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Konnected Minds Podcast with Derrick Abaitey
Shipped to Ghana, Built in Britain: How Timothy Armoo Sold His Company for Millions Before 30
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- [00:00]
A
Timothy Omu, the founder of Plan Bison, which recently sold for somewhere between 20 and 50 million pounds. Becoming a multi millionaire before you were 27.
- [00:20]
B
I started my first company at 14. I started my second company at 17. Landlords. So people who end up being successful, successful have something called a superiority complex and I think I had grown up with that. It was always to prove to myself that I could do it.
- [00:34]
A
Were you bullied when you were young?
- [00:36]
B
Oh, that's interesting because I actually was cuz I went to a boarding school that was 27 grand A& I remember one day, unfortunately my dad passed away because of two strokes. It was only then that I realized that I was like properly.
- [00:56]
A
If you had not gone back to the uk, do you think you would have been as successful as.
- [01:00]
B
Yes. How? Because here's the thing with business, right? The biggest determinant of your company success is what do you think is the.
- [01:08]
A
Most important skill for entrepreneurs?
- [01:10]
B
I'm going to give you a soft skill and I'm going to give you a hard skill.
- [01:12]
A
Okay, let's go. You're welcome to Connected Minds Podcast. My name is Derek Abayite and thank you so much for tuning in to our podcast and wherever you're listening from, we appreciate you and to our lovely viewers and our regular listeners, if you make it to the end, I'd love to know in the comments. I'm speaking to an entrepreneur who was born in the UK, shipped to Ghana, went back to the UK and became a multi millionaire at 27. He's very popular on social media now. This conversation is really gonna get deep into the aspects of him that probably some of the interviews have not been able to get through. But I really want to understand what Ghana and Africa has contributed to when it comes to its success and what some people in the diaspora, the African community in the diaspora, what sort of principles can they also apply from what he has been able to achieve all these years? You're welcome to my podcast. Timo Amo. How you doing?
- [02:24]
B
Thank you, Derek. I'm good, I'm good. Very impromptu. I don't think people would know the story, but you, you, someone in your team or you managed to find my number message me on WhatsApp. And it just so happened today was the only day that I could actually do something that was not on the program. And here we are.
- [02:42]
A
Yeah, I think they did a fantastic job. Yeah, I mean I was actually, I was driving myself and then, you know, I got the message and I saw a screenshot. So they just said they've Emailed you and you haven't responded, so I should try my luck. So, yeah, the universe is talking.
- [02:59]
B
It is.
- [03:00]
A
You know, we've all responded to it. Thank you so much.
- [03:03]
B
Oh, good. Let's roll.
- [03:05]
A
The first time you came to Ghana, we were trying to get you. It didn't happen and it's happened this time. So we. We kind of prepared before.
- [03:16]
B
Okay.
- [03:16]
A
But now it's even more exciting because you have a book that is coming out that people can pre order so we can talk more about.
- [03:22]
B
Sure.
- [03:22]
A
That as well.
- [03:23]
B
Sure, that's right.
- [03:24]
A
Let's start off. So you got shipped to Ghana.
- [03:30]
B
That sounds crazy. Yeah, sure. Right.
- [03:32]
A
Shipped to Ghana.
- [03:33]
B
I got shipped.
- [03:34]
A
Right. What's the story?
- [03:36]
B
I got shipped to Ghana, as you say, actually, because it was either that or I ended up in care because basically my parents, I was unplanned for is probably the best way to say. Right. It was kind of like an accidental pregnancy. And so basically they were like, look, we love this kid. But in terms of the way that the family setup is, it probably is not going to be very conducive to. To having having a healthy kid. So my grandmother, who actually lived in London, lived in Ghana. She lived in East Lagoon. She was. She actually then came to England and then she said, do you know what? I would. I think we should take this kid back to Ghana. And my parents, you know, God bless them, they decided to also agree with that, which I presume especially for my mom, it was quite hard. In fact, I know it was quite hard for my mom. So every day I'm like very grateful for the fact that they agreed to do that. And my grandmother and I, we lived in east lagoon for 10 years. And so it was out of, I guess, a negative circumstance, but actually I think it was probably top three best things to have happened to me, I think was actually spending my first 10 years in Ghana.
- [05:01]
A
How so?
- [05:02]
B
I think there were so many things that in hindsight, you know, when you're a kid at that age, you have this sense of, oh, I want to go back to my parents, I want to go back to my parents. But then in hindsight, you realize a lot of things. I won. I think growing up in Ghana taught me immense discipline because, you know, going back to England, if you are not too bad in school, like, you don't get hit. Right. In Ghana, I got hit several times. In fact, there's a teacher who I still, when I think of him, I hate him so much. Mr. Igboo is his name. I hate him. I Hate that guy.
- [05:35]
A
Was he a French teacher?
- [05:36]
B
I don't. He was like an airway or gaan teacher. Right. If you are listening, Mr. Ibu, I still don't like you. But he'd hit me a lot, you know, because at school I, you know, I, I talked a lot, I was quite boisterous. But I do think that it taught me this idea of like there are consequences for your actions. And, and then most importantly, and I, and I know you said that the UK is the second of, is the second most popular audience of this podcast and I actually think that a lot of people will be able to empathize with this, which is in those years, because I was born 1994 in those years. I think if I'd grown up in London, especially south London, which is where I went to near like Peckham, Brixton, if I had been there, I think I would have been very easily influenced. Around that period was when like the beef between Peckham, Brixton, Oaken Road was just at an all time high. And I think I would have been easily influenced because I'd have been living with my dad. He was always working and so like there was always this kind of sense of, well, if there isn't someone at home, then what could happen is you end up, you know, on the street. On the street. And man, there were so many people. Because I went back to London when I was 10 and I went there and I did year six there and I remember there were so many people in the primary school I went to, it was called Townsend. I remember there were so many people there who were quite smart, but then they just wanted to do road because from 7 to 10 or like the area they lived, it was just the conventional thing was just to do road. And then I remember just looking at them and just thinking, don't you realize you can do more? Like, don't you realize you can?
- [07:28]
A
But, but that was after you had gone back to the uk. That was, Was it something here that instilled that in you?
- [07:35]
B
As in that in Ghana? Yeah, as in that feeling of, of just being like, wow, I can be more, I can be more. Do you know what it is? I think I always saw London or England as like the promised land. Like I always saw it as, you know, I was born there and then I came here for 10 years and now I'm going back there to like finish the story. And I always found that feeling of wow, I'm so lucky I'm in this place. I should make sure that I make the Most out of it.
- [08:09]
A
Well, how was the situation in Ghana when you came in?
- [08:12]
B
It was great. Like, my grandmother lived in East Lagoon. She said she was the first ever person to live in East Lygon. I. I can see that she knew the. I said she knew she's still alive. She knows all the politicians. Like everyone knows her. Right. But still I felt this sense of like, all the new stuff, the gadgets, the technology, like all the cool stuff was in England. And so when I get to England, I'm going to make sure that I take advantage of that opportunity.
- [08:43]
A
So mentally you didn't really come to stay, right? You're always in Ghana, right? You always felt that you had to go back?
- [08:49]
B
Yeah, yeah. I think my grandma told me this story that at 8 years old, even before my parents decided, you know, now it's time for me to come back. I think she tells me the story of one time I came back from school and I was naughty or something like that. And then she. And then I said something like, well, I'm only here for a short time anyway. So I think like in the back of my mind I just had this. Had this feeling that I was going to go back. I mean, even if we accelerate and we think about my time in London. I lived on like a fourth floor council estate in Oaken Road, right? Like, no lift, it was like smelly drugs, et cetera. And I remember every day I would walk back from school, I would run up the stairs and I would say, like, I don't belong here, I don't belong here. Like, I would almost brainwash myself. And I think it was a similar thing to Ghana, not in a negative way, more like, well, my story develops in England, it doesn't develop here. So I'm just here for like a pit stop.
- [09:50]
A
And then afterwards, do you ever really enjoy the moment?
- [09:54]
B
I don't think I enjoyed Ghana. I think I endured Ghana.
- [09:58]
A
Okay.
- [09:59]
B
And that's not a negative thing. I think I just was like, okay, cool. I am very happy for the things I got from here. But all of this stuff here, I'm just kind of like practicing to go back. And I don't know where that came from. I think also my mum, God bless her, amazing woman, like, she'd call me every week. We do these like spelling tests, we'll do these Bible tests. I remember that she would pay me to read books. And now in hindsight, you know, my mom had been on benefits for a while and I remember she'd pay me, I think was 61 pounds to finish a book. And that was where I found my, like, deep love for reading. That is where I found my deep love for just, like, figuring out how things work because of that. So to me, there was always that feeling of, I'm going back. And so, you know, time needs to move a bit faster.
- [10:56]
A
Yeah. You know. How was the relationship between your mom and dad when you got back?
- [11:01]
B
Oh, I think the less said about that, the better. I think it was very tumultuous. They were separated, then they got divorced, but again, they did their best. I think the thing with a lot of African parents is for a lot of them, especially the ones who make that transition from Ghana or Nigeria to England, there is this sense of survival is the primary thing. And so especially if you bring, say, a kid into the world who you had in, you know, both of you hadn't actually planned for, then what can happen is that you almost think, I'm not going to say they were an inconvenience, because I don't think that's why it was an inconvenience. But if your primary mode is survival, then when you wake up, that's the first thing that you think about. Like, my dad was a social care worker. I remember, actually, this is a very funny story. I think a lot of people can empathize with this. For the longest time, I thought my dad was in property because I'd see these letters that would say, like, Southwark Home Care. So in my mind, thinking homes, like, he deals with property. But something didn't make sense in my mind because, like, we lived not in a good place. So I'd be like, how is this guy in property, but he's not able to afford a bigger place. And then. And then as I got older, I realized actually it's like social care. Like, he is a manager at a social care home. But anyway, to go back to your question about the vibe between them, I think it was fractured is probably the best way to say it didn't see quite eye to eye. But when it came to me, as I grew up, when it came to me, they had their ways of working together to make sure that. To make sure that I was taken care of. And my mom would do. You know, I am so grateful to my mom because she did a lot of very interesting sacrifices. Like, for example, when I was coming back to London, she decided, I guess she and my dad decided. But I know for her it was quite painful. Like, she decided I should go and live with my dad because she realized that basically she saw this stat which was that black boys in London who grew up without a father figure were four times more likely to end up in prison. So you can imagine, you know, for a mom, her only son, her only child, that was actually a very powerful thing. And so I'm very grateful for that. I'm very grateful to my dad for working, like, really hard to put food on the table for us as well. But, yeah, it was a very tumultuous thing.
- [13:45]
A
In which part of your life, Ghana or Ukraine, has contributed to your mentality about business and success?
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B
Oh, I mean, uk. But that's also because I started my first company at 14 out of a desire to make money. I started my second company at 17 that got sold.
- [14:04]
A
Cool. Is that because situation at home was not that great. So you were looking for ways out to help the family?
- [14:10]
B
Yeah, not to help the family. You know, some people, they go on podcasts and they say, like, their thing was to help their family. For me, it wasn't. It was always to. It was always to prove to myself that I could do it.
- [14:23]
A
What reason did you have to always prove to yourself?
- [14:28]
B
So I read this book a while ago, probably like five, six, seven years ago, and it talked about the fact that people who end up being successful have something called a superiority complex, which is that they believe they can be better than anyone else, but most importantly, they have a superiority and an ego to believe that they can be better than the actual surroundings that they're in. And I think I had grown up with that. I think around, like, 12, 13. I think I just was like, hang on. I am smarter than most people. I'm more capable. I can learn things. I can. I can act more, I can think faster. So if that's the case, then I'm going to back myself and say, you know what? Yeah, let me get on with it.
- [15:13]
A
Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out whether it's a thing of living with your grandmom. And it's. It's because I see a few people that, you know, when they spend time with their grandma, they end up being great. Right. But it's also a question I've got in my head, which is. May also stem from where you are bullied when you were young.
- [15:30]
B
Oh, that's interesting, because I actually was. I was bullied. Wow, that's crazy. I've. I've never thought about how that played a role. This has turned into, like a therapy session. I love it. I was actually bullied. Now I think about it in. So when I was younger, I had A very square head, like an obvious square head. And I remember I was bullied for that. And I always felt a bit like an outcast because I really wanted to learn new things and I really wanted to be that nerd. But I also was like a black person in London and in an inner city school, which meant that, like, I was also chilling with like the black kids and unfortunately a lot of the times they weren't really trying to learn. So I was the outcast there. But then also when I then kind of started to cultivate a group of like fellow nerds, whether it was the white people or the Indian people, I was also the outcast there because I was an only black kid there. So I think at various times I felt a bit like an outcast. And what business provided me was this idea of, okay, now I can be the person who, like, I'm the person, I'm creating my own world as opposed to being an outcome.
- [16:49]
A
That's what I just came to mind. So it's almost as if now you are in charge of what you can make your life become and how people see you.
- [16:57]
B
Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know what, for most people, I think if you really, really dig deep and you think about, all right, what's my drive? And you know, the first thing you might think about is family or money, etc. But I think if you ask yourself, you know, there's this whole idea of asking the five levels of why. And when you ask yourself the five levels of why, you really come down to like, the fundamental basis of the reason why you do certain things. And I think if, if, I think for most people, if they ask themselves the why, why, why, why, why, they'll find out that their why is actually significant. It is that they, they are yearning to feel significant. And for me, business fundamentally was like my way of feeling significant. Okay.
- [17:38]
A
But then also when you later found out that, you know, you were taken to Ghana by mom and dad, did it make you feel a certain way?
- [17:44]
B
I do think that what it made me feel was this sense of not, I'm going to show them, but I'm going to prove to myself that I was meant to, I was meant to do this. I, I, my mom always told me I was a prayed for child and she's told me this story before that, you know, someone prayed and then like the day afterwards or that night was when she became pregnant. Right. So I think as a kid, when you're constantly told that you're a prayed for child, you just believe in that Right. Like you just believe that you were ordained to do significant things. I got this question after we sold fanbytes, right? And I remember someone asked me, you know, did you think this will happen? I just said, yeah, because. Because that's the way I designed it in my head. Said I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this. Then I'm going to build this business. Maybe that's not going to work, but then I'll learn. And then eventually, before I'm 30, we will make it so that myself and any future family don't have to work.
- [18:55]
A
How early on in your life did you start thinking this way?
- [18:58]
B
I think at 14, I think when I started that first business and I realized I could make, you know, the first business was a tutoring company. I went and I tutored people, maths because I was very good at maths. And then what happened was other kids will come to me asking about other subjects. Chemistry, biology, physics, things I wasn't actually good at. But then what I would do is in my school, City of London, I will go to the teachers and I will ask them and say in the last test who got the highest grade? And then they will tell me and then I'll go to that student and just say, yo, do you want to make money? So effectively I had built, you know, and that then became the first business where I would connect tutors to tutors and I'll take a cut. And I think when that happened and I grew it to 65 tutors in six weeks that we're making money. I remember thinking, hang on a sec. So you're telling me two months ago this thing didn't exist. And then I, through my mind and my effort made this random idea exist and people are paying me for it. I think from that time I said, oh, okay, well the game's on. Then it's like, well, I just have to learn enough to apply it to more businesses and eventually one of them.
- [20:18]
A
Will hit when you make that money, I mean, what were you doing with the money?
- [20:23]
B
So actually there's a very funny story and this is sorry, told before. So unfortunately the person who actually got me really into business, especially that business, unfortunately that person is not alive anymore. That person was my best friend in school called Konal. And it's actually a very crazy story by the way of how, of how I found out Kunal 14, passed. I was with my ex girlfriend at the time and my best friend and, and walking down a park and then I saw Kunal Patel. I Saw it. I saw it on a bench and I was like, no. And then I called a friend, I said, hey, what's. What's going on? And she said, yeah, he had passed away a year ago. And actually, in my book, I actually make a dedication to him because I say, like, thank you for getting me into business. Like, thank you for making me believe in myself. Because actually what happened was at 14, he and I were coming back from school and we saw this black Mercedes Benz car. And he just looked at me and he said, like, oh, how much do you think that cost? And at 14, I didn't quite understand money. I mean, none of us really do, so we just say the biggest number we can think of. And I said, like, 500 pounds. And 500 pounds is a car. Because to me, that's like 5 million, and that car is worth 5 million. And so what happened was then he made the bet with me that changed my life. And he said, like, I bet you wouldn't make £500 before you turn 18. And he didn't say it as, like, you're rubbish, etc. I think he knew I could do it, but it was more like a dare, you know, it's like, okay, cool, let's go. And then that was the thing that I remember going online and trying to. You know, this was. This was 16 years ago. So, like, I remember going online and typing, you know, like, how to make money. And if you remember, you know, at that time, it's just scams. Like, all you see, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam. But the one thing I saw was actually a quote which said, like, work with what you know. And on that day, I had done very well on a maths exam. And then now that's when I said, oh, okay, maybe I'm going to teach other people maths. And that was the genesis of that tutoring business where I was teaching people math and people started coming to me and I found.
- [22:42]
A
Let me stop you here for a minute. We are on a journey of changing the minds and the lives of people. So if you haven't subscribed and become part of the family, please hit the subscribe button and turn on the notification. Thank you. Now, let's carry on with the conversation. How did you get your first client?
- [23:00]
B
I was well known in school as, like, the math guy. And so I just went the next day. I said, okay, guys, I have a business now. It's called Tim's Tutors. Tim's Tutors. At that point, Tim's Tutors was just me. And basically I was pricing as £10 an hour and that's it. £10 an hour and a tutor.
- [23:21]
A
And when you would make money, what would you do with the money? What did you do?
- [23:24]
B
I just had it. I just. I just had it. I mean, I've never been a crazy spender.
- [23:29]
A
Okay.
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B
I'm trying to think why they do that. Yeah, I just had it. In fact, no, I know what I was doing for it. Right. Because the whole plan was like, let me save to get that £500 to buy the thing. Right. But, you know, after a while I realized, well, that car is not worth £500 is worth a lot more.
- [23:48]
A
But during these times, you are still living with your dad in a council flats, and he was probably still struggling to, you know, pay bills here and there.
- [23:57]
B
Not at that time. At that time, I think things were going well. Now, unfortunately, my dad passed away because of a stroke. Yeah, two strokes. And I remember after the first stroke was when I really got a sense of, like, how much we struggled financially. Because, you know, when you're like 14, 15, it's kind of like, well, okay, I have my cocoa pops in the morning, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. It's only actually. This is a very interesting point. It's only actually when I went to boarding school, I was fortunate enough to get a scholarship to a boarding school. It was only then that I realized that I was, like, properly poor. Huh? Yeah. How? Because I went to a boarding school that was 27 grand a year. And there were people there who were paying that 27 grand a year. And I remember one day, I remember being in a field and then I heard this fan, like, and then I looked and it was a helicopter that was landing, picking up one of the kids. And I just remember thinking, what the heck? There are people who are not Richard Branson and Alan Sugar and Mark Cuban. There are big guys who can afford helicopters and you wouldn't have heard of them, because in my mind at that point, I thought it was either you were like Steve Jobs or you were poor. You know, it's like there's no in between. There's no in between because or not even poor was like, the rich people were Steve Jobs and Richard Branson and then everyone else, because I didn't have any exposure to anyone in the middle who actually had money. And then when you go to school, when you go to, like a boarding school, where that is the normal conversation, you go, okay, cool. Because all of you guys have parents who nobody knows them, but somehow you have eight homes, you can ski anytime. You are being picked up in Ferraris and Porsches and Rolls Royces. Okay, there's a way to get to where you are, which means I'm not Richard Branson or Alan Sugar and all.
- [26:13]
A
Those people, what did that do to your mentality?
- [26:15]
B
So, you know, when I mentioned earlier about having a superiority comple. Yeah, I think it made even extra. Because here's a very interesting story and I think a lot of your audience will be able to relate to this story is actually mad. So in school, before I went to the boarding school, I was basically, I identified as like, the smart one because, you know, I started a tutoring business. It's all going good, choppy, choppy, choppy, everyone's happy. Timo smart, Timo smart, Timo smart. And then I went to Christ Hospital, which was the boarding school. And then I met really smart people. And then I went, okay, these are the big boys. You know, we have people who are scoring 100% in maths in every maths module. People are doing university math at 15. Like we're talking. Yeah. And then I went, okay, I can't win this game. This game of intelligence, I can't win it because you guys have been groomed from 11 to just be. No, Oxbridge is just waiting for you. And so the thing it did to my mentality then was I said, all right, cool. I may not be able to win the intelligence game, but at least I can win the business game. And so that made me extra. I said, okay, I need to find a way. Because remember earlier that I said, I think at our core, everyone is driven by significance. I wanted to be significant in that six form, and the only way I could be significant was if I became the business guy. And so that's when I said, all right, cool. And so that was why at 17, whilst in that school, I then started my second business, Entrepreneur Express. And then that business, within 11 months, it got bought for £110,000. And I remember coming to school the next day because it was a boarding school, so I had to go to London, sign some documents and then come back. And I remember thinking, yeah, I've arrived now. You know, you can all do your Oxbridge and go to your Harvard's thanks to you. But like, none of you guys have built and sold a business at 17, and I'm gonna be that guy. And now I've done it.
- [28:16]
A
So I really want to find out, right, during those times when all this money is coming in, did you support home so Geez.
- [28:25]
B
One of the things that I cringe a lot about is after we sold that business. So that business was called Entrepreneur Express, it was like an online magazine and we sold it to an agency called Horizon Media. And the way that. So silly, the way the payment was structured, first I made 70 grand and then six months afterwards I made, then they added 40 grand. What I did so stupidly was that I got high of my own supply. Okay, I had an ego because I had started this business, we had grown it very fast through like Facebook groups and et cetera. And I've told that story elsewhere. So I'll just say, you know, that we grew the company. It was just me and two other people who were all freelancers. So we all came to me and within 11 months in that period, I had, you know, someone bought it for 110 grand and I was like, wow, I've got the Midas touch. I can just do anything. So then what I did was I started getting involved in something called spread betting. I know, idiot, actually. Idiot, idiot. What's the tree term for stupid? I don't think I can say the word. Is it word Jimmy or something? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, Me, I've jimmied and I was just like, what the heck? So I spent 40 grand on spread betting because I thought I had the Midas touch. Then I tried to invest in some other stuff which didn't quite work. I gave a bit to my dad. Really, in hindsight I should have done more. But again, I was like this 17 year old, ego driven kid. I was like, oh, I've done it before, I'm going to do it again, do it again, do it again. And then I just, I just squandered it. I just squandered it. I had a bit left, maybe 20, 30 grand, which I then used to try some more businesses, et cetera. And then eventually that then led to fanbytes. This is actually a lesson for everyone. In my book. There's a chapter that I say, I say the ego really is the enemy. Because for everyone who would achieve some level of success, it's very easy to assume that that means you have arrived. You know, it's so. It's so easy. Especially do you know what, sometimes in my African friends I see this a lot. It's worse. Yeah, like we reach a level and we think that's the max level, but it's not the max level. So I'll tell you actually an even funnier story. This is actually, this happened about two years ago after we Sold. Fan bites. You know, everyone said, oh my God, you know, because we saw the coming for like tens of millions of dollars, right? Like multi a figure deal. And then I hang out with a few friends who, you know, one of my friends is the founder of Ladbible and Ladbible, they took a social media agency, they took it public for 300 million. And I remember like almost hanging out with Ariane, my friend, and mentally going, you're no different to me. Not in like a way thinking, you know, not in a malicious way, just going, wow. We both started social media businesses and your outcome was like 10 times, you know, nine, 10 times bigger than mine, which tells me that there's like a bigger level to play. So I might think I have arrived, but I haven't even got out of the station. And that for me, almost like surrounding myself and being very cognizant of just how big the game is in business, how, how much opportunity there is in life has been one of the most grounding things for me.
- [32:22]
A
But the question is, is it always about more money though, in business?
- [32:26]
B
No, I think it's about more achievements.
- [32:29]
A
But how would you quantify that?
- [32:31]
B
Yeah. So on our way here, do you remember that you asked me the question about, okay, so what's the game? And then like completely unprompted, I said, well, it's not about more money. I think it's about more achievements. And more achievements is. So the beautiful thing about business is that the way that we measure results is money. So it's a very objective scoreboard. But achievement can come in the size of the impact that you have, the size of company you build, the lives that you impact. Because if I'm really being honest, if I'm really being honest, and it's been a few years since fanbuys, if I'm really being honest, like we didn't change the world. Like brands came to us to connect with Gen Z and we connected them with social media influencers, right? No one's live got changed. It was just, we're just in the flow of money. Brands come to us, we plan a marketing campaign, we get influencers, the influencers then, you know, talk about it. They get paid, we get paid. It's not really like an impactful thing, Right. Even my friends who are very good at property, because I know that we talked about it earlier, right? You could actually say like, you know, if you build an apartment building of however many people, you are impacting those people because you're providing them shelter, et cetera, in our business. It was just purely, just vibes. It was just a purely like capitalistic thing, you know. And so I think it's not just money, it definitely can be achievement. And achievement can be measured by. Yes, money, impact, fun, team, potential. Potential is a big one. I don't think I've reached my potential at all.
- [34:17]
A
How does it look like when you think about it?
- [34:19]
B
So I always think about business as having levels. Right. Level 10 is, let's say like Elon Musk, where you are generally building new things which change the world. You know, Tesla, change the world. Solarcity, change the world. Neuralink changes the world. Twitter to some degree. I mean, I know he didn't find that, but like changes the world and then there is levels underneath that based on impact and like how important and how big of a leader you can be. And I think I'm on level four.
- [34:56]
A
Timo, if. If you had not gone back to the uk.
- [35:01]
B
Yeah.
- [35:03]
A
Do you think you would have been as successful as you have been?
- [35:06]
B
Yes. How? I would have figured out a way. I would have figured out a way. Maybe not in influencer marketing, because here's the thing with business, right? Or like becoming successful in anything, especially now that I've sold a few more companies since Fanbyte, I've come to appreciate something, that the biggest determinant of your company success is timing. It's not actually how good you are, it is have you picked the right wave to serve. So like at Fanbytes when we started in 2017, social media influencers, Social media influencers were up and coming. And so it's no surprise that within 18 months, 10 different companies like Fanbuys got bought, some from 10 million all the way up to go to sold for like 100 and something million. Because we all rode the same wave. So to answer your question about would I have been successful here? Yes. But I think it would have been a different wave. Maybe I would have started a fintech company, maybe I would have started a Web3 company, but I would have started something which was like the whip. Maybe I would have gone into property and like figured out a different angle bringing in tech, but I would have figured out a way, and this is actually a very important thing, I think for your audience to understand. It's not so much how hard you work is what you choose to work on. Because you and I could both start businesses. You could choose something right now which is like an AI enabled thing. I could go start a restaurant, I could even start an agency. But you will grow faster because the market now Wants more AI solutions. And so sometimes, and unfortunately I see this a lot with, like, our community and our culture sometimes where there is this deep desire to just be your own boss, be your own boss, be your own boss. Right. I don't want to work for nobody, by the way. I hate that. I absolutely hate that reason. Because by definition, if you build a business which has some kind of traction, you're working for a lot of people, you're working for your employees, you're working for your investors. So you go from having one boss to having several bosses. But that's. We can park that. But what I mean is, everyone is so passionate to be your own boss, be your own boss, but they're not thinking the boss of what. So everybody wants to start a catering business, do this thing, do this thing, do this thing. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, think. If your end goal is, I want to build something of significance, I want to build something where, like, I'm just not tied to the job every single time, I'm just not the main person doing it, then think a lot more about, like, what opportunities are the market rewarding, what wave is going up now and then how do I ride that wave rather than I just want to do a business, so I'm just going to do a business, you know, I mean.
- [38:08]
A
Yeah. So essentially, just find something people are looking for.
- [38:12]
B
Right. And we'll keep increasing. Right, because people are looking for, you know, people are looking for haircuts, but don't become a barber. People are looking for taxis, but don't go and start a taxi company. You know, start something where there's like a massive shift going on in the world. There's like a massive transformational shift going on in your community, in your area, and then run it up. Is why all these fintech companies in Africa, they do so well. It's like they do well in raising funding. Maybe they don't do well in actually executing a business, but they do well in raising funding. Because the story you tell to investors, which is true, is that, you know, cash is still the main thing in Africa. Mobile phones are increasing. Now is the time to do this.
- [39:03]
A
Right.
- [39:03]
B
And so when you do that, now is the time, same way with Fanbuytes, now is the time to do influencers because it's growing. You can build a business through that.
- [39:12]
A
But then there's still a big, A big chunk of, you know, Africans that are looking for greener pastures abroad.
- [39:18]
B
Yeah. On.
- [39:19]
A
On the. On the continent. Then why do you think a lot of People are still looking elsewhere.
- [39:24]
B
Well, because the prize is bigger.
- [39:27]
A
Okay.
- [39:28]
B
That you and I could work on the same business. I could do it in England, you could do it here, and we could both win. But then I'd win 10 times more than you because the price is just bigger.
- [39:43]
A
So it's just a matter of pricing. That's why people want that opportunity.
- [39:46]
B
No, the price. The price.
- [39:48]
A
Not the price as in the value of it.
- [39:50]
B
Yeah.
- [39:51]
A
Right.
- [39:52]
B
Like you get a hundred customers paying you. I don't know what is the equivalent of a thousand pounds here for like a big ticket thing. Yeah. If I go to England, I get those same hundred people to pay me a hundred thousand. So who's gonna win me?
- [40:13]
A
So I have a lot of young audience.
- [40:15]
B
Yeah.
- [40:16]
A
And especially the Gen Z's. Now, what's one mindset that they get wrong about business?
- [40:23]
B
The thing they get wrong is they assume that if it doesn't work in one year, it's not going to work at all. You start a business and you immediately think that it should work because on Instagram and TikTok you saw some guy who started a business and then in the next scene he's driving his Ferrari and you go, oh my God. Because I'm not doing that right now. I'm failing.
- [40:48]
A
On average. How long does it take?
- [40:55]
B
Do you know the average age of a successful entrepreneur?
- [40:58]
A
No.
- [40:59]
B
42. That's the average age of a successful entrepreneur. But social media would make you think that if you're not 18 and have your Lamborghini, then you're a failure.
- [41:12]
A
I guess the biggest question is, can everyone be an entrepreneur?
- [41:17]
B
No, but I do think everyone can learn to make money. Yes. Yes. But I don't think everyone can be an entrepreneur. Those two things are very different.
- [41:28]
A
Talk to me.
- [41:30]
B
If you think about the making of money, it is finding problems and then providing solutions for them. And if you just do that enough times, you'll make a lot of money. The definition of an entrepreneur is very different in two ways. One of them is from a mindset perspective, you have to be very comfortable with risk and uncertainty and, and just have the self ownership to say, we're gonna go and I'm gonna make it happen. And I'm comfortable with that because even though we think this, there's a lot of people who aren't comfortable with the uncertainty. It's just facts. And I think sometimes, you know, one of my best friends or one of my close friends is Simon Squibb. And do you know Simon Squibb?
- [42:15]
A
Yeah.
- [42:15]
B
Simon Squibb. I was with him like a few days ago. I love Simon to bits. And what I love is that some people get his message wrong, where they think he's saying, everyone quit your job. Da, da, da. No, what he's saying to everyone is like, learn to make money. Learn to not need, just like a salary to make money. Right. And I very much agree with that. But the other part of an entrepreneur is they have to be able to build systems which are able to exist and give them leverage. So when we sold Fanbyte, you know, we had a team of 80 people. That's 80 people. They're all part of a system. And sometimes there are people who love the thing so much that they actually don't want to be able to build a system. You are the hairdresser who genuinely loves making people's hair. And that's great, I'm happy for you. But that's not an entrepreneur. That's a business owner, but that's not an entrepreneur. So if you combine the mindset parts of it, if you combine also the fact that they need to be able to create leverage and systems, there are some people who just don't want to do that, you know, and sometimes it really pisses me off. Now I'm going to go on a run. It really pisses me off when I basically see what I call, like, forced entrepreneurship. And forced entrepreneurship is when people feel like the thing they should do is become an entrepreneur. When asking yourself, do I really want this? Do I really want this life? Do I really want to? Because so many people I've seen incredibly smart, capable people, here's what they do. They get into force entrepreneurship. And the alternative was actually a perfectly great life for them where they could have been the best secretary, they could have been the best doctor, they could have been the best anything, they could have been the best finance manager, they could have been the best operations person and earn so much more money with less stress. But because they feel this, I need to be my own boss. Because that's what people on social media told me to do. They end up being sadder and poorer. And that, I see, is like an epidemic basically going out. It's an epidemic going out, especially through social media, where it feels like if you're not an entrepreneur, then you're a loser. And that is not true at all.
- [44:34]
A
Let me stop you here for a minute. We are on the journey of changing the minds and the lives of people. So if you haven't subscribed and become part of the family, please hit the subscribe button and turn on the notification. Thank you. Now, let's carry on with the conversation. I've never seen it been said this way. That's why I was very attentive, you know, listening to everything that you were saying. Wow. The, the. I want to take you back to the, the African diaspora.
- [45:05]
B
Yeah, right.
- [45:07]
A
In the uk.
- [45:08]
B
Yeah.
- [45:08]
A
In many parts of the west.
- [45:12]
B
Most.
- [45:12]
A
People come in with, I mean, not in your case. Right. But most people come in, you know, they, they stay with uncles and aunties and maybe when they get there, these people are doing cleaning jobs or care jobs and they are advised in most cases to do the same.
- [45:28]
B
Interesting. Okay. Yeah, right.
- [45:30]
A
So you see a lot of uncles, you know, when you go to funerals or you go to churches, they all do almost the same thing.
- [45:35]
B
Yeah, right.
- [45:35]
A
So they don't really get to build wealth or make enough money. Right. At some point they move back to their country when they are sick and can't even live in the seven or 10 bedroom houses that they've built here.
- [45:50]
B
That they've built. Yeah.
- [45:51]
A
What would, as a businessman, someone who's become a multi millionaire at quite a young age, what. And a Ghanaian guy as well, what would be your method for people who've come into the country, either in the UK or any part of the west, to follow, to be able to at least also get a better life?
- [46:07]
B
So the challenge with this is that it is so circumstantial. Like it does depend on so many things. And it's funny you should say this because I was talking with a friend about how it's kind of sad how so many of our aunties and uncles was like, because they came from Ghana, they came from Nigeria, they came from anywhere and they had great degrees here. They had, you know, business degrees, law degrees, engineering degrees. And then because it's not respected in the Western world, they end up having to like start again. And unfortunately I actually don't have a good, I don't have a good answer for that because I think it's so circumstantial. But also I haven't had that experience. And also I just can't fathom or imagine when you're in that level of survival. Like my dad, I remember he was constant, constant, constant trying to make it happen. I remember, unfortunately, when he passed away and I went to his room and I was taking out the documents from his room and I saw his last pay slip. I think it was like 34,000 or something. And I just remember thinking, man, like he was 59 when he passed. I just thought, man, at 59 and earning less than, like, some of my friends who. They've just gone to get a banking job at like 25. And I just remember being so grateful, just being so grateful to him, to my mom, to be like, man, I now I get it. Like, now I get why you almost felt constantly on edge, to constantly do more hours, do more rotor, do more stuff, do work on Sundays, work on, work in the evenings, do all of that just because, you know, because this was, this was a small amount of money that you had to make work for us and then also send back to Ghana. That's always the case. Always building the home in Ghana. Everyone's building a home back home.
- [48:28]
A
They never get a chance to even live.
- [48:30]
B
They never get a chance to live. And that's, That's. Yeah, that's. Isn't it funny how, like, they've all lived the same lives, right? You know, they come in, they do social care, social welfare job, they try and earn enough to then go back home. Basically, from the time that they land in England or in America is basically a countdown clock for them to go back to where they came from.
- [48:57]
A
Yeah.
- [48:59]
B
That's crazy, isn't it?
- [49:00]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [49:01]
B
Then the question would almost be, why even leave?
- [49:05]
A
Yes. Yeah. But anyway, that's. That, that conversation is just.
- [49:11]
B
It's turning to therapy.
- [49:12]
A
Yeah. Products or service as a business or property investment or property, whatever. As a business.
- [49:21]
B
I really hate when people tell you to get into property as a business, as your first business. Terrible advice. Terrible, terrible advice. I think is one of the worst pieces of advice on social media. And here's why. To me, I believe that as an entrepreneur, you should be in control of how successful your business can be and you should be able to influence it to go as fast as you can or as slow as you can when you buy a property. Yeah, you can optimize for the best location, blah, blah, blah. But the number one determinant is just time. It's just I bought this property and over time, capital appreciation and rental income over time, and mainly capital appreciation over time will help me. Right? But if you start a product or service business, something where you can do more marketing, you can drive more sales, you can triple your sales in a day by learning Facebook ads and activating Facebook ads, doing more sales calls, you can directly influence the trajectory of your business in a much faster way if you have a product or service. Because if I start an agency, I can make more calls and I can get more money, I can put out more Proposals, I can get more money. If I sold products, I can run more ads and make more money. I can do it within a few days to within a few weeks. So within a few hours, tell me where else apart from like building a product or service where I can 10x my money in a year? Nowhere. Property I buy, then I wait and I trade. No. So for me, I. I don't see property as a wealth generator, in my opinion, I see it as a wealth preserver. So as I stand here, someone who, someone who's been fortunate enough to have made money, I don't own a single property. I don't own my residential property. Two years ago, I did a deal with two friends where we own a commercial building. But that was so that I could basically loan against it, and then I could use that to invest in other things so I'm not on the property ladder as an individual. And every time I tell somebody, oh, my God, you should buy a house. No, no, no. It's like, no, I don't want to. Why? I don't have a family. I don't. Maybe when I do, yeah, but even then I just, I just, I don't know, rent for like four years or something and then just be good.
- [52:00]
A
So you'd rather just the money? You sit in there?
- [52:02]
B
No, it doesn't sit there. It does a lot of stuff, right. I buy companies, I sell companies, I invest in commodities, I do a lot of private lending, I do debt financing. Um, you know, in a recent deal, I. I did a debt financing for buying a yacht. For someone, like, the money is working and is doing things, it's just not like, stuck. That's another thing about property that you invest in the thing and like, the money's just basically stuck in the building. And then you wait for time to do its thing, which is actually ridiculous if you think about it. If I told you here's some money, or, sorry, if I told you give me your money, you wouldn't be able to really touch the money. Maybe over time you'll maybe get like, I don't know how fast property prices are here. What's like 8% a year? I don't know, what is it here? 12% a year?
- [52:59]
A
Yeah. Maybe a bit more.
- [53:00]
B
What, 12? 15.
- [53:01]
A
Maybe about 15, 20.
- [53:04]
B
Okay, 15. 20% a year. But you won't be able to, like, touch the money for the next few years. So anytime you want to. Now, actually, you have a better idea, you have a better bet, you still can't touch it. And to me, maybe so I'M going to say something mad controversial and I'm sure people will cut it up. I think that investing in property early on in your career as your business. Right. I think investing in property as your business is outsourcing your wealth. Wow. If you truly back yourself, if you truly think you are the person, you are capable and you are as smart and you are as driven and you can make it happen as much as you think, then just invest in yourself. Because maybe your Property gives you 15, 20%. Woo. But you invest in yourself and the business and your skills, you're compounded that 100, 200, 300% a year and it and it compounds. So why would you go play a game where you just give your world to time to happen as opposed to you being in charge of it?
- [54:21]
A
So for the many people who can't make it happen and take charge of their lives, what is stopping them?
- [54:27]
B
So you go to the book, what's stopping you? So at first I want to back up and actually explain why we call the book what's stopping You? Okay. Right. It's because growing up in South London, growing up with my dad, you know, starting that business at 14, selling Entrepreneur Express at 17, selling Fanbuys at 27, for a long time I had this belief that there was something else external that I didn't have and that was the reason I wasn't successful. So for a long time I'd say, oh, okay. You know, at one point I said it's because I'm black. You know, because I went to a sixth form and I see all these rich white people and I go like, oh yeah, you know, they, it's easier for them to network because they're all white and I'm black. And I come up with these absolute BS reasons why that person is successful and I'm not. And I'd constantly read books which are great, but I constantly read books and things like the answer is in these books. The Think and Grow Riches. The Rich dad, Poor dad, the four hour Work. All great books. If you take it as I am using this to help me rather than this thing is going to tell me the answer. And so after all of that journey, after realizing that all the stuff, the drive, the effort, the mental fortitude, the desire, the ability to upskill myself, to learn sales, to learn marketing, all of that was basically inside me. Huh? And I just had to believe that I was the one who could do it. That's why we then call it what's stopping you? Like even the first chapter in this book the first chapter in this book is we are the stories that we tell ourselves. And I believe that so wholeheartedly, so powerfully because if you tell yourself the story, you know, in the same way that myself as a kid I would tell myself the story of like I don't belong here. I don't belong here. Like I'm going to be that guy. I'm going to be that guy because I told myself that story. I became that person. And I know it sounds very woo woo, but generally if you then tell yourself an uninspiring story, you say, oh, I'm the type of person. That's a phrase that I really cannot stand. And it's very important to audit your language. When you say stuff like I'm the type of person who X, you're subtly reinforcing to your brain the identity that you want. I'm the type of person who's never on time. I'm the type of person who gets angry quickly. I'm the type of person who I have so many ideas and I don't start any. But you're constantly then telling yourself all these things so that the next time something amazing happens and an opportunity presents itself to you and says boom. Act. You go, I'm the type of person. So just as an example, you know, in this book we have 11 cheat codes. So we call them cheat codes because they're ways of thinking to like get faster in the game of business. That's why we call them cheat codes because you know when you're playing a game and you discover cheat code there 11 cheat codes. So some of them, as I mentioned, was where the stories we tell ourselves. Another one is everything big starts small. You know, In Fanbytes our first ever deal was £300.
- [58:00]
A
Okay.
- [58:01]
B
By the time we saw the business we're doing deals at 3 million in five, six years. And then my personal favorite one is it's not that deep. It's not that deep. It's not that deep. That's chapter eight because oh, that's cheat code eight because like it really is not that deep. And as you grow in business and life and so many times you think, oh my God, this thing is going to destroy us, this thing's going to kill us. And you realize bro, it's not that deep. And so that's why the book is called what's Stopping youg and I am my desire. Is that in the same way that I, that you know, 14 year old, very anxious kid who had like come from Ghana and was like, I really want to make it. I really want to make it, but I'm not sure how, but I really want to make it. And driven by a lot of angst and just like feeling this constant emotional turmoil. If I had read this book, I would have almost approached life in a lot calmer way and a lot more certain. And I'm hoping I can give that feeling to tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people around the world.
- [59:06]
A
You think this is what you would have given to your younger self as an entrepreneur?
- [59:10]
B
Yeah, I mean, actually, even in the book, the forward. The forward is I dedicate this book to my younger self. Thank you for constantly believing in yourself then. Because generally if I, if I gave this to him, you just said, yeah, okay, proper, let's go.
- [59:36]
A
What do you think is the most important skill for entrepreneurs? Most important?
- [59:40]
B
I'm going to give you a soft skill and I'm going to give you a hard skill.
- [59:43]
A
Okay, let's go.
- [59:44]
B
The soft skill is actually the ability to lower your own ego and learn from others. That is a soft skill. And I think as entrepreneurs, sometimes we think like, we have to have all the answers and we have to have all the questions. But the best entrepreneurs. One of my friends is a guy called Dhiraj. Dhiraj Mukeji. He founded Shazam, you know, the company that sold to Apple for like 400 million. Dhiraj is the most low ego person because all he does is that he, he is not shy about going to people and saying, tell me how you did this thing. Then they tell him and then he then does it. Low ego. Tell me how you work this. Oh, is that how you did it? Oh, that's really good. Cool. Bring in low ego. And I find so many of my friends low ego. Even with me at Fanbuys, there were so many things where, when I turned down my ego, when I said, I don't need to be the one who has all the questions and the answers, life changed. And then the. And then the hard skill is actually a skill which I think everyone here can learn and I would highly encourage everyone here to learn, which is just marketing. I think everything my friend Dan Priestley says this. Well, he says everything is downstream from lead generation. What that means is if you're able to create demand and stoke demand, you will never be in want. You never be in want and marketing. Thankfully, we're in the age where you can learn Facebook ads, influencer marketing, social media marketing, content marketing. You can learn it, you can understand fanos. I actually saw in your office, you have expert secrets. Right. That book has changed so many lives. That book changed my life. Pick up those books, implement what they've done. Because if you have that skill, the ability to drive traffic, to create demand, you would never go hungry ever again in your life.
- [61:31]
A
Amazing. Motivation or discipline?
- [61:36]
B
Discipline. Not even a question, is it? Yeah. So you know what's actually very funny? As you get further in business, or rather, let me change that. As you start in business, you rely a lot on motivation. As you get further in business, you realize it was just discipline. When you first get started, you watch all those videos, you know, YouTube videos, you can do it. Let's go. You know, can't hurt me. David Goggins. Shout in your ear, let's go, Tony Robbins. What was the name of that guy? The preacher. Eric Thomas. Eric Thomas the preacher. Right. And then you realize that actually all of that is very temporary.
- [62:25]
A
Yeah.
- [62:26]
B
But when you create the systems and you allow these systems and these tools around you to make sure that you are staying on the right path, you just can't lose. And it's funny that in. In life. That was really interesting. In life, we celebrate the person who was fat and lost weight, but we don't celebrate the person who wasn't fat in the first place. Wow.
- [62:56]
A
Yeah.
- [62:57]
B
Everyone's like, yeah, you lost weight, but then how about the person who was just disciplined enough to not even get there? But then we celebrate the person who was then motivated enough to have gone bad and then gone good. And if you actually treat your life as more of the second person, the person who actually. They're like this. They're like, they don't do that. This is discipline. You find that your life would generally get better over time.
- [63:24]
A
What's the best advice you've ever received?
- [63:27]
B
This advice was from my Nigerian auntie, and she told me this when I was 14. And she told me this after I saw someone do something. I think they were a footballer. And she turned to me and the best advice I ever got was from a Nigerian auntie who said, do they have two heads? Wow. And I remember, I still say that now because do they have two heads? Is when you look at someone who has done something that you want to be able to do, there's nothing special. There's nothing special. Zero special. They've just applied themselves over a long enough time period and then they've succeeded. But then you think that there's something special because your brain can't go raw. Like, they're the same as me. So the best advice I ever got and it's the best advice I give to people is do they have two heads? Ask yourself that question and find out you are no different to the superstars that you look at. They've just committed over a enough time period.
- [64:33]
A
So there are so many books, right, that you have read?
- [64:36]
B
Yes.
- [64:38]
A
And I've read so many books. Why should I read your book?
- [64:43]
B
So I wrote this book for the person who knows that they can become more and they can do more. And yes, in it, you learn some mental things, but you also learn some very practical things. In this book, I go into a lot of detail as to how I build businesses and the way that I study them, but also how I got my mind right. So I'm not saying that you read this book and then suddenly you don't need to read any other book ever. But I'm saying if you want a real life relatable, this is very important. I'm not just some random guy who built a business that you can't understand. If you want a real life relatable business from someone who probably had a similar upbringing to you, someone who had felt the same doubts and insecurities like you, and someone who is still alive to tell you the story, then this book is for you or stopping you.
- [65:47]
A
And you can get your copy on Amazon, pre order it. Yeah, you can pre order a copy now. We had a guest here, actually.
- [65:58]
B
Sorry.
- [65:58]
A
Okay.
- [65:59]
B
I've got one thing to say about the pre order. Yeah, go on. So we're doing something actually very cool, which is if you pre order it before the published and the publishing date. Let me say again, Let me say it again. So we're doing something very special which is if you pre order the book before the publishing date in Jan, what you end up doing is you get a lot of bonuses like my workbook, for how I stay productive. You will see my journal of the way that I plan stuff. But the most insane thing is actually we have this insane launch event which has all the biggest youtubers and business personalities are all in there. We're talking like Dan Priestley, Simon Squibbin, Dean Forbes, all of these like great people are going to be around for the webinar. And that's if you just pre order it. And that's my way of saying thank you to you and also talking to these people to find out what was stopping them and how they overcame their challenges. So that's incredible. I am so excited for that because I know it's going to change so many people's lives for that and that comes if you pre order.
- [67:06]
A
Beautiful. You've done amazing. I. I had a guest here, Dr. Daniel Macaulay, who is a billionaire in Ghana, and, you know, he spoke about his book and when he left the comments, There were over 500 comments. 90% were requesting for the book. They had to go back to print to get copies. So I know my audience, amazing people, I know they're going to be requesting for this book. So you can go ahead and pre order the book, get yourself a copy. Amazing. I'm going to get myself a copy as well. And yeah, let's support. But thank you so much. You know, I really appreciate your time and how late we're able to arrange this and you know, like, it's also very late right now, but thank you so much. I really appreciate this. You've given us a lot of information that we can do a lot with. So to my audience, thank you so much. If you made it to the end, I want to know, and I'm going to leave all the details in the description where you can find Timo and then also get a copy of what's Stopping you, because nothing really should stop you. You've heard the story, he's done it. A lot of people that have sat here, they've done it. And he's really got everything in the book for you. So thank you. It's Derek here. Bye. Bye.