LA PLÁTICA Podcast Summary

Episode Title: "I Interviewed Cartel Leaders… Here’s What I Learned"

Date: March 2, 2026
Guests: Mariana van Zeller (host of Trafficked)
Hosts: Josh Leyva & Sebastian "Sebas" Robles (plus frequent co-host)

Episode Overview

This episode of La Plática offers a deep dive into the dangerous world of drug cartels, black markets, and investigative journalism through the eyes of acclaimed journalist and documentarian Mariana van Zeller. Mariana shares firsthand stories of infiltrating cartel strongholds, the complexities of reporting from the front lines of the world’s most dangerous black and gray economies, and the ethics, risks, and motivations that drive her work. The conversation is raw, insightful, and laced with both humor and gravity as the hosts explore Mariana’s unique career, personal philosophy, and the state of cartel violence in Latin America.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Mariana van Zeller’s Background & Approach

• Becoming a Journalist
  • Began dreaming of journalism as a child in Portugal, inspired by nightly news traditions at home [07:00].
  • Persistence: Applied to Columbia University’s journalism school three times—and after a personal meeting with the dean, was finally accepted [08:00].
  • Witnessed 9/11 during her first month in New York, reporting live for Portuguese TV [09:13-10:27].
• First Forays into Black Market Reporting
  • Moved to Syria, funded early freelance work by selling carpets her mother sold in Portugal [11:36].
  • Highlight: Documented foreign fighters crossing into Iraq and sold the story to Channel 4 UK when US networks found it “too soon” after 9/11 [13:13-14:02].
• Evolution into Long-Form Documentary
  • Began with short news, but fell in love with documentary storytelling at Columbia and through early assignments [14:17-14:39].
  • Created Trafficked (Nat Geo/Hulu) and her newer podcast The Hidden Third ([05:31]).
    • “An estimated 30-35% of the global economy are black and gray markets.” — Mariana [05:31]

2. Access, Ethics, and Risk: Entering the Cartel World

• Securing Access & Establishing Trust
  • “We don’t show up in a drug den in Sinaloa with cameras… A lot of our time is spent getting access… There are always ground rules.” [16:51-17:10]
  • Heavy focus on consent, safety (hiding identities, respecting ground rules), and source protection [17:10-17:57].
• Risk & Threats
  • Receives online threats but stresses that, “It’s not from the people we spend time with—it’s mostly from people online.” [17:58]
  • Uses a nonjudgmental approach to understand the “why” behind illegal actors: “I’m here with no judgment… but I am going to ask you difficult questions.” [17:58]
• Undercover Journalism
  • Has gone undercover to expose illegal bride trafficking in Vietnam, tiger trafficking in Laos, and shark fin markets in North America—using hidden cameras for access [20:32-23:14].
  • Undercover work sometimes more dangerous than sitting with armed cartel members [25:12], recounting chases, brushes with marines, and a military coup in Niger [26:11].

3. Violence, Power Struggles, and Their Victims

• Cartel Leadership and Succession
  • Recent killing of El Mencho (CJNG) could fuel more violence—removal of cartel heads often leads to greater chaos as more violent actors rise [00:00, 37:42-38:05].
  • “Every new generation of cartels becomes more violent than the former one.” — Mariana [38:06]
• Guns & US Responsibility
  • 70%+ of guns in Mexico come from the US, often purchased easily through “straw purchases” or corrupt police/military channels [35:57-40:08].

    “There’s only one gun store in all of Mexico... but you can still find [illegal] guns everywhere because of US supply.” — Mariana [36:16, 38:50]

• Impact on Civilians
  • Innocent people caught in crossfire, especially during power vacuums or turf wars [38:37].
  • Recounts the work of “Sabuesos Guerreras” (Greyhound Warriors)—women searching for missing loved ones amid Mexico’s tens of thousands of disappeared [44:57-45:41].

4. Glamor & Myth VS Reality of the Narco Lifestyle

• Life as a Narco or Cartel Leader
  • Despite narcocorridos and pop culture, cartel life is grim—constant hiding, paranoia, and threat.
  • But in regions like Sinaloa, high-level impunity sometimes enables lavish local parties with luxury and bravado [45:58-49:15].

    “All the capos... were there with their bodyguards... all the women, all the cartel wives dressed up with Louis Vuitton and Gucci and fancy jewelry...drinking top-shelf tequila.” [47:28]

  • Mariana and team once attended such a party during a failed attempt to interview El Chapo’s mother [47:28-49:41].
  • Journalistic ethics: Refused to pay for interviews with cartel figures—even at risk to their safety [50:07].

5. Personal Philosophy: Humanity Behind the Headlines

• Do “bad people” exist?

  “I think there’s good and bad in all of us. I do think there is evil in the world. I’d be ridiculous to say otherwise… But the vast majority are people just like you and me—it’s a lack of opportunity and enormous inequality that leads people to crime.” — Mariana [29:47-30:27]

• Psychology and Empathy
  • Describes interviews where cartel members grapple with their choices, sometimes finding the conversation therapeutic [31:25-33:49].

    “Nobody had ever sat down with me and been interested in my life… This has been an enormous therapeutical session for me.” — Jojo, South African child assassin [33:20]

6. Chasing Stories: Inside the Most Dangerous & Unseen Worlds

• Adventure and Preparation
  • Thorough prep—months or years to secure access, safety teams, legal and insurance constraints [63:05-64:24].
• Most Dangerous Assignments
  • Military coup in Niger: Mariana and team trapped for 9–10 days amid gold smuggling and terrorism, needing last-minute evacuation [56:14-62:26].
• Journalism’s Pull
  • Still driven by “journalism itch” to chase breaking cartel stories and add needed context [34:28-35:02].
• Unfinished Stories
  • Passions for reporting on Mongolia’s illegal dinosaur bone trade and seeking access to Iran [66:17].

7. The Journalist’s Life: Humanity at the Core

• Personal Balance
  • Enjoys ordinary pleasures: shopping, wine, antique markets, interior design [65:17], but always feels the pull of fieldwork.
• Takeaway Message

  “At the end of the day, no matter how far I travel or how dark it gets, I’m still able to connect with people on a human level… It gives me enormous hope… It’s the systems that are broken, inequality oppresses people. I want my work to start conversations about making the world fairer.” — Mariana [69:13]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Why She Keeps Doing Dangerous Stories:

  “With the privilege of being able to tap into these worlds and see what it’s really like… comes the responsibility of asking those tough questions.” — Mariana [19:55]

• On Gender & Undercover Access:

  “I love to use gender bias to my advantage… As women, we’re often underestimated. I don’t think people see us as threatening in the same way—but little do they know.” [24:21]

• On Cartel Succession:

  “The people who rise to the top… are often the most violent people in that cartel.” [37:42]

• On American Guns in Mexico:

  “I filmed with a guy with a warehouse full of guns… many were bought from the police, from the military. He was showing AR-15s, AK-47s… He’d buy guns seized by cops, then buy them back for $1,000.” [38:50-40:08]

• On Ethics of Paying for Interviews:

  “As journalists, it creates an incentive for people to just say whatever they want and be paid. We’re in search of the truth. We shouldn’t be paying… It wouldn’t be ethical.” [50:07]

• On Her ‘Superpower’ as a Journalist:

  “Connecting on a human level and finding humanity in everyone—even the darkest corners.” [29:11, 69:13]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |:--------------|:----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:31 | Mariana introduces ‘The Hidden Third’ podcast & explains global black markets | | 07:00–10:27 | Her origin story: Portugal, Columbia J-school, live reporting on 9/11 | | 14:17–15:49 | From news to investigative docs: the birth of her style | | 16:51–18:39 | Risks, consent, sources, and mounting threats | | 20:32–24:21 | Undercover journalism: from Asia to North America | | 25:10–27:05 | Most dangerous moments: Sinaloa, Niger, & her husband’s support | | 29:47–30:43 | Nature of “bad people” and the role of economic circumstances | | 31:25–33:49 | Psychologically complex interviews: example of Jojo in South Africa | | 34:28–36:06 | Ongoing drive to cover breaking, dangerous stories | | 35:57–40:08 | American gun smuggling, straw purchases, US responsibility | | 44:57–45:41 | “Sabuesos Guerreras” and the families of the disappeared | | 47:28–49:41 | The paradox of narco glamour: reporting from cartel parties | | 56:14–62:26 | Trapped during a military coup in Niger: gold smuggling and last-minute evacuation | | 63:05–64:24 | The incredible costs, legal, and insurance hurdles behind every trip | | 65:17 | Mariana’s passions outside journalism (shopping, wine, markets, design) | | 69:13 | Lessons about humanity; hope for a better, fairer world | | 70:30–71:20 | On being compared to Joe Rogan and closing reflections |

Overall Tone & Style

• Warm, candid, deeply human. The conversation is funny at times but never shies away from darkness.
• Both hosts and guest maintain a tone of admiration, humility, and razor-sharp honesty.
• Mariana is celebrated for her courage but grounds her stories in empathy and context.
• Emphasis on systemic roots of crime rather than sensationalism.

For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

If you’ve never watched Trafficked or thought deeply about the black markets fueling cartel violence, this episode cracks open a world that is both terrifyingly close and often misunderstood. Mariana van Zeller’s stories go beyond headlines to the human experience—of perpetrators, victims, entire communities, and herself as a journalist. By exploring the why—not just the what—you’ll come away with essential context on global corruption, violence, and the hope that comes from seeing “the humanity in everyone.”

Recommended: Watch Mariana van Zeller’s “Trafficked” on Nat Geo/Hulu/Disney+ and “The Hidden Third” podcast for more stories from the world’s hidden economies.