Episode 595: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part II - Me, Myself, The Werewolf, and I

Summary

Last Podcast On The Left Episode 595: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part II - Me, Myself, The Werewolf, and I

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Introduction to the Krugersdorp Cult Murders

In Episode 595 of Last Podcast On The Left, The Last Podcast Network delves deeper into the sinister events surrounding the Krugersdorp Cult Murders. Building upon the foundations laid in Part I, this episode explores the intricate web of deceit, manipulation, and violence orchestrated by the enigmatic Cecilia Stain and her influence over the Overcomers Through Christ community.

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Cecilia Stain: The Master Manipulator

At the heart of the narrative is Cecilia Stain, a self-proclaimed 42nd-generation satanic witch and werewolf. Cecilia's charisma and fabricated backstory enable her to infiltrate and manipulate unsuspecting individuals.

• Ben Kissel (02:29): "I transform. I'm actually shape shifting. And I can travel through walls."

Cecilia leverages her supposed supernatural abilities to gain sympathy and trust, presenting herself as a victim in need of assistance against malevolent forces.

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Infiltration of Overcomers Through Christ

Cecilia strategically targets the Overcomers Through Christ, a fundamentalist Christian organization. By claiming to be an escaped member of a satanic coven, she convinces the group that they are uniquely positioned to protect her from imminent satanic threats.

• Marcus Parks (05:20): "And how Cecilia Stain came to control these fucking people by telling them that she was a fucking werewolf."

Using deceptive tactics such as fake blood spatter and staged spiritual attacks, Cecilia solidifies her position within the group, ensuring continuous financial support under the guise of emergency medical needs.

• Marcus Parks (13:05): "Cecilia convinced the overcomers that she also had leukemia infections in her heart and lungs, immune deficiency syndrome, high blood pressure, chronic bronchitis, epilepsy, panic attacks, and a chronic stomach ulcer."

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The Emergence of Electus Perdus

As Cecilia's influence grows, she spearheads the creation of a new cult, Electus Perdus, translating to "Chosen by God" in Latin. This offshoot serves as a more action-oriented branch, focused on combating satanic forces through aggressive and violent means.

• Ben Kissel (76:33): "Electus Perdeus was made up of the naive Zach and Michaela Valentine, a couple named Juanita and Charl Truder, and three women named Amber Dupreeze, Melanie Vandermerve and Natasha Berger."

Electus Perdus becomes the vessel through which Cecilia channels her manipulative prowess, converting ordinary individuals into fervent followers ready to commit heinous acts.

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Manipulation and Grooming of Cult Members

Cecilia meticulously grooms her followers, tailoring her approach to meet their specific needs and vulnerabilities. Through psychological manipulation and the use of illicit drugs like methamphetamine, she ensures unwavering loyalty and a heightened sense of paranoia among her members.

• Ben Kissel (77:16): "Electus Perdeus need not worry, because Cecilia was communicating with these children through the actual astral plane."

Members are coerced into signing over their incomes, further empowering Cecilia and funding the cult's escalating activities. The introduction of multiple personalities within Cecilia reinforces her control, making it increasingly difficult for members to question her authority.

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Transition to Violence: Escalation to Murder

With a solidified base of followers, Cecilia orchestrates the first acts of violence. Initial attempts involve petty vandalism aimed at disrupting the Overcomers Through Christ, but soon escalate to outright murder as Cecilia manipulates her cult members into believing they are combating satanic forces.

• Ben Kissel (95:53): "They're on meth, are they all the time?"

The first failed bombing attempt against a church meeting marks a turning point, showcasing both the cult's determination and Cecilia's ability to incite chaos without repercussions, likely due to her connections within law enforcement.

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Police Involvement and Cecilia’s Protection

Despite the evident criminal activities, Cecilia's husband, a police officer, intervenes to suppress any official investigations. His influence ensures that evidence against the cult is dismissed, exemplifying the corruption and challenges in bringing Cecilia and her followers to justice.

• Ben Kissel (103:18): "She's a white trash. Like, that's the only way to really describe her."

This protection allows the cult to continue their operations unabated, emboldening Cecilia to push the boundaries further in her quest for power and control.

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The First Murders

July 26, 2012, marks the culmination of Cecilia's manipulation with the brutal murder of Natasha Berger. Under Cecilia's command, cult members Zach Valentine and Michaela orchestrate the killing, leaving behind a scene intended to implicate satanic forces in the crime.

• Ben Kissel (112:03): "And then she'd go into the other stuff and then."

The murder, characterized by its savagery, strategically blames satanic rituals, misleading the investigation and reinforcing the group's fabricated narrative of satanic oppression.

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Continuing the Violence and Misdirection

As Electus Perdus gains notoriety, further murders follow, each meticulously planned to divert suspicion away from Cecilia and towards external satanic entities. The cult's use of blank ammunition and deceptive tactics in subsequent killings exemplifies their commitment to perpetuating fear and chaos within their community.

• Ben Kissel (115:46): "All these fake personalities made excuses as they could never talk on the phone or meet in person."

The ongoing cycle of violence serves to entrench Cecilia's influence, making it increasingly difficult for any member to break free or question the cult's motives.

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Conclusion and Next Steps

Episode 595 of Last Podcast On The Left masterfully unravels the dark tale of Cecilia Stain and the Krugersdorp Cult Murders. Through a combination of psychological manipulation, deceit, and outright violence, Cecilia transforms a charismatic leader into a malevolent force, ensnaring ordinary individuals in her web of terror.

As the episode concludes, the impending third part promises to delve deeper into the subsequent murders and the inevitable unraveling of Electus Perdus. Listeners are left with chilling insights into the mechanisms of cult dynamics and the devastating impact of a single individual's malicious intent.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ben Kissel (02:29): "I transform. I'm actually shape shifting. And I can travel through walls."

• Marcus Parks (05:20): "And how Cecilia Stain came to control these fucking people by telling them that she was a fucking werewolf."

• Ben Kissel (77:16): "Electus Perdeus need not worry, because Cecilia was communicating with these children through the actual astral plane."

• Ben Kissel (112:03): "And then she'd go into the other stuff and then."

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Speaker Attribution:

• Marcus Parks: One of the primary hosts, often guiding the discussion and providing narrative insights.

• Ben Kissel: Co-host, known for his humorous and irreverent commentary.

• Ed Larson: Co-host, contributing to the conversation with additional perspectives and humor.

• Henry Zebrowski: Mentioned in advertisements but not actively involved in the main discussion.

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This detailed summary encapsulates the key elements and progression of the Krugersdorp Cult Murders as discussed in Last Podcast On The Left Episode 595. By highlighting essential plot points, character dynamics, and critical quotes, the summary provides a comprehensive overview suitable for both new and returning listeners.

Transcript

[Henry Zebrowski]

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[Marcus Parks]

There's no place to escape to. This is the last on the left.

[Ben Kissel]

That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? You guys ready?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, man.

[Ed Larson]

My whole life.

[Ben Kissel]

Okay, you guys have known me for a while. Eddie, you've known me for more than half of my life. Yeah, Marcus, you and I have been working together for probably close to 15 years.

[Ed Larson]

I remember you were just a sad, scared little piece of shit.

[Ben Kissel]

I still am, though. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Technically, he's littler than he was then.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes, by then I was more expensive and you were weaker, though I was. And I was more open to other cultures.

[Ed Larson]

Yes, you were. You know, in fact, expletive, maybe?

[Ben Kissel]

No, no, celebratory. I was celebratory of the African American community. But I just want to ask you both, how long and what will it take for you both? Like, let's say I were to come forward emotionally and tell you both guys I love you. I don't know how to say this, but I'm a werewolf. I transform against my will. I'm a huge bitch when I do. You don't want to be anywhere near my teats when they explode out of me. Like, honestly, if I were to come to you emotionally and explain to you that I'm a werewolf.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

What's the procedure?

[Ed Larson]

The procedure? I mean. Well, you go to the first full moon and lock your ass up.

[Ben Kissel]

But I tell you, the problem is that if you come anywhere near me during the full moon, I will kill.

[Ed Larson]

You both and just put you in a cage.

[Ben Kissel]

I transform. I'm actually shape shifting. And I can travel through walls.

[Ed Larson]

You can do all that?

[Ben Kissel]

Y. I'm the most powerful witch in Northern Los Angeles.

[Marcus Parks]

Just caught you in a lie. Because a male witch is a warlock.

[Ben Kissel]

But, hey, not unless you have tits like me. Cause I have.

[Ed Larson]

You got witch tits.

[Ben Kissel]

I have witch's breasts.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that is true. You do have an old witch's breasts.

[Ben Kissel]

I have exactly the same body as the lady who played the wicked witch. Yeah, in Henry Has Witches.

[Marcus Parks]

Actually, you have the same body as the witch in the Witch.

[Ben Kissel]

She looks very similar. Seriously, what's the procedure? How long. What would it take for you to believe I'm a werewolf?

[Ed Larson]

You have witch tits. Cause I can't figure out which one is bigger.

[Ben Kissel]

It's the right.

[Marcus Parks]

Welcome to the last podcast. On the left, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Marcus Parks. My answer is the second your sister convinces me you're a werewolf, then I'll believe it.

[Ben Kissel]

You don't think she's not gonna hop on with all of her improv training? She's gonna immediately understand that if I'm telling people that there's a. That I'm a werewolf, that there's nothing, a grift is afoot. Better join in or you're on the other side of it.

[Ed Larson]

No, I probably would just ignore it because I know it wasn't true. And you know, just like I do, whenever you talk about aliens.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean.

[Ben Kissel]

I come to you. I'm emotional. I'm explaining to you that this has destroyed my life. I'm such a powerful witch, I can't be hidden. Everybody's trying to attack me. And the worst part of all is my period makes me attack people with woven teeth.

[Ed Larson]

That's great.

[Marcus Parks]

What do you do, I ask you, when you started having a period?

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, buddy, it was when I was 13 years young. Man, oh, man, the mess and the surprise.

[Ed Larson]

I'm pretty sure penis periods are cancer.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes, that's what they came to say.

[Marcus Parks]

And with me is the heavy flow. Henry Zabrowski.

[Ben Kissel]

I need five paper towel rolls just to jam it up. But I wonder if there is a way to. Cause what people don't talk about in this case. And I think.

[Marcus Parks]

Excuse me. And the skeptical Ed Larson.

[Ed Larson]

Hey, I don't believe anything.

[Ben Kissel]

He physically cannot believe a single thing. I think that the reason why they have cut out the majority of the werewolf lore within this story is because they're.

[Marcus Parks]

Who is they?

[Ben Kissel]

The. I literally do mean the major media and the people who wrote about this story, they cut out a lot. I mean, a lot of the werewolf content because they felt that people maybe wouldn't take it seriously.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

And it's hard because it really is. The center of the beginnings of this cult is all on werewolf shit.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

And nobody questions a thing. The werewolves.

[Marcus Parks]

Nobody in the cult questions a thing.

[Ben Kissel]

No, in the cult, the werewolf stuff Was the base.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

And then it went from there. What do you do then?

[Marcus Parks]

Well, let's get into the cult itself. Let's really get into this fucking business. And how Cecilia Stain came to control these fucking people by telling them that she was a fucking werewolf.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, I think I wouldn't do anything as long as you were still funny, okay?

[Ben Kissel]

That's the key. So as long as it does not hurt work. Yeah. Then I can continue to be a werewolf or believe I'm a werewolf. But you're not going to come over and try to do anything about it. You're not going to go, you're not going to call Transylvania.

[Marcus Parks]

As long as you show up on time and can still have production calls, we're fine.

[Ben Kissel]

Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

[Marcus Parks]

So when we last left Cecilia Stane, eventual leader of the murderous Electus Perdus cult, she had successfully infiltrated a fundamentalist Christian organization called Overcomers Through Christ.

[Ben Kissel]

It's like that guy who came, who comes, he can't sell from coming. And then he came at his father's funeral and he was like, you never know the devastation of having four orgasms in front of your father's dead body.

[Ed Larson]

Overcomers for Christ.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Cecilia Stain had infiltrated them by telling them that she was a 42nd generation satanic witch who had just escaped the Satanic church and she needed their help. Using cheap parlor tricks, a deep backstory and a manufactured cast of characters who sent text messages to overcomers from burner phones, Cecilia was able to convince the Overcomers Through Christ that the Satanists were always on the precipice of coming to get both her and them. And the Overcomers were the only people who could save Cecilia.

[Ben Kissel]

Always. Now I again, in another life. And if this didn't turn into 11 murderers, this is the dream.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, right.

[Ben Kissel]

For a lot of Satanists.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, that's the thing, is that who knows how many times this has happened without any murderers occurred.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, I think it's many times. No exaggeration, because we have to remember. Let's set the tone again for this cult is that if you were coming to Overcomers Through Christ again, you have a huge urethra.

[Marcus Parks]

And also remember, the Overcomers Through Christ is not the cult. No, like, it's not like that is.

[Ben Kissel]

The cult she subsidized. It's the cult she stole from, she sucked the teat from.

[Marcus Parks]

But even then, I don't know if I would call Overcomers a cult themselves. Well, they're more like, they're. Yeah, they're more of like a really intense Prayer group.

[Ben Kissel]

The only way I think I could kind of sum it up is that this group was glad of. Cult leaders create the problem and the solution on their own. And the problem, the people with problems go to the cult leader looking for solutions. Like, so a lot of times a cult leader posts up either legitimately, you know, like Charles Manson or legitimately, like Jim Jones. They kind of have some standing in society in that way, and people come to them and that's how they get bought into the cult. Because Charles Manson, he used the context of the times. Jim Jones integrated Indiana, he did all these incredible things. And then by this point, sunken fallacy, you're now hanging out with a guy who's going to kill everybody. But in this cult, this is a cult led by gravity. This woman went straight to where the idiots were. So she went to Overcomers through Christ. These people already believed that they had the. Not only they were chosen by God, but they also have the ability to funnel God's empathy through themselves, through their weird little bodies, into Satanists to cure them. Like, if you believe already that you can go save people.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

You're just waiting to be scooped up. You're waiting to get scooped. But these.

[Marcus Parks]

And that's also important you say, like channel. It's important to know, like, these people believe they have magical powers.

[Ben Kissel]

There's nothing more magical than a Christian.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

They really do believe that. They are. They, they, they harness this ability. So it's so easy to kind of convince them that you're a werewolf.

[Ed Larson]

Every Sunday they drink blood.

[Ben Kissel]

I know. Well, if you're, if you're Catholic.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, if you're a Methodist. Grape juice. Now, first I think that Cecilia was just getting attention out of this deal, but the Overcomers were getting something too. She had a whole group of people believing that she was important and in danger. That's what she got.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, yeah. How. What are witch hunters without witches?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And in return, the group got to cosplay as Christian soldiers battling the devil. Although they didn't know they were cosplaying.

[Ben Kissel]

Because they're stupid and they don't understand that it's just as witchy what they were doing.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And they never actually saw any Satanists.

[Marcus Parks]

Never.

[Ben Kissel]

You ever.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, no, that's the thing is that.

[Ben Kissel]

They were surrounded by.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, by seeing they have Cecilia.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Like there's one that's sitting right in front of them that's telling them everything that they ever suspected about the world.

[Ben Kissel]

Was true and should not have trusted.

[Ed Larson]

Her because she's a Satanist.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, it is very interesting, and there's the crux.

[Ben Kissel]

But I feel like every one of these groups turn into this. Has your mom ever done this? My mom joined a Reiki group for a while.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And, yeah, my mom joined the fucking Reiki group in Jayton, Texas.

[Ben Kissel]

You joke. This is where they are. This is like. I'm talking about Po Dunk, Trumpville Count, Like Florida, Right. My mom goes to this Reiki, and the way she talks about. She's like, well, you know, Henry Thomas, the grandmaster, told me I had special powers and that I was the best student he'd ever met. And me and him are doing private lessons. I'm seeing, like, you know, red flags waving back and forth, but I'm just trying not to get involved.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

But then it turns into, you know, like, you know, they said, Henry Thomas, that they're one of us. Is there is sort of. They're not an antichrist, but it's like an anti Reiki sort of angel demon. Right. And her name's Beth, and she's in the group, and she's just. We all. None of us trust her. And it was like a whole thing. It turned into this thing with her and the Reiki master. We're gonna flip this woman. This is just, you know, a conference room and a public library until the whole group fell apart about them unable to equally divvy up the what they all spent at an Airbnb when they went on a trip out of town. I mean, this. That's what destroyed the Reiki group from destroying, like, literally. The Reiki group was fighting evil on Wednesday. On Friday, they're all like, well, I had two pieces of pepperoni pizza, and so I saw Marie Beth. Marie Beth, that five. I saw what she did. She was sneaking and cutting them into little pieces, but she was eating more than everybody else.

[Ed Larson]

Know what the crazy. They're in a library, conference room, and they're speaking all this nonsense, surrounded by information.

[Ben Kissel]

All the knowledge you need is right there. But it's like, I honestly think six more weeks, my mom could have killed 10, 12 people.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, once Cecilia cemented her place within Overcomers through Christ as a person in need, she opened up a second front. She started scamming them out of their money. Now, Rhea Grunewald, the leader of Overcomers Through Christ, and Candice Rieves, also a member and Cecilia's supposed girlfriend at the time, they both believed that Cecilia was in a constant state of decay due to continuous spiritual attacks launched by her former satanic coven. See, a fair amount of overcomers through Christ had witnessed Cecilia during one of the so called satanic high nights in which Cecilia would spit blood because witches were attacking her organs from afar. So they'd us ostensibly seen, quote unquote, proof that Cecilia was deteriorating. But if you'll remember, this was just a cheap trick involving blood and the fingers from a latex glove. But as far as the overcomers were concerned, Cecilia's body was rotting from the inside out due to these frequent satanic attacks.

[Ben Kissel]

It definitely wasn't the menthols.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And the cocaine.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And the drinking.

[Ben Kissel]

Lot of cocaine, lot of drinking.

[Ed Larson]

Whatever she can get her hands on, it seems like.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Now the only physical malady Cecilia ever had was mild asthma.

[Ben Kissel]

Cocaine really helps with that because it's all about having the confidence to not want to have asthma anymore.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, the menthols really help with that too. All the glass and the filters out of it. But she convinced the overcomers that she also had leukemia infections in her heart and lungs, immune deficiency syndrome, high blood pressure, chronic bronchitis, epilepsy, panic attacks, and a chronic stomach ulcer.

[Ben Kissel]

And I'm also a slow reader. It's been a month when any of.

[Marcus Parks]

These conditions presented manufactured symptoms like loss of breath, convulsions, hyperventilating or vomiting blood. That was her favorite trick. Candace and or Rhea would race Cecilia to the hospital and pay for her treatment, which only added to the constant sense of urgency surrounding their former Satanist. And that's an important thing to remember about Cecilia. Everything is urgent all the time.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, that's how she keeps, keeps the pace of the mini, mini cult. Now we're, we're right now this is, this is the training time.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

This is still her figuring out.

[Marcus Parks]

And the testing time.

[Ben Kissel]

And the testing time. She works on each one of these individuals around her to the, to their specific needs and wants for their relationship with her. It's very interesting. Candace was slowly groomed by Cecilia during this time period. Cecilia would make Candace buy two of the same pieces of clothing whenever she bought clothing so that they could dress up identical. So they, they would dress identical at all times. Cecilia would even get angry when she didn't dress identical to the point where they had to call each other in the morning and figure out what each one was going to wear. And so Cecilia was super into the, how do you say it? Lady whose baby is asleep on the counter of a Burger King like she is. That style of dress, crown of front hair, black. I want to say something along the lines of either. What's a good old fashioned Florida?

[Marcus Parks]

Like, I'm going to go ahead and say a black polo shir.

[Ben Kissel]

Black polo shirt. Or like a seven fold event. Seven fold shirt. Like a lot of that. Like that style of sort of like. What's that type of metal?

[Marcus Parks]

New metal.

[Ben Kissel]

New metal. Definitely a new metal vibe. Big pants. And then Cecilia. Very, very big pants. And it was this. They constantly had to. She didn't like accoutrements. She like keeping things simple. But this was the beginning of it. She also made them nicknames where Cecilia would be called Pookie and Candice's nickname would be Dookie. No.

[Marcus Parks]

Close. Very close.

[Ed Larson]

It's just like one of those things where it's. Every time it's this bunch of. It's a series of arbitrary lies and arguments.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

That. Every time I get annoyed, I just remember this ends in 11 murders, yo.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, buddy.

[Ed Larson]

That's the craziest thing of all this stupid bullshit.

[Ben Kissel]

It's a group of annoying, stupid people that go on to make a lot of mayhem. It's our favorite kind.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep. Well, Cecilia even got a prop. She started carrying around an oxygen tank. And she insisted she needed to have it with her at all times, otherwise she'd die. But because of her manufactured health problems, Cecilia would tell Candace or Rhea that she had a mountain of medical bills. As a result, Candace would eventually give Cecilia $6,000 per month to pay these bills. Cecilia, however, always insisted that Candace give her the cash directly.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes, of course. Yes, you had to. Because the bank accounts, they're traceable markets. The Sages are gonna find the bank accounts. You know how sadists are at the bank. You see me at the bank.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, this made sure that Candice Aria never came into contact with the people who were supposedly treating Cecilia. Cecilia also insisted that she be the one to buy all of her prescription drugs.

[Ben Kissel]

I know the good ones. I know them by taste. Nasally. Nasally.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, wow.

[Ben Kissel]

I love the taste of this one.

[Marcus Parks]

But that was because she was buying them recreationally and illegally through a contact at her local pharmacy. But what's insane about all this is that Rhea and Candace chose to ignore the lavish purchases Cecilia was making. She bought a couple of four wheelers, bought a PlayStation 3 and an Elfie library of games.

[Ben Kissel]

Can I ask, what is the thing with cult leaders and four wheelers?

[Marcus Parks]

Four wheelers? Dune buggies, ATVs of all kinds.

[Ed Larson]

They don't have driver's license.

[Ben Kissel]

That's very true.

[Marcus Parks]

It's about the freedom, bro. That's what I'm Saying it's all about freedom.

[Ben Kissel]

It's about the freest car.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Because they don't need a top.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

You gotta, you gotta get the wind in your spiky hair.

[Ben Kissel]

My five spikes.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, in addition, Cecilia was known to run up quite the tab at her local bar. She liked going to a place called the Limelight Pub and Grill.

[Ben Kissel]

That's how she learned, and this is true, how to be amongst normal people.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, hanging. And by the way, it's lime. It's L, I, M E. It's a bit of a pun.

[Ed Larson]

See, that's very nice. That's probably where she met the drug dealers.

[Marcus Parks]

Quite possibly. Oh, sure, yeah, yeah. Now, Cecilia instinctively knew that no one was gonna stick around if she didn't keep raising the stakes. So she began saying that there had been a spiritual perimeter cast in the area around her apartment by her father, the diabolical Mr. Brown. Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

You will never leave Satan's jurisdiction, which goes from 3rd West 9th street to all the way to 9 West 12th Street. The devil has a three block kingdom that year not be unsullied by the power of Christ. She also said in more serious tones, this is also the time period where she would flippantly say that Mr. Brand would occupy the soul of her husband to rape her in the night. And her father, her soul would jump into the night. And that's the reason why. But then when he would wake up, he would no idea that he did it and everyone woke up having no idea that it happened. And she would say this, and eventually they'd go, man, that is bad. And then they just all move on. Like, it's so weird, the matter of factness. I think it's when you start off by telling people that you're a werewolf. I really mean this. Like, it does make everything else seem like. Well, okay, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, if Cecilia were to cross the border set by her Satanist father, which conveniently ended right outside of the mall and her favorite bar.

[Ben Kissel]

Hey, that's why. I mean, he can't. Satan knows. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

If she crossed these borders, she would immediately drop dead from a death curse. Alternatively, Cecilia would also say that if she crossed the fiendish Mr. Brand's boundaries, she would be set upon by an army of satanic snakes.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes. The best part about satanic snakes is they have mouths at the front and the back.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

They buy two equal opportunity, whether you're in the front or the back. Most diabolical. You never know. It looks almost like spaghetti. You would think at first, the ultimate.

[Marcus Parks]

Deception and they're always angry because they cannot defecate.

[Ben Kissel]

They cannot shit filled with shit. Lumps of it. Hard rocks of snake shit. No Stab Alec. Well, as such, meanwhile, cut to her father, who's still just barbecue and just being like, you know, like she did. She hated roller coasters. I know that much. And so I should have known that not to trust her.

[Ed Larson]

If you see her, say hi.

[Marcus Parks]

As such, Cecilia would spend a lot of time in her apartment concocting so called antidotes for snake bites, just in case the nephew, nefarious Mr. Brand, decided to unleash his demonic snakes just because he felt like it. The death curse borders, however, would change arbitrarily and Cecilia would often cross without consequence if she felt like it. If someone pointed this out, Cecilia would say that the atrocious Mr. Brand was capable of changing the borders at will just to taunt her.

[Ben Kissel]

Just to taunt her, just so that she could go to the Roto Rooters. Because then Satan's, again, not that bad. Yeah, that kind of shows that Satan's kind of lenient. But also sometimes they'd say, you know, we pass the borders. And what she'd do is, which is amazing, she'd go, oh, my God. I, I cannot express you guys, I cannot express you guys that this is literally what she did. And she had these.

[Ed Larson]

And then everyone just believed her.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, they're so stupid.

[Marcus Parks]

Gullible.

[Ben Kissel]

Gullible. Candace, I've been listening to hours of your podcast. I hope you listen to our show. I love you, Candace, and I support you. You need an editor, you need, you need an engineer, you need somebody to come in there to your podcast and fix it, please. We'll put it out on lpn. I want her at the house. I'm inviting you to Marcus's house. I'll give you his personal address. I need you to come here and I will talk with you about this. Put it. It's the true most hidden esoteric knowledge. Because it is so boring that it takes hours to pour through to get anything that is remotely good in the story. But now I got it right, which is just, just remembering that I was like. When you hear Candace talk, she was so like, you know, and then when she told us that she was the werewolf and we all sat, we were very worried, very worried that she was, she was going to do. And then she'd go into the other room and come out and. And these horde fangs would have groaned and she'd go, oh, Cecilia would frighten all of us knowing that she was about to transform. So we'd scatter. We'd scatter. So afraid. She would literally just put vampire teeth in her mouth in the other room.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And they'd run away before anything else had to happen.

[Ben Kissel]

And then she'd go into this other stuff and then.

[Ed Larson]

Oh yeah, yeah. Very annoying.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, well, it's. It just really goes to show you what people will believe when their entire worldview is shattered. I mean, this is, this is like. I mean, apartheid was. I mean it was. You really can't express how horrible it was.

[Ed Larson]

But it was 20 years ago at this point.

[Ben Kissel]

But I will. It does affect the entire vibe of the country, obviously. It affects people across the board, but it's still just like. I don't blame apartheid, honestly. I'm sorry. When it comes to werewolves, it's because it's just like where within the tenets of apartheid does it say that werewolves get an extra vote? If that was a part of it. Honestly, this would be huge. It would be huge if apartheid said that werewolves were also real. That would be amazing.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, really, if you look at it, it took eight years after Obama was elected for QANON to even begin. Because it began with Pizzagate, it began with the spirit roll up, spirit cook and all that shit, you know, from the Podesta emails and all that. So it was, you know, these things take a long time to bubble and it's. And at this point, you know, like it's still like the world that they knew when they were children is no longer the world that they exist within. And the people that are too young to remember any of that are being told by those that are older than them. Like this country used to be safe. It used to be fine until the Satanists came.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, it's all blamed on the Satanists.

[Ben Kissel]

What about the werewolves? So the werewolves were already there, were they? Did they start it? Were they the first. Were they the first ones in Africa?

[Marcus Parks]

Well, she's a 42nd generation werewolf, so that actually the werewolf came from Egypt because that's where her gener. That's where her witch line generation started.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh my good God. Yes, that's right.

[Ed Larson]

No one.

[Ben Kissel]

I was Egypt. That's where the first werewolf eggs came from. Oh, I'm a fucking idiot.

[Ed Larson]

I like cats. I want to see some were prairie dogs.

[Marcus Parks]

That'd be fun.

[Ben Kissel]

I'll show you a weird prairie dog. It's under my fucking pants. That's where.

[Ed Larson]

But it's like that thing where it's like people are so much more ready to believe something that's completely insane than anything logical.

[Ben Kissel]

It's almost like believing in a completely literal version of Jesus and God. Yes, so it seems all kind of go hand in hand.

[Ed Larson]

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[Ben Kissel]

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[Marcus Parks]

You think that all this would be a matter for the police? Because after all, South Africa did have the Occult Related Crimes Unit. Technically they were trained for this.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh yeah, and the government's telling you this shit's as real as fucking can be arrested.

[Marcus Parks]

But Cecilia insisted that the infernal Mr. Brand was in league with law enforcement and any information given to them.

[Ben Kissel]

I created the seatbelt logs. Yes, the most devilish of all the logs. How dare you. Be safe.

[Ed Larson]

$60 a time.

[Marcus Parks]

You thought it was Ralph Nader, but.

[Ben Kissel]

He is truly my puppet, my evil man, my bride. Ralph Nader. How well he suckles upon my satanic balls.

[Marcus Parks]

But any information given to the cops would of course harm Cecilia.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

There was, however, another reason for not going to the cops. Remember that Cecilia's husband was a police officer.

[Ed Larson]

Oh yeah, that's the cop.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah, the guy who's chipped the.

[Ed Larson]

Guy on the couch.

[Ben Kissel]

And I don't know what's happening. Like that's literally this guy's entire role in this whole thing. Him going. Huh? You guys having a good night? Oh, you watching the Wolf man again? Huh? All right, I gotta go.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, I'm gonna order pizza.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go to my gay lover. Because apparently he was gay.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, really?

[Ben Kissel]

According to Candace.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, that's. I don't know about that. I mean, Candace is. I don't know how much to trust Candace.

[Ben Kissel]

Candace, she's like, there's so many things that you just don't understand. The horrid things she showed us all. We were all forced to watch the worst film I've ever seen. You'd all these ghosts in a prison and the one with the breasts out.

[Marcus Parks]

Thirteen Ghosts.

[Ben Kissel]

Thirteen ghosts.

[Ed Larson]

God damn. I just watched that movie. It sucks.

[Ben Kissel]

One of the scary films I've ever. I couldn't believe they'd have all in one house. So many ghosts. Too much. How do you collect rent?

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I'd imagine the reason why Cecilia didn't want anyone going to the cops, because I would imagine she didn't want her husband involved in her scam. But as we'll see later, anytime Cecilia and or her followers started feeling any heat, the investigation would mysteriously stop.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Now Rhea Grunewald's bond with Cecilia was affecting the rest of her relationships in the Christian community. The Lighthouse Full Gospel Church broke contact, followed by other churches and police departments who'd once trusted Rhea as a Satan hunter. Likewise, people stopped booking her enrichment weeks. Rhea blamed all of these severed relationships on the machinations of the Satanic church.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, yeah, that's the only reason why we're not in top 10 iTunes right now. That's all they do. Man has come for us. Especially because this is not the Satanic church. It's the Christian church that's masking themselves as a Satanic church. As we know, that's what's happening inside of the tst. They've been flipped from the inside by Christian ideologues in order to turn themselves into a religion.

[Ed Larson]

Maybe we should change the genre of this podcast to religious.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, I think that's a good way to get some new clients out.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Cecilia only encouraged this belief that the Satanists were behind everything, because with every broken bond, Ria had more time and energy to spend with Cecilia. To make herself even more of a handful. Cecilia claimed that she suffered from dissociative identity disorder. Did More commonly known as multiple personality disorder.

[Ben Kissel]

Just know that. So now hear this. All right, so it starts with contacting Ria, saying that you are this 42nd, just this 42nd generation, most powerful rich in all of Africa. You are being saved every night, every. From the. All of these Satanic attacks, and you're this victim. Then it begins. The health problems. You have all these things going on. Cause it's like you could see it kind of the group, the way it would get together. They would all get together and help her on the high nights, and then it would slowly devolve into them, just kind of hanging out, like, kind of just being a friend group. That used to make Rhea angry because Ria was like, this is serious. We need to really focus on this. Eventually that got to be sort of like, well, how many times is this going to happen? For how long? Like, naturally, people get tired of the story. So then the physical stuff started and then that becomes a new thing. You need to pay for me and do these things for me because I'm physically unable because of the previous attacks. Then it just gets worse. Then she adds the next angle. Like that's what's hard, is that she didn't arrive with DID in front of all these people. No, that sprung up on him.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

About a year in.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, amongst a hundred other personalities, there was Xena. She had a foul mouth.

[Ben Kissel]

I'm a bit of a cunt, but some people say I'm a.

[Marcus Parks]

You also had Aisha, the dangerous and argumentative leader of a thousand lesser demons.

[Ben Kissel]

Don't you tell me how to raise my baby.

[Marcus Parks]

There was also Linda, the master chef, who, quite appropriately for her profession, had quite the cocaine habit.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, my God. You believe I was going to think about it. We got to put it in a new hot tub. And then we were going to go out there and I was going to start a new subway group in the ceiling. And we went up there and it was me, it was me. I started with two squirrels and then I went. I met me and the mailman we were talking about for you. Oh, we need to open up a barbecue restaurant.

[Ed Larson]

Mom, get your mom some cocaine.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Linda was only one of a long list of experts, which included a doctor, a psychiatrist, an engineer, a lawyer and an IT specialist.

[Ben Kissel]

Man, that's super fucking, super convenient to have.

[Marcus Parks]

You also had Daphne, who spoke English and drank tea, possibly named after the Frasier character.

[Ed Larson]

Absolutely.

[Ben Kissel]

That's a fucking copyright infringement.

[Ed Larson]

That's one of the three TV shows they got over there.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep. Then there was Anya, the nervous three year old who loved to play and color. Anya was surprisingly useful because when Cecilia wanted to get back at someone, she could say that the person who displeased had molested Anya.

[Ben Kissel]

But it was Cecilia when she was Anya. So they were only a child molester when they were touching her as Anya, and then they were only attracted to her when she was on you. Which is weird because I've never had. I've played thousands of little boys and I've never been approached by a molester saying, play that little boy again like you did.

[Marcus Parks]

Was Mikey Schatz considered a little boy?

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, very much so.

[Ed Larson]

Mentally, but mentally. But he was grown up.

[Ben Kissel]

He was, yeah. Physically very large. Physically very, very large. Now, again, did is one of the most subtle, weird. It's like a thing that it's very difficult to talk about. Well, it almost Extremely rare.

[Marcus Parks]

Some argue that there are many people that say they've never seen it once in their entire career.

[Ben Kissel]

The let's just say that the jury's out on did. We're not quite certain what's going on with it, but this lady used to do Full on exactly as you think. Each one's a different character. Anya, she would like poop in her pants and fall down and go, like me. Want a chocolate shake from the store? None. She would do this stuff and then they'd all scre to go do stuff for her because. And what Candace kept saying, which I find interesting, she was like. Cause who in their right mind would make up something like this? And it's like somebody that is playing all of you morons like a bunch of fiddles. Sadly, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

It's like if M. Night Shyamalan Split was called Shit.

[Ben Kissel]

Some people did say that. To those reviewers, I say you're incorrect.

[Ed Larson]

That movie's awful.

[Ben Kissel]

I like that.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, it is probable that Cecilia had done her homework concerning satanic ritual abuse, because her whole story, including the multiple personalities, sounds very similar to the discredited 1980 book Michelle Remembers.

[Ben Kissel]

She ripped everything off.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. That was a kickoff point for the satanic panic in America. In Michelle Remembers, a psychiatrist used hypnosis on a woman that, by the way, he later married.

[Ben Kissel]

That's the best psychiatrist of all. He made his patient are the exact type of woman he wants to fuck.

[Marcus Parks]

And he uncovered so called repressed memories. That's also a discredited concept of satanic ritual abuse that had been inflicted upon Michelle by her father. Michelle claimed that starting at the age of five, she was ritualistically tortured through sexual abuse, imprisonment in cages, the witnessing of human sacrifices and enduring rituals in which the blood and body parts of sacrificed babies and adults would be rubbed on her body.

[Ben Kissel]

Always getting rubbed. The worst kind of lotion. It doesn't do anything I've tried.

[Ed Larson]

Well, the blood, you know, they put that in certain facial treatments.

[Ben Kissel]

It's your blood, though.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah, that's not going to be good. Mine's all filled. Liquor.

[Ben Kissel]

You just get drunk in this office. Sir.

[Ed Larson]

I am urinating.

[Ben Kissel]

We know, sir, we know.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, Michelle Remembers has been discredited a dozen times over for a multitude of reasons.

[Ben Kissel]

Keeps popping back up, though.

[Marcus Parks]

But it seems like Cecilia may have read it and taken notes because multiple personality disorder features heavily in Michelle's story. In an echo of what Michelle Remembers claimed, Cecilia said that the satanic ritual abuse that she suffered as a child caused her personality to shatter into a Hundred different identities so she could escape the trauma of what happened to her. Conveniently though, each of these hundreds of individual personalities were susceptible to their own personal demons. Literal demons, which made Cecilia even more high maintenance because she needed a hundred times more attention.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, it's the freelancing gig that just keeps giving for Christ. And it's very difficult because they are already taking all these things seriously. So at this point, you're just seeing dlc. That's what this is. This is the DLC to the main game. Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

The patience these people have.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, my God.

[Ben Kissel]

You say patience. You see, this is I find interesting because I don't think it's patience. I think it's ego. I think that there is a hidden ego in some of these.

[Ed Larson]

We're saving this woman.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

We're doing this.

[Ben Kissel]

We are the only ones capable. We're the ones that are standing between society and the devil. We are the. And they are just little old ladies and little like just normal church people.

[Marcus Parks]

There's also like a fair amount of people in their 20s.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, yes. But they believe wholeheartedly. They are in a one on one match versus the devil himself.

[Marcus Parks]

Mm.

[Ben Kissel]

And guess what? If that was true, they'd fucking lose. Okay. I'm sick of these fuckers. You think that Satan's gonna be put down that easily? I'm just so angry. Yeah. And that idea that you would even be think that you guys would all just get together and just fucking with your dumpy ass. Capri pants. You think you're gonna fucking shut down the devil?

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

You think the Pope can't? No, it can. That's the whole point.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, man. If the devil's after you, you gotta go where it isn't. Sausalito.

[Ben Kissel]

Why is he not on the D? Why is he in salsa?

[Ed Larson]

It's beautiful. Have you ever been?

[Ben Kissel]

I know, but the devil would love to go. That's where vacation is.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Cecilia said that her multiple personalities were a result of her occult programming, which started when her father, the villainous Mr. Brand, buried her alive in a coffin with a small pipe sticking out of the ground. Forever Air. She also claimed that he tied her up with the dogs and made her live like a dog for three weeks.

[Ben Kissel]

Honestly, I could live like car. Me for three weeks.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

She doesn't get quite taken care of.

[Ben Kissel]

Get the little blanket set out. That's actually kind of nice. You know, he puts it out being like, you see, I made chicken. Oh, looks like my little puppy wants some chicken as well. They take her to the Spa. Carmen goes to the spa. Carmen gets all that she take care of. She's a lucky little girl.

[Ed Larson]

I could live like Rambo for a little while.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh yeah. Get care.

[Ed Larson]

Stop walking.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh yeah, that'd be great.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, as far as Cecilia's so called biological mother went. The satanic witch Elise. Cecilia said that she had control over her hundreds of personalities, which helped keep them all in check. This, Cecilia said was Elise's maternal right. But out of the blue one day, Cecilia told Rhea that the satanic church had decided to ritually sacrifice her witch mother Elise, because they really wanted to sacrifice Cecilia, but couldn't get to her for some reason. So they were going to sacrifice her mother in her place.

[Ben Kissel]

This is like what's going on in Ukraine. Brain proxy war.

[Marcus Parks]

No, it's.

[Ed Larson]

But. But nothing. Elise is fine.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, at least doesn't exist.

[Ben Kissel]

No, at least it's not real. Never was.

[Marcus Parks]

Remember Elise is the pic. Remember she showed the picture of the woman from Blade and said this is Elise. Oh yeah. At least doesn't exist at all.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, that's right. That's right. Even her actual mother.

[Ben Kissel]

Barbecue normal lady. Yeah. Literally cuts back to the two of them. He's on the gutter, she's making a quilt. Just being like, like. Oh. She always had such a colorful imagination. This was her favorite color. Blood red. She loved it. She always said that we were the devil's parents and I always thought it was just a slang term.

[Ed Larson]

But either way, tell her we say.

[Marcus Parks]

Hi.

[Ben Kissel]

Is she coming home for Christmas?

[Marcus Parks]

Now, while the so called execution was taking place, burnt at the stake, by the way, Cecilia writhed on the floor while crying and convinced convulsing because she said that her soul had astral traveled to witness Elise's execution. This gave Cecilia's story a little dramatic give and take because she could then say that she should have never left the church. Which required Rhea to console her and tell her that no, no, no, you did the right thing by coming to me and I can save you.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, because Ria's like, this is all.

[Marcus Parks]

Ria has the biggest fucking God complex, biggest savior complex of any person I've ever come across.

[Ben Kissel]

I know that she was heavily embarrassed and she does actually view herself as the truly source of all of the problems here. She was like betrayed by all of these people. But Rhea really didn't help. No, Rhea really went in there and at her beck and call. She made her feel exactly fine and correct about all of her decisions and put aside her entire life to help Cecilia. And I do Believe the reason why is because she thought at the end she'd get a big old book out of it. I think that she thought that she'd looked at Sybil and she looked at these other things. Things. And I'm pretty certain she viewed herself as like the other big Christian celebrities that were coming out about at that, like, earlier, but she would be one of them. Where she would be almost like. Like. Like. I'm trying to think of, like, an.

[Marcus Parks]

Ed and Lorraine Warren style. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes, but for Christ.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. It seems, however, that the ultimate goal here when, you know, when it comes to killing off the mother and saying that, you know, all of the maternal rights over all of Cecilia's personalities have now been given a. It seems like this is like a transfer of a little authority to Rhea, because it seems like Cecilia was very aware of the need to give Rhea just a little bit of power.

[Ben Kissel]

She knows how to play each person in this circle.

[Marcus Parks]

She knew that Rhea needed to have the tiniest bit of control over what was happening here. So Cecilia's like, okay, you can have this over me. But the thing is that she's not giving her any control at all because she's just giving her control over something that doesn't exist. Cecilia told Rhea that when a satanic witch is sacrificed, she is able to bequeath her powers to someone else. And Elise had given Rhea matriarchal rights over Cecilia's multiple personalities. After that, all of Cecilia's personalities would call Rhea Mama. And Ria had a bit of control.

[Ben Kissel]

And she loved it. She just loved this feeling. Like, they all. Like, this is. You got to be careful about setting yourself up for. They asked for it and it came. They wanted a witch to come that they could fix, and it came.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

And this is the problem, is that it completes the cycle of their own delusion.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, but it's. Yeah, that's the problem is that the person who shows up is going to be fucked up and extremely chaotic.

[Ben Kissel]

And because they're also. Because you're asking for a certain parameter of thing, that con person can then completely fit their personality to fit whatever it is that you're talking about. Like, this is. I know that most of our listeners are not into this area of belief. So that's what's hard to believe all of this. Especially, like, the more you listen to Candace because she's always like, it's the details that Cecilia would use that would convince her that it was real. And every one of the details was from a 1980s horror movie. They were not Even made up by her. She was making shit up, man.

[Ed Larson]

And it's just like if she tried this like 10 years earlier, even in Africa, they would have just killed her.

[Ben Kissel]

They would have just literally killed her. She waited. That's why I also feel like in a way it works, cuz it's now we're in this he quote unquote healing time.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, everything that Ria was doing for Cecilia, especially financially, eventually caught up with her. Ria lost her apartment in Florida. The town.

[Ben Kissel]

The town.

[Marcus Parks]

And had to move in with the aforementioned school teacher Mirinda Stain in Kruger. If you'll remember, Mirinda had experienced a spiritual awakening at one of Rhea's enrichment weeks and had in the time since become one of the most ardent believers in Cecilia's tales of Satanism. Now, Mirinda had already been married and divorced twice by the time she joined overcomers through Christ and had come out of her marriages with a girl named Marcel and a boy named Leroux. They were both children when Rhea Grunewald and Cecilia Stain, no relation, came stomping into their lives.

[Ben Kissel]

If Larue, let's just say that's one of the best names for a goon. I've heard it all the time. Like larue, take this man away. Like that's like, that's great. I can see him with like slanted hat. Like a serial minute short. Team boss, take her down. Don't want me to take her down to the basement there.

[Ed Larson]

Boss pushes his bowler hat forward.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh yeah, take a Boss, you want to go down on a swamp tower.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, as far as Cecilia's children went, she'd been pregnant with her second child when she met Ria. And in January of 2008, Cecilia gave birth, bragging that her child was descended from the werewolf bloodline of the Satanic Church and would eventually be taught to walk on all fours and eat from a bowl like a dog.

[Ben Kissel]

This is completely real. So she said to get her used to the wolf slash dog lifestyle that she's got to get used to, which is first of all you have to go, but like that's werewolf lifestyle. Yeah, that's how you know when you do. When you meet another werewolf wolf life.

[Ed Larson]

It'S hard to cross your paw pads like that.

[Ben Kissel]

It is so. It's so hard. My little, my get my little in the middles. It's the middles over. But she used to because when her protein low, she turned into a werewolf. So whenever her protein was though, they had to run out and get her meat like jerky or Whatever. So that she would then not turn into a werewolf. Doesn't really make sense.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

I don't mean to poke holes.

[Marcus Parks]

I guess maybe she. That's the thing is that if her protein was low, she would become a werewolf. So she would.

[Ben Kissel]

Protein.

[Marcus Parks]

So she would be forced to go get protein.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

So there's a logic behind all this.

[Ben Kissel]

Sort of.

[Ed Larson]

And also making your kid walk on all fours and eat out of a bowl on the ground. That's bad.

[Ben Kissel]

No, it's fun. Yeah. No, Eddie, not at all.

[Ed Larson]

Most.

[Ben Kissel]

Most kids are crazy.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Because I love my parents.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. Andrew, do you want to talk about, like, where they got their werewolf ideas from?

[Ben Kissel]

I. This is. This is the part of me that. This is when I literally almost threw my iPhone across the room as I was listening to the show. And Candace does this big roll up where she's like, so soon after her child was born, she showed us one of the most terrifying movies we had seen up until that point. And she'd shown us hundreds of horror films, and I hated each one. But this was the worst because she said, I want to show you the only time that Hollywood has allowed a real werewolf transformation to be filmed with one of their sacred members of the occasion. The lead actor is a member of the occult, and he is himself a werewolf. And this is exactly what she goes through when she goes into the other bedroom to change into her werewolf status at night. And she sat down and she showed us. I shudder even thinking about it to this day. It was the 2010 film the Wolf man with Benicio Del Toro, bro. And that movie to this day, makes me shutter if I see the COVID of it. And when she said that, I was like, what? This is what? And she says, yes, that. That was in her. Cecilia was like, right here. This is the first time anyone's ever filmed my transformation. And it's happening right now. And the Benicio del Toro is a werewolf. And they all sat and watched it together. And they all cr. They all cried in fear. Being like, you go through this each time. And she's like, each time. Each time I do this, do you.

[Ed Larson]

Think they watch the whole movie? Because it's awful.

[Ben Kissel]

The worst wolfman movie ever made. I guess that's also what makes it Halloween. This is a Halloween time. It's 31 for 31. I wouldn't even think of putting the Benicio del Toro Wolfman on a single.31 for 31. Why the living would you waste your time like that? Why did they make the film?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, use An American Werewolf in London.

[Ben Kissel]

There are so many other ones. Gingersnaps, Even Wolf and fucking Silver Bullet.

[Marcus Parks]

I'd say even the Jack Wolf.

[Ben Kissel]

The Howling.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

There's so many others. Just get angry thinking about it because I love the wolf man.

[Marcus Parks]

She would show them, like, an endless amount of horror movies and tell them like, these are. These are coded. These are. This. They're Hollywood. It's the same shit that they say now. It's like Hollywood is showing you what they really do. They're taunting you with what they really do. And it was. Yeah. And they. So they watch horror movies and think they were fucking real.

[Ben Kissel]

And guess what, ladies and gentlemen? It's true.

[Marcus Parks]

So, Henry, you think you're ever going to get in one of those?

[Ed Larson]

A horror movie? Yeah. You know, someone actually reached out to me this weekend and asked me if you'd be willing to do their horror movie for free.

[Ben Kissel]

That's my favorite. I wasn't willing. Something else. Directed by Jeremy Gardner. So I was in one horror film.

[Marcus Parks]

Huh. And did you get any of that, like, Hollywood like, feeling from, you know, all the Satanism?

[Ben Kissel]

We shot him. Florida. Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

I was in a trauma movie.

[Marcus Parks]

I was actually in a trouble movie too.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. You were in Shakespeare Shitstorm.

[Marcus Parks]

I was same as well.

[Ben Kissel]

I was also. Well, I was in the other one. I was in return to Newcomb High too.

[Ed Larson]

That's cool. Turn to return.

[Ben Kissel]

Return to return.

[Marcus Parks]

My wife is also in Nick. Carolina was also in return of Newcomb High too.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Wow.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. She kept her clothes on.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, she did.

[Ben Kissel]

That's respectable.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, in reality, Cecilia barely interacted with her children at all. She never played with them and mostly bought them toys and candy to get her to leave her alone so she could cosplay as a Satanist.

[Ben Kissel]

It. It's just. It cannot be expressed enough that she was just like a white trash. Like, that's the only way to really describe her center of all this. She really is just this, like, piece. You.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Bad parent. Blomp. Mooch on all of these people. She is, I would say, honestly, close to worst roommate of all time. Jerry Brunos is maybe the top one. Or. Oh, he did the wood. Worst roommate of all time.

[Marcus Parks]

Dennis Nelson's gonna be pretty bad.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Jeffrey Dahmer's gonna be real bad.

[Ben Kissel]

Real bad.

[Ed Larson]

He had a roommate.

[Marcus Parks]

No, I'm just saying if.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. I'm just trying to think who's the worst who had roommates? Because she had roommates. Yes, she did. I thought they're all living together.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, we're Getting. We'll get to that. We'll get to that here in a second, okay?

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

But that cosplaying was about to truly get out of hand. And it would take the combined efforts of Cecilia, Ria and the school teacher Mirinda Stain to take this mess to the next level. Together, the three of them developed a training course as a sort of spin off from Overcomers through Christ. This course, which was an even more fundamentalist version of the occult. Training courses Rhea had been doing with her enrichment weeks, was called Know your Enemy, made up mostly of what Cecilia had told Ria about the supposed inner workings of the Satanic Church. Know your Enemy was supplemented with verses from the Satanic Bible, a copy of which that Cecilia just happened to own.

[Ben Kissel]

Which you can buy on Amazon. It's not a. It's not a forbidden tome. You can just buy it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's not an evil. It's not a particularly evil book either.

[Ben Kissel]

Secular humanism mixed with edgelord humor.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Well, the course was also informed by Cecilia's encyclopedic knowledge of serial killers like Dahmer, Gacy, Bundy, and of course David Berkowitz. And Berkowitz of course, been connected to all sorts of satanic activity, thanks to conspiracy theorist Maury Terry.

[Ed Larson]

She probably dogs.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh yes.

[Marcus Parks]

She probably read that book, the Ultimate Evil. Absolutely.

[Ben Kissel]

I'm more than certain she read that book. This is directly. Just remember that each. All of these. Because it's later on, each one of them has been helped. Each one of these pieces of material helped Cecilia do this.

[Marcus Parks]

While developing the Know your Enemy course, Rhea spent most of her days with Cecilia. And eventually Ria moved into Cecilia's apartment. Ria slept in the main bedroom again giving her a little bit of power, while Cecilia slept in one of her kids beds. But Cecilia's husband just slept in the guest bedroom. Stayed the out of it.

[Ben Kissel]

That man is the power of a man to ignore things. I just cannot stand just how deeply powerful that is. How a man doesn't have to engage. And he will. The whole apartment gonna burn down.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

This is my space.

[Ben Kissel]

There's a cube. Man can build a cube around their head in which nothing enters. It's incredible.

[Ed Larson]

Later tonight I will put the dishes outside the door. You will grab them.

[Marcus Parks]

The first Know youw Enemy seminars were held in Krugersdorp within the boundaries that Cecilia said were set by the malicious Mr. Brann.

[Ben Kissel]

Whose house is it? God's house. Ugh. Yeah, that's how it always started, you know.

[Marcus Parks]

Fuck. Well, at first, each one attracted about 25 people. And eventually the Know youw Enemy course grew to become 13 weeks long, with weekly meetings lasting two hours each. But to attract the rubes, know your Enemy had to start off with a bang. In the first presentation, in which Cecilia was going to give all her inside knowledge as a former Satanist, she feigned an attack from Satanic forces and had to be escorted off stage by Miranda.

[Ben Kissel]

It's a James Brown. Yeah, throw the fucking, like, cape over. Being like, work too hard.

[Marcus Parks]

Work too hard. But since Know your Enemy was short on funds in the beginning, because Cecilia was such a financial drain on Ria, they held their meetings at any place that wouldn't charge them money, including, bafflingly, AA meetings.

[Ben Kissel]

Dude, no, man. Trap it right on there, man. I will say, though, I feel like once you do the AA meeting and then you go, know your enemy meeting, I feel like you're gonna want to drink. Yeah. Cause you're fighting the devil, you gotta be kind of half sauced.

[Ed Larson]

Damn, Lo, Cecilia took care of that herself.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, yeah. But I don't think. I don't think fighting the devil's a fucking. For sober people. Most good priests, they gotta get a little tip.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. There's in all those movies. Yeah. The priest always does bring up a little flask and takes a little hit before he goes in.

[Ben Kissel]

You got to, man. You gotta get loosened up. Devil. Fucking devil's fucking tricky, man.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, old Father McNally needs his go go juice.

[Ben Kissel]

That's what I say to myself every Monday morning.

[Marcus Parks]

But when Know your Enemy began receiving a fair amount of donations from the Krugersdorp fundamentalists, Ria was able to get her own apartment. Apartment again, although it was still just 200 meters from Cecilia's apartment.

[Ben Kissel]

And Rhea's like, thank you, Lord. And all the 200 people were like, oh, what about the weed? Gave that.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, obviously, everything Cecilia told Rhea, it's wildly fascinating even knowing that it's fake. But to the people who thought it was real, the information imparted during Know your Enemy meetings was confirmation of everything they'd feared. And since Cecilia was telling a damn good story, know your Enemy quickly grew in size.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, it's kind of like a hate rally or like a Trump rally, where you go. Because it feels good to go hate on a bunch of things because, you know, like this, it's. It's. It's on the offense. You know what I mean? Going against the devil. So, like, that's very inspiring. Like, you go. And it gives you something to do. Well, because you feel like you're a part of an army.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, you get to. Also, that's the thing. You get to hate something and you get to.

[Ben Kissel]

That's bad.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, that's the thing you get to ignore the rest of your life.

[Ben Kissel]

Of course.

[Marcus Parks]

Like, you know, I can't go to the gym today. I gotta go fight the devil.

[Ben Kissel]

The devil's out there. He's not. He's not on the treadmill.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, guess what?

[Ben Kissel]

He is. Yes, he is. We know that. We know that as bigger boys. We know for a fact that the devil is. He's in that chocolate cake.

[Marcus Parks]

Once people really started showing up, Rhea began putting together a comprehensive training manual on how to resist satanic forces. Rhea, however, felt that Cecilia was more qualified to write it. So she passed the work on to her.

[Ben Kissel]

This fucking bitch. Cause she thinks that legitimately, she thinks that she's in control. Rhea thinks she's in control.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

But at the same time, like then you think that you could just off source your work.

[Marcus Parks]

Lots of things. Not surprisingly, Cecilia didn't feel like doing it. So she passed on the work to Candace. Yes, as a result, most of the information in the know your enemy training manuals came from Candace copying and pasting information about resisting satanic forces that had already been posted on the Internet.

[Ben Kissel]

And everybody knows that the devil doesn't like Subway's tuna sandwiches. The battle the worst sandwiches. And we all know that. And we also know that the devil, the devil, not she. But the devil hates when they're late for their massages. So you better get her to their massages as fast as she needs to get there. And the devil hates werewolves, which I didn't know. For a while I thought that the werewolf and the devil will be on the same team. But then werewolves say they're not true werewolves can't lie. To be honest, I'm not even sure how they can tell.

[Marcus Parks]

Minute 46 of the podcast.

[Ben Kissel]

Hours of it. Hours.

[Marcus Parks]

What's so interesting about these courses though, is that they weren't just attended by worry wart Christians. They also attracted wannabe Satanists who wanted to learn how to become one of these infamous satanic high priests, which didn't exist in the first place.

[Ben Kissel]

All these dumbass golf jeans in there being like, it's awesome each time they say something.

[Ed Larson]

Fuck yeah, dude, that was like me and dare class.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. What do the little green ones do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How about the other, how about the blue ones? What do those do? Yeah, really? He's like writing them all down. Uh huh.

[Marcus Parks]

So ironically, Rhea was actually helping to create the very thing she was trying to destroy.

[Ben Kissel]

It's almost like it didn't exist in the first place. It's the only thing that ever fucking existed were the fake stuff of it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Although I'm pretty sure that after attending these meetings, these aspirant Satan. Satanic high priest got bored and just moved on to something else. Danverd. But out of all the people who came, there were some who stayed to become a more active part of the organization. And it was these people who would make up the murderous cult that Cecilia would soon Command. The two main members were 25 year old Zach Valentine and his 21 year old Future wife Mikayla. Now Zach and Mikayla were extra normal people when they joined Know youw Enemy. Working respectively as an insurance broker and a travel agent. Cannot be stressed how fucking regular these people are.

[Ben Kissel]

How can you. Is there a term for being so boring that you can be weaponized?

[Marcus Parks]

Hmm.

[Ben Kissel]

Like what is the term for being like you're such a blank slate that you've just been waiting for someone to come and tell you to do something really fucked up?

[Marcus Parks]

Well, you're waiting for someone to come along and make you interesting.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, that's what all of this is. Yeah, all of this is these guys all believing that like Snowtown, like I'm really looking the differences between the two right where Snowtown was never an official cult, it was more of like a loose grouping. And a lot of it was done socially for various reasons. But it's. It's hard to really even describe what went on in Snowtown where like something like this, like these guys were all waiting for a purpose. And I guess the Snowtown people were also, in a way they believed that they were waiting for a purpose. This is a travel agent.

[Ed Larson]

Who the fuck uses one of those?

[Ben Kissel]

I actually feel like a travel agent. He's also got gotta be a job filled with jealousy. Cause all you do is book people at your work. Like they get to go to Cabo and they get to go to Southern France and they go to Little Edward island and they go all these amazing places. They all take their big private planes from New York down to Little Edward island and some wonderful, incredible people like Bill Clinton and Donald Trump and fucking Bill Nye the Science Guy and Regent Lovell Johnson, they're on the plane. And this wonderful guy named Jeff and he is the funniest guy. He's always loose with the money. I like that guy.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, just before Zach and Mikayla got married in November of 2010. Almost a year after they began attending Know youw Enemy courses, Rhea Grunwald suggested that before they bond their souls together, they should schedule a private appointment with Cecilia Stain to make sure they were both free from curses and demons.

[Ben Kissel]

Yep.

[Marcus Parks]

Coincidentally, Zach already knew Cecilia from a church they'd both attended in the past. Which either didn't set off any alarm bells for the naive Zach Valentine, or it was explained away by Cecilia with a quick lie.

[Ben Kissel]

Hey, last time I saw you, you were saying that the devil made you lactose intolerant. And she'd be like, yes, he was for a while, but now he just does my hair.

[Marcus Parks]

But either way, Zach and Michaela Valentine were quickly brought into Cecilia's immediate sphere of influence. These two people are so fucking gullible now. After Know youw Enemy became a success, Rhea wanted to expand it to include a more positive but infinitely more boring course called Know your Savior.

[Ben Kissel]

Who cares? Honestly? It's Jesus who cares. I know he's right there.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. She did not, however, consult with Cecilia before doing so. And this introduced the first crack in their relationship. See, Cecilia had been playing with Rhea for years by this point, and in order to fully manipulate her, she' put tabs on her supposed protector. In addition to putting a tracking device on Ria's car, Cecilia had also gained access to Rhea's email. These two tactics together allowed Cecilia to make the Satanic Church seem omnipotent.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, one of the big factors that also doesn't come up in the book. I find that the book cut out stuff specifically because it made the story less believable. Like, even though it happened. Like, the werewolf stuff got cut out largely, and the astral projection stuff, stuff with Cecilia.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, that's just protection stuff. There's a fair amount of that in the book, but that's all.

[Ben Kissel]

That's mostly. Candace's proof that she had powers was that she would be able to say things that other people knew what she was astral projecting. But it seemed to largely have to do with having tracking devices and reading people's emails.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, and that was it.

[Ben Kissel]

Makes you super psychic. It's pretty great.

[Marcus Parks]

Rhea, however, wasn't the only person Cecilia played with. Cecilia began catfishing her friends.

[Ben Kissel]

Dude, this is also wild. She did. This is a whole side quest.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, this is crazy. She catfished Candace, Mirinda, and Miranda's two kids, LaRue and Marcel. She would use pictures of models, and these models would reach out to these people and claim that they were trapped in the Satanic Church and had no way out. Lest both they and the person they were messaging with be killed.

[Ed Larson]

So these people just had no, like, connection to the outside world at all?

[Ben Kissel]

No.

[Marcus Parks]

But their world is getting smaller and smaller all the time.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, as with most catfishes, all these fake personalities made excuses as to why they could never talk on the phone or meet in person, usually by saying that Satanic witches were trailing them. And they couldn't risk blowing their cover by talking to Christians.

[Ben Kissel]

And I can't make them know that I feel erotic feelings by kissing you in public, which is why we can only kiss in private.

[Marcus Parks]

The most egregious catfish, however, involved the school teacher, Mirinda, who believed that she was dating a Satanist named John. Reluctant Satan. Satanist. After a few weeks of texting, Mirinda professed her love. And this fake relationship between Mirinda and Cecilia posing as John, it continued for two years.

[Ben Kissel]

Two years. And this is alongside all the other games Cecilia's playing within this group. Keep it all.

[Ed Larson]

It's like the one guy, the.

[Ben Kissel]

The super soccer.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

The horrible super soccer from the worst roommates ever. That. From that show, the first season.

[Ed Larson]

Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes. It's because they have no job.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

And I have nothing to do all day. This is the. This is who you're up against on the Internet. This is what we all have to remember with people like, on Reddit and all this kind of stuff. When you're up against somebody.

[Ed Larson]

The Tinder swindler.

[Ben Kissel]

That's who I. Exactly. When you're up against somebody that has literally nothing but time to sit and think about ways to. With you after they already have you on the hook. That's.

[Ed Larson]

You can't win, literally, her job because she's stealing from all these people.

[Marcus Parks]

She's got.

[Ben Kissel]

Got. Isn't. You're. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Funny.

[Ben Kissel]

And that's why I feel like that's a hidden lesson here, is that treat things like your job, if they were your job.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

She treated it like it was a job she got every. Every day. And she's like, how do I scam harder today?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. I mean, she's, in essence, a criminal.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Very much so. Well, finally, though, Cecilia got bored and killed off the John character. Just to watch Mirinda suffer and suffer. She did so intensely that she had to be taken to a trauma ward. Privately, Cecilia laughed about how thoroughly she tricked her supposed friend.

[Ed Larson]

Who did she laugh to?

[Ben Kissel]

Honestly? I. To myself. That's all I need.

[Ed Larson]

The bartender.

[Ben Kissel]

I remember one time I convinced her so hard that I could eat her pussy through the phone that she put the Pussy put her phone up against her, right? That was crazy, dog. Her clit almost popped off.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, I just called her over and over again.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. Said sit on it like I learned it from Private Parts.

[Ed Larson]

It's like, I thought you used to be an overcomer.

[Ben Kissel]

I didn't know you still were more of an undercomer.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Cecilia would brag about it to Candace. Well, she wouldn't brag necessarily, but she would laugh at Mirinda being in pain. She wouldn't laugh and say like, I was the one who did it. But she would see Miranda in pain. She'd be like. But then she could also blame it on like, oh, it's one of my personalities. Or, oh, that's just because that's my satanic programming acting up again.

[Ben Kissel]

Forgot Marcus. Was because a thing that also came up that I forgot in the research was that what she would do is she would blame her multiple personalities. And every single time she had an issue, she would play the song. Her favorite song of all time, Shaggies. It Wasn't Me. And she would play, but apparently she would have the chorus to It Wasn't Me. Like she'd play it all the time and she'd sing it all the time. So whenever she fucking, any single time she ran into trouble, she'd act like a. Literally like a baby and go, no, no, mean just baby, baby. But then it turns into like, it wasn't me. I can read.

[Marcus Parks]

I can read the chorus for you.

[Ben Kissel]

You could read it in an eight.

[Marcus Parks]

Honey came in and she caught me red handed creeping with the girl next door. Picture this, we were both butt naked banging on the bathroom. How could I forget that I had given her an extra key. All this time she was standing there, she never took her eyes off me. It wasn't me.

[Ed Larson]

It wasn't him, you idiot.

[Marcus Parks]

Also banging on the sofa and had her in the shower. Caught me on camera, marks on my shoulder. I told her the screams getting louder. She stayed until it was over. It wasn't me.

[Ben Kissel]

But still, like, that's just all scratched up. This is all circumstantial. It's circumstantial evidence. It will not hold up in court.

[Marcus Parks]

That's the only good joke from nakedgum33 and a third. I fell on a rake.

[Ben Kissel]

Rise from your grave.

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[Marcus Parks]

Pretty much everyone in Cecilia's orbit was texted either by a Satanist wanting to leave the church or a Satanist who was threatening them. Sometimes Cecilia would even extort money from her friends while posing as a Satanist, even though both Rhea and Candace were still giving Cecilia Cecilia most of their income. Eventually, though, Candace moved in with a mutual friend named Lucia, who saw through Cecilia's bullshit completely. Lucia told Candace that Cecilia was a liar, she was nowhere near as sick as she claimed, and she was just using Candace for her money. Candace refused to believe it at first, but she soon after got a text from her catfish Satanist, a character named Wesley, asking for money. Wesley said, as many catfishers do, that he needed money for clothes.

[Ben Kissel]

Satan took my clothes. And I will need a new phone because Satan likes Androids, so he took my Android.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

And I need new bedding. My bedding has been destroyed by Satan. I need a new pillow. Satan took it. And my towels. Please, please buy me towels if you could. If I send you money, I'm going to send you $5,000. And what I'm going to need you to do is pay me back $10,000. But then what I'm going to do then is pay you $25,000. But first of all, I'm going to need you to send me some towels.

[Ed Larson]

You know, Satan's really into lobster rolls.

[Marcus Parks]

He's crazy.

[Ben Kissel]

Satan actually really wanted to try the new Coke Zero. Oreo flavored. If you could maybe leave some as well.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, still believing the lie, Candace gave Cecilia the money to pass on to the character Wesley, because Cecilia could apparently still talk to Satanists where no one else could. And sure enough, the next time Candace went over to Cecilia's apartment, she found that Cecilia suddenly had brand expensive linens. And so, thanks to Lucia's persistence, Candace finally started distancing herself from Cecilia. Cecilia, of course, caught on and tried to get her back, saying that the Satanic Church was behind this attempt to pull them apart. Candace, however, fortunately for her, broke contact entirely in 2010 and avoided all of the awful things to come.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, Candace goes on to say in her podcast that they never had a lesbian relationship. That all of that was conjured up by Cecilia. Same thing with the real lesbian relationship. He said that was conjured up by Cecilia. She said that they were honestly. And it kind of makes sense a little bit of why she didn't stay because I do think if they were slapping clams they would have. Maybe she would have had more of a reason to stay versus this where they were still friends and it was just the stupidest friendship of all time. And I think eventually she just needed to leave because it, like according to her it was a slow, very, very slow pull out.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean it was. It. They were four years. Four years that Candace put up with a ship with Cecilia. Ah, yeah. But I, I think also like Candace, Candace seems a little.

[Ben Kissel]

What she says she goes along to get along.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that's which is.

[Ben Kissel]

Can you do that terminally?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

People do it every day. Yes, because that's what she did.

[Marcus Parks]

Millions of people die when people go along to get along.

[Ed Larson]

It's like she wants the family, but wants to, you know, none of it to be true.

[Ben Kissel]

She kind of, I think that she was sort of like made to talk. She got into talking about it because she was trying to deal with her quote unquote own trauma. But I actually find it interesting of like it must feel extremely bad to be taken in by somebody that of that. In that level of being dumb.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, Candace is abs. I mean she's very gullible, but she's also a victim.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, I mean like thankfully she didn't commit any murders, which makes her a victim technically, so. And she just got her money taken so that way she can be thankful. But it's hard. I say one half of it's a sunken fallacy thing of like you mad how much time you gave to this werewolf, but then on the other half you thought she was a werewolf girl. Yeah, that should have been first thing.

[Marcus Parks]

Now with Candace gone, Cecilia had another villain. Except now for the first time, this was a person that everyone knew which made everything feel that much more real. You could put a face to the fucking situation. One of their own had betrayed them. The first of many. And it was all because they'd fallen under the influence of the Satanic church.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, she did start wearing tighter shirts.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yes, yes.

[Ben Kissel]

Cuz Candace started wearing tired of her shirts. Cuz Cecilia would always wear very baggy shirts.

[Ed Larson]

Or did she put weight on?

[Ben Kissel]

No, no, no, no. She just said that her own personal preference. So she started dressing quote unquote normal again. Oh, okay. So people thought that she was being sexual.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, about a month after Candace left, Rhea Grunwald's brother died from a terminal illness. And she began to reconnect with her family. And after seeing how much time and money Rhea was spending on Cecilia, her family convinced her that maybe this weird former Satanist wasn't a good person to have in her life. So Rhea decided to put more effort into her know your enemy, know your savior courses. This of course meant less time and money going towards Cecilia's so called health problems and her private battles with the Satanic church. But just as Rhea was pulling away, Marinda, the schoolteacher, was getting closer to Cecilia.

[Ben Kissel]

And that was a feature, not a bug. She purposely was setting up the Next.

[Marcus Parks]

Group in 2011, Mirinda and her children, that's Marcel and Larue.

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

They moved into the apartment complex next to Cecilia's. And Cecilia convinced Marinda to put her daughter Marcel in Cecilia's Service. At just 14 years old, Marcel was put in charge of raising Cecilia's young children, aged three and five. She also would cook for Cecilia and clean her apartment.

[Ben Kissel]

Awesome.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

She was her servant. And since they were hanging out so much, Marcel and Cecilia, as well as Marcel's 16 year old brother Larue, they all started doing coke together.

[Ben Kissel]

It's wild. I. Candace said something that also I found very illuminating was that it seemed that Cecilia during this time period was collecting people that could be useful to her. Yeah, that people were outside. There were chefs, obviously. There were also people that were like one of them was a worked an accountant's the other would like. So she ended up like one end of being a nurse. So what she did was use all of them as her own personal staff. Yeah, and that was kind of like, that's like the first thing my first hook in of like. So that's the practical reason she wanted a cult, which she kind of wanted a bunch of people to wait on her hand and foot.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. But if the cook's a 14 year old, the food's got to be awful.

[Ben Kissel]

Hey man, I saw Master Chef junior.

[Marcus Parks]

You never know. Cecilia had also convinced Mirinda, as well as four other people claimed close to her, to leave their various churches because Cecilia said that the leaders of large churches were all involved in the occult. And so once Cecilia really dug her claws into a handful of overcomers, she decided it was time to start her own Christian ministry. Especially after she lost control of Candace and Rhea. This ministry, Cecilia's own little boutique cult, was called Electus Perdus, meaning Chosen by God in Latin. And Cecilia elected herself as leader.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, wow. Good for her.

[Marcus Parks]

Among a few others, Electus Perdeus was made up of the naive Zach and Michaela Valentine, a couple named Juanita and Charl Truder, and three women named Amber Dupreeze, Melanie Vandermerve and Natasha Berger. Cecilia's most ardent follower, however, was Mirinda Stain, who isolated herself and her two teenage children from all their friends and family and shit got weird and demanding almost immediately.

[Ben Kissel]

Do you know, like, we talked about this the last time, where it's like that idea of being overly familiar. Why do some people react well to it and some people don't? Like, why is this idea of having this busy body come in your life? Why does, why do some people.

[Ed Larson]

Because no one else gives a shit about them?

[Ben Kissel]

Is that what it is? But she did have people who cared about. Mirinda had people who cared about her. They had her own kids and she had family. She had people outside of this. They had their own church. Like, what is it about people that like this type of highly needy, like, succubus thing, isn't it some kind of.

[Marcus Parks]

I think what it is, it's like it's the same sort of thing that you see with Trump, but with the genders reversed. It's the strongman thing.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, sure.

[Marcus Parks]

It's like it's. Someone's gonna tell them what to do.

[Ben Kissel]

And then life is easier that way. That's what Candace said. Candice said it in her own way where she was like, it was kind of a relief because she didn't have to choose how to. It was kind of nice because enough to think about what to wear in the morning and you're like that little, little simple thought you just had is literally like, so you gave up your will to another human being. Which is obviously what she's working all out of. Like she's. She's in therapy, working on it.

[Ed Larson]

Really makes me miss the days of Yonker Donker.

[Ben Kissel]

I know. Sometimes I wonder, will they ever bring back pina colada Donkey Yonkers? I don't know if they will.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, while know your enemy and overcomers through Christ had been more educated, Cecilia immediately made Electus Perdius more action oriented, focusing on the deliverance and rescue of victims of the occult. The problem was that the so called victims didn't exist and Cecilia had to keep raising the stakes somehow. So it was only a matter of time before the focus of Electus Perdus would fall on the only other people they knew in the Satan game Overcomers through Christ. Now, most of the Electus per Dieus members got Electus per Dieus tattoos immediately.

[Ben Kissel]

Cool.

[Marcus Parks]

With some just getting the words and other choosing a Celtic knot with the words tattooed inside the circle, like Casey Anthony.

[Ed Larson]

I will say it's the best name so far.

[Marcus Parks]

Electus per day. Yeah. It's out of overcomers through Christ and know your enemy. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Electus Per day. I mean, that's the thing. Woman knows how to brand.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

The tattoos, however, were too much for some of the early members.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Melanie Vandermeer left almost immediately and I think got out of the whole anti Satanist scene altogether.

[Ben Kissel]

I think it's probably a good sign. Just be like, I think I could go. Yeah, I think I could just go get into rugged cupcakes or food trucks.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. I just go to church every Sunday and I think that'd be fine. But Natasha Berger returned to Ria Grunewald and the Overcomers through Christ. This would prove to be a fatal decision. Now, like Charles Manson, Cecilia fed her cult illicit drugs in order to better control them. But while Manson used acid, Cecilia used a much more unpredictable meth. And the group would smoke about 400 bucks worth of meth every week.

[Ben Kissel]

You ever see that? You ever read that allegorical story when Jesus turned meth, Turned the meth into powder, and then it was like baby powder, but then he turned. Everyone got mad at him. They're like, why'd you ruin the meth? So we turn it back into meth? And they all were like, yeah, what's wrong with me? Meth's awesome.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Now, if I remember, wasn't Peter the apostle, like, a huge method?

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, yeah, dude. Peter had fucking. His whole thing was that he'd do anal for money to get meth. He was gay for pay. I need to get money for the math. And then he would. And then Jesus would multiply it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And then he walked on whiskey.

[Ben Kissel]

I've been wondering. Honestly, I missed that little tidbit. I was like, what Tournament of Murder? And then I was like, yeah, meth will do it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. I don't know if $400 a week is a lot of meth. I know it might not be a lot of meth. I don't know stories.

[Ben Kissel]

Lpotl@gmail com.

[Ed Larson]

I wonder what the meth in Kruger Dorp is like, as opposed to, you know, Boise, Iowa.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Actually wonder. Do you think they got better meth in South.

[Marcus Parks]

I think America has the best meth in the world.

[Ed Larson]

We have to. We better have the best meth.

[Ben Kissel]

We're being very American centric.

[Marcus Parks]

We might be. We might be. I don't know.

[Ben Kissel]

There could be the old country and great meth.

[Ed Larson]

If you do meth in South Africa, please write in side stories.

[Ben Kissel]

In the. In the radio. We are people.

[Marcus Parks]

I hear Eastern Europe has incredible meth.

[Ben Kissel]

I hope so, for their sake.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, after getting everyone good and paranoid, Cecilia continued using prepaid phones, posing as various satanic witch personalities to scare every Electus Perus member into thinking they were in constant danger.

[Ben Kissel]

And the best part about the meth is that you don't have to be as good at all the different voices.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

How did you keep the phones right? Cuz she must have like 15 phones.

[Ben Kissel]

It was her only thing. It was the only thing she had to do all day long.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Cecilia, however, turned the messages into a positive, saying that if they were getting threatening messages, then that meant that they were on the right path.

[Ben Kissel]

See?

[Marcus Parks]

But even so, Electus Pereus continued to shed members and Charl and Juanita Truder left. Charl Truder is the worst fucking name I've ever heard in my life. You leave Charles.

[Ben Kissel]

You leave me alone. Yes, I have a slug's head, but I still unfortunately have the blood and body of a man.

[Ed Larson]

I'm named after my gnarled vagina.

[Ben Kissel]

A tutorial.

[Marcus Parks]

They left in June of 2011. See, Cecilia had officiated Charl and Juanita's wedding and the abrasive Cecilia had rubbed Charles family the wrong way because it's.

[Ben Kissel]

Just the way she acts. I could tell about this. She reminds me of someone we used to work with a long time ago where they were just. They were just so brilliant and all they did was like. I could just see her laughing and smoking and giving a werewolf ceremony where they're talking about fucking the meat. I don't know what you do in a werewolf wolf wedding ceremony.

[Ed Larson]

Charl and Juanita is like Bonnie and Clyde. If it was only in Whataburger Drive.

[Ben Kissel]

He's been sitting on it.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, listening to family, just like Ria had. Charl left with his wife and even tried getting Zach and Michaela to leave with them. They declined, mostly due to what Cecilia was telling them about people who left Electus Pereus. The exodus of so many people from this small group was not because of Cecilia or anything she did or how she acted. Nothing like that. But because of the incredible power of the demonic. Mr. Brad.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes. I created a groupon where they all get tickets to have a wonderful bus tour of the central states. Of Canada. Yes. The most diabolical, most boring of vacation. You cannot resist a group bus ride through central Canada.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, cecilia said that Mr. Brand had brainwashed all of them into not only leaving, but into becoming murderers on his behalf. So everyone that left was not only now a Satanist, they were also a murderer, and they were very, very dangerous. That's what Cecilia is telling everyone, is that everything outside of this room that we're in right now is extremely dangero and life threatening. And even inside this room, they can also still get to me. So you have to protect me at all times. Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

But as soon as this meeting's over, everything's fine and you're just gonna go home and nothing's gonna happen.

[Ben Kissel]

It is kind of like that. Yep.

[Marcus Parks]

But they're also en mass, and they're imagining that around every corner is a Satanist that tie every shadow, every car that might take the same route as them, all that it's all Satanists. And they're also getting text messages when they go home from Satanists, supposed Satanists, saying, I'm gonna come kill you.

[Ben Kissel]

You're.

[Marcus Parks]

You're de. That I'm.

[Ed Larson]

They're on meth, are they all the time?

[Ben Kissel]

No, they're family. Well, they would have, according to Candace.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Candace left before the meth, but.

[Ben Kissel]

Afterwards she was saying that they were beginning to have sexual threesomes, that Mirinda was having sex with Cecilia, and then they brought in another dude and they were having threesomes. But I. I don't know. I see. I prefer. I wish the sex wouldn't get involved because. Because I think it's kind of nice to have a family can do something together because it's so hard, you know, like, if you're having a big meth orgy and your son's there, it's not that fun, I guess, unless you're. Everybody's on methamphetamine. I've never done drugs with my mother. Yeah, I just wonder what that'd be like.

[Ed Larson]

We wouldn't do meth, but, you know, we would drink.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, I've taken my mom's 500 milligrams. Motor patrons before.

[Ed Larson]

Hell, yeah. That's fun now.

[Marcus Parks]

By the end of 2011, Marinda and her children were brought even further into Cecilia's orbit. Mirinda moved into Cecilia's building, taking an apartment on the floor above. Mirinda then forbade her children Le Roux and Marcel from speaking to anyone outside of Electus Per dais, because she truly believed that agents of Satan were constantly trying to get To Cecilia and by extension the rest. Rest of the cult. Cecilia then had Zach Valentine sign over all his income to Electus per day, partly because she just wanted the money because remember Cecilia and Candace, they're gone. And partly to bolster a lie that would eventually motivate the cult to commit their first murders.

[Ben Kissel]

When do you think murder enter her into her mind?

[Ed Larson]

Meth.

[Ben Kissel]

Just meth.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't think until later when they.

[Ben Kissel]

Realize like what, oh, we're just going to murder now? I think that this is going to give us purpose.

[Marcus Parks]

We're about to start the escalation. But I think it didn't, I don't think murder entered her mind until she felt that murder was the only thing left to escalate to.

[Ben Kissel]

Sure, yeah, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

No one has died yet.

[Marcus Parks]

Not yet.

[Ben Kissel]

Not yet.

[Marcus Parks]

Cecilia told Electus Pereus that Zach's money was going towards an orphanage in America that housed 200 children who had been abandoned by Satanists who didn't want their children to suffer the indignities of being raised amidst satanic rituals and sacrifices.

[Ben Kissel]

That's making sense. Yeah. So the idea is that it was self hating Satanists.

[Marcus Parks]

It was Satanists who didn't. They were Satanists. Because that was always the thing that she could say is that Satanists, all Satanists want to get out, but they can't get out because they were held.

[Ben Kissel]

In because of family bonds and because of they are made a deal with.

[Marcus Parks]

The devil or no, they'll help. If they don't. If they leave, they'll die.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

If they leave for various reasons. Yeah. If they leave, they'll be killed. So every Satanist can. It's like Schrodinger's Satanist. But she left. Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Because she was so powerful they allowed her to leave.

[Marcus Parks]

She's a 42nd generation satanic witch. Werewolves.

[Ben Kissel]

Werewolves, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

So she, you idiot. Yeah. So she can lead, but like lower Satanists. They're both, that's the thing. They're both, but they are both evil Satanists who want to kill you and also lost souls who want to leave all at the same time. Always. It's all. I know, it's probably. I know a lot of you listening might be like confused at times, but that's because Cecilia purposefully made it confusing.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Like she wanted to make sure. She wanted to make sure everyone was off balance at all times.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, it's also supposed to feel legitimate.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

You know what I mean? So the idea is that we are slowly adding detail and doing all these things to make it legitimate. But Also, again, meth.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. And she could also, if she makes things confusing, that also allows her to be condescending towards people who ask her questions like, you don't understand.

[Ben Kissel]

That's how she always was. She was like turbo tax. She. Honestly, she is. I think that's a massive word for her. Is she fucking condescending? She's so fucking annoying. When you see her talking to these cops, she's such a fucking annoying bitch. Gotta hate her.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, she's awful. Well, about the orphanage, because this orphanage lie. This is a very, very big part of what happens with Electus. Per day, she said, There's 200 kids that were held in this orphanage in America. But Electus Perdeus need not worry, because Cecilia was communicating with these children through the actual astral plane. And with Zach's money, she would one day get them to safety. In reality, Cecilia was depositing all this money in her own bank account where it was safe. Yeah, yeah. And over a period of three years, Zach would transfer over 100 grand to Cecilia.

[Ben Kissel]

What are these people's jobs? That's all their money everyone's spending.

[Ed Larson]

Giving this lady so much fucking money.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, it's 100 grand over three years since every dime that he made.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, God. Now, it's debatable what Cecilia's motivations were for what she did next, but personally, I think she was just trying to start the fight with the Overcomers through Christ so she'd have a reason to go after them.

[Ben Kissel]

I think now she's just so high in her own supply that all she wants to do is kill.

[Marcus Parks]

See, Cecilia ostensibly tried getting back into Rio Grunwald's good graces by offering to buy Rhea a new car.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, wow.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, probably with Zach's money. Rhea declined the offer and also told Cecilia that she couldn't rejoin the know your enemy slash savior courses, even after Cecilia begged her.

[Ben Kissel]

How? But could she leave her out? Cecilia's the draw.

[Marcus Parks]

But after Cecilia established a rift between herself and the Overcomers through Christ because Rhea had rejected her, she accused Rhea of speaking with Satan and sent her this message.

[Ben Kissel]

Playtime is over. This is war.

[Marcus Parks]

Cecilia then went back to Electus Perdus and told them that Rhea Grunewald was now playing for Satan's team. And they all therefore needed to go to any links to help Cecilia, say, because if Satan can get to Rhea, she can get to anybody.

[Ben Kissel]

Anybody. Because Rhea's fucking man, her vagina was sealed shut by Mary in a dream. She can't have sex if she even wanted to. Her Pussy was joined.

[Ed Larson]

She's a dog's vagina.

[Ben Kissel]

Opposite of Moses. She was the opposite of Moses.

[Marcus Parks]

Starting small to roll her people into something bigger and to test their loyalty, Cecilia began her Colts road to murder with petty acts of vandalism. In February of 2012, Cecilia had her cult members smash and destroy the car of a local pastor named George Nell, who had worked closely with Ria Grunwald and the Overcomers through Christ.

[Ed Larson]

It's the only good thing she ever did so far.

[Ben Kissel]

This is fun again, all of this. If this was just shenanigans, if it all was just shenanigans, it'd be different. We're not like Joseph Fritzl shenanigans.

[Marcus Parks]

No.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh yeah, but it'd be different.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Well it's the thing is that like when you have shit like this, that's just shenanigans. It's just a story that people tell in your small town. Yeah. Like you know those wacky felt like, you remember that shit that happened back in like 2012 when that fucking woman Cecilia convinced all those people to like make bombs and shit?

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah, that was funny.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Kruger, Dork.

[Marcus Parks]

Kruger's dope. Well after that, Cecilia had her people slash the tires of cars belonging to Overcomers during their meetings. Terrified, the Overcomers changed venues. But Cecilia acting as her eight year old spoiled child personality, Lily, she was waiting for them. Rhea separated from Cecilia, but still believing her story completely. She was alarmed because the meeting place was out of the bounds of Cecilia's so called death boundaries that had been set by the heinous Mr. Bran.

[Ben Kissel]

I just don't fucking get it. Cause then you'd be like, well then she'll die if she's the enemy and she's getting away. But then you're like, oh my God, she's just so powerful.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that's the, that's the crazy thing about Rhea is that even after she separated from Cecilia, she could never bring herself until everything, you know, fell apart, you know, and they were. She was charged with 11 murders.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Like she was never able to bring herself to think like maybe Cecilia's lying. Oh yeah, she had to. She had to believe that Cecilia was.

[Ben Kissel]

Real because it would discredit every single thing that she did with Ria.

[Ed Larson]

It seems like it's currently falling apart.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh no, it's gone further.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Cecilia's presence didn't stop Rhea and the Overcomers from continuing their fabricated mission. And some members were starting to stand out. Natasha Berger, who had returned to the Overcomers after a brief stint At Electus per dais, she had been impressing Rhea with her dedication to the cause. Somehow the overcomers had got word of the 200 fictitious American orphans and they believed the story as well. So Natasha would use her lunch breaks to say prayers for the abandoned children of Satanists.

[Ben Kissel]

People need shit to do. They need other things to care about.

[Ed Larson]

We don't even have orphanages anymore, right?

[Ben Kissel]

No, we throw them in the street, we kill them, we grind them up in the war machine, okay? Get used to it, you're dumb.

[Marcus Parks]

At Rhea's request, Natasha then spoke about the orphans at the next know your enemy savior meetings and led the group in prayer so God could get the heads up that he needed to help some children in America.

[Ben Kissel]

And what was God like? Oh, shit. Whoa. I didn't know that. Let me look into that. Oh, 200 kids. I should have done something. Whoa. Gotta go over there. There's a hurricane that came out of my butt. Sorry. Florida.

[Marcus Parks]

Damn, dog.

[Ed Larson]

I was sleeping.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, shit. I guess I could do something, but I fucking won't. There we go. I just got. All right. I made another baby with two heads.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I never got that fucking concept that, you know, the more people pray for something, the more God is likely to do something about it. Like God is some unemployed asshole who needs to be asked a million before he'll fucking get off his ass and do anything.

[Ben Kissel]

Like God's a lame duck president who has to look at the polling to decide that he can do something about it.

[Marcus Parks]

Now remember, Cecilia had complete access to Rhea's emails. So she knew about Natasha's speaking engagement. So Cecilia called Rhea the day after in a tizzy and said that she was in the hospital because Natasha's prayers had killed 171 of the 200 children. And that's how you know it's real. Because it's a weird number. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

What does that. What does that even mean?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, she killed 171. And it. It had disturbed Cecilia so much she was now in the hospital and Cecilia was screaming at Rhea. According to Cecilia, all the children carried death curses and those curses had to be broken before the children could be prayed for.

[Ben Kissel]

Makes me want to mash my head into the table.

[Marcus Parks]

If the curses weren't broken first, the prayers would. Church triggered the curses and killed the kids on the spot.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, sorry, everybody. Think about me being God and powerful and stuff like that. I just fucked shit up. Yeah, I fuck shit up. And everybody got fucking dealt with.

[Ed Larson]

The zombies and the media refused to report on it.

[Ben Kissel]

I'M sorry. God did. Sorry, y'all.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Cecilia then said that the sickness parents of those children, they knew what the Overcomers had done and they were coming for Natasha in particular to take their revenge. She's planting a see of a story here now. Interestingly, even though many members of Electus Pereus had received hundreds of threatening text messages from so called Satanists, they didn't bat an eye when Cecilia instructed all of them to text the Overcomers pretending to be Satanists.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, she's like. Well, they're all like, what? She's like, just don't worry about it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, don't worry about it.

[Ben Kissel]

You thinking about it? Don't think about it.

[Marcus Parks]

And. And they all did Cecilia's bidding. They focused on the orphan angle. Just texting everyone all the time. You killed the orphans. We're coming for you. We're coming for you, Ria. Meanwhile, she's finally done with Celia, with Cecilia. One night, Cecilia called and said that she was about to die because a death curse had been activated and only Rhea could save her. Rhea called Cecilia's bluff and was probably not that surprised to hear that Cecilia was still alive the next day. After that, Rhea broke off all contact and ignored all of Cecilia texts and calls. Ria, however, still thought the Satanic church was texting the Overcomers and never once thought that if Cecilia had been lying about the death curse, she might have lied about everything.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh God. It was just like this. When Candace breaks down about the. There was like some story, same thing with the orphanages. That's what she talked about was like the orphanages were like. When she was like, there had to have been maybe of all the lies that Cecilia said, hey there in this one story, as a bit of a carnal half truth to it. And I'm sitting there like, shut the fuck up, Dennis. Shut up. She lied to you. She's all right. She never said a single true thing.

[Marcus Parks]

It's.

[Ben Kissel]

Fuck, I'm sorry. I'm sorry it happened to you, Candace. You just gotta fucking let go.

[Marcus Parks]

There's just not. Cabals of Satanists ritualistically murdering people. It just doesn't exist.

[Ben Kissel]

We're going to Hollywood Horror Nights. We're yelling about putting the fucking Baphomet statue next to the Ten Commandments in a fucking. In front of a courthouse. We're mostly not even talking Satanists.

[Marcus Parks]

You mean Satanist.

[Ed Larson]

Satanist.

[Ben Kissel]

You know what? When I hang out with my Satanist friends, what's the last thing we talk about? Satan. Most of the time we're Just hanging out.

[Ed Larson]

It's just like a fuck you to the fucking squares.

[Ben Kissel]

That's all boys to be annoying. That's a point. I'm annoying on purpose. I have honed this now.

[Marcus Parks]

Cecilia was outraged that Rhea had finally returned. Rejected her for good. So she told the Electus per dieus members that they had to provoke fear amongst the overcomers so they would stop the practices that brought death to 171 children in America. They had to stop praying for the children.

[Ben Kissel]

Hey, Cecilia, what if we attack the Satanists?

[Marcus Parks]

Too powerful. Too powerful.

[Ben Kissel]

But you're the most powerful Satanist. Which werewolf that existed? What if you flip on them? It seems like that would be the ultimate coup.

[Marcus Parks]

But I'm one Satanist against a whole world of Satanists. And even though I'm a powerful Satanist, I'm not powerful is all the Satanists put together. You fucking idiot.

[Ben Kissel]

Stupid. I'm stupid. I'm so stupid. I'm stupid. Let me just. Yeah, let's fucking get him. I want to fucking crucify him. Yeah. I want to see blood.

[Ed Larson]

Let's kill the orphans.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, the orphans. Go to the orphans. Oh, I don't care. I don't care. Let's kill some orphans.

[Marcus Parks]

So at Cecilia, do you think if.

[Ben Kissel]

We send them to war, they'd be Warfons? That's cool. That's the one you should flip for them.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, you get rid of them and you can get. You kill their families, you know, and then you have Morphins.

[Ben Kissel]

Whoa, fun. Morphins needs to be the name of our daycare.

[Ed Larson]

Always accepting more children.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, at Cecilia's command, the teenaged Larue Stain learned how to make bombs off the Internet. Lynn, by the way, Larue Stain is a name that does not sound like a name. It is a name.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, Larue Stain is like does. It's a little mini Frenchman. It's again, it's the same. It's a goon building bombs up in a you. Do you want to something something blows up. I believe I can work something out like that, my friend.

[Ed Larson]

How about Larue stand in my underpure Now.

[Marcus Parks]

The first Bombing, held on July 4, 2012, was an unqualified failure. That night, during an overcomers meeting, Zach Valentine and Marcel Stain placed bombs, somewhat like Molotov cocktails, under the cars of a few members. But one of the overcomers smelled gas and saw Zach and Marcel planting the bombs. And they called on all the other overcomers to help chase him away. Rhea, however, didn't suspect Cecilia at All and announced that this was proof that the Satanic Church was finally coming for her.

[Ben Kissel]

That's all she wanted. This is the problem, is that Rhea is getting what she wants out of this.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. But while the first attempt was awash, Electus Perdus Next bombs were fought more successful. Using blank ammunition filled with shrapnel and firecrackers sealed in soda cans. 2 Electus per day members bombed Ria's car and damaged it enough where it had to be towed away.

[Ben Kissel]

No way.

[Ed Larson]

Not the tow truck.

[Marcus Parks]

And they said they left some like, bombs in the. Like some holes in the yard. I mean, they were. If they would hit people, they would have killed them.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, I'm saying. I'm just saying that it's. It's just funny. It is how bad they can be. And being supervillains at first. Oh, yes.

[Marcus Parks]

A few days later, Cecilia convinced this group of Christians to burn down a church using glass lanterns. Miranda, Zach, Michaela and Marcel bombed the Lighthouse Gospel Church and left a note on the gate that read, who is going to protect you now, Ria?

[Ben Kissel]

But then they're all like, so we're pretending to be Satanists? I'm like super confused in this whole. This whole bit.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, no, no, it's all. Point is keep you off balance.

[Ben Kissel]

Whoa. Are you right?

[Ed Larson]

Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Let's piss on her. I saved my piss. Was I supposed to be doing that? Yes, my friend. I think that you saving a piss is one of the nicest things I've heard a man do today. Good work. Let me see that piece. My favorite little girl I've ever met.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, the police did get involved here and the investigators were able to pull a fingerprint from newspaper wrapped around one of the bomb fragments. It belonged to Mirinda Stain, the schoolteacher. And she was interrogated, but she was only issued a warning and the court case was stricken from the records.

[Ben Kissel]

See, this is where somebody had to be involved. She built a fucking bomb and set.

[Ed Larson]

It off at a church.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, it's unclear why or how Mirinda Stane was able to get out of this, but it's a pretty safe bet to say that Cecilia's police officer husband got involved and was able to make the whole thing go away.

[Ben Kissel]

I just feel like a fine honey.

[Ed Larson]

Don't do okay.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh. Domestic terrorism. Current. Or at least as long as it's not in the living room. I just don't understand where, like, that's huge. That's not a cops. Like, let's dispel some mysticism about some police officers. Yeah, they do they can fudge, but you're talking about, like, lifting cocaine out of an evidence room. You're talking about getting you off on a speeding ticket. You talk about getting a hummer instead of fucking arresting him for dui. It's not like this.

[Ed Larson]

It's terrorism. Notoriously one of the most corrupt police forces in the world.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, you're talking American cops. Like, this is not. This is South African cops where they can absolutely sweep something like this under the rug. Now, fully emboldened, Cecilia told the members of Electus Pereus that Rhea and the Overcomers were actively working against them. The bombings had been an attempt to stop Natasha and the Overcomers from killing more children through prayer. But according to Cecilia's astral projections, they had not not stopped praying. So, as Cecilia put it, Electus Perdus had two choices. Either Cecilia would surrender herself to the Satanic church so she could stop the killing herself, or they could murder Natasha Berger. This was Cecilia's biggest gamble, the ultimate test of just how good her story really was. Unanimously and without question, the cult agreed to kill a fellow Christian, a person that had once been a member of their group and was known to each one of them personally.

[Ben Kissel]

And I do think that this is where. And I. Maybe this is the inappropriate comment to make, but this was her ultimate triumph, which is she's got to them. These guys are really doing something that is against their very nature. Yeah, These people are not murderers, but I guess meth really does help.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Put some pep in your step and kind of get you in a bit of paranoid wait thinking.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And they've been under Cecilia's, you know, influence for years.

[Ben Kissel]

Five years now.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, for years at this point. And so it's. It's a long time. This has been a slow roll up, actually. Zach and Michaela Valentine, they've only been in it for about two years at this point. They joined in 2010.

[Ben Kissel]

It's a quick turnaround. Yeah, I think it's ready to go, man.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Now, Cecilia was admittedly quite clever when it came to planning this operation. She gleaned information from a former Electus Per Day member about Natasha's work hours, who her neighbors were and what security was like at her housing complex. Because, you know, in South Africa you have a lot of complexes where they.

[Ed Larson]

Have walls, private security companies, all kinds of crazy.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. This was under the auspice of protecting Natasha because Cecilia told the former member that she'd had visions that Natasha was going to be killed by Satanists. So Cecilia both got the Information to plan the murder. And she planted a story, drew attention away from her, all in one fell swoop. And so when the cult was ready, they stole license plates and put them on their own cars so they wouldn't be caught if there were security cameras at Natasha's housing complex.

[Ben Kissel]

A lot of steps to take people through. And I honestly think it does help the act of murder.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, very. You have to slow roll. You know, you can't just hand someone a live a knife and say, go do it. You have to make it an operation.

[Ben Kissel]

You ever see that show where the magician convinces people to go on the heist? No, dude, you should see it. They. I think they banned it. BBC. You should look at this. It's wild. It's. This guy basically proves you can drive people to do things against their will. And is this famous sort of stunt magician. I forget his name in the uk and he does this thing where he essentially takes five strangers and he convinces them to rob a bank.

[Marcus Parks]

My God.

[Ben Kissel]

It's all. But it just shows it like it can happen.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Cecilia. However, when they finally went out to the Lancelot complex in the town of Weir park, where Natasha lived, Cecilia hung back. She didn't go with them? No, she hung back for every single murder. She would never be present for any of them.

[Ed Larson]

She's got 20 diseases. She can't do anything.

[Ben Kissel]

She's got an oxygen tank. She can't be sitting there.

[Ed Larson]

Do you think there was even oxygen in the tank?

[Marcus Parks]

No, I have no idea.

[Ben Kissel]

No, it was empty. That's how she got to carry it around so easily.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And they all. And also remember she is. She can't leave the borders. The satanic Mr. Bran borders. Now, the cult's first plan for killing Natasha Berger was to have the teenage girl, Marcel Stain, knock on Natasha's door and say that her cat was missing.

[Ben Kissel]

That's like the beginning of a pornography.

[Marcus Parks]

She would ask if she could check Natasha's backyard, and once inside, she would use a taser to knock Natasha out, and the rest of the cult would storm in and stab her to death. Jesus. But when Marcel knocked on Natasha's door and told her the cat story, Natasha got irritated and said, I ain't got no cat in my yard. Get out of here.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And she didn't recognize her.

[Marcus Parks]

No, she didn't recognize her. The cult returned to Cecilia and she decided in a plan that's down, downright diabolical, to use Natasha's elderly neighbor Joy Boonzer as bait. And so on July 26, 2012, Zach and Michaela Valentine, wearing wigs, left Kruger's door. Beehive and Afro left Kruger's door with knives, a hammer and a gift wrap present. They arrived around 5pm and knocked on the door of the elderly Joy Boonzer and told her that they were friends of Natasha who wanted to surprise her for her birthday.

[Ben Kissel]

I remember friends, they used to come by and what I would do is I would strangle them and eat their meat again and again. And it's just nice to see some new young flesh.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Joy, thinking nothing was a mess, she invited them inside for tea.

[Ben Kissel]

Please see me. Please be around me.

[Ed Larson]

I mean, honestly, that's what happened.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But as soon as Zack and Mikayla stepped inside, Zach pulled out his knife and ordered Joy to write an urgent note to Natasha telling her to come see her as soon as she got home from work. Joy wrote the note, which Mikayla slid underneath Natasha's door. Now, Cecilia added an extra level of manipulation to this murder by telling Zach that while he should kill Natasha, his wife Mikayla needed to be the one to kill Joy Boonzer, because Mikayla needed to learn how to murder a human being because there was gone to be a lot of murder in their future.

[Ed Larson]

So for no other reason than just practice, they. They kill Joy.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, to get rid of a witness.

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And she gave, said it like this.

[Ben Kissel]

Like this is all going to. This is under the auspices in the end of, we're going to be doing this for Christ.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. But when it came time to slaughter the terrified, trembling old woman, Michaela couldn't do it. Instead, she ran out of the house and Joy attempted to run after her. Zach, however fully Cecilia's thrall, had no problem killing the old lady himself.

[Ben Kissel]

He wanted to kill. He was probably the most ready and most aggro to do it.

[Marcus Parks]

Very him and Marinda. Yeah. Going all out on his first murder, Zach stabbed Joy in the neck six times, then smashed her with a hammer a further 10 times.

[Ed Larson]

Travel agents, it's always.

[Ben Kissel]

It's always them.

[Marcus Parks]

His wife was the travel agent. He was even worse. Insurance broker. Oh.

[Ben Kissel]

He was already killing people with his policies and they had just left Florida.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, finally he took out another knife and slit Joy's throat. Joy was tough and managed to dial South Africa's emergency line, which is entirely too long. 10111.

[Ben Kissel]

It's too many letters. It's too many numbers.

[Marcus Parks]

And then Zach left the room. But it was too late for Joy. She died in the entrance of her bedroom, trying to crawl to the front door at that very moment, though, Natasha arrived and found the note that Michaela had slipped under her door. She quickly went next door to Joy's house, but it was Zach Valentine who answered the door. He grabbed her and pulled her inside. And while she did put up a struggle, Zach hit her in the head with a hammer before stabbing her in the neck, head and arms several times as she tried to defend herself. Finally, he slit her throat. And Natasha died with Joey's note still crumpled in her hand.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, this went as badly as it could have, essentially.

[Marcus Parks]

Actually, I think it went about as well as it could have.

[Ben Kissel]

I mean, in terms of like, it was all supposed to be like, well done and neat and quiet and subtle and.

[Ed Larson]

Well, how are they gonna. They brought a hammer and a knife. It's not like they were chlorified.

[Ben Kissel]

I see. That was. Again, it was wrong tools.

[Marcus Parks]

See, the thing is, I think that they wanted it to be.

[Ben Kissel]

To be this brutal.

[Marcus Parks]

I think they wanted it to be this brutal because I think it's sort of like Manson said, make it witchy.

[Ben Kissel]

Make it witchy.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, I could see that. Yeah. Because.

[Ben Kissel]

Because of what would go on. They would go on to think of what happened with these people.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Cuz remember, Cecilia has already planted the scene.

[Ben Kissel]

This is from the perspective of Satanists.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Natasha is going to. Natasha is in danger of being killed by Satanists.

[Ben Kissel]

So we have to kill them. Like Satanists would kill them.

[Marcus Parks]

Exactly.

[Ben Kissel]

Got it.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, the bodies were found almost immediately. While Zach was still running to his car, his wife Michaela was waiting. And Michaela, understandably upset by her blood covered husband, cried the whole way back to Krueger's door.

[Ben Kissel]

You mess up our seat. Getting blood on the dashboard. It was hard to clean.

[Ed Larson]

How was I supposed to know all that blood was gonna be in their bodies?

[Marcus Parks]

I don't know.

[Ben Kissel]

But now you smell like old pennies.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, I'm sorry. Next time when I cut someone's throat.

[Ben Kissel]

There won't be any blood. Are you sure? I wish you could promise that.

[Ed Larson]

We'll just have to talk to Sadie.

[Marcus Parks]

Cecilia was of course disappointed that Miquela didn't fulfill her part of the mission. But she still gathered together all the Electus Per Daeus members night to celebrate a job well done. They celebrated these murders and guess who they played.

[Ben Kissel]

It wasn't me.

[Marcus Parks]

The Overcomers, meanwhile, were left to process the news that one of their own had been brutally murdered. They all assumed it was a Satanist who done the job, partly because of the savagery with which Natasha was killed. But Partly because Cecilia had earlier told an overcomer that she'd had visions of Natasha being murdered by a Satanist. The overcomer that Cecilia had spoken to about all this was named Amber Dupree. But instead of suspecting Cecilia, the murder of Natasha Berger pulled Amber further into Electus per Dayus. And she brought along her boyfriend, James Vermac.

[Ed Larson]

And what, they just had to keep this whole thing a secret from her? Yeah, because everyone else in the group knows what they did.

[Marcus Parks]

There's a lot of moving parts here.

[Ben Kissel]

There a lot of stuff going on here, buddy. You got to forget, you know, this is on them.

[Marcus Parks]

And that's the thing, is that they can also, once they bring her in and she's, you know, suitably brainwashed, they can say, actually it was us that killed Natasha, but we killed Natasha for xyz. Yeah. For xyz.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, as far as the police went, they couldn't have gotten this murder more wrong and they couldn't have been more confused. They immediately believed that the murder was a satanic sacrifice.

[Ben Kissel]

Everybody gets what they want, okay?

[Marcus Parks]

But the know your enemy literature, found it in Natasha's apartment, led the police to believe that she was the occultist. So stupid as as far as Joy went, the nice old lady who invited them in for tea. The cops assumed that she was also an occultist because they found a bunch of half burned candles around her house. And from what their training told them, candles equal occult rituals.

[Ben Kissel]

Kind of be cool if, even if it's retconned, if your grandma turned out to be a super evil like Satan, like, you know, you go be like, whoa, Grandma was fucking metal. That's awesome. I didn't know she was like that.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, incredibly, because of the literature, the number one suspect in this murder was Rhea Grunwald.

[Ben Kissel]

That's the only good thing. That's the only good thing. I would have been awesome if they.

[Marcus Parks]

Arrested her because she was the know your enemy leader, you know, all the literature. She was in charge of all that. In fact, when Rhea contacted the police to help solve Natasha's murder, the police took that as further proof that she was guilty. Rhea was interrogated and was told that she was gonna be arrested.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, water border.

[Marcus Parks]

But this actually made Rhea believe Cecilia more because she remembered Cecilia telling her that the satanic church would murder people, then arrange for others to be accused.

[Ben Kissel]

How fucking stupid are we? Why are we so fucking dumb?

[Marcus Parks]

As far as Alexis Perdeus went, they sent even more taunting text messages to the overcomers saying that Natasha didn't die. Praying, but had begged and squealed like a pig. In the end, Ria had also.

[Ben Kissel]

Pigs can't beg. And we know that pigs can't beg. All right, because we see those youtubes.

[Marcus Parks]

Rhea was also told that she could have prevented all of this if she hadn't sent away the one person who could have helped that person was of course, Cecilia. As a consequence, Rhea canceled all know your enemy and overcomers through Christ meetings to try and protect her people. But once the first two murders were committed, it was off to the races for Cecilia and her crew. And nine more people would die before it was all over. And that's where we'll pick back up next week, starting with the murder of a priest for part three of the Krugersdorp cult murders.

[Ben Kissel]

Dude, we just are getting to the gnarly shit. It is going to be worse and worse as we go. It's going to get nuttier as we go. They don't get brighter. No Electus Per Dias also, it's just.

[Ed Larson]

Like there was a crazy murder. Don't split up. Everyone stay together. Now's the time to ban.

[Ben Kissel]

I think you're right.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you're right. But no, that's. That's what they decided to do.

[Ben Kissel]

But that's why you weren't an Electus Per Diattie. Cuz you weren't Electus per Dias material.

[Ed Larson]

I was talking about the Overcomers.

[Ben Kissel]

Either way.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. You're not an overcomer.

[Ben Kissel]

You're not a Jo.

[Ed Larson]

Regular comer.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, just a comer.

[Ed Larson]

Standard come.

[Marcus Parks]

That's. That's Ed. Just a cummer. That's what they say. It's Ed. Just a cummer. Larson.

[Ben Kissel]

To be honest, I'm. I'm a dribbler. We know this. I'm a dribbler.

[Marcus Parks]

Just a comer. Actually. Actually sounds like a South African last name. Like that's an Afrikaans name. Hello, my name is Gert. Just a comer.

[Ben Kissel]

That's true. Great joke.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you.

[Ben Kissel]

Really good work.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Ben Kissel]

Wow, we really got him this time, huh? Yeah, we got him on the ropes.

[Marcus Parks]

Patreon.com Last podcast on the left is where you can go to watch video editions of every single episode we record. You can also follow us on the socials at LP on the left. We're on Tick Tock and Instagram. Check out all of our streams at Twitch tv, LPN tv. If you want to watch it live, go to our YouTube channel if you want to watch it after the fact. And don't forget to go to Last Pack Podcast on the left dot com. Click on shows to see all the cities we're going to be coming to this year. Los Angeles, November 2nd.

[Ed Larson]

Big one, man. The Wilter. I can't wait for that show.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And I can't wait for King's Theater in Brooklyn coming home to do a big ass show. Cannot wait for that one.

[Ed Larson]

We're selling good. We just released some more tickets. Go and get them.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

These shows are gonna be great. We're very, very excited because we have been honing our abilities. I think we're better than ever, boys.

[Marcus Parks]

I think so too. And we're about to announce a lot more dates for next year. So keep an eye out for your city.

[Ed Larson]

When is next year?

[Marcus Parks]

January 1st.

[Ben Kissel]

It's a couple.

[Marcus Parks]

Couple months.

[Ben Kissel]

It's a couple of months. You'll know. You'll know because the gale will get cold. Then it gets warm again. Thank you, fuckers. And hail Satan, the real Satan. If we could.

[Marcus Parks]

And now, game.

[Ben Kissel]

Okay.

[Ed Larson]

Yonker Donker. Hail Yonker Dunker.

[Marcus Parks]

We know Yonker Donker was bad.

[Ben Kissel]

Bad guy.

[Ed Larson]

Great name.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

You're allowed just the sound. He's allowed to hail. Just the sounds of Yonker Dunker.

[Marcus Parks]

Sounds. Yonker Dunker. Yeah.