"The Universe Needs To Relax" (w/ Cynthia Erivo) - Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Summary5 min read

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang Episode: "The Universe Needs To Relax" (w/ Cynthia Erivo)

Hosts: Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Guest: Cynthia Erivo
Produced by: Big Money Players Network and iHeartPodcasts

Introduction to Cynthia Erivo’s Journey

In this episode of Las Culturistas, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang sit down with Cynthia Erivo, an Emmy, Grammy, and Tony-winning actress and songwriter, to delve deep into her transformative role as Elphaba in the acclaimed musical Wicked. The conversation explores her emotional and professional journey, the intricate process of embodying such an iconic character, and her future aspirations in the entertainment industry.

A Surreal Screening Experience

[03:05] Cynthia Erivo:
"I was fresh off seeing the film Wicked Part 1 again. Last night there was a screening... Kristen was there. Norbert was there. So many wonderful, wonderful people."

Cynthia recounts attending a special screening of Wicked Part 1 surrounded by Broadway legends and original cast members. This event was not just another viewing but a profound immersion into the world of Wicked, emphasizing the generational impact and the communal spirit of the Broadway family.

[03:20] Bowen Yang:
"This was not just any screening."

The screening featured an intimate gathering of Broadway friends and family, making it a monumental occasion that highlighted the enduring legacy of Wicked over its 21-year run worldwide.

Embarking on the Elphaba Journey

[12:32] Matt Rogers:
"Defying Gravity... that battle cry is so different."

The hosts dive into Cynthia’s portrayal of Elphaba, particularly focusing on her rendition of "Defying Gravity." Cynthia elaborates on the necessity of infusing the final note with grit and rage, marking the beginning of Elphaba’s transformation into the Wicked Witch.

[12:59] Cynthia Erivo:
"It had to be, for both of us, the release of everything, it had to be a roar."

Cynthia and her collaborator John crafted a unique vocal departure from Elphaba’s previously clean timbre, aiming to capture the raw emotion essential for the character’s evolution.

Navigating Emotional Depth and Performance

[17:05] Cynthia Erivo:
"I'm aware that so many people on that set are versions of Elphaba... We're all watching a version of ourselves in this moment."
[19:27] Cynthia Erivo:
"It felt like there was the most amazing energy in the room."

Cynthia discusses the emotional challenges of portraying Elphaba, particularly in scenes that depict rejection and loneliness. The supportive environment on set allowed her to navigate these intense moments, fostering a sense of communal understanding among the cast.

[17:09] Bowen Yang:
"The song 'Dancing Through Life'... I could get chills."

The conversation highlights specific scenes, such as "Dancing Through Life," where Cynthia’s performance evokes a powerful emotional response from both the audience and her fellow cast members.

The Audition and Collaboration with John M. Chu

[22:36] Matt Rogers:
"When you performed 'I'm Here' at the Tony Awards... it felt like you were putting a warm blanket over everyone."
[23:21] Matt Rogers:
"How do you unwind? What do you do to, like, chill?"

Cynthia shares her audition experience with director John M. Chu, emphasizing the respect and support she received during the process. The collaboration was marked by mutual understanding and a shared vision for Elphaba’s character, allowing Cynthia to bring her unique interpretation to life.

[23:32] Cynthia Erivo:
"I didn't want to even know until they needed me to come in."

Her approach to auditions is rooted in authenticity and a deep connection to the character, ensuring that her performances are both genuine and impactful.

Impact of the SAG Strike on Production

[47:28] Bowen Yang:
"And I will say that when the SAG strike happened... it's a collaborative thing with you and with Jon."
[48:20] Cynthia Erivo:
"At first it started off like torture... accepting we weren't coming back quickly."

The unexpected SAG strike posed significant challenges, delaying the final stages of filming Defying Gravity. Cynthia describes the period of uncertainty and the emotional toll it took as the cast awaited resumption of production, ultimately strengthening their resolve to complete the project.

Future Endeavors: Music and Production

[59:08] Cynthia Erivo:
"I'm under a joint venture... I'm kind of ready. We're putting finishing touches and getting it all done."

Looking ahead, Cynthia discusses her collaboration with Ariana Grande on a new music project. This venture signifies a fusion of her theatrical prowess with her passion for music, aiming to create an eclectic album that harnesses her vocal strengths.

[63:08] Cynthia Erivo:
"My production company is working on a series right now... Prima Facie is being turned into a movie."

Additionally, Cynthia shares insights into her production company’s upcoming projects, including adapting the play Prima Facie into a film, showcasing her ambition to explore diverse narratives and expand her creative footprint.

Personal Reflections and Creative Process

[57:21] Cynthia Erivo:
"When I was 11, I realized... there’s something I can do with this."

Cynthia reflects on her early connection with music, recognizing it as the first language that shaped her artistic identity. This foundational relationship with music fuels her creative endeavors, both in acting and songwriting.

[60:18] Matt Rogers:
"What is your next run? What's the next?"

The hosts inquire about Cynthia’s future projects, to which she hints at further creative explorations while maintaining an air of mystery about upcoming ventures.

Closing Thoughts

[71:55] Cynthia Erivo:
"I've actually never read Middlemarch yet, I'm going to get into it. I'm going to read a little bit more."

As the episode winds down, Cynthia shares her love for literature and her plans to immerse herself in classic novels alongside her bustling career. The episode concludes with heartfelt acknowledgments of the collaborative spirit that defines Cynthia’s approach to storytelling and performance.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

Cynthia Erivo [03:05]:
"I felt like, oh, I'm part of this incredible sisterhood... it became a really huge moment to be a part of."
Cynthia Erivo [12:32]:
"Defying Gravity... that battle cry is so different than the way you've approached vocally the rest of the performance."
Cynthia Erivo [17:05]:
"I'm feeling very, very, like floaty. Last night was crazy and amazing."
Cynthia Erivo [21:22]:
"What do you mean? Just wine."
Cynthia Erivo [62:05]:
"It's unforgettable that I can do that. I understand. She's like, your voice is an instrument, so just use it that way."

Conclusion

This episode offers a profound exploration of Cynthia Erivo’s artistic journey, highlighting her dedication to her craft, the emotional depth she brings to her roles, and her unwavering commitment to storytelling. Through candid conversations and insightful reflections, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the cultural impact Cynthia has in the realms of theater and music.

Note: Advertisements and non-content segments have been excluded to maintain focus on the core discussion with Cynthia Erivo.

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Transcript767 lines

[00:01]
Cynthia Erivo
With the holidays right around the corner, Macy's has got you covered. From home decor to holiday fashion errand, make this season stylish by letting Macy's be your guide to gifting and hosting this holiday season. Yeah, you can give love, give style. You can shop@macy's.com or visit a store near you.
[00:17]
Bowen Yang
JBL Tour Pro 3 earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard.
[00:21]
Matt Rogers
Yeah, I mean if you want to get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case Clear sound? These are not standard things. You're only going to get them with the JBL Tour Pro 3, baby.
[00:33]
Bowen Yang
And I love the sound of JBL when it goes. These earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others.
[00:41]
Matt Rogers
Touchscreen Smart charging case for one touch control, instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise canceling and the one of a kind audio transmitter which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to inflight entertainment. What more could you want first? Doesn't follow. Grab a pair@jbl.com Life is an act of constant reinvention. That's true for you and for cars.
[01:04]
Bowen Yang
Nissan reimagined the all new Kicks around you. The Bose Personal plus sound system with speakers in the headrests keeps you in the groove, while The Nissan Safety Shield360 technologies keep you safe.
[01:16]
Matt Rogers
If Nissan reinvented the Kicks, you can reinvent yourself.
[01:19]
Bowen Yang
Drive the all new reimagined Nissan Kicks today available feature.
[01:23]
Matt Rogers
Bose is the registered trademark of the Bose Corporation. Nissan Safety Shield technologies can prevent all collisions or warn in all situations. See Owner's Manual for for important safety information.
[01:33]
Cynthia Erivo
Hey comedy fans. The funniest comedians in the world are on tour and you can get tickets to see them live near you. Laugh at the biggest names in comedy like Atsuko Okatsuka, Chelsea Handler, Corey Holcomb, Matt Matthews, Nurse John, Ralph Barboza, Ronnie Chang, Sarah Silverman, Sebastian Maniscalco, Wanda Sykes and so many more. All kinds of shows, all kinds of venues, all kinds of funny. Head to livenation.comcomedy to get your tickets today. That's livenation.comcomedy hey everybody, it's me, Matt.
[02:05]
Matt Rogers
Rogers, letting you know tickets are on sale now to see me on tour. The Prince of Christmas tour, that is. I'm doing my whole album. Have you heard of Christmas? Plus a lot more with the whole band all throughout December. Go to www.mattrogersofficial.com to see me in a city near you. And now Las Coach drums Look man. Oh I see. My, oh, my. Bowen, look over there.
[02:31]
Bowen Yang
Wow.
[02:31]
Matt Rogers
Is that culture? Yes. Wow.
[02:34]
Bowen Yang
Lost culturistas.
[02:36]
Matt Rogers
Ding dong. Lost culturistas Calling in our green, as it were.
[02:40]
Bowen Yang
You know, it is a very present color in all of our lives. And yet for someone to. I don't know, like, really, I'm not gonna say own it, but for some.
[02:53]
Matt Rogers
That's my color now vibes.
[02:55]
Bowen Yang
And I'm not talking about us.
[02:56]
Matt Rogers
No, I'm already talking about someone else.
[02:58]
Bowen Yang
I'm already. Ooh.
[02:59]
Matt Rogers
You'll hear about it in a sec.
[03:00]
Bowen Yang
You'll hear from in a sec. I. I'm already sort of basking in the glow of this person because I'm fresh off.
[03:05]
Matt Rogers
How could you not?
[03:06]
Bowen Yang
How could you not? I mean, this is the first time I'm seeing her in person in a long time, and I'm fresh off of seeing the film Wicked Part 1 again. Last night there was a screening.
[03:17]
Matt Rogers
Talk about this, because this was a really. This was not just any screening.
[03:20]
Bowen Yang
No, no. This was so sublime. It was Broadway friends and family. So it was so many of the original cast of Wicked, but also all the casts since over the 21 years. 21 years the show has been on around the world. Kristen was there. Norbert was there.
[03:37]
Matt Rogers
Wow.
[03:38]
Bowen Yang
So many wonderful, wonderful people. I'm missing so many people. Carrie St. Louis was there.
[03:42]
Matt Rogers
I saw that.
[03:43]
Bowen Yang
One of our famed Glindas, and it was just the warmest crowd. I couldn't believe it. You know what was also crazy? Children of the original cast.
[03:53]
Matt Rogers
Oh, so now it's truly generational. And it's. See, that's the great thing about this. And I think that it's, like, hitting everyone right now is like, this is meaningful. Un. Meaningful. Because I've also seen the film. It was a little bit of a different situation. It was a very small screening room. And I was just telling our guests, when I saw it, I was like, are people going to turn up the way I'm going to turn up?
[04:12]
Bowen Yang
Because it was a smaller theater.
[04:13]
Matt Rogers
Yes.
[04:14]
Bowen Yang
Smaller screen.
[04:14]
Matt Rogers
And I can say that they did, but it's. So when you're watching the movie, what's so incredible about it? And I don't know why I had to realize this, but I was like, oh, we're also honoring the wizard of Oz. This is generations of cinema. This is the wizard of Oz is the story, and so Wicked is the story. And it's just to watch it land on people like, that must have been really, really, really monumental.
[04:37]
Bowen Yang
So monumental. Oh, my God. I can't believe you're here. I love you so much.
[04:41]
Matt Rogers
I mean, just to speak on, you know, by the way, what a huge year for green.
[04:45]
Bowen Yang
Big year for green.
[04:46]
Matt Rogers
Green. You did that this year. You really got your stripes.
[04:51]
Bowen Yang
And I'm sorry, remind us. What?
[04:52]
Matt Rogers
Well, brat green.
[04:53]
Bowen Yang
Oh, brat green, of course.
[04:55]
Matt Rogers
Well, there was famously brat green and now there's Elphaba green.
[04:58]
Bowen Yang
Green was very present at the various tennis opens of the world.
[05:01]
Matt Rogers
100% beau. You know, golfers, because of the color of the grass.
[05:06]
Bowen Yang
Of the grass.
[05:07]
Matt Rogers
Green has forever. It's actually ruler culture. Number six. Green is forever. Our guest today is one of the most brilliant artists of any generation. An Emmy, Grammy and Tony winner, an Oscar nominated actress and songwriter. Just a truly brilliant star. Who we're here to announce is Elphaba. You heard it here first.
[05:30]
Bowen Yang
Breaking news.
[05:31]
Matt Rogers
Playing Elphaba in Wicked. I mean, when you see this, you are going to be truly lifted. I mean, and I don't even say that as a pun.
[05:40]
Bowen Yang
No. Oh, right. Oh, yeah.
[05:41]
Matt Rogers
Because of the famous lifting that happens. Not a spoiler.
[05:44]
Bowen Yang
She's also the patron saint of the Kennedy center. At this point.
[05:50]
Matt Rogers
I have to. If you don't think I'm going to bring up Alfie. Oh, you didn't think. If you didn't think I was going to. You don't talk to me.
[05:58]
Bowen Yang
Don't talk to me until I've had my Cynthia.
[06:01]
Matt Rogers
Cynthia.
[06:01]
Bowen Yang
Okay, everyone, welcome into your ear magnificent Cynthia Erivo.
[06:08]
Cynthia Erivo
Hello. Thank you for having me.
[06:10]
Matt Rogers
How are you feeling since last night?
[06:12]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, I'm feeling very, very, like floaty. Last night was crazy and amazing. Many, many things were happening.
[06:18]
Bowen Yang
You were bouncing around all over town.
[06:19]
Cynthia Erivo
I was bouncing around all over town. So I started at the cfda, went back to the screening. I was hanging out at the screening for a little bit, which was so surreal. I had like a. An outer body experience.
[06:30]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[06:31]
Cynthia Erivo
So I was standing at the back of the. The first of all when I walk in and there's all the Elphaba standing there, all the Glinda standing there. And then there's Kristen right in the middle and she welcomes me. We have this massive hug. Kristen's amazing. And I'd already spoken to it Dina. So that was like already sort of like a metaphor to physical thing that was going on. So I felt like, oh, I'm part of this incredible sisterhood, which, you know you are, but when you see it in like real life, that sort of becomes an actual core memory.
[07:02]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[07:03]
Cynthia Erivo
And then we move upstairs and then we speak and we start talking about what it means to us. And as I'm waiting for us to go up, I realize that I'm standing in front of a Broadway family, one of which I belong to because of my history and the things I've been through and Color Purple and all of that. And I'm like, oh, two things are happening at once. I'm getting to show this film that is from Broadway to a Broadway family from which I belong. I just had, like, a massive. It's not even a meltdown, but, like, a real realization of the journey that I've been on and what it might mean to them and what it might mean to me. And it just was. It became so. It was already a big moment, but that became a really huge moment to be a part of.
[07:53]
Bowen Yang
You were enveloped in it.
[07:54]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. I had to be like, I've got to breathe. I can't even. I feel like I'm so out of body. It was so insane. And then, because I had to rush back, I really didn't want to leave immediately. So I hung out at the back and watched just, like, the first 20 minutes of the film with everyone, and just to see, like, hear it, the laughs and the tears, that happened immediately.
[08:17]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[08:18]
Cynthia Erivo
The applause and it just. It was working. You know, you're like, oh, yeah, it's playing. It's playing. My makeup artist was saying, there's this piece in Madonna's Truth or Dare, and when she. They're standing in a circle and they're about to go on, show it, and it's in her hometown and she's shaking, she goes, it shouldn't matter, but it does matter what they think, of course. And I was like, that's the case. It does matter what this legacy, what this room thinks of this piece. And to be in the room whilst they were accepting it and open, armed for it was beyond my wildest dreams.
[08:56]
Matt Rogers
How are you managing overall, your emotions around this moment? Because it's.
[09:00]
Cynthia Erivo
No, sometimes I'm not.
[09:01]
Matt Rogers
That's what I mean is, how could you have time to yourself in the mornings where you, like, actually let things out, like. Or do your emotions, like, surprise you in moments like that?
[09:12]
Cynthia Erivo
They surprise me. Sometimes I feel like I'm really, like, I'm in control of what's going on, and I. You know, I can manage everything. And then the other times, they just, like, spill out.
[09:19]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[09:19]
Cynthia Erivo
You know, unexpectedly, a little thing will happen, and I go, oh, my God.
[09:24]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[09:24]
Bowen Yang
We were talking about this before with, like, John and with Ari. It's like. It's because we kind of put it to the side. We compartmentalized it. We put it in a drawer, and now it's all coming back. And like, you are. These things are popping out of not nowhere, but, like, intermittently. Because it was something that you sat with for years.
[09:42]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes. Yes.
[09:43]
Bowen Yang
And was that your first time watching it in a bigger room last night with an audience.
[09:47]
Matt Rogers
Wow.
[09:48]
Bowen Yang
On a bigger screen.
[09:48]
Cynthia Erivo
On a bigger screen with many people.
[09:51]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[09:52]
Cynthia Erivo
That is a very different experience to send the link. Correct. It's very different even to. Because I watched that movie basically with two other people. It was me and my publicist or something.
[10:03]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[10:04]
Cynthia Erivo
And we just sat and watched or. And that was it. And I'd been craving to watch it in theater with other people who had never seen it before who were just coming to it for the first time. So to sit, like, to watch people react, just off the cuff, insane. It's a completely different energy. It's the wildest, most energy filled, most electric feeling you could imagine. It's. I can't wait to do it again.
[10:30]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[10:30]
Cynthia Erivo
I can't wait to do it again and again.
[10:32]
Bowen Yang
Do it as much as you can because we're talking to you as, like, to you as someone who's obviously been in films before with theatrical releases. But, like, I don't know, like, it's just different, though. It's just different. And also.
[10:43]
Cynthia Erivo
Of.
[10:44]
Bowen Yang
Of course it's different, but also the thing that I miss about. You know, Matt and I were in a movie once that didn't come out in theaters, but we went to, like, the premieres and stuff and the screenings, and it was like, oh, I'll miss this so much. Just sharing the. With people as they're watching this at the same time.
[10:57]
Matt Rogers
And to give it the cinematic opportunity that it deserves. Because we were talking to Ariana last week on the pod, and one thing that struck me was when you're shooting it, it is. You're at work and you're shooting it. So there's the tape. You know what I mean? There's your mark, there's the guy with the camera. So then all of a sudden, it can feel easy to slip into. Oh, I'm at work, I'm doing the scene, I'm talking to my friend, I'm on my phone when I'm not. And then all of a sudden you see Oz.
[11:25]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes. And it's all together and everything. Like all of those miniature things that make it happen. All the stuff that, like, our semantics go away.
[11:34]
Matt Rogers
Yes.
[11:34]
Cynthia Erivo
And now, like, the thread is there.
[11:36]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[11:37]
Cynthia Erivo
And then you're like, sewn together.
[11:38]
Matt Rogers
Wow. We made a big fucking movie.
[11:41]
Cynthia Erivo
It's insane. The thing is huge. It's wild.
[11:45]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[11:45]
Cynthia Erivo
And, like, I keep going back, even I was in it. But I go back and I watch and I go, I didn't see that last time. Oh, my gosh. I didn't notice that that person did that. I didn't know that I was. Why did I roll my eyes at that point? When did he catch that? When did I do that? I don't remember. So you're catching up on all the things that you may have done in the moment that you didn't remember you even did or you didn't remember was there. And now all of a sudden you're like, oh, my God. That was. That is where I was.
[12:11]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[12:12]
Matt Rogers
And that's Alpha by now.
[12:13]
Cynthia Erivo
And that's right.
[12:14]
Matt Rogers
That is another thing is it's just like, you've contributed such a beautiful, strong, funny, powerful Alpha bot. And I wanted to ask specifically about one choice in the film, because this, to me was. This really is what blew people back in their train.
[12:32]
Bowen Yang
I know what we're gonna talk about.
[12:33]
Matt Rogers
So, so much said about Defying Gravity. And in that, the last note, right, the gut that you put in that note, that battle cry, that roar, is so different than the way you've approached vocally the rest of the performance. The whole time. Can you talk about that choice and, like, the collaboration with John on deciding how to make that Note, that Elphaba 2.0 that launches us into Wicked Part 2?
[13:00]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, we knew that for her, this was the beginning of her journey. Almost like the beginning of what we know will become the Wicked Witch.
[13:07]
Matt Rogers
The Wicked Witch.
[13:08]
Cynthia Erivo
But it had to be, for both of us, the release of everything, it had to be a roar. So I didn't necessarily want to make it pretty. So there has to be, like, a guttural. It has to come from that place. That's the beginning of, like, the rage and. And all of that grit. So we just were like, how. What do we want it to sound like for me? And each Elphaba has their own battle cry. Each Elphaba has their own raw. And I spent some time searching for what that felt like, what that could be. And the moment I did it and tried it, everyone was like, that's.
[13:40]
Matt Rogers
That's it.
[13:41]
Cynthia Erivo
That's it.
[13:41]
Bowen Yang
Because the rest of Elphaba in this. In Part one, the vocal sort of the quality and the timbre is so clean and it's so. And in a lot of ways, what we know to be like, Cynthia Erivo's voice is like. It's just so purity pure.
[13:53]
Matt Rogers
And there is like a. Like, it's. It's almost like it's always intimate. Like, you singing I'm not. That girl is such a beautiful. And you don't really understand when you watch it on stage. Obviously we enjoy the song, but when we can be really with you and you're singing it, it actually makes Defying Gravity even more heartbreaking. Like, that's why it's gonna be amazing to watch on a second, third, fourth, eighth, ninth, millionth time is because the arc, the journey, it really lands. And in that last note, like, I just can't wait for everyone to see it. That said, it should have been one movie. It's like, please keep watching it after that. We need a break. The curtain has dropped.
[14:36]
Cynthia Erivo
There's no way. There's no way. I love that people are so passionate and they're like, it should have been one movie. And I understand, but because we were there and we shot the second movie, there's not a chance. No, there's no way. There's no way it could be one movie. There's too much.
[14:52]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[14:53]
Bowen Yang
There's too much. And even, you know, there's something to be said about part one running in at a certain time, but it's like, it moves. And even then, I think even last night I was like, things can breathe even more if we let them. Like, a lot was cut out.
[15:08]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[15:08]
Bowen Yang
You know what I mean?
[15:08]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, yeah.
[15:09]
Bowen Yang
Like, a lot was like, oh, I guess we're trying to service the audience experience by, like, not making them sit there for too long. And yet it still came in at like 2 hours and 40 minutes or whatever.
[15:19]
Cynthia Erivo
That's it. Yeah. And we still never felt it was. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, can you imagine? We went on to the second.
[15:26]
Matt Rogers
No way.
[15:27]
Bowen Yang
No. I was like.
[15:28]
Matt Rogers
Because you couldn't move on to. Thank goodness at that point.
[15:32]
Bowen Yang
No, you can't.
[15:33]
Cynthia Erivo
It's impossible.
[15:34]
Matt Rogers
Without Defying Gravity. Suffering. And the rest of the movie after that. Suffering.
[15:38]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. Literally the second, everyone has to be like, I need to go away. We have to all go away.
[15:42]
Bowen Yang
Right?
[15:43]
Cynthia Erivo
You.
[15:43]
Bowen Yang
In a year.
[15:44]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. Let me process. Let me come back. Let me see again. Let me. You know, we'll see this. We'll get back.
[15:50]
Matt Rogers
Yeah, we'll get back.
[15:51]
Cynthia Erivo
And also, what's lovely about waiting for the second is that there is growth happening in that time. So what happens in a year is, like, the growth that happens totally for everyone that Comes back the second time around.
[16:04]
Bowen Yang
Time passes between the acts. Exactly.
[16:06]
Matt Rogers
And to. Just to speak about, like, how you don't want to let any moment not have its true expanse.
[16:14]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[16:15]
Matt Rogers
I think one of the most unforgettable moments I've seen in a film in a really long time. To speak on just this one segment is dancing through life.
[16:24]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[16:25]
Matt Rogers
When you come in and it's the hope and the, you know, this chance to have a real social moment and the disappointment and the realization that you've been tricked.
[16:35]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[16:36]
Matt Rogers
I just think that that entire sequence, I could get chills. I mean, I don't think there was a dry eye and that just.
[16:42]
Bowen Yang
If you had stayed for that last night, you would have crumbled. I'm telling. Not. Not that you're not a strong person.
[16:48]
Cynthia Erivo
What happened?
[16:49]
Bowen Yang
It's just pe.
[16:50]
Matt Rogers
They lose tough. Everyone.
[16:52]
Bowen Yang
It was a cacophony of sniffles and like, everyone was losing it.
[16:57]
Matt Rogers
It is a beautiful moment. And I wanted to ask about shooting that.
[17:01]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[17:02]
Matt Rogers
Like, that must have been so vulnerable and exposing and tough.
[17:06]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, it was. That was a hot. That was a hot day.
[17:09]
Matt Rogers
And I thought when you. When. When I was watching and I was like, I wonder where she's at.
[17:13]
Cynthia Erivo
Like, hard.
[17:14]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[17:15]
Cynthia Erivo
Because you have to process. I really understand Elphaba's ownership of loneliness and like, knowing she feels different, knowing she's not one of the. One of everybody else and. And deeply wanting to. You know, there's a part of us that all wants to be. We all want to be accepted even when we know that we can't or we're different and we're on the outside. I think that. Because I understood that that's where I'm in my head. So it just, you know, funneling all the things. All the times when I feel alone. All the times when you want to be accepted, all the times when you feel like you're on the outside on. All the times when it just. You just can't connect with everybody. And it's just that. That replays in your head and in your body as well. And when you're doing something like that, where you are really on your own, the loneliness is really loud. So you just have to process all of that. And that's what happened. And every time I could, it was like, the more you do it, the deeper you go. The deeper you go, the deeper you go. So by the time I think he got that shot, it was like. There was like nothing. It was just. I couldn't hold anything. Yeah.
[18:28]
Bowen Yang
Well, my memory of it Is that every single setup, every single take, you gave it a perfectly calibrated, vulnerable, raw thing. And it was really beautiful to watch. And also very difficult. And I can't. So if it was difficult for me to just even stand by the wayside, like, I can't imagine the sort of buckling and the. And all that. That you were giving in service to this project. And like, that is. That is, I think, like, the takeaway for everybody for this movie is that, like, this film is telling this huge Universal story, but then for the performer, for Cynthia to be the vessel of Elphaba, this character, like, you gave it so much. You gave so much of yourself. And I remember you at the end of that sort of segment of shooting that you turned to everybody and thanked them, and we just all applauded. And it was just such a beautiful. Yeah, loving moment of sort of communion because we had all sort of been through it in a way.
[19:28]
Cynthia Erivo
With me, yeah, I felt really supported and held.
[19:32]
Matt Rogers
Like, it felt genuine care.
[19:34]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. It felt like there was the most amazing energy in the room. It felt like, you know, and there's like a circle of, like.
[19:41]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[19:42]
Cynthia Erivo
Strength. Everyone. We all have to do what we have to do. But actually, in the core of everyone's heart, I could feel, like, energy. Just hold the circle, Keep the energy, keep the space. And there was such respect for what was going on and what needed to happen. No one was too loud. No. It was all, like, quiet when it needs to be quiet, and space when there needed to be space. And I felt so loved, so taken care of during that, that to have finished without saying thank you would have been impossible because I knew that it's hard enough for me to play the person who is alone and going through that. But I think it. It's just as hard to play anyone who has to reject someone who is that as well. Because also I was aware that so many people on that set are versions of Elphaba, you know?
[20:31]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[20:31]
Cynthia Erivo
We're all the queer kids who are out, you know, and who are pushed on the outside. So everyone in that room is sort of watching a version of themselves in this moment. I just, like. That's something that came to me when I had finished and I looked around, I was like, we all understand this.
[20:50]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[20:51]
Cynthia Erivo
And so to have to play the people who are rejecting it must also be deeply difficult to deal with.
[20:57]
Matt Rogers
Very hard thing to also sit in that emotion of guilt and shame that you have allowed someone to feel this way, which is why it's such a moment for glinda. As well.
[21:06]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[21:06]
Matt Rogers
You know what I mean? It's like, that is the scene that solidifies the relationship because it is both of you confronting the way you really feel.
[21:13]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[21:13]
Matt Rogers
And then it launches into Popular, which is so joyful and so expressive and colorful, but it's just so successful.
[21:22]
Cynthia Erivo
Thank you.
[21:22]
Bowen Yang
Two things.
[21:23]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[21:24]
Bowen Yang
Thank you for acknowledging. Even though it's a fraction of what you had to go through on a performance level, like, there was something, I remember, like, in the circle where between takes, like, we would just turn to each other and be like, it feels really bad for us to, like, snicker and laugh at this person. And we had to do that take after take. And then I remember coming up to you a bunch and being like, how are you doing? I'm so sorry.
[21:45]
Matt Rogers
I'm so sorry.
[21:46]
Bowen Yang
To him, I was like, it feels so unnatural for me, a gay man, to bully. Cynthia Erivo. I'm like, this is so wrong. And then the second thing, which is what Matt's saying, I'm, like, launching into Popular. I remember John turned to me last night and was just like, it's so great how the audience is immediately in love with Glynda and Elphaba as friends. The second dancing life is done. And that's just. It just comes from that moment, you know, it's lovely.
[22:10]
Cynthia Erivo
I love my favorite part of that scene. In between Dancing Through Life, the Ozdust and Popular, the scene that we have in the bedroom, I think it's just such a tender, sweet scene. Ari and I were saying that the two of them are so awkward. They're, like, figuring it out.
[22:27]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[22:28]
Matt Rogers
How do we hang out?
[22:29]
Cynthia Erivo
How do we hang out? Yeah. Like, Elphaba's never been at a sleepover before, so she's, like, kind of awkward and not really, like, doesn't really know what to do. And Glinda's, I think, also equally awkward. Like, how do I hang out with this person and how do I share the space? And they're sort of figuring it out, and the way they, like, undulate and figure it out together and then finally, like, land on the floor and then it's, you know, it's tomorrow.
[22:51]
Bowen Yang
It's tomorrow.
[22:52]
Cynthia Erivo
I just love how they find their way to that in Popularity. I think it's. That's the journey for them. They find each other.
[23:00]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[23:01]
Cynthia Erivo
And, you know, for Elphaba to give that sort of. She confides in, it's sort of like, I trust you. I'm going to trust you with this thing that I don't think I Don't think Elphaba's told anyone that story, to be honest. I think it's the first time she's voiced it, and I think there's just a really wonderful moment of them deciding to trust each other.
[23:21]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. To speak on the collaboration between you and Ariana. So I would imagine you get this part, and do you find out pretty immediately that the role will be played by Ariana Grande or soon after?
[23:32]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, I don't think I found out on the call, but I think I found out soon after, maybe like a day after. And they let me know what was going on, and I was like, oh, that makes sense.
[23:41]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. So is it that, like, you know, you're up for it? And do you hear who's up for the other thing?
[23:47]
Cynthia Erivo
I mean, don't tell me a damn thing.
[23:48]
Matt Rogers
Don't tell me anything.
[23:49]
Cynthia Erivo
Don't tell me anything. I didn't want to know. I don't want to know who was going up for it. I didn't want to even know until they needed me to come in. I said, give me no information. Give me nothing. I don't want to know. Yes, tell me if they actually want me to come in. That's all I want to know.
[24:04]
Bowen Yang
Right.
[24:05]
Matt Rogers
Got it.
[24:05]
Cynthia Erivo
And they didn't. I said, I don't care who's going in. I don't want to know when and if they want me, then I will know.
[24:13]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[24:13]
Cynthia Erivo
That's all I wanted.
[24:14]
Matt Rogers
Meaning the audition or actually playing the role?
[24:16]
Cynthia Erivo
The audition, the whole thing.
[24:18]
Matt Rogers
So this is wild to me that Cynthia Eriva would have to audition for anything just because it's like, well, clearly, we know this is gonna be brilliant, but you do have to audition, and when you do. Do you sing Defying Gravity?
[24:31]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[24:32]
Matt Rogers
Wow.
[24:32]
Cynthia Erivo
You sing Defying Gravity. You sing the wizard, and I. You sing for good. You do a bunch of scenes. But they were really, really respectful. I actually think what happened was, because I think I was the last to come in. John and I had had a couple of conversations, and then I waited the couple weeks, and then they came back with, we want you to come in. And it was a camera test, essentially. So I was there for three hours, my audition, and that was the one and only thing I came in to do. I think they were deeply, deeply respectful. I think John had teed it up for me to. It was mine to lose. God, actually, I feel like he gave me the most amazing platform to come in and do my work and then let it be. And I think that's probably why. But I love That I got the chance to come in and show how much I wanted it and show how much it meant to me. And I was prepared to come in a couple times if they needed me to because I think the role deserves that.
[25:31]
Matt Rogers
Right.
[25:32]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, I think the role needs it. It's not enough to want to come in because you can sing. It's not enough to come in because you can act. I think there are layers that he was looking for. And I remember when he said the thing that swung it for him was the way I did the wizard and I. He said there was like a vulnerability that I hadn't seen in the other roles, like a youthful, hopeful energy that the other roles don't permit, don't give you the chance to do. Harriet does not give you the chance to do.
[26:02]
Matt Rogers
Right.
[26:02]
Cynthia Erivo
And because there's so much more depth, it's like deep and hard and, you know, resilient. And Belle, who is in Widows, doesn't. It's not that. Oh, you know what I mean, you're fantastic with Widows, but it's a different energy.
[26:19]
Matt Rogers
So in a way this is really showing a totally new side of you.
[26:23]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. And so I think he was. He wanted to see like the wide eyed openness that I have, but I don't necessarily get the chance to share.
[26:32]
Matt Rogers
Right.
[26:32]
Cynthia Erivo
And the wizard and I gave that energy to him.
[26:36]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[26:37]
Cynthia Erivo
So I was just, I think I was lucky that he allowed me to express that and show it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[26:44]
Matt Rogers
And also what it takes to hold the responsibility of playing something so iconic is something that you've done several times. I was thinking about, you know, your, like, you know, Harriet, like Aretha Franklin Sealy, you know, I mean, like these come with.
[27:01]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[27:02]
Matt Rogers
Scrutiny. Yes. But also responsibility and history. And so I was wondering, because this seems like a pattern, does that excite you or is this like happenstance that these happen to be like these iconic things or do you find that you're like. Yeah, that thing that everyone's gonna watch, examine. I'm not afraid of that. I want to run to that. Are you running to these things?
[27:26]
Cynthia Erivo
I think by accident I'm running to them because I'm not necessarily running to them because I know that people are watching or inspecting them. I think I'm running to them because they're the most interesting people to play.
[27:37]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[27:37]
Cynthia Erivo
The ones who have depth and history and there's complexity in it all the way around. I just think they're interesting characters first and foremost. They're people who have wants and needs and maybe there are parts of them that maybe haven't been discovered. And I wanna, like, open them up even more and play and learn them even more. I think I'm intrigued by that.
[27:59]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[27:59]
Cynthia Erivo
And then the layer of like, oh, but also, so many people know about this person.
[28:05]
Matt Rogers
Right.
[28:06]
Cynthia Erivo
And so many people are invested in.
[28:08]
Matt Rogers
This person and projecting onto that person. Yes.
[28:10]
Bowen Yang
Real or fictional?
[28:11]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes. Yes.
[28:12]
Bowen Yang
How much of, I would say, like the initial gut level Alphabet in the audition do you think was retained by the final product?
[28:21]
Cynthia Erivo
I think maybe about 60%.
[28:25]
Bowen Yang
Wow.
[28:26]
Cynthia Erivo
And I learned a lot when I was there.
[28:28]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[28:29]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[28:29]
Bowen Yang
Because you know what I love? I've heard you talk about how a lot of roles you approach. You start with the walk.
[28:35]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[28:36]
Bowen Yang
And I love how you. How you kind of the opening shots of Elphaba are of her walk.
[28:41]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[28:42]
Bowen Yang
You literally start on the close up of the shoes, of the feet as she sets foot on shiz. And I think from those immediately you understand that your take on Elphaba is really new and beautiful. It's like she's not like, drab or, like, awkward or uncomfortable. She's very self assured. She's there to support her sister. And in that first monologue where we're all gawking at you like, oh, my God, who's she? You're like, okay, in a way. And I love and celebrate as we're talking about the Elphabas of yore, it's like, there is such a wonderful blueprint of how this has been. And for you to, like, honor that and also sort of divert is really special. And I feel like that must have come from, like, your experience with playing all these very different women.
[29:26]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[29:27]
Bowen Yang
Ambitious women.
[29:28]
Cynthia Erivo
And it was, you know, it's like, it's not on purpose to be like, I'm gonna change everything now. No, I just. Once I put her shoes on and I think because of my own understanding and everyone has a different understanding of what it is to be different and what it feels like to be sort of like on the outside. I just thought to myself, she's been in the skin for her whole life. It's not new for her. People staring at her. It's not new for her. People having a weird, like, reaction to her. Not new.
[29:57]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[29:58]
Cynthia Erivo
Her needing to be the support for her sister. Not new.
[30:00]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[30:01]
Cynthia Erivo
Her getting yelled at by her father. Not new. It's like, this is all stuff that she's been through already and has, like, it's in her skin, in her DNA.
[30:10]
Matt Rogers
It's the assignment of her life to deal with this bullshit.
[30:13]
Cynthia Erivo
So, like, the Choice is I'm either gonna be mad my whole life or I'm gonna get to the joke before everybody else does.
[30:21]
Matt Rogers
Right.
[30:22]
Cynthia Erivo
And if I can get to the joke before everyone else does, and it is a form of defense, if I get there before everybody else, then I can't be hurt. They're already behind.
[30:30]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[30:31]
Cynthia Erivo
So. Okay.
[30:33]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[30:33]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[30:34]
Cynthia Erivo
I'm not this, I'm not that.
[30:35]
Matt Rogers
You can't call me weird if I.
[30:37]
Cynthia Erivo
If I already say it myself. I know what I'm in. I know what I look like, I know what I'm. Where I've been, and I know what you're thinking.
[30:44]
Bowen Yang
Right.
[30:45]
Cynthia Erivo
Like my. One of my favorite lines when you first meet her is, here's my sister Nessa. And she's a perfectly acceptable color, like, because no one else says, oh, this is. We don't. She already knows.
[30:55]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[30:55]
Cynthia Erivo
She knows what. That's what everyone's thinking.
[30:57]
Bowen Yang
Right?
[30:57]
Cynthia Erivo
And it's like, she said it like, oh, here we go. You know?
[31:00]
Bowen Yang
Totally.
[31:01]
Cynthia Erivo
And I think that's how she functions.
[31:04]
Matt Rogers
Is that a defense mechanism that you relate to?
[31:06]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[31:07]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[31:07]
Cynthia Erivo
You get there first.
[31:08]
Bowen Yang
Always. You get there first.
[31:10]
Cynthia Erivo
You get there first.
[31:10]
Matt Rogers
It's a queer thing.
[31:11]
Bowen Yang
I think it's a queer thing. And like, it works on some level. Until it doesn't. Until you're at the Oz dust.
[31:16]
Cynthia Erivo
Right.
[31:16]
Matt Rogers
It's just self defense. Until you're building a weapon.
[31:19]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[31:19]
Bowen Yang
Oh, my gosh. Charlie.
[31:21]
Matt Rogers
Xcx. And Lord.
[31:23]
Bowen Yang
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[31:42]
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[32:03]
Bowen Yang
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[32:10]
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[32:22]
Bowen Yang
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[32:42]
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[32:46]
Matt Rogers
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[32:58]
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[33:06]
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[33:38]
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[34:29]
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[35:46]
Bowen Yang
I'm not gonna spoil something, but like there was a moment at a very critical juncture of this film where there's like an inner child healing moment.
[35:54]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[35:54]
Bowen Yang
And it is executed so every emotional beat of this movie lands. Which is not to say that the rest of the movie like doesn't work on any level. It's just the underpinnings of this movie are purely emotional. And that's like a testament to you and this moment of the inner child.
[36:12]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[36:13]
Bowen Yang
For a long time I kind of rolled my eyes at that concept.
[36:15]
Matt Rogers
Wow.
[36:15]
Bowen Yang
Oh, you have to like what is like inner child. I talked to the young version of myself. Eye roll. Something about this movie really like cracked me the fuck open with that concept. You know what I mean?
[36:26]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[36:26]
Bowen Yang
And it's like what you're saying with like, oh, Elphaba, we all kind of grow up with these.
[36:30]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. It's because you don't think that. Cause throughout the movie the inner child is not on the outside.
[36:37]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[36:37]
Cynthia Erivo
And I think that's actually how most of us function. Like, we don't realize that we're all healing like deep seated wounds that are on the children that we were.
[36:45]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[36:46]
Cynthia Erivo
But it's never usually it's not obvious. We don't know. And I don't even think she knows until she knows.
[36:52]
Bowen Yang
Until she knows.
[36:53]
Cynthia Erivo
You know, she remembers certain things and there are things that we like that she keeps to herself and it shows up in like flickers and when she gets yelled at by her father, it's like an immediate sort of like call to what has been. And. But she doesn't. There's no real acknowledgement until she has to acknowledge that that's what she's running Away from. And that that's what she has to move towards.
[37:12]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[37:13]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[37:15]
Bowen Yang
Oh, my God.
[37:15]
Matt Rogers
As you were sitting here, it's just so funny because I had a moment where I started to get a little emotional because I'm remembering, and this is a little bit of a left turn, but when you performed I'm Here on the Tony Awards. Yeah, that was. I believe it was a couple days or maybe the day after Pulse. And I just remember how much that meant to me and to so many people. It felt like you were putting a warm blanket over everyone. So I guess just like, thank you for the gift of that performance. Like, retroactively now, years later, but also in terms of, like, being given these opportunities to give these live performances. Because we mentioned Alfie earlier, you know, nothing compares. It's another opportunity that is very high stress that you seem to be running towards. And I would. She's a runner.
[38:06]
Cynthia Erivo
I am.
[38:07]
Matt Rogers
She's a runner. She runs. We saw Widows. But, like, again, those opportunities which will probably come forever, do they excite you? How are you feeling in the moments of receiving offers to do things like that, receiving calls to do things like that, in the moment of doing things.
[38:24]
Cynthia Erivo
Like that, when it comes to. As a singer, I do go towards them because I feel like if I wasn't meant to, they wouldn't come my way. And I think there are moments of great responsibility to connect with people. I know people say that actors, we're not saving lives, but I think that there is an aspect of maybe we can heal a couple of people.
[38:45]
Matt Rogers
Singing is different. Music is different.
[38:47]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes. We can crack people open. We can, like, connect. We can help you connect with things that you might not have thought of. We can help you heal a little thing and think of something. And I feel like that's my duty. That's my work. That's the grander design of the gift that I've been given to sing. So when opportunities like that come, singing at the Kennedy center, of course I'm going to stand there and give Dior more flowers. Of course I'm going to share with her the moment that I really fell in love with her. The fact that her voice is the seminal voice for Alfie. For me, you know, I want to connect with her on that, you know, of course I'm going to sing. I think there was a performance of I'm Here that I had to do after, like, the last crazy election that we had to do, and people were, like, in tears. I knew that I had to go to work to be like, hey, we're okay. And I was asked to sing Imagine at the GLAAD Awards after Pulse, in dedication to. Of course I'm going to come in and sing that because we're going to be okay.
[39:56]
Matt Rogers
Do you feel that way?
[39:57]
Cynthia Erivo
I do.
[39:57]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[39:58]
Cynthia Erivo
I do. I really believe that that is my work and to validate people's feelings, the feelings that we have through music. I really think that there is a bigger purpose at hand when you have a voice, when you can use music to connect with people. It's not enough to just sing a song. What is the point?
[40:21]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[40:21]
Cynthia Erivo
But if you can use music and tune and notes and lyric to connect, to validate a person's feelings, to send them off and feeling better, to tell them that we'll move through this, it's going to be okay. That this is a gateway to healing. I'm happy to do that. I'll do it.
[40:42]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. It's funny because your performance of Alfie, I always knew the song.
[40:46]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[40:46]
Matt Rogers
You know what I mean? But it was like I was hearing it for the first time, and it was so funny because, like, I had gone through a situation with someone and didn't realize that that song was speaking to that experience until I was. And it actually empowered me because it's like, I know what love is, really is. You know what I mean? And it's twofold. It's you expressing and telling that story, but also honoring her.
[41:14]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[41:14]
Matt Rogers
And I wonder, like, did you have a conversation with Ms. Warwick afterwards?
[41:17]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[41:18]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[41:18]
Cynthia Erivo
She's very happy.
[41:19]
Matt Rogers
Good. She's tough.
[41:20]
Cynthia Erivo
She's very happy. She's tough. But she was happy.
[41:22]
Matt Rogers
Good.
[41:23]
Cynthia Erivo
She was happy. She said, no, you didn't need to sing it like that.
[41:25]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[41:27]
Cynthia Erivo
I was like, well, be careful now. I was like, thank you. Thank you very much.
[41:31]
Matt Rogers
Major moments.
[41:32]
Cynthia Erivo
Thank you. Yeah. She was happy. And they could see her up in the box, and she was, like, verklempt and, you know, tearful. And I was like, okay.
[41:39]
Matt Rogers
I'm doing the thing of them. Watching you in that type of arena.
[41:43]
Cynthia Erivo
Too, is so wild, it's insane.
[41:45]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[41:46]
Cynthia Erivo
The Kennedy center is something that is so grand. It's one of those. You have to figure out how to fill the room. And for me, I have to fill the room standing in one spot. That's what I do. I stand and sing. And so every detail for me is like, what's the dress? That's not the right one. We need this. And what's the orchestration? We need disc orchestration. No, we're not going to if we rush this and we make this two beats too fast, it's not going to. It won't land the way. We need breath, we need space. And I had spoken to the orchestrator, Lenny, who is amazing. I said, do not. Do not start this until I am set at the mic and I take a breath. We have to reset. I need a reset before we begin. And he didn't, because the production wanted me to. They wanted the music to start before I.
[42:33]
Matt Rogers
Cause they want it to move.
[42:34]
Bowen Yang
They're thinking, this is a lot of.
[42:36]
Cynthia Erivo
You dare.
[42:37]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. We can edit it.
[42:38]
Cynthia Erivo
You dare. You wait.
[42:40]
Bowen Yang
It's a hospitality principle. It's like you have to be unreasonable about the way you make people feel.
[42:45]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[42:45]
Bowen Yang
And that is what you are doing. And I loved this interview that you and Renee Rapp had at Electric Leave. I love that you guys are relating about being Capricorns. Like, this is, I think, is this part of Capricorn identity, Like having this sort of vision, having the conviction to tell yourself, like, this is what my charge is. Yes, this.
[43:03]
Cynthia Erivo
This is the charge. This is the job. This is how I'm going to do it. Very clear about that. Yeah.
[43:09]
Bowen Yang
Cause this thing of you guys talking about how, like, you need to believe it sounds, and I'm just saying rolling my eyes at myself at this. It's like I always didn't really quite believe the idea of, like, you gotta believe in yourself or else nobody else will. It's like. But then, like, it doesn't make any sense any other way.
[43:24]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[43:24]
Bowen Yang
You know what I mean? That has to be the sequence of things in order for you to, like, do what you guys do. Yes.
[43:31]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. Because there are literally times where only you believe the thing that is going to happen for you and there's no one else. But why should anyone else believe if you don't like why? There's no reason to. But if you know and have a clarity about what it is you're meant to do and what you're. And how you're meant to do it, then it's easy for someone else to see it.
[43:50]
Matt Rogers
Right.
[43:51]
Cynthia Erivo
Cause you can see it. Yeah.
[43:53]
Matt Rogers
You talk about getting involved with the Color Purple in a sort of not lo fi, but like, not necessarily a production in England that seemed like it was gonna do what it would. You consider that to be the biggest risk you've taken is, like, really going for that role on that scale.
[44:10]
Cynthia Erivo
I don't think it was a risk at all. I was so sure that I was meant to be doing it. I was so sure and it could have been in, I don't know, someone's front room.
[44:20]
Matt Rogers
Size of the stage did not matter.
[44:22]
Cynthia Erivo
Did not matter. I just knew if it was coming, I was meant to do it. I was so clear about it. There was not one part of me that was like, well, this is risky. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I was. No. I was so sure about it.
[44:33]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[44:34]
Bowen Yang
You were on tourist distract. You heard that. It was. It was like they were seeing people for it.
[44:38]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes. And then I said, I want to play the role.
[44:39]
Bowen Yang
Dang.
[44:39]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[44:40]
Bowen Yang
I'm going to be doing that.
[44:40]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. And everyone else was like, but are you sure? Like, what if they ask you to do, like, first cover? I was like, no, no, no. I want to play the role.
[44:48]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[44:48]
Cynthia Erivo
I know that the role is what I'm supposed to be doing, and the first cover is amazing, but this is the role I want. I know. I'm so sure about it. This is what I want.
[44:58]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. I have to be like that.
[45:00]
Bowen Yang
What is that? Is that intellectual, emotional? Like, where does that.
[45:04]
Cynthia Erivo
I think it's both. I think it's like a. In the first instant, it was like a guttural, emotional knowledge.
[45:11]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[45:12]
Cynthia Erivo
Then it became, how am I going to do it? How am I going to do it?
[45:14]
Bowen Yang
Yes. Yes.
[45:15]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[45:16]
Bowen Yang
I love this.
[45:17]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[45:17]
Bowen Yang
So much. Oh, my God.
[45:19]
Cynthia Erivo
As much of my life is like this.
[45:21]
Bowen Yang
No. But this is like, look where it's gotten you. I know.
[45:23]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. You know, like, the emotion is there and, like, the feeling is there. And then task.
[45:29]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[45:29]
Cynthia Erivo
How do we do this?
[45:30]
Bowen Yang
It's not holding you back in any way. So, like, what's wrong with that?
[45:33]
Cynthia Erivo
True.
[45:34]
Bowen Yang
You know.
[45:34]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[45:35]
Matt Rogers
How do you unwind? What do you do to, like, chill?
[45:38]
Cynthia Erivo
I need a sleepy time tea.
[45:40]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[45:41]
Cynthia Erivo
I love a tea. I will carry a tea with me everywhere I go. But it's bedtime. I get, you know, I get myself in my PJs. I like a particular PJ. Like, I will wear an outfit to bed. You know, I love to dress.
[45:52]
Bowen Yang
It's a look very French European thing.
[45:54]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. I have to dress. My perfume. I get nighttime routine. Full nighttime routine, the whole thing. Okay. Then I will, like, get cozy. I'll put on a movie or a TV show.
[46:06]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[46:07]
Cynthia Erivo
Before bed. And then I'll journal and then sleep. That's my thing.
[46:10]
Matt Rogers
Do you watch comedies or do you like.
[46:12]
Cynthia Erivo
I'm like comedies or, like light dramas.
[46:15]
Matt Rogers
Light dramas. Nothing crazy.
[46:17]
Cynthia Erivo
Nothing crazy.
[46:18]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[46:18]
Cynthia Erivo
I can't. You know people who watch like 60 minutes before bed or, like, the first 24 hours. 48 hours. I don't know how you do it. No, it's too much for me. I don't want to watch that. Of course, daytime for me and watching those things, but for me, it's nighttime. Like something lightfare, fun, something that lifts. And then to bed.
[46:37]
Bowen Yang
To bed. And then up at what, 5am sometimes.
[46:40]
Cynthia Erivo
Between 5 and 7 to run, to walk, to Pilates, whatever. I have to do something.
[46:46]
Bowen Yang
You and Michelle Yeoh every day on set, on production of Wicked. Just the most godly people, both of you. Getting up, doing your runs, doing your workouts. I'm like, I need to get my shit together. I was so in awe.
[47:03]
Cynthia Erivo
But there was no other way to do this role.
[47:05]
Bowen Yang
You think so?
[47:06]
Cynthia Erivo
I just. I couldn't. I needed. I needed the physical movement.
[47:09]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[47:10]
Cynthia Erivo
Not just for, like, the actual physicality of it, but for the emotion of it all. I needed to be physical because I needed to make sure my body was ready for the, like, the flight work. All that harness work doesn't work if you haven't got your core together. If you haven't got your body together, it really does have to get ready for what kind of onslaught you get when you're in a harness and flight.
[47:29]
Bowen Yang
And battle and singing.
[47:30]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[47:31]
Bowen Yang
I have a question, and I think we can talk about this. So we basically had 12 days left of shooting, and then SAG strike happened. And I will say that the way things were segmented, Defying Gravity was the last. Was the last thing that was. So I'm thinking, wow, Cynthia is holding onto this and considering this, and it's all leading up to, like, this thing that is going to be talked about and will be very difficult to pull up. And it's a collaborative thing with you and with Jon and with everybody. And then the strike happens.
[48:07]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[48:08]
Bowen Yang
Wild. Wild. Sort of like stoppage. You're not disrupted.
[48:13]
Cynthia Erivo
I cross the bridge and then you don't cross.
[48:15]
Bowen Yang
Exactly. What was that like for you? What was it like to go back to it?
[48:20]
Cynthia Erivo
At first it started off like torture. Like. Cause I was. I felt like I was ready.
[48:25]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[48:25]
Cynthia Erivo
Cause we had gotten right there, and I was like, okay, we're ready. I'm ready. Like, I'm game fit. I'm good to do this. And then I had to accept we weren't coming back quickly. But you don't let go of. They don't go anywhere. The character's sort of, like, sitting in. You sort of like. So I'm still, like, getting my body ready, working out, working like I'm still on set, but not on set.
[48:46]
Bowen Yang
But not on set.
[48:47]
Cynthia Erivo
So I'm, like, doing all those things, trying to, like, feed my body, making sure that I'm working out the way I need to work out, making sure that I'm keeping my voice the way I need it to be and, like, checking in and. But also having to let it go just a little bit so that I don't drive myself insane, because it's still there and I'm still waiting. And also, there's, like, the anticipation of having to do it. It never really left until we get. Until we come back. And when I come back, I was like, ready? Yeah, ready to do it, you know?
[49:17]
Bowen Yang
And then I get ill. Oh, I forgot about this.
[49:22]
Matt Rogers
What happened?
[49:22]
Cynthia Erivo
Just the worst kind of flu you could possibly have.
[49:24]
Matt Rogers
Oh.
[49:25]
Cynthia Erivo
I mean, my skin was hurting.
[49:27]
Bowen Yang
What?
[49:28]
Cynthia Erivo
It was horrible. The day after my birthday, I was in on my birthday, rehearsing and training for flying the next day. Totaled.
[49:38]
Bowen Yang
Totaled. I remember I had wrapped, and then I came back to New York, and then they were like, she's Cynthia Sec. I was like, God, this. Let this woman live.
[49:49]
Matt Rogers
She can't know peace.
[49:50]
Bowen Yang
Let this woman know peace.
[49:51]
Cynthia Erivo
I was. I was. And when I say, you have. I was so sick, like, running a fever. The fever would break, then the fever would come back again.
[50:01]
Matt Rogers
Concerning sick.
[50:02]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[50:02]
Matt Rogers
I was, like, demoralizing.
[50:04]
Cynthia Erivo
When is this gonna stop? Yeah, it just went on for, like, a week. A whole week, Week and a half. I was done down. So I was like, okay, when are we gonna do this?
[50:16]
Bowen Yang
Right?
[50:17]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[50:17]
Cynthia Erivo
Cause at this point, I'm annoyed with myself. I'm like, why is this happening now?
[50:23]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[50:24]
Bowen Yang
I mean, is there something in retrospect now where you're like, God, it was like, one last mountain to scale or something?
[50:29]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, I think so. I think it's weird. I think the universe was forcing me to earn it. Really earn it. Wow. So that when I really got there.
[50:37]
Matt Rogers
The universe needs to relax.
[50:38]
Cynthia Erivo
I know, but she's always doing the most. Always doing the most. Always making me earn shit. Like, leave me alone for a second, please, Because I'm always working.
[50:49]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[50:50]
Matt Rogers
Yes.
[50:51]
Cynthia Erivo
But, like, it really was that last sort of like, let's see. Do you really want to do this? It really felt like that. And so when we got here, I was like, right, right. Let's go. Let's do this. Yeah.
[51:03]
Bowen Yang
You fucking earned it. That's all we can say.
[51:05]
Cynthia Erivo
Thank you.
[51:06]
Bowen Yang
But, God, it is. This is what I'm telling people. This is my little press quote, my favorite last 10 minutes. Of a film in cinema history.
[51:14]
Matt Rogers
It's epic.
[51:15]
Cynthia Erivo
Thank you.
[51:15]
Bowen Yang
And I will say, and people know the story. Like, I think watching again last night, I was like, oh my God. Cynthia is so dialed in. Every single frame of the levels of betrayal that are setting in in that moment when you find out what you were brought to do. I was like, every moment of this, when you walk to the grimory, when you take it with you, when you run away, I'm like, it's all perfect. It's all perfect, Cynthia.
[51:39]
Cynthia Erivo
And Jon just let me go. He just was like, here's where you're moving to.
[51:43]
Bowen Yang
Yep. Just go. We'll follow you.
[51:45]
Cynthia Erivo
We'll follow you.
[51:52]
Bowen Yang
JBL Tour Pro 3 earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard.
[51:56]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. I mean, if you want to get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case? Clear sound. These are not standard things. You're only going to get them with the JBL Tour Pro 3, baby.
[52:08]
Bowen Yang
And I love the sound of JBL and goes, these earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others.
[52:16]
Matt Rogers
Touchscreen smart charging case for one touch control, instant EQ customization, True adaptive noise canceling and the one of a kind audio transmitter which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in flight entertainment. What more could you want first doesn't follow. Grab a pair@jbl.com.
[52:36]
Bowen Yang
What did it feel? Can I ask what it felt like when it was a picture app?
[52:40]
Cynthia Erivo
I crumbled because I was the last one on the set. I was the last one out.
[52:46]
Bowen Yang
Wow.
[52:46]
Cynthia Erivo
And I can't even describe the feeling because it was, you know, when the only time I felt similar was the last show for the Color Purple where, you know, you're carrying something for a really long time and like happy to carry it. Like it's the best possible weight you could. You can hold. And you're like, this is. I'm carrying. It's part of me.
[53:12]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[53:12]
Cynthia Erivo
And then that you hear it, you. It's closed. Or that wrap. And it's like someone takes the weight from you and puts it down.
[53:21]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[53:22]
Cynthia Erivo
It was like putting a piece of myself down for a bit. And it was so quiet that last shot because we'd finished shooting Defying gravity and they had like just one little incident tissue left. And it was just like me lifting flowers in a hall or something. And I just was like, it was so quiet and it felt right for.
[53:42]
Bowen Yang
It to be quiet.
[53:43]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. I think.
[53:44]
Matt Rogers
Do you think in those moments because it's Alphabet because it's silly. The reason why it means so much is because you're genuinely saying goodbye to that character. I would imagine that silly is not something you'll revisit.
[53:57]
Bowen Yang
No. Yeah. And literally not, like, probably not Alphabet. Unless it's for, like, a Universal Studios ride. You know what I mean? Not to bring that up, but it's like, that's true. And that will be.
[54:08]
Cynthia Erivo
That will be saying bye to really close friends. Yeah, yeah.
[54:13]
Matt Rogers
So I would imagine, like, these things, that they have impact, but really, it's like. Because it's personal. That's what it is. It's like.
[54:22]
Cynthia Erivo
It's like taking care of a person for a real long time. It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[54:26]
Bowen Yang
It's grief.
[54:27]
Cynthia Erivo
I cried for, like, hours after that.
[54:29]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[54:30]
Cynthia Erivo
I couldn't, like, get rid of the feeling. And the day after was so weird. I just didn't even know what to do with myself.
[54:35]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[54:36]
Bowen Yang
How could you not?
[54:36]
Matt Rogers
And it has probably nothing to do with, oh, this moment. Maybe I could have done this.
[54:41]
Bowen Yang
That.
[54:41]
Matt Rogers
It's genuinely a. It's like a human relationship.
[54:43]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, taking the green off for the first time was, wow.
[54:49]
Bowen Yang
Wow.
[54:49]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[54:50]
Cynthia Erivo
Oh, I'm not doing this again.
[54:52]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[54:52]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[54:53]
Matt Rogers
And you probably get used to that in some regard with theater, you know, because you. That's the thing about being in this business that I think is one of the things that takes at least me by surprise. And I would imagine everyone is, oh, I come in here and I make really great relationships. And then they do end. You know, you maintain those people in your life. Like, you'll always be friends with so and so, and you'll always have that memory. But you don't go to work again like everyone else does.
[55:24]
Cynthia Erivo
No, no, no.
[55:24]
Matt Rogers
And so it's not. It's not just those people. It's that person you play when you put so much into it.
[55:29]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. I guess for Elphaba, particularly, because she's such a transformation, because I do spend, like, three hours getting her together in the morning.
[55:38]
Matt Rogers
Right.
[55:38]
Cynthia Erivo
You know, she doesn't. Like, you have to care to put her together.
[55:42]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[55:43]
Cynthia Erivo
And then she appears. You know, I really was like, oh, I'm letting someone go. Like, I'm never going to see this person again. It's not like, you know, Celie's wonderful, but she had my face. You know, I didn't have to really put her on. And you put her on, but it's like a wig and an outfit. Elphaba was a complete transformation. I disappeared when Elphaba came into the room.
[56:07]
Bowen Yang
It was a beautiful construction. Like a crafts. Yeah, Like a work of crafts person.
[56:12]
Cynthia Erivo
Everyone. The amount of work that went to putting her together, the people that, you know, the relationships you make with those people who are with you for two and a half hours before anyone else sees you in the morning at the crack of dawn.
[56:27]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[56:28]
Cynthia Erivo
And then at the end of the night, they helped sweetly take her off again and you put to bed. But this last time. That was the last time.
[56:35]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. Because she existed for a while.
[56:38]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[56:38]
Matt Rogers
And now she does exist, but, like, in that way. But, yeah, I understand what you're saying. Fascinating.
[56:44]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[56:44]
Matt Rogers
We have to ask you the central question of our podcast.
[56:47]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[56:48]
Matt Rogers
So do you want to pose the question?
[56:49]
Bowen Yang
Yes. Cynthia Riva, what is the culture that made you say culture is, for me, the formative kind of cultural thing that made you who you are.
[56:57]
Cynthia Erivo
The cultural thing that made me who I. I guess music. The culture of music. Because there is a culture of it. I think that's the thing that. I actually think it's the first language I learned. I think it's the first thing I understood. My mum says that I was singing when I was 2.
[57:15]
Bowen Yang
Wow.
[57:15]
Cynthia Erivo
And I was putting words together, but, like, you're still figuring out sentence structure when you're two.
[57:21]
Matt Rogers
But I knew communicating and music made.
[57:25]
Bowen Yang
More sense on you tune.
[57:27]
Matt Rogers
Oh, interesting.
[57:28]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. Wow. That's, I think, made me very much who I am.
[57:32]
Bowen Yang
And then would you say there was like a moment of understanding on a technique or a technical level what it was?
[57:39]
Cynthia Erivo
I think when I was about 11, I really understood it. I knew I could make the sound when I was about 5, and between 5 and the age of, like 10, I was sort of playing around with. Singing a little bit, singing with friends. But when I was 11, I realized, oh, there's something I can do with this. There's a way I can use my voice and change the way things sound and mess around with things like. That's when I start to have a real technical understanding of what it was. Yes.
[58:06]
Matt Rogers
So I think that's something that becomes really obvious, like, as you get older as an artist is that there's singing and there's performance and then there's being a recording artist. And those two things are so different. But what you just said about, like, creating sound and using your voice in different ways is something that there is so much opportunity in with recorded music. So I know that you are working on a new project, Correct?
[58:27]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[58:28]
Matt Rogers
And that you worked with Ariana to do that.
[58:30]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. So Basically what happened was I've recorded an album before and the experience was not necessarily the experience that I wanted for myself. And it just was checkered with a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't right for me. And she. And I had like a really sweet heart to heart. I sat down and I talked to her about my experiences and what was going on. She was like, well, it's because I had really interesting relationships with managers that just didn't really understand and it got a little toxic from time to time. And she was like, well, that's because you don't need a manager, Cynthia, because you already know what you want. What you need is a good label. What you need is a good team.
[59:08]
Matt Rogers
Producer, engineer, people in the room.
[59:10]
Cynthia Erivo
You need people who understand your idea and can help you execute the idea. And so we started talking and it just so happens that we're under the same label, but it's a different conglomerate.
[59:20]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[59:21]
Cynthia Erivo
Different imprint. So she introduced me to her imprint and I started having conversations and now I'm under a joint venture. So it meant that I had the care from the people that I wanted the care from before and then new care from a team that was ready and raring to go and that really understood the story I wanted to tell.
[59:39]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[59:40]
Cynthia Erivo
And so I've been. I've finished writing now.
[59:44]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[59:44]
Cynthia Erivo
The songs are written. They're like five seconds away from being fully ready. And whilst I was writing and sending it to her and having her listen to it, sending back and forth, getting her opinion on it, she's had the whole thing.
[59:57]
Matt Rogers
Incredible resource in terms of recording.
[60:00]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. It's been like. To be able to get her ear on things, because I trust her ear implicitly, has been really, really monumental. And now I'm kind of ready. So we're putting it finishing touches and getting it all done. And by hopefully next year you'll have it. Wow.
[60:19]
Matt Rogers
What is it giving? I'm trying to figure out a cool way to ask that.
[60:25]
Cynthia Erivo
People always ask, like, what's the genre? Yeah, I think there are several genres just because of who I am and my upbringing in music. My inspirations can come from anywhere from Enya to Aretha Franklin, so. So there's a lot of different mixes in between. So there's things that ended up being country, but I didn't mean them to sound like country. And there are pieces that are very R and B because that's what I'm raised on. And there are pieces that feel sort of like a little left field. It's a very eclectic album. But the through line is vocal padding. So I've used my vocal, my voice as an instrument. So you'll hear each song has its own vocal pattern, vocal rhythm very specific to the song. That's just what happened. And so each song starts with the voice first and then we had instruments afterwards. A lot of what we composed and what we made started with the voice.
[61:15]
Bowen Yang
Wow.
[61:15]
Cynthia Erivo
And it's because my anr, who's now the president of Republic, Wendy, who is amazing, she said, do you know about Enya? And I knew exactly what she meant immediately. And there is a song on Enya's album that is the basis for Ready or Not. Fuji's Ready or Not.
[61:36]
Bowen Yang
Yes, yes.
[61:37]
Cynthia Erivo
And the moment she.
[61:38]
Matt Rogers
That.
[61:39]
Cynthia Erivo
Exactly. And I was like, oh, yeah, I understand.
[61:44]
Bowen Yang
Wow.
[61:45]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. That the idea that you can put two different things together, make them collide, and they make this one special thing. I just loved that idea because both those pieces, both the Enya piece and the Fuji's piece are vocal forward.
[61:58]
Bowen Yang
Yes. Yes.
[61:59]
Cynthia Erivo
So I was like, unforgettable that I can do that. I understand. She's like, your voice is an instrument, so just use it that way.
[62:06]
Bowen Yang
Because if you don't mind me saying, like, you can do like the Enya padding on, let's say Ready or Not and then also give the Lauryn Hill.
[62:13]
Cynthia Erivo
Exactly.
[62:13]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. That's really exciting for you to find that.
[62:16]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[62:16]
Matt Rogers
It's also really interesting because Ariana has her thing with image and heat.
[62:19]
Cynthia Erivo
Right.
[62:20]
Matt Rogers
And so that's like almost like another way that you guys could speak to each other.
[62:24]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love the Vanity Fair piece that Chris Murphy, our friend, wrote.
[62:29]
Matt Rogers
He's the best, right?
[62:30]
Cynthia Erivo
The best. The best, sweetheart. Wonderful. And how he wrote that, it just. It was. I was so touched and moved that that's what he. He really got us.
[62:38]
Bowen Yang
Yeah. He got you guys. I read it. I just felt you guys through.
[62:41]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[62:42]
Bowen Yang
The piece. And I mean, it ends on you in this really beautiful way. And it just made. I texted you right after. I was like, this is so. I'm crying. This is so perfect.
[62:51]
Cynthia Erivo
I love that. Oh, very proud of that.
[62:53]
Matt Rogers
So the album will be next.
[62:55]
Cynthia Erivo
Album's next. Yeah.
[62:56]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. And then is there. It's crazy to even think, like, after you do something like Elphaba, obviously there's going to be years and decades more, but what do you want to do next? Like, what's the next. What are you running?
[63:08]
Cynthia Erivo
I want to do next, but I don't know if I can say it because I don't want to, like, jinx myself and get myself into trouble.
[63:13]
Matt Rogers
You can tell us after.
[63:14]
Cynthia Erivo
I'll tell you after.
[63:15]
Bowen Yang
Okay.
[63:15]
Cynthia Erivo
But I know what I want to do next. But on top of which, I. My production company is working on a series right now, and that seems to be going quite well. It looks like it might be greenlit very soon. We're, like, in the final processes of doing that. So that would be. It would be my project, and that might come to TV soon. But I want to just. I want to. I loved how big and explorative this particular piece was. I want to do that more. I want to just be adventurous with it. Yeah. And there's a play called Prima Facie. Oh, of course that happened. And we're turning it into a movie.
[63:51]
Matt Rogers
And you're doing the film?
[63:52]
Cynthia Erivo
We're doing the film.
[63:52]
Matt Rogers
Oh, I saw it with Jodie. I mean, and it just.
[63:56]
Cynthia Erivo
It's.
[63:57]
Matt Rogers
It's a great piece of work.
[63:58]
Cynthia Erivo
And we've been. We've been through the mill with it because we were supposed to have it. We were supposed to have shot it last year, the strike. And then we lost some of the funding. But I think we're okay of. I think we're coming back together and think we're getting a funding now.
[64:10]
Bowen Yang
It's in pre production. Oh, no, no, the funding's still coming.
[64:11]
Cynthia Erivo
Funding's still coming up. But I think we found it now.
[64:14]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[64:14]
Cynthia Erivo
So I think that is exciting.
[64:17]
Matt Rogers
That is a tour de force. That is a tall order. That is you running to.
[64:22]
Cynthia Erivo
Again. Running into the fire again. But I think the more these characters turn up that desire something that need their voices to be heard, that, like, feel powerful and not in the stereotypical sense of the world, but, like, have a power in them. I'm there. That's what I want to do. Yeah.
[64:45]
Bowen Yang
Wow.
[64:45]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[64:46]
Bowen Yang
One final thing.
[64:47]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[64:47]
Bowen Yang
I was reading Middlemarch on set.
[64:49]
Cynthia Erivo
Oh, yeah.
[64:50]
Bowen Yang
And I remember. You got a copy.
[64:51]
Cynthia Erivo
I do have a copy. I haven't read it yet.
[64:52]
Bowen Yang
I haven't finished it either. I was gonna ask you if you finished it.
[64:55]
Cynthia Erivo
No, I haven't read it yet.
[64:55]
Bowen Yang
It's a big one.
[64:56]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[64:57]
Bowen Yang
George Eliot, huge book. But it's supposed to be amazing.
[65:00]
Cynthia Erivo
Okay, well, I'm going into it. I'm going to get into it. Yeah. Well, actually, what I want to do is take, like, a couple series on tour with me and see how I can, like, move through. So Middlemarch I might take with me as well.
[65:09]
Bowen Yang
Could be good.
[65:10]
Cynthia Erivo
I still have to finish a Little Life. I have to.
[65:13]
Bowen Yang
Oh, that's oh, my God.
[65:14]
Cynthia Erivo
I know it's hard. I know it's hard. And I've put it off for a really long time, but I know it's going to be good. And I have to just suck it up and pick it up and just read. I have to.
[65:26]
Matt Rogers
You have to be in the right environment. I remember I tried to read it on a plane and I started to have an anxiety attack. I was like, this is. I can't do this on a plane. No, no, it was. Cause it's kind of rough and tumble, like, from the jump.
[65:37]
Cynthia Erivo
Ooh.
[65:37]
Matt Rogers
Like, and then it gets way worse. But like. Yeah, Hana. She doesn't mess around.
[65:41]
Cynthia Erivo
No, she. No, she doesn't.
[65:42]
Bowen Yang
No, no. No way.
[65:43]
Matt Rogers
She does mess around.
[65:44]
Cynthia Erivo
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[65:45]
Bowen Yang
Are you ready for the tour?
[65:46]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[65:47]
Bowen Yang
Good.
[65:47]
Cynthia Erivo
Very much excited. I think it's gonna be absolutely manic and crazy and wild, but I'm okay with that.
[65:52]
Bowen Yang
But so fun.
[65:52]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
[65:54]
Matt Rogers
Are the looks picked out?
[65:55]
Cynthia Erivo
The looks are picked out.
[65:56]
Bowen Yang
Oh, okay.
[65:57]
Matt Rogers
That must be such a fun.
[65:58]
Cynthia Erivo
At least for the premieres. Are definitely picked out. And we're, like, fine tuning things.
[66:05]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[66:05]
Cynthia Erivo
But we're picking all the, like, the things in between. We're trying to make sure that we're considered for everything.
[66:09]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. And so, like, the green of it all.
[66:12]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[66:12]
Matt Rogers
Did you have a good relationship with that color before this?
[66:14]
Cynthia Erivo
It's actually my favorite color.
[66:16]
Bowen Yang
Perfect.
[66:16]
Cynthia Erivo
Which is the strangest, craziest thing. That is my favorite color.
[66:19]
Bowen Yang
No problem.
[66:19]
Cynthia Erivo
And now people think I'm just wearing it for this, and I'm not. I had a lot of green in my closet already.
[66:23]
Bowen Yang
Yes, yes. Yeah.
[66:24]
Cynthia Erivo
This is just an opportunity to get more.
[66:26]
Bowen Yang
Thank you for, quote, unquote, using this on us.
[66:28]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[66:28]
Matt Rogers
This is. This is beautiful.
[66:30]
Cynthia Erivo
I'm really proud of this. I found this in a Paris vintage shop, and it is an original Johnny Versace.
[66:37]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[66:37]
Cynthia Erivo
That is just hard to find. Really special. Yeah.
[66:42]
Matt Rogers
Last night at cfda, you did black, though, right? That was the hood.
[66:45]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[66:45]
Matt Rogers
It was beautiful. You were giving everything. Thank you. It must have been kind of nice to, like, step out of it for a second and just have your isolated CFDA fashion moment.
[66:54]
Cynthia Erivo
It was nice. Yeah. Yes, yes. Yes, it was. I had my little touch of green on my neck and that was. No, just the touch. Just the touch. Yeah. Yeah. Just a touch. I loved that dress. I loved it. Made me feel. So.
[67:04]
Matt Rogers
Who made that dress?
[67:05]
Cynthia Erivo
Zac Posen. Well, it's like Gaps by Zac Posen. He'll say Gap Studios.
[67:09]
Bowen Yang
Sure, sure, sure.
[67:09]
Cynthia Erivo
But he has now. He is an atelier with Gap now. That's what he did.
[67:12]
Matt Rogers
You have a great relationship with Zac Posen, right?
[67:15]
Cynthia Erivo
When I. When I came to New York, I, like, nobody knew who I was, and I have a stylist, but this. This thing, Color Purple was really taking off, and I was like, well, I have all these events to go to, and I have nothing with me. I have my clothes, but they're not. It's not right for these very special events. So I went to his studio and he. I fit for, like, a dress, but he sent me away with, like, nine.
[67:40]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
[67:40]
Cynthia Erivo
And separates and things that I could throw on if I needed. You know, who just really took care of me and has done ever since. Yeah, he's just a sweetheart.
[67:47]
Matt Rogers
It's an incredibly fun part of it for an artist, too, like, because it's more storytelling, which I don't think people realize on the outside is. It's like, this is another opportunity.
[67:57]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[67:57]
Bowen Yang
Well, I'm just saying, like, you and Ari are such perfect people for the scale of this kind of thing, because to me, it kind of all began with the Met gal or with the Oscars and then the Met Gala. But just, like, all the footage out of the Met gala, even though you're not really supposed to film any of this, all of it that came out, I was just like, holy shit, this is gonna be major.
[68:17]
Cynthia Erivo
It works. It works. Yeah, we work together. Yeah. Yeah.
[68:21]
Bowen Yang
But you're both such good fashion muses.
[68:23]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, we love. I mean, it's terrible. The two of us are like, so, did you see this? I'll send her. I saw this. What do you think of that? For her?
[68:29]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
[68:29]
Cynthia Erivo
And she sent me something. Hey, I saw this, and I think it's very you, Cynthia. It's where the worst influences for each other because we sort of, like, get what we need and what we want. And she'll send it to me, and she knows I'm going to be like, good bye.
[68:42]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[68:43]
Matt Rogers
It's fun to indulge each other, though.
[68:44]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. It's lovely that someone gets you that way. It's nice to share in that way. Totally. It's another way we can share creatively.
[68:52]
Bowen Yang
Of course.
[68:53]
Matt Rogers
Do you like working with my bestie?
[68:54]
Cynthia Erivo
I do. I have to say this, and I say it. I never say it when you're there, because I'm, like, always talking and passing, But Bowen has to be one of the most astute and intelligent performers I have ever had the privilege of being on a set with no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I mean it. No, I mean it. And I. You know, you have to understand, I'm a Capricorn. I don't like anybody. I don't say anything to anyone unless I mean it. And I really do like your ability to pick up on the surroundings and riff on what you see is second to none. You're so fucking fast. It's amazing. Oh, my God, it is amazing to. To watch you work that way. Just like picking on the surroundings, on a detail on someone's clothing, on. Just like, it just. Some of my favorite moments in the film are things you just say off the cuff.
[69:45]
Bowen Yang
Oh, my God, Cynthia.
[69:47]
Cynthia Erivo
I don't see color. I think it.
[69:51]
Bowen Yang
Cease.
[69:51]
Matt Rogers
Enroll here often. Might be.
[69:53]
Cynthia Erivo
Enroll here often. Anything. Anything.
[69:56]
Bowen Yang
I mean, Cynthia, thank. Thank you so much.
[69:58]
Cynthia Erivo
I just. The details. It's the details. She needs a pastry chef.
[70:03]
Bowen Yang
Stew, can I just tell you, like, I was. Cause John, God bless him, like, gave me a lot of latitude, let's say. And I was gladly gonna do it, but then at the back of my mind, I was always like, this is a bajillion dollar two movies, and he's gonna let me ad lib and, like, step on Winnie Holtzman's perfect words. I was like, no way is this gonna make it into the movie. This isn't gonna work. And then I will say. And I'm so quick to judge myself and be like, oh, no, that didn't work on a comedy level. Whatever. I'm like, John M. Chu, the director. You are like, it all kind of.
[70:37]
Cynthia Erivo
Fits it truly, somehow.
[70:39]
Bowen Yang
He made my nonsense work in the world of.
[70:42]
Cynthia Erivo
Because it wasn't nonsense. Because it was observation. That is the difference, Cynthia. You know what I'm saying? Really detailed observation. Every time something comes out of your mouth, it is an observation, which I love. It's perfect. Like, yes, she needs a pastry. It's funny on the outside, but you're like, in the situation, right?
[71:03]
Bowen Yang
It's like, please, she needs a pastry.
[71:05]
Cynthia Erivo
She needs a pastry. She's, you know, it's so brilliant. You're just spectacular. I had the best time. And you're so kind as well. So, like, thank you.
[71:14]
Matt Rogers
Makes me so happy.
[71:20]
Bowen Yang
JBL Tour Pro 3 earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard.
[71:24]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. I mean, if you wanna get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case, Clear sound. These are not standard things. You're only gonna get them with The JBL Tour Pro 3, baby.
[71:36]
Bowen Yang
And I love the sound of JBL when it goes. These earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others.
[71:44]
Matt Rogers
Touchscreen smart charging case for one touch control, instant EQ customization, true ADAP of noise canceling and the one of a kind audio transmitter which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in flight entertainment. What more could you want? First doesn't follow. Grab a pair@jbl.com we have to like so, honey.
[72:06]
Bowen Yang
Okay, great.
[72:06]
Matt Rogers
All right, so this is our 60 second segment, okay. Where we rant and rail against something in culture that's just bothering us and we're gonna do it. And I understand they're pointing, but this is happening.
[72:15]
Cynthia Erivo
We have to do it. We have to wait. We're doing it.
[72:17]
Matt Rogers
So I have something and it's a musical observation I'm making about the people.
[72:21]
Cynthia Erivo
Okay, great.
[72:21]
Matt Rogers
Ok.
[72:22]
Bowen Yang
This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so. Anytime starts now.
[72:24]
Matt Rogers
I don't think so, honey. People who don't listen to lyrics and music. A dear friend of ours just said. Huh? What's this song about? About Sabrina Carpenter's Juno. So here is what Sabrina Carpenter's Juno is about. It's about being so into someone that you would like them to make you. Juno. This is referencing the Elliot Page Diablo Cody team up. Juno.
[72:45]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
[72:46]
Matt Rogers
This is about being so sexually interested in someone you wouldn't mind if you got pregnant.
[72:51]
Cynthia Erivo
Right?
[72:51]
Matt Rogers
I'm gonna let you make. You know.
[72:55]
Bowen Yang
I just.
[72:55]
Matt Rogers
I was like, she's even being tongue in cheek after. Listen to words. I don't think so, honey.
[73:00]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
[73:00]
Matt Rogers
If you want to listen to beautiful orchestrations, I think so, honey. But the words, it all comes together. You're going to just listen to the tunes of When Cynthia Sings Alfie. Listen to the words, know the story, especially Sabrina Carpenter. Juno. I'm like, this is a lyrical masterpiece. I was like, let's give it its due.
[73:18]
Bowen Yang
5 seconds.
[73:19]
Matt Rogers
You can't just listen to music, listen to words, understand feel, then emote. You can too listen to words, write words, explore words, be words.
[73:28]
Bowen Yang
And that's one minute. Fantastic.
[73:31]
Matt Rogers
Well, I could never say who, but a friend of ours was like, what.
[73:35]
Bowen Yang
Is this song about?
[73:36]
Cynthia Erivo
I was like, if you just listen, Juno, listen.
[73:39]
Bowen Yang
Just listen.
[73:40]
Cynthia Erivo
But it's also maybe like a thing about not knowing references. Like, not maybe it was that.
[73:44]
Matt Rogers
But I was like, this movie was famous.
[73:46]
Bowen Yang
It was, it was, it was, it was.
[73:49]
Cynthia Erivo
This is. Listen is.
[73:51]
Bowen Yang
Okay. All right.
[73:52]
Matt Rogers
So this is Bo and Yang's. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.
[73:56]
Bowen Yang
I don't Think so, honey. Walker's chips not being available in the United States. Oh. It is a British staple. Walkers are not lays.
[74:03]
Cynthia Erivo
It's not the same.
[74:03]
Matt Rogers
It's not lays.
[74:04]
Bowen Yang
They have the same logos, but they're not the same. Different textures, different thickness.
[74:07]
Cynthia Erivo
Thank you very much.
[74:08]
Bowen Yang
Thank you very much. I need more British. Why is there such a weird barrier between British snacks and American snacks?
[74:15]
Matt Rogers
That's true.
[74:15]
Bowen Yang
They need to come together. We basically have the same palates and the same tastes. I think we would appreciate more of a crossover. I'm not saying, like, one should replace the other. I'm saying they can coexist in the same market, which is the American market, which, you know, I am biased towards because I happen to live here. So I just think walkers, you can find them in your specialty shops. But I think we need more access to just the wider gamut of Walker's chips. Any favorite flavors?
[74:40]
Cynthia Erivo
I love it. Straight up. Ready? Salted.
[74:42]
Bowen Yang
Yes, salted. Walkers. It's simple, but it's good.
[74:45]
Cynthia Erivo
And the salt and vinegar is not the same as the salt and vinegar here. It's just not.
[74:48]
Bowen Yang
It's just not. And we need.
[74:50]
Matt Rogers
We just need five seconds.
[74:51]
Bowen Yang
Is. I've rented about Percy pigs. They need to be more widely available as well. And Walker's chips is included.
[74:55]
Matt Rogers
And that's one minute. One of the joys of my life was coming back from London, and I was able to gift Bowen his Percy pigs because it's his great distress.
[75:04]
Bowen Yang
My sister got.
[75:05]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, now I know whenever I go, I'll pick you up.
[75:07]
Bowen Yang
Thank you.
[75:08]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. Yeah.
[75:08]
Bowen Yang
Okay.
[75:09]
Cynthia Erivo
All right.
[75:09]
Bowen Yang
We. We get Cynthia out of here.
[75:10]
Cynthia Erivo
Cynthia.
[75:10]
Bowen Yang
Reva? I don't think so. Any time starts now.
[75:12]
Cynthia Erivo
My. I don't think so, honey. Is onion and garlic in everything? I can't take it. I hate it. I can't deal with the idea that the way you cook is only with onion and garlic. Every time I see someone do a cooking thing, they cut up onions and garlic so much and neglect to use any other flavoring in food. As a person who's actually allergic to garlic and my body just does not process it at all, I have had to find out ways to cook food using other herbs and spices, and it works. You can get just as much taste out of an old bay and a bay leaf and an asafoetida, which is actually a. Tastes a little bit like garlic, but doesn't give you the same horrible feeling that garlic does.
[75:51]
Bowen Yang
I've never heard of this.
[75:52]
Cynthia Erivo
If you just use your imagination and cook. I think people have stopped Using their imagination about how they cook, and they use the basic, basic herbs, and they always go for onion and garlic. And I cannot take it, because the worst thing is when someone comes in and they're just reeking of garlic. When you can avoid that and still have flavorful food. If you decide to use your imagination. And that is my minute also, like.
[76:14]
Matt Rogers
Thank God you're allergic to something that sucks. Like, it sucks. Garlic sucks.
[76:20]
Cynthia Erivo
Oh, my God.
[76:20]
Matt Rogers
You smell awful. You feel awful.
[76:22]
Bowen Yang
We need different aromatics, different flavor bases. Come on. Yeah, we need it.
[76:26]
Cynthia Erivo
I don't understand. And everyone's. The amount of people who are like, well, how do you eat? What do you mean?
[76:31]
Bowen Yang
What do you mean? Just wine.
[76:33]
Matt Rogers
Justly, stunningly talented.
[76:36]
Cynthia Erivo
And you know what? When I walk into a room, you can't smell me first.
[76:39]
Bowen Yang
You can't clock me. You can't clock my scents.
[76:41]
Matt Rogers
What do you think of ginger?
[76:42]
Cynthia Erivo
He love ginger.
[76:43]
Matt Rogers
He did it. I don't think so. Honey on ginger.
[76:44]
Cynthia Erivo
Pickled ginger is better.
[76:45]
Bowen Yang
Thank you.
[76:46]
Cynthia Erivo
Try pickled ginger. It's a different flavor palette.
[76:48]
Bowen Yang
I love it. Becomes sweeter, becomes sweeter. And it's just nice. Little bit of acidity.
[76:52]
Matt Rogers
This has been so. It's so amazing to get to know you and to have you here. And you are Elphaba. And it's.
[77:00]
Bowen Yang
It's.
[77:01]
Matt Rogers
And thank God that you are.
[77:02]
Cynthia Erivo
Thank you very much.
[77:03]
Matt Rogers
So brilliant. We usually end every episode with a song, but I just want to. If you have two lines of anything on your spirit right now that you could sing, what is it? To end this episode.
[77:15]
Bowen Yang
Or it could be one.
[77:16]
Cynthia Erivo
This is not to do with anything, but I've been listening to this lately, and it's one of my favorite songs. Why? By Annie Lennox. Oh, I may be mad, I may be blind I may be viciously unkind But I can still read what you're thinking. I've heard it said too many times. You be better off. Besides, why can't you see this? This boat is sinking. This boat is sinking. This boat is sinking.
[77:43]
Matt Rogers
Oh, my God. It is the most beautiful song. You're brilliant, Cynthia.
[77:49]
Bowen Yang
Okay.
[77:52]
Matt Rogers
Wow. Thank you for indulging that lost culture.
[77:55]
Bowen Yang
Racist is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio podcasts, created.
[77:58]
Matt Rogers
And hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, executive produced by Anna Hosnier and.
[78:03]
Bowen Yang
Han Sign, produced by Becca Ramos, edited and mixed by Doug Babe and Monique Laborde.
[78:07]
Matt Rogers
And our music is by Henry Kamirski. Hey, everybody, it's me, Matt Rogers, letting you know. Tickets are on sale now. To see me on tour. The Prince of Christmas tour, that is. I'm doing my whole album. Have you heard of Christmas? Plus a lot more with the whole band all throughout December. Go to www.mattrogersofficial.com to see me in a city near you.
[78:30]
Bowen Yang
Merry Christmas at all.