's like, oh, I love him, he's so wonderful, he's so good looking. He does this, he does that. And then they ignore some of the bad things about this person, of what they do and how they treat them because they're looking at that, oh, he makes me feel good. Oh, he makes me this, he makes me that. But yet there's some negative side that supersedes that emotional thing. So sometimes we don't look at the logic. So if you're coming to Ghana, I always say, yeah, there's going to be some emotion in it, but don't let the emotion only be the reason. You come look at the logical side and ask those questions of, okay, so if I go, what business can I do? What job can I get? And I think some people go into business not because they want to be business people, but because they recognize after they're here, Ghana is not a place to come and look for a job. I get people sending me messages on social media that say, can I get a job in Ghana? You can come and get a job, but most of the jobs, like 90% of the jobs, you are not going to be paid the same as you were being paid in America, in Canada, the uk. Like, if you come here to Ghana and you're going to go and work at an office where, you know, maybe you're the secretary or you're, you know, you have an admin job, you're not going to be paid the same as you were being paid over there. You're not. That's the reality. And I think a lot of people don't realize that. They think they're going to come and get the same salary that they were getting back home. But the only way, and I always tell people the only way you're going to get a job that's paying similar or close is if you are recruited and you have a high level position. Because I know People who come here, they end up getting a job as a country manager. If you're a country manager for a big corporation like Ogilvy or Nestle or something, if you're a high level person that they've recruited, your salary will likely be in your foreign currency because they've recruited you and you have a negotiating power. If you are sitting there in New York and a company in Ghana has reached out to you on LinkedIn, they want you to come be a country manager or manager of West Africa. You have negotiating power because they've come to you while you are sitting in your home country and you can tell them, well, I need to be paid in my foreign currency, you need to get me a place to live, you need to get me a car. And I know people who that's happened with. They've been recruited, the company pays them to move. The company has paid their rent for a couple of years and also provided a car for them and then they're able to live a comfortable life in Ghana because they've got that opportunity. But if you just come to Ghana, land your bags and now you're sending CVs places. Good luck. Good luck. You're going to come and get a job that's like paying you between 2,000 to, I don't know, 6,000 cities a month.

B (27:18)

What was your own experience looking for a job when you first came in?

A (27:22)

So mine is a bit unique situation because when I came in 2011, I wasn't looking for a job, I came as a getaway. And then I got offered a job and it showed the power of networking. Both jobs that I got showed the power of networking, which is why I always stress to people the importance of not being afraid to go places and meet people. So I was working at SOS College. I was in charge of the Creating Writing club, the Writers Center, Writers Corner Club after school. And I got that because I was at, I was at a birthday party and I was talking about what I do. Someone asked what I do and I spoke about the fact that I was writing. I wrote a fashion column in Canada and I did public speaking. I did a lot of writing in general and had an article published in a newspaper there. And so this man overheard me talking and then he invited me to his office and it turned out that he was the principal of the school. He invited me there to have a discussion and then I got offered the job. So I wasn't officially a teacher of certain classes, but I was teaching students after school in this creative writing club using my Experience as a writer and as a speaker. I was able to impart on them some of the knowledge and understanding of things for writing, which was really a great experience because I got to teach these young people about writing. And some of them thought being a writer is. Because my first question when I started, the first day was I asked them, what is. What do you think of when you think of a writer? And they all said, writing books and writing poetry. And I said, is that all? And they were like, yes, that's all. I'm like, are you sure that's all? Yes, that's all. And I was like, that Calipo juice box you're drinking. Someone is a technical writer. Their job was to write. What's on that box? The billboards you see when you drive through town. Somebody's job is a copywriter. They wrote that text that's on that billboard. When you watch movies, the things the actors are saying. Someone is a scriptwriter. They wrote those scripts watching the news. Somebody is a scriptwriter and wrote the script for the news people, if that news person is not a scriptwriter themself, everything you see, most things, somebody has written it. And they were like, wow. So I took them on field trips. I took them to a TV station to meet a TV program director to learn about how you write script in news and other productions. And they were fascinated because we went to the studio. They were like, the studio is smaller than we thought. When we watch it on tv, it looks so big. And I took them to book readings to meet authors. So I wanted to expand their mind. So that's what I was doing with that job. The pay wasn't what I would have wanted, but I also wasn't looking for a job at the time. I was like, okay, I'm here. Might as well do it. It's an experience.

B (30:09)

You think that happens a lot with people. They come in, they're not looking for jobs, and then they spend all their money, and then now they either have to look for a job or go back.

A (30:19)

That's possible. Yes.

B (30:20)

Yeah.

A (30:20)

Yeah, that's possible. I also think. I also think people don't really know what the country has to offer when it comes to work and careers and stuff, because they haven't taken the time to research, and they're just coming. People come in December, fall in love with Ghana, extend their stay, and some of them don't go back. They just extend their stay. Extend their stay. Extend their stay. Because they fell in love with Ghana. They fell in love with December in Ghana, then they Stay. And then the realities of Ghana kick in. Because it's not like December all year long. Yes. Ghanaians love to party. Ghanaians love to socialize. That happens all year. Yes, but not at the intense level. It does in December. Once December is over and we get after the first week of January, second week, and it kind of quiets down a bit, that's when the reality of being in Ghana sets in. And how are you going to make your money? That's, that's, that's when it sets in.

B (31:14)

Awesome. Did you know that you can get this podcast on Apple and Spotify? So just grab your phone and go on podcast on Apple or go to Spotify and type Connected mindspodcast and you can listen to our podcast when you're at a gym, when you're driving to work. Make us the number one again. Ivy.

A (31:40)

Yes.

B (31:43)

I've really picked up something here with the experience working with, you know, the projects on the, and all that work. You did that. I think we fed the emotional cravings of the American diaspora, but we did not give them structures, do we?

A (32:05)

Mm. So I know that the, the government was trying to pass a bill that would actually help the diaspora with being able to, to, to move here and live here, but it didn't pass. It was called the Homeland Return act, that was actually submitted into Parliament and to this day it's not passed. So it's unfortunate that didn't pass before the last government went out because now it's like starting, in my opinion, now it's like starting over again. Because the whole point of the Homeland Return act, when beyond the return started, was to help facilitate the diaspora in their move to Ghana, residency status and that kind of stuff. So I really think that there are quite a number of people who've tried, who are trying to support the diaspora and helping them with their transitions and stuff, but sometimes there's a lot of things missing. I think people also have this misconception that Africa will be easy, that Africa will be cheap. And then they get the wake up call that Ghana is not as cheap as people think it is. Ghana is quite expensive for being in a developing country, so it makes it a bit challenging. And I think one of the biggest headaches in Ghana for people is when they realize that they have to pay rent in a huge chunk upfront. I think if not for that, it would be easier for people to do their transitions because living abroad, I know in Canada and the U.S. you only pay two months rent up front before you move in somewhere, which they call first and last, rent. And so you pay that two month deposit and then you move in and you might have a small security deposit you pay in case of damages to the property, but that's it. But here it's like people come and then they find out, whoa, this landlord wants me to pay a whole year up front, two years, some of them even asking for three years up front. And it's not even legal. That's the sad part is it's not even legal. It's supposed to be only six months. According to the law in Ghana there is a rent act that is, I think it's from the 80s and hasn't changed and it's supposed to be only six months up front. That's the law. So every day people are breaking the law. Every day people are breaking the law asking for a year rent up front. So I think as long as it's not enforced, it just keeps happening. And so that's the big thing that really affects people because, you know, you come and let's say you have, let's say you have $30,000 in savings and you feel that you can move to Ghana and start your life with $30,000. If it wasn't for rent, you could, because almost all that money is going to go to your rent now. Especially because a lot of the diaspora want to live in a way that is comfortable, like how their life was before they came. The average person coming from the west or coming from Europe is not going to want to live in a chamber and hall small place that's 600 cities a month. They're not going to want to live in those environments. They want to live in some of the apartments and houses that are in places like Lebonne, East Lagon, Cantonments Ridge, you know, and then if they can't afford those ones because they're more expensive, they might go out and go to like Oyarrafa, maybe go to Abri. But some of them are discovering that it's expensive and then they move even further. There's people who are in Cape Coast, Elmina, because it's less expensive to live there. I knew somebody who was living here and then ended up moving, moving to Cape coast because it was more affordable to live there. And it's helpful if you have a business that you can do anywhere because that's the other thing is people tend to stay here because whatever business they're doing is more successful if they stay in Accra. But Accra is also expensive. And you're going to say something. Yeah.

B (36:09)

Abby, do you Think people actually move to Ghana to stay or just to experience Ghana?

A (36:17)

I think there's people who move here because they want to stay. There are some people who move here because they want to stay, especially when the reasoning for moving is part of the Back to Africa movement. Part of the I don't want to be in an environment where I'm being suppressed because I'm a black person. So those people, when they come, they actually move to stay because they're like, I want to wash my hands of being in the environment where everywhere I go, I'm a black person. I just want to be a person. Those are the ones that when they come, they want to stay and they really try to make it work because they want to be in an environment where they're not the minority. I think the ones that come off of the emotion of December in Ghana and decide to stay are the ones that are most likely to go back.

B (37:06)

Why are people going back?

A (37:08)

People go back because they didn't plan well when they came or because they didn't understand the environment when they came, or because they realize they just want life to just be simple with the structures. So when I say that, what I mean is there's an element of you having to be like, this is how it is. I'm not saying that you're accepting mediocrity, but there's an element of you having to accept, suspend the desire for it to be the same way as it was where you came from. So, for example, if I want to start a business in Canada, I register online, make my payment online, I'll get my certificate for the business, and that's done within minutes. I went to register a business and I had to go to the office, physically fill out the form, make my payment, sit there, go from one room to the next. Oh, please have a seat. Go here, please have a seat, go there. Then finally they're like, okay, they gave me my receipt. You have to come back and collect your papers at another day. Then you have to come back now you have to be in a queue all over again. Oh, please have a seat there. So it's like this whole thing of people be like, why do I have. Why this? Why that? Can I. Can't you just get it done? So those frustrations, some people don't have the patience for it. And it's like, I don't have the patience for this. Why should I have to deal with this all the time? Let me just go back to where I came from and deal with the being suppressed. It's like a trade off. You're being suppressed. But you can live a life where you can get things done when you need them to get done. The roads are also an issue. Bad roads can make life very uncomfortable, especially some of these neighborhoods where the houses are beautiful, but then the road is bad getting there. And for some people, it's not worth it. They're like, why am I gonna destroy my car every time I'm going home? Because maintenance on cars is really expensive here. People are always spending money to maintain their cars because of bad roads, bad potholes somewhere, you know, not saying there's not potholes over there, because there are. But it's not at the level that you experience here that people will be like, why am I dealing with this? That every day I go home, I feel like I need a massage. When I go to work, I feel like I need a massage because of the journey to get there. Those are some of the things that seem simple, but it's enough that it's a discomfort for some people that they don't want to deal with it. Also, culture. Culture is something that people don't take into consideration. When you move somewhere, anywhere you move, if there's a different culture, it's difficult to get used to sometimes. And there's one guy I met from Jamaica in 2019 who was like, he's tired of Ghanaians. And the please, please. Everything is please, yes, please, no please, this, please that. I'm tired of the please, please, please, please, please. He said it just sounded so annoying to him. You see your face? He said it was annoying to him because the use of the word please is so much in Ghana. It really is. And I said to him, I said, you know, it is actually a direct translation from the language because a Ghanaian would be. So it's a direct translation to say, please, yes, please, no, please, I want to go here, Please, I want to go there. We don't say that in English. The English language, you don't say please, yes, I want what, please this, please that, please. It's overused here. So that for that guy, he found it annoying enough that he's like, he couldn't stay here because he can't stand hearing that all the time. But for a Ghanaian, it's like, well, that's being polite. So it's like everybody has their little thing. And then the other thing is not having access to debt. Credit is a big one for people. Not having access to credit is a big, big one for people. Because here everything is cash up front. If you want to fix your house, your windows need to be replaced. You're going to have to come up with, what, 20,000 cities all up front to pay whatever it is to repair or fix something. Whereas over there, you can do a whole house renovation on credit. You get a loan and you make your monthly installments until it's paid. So it makes life easier to do something immediately because you can make payments in installments. Things are done on credit abroad, and here, everything cash up front. And if you want credit here, you have to go to the bank, you have to prove you have assets. They want collateral, and then they want you to pay 30% interest here. So almost nobody takes loans here because it's too expensive. And most people don't have all that collateral that they're asking for over there. You build a good credit history. You can get a loan anywhere. You can get a loan, you can get a mortgage. That's how people are able to get. They get multiple houses fast and they're able to flip it, make a profit. So it's easier to start a business there too. Even if you. If you have a good credit, you can go and get a loan, a business loan. You can get someone to get $20,000 to start their business. As long as you've had a business plan, you're able to prove what you want to do and you have a good credit history. You. You show that you'll be able to make the monthly payments, you get a loan and you start your business. But here. Good luck. Good luck. So there's people who. It's difficult to deal with that stuff. And also, Ghanaians are not always honest. I'm saying something right now that may get some Ghanaians upset, but Ghanaians are not always honest. And I don't know if Ghanaians even realize it. That is something that makes people frustrated. There was an African American who said to me that she's never lived in a country where people lie so much, and she's lived in multiple countries through her life. And she said Ghanaians are the worst liars. That's what she said. And there is a little bit of truth to that as far as what I'm saying. Ghanaians are not always 100% honest. And I don't know if it's because of fear, because sometimes I think, is it the school system? I didn't go to school in Ghana, so I can't say if this is a fact. Maybe you can correct me if it's not correct. But my observation is I feel like the system of Being in boarding school, and maybe the headmaster gets you in trouble. And because you don't want to get in trouble, you may be a little bit deceitful with how you tell a story because you're afraid of getting in trouble. Just like how a child might not tell the truth to their parents because they're afraid of getting in trouble. And I feel like maybe that carries through adulthood, that the simple things, people don't tell the truth. And when you don't, it actually escalates into something else. I'll give you an example. Yesterday I was at a hotel, and in the morning I asked the waitress, do you have brewed coffee or is it Nescafe? The sachets of Nescafe? And she looked at me and it was like she didn't know what to say. And I said, do you have brewed coffee? Yes or no? And she said, yes. And I said, okay, do you know what brewed coffee is? Because I've experienced so many times people say yes in Ghana and they're not being fully truthful. So I said, do you know what brewed coffee is? And she just looked at me like, now she's shocked because I'm asking her a direct question. And then she was like, yes. I said, okay, what is brewed coffee? And I'm asking this because I want to make sure I get what I want to order so I can make a decision as to what I want to order. What is brewed coffee? Now she's just looking at me and doesn't know what to say. Then I said, do you know what brewed coffee is? Then she was silent for a bit. Then she said, okay, no, I don't know what it is. So then I said, why did. Why would you say yes? And you didn't really know what it was? Then she was like, I don't know. And I was like, you know, it's okay to tell someone you don't know something. Then she just stood there and looked at me and I said, listen. I said, has this happened to you before where you say yes to someone who's ordering food from the menu and you say yes to them for something they're asking? Then you go back, when the food is ready, you bring it to them, and now they're upset with you because it's not what they wanted? Have you experienced that? And she said, yes, I have, many times. And I said, do you know why that happens? Because you're telling them yes when the fact is you don't know what they want. Or maybe the Answer is no, and you're not being completely honest. But if you were completely honest, that person would know what decision to take when they know the truth of the matter. And Ghanaians do this a lot. I see it a lot. And I don't know if it's because they're afraid to tell the truth, but I'll ask something even like, do you have this dress in blue? Oh, yes, we do. Then they'll go back and they'll bring something, and you're like, but that's not a blue dress. Oh, but this one is also nice. But I asked you for a blue one and now you're bringing me a green one. This is not blue. Why not just be honest and say, no, we don't have blue, but we have a green one that I think you might like and then bring that one. So some diaspora hate it so much, they're like, I don't want to be in an environment where I'm always trying to figure out what the truth is. I'm always trying to figure out what is it that I'm going to get. I'm always trying to figure out because the average Ghanaian, if something comes and it's not what they ordered, they're just like, oh, it's okay, I'll eat it anyway. It's always, it's okay. Oh, I don't want to worry about it. Let me just eat it. Whereas someone from abroad will be like, no, I'm not eating this. This is not what I asked for. This is not what I asked for. And so they feel like they're always under this stress because people are not always 100% transparent with stuff. And I. And I wonder if it's because they're afraid to tell you what the reality is. And it's not that they're intentionally trying to be deceitful or anything. I feel like sometimes it's just they don't realize, just tell the people the fact of what it is. And that's something that I've heard diasporans say that they don't like how they can't tell what the truth is. And that Ghanaians will say they can do something and then they know they can't. Like, you'll go to a tailor, which I know Ghanaians have experienced. You go to a tailor or a seamstress. Will you be able to finish this for me on Friday? Because I need to pick it up on Friday. Will you be able to finish? Yes, I can finish. But they know they can't. But they're telling you yes. Then you come on Friday and it's not done. You're like, you told me you could do it on Friday, but why isn't it done? Oh, madame. Oh, just some. Just let me finish. Just some small. But I'm supposed to pick it up and leave. Not now. You're still at the machine, still sewing it. So that's an example of people are not 100% transparent as to when they can finish something all the time.

B (48:25)

Even when we are going, we are saying, we are coming.

A (48:27)

Yes, I'm on the way. But now you're just now getting in the shower, Right, I'm on the way. So right now. And lateness is also another one people don't like.

B (48:36)

I can right now say if I'm going, and you ask me, derek, where you going? I'll say, mayba, I'm coming.

A (48:41)

Yes, right. Yes, yes, it's lovely.

B (48:44)

Look, I think this is what it is. I think we have not accepted the word no yet. We don't know how to say no.

A (48:52)

Okay.

B (48:53)

You know, we always find a way to manage the situation rather than saying no. Saying no to people is really difficult. Have you been in a deal with somebody where you've put something to them and you're just waiting for them to even give you a response, and because you know the answer is going to be no, you don't get response back? Yeah, it happens. I mean, I've dealt with some people with real high cash, and they still struggle to say no.

A (49:15)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand. I mean, I had somebody who asked me to do something and I said no. And then it was like the person was trying to convince me to say yes. Yeah. And I said, I've already given you my answer. And then she was like, wow, you actually said no? And I was like, yes, because I know that I don't have the time to do what you're asking me to do. And she's like, I appreciate the honesty, because most people wouldn't. Wouldn't have said that. And I'm like, I'm not gonna add it, because I've made the mistake before of taking on something that I wish I didn't. Because now. Now it's like it's taking my time. And what happens is when you say yes to something, then the whole time you're just like, oh, I shouldn't have done this. I shouldn't have done that. Now it's extra work. I don't want to do this.

B (50:04)

Let me stop you here for a minute. So if it's your first Time watching Connected Minds or you have been here before but still have not subscribed. Do us a favor because majority of the people that watch our videos have not subscribed. This doesn't help us grow beyond what we expect. So help us by hitting the subscribe button. Thank you. Now let's get back to the conversation. Ivy, what should the Ghanaian government do to help our friends in the diaspora come back and stay with us?

A (50:39)

What should the government do?

B (50:40)

Yeah.

A (50:41)

Oh my goodness. I think having policies in place will help, but there's a fine balance because you get Ghanaians who are upset saying that people are coddling the diaspora and not doing things for Ghanaians. Because I've heard Ghanaians say that. I've heard Ghanaians say, well, we Ghanaians, we ourselves are unemployed and we ourselves are trying to do this. Why isn't our government helping us? And they're focused on the diaspora. I've heard Ghanaians say stuff like that. So I think I know the Diaspora affairs office right now is really trying to do things to support the diaspora as far as with residency and stuff like that. I think that's the key is. I think the messaging is what's key and people understanding because Ghana is still a developing country and there's only so much that a developing country can actually do when they are also trying to develop themselves, if that makes sense.

B (51:47)

Do you think we are ready to call them back?

A (51:50)

I think I think Ghana has the capacity to call people back. But I think that sometimes things are not implemented the way that they should. That's what I think. So Covid time. I'm going to go back to that time. Covid time is when I saw that Ghana really has the capability of complete greatness. And I say that because watching how Ghana handled Covid in the beginning showed me that we have the ability to mobilize and do what needs to be done for the greater good of the country. I remember when the whole world was falling apart in it was like March 2020 and you saw people dying left, right and center in other countries that were supposed to be first world, so called first world developed nations. And when Ghana decided to close its borders because a lot of countries were doing that, there were three planes on the way to the country. And when those three planes landed, immediately those people were put into quarantine to prevent possible spread of the virus into the country. While they tested some of those people in quarantine and discovered that some of those people in fact came in with it, they made the decision to backtrack and check people from the previous four weeks who arrived in Ghana. And they actually. Because those days you had to fill out those cards. And so they actually had records of where people were staying because you had to put where you were going to be staying. And they actually had a task force of people whose jobs were to go find these people who came to Ghana within the four weeks prior so they can test them. So they can check to see these people coming with the country with COVID And I know somebody who told me that some people came to her gate looking for her because she was one of the people who came in those four weeks prior to check them, to check, to see. And somebody told me. I didn't get a factual confirmation from someone who works for the phone companies, but somebody told me that the phone companies actually were releasing when people's phones were pinging on certain towers to find them when they couldn't find them by going door to door. I was like, wow, Ghana's doing that. They're actually like going full on to find people to test them, to see that they have the virus. And I was like, wow. So we have the capacity to do some of the things that we need to do. And then just seeing how everybody mobilize with the hand washing stations everywhere. Cause that was a major thing. Washing your hands was major for any illness. Not just that, but any illness. Just seeing how people really mobilized and people really did certain things. And we only had our lockdown for 21 days.

B (54:58)

Well, I think we did fantastic during those times. You say that.

A (55:03)

Yes.

B (55:03)

But we ended up paying 1% Covid tax.

A (55:06)

Yes. I'm not. Yeah, that to me is ridiculous. So I'm not talking about the tax. I'm talking about the. The behavior. And the mobilization in the beginning showed me that this country does have the capacity to mobilize and do the things we need to do. And that kind of mobilization, in my opinion, could be applied in so many other areas, like mobilizing to fix the roads, mobilizing to, you know, improve some of the school buildings. But that's what I mean. Like the mobilization for the things that can help our country move forward, I think is possible, but it's not always being done. As far as the government in the diaspora, I think that if we can get that homeland return act passed, that can also help with the diaspora's transition into the country.

B (55:51)

Awesome. So there's two research papers that I went through while preparing for this interview.

A (55:59)

Okay.

B (55:59)

And one of them is by Aronati and the other one is by Mohammed Abdullah Eta now these two people were comparing how, you know, people returning back home, what is the major difficulties that they face. And their top was reintegration difficulties. So my question is how, based on your experience, the relationship between the local Ghanaians and the diaspora, how is it.

A (56:27)

Oh, how was the relationship between them? I think that it depends on your social circles. I think that, I think that when you are a Ghanaian who is more educated, there's a tendency or more exposed, there's a tendency for you to get along with the diaspora more than those who are not. And what I mean is somebody who's a Ghanaian born and raised and has been exposed, whether it's through knowledge of books and stuff or through actually traveling out of the country. And traveling out of the country doesn't always mean going to America or something. It could be you went to South Africa or you went to Kenya, it could be you went somewhere else in Africa. That they have a tendency to have more open mindedness. And so the conversations can be a little bit more engaging. One of the challenges that local Ghanaians have with some of the diaspora is some people have accused them of becoming the new colonizers or the ones who sometimes mistreat them the same way they would have been mistreated abroad. I've heard some Ghanaians say that, some of them saying that they talk to them like they're beneath them. Some Ghanaians have said that they talk to them like, you know, especially when they're in positions like house help or drivers or something, that some of the diaspora have not talked in a favorable way to some of them. That's what I've heard some people say. And there are some Ghanaians that feel that things like rent and cost of living have gone up because of the diaspora coming in. You know, one example is a hair salon. So sometimes the hair salon with braiding, you know, braiding was so inexpensive. Now in some places it's gone up a bit. And some people blame, some Ghanaians blame the diaspora because the diaspora will just pay be like, oh wow, this is so cheap because they're comparing it to what they would pay back home. So now you have these people raising their prices because they realize there's, there's some people who will pay. And then it affects the local person who's like, well that's their month's salary. They're not going to pay their whole month's salary just to do their hair. So that's one example of some of the Ghanaians saying that they feel like prices have gone up because of the diaspora, things like rent, land and some of the, you know, some of the simple basics that some of them feel has driven the cost off because of the diaspora. But then the diaspora is like, once you're living here for a while, when you stay, you're not just on holiday. Then you realize sometimes, wait, this is too much. I shouldn't be paying this much for this. But when you're just on holiday, they just come and they're spending, spending, spending, because they're just on holiday. Then they go back to where they came from and they just replenish the money that they spent when they were here. But once you're living here, you realize that it can get quite costly when the prices of things are going up.

B (59:26)

Ivy's Top Move Back Guide Take me through it. I'm moving back. What should I do? What should I not do?

A (59:35)

You should plan well with what. So when you plan well, ask yourself, how much money do I need every month to live comfortably? And the way to do that is by actually coming and visiting, because there's a lot of people, you know, I'm not going to tell you, don't do it if that's what you really want to do. But I always say visit the country first before making the decision to move, Come to Ghana, spend at least if you can afford to, try to spend three months here if you can afford to. But some people can't afford it. They can only stay for maybe a month. And when you come, don't come in December to try to decide if you want to live here. So when you come, make it that you're making a point to research. How much is it going to cost to get land? How much is it going to cost to get a property? If you want to buy one that's already built? How much is it going to be to rent an apartment? If that's what you want, Figure out which part of the city, if you're staying in Accra, that you would feel comfortable to live, go and visit these other areas. If you want to be outside of the city, make a plan to where you're going to visit to decide, can I live there? Because if you come blind and you don't know, that's when you're going to really fail and feel like, what did I do? So when you're planning, come visit, figure out how much you want to spend to feel comfortable living here. How do you want to have your kids educated? If you have children, visit the schools and see how much do the schools cost? How Much you're gonna have to spend for tuition for these kids if you're sending them to private school. Because a lot of diaspora don't want to put their kids in the government school, they want to put them in private school because a lot of diaspora want their kids to be living in Ghana or an African country, but they also want them to have an education that also touches on some of the international things so that when their child becomes of age, the child can decide what will I stay in Ghana to do university or will I leave? They want them to have the option and they usually do that by sending them to international schools for which you will pay international fees in dollars or in pounds or in euros depending on the school that you choose. So calculate how many kids do you have? How much will you have to spend on school? Will you have to get a driver to take your kids to school because you might be working one place the kids school is somewhere else. And also decide do you want to live close to the school they're going to or will you live far? Because if you live far then you're going to have to have a driver to drive them to school in the morning. Traffic is bad in Ghana. Calculate how much time you think you're going to need to take the kids to school and then go to wherever it is you're going to do work or you do your business. Factor all that in when you're planning. Otherwise you will be frustrated. If you didn't know that before you came. What is the ratio of kids in that school who may be foreign and local? That might be something you're interested in. Do you want the kids to learn the local language? Find a school that's going to have maybe teaching them the local language or activities. Understand that in Ghana there's not a lot of kids activities like there are in America, Canada, wherever. There's a lot of kids activities here you have to be intentional with finding them some of these kids activities and some of them cost more like taking them to that. There's a place called Bliss. I don't know if you've gone there with your kids, but it's expensive for the average Ghanaian paying per adult per child, then they want food to eat and snacks and everything there. And think about it, do you want to spend that kind of money every time your kid wants an outing? We don't have a lot of parks the way we do in in other countries. Canada we have lots of parks. You can just go sit on a bench. The kids are playing out. Yes. So Think about the lifestyle change that you'll have to go through when you come. So all of these are things that you should write down. When you're planning to come to Ghana. Do you want to have your own car? Do you want to buy your car abroad and ship it to Ghana? Look at what is the shipping cost to bring your car to Ghana. What is the cost of the ports that you might. And these are all things you should do when you come and you stay for one to three months to understand the system because that will help you in your planning. When you just come, boom, land your bags. I've moved to Ghana and you've not planned. It becomes challenging for you, especially when you have kids. You really need to plan. The other thing is look out for your government embassy. If you're coming from the U.S. the U.S. embassy Canada, the Canadian embassy. Does your embassy have an office in in this country? You may want to go visit, you may want to talk to somebody there to get some ideas of how you would adjust to life here. When you move here, does your country still require you to pay taxes? Some countries require you to still pay taxes back home. Whatever you earn here, they may still want you to pay taxes in your in your home country. When you're here, some countries don't mind, you don't have to pay taxes. Look into that. Can you afford to be living here, making money here, paying taxes here and paying taxes in your home country? Those are things you should also look at. These are all things that you should be considering also. Do you have pre existing health conditions? If you have pre existing health conditions, find out the medications you take. Can you get them in Ghana regularly so that you don't miss any of your medication? Are there doctors that specialize in whatever illness it is that you have that you can have here? That would be your person that you go to when you have any ailments that you need to be taken care of. Find identify the hospitals that you want to be close to. If you have a pre existing condition that is serious, you may want to live not far from the hospital because the ambulance system here sucks. You can call 911 in Canada and the US and get an ambulance in a reasonable time that will show up at your door with paramedics who are there to treat you and can save you. In Ghana you call the 191emergency. I have actually spent time at the emergency services when I was hosting the TV show Maternal Health channel TV series. We went to the emergency see how is their call center and there Were these women, hey, we take calls and we can't even get an ambulance because we don't have enough ambulances. So they'll get a call and they'll be like, oh, there's no ambulances. Pick a taxi to go to the hospital. And that's why you see people getting in taxis, getting in private cars to go to the hospital, because we don't have enough ambulances for emergency services. And people don't even move for the ambulance. They'll move for a politician in an SUV or before, they'll move for an ambulance trying to get through traffic. So understand that the emergency services here are also not going to be the same as they are over there. So these are all things you need to plan before you decide if you're going to move to Ghana, you know, do you want to be off grid or do you want to be in the city? You know, and if that's the case, you should go and see what is it like off grid. Can you handle going somewhere where you might have to bath in a bucket? Do you know that sometimes even in the richest neighborhoods, the power goes out? Will you have the money to buy a generator, fuel it with the petrol you need to keep it going to make sure that you maintain the comforts that you may want? Do you have the money to install solar power? If you want solar power as an option? These are all things that people should be planning and thinking about before they make a move, because it's not a get on the plane move and then jump in and everything's the same. It's not. So you have to prepare yourself. And I think the people who have a tendency to adjust easier in Ghana, not easy, but easier, are usually Ghanaians or another Africans because they have a family connection and an understanding of how the system is. Because family members, even when they lived abroad, will be like, hey, back home, you know, this and this and this. A back home, you know, this and this. So you kind of have an idea, even if you've never lived here. And then the Caribbeans, a lot of the Caribbeans, like Jamaicans, I meet people from Trinidad, they're like, oh, we have the same problem back home. Oh, yeah, we have the same thing, the same issue. Right? Where we came from in the islands, this kind of stuff happens too. So they have. So they give more grace to some of the challenges because they've experienced it where they came from. Whereas somebody who comes from a society like the US or Canada, you know, they have never experienced something and they're just like, what the heck is this? You know, like Canada. We have endless water in Canada. People leave their tap on, they're brushing their teeth, the water's just running, running, running, running. People aren't thinking about the fact the water's just running like the water's, like, endless. Canada is one of the countries that has the most fresh water. So people don't think about it consciously. The way you might hear your pipe gets turned off. Now you have half a bucket of water, and you have to learn how to bathe with half a bucket of water somewhere. So these are all things you have to think about. Can you adjust to some of these challenges that you will face here? So with the planning, that's all part of it is knowing that this is all possible of what you might face. Having extra money in the bank every month, an extra 5,000 cities every month in your bank account. In case your car has an issue because of the way the roads are. You could be driving, and all of a sudden you hear something underneath your car. Oh, my goodness, what's that? Then you find out something has, like, shifted because of the way you went over a bump or something. Some of the speed bumps are made too high, and then they just click on something underneath your car. And now you got to go get it fixed. You have to think about the culture, that there's cultural differences that you may need to learn and understand. And especially if you come here and you find a mate, because people come, they're looking for a spouse, they meet someone, and sometimes the challenges that they have is cultural differences. Cultural communication can be different. So little things like you might walk in a room and there's elders and stuff. And Ghanaians know you go from right to left and you shake everybody's hand to greet them. Then you sit down like, I knew that because I'm Ghanaian, even though I'm Canadian. It's something that we just knew as being a Ghanaian that your parents told you when you go to Ghanaian, because they have Ghanaian clubs and associations. And you go and you know you're supposed to shake from right to left if you come in and you're from, you know, a culture where you never. That never was the case. You just walk in and you come and you sit down. All the elders, hey, this person didn't even come and talk to me. Oh, you didn't greet me. You didn't greet. You didn't greet. I have heard Ghanaians have long conversations about how someone didn't greet them and how offended they are that someone didn't Greet them. So these little cultural nuances could be detrimental to someone if you don't know how people do things. And you kind of have to learn about how things are done so that you don't look like you're offending anybody. So there's cultural differences. And even in dating, dating in the US and in Canada, people have open affection and all that, and it's nobody cares. But here, Ghanaians are so a man and a woman could be walking down the street and you don't even know that they're in a relationship because they're not even holding hands. They're not like hugging lovey dovey. There's nothing you can't tell unless they're behind closed doors in their private privacy. So sometimes people from abroad feel like, this person doesn't love me. They're not showing me the affection because they're just so distant and so cold. I want to rub their shoulder. And they're kind of like standoffish when you're in public, not realizing that that's kind of their cultural difference of how they handle themselves in certain situations. So communication with your partner is important so that you know that these, these differences, you know, can be, it can be something that can turn someone off from wanting to be with someone who's from a different culture too. And also Ghanaians want their culture so strongly that if they do decide to marry someone, they want to have the traditional marriage and all that kind of stuff, bringing the families together. And someone might be like, let's just go to city hall and just sign our document and we're married. You know what I mean? So cultural differences are very important in integration as well.

B (71:32)

You've spent a lot of time to grow your YouTube channel.

A (71:36)

Yes.

B (71:37)

To try to help a lot of Africans to discover Africa. How did you do it? Which one helped you the most, motivation or discipline?

A (71:48)

Initially it was motivation, then I'll say discipline was next. Because in the beginning I was just motivated to share because I was also, even though I'm Ghanaian, I did grow up abroad most of my life. So a lot of the stuff was self discovery, discovering. So it motivated me to want to share because I was discovering things as I was going. You know, it's funny now when I see people come and they're discovering new things, I'm like, oh, that was me, like, you know, 14 years ago. But the discipline came in after because once I decided that I wanted to continue with this, I had to be disciplined with how I was doing it, how often I was sharing. And then asking, is this information something that somebody wants to see? Is this relevant? That's where the discipline comes in.

B (72:41)

Ivy, what's the best advice you've ever received?

A (72:45)

Best advice I've ever received.

B (72:47)

Yeah.

A (72:50)

That's an interesting question. No matter what happens, life goes on. That's what my father said.

B (72:58)

Awesome.

A (72:59)

No matter what happens, life goes on.

B (73:02)

Uno, thank you so much.

A (73:03)

Thank you, too.

B (73:04)

I really appreciate this. There's a lot you've shared.

A (73:08)

Really? You know, I wasn't even sure. I felt like I just.

B (73:11)

There's a lot you've shared about people trying to move back. You know, the best way to move back. And I hope people do actually check the description because I'm gonna put some surprises of some of your links in the description and then they can find it. So to my viewers and to my listeners, thank you so much. If you made it to the end, I'd like you to leave a comment down below. So I know that you are one of my champions. My name is Derek Abite and a mouth.