Episode 602: The Black Dahlia Murder Part III - Blood and Brown

Summary

Last Podcast on the Left – Episode 602: The Black Dahlia Murder Part III - Blood and Brown

Release Date: January 4, 2025
Host: The Last Podcast Network

---

Overview

In Episode 602 of The Last Podcast on the Left, the hosts delve deep into the infamous Black Dahlia murder case, uncovering new angles and revisiting long-standing theories. Titled "Blood and Brown," this episode focuses on the intricate web of suspects, evidential inconsistencies, and the pervasive corruption within the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) that may have hindered the investigation.

Recap of the Black Dahlia Murder

The podcast revisits the enigmatic murder of Elizabeth Short, famously known as the Black Dahlia. Short's brutal and gruesome death in 1947 remains one of Hollywood's most perplexing unsolved cases. The episode builds upon previous discussions, setting the stage for a deeper exploration of the suspects and circumstantial evidence.

Main Suspects: Leslie Dillon and Mark Hansen

Leslie Dillon

Leslie Dillon emerges as a central figure in this installment. A small-time crook with connections to Los Angeles' underworld, Dillon's interactions with Dr. Joseph Paul Deriver of the LAPD raise suspicions about his potential involvement in Short's murder.

• Quote [04:12]: "Welcome to Last Podcast on the Left, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with true detective Henry Zabrowski."
  - Marcus Parks

Dillon's alleged ties to the Gangster Squad and his suspicious behavior post-murder, including his correspondence with Dr. Deriver, position him as a compelling yet flawed candidate in the investigation.

Mark Hansen

Mark Hansen, a Danish nightclub owner with dubious connections, is introduced as another pivotal suspect. His strained relationship with Elizabeth Short, combined with his underworld affiliations, adds layers to the mystery.

• Quote [31:56]: "He had a bunch of curly soup on his head. I could tell when he was clumping around."
  - Henry Zebrowski

Hansen's involvement with the Astor Motel and his interactions with Short during her final days in Los Angeles are scrutinized, suggesting a possible motive rooted in obsession and possessiveness.

Astor Motel and Evidence

The Astor Motel becomes a focal point of the investigation, with multiple rooms exhibiting suspicious conditions on the morning of Short's body discovery.

• Quote [14:07]: "Hey, I don't suck dick, kid. This is where I wash my pussy."
  - Henry Zebrowski

Rooms three and nine are particularly highlighted for their blood stains and bundled clothes, respectively. The motel owner's delayed reporting and subsequent destruction of registration records further complicate the case, hinting at possible police or underworld interference.

LAPD Corruption and Investigation Flaws

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to exposing the deep-seated corruption within the LAPD during the time of the Black Dahlia investigation. The interplay between the Gangster Squad, organized crime, and law enforcement's compromised integrity suggests a deliberate obstruction in solving the case.

• Quote [56:35]: "But those records and they could have seen, it was like, okay, well, no, none of these people were here during this time."
  - Marcus Parks

The grand jury's interactions, witness testimonies, and the eventual handover of the case to less competent officers illustrate a systemic failure that likely perpetuated the mystery surrounding Short's death.

Grand Jury and Testimonies

Dr. Deriver's attempts to revive the investigation through a grand jury reveal the extent of the impasse caused by police corruption. Testimonies from key figures, including Henry and Clara Hoffman, as well as other witnesses, present conflicting accounts that muddy the waters further.

• Quote [75:35]: "I saw y'all you pieces of I. How many people were like, oh, they're willing to do three episodes?"
  - Henry Zebrowski

These testimonies shed light on the challenges faced in obtaining reliable information, with many witnesses either retracting statements or providing dubious accounts under pressure.

Alternative Theories and Unresolved Questions

The hosts explore various alternative theories, including the possibility of multiple perpetrators and the involvement of other unsolved murders in Los Angeles at the time. The inconsistencies in eyewitness accounts, such as differing descriptions of Short's hair color, add to the perplexity of the case.

• Quote [50:14]: "Yes. So whatever they did, they did expertly cut through the spine, but they did not expertly cut through the gastrointestinal system."
  - Henry Zebrowski

These unresolved questions emphasize the complexity of the Black Dahlia case and the myriad avenues that remain unexplored due to the loss or destruction of crucial evidence.

Conclusion and Ongoing Mysteries

The episode concludes by acknowledging the lingering ambiguities surrounding the Black Dahlia murder. Despite extensive discussions and theories, the truth remains elusive, underscored by the pervasive corruption that plagued the investigation.

• Quote [87:00]: "I think the reason why this story drives people insane is because it's like, it is just out of reach from modern day."
  - Marcus Parks

The hosts tease future episodes that promise to unveil more suspects and delve deeper into the tangled web of the Black Dahlia mystery, keeping listeners engaged and eager for more revelations.

---

Notable Quotes

• [04:11] Ed Larson: "So, in the end, this wasn't anywhere near enough."
• [23:08] Henry Zebrowski: "No one's been known to exaggerate anything."
• [54:37] Ed Larson: "Are we positive it was a D and not like a sloppy O?"

---

Final Thoughts

"Blood and Brown" serves as a gripping continuation of the Black Dahlia murder saga, blending meticulous research with the hosts' signature humor and candid discussions. By highlighting the interplay between suspects, evidence, and institutional corruption, the episode underscores why the Black Dahlia case continues to fascinate and baffle true crime enthusiasts decades later.

For those yet to listen, this episode offers a comprehensive deep dive into one of Hollywood's most enduring mysteries, providing both insight and intrigue into the unresolved case of Elizabeth Short.

Transcript

[Henry Zebrowski]

Prepare for the crime and investigation event of the new year with the premiere of two groundbreaking new series on ae. Each week hit the streets of the Big Easy with a dedicated team of detectives as they search for answers and justice in the gripping new series Homicide New Orleans. Then join an elite Mexican task force in their pursuit of American fugitives hiding south of the border in Fugitive Hunters Mexico Homicide Squad New Orleans. New episode Thursdays at 9 followed by a new Fugitive Hunters Mexico at 10. Parts of a crime and investigation event only on A and E Watch now on the A and E app when.

[Marcus Parks]

Living with cancer, it's important to be.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Informed and know what to expect.

[Marcus Parks]

But finding the right information can feel overwhelming. That's why understandcancertogether.com is here to help. We've gathered practical information and resources based on where you are in your cancer journey so that you can focus on.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The important conversations and decisions of today.

[Ed Larson]

UnderstandCancerTogether.com helping you navigate life with cancer.

[Henry Zebrowski]

One Moment at a time do you want to listen to Last Podcast on the Left without ads? Do you want extra content? Do you want to see what it's like behind the scenes? Patreon.com lastpodcast on the left.

[Marcus Parks]

There'S no.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Place to escape to.

[Ed Larson]

This is the last podcast on the left.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? I'm coming in hot this week. I solved the murder by myself in my office over the break. I know everything that's happened. I know everything that will happen just in time. But honestly, the key is now I'm deleting it, so I'm gonna forget the man I was. I was a private detective for about eight days, okay? Because I had nothing but time. I had nothing but weed. Baldur's Gate. You were following people I know. Elizabeth Short.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Do you know Deborah Tall? But no, this is the oh, man, I'm dragging Marcus down. Fucking with me, man. Yes, I'm dragging his fucking ass. I mean, he's dragging me fucking hole with me, bro.

[Marcus Parks]

He keeps saying it so much that he thinks it's going to come true one day.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm bringing him down with me, man. I'm making him worse.

[Ed Larson]

So it doesn't matter what your theory is, because even if you're right, it's all the evidence has been destroyed and there's no way to prove it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Some of it might be hidden.

[Marcus Parks]

Welcome to Last Podcast on the Left, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with true detective Henry Zabrowski.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah yeah. Time to flat circle. Give me six beers. Honestly, that's how I should have started the show. With a six pack. Like Matthew McConaughey when he's in the interrogation room and just keep opening up and then cutting them into little men. You know, like cutting the little man.

[Marcus Parks]

In half and the equally inquisitive Ed Larson.

[Ed Larson]

I'm curious, but at the end of the day, I don't care.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Eddie. You should care. You know why? Because if I was a highly artistic motivated, full of himself serial killer, and I mean this with all love because of how much I love you and how close we are, the fun of playing with your guts and how thick and meaty would be to like. Cause that's the thing serial killers, they always do with these skinny minis where it's just like the idea of coming at you, like how much fun playing with your tits.

[Ed Larson]

I'd be easy to drug and poison, too.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You just take anything?

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, I love to eat and drink.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Especially if you meet him at a concert.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, my God. Yeah. You can put it on the weed that you give me.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Dude, just fucking. The idea of playing with your big fat cheeks and playing with your cut off body parts.

[Ed Larson]

It does take a lot to take me down, though. Yeah, yeah, I know. You need an elephant gun, man. That's. I'm ready.

[Marcus Parks]

That is true.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I still feel like I could hit you with a cast iron.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, I know. Maybe. But at the same time, I could take more than one hit and usually I'll fall on top of you. That's the problem. When I fight, I fall on top of you and then I just smother your head into the ground a bunch of times till it becomes spaghetti.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, wow.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, here we are at Black Dahlia Part 3. Now, to recap our story thus far, let's start with the main suspect in the case, Leslie Dillon, and the reasons why he makes it compelling, if admittedly flawed candidate in the murder of Elizabeth Short.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Interesting hesitation for Marcus Parks.

[Ed Larson]

You said that the crime was solved.

[Henry Zebrowski]

At the beginning of the very series Marcus.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, that is true. And I shall address that statement later on in this episode.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Bringing him down with me to the bottom of the well.

[Marcus Parks]

He didn't do anything. I came upon the conclusion by myself.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm bringing him down with me. I said him stuff. He read it, we talked about it. No, you're wrong.

[Marcus Parks]

All right, well, you know, Leslie Dillon, Leslie Dillon, 25 years old when the murder took place, was a small time crook who was suspected to have worked with the same underworld Figures in Los Angeles that Elizabeth Short was associating with in the months before her murder. Two years after Elizabeth was killed, Leslie Dillon wrote to Dr. Joseph Paul Deriver of the LAPD under the pseudonym Jack sand, responding to an article Dr. Deriver had planted about the Black Dahlia murder in True Detective magazine. Dylan later said that the only reason why he contacted Dr. Deriver was because he had an interest in true crime and wanted to get into the business and had expressed in his letter a desire to collaborate with Dr. Deriver in writing a book about psychopathic cases like the Black Dahlia murder.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And also, there was some lying on Dr. Deriver's part where he then, in order getting the job done, which is.

[Ed Larson]

You know, Eddie, sometimes you gotta lie a little bit.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I have truly no problems with Dr. Deriva's ideas. I had no problem if I was allowed, if I was an unofficial fake doctor that arrived at the police and convinced the gangster scribes.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you. If I arrived and I was. I was this, you know, this forensics guy. I'm just making shit up as I go. This is exactly how we would do this. It is.

[Ed Larson]

You know, the worst part is the guy who has the most information is the one who's filled with the most shit.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's. How often have we talked about this. Aleister Crowley, Madame Blavatsky, lrh. Yeah, but there is truth in there.

[Marcus Parks]

Except in lrh. But in the other two, yeah, there is a little like, this is a.

[Ed Larson]

Boat, and it was a boat.

[Marcus Parks]

It's true.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Later on. And Dr. Deriver, what he did was he lied to Leslie Dillon. And the way he got him on the hook was saying, how about I offer you a job as my assistant?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, there was many unconstitutional, unethical things going on when it came to Dr. Deriver and Leslie Dillon. And Dr. Driver soon became convinced that Leslie Dillon was himself the Black Dalia Killer. So he and the other investigative body helping out with the case, the Gangster Squad, they lure Dylan out west, where they unconstitutionally detained and interrogated him during six weeks of, let's say, extra legal interviews.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I like this term. I like extra legal.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, they have. Did he have teeth when they were done with them?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, he did. But he definitely had a couple of burn marks from the radiator. And they also. They took him on road trips around Southern California to various Black Dahlia sites. What do you think?

[Henry Zebrowski]

What do you think of seven this going over here, huh? How about this? Look, that's literally all they did. They just drove him in front of The Aster Motel. We're like, eh, yeah, they, they drove.

[Marcus Parks]

Him to the Black Dahlia murder site. And just like, he looks a little.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Ill. Are you confused now when you.

[Ed Larson]

Say the Black Dahlia murder site, are you saying the Aster Hotel, the dump site?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you. Eddie's learning.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you're learning. Because the Aster Motel had not been discovered just yet. But they also took him to places in San Francisco where Dylan had worked as a bellhop during the time of the murder. And by the end of it, the men represent the LAPD discovered some interesting details about Leslie Dillon. Dylan had the same soft, modulated voice used when the Black Dahlia killer called the Los Angeles Examiner. He had experience draining bodies of blood from working as a mortuary assistant. And he knew methods of mutilation concerning Short's corpse that were not public at the time. When they were forced to arrest Dylan after the press discovered they were holding him, authorities searched the suitcase he had brought with him on the trip and discovered even more evidence that pointed towards his possible involvement.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Even if it didn't, you'd say, hey, I don't know if it necessarily points towards his involvement as much as it points towards this guy's a fudgeing weirdo.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Which is kind of what they were looking for. Which, which is, you know, it's a flawed way to look for a candidate because you can't just say, oh, you're fudgeing weird. You got a long Frankenstein looking head like, you must be the Black Dahlia killer. You asked to be involved in this investigation. When they don't realize, like, at the time. Now we know. Now we definitely know that all of these types of cases involve many different hoaxers and con artists that want to get up involved with something, anything that will give them attention.

[Ed Larson]

And plus, he always wanted to make a Russian nesting doll out of a person.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And we all do. And the hardest part is the littlest one because you got to get a hold of a preemie. And it's hard because you ever take one right out of the oven.

[Ed Larson]

That's why the doctors wear gloves.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, contained within Leslie Dillon's suitc case were 700 phenobarbital pills and a well worn leather dog leash that appeared as if it had been used to hang something that was comparable in weight to a human body.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It was three rottweilers.

[Ed Larson]

There is so much phenobarbital at my house right now. It always freaks me out when you bring this up.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, because of the dog.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My dog loves Phenobarbital. And she, you know, she could use more sleep. She's always waking me up in the middle of the night, so maybe I should start jamming more down her throat. That's what I'm learning.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's Tootsie, actually. It was really sweet of her. She offered me a bump the other night, and I was just like, no, I'm sorry. I'm driving. I can't.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, investigating Dylan further, they also found that his aunt lived two blocks from the diner where Elizabeth Short's purse and shoes were found, and that Dylan drove a black sedan like the one seen twice at the dump site in the wee hours of the morn just before Short's body was discovered.

[Ed Larson]

Wrap it up. Yeah, that seems like a case closed.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You would be wrong, my friend.

[Marcus Parks]

There was also the fact that the letter D had been carved into Elizabeth's flesh, and Dylan was the type of person to obsessively leave his initials wherever he went.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Again, just a fucking weirdo. Yes, this is just a weirdo. The idea of drawing. I draw my initials on things because I'm asked to for legal documents.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, yeah. Keep it on the ld.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. No one found out. Nope.

[Marcus Parks]

His interactions with Dr. Deriver, reaching out after the article and such, they suggested that he also had narcissistic and exo. Exhibitionist tendencies, which spoke to the highly theatrical way in which the Black Dahlia's body was displayed.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is all in the pro Leslie Dylan did it category.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. After Dylan was arrested, however, he denied knowing or even meeting Elizabeth Short, and the LAPD backed away from him completely, soon after saying that they had discovered, after further investigation, that he was actually in San Francisco at the time of the murder. He was subsequently released without being charged.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And then he'd go on to sue.

[Marcus Parks]

The LAPD for $100,000, as he should, until the LAPD said, hey, we kind of have evidence of you robbing a safe in Santa Monica, so unless you want to go to jail for that, drop the case. And he dropped the case.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Let's just call bygone. Bygone.

[Ed Larson]

So he got away with that?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, he got away with it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Another bellhop cry.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, all of this is admittedly thin, and if this was all we had, then I would agree with you if you said that Leslie Dylan was a man tangentially connected to the case, who took Dr. Deriver and the Gangster Squad for a. But after Dylan was arrested and released, the Gangster Squad discovered the Aster Motel.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now, this is another fun. Which is now what I've learned about the Black Dahlia upon deep into my investigation, you know, hours upon hours, putting an OT when you discover is that every single big point in Black Dahlia is an awesome and complicated point of contention.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And that there is somebody had just written something that it's completely debunked. Every single thing that you say. No matter what you say. No matter what you say. It's almost like there is no reality at the very center of this case. So the Astor Motel is the next big moment that you're like, what the fuck is this? What is happening here?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Now, around the time that Leslie Dylan was arrested, his mother gave an interview to the Los Angeles examiner in which she gave as much information as she could about her son in an effort to exonerate him. Look at how good of a boy my boy Leslie is.

[Ed Larson]

They always end up saying something wrong.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They're being like, he never did anything unless you pushed him easily.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And he was never prone to violence unless he was inside.

[Ed Larson]

You're gonna slip up, Mom. No, no, no.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Like, you only stabbed the chicken in front of us once and it was.

[Marcus Parks]

God damn it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Again with the chicken. Every time. Every time we get together, you always.

[Marcus Parks]

Got to bring up the story. The chicken, Mom.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You cut its tits off and you stuffed it up the cavity.

[Ed Larson]

Chicken breasts. Chicken breasts are a common meal.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Just Leslie's innocent. He's a good boy no matter what he does to anyone.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, as we all know, the more you talk, the more trouble you're likely to get. And Dylan's mother mentioned that when he lived in la, he sometimes stayed at a place called the Aster Motel, which was just a 15 minute drive from the vacant lot in Leimert park where Elizabeth Short's body was found. Now, the Astor Motel was a ground level strip of 10 concrete cabins.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Was gross.

[Marcus Parks]

Very thick walls. It's still there, by the way. Now called the New Astor Motel. Well, the Astor back then had a reputation not necessarily for where sex workers did their business, but for a place where sex workers live.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hey, I don't suck dick, kid. This is where I wash my pussy.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

You don't come to my house and get your dick sucked a shittier hotel.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Honestly, we come here to pray.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, the Aster was owned by a syphilitic example ex con named Henry Hoffman, who done time for mail fraud involving an oil scam in Texas.

[Ed Larson]

When you say syphilitic, that means he had syphilis.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Okay, cool. I just wanted to make sure.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, syphilitic like, it's like. You know how syphilis took like 20 years to take Al Capone down? Yeah. It's kind of like this at this point. Henry hoffman was about 60 years old and, you know, the syphilis hadn't took his brain, but, you know, there was some floating around there.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The doctor said, I'm turning into a snack of. You want to stay in there? You want to stay in the master suite? You're going to have to sit in my lap while I go to sleep.

[Ed Larson]

You know, you're not a great man when 100 years later you're remembered by that adjective.

[Marcus Parks]

The syphilitic.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Put it on my gravestone. I was horny to death.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, he'd been in trouble with the law on a domestic violence charge just weeks before the Black Dahlia murder. This colorful past, Hoffman and his wife said, was why they didn't report what they found in cabin number three of the Aster on the very morning that Elizabeth Short's body was found 15 minutes away.

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Motel owner Henry Hoffman said that when he opened the door to cabin number three that morning, he found a room covered in feces and blood.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Not feces.

[Marcus Parks]

Feces.

[Ed Larson]

That seems like something. That seems like evidence.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Dirty feces.

[Marcus Parks]

Soaked dirty faces.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Brown, brown everywhere.

[Marcus Parks]

Soaked the bed sheets and blankets. It was smeared on the bathroom walls. It was fucking everywhere. And after cleaning the room from top to bottom, again, again, again not reporting it because Henry Hoffman had just been arrested. The Astor Motel sent out what laundry they could salvage and they burned the rest.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And it is documented that just after January 15, the AS did indeed have a large laundry bill, the only large bill in its history.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I just gotta confess. It's the only time we've ever done it. It was. It's true. We waited until the 10 year anniversary and then next thing I know, it's not. That's not the only place that had brown. Number three had brown. Number nine. Had brown. Number 12 had yellow.

[Ed Larson]

You know what? We're gonna wash the sheets this year. That's why that's such a big bill.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Everybody gather around. It was like. It was a fun Los Angeles ritual.

[Ed Larson]

So I think that's how, like, you got to start looking at the laundromats and the. And these. And the dry cleaners.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that's.

[Ed Larson]

Who knows, because it's. You want me to cover up this murder?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now he's thinking like a. Yeah, exactly. Super complicated. Make things. Makes things harder than they need to be.

[Marcus Parks]

But cabin number three was not the only room at the Astra that was in suspicious condition. On January 15, the motel owner's wife, Clara Hoffman, found a pile of clothes neatly tied in a bundle on the bed in cabin number nine.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mostly consider myself a roommate to my husband. Syphilis, that's me. It's just kind of. I kind of share him with the syphilis.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, the clothes were wrapped in brown paper and a cord as if the entire intention was to mail them. Much like Elizabeth's documents were mailed to the Los Angeles Examiner. Inside the package was a woman's skirt, a blouse, and a pair of men's shorts with blood spatter on them.

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Motel owner Henry Hoffman said that he told his wife to burn the clothes along with the blood soaked towels and linens in the incinerator out back. And just after they scrubbed down what may have been the Black Dahlia murder kill room before the story even broke.

[Ed Larson]

See? But who kills somebody in shorts in January?

[Henry Zebrowski]

That is my biggest issue with this whole thing.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh my God, it's January in Los Angeles. I see shorts every single fucking day here. I think Rob's wearing shorts. No, he's not. No, he's got pants.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's for the delusional. It is for the delusional. Like there is like, you know.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, my friend Adam Wirtz does it. He wears shorts every single day, no matter what.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He's from Wisconsin, but I know he's cold. He's lying to everyone.

[Ed Larson]

Always got his feet out.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know he's cold. I know cold Wisconsinites. You. I know a lot of you like that. You wear shorty degrees.

[Ed Larson]

Washing a car like you're some kind of hero.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know you're cold. You're lying to yourself. You're lying to us.

[Marcus Parks]

Now it's important to note that the Hoffman's only owned the Astor Motel for six months. And these interviews were done two years after the murder. Two years in which none of these people said anything to anyone about what they'd seen on January 15th.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know when. Do you want me to jump in? Do you want to wait to the end? Yeah. Before I start.

[Marcus Parks]

Don't. Don't just pick it apart piece by piece. That's not fun.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm not going to do this to us, Marcus. I just. I'm sitting here because this is.

[Ed Larson]

It is great. So you're gonna be silent. That's amazing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Studious.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm really excited about it. You know, not get interrupted. Just be able to go through the narrative. Co host of the show meant to be written.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I. I think what's most important in an audio media is to reflect. And I sit and I listen and I'm just, I'm holding space for whatever it is that you do.

[Marcus Parks]

Sure, sure.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But actually let me interrupt you there. It's just fun. It's a fun battle.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, this gap in the interviews between the interviews and the actual murder itself, that's why I think the interview of the maid is so interesting. When the gangster squad tracked her down, she was a person who had no further connections to the Hoffmans.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She said, you want extra pill kind.

[Marcus Parks]

Of hotel is this?

[Henry Zebrowski]

It doesn't ever end.

[Marcus Parks]

But she also remembered the bloody room and the bundle of clothes quite well. The clothes she said were a white blouse with ruffles and a black skirt which was the same outfit Elizabeth Short had been wearing the last time she'd been seen alive at the Biltmore Hotel. Eventually that same maid admitted that she'd seen a person that she thought was Elizabeth Short at the motel during the so called missing week before Short's body body was dumped. And she wasn't the only one. A man who lived across the street also said that he saw a woman who looked like Elizabeth Short at Astor that same week. According to him and other witnesses, this girl seemed trapped, possibly drugged and desperate to escape. But the problem admittedly is that all these people described a black haired girl. And as we know, Short's hair was dyed a reddish light brown when her body was found.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And part of the reason why they said a black haired girl is because the pictures of Elizabeth Short through in the newspaper they had black hair which shows that they probably didn't see her because they saw the old picture of her. And then now they're thinking about the old picture of her. When they think about Elizabeth Short and now they are conject, they're blowing that out to think about every diminutive bow lipped black haired girl.

[Ed Larson]

Though also escorts are known to wear wigs. They are work.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

You know, so they don't like, so they don't get found out when they're out being a normal person.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You're correct.

[Ed Larson]

She could have been wearing a wig whenever they saw her.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't believe Elizabeth Short was an escort.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She was not.

[Marcus Parks]

No.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She was not a call girl.

[Marcus Parks]

We'll get to the sex worker angle.

[Ed Larson]

Escort, not a sex worker. They just enjoy a good time with it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So that's what we did with together in Nosferatu. Yeah. I was your escort. Oh, I was just some prostitute enjoying popcorn with you.

[Ed Larson]

No, you were, you were. I Would like to be seen with you. And I paid you for it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you. And honestly, just go to henry browski.com, have me escort you to your own. Like, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm ready. I can escort a lot.

[Ed Larson]

Short. Furatu.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I mean, it might be that these people misremembered Short's hair color because like you said, all the pictures they saw of her over and over again showed a young woman with black hair. Or it could be that they were remembering somebody else entirely. But either way, these people were sure that the person they saw at the Asta that week was Elizabeth Short. What we do know for sure though, is that the bloody room did exist. Yes, Clara Hoffman's brother in law, who also lived at the motel at the same time, confirmed that the blankets in cabin number three were soaked in so much blood that it looked like someone had taken gallons of red paint and poured it over the bed. This brother in law had also worked at a mortuary in the past and said that the amount of blood he saw in that room was just about equivalent to the total amount of fluid in a human body. Okay, lest we forget, Elizabeth Short's corpse was found completely drained of blood.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No one's been known to exaggerate anything.

[Ed Larson]

I mean, it's a shitload of blood.

[Marcus Parks]

It's a lot of blood.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's a lot a. Well, we'll wait.

[Ed Larson]

Well, I mean, whether you.

[Marcus Parks]

Are you just going to sit and snipe this whole time with these like shitty comments? No.

[Ed Larson]

When you think it's him doesn't mean that she wasn't killed in that room by a different person.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I don't know.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, someone was killed in the room. Unless someone had a hell of a period.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, it's funny, they do believe that the blood was not as spread all over the bed and it was period.

[Ed Larson]

Really?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Who is they?

[Henry Zebrowski]

The police.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, the police. Oh, the.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We're going to get to the grand jury. We're going to get to the grand jury.

[Ed Larson]

But the police never saw the room.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We're going to get there.

[Marcus Parks]

Lastly, Henry and Clara Hoffman's daughter was interviewed by author Pew Eatwell years later. And she distinctly remembered the bloody room incident as well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I've made a few bloody rooms myself.

[Ed Larson]

Yes, because my name is Pew.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Pew.

[Marcus Parks]

Pew. Pew. So unless another woman was brutally murdered and drained of her blood the same night as Elizabeth Short, just 15 minutes from Short's Dr. Dump site, which is entirely possible because LA was a up place at this time.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh yeah, dude, we didn't talk about the werewolf murders. We didn't talk about all the kind of other stuff. There was a bunch of unsolved lady murders that happened during, like, though everyone's.

[Ed Larson]

Like 15 minutes from here, 20 minutes from there. It's traffic. It's great back then.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It really was, dude. I think it's just the coverage that black a freeway.

[Marcus Parks]

And that's the thing that we actually looked at. Like, I mean, this was 1947. Are we sure a tune didn't do this?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know, because it's so funny because they're like. Like, you look at how she got all around. She went from downtown to the Valley to Hollywood. I was like, how the could she even get there? She didn't have a car.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, well, they had the red car.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

My God. It'll be beautiful.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It'll be beautiful.

[Marcus Parks]

But I think at the end of the day, it's likely that this was the room where Elizabeth Short was killed. Now motel owner Henry Hopit. God damn it, stop doing that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I did nothing. I said rise from your grave.

[Ed Larson]

If there's a sure fire way to wake up feeling fresh after a night of drinking, it's with pre alcohol zbiotics. Pre alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into toxic byproduct in the gut. It's this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for your rough next day. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. I did this on New Year's. Oh my gosh. Forever new New Year's tradition. Get your ZBiotics around. I don't know. When do you start drinking? 2:00pm get your SP. Get your ZBiotics around 2:00pm and then the next day when you wake up around 9pm, you're gonna feel great. Go to ZBiotics.com last to learn more and get 15% off your first order. When you use last at checkout, ZBiotics is backed by 100% money back guarantee. So if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com last and use the code last at checkout for 15% off.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. You make a website, you use the website succeed. Thanks Squarespace. Now that I found the little boy that now is running the horse picks empire, I am angry with the way that he is handling it. A lot of these horses honestly it's subpar and a lot of it's pretty lazy. The current J.D. vance horse that they just put a beard on is honestly as far as I'm concerned, extremely, extremely offensive to me as a person with a former bearded face. So now that's why I have started my own new website thanks to squarespace space destroy horsepix.com because the goal is to go after this rogue child that took my dream and perverted it and ha. And the only entity that can help me in my search for revenge against this one childlike entrepreneur, Squarespace. Check out squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're Ready to launch Squarespace.com left to save 10% off your first purchase of a website, site or domain. I'm coming for you Charlie Bucket. Get a head start on your financial goals for the new year with the help of Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile lets you maximize your savings with plans starting at $15 a month when you purchase a three month plan. All Mint Mobile plans include high speed data, unlimited talk and text on the largest 5G network and you can keep your phone and number. I love the amount of money that I've saved for Mint Mobile so much it has allowed me to purchase my own Boston Dynamic protection dog. I've outfitted with a cute rifle's head with little ears on it and he barks going stop police. Stop police. Stop police. He's so cute. And we went and we got his DNA done and it turns out he's 100% killer robot. Which is honestly I would not have had that money to do the testing if I didn't save so much money with Mint Mobile. To get this new customer offer on your new 3 month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month month go to mintmobile.com lpotl that's mintmobile.com lpotl cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com lpotl $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first 3 month plan only speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details.

[Marcus Parks]

Now Motel owner Henry Hoffman said he also encountered the Black Dahlia, but it took months for him to come clean. Although he had a good reason for keep keeping it Quiet.

[Henry Zebrowski]

When I saw her, she was already into, but it was crazy because the top half was kissing me.

[Marcus Parks]

He finally admitted to a gangster squad member after months of establishing a rapport, that the woman he believed was Elizabeth Short was at the Astor Motel for two days, although she could have been there longer in another room without his knowledge. Hoffman said that Short was in cabin number nine.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Number nine? Number nine.

[Marcus Parks]

That was the cabin where the clothes matching the description of Elizabeth's last outfit had been found bundled. And on January 9th and 10th, Hoffman had seen her numerous times. One time, he said, he came into the room and she was naked under a bedsheet, appearing as if she had been drugged with something like, say, I don't know, phenobarbital pills.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You sick or you flirt with me? You sick? You seem cold, you lady.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Hoffman had run his fingers through Short's hair and tried taking advantage of her. But even in her drugged state, she refused and he left without further incident.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No one will ever love me. Why do they gotta sleep for me to kiss? Why can I get a live one? Except that one sick girl made me sick, gave me this lover's disease. Well, time to go pile laundry for the next year.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, this, Hoffman knew, was creep behavior. He believed that the cops would think that he was the killer if he told him about this incident, which is why it took him months to admit. Admit it. Hoffman's most valuable contribution to the case, however, concerned who else was at the Astor Motel during Elizabeth Short, so called missing week. Hoffman said that a, quote, fellow from Batavia stayed at the motel for four or five days at the same time that Elizabeth Short had stayed there. Now, there are a number of cities called Batavia, many of which are here in America.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It must have been something different because he had wooden shoes. I could tell when he was clumping around. First I thought he was one of those live huge nutcrackers. And my wife told me again and again those are not real.

[Marcus Parks]

But when it comes to the Astor Motels man from Batavia, it's most likely that Henry Hoffman was talking about the Batavia in Indonesia, which has been called Jakarta since the Indonesians won their independence from the Dutch after World War II. So the man we're talking about here would most likely be Dutch or something similar. And while we don't have a Dutchman in our story, we certainly have a Dane. After Henry Hoffman gave a physical description of the man from Batavia, it matched who else but Danish nightclub owner Mark Hansen?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, he says it does. This all came out after the fact, though, and we all know that he's a shady ass dude Everybody's shade well, they gave everybody in the circle is shaped.

[Marcus Parks]

Henry Hoffman was not shown a picture of Mark Hansen and said, this is this. Is this the guy? Henry Hoffman gave a description of the man from Batavia, and it matched Mark Hansen.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He had a bunch of curly soup on his head. I think it's called hair. Oh, yeah, he definitely had his shirt on. Who am I? My nose is falling off. Ah, my lips.

[Marcus Parks]

Larry kept Mark Hansen. His legitimate business was running and owning a chain of movie theaters. But he also ran a club called the Florentine Gardens, which was a known mob operation that had connections to corruption, corrupt LAPD officers. For example, LAPD homicide detective Finis Brown was said by numerous people to have worked as a bag man for Mark Hansen's operation. And it was said that Finnis Brown was in deep debt to Mark Hansen at the time of the Black Dahlia murder. Finnis Brown, if you remember, was also the homicide detective in charge of investigating the Black Dahlia murder. And it's speculated that Finis Brown drove the investigation away from Mark Hansen. Hansen anytime. The clues led in that direction as a way to repay his debt. As far as why the investigation pointed towards Hansen in the first place, an address book with his name printed on the COVID showed up at the offices of a Los Angeles examiner, along with a trove of Short's personal documents. Things that could have only come from someone who was with Elizabeth in the last hours or days of her life. Elizabeth Short also lived at Mark Hanson's house for a period of time just before her murder. And the two of them had a strained relationship rife with jealousy that ended in a nasty fight. Soon after, Elizabeth fled to San Diego by bus and was found sleeping in the Aztec Theater by the kindly Dorothy French. For the short time that Elizabeth stayed with Dorothy French, a number of people came by to try and speak with Elizabeth. Although we have no idea who these people were or why they wanted to speak with her. All we know is that the visits caused Elizabeth a lot of anxiety. Then, on January 9, 1947, Elizabeth Short returned to Los Angeles and was dropped off at the Biltmore Hotel. Over a period of hours, she made a number of calls, the last of which was to who else but Mark Hansen? Elizabeth then left, and no one knew where she went until motel owner Henry Hoffman came forward. But that's only if you believe Henry Hoffman. His wife, her sister, their brother in law, the maid, and several other people.

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hey, this is.

[Ed Larson]

Why do you love Mark Hansen so much. What did he do for you?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, he finally gave me a shot at being the number one girl at this wonderful place. Have you been to the Mayonnaise Balcony? He said that I could sing any song I want. So the first song I sang was. Was, hey, get me some beer or I'm going to on the floor. And then I got fired.

[Ed Larson]

12 minutes long.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It is, it is. So I got fired. So I'll always thank him for giving me my shot.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, Henry Hoffman wasn't the only person to put Mark Hansen at the Astor Motel that week. The man who commented that there was enough blood in cabin number three to fill a human body also identified Hansen as being at the motel during that week.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I see buckets of blood every day. I know what buckets of blood look like. I see them every day. I have them in my home. I have them in my car.

[Ed Larson]

I just have cups of blood.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's because you're a pussy. You're not a real man like me. I'm a doctor. I look at blood. I look at blood. I read blood. I know blood.

[Ed Larson]

Can I work for you?

[Henry Zebrowski]

First of all, let's take a look at that blood.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, his wife also put Mark Hanson at the hotel that week. The man they identified as Mark Hanson, by the way, stayed at the Astor Motel in room number eight. The room right next to the one where the clothes were found bundled and where Henry Hoffman said that he saw Elizabeth Shop Short naked and drugged. But Mark Hansen did not kill Elizabeth Short. The most likely suspect for that was Leslie Dylan. And he had connections to the Astor Motel as well. The registration record showed that Dylan stayed there definitively In April of 1947, four months after the Black Dahlia murder. After this, to me, makes a lot of sense that Dylan would return to the Astro to relive the memory. Because it's proven that process killers, the ones who were there for the brutality of the murder itself, they sometimes return to the scene of the crime for this express purpose.

[Ed Larson]

Also, the room was on discount for all the blood. And that's the key.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Like, I know I got one place that'll fit my budget.

[Marcus Parks]

Unfortunately, mysteriously and suspiciously, though, Henry Hoffman's wife had burned all the registration records that may have shown exactly who stayed at the Aster Motel in January of 1947. No one knows why she burned them, but she burned him. Obviously, she was trying to hide something. Probably had nothing to do with this. No, but it was a shady fucking place.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It was already a shady place because that was the thing. It's where to be honest, in a way it sounds actually in a sort of in a madam style way that Clara Hoffman was looking after some of the sex workers that were living in there and that she was burning that as burned the evidence that they were there, which is because they were constantly going after. There was so many different vice things they were constantly looking up, which is still like the heart of the corruption of the lapd. I think a lot of it was getting into racketeering and sex work, human trafficking.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And that's. So they were actually maybe kind of helping that that way.

[Marcus Parks]

And if that's true, then that means that the corruption of the Los Angeles Police Department once again cut off a possible end to this line of questioning very much. But that's the thing is if there was, you know, those records and they could have seen, it was like, okay, well, no, none of these people were here during this time. None of these people use these aliases. But no, we don't have that. And now at last, we come to what may have happened to Elizabeth Schmidt Short and how all of these people come together. Now, I will admit that I did get a little ahead of myself when it came to fingering Leslie Dylan as definitely the guy, without question. Stop pointing to me like you're a child.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's the closest we ever got. Yeah, it's the closest.

[Ed Larson]

I just can't believe Marcus fingered him.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, his name was Leslie. And when you're already there, by the time you get there, if you're not gonna finger him, you're filled with hate. So you might as well do it because you don't want to be a homophobe. Like, if he brings you there, I want to make sure I can feel again. Creating space. Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, in the jumble of names, dates and places that I was swimming in during our preliminary research, I thought that I had read that Leslie Dylan had definitely worked for Mark Hansen as a pimp in Los Angeles. To me, this tied it all together in a neat little package. That claim, however, was just speculation on the part of Dr. Joseph Paul Deriver. See, Leslie Dylan had been arrested for pimping in San Francisco. And while he did work as a bellhop and a pimp in the same territory as Mark Hansen's operation, there is no, no definitive link between the two men. The closest we come to a connection was through Jeff Connors.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Jeff, you did it again.

[Marcus Parks]

Jeff. The 40 year old busboy, pulp fiction writer and failed actor turned cosmetic salesman who had the misfortune of being the stand in for Leslie Dillon. When Leslie talked about the Black Dahlia murder to the gangster squad and nothing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Says full grown adult like a tiny hat. It's like these bell hat. These bell hops, man. Yeah, these guys are corrupt as. Oh God, they're little like I thought. I don't know why. Again, we talked about this before how Leslie Dylan is Rob Schneider for Home Alone too. But yeah, they all are. Yeah. Every one of these bellhops are like a little. It's like a criminal syndicate.

[Ed Larson]

They always. They always lingering, always taking down mental notes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They know everything. They know where you sleep.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They know where you're.

[Ed Larson]

They know what your bags look like.

[Marcus Parks]

No, I read an article about how like bellhops were really big into blackmail. Like back in the day. Like they were really big. Like it was blackmail and pimping. Those are the two. And theft. Of course.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Ladies, don't let yourself get pimped by a bellhop.

[Ed Larson]

No, no, no, no.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, Jeff Connors wasn't the Black Dahlia killer, but he was friends with Leslie Dylan. The connection here is that after Jeff divorced from his wife, she went to live with Mark Hansen. And Leslie Dylan had gone to Jeff's ex wife's door after he was released by the LAPD to tell her that she better keep her mouth shut about what she knew.

[Ed Larson]

There's no way that Leslie Dylan and Mark Hansen did not know and work together. There are two p. Are working out of the same building.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But pimp is a word that is like. It is a spectrum. So there's a spectrum. There's like, there are people that have taken money, right. For like there's a low level ver. It's kind of like with talking with human trafficking. All human trafficking is not a bunch of Indonesian women in a U haul being trucked across state lines. Like human trafficking is as simple as buying a lady that is underage a plane ticket to come to you to have sex. Right. So pimping has also got a spectrum.

[Ed Larson]

So they're on some level has territories as well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But you're talking about Eddie, you're talking about high level. Again, this is high level. These are not professional pimps. These are people that have taken money very casually from sex workers at the time that they have set up. They've brokered little things for them. But these are nowhere near professional pimps. Leslie Dylan and Mark. Mark Hansen, he's an l. A pimp. Which is a casting director.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And so like that's what he was.

[Ed Larson]

He was a he, but so was Dylan. Even though he was in San Francisco. He was also in la.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He was light pimp. He was more so a across the spectrum small time criminal.

[Ed Larson]

If you're at a 10 room hotel and there are two pimps, they know each other well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's the reason why it's probable that Mark Hansen wasn't there and it's probable that Leslie Dylan isn't as big of a pimp as they made him out to be.

[Marcus Parks]

Now what Jeff Connor's ex wife knew we have no idea. But I do still believe that there is a compelling story to be told when it comes to these two men and Elizabeth's Short. See, Mark Hansen had become obsessive and possessive over Elizabeth Short and the time she'd lived in his home. And they had parted on acrimonious terms. The people who came to visit Elizabeth in San Diego may have been other girls who lived at Mark Hansen's house who were trying to convince her to come back on Mark's behalf. But it's possible that Elizabeth was scared of Hansen either because of something he said or did or because of his connections to the criminal underworld.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well they were definitely on the else because. And it really honestly I. I can't believe that. Because the conflict wasn't with Mark Hansen in the house. It was with the other ladies.

[Marcus Parks]

I know that's why she got kicked out of the house.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

But there was also much acrimony between Hansen and Elizabeth Short as well because of the jealousy and all the boy like all the dangers going on.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I don't think the ladies are trying to bring her back.

[Marcus Parks]

But then who were those people?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I think that they were. It's the other people she pissed off. The ladies could have killed her. I think that we're also trying to. I don't think we're. I think we're slightly minimizing how many people Elizabet Short can pissed off in a very short period of time.

[Marcus Parks]

That is true.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I do think that she was as she got more desperate the like and this is not victim blaming. Her behavior got worse. Yeah. That as she got more desperate she was calling more and more people that did not want her around. And eventually what she was doing which would to me which would lead to her eventual death is burn so many bridges with her lies. Because it was the lies it was telling one people. She's going someplace and then not going there and then going and then stealing money and like being very. You know, she was a. She was a homeless woman.

[Ed Larson]

Desperation will put you in some really awful situations.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And then you have to make awful decisions in order to survive. And so I think that that's what she was doing. And it did lead to her death.

[Marcus Parks]

I think desperation is exactly what led to it. Because Elizabeth Short was also in the habit of pestering Hansen for money.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

And it was clear that Short was dead broke when she arrived back in Los Angeles on January 9th. No matter how afraid she might have been. It's possible that Mark Hansen was a last resort, as she'd already called. She could think of for help before calling him. Spent three hours on the phone trying to find somebody who would wire her money, help her out, nothing doing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

If that's true, there's a whole story about that also. Like, there's so many.

[Marcus Parks]

If that's true to every single thing that happens. No, if we do that, though, then there's no story. We're just docking. We just have a fucking bowl of crime pudding. That's what we're trying to shove into people's mouths. That's what I'm trying to serve a meal here. And you're trying to serve oatmeal. Good pudding.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is. But literally, it's not oatmeal. It's just understanding that this is the one theory.

[Ed Larson]

Oatmeal is a great breakfast. It is self defense.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You get the yogurt. I'm doing yogurt.

[Ed Larson]

I know, but I'll do oatmeal too, because of Wilford Brimley.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, we know that Elizabeth Short left the Biltmore just after talking to Hansen on the phone. And possibly by Hansen's direction, she may have ended up at the Aster Motel because Hoffman said that Short showed up on January 9th. See, Mark Hansen did tell the DA's office that he had two rooms in Los Angeles that he used for prostitution, although he did not say exactly where. While the Astro wasn't used specifically for sex work, it was where sex workers lived. So it's possible that Mark Hansen knew about this place through the grapevine. As far as why he didn't just bring her home. As you said, Elizabeth had gotten to a fight with one of the other girls at Hansen House just before she left. So he probably wasn't too keen on bringing her back. But Hansen had an obsession with Elizabeth, so the Aster was as good as place as any to keep her until he could figure out what to do with her. Now, once Elizabeth arrived at the Aster, she was given room number nine. But after a couple of days there, she could have moved to Mark Hansen's room next door when he showed up as the man from Batavia. Which is what Hoffman might have been talking about when he said she could have stayed there without his knowledge.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Or he just dumped her there and left.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's possible that some sort of argument between Elizabeth and Mark could have erupted in the few days that Hansen was in and out of the Aster. And it's possible that Hansen was simply tired of dealing with this situation altogether. Could also be that Elizabeth Short knew something she shouldn't have and threatened Hansen with exposure. During the argument reportedly in regards to Elizabeth Short, Hansen told an associate, someone get rid of that girl. And this could be where Leslie Dylan comes into the picture. According to motel owner Henry Hoffman and three other witnesses, Leslie Dylan was also at the Aster Motel during Elizabeth Short so called Lost Week. So if Leslie Dillon was given the task of getting rid of Elizabeth Short, it's possible that after moving her to room number three, he decided to have his way with her before getting rid rid of her. Remember, Leslie Dylan was an admitted rapist. And it's possible that he may have tried drugging and raping Elizabeth Short before killing her. And that's when the micro penis came out.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Always even just the lead up, I could tell a micropenis was coming. Just like. Just from the guy's attitude.

[Ed Larson]

We know he had a micropenis.

[Marcus Parks]

He definitely had a micropenis. Absolutely.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Going off the fact.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But we said this last time and it is. Remember, when you do see a microphone penis, always say put it in a crescent roll. If you see a micro penis, you go nice.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, I always wanted to one of these.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's what you say, wow.

[Marcus Parks]

Or just be nice.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Be nice.

[Marcus Parks]

Be nice.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Never. You know what you don't do?

[Ed Larson]

Oh no. More of a. If you feel all go yum yum.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yummy, yum yum yum yum.

[Marcus Parks]

Always be nice. Well, going off the fact that Dylan.

[Ed Larson]

Didn'T know you had a click Taurus.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, I think that that's how you become a black doll.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, going off the fact that Dylan was obsessed with vengeance murders, it could be that Elizabeth Short laughed at the sight of Dylan's eight year old boy penis. I mean that's kind of the Short sort of girl that Elizabeth Short was. I could see her from what I know about her, laughing at the side of it. Never knew it. And he knocked her cold as a result. He then bound her wrists and suspended her from the ceiling somehow using the oversized leather dog leash that was found in his luggage after his arrest. At least that by the way, was found to have a blood spot when it was examined by somebody outside of the LAPD because if you, I, I know what you're going to get to. Everything we're going to hear about the Aster Motel is all stuff that the LAP D Is saying.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And, you know, all of my leashes are covered in blood.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What's different? Your dogs openly bleed. That's what they like to do. And you're supporting them.

[Marcus Parks]

Now. Once Elizabeth was tied up, it's possible that Leslie Dylan decided to take out all the rage he felt about his small penis on Elizabeth Short. Beating her mercilessly, forcing her to eat feces and carving that ghoulish smile on her face. If you'll remember, Dylan told the river that he liked girls with, with quote, big mouths. After Elizabeth finally succumbed to her injuries, Dylan may have cut the body in two. And I'm kind of coming around to this idea so he could more easily transport it.

[Ed Larson]

That makes sense.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Then he drained it in the bathtub, which all of this would account for the ungodly amount of blood found all over that room.

[Ed Larson]

I thought it was in the. All the blood was on the bed.

[Marcus Parks]

It was on the bed. It was in the bathroom. It was everywhere. As for the feces, there's a large amount of debate as to whether or not that's what was actually in Elizabeth's short stomach.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is one of the most important points in this entire story is one of these, is this question. Well, because there's a lot of people if you read Severed, right. Like that's the big book.

[Marcus Parks]

Severed is the one. Well, severed is where this comes from.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. So the idea that she had, that she was force fed was in her torture is this big thing which connects it to the Astro Motel. I'm in the John Dudlit camp that believes what you had was that you do have someone with surgical experience.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That did cut somebody in half in order to transport them. But the reason why is that because the proper medical actual procedure to cut someone in half and have them live was not invented for another 20 years. Like, so that was like a thing for a while. People thought maybe this doctor knew how to do that. But we, that was not around to the 1960s. So whatever they did, they did expertly cut through the spine, but they did not expertly cut through the gastrointestinal system. So what that then led was to a backload of shit from her duodenum up into her upper half.

[Ed Larson]

You got to, you know, you know the saying, you want to make an omelette. You break some eggs, she could be the first person on this surgery.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So if you want to make a filled woman, you cut her in half. Great advice. I'm so glad you said that. I'm so glad Ed said that.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, some say it's entirely a myth, the whole feces thing, but the coroner did intimate in private conversations that he thought that she was fed human feces. And room number three was covered with the stuff along with all the blood.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It was brown.

[Marcus Parks]

But even if we want wanted to definitively test for feces or say, phenobarbital, which was the drug Dylan would have likely used to drug Elizabeth Short, they wouldn't be able to because the contents of Short stomach were lost along with so much else. But really, the big question mark with the Leslie Dillon theory concerns why he would dump the body in that particular vacant lot on that particular street in Leimert Park.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I still believe it's the single most important point in the entire case.

[Ed Larson]

Of course. Where they found the body.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, the reason I could come up with is that after driving around the vicinity of the motel to find a dump site, Dylan came across a neighborhood that was empty enough where he could dispose of the body in two trips without being seen, but still had enough people where his display would quickly be found. See, I think Dylan, if he is the killer, he was proud of what he'd done, evidenced by the D for Dylan carved into Elizabeth's skin.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's my name.

[Marcus Parks]

He was proud enough to write to Dr. Deriver under the name Jack sand, and proud enough to talk details, just so long as he could say, Jeff Kahn Connors did it. Dylan was not, however, proud enough to go to jail for the rest of his life for this crime. If you ask why, he played the game of talking about it, but had an about face after he was arrested. You might as well ask why Dennis Raider came out of hiding to restart communication with the media as the BTK Killer after he'd all but gotten away with killing 10 people. Dennis Raider wanted to cultivate the notoriety and fear surrounding the legend of the BTK Killer by sending missives to the press and police. But I'd imagine if you asked Dennis, he would have far preferred to have spent the rest of his life catching dogs in Witchita as opposed to dying in prison.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know what's funny? I really. I think this proves the opposite. I do.

[Marcus Parks]

How?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I think it proves the opposite. How? How? Tell me how.

[Marcus Parks]

You can't just do that thing where you say, I think it's the opposite. And then you don't say anything.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I can though. But what if I did? Well, just cuz the BTK in the very, very end, his action said I did want everybody to know, know about it. And that if I did want to go and live independently as a dog catcher, I absolutely could have. And I've kind of laughed my way all over the bank and no one would have known. And I think that that's the reason why. If Leslie Dylan did this as an. As an extra overkill for a mob boss and then made it one of the most famous crime scenes in the face of the planet, I think that he would then get whacked himself. I don't think that someone like how does that. I just think those things just don't mesh together. For me.

[Marcus Parks]

I think it is the same thing where these guys do want to up the notoriety of the killing. They do want to kind of. They want to play with the police. They like this idea like I'm smarter than the police. I can pull one over on them and I can still get some notoriety for it, but I'm not going to go to jail for it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But btk. Exactly. But Leslie Dylan, because all he wanted was notoriety. BTK was an actual serial killer. How did.

[Ed Larson]

Did they find anyone else with the letter D carved in them?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, that's. Then we'll get into the world if you want to, which I don't want to, which is the werewolf kills, which is a whole other thing. Cuz. What's her name? Jean. What's with the next. There was a crime that eclipsed the Black Dahlia right after this. What you believe is Jean. Straight.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, we talked about it in the first episode.

[Ed Larson]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And that had another initial carved in. That was like a whole other copycat thing they tried to put together. But we don't know. That's one of those. We just don't know.

[Ed Larson]

Are we positive it was a D and not like a sloppy O?

[Marcus Parks]

That's also a question.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That.

[Ed Larson]

That is.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that. That is. That is absolutely a question. Yeah. But the thing is that Dennis Raider slipped and fell flat on his face during his dance with Destiny. And he only copped because the evidence against him, from the communications to the trophies he kept from all his victims was overwhelming. Leslie Dillon, on the other hand, was able to skate the charges completely. And setting aside the question of his innocence or guilt, what we can say is that for some reason the LAPD had a vested interest in making sure Leslie Dillon never even went to trial. And that I think is the biggest point here, not necessarily that, you know, this man is, you know, they had somebody in custody that was, you know, definite, that was definitively the killer, and it was definitely solved. At the very least, the LAPD wanted to make sure that this man never saw the light of day and that the spotlight never came on Leslie Dillon in any meaningful way.

[Ed Larson]

Because they had him on the Santa Monica Vault robbery, right?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And then they had him on rape.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah, they had him on.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, they didn't have him on rape. They just. He just had a bunch of phenobarbital pills.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh.

[Ed Larson]

And how do we know he was a rapist? He admitted it.

[Marcus Parks]

Or he said, I drug and rape women. But that was not something that they could prove.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. It was also at the time, one of those fun things where it wasn't necessarily the hugest crime necessary. It was a whole. Like he was a. Considered a romance guy. He was an extreme romance man.

[Ed Larson]

Make America great again finally.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And we were finally gonna get the chance. See.

[Marcus Parks]

On the same day that a Gangster Squad member was supposed to take an official statement from Astor Motel owner Henry Hoffman, so they could start building their case in that direction, the officer was transferred out of the Gangster Squad without extra explanation. What's more, when another officer tried picking up at the Aster Motel where the Gangster Squad left off, his request for the files was denied without any explanation either. Things only got worse when a corruption scandal in the LAPD turned into a full scale investigation that went all the way to the mayor.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Dude, they it up to the stratosphere. Like that's like, that's the main point of this entire theory is that I think not even just. They didn't want Leslie Dylan to see the light of day. They didn't want anything to see the light of day because as soon as you lift that lid, you're going to see. They just let some fake doctor go with their. Their uncontrollable police squad, the Gangster Squad. These guys that are allowed to do whatever they want. They're not checking in with the police chief. They're not doing. They are literally completely uncon. They are a gang unto themselves.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And they're letting them run wild. And no one wants anything to come out because they're like, oh my God, everyone's going to see that we're a bunch of criminals.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, oh, no, because that's the thing at the. I'm talking about here is I don't think they gave a shit about everybody knowing about all the unconstitutional stuff because they did It. They did it all the time.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Once you got to the grand jury, didn't matter.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, like I don't think they cared at all. What they were most concerned about was this type of investigation. Yes, this type. The Vice Squad in particular. They were the gang unto themselves. They would beat up nightclub owners who didn't sell out to their organized crime friends. They'd raid gambling houses that didn't pay protection. And this is all while they let Million Dooll bingo parlors operate with impunity. Just so long as the cops got their share. Can you imagine playing bingo for millions of dollars?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I like it.

[Marcus Parks]

The whole thing. This entire scandal culminated in the resignation of the police chief. And the guy who replaced him reshuffled the whole department to avoid further scandal. That reshuffle, unfortunately, included the Gangster Squad and its leadership. The man put in charge of the squad after the Revolution Shuffle was. Who else but Finis Brown's brother, Thaddeus Brown, who, if you'll remember, had come to Mark Hansen's side after Hansen was shot by the dancer Lola Titus. Every Gangster Squad member still left on the Black Dahlia murder were given new assignments after Thaddeus Brown took over. And the investigation into the Astor Motel was handed to new officers who dropped the ball completely.

[Ed Larson]

It makes sense, though, in a weird way. Way, because they should have solved the fucking murder by now. You haven't done it. I'm going to give the case to someone else.

[Marcus Parks]

But they were right in the middle of a new line of investigation. Like they had leads. Like, I mean, with all the problems of the Astor Motel. Say what you will, it's leads. Like for the first time in two years, they've got leads. And then all of a sudden, this guy comes in whose brother is directly connected to not only this brother, he himself. Thaddeus Brown is directly connected to one of the men that they're investigating. And he's like, yeah, get out of here. Get. Get off it. Get off it. Forget about it. You're on something else.

[Ed Larson]

Take it back.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But also, I actually edit. I don't think you're necessarily wrong. I also think that the. The concept of Dr. Deriver up. Yeah. Really things up for them. Like, I think that they allowed it all. Like the corruption was just. It goes past, just active corruption into laziness, where you're watching them all. Like this whole thing becomes this big crime oatmeal bowl.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cause of this, because you got some.

[Ed Larson]

Cops that are just straight up taking bribes. You got. You got the hat squad, the Gangster Squad. They're like just beating people up for no reason.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, you got the bell hops. You can't just. A goddamn bellhop and mark. Everybody. The nightclub. Nightclub owners are fingering you in the butthole. Everybody is a suspect and no one's nice.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, well, as far as the press went during all this, Aggie Underwood, the reporter from the Los Angeles Held Herald Express who done so much work on the case, she heavily suspected that the investigation was intentionally killed because of its connections to Mark Hansen and the LAPD. She even ran two articles about the Astor Motel in September of 1949, respectively, titled Black Dahlia Murder Room Located and Link LA Motel Murder with Dahlia Murder. And she did all this to try to keep the investigative line alive.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean, she's a hero. Aggie Underwood, like something else.

[Ed Larson]

She is very person in this whole story.

[Marcus Parks]

And Aggie Underwood believed wholeheartedly that this case, the heart of this case, was Leslie Dillon, Mark Hansen, and the lapd. Jimmy Richardson, however, the last of the terrible men. He decided to stay cozy with the cops and reported that the new clues regarding the Black Dahlia murder, all the stuff about the Astor Motel, had been investigated and disregarded by, you guessed it, Thaddeus Brown. Now, even though most everyone else had given up on the Black Dahlia murder, Dr. Deriver could not let it go. Working with a private investigator, Deriver was able to get a grand jury investigation started to see if they could indict Leslie Dylan for the murder of Elizabeth Short. Now, Dr. Deriver's private investigator had discovered that the bellhop who claimed that Dylan was in San Francisco on the day of Elizabeth Short's murder had only said so after he had been approached by an officer from the lapd. See, apparently, bellhop was a bit of a roaming profession in those days, because both Leslie Dillon and his bellhop friend Ping pong between jobs in Los Angeles and San Francisco.

[Ed Larson]

Quick, I need you to get this hat to Los Angeles.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You got it? Absolutely. I'll ride my suitcase. I don't understand. Here is. This is like, how many syndicates are we looking at? All right, we got the. The regular mafia. We've got show business. We've got the place. The lapd.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We have got bellhops.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We have got. I'm trying to think. All the other various criminal organizations. Prohibition, you got the. The people coming in the. Well, not time. It was Prohibition was after. But it's like. But in terms of just gangsters, straight up, the normal, the big time. You got the Jewish Mafia. Yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You got multiple branches. Of the mafia, Italian and Jewish.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So this is a lot. Everybody's scheming something. It's like Los Angeles is a sea of various syndicates all competing to be the biggest criminal organizations.

[Ed Larson]

Well, because no one was running this town back then.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Nah, man. True freedom.

[Marcus Parks]

It's just scams upon scams and everybody's got something to hide. And when everybody's got something to hide, nobody wants to talk. And everybody's going to try to protect their guy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cuz the key is, is too. Everybody's got. If you got three scams going on and then you have something as atomic as the black Dalia murder land into this, into everybody's world. Right. It becomes this thing. I like to. Someone put this. I want to say. James Elroy talked about how Elizabeth Short is one of the most influential people in Los Angeles and she was only there for six months, which is like one of the most. That's so la.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

As it is. That's so. And like. But there, there is. It's. It's fascinating.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I mean, the bellhop had originally said that he'd seen Dylan in Los Angeles during the time of the Black Dahlia murder. Yeah, we were working bellhops at a hotel together. But after the police officer convinced him maybe he wasn't remembering things correctly, the bellhop changed his story to say, actually no, no, no. Dylan was definitely in San Francisco at. When the murder occurred. Regarding cabin number three at the Aster, the supposed kill room, the LAPD had supposedly tested it for blood and came up with nothing. But Deriver's PI sent in his own chemist and their tests came back positive for blood. The LAPD, however, dismissed the PI's findings because, quote, certain other substances were also found to be there.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Let me just. Okay, let me know one of them. Listen, we know it could be fertilizer, maybe, but have we thought about jelly? No one's thought about jelly. No one's thought about it.

[Marcus Parks]

No one's talked about it. You're right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Run any tests?

[Marcus Parks]

You're right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They didn't run no tests. We have no idea of. An elf exploded.

[Marcus Parks]

Did somebody lick it?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Guess what this is after Christmas. Yeah. Santa is in LA hanging out.

[Marcus Parks]

This is where he ends his run.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He's got, you know, he's off the bit. Man from Batavia shows up.

[Ed Larson]

And we all know the Dutch have sweet tooth.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They do, they do. And you go, I can love their jellies. I could see Santa maybe getting a little too crazy.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

At the Ash Motel. Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

He's like mad. He's like, where are my cookies? Why'd you leave out these danishes?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, exactly. You know, I don't know. So I could also say it could be raspberry. It could be raspberry poison berry from North Wa Hello. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing so your money has a chance to grow for you, you kids and your retirement. What's Carmi gonna spend her inheritance on? Ribeye? You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that fits you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you invest with the spare money you've got right now. Whatever you got in your pockets, you can start with $5. Even just your spare change, they'll take anything. Any kind of money that you have, they'll still take. Take it from you. All right? You don't need to feel like financial wellness is impossible because it's not.

[Ed Larson]

Acorns.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They give you small, simple steps to get you and your money on track. Acorns Acorns does a hard part so you can give your money a chance to grow. Give your money a chance to grow. Don't you want your money to grow and not die in the crib of Sids? Sudden Dwell Smith's Sudden Money Death Syndrome Smiths One of the worst things that can happen to your baby money. Head to acorns.com/last or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier 2 compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investors view important [e-mail] last you say you'll learn a new language each year, but few actually follow through. You have no discipline. You can't change your life for the better. Hmm, sad. But Babbel makes it easy for you to learn one in less time than you think. Isn't that better? Making it easy Babbel's 10 minute lessons created by over 200 experts help you start speaking a new language in three weeks or at your own pace. With a focus on practical, real world conversations. It makes learning to communicate easy and effective. Much like I can learn how to say foul, which means lazy in German because that's what you are, you dogs after New Year's. So make yourself unlazy unfairl by getting yourself Babel and learn a new language. Write now let's get more of you talking in a new language. Babel is gifting our listeners 60% off subscriptions at babel.com left get up to 60 off at babbel.com left spelled B-A-B-V-E-L.com left babbel.com left rules and restrictions may apply. Make this new year a milestone in your child's education with ixl. IXL uses advanced algorithms to personalize your child's learning experience, ensuring they receive the right support at the right time. And there's a lot of subjects on there. It's from counting and ABCs to advanced high schools. Topics like calculus and SAT prep make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and Last podcast on the left. Listeners can get an exclusive 20% off an IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com left visit ixl.com/left to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.

[Marcus Parks]

Now. As the grand jury prepared, the new crooked head of the gangster squad, Thaddeus Brown, had sent one of his officers to secretly meet with Leslie Dylan, who'd since moved back to Oklahoma. The purpose of this meeting was to make sure that Dylan knew that he was supposed to say that he was definitely in San Francisco during the Black Dalia murder, which is not really something that cops usually do with the murder suspect under investigation by a grand jury. It's. That's very fishy. Admittedly, there was one detail that came out when the investigation began that discredits Leslie Dillon in one respect. Dylan did get it right that part of Short's pubic hair had been cut off and that a piece of flesh where she had a tattoo had been gouged out. But in the Palm springs recordings with Dr. Deriver, Dylan got what the killer did with those parts wrong. He said that the killer would have probably thrown those pieces down the toilet and flushed them, whereas in reality, those pieces were shoved up Elizabeth Short's most private orifices.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What are those?

[Marcus Parks]

Her anus and vagina?

[Ed Larson]

Oh, yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, okay. I thought it was something like in a room. I thought it was like a drawers. I'm in a room. Oh, wow. Yeah, wow. That's different.

[Ed Larson]

Said something like that to prove his innocence in a weird way.

[Marcus Parks]

Just throw him off. I don't know. I mean, a lot of people point to that as like, ah, Leslie. Then Dylan didn't know what he was.

[Ed Larson]

Talking about, specifically cleaned up the body after he had killed them and done that. And then when they were cleaning up the body, they were like, we can't leave this flesh around.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now he's getting it. It gets complicated as soon as you start looking into the quantum facts.

[Ed Larson]

Like if you get on a quantum.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Level, it begins to fall apart.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

I mean, there's definitely more than one person involved.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But. Well, according to. I don't know. I've been thinking this this whole time, it was more than one person. But I do think that John Douglas makes a point. Two people can keep a secret if one of them's dead.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So maybe whoever did it killed the other one. There's no way. I feel like the same way about the JFK assassination. There's no fucking way that secrets too juicy for someone. Did not give in. Someone would give in.

[Ed Larson]

There could be people we've never even heard of that were killed the same.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Day as Elizabeth Short.

[Ed Larson]

Ditched in a different place. And when we have no fucking idea.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I made a joke about Deborah Tall, but yes. And honestly, one of the craziest things I've ever seen. Split down the middle.

[Ed Larson]

But vertical.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes, vertical.

[Marcus Parks]

Crazy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Laid inside crazy. Like a beautiful piece of branzino.

[Ed Larson]

God, I love a branzino.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Me too.

[Marcus Parks]

But when it came time for the original Gangster Squad investigators to testify for the grand jury, they said that they believe that Leslie Dylan and Mark Hansen were involved on at least some level. But every time they were on the verge of a breakthrough, they were taken off the case without explanation. But the Gangster Squad weren't the only cops who testified. And they weren't the only ones to talk about Mark Hansen. In particular. Finnis Brown muddied the waters as badly as he could and went to bat specifically for Mark Hansen one more time by telling a story that absolutely no one believed. Finis Brown testified that his connection to Mark Hansen was only through Lola T. Titus, the dancer who'd shot Hansen in the back. If you'll remember, Hansen had said, get me Brown. From his hospital bed after Lola had shot him.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now, unfortunately, Brown is a different context after this episode. So get me brown.

[Marcus Parks]

You mean like paint him brown? Get him a bowl of brown.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Bowl of brown. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Give me a bowl of brown. Well, the reason behind that request, Finis Brown was now saying, was because Hansen was a snake. Niche. Finis went on to say that Lola Titus was actually at the center of an underground pornography ring. And Finis had actually flipped Hansen to help take this pornography ring down. None of this was true. And nobody believed it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No.

[Ed Larson]

She was so young, right?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, she was in her early 20s. She was a very erratic human being.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She was sexy.

[Ed Larson]

She was kind of.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She kind of she's got vibe about her. But yeah, I think that. Yeah, I think that's that, you know. No, not this theory. Not this theory. No, I don't believe it.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, that's the thing is that this isn't a theory. And that's what this is, a grand jury testimony. Yeah, but like this is just saying stuff. Yeah, but that's. But that's part of the. Like that's part of the fishiness here is how far Finis Brown goes to try to make Mark Hansen a hero. To try to put Mark Hansen. Take Mark Hansen as far away from this case as humanly possible at every turn.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's also good just straight up because he really did believe he was innocent and that he felt that Mark Hansen was getting pulled in. And maybe it's because he does other shit and it's all the side gigs. I mean, he definitely did side gigs.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh no, he did do side gigs. He was a bag man for. He worked specifically for Mark Hansen. He was in debt to Mark Hanson.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What do you say?

[Marcus Parks]

I think it's a part of paying back the debt.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Absolutely. But what if he knocked the fucking. He just did all these other crimes. This is the problem. If you do every other crime but the Black Dahlia murder, they can still cover up for you. But it doesn't necessarily have to be for the Black Dahlia murder. It's because you're fucking fully in bed with a bunch of other criminals and now you're all. All trying to save your ass.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. Cuz if maybe if Mark Hansen didn't do it, if they looked into Mark Hansen deep enough, all of them would go down for other.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Of course.

[Marcus Parks]

And that might be. That might be a. A bit of my point later on.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That is my big. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But to really drive home his loyalty, Finis said that Hansen had actually been very helpful to the police during the Black Dolly investigation because he gave him money.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He was super helpful. I love this guy. It's like him sitting on a Jet Ski. This Jet Ski is so, so important to my investigative process.

[Marcus Parks]

But they said the reason why he was helpful is because he gave him photos of Elizabeth Short. Now, of course, the center of this grand jury investigation was supposed to be the Astor Motel. It was hoped that Mark Hansen could be linked to the case through the testimony of motel owner Henry Hoffman, who had been quite sure prior to the grand jury about the identity of the man from Batavia. But when it came time to testify, Henry Hoffman and his wife changed their tune. See, in the Black Dahlia case statements Had a habit of becoming confusing and contradictory after witnesses spoke with Finnis Brown in particular. And by the time of the grand jury, Henry and Clara Hoffman were now saying that there was no man from Batavia at the motel when Elizabeth Short was supposedly there. Now obviously, the Astor Motel was a shady operation run by shady people. And there's no telling what all the Hoffman's were involved with while they were running the motel or what they did after they sold it. So there's no telling what, if anything, the cops had over them.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Do you have any idea how hard it is to run an establishment while you're actively melting? I live in an Alice in Wonderland reality. Syphilis has occupied most of my brain. I don't know what's happening I'm a floating grin I look in the mirror I, I wish I knew who.

[Ed Larson]

Mr. Hoffman, there's blood in cabin three again.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, I went and looked at it. It was jelly. Santa. Santa. I'm coming after him. Did he leave his credit card?

[Ed Larson]

Is that why the blood was delicious?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes, Yes, I know, right? How about that brown? I like a dark brown for certain.

[Marcus Parks]

But it is telling that Clara Hoffman's sister and her brother in law, the oh my God, there's enough blood in here to fill a human body guy, they both stuck to their original story about the man from Batavia. In totality.

[Ed Larson]

I say that every time I go in a room.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh my God, there's a buff near to fill a human body in mine. See you soon, right? Hopefully. Right.

[Marcus Parks]

But in the end, this wasn't anywhere near enough. Now when the grand jury issued its report, they did declare that the investigation into the Black Dahlia murder was a part of a systematic corruption of the justice system that ultimately led to an increasing number of unsolved homicides in Los Angeles.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Absolutely.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Like that is the. I feel like that's the main note because I do think you have a grand jury looking at this mess.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, that's the thing. They also noted in their report that the police officers were who were supposed to be solving the Black Dalia murder were evasive, corrupt and prone to misconduct.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. So like everything was a mess.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

And there was lots of murder in Los Angeles at this point.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And high profile murders. You remember right before this it was the three Little girls and that rape murder series. That was horrible. There was a series again, the werewolf murders. There was the. This was a.

[Marcus Parks]

All the gangland murders. Like Bugsy Siegel was killed five months.

[Ed Larson]

It's got to be almost impossible to solve a murder in Los Angeles in this time, even if you're not corrupt.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But that's. They. It's the issue. They think, well, wait to my point. I gotta get to my.

[Marcus Parks]

Gotta wait for the act. But in the end, the LAPD had introduced enough doubt to make the grand jury declare that there was insufficient evidence to investigate Leslie Dillon or Mark Hansen any further. Afterward, the new LAP LAPD chief fired Dr. Deriver and abolished the position of police psychiatrist in retaliation for going against the L.A.P.D. cops harassed Dr. Deriver for years. They followed him. They broke into his house. They would shoot at him, like, just in his general direction. Just bang, bang. Everyone's all. They leave dead fish on his doorstep, dude. And this isn't just Dr. Driver being. Being paranoid. Like, his daughter came out and said, like, yes, for years we were harassed by the lap.

[Ed Larson]

Back in the day, you could shoot at somebody, and it was funny.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, that guy's craz.

[Marcus Parks]

America. Oh, great disguise.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The. But Dr. Deriver it is. I remember reading an article. One of the last things I had read about him was that they had found him right before his death. This, like, reporter wanted to hear about all this, and Dr. Deriver, he answered. It's just like a fucking film noir. It was, like, in the late 80s. And then he went to this, like, Hollywood mansion, and he went up there and he knocked on the door. And the door opens, and Dr. Deriver's in his. His ascot and his robe, and he has a gun. And he comes out and he's just like, are you the man? And I'm supposed to see. And he's just like, yeah, buddy, yeah. And he's just being like, I never know who's coming to kill me. I never know who's on the other side of the stall. And it was crazy. They're like, Jesus fucking Christ, buddy. All right, guys. I think maybe since Switch Decaf.

[Marcus Parks]

Reporter Aggie Underwood also got harassed by the cops for continually insisting on more investigation into Leslie Dylan and Mark Hansen. Enough. And she got harassed enough where she started carrying a gun everywhere she went, just in case. Eventually, she backed down. But author Pew Eatwell discovered something interesting in the California State University journalism archives. This is about the most Black Dahlia fucking thing that could possibly, possibly happen. It was an interview with aggie Underwood from 1974. But just as it appears as if she's about to talk about the Black Dahlia case, the film mysteriously cuts. So we'll have. No. So we have no idea what she may have said.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I think her waist just did that.

[Ed Larson]

I think she's A suspect man.

[Marcus Parks]

Dylan.

[Ed Larson]

Well, no poo.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Eat well.

[Marcus Parks]

You eat well. In the name.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Finally, the whole world will receive my pool. World of information.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, as far as what Leslie Dylan did with the rest of his life. He remarried quite a few times, and eventually. This is weird. Even if he didn't do it, he had a daughter named Elizabeth.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Weird.

[Ed Larson]

That is up.

[Marcus Parks]

It's real up.

[Ed Larson]

Someone should just beat the out of him for that.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, well, he's dead. He died in San Francisco in nineteen 1988. Still, occasionally, even if you're 25 in 1947, there's not a good chance that you're still around in 2025. Yeah. Now, there are certainly holes in the Leslie Dillon case. There was no firm connection established between him and Mark Hansen.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No.

[Marcus Parks]

It was never incontrovertibly proven that he was in LA during the time of the murders.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Why would the bellhops cover for him when they got other crimes going on? They would gladly give up the Black Dahlia murder so that they could get. They could be absolved of other things.

[Ed Larson]

Because all the bellhops work together. And Jill's got information on the other bel bellhop. So if he takes him down, he's gonna take him down.

[Marcus Parks]

But I think that one bellhop. I think the cop did have something on him. Like, either say that he was in San Francisco at the time of the murder, or you're going to jail.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, or you don't get to keep that diamond necklace you stole from that lady.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, but it fits me so well, doesn't it?

[Marcus Parks]

And, you know, and Leslie dawn also got some of the mutilation details wrong in one of his interviews. And even the Astor Motel itself has its problems. I mean, witnesses got the color of Elizabeth's hair wrong. The shuffling of the rooms from nine to eight to three doesn't a lot of sense. The interviews were all done two years later. And it's possible that the gangster squad, just like all the rest of the cops, just simply leaned on these people until they told a story that the squad wanted to hear.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And now I also say our next hero, a man by the. One of the most grumpy men to ever live. No, no, no. You seem very sweet, actually. I think he actually was very nice. I think it was a character he played.

[Ed Larson]

No, he was big on the track. He would always lose all his money at the track.

[Marcus Parks]

He was.

[Ed Larson]

Gambled away millions.

[Marcus Parks]

I'd actually put Jack Lemon. I put Jack Lemon as the grumpier old man I've heard he was.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And that just Makes me like him more.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I like somebody who loses all their money.

[Marcus Parks]

Everyone loves Meredith Purchase, though.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I think it's cute. So one of the grumpiest men that we're ever going to meet, honestly, Larry Harnish. He's going to come in spoiler next episode is that he says one of the most poignant statements I have heard about this whole case, which is that you'll find that. That the people with some of the least to do with this are so excited to get themselves involved in this case and that they show up and they. They are excited. I think that when you first go to the Aster Motel and you ask all these questions about Elizabeth Short, I think that you're first, like, you want to give the cop a good answer. You do. You want to get him out of there.

[Marcus Parks]

But no, no, no, that's. That the problem with that is that it actually took the cops quite a long time to get the information out of these people.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Probably because you're also showing up and leaning on them.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Until they do give you something. But I think that it's very exciting at very first blush to be a part of this story. But then what Larry Harnish says, but you notice when I talk to the family members, anyone that this case has actually touched, it destroyed their lives so thoroughly that they never want to have anything to do with this ever again. They don't want to talk about it. And so.

[Marcus Parks]

But those family members.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, but it's not just family members. It's like the people that actually knew her, the people that, like the people around the. These people.

[Marcus Parks]

So the.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This story, like, these are looky loose. Like, that's how I view it. They are looky loose that at first were super excited about being involved in the case. But the problem with dumb, impulsive people is they don't understand the consequences of their actions. And then once they finally, like, oh, wow, it's a big deal. You go down to the courthouse, you got the cops everywhere. The judge is staring you. Now it's real. Now, this isn't just me standing on the street telling you kind of what I thought sort of happened. Now it's like, oh, I better. I got to say something. And maybe that's where the truth comes. I don't know. I have no idea.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, I mean, you could technically say that about any witness in any crime ever.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, because I find that they're brave witnesses. That. But that's why the difference between there are brave witnesses. This is somebody that wanted to tell this version of the story instead.

[Marcus Parks]

Maybe. But there's also the question as to why the LAPD or Mark Hansen's underworld connections didn't just disappear Leslie Dylan. But I think Dylan might have had a dead man switch set up that could have exposed everyone should something suspicious happen to him. It's a stretch, but it's certainly a possibility.

[Ed Larson]

Also, he went to Oklahoma. Get out of this town. I don't want to ever see you again.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, he did.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He did.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Having said all that, though, I do think that out of all the suspects I've looked into so far, the story of Leslie Dylan and Mark Hansen makes the most sense. That Dylan was supposed to simply kill and dispose of Elizabeth Short, but got carried away. In my view, there are just too many coincidences to let this story go unexamined.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Definitely this is. And then this is a pillar of the Black Dahlia story, because this is also. This whole storyline is the natural timeline that happened at this. At the time. Everything else now is going to be after the grand jury.

[Marcus Parks]

Admittedly, though, I can also absolutely see Leslie Dylan being just some guy who liked to be creepy. A manipulator who just wanted to see how far he could take a. A story. But I do wholeheartedly believe that the LAPD had an interest in keeping this case unsolved. Either because they were connected or somebody paying them was connected. Really what this story shows is just how much damage police corruption and cover ups can do to an investigation. Even if Mark Hansen had nothing to do with it, the meddling that took place to protect him at all costs stymied the investigation again and again. Instead of searching for the killer, Finis Brown was often more concerned with derailing any line of investigation that led to Mark Hansen, organized crime, or the lapd. And in the end was left with only a vague theory that the killer might have been an illegal abortion. Dr. Mark Hansen may have even just been a rung on the latter. Someone tangentially related to the murders who had to take a small amount of heat on behalf of someone more powerful. But if that's the case, we'll never know. Because the police made sure we'll never know. That, however, does not mean that we're at the end of our series just yet.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I saw y'all you pieces of I. How many people were like, oh, they're willing to do three episodes? Definitely not. I knew that. Yeah, I had an idea of that. That that was the things we're going to change as soon as we got into it, dude. Because, man, I think everybody's guilty.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Next week we're going to return with two more suspects. The one you've all been waiting for, and another lesser known suspect that just so happens to be Henry's top pick as the likely perpetrator of the Black Dahlia murder.

[Ed Larson]

Dwight D. Eisenhower.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Where was he? Where was he? The war was over. Was he done with killing? I don't think so.

[Marcus Parks]

He wasn't president yet.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And as we know now, presidents are immune of all crimes.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So actually, good for him.

[Marcus Parks]

Was it Dewey?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Marcus, I'm so excited that we're doing this because obviously we're going to go into a little bit of the. I'm going to say the man who should not be named.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because everybody has covered this guy. But we're going to cover exactly why it's stupid that people think that this guy is the guy.

[Marcus Parks]

I think, personally, I mean, at the very least, this man is a fantastic Los Angeles character. Like, he's just a fascinating person.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And a character means a pedophile. And then we're going. The other one is Walter. Well, the other one's my favorite. The other one's my favorite. Which is again. And I. But I will say, Marcus, I'm agnostic.

[Marcus Parks]

You're agnostic.

[Ed Larson]

You don't seem agnostic.

[Marcus Parks]

You seem very sure, very passionate and very sure. The whole episode.

[Ed Larson]

You seem. The last thing I would say is agnostic.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know what I know because you know what I've known. Now you know I know now.

[Ed Larson]

What?

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's how little I know. No, it's how little I know. That's how. That's what I know now. Now I. I'm aware of how little I actually know.

[Ed Larson]

I like how heated it gets during a mystery. We gotta do more mysteries.

[Marcus Parks]

I hate Myst.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cuz he doesn't like it when I come from behind.

[Marcus Parks]

No, I just.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He works and then I go down in the shadows and I come up with new things that surprise and delight him and make him angry.

[Ed Larson]

That's why. That's why I love doing the SeaWorld telecom did it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Absolutely. We have it on camera.

[Marcus Parks]

I like stories where you tell me what happens and then we find out what happens and then the whole thing's over and done with.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It doesn't work like that, does it, Marcus?

[Marcus Parks]

No, it doesn't work like that. But this has still been a fascinating series. And. And the thing is about the Black Dahlia murder is that. Yeah, it's. You know, that's one of the drawbacks of the show is that we have a limited amount of time to spend on all of these. Everything that we do, we have a limited amount of time because we always have to get to the next thing and we're always finishing up with the last thing. But the more you look into the Black Dahlia murder and the more you look into any single subject concerning the Black Dahlia murder, all you have is more questions. Because there were things that I would. Even while I was writing this, I came up with more questions about, like, Mark Hanson as I was writing. Because, like, ah, well, yeah, actually. Well, yeah, people. She did have brown hair when. And all these people said that she had black hair. And it's just like these holes start showing up and you start asking all these questions. And this, this case drives people insane. It drives people absolutely insane.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It has ruined Larry Harnish's life.

[Ed Larson]

Well, I think we'll talk about this.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I love. I love you, Larry. I'm going to say this right now. This is a message directly to Larry Harnish. I know you don't like true crime podcasts. Right. I know you don't like them. But I'm going to let you know, we're going to tell your side of the story. We're going to tell your side of the story. And we're going. And we're. And you're going to be mad about it. You're going to be.

[Marcus Parks]

You're going to probably get. I'm probably going to get a thing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Or two incorrect and we might even be slightly flippant. You're going to be angry. But I want you to know we're. I'm hearing you.

[Marcus Parks]

Hearing you. Yeah, I'm hearing you. I think, you know, I think the reason why this story drives people insane is because it's like, it is just out of reach from modern day. Like, it's like, it's just that you can, you can go to the locations, you can see all the pictures, you can feel it, but everybody's dead. It's like you're just out of reach, you know, like, everybody's dead. Everything's already been muddled up and up.

[Ed Larson]

It's like burned and the evidence has been destroyed.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Because back in the day, it was so much easier to get away with murder than it is today.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And this story is what gets people into true crime ever since. This is one of those introductory stories that brings people in, which is also shows here. It's like. And I feel like I like to show a little bit of our dynamic.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You can see that this is how people yell about Mysteries. And you can see us physically do it on our patreon.com Last podcast on the left. You can see us flap and see my tits go back and forth. Twitch TV slash LPN TV. We are back. It is the year 2025. Wow. Isn't it the future?

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, isn't it now? Yeah, yeah, 2025.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It is the year 2025.

[Marcus Parks]

What did you think you were going to be doing in 2025 when like say when you were 15?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Do you know I was one of those was like, I'm going to die early.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cuz I was like, I was into Chris Farley and John Belushi and stuff like that. So I thought I was going to die, I imagine.

[Ed Larson]

I thought I was going to coach football or something.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I thought you wanted to be governor.

[Ed Larson]

No, never want to to be governor. Why would Florida? Anyone can be governor of Florida. That's great.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cuz it's sinking. You have less state to deal with.

[Ed Larson]

You know what, you know where, where we should be talking about is this Saturday.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

A week from Saturday.

[Henry Zebrowski]

A week from Saturday. Next week we are in Atlanta at the Coca Cola Roxy. We. I can't wait to be back in town.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, we're going to be great.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Huge shed. Yeah. And then we're doing side stories live at Dad's garage. But that's already sold out.

[Ed Larson]

So you got to go see the last podcast on a left show at the Coca Cola Rox. January 11th. And you can't make that. Fly to Dallas.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Fly to Dallas.

[Ed Larson]

Fucking get in a cabin getting a. Getting a wet covered wagon to fucking Nashville. Take a moped to Detroit or don't.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Take a moped to Detroit. It's going to be cold.

[Marcus Parks]

Fly a pterodactyl to Toronto. That's on May 3rd. Yeah. February, March, April, May. That's Dallas, Nashville, Detroit, Toronto and of course Atlanta. A week from tomorrow on January 11th. Go to last podcast on the left.com to find Ticket links for all of those shows and make sure to follow us on all of these socials at LP on the left on Tik Tok and Instagram.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you, Marcus. Good work.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you.

[Ed Larson]

Great work.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, I'm sure everyone's yelling about how wrong I am about everything.

[Ed Larson]

You are presenting all of the information.

[Marcus Parks]

I presented all the information.

[Ed Larson]

Warts and all the information exists and you are presenting it. And if you didn't do that, then you wouldn't be doing your job.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You're right.

[Marcus Parks]

That's right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But this, guess what? It's not going to stop here. We already have our next couple series lined up. Yeah, you know, we're doing. I'm very, very excited for 2025.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Super excited about the shit that we got coming up. Some history, some new shit. We've got some current shit coming up. We got some old conspiracies we've been waiting to get to for a very long time. By conspiracies, I mean, like, the dumbest shit in the world.

[Henry Zebrowski]

My favorite.

[Marcus Parks]

Like.

[Ed Larson]

And we're finally gonna find out who killed Nicole Brown Simpson.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, Honestly, that's my main goal. And what happened to the waiter? Yeah, like, what happened to that later?

[Ed Larson]

I mean, talk about. There wasn't even delivery back then.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's service. You're right.

[Ed Larson]

Going and taking it all the way to the house.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Crazy.

[Marcus Parks]

That's crazy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a great waiter. And apparently only tip he got was a knife tip. All right, guys, let's go. Hey, Hail Satan. August season.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, hell.

[Ed Larson]

Hail Black Dahlia. Murder the band?

[Marcus Parks]

Sure, yeah, they're friends.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hey, Black Dahlia Murder. How you doing? Hey, good work, guys.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Is Irresponsible the name of your band?

[Marcus Parks]

Maybe they're dinner.

[Henry Zebrowski]

See you, fuckers. Netcredit is here to say yes to a personal loan or line of credit when other lenders say no. Apply in minutes and get a decision.

[Marcus Parks]

As soon as the same day.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Loans offered by Netcred or lending partner.

[Marcus Parks]

Banks and serviced by Netcredit.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Application subject to review and approval. Learn [e-mail] partners netcredit credit to the people.

[Marcus Parks]

FedEx doesn't know your small business yet.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Maybe it's handmade apparel for dogs. Maybe it's handmade apparel for cats. Maybe it's a third example I can't think of. What FedEx does know is that running a small business is hard enough without the hassle of complex shipping. That's why there's FedEx one rate. Did you know that with FedEx one rate you can ship your holiday packages.

[Marcus Parks]

Cheaper than the post office?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Send packages as low as 1450 for small boxes. Visit fedex.com onerate for details. Exclusions apply. Valid 10, 6, 24 through 11925. FedEx one rate. Two day retail shipping one flat rate.