“Life Is Just So” (w/ Lena Dunham)

Summary

Las Culturistas: "Life Is Just So" (with Lena Dunham)

Podcast: Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang | Episode Date: April 15, 2026 | Guest: Lena Dunham

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Episode Overview

This episode welcomes Lena Dunham—creator, writer, and star of "Girls"—for an effusive, vulnerable, and hilarious deep-dive into cultural moments, the legacy of "Girls," creative and personal growth, health revelations, addiction, friendship, and the messiness of what it means to be alive. Matt and Bowen’s signature blend of pop culture devotion, camp, and candor meets Lena’s self-deprecating humor and reflective wisdom, resulting in a must-listen for fans of millennial culture, TV, and authentic conversation.

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Major Topics & Discussion Points

1. Cultural DNA: The Power of "Girls" and Its Lasting Impact

• Opening Salvo: The hosts immediately pay homage to Lena’s dialogue-writing prowess, quoting iconic lines from "Girls" (02:12–03:18), and discuss her new book Fame Sick as a must-read for understanding modern fame and the creative process.
• Legacy & Re-Evaluation: They reflect on the show's time-capsule quality and its growing reputation as a generational classic, especially as cultural values shift ("...it may be growing into its purpose even more as a time capsule of that era." – Matt Rogers, 14:13).
• "Girls" & the Culture of Discourse: Lena shares how the reputation of "Girls" evolved, and how the initial furor around "unlikeable women" now seems "quaint" amid today’s conversations around main character syndrome and the acceptability of flawed female characters (27:04–28:01).

Notable Quote:

“People could accept...Tony Soprano...Walter White. But just a girl giving an errant hand job was truly the biggest societal problem that we had, 100%.”
—Lena Dunham (27:15)

[14:35–16:59]

Lena discusses Judd Apatow's insight that you can't know the meaning or impact of something at its premiere, only after it's existed in the world for a long while.

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2. Creating & Ending "Girls": Process, Doubt, & Growth

• Improvisation & Methods: Discussion of memorable improv moments, like the “Serendipity” line and snorting lactose powder for an on-screen cocaine scene (07:14–08:21).
• Ending the Series: Lena describes the challenges in wrapping up "Girls," her wild creative ideas (like literally skipping a season finale), and how youth and pressure create strange circumstances ("There are no art emergencies." – Lena Dunham quoting her father, 19:20).
• Emotional Distance & Growth: Lena now feels more compassion looking back at her younger, harsher self during those years of creative chaos (20:01–20:25).

Notable Quote:

“Writing the book made me realize how crazy it is to give jobs of any consequence ...to people that young.”
—Lena Dunham (19:20)

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3. Messy Characters & Rootability

• Ugly Relatability: The trio dig into why "Girls" dared to make its lead characters do ugly, sometimes unforgivable things, and how audiences react differently to those moments when the characters are women vs men (21:31–27:04).
• Rootable vs Likable: Lena describes how industry notes now focus less on "likability" and more on whether characters are "rootable," and how the world is (slowly) getting more comfortable with unfiltered female characters (27:04–28:01).

Notable Quote:

“Being likable and being rootable are two different things.”
—Lena Dunham (27:15)

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4. Friendship, Scattering, and Growing Up

• The Great Scattering: The episode delves deeply into millennial friendship, how proximity and “ride-or-die” intensity in your 20s give way to “the great scattering” of adulthood (41:16–43:23).
• Queer Kinship: Lena credits her enduring friendships with queer men for teaching her to redefine family and adulthood (45:25–45:56).

Notable Quote:

“Friendship is entropic...it’s just inevitable. And I think that’s what the book is about—a friendship sort of splitting up. That’s like the most universal thing you can write about.”
—Bowen Yang (44:42)

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5. Health, Vaping, and Self-Awareness

• Vaping Stories: Lena reveals her own vape addiction and how Matt’s recounting of his partner's (Fraser’s) vape-related health crisis inspired her to quit abruptly (65:12–68:10).
• Addiction Real Talk: The group commiserates on the ease of getting addicted (“I became a person who would, like, wake up with my vape under my pillow.” – Lena, 67:00) and congratulate each other on hard-won progress.
• Illness & Diagnosis: Lena shares the poignant story of a stranger diagnosing her Ehler Danlos Syndrome via Instagram after recognizing symptoms on "Girls" and in her writing (73:15–74:06).

Notable Quote:

“You can understand heart attack. And I’ve never understood it more than when it was happening in front of me.”
—Matt Rogers (68:19)

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6. Creative Partnership Dynamics & Therapy

• Open discussion about the emotional maintenance required for creative partnerships, differences in communication styles between queer and straight couples, and the blurred lines between friendship and creative collaboration (52:36–54:43).
• They joke about the idea of going to therapy together as podcast co-hosts ("That's why I'm sending you two to Esther Perel." – Lena, 54:59).

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7. Celebrity Encounters, Fame, and Cultural Touchstones

• Lena recounts celebrity run-ins (like nearly fainting meeting Tim Cook—10:14–10:35, making Tilda Swinton smile, and a hilarious FaceTime with Glen Powell and Judd Apatow—78:14–78:40), celebrity approach etiquette, and moments of surreal connection as once-outsider fans become industry peers.

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Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On legacy:
  “You never really...know the role that anything plays until it’s been in the world for a long time.” —Lena Dunham (14:35)

• On improvisation:
  “Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle, Lena. Sometimes...it just happened.” —Lena Dunham (07:29)

• On friendship’s impermanence:
  “I used to look another human being in the eyes and say, we will die together. I haven’t spoken to them in 30 years.” —Matt Rogers (45:17)

• On health struggles:
  “These things are so much more evil than we know. We don't even know the beginning of it. His lungs look like a 70 year old man's.” —Lena Dunham, on vaping (68:31)

• On creative relationships:
  “In a way, I look back and I'm like, that was my primary relationship.” —Lena Dunham (52:36)

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Segment Timestamps for Key Sections

• Lena’s debut and “Serendipity” improv discussion: 02:12–08:21
• Apple event, Tim Cook story: 04:54–12:07
• On “Girls” legacy and criticism: 14:13–20:25
• Unlikable vs Rootable/women on TV: 27:04–28:39
• Friendship & The Great Scattering: 41:16–45:23
• Vaping health crisis: 65:12–68:10
• Ehler Danlos diagnosis via fan DM: 73:15–75:05
• Celebrity encounter stories: 78:14–80:09
• I Don’t Think So, Honey segment: 85:39–94:06

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The Las Culturistas “I Don’t Think So, Honey” Round

• Matt’s I Don’t Think So, Honey (re: Lena’s new film star, role model):
  “I don’t think so, honey, that we’re gonna be able to handle what you’re about to do to role model…” (85:43–86:46)
• Bowen’s I Don’t Think So, Honey (chicken pot pie at Tower Bar):
  “I don’t think so, honey. More places should be like the Tower Bar at Sunset Tower and serve what? Chicken pot pie!” (88:57–90:02)
• Lena’s I Don’t Think So, Honey (quiet luxury):
  “I don’t think so, honey, quiet luxury. If I’m gonna have luxury, I want it to be loud.” (91:53–92:55)

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Guest’s Culture-Defining Moment

• Q: “What was the culture that made you say culture was for you?”
• A: “It was seeing Sarah Jessica Parker and Jane Krakowski in Once Upon a Mattress on Broadway.”
  (83:02–83:41)
• Lena shares how she “made a wallpaper” of low-res photos of SJP and internalized the lesson that “women can be funny, fun, sexy...wearing rags and screaming.”

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Tone & Style

Vibrant, honest, and playful, the episode is peppered with in-jokes, earnest appreciation, and sharp observations about the state of our culture, all delivered in the quick, referential, and affectionate language familiar to long-time Culturistas listeners.

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Final Thoughts

This unforgettable episode captures Lena Dunham at her most candid and self-aware, charting the journey from “Girls” creator to reflective memoirist, all filtered through Matt and Bowen’s signature lens: pop culture as both art and survival tool. The trio traverse fame, chaos, emotional truth, quitting vices, and what it means to find yourself—and let go—amidst the tides of change, always finding connection and, ultimately, catharsis in culture.

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For further details on individual stories or topics, refer to the timestamps provided.

Transcript

[Lena Dunham]

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.

[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

Drive daily with confidence everywhere you go. Most Americans drive 40 miles a day. Did you know that most EVs are equipped with 200 to 400 miles of range?

[Bowen Yang]

Here's the thing. They've got fewer parts, fewer repairs, and fewer headaches.

[Matt Rogers]

With hundreds of new and used EV models available today, there's an EV to fit every lifestyle in every budget. The way forward is electric. Learn [e-mail] you can't spell culturistas without R I.

[Bowen Yang]

That's right. Rhode island is the perfect place not just for the culturistas of the world, but all the other Easters, too.

[Matt Rogers]

We're talking about the food Easters, the theater Easters, the nature Easters, the luxuries does whatever you east of 4, you'll find it in the Ocean State.

[Bowen Yang]

So start packing those bags and be the best Easter you can be.

[Matt Rogers]

Rhode island, all that.

[Bowen Yang]

Plan your trip @Visit Rhode Island.com that's Visit Rhode Island.com.

[Matt Rogers]

look, man, there. Oh, I see my, oh, my.

[Bowen Yang]

Bowen, look over there.

[Matt Rogers]

Is that culture?

[Lena Dunham]

Yes.

[Bowen Yang]

Goodness.

[Matt Rogers]

Wow.

[Bowen Yang]

Las culturistas.

[Matt Rogers]

Ding dong dong.

[Bowen Yang]

Las culturistas.

[Matt Rogers]

Calling this. I just want to say, before we sort of launch into whatever this is gonna be, what's making me really happy is that we're watching our guest consume her first ever Celsius on ice in a glass. And it's a color.

[Bowen Yang]

It's a color that serendipitously matches her outfit and shoes. And speaking of the word serendipitous, I've had this vocal stim for at least 12 years. I'm sorry, I don't want to go to Serendipity and drink frozen hot chocolates with your uncle's girlfriend, who is a stewardess named Elodie. The bill that is right there in one line, a masterclass in dialogue. You build and Build and build. And oh, my. I've never forgotten that line of dialogue, among other. Among the legion of other sequences of words on that show called Girls.

[Matt Rogers]

But can I tell you another shorter one?

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, of course, Please.

[Matt Rogers]

That's a long one. Sometimes the brevity will be what hits. What do I want to be like you?

[Bowen Yang]

Like, mentally ill. Shoesh. You're cruel, drunk.

[Matt Rogers]

It's crazy. And we really had to work with Allison to try to go back into the file cabinets of her brain when she was on.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, yes.

[Matt Rogers]

Was that improvised line. It's crazy.

[Bowen Yang]

It's crazy.

[Matt Rogers]

But then you read this wonderful book, Fame Sick, and you get a glimpse into the creative process. Honestly, here's the thing. Everyone out there, you need this book. You actually need to read it. It's required reading. Not that there's gonna be a test, but consider yourself unprepared for the rest of sort of your life going forward. If you don't go out and get it.

[Bowen Yang]

It's not even. There's no test involved. It's just a book where. And I haven't had this in a while. It's one of those. It's a nodder. You're nodding every page.

[Matt Rogers]

I think I recognize this. Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

You knowingly nod at a book like this, which I. Which felt really refreshing.

[Matt Rogers]

I mean, just to say, this is obviously a huge moment in the podcast. I mean, the creator of our favorite show, the creator of our favorite words. I mean, become a pal in one of. In a true love at first sight moment. Became a pal.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, we found love in an Apple place. That's all we'll say.

[Matt Rogers]

That's all we're gonna say? That's all we're gonna say. Let's just say I have one photo. You know how. You know how, like, sometimes on your iPhone, like, one photo. Like, there's that thing of, like this day last year, or sometimes it's not even a year ago. It's just like your phone just decides pictures that it's gonna keep showing you.

[Bowen Yang]

Terrible.

[Matt Rogers]

Our guest factors in to that for me because it's just. I'll just randomly be flipping through and it's like, oh, there's a picture of me and Bo. Oh, there's a picture of me and Greta. And then there's Lena Dunham and Tim Cook. Just the two of them.

[Bowen Yang]

A gorgeous couple.

[Lena Dunham]

My nipples erect.

[Bowen Yang]

And we have to unpack this on the anniversary of Apple's 50th birthday.

[Matt Rogers]

On Apple's 50th birthday.

[Bowen Yang]

No, today. Did they. Okay, well, we'll get into this.

[Matt Rogers]

Everyone, please welcome Lena Dunham. Today is the 50th anniversary.

[Bowen Yang]

Anniversary of Apple Computer.

[Lena Dunham]

Is it really? And we're here together.

[Bowen Yang]

And we're here together.

[Lena Dunham]

Okay, so I don't know how much I can say before a drone strike happens right here, but firstly, I just want to say it's an honor to be with you.

[Matt Rogers]

Are you kidding?

[Lena Dunham]

I'm a huge fan.

[Matt Rogers]

No.

[Lena Dunham]

Huge consumer of your content.

[Bowen Yang]

Thank you.

[Lena Dunham]

I love what you do. And when we had our love at first sight moment, you said something about the podcast and I never do this. And I was like, which I'd love to be on.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

No, and that was. See, that's the kind of thing where it's like, we earmark it immediately. Cause I'm like, oh, okay, that's something that can happen.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

I was begging for it to. I was circling the building. But we spent two full and complete days together at the Apple iPhone launch.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes.

[Lena Dunham]

Which I kept saying, we're here to understand the future. I didn't know what else to say or how to say it.

[Matt Rogers]

Was that just what you were saying as a line to the people that worked there? Like, yeah, I'm here to understand the future?

[Lena Dunham]

Well, I was saying to the people who work there. And then I started to believe it, and then I started to say it to people I care about, like you. But I was like, I don't wanna be left behind. I was like, when the future comes, I wanna be there. When they're having us use the tools, I wanna be the one running the tools. And everyone was like, okay, babe, calm down. Like, you're gonna get a free iPhone. You can breathe.

[Bowen Yang]

It's got a new lens. Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

I saw you two walk in. There was a series of sort of public art arches, colorful arches. And I was standing there awkwardly, my heels digging into the sleep, and I saw you two and I screamed a scream that was like pure pleasure. It was like if you were a wolf separated from your child in a Disney movie and then you encountered them in the forest after a full story arc.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, 100%.

[Lena Dunham]

That's how it felt.

[Matt Rogers]

I will say. I was like. I said to Bo, and I was like, how gagged would you be if just to go back to, like, 2013 and be like, one day we're going to see Lena Dunham an event and be like, thank God you're here. Like, oh, my God.

[Lena Dunham]

And I couldn't believe I was just sitting here in such pleasure. Because you're better at being Alison and me than Alison and me.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, my God.

[Lena Dunham]

But I will tell you, I don't remember much, but I do know that I don't want to drink frozen hot chocolate at Serendipity with your uncle's girlfriend who's a stewardess named Elodie. Was an improv?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Are you serious?

[Lena Dunham]

Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle, Lena. Sometimes I remember we were really jacked up. It was the middle of the night. We weren't drinking Celsius, but something equivalent, and it just happened.

[Bowen Yang]

I'm gonna butcher this, because in that same line of. In that same block of script, you also say, and mind you, you're coked up. Your character, Hannah's coked up. And you looked me with your eyes and you lied to me with your eyes when you said. By not saying anything at all. Like, it's just.

[Matt Rogers]

That's. That's.

[Bowen Yang]

Of course, that's all improvised. And I'm like, but that's just your brain.

[Lena Dunham]

Well, that's so sweet. We also snorted a lot of lactose powder.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. I was wondering.

[Lena Dunham]

And you can't know what that does. Like, Andrew and I recently talked about. Really? We snorted milk.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Tons of milk off a toilet that day. And what came later just had to

[Matt Rogers]

be a sinus infection.

[Lena Dunham]

I know we didn't feel good. We were also. We were dancing in a club at. We arrived at five in the morning. So by the time we were sweaty, coked up and dancing, it was 7:30am yeah. So, like, this nightlife scene was actually us jacked up on lactose powder. 7:30am, and what happens, happens. Improving our face. Little faces. What is it that you do on RuPaul's Drag Race?

[Bowen Yang]

You dance for your lapse, for your supper. Yeah, whatever.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. That also broke open. Crop mesh, I think, for a new generation.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you so much. I remember when the shirt came out, we had amazing costume designer.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Jen. And she brought the shirt out and was like, we could do a bra with it. We could take. I was like, we're not doing anything with it.

[Matt Rogers]

No, this is tits underneath, this is tits under.

[Lena Dunham]

This is. My tits are my accessory.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And also, you don't know in your 20s how much they're gonna change. You don't know. Yeah. Your tits. And I was thinking about this recently because I have a pal who lives with me who's in her 20s, and they're just up like champagne flutes. And I just looked and I was like, take advantage. Take photos. Be topless.

[Matt Rogers]

When you're doing a TV show and they ask you if you want a bra underneath your mesh.

[Lena Dunham]

Say no, say no. Because someday you're gonna be wearing three T shirts and a sweater just to hold it back, you know?

[Bowen Yang]

So on this topic, do you want to unpack the reason why your nipples went erect next to Tim Cook?

[Lena Dunham]

It was crazy.

[Matt Rogers]

It's okay if it's attraction.

[Lena Dunham]

It was definitely like, he's got. What are we calling it? Swag. He's got Riz.

[Matt Rogers]

Whatever is going on, whatever that thing is gonna be next week.

[Lena Dunham]

But I also think, like, the panic of. You have two minutes with which to properly engage with this person. I mean, I kept saying things like, I love your products. I was saying things that I never imagined would come out of my mouth.

[Bowen Yang]

Terrible.

[Lena Dunham]

And then I looked down and, like, for the first time in 15 years, my nipples were standing at attention. And I looked at the photo, and it truly looks like one of those pictures you see of, like, a married couple that has moved to a vacation destination to get married.

[Matt Rogers]

No, I know. I have it on my phone.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, you have it on your phone.

[Matt Rogers]

This is a picture that I treasure.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, we look and I remember coming up to you and being like, I just took the picture with him. My nipples popped out, then popped right back in. Don't know why, don't know how.

[Bowen Yang]

Portrait mode.

[Lena Dunham]

He's got searing eyes.

[Matt Rogers]

Okay, so this is something I haven't seen.

[Lena Dunham]

Like, you incredibly blue, searing eyes.

[Matt Rogers]

That's. So about a few months later, I actually was at the same restaurant as him when I was in D.C. remember this, Melissa. Melissa came and we sang back up for me on my tour. We're at a restaurant.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you, Melissa, for your service.

[Matt Rogers]

Everyone goes. And Melissa knew that I had met him at that event. So the waiter comes over to our table and goes, I do have to ask you guys if you're finished, if you don't mind. I never do this. It's just that Tim Cook has your table after you, and we go, what? And I was like, not sure they were supposed to do that anyway. I'm like, yes, we'll go, we'll go, we'll go. And then someone goes, are you gonna say hi on the way out? I was like, no, I am not. And then they go, well, why not? I mean, you've met the guy once. I was like, I am not saying hello to Tim Cook on the way outta here. I was like, I don't want you

[Lena Dunham]

to look up to him. And being like, we met for two minutes in a picture line. Can you remember?

[Matt Rogers]

Everyone I was with was like, Expecting it to happen. And so they describe me running by him like he was standing at the bar. I got on the ground and basically used all my pads of all my feet and hands to, like, crawl out. And they were like. What you just did. To not say hi to him is the craziest thing we've ever seen.

[Lena Dunham]

What's crazy is if I saw him in the wild, I would never recognize him again. In my brain, he looks like Steve Jobs, right?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. Well, you're like, it can't be.

[Lena Dunham]

It can't be. But also his face, which was so clear to me in that moment. Like we'd been waiting for each other our whole lives. Gone. Disappeared into a puff of smoke.

[Matt Rogers]

No.

[Lena Dunham]

And it's interesting because we were there together and we didn't totally know. I mean, everyone was being really nice to us, but we didn't totally know what our job was.

[Bowen Yang]

No.

[Matt Rogers]

No.

[Lena Dunham]

What are we here for? What do you want from us? I like clear instructions.

[Bowen Yang]

It felt like the beginning of the Westing Game. Or like an Agatha Christie novel.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, the Westing Game.

[Lena Dunham]

Well, I love the Westing Game too. And that you kind of just shot something through me.

[Matt Rogers]

That's our project. We all do together.

[Lena Dunham]

Did they ever make a movie of the Western Game?

[Bowen Yang]

You know what?

[Matt Rogers]

I'm sure I looked this up. I think they did. Becca, can you look up if they did the Westing Game? Pre. Maybe in the late 80s, early 90s,

[Lena Dunham]

for television books that are, like, part of a genre of mysteries for children, like suspense for children. There was one that I loved. I don't know if you have ever booked the Wolves of Willoughby Chase.

[Bowen Yang]

No, tell it. What a title.

[Lena Dunham]

I didn't anything. It was, like, about a girl. I loved books about, like, a girl who is an orphan and she moves to a house and something's not quite right.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. And she gets out her little book and pencil.

[Lena Dunham]

That's exactly right. And I wanted to be that child. And the Westing Game. And also, did you like the Giver?

[Matt Rogers]

Of course. The Giver wasn't Taylor Swift in the Giver.

[Bowen Yang]

She was in the Giver.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, she was.

[Lena Dunham]

She played an important memory in the Giver.

[Matt Rogers]

She played an important memory and remember his child.

[Bowen Yang]

She plays an important memory in all of our lives.

[Lena Dunham]

Of course, I think about the Giver because she's a brunette in the Giver.

[Matt Rogers]

She is. That's why you think about it.

[Lena Dunham]

That's why I think about it is because she was a brunette with bangs. Yes. And I loved it. I love every time she asks her

[Matt Rogers]

era that doesn't get spoken of her giver era. It's rule of culture number 13. No one talks about Taylor's giver era.

[Lena Dunham]

That was so amazing. How fast. It's amazing to be on something that you're a fan of. Because I'm watching this thing I love, but I'm here.

[Matt Rogers]

Well, just to speak on that. It's funny because everyone did the girls rewatch moment and that had to feel like.

[Bowen Yang]

Which is ongoing, I feel.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, well, definitely it started, I would say, 2022. It started to really catch fire. We're all rewatching this, but I wonder how it feels to know that, like, at the time everyone was like, I don't understand how someone can be in it and capture it. But as a time capsule, it may be growing into its purpose even more as a time capsule of that era.

[Lena Dunham]

That is for me, the greatest thing. Because if we think about it, like I remember Judd Apatow once saying to me, you never really. We think the most important moment of anything's life is when it first comes out and the Internet's responding and people. But actually you don't know the role that anything plays until it's been in the world for a long time. Right. Like, we all now recognize that My so Called Life is the greatest teen show of all time. It was canceled after one season. My best friend Matt Wolf did put together a petition which was signed by over 10,000 people to try to get it back on the air. But shockingly, was it ABC? ABC didn't listen to a 15 year old head of his gay straight alliance in San Jose, California.

[Matt Rogers]

That's really the big problem.

[Lena Dunham]

And that's a big problem with television because that's who we need to be serving.

[Matt Rogers]

Because we would have had more than one season of Freaks and Geeks then too.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, of course we would have had more than one season of Enlightened. We would have. But we can't have nice things.

[Matt Rogers]

No, here's the thing. We were just talking. People are so, so much smarter than they are when they're like, hi, I'm promoting a movie and I'm behind it. It's like they walk off camera and they're like, I don't know about this.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. And then they. And even if it's a hit, sometimes they don't know about it. Because some things that hit with culture are actually hitting on like the worst parts of us.

[Matt Rogers]

Right?

[Lena Dunham]

And some things. And we now know that lots of brilliant actors have had to do things that they. So it's just an interesting thing to think. Like, there are things that hit and you go, everyone's talking about it, but what will be happening in 5, 10, 15, 20 years? And when we were making Girls, there was so much sort of feedback, probably more we had more people reviewing it than watched it, honestly.

[Bowen Yang]

And I believe this, and I agree,

[Matt Rogers]

discussion was something that was paramount.

[Lena Dunham]

Exactly. And then it's really nice when something's out of its discussion phase. And now people are just maybe getting to, like, watch it in a cozy context. And also, they don't have to be reacting to the reaction to the reaction or thinking, does this define what it feels like for me to be 24? Does this feel like it reflects, but actually can just engage with it as what it was? There's some TikTok sound where the girl's like. She's like, I don't know. I'm just being goofy. And sometimes I feel about the show, I'm like, I'm just being goofy.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And when there's that much discussion, you're like. And now I think people can maybe go like, they were just being goofy.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[Lena Dunham]

And actually that's more meaningful in a way.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, good. Because. But I think what Matt's saying is, like, you captured it while you were in it, and I think it's kind of. Not even kind of. It's completely remarkable that you were able to maintain that sort of valence throughout, despite the discourse of it's able to use the valence.

[Lena Dunham]

You just.

[Bowen Yang]

Whatever. I probably.

[Matt Rogers]

He'll always use valence and things like that.

[Lena Dunham]

It's so beautiful.

[Matt Rogers]

It's beautiful.

[Bowen Yang]

But, like, the fact that you maintained this throughout, and I was even laughing in the book where you were, like, talking about the last season, you were writing scenes that made no sense. Like, you know, Shoshana goes to this camp.

[Lena Dunham]

Shoshana goes to a nudist camp. Because ending a show is so hard. And you're like, I'm gonna really shock this. And then you're like, this isn't shocking. Shoshanna wandered down the road to a nudist camp. You also have to remember there was a lot of. I always knew where I wanted the show to end from the beginning, which is I wanted her to have a baby latching. But I was like, how do we get there? And what does that look like? And there was definitely some crawling around in the mud to arrive at. I mean, I remember just like, it was like a maniacal detective. I had like 150 index cards that I was spread I have these pictures of me sitting in a sea of index cards on my floor, just being like, what if we don't. I remember one day, I was like, okay, I have a crazy idea. We don't have a season finale. We do an episode nine and then we stop. And they were like, but that would then be the season finale. And I was like, okay. It's like my father told me a story about when he did acid for the first time, and he looked at his friend and said, what if we raise our children with no egos? And they thought that they'd, like, solved it.

[Bowen Yang]

They figured it out and they kind of did.

[Lena Dunham]

They kind of did. But you can't necessarily maintain that when you're not on a heavy dose of lsd.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, they would have to just make sure that when the baby came into the world, immediately they give them the same dose.

[Lena Dunham]

Exactly.

[Matt Rogers]

Point to the sky. See, it's a dome. This is all fake.

[Lena Dunham]

This is all fake. Do a full Truman Show. But I was having a. What if we raise our babies with no egos? What if we just forsake the season finale? Blow everybody's mind.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

They're just, it's another day. It's over. Yeah, but you can't game the system that way.

[Bowen Yang]

We all would have arrived at that same exact idea had we been show, like, creating, starring, running a show, directing episodes of the show while we were at the tender age of 25, 26, 27.

[Lena Dunham]

Definitely writing the book made me realize how crazy it is to give jobs of any consequence. And as I. Again, another quote from my father who says, there are no art emergencies.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Cause, like, you know, people love to act like they're actually like, my aunt is an emergency room doctor. Sometimes she would have to treat someone who's like, leg got caught in a subway door. That is an emergency season finale. Actually, not an emergency, but it was still a job that involved actual, like, interfacing with many people and engaging. And I just look back and I go, that is so. Like, I see people who are that age now, and I go, you should still be inside your mother's body.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes. Right. Yeah. No, that's.

[Bowen Yang]

You should be a Joey and a kangaroo.

[Lena Dunham]

You should be a Joey and a kangaroo, and no one should let you out till you're 32. And so a lot of the book was grappling with that. And what was interesting was I was so judgmental of myself at the time. And looking back, I was like, oh, my God. Like, they're definitely low points, but. But there are definitely some moments where I was like, I should have been nicer to you. You were trying so hard, and it

[Matt Rogers]

was going okay and trying. Actually trying things. I mean, there were moments in that show where I was like. I would sit perplexed with it. I remember just being a huge fan of the show. And the first season had come and gone, and then the second season happened, and there's an episode where your Hannah is at the cemetery, and she sits there and she parrots back a story and that someone else had told about their own grief to someone else. And the episode ended. And I remember being like. At the time, I was like, I didn't. I didn't like that episode. I can't believe she did that. And I didn't like that episode. And then now looking back, I'm like, no, I think I saw something true. And I think there's a testament to you putting that out there. Even at that age when, you know, discourse is really tough and you're judging yourself, there's a lot of checkpoints to get through. When you put on your lead character who's like, you know, close to yourself, doing an ugly thing. And she did a lot of ugly things and all those characters did.

[Lena Dunham]

I always forget how many ugly things she did. And then someone was like, oh, I just watched the episode. Came up to you in the street. And they're like, I just watched the episode where she goes to her boss's funeral and makes it all about herself. And I was like, she did that.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, exactly. Right.

[Lena Dunham]

You can't go to somebody's funeral that you don't know well and make it all about yourself. And I remember that being that the scene in the cemetery, firstly, I remember it cause I fainted. And then the medic said, I think you're okay because you still have rosiness in your fingernail beds. And I was like, there's still life in you.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

I think you are a medical professional. I think this. Well, on a TV set, I was like, I remember he laid me back. And he was like, rosie, nail beds, check. And I was like, pulse, check. Pills, check. I think we need to get some Gatorade in this girl's stat. And I. So that is one memory I have. But the other is I remember doing that mom monologue where she's like, my cousin had cystic fibrosis. And I had to. Which was actually a true. That story was a true story about my father's cousin. That is real and sad. That we then gave to Gabby. That we then gave to me. And I remember feeling sick doing the monologue because there were a couple things. Like, there's a scene in the first season where Hannah tries to seduce her boss, who's sexually harassing her to turn the tables and reclaim. And also try to, like, maybe get a bunch of back pay. She's like, maybe if we fuck, then he'll have to give me a ton of money. And I remember the scene and being like, who wrote this for me? Why am I doing. Why am I. Richard Mazur, a kind, talented, seasoned character actor. I'm about to go in and straddle aggressively. And then I saw him recently. Cause he came and did a part in my movie. And he was like, I haven't seen you since that straddling.

[Matt Rogers]

Since that's straddling.

[Lena Dunham]

But it was hard sometimes. Cause I was like, also, I knew that the valence was. Is it a valance? I knew that the curtain between how people perceived her and perceived me was extremely sheer.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[Lena Dunham]

So I also knew when I made those choices. And what I loved thinking about writing the book was also like, Sasha, Jemima, Alison, all have. I mean, you've met Allison. She's the most. She's hilarious and dirty, but she's also correct and polite. She wants. Everything you need to know about her is she once got tendonitis from writing too many thank you notes.

[Matt Rogers]

That reads.

[Bowen Yang]

You described her as a thank you note. And her thank you note writing life.

[Lena Dunham]

Her thank you note writing life. And she. And Zasha is incredibly smart and thoughtful, and Jemima is her own iconic Roland. And they were all so down to clown. Like, you'd go up to them and you'd be like, today, Today you are going to get your ass eaten by your friend's boyfriend and be like, all right, here we go, Here we go. The one time, I remember, we gave Allison a monologue where she was supposed to say that she'd lost her virginity at 14. And she was like, what? And I was like, yeah, she lost her virginity when she was 14. And she was like, that doesn't really square with, like, how I've been thinking about her very thoughtfully. She's like, you know, I've been playing her in one way. And Jemima came up and she's like, what would you have been doing if you knew she lost her virginity at 14? Hi, I'm Marnie. And then she did this voice of, like, the alternate Marnie who talked like this because she lost her virginity at 14. And we were just like, okay, we're not gonna Be precious about this. No, we're just gonna try it. And then she talked about losing her virginity at 14 and fucking crushed it.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

This is what's going on in my.

[Matt Rogers]

This is.

[Bowen Yang]

This is my take on what the person coming up to you saying, oh, I just saw the episode. We're about the funeral and this is. And with what Matt's saying about, like, I don't like what I just saw, and then realizing in hindsight that's me is like. I think the show kind of conveyed this better than anything else for our generation, where it's like, the person you hate the most or the person that annoys you the most would be you if they grew up and lived in your exact same circumstances.

[Lena Dunham]

100. I remember my first ever therapist shout out. Lisa Spiegel. She a truly important woman in my life. And I remember I was talking about a girl that I. I was not cool at school, and I was like, there's this one girl and I just. I can't stand her. And every time she sits near me, and she was like, do you think maybe you recognize a little bit of yourself in her? And it was like. I mean, I was nine, so it was like saying, what if we raise our kids with no egos? It blew my fucking mind. But of course. And I've always been interested in. I remember, like, the first time I saw the British Office, I was like, oh, you're allowed to do this. Like, you're allowed to celebrate characters who are making insane mistakes. And I love when a character does not. Who. You know, when you meet someone and they're like, I'm a very empathic person. And, you know, whatever comes after is not gonna be empathic. Or they say, no offense, and whatever comes after is going to offend you.

[Matt Rogers]

How do you know? I don't want to hear this then.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, 100%. Or when my brother last week started saying, can I be real for a second a lot. And I was like, no, I don't like it.

[Bowen Yang]

What are you. The other seconds.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. What was happening before and why is this happening to me now? But I've always been interested in characters who see themselves very differently than the rest of the world sees them.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[Lena Dunham]

And that gap. And it's interesting also, because people now know that you're not allowed to say. It's the same way that the Daily Mail stopped being allowed to call you fat, so they had to call you voluptuous or zaftig or whatever other synonym they could come up with for what they used to Say, which was like, messy, fat lady. And now people know that they're not supposed to be angry. If women are unlikable, there's a new word that is being used.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, what is it?

[Bowen Yang]

Give it to us.

[Lena Dunham]

That comes up in notes. Are they rootable?

[Matt Rogers]

Rootable meaning, can we root for them? Is there any world in which we could want them to succeed?

[Lena Dunham]

Correct. And I do think that is being likable and being rootable are two different things. But it was also always really interesting when Girls was on to realize that people could accept the idea of, like, Tony Soprano. They could accept the idea of Walter White. But just like a girl giving an errant hand job was truly the biggest societal problem that we had, 100%. And I think that feels very quaint to people now. And also now there's all the. Like, I have main character syndrome. I'm the main character of my own life. Like, there's sort of a celebration of this kind of, like, delirious selfishness that before was considered a major character flaw. So I think there's, like, more room in the world. It feels to me, it's funny. Cause women. Women have never had more problems, actually. But on television, there's space to wild out just a little bit more.

[Matt Rogers]

I almost feel like people actually think that they. I think people think they love and support women because they watch television with them in it, and then they convince themselves of something.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

And then the second they turn away, it's like, well, I've. I've already spent my time thinking and supporting.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

You know what I'm saying? I think it's so much more prevalent than people think.

[Lena Dunham]

And it is so interesting. I mean, they're great theorists who are looking at sort of like, the gap between what we accept in media and what we accept in the world and what we support in media and what we support in the world. But it was interesting because when we were doing Girls, it was kind of, you know, it was like. It was Obama era. Everything was gonna be okay.

[Matt Rogers]

Try it.

[Lena Dunham]

Try it. We were on our way up everything. Like, there was a. Even though, of course, there was lots of consequence in the world that I didn't have a full, complete understanding of because I was, like, inside a soundstage and didn't know what time it was. There was. It felt like the world was. We were going to a women's march. We were being sent pussy hats. Everything was happening. And now there's been a profound backtracking. I don't know if you remember something called MeToo, but I don't think it happened. Yeah, it didn't reach a lot of corners of the world. But we know that we're supposed to think that women can be naughty on tv, right?

[Bowen Yang]

That somehow sustained. It, survived that whole fucking.

[Lena Dunham]

And I want that. I want Rachel Weisz to be naughty on tv. Don't get me wrong.

[Matt Rogers]

Always.

[Lena Dunham]

That's why I'm alive.

[Matt Rogers]

No one does it better.

[Lena Dunham]

I mean, I was watching her. I mean, direct to camera. Address from Rachel Weisz. We don't deserve. We don't deserve. Also, I love how the whole time she's like, I'm old and ugly and no one will look at me. And I was like, you're the single most beautiful woman.

[Matt Rogers]

You're actually famously iconic for your. Like, I'll never forget the first time I saw her in the Mummy movies. That's like an arresting image for all time.

[Lena Dunham]

Like, she's almost more so if you're not even attracted to women because you go, what am I?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, right.

[Lena Dunham]

What am I?

[Matt Rogers]

I know I have questions and they

[Lena Dunham]

come from you, Ms. Vice, but that being said, yeah, she's. She's. She's an iconically beautiful woman. But at the same time, any iconically beautiful woman who is over 50 is still dealing with these same things.

[Bowen Yang]

But it's so funny to bring up.

[Lena Dunham]

Except for jlo.

[Bowen Yang]

Except for who? Jlo, naturally.

[Matt Rogers]

And now a quick break from our sponsor, Vital Proteins.

[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

Right now, you can get 20% off your next order by going to vitalproteins.com and using promo code LASCULCHURISTAS2.0 at checkout.

[Matt Rogers]

Huge. Thanks again to our sponsor, Vital Proteins.

[Bowen Yang]

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. It's weigh day at Wayfair. From April 25th through the 27th, you can score the best deals in home, like, up to 80% off with free shipping on everything.

[Matt Rogers]

Wayfair makes it easy to find exactly what fits your style and needs, from furniture and decor to home improvement and outdoor essentials. And it's all on sale during weigh day.

[Bowen Yang]

Upgrade your space with quality pieces that work within your budget. And the best part? Everything ships fast and free during plus

[Matt Rogers]

you can shop with Wayfair Verified AKA your shortcut to the good stuff. Their team of product specialists vet everything by hand using a 10 point quality inspection so you know you're getting a quality piece no matter your budget.

[Bowen Yang]

That's important to me. Wayfair makes it easy to bring your home's unique style to life, whether it's mid century modern, farmhouse, contemporary or eclectic. It can even help with outdoor prep with plenty of outdoor furniture, rugs and patio decor options to choose from.

[Matt Rogers]

Upgrade your home with accent pieces, functional decor and more.

[Bowen Yang]

Wayfair makes it simple to narrow down to exactly what works for your style

[Matt Rogers]

and budget with features like reviews, filters and visual tools that help you find

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the right fit and installation is a breeze. They even have options for installation services.

[Matt Rogers]

Wayday is the sale to shop the best deals in home. We're talking up to 80% off with fast and free shipping on everything. Head to Wayfair.com April 25th through the 27th the Shopway Day. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home Chime is changing the way people bank with fee free and smarter banking built for you.

[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Lena Dunham]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services a secured Chime, Visa credit card and MyPay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. myPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+status only. Otherwise 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms.

[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

At this point it's less award winning cruise line and more do we just engrave their name on the trophy already? They've won so many travel awards the ships might sweep our culture.

[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

With hundreds of new and used EV models available today, there's an EV to fit every lifestyle and every budget. The way forward is electric. Learn [e-mail] But I feel like you

[Bowen Yang]

just had this locus of chaos happening around you around the time of like this quote unquote reckoning with MeToo. Where it's like the show ends, this relationship is on the outs. Like all of these things about your body are sort of coming to light for you. Like that was my takeaway from the book was just like, oh, how are you writing this within such clear, gorgeous detail while you're talking about how you are in this long dissociative state and how you've grown up with these little flashes of dissociation, like hospital feeling. You're like hospital feeling. Thank you for something is going on with me and I'm ignoring my basic needs while I'm making the show in the name of ambition and all these Things. And I have to prove something right about the way the world sees me and sees the show now that the dust is settled. I hope you're so proud of everything.

[Lena Dunham]

That is a beautiful thing to say, and thank you. And I think the thing that was really lovely about writing the book was I had a really long time to do it. I mean, I wrote my first book in eight months. I wrote this book in eight years,

[Matt Rogers]

which we also loved.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you.

[Matt Rogers]

Love not that Kind of Girl.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you so much. And I don't only want. I didn't want to do it for the sake of, you know, there's. I've been asked to do, like, do a Girls Rewatch podcast, get together with the girls. And I mean, people love nostalgia, and I love nostalgia. And, like, do I want to watch the whole Cast of O.C. respond to episodes of the O.C.

[Matt Rogers]

yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes, I do. Tate Donovan, come back to me, Tate Donovan. I wanna watch Tate Donovan watch anything. But I'm interested in, like, forward motion and forward progression. And so I haven't. Maybe there will be a time when I go, I'd like to live watch every episode of Girls, but I haven't gotten there yet.

[Bowen Yang]

That's okay.

[Lena Dunham]

But I only wanted to write the book if I felt like I had something to say about the larger machine in which women are working, in which people are working, about the larger. I do think that Hollywood is a microcosm, and it reflects the way the industry works. The way that we see people reflects things that exist in a lot of parts of the world. Because it's like, where the center. It's interesting because Hollywood is this very kind of comparatively small industry where we have chosen to center our attention. It's a distraction, it's indulgence, but it also has something bigger to say about the way that we live. And so I only wanted to write the book if I felt like I had something to say about all of that and about. While also being hopefully thoughtful about the fact that, like, a tiny, thousand tiny violins play for the girl who's like, my TV show was too hard. But so thank you for saying that. And I. It was interesting to realize how much I did. I had always had. I talk about in the book. I'd always had dissociative episodes throughout childhood. The more that my life picked up and the more stress was involved, the more they happened. But I think at the time I thought ignoring your basic needs was correct. I thought, like, if you're really good at being a person, you can suppress and override Everything that you need in order to be comfortable for the. And, you know, we've all been sent a million signals about what ambition, what's important, what ambition means, what, you know, who we have to be in this sort of. In, I'm about to say under capitalism. Send me to jail. But. And so to capitalist jail. Yeah, send me to capitalist jail.

[Matt Rogers]

Private prison.

[Lena Dunham]

Send me to a private prison.

[Bowen Yang]

Sorry.

[Lena Dunham]

Where they'll treat me the way I've always treated myself. But I want to tell you that something is happening inside me. Not a bad way, good way. But I just kind of like. My nipples aren't erect, but I did stand at attention.

[Matt Rogers]

You felt the frisson?

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. Is there a moment when you're drinking your Celsius or you go, it's on.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. You're starting to buzz.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. It's a little bit like when you try drugs with friends for your first time and you go, is it working on you? Is it working on you?

[Matt Rogers]

It's working.

[Lena Dunham]

It's working. And also because I'm sober and now, thanks to you, this one vape free.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, is this where we. Is this where we. Entree into this discussion. I was just gonna say one more. Before we do that, I just want to say the one thing about girls that so much of it terrified me at the time because I was like, I think I'm feeling uncomfortable. Cause it's me. A lot of it was Marnie. I.

[Lena Dunham]

Now, are you a Marnie?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

What are you?

[Bowen Yang]

I think I'm. I'm probably a show.

[Lena Dunham]

I was gonna say that.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And you know, I've been public about the fact that I'm a Shosh.

[Matt Rogers]

You're a Shosh.

[Bowen Yang]

I think you told us this. Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

I'm a Shosh.

[Matt Rogers]

You're a Shosh.

[Lena Dunham]

I've grown into a shoesh.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. It's kind of like. Not to invoke, but it's like with the Hogwarts houses, my whole thing was like, listen, I was born a Gryffindor.

[Lena Dunham]

Yep.

[Matt Rogers]

In my 20s, I was a Slytherin. Right. Now I'm a Hufflepuff. I will die a Ravenclaw. You know what I mean? Like, it's like. That's sort of what it is. It feels like it's like that with the girls. Girls as well.

[Lena Dunham]

Well, like in high school, I was a Charlot.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Then I turned into a Samantha.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[Lena Dunham]

Had a moment thinking I was a Carrie. And I will be a Miranda for the rest of my life.

[Matt Rogers]

100%.

[Lena Dunham]

But I guess, and even maybe up to the part where she gets together with Che, you know?

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

I think we can't rule it out.

[Lena Dunham]

My husband is maybe a Che.

[Matt Rogers]

Uh huh.

[Bowen Yang]

Uh huh.

[Lena Dunham]

He doesn't wanna hear that.

[Bowen Yang]

Who does? He's fingering you in the kitchen.

[Lena Dunham]

It could happen.

[Bowen Yang]

I don't mean to talk about your marriage. I'm sorry.

[Lena Dunham]

When you said it, I was almost like, let's call him. Like, I don't know. I'd love to talk about my marriage. You know, we're five years in, things really settle in.

[Matt Rogers]

They're simmering, I guess. What was the big pull for me at the end when I was like, really sitting with it? And in the rewatch too, I confirmed, I was like, wow, you don't stay friends with everyone forever. And the fact that it.

[Lena Dunham]

Mel Robbins calls it the great Scattering.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, the Great scattering. She does call it that. But that whole last season is kind of about, like, them realizing that. I imagine, like, you know what I mean? Like, they're moving into their different lives. Like all of a sudden there's something solidifying here. And you didn't know it was coming now, but it is coming now. And this sadness that comes with that, not even the acceptance, the idea that you might have to accept it. And that I think is one of the truest things about the show.

[Lena Dunham]

I don't know about you, but I held on really tight. I was really scared for the great scattering. I held on. I mean, I think my friends and I talk to each other in our twenties. If I look back, it's like people in a relationship, it's like we're act. It's like, I feel like it's been a little strange lately and you're not responding to me the way. And it's like, now, I would never say that to a friend in a fucking million years. Because I'm like, you've got a big complicated life. We're all trying to just get through this thing and it's what happens. And, you know, the show was also interesting because it was all about these friendships. But I was also literally always on set. So the friendships I talked about this, the friendships that it was about, were then affected by the fact that I wasn't around. And then it was this big. It was like I went to sleep one day and then. Or like, stepped into Hannah's apartment one day. And then I got out when I was 30 and was like, I'm back, guys. And they were all like, where pregnant? Yeah, like, you are looking for a boyfriend on Delancey Street. We're pregnant.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And I was like, anybody wanna hear about my hysterectomy? And they're like, we are wearing clogs in Brooklyn together. And I remember feeling like going to visit my friends and being like, I'm that weird aunt lady that comes in and she's like, I've brought you guys scarves. I was.

[Matt Rogers]

Well, I was traveling. And you know what that means.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes.

[Matt Rogers]

Little gifts.

[Lena Dunham]

Gift for everyone. My mom had a friend. My mom has a lot of wonderful eccentric friends. But I remember she had one friend who didn't have kids who came over once because she wanted to take some photos of our hairless cat to work into a video art piece naturally. And she was wearing, like, full Issey Miyake pleats, please. And I saw a tattoo on her hand. And she was like, I loved her partially. Cause she was the only chubby woman that I really knew. Cause downtown was not rife with those. But also, she was wearing Issey Miyake pleats, please. And I said, I like your tattoo. And she said, do you wanna see my others? And she dropped her pants. And she had, like, a full constellation of all of the constellations on her big, beautiful ass.

[Matt Rogers]

The universe on her ass.

[Lena Dunham]

And I was like, that's what I wanna be. I would never drop my pants in front of a child.

[Bowen Yang]

No, but I want that to be the.

[Matt Rogers]

But if you did, you'd be her.

[Lena Dunham]

If I did. That was a different time. But I do. I got comfortable with the idea of, like, I'm gonna come in to take a picture of your hairless cat for a video art piece. And you're gonna say. And you're gonna say, what's that tattoo? And I'm gonna say, I've made some mistakes.

[Bowen Yang]

And it's just a matter. I've made some mistakes. It's just a matter of if your friends want to stick around for that. You know What I mean?

[Lena Dunham]

100%.

[Bowen Yang]

I think the show Girls is about a friendship, a group of friends sort of. I mean, friendship is entropic. It's like. It's just inevitable. And I think that's what the book is about. It's about a friendship sort of. Sort of splitting up. And that's kind of. That's like the most universal thing you can write about.

[Lena Dunham]

I remember once saying to my mom, like, it's so sad. I used to know all these people that I don't know anymore. And she's like, that's called being alive.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. Living.

[Lena Dunham]

Like, she was like, have you ever heard of, like, Judith Garrigan. And I was like, no. And she's like, well, she was my best friend. Till you were three.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And then she drank a lot. There's. That's a name I made up on the spot.

[Matt Rogers]

I used to look another human being in the eyes and say, we will die together. I haven't spoken to them in 30 years.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes.

[Bowen Yang]

He's talking about me.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. By the way. Correct.

[Matt Rogers]

We don't speak outside of this. We say they're representatives.

[Lena Dunham]

And the thing about whether your friends want to stick around for that, like, that's one of the reasons I think I've had such prolonged and beautiful friendships with queer men is because since my life didn't necessarily conform to some of the milestones that I thought it would.

[Matt Rogers]

Right.

[Lena Dunham]

Being friends with people who had a different idea about what family and adulthood could mean was, like, deeply important to me.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. There was commonality there where you may have tried to find it somewhere else.

[Lena Dunham]

I thought that I was supposed to be. And by the way, I love all those women, and they are still my friends. But I thought I was supposed to be in Bushwick, but have moved out of the smaller place and into the townhouse and be wearing the clogs. And actually, I was supposed to be at the Esalen Resort in the hot springs with a buff acupuncturist.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, of course.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes. Talk about the vaping.

[Lena Dunham]

Shout out to Russell.

[Bowen Yang]

Shout out to Russell.

[Matt Rogers]

I just. Yeah, I just feel like. Just in terms of, like, the way you write character, it's like, obviously there's a couple huge. The book is really about, like, relationships, and there's two relationships that you just. You lose by the end of the book. But what I wanted to say was you've always created some of the, like, best characters of our generation, but the way that you write these people in your life, it's, like, such a beautiful thing, a testament to the place that they held in your life. And I feel like if you have anything in you, and I'm sure you do, I'm positive you do, which is, like, nervous about how they're gonna receive it, which, of course you are going

[Lena Dunham]

to, because, of course, whenever you make something, you make it for, like, two people. And they're probably the two people who won't even look at it. That's life.

[Matt Rogers]

But the thing is, the way you've written them is so beautiful, because what I love about what you do, even if sometimes you were fighting with yourself because you might feel a different way about these two people on any given day, it's like, it feels like you always held true to. I'm going to try and 360 flesh this person out as much as you can. Because, you know, with these relationships like Jenny and Jack, you get a sense of both their humor, you get a sense of both their positive oddities. You get a sense of them on all of their best days.

[Lena Dunham]

They're the two funniest, most special, most defining relationships of 20 to 30. I mean, your first romantic relationship, where you feel deeply understood is like the most precious thing that can ever exist. You're like, oh, I thought I really had a crush on that guy in 10th grade. But this is a whole. The first time you make a life with someone, the first real adult best friend you have. And I hoped that I could show why I fell in love with them and also that it couldn't. I was quoting Casey Musgraves to you earlier saying that when she got divorced, she said, it's a soul connection that didn't work out. And that doesn't, I think, like love is. I think if you love someone really deeply. Firstly, we know that if when two people get divorced or something and they're like, I fucking hate them, you're like, that's because you were obsessed with them and your obsession had to. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. And therefore it had to transmute into something. And my goal has always been not to have that transmute into something negative. And also, if I didn't feel that deep love for them, I'd have to do this, like, grand erasure of all these memories. And I remember I dated one person after my breakup and it was like a quick. It was one of those four month, like four months that could have been 50 years. And afterwards I deleted all the photos. And it's the one time I've done that. And I regret it so much because it's like there's this hole in my life that I just. In this moment of rash. Maybe you can call Tim Cook and he can get them back. Yeah, honestly, he's got them.

[Matt Rogers]

I did the same thing. I did it with. I did it with text messages and a lot of photos. And I go back and forth now on whether or not that was the right thing to do.

[Lena Dunham]

It was the right thing for you in the moment because you knew that you were not. You could not trust yourself with them.

[Matt Rogers]

Because I was obsessing.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes.

[Matt Rogers]

And I think that, like you were

[Lena Dunham]

self harming through nostalgia.

[Matt Rogers]

That's really what it was. And I knew in the moment that that's what it had become. And so I was like, I think in order to set myself free from this, I have to do this. But as someone who does, you know, see value in looking back and being like, oh, and also just like the way you talk positively and the way you draw up what it feels like to finally get comfortable in a relationship, like, actually made me look back on, like, one particular ex that I, you know, kind of have exclusively, like, hard feelings about.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

And reading what you wrote about, like an old relationship and I was like, oh, like, one good thing I can say is, like, I really liked, like, being silly with me. Like, I was thinking something when I was reading your words. It's like, oh, that person. When someone sees you, silly.

[Lena Dunham]

What's so funny?

[Matt Rogers]

Like, the Moomin of it all.

[Lena Dunham]

The Moomin of it all the names

[Matt Rogers]

that you give each other and like, you know, it's like you can't replicate that.

[Lena Dunham]

And I ran. I was once just. I was at the Toronto Film Festival, one of the places that I've been in my life. I don't know what to say. And I ran into my. I was with my husband and he was watching and in this totally angelous way, he was like, you guys were being so funny together.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And you just get back into this, like, in a way, when you've had a long term relationship with someone, especially through a very pivotal moment in your life, there's things that they will only like. There's certain facts about my aunts particular, my aunts Bonnie and Susan, who are very important, complex female characters. And I will. Something will happen with Bonnie and Susan will be like, this is the only person who could possibly understand how funny this is.

[Matt Rogers]

And do you reach out?

[Lena Dunham]

Sometimes I think that it's. I don't like to have a blockade and I, you know, I try to do it in appropriate doses. I'm not like, I'm not like, hey, came across this photo of us really made me think. I think that's aggressive.

[Matt Rogers]

That's aggressive to a married man from a married woman, psychotic.

[Lena Dunham]

And I'm totally capable of that. I just have to reel it in.

[Matt Rogers]

We've seen the show, you know, like,

[Lena Dunham]

there's a part of me that could 100% be like, there's funny things that you go, this is a value that we remember this. And it's. I remember when my father's parents died and then his brother died and he was like, there's nobody else who remembers what it was like to be in my family. First he kept Saying I'm an orphan. And I was like, okay, you're 70, so I don't know if you get to claim that title. Everyone wants a title these days.

[Matt Rogers]

I know. True.

[Lena Dunham]

And that's the thing is it's really beautiful to have people who remember, even if they remember differently. And my goal in the book was to show how much they meant and how much love there is that still exists for them. Will also. And I'm sure that someone could give their account and it would be the same events, but with an extremely different. I mean, that's the amazing thing about the world is, like, we're all looking through our own eyes. I'm on acid.

[Bowen Yang]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Matt Rogers]

But I think we're on acid, too.

[Lena Dunham]

I mean, like, it's called Celsius.

[Matt Rogers]

It's called Celsius. But there was also so much in, like, your. Your working relationship and close, close, close friendship with Jenny that, like, I texted Bowen and I was like, are you.

[Bowen Yang]

This is about relevant stuff.

[Matt Rogers]

It's about relevant things.

[Lena Dunham]

Well, I think the thing that I've learned. And I mean, those creative relationships that were so intense, they were like marriages. They were like all these. It was like I was. It was like I was in a polyamorous relationship. I mean, it was. And in a way, I look back and I'm like, that was my primary relationship. And then I had a secondary relationship, which was a boyfriend, and then a tertiary relationship, which was my dad. And so that is. That's a wild thing to look back on. And creative relationships, you two know really well, require just as much, if not more, emotional maintenance. Like, when you're married to a straight man, there's so much that you just don't even have to say.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

My brother was like, it must be so relaxing to be married to a straight guy. Cause they, like, are not really picking up on anything. You don't have to. Like, it's like when I've heard, and

[Matt Rogers]

nothing means more than it does.

[Lena Dunham]

That's exactly right. Whenever I'm around queer couples, they're like, you moved your eyebrows or you're feeling a little bit destabilized. And, like, you can just hide in your own house for days with a straight man.

[Matt Rogers]

The studying of punctuation. Forget it. It doesn't mean anything if a queer man or woman is texting you in a punctuation way, mechanically, the order I'm like, oh, something is deeply wrong.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, yeah, no, my husband will just send a text that he doesn't. It's just one word. Inexplicable word. Cause he hasn't looked back. And I will look back at a text and be like, did I say what I meant to say? The amount of texts I edit, he's

[Matt Rogers]

sending out word and meant to send the rest but didn't.

[Lena Dunham]

Last thing, he just sent me a picture of a broken window in our house with zero explanat. And I was like, were we robbed? And he was like, no, no, it was a wind issue. And I was like, you need to lead with that. But in the relationship with another woman, specifically, the amount that you're picking up, it's like this insane. It's like whatever's traveling between machines at the Apple headquarters, it's like this insane level of information and subtlety and. And also in creative relationships, you're in each other's heads in a different way.

[Matt Rogers]

You've been your smartest with that person.

[Lena Dunham]

They know you're dumbest. They've been your smartest. You've been your dumbest in the middle of the night. You've been your most petulant. You've been your most elegant. You've been your most brave. All of it. It's really amazing. And I think they require a very specific kind of care and maintenance. And that's why I'm sending you two to Esther Perel.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, brother. All right, everybody. We need to discuss a vacation that's not just a vacation, it's a statement.

[Matt Rogers]

Virgin voyages. Adults, yes. A child free sanctuary at sea. It's giving serenity. It's giving. Sexy European summer. It's giving. I deserve this.

[Bowen Yang]

They're sailing the Caribbean and the Med, obviously. But now they've added nyc, the west coast and Alaska. So whether you want golden hour off California or full cinematic glacier core main character energy. They said range.

[Matt Rogers]

And the awards. At this point, it's less award winning cruise line and more. Do we just engrave their name on the trophy? Already they've won so many travel awards, the ships might sweep our culture.

[Bowen Yang]

Awards over 20 eateries, Epic Entertainment, fitness classes, Wi fi, all included. Luxury without the nickel and diming.

[Matt Rogers]

Virgin voyages.

[Bowen Yang]

Sailors, consider yourselves called. Imagine never buying gas again. EVs are as easy to charge as your phone and perfect for everyday life.

[Matt Rogers]

Drive daily with confidence everywhere you go. Most Americans drive 40 miles a day. Did you know that most EVs are equipped with 200 to 400 miles of range?

[Bowen Yang]

Here's the thing. They've got fewer parts, fewer repairs, repairs and fewer headaches.

[Matt Rogers]

With hundreds of new and used EV models available today, there's an EV to fit every lifestyle and every budget. The way forward is electric. Learn [e-mail] when the afternoon slump hits, everything feels like an uphill battle.

[Bowen Yang]

Pure Leaf shows up for you in those moments when breaks are needed most but rarely taken. Sometimes you just need to take a moment to yourself, slow down and enjoy some pure leaf so you can reset and keep performing at your best.

[Matt Rogers]

Pure Leaf is available in a variety of flavors, including classic, sweetened and unsweetened, as well as new zero sugar sweet tea and the fan favorite raspberry.

[Bowen Yang]

Bring yourself back with Pure Leaf, a real brewed, naturally caffeinated iced tea to help you take on what's next. Time for a tea break. Time for a Pure Leaf.

[Matt Rogers]

You can't spell culturistas without R I.

[Bowen Yang]

That's right. Rhode island is the perfect place not just for the culturistas of the world, but all the other Easters too.

[Matt Rogers]

We're talking the food Easters, the theater Easters, the nature Easters, the luxury Stas. Whatever you're in Easter for, you'll find it in the Ocean State.

[Bowen Yang]

So start packing those bags and be the best Easter you can be.

[Matt Rogers]

Rhode island, all that.

[Bowen Yang]

Plan your trip@Visit Rhode Island.com that's Visit

[Matt Rogers]

Rhode Island.com during the therapy scene, I was like. Because we've talked, like, at. At particular moments there have been like, well, maybe we should see a therapist, a counselor or a therapist, like. Or someone that. And then we land on like, mediator. You know what I mean? It's like those things where the relationship needs something but you're not ready to say what kind of person. And then you're kind of filtering through the sand of like, well, what is the difference between these two?

[Lena Dunham]

And you're like, maybe it should just be a friend who likes us both to talk it through.

[Bowen Yang]

But then that. Oh, just to save on the explanation, just.

[Lena Dunham]

You can. But. But there is something. I mean, also going to therapy with somebody that you work with is a big choice because you go, okay, I'm really proclaiming the significance of this dynamic because we're in a therapist's office together. So you two have never been to therapy together yet?

[Bowen Yang]

No, no, We've gotten far along in the process. But then inevitably things pop up and we're like, okay, we gotta address this and we will be together. And we are. We can work this out ad hoc as necessary.

[Lena Dunham]

We can work this out amongst ourselves until.

[Bowen Yang]

Until we really need to.

[Matt Rogers]

Like, my therapist says she doesn't think

[Lena Dunham]

we need it, by the way, I trust that.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

And also, it seems to me as a passionate viewer that you're doing fine. I'm not picking up on any tension right now.

[Bowen Yang]

It's not like, okay, great.

[Matt Rogers]

What I will say is that whenever there is a period of tension, it does break and it blows. And we're always literally 50 times better afterwards. I sometimes wish it didn't have to get there. But I also think that we get better at communicating every time. And as we know, that's what it is all about.

[Lena Dunham]

Well, also, it is all about that. And I don't know about you, I am extremely conflict avoidant. Except for I saw.

[Matt Rogers]

Don't love it.

[Lena Dunham]

I don't love it. I saw a meme that was like, this man did something. And he's about to see the woman that only my father knows. And that's truly. I think if you have a. As a woman, if you have a comfortable relationship with your dad. I have yelled in a way that's blown the hair back on his head.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, forget it.

[Lena Dunham]

And I can't do it with. And he said to me before, he's been like, you need to go in there and act like you act with me like a fucking bitch. But it's really hard. And I think one of the reasons I love writing conflict, I've never been in a four way scream off. Like happened at the beach house. I would pass out, I would dissociate. I would go to another plane of existence.

[Matt Rogers]

I remember the first time it happened with you and Allyson in, I guess it was the penultimate episode of One.

[Lena Dunham]

You are the wound.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, you are the wound.

[Lena Dunham]

Bruce Caplan's great line. You are the wound. And I remember doing it and feeling sick even doing the scene. Cause I was like, I don't want to yell at you like this. I love you.

[Bowen Yang]

Body doesn't know the difference. Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

No. And you're like, this feels horrible. But then also it's so fun to do because you're like, this is a world in which I somehow feel comfortable screaming in my friend's face and telling her all these things that I used to always say to, like, anyone who would listen. I'd be like. And then I was like. And then I was like. And they'd be like, did you actually say any of that stuff? And I was like, no. I was like.

[Matt Rogers]

I was like, I wear the words of the same. Oh, no, you're always. You're always in. You're always like, truly, truly, truly. Like a Cate Blanchett performance. In your mind with someone else. Or like Shonda rhymes on the best seasons of Grey's. Like turning to someone and being like, I'm giving it to you. Exactly. And I can feel proud of the way I express myself.

[Lena Dunham]

One of the great moments of my life, despite the fact that my wig on Scandal was not ideal, is that I delivering a Shonda Rhimes monologue. And it was like, yes, I am a woman who loves sex, but am I a slut? No. And it was like delivering it to beautiful Kerry Washington all my might. And then, of course, I had to get my throat slit. Cause I was a slut.

[Matt Rogers]

You died on that?

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. Huck killed me.

[Matt Rogers]

Huck killed you for the sin of being a slut?

[Bowen Yang]

Slit because you were a slut?

[Lena Dunham]

Huck killed me because I was about to kill someone else. Oh, well, then who was trying to kill me?

[Matt Rogers]

Getting killed by Huck is hot, though.

[Bowen Yang]

Damn.

[Lena Dunham]

It was amazing. I had a backpack of blood, and then they made this thing, and suddenly there was, like, a man who pulled a thing, and blood squirted from my neck.

[Bowen Yang]

That's so fun.

[Matt Rogers]

Have you died on screen?

[Bowen Yang]

No. I want to so badly.

[Lena Dunham]

I've died twice. Twice In Scandal and in American Horror Story.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, yes, the dreams. I mean, those are the pieces.

[Lena Dunham]

And when I died in American Horror Story, I rotted from the inside. And what it involved was, I'm supposed to have maggots in my eyes. So they glued my eyes shut and covered them in white rice. And then there was a PA who's this person deserved. I mean, whoever you are, I couldn't see you. So I'm sorry, but I'm gonna speak directly to you. Thank you for what you did. Yeah, I want to thank you. You led me around by the back so gently all day long, making sure I didn't trip over any scenery, while I rotted from many angles.

[Matt Rogers]

There's a guy for everything. As you say in the book.

[Bowen Yang]

There's a guy for everything.

[Lena Dunham]

There's a guy for everything.

[Matt Rogers]

Speaking of dying, but not the vaping. Okay, what do you want to say? Here.

[Lena Dunham]

Here's what I want to say. We're on a text, Jane.

[Matt Rogers]

We are.

[Lena Dunham]

Do you want to revo what it's called?

[Bowen Yang]

It's called life is so. Which is a quote.

[Lena Dunham]

Is just so.

[Bowen Yang]

Is it just so, which is a word. Which is another gorgeous turn of phrase by Ms. Lena Dunham.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you so much. I believe. Because we were at Apple, and I just went, life is just so. And then you created our text chain, and then Life is so. It's just so. So where on life is just so. And I just. I like sometimes if I feel like they're too far, I just like to pop in and it's the best appreciated. Remind them that I'm there. And I said, how are you? And you let me know that you had been going through an experience with someone you were dating. Who? Fraser. I'm allowed to say it.

[Matt Rogers]

No, no, please. We can bring. We can invoke Fraser.

[Lena Dunham]

So Frase had an incident that. A vaping induced lung infection. Evil.

[Matt Rogers]

So basically what happened was. And some people might not know this, but so Fraser. Fraser was. He was a vape artist.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes.

[Matt Rogers]

And like so many out there.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

And basically the. The cartridge, essentially, like this can happen when you're sucking on that.

[Lena Dunham]

And listen, I'm gonna look at the camera again. Listen to this, man.

[Matt Rogers]

The, like oil from the vape cartridge can basically leak into your lungs and it's poison. And so when we were at BravoCon, and I can say this because he has said all of it and this is all about his health and it's public and I would never share anything if he hadn't been public about it. But we were at Bravo High School

[Lena Dunham]

is medical record records.

[Matt Rogers]

Melissa and I were there, and we were all there together. I was actually announcing that the culture wars are coming back. He was obviously there for below deck. It was exciting. And then fun moment.

[Lena Dunham]

We're a power couple. We're a Bravo con.

[Matt Rogers]

You know, I wasn't even going with the idea of, like, and we're gonna take a photo on the carpet. He want to take a picture together. I was like, let's do it. I put it on my Instagram. Then all of a sudden, that very weekend, people were like, oh, Matt and Fraser are dating. As that was happening.

[Lena Dunham]

So intense.

[Matt Rogers]

And I know this is going to sound dramatic. He had a heart attack in front of him.

[Lena Dunham]

Doesn't sound dramatic.

[Bowen Yang]

It's true.

[Lena Dunham]

It's traumatic is what it is.

[Matt Rogers]

And I feel like what people don't know is it's like, if you know, you obviously know because it's horrifying and it's hard to explain, but you don't know. A heart attack is happening every time. It's like he had very intense chest pains and, like, couldn't get comfortable and, you know, was short of breath and had to bail on the whole night with us. And we checked in on him later and it was ongoing. And so I'm thinking, like, is this stress and anxiety? Whatever we find out Much later, after tests come in that essentially because of this poison that got in his lungs, he had what was the equivalent of a heart attack. Insane. And it was really bad. And we were in the hospital until 5, 5:30 in the morning. We really had only been dating for about three months, which is also really

[Lena Dunham]

intense because it certainly u haul lesbians things up a bit.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, 100%. And so we were already like really enjoying being together and. And then there was this health stuff that entered and so that like accelerated things. And, you know, now where we're at is he was, he's off, I can't say where, but he's, you know, creating.

[Lena Dunham]

He's at a secret tropical location.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, he's creating the television program many people like. And I'm gonna see him soon. But while he's been gone and I've been sort of busy doing my own thing, we kind of did like take a little bit of space just because of how intense everything had gotten and like personal things and you had to

[Lena Dunham]

go into caretaker mode and he grappling with this terrifying change to his body and it's really intense. And you shared just the littlest. Thank you for sharing. And you shared just a littlest snippet with me.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. And I didn't know you had been addicted to the stuff.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, when we were at Apple, I didn't have my vape. Cause I was trying to be elegant and do you remember we got in the car, I was like sweating, like, I was like, can someone get a gas station? Can someone find a gas station?

[Matt Rogers]

Oh my God, we too.

[Bowen Yang]

Stop.

[Lena Dunham]

Because I had been off the vape for like 24 hours and I was losing my mind. So I didn't. I was a L I L V lil a late in life vapor.

[Matt Rogers]

Late in life vapor.

[Lena Dunham]

I started vaping on the set of a little television show called Industry because.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, because you were directress.

[Lena Dunham]

I was directress of the pilot. But also it was a. It was in Wales. People love to party in Wales. I had been.

[Matt Rogers]

Don't. I know about English people.

[Lena Dunham]

You know about English people. Hello, Fraser.

[Matt Rogers]

They love sucking those things.

[Lena Dunham]

They love sucking those things. And a friend was, oh, you don't drink, you don't smoke, you're sober. You know what this is? This, it tastes like candy. It doesn't do anything to you except put you in a great mood. Like, literally it was handed to me like it was a ring pop.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. How they market it.

[Bowen Yang]

And it looks like a toy.

[Lena Dunham]

It looks like a toy. It lights up, it makes noises And I went, great. Am I anxious all the time? Sure. Do I like to do something with my hands? Absolutely. And I became a person who would, like, wake up with my vape under my pillow. And I was not proud of it. I was embarrassed about it. I used to like, like hide it in my sleeve during meetings. I mean, it was really became like a pacifier. And I had this. I stopped. I started. I'm also a chronically ill person. I have no business. I mean, I have practically no business drinking Celsius. This is the craziest thing I've done in months.

[Bowen Yang]

We're so sorry.

[Lena Dunham]

No, I love it.

[Matt Rogers]

New vice unlocked.

[Lena Dunham]

Yep. But I was in this on off relationship. I stopped. I started for one minute. I was like, you know what would be healthier than vaping rolled cigarettes? That's insane. But I was married to an English man, so.

[Matt Rogers]

Right, right, right.

[Lena Dunham]

And he quit. And I still couldn't. It was. And I kept. I was in a shame cycle with the vape. And I was sitting there just sucking on my vape, texting my boys. And you said this. And I, Because I am dramatic, I literally took the vape and I dropped it into a cup of water so that I couldn't retrieve it. And I went, today's the day it stops. And I've not taken a puff since. It's been.

[Bowen Yang]

You're incredible.

[Lena Dunham]

Thank you so much. But you did that for me. Because everyone else is like popcorn lung. It's a little abstract. We don't know what happens.

[Matt Rogers]

No, you can understand heart attack. And I've never understood it more than when it was happening in front of me.

[Lena Dunham]

And also I could feel the urgency. And you said to me, I'll never forget you. Go. These things are so much more evil than we know.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

We don't even know the beginning of it. His lungs look like a 70 year old man's. And I just went, I want no part of this. And I have to say, the first week. It was the week of Thanksgiving and my family had all chosen to assemble without me. Do with that, but you will.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, okay.

[Lena Dunham]

No. They were on various little ships.

[Matt Rogers]

And did you feel yourself Phantom grab?

[Lena Dunham]

All day, every day I'd reach for it in my pocket. But I spent the week alone sweating it out, which needed to happen because I am generally a pretty. I have my issues, but I'm a good mood girl. Like, I don't take my moods out on other people. I was raised in a house where it was like, if you were in a bad mood, you better Turn yourself back around, missy, and come back out here with a smile. Cause we. Who puts the shoes on your feet?

[Matt Rogers]

Fix your face culture.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes.

[Bowen Yang]

It was a.

[Lena Dunham]

My father's a wasp. It was fix your face culture. And so I don't. And I was in a kind of mood. It was a synthetic, nasty mood that could not be controlled.

[Bowen Yang]

Because the nefarious thing about these things is that they were meant originally to help you quit smoking cigarettes.

[Lena Dunham]

And now yesterday, I saw a girl in the bodega, and she was crying because her credit card wasn't working and she wanted her vape, and she was like, 23. And I did pay for it because I was like, I can't watch you in this kind of pain. But I said to her, you gotta stop.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, because look at you. Look at your life. Look at your choices.

[Lena Dunham]

Correct. And I also said gets ins. Gets lozenges, but also anything that makes you cry in the bodega. Like, there's nothing I want in the bodega that if I can't get it, I'm gonna cry.

[Matt Rogers]

I'm reduced to tears.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes. And I don't wanna live yourself. I don't want to live that way. I don't live that way.

[Matt Rogers]

I also got to say, like, he. He has remained off the vape. He's doing so much better. I'm gonna see him.

[Lena Dunham]

Does he use lozenges or anything? Or. He's gone to.

[Matt Rogers]

You know what's crazy about those British people? It's stiff upper limb.

[Lena Dunham]

When my husband quit smoking, I was like, do you want to do a patch? You want this? And he was like, that is for pussies.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

No, he wants to feel the pain.

[Matt Rogers]

He was like. He was. It was so. If you know Fraser from the show, it was so Fraser. It was right then it's over. It was just like, it's done. And he loved the thing. Like, I mean, but. And I have to say, the. Then as someone's like, boyfriend in that moment, you. I think it might make it easier, too, when you have someone that's like, hi, like, I'm here too. This, like, really was scary, and it affected me. And I do think there is a degree of, like, all of a sudden, it's like that zoom out thing. It's like football, right? You zoom out. You look at it, you're like, football crazy. Yeah, well, yeah, But I guess my thing to. To be negative on football is like, you zoom out as an alien looking on the world, and you're like, what do they do? Doesn't seem exactly right. Like, many forms of, like, you know, government, things like that. Like, if we all were to just zoom out. The zooming out that happens when you look at people sucking on a little machine of smoke. Of course, right there, you'll be like, well, I look crazy.

[Lena Dunham]

My husband was a smoker. He saw me with the vape. He goes, it looks like you're plugged into a usb. Like, you have to go back to your USB to charge every five minutes. You look like a demented robot. And it's interesting, the thing you said about going, this is really scary for me because the only thing that affected my behavior in my 20s when I was not healthy and not making choices to be healthier, was my family looking at me after I'd had a terrifying incident in the hospital. And being like, that was scary for us. And if you love people, you don't want them to suffer.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, you're moving through the world completely aware of your body.

[Lena Dunham]

And, like, I'm starting to be.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, like. And you're hearing this thing that Frase went through, and you're like, it's done.

[Lena Dunham]

Totally.

[Bowen Yang]

Drop it in the water.

[Lena Dunham]

Drop it in the water. Never look at it again. It was great, and it was green.

[Matt Rogers]

And I remember her every day, and

[Lena Dunham]

I think about her every day. And when I see people vaping, I think, I hope that you have fun, and I hope you. A woman once said to me, a powerful one, said when I quit smoking, she said, I didn't judge myself. I thanked myself for what it gave me. And I do think those years. Do I think it was good that I vaped for six years, on and off, on and off? No. Do I think that during that time I needed something to stop? Stop, like, darker impulses? Probably, yes.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

But.

[Lena Dunham]

And now I'm like, training wheels are off. Yeah, the vape is gone. But I do have stuffed animals.

[Bowen Yang]

Of course. The woman who. What'd she say? I think I thank it for what it gave me.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

And that woman was Marie Kondo.

[Matt Rogers]

And that woman. Wait, what was gonna say?

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, but this is like when a total fucking stranger tells you, hey, I watched Girls. I read your book, and I think you have eds.

[Lena Dunham]

Yes. That was the craziest. It was so crazy. A total stranger wrote to me. I had been.

[Bowen Yang]

It's the zoom out.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, it's the zoom out.

[Matt Rogers]

And it was exactly right.

[Lena Dunham]

Everything she said, it was like reading my. She literally. Her name is Marjorie. She literally made my life make sense to me because I had had my entire childhood I'd have all of these weird symptoms, like you're running in dodgeball and your knee dislocates, and your teacher's like, how did you do that? Nobody touched you. You know, I was like, I was the const. If there was anyone had a cold at school, like, within, you know, six hours, I was going down. I had migraines starting when I was seven. I had really strong. I used to faint when I had to be when I was in the sun, which my grandma loved, because once I fainted in the customs line in Mexico, and we got to skip. And she said, I'll never forget. She said, can you do that again?

[Matt Rogers]

Airport hack, customs hack.

[Lena Dunham]

But what was amazing was I had been. I knew I had endometriosis. And I had been writing about my health, which involved more symptoms. And also, there were times I had to pause life for my health. And this woman had been paying attention. She said, even the way that you run, the way that your skin flushes, it all makes sense. And sent me to this doctor at Johns Hopkins. And now there's more awareness about. There's both. More awareness about Ehler Danlos syndrome, other sort of autoimmune illness, the intersection between these things and endometriosis. The. There's increasing sort of people in the medical field to understand. But it was also a huge moment for me. Cause I was like, you know, a Jewish girl who was raised to be like, the doctor's always right. That was who you respected in, like, my grandfather's great shame was that he was a dentist, not a doctor, because he had not been able to afford, like, that much schooling. And so he loved to be Dr. Samuel Simmons, but he felt shame about the kind of doctor that he was.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, Dr. Simmons.

[Matt Rogers]

I wish I could relieve that pain.

[Lena Dunham]

Andy Kaufman's orthodontist.

[Bowen Yang]

Wow.

[Matt Rogers]

I don't know.

[Bowen Yang]

I never clocked his teeth. Anyway. I keep going.

[Matt Rogers]

That's probably a good thing.

[Lena Dunham]

My grandpa wasn't really keeping it doing cosmetic. He was doing, like, does one of your teeth go out like that?

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, I'll put it back.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay.

[Lena Dunham]

There was a thing in our house which was, you were never supposed to let him look in your mouth, because if you had a loose tooth, he would rip it out.

[Matt Rogers]

No.

[Lena Dunham]

And so my mom would always be like, whatever we do when we get to Passover, do not open your mouth. Mouth for grandpa. Because his thing was just like, come on, let's go.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, bro.

[Lena Dunham]

And he had his office in the house, and his tools were upstairs.

[Matt Rogers]

So I. I had to say I. There's something about an in home dental or doctor thing which. No, I trust it more. I'm like, this is the center of your life. Literally. So you must be carrying down.

[Lena Dunham]

So do you know who the central orthodontist. Central dental practices in Great Neck, Long island, between the period of 1945 and 1983.

[Bowen Yang]

Dr. Sam Simmons.

[Lena Dunham]

Dr. Samuel Simmons. And the patriarch from capturing the Freedmens. And those were the two warring.

[Bowen Yang]

Remind me.

[Lena Dunham]

Do you remember the documentary about the family that end up maybe being predatory monsters? It was like the first Andrew Jarecki documentary. I watched it. Angelica. Nicole Kidman was sitting in front of me at the theater. And it's about this family that potentially. It's unclear whether they committed sort of like mass acts of pedophilia or whether there was a sort of like satanic panic moment that happened. I'm sure that you end up kind of really siding, of course with the victims. But he was this orthodontist who kind of seemed like he had this really perfect family. And then it disintegrates. And his son was Bobo the Clown, the premier Barty clown of downtown Manhattan. So he used to do birthday parties. And the father was the other orthodontist in Great Neck. And of course, when all of this came out, my grandfather was king.

[Bowen Yang]

Of course.

[Matt Rogers]

I have to say. And this is the biggest compliment I could give that story sounds like a limited series starring Matthew Rhys.

[Lena Dunham]

That's so nice.

[Matt Rogers]

That's the best compliment I get.

[Bowen Yang]

Watch.

[Lena Dunham]

Capturing the Friedmans. I've never seen anyone nod as emphatically as Nicole Kidman ahead of me in the theater.

[Bowen Yang]

She loves cinema.

[Lena Dunham]

In the Angelica. She loves cinema 2001.

[Matt Rogers]

She was just excited to be in a theater.

[Lena Dunham]

She loves it. I still remember what the light looked like pouring on her beautiful face. Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

She's just stunning. She sat here just days ago.

[Lena Dunham]

I know. I know. I listened.

[Matt Rogers]

Wasn't it. It really was a trans. When she saw the Looney Tunes on my shirt and couldn't handle herself for 45 seconds.

[Lena Dunham]

I can't imagine anything better than making Nicole Kidman happy.

[Matt Rogers]

It was wonderful.

[Lena Dunham]

Except for making Tilda Swinton smile. Which I did once. Once.

[Matt Rogers]

Tilda. So we need to get her in.

[Lena Dunham]

I have a photo. I don't do. I'm sure you're the same. Which is. I don't do a lot of celebrity approaches. I'm always shocked by when it comes out of me.

[Matt Rogers]

Right.

[Lena Dunham]

Like one time I saw Janice Dickinson at the Sunset Tower and I screamed. You mean Everything to me.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, I love that part of the book.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah. Thank you. Know that recently I FaceTimed Judd, and he had FaceTimed me, and I was in bed, sweaty, mess. He goes, lena, I'm a little busy right now. Passes the phone to Glen Powell.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, Glen Powell.

[Lena Dunham]

Carried you for pretty much no feelings. The masculinity radiating from the screen. Do you wanna know what I did?

[Matt Rogers]

What'd you do?

[Lena Dunham]

I went like this. Hey, you're my number one movie star. What happened? Who is she? What's going on? And Glenn Powell's like, thank you. That's so sweet. And then I go, ain't no set like a Jed Apatow set.

[Matt Rogers]

It's so like, guys, no lies told.

[Lena Dunham]

No lies told. But what's she doing?

[Matt Rogers]

No, I think she.

[Lena Dunham]

Why is she.

[Matt Rogers]

Something else took over.

[Lena Dunham]

That's exactly what happened. And that's usually when I approach a celebrity, it's something else takes over 100%. I learned the hard way because I once approached theater character actress legend Jackie Hoffman in a bodega.

[Matt Rogers]

And that's gonna.

[Lena Dunham]

You were incredible in kissing Jessica Stein. And she went, oh.

[Matt Rogers]

Ow.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh. And I went, I'm never doing that again.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, but you know what? You had the right idea, which was to not approach with the most popular thing she's done. You approach with the thing that's gonna hit them in the heart the most. Like when I met Queen Latifah. And three people in front of me said, I loved you in Chicago. And I went up to her and said, I loved you in Life Support, which was her AIDS drama on hbo.

[Lena Dunham]

If you don't think I remember Life

[Matt Rogers]

Support so much, baby.

[Lena Dunham]

And she probably was like, that means everything to me. One time when I was at Esalen, my favorite place in the world, a woman said, I loved how you represented pelvic pain in your TV show Camping. Camping is not even available on hbo, Max. It has been scrubbed. Jennifer Garner's probably taken it off for IMDb. Beautiful person, amazing experience.

[Matt Rogers]

Inside and out.

[Lena Dunham]

Inside and out. Makes Blueberry buckle for the crowd crew. Ain't no set like a Jennifer Garner set. But that said, like, you never. When someone says something to you like that, you cannot help but be bold over. And that's what you did for Latifah.

[Bowen Yang]

All right, everybody, we need to discuss a vacation that's not just a vacation, it's a statement.

[Matt Rogers]

Virgin voyages. Adults only. Yes. A child free sanctuary at sea. It's giving serenity. It's giving sexy European summer. It's giving. I deserve of this.

[Bowen Yang]

They're sailing the Caribbean and the Med obviously but now they've added nyc, the west coast and Alaska. So whether you want golden hour off California or full cinematic glacier core main character energy. They said range and the awards.

[Matt Rogers]

At this point it's less award winning cruise line and more do we just engrave their name on the trophy. Already they've won so many travel awards the ships might sweep our culture.

[Bowen Yang]

Awards over 20 eateries, Epic Entertainment, fitness classes, wi fi all included luxury without the nickel and diming virgin voyages Sailors consider yourselves called. Imagine never buying gas again. EVs are as easy to charge as your phone and perfect for everyday life.

[Matt Rogers]

Drive daily with confidence everywhere you go. Most Americans drive 40 miles a day. Did you know that most EVs are equipped with 200 to 400 miles of range?

[Bowen Yang]

Here's the thing. They've got fewer parts, fewer repairs and fewer headaches.

[Matt Rogers]

With hundreds of new and used EV models available today, there's an EV to fit every lifestyle and every budget. The way forward is electric. Learn [e-mail] when the afternoon slump hits, everything feels like an uphill battle.

[Bowen Yang]

Pure Leaf shows up for you in those moments when breaks are needed most but rarely taken. Sometimes you just need to take a moment to yourself, slow down and enjoy some Pure leaf so you can reset and keep performing at your best.

[Matt Rogers]

Pure Leaf is available in a variety of flavors including classic sweetened and unsweetened. Unsweetened as well as new zero sugar sweet tea and the fan favorite raspberry.

[Bowen Yang]

Bring yourself back with Pure Leaf, a real brewed naturally caffeinated iced tea to help you take on what's next. Time for a tea break. Time for a Pure Leaf.

[Matt Rogers]

You can't spell culturistas without R I.

[Bowen Yang]

That's right. Rhode island is the perfect place not just for the culturistas of the world, but all the other Easters too.

[Matt Rogers]

We're talking about the food Easters, the theater Easters, the nature Easters, the luxuries does whatever you're in Easter for, you'll find the Ocean State.

[Bowen Yang]

So start packing those bags and be the best Easter you can be.

[Matt Rogers]

Rhode Island. All that.

[Bowen Yang]

Plan your trip at visit rhode island.com

[Matt Rogers]

that's visit rhode island.com so they're telling me we're almost. We're. We're almost out of time. So we have to do. I don't think so, honey.

[Bowen Yang]

The question. But that's what?

[Matt Rogers]

Oh my God.

[Bowen Yang]

We didn't even ask the question really quickly. Did you want to tell us what

[Matt Rogers]

was the culture that made you say culture was for you?

[Lena Dunham]

It was seeing Sarah Jessica Parker and Jane Krakowski in Once Upon a Mattress,

[Bowen Yang]

Actress on Broadway, Lady Larkin and Winifred. Thank you so much.

[Lena Dunham]

And I sang I'm shy. I'm so quiet and shy for my camp musical audition. Did not get in, but I just thought, like, I love being a woman. Women can be funny, they can be fun, they can be sexy. Sarah Jessica Parker's, like, wearing rags and screaming my. I then went home. AOL.com printed out probably 100 low resolution images of Sarah Jessica Parker. Made a wallpaper out of them.

[Bowen Yang]

Yep.

[Lena Dunham]

And it was so big for me.

[Bowen Yang]

I'm so sad we don't have more time to talk about this. But yes. No, no.

[Lena Dunham]

It was going. It was everything. And I mean, it's still. And then I've also gone back and watched Carol Burnett in it. Like, Once Upon a Mattress to me is. I love it because it's a musical where the central character is not supposed to be good at singing.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

Like, which is one of the biggest fights my mom and I ever had was when I was going to Impact Performing Arts Camp in Salisbury, Connecticut, where I was in camp with all the Gummer sisters as well as Lily Rabe. They were all great at acting. We were doing a review. We were supposed to choose a song. My mom said, you should choose shy.

[Bowen Yang]

No, no.

[Lena Dunham]

She said from Guys and Adelaide's Lament because it's a character piece. And I said, I want to sing Edelweiss. And she said, you are a character actress.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, boy.

[Lena Dunham]

And I said, you are not an ingenue. She was right. But I wasn't ready to see the writing on the wall.

[Matt Rogers]

You are a character actress.

[Lena Dunham]

You are a character actress.

[Matt Rogers]

But you don't know what a gift it is.

[Lena Dunham]

No, it's the best. Have a mom who knows you're a character actress.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Lena Dunham]

I mean, my mom played Rhett Butler in the camp play. Like, that's where. Cause she was tall, so they always gave her the boy. So she was like, take what you got, put on your robe and sing Adelaide's Lament. But I just love that Once Upon a Mattress is a musical for girls who aren't naturally good at musicals.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Because they can go. Because I'm actually terribly, terribly shy.

[Lena Dunham]

My favorite one is the swamps of

[Bowen Yang]

home are brushed with green angles.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, my God. I always forget that you're like, a musical theater kid. And then it just gets me right in my heart. Then I remember when I Watched Wicked.

[Matt Rogers]

You can stream that on Peacock.

[Lena Dunham]

Yep.

[Matt Rogers]

Okay, so we gotta do. I don't think so, honey. All right, all right, I have one. This is our 60 seconds second where we take some time. 60 seconds to rake things across the coals. I do have something gently directed at our guest.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so, honey. Directed at Lena Dunham. His time starts now.

[Matt Rogers]

I don't think so, honey. What you're about to do to role model. Making him a movie star is so dangerous. I don't think so, honey, that we're gonna be able to handle it. I' seeing Tucker rise and rise and rise. I've seen the Sally phenomenon. I said they're making a movie star now. We are. If you think Hudson and Connor have taken over, you're not ready. You fucking wait. The little tattoos all over his body, the sort of easy way with a smile. The hair that looks unstyled but you know, it is sort of natural charm and charisma. I don't think so, honey. That we're ready for this person to show us perfection in this type of way. Not to put pressure. Because I think putting pressure on it would then sort of like, I don't know, I. I would hate for any thought to run through his head besides, well, I'm up, I'm in a good mood, I'm gonna do my thing today. Which seems like the vibe that is his mood. I don't think so, honey, that we're gonna be able to get through. But I do think so, honey, that I'm gonna be there. Cuz you Natalie Portman. Tucker. I'm in the seat. I do think so.

[Lena Dunham]

And then Rashida Jones kind of giving him like a little askance look. And I will say this, that I showed an early cut of the movie to a friend of mine who's like a very thoughtful 45 year old writer who's like half queer. And she was like, you're ruining my life. I didn't think I still had feelings like this in me. And it's funny cause I so want Tucker never to feel objectified that I literally talk to him. Like I'm like, put her here, pal. I was like, I talk to him like I'm a friend's father who's just walked in from golfing and doesn't really want kids at the house. Cause I so don't want him to ever feel like all of these creepy. I want him to feel freedom. And I'm like, anyone can be objectified. I don't want this lovely young boy who loves his mother, Susan, so much to ever feel that he's being controlled.

[Matt Rogers]

Well, that seems to be too late on that.

[Bowen Yang]

He has the perfect perspective on it, though, because. And by that, I mean he has a sense of humor because he recently or a couple months ago posted something on Instagram Stories where it was a meme because they have the same haircut of a famous Sean Cody porn star named Brandon. And he was like, come to the show tonight. He has an awareness of what he does to people, but doesn't flaunt it too much in too flagrant of a way that he will be perfect and objectify him.

[Lena Dunham]

He's also just a good boy. Like, I was around him for long enough that if the facade was going to crack, it would have. Let's just say, if someone was gonna kick a rug or throw a chair, it would've happened. And he is a good boy. Like, he's from Maine. He gets really happy when dogs show up. Like, there's an ease. And he is obviously poetic and complicated. I just, like, love him. He's my buddy. I like, text him pictures of my pigs all the time. And he writes lol. And it's, you know, it's very healthy to have young friends. And he writes lol.

[Matt Rogers]

He writes lol.

[Lena Dunham]

I. But he's a really good actor, and it's annoying.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, I love him.

[Lena Dunham]

It's very like Brad Pitt in California where you're like, who's that?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. Okay, well, get ready for that. Who's that?

[Bowen Yang]

Moment.

[Matt Rogers]

Here's Bowen Yang's. I don't think so, honey.

[Lena Dunham]

So exciting.

[Bowen Yang]

Also inspired by our guest.

[Matt Rogers]

Okay, this is Bowen Yang's. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.

[Bowen Yang]

I don't think so, honey. More places should be like the Tower Bar at Sunset. Tower and serve what? Chicken pot pie.

[Lena Dunham]

Oh, what?

[Bowen Yang]

I don't care that it costs $34 like it does at Tower Bar. Price it up. Inflate that all you want. I know I'm paying for something premium. Even if it's pretty bad. I love the crust. And you're thinking, oh, but Bowen, it's so hard to make, and it's so hard to scale up at a restaurant. Buy the puff pastry ahead of time. 30 seconds, put it in the freezer, lay it out on the. On the day you'll be okay. Cut it out on just above, you know, above the dish. It will be fine. It's not that hard to make. I just want it made from the expertise and curatorial sort of in 15 seconds, just POV of a chef and Tarabar. I do lament how populated it's been. It's gotten since your time there and making it a home. I love going still. It has a new valence to it now.

[Lena Dunham]

It has a really new valence.

[Matt Rogers]

And that is one minute.

[Lena Dunham]

That was incredible. I agree with you 100%, I will say, and I talk about this in the book that I. During COVID I was, for a period, the only guest at the Sunset Tower.

[Bowen Yang]

Incredible.

[Lena Dunham]

There was one guest. There was a gentleman at the desk. There was a lady upstairs in 1109. She was me and my dog Ingrid, who has her own relationship to that place. And because I was alone, I could go work on my computer in the bar. I could go sit by the pool. I could go sit on the road. Roof. The freedom. I was Eloise. It was the greatest time of my life.

[Matt Rogers]

And no one knew that the burger was famous, so they couldn't charge $46 for it.

[Lena Dunham]

Well, they weren't even serving. They were literally serving croissants wrapped in. In, you know, croissants wrapped in whatever. Like tin foil. Because they. I forgot the word for tin foil.

[Matt Rogers]

They have good pigs in a blanket, too, I believe.

[Lena Dunham]

I am a vegetarian, but that's not a judgment.

[Matt Rogers]

More for me.

[Lena Dunham]

But I've had them before in my pat, when I was acting out of pocket and eating meat, and I.

[Bowen Yang]

That's what meat eating.

[Lena Dunham]

Loved them, but. And now I was alone at the Tower Barn. It was really beautiful. And then you set one table on fire.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, and they kicked me out.

[Lena Dunham]

And they didn't kick me out, which was incredible. What they did was monitor me. And now every time I see lovely Jeff, who owns the tower board, he says, are you gonna set anything on fire today? And I go, no, no, no. I don't have matches. I don't have a lighter. My husband let me.

[Bowen Yang]

You can't live down something like lighting something on fire. And once you walk back into that establishment, it's tough. Incredible.

[Matt Rogers]

Well, you're about to set this whole place on fire with your. I don't think so, honey. Are you ready?

[Lena Dunham]

I thought about it in advance. I can't be as good as Nicole Kidman saying bad breath. Nothing will ever be as good.

[Matt Rogers]

Listen, we're all trailing in her dust, but are you ready? This is Lena Dunham's. I don't think so, honey. Her time starts now.

[Lena Dunham]

Okay? I don't think so, honey. Quite quiet. Luxury.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, I don't.

[Lena Dunham]

If I'm Gonna have luxury. I want it to be loud.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes.

[Lena Dunham]

Firstly, I'm not. Since when did elegance mean that you were wearing oatmeal with bone, with beige with tan? We have so many colors. We have so many materials. Why is looking like you work at a spa suddenly a sign? Did rich people get so bored with having so many things that they thought the most important things are gonna be things that look like nothing? And I don't think so, honey. What? You're a fashion blogger and you're showing me that you have a top that looks like someone's baby's skin and a pants that look like someone else's brother, and both those people are white. I don't want it.

[Matt Rogers]

Five seconds.

[Lena Dunham]

I don't think so, honey. When I get something and I spend a lot of money on it, I want everyone to know.

[Matt Rogers]

Know headlines. And that's one minute. Honestly, I. It does. I think I. I'm going to say something big. Fashion got worse when we went minimalist.

[Lena Dunham]

The other thing to know is that, like, minimalism looks very different on a person who spent 20 years creating their body, of course. Whereas, like, minimalism on a person who's just trying to survive is a different energy. Yeah. It's just a shirt that. That looks. And, like, what, you want me to spend $500 on a T shirt that looks like the one that I wore over my bathing suit when I went to the breakers with my grandma in 1992?

[Matt Rogers]

Well, it looks dirty on purpose a little bit. So that's why it's more expensive.

[Lena Dunham]

Yeah, that's exactly right. And it looks like someone sewed it in a shaker community, and I'm mad.

[Matt Rogers]

You can see the stitching. That's why it's $8,000.

[Lena Dunham]

I'm mad. I'm so mad. And I see things and I. I just go, you're really trying to tell me this? And I don't wanna indulge in fast fashion. I'm not trying to hurt the planet.

[Bowen Yang]

No, no.

[Lena Dunham]

But I don't want what you're offered. So I'm gonna have to go to forever 21. Yeah, I'm gonna have to go to forever 21. Thank you for giving me the space to say this.

[Matt Rogers]

Of course I'm gonna have to go to Forever 21. Being the pull quote.

[Bowen Yang]

Being the pull quote.

[Matt Rogers]

Maybe that's title of that.

[Bowen Yang]

I'm gonna have to go to Forever 21.

[Lena Dunham]

The first time Forever 21 opened, I was like, this is a utopia.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, yes.

[Lena Dunham]

For women.

[Matt Rogers]

Like, it felt like something that wasn't for us in one of the things that, like, it was one of those moments where it's like, you know when you're like a little gay boy and you see Justin Timberlake and all the girls are excited, but you can't be.

[Bowen Yang]

No.

[Matt Rogers]

So you get angry. That's how I felt about Forever 21. But then they have a place to go hang out.

[Bowen Yang]

But then we would go at NYU at the Forever 21 Union Square, and that was a haven.

[Matt Rogers]

Well, finding out that they even sold things for boys, men.

[Lena Dunham]

I used to like if it was a hot day and I was in a dress and my thighs were rubbing tail, you just pop into Forever 21 and get a pair of like neon bike shorts and suddenly your outfit is singing.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Beautiful. Fame sick. April 14th.

[Lena Dunham]

I love being with you two. And it's so special to have our group chat come to life in this way. And thank you for everything you've given me. Friendship, changing my life through, helping me quit vaping. Reading the book so thoughtfully.

[Matt Rogers]

We love every single page of it. Just like we love everything that you've done. I mean, like, it's not not a lie that show ch. You're one of the most important people to our generation in terms of pop culture, in terms of what you contributed.

[Lena Dunham]

Life is so.

[Bowen Yang]

Life is just so.

[Matt Rogers]

Life is just so. That's the title of it.

[Lena Dunham]

I love you guys.

[Matt Rogers]

Life is just so.

[Lena Dunham]

Thanks for having me and for jacking me up for three days. I'm going home to take 42 Benadryl.

[Matt Rogers]

That's actually in vogue. Okay. We end every episode with a song. You know the one, you know the one. You go, I'm curious if you know the one. I'm in the corner watching you kiss her. Oh, so listen to the rest of that. Watch the best episode of television of all time.

[Lena Dunham]

All sexistential.

[Bowen Yang]

She it's so good.

[Matt Rogers]

Bye.

[Lena Dunham]

I love you guys.

[Bowen Yang]

Las Culturistas is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio podcasts

[Matt Rogers]

created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, executive produced by Anna Hosnier and produced by Becca Ramos Ed mixed by Doug Bame and our music is by Henry Komirsky.

[Bowen Yang]

Imagine never buying gas again. EVs are as easy to charge as your phone and perfect for everyday life.

[Matt Rogers]

Drive daily with confidence everywhere you go. Most Americans drive 40 miles a day. Did you know that most EVs are equipped with 200 to 400 miles of range?

[Bowen Yang]

Here's the thing. They've got fewer people parts, fewer repairs and fewer headaches.

[Matt Rogers]

With hundreds of new and used EV models available today, there's an EV to fit every lifestyle in every budget. The way forward is electric. Learn [e-mail] you can't spell culturistas without RI that's right.

[Bowen Yang]

Rhode island is the perfect place not just for the culturistas of the world, but all the other Easters too.

[Matt Rogers]

We're talking about the food Easters, the theateristas, the nature Easters, the luxuriestas whatever you' Easter 4. You'll find it in the Ocean State.

[Bowen Yang]

So start packing those bags and be the best Easter you can be.

[Matt Rogers]

Rhode Island. All that.

[Bowen Yang]

Plan your trip at visit rhode island.com

[Matt Rogers]

that's visit rhode island.com Sometimes the butt goes through a lot. When the butt speaks, we listen.

[Bowen Yang]

Preparation H is the butt care expert known for helping people care for their hemorrhoids with confidence. Medicated white wipes to help keep things calm, cool and collected.

[Matt Rogers]

The rapid relief spray provides fast relief from itching, burning and swelling.

[Bowen Yang]

There's also a multi symptom relief cream when broader support is needed. Preparation Age treats the issue rather than just masking it. No shame here, only solutions.

[Matt Rogers]

So if a butt has been begging for a little kindness, wipe and treat for better relief with the number one doctor recommended preference brand Preparation H.

[Lena Dunham]

You said you were over him, but his hoodie is still in your rotation. It's time. Grab your phone, snap a few pics and sell it on Depop. Listed in minutes with no selling fees. And just like that, a guy 500 miles away just paid full price for your closure. And right on cue.

[Bowen Yang]

Hey, still got my hoodie?

[Lena Dunham]

Nope. But I've got tonight's dinner paid for. Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste list. Now with no selling fees, payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.