Episode 610: Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell - The Doomsday Murders Part II - Ticking Time Bomb

Summary

Summary of "Last Podcast on the Left" Episode 610: Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell - The Doomsday Murders Part II - Ticking Time Bomb

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Introduction

In Episode 610 of The Last Podcast on the Left, titled "Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell - The Doomsday Murders Part II - Ticking Time Bomb," the hosts delve deeper into the chilling saga of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. Building upon the foundations laid in the previous installment, this episode explores the intricate web of beliefs, family dynamics, and sinister events that culminated in the tragic murders associated with this duo.

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Background on Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell

The episode begins by revisiting the rise of Chad Daybell within the Mormon neo-fundamentalist community. Chad leveraged his appearances on podcasts and seminars to amass a following of apocalypse-minded individuals, predominantly women. Among his most fervent supporters was Lori Vallow, who would later become his partner in crime.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zebrowski [05:23]: "This is part two of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow's story, a tale filled with death, sex, betrayal, religion, and lies."

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Family Influence and Early Life of Lori Vallow

Lori Vallow's upbringing in the Cox family is scrutinized, highlighting the toxic environment shaped by her parents, Janice and Barry Cox. The family's extreme Mormon beliefs and dysfunctional relationships sowed the seeds of Lori's later actions. Janice's obsession with beauty and Barry's involvement in right-wing extremist movements, including sovereign citizenship, deeply influenced Lori's worldview.

Notable Quote:

Marcus Parks [12:10]: "Barry Cox was truly extreme Mormon... He put the Cox in his family."

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Connection and Collaboration with Chad Daybell

The episode details how Lori's path crossed with Chad Daybell at a Mormon end-times conference in St. George, Utah. Their immediate chemistry and shared apocalyptic beliefs propelled them into a close partnership. Chad introduced Lori to his esoteric beliefs, including the White Horse Prophecy, which further solidified their alliance.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zebrowski [95:08]: "Chad and Lori went from zero to a hundred almost instantly."

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The Doomsday Preparations and Escalation of Violence

As Lori and Chad's relationship intensified, so did their preparation for the anticipated apocalypse. Their collaboration led to a series of violent acts, including the attempted murder of Lori's ex-husband, Joe Ryan, by her brother Alex Cox. This incident marked the beginning of a pattern of coercion, manipulation, and murder orchestrated by Lori and executed by her family members.

Notable Quote:

Marcus Parks [27:00]: "People consume the show in all audio form only format, but Chuck and Lori were already on their way to committing heinous crimes."

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Manipulation and Control within the Family

Lori's influence over her family, particularly her brother Alex, is examined. Her ability to manipulate her siblings into committing violent acts is portrayed as a critical factor in the escalation of the family's criminal activities. The hosts discuss how Lori's fabricated stories of abuse were used to justify extreme measures against those she deemed threats.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zebrowski [88:46]: "Lori liked to deal out death. She liked to say who needs to die and who deserves to live."

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Belief Systems and Justifications for Violence

The interplay between the Cox family's extremist beliefs and their justification for violence is a focal point of the discussion. Lori and Chad's adoption of manipulated religious doctrines provided a veneer of legitimacy to their murderous actions, allowing them to rationalize their heinous deeds within their warped moral framework.

Notable Quote:

Marcus Parks [81:24]: "She looked up the Book of Mormon to find justification to kill her ex-husband without guilt or retribution from God."

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Conclusion and Teaser for Part III

The episode concludes by foreshadowing the continuation of the story in the next installment, promising to uncover further details about the intertwined lives of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell, and the ultimate consequences of their doomsday preparations.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zebrowski [108:35]: "It's all very stupid and it only gets dumber from here. We'll pick back up next week for Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow, part three."

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Key Takeaways

• Extremist Beliefs: Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell's extremist interpretations of Mormonism and apocalyptic prophecy were central to their motivations.
• Family Dynamics: Dysfunctional family relationships and manipulation were pivotal in facilitating their descent into violence.
• Justification of Violence: Twisted religious beliefs provided a framework that rationalized their murderous actions.
• Escalation of Crime: Their partnership led to a series of escalating violent acts, driven by a shared obsession with end-times ideologies.

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Final Thoughts

Episode 610 provides a compelling and disturbing look into the minds of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell, illustrating how extremist beliefs and toxic family dynamics can culminate in tragic outcomes. The hosts adeptly navigate through the complexities of the case, offering insights while maintaining the engaging and darkly humorous tone characteristic of The Last Podcast on the Left.

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Note: This summary contains references to sensitive and disturbing events. Listener discretion is advised.

Transcript

[Marcus Parks]

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[Henry Zebrowski]

Don't miss the Hulu original docu series Devil in the Family, the Fall of Ruby Frankie. My wife creating a YouTube channel.

[Marcus Parks]

Thumbs up.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Subscribe, but only what we wanted to show. I'm still recording a three part series of that. She said the children were demonically possessed.

[Marcus Parks]

Get out.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That blew the powder keg. Ruby crossed a line to Psychotic nine.

[Ed Larson]

Online emergency.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Open the door. Hulu Steppel in the Family the Fall of Ruby Frankie. All episodes now streaming on Hulu.

[Marcus Parks]

From the boogie down streets of Queens to a pile of beans. A new cup of piping hot polish attack. Italian java. Last podcast on the left and Springhill Jack Coffee are rising from the rubble.

[Henry Zebrowski]

With the new brew.

[Marcus Parks]

Butterfly Dudes Blue Eye Blend. Nothing to do with any moth based entity. Don't even think about it. This is a butterfly dude. Don't mind the blue eyes. He's just Caucasian. Our new proprietary roast might seem eerily similar, but don't let your tongue deceive you. It's a butterfly dude Rose. This is the butterfly dude's Blue eyed blend. Entirely delicious. And not just the same beans. Butterfly Dudes Blue Eye Blend. From the cocoon to your room.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's no place to escape to.

[Ed Larson]

This is the last on the left.

[Marcus Parks]

When the cannibalism started. What was that? I just want to kind of maybe open up today's episode. First of all, talking about how you guys are handling your own demonic attacks inside of your homes, right?

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Marcus Parks]

How has it been? Like, have you been able to sleep? I was trying to sleep last night, but demons kept jumping inside of my penis and making it big.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Big.

[Marcus Parks]

Like too big. And I was scared of. At first I was scared. Natalie was curious.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Then she was scared. Then we were both delighted. Then we were confused and we went to sleep. But then because I fell back asleep. Penis deflated.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. And so it's fine. Back to normal today.

[Marcus Parks]

Smaller than yesterday.

[Ed Larson]

Interesting.

[Marcus Parks]

Which I also don't like that. I feel like in a way it's like if we wear too small of shirt.

[Ed Larson]

Have you tried rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and Rubbing it and rubbing.

[Marcus Parks]

It and rubbing it all morning. And then I called my ne and he came by and he says, have you been talking about Chad Dabel and Lori Valo? And I said, yes. He's like, I had a demon come into my house last night and make my wife's clitoris five inches long. And I was like, is that good or bad? And he just gave me two thumbs up, and I realized he wasn't wearing any pants. So I actually, in a way, that way it's kind of helping the neighborhood. But have you guys seen anything kind of the same or different?

[Ed Larson]

Well, I learned how to bless my own urine.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. And so it's really. So I got holy water coming out of me all day, so I'm doing great.

[Marcus Parks]

Can you actually.

[Ed Larson]

Would you like me to.

[Marcus Parks]

Give me some? Can you give me some, please, Daddy, I want to be your hope. Urinal.

[Ed Larson]

Is that why you were laying down next to the toilet earlier?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Welcome to last podcast. On the left, ladies and gentlemen. I'm free of demons. Marcus Parks.

[Marcus Parks]

You're free of demons?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Totally free of demons. Oh, no, no. I. I sold my soul many a year ago, so they don't bother me anymore.

[Marcus Parks]

Whoa.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You know what my problem is? You know what I never did when I was doing all that pa? Obviously I'd have no need for it. As a matter of fact, I could lose it. I could lose the weight, sure. But I forgot to click finish on the DocuSign. That's how the devil gets you again. Ultimate Trixie. You didn't finish complete.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And we have the technologically impaired Henry Zabrowski.

[Marcus Parks]

It's not me who's technologically impaired. Honestly, how am I supposed to know? It's always, like, at the end of some blank page.

[Ed Larson]

I can't believe we all just agreed to just sign through the Internet. Yeah, it's like we just cut that. Like, the one thing that, like, really kept it real. We just make up my signature.

[Marcus Parks]

I want to say my signature is just like a scribbled drawing of a flower. You know, print.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And we have longing for the old days. It's Ed Larson.

[Ed Larson]

X. That's what I sign.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I like a good old fashioned X. Oh, yeah, that's right. You still haven't learned to read or write.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no, no.

[Ed Larson]

But I did learn that X is called X and not line.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Line.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Wow, man, you're really growing up.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, man. Now I'm learning how to play the line. Line. The phone. I mean, the.

[Marcus Parks]

Get better learn. I need you to Learn letters.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And here we are for Chad Daybell and Lori Valow, part two.

[Marcus Parks]

Yay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So when last we left the story, Chad Daybell had finally gained a following of sorts in the Mormon neo fundamentalist doomsday community. By appearing on Mormon prepper podcasts and giving talks at New age seminars about the impending apocalypse. Chad had gathered a small group of apocalypse minded Mormons who were on the same near death experience trip as him. These followers however, were mostly women. And amongst his biggest fans was his eventual partner in crime, Lori Valo.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep, we're meeting her today. Oh, sweet, sweet Lori. Finally my life is complete. She's gonna ruin us all. You know, Chad Dabel, what I do find is interesting is that I actually I watched a really good in depth interview with Heather Daybell, his sister in law. One thing in common with all of these X mos, they all got that Connie Britton Yellowstone hair. Yeah, everybody's got the big hair that looks like. Kind of looks like a Tina Turner wig. It's got a bunch of four different.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh you mean Friday, Friday Night Lights hair. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

It's not sort of like four different kinds of blondes in it. You know what I mean? It's very big. They all got also crazy fakie.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, but why not big old crazy bing bong after you're out of the Mormon Church? Go ahead, have at it.

[Marcus Parks]

Strap them on, man.

[Ed Larson]

It's more man.

[Marcus Parks]

It is. But now you're more woman. Right. But Chad Daybell, he was like weirdly, the way she talked about it, it finally nailed something in the head for me. He was so pompous. He thought that he was so cool. And the worst thing ever was that when he pulled into Rexburg with sad Tammy Daybell in tow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. When he's here to. He's here for the. The new Jerusalem.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah. When he showed up, the worst part was that everybody loved it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

When he. They were all. They became like very popular.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's. Yeah, I said that last episode.

[Marcus Parks]

And they keep walking around and telling other people how their land is eventually going to be theirs. That is also wild to go into.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Somebody'S house and Idaho it lit, no less.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah. They're like, oh yeah. All of this we'll be using this year for the. That'll be for the lazy river in the post apocalypse. And they're like, what? But most of the people like. Yep. Yeah. Oh yeah. See you too, Jed.

[Ed Larson]

That's because he looks like a peeled potato.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He was going to take him seriously. He's Never going to get this off the ground.

[Marcus Parks]

I do think there was some of that being like, it's fun for now.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. In almost like a little bit of Mormon politeness as well. Like where it's like, I'm not going to tell this guy to fudge off. Just like. Yes. Encourage him, smile and just let it go.

[Marcus Parks]

You also joke. We talked a little bit about this.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm not joking.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, 100% serious Mormon politeness is a weapon.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Much like their. And their arrogance, like Southern charms.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

It's like their arrogance is what is going to kill this family.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Now, we spent the majority of the last episode telling the life story of Chad Daybell. And while his life story is extremely interesting, it's pretty damn tame for the most part because of Chad's extreme Mormon demeanor. Line. Line Mormon. Yeah. But you know Chad, he didn't really go off the rails completely until he met Lori Ballo. So today we'll be covering the story of the person who pushed Chad over the edge. A story filled with death, sex, betrayal, religion and lies. This is the life lived by everyone's favorite Idaho, Lori Vallow. But Lori is only part of the picture here. As we cover her, we'll also be covering her family in detail because none of us would have ever known Lori Valo's name had it not been for the influence of her parents and conversely, the influence Lori was able to exert on other members of her family, like Patrick Schwarzenegger. Yeah. Particularly we're going to be covering Lori's brother, Alex Cox, who would in time become directly responsible for two attempted murders and three actual murders. Alex was just as if not more psychopathic than Lori Valo herself. And that's not even to mention the fact that Alex was also an open mic standup comedian.

[Marcus Parks]

And which is worse, his credits include.

[Ed Larson]

Killing men, girls and boys. Please welcome to the stage Alex Khan.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Thank you, thank you, thank you, everybody. Kill my sister's kids, please, if you could, anybody. I'm just so lazy. Anybody here ever kill a man and fake self defense for their sister? And then she doesn't even have the good grace to sleep with you. The worst. Still hard thinking about it. Anyways, those Utah Jazz. More like the Utah as you make sure to hit your waitress, folks.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So Lori Vallow came into this world as Lori Cox in Loma Linda, California on June 26, 1973, the fourth of five children born to two massive Mormon pains in the ass named Janice and Barry Cox.

[Marcus Parks]

Barry Cox is truly extreme Mormon.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

This is the Most extreme Mormon that you could meet.

[Ed Larson]

Triple X, the horniest name of all time, Barry Cox.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah. I didn't even get it. Oh, yeah, buddy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Barry Cox.

[Marcus Parks]

And guess what? He might have a bit of the Fritzel in him as well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Definitely.

[Marcus Parks]

He truly was. He put the Cox in his family.

[Henry Zebrowski]

See, unlike Chad Daybell's family, Lori's brood was far more relaxed when it came to mixing the secular world with the Mormon world. Janice Cox, Lori's mother, she wore high heels, tight leopard skin pants, short tight tops. She loved to bleach blonde her hair. And Lori's father, Barry, he was a gambler who liked to sometimes bring Lori along as a good luck charm.

[Ed Larson]

You know, in the dock, Lori looks like a iguana with a wig on.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, you talking about Janice?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Janice, Janice? Yeah. Oh, God, yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Janice is Burt.

[Ed Larson]

She looks like our liquor eyeball once.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, when somebody looks like their sins.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, like they look like the thing that they did bad. That's like what she did because she's really is. She's like a little like.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She's a Stephen King character.

[Marcus Parks]

She. Yes, yes. But, you know, they were the fun family. Yeah, they were considered the fun Mormon group because all her. Her cousin Megan went to go stay with them several times and she said that Barry Cox took them all to see Rambo. And she said, obviously in the Mormon community that's big. No, no. But Barry Cox overrided by being like, that's the kind of way we're going to be living soon. In the forest, fighting the police one by one. He was ready to go. And he loved prostitutes.

[Ed Larson]

Man.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Did he?

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I didn't know that about him.

[Marcus Parks]

Love them. I love them because it's not that you pay him to come and it's not that you pay him to leave. You pay them to touch. That's the key.

[Ed Larson]

And they don't come home with you.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you're right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, Barry and Janice Cox were also big fans of Hawaii and they'd often abandon their children for weeks at a time for gambling trips out to the islands. Who the fuck goes to Hawaii to gamble?

[Ed Larson]

It doesn't. I didn't even know you could gamble in Hawaii.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Apparently you can, I guess, if you.

[Ed Larson]

Go on like a cruise ship or something.

[Marcus Parks]

I think maybe in Honolulu also. There is a giant Mormon stronghold in Hawaii as well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Extremely so. And we're going to get to that later. But when Lori's parents went to Hawaii, they would leave Lori's eldest sister at home to take care of Lori and Their other siblings. As such, Barry and Janice were always somewhat on the outs with the LDS Church, subscribing to the beliefs, but never really fitting in with the establishment. For example, Barry once showed up at a church function after a particularly good trip to Hawaii and screamed, Aloha at the congregation.

[Marcus Parks]

Aloha. Shake my head. Shake my head. Aloha. Shake my head. Shake.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I want to shake his hand.

[Marcus Parks]

Come here.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I want to shake your hand.

[Marcus Parks]

Aloha. Goodbye. And alone.

[Henry Zebrowski]

When you expected everyone in this Mormon congregation to shout aloha back. But he was, of course, met with total silence.

[Marcus Parks]

Do you even understand that the national dance of Hawaii involves hips and tits, but it's still sacred to the crabs? Aloha.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, as far as the Cox children went, most LDS members from their origin point in California claim that they barely remember Barry and Janice's kids. The siblings were also thought to be strange and off putting by their peers to the point where their house was a near constant target for a good old fashioned toilet papering.

[Ed Larson]

Well, they already look like a flaming pile of.

[Marcus Parks]

That was the ultimate Mormon kid, like naughty thing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, that was the. The big rebellion was TPing.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now, when you're talking childhoods, Lori Vallows is a special case in the pantheon of true crime. There are no stories of extreme childhood abuse like you'd get with other psychop paths. Nor do you really see anything in her childhood behavior that would give any indication that she'd eventually do what she did. In fact, the Cox family was wealthy when Laurie was said to be a spoiled child who was given anything she wanted. The hitch in Laurie's childhood, however, was that there was somewhat of a subconscious battle between her parents for who would be the bigger influence. But it must be said that both influences were absolutely fucking terrible.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Lori's mother, Janice, for example, was essentially a vapid trophy wife obsessed with being beautiful and staying thin. Totally surface level stuff. And she attempted to shape Lori Valo in that same image. See, Lori was somewhat of a chubby kid. So when she was in sixth grade, her mother put her on a strict diet so Lori could be put on the cheerleader track. And when Janice Cox was the coach for Lori's childhood softball team, Janice would make fun of Lori's weight in front of the other girls. As such, by the time Lori was in high school, she had finally met her mother's expectations. She had indeed lost weight and she had indeed become a cheerleader. She kind of morphed herself into a sort of like friendly and popular Barbie doll type.

[Ed Larson]

It's fucked up because softball is like, the one sport fat people can play.

[Marcus Parks]

It's really true because I was always taught as a chubby baseball player that you got to get in front of the ball. You got to. And that's the only thing that counts. You've got to block the ball with your body. Doesn't matter if you use the glove or not. You just got to stop the ball. And that requires extra mass.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And Jackie also was a softball player, and a lot of the girls were of that persuasion as well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Sure.

[Marcus Parks]

And that's nothing to do about that. Okay. It's a sport. You gotta build up the muscle. Fat turns into muscle if you work it right. That's what my father told me. My father told me, yeah, you're fat, son, and that means you're strong naturally and you got to use it. That's. That's how he taught me.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. My father also told me I was big and I should beat up people.

[Marcus Parks]

That is literally what he said. But Janice, she did the thing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I was small and disappointing.

[Marcus Parks]

You're not like your brothers. Here's a spiral notebook. But Janice taught them all the trick of which I also thought was real. And then I found out that apparently it is a massive eating disorder where she's like, yeah, Laurie, you never have to eat anything you wanted at all. You don't have to swallow it. You just chew it, Laurie. You chew it and you spit it out.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Jesus Christ.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep, that's what she did. So she would full. And she also, because it's Mormon, you have to keep up all appearances. So again, if you're at any potluck or anything, you got to heat that plate up. So it would just be filled with chewed food, but it would be at the end of the meal.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, God, what a horrible family.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, good. I go and I leave it for the birds. Now. They like it. That's how a mother feeds its child.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But it also must be noted that even though Lori's family leaned more towards the secular in their lifestyle, Lori was also a committed Mormon who attended LDS seminary classes every morning before school, drinking in the indoctrination at every opportunity. But by Lori's senior year, she had begun bleaching her hair blonde. Lori's not a natural. Surprise, surprise. Okay.

[Ed Larson]

She does look like a natural two tone.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She began wearing skimpy clothes, and soon enough, she'd taken a non Mormon bad boy as her boyfriend.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

After graduating, Lori moved in with her high school sweetheart, and the two of them were married in Las Vegas. By 1992, after less than a year, though, Lori was divorced following allegations that her husband abused her. This made her high school beau the first of three divorces and five marriages that Lori would have over the course of her life.

[Marcus Parks]

If I ever have a second marriage, the only way to be with somebody with something like that is that they have to have, like I say, three times the marriages you've already had and several attempted homicides.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Because that's how you know somebody's got stories. Yeah. Because, you know, after a while, you're interesting. Oh, cool. Yeah. Say another one.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Lori, however, would not be the only one in her family to marry and divorce young. Her older brother Alex also married and divorced his high school sweetheart. But that wasn't the only thing Lori and Alex had in common. See, Lori and Alex's relationship was what you'd call too close. Supposedly, Lori told her junior high best friend that Alex had made sexual moves on Lori when they were kids. But by the time Lori was a little older, it seems like Laurie had decided she was into it.

[Marcus Parks]

Maybe.

[Henry Zebrowski]

From what Alex's first wife said, Alex would quite often talk about how hot his sister was.

[Marcus Parks]

It's just science. It's just hot girl science. It's not about being subjective.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. I mean, she's related to me.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. But that's the difference is that. That's. In the end, that's just what's kind of legally keeping me from being inside of her. But otherwise objectively. Yeah. Of course, I'd fuck her mouth and I'd play with her butt.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This was an addition to frequently groping Laurie, and this was with Laurie's permission. But the worst was when Alex would sometimes lift Laurie by her waist and put her in his lap. And Laurie would respond by enthusiastically bouncing up and down on her brother's crotch.

[Marcus Parks]

See, that's what Eddie missed out on, on being a single child and being an only child is that it's just so much fun to play Clydesdale with all your. Your brothers and sisters. You guys used to. Didn't you got. You used to play the earthworm game with your brothers, right? Where you used to craw between their legs, and then they'd ride you around. Right. They would do that. And then.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So you and Jackie, what. What did you guys do? You played, like, the elephant game was. That was what it was called. Like where. Where she would grab your. Your penis. Right.

[Marcus Parks]

It's not sexual. It's not sexual.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Pull it down to see how long the trunk could go.

[Marcus Parks]

It's familiar.

[Ed Larson]

And you pull them out, so they're ears.

[Marcus Parks]

We were close, okay? And some people are jealous of that scenario.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And just because, like I was an only child didn't mean I didn't have this relationship with my bishop.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I know. That's what's so nice, is that that's what the ch great for. It helps fill in those gaps. You know, the family, too is funny because I said this to you as a little allegorical thought in mind, but in the beginning, so like, Lori go there, you hear the story about how her cousin and her went on a double date. And this is before everybody really knew that she was already kind of sleeping around. She wanted to make out with her boyfriend. They went joyriding all night and they. One of the big famous stories, I guess, of her childhood was that they were. They saw a cat going across the street and her boyfriend was laughing and trying to get it. And then they ran over the cat, right. And Megan started crying and shit. And they stopped the car and double backed over it to kill it, make sure it was dead. And Lori was laughing and all of this shit. And this image hit in my mind of Laura Palmer.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Like this is lore. This is literally the beginning of this, this cycle. She's living a double life because Mormonism is forcing all people within the religion to live a double life. But actually, in the end, she was. Bob. Yes?

[Ed Larson]

Is it bad for Mormons to kill cats? Because probably. It doesn't seem like it's against their beliefs.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm gonna look it up.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean, do you really know of any religion where specifically killing cats is forbidden?

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, I don't think so.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, so go ahead, everybody.

[Marcus Parks]

Probably Jewish, because according to the super old man that looks like he's made out of frozen cum, he says that they're supposed to respect as animals.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay, all right. Okay, good.

[Marcus Parks]

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[Henry Zebrowski]

After Lori's first divorce, she moved to Austin, Texas to join her oldest brother, Adam. But while Lori got a nice Mormon job as a hair stylist, Adam had delved fully into the secular world and had gotten a job as a shock jock radio DJ using the name Bo Nasty on KHFIFI fm. Them.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, that's awesome. I mean, I really like that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Bo Nasty.

[Marcus Parks]

Bo Nasty.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Interestingly, though, Lori's oldest brother, Adam, and this is different from Alex, this is not the open mic guy.

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Adam would actually be the first member of the Cox family to be responsible for the death of another person. Because in 2007, Adam Cox was one of three morning Zoo Radio DJs who hosted a stunt infamous in the radio world called hold your Wii for a Wii.

[Marcus Parks]

Keep on holding that urine. I can't see that yellow pearl come out of the top of that little snake you got there or you're not gonna get the Wii. We all love we tennis. It's true, though.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, it's. This is absolutely true. This story is what happened.

[Ed Larson]

How the guy. What, you could die from that?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes, you can. Well, during the on Air contest, 18 people drank as much water as they could as fast as they could and tried to see who could go the longest, urinating or vomiting. And the grand prize was a brand new Nintendo Wii, which was brand new at the time and quite rare.

[Marcus Parks]

And it sold out everywhere.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. And, you know, and a lot of these people, these 18 people, a lot of these were like parents trying to get a Wii for their kids.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But drinking a large amount of water in a short period of time can cause acute water intoxication, which is a fatal condition. And one of the contestants, tragically, the runner up, man, I know, he didn't win. He didn't win. No home. And she actually died hours after she lost the contest.

[Marcus Parks]

That's what they mean by second place is first loser.

[Ed Larson]

Hold on, so did she lose because she died?

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, no, she. She lost because she wasn't able to hold the water longest and she, she.

[Ed Larson]

Peed and she still died.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She still died. Yeah, that other guy could drink a lot of water. Yeah, yeah, that other guy's like, how.

[Marcus Parks]

Fucking tough is my dick?

[Henry Zebrowski]

But before you say this is an innocent prank gone wrong, Adam Cox and the other DJs during the contest, they discussed a frat boy who had died doing this same stunt, I think like a year or two earlier. And a nurse actually called the station during the contest to tell them, if these people do this, they will die. Adam and the other DJs, however, said on air that they were well aware that these people could die.

[Marcus Parks]

You have to do it in the voice, though. Oh, we're well aware.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, we are well aware that these people could die. Here on khfif every Monday morning, we're gonna be guaranteeing that there's gonna be one person dying every single week.

[Marcus Parks]

Welcome our new get the Let out competition where we shoot you in the head and see if you survive.

[Ed Larson]

And coming tomorrow's Tuesday. And that's our poo for Tuesday.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Food for Tuesday. We're gonna see if these people can eat as much feces as human being possible. And we're gonna see just who is gonna be the champion and who's gonna win two tickets to 7 Mary 3.

[Marcus Parks]

I could have guessed it. It's Stinky Pete.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But.

[Marcus Parks]

That'S enough. You've won too many contests now.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But yeah, they said they were well aware these people could die. But no, they weren't worried about it because the contestants had all signed waivers and they even took the opportunity to make jokes about the eventual victims. Distended belly while she was obviously in distress. She like, oh wow, she looks like she's a three month pregnant over there. What do you think about that, Adam?

[Marcus Parks]

I hope that she could get some kind of water based abortion. I'm sorry, I be getting a letter from my producer here. I'm off the air.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They said one more abortion comment and you're out of here, Adam.

[Marcus Parks]

All right, well, you knew about it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You, you got the memo.

[Marcus Parks]

I guess I won't talk about what I know from about the program director.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But AD and nine other employees were fired after the death. And while Adam never faced criminal charges, he still maintains that he did nothing wrong. Adam Cox actually tried the Nuremberg defense. He said he was just following orders and he actually saw himself as the victim here. But really all this is just to prove that just about everyone in the Cox family, not just Lori, is absolutely fucking awful.

[Marcus Parks]

They are a bad, bad set.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, Adam always Adam does sort of get like, lifted up as, like, the good one.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Because he wasn't a direct murderer, if that's the bar. Just. You're the one sibling that either was. Well, Stacy. Yeah, I don't know what happened with Stacy, but it's like this whole, like, that's all you ought to be better than.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, well, he did show up to the wake with a Wii.

[Marcus Parks]

This is just so that the body has something to play while it's resting in hell.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Heaven. Heaven. Heaven.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, you know, it depends if it was Mormon or not.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's true. Now, from what one of Lori's friends from her younger days said, Lori was always unsatisfied with her life and was constantly on the lookout for something to fill the void.

[Marcus Parks]

I will not live a life I do not deserve.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It would, however, take a while for Lori to realize that her mother's plan for her life was not going to do the trick. Now, Lori certainly tried her mother's way of existing in the world for many years. A life of marriage, kids, diets, Hawaiian vacations and shops. Stop it. But in the end, Laurie found that her father lived life in a far more satisfying way, as Barry Cox lived a very fundamentalist Mormon life of arrogance, selfishness and extreme delusion.

[Marcus Parks]

Extreme Mormon activity. Extreme Mormon. I will not have a cup of coffee. I will kill your child.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, that's the problem with being too extreme in the Mormon world. No energy drink sponsorships.

[Marcus Parks]

None.

[Henry Zebrowski]

None.

[Marcus Parks]

No, actually, they can't have energy drinks. It's really just coffee.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You can't.

[Marcus Parks]

You.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So you can have caffeine and gorey and all, but it's coffee that's evil.

[Marcus Parks]

This is the thing about the.

[Ed Larson]

The Coca Cola was bad.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, you can't have sodas.

[Marcus Parks]

You can have soda. You absolutely can. You can have caffeine. I got many emails about this. You absolutely can. It is just coffee. That's how stupid it is, Marcus. That's what I mean. It's fucking arbitrary. Yeah, it's fake. The whole thing is fucking fake. As soon as you hear a series of ornate rules from a thousand years ago, it's not fucking real.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, the. The rules about coffee and tobacco, if I remember correctly from our Mormon series, I believe that came as a revelation because it was either one of Joseph Smith's wives or one of Brigham Young's wives who didn't like people drinking coffee and didn't like people smoking in her house. So she complained and complained and complained until. Yeah, until there was a revelation. It's like, ah, God Told me we can't have coffee and cigarettes in here anymore.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And it's continued to this day that that is very much the arbitrary nature of Mormon revelations.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, I thought they didn't want coffee because they just liked having sex with people while they were asleep. Is that wrong?

[Henry Zebrowski]

See, while Chad Daybell was more influenced by the near death experience, slash end time side of fringe Mormonism, Lori Valo came from a household deeply steeped in a particularly Mormon flavor of right wing extremism that informed the way Laurie's father lived his entire life. But perhaps what most influenced Laurie's idea that she could bend the world to her will and make things true just by saying them out loud was the fact that her father was also that most egotistical and fantastical of American creations. Barry Cox was a sovereign citizen.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm a private nation. I am the governor. Governor of a private continent. I am not a sovereign citizen. That is a reduction of my power.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And he has been waging an ongoing one man war against the IRS since the 80s.

[Marcus Parks]

I throw a calculator into a river every day.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And so let's spend a little bit of time on Barry's sovereign citizenship and the particularly Mormon brand of right wing extremism he subscribed to. Because it really is these two things together that explain the incredible arrogance and the magical thinking that led Lori Valo down her eventual path. Now, a sovereign citizen is basically a person who doesn't want to pay taxes, but they justify it by saying that the United States government is illegitimate. And they therefore claim that they are not subject to any government statutes unless they consent to them personally.

[Marcus Parks]

You're also leaving out the people that have expired licenses that they don't want to complete, expired registrations that they don't want to complete. People that don't want to deal with government statutes, Jenny, Any form of what they believe to be arbitrary government statutes, like the regulations that keep us safe.

[Henry Zebrowski]

On the roads, basically anything that requires an errand they don't like, they don't.

[Marcus Parks]

Want to do it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They don't want to run errands that.

[Ed Larson]

Keeps them from drinking while driving. They're not a fan of and guess what?

[Marcus Parks]

But you know what? Much like an NDA, no law can really keep you from drinking and driving. You can still express that liberty yourself with just your hands of beer in your mouth. And just remember that that's the last thing they can take from us until the police shoot you in the head.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, sovereign citizenship is actually a relatively new concept in its orig origins. Lie in a conspiracy focused white supremacist movement from the 60s called posse comitatus. Posse Comitatus began as a reaction to the civil rights movement, which they saw as government overreach and proof that America as they knew it was dead. Consequently, the movement was mostly focused on not paying state or federal taxes because they believe the government had been taken over by the Jews.

[Ed Larson]

Hello.

[Marcus Parks]

You always pointed him. I think JFK was, was president at the time that. It's fine. It's already, you know, they're all Protestants, so it's fine.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. See, this movement subscribed to the Christian identity belief that Jewish people are the descendants of Satan and that white Europeans are the real lost tribes of Israel, the ones who will one day build. Hint, hint, a new Jerusalem. If this sounds familiar, this is pretty much the same thing Chad Dabell believed. Just substitute white for Mormon and it's the same thing.

[Marcus Parks]

It's the same thing anyway.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah. The religion that didn't let black people in until 1978.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Now they always have. They'll always have one. Naomi Paragin, a really funny comedian, said that bit the other day. It's like she always lasers in on the one black person that is in every one of these scenarios and always like, how did you get there? Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And you know, it's not a coincidence that the Christian identity movement is big in Idaho, which is where Chad Dabel, of course, decided to build his own new Jerusalem. Now the Posse Comitatist movement faded in the 80s after a member got into an inevitable shootout with federal law enforcement. Happened. Happens quite a bit with these guys. But Barry Cox, good ones. But Barry Cox, Lori Valo's father, nevertheless joined this highly racist right wing movement and declared himself a sovereign citizen. That same decade, I saw a group.

[Marcus Parks]

Of people, delusional, racist, anti government. And my first thought was finally my people.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Just as Barry's daughter Lori is now defending herself in court for her second murder trial. Barry Cox took one law class and believed that he could, acting as his own attorney, validly argue in court against the United States government that he had no tax liability. Therefore he stopped paying taxes in the 1980s.

[Ed Larson]

So how'd that work out?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Badly. We're gonna get to that here in a bit.

[Marcus Parks]

Let's just say I'm gonna do. I'm. According to the. I'm looking at several of these old statutes here. Like not gonna give it. I saw this is called go fuck yourself versus suck my dick. Chapter nine through 14. I'm going to reference where I'm gonna Say you can take our tax money, good sir, and shove it in my own cock and balls. Fuck you, you fucking pieces of shit. That's all software citizens do.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, well, more punctuation.

[Marcus Parks]

You're right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, eventually Barry also became an author who released his very own ebook in 2019 called called how the American Public Can Dismantle the IRS.

[Marcus Parks]

Here's the IRS's address. Get a pickaxe. All you have to do is start from the bottom.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Eventually the top of the building will topple over. 421 indecipherable pages. Barry mixes all the modern conspiracy keywords like cabal, deep state and Satanism with passages from both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. And all this is to argue you about why paying taxes makes you. What else? Here's another keyword. A zombie.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, the zword. First time we're going to hear it today.

[Ed Larson]

Hate when people suck so much they make you root for the irs, isn't it?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, it is sad. It is sad.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. The NSA are suffering right now. They're really scared for their jobs. And honestly, it's just nice to be here as an open member of the NSA to say thanks again, guys and go Russia. We're coming for you, America.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, you've gone from shilling the straight up member.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's amazing.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm out now, dude.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's really good. I'm proud of you.

[Marcus Parks]

It feels good.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. I don't have to keep the secret anymore. It's been driving me nuts for years.

[Marcus Parks]

It's so nice to finally just be proud.

[Ed Larson]

You got your espionage badge, right?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You'll see. This fable is known as the White Horse Prophecy, and it is key to the understanding of this entire story to know that Lori Valo was raised believing that everything I'm about to say is 100% the truth. Truth. Now, the White Horse Prophecy is a sort of Mormon urban legend, a piece of apocrypha not officially recognized by the LDS Church as canon. But it is said to be a prophecy made by none other than Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. Now, the story goes that Joseph Smith revealed this prophecy to only one man. This man claimed that Smith told him that the Mormon people will eventually go to the Rocky Mountains where they will establish a society of great and mighty people. These people will collectively be be known as the White Horse of peace and safety. Joseph Smith continued the prophecy saying that the enemies of the Mormon people, I. E. The United States government, would continue to impose their will on the Mormon people by making quote, unquote obnoxious laws in order to destroy the white horse of peace and safety laws like no polygamy and no more marrying underage girls.

[Marcus Parks]

How am I supposed to get a girl? Only girls under 13 understand me.

[Ed Larson]

Mormons are so impatient. Just wait for them to be old.

[Marcus Parks]

No, that's the worst, Eddie. Because then they're old.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, and you've missed the chance to indoctrinate them and train them and mold them to be exactly what you want.

[Marcus Parks]

You also don't get to experience their sweet, precious bud of youth.

[Ed Larson]

Hey, white horse. Nay means nay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now, to protect the white horse and just. It's important to know the white horse is the Mormon people. Like, it's like imagine a Trojan horse and all the Mormon people are inside, kind of. Okay, sure, Smith said that the Mormons must continue to petition Congress constantly, but Congress will refuse to give Mormons their rights and will instead govern them from the outside. Now, this might sound like the Mormons wanted to break away from the United States.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, Marcus.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But they actually very much want to be a part of our country. They kind of have a have your cake and eat it too type of situation going on.

[Marcus Parks]

I think they want to own the bakery, Marcus.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes, I think so, too. Basically, the Mormons were hiding behind the concept of religious freedom in order to do whatever they wanted to do. Mormons are therefore big proponents of the Constitution because the freedom of religion clause in the First Amendment works as a sort of loophole for all the nefarious.

[Marcus Parks]

They get up to, according to them, thinking that just be. If you make it a religious right, then it should be protected by those laws. So you could make having a child bride a religious right. You could make killing people because they're unsavable a right. You can make these things because. And then their real goal, in the end, let's face it, their real goal is total subjugation of all of us and a complete theocracy of the United States of America. But we're not there yet. Mainly just because we're just. We. Everybody really likes tits. And I really think that's the main thing keeping us from a full theocracy is that we really like tits and we like pussy and we like dicks and we like having a good time. We like Budweiser commercials. Like, we like it too much. And that's the problem. That's what the Mormons don't understand.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, and I also think that the Mormons, their goal for the rest of us is not subjugation, but straight up murder. Oh, they Very much. Just like all of us to be dead.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, the Mormon idea is they'll just close their eyes and have a peaceful sleep and wake up and we'll be gone and not have to really deal with the fact that we all were murdered by God.

[Ed Larson]

So they're so lazy, they won't even kill us themselves.

[Marcus Parks]

So they do. That's why we have Lori Valo and Chad Dabel. That's a change. Be the change you want to see.

[Ed Larson]

But they just kill their own.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, well, that was a beginning. That was a start.

[Marcus Parks]

They stopped being their own because they became zombies.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now, according to the White Horse Prophecy, the Mormons would live to see a day sometime in the future in which the Constitution would be nearly destroyed that it would, quote, hang like a thread as fine as silk fiber. And by the way, hanging by a thread, that's a Mormon dog whistle. If you hear someone say this country is hanging by a thread, that usually means they're a follower of the White Horse prophecy. It's kind of a little code so people know what you're talking about. Glenn Beck used to say it all the time. Glenn Beck, big Mormon.

[Marcus Parks]

It's really. It's true. Like when you click these things, it's completely real. All of these are like the hanging by a thread thing. You think that that's silly until you start to hear prophets say it. Yeah, they talk about it. They use it as a term.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We had senators say it. Orrin Hatch used to say it. Senator Orrin Hatch out of Utah used to say hanging by a thread all the time.

[Ed Larson]

See, when I hear something's hanging by a thread, my instinct is to like.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Help it, you know.

[Marcus Parks]

No, the way they think to help it is to tear the thread.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, once the Constitution. Well, kind of sort of.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I mean, naturally, yeah, you know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Well, once the Constitution is quote, hanging by a thread, that would be a signal for the Mormons, AKA the White Horse of peace and safety, to rise up and save the United States from the rest of us sinners.

[Marcus Parks]

Save the United States.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Most importantly though, the rising up of the White Horse. You can't do air quotes on fucking radio.

[Marcus Parks]

Me.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The majority of the people who consume the show are listening to it in all audio form only format.

[Marcus Parks]

This is for me.

[Ed Larson]

If you want to know what Henry's air quoting, please join the Patreon for video content.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Video episodes of every single episode of last podcast on the left. But most importantly though, the rising up of the White Horse would be a sign that Armageddon was imminent. As the White Horse is. What else but a direct reference to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse from the Book of Revelation. Behold a pale horse and all that. But that's all to say that the White Horse Prophecy directly ties the policies of the United States government to the end of the world. And it makes the Mormons the central characters in both the end times and in the story of America at large.

[Marcus Parks]

And the goal is to bring the end of the world here. They want it. They're really excited for it because the tribulations are going to kill all of us. And then they get to go live in their Mormon paradise.

[Ed Larson]

If the Four Horsemen ever came to America, they'd have to race in the Kentucky Derby.

[Marcus Parks]

That would be. What a delight. What a get.

[Ed Larson]

And it's Pestilence by a nose. Yeah, and the nose has fallen off. Enjoy your mint, Jules. Everybody will be your last one.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now, Lori Valow grew up believing that the White Horse Prophecy was totally real. And that belief only got stronger throughout her life. Life. See, the White Horse Prophecy creates a sort of alternate universe for Mormonism's more fringe members to live within a world where Mormons are exceptional beings who sort of, but don't really have to live by the same rules as the rest of us. In addition to the White Horse Prophecy, Lori Vallow was also raised with the narcissistic delusion of sovereign citizenship. A world of magical thinking where she can live by her own rules and beliefs simply by stubbornly forging it ahead. This is also a world of right wing extremism, because while the followers of the White Horse Prophecy say they want to protect the Constitution, it's really the amendments that they have a big problem.

[Marcus Parks]

With, which is like half the Constitution.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a lot of it for them. The abolition of slavery, the implementation of federal income tax, and giving the women the right to vote, those were the real assaults on the Constitution. And the less conservative America gets, the more these people freak out in increasingly destructive and dangerous ways, like, say, I don't know, know, killing your own children.

[Marcus Parks]

But hey, the killing of their own children was supposed to be for all of our good Marcus.

[Ed Larson]

And that was in the original Constitution, right?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Kill a child. Yeah, if you want to vote, kill a child. That's a great way to do it. I feel like the only way you should be able to vote is if you've received an abortion. I think those are the only people who should vote.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

All right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I thought you meant, like, you had to bring like a child's corpse to the polling Booth, if you can.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, please. Like that's going to be one of the big. That's going to be one of the big new charts changes.

[Ed Larson]

No, I've paid for an abortion that had nothing to do with me. Does that make. I can vote?

[Marcus Parks]

Was it for fun?

[Ed Larson]

No, it was for.

[Marcus Parks]

What, you just hang out outside of the clinic? Is that the. Is this how you met Julie? Is this how you meet women?

[Ed Larson]

Back in the day, one of my cooks knocked up a waitress and I needed them both at work.

[Marcus Parks]

You're disgusting. You're literally Tom Harrison. Like, that is a. That's disgusting. Eddie. You did it for the most evil reason. That's like William Randolph Hearst hell.

[Ed Larson]

Get. Get it down. Be here by 4:30.

[Marcus Parks]

Wrap it up.

[Ed Larson]

All right.

[Marcus Parks]

There's no time for crying. All right, we'll all once just to make. We'll get past this. So just listen to Ben Fold's brick one time just for the fake. We'll get through this once I put.

[Ed Larson]

The petty in petty cash.

[Marcus Parks]

Also, Barry Cox believed in the concept of the lower 95. Yeah, that was a thing that he used to say all the time.

[Ed Larson]

What's that mean?

[Marcus Parks]

So he said that they were in the top percent of humankind.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The whole Cox family. The whole Cox family. Lori, Adam, Alex, all of them.

[Marcus Parks]

They were better than everybody. They were powerful. They were hotter, more fashionable. They were better than everybody.

[Ed Larson]

That's why Barry only slept with them.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, exactly. Why would you. Why would you go out and get steak when you have hamburger at home? He literally is a he. But he would say that all the time. Anybody did something dumb in front of him, it was always be like, that's the lower 95 for you. That was what he'd say. And so he kind of also this idea that there are expendables here.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But again, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves and let's rejoin Lori valo in the mid-90s in Austin, Texas. Now, within a few years, Lori had gotten together with the man who would become her second husband. And In April of 1996, she gave birth to her first son, Colby. As it was with her first husband, Lori also claimed that her second was abusive, saying that he physically and drunkenly assaulted her multiple times, even going so far as to threaten to kill her when she was pregnant, which he very well may have. But in the end, Lori's second marriage was only a little longer than the first, and she was divorced again by 1998. Lori, however, wasn't the only person in the Cox family having Troubles as it seems like the Coxes were in a near constant state of crisis throughout the mid to late 90s.

[Marcus Parks]

They love drama.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

The Coxes love drama and everybody around them. I also feel like I'm just going to go out and. A big old blanket statement. Mormons love drama.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Because their lives are fucking boring.

[Ed Larson]

They have a very popular reality show.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Very, very fucking true. Yeah. The easiest way to inject drama into your life is polygamy and fudgeing.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Just literally. And these guys all would fuck inner these. The ward drama sounds so fucking exhausting and so stupid. And the way that they talk about their wards as if they were mystically placed in Rexbur. Oh, you were mystically placed in Clarkston, Idaho. The only people that were mystically placed in the Clarks in Idaho were the fucking robins. Like, literally the birds. You are not. You just were born there.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And then they're like, well, it's our ward, so we have to stay here. And so they all have to interfight and take it super seriously. And everybody's up their own ass.

[Ed Larson]

Now. Where do the Mormons stand on divorce?

[Marcus Parks]

Cannot be divorced. That's why they kill so many of their wives. That's why they kill them.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Because the stakes are so high. Those are the things to remember is that. That's also what's horrible, is that your entire family lives in the ward. That's where your home is. It's the only thing you've ever known. The religious family that you've surrounded by, that's the only group you've ever known. And every single one of these sins, every single one of them involves some form of excommunication slash extreme punishment slash extreme way to get your penance. I read a book called the Miracle of Forgiveness, which is a horrendous book, which is the one of.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But let's not get too far off on that.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, sorry. Now, basically, they say the homosexuality is bestiality. And it's just a black mark on the whole. It's. They're the worst.

[Ed Larson]

Well, you are an animal.

[Marcus Parks]

Tear you up. Excuse me. Let me get my lube. I just have my anal jelly here waiting for me anytime I need it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Swiss Navy, Bram with clove oil.

[Marcus Parks]

There's nothing better. And there's nothing slipperier than a sailor from Switzerland. Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

You want to poke some holes in a man, join the Swiss Navy.

[Marcus Parks]

We didn't get paid for this. No, someone just sent this in the mail.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, someone sent us a big extra large bottle of Swiss Navy anal lube.

[Ed Larson]

Yes, they sent it in the mail. M A L E. Oh, yeah. My Coop Sleep Good pillow. Feeling nice. Oh, yeah. This almost feels illegal the way I'm grabbing this pillow. And it's so cool and nice and it's got signature adjustability. And I can and add remove from the pillow to create extra loft that supports my body's natural neck and spinal alignment. Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Ooh, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Man, I can't wait to sleep. Take Coop's sleep quiz to find out your perfect pillow.

[Marcus Parks]

All right.

[Ed Larson]

Maybe it's the original adjustable pillow cutout designed for side sleepers. Or maybe it's the Eden Cool plus adjustable pillow. Classic shape. A game changer for hot sleepers. That's me. I run hot like a furnace. You know, I'm like a big old heat and rock. But luckily, I'm married to a lizard woman and she loves me. And thank you, Coop, for keeping me cool and keeping my hot body cool. All right. Eating Cool plus adjustable pillow. Yes, thank you. Customize your sleep and take care of yourself because if you don't sleep, you're going to wake up mad. You're going to be mad about it. You're going to be a jerk to everybody. No one likes a sleepless jerk. So visit coopsleepgoods.com left to get 20% off your first order. That's C O O P sleepgoods.com left left. I feel so.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now streaming on Hulu.

[Ed Larson]

It's a serial killer case.

[Marcus Parks]

He's the DMer you've never heard of.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I definitely felt the presence of evil, but did he act alone now? Finally, not many people live to tell about their involvement with the serial killer. The one man who helped break the case. Never before a face to face interview with the camera. Why now?

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, ask you. What do you think? Am I the evil culprit?

[Henry Zebrowski]

The accomplice?

[Ed Larson]

I'd like to know how the audience views me.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The Fox Hollow murders. Playground of a serial killer.

[Marcus Parks]

Now streaming on Hulu.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Focus Features presents Black Bag. Starring Cate Blanchette, Michael Fassbender and directed by Steven Soderbergh. I can feel when you're watching me. I like it. It's the perfect marriage of love and deception.

[Marcus Parks]

I watch.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I assume she watches me.

[Marcus Parks]

There's a traitor in the house.

[Ed Larson]

Find the leak.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Black Bag is the most anticipated espionage thriller of the year. Who's the suspect? Your wife? Would you kill for me? Black bag weighted R under 17 out of Mid without parent. Only in theaters March 14 with special engagements in Dolby. Let's get into some of the dramas of the Cox family in the mid late 90s. First, Lori's brother Alex got excommunicated from the LDS Church after his ex wife made claims of sexual promiscuity, which put Alex on the counts with the Mormon establishment for good. And I think how Lori Valo and Alex got around this, correct me if I'm wrong, how they got around divorce is that until Chad Daybell, every man that Lori Valo married was a non Mormon. Yeah, like they were all, they all, not all of them did. Most of them converted, but not all. So I think because she was not married within the church and was not like sealed within the church to another, like lifelong mourn Mormon. There's all kinds of loopholes and you know, ways around it. And it's not like, you know, they're in a sort of like FLDS community, like a fundamentalist community where, you know, they could be murdered for doing something like divorce. They're kind of living with one foot in the secular world and one foot in the Mormon world.

[Ed Larson]

Well, so there's no Mormon chapels in Vegas?

[Marcus Parks]

There is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Really?

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah. There must be a couple in Nevada. Yeah, there's definitely a temple somewhere.

[Ed Larson]

A temple? I'm saying, like an all night wedding chapel.

[Marcus Parks]

They don't do it like that. No, they don't do it like. I mean it's. I, I wish it'd be fun.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They did get married in Vegas twice.

[Marcus Parks]

She's. I also feel like with Lori specifically see Mormons again, they're so obsessed with appearance and they're so obsessed with it that like, I think sometimes they let people slide that are really quote unquote, good looking. Mormons could be.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well around the same time that Alex was excommunicated, Lori's older sister Stacy was also going through a divorce in addition to a custody battle with her husband. Husband and a rapidly deteriorating mental state. And that mental state was incurred by growing up in what her husband called the psychological hornet's nest that was the Cox family. Well, concerning Stacy Cox. Because of Janice's constant fat shaming of her children, Stacy developed an eating disorder and had declared after having her only child that all food was poison. As a result of Stacy's delusion and the lifestyle that went with it, her daughter's teeth grew in without enamel because of a lack of calcium. And her husband would be given custody because of Stacy's instability and neglect. But as we'll see time and again, the Cox family does not take kindly to one of their own being crossed at One point during the breakup, Barry Cox showed up at Stacy's husband's place of work. He slammed him against a wall, screamed Mormon scripture into his face, and stuffed divorce papers down his shirt. The whole Stacy saga only ended when Stacy fell into a coma and died in May of 1998 at the age of 31 after years of being in and out of the hospital because of her eating disorder and because of complications from one diabetes, type 1 diabetes.

[Ed Larson]

You need food.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yes.

[Ed Larson]

A major part of is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah. It's the main part.

[Marcus Parks]

It's very dangerous. And there's a lot of talk here of why was Barry Cox so angry.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Part of the reason the husband.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Part of the reason why is it seems is that during the divorce proceedings they he the her ex husband wanted full custody of the kids because he says, I don't want my kids to be anywhere near the Cox family. Which seems to point some truth to the fact that Steve Stacy might have floated that Barry Cox molested her as a young girl. And that might have gone through the entire family. And Barry Cox flipped out because this man was releasing all of these family secrets in discovery, which is what you have to go through. And all these divorce and custody hearings. So everything that is private that mentions any of these things would have to come to public to literally public record. Anybody could look it up. So later on, they are post apart divorced. There is now this story that is floating around that Barry Cox, Janice Cox, the other siblings, but Alex run a vacation Hawaii. Stacy is not feeling well. She is not also mentally not feeling well. Alex Cox has a meet with Lori Valo's cousin Megan. They haven't seen each other a bunch of years. Randomly, Alex Cox calls her and says, hey, let's hang out tonight. Which is what they used to do all the time. They used to get takeout and watch rented movies. Is it normally Alex Cox Cox and Marcus has told me to not do this. See, Alex Cox sense of humor was a very similar to a time period that we went through in the 2010s.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And he loved doing Asian accents and Hispanic accents, like all the kind of stuff. And she said it used to be really bad to watch movies with it because that's all he do throughout the movies. That he'd pick out a different race of somebody in the movie and he'd act him out. Right. He'd do all these fun things.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Would be far better if you weren't giggling through all of this.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm just. It was bad. It's bad, right?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But this time he was oddly quiet. And he said, I got this weird email from Stacy. She said, I took a big shot and I went to sleep. And then she was like, what do you mean? He's like, let's go check it out. So they found Stacy's dead body. And it seems really fucking suspicious that he knew over anybody else. And then she was sick for days. The family never came. They, she was on, quote unquote on her deathbed and the family just never came.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, they stayed in Hawaii on vacation.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, it's very suspicious now.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Soon after Stacy's death, the government finally came for Barry Cox. After years of so called paper terrorism in which sovereign citizens like Barry clog up the courts with frivolous lawsuits and endless paperwork, Barry was finally sentenced to a year in prison for tax evasion and was ordered to pay a quarter million in back taxes.

[Ed Larson]

I do not have this money.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Here is what happens if I do not have the money available at any point in my natural life.

[Marcus Parks]

I would like to have anybody who's ever not said that to a creditor to do it once. It's really fun. You've done it. You taught me, like sometimes you just.

[Ed Larson]

I used to pick it up and.

[Marcus Parks]

Eventually be like, I have nothing. I remember one time talking to a credit card, like, debtor. And I was like, so if I, if I pay you, I can't pay my rent or buy food, but then I just have paid you. And they were like, exactly. And I was like, conversation's over.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Laurie, however, was still attempting to live the life of her mother's world, because at 27 years old, Laurie met and married her third husband, a man 16 years her senior named Joe Ryan, who converted to Mormonism for Laurie. Soon after his conversion, Laurie was pregnant again, and she gave birth to her daughter Tylee in 2002. Tylee, of course, would be one of the two children that Lori would one day come to murder. Now, Lori's third husband, Joe Ryan, was said to be quick to anger, and the marriage fell apart fast. He was again abusive. But instead of leaving her husband like she did the other two, Laurie began to inch closer into the world of her father. She threw herself into Mormonism completely and got real weird, weird with it real fast. During the early 2000s, Lori could be found dancing by herself in an empty room filled with mirrors while listening to religious music, which Lori said was her form of meditation and her way of getting closer to God. Now that's a, that's a Laura Palmer scene right there. If I ever heard one oh, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Her just like, oh, Jesus, got your hands on my teeth. Oh, Jesus, got your finger in my. My.

[Ed Larson]

It's too bad Instagram Live wasn't around yet.

[Marcus Parks]

Do you think Question Tik Tok saves.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The kids or gets them to the grave faster?

[Marcus Parks]

What do you think? Does it.

[Ed Larson]

Podcasting certainly didn't help.

[Marcus Parks]

No, Accelerated the whole thing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, podcasting made it way worse. No, I think. I think we're talking about a zero sum thing here. I don't think TikTok helps or hurts.

[Marcus Parks]

But the thing about Tik Tok, you could see that she's hot.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, Paris.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But she's not hot.

[Ed Larson]

She's not that hot. You keep calling her so hot.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, it's just cuz it's in Idaho and she's standing next to Chad Daybell.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah. Anyone looks hot when you're standing next to an uncooked pancake.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Like a dollop of a man. He is. He's a dop. Well, even stranger than the dancing was Lori's increasingly bizarre beliefs about the dead, such as her belief that her daughter Tyler was the reincarnation of Lori's recently deceased sister, Stacy. Laurie also began edging into the more esoteric side of Mormonism, Daybell territory, which he claimed that spirits from beyond the veil were giving her daily instructions on how to live every aspect of her life. Now, this really goes to show you, you never really know what the people you see on TV are thinking.

[Marcus Parks]

You never do.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because it was around this time that Lori Valow appeared as a contestant on Wheel of Fortune. She placed second and won over $17,000. She solved one puzzle named four characters on the Love Boat.

[Marcus Parks]

Captain Gilligan. Mr. Pete.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, Mr. Pete.

[Marcus Parks]

Who's the guy that checks vaginas to see if they've been disturbed?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, Snapper Jake.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, Snapper Jake. Ms. God, he's great. God, he was great.

[Ed Larson]

I wonder if she got along with Vanna Whitehorse.

[Marcus Parks]

Whoa, that's a good burlesque name.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, you joke about that, but I would imagine that she saw some sort of sign in that. And so in V. White White's name, you know, like she probably did. These people see signs and everything. They see their own worldview reflected back to them. And, you know, Vanna White just has to deal with it when she goes and shakes her hand.

[Ed Larson]

Do you think that anyone ever met Pat Sajak? And he was like, hi, I'm Pat Sajak. And then they would be like, Jack.

[Marcus Parks]

And then he decks him in the face. Don't you Fucking disrespect me, all right? I do. People come to me with nothing. You spin a wheel and walk away. Millionaires.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. That's a little known fact about patience. Pat Sajak, massive bare knuckle boxer.

[Marcus Parks]

Those like Irish guys.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So he got the job. Now it seems like Lori was enjoying the attention she was getting as a few months after being on Wheel, she entered the Miss Hayes County Beauty Pageant and she won, which made her eligible for the Miss Texas pageant.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

When Lori was interviewed by the judges, though, she made a statement that at the time was somewhat innocent, but in hindsight is fucking chilling. When Lori Valo was asked what made her tick, she said, quote, being a.

[Marcus Parks]

Good mom is very important to me, and a good wife and a good worker. Being all those things together is not easy. So basically, I'm a ticking time bomb.

[Ed Larson]

I feel like there's so many game show contestants that have killed somebody. We talked about one like a month ago.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah. A few weeks ago.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Newly went murders.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It happens a fair amount. Yeah. I mean, it's just you take any sample from anything and there's going to be a fair amount of murderers in it. Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

But plumbers.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Rob, I don't know. He won't even give it up.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, of course, being a ticking time bomb, that's not a winning answer for the Miss Texas patch.

[Marcus Parks]

No. It's frightening.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Now, because of the frequent physical abuse and some alleged sexual abuse committed by Lori's third husband, Lori filed for divorce from Joe Ryan in August of 2004 and engaged in a lengthy custody battle for her daughter Tyler. Now, Lori's son Colby did say years later, he said it very clearly in the Netflix documentary, that Joe Ryan was sexually abusive and physically abusive. But Lori Valo took these allegations to the next level during the custody fight, telling investigators that she would rather kill her children than give Ryan custody. But after multiple investigations found that not only had there been no sexual abuse, but that Lori had been coaching her kids to tell abuse stories, it was decreed that Joe and Lori share custody of Tyler when the two of them were finally divorced in 2005.

[Marcus Parks]

There is a very disturbing like line through which is, obviously, we believe everybody. You want to believe people when they say they're getting abused. Right. But Lori Valo, you can't take away the end result of all this, away from the way she treated people her whole life.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

She used people as tools and she really did, I want to say, get a kick out of ruining people's lives. She did it several times. It is not just within this context. She used to lie. I guess that's what it is. I'm steeped in all the other side stories about Laurie. You start to see this whole picture that she really would turn people against each other all the time and she'd lie all the time. She was probably close to a pathological liar. Everybody got a different story about what she was doing and who did what and what at all times. So at some point, point it's, you're, I think that Lori is, I, I think bad things happen to her, but I also think she's massively full of. So I think that you just, it throws doubt on all the stuff that she talks about.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, I think, I mean, if you talk to, to Colby Ryan.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Like, like he's not a nice man.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. He said, he said clearly, like he was physically abusive. He also said he was sexually abusive. So I, I, I think she had a pattern. Like, I think she definitely like, did, did have like three abusive men like in a row. But her fourth husband, Charles Valo, I don't know if she always made up stories about all these guys because she, you know, didn't do that with Charles. She did though, but not in the abuse way.

[Marcus Parks]

She did. She said that he molested Tyler.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Like, did she say that?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. He throws it around. She throwed it. She kept throwing it around. And it's just like when you drop it three times.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Like that's when it just gets to a point where it, like now you're, you're trying to hurt.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's like a weapon. So like weaponizing.

[Marcus Parks]

You're weaponizing something. I don't know what it is, but you're doing something. I don't know what the it is. And again, if she didn't kill her kids, it'd be different.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Colby seems on the level though, after watching the dog.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He does, yeah, he does seem on the level. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

He has a whole podcast where he talks about this.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Well, not too long after her divorce, Lori filed for bankruptcy, owing three quarters of a million dollars to creditors, including, like, father, la, like daughter, a hundred grand in back taxes.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow.

[Ed Larson]

Proud.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All that was fixed, however, when Lori met her fourth husband, the long suffering Charles Valow. At 49 years old, Charles was another older man. As such, he already had two sons of his own and had just divorced from his first wife when he met Lori. Described as tall and strikingly handsome, Charles Valo seemed to just be, you know, normal dude, middle of the road, road guy. A financial planner, earned about two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year. But that big salary meant that Lori had solved her debt problems. And the two of them frequently joked about her being a gold digger. Now I could see how people could make that assumption because Lori and Charles were married within just a few months of meeting each other. They like, met in the fall of 2005, married in the spring of 2006. By then, Lori Valo had her four fourth husband, whom she married in her second Vegas wedding.

[Ed Larson]

The fourth wedding is a Reno wedding.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Fourth wedding's Provo wedding.

[Marcus Parks]

First wedding's always got to be big deal, obviously. Second wedding, you should probably kind of keep quiet about it. I think the second wedding is the quietest one. Third wedding is secretly that's done inside of a. One of those places where you stop and you just get the form.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And then I think four fourth, you could do it again. Big being like, no, this one.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I think the third one is the one when you make the big statement. I think that the, the third one has to be bigger than the first one because you gotta prove that you love that you really love this one more than the other two.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. The fourth one's circus. Circus, that is.

[Marcus Parks]

You're right, actually. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I can't wait till my third.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's officiated by a chimp.

[Marcus Parks]

How fun is this? How nice is this? You got the banana. You got the banana. Was a bastard.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now Charles, Val's ex wife more or less said that Charles could be a bit of a bastard. But in the ex wife's view, Lori was just as unstable.

[Marcus Parks]

It's still an ex wife's point of view. Unfortunately, yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The ex wife never felt safe having her two sons around Lori and claimed that Lori would drug her kids with Nyquil and sleeping pills just so she wouldn't have to deal with them. Even so, Lori and Charles were exactly what each other wanted. Charles Valow wanted a young trip trophy wife. And as a 32 year old beauty queen, Lori fit the bill. Charles meanwhile, paid for Lori to go to Hawaii whenever she wanted. And she finally had a daddy who would succumb to her every whim.

[Marcus Parks]

Okay, you just made it jump. You know, you said it too, like you noticed what you just said. What, the idea that she'd make it a habit to drug the kids with Nyquil and sleeping pills.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And how do you think they fucking Tylee and JJ went down in the beginning? I think that you could immediately see a line through and you know, like.

[Henry Zebrowski]

A Casey Anthony's Annie the nanny type thing.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And I also think that their separation. I wouldn't even call him gold diggers because he's handsome. If he was fused big and fat, it's different. Charles Val was handsome.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh no, I don't think Lori Valo was necessarily a gold digger. I think she just liked someone to take care of her. And Charles Valo, by all accounts, do it by Charles Val by all accounts, like truly loved Lori Valo. I mean, unfortunately, he truly loved Lori Valo and he was, you know, more or less a fine man. You know, like, yeah, he wasn't like the best guy but you know, he was all right.

[Marcus Parks]

He was just a guy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He was just a guy. Like that's. I think at the end of the day, that's what Charles Velo. Charles Velo was just some guy.

[Marcus Parks]

And as much as dudes love bomb, women love bomb too. Woman could go in there cuz like you'd be surprised. A well placed piece of lingerie in a, in a 20 minute blowjob can do to a man's psyche. It's like, I know it's ridiculous, but it really can break a man down.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now life was good for Lori and Charles Valow even enthusiastically converted to the LDS church. But while Lori could have just settled into her new life, it seems like she was addicted to the drama. She very much had it out for her ex husband, Joe ryan. And in 2006, she made an official report that Ryan had sexually abused her children. Now again, detectives and social workers found no evidence of molestation. And social worker reports noted that Lori appeared to be coaching Tyler to make accusations. But that was not the only thing the social workers noticed. Lori Valo was quite obviously feeding her children fanatical Mormon dogma in addition to telling them stories about ghosts being real. And she even told government officials that she consulted with a dead lawyer about her custody case when the spirit came to visit her in the night.

[Marcus Parks]

It's me, your representation, Abraham Lincoln, here to tell you, don't go out to see a play. That's my first piece of advice. My second piece of advice is suck him while you got him, cuz he's gay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes, I know, I know. Well aware.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I'm sorry. No, but also, this is not really fringe Mormon Mormon dogma, man. You know, like I did not realize how.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, I said fanatical. I did not say fringe.

[Marcus Parks]

Is that crazy? I did not know that they actually literally believed in reincarnation.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, it's the reincarnation thing. I looked this up and It's a gray area where the church doesn't officially say that you are reincarnated. But you can take the idea of premortality, which we're going to talk about premortality a little bit later, but you can take this Mormon idea that you existed before you were born, that you existed in the presence of the Heavenly Father before you were born, and you return to the Heavenly Father. Father. And so some of these things can be interpreted by saying that you kind of go back and forth between Earth and Heavenly Father, even though it doesn't clearly say that. That's certainly how Chad Daybell interpreted it, and that's definitely how Lori Valo interpreted it.

[Ed Larson]

So they certainly don't believe that you just become dirt.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, no, no, no.

[Marcus Parks]

Because that would be a waste.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, there's a lot of it, but there's just. With Mormonism, there's just a million ways.

[Marcus Parks]

To interpret everything, and every ward's different.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, but just like it happened when Barry Cox assaulted Stacy Cox's husband, there was something about the Cox family that inspired violence when one of them was seemingly threatened. And it was around this time that Laurie's brother Alex stepped into the ring. But while Alex was definitely a psychopath, he was also an absolutely ridiculous person. See Radio DJ Adam Cox was not the only member of the family to try his hand at Entertainment. By 2007, Alex Cox was living in Phoenix, Arizona, working a day job installing Porta Potties. But at night, he was also one of the worst open mic standup comedians in town.

[Marcus Parks]

God in Phoenix. Imagine the worst open mic stand up in Phoenix.

[Henry Zebrowski]

As per the memory of one of Alex's friends back in Phoenix, Alex was a bit of an impressionist. Ran the gamut of impressions, both baffling and hacky.

[Marcus Parks]

Not me.

[Henry Zebrowski]

From cartoon characters like Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck and Homer Simpson to movie icons like Hannibal lecter and, weirdly, Mrs. Doubtfire.

[Marcus Parks]

And everyone knows the best stand up sets are always repeated phrases for movies you've seen.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

And doing TV shows, that's the way to do it. Because then people go, oh, yeah, yeah, I remember that. Drive By Fruiting.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah, baby.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, baby. She's a mind baby, baby.

[Marcus Parks]

That's Holden's bit. All right. Don't steal that. That's holding.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Stolen. Can't steal the stealing. But Alex's friend in Phoenix also said that Alex was always a little off mentally and very easy to manipulate. Particularly this friend said that Alex was easily manipulated by his sister Lori.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

In a display that was described as both awkward and Weird. This friend said that Lori would parade around Alex in bikini, obviously trying to titillate him.

[Marcus Parks]

It's just nice to see all you other brothers look around. You don't got a sister built like that. That's what I like. I look at her and sounding around knowing that she's representing me everywhere I go. My hot big titted sister Alex does.

[Ed Larson]

This thong right up my ass.

[Marcus Parks]

Actually, let me adjust it, let me adjust it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now, as I mentioned earlier, Alex would be directly responsible for many of the deaths that occurred around Chad Dabel and Lori Valley Orbit. But it seems like Lori had been going to Alex to do her dirty work for decades.

[Marcus Parks]

Did you ever hear the story about him getting the head injury?

[Henry Zebrowski]

No.

[Marcus Parks]

Big cat's just obvious.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Is it short?

[Marcus Parks]

No, it's just he had a car accident and he came back never the same. That's what they all said. And it was that there was a thing in here where he was in a coma for two days after a car accident. And he came out and he was just a shell of himself.

[Ed Larson]

So after his nde, he didn't become a God?

[Marcus Parks]

No, unfortunately he wasn't shown the preview. Rest of the world by God.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Nope. Well, in 2007, Lori Valo manipulated her brother into driving from Phoenix to Austin to attack her ex husband, Joe Ryan. Although it's said that what Lori originally had planned was far more sinister. See, Lori had been firing up Alex for months by telling him that Joe Ryan had been molesting her children. So Alex became obsessed with taking vengeance without Lori ever having to convince him to actually do it. So after Joe had a supervised visit with Tyler at a facility one day, Alex Cox suddenly appeared before Joe in a parking lot. As Joe was walking to his car, Alex began yelling, then pulled out a taser and buried it deep into Joe's chest as a sharp crackle filled the air. After being tased, Joe fell to the ground, but quickly got up and started running and calling for help while Alex got in his Pontiac Grand Prix and drove away. But this had not been the plan. Lori Valo and her daughter Tylee were actually watching the whole thing unfold from Alex's car because Laurie had orchestrated the entire attack. According to Adam Cox, AKA DJ Bo Nasty, the plan was to kill Joe Ryan that day by tasing him, throwing him in the trunk of the Pontiac, driving him out to a field, shooting him and burying him. What is it about Pontiacs and murderers? Casey Anthony also with the Pontiac Sunfire.

[Marcus Parks]

I just think it's got a fun look. It's Got a vibe. It's kind of like. It's vibey.

[Ed Larson]

Flirting trunk.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. In the end, though, Joe still came away from the incident with a broken wrist and severe chest pains. The tasing caused him to suffer heart problems for the rest of his life. And he soon after developed a nasty drinking problem to deal with the horrible shambles that his life had become.

[Marcus Parks]

Now this is just. It's fascinating that she watched the whole thing and she kind of orchestrated it. I. I'm so jealous of this relationship. I want to commit a crime with Jackie. I want to commit a crime with my sister.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I bet. I bet you guys have committed like five felonies together already. You don't even know it. In college. Yeah. In Tallahassee.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, I want to kill my sister. It's fun to do. Look how close they were. They were fixing each other's underwear.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Henry was innocent in college. Jackie not so much.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, she was the one that did the dirty things. I was making art, you know, it was probably easy.

[Ed Larson]

So if Barry Cox most likely molested all these kids, it was probably really easy for her to convince Adam. Or was it Alex.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Alex.

[Marcus Parks]

To Alex.

[Ed Larson]

To go after this guy for molesting her kids.

[Marcus Parks]

They had a very open sexual relationship. Barry Cox and Janice Cox used to talk about their. With their kids. The kids used to repeat it to their. The rest of the family as a. Funny little jokes. They all were always inappropriately touching each other as a family. And so it came from the up top.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And then Alex also said in his standup that he did it in the nuts, not in the chest.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Don't exaggerate.

[Marcus Parks]

What are you talking about? Every stand up says like, you know, I was on my way to the veterinarian today. It's never real. Standups are lying to you guys.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, I mean, you know, only, you know, I mean, Hassan Minaj is the truthful man.

[Marcus Parks]

Got him.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now later, Laurie admitted that she had searched the Book of Mormon for some justification to kill her ex husband without guilt or retribution from God. And she believed that she'd found it in a compilation of Joseph Smith revelations called Doctrine and Covenants.

[Marcus Parks]

Was that recorded live? Is that a bootleg?

[Ed Larson]

It was in the index.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Doctrine and Covenants live at Red Rocks. Yeah. The passage said, said quote, and then.

[Marcus Parks]

If he shall come upon you or your children or your children's children into the third and fourth generation, I have delivered thine enemy into thine hands.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This line, Lori Valo believed was the Book of Mormon, telling her that it was not only Morally fine to murder her ex husband, but religiously sound as well.

[Marcus Parks]

And it's written down.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Now, Alex Cox was naturally arrested for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon for attacking Joe Ryan. He was given a paltry sentence of 90 days. But even that, Alex thought, was too harsh. He thought that he should have been hailed as a hero. And he even worked his nearly fatal assault into a bit for his standup comedy routine.

[Marcus Parks]

You got to write what you know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Sure.

[Marcus Parks]

You know what I mean. Vile, massively. Almost kill. He should have wrote all about what it was like to almost kill your sister. There's some funny in that, I bet. Oh, man, he must have missed at least eight minutes.

[Ed Larson]

God, I wish he was on the moth.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a terrible routine. Like, it's out there, you know, you can see it. But yeah, it's just him warbling on about, I thought I was going to get a medal. Yeah. Apparently it's a felony in Texas to tase a pedophile.

[Ed Larson]

I am surprised that it is.

[Marcus Parks]

Do you want to play it at all? Do you want to play any stand up?

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, I don't want to give him a single bit of air.

[Marcus Parks]

I, I at least not getting paid for it now.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, he's not. Now, this incident seemed to bring Laurie and her brother Alex even closer because soon after, Laurie convinced her husband Charles to move the whole family to a suburb of Phoenix, just a few miles from where Alex lived. Life, however, was relatively uneventful for the next few years. But in 2012, Charles Valo's nephew fathered a baby who was born premature. The nephew and the mother were both addicts, so social services put the baby in the care of Charles Valo's sister, Kay Wood. Woodcock.

[Marcus Parks]

By addict, do you mean like chocoholic?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean like heroin aholic.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, that's so much worse than chocolate.

[Ed Larson]

Way less delicious.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Maybe methaholic. I'm not sure. They were never truly, like, they were never that clear about it.

[Marcus Parks]

That's gonna be my sitcom, methaholic.

[Henry Zebrowski]

If it's 2012. That still, that's still kind of like that in between time. Between meth and heroin.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you're right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So could be either. Could be both. Well, the child was Joshua. Joshua Jackson, better known as J.J. charles sister Kay was too old to raise a baby. So a few months after gaining custody, Charles and Lori adopted JJ and as a result, JJ Valo would be the other child to die under Lori Vallow's care. Two years after they adopted JJ Lori finally realized the Cox family dream when she convinced her husband to move the family to Hawaii, which was also a bit of a fuck you to Joe Ryan, cuz Joe Ryan had actually moved to Phoenix to be closer to his daughter. But it was in Hawaii that Lori Valow and Chad Dbell's paths first began to cross.

[Marcus Parks]

I can feel the vibes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And feel the waves. I can feel it. Oh, God. Just those little. You got those Mormon underwear getting wet.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

From how humid it is, it's getting really wet. Gotta peel that off to get to that gay dude.

[Ed Larson]

Mahalo.

[Marcus Parks]

You will. You will address me. Yeah. You will. You will follow the island regulation. Just want to say aloha.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I just want to say aloha to him. Well, in Hawaii, Lori discovered the world of Mormon near death experience books. And she became a particular fan of the ribbon twirling author we mentioned last week, Julie Rowe, who was published by Chad Daybell's company. Lori Valow also became a huge fan of Julie Rose podcast, which led her directly to the AVOW message board that originally gave Chad Daybell his first big boost.

[Marcus Parks]

Whoa.

[Henry Zebrowski]

From there, Lori Valow discovered Chad Daybell's books and his podcast appearances. And Lori had soon read every book Chad ever wrote, including all of his awful fiction. The members of the AVOW message board, by the way, were also big believers in the white horse first prophecy. And it's likely that this website was where Lori Valo discovered the story about the144,000 Mormons who would survive the apocalypse to witness the second coming of Jesus Christ.

[Marcus Parks]

Dude, Julie Rowe is insane. Yeah, she's crazy, man. She's. Have you seen her tick tocks? I have not I fallen into that hole, man. Julie Rowe is absolutely ape looking great. Yeah, I mean it. She's tight as hell and she says.

[Ed Larson]

I love all these women.

[Marcus Parks]

There's something about these dange ass women.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Julie Rowe kind of looks like the woman who plays Cali on Grey's Anatomy.

[Marcus Parks]

She does. Yeah, she does. And she's. But the earthquake's still coming.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, any day now.

[Ed Larson]

Anything so weird because she seems so rational in the doc and then she'll just say the craziest out of nowhere.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, dude, you should watch this interview I did with the East Idaho. The East Idaho News with her an hour unadulterated uncut Julie Rowe. And she is nuts. But she puts it for forward too, that Chad might have been kind of angling for her to be the number one wife before he met Lori Valo.

[Ed Larson]

Well, she's not blonde enough.

[Marcus Parks]

Nope.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But at the same time that Lori was starting to fall completely into the highly attractive world of fantasy, her real life was getting more complicated. It soon became clear that the child she and Charles adopted, J.J. valo, so became clear he was severely autistic and he had to be constantly watched lest he sneak out of the house and wander the neighborhood. Charles Valo worked all the time. He traveled a lot for work.

[Marcus Parks]

Work.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So it became Lori's responsibility. Lori son Colby also got married in 2018, and his new wife soon noticed the strange relationship Laurie had with her son. Lori was terribly jealous and was said to have treated Colby more like a boyfriend than her own child. After Colby got married, Lori became distant, as if her son had left her for another woman.

[Marcus Parks]

It's not like my mom at all. She was never like that. She never called anybody. I was with a. She never just said being like, they're trying to take, they're just trying to take my son from me.

[Ed Larson]

It is like I remember the fir when my, I broke up with my long term girlfriend and it was the first Christmas with my mom. Afterwards she's like, now that you don't have your girlfriend, it's nice that I get more presents.

[Marcus Parks]

Thanks, mom. He's like just crying next to the Christmas tree.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, additionally, Charles and Lori's marriage was starting to show some wear. When Charles's mother died, Lori refused to go to the funeral, saying that she was somehow too busy.

[Marcus Parks]

There's stuff floating around, man. Yeah, it's hard for her to go, right? You can't just being like, you just dropped this funeral on me. Okay. If you really wanted me to go, you would have told me two weeks ago when I had already not done. Because I have to get my belly frozen. No, it's some kind of process where you get your belly frozen. Frozen.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

It hurts. Apparently.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I bet that's it. But the one piece of good news from Lori's perspective was the objectively depressing death of Joe Ryan. His decomposing corpse was found in a Phoenix apartment after he'd been dead for weeks. But when Lori was informed of the death, she couldn't have been happier telling her sister in law that Joe was evil and needed to die.

[Ed Larson]

Now because of he's the guy who got tased, correct?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Now if he got chest problems after that, they could have tied that to them probably.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's almost certain that Joe Ryan died of a heart attack because. Because Alex Cox tased him. Now why was like 58 or something.

[Ed Larson]

Now why wouldn't he get arrested for that?

[Marcus Parks]

Then because they would have to press charges in the first place.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, well, I knew immediately.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, but that's the other thing too, is that at this point, Joe Ryan's just a corpse in a apartment in Phoenix. You know, he's a. He's. As far as the police are concerned, he's a divorced man with a bunch of pictures of his daughter around his apartment, bunch of liquor bottles around who died of a heart attack. And no one cared about Joe Ryan. No one gave a. I just got.

[Marcus Parks]

To say, I'm looking at this whole crime scene and I got to say, what a life. Can't wait to do this myself. Amazing. Ah, something to look forward to.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But you'll notice this is a. A running theme with Lori is she likes to deal out death. She likes to say who needs to die and who deserves to live. And she's been doing. And she did this for a long time before she met Chad Daybell. That sort of thinking was already in her brain.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, it's. They were just ready to meet. They were ready to be together.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They're almost there now. By 2018, Lori Valo was 45 years old and had become absolutely obsessed with the Mormon near death experience world. Besides the works of Chad Daybell and Julie Rowe, Laurie was also a fan of a book called the Second Comforter, written by a man with the unlikely name of Denver C. Snuffer Jr. Oh.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That was the guy that molested Big Bird. Actually, it was very sad episode of Sesame Street. I was really rough.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I remember when Denzer Denver C. Snuffer Jr. Molested Big Red. He was Oscar the Grouch's roommate, right?

[Marcus Parks]

Drifter. Yeah, he was a drifter. He lived in the trash can next to it. And the Second comforter is also what saved my marriage.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know me as well. Get that second second comforter, ladies and gentlemen. It's a game changer.

[Ed Larson]

It really does make your life a lot better.

[Marcus Parks]

I.

[Ed Larson]

We. I also do the Second Comforter have to.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Fantastic. But in the Mormon world, you can't be into the near death experience trip without also falling into the end times obsession. Because these two subjects were intrinsically linked by the time Lori arrived on the scene. So after the Valo family moved back to Arizona. They don't live in Hawaii anymore. They're back in Arizona. Lori joined so many other neo fundamentalist Mormons in becoming a doomsday prepper.

[Ed Larson]

Well, makes sense, because Arizona already looks like the set of Mad Max.

[Henry Zebrowski]

True. Now, By October of 2018, Lori Valow had found her way to a Mormon end times class taught by a writer and so called life coach, woman named Melanie Gibb.

[Marcus Parks]

I hate Melanie Gibb.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Gibb, you may remember, had been inspired by Chad Daybell and it opened a local branch of the Doomsday prepper organization. Preparing a people in Arizona. It's preparing people. He made them know them better as Pap.

[Marcus Parks]

Pap got your ass, you idiot.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I knew it was coming you.

[Ed Larson]

I knew it was.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm a. You can't get me piss on you while you sleep. I'm bringing your house. I'm going to watch you sleep now.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's getting me. That's getting me.

[Marcus Parks]

I saw. I'm going get you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, if you, if you do that, I'll say you got me. Well, before long, Lori was a committed member of PAP as well. And with a receptive audience, her very quickly took off to the next level. At PAT meetings, Lori would claim that she no longer needed to sleep because angels would wake her up throughout the night to instruct her on how best to do God's work. She lived on angel energy.

[Ed Larson]

That's cool. You know, I mean if you're going to live on anything, might as well make an angel energy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It sounds cool.

[Marcus Parks]

No, it doesn't. It's. I mean it's. This is Charlie Sheen talk.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, it is.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, like the idea of like angel tiger blood angels. I don't need to sleep angels, they do sleep before me.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And it makes sense that Melanie Gibb would make it past the apocalypse because everyone know that Gibs are great at staying alive.

[Marcus Parks]

Yay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you.

[Ed Larson]

Thank you.

[Marcus Parks]

Except for the one that died AIDS.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

Would he died of AIDS?

[Henry Zebrowski]

He didn't die of AIDS. No, he didn't. No.

[Marcus Parks]

One of the died AIDS. Three of them died of AIDS.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Three of the BGs did not die of AIDS. No.

[Marcus Parks]

I thought Barry Gibb died of AIDS.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Barry Gibb didn't die of AIDS.

[Marcus Parks]

He was crucified. No, no, no, no.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I remember now. Jimmy Carter ran him over with a car.

[Marcus Parks]

Like a visual joke. You guys can't see my act out of it. If him driving the car, Jimmy Carter is surprised that I'm going to die face.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now obviously influenced by Chad Dell, Lori also claimed to be a personal witness of the resurrected Jesus Christ. And she said that she was regularly visited by the dead spirits of family members. God, she said, had also given her spirit so called premortal memories. Premortal. As I said earlier, that's a Mormon term for the Time people live in the presence of heavenly Father before we're born on this earth. But in Lori's premortal life, she claimed that she'd been a warrior for Christ, fighting the forces of darkness in the premortal world for millennia. And by the way, also every time Lori. It drives me nuts. Every time Lori Valow says the word millennia, she extends it into four staccato syllables. Millennia.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's fair. I God.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But when Lori said all this crazy to a gathering of PAT members, she got not blank stares or polite nodding, but raucous applause.

[Ed Larson]

It's like when I do shows in Florida instead of laughs.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And so the week after Lori was completely and totally validated for her extraordinarily arrogant beliefs, Melanie Gibb took Lori to a PAT conference in St. George. George, Utah. Fifteen guest speakers were on the bill. But the one that Lori Valo wanted to meet more than any of them was her favorite near death experience, author and podcaster, Chad Daybell.

[Marcus Parks]

Yummy yum. And as soon as she saw him, the first thing she thought in my head was man, oh man, I want a slice of that more man.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

I want that bowl of yogurt of a man.

[Marcus Parks]

Nothing. I want better to gargle the pouch of fat underneath his belly button so that I can can properly serve O.

[Ed Larson]

I bet he comes oatmeal.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, I hope he does, cuz that's the only thing I can eat according to my religion.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Tammy, are you ready for my Cream of Wheat?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Yes. Now, I saw the Mormon girls website and I feel like some of it is different there because it seems there they really want to make sure none of the seed is wasted. Do you think normal Mormon ladies do? Do they? Is it like doctrine to swallow?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I don't know if blowjobs are necessarily Mormon friendly side stories.

[Marcus Parks]

Lpotlmail.com I would actually really like to know.

[Ed Larson]

I think, I bet they are. They're probably fine.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean I guess it's between a consenting father and son, then it should be fine.

[Ed Larson]

I imagine if they're not using the vagina should be all good to go.

[Marcus Parks]

I feel like it's the opposite.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No. Yeah. Because the big Mormons thing is soaking.

[Ed Larson]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

But I just don't know if you swallow if it makes it legal because then it's food. Cuz then you're making food. Oh that's just. Yeah, yeah. Mean gagging. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We done talking about come.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay. But Chad claimed that right before this conference in St. George, his so called spirit spiritual voice, the One that supposedly guided him in his everyday life. This voice told him that he would meet an extraordinary woman at the conference that day. A woman who would change his life forever.

[Marcus Parks]

One day. You will meet your Deborah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Dearest Chad.

[Marcus Parks]

No, Chad. Deborah will make you happy. She will.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Ramona Yoda.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, conveniently, Chad had made himself totally free to meet whoever he wanted that weekend, as he'd left his wife and five children back home in Rexburg, Idaho, AKA New Jerusalem, for this particular conference.

[Marcus Parks]

And there ain't no such thing as cheating at a Pap conference, because what happens at a Pap conference stays at the Pap conference, and then it gets out.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And he kills your children. Yeah. But the Pap conference does sound like a bunch of women in their. Their feet. In a bunch of the.

[Ed Larson]

The. The big.

[Marcus Parks]

Like a big Pap smear conference.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, there it is.

[Marcus Parks]

You know what I mean?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I guess it sounds like that.

[Marcus Parks]

Guy going in there with. Don't they use a hook?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, they use a hook. What else do you think about Pap smears?

[Marcus Parks]

What do you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What else do you think happens down there?

[Marcus Parks]

I love them in the germs.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes, Pat Smear. Yeah, Germs, Nirvana.

[Ed Larson]

All that goes good on a everything bagel.

[Marcus Parks]

I love the. That's my favorite. Yum.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So after Chad went before the Pap conference and gave his halting, awkward speech about the end, sat down at his table to meet his fans and sign.

[Marcus Parks]

His books, there was tens of them.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And who else should saunter up to Chad's sit down with a big smile and a lot of adulation but Lori Valow.

[Marcus Parks]

Hi.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Lori told Chad that she'd read all of his books. And from what Melanie Gibbs said, Chad and Lori had instant chemistry, as if a lightning bolt had hit both of them. And indeed, it does seem like Chad and Lori went from zero to. To a hundred almost instantly. Well, Chad and Lori were inseparable for the rest of the conference. And before the weekend was over, Chad was telling Lori that his spiritual gifts had revealed that they had been married seven times before in previous lives. Lori, Chad said, was one of the chosen ones, and together they would change the world. Chad also told Lori that she had spiritual powers that only Chad could unleash in. In full. So they exchanged numbers at the end of the conference and continued communicating after they parted ways.

[Marcus Parks]

That's just how you flirted an end times conference.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, you got. You know, we've been married seven times.

[Ed Larson]

Also, if, like, anyone's going to commit adultery at a conference, it's The End Times conference, they're not expecting to live much longer.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, that's the whole thing, right, Is that they all, they all now believe every single thing is the end justifies, defies the means, is that it's all careening towards everybody's going to be dead anyway.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And it does, it adds a sense of urgency to everything you do, absolutely everything. So it does tend to make you make bad decisions. Decisions like, hey, why don't we kill our spouses? Or hey, why don't we kill my children? You know, because you just think, not a lot of time left, we got to get this kick started and it's not really going to matter anyway.

[Marcus Parks]

They also believe that there was, there's no pause between this life and the next life.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

They believe the next life is as real and is as concurrent as this life. So you won't miss anything. Death is not anything.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Now, as we said, Chad was a bit of a dud in both personality and looks, or at least that's the case by non Mormon standards.

[Marcus Parks]

Me, I'm the human version of Parcheesi. Everybody's favorite sit down game. Good, quiet, long game.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Lori, however, couldn't stop talking about Chad and on the way back from the conference, saying that she was attracted to him, quote, on a spiritual level. As far as what attracted her, Lori was obviously a very black and white person. And in addition to pumping her up, Chad had also given Laurie a very simple way of slotting black and white thinking into her belief system. Chad claimed that he'd come up with a system to tell if people were dark spirits or light spirits, which was yet another concept he'd stolen from the controversial NDE book Visions of Glory. In Visions of Glory, Tom Harrison had said that during one of his NDEs, he was shown people whose only purpose on earth was to commit evil deeds. People he unimaginatively called evils. Everyone, Harrison claimed, has levels of light and dark within them. And we all have to ascend above the dark in order to gain light levels.

[Ed Larson]

What I don't understand is, and I know I'm trying to make sense of something very, very stupid.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

So if you are, are light and you die, does that mean that the number's down to 143,999 people that are saved?

[Marcus Parks]

See, the 144,000 only happen after the rest of us are dead. And that's even still debated as to whether or not what that number means.

[Ed Larson]

So if I'm light and you're dark and I die, does that Mean that you have a chance to take my light. It makes no sense. No, it may. It may.

[Marcus Parks]

You're killing me, sir. No, the. Well, the big lesson with this, honestly, the visions of glory, like, the real hidden thing, is the idea that when you do bad things, you allow these evil spirits to gain agency over you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

So it is your fault. That's the key here, is that no dark. See, light is like in his world. If you're a Mormon already in a capital M, Mormon, you are a light. But a dark person is allowed dark energies to enter them through the top of their head.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, if you like. That's the thing. If you. If you watch pornography and you masturbate at the moment of ejaculation, the top of your head opens up and a dark spirit comes out.

[Marcus Parks]

Because they were all edging.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, demons want experience coming because they're disembodied. They never had bodies. They're disembodied spirits. And so they have to jump into you the moment you come. And then this is all real according to them. Then when you come, the dead de. The devil gets to be like, come and go wee out of your dick. And it gets to experience the whole thing because devils love coming out from the inside of balls. Cool.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So does that answer your question? No.

[Marcus Parks]

Come here. I wanted. I want to shake your head.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So I assume that after reading about the light dark system in Visions of Glory, Chad developed his own system to classify people into light or dark categories. The more light you were, the more aligned with God, and the more dark the more you were aligned with Satan. But as we said in the first episode, Chad really did turn Mormonism into a tabletop rpg. And he quantified how light or dark someone was by giving them a number between 4.3 and minus 4.3, or 4.3 light and 4.3 dark. Now, Chad had chose the number 4.3 because it added up to 7. And 7 is extremely, extremely important in both Christianity and Mormonism. Seven days of creation, seven tribes of Israel, so on and so forth. Also, him and Lori have been married seven times.

[Ed Larson]

4.3, though, does not add up to seven.

[Marcus Parks]

No, it's a number 4.3, 4 and a 3. If you add them. If it's just 4.3, that's his number.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you take the four and you take the three, then you add that together, then that makes you to think, is it in Chad's. That's the thing. Hey, me. In Chad's world of, like, new Age Numerology and making up as you go along. Like the four and the three represented heaven and earth. So if you are 4.3 light, that meant that you're spiritually perfect. You have an equal amount of heaven and earth in you. But if you're 4.3 dark, then you're perfectly spiritually imperfect. I suppose. Although it would have been a of a lot cooler if, like the most like dark, you could be with 6.66 dark.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that's called brand.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes, it is.

[Marcus Parks]

If he was actually making this into a tabletop rpg, which I actually think you should do at home, I think the Lori Valo Chad Daybell at home game would be really fun. And that's. But that's how you do it. You'd probably roll for it. Yeah, But I think 6.66 has to be the end of dark.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, it has to be. But then that's the thing is that you can't.

[Marcus Parks]

It's Grayskull. But what's his name?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, but you can't. But if you were 6.66 dark, that makes you like a bigger number than like 4.4.3 light.

[Marcus Parks]

But that's because you'd have to. Was more powerful than good in the beginning. But in the end they always lose.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Is easy. You could just make it 7 light and 6.66 dark. So that way there's no equality there.

[Marcus Parks]

Let me call Chad. I actually have some numbers through my bosses now.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All of this, again sounds very stupid. Yes, and it only gets dumber from here. To tell who was a light or dark spirit, Chad used a magical artifact, a golden owl necklace that he believed was a gift from God. Chad would ask the necklace questions and it would swing one way or another to suss out the light or dark tone of a spirit. Sussing out tones, however, was only part of the owl necklace's power. Chad would also bring it out during those gatherings he'd host at his home. And he would use it to tell people things about themselves and their past lives. Things that made Chad appear to be very spiritually connected and Mormon world. The owl would swing back and forth for a yes or swing in a circle for no. But according to one of Chad's former friends, Chad would find out who was coming to his gatherings beforehand and Google everything that he could find out about him. Then he would pretend that that information that he gathered on Google came from the necklace.

[Marcus Parks]

The worst part about asking the owl is that all the hours of like, now tell me magical owl, is time dark? Who? Tylee? Who Tyler, Magical owl hours of this.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's very cute. Yes, thank you.

[Marcus Parks]

It only did involve the deaths of all these children. It would be entirely cute.

[Ed Larson]

I wonder what he did when he went to Hooters.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah, he was like owls everywhere.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But I do think that Chad did actually believe in his own. Because after Chad got back to Rexburg after meeting Lori, he immediately took his owl necklace and began a detailed light and dark spirit analysis of Lori's whole family, including her ex husbands and her dead relatives. Not surprisingly, Lori Valley herself was 4.3 light. Spiritually perfect. Whoa. Guess what? Chad Day Bell, 4.3 light. Wow. Spiritually perfect.

[Marcus Parks]

He was.

[Ed Larson]

Yes. They're so blessed.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They really are. Both of Lori's parents and her dead siblings, sister Stacy, three light on earth. But Stacy, since she'd gone to heaven, she was now 4.1 light.

[Marcus Parks]

That's like your survival rating and in Naked and Afraid. Yeah, it doesn't really make sense either. That one either.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, please make up those numbers very arbitrary.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Also not surprising was Chad's appraisal of Lori's ex husbands. Her second husband was too dark, while Joe Ryan was on the totally opposite side of Lori's spectrum at 4.3 dark.

[Marcus Parks]

He's dead.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, he's still 4.3 dark. Well, he was 4.3 dark when he was on earth. Wow.

[Ed Larson]

Wow, that's awesome.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Smart.

[Marcus Parks]

You're cool. Also guess what that is. Folk magic.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

It's fucking the same thing that Joseph Smith did.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

It's another fake bullshit. Like it's, it's, it's literal old timey. Oh no, man. Shit.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Magical objects play a massive role in Mormonism and they continue to this day. Like you can just say like, oh yeah, I have a magical object because Joseph Smith had magical objects. You know, you can just say whatever the you want is and you know, as long I guess as you. As long as you kind of talk a good game and stay within the bounds that everybody is expecting you to stay within, then you can get a long way in Mormonism with a magical owl necklace.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, wow. God, we gotta do it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Sure, we can get one.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Interestingly though, Chad was all over the place in the beginning when it came to quantifying the people who would end up dead as a result of his and Lord Lori's beliefs. Charles Vallow, Lori's then current husband, started at three light and their adopted son JJ was even better. He was a 4.2. Damn near perfect. Tylee, however, Lori's daughter, she was 4.1 dark and I believe that this negative rating may have been where the first seed of getting rid of everyone, keeping Chad and Laurie apart was planted. See, almost immediately, Chad began blowing copious amounts of spiritual New Age Mormon smoke up Lori's ass. And Lori's ass was just about as wide open as it could possibly be to welcome it in as wide as a Swiss sailor. Lor's brother Alex soon joined his sister as a follower of Chad Daybell. And within nine months of Chad and Lori's first meeting, Lori's fourth husband, Charles, would be dead by Alex Cox's hand. Charles would be just the first of four people to die as a result of the fantasy world Lori and Chad would soon create. And it's with the creation of that world that will pick back up next week for Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow, part three.

[Ed Larson]

Wow, man.

[Marcus Parks]

Man, I just love this whole goddamn story so much.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Incredible.

[Ed Larson]

It's a crazy story, but the four point thing, it just makes me so, like, insane with anger.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you don't like dnd. You don't like it when it results in child's death, but it's just.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's just. It's as judgy as you can possibly get.

[Ed Larson]

And it's stupid.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's really stupid. It doesn't make any sense.

[Ed Larson]

It just like, pulls it out of his ass and everyone's like, yeah, that sounds great.

[Marcus Parks]

And whoever said before was completely incorrect. Andy Gibb died of a drug addiction and Barry Gibbs still alive. And there's also whoever, whoever said all this. Whoever said that? And Maurice died of untwisted intestines. Yeah, I don't know how that happens. I guess this comes from Saturday Night fever.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Go to patreon.com on the left to watch video episodes of every single episode we do. And don't forget to go watch side stories for free over on YouTube. And once you got those apps open, go on over to Tick Tock and Instagram and follow us at LP on the left. And if you still want more from the last podcast network, go over to Twitch TV LPNTV to see us perform Bull live. And go back to our YouTube page to check out everything after the fact. VOD. And don't forget to come out and see us on tour.

[Ed Larson]

That's right, man. We're gonna be in Nashville soon. That is March 14th. We're doing the freaking rhyming, dude.

[Marcus Parks]

Can't wait.

[Ed Larson]

I'm so excited for this. The Rhyme is the most beautiful venue in the entire country. I can't wait to be there in that weird Confederate church.

[Marcus Parks]

And then we'll be in Huntsville right after.

[Ed Larson]

After that, on the 16th, that Sunday, we're going to be in Huntsville. And Henry and I, we're coming for you, NASA.

[Marcus Parks]

We're coming for you, NASA. I also told there are several competing German restaurants and there's an entire German town that we can go to that is just outside of Huntsville as well.

[Ed Larson]

Well, if they are competing, they need to hit us up and compete for our business because we're big and we buy lots of sausage.

[Marcus Parks]

I can't wait.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So this NASA hat headquarters. Not headquarters, but they had a sudden.

[Marcus Parks]

Influx of German population around 1945.

[Henry Zebrowski]

1945 or so, for some reason. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And they just had to find a bunch of different. It seemed to be they were very demanding clientele and they seem particular. Oh, yeah. And they just seem to create a lot of. They found a way for them to be really comfortable. Yeah, in Alabama.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, now that I think about it, the Nazis were quite fussy, you know.

[Marcus Parks]

They really, really were.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, really.

[Marcus Parks]

I call them pains in the asses.

[Ed Larson]

Maybe they were just upset because they're all the cuckoo clocks driving them crazy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

I can never sleep. I cannot sleep. All right, well, hail Satan, everyone, because Satan actually won't kill your kids.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

It's nothing to do with your kids.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Hell, Geen. He never killed a single child.

[Ed Larson]

Yes, inhale Geen Hackman.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, we don't know yet.

[Ed Larson]

What do you mean?

[Henry Zebrowski]

We don't know whether it sounds like carbon monoxide poisoning.

[Marcus Parks]

No, it's all dependent. That completely got debunked. No, carbon monoxide poisoning is actually highly suspicious. They have no idea what happened inside the house.

[Ed Larson]

Well, I'm still hailing a blind can.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, do it while you can, but please, let's not get into a Chris Benoit situation here with genius with a kid with A.

[Marcus Parks]

He's 95. The wife was found mummified. She'd been dead for days. And they found him. They might have followed. It looks like either she died suddenly and then he fell and then he had pills, and then the dog is. The pills is why the dog died. That is like one thing that they're saying, but otherwise they don't know because the doors were. The front door was open. That was what's also weird. So somebody could. Went in there for days.

[Ed Larson]

The door was open.

[Marcus Parks]

Apparently they.

[Ed Larson]

Stay tuned for side.

[Henry Zebrowski]

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[Ed Larson]

Perfect.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Or for your broken phone to glitch at the worst possible time. Hey, can I get your number? Oh, trade in your old phone for a brand new iPhone 16 Pro, iPad and Apple Watch. Visit verizon.com today. Additional terms apply Service and Required for.

[Marcus Parks]

Apple watch and iPad okay, business leaders.

[Ed Larson]

Are you here to play or are you playing to win? If you're in it to win, meet your next Next MVP.

[Marcus Parks]

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