Episode 611: Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell - The Doomsday Murders Part III - Zombie Apocalypse

Summary

Last Podcast on the Left – Episode 611: Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell - The Doomsday Murders Part III - Zombie Apocalypse

Host/Authors: The Last Podcast Network
Release Date: March 8, 2025
Description: This episode delves into the chilling saga of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell, exploring their descent into a doomsday cult, the sinister murders they committed, and the bizarre belief system that fueled their actions.

---

1. Introduction to Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell ([04:18] - [07:16])

The episode opens with hosts Marcus Parks, Henry Zebrowski, and Ben Kissel introducing the third part of the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell case. They recap how Lori, a fervent follower of Chad Daybell, met him at a Preparing a People (PAP) conference in Utah. Their initial meeting was electric, described humorously as a “lightning strike” that solidified their shared apocalyptic beliefs.

Notable Quote:
Marcus Parks: "It was like a lightning strike hitting both of them, electrifying their shared beliefs and awakening their Mormon loins of desire." ([06:42])

2. Formation of a Doomed Partnership ([07:16] - [14:17])

After their meeting, Chad and Lori began a daily exchange of texts, deepening their connection. Lori immersed herself further into Chad’s teachings, spending up to eight hours a day at her local LDS temple and consuming apocalyptic podcasts. This intense indoctrination led Lori to believe she had transcended human needs.

Notable Quote:
Henry Zebrowski: "She started claiming that she had transcended beyond human needs like eating, sleeping, urinating, or defecating." ([09:33])

The hosts mockingly discuss the absurdity of Lori’s claims, highlighting the extreme shift in her behavior and beliefs.

3. Escalation of Their Cult Beliefs ([14:17] - [27:00])

Chad and Lori developed a complex belief system involving reincarnation, light and dark contracts with spiritual entities, and the existence of “zombie slugs”—demonic spirits possessing individuals. They convinced themselves they were reincarnations of significant religious figures, justifying their actions to commit murder as necessary for the greater good.

Notable Quote:
Marcus Parks: "Chad convinced himself and Lori that they'd been married seven times in their past lives, going all the way back to the times of Jesus Christ. So since Chad and Lori were already sealed in a kind of spiritual polygamy, they weren't committing adultery at all." ([15:01])

4. The Plan to Remove Charles Vallow ([27:00] - [51:43])

Chad and Lori’s delusional belief system drove them to target Charles Vallow, Lori’s husband, and others they deemed as “zombies.” They manipulated financial aspects, such as transferring funds from joint accounts to isolate Charles financially. Lori’s calculated actions included stealing Charles’s truck and changing household locks to exert control.

Notable Quote:
Marcus Parks: "Chad and Lori were so high, they decided that people with extremely high vibrations didn't have to follow the strict teachings of the LDS Church. So they therefore freed themselves to make their own rules." ([33:20])

Their interactions with authorities were marked by manipulation and strategic deception, ensuring their heinous plans remained undetected initially.

5. The Murder of Charles Vallow ([51:43] - [89:00])

On January 29, 2019, while Charles was on a business trip, Lori executed her plan to eliminate him. She isolated him by draining his finances and severing communication channels, effectively leaving him vulnerable. When Charles returned, he attempted to intervene, leading to a confrontation with Lori’s brother, Alex Cox, who murdered Charles. The autopsy revealed inconsistencies, indicating premeditation rather than self-defense.

Notable Quote:
Marcus Parks: "The autopsy, however, told a different story. First shot, that's plausible. But the second showed that Alex had definitely finished the job after Charles was already on the ground." ([36:56])

The hosts highlight the police’s inadequate response, emphasizing how Lori’s charm and calculated demeanor allowed her to evade suspicion despite overwhelming evidence.

6. Psychological Manipulation and Cult Dynamics ([89:00] - [117:00])

Post-murder, Lori continued to manipulate those around her, including her children and extended family. She portrayed herself as a victim of an unhinged husband while simultaneously deepening her involvement in Chad’s cult. Her children, particularly JJ, who had disabilities, were further victimized, becoming targets within their twisted belief system.

Notable Quote:
Henry Zebrowski: "Lori Valow knew how to manipulate authority figures. She knows very well." ([91:49])

The podcast discusses how Chad and Lori created a self-sustaining cult environment, using fear, religious justifications, and psychological manipulation to maintain control over their followers.

7. Confrontation and Conclusion ([117:00] - [140:57])

As law enforcement began piecing together the timeline and motives, Chad and Lori’s web of deceit unraveled. Their extreme actions, fueled by apocalyptic delusions, culminated in multiple murders aimed at securing their envisioned new Jerusalem in Rexburg, Idaho. The hosts critique the failure of authorities to recognize and intervene in such cult dynamics promptly.

Notable Quote:
Marcus Parks: "Chad and Lori were so high, they decided that people with extremely high vibrations didn't have to follow the strict teachings of the LDS Church. So they therefore freed themselves to make their own rules. They cannot help themselves... everyone who will eventually flip on them was very much a part of this LARP before people started dying." ([08:04], [33:52])

The episode concludes with reflections on the tragic consequences of unchecked fanaticism and the importance of recognizing and addressing cult-like behaviors within communities.

Final Quote:
Henry Zebrowski: "If you even for a second think for a second that Lori Valow could be innocent, I ask you to go and listen to the prison phone calls between Lori Valow and her sister and Lori Valow and Colby Ryan and you will hear who the real Lori Valow is. And you must know that this woman is a stone-cold psychopath." ([142:17])

---

Conclusion

Episode 611 of The Last Podcast on the Left offers a harrowing exploration of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell’s descent into a doomsday cult, culminating in a series of brutal murders. Through a blend of investigative discussion and dark humor, the hosts shed light on the psychological and religious factors that enabled these individuals to commit heinous acts, while critiquing the societal and law enforcement failures that allowed their atrocities to unfold.

---

Note: This summary excludes all advertisement segments and non-content sections, focusing solely on the narrative and discussions pertinent to the case of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell.

Transcript

[Marcus Parks]

NETCredit is here to say yes because you're more than a credit score. Apply in minutes and get a decision as soon as the same day. Loans offered by Netcredit or lending partner banks and serviced by Netcredit Applications subject to review and approval. Learn [e-mail] partners. NetCredit credit to the people ready to.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Optimize your nutrition this year? Meet Factor America's number one Ready to Eat meal service. Factor's Fresh Never Frozen meals are dietitian approved and ready to eat in just two minutes. Their chefs handle the shopping and chopping, delivering fresh, fully cooked meals to your door. All you have to do is heat and Enjoy. Choose from 40 weekly options across eight dietary preferences like Calorie Smart, Protein plus and Keto. And if you're looking to lose weight, Factor's Keto meals can help you lose up to 8 pounds in eight weeks. Savor Nutritious premium meals no matter how busy life gets. Eat smart with Factor get [e-mail] Factor 50 off and use code Factor 50 off to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box weight loss with Factor Keto based on randomized controlled clinical trial results will vary depending on diet and exercise. From the boogie down streets of Queens to a pile of beans, a new cup of piping hot polish, Italian java, Last podcast on the left and Spring Heeled Jack Coffee are rising from the rubble with the new brew. Butterfly Dudes Blue Eye Blend. Nothing to do with any moth based entity. Don't even think about it. This is a butterfly dude. Don't mind the blue eyes, he's just Caucasian. Our new proprietary roast might seem eerily similar but. But don't let your tongue deceive you. It's a butterfly Dude Rose this is the Butterfly Dude's Blue Eyed Blend. Entirely delicious and not just the same beans. Butterfly Dudes Blue Eye Blend from the cocoon to your room.

[Marcus Parks]

There'S no place to escape to.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is the last on the left. That's one cannibalism started. What was that? Oh God. Thank God I masturbated this morning cuz I got that demon out of me that was kind of still stuck. Yeah, I had one stuck. Yeah I I think that was what was my problems that my back's been hurting. Then I realized that what that was, it was because I had a demon stuck in my lumbar and I had to clear it out. So that was. That was most of my morning.

[Marcus Parks]

Did it come out of the top.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Of your head or that's how it comes in?

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, it comes into the top of your head. The top of the little blow hole in the top of your head doesn't, like, pop out and come shoots out of it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, not anymore. Not since the procedure. And I remember one time, you know, and it's funny because you hear it go like.

[Ben Kissel]

The demons in my balls have been using my cock as a snorkel. Yeah, they're doing great in there.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's not good, Eddie. That's not good, Eddie. I think you need to troll your balls like you troll the sea floor for catfish.

[Ben Kissel]

No, I figured the longer I keep it in there, the more demons will show up in my balls, and then I get really backed up, and then I'll puke them out.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You're saying congestion pricing is going to force them out?

[Marcus Parks]

Welcome to the last podcast. On the left, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Marcus Sparks. I'm here with the newly empty Henry Zabowski.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But you know what's the saddest part? I get filled right back up.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Every time.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I. You know, like, sometimes every once in a while, I think if I have a very thorough sesh with myself.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm like, maybe that's the last one.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. You know, one day it will be.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Yeah. Then comes the final session. You know what I'm saying?

[Marcus Parks]

I know what you mean. And we also have the man with the interesting theories about his own balls. Ed Larson.

[Ben Kissel]

That's right. I named the right one Nick. And the left one Schneider.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, wow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's on topic, of course.

[Marcus Parks]

Here we are today on Chad Dabel and Lori Valow, Part 3.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's never gonna stop.

[Marcus Parks]

Never.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We're gonna be here forever. I just think I've. I'm so ensconced in the material, I could talk about it forever. It makes me extremely angry.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Irate, even. I'm walking around in a poor mood. Right. I did this the other day, and Natalie said this. She's like, why are you so irritable? And to be honest, it's the book. It's Chad Daybell's book.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's the thing I had to read. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

So you've been reading. Was it the James and Elena story? Oh, the James and Elena story.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I read the who.

[Ben Kissel]

That wasn't published.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, buddy. No, it's out there now. There is a. There is a 20 page. There's 20 pages of it.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I wouldn't call that a book for Chad Daybell.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's enough. I feel like it is because he doesn't write with similes or metaphors or it's just facts. Like, all he writes are like, she walked to the door. She grabbed me by the storm. I shot my snow into her basket.

[Marcus Parks]

A lot of declarative sentences. Yes, ye.

[Ben Kissel]

I'm converting.

[Marcus Parks]

Whoa. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

No, I want to be more mad, dude.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You won't be, though. You won't be. Not after I watch all the Jody Hildebrandt stories. Eddie and I were talking a little bit about masturbation. Accountability. That's a part of where this even came from.

[Marcus Parks]

Sure.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. About how, like, making sure we masturbate. Making sure we masturbate to good stuff. Because I'm trying to get him into the crossing guard porn. Because there's a whole new thing now.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, no one wants to hear you talk about masturbating.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. I'm just saying, crossing guard stuff is. No, because it's. They get stuck in a bush, and then the basketball courtches got to pull him out.

[Marcus Parks]

Okay. Interesting.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, with the crossing guard porn is it rarely tells you what to do. It's just when they hold up that sign, it says stop.

[Marcus Parks]

Stop. Hey. Which is responsible.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

So when we last left, our favorite Mormon doomsday couple, Chad Debel and Lori Valow, had finally met at a Preparing a People conference. That's in Utah, after Lori had spent years as a fan devouring Chad's horeshit through his books and podcast appearances. As their mutual friend and podcaster Melanie Gibb put it, the moment Chad and Lori met was akin to a lightning strike hitting both of them, electrifying their shared beliefs and awakening their Mormon loins of desire.

[Ben Kissel]

What I wouldn't give to watch them get struck by lightning.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, man. To me, though, it kind of feels like a big, flabby gong noise.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They saw each other. His, like, belly vibrated, and he was just like, oh, wow. Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

It's like hitting a big sheet of tin with a piece of pork.

[Henry Zebrowski]

These fuckers and Melanie Gibb, if you're listening to this, and I hope you are, you can go yourself.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Melanie Gibbs sucks. She's one of the worst people in this entire fucking story.

[Ben Kissel]

Spoiler alert.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I hate this fucking woman. All of these fucking people suck.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I mean, we're, of course going to really get into it, but I really do want to say, like, wholeheartedly that this shit. You know, they say that, you know, this wouldn't have happened without them being within, you know, like, the Mormon framework and all that, but it truly would not have happened without people like Melanie Gibb telling them the whole time that what you're doing is fantastic and what you're doing is great. And you are. You are who you say you are.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because guess what? You get to be if they are who they say you are. The bitchy best friend of the goddess that's in charge of everyone. And that is all they ever want to be. These people just want to rule by a association. That's even why they're hanging out with Chad and Lori is because they think they'll get a little chunk of the power.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, after the PAP conference, Chad and Lori continued communicating. And Chad soon ran Lori's entire family through his light dark sorting system, pegging some relatives as light and therefore more aligned with God and others as dark, therefore more aligned with Satan.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I will say you remember, we do have remember in Visions of Glory. It explains how this process works. And the key to remember is that if you are in line with Satan, it is your fault. You have done actions that have allowed demons to enter you.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So just remember that it's always the victim's fault.

[Marcus Parks]

Always. But almost immediately, Chad and Laurie began communicating almost daily through text. And once that happened, Laurie tripled down on her Mormon faith, spending up to eight hours a day every day at her local LDS temple. When Laurie wasn't at church, she filled her days with the neo fundamentalist apocalyptic Mormon podcasts that were produced by the members of the AVOW message board and the Preparing a People podcast network. While listening, Laurie continued to drink in the beliefs of near death experience authors like Julie Rowe, in addition to the near constant chatter about the end times spouted, of course, both by the regular hosts and Chad Daybell whenever he made an appearance. Before long, the fantasy world put forth by these podcasts had penetrated deep into Laurie's brain and she began claiming that she had transcended beyond human needs like eating, sleeping, urinating, or defecating.

[Ben Kissel]

Is full of.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She is literally. She's like Gwyneth Paltrow. You know, Gwyneth Paltrow takes one dump a year.

[Ben Kissel]

Wow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. It's entirely.

[Marcus Parks]

She books it, right?

[Henry Zebrowski]

She does, she does. She goes to a very fancy public toilet and she just lets out a. It's a pellet that's the size of her body and it just slides out out of her over slow six to seven hour period. And wow, that pellet. Honestly, it's pretty fragrant.

[Marcus Parks]

So you're saying she molts?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. Also, this brings in a key thing to remember about Mormons they think plagiarism is magic. So when Lori Valley first saw Chad Daybell, you have to remember he's spouting off all the bullshit that he read from Visions of Glory that he has retrofitted into his own story. She's read Visions of Glory. She's also read every other bullshit near death experience Mormon book that was out in the market because she obsessed with it. But the thing about Mormons, and this is all of them, this is every single one of them they have read about in this story that when they hear the same literal ideas come out of somebody else's mouth, instead of them saying, oh, sounds like he stole that from Tom Harrison's story and he's kind of retrofitting into his own, they view that as, wow, it's happening to everybody. Yeah, like, they don't understand copying. They don't understand that they are all adding to their own worlds. This is Chad Daybell's fucking DLC to Tom Harrison's world and they are all eating it up.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, they think it's all parallel thinking, like, oh my God, can you believe that we all came up with the same thing at the same time?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because it's real. Because God is telling them all the same thing.

[Ben Kissel]

But they all read it earlier that day.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, they all read it earlier that day. And they also don't understand that. Yeah, if you just copy from somebody that it's just copying, it's just copy. Yeah, they. They don't. They don't get it at all. They think, oh, my God, I can't believe these two people have the same experience. Well, and they also. It kind of gives. It's the incredible thing about it is that it. The person who copies the other author, it gives them this sort of like, cred because that other author is already really well respected. And so it's like, oh, my God, I can't believe he has the same ideas as Tom Harrison. That must mean that he is telling the truth as well. It's just one thing upon another upon another upon another, going all the way back to Joseph Smith.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's creating a feedback loop that allows them to live in their own separate reality.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, it's like a comedian who only speaks in Austin Powers quotes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hey, don't you malign Alex Cox like that. We lost an incredible comedian that day.

[Marcus Parks]

Eddie Behave.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Got him. Damn it.

[Ben Kissel]

So smart.

[Marcus Parks]

But these podcasts that Lori Valow was listening to, these are only part of the equation here. See, while Lori Valow had certainly come into Chad Daybell's Life with a head full of bad religious wiring. Chad encouraged Lori's insane claims by telling her that they were not only valid, but that she had even more powerful gifts yet to come. Gifts that could only be unlocked by.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Chat, by me, God. As you could tell, I'm gonna be in charge of everything. And so. Well, including that booty, Lori, a lot of good things to come.

[Marcus Parks]

And so in the weeks after the pap conference where the doomsday couple met, Laurie and Chad bought burner phones to hide their burgeoning affair from their respective spouses. They communicated constantly through text, and Lori even began emailing Chad videos of herself doing supposedly sexy PG13 dances.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Do you know what they were?

[Marcus Parks]

What?

[Henry Zebrowski]

So part of their storyline, which, don't worry, we're getting to, is they're, you know, they're connected to this ancient biblical story. It's fake, right? We'll get to. We can't. I can't wait. But what she did was that she believed that she espoused the spirit of an ancient seductress of. Of Jewish leaders, and that what she did would go in and she would, like. Like, whoever it was, she Jewish herself.

[Marcus Parks]

Or she. A shiksa.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It was. She's a shiksa. Oh, you're talking. Have you seen her outfit? But no, she is a. The way to put it is that she believed in sort of like a Matahari style. Like. So what she would do is this dance of veils for him to mimic, like, David's concubine and like that. So she'd go like. And she do like. Like, kind of like a belly dance where she just kind of shift her butt back and forth, like, again. These are Mormons.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's only so far they're gonna be able to be actively fun sexual because they'd never done it before. So Glory's the first time kind of doing this. You go like. And it's just Tad Daybell going, wow. Wow. He's never seen a woman move her hips anything other than to have a child.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, they go to Hawaii. They must have seen a hula dance.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He's not allowed to look. Ah. I don't think they go to hula.

[Marcus Parks]

Chad didn't go to Hawaii before Lori.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah. It blew his mind.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He was like, they have a system where they put coconuts on there over their precious mammary that it has to definitely encourage the monkeys.

[Ben Kissel]

Imagine going to Hawaii and then being like, no, Idaho's the promised land.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is really. Honestly, Maui's really nice, but have you Been to the Whataburger in Rexburg.

[Marcus Parks]

But all this brings up a question about piety. See, if Chad and Laurie were such super Mormons, then surely their dalliances were edging close to adultery, the sin closest to death. But Chad, not surprisingly, found a way around this little conundrum. See, in the LDS Church, couples are sealed together for eternity when they're married in a Mormon temple. Which wasn't a problem for Laurie, because as far as I know, she'd never been married in a temple because all of her husbands were converts. And if you'll remember, two of her four weddings were held in Vegas. Chad, however, had been inextricably sealed to his wife Tammy in a temple almost 30 years before he met Laurie. But using his real Mormon superpower of finding a way to justify almost anything, Chad convinced himself and Lori that they'd been married seven times in their past lives, going all the way back to the times of Jesus Christ. So since Chad and Lori were already sealed in a kind of spiritual polygamy, they weren't committing adultery at all.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, I got the same thing with Salma Hayek, but she don't know.

[Marcus Parks]

She doesn't know yet.

[Ben Kissel]

I burn her phone.

[Marcus Parks]

Like, I don't want to say going.

[Ben Kissel]

To her burner phone.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You. You ghosted me at lunch. Another bowl of soup wasted. Waiting for you, Salma. Yeah, just endlessly texting Salma. Believe me, I wish. I've been texting her too. Wait, what? To help you. I'm your wingman, dude. What I'm doing is I'm threatening Salma in a super realistic, frightening way to drive her to you, bro.

[Ben Kissel]

I can't wait till we have our time together, Ms. Hayek.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, you will.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, lest do you think that this was just a spiritual journey for Chad and Laurie, the sexual side of the relationship began quite quickly, although it was just a lot of talk at first. See, Chad told Laurie that in the nights after they met, while they were still at the pap conference, Laurie's spirit had joined him in his hotel bed. And he had intense visions of all the passionate past life lovemaking they'd engaged in together over the centuries. Well, from there, Chad picked up the old writer's quill and wrote, gut.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, time to get to work.

[Marcus Parks]

And he wrote God awful erotic fiction starring Laurie and himself, substituting the names Chad and Laurie with James and Elena, which I suppose were names they both had in previous lives.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Jewish concubine. You're my Jewish concubine.

[Marcus Parks]

Chad then sent this sad attempt at erotica to Laurie over text, which hilariously became public knowledge when. When all their text conversations were submitted as evidence in their respective murder trials. This is an example of Chad's text erotica. And please, Henry, word for word, I will Rob.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Do we have a romantic, sound bed at all? James and Elena had agreed to visit the temple the following morning. She returned to the hotel room, and after additional romance on the couch, they calmed their nerves enough to give each other a blessing. As James placed her hands on her head, he connected with Elena's true, eternal self. He knew he was in the presence of an exalted goddess who had returned to earth to perform a special mission. This mission included being with him, and they would progress us together as translated beings. The full plan wasn't yet completely clear to him, but the immense power radiating from her confirmed his belief that she was among the great women in the universe.

[Ben Kissel]

God damn, I'm so hard right now.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Unfortunately, I have already expressed myself, and now I found the work to be lacking.

[Marcus Parks]

No, this is very.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's true. But remember, Chad does not have an imagination.

[Marcus Parks]

No.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So they are saying one of the big things is anything he wrote about in any of these books are things that actually happened. And there is a. It seems to be the reason why these were in the trial was because they had Cooper. I got to change this word. I got to do anything, but this word cooperated. Guy just everybody makes fun of me for the word and I am now paralyzed and they cannot move forward.

[Ben Kissel]

Cooperating.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Confirmed. They looked at the schedule of the temple and, like, where they were, and they basically connected all of these texts and things within these fake stories two times that they did things physically in the real world, in this sad telestial world. So Chad and Lori had a guy that got him into a temple, and they. There is some belief that they committed one of the highest sins in Mormon. In Mormon anity, which is to fuck in a temple. And that they might have.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, I actually do have. I've been thinking about it. I think I know the moment, and we're gonna, we're gonna get back, we're gonna get to it later. But I do think I, I, I pinpointed the moment in which this happened.

[Ben Kissel]

Are you sure? Because this sounds like it's written by a virgin.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, it is. Oh, no, no.

[Marcus Parks]

Chad's. Unfortunately, Chad has five children at this point, so unfortunately, we do know he is not a virgin.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He definitely had seven sex five times. And then also with Lori. I mean, Lori blew his mind. He's never seen pubic error. Like they have sex in the dark. Like him and Tammy had sex in the dark through a sheet. And they didn't even have to. They had it through the sheet. Just because he thought it was fun to look at something purely white. Yeah, he liked having sex with snow. From your grave.

[Ben Kissel]

Hey everybody, Ed Larson here from last podcast on the left to talk to you about my favorite product. And that's that is quince.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

I love looking good in my quince. I love feeling good in my quince. Do you like linen? I bet you do. Especially when it's on my big old body. But you know what they say. Elevating your style used to mean breaking the bank, but now the banks are broken. So what are you gonna do? You're gonna go to quints. All right? You're gonna get high and versatile pieces at prices you can actually afford. That's right. People look at my clothes and they're like, damn, Ed, that looks good. And I'd be like, you know what? It's affordable as heck because I got it on quince. That's right, man. Quince making me feel like a prince and get laid. That's right. So go ahead, go over to Quince. Do yourself a favor, do your wife a favor, get some magnolian cashmere sweaters. It's still cold out. Get the Mongolian cashmere sweater they started. $50. $50? That's not even real. So go ahead and take care of your life, be good to yourself and indulge in affordable luxury. Go to quince.com last for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U last to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com last look good baby. You deserve it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Are you holding back on foreign travel plans this year because you are afraid of the language gap? Well, no need to moin the gap if you have babble this year we speak like an oh no. You with Babel, the language learning app that gets you talking. Babble's 10 minute lessons created by over 200 experts help you start speaking a new language in three weeks or at your own pace. With a focus on practical real world conversations, it makes learning to communicate easy and effective. I do wish that they could put a cockney like option in there so you can go, I go now. And they can go. And she can be like. That means hello mister. And being like, how are you sir? Like I feel like that would be really fun. That would help me. Or like they have, like they have like terms like the, like in Ireland and stuff where they go like, oh, she's like, she's like a cat caught inside a washing machine or something. Oh, what's the crack? That's what, that's what they, that's what they say. Oh, what's the crack in Ireland? And I wish I had an app that says, oh, he's not talking about your butt, it's what they say over there. But Babel otherwise doing great. Let's get more of you talking in a new language. Babel is gifting their listeners 60% off [e-mail] left get up to 60% [e-mail] left spelled B A B-B-E-L.com left babble.com left rules and restrictions may apply. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. Seems amazing, right? It's because it is. From consultations to events and experiences, showcase your offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. Which is good because let's just say, I need it. You know, as you may or may not know, I lost horsepix.com in a very, very public and embarrassing auction to a young man by the name of Charlie Bucket who has decided to take my horse picks and drive it towards the right. Some of the incendiary horse picks that I've seen, including Steve Bannon on a Clydesdale. One of the worst I saw was Ivanka Trump inside of a mayor. And I know that this is not the direction that I saw. Horsepix.com and, and that little boy, I didn't know that he'd become a full fledged Nazi and, and grow his hair into broccoli shapes and do all sorts of things I don't understand. Which is why I've started emu paintings.com thank you squarespace, because emu paintings.com are these really it's an exceptional way for me to get you paintings of emus in various positions that emus would normally be. And in a way, I find it both amusing and inspiring to see what emus can do using the painter's brush and imagination. And if it wasn't for Squarespace, I would be absolutely F'd to the gills. That's the term for being absolutely s out of luck. Squarespace. Thank you for streamlining your workflow with built in tools because I would not have been able to get this website up fast enough due to the legal fees. I've received and the personal heartache and my own health deteriorating. I just want to say thank you Squarespace for all your help and emu paintings.com is going to be just as good and just as funny and relevant. I promise. Had to squarespace.com left for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code left to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Now.

[Marcus Parks]

The concept of past lives is extremely important to the evolution of Chad and Lori's belief system, but it's almost doubly important when it came to their evolution as a couple. When it came to the couple part, Chad continually blew Lori's sense of self importance way out of proportion by feeding her stories about past lives. Stories that simply built on the Lori was already saying at PAT meetings before she met Chad. Chad told Lori that she, along with her family and friends, had all been important Mormon prophets and pioneers, in addition to warriors who'd fought great battles on the side of the Nephites, the good guys in the Book of Mormon, they fought them against the layman, the bad guys in the Book of Mormon. And this of course, only increased Lori's arrogance and self assuredness.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, the laminates, they're protected by plastic, right?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

We fight on them with dry erase.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, we dry erase. Yeah. No permanent marker on the Lamanites.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Honestly, one of the most effective way to destroy the Lamanites is to enter into their sacred space with shoes on because that will disturb the highly, highly held. The. The couch of a Lamanite.

[Ben Kissel]

Also covered in plastic.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yep. Yeah, I have to cover myself with plastic to sit on the couch.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, as far as how reincarnation fit into Chad and Lori's belief system, Chad claimed that after a person lives two mortal lives, they choose to sign either a light contract with Heavenly Father or a dark one with Satan.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And the person gets either lighter or darker with each subsequent life. Additionally, every time someone is reborn, the veil between the mortal world and the spirit world thins. Chad and Lori, of course, had extremely thin veils because they had respectively lived 21 and 31 lives. 21 for Lori, 31 for Chad. Chad's always got to be a little bit better than Lori in everything, but.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That makes Lori hot.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, well, but she's a younger lady. Yeah, yeah, 21 lives instead of 31.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah. Chad's the mature one.

[Marcus Parks]

And they also, of course, lived very impressive lives.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Extremely impressive. The guy invented the high jump Mormon. The guy invented, you know, those, those things that you put in the gutters at A bowling alley so the ball doesn't go in. Oh, yeah. Mormon. Yeah, yeah. Anything that sucks.

[Ben Kissel]

No one's ever James from accounting in a past life.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Never.

[Ben Kissel]

It's always Jimi Hendrix or the Pope.

[Marcus Parks]

Always. Yeah, yeah. You lived and died in the same English village and you unfortunately yourself to death at the age of 23.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Actually, I did a really, really interesting past life regression the other day. And it turns out I was the cow that started the Chicago Fire.

[Ben Kissel]

Cool.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, Mrs. O'Leary's cow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was molested. That cow was a molested. And there's a reason why. You go back to why that cow did it. Look at the schools, you know, I.

[Ben Kissel]

Find that utterly amazing.

[Marcus Parks]

Eddie tunes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I looked at Eddie's dark cycle the other day. Unfortunately, he's a 2.9.

[Marcus Parks]

2.9?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Dark. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Heading towards removal.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh yeah. 4.20 last time I checked.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Dude, you totally redeemed yourself.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Chad said that he was the reincarnation of both Martin Luther and Methuselah while Lori was the reincarnated wife of the Mormon prophet, Angel Moroni. Moroni, of course. The one who brought Joseph Smith the.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Golden plates is Moroni's wife, Snooki. You remember like, who dated Morona? Yeah. They're like, hey, it's me, Moroni. You ever meet my ex? What a Like who's dating Moroni Moroni? What are you talking about? It's me. Oh, this is my wife. She makes amazing struggle. Yay.

[Ben Kissel]

Who's Methuselah again?

[Marcus Parks]

Methuselah is the old man in the Bio Devil.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He never died. He was like so. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Noah's guy. When you really.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What do you mean his guy? He's like H Vac guy.

[Ben Kissel]

I think I could be wrong, but I think he's related to Noah.

[Marcus Parks]

Might be.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Died in the flood.

[Marcus Parks]

Same book.

[Ben Kissel]

But it's not real, no matter who he is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You're right.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. You're just talking about a character in a book.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Grandfather.

[Ben Kissel]

And I went to Catholic school.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And did you know that Voldemort was his cousin? Really?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And so, after combining Chad's reincarnation beliefs with his light dark numbering system, our two Mormon doomsday prophets began. Yes. Ending each other until they had finally talked their way into spiritually and morally justifying cold blooded murder. Chad and Lori began by tabulating the so called vibration levels of everyone they knew. Vibration level. That's the strength of their spirit.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay, yeah, like Mine is like this.

[Ben Kissel]

Hell yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah. Audio medium.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you.

[Ben Kissel]

Jokes are really killing. It's funny how it didn't even work. To the people in the room playing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm playing to the ground. I'm playing to the ground. They love me. They need to see me.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, vibration was also attached to libido. Very important to the Mormons. And it was also attached to everyone's trust level as well as the light and dark percentages contained within each person. Vibration level is very important to Chad and Lori's belief system, but it's also important for remember that Chad and Lori considered themselves to be both 4.3 light, therefore the highest vibration. Actually, one source I saw said that Chad eventually considered himself to be 4.4 light.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, that goes all the way up to 11.

[Marcus Parks]

Exactly. That's. Yeah, yeah, you up my joke.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That was my next joke.

[Marcus Parks]

Cuz Lori had the highest vibration possible and Chad's basically went to 11. There we go. Thank you. Thank you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Good joke.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you. But since they were so high, they both decided that people with extremely high vibrations didn't have to follow the strict teachings of the LDS Church. So they therefore freed themselves to make their own rules.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's also important to note that during this time period, Melanie Gibb is texting them saying, do my husband next. Do my kids next.

[Marcus Parks]

Melanie Gibb, by the way, she's the podcaster, one of the most popular podcasters on the PAP Network Work.

[Ben Kissel]

Okay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And that's not saying a lot, but it is saying a thing. That is true. But they, they all like. This is just important to remember that as this is going, every person that will eventually flip on them was very much a part of this LARP before people started dying.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So they all were very encouraging of this. And I think largely it's because much like I play my D D game, I know that technically it is many hours after I've already worked and I have and I make stuff up finally for work all day, but then to play D and D for fun, in which I make up things for three hours. And I think that they are. That's. This is the issue here is that they're in a D and D world. They're enjoying the D and D world. But then they don't really want to know. When it comes down to, it's like I can't really kill Mike Lawrence in my group, even though right now he's sort of playing a heel. Yeah. But I can't physically stab Mike to death.

[Marcus Parks]

No.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But I could kill his character in the game, but they don't understand that when you kill the character in the game and then this story, they die for real life.

[Ben Kissel]

I will say Mike is now employed at the network and they started doing nerd of mouth.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

So you could fire him.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that is true. That is true. Yeah. But Chad and Laurie had a sort of fail safe built into their system that allowed them to jettison anyone in their lives. No matter how high a person's vibration was, anyone could become infected with a demon spirit controlled by Lucifer.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Whoa.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's big.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Chad, quickly catching on to the fact that cults need their own nomenclature, came to refer to these demon spirits as worms or slugs. If someone was infected with a worm or a slug long enough, they would become again, in Chad's parlance, a zombie. Once a person became a zombie, though, that was the point of no return. That person's soul had been pushed out of their body body into limbo. And the only way to save that soul from limbo was to kill the zombie body that had been infected by the demon slug.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Or from a song by Buster Poindexter.

[Marcus Parks]

Which I think RIP David Johansson.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, Buster Pointe. I said this outside stories.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He'll always be Buster Poindexter to me. And he tried to save us.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. By telling us how hot, hot it was. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Telling us about climate change.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Actually, I would say he was the Cassandra. I would say that hot, hot, hot was very encouraging of living limbo.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, people love limbo.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know, but it gets you out of limbo. Because the only way out in limbo is through, under, actually. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

That's how you lose limbo.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Going through.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I make my own rules. Oh, I gotta walk under this stick. Fuck all of you. Limbo. What is this, some Spanish curse?

[Marcus Parks]

No, all of this demon slug, zombie. This is a combination of cult speak, nonsense, and Chad's own subpar horror fiction sensibilities. Because to me, the zombie slug demon concept sounds like a stream of consciousness first draft idea that gets fucking thrown away because it's bad.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yep.

[Marcus Parks]

But with lightning speed, Chad and Lori began implementing these beliefs into their daily lives. And it wouldn't be long before Chad and Lori's echo chamber led them to assign zombie status to pretty much anyone who stood in the way of them being together.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, they also had. Well, I think the term that started to come around was death percentages.

[Marcus Parks]

Death percentages is a big one.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So death percentages were. Each time they would re over, like, get a death percentage, it would be he Goes all the way up to 99.9. Cuz that means you got to go. And that's what JJ hit, unfortunately.

[Ben Kissel]

Do you think that all the Mormons moved to the Great Salt Lake because they knew the salt would kill the slugs?

[Marcus Parks]

Whoa.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I don't know about it. I don't know.

[Marcus Parks]

I will, I promise.

[Ben Kissel]

All right, get back to me now.

[Marcus Parks]

The confidence in their past life marriages that Chad and Lori quickly developed over text that led them to be quite brazen about their affair even in its early days. Just weeks after Chad and Lori began texting, Chad arrived in Lori's neck of the woods to give a speech at the next Preparing a People conference held in Mesa, Arizona. Over that weekend, Lori had Chad stay at her home because her husband Charles was out of town with their kids, Tyler and Jake J. After the conference, Lori hosted the after party at her house.

[Henry Zebrowski]

God, what a bad scene that must have been.

[Marcus Parks]

Make sure you got plenty of 2 liters of strawberry soda.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, definitely will. And we'll throw some. I know. We might even get a little Rebald and watch Mr. Mom, the old Michael Keaton film.

[Marcus Parks]

Isn't there a couple of S words in that one?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know, I. I said, I just. We. When it comes around, I'll talk loud.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, are you talking about suck or are you talking about shit?

[Marcus Parks]

Stop it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You. You whore.

[Marcus Parks]

You whore. Well, at the after party, Lori was given the opportunity to speak in front of a very receptive audience of about 30 people, speaking to the crowd about what Chad had shown her with his magical owl necklace, the one that Chad used to divine past lives and suss out light, dark levels. Laurie said, quote, hey, everybody, I got.

[Henry Zebrowski]

To see myself as a warrior fighting for the savior. And I was one of his strongest warriors. I saw it and he showed me so that I could never deny it again. I was not sweet. I was not innocent. I am old. I have fought. I have fought in this war for millennia. That's who I am. And I came down here to be a warrior and fight. And I only thought that I was sweet and innocent. Wow, wow, wow. Jesse. No, because these pieces of. Because this is like, this is what they did with Taylor Swift. This is how Taylor Swift got introduced to people. Some record executive just unveiled her at a party and said, here's the new one. And then they all went like, yay. And that's it.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. No, she literally was on top of a stairwell and then started playing a guitar. And she was 16 years old and walked out and like, kept playing as she walked down the stairwell.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah, no, they orchestrated. Her entire life has been orchestra.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, Lori Valo had already been spouting this nonsense at PAT meetings before she met Chad Daybell. But this particular gathering was made up specifically of big Chad Daybell fans. And here you suddenly had this woman, Lori, whom Chad had anointed as a chosen one. Therefore, the response to Lori's bullshit was highly positive and immediately validating.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And guess who's not testing well anymore. Tammy. Tammy didn't get invited to the All Star int. Lori Valo. She was being a mom somewhere, just taking care of your kids like a real fucking lazy bitch, not being the new goddess of the new fucking Mormon millennium.

[Marcus Parks]

Not just that, but she's also back home running Chad Dabel's publishing company.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, very much so. Making his money. And so Lori. And what I also find funny is all of these Mormons, these so called high morality people are all watching this woman taking Tammy's place and they, they love it because they like to Lori better too, because she sounds crazier than them and they laugh. They just love it. She's fun, she's bouncy, she's evil. And they're here for it.

[Ben Kissel]

You guys really hate this whole pap thing. There's a lot of pap smearing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I already made that joke. I made it last week.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no. Yeah, but Ed did it better. He did it better. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Stepping on the shoulders of giants. And I also saw there was a dumbass show about yogurt someone's decided to put. And I'm going to attack them physically.

[Ben Kissel]

You hate yogurt.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, I suppose Lori did have some qualms about adultery, however slight, because after she gave her speech, she and Chad left her house and rented a hotel room where they somewhat consummated their passion in a very Mormon way.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Can we set the scene? We got to put, you know, you coming in there, she's laying down there, fully clothes.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, he's there fully closed, right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So he enters the room, they put on the tv. Guy Fieri's on screen. Yum yum. Taking a culinary cruise, I see.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, instead of just having sex like two normal people having an affair, they, quote, pressed their loins tightly against each other and did so fully closed.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Chad so tight tightly. Just. I could almost be inside of you if I was nude. Yeah, you would be.

[Marcus Parks]

Chad then ran his hands up and down Laurie's whole body, still fully clothed.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

Supposedly blessing and purifying each part of her.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I love this titty. And I bless this Titty as well.

[Marcus Parks]

All while they still called each other by the erotic fiction names Chad had given them. Chad, James and Elena.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And I love this butt and this butt. And I love your knees. Give your knees a blessing. Give your ankles a blessing. Are you laughing? Is it ticklish? It shouldn't be because God is doing it.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, you're just kissing socks anyway.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Got some fuzz in my mouth.

[Ben Kissel]

Mouth over the closed stuff you don't need a hotel room for. You can just do it apart.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, you can do it in the car. Yeah, you don't need privacy if you're not nude.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, you know, maybe he's got a bunch of bonvoy points we don't know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I mean, he's got. They really are burning a hole in my pocket.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, the day after their heavy petting session, Chad laid it on even thick. Because that's what it is. It's just heavy petting.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, it's also just about. It's like super heavy because it's just him pressing his entire body against her and just rubbing back and forth.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, because also remember, Chad Daybell is a big fat ass. How tall is he? He seems like he's like 6,000, 263.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He's big boy.

[Ben Kissel]

If I were to guess, I'd say he's at least 290.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, he's a big boy. Big boy.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, the day after their heavy petting session, Chad laid it on even thicker during a walk in the park where they scandalously held hands.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, wow, my palms are touching.

[Marcus Parks]

In the park, Chad told Lori about the secret meaning of his novels, A meaning Lori never revealed. And Chad told her for the first time that she had been correct all along because God had indeed chosen them both to lead the select group of 144,000 Mormons who would usher in the end times and the second coming. Now, after her passionate by Mormon standards weekend with Chad, Laurie abruptly went cold with her husband, Charles. He returned from his out of town trip with the kids to find that the woman he was unfortunately deeply in love with find she no longer wanted him. And he had no idea what had changed changed or what had happened in his absence. Things only started to make sense for Charles when he found the sexy videos his wife had emailed to her favorite author, Chad Daybell. But Charles did not confront Lori just yet, as far as I know. And he only told his sister K that his wife was having an affair or about to start one.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Like it's devastating to find that type of footage on a loved one's phone, you know. But like, how do we put this? If the sex are so bad, does it count?

[Marcus Parks]

Like, if the sex are so bad.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The sex, right.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, the sex.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. It's hard.

[Marcus Parks]

Like, yeah, it was really hard to.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Pluralize because on some level you're looking to Lori Valo do a dumb dance.

[Marcus Parks]

Sure.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And it's not very sexy. It's her just going fully clothed. Well, yeah. And on some level you're like, she's not even trying to get this guy hard.

[Marcus Parks]

So you're saying that if you were to find a video that Natalie had sent to another man, you would gauge how pissed off you were about it based on how good the video was?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, it just depends on how Mormon the video is.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm just saying, like, this is Mormon as hell. Like, this is just not like, even Charles being, like, she doesn't even know how to cheat. Like, she doesn't even know what to do here.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, but Natalie's a dancer.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that is true.

[Ben Kissel]

That is like a built in excuse there.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, a lot of times you just turn on shoes practicing.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that is true.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That is true.

[Ben Kissel]

That's great thing to tell yourself.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you. I keep myself on lockdown.

[Marcus Parks]

So now that Laurie and Chad had spent a night together, their shared delusions were taken to the next level. Lori told their mutual friend, podcaster Melanie Gibb, that Chad had built a spiritual portal in her closet so he could come visit her and that the two of them could commute ethereally whenever they want it. Lori also told Gibb that they had already begun fulfilling their mission. Partly this mission was to rid the world of evil spirits, AKA zombies. But the location of said zombies was still vague at this point. Chad could, however, say a special prayer and God would tell him how many zombies were in, say, Wyoming or Texas. He could tell you how many zombies were in each state.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But zombies?

[Marcus Parks]

No further than that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Zombie, zombie, zombie. Where are you, you zombie? Zombie, zombie, I'm coming for you. Zombie, zombie, zombie. Show yourself. Zombie, zombie, zombie. Give me zombies. God shows them to you. Yeah. Yep, it's very easy.

[Marcus Parks]

Shelf is the only word that rhymes with self. And that's one of my biggest pet peeves in songwriting. When someone rhymes self with shelf, I think it's lazy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It is.

[Marcus Parks]

Find a different word. Even I know, even Dylan did it, but find a different word.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He only. Whatever, man. Dylan's. And it's on his last legs.

[Marcus Parks]

He did it in like 1963.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Wow. This is. All of. This is very funny because she. This portal stuff Fully, entirely stolen from visions of glory.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, it is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And just that. How sad would you be opening up a stargate and Chad comes through. A magical portal opens, and a man.

[Ben Kissel]

His shirt off, he looks like a sand worm.

[Henry Zebrowski]

A man in Kmart chinos arrives through the sacred portal to rub on you until he comes his pants. That's it. That's your night. You sit, you watch Heroes Reborn, and then Chad rubs his front on you, and then he comes himself, and then he goes back in the portal home.

[Ben Kissel]

That'd be the worst. I'm just sitting there, like, was that assault, I think.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I didn't like that. I felt nothing.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, it's telling at this point that even Melanie Gibb, the host of a neo fundamentalist Mormon End Times podcast, was telling Lori that her and Chad's relationship was getting pretty extreme. Gibb even suggested that Chad might himself be a dark spirit. But Laurie famously said, quote, if Chad.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Is Satan, he sure is a good one.

[Ben Kissel]

But does she believe that there's multiple.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Satans she's full of.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Making it look as she goes along. Yeah. Now, even though Lori's beliefs were getting quite out there, she nevertheless made her podcast debut in November of 2018 on Melanie Gibbs Pat podcast. Time to warrior up. Yeah, there. All right, all you faithful, you tell.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You ready to warrior up, you warrior face on. And let's go see Clifford the Movie about the big red dog. Yeah, I would.

[Ben Kissel]

If this was hosted by the ultimate warrior, I would listen.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, of course. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He actually had a much more genuine Christ moment than many of these people.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, on this podcast appearance, Lori openly discussed her sacred mission with Chad. The mission to begin gathering the144,000 faithful for the End Times. What's extremely important to keep in mind here, though, is that when Lori Valo made this appearance, it had been at most about a month and a half since she'd met Chad Dabel at the Pap conference, meaning Lori was all in from the word go.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That denim must have felt great.

[Marcus Parks]

Soon after her podcast appearance, Lori began sending her family members boxes of survival food supplies, whether they wanted it or not. And this seems to be one of the precipitating events that finally raised the eyebrows of her brother Adam, AKA Bo. Nasty and Bonasty began texting Charles Valow asking what the was going on with Lori.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hey, Charles, buddy, what is going on? I am receiving all sorts of crazy messages from my. From my sister. It's absolutely nothing. Tell me, Charles, have you ever had sex with a black chick?

[Ben Kissel]

I think sending survival Supplies is nice.

[Marcus Parks]

It's nice.

[Ben Kissel]

But I take it if you say, I wouldn't think anything weird if you bought me like a bunch of tack.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Or something because you're an accepting person. I don't want anybody showing up with the hello fresh thanks to show up and say, here's the hello fresh for the apocalypse you need. This is for the apocalypse? Yeah, I mean, like, this is not what. That's it. That's what's scary.

[Marcus Parks]

It's worrying. It's a very worrying behavior.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And also Mel, again, Melon Gibb, Absolutely, utterly hypocrite and full of. She had them when they had the show together. So Lori was her co host. And this podcast, I got it, I listened to it. Yeah, it's not good, honestly. For the end times and the goddesses and shit. Bad mics, bad editing. It's all garbage. Garbage. They're bad at it.

[Marcus Parks]

They're horrible mics. The sound quality is God awful.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And they talk to Chad Daybell like he's the hottest guy in the room. They are so like, oh my God. Oh, Chad's here. But Chad tells them an entirely different story than is in his book, than is anything. He tells them all about how he's been hanging out with Jesus Christ since he was a little boy, that he's been hanging and then Jesus Christ, he has a full broad laugh. He looks at you like a brother, but he hangs out with you like a father. But he'll teach you how to shave like an uncle. Like, he says like these weird things where he's like, hanging out with Jesus Christ and they're all like, wow, oh my God. Oh, that's amazing. Like talking to a girl in LA and telling them that you have a jet.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, no, it's. It is what I was talking about earlier. It's yes, ending each other into oblivion. That's what these people are doing every single time they get together.

[Ben Kissel]

Papcat. That would have been good.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes, Much better name. My God, a much better name.

[Marcus Parks]

Much better name.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because you are a professional podcaster.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, I'm hireable.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I heard that the Mormon Church is sitting on about 56 billion and they want to have their own podcast network now.

[Marcus Parks]

Laurie had become so obsessed with Chad Daybell, the podcaster Melanie Gibb finally began saying it. Just shut the up and divorce your spouses and be done with it. Tellingly, though, Laurie told Melanie that divorce was forbidden. Although Lori would later say that she just didn't want a fourth divorce under her belt. But Laurie did say that she and Chad had secretly sealed themselves together for all eternity in a Mormon temple. And I think this is the moment when they. Right around the time that she had her appearance on the podcast. That's what she means by sealing themselves together. Together for eternity.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I think you were exactly on the money. And they did it on purpose. They did it because they thought that they were extra, extra special.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, their, their vibration is higher than everybody else. They don't have to. So the rules of like you can't in a temple don't apply to them.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I just feel like it's got to be the least place ever.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't know, man.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's the thing.

[Marcus Parks]

The least place ever. Sometimes the most you want to place.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I guess you're right. But I just like, you know, even that like idea of having sex in a church just makes me not feel good. Even though I wanted to file it, but I wanted to file it in other ways, you know, like, I feel like there's other better ways, like joker makeup on the crucifix and, and it's going like the devil was here and other weird, dumb, you know, kind of infantile what a 13 year old would do. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Churches are for jerking off. Everyone knows that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you.

[Ben Kissel]

How many pumps, by the way, do you think he got in her?

[Henry Zebrowski]

A one, a two, a three? Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

Nolori was definitely all in. But it doesn't seem like Chad was quite as committed. See, In December of 2018, about two months after Chad and Lori met, Chad had a business breakfast with his biggest selling near death experience author, Julie Row. Afterward, Chad suggested they have a so called private energy healing session at Chad's house in Rexburg. During that session, Chad allegedly sexually assaulted Julie Rowe. Although the details on what happened are vague, what Rowe did say was that after the assault, Chad started crying. She never saw Chad face to face ever again. But he did send her several apologies over a series of increasing, seemingly emotional texts.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Damn.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

That wasn't in the doc.

[Marcus Parks]

No, it was not exclusive. Well, I mean, it's from the book.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And they talk about it and she like, think about this. You get sexually assaulted and then you got to make the guy that sexually assaulted you feel better. Like you are literally he starts crying, you have to make it feel better for him. And then he apologizes over and over and over again. But I think what this was, was honestly kind of what I was saying with what will happen with Tammy is that this sexual assault was his first attempt at sort of I'll make either a family A polygamous family, like I will have multiple wives or this is his. Let's see how far my powers go. Yeah, let's see if I can. I just got sex. I just got extramarital sex for the first time.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I mean, it's certainly rooted in power, like, you know, rape is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But that's what he's done, right? He's finally popped. He finally popped his collar with Lori.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And then he gets to now with Julie Row. I think he's going to try to just, oh, wow, maybe I could do this again with my other girlfriend. And she was not into it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

So you think Lori is the first person he cheated on Tammy with?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, he had.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Had.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, we'll get into that here in a second. But yeah, I think the physically, definitely the first person he cheated.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She was the first one I put the letter in the envelope in.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, by the beginning of 2019, Chad and Laurie were speaking or texting Digley on their burner phones. And it's over the course of this particular year that they would create the conditions in their fantasy world to justify the four murders that made them infamous. Now, I don't know if Chad's plan was to get rid of Laurie's husband, Charles Vallow, through murder all along, because honestly, like most end times prophets, I'm not even sure if Chad really ever had a concrete plan other than some vague future notion of a new Jerusalem. Jerusalem. But what we do know is that pretty soon after Chad and Lori began talking, Lori was telling her friends that Charles was blocking her spiritual gifts. Before Chad, Lori had never said a bad word about Charles. Because if you'll remember, Charles Vallow started at three light when Chad did his first spiritual suss out. But within just a couple months, Charles's light spirit number shifted to the dark side. Once Chad's number shifted, Lori was claiming that she had a revelation that Charles was gonna die in a car crash by the end of 2018, I suppose, trying to will it into existence. But she was quite disappointed when her husband rang in the new year, still very much alive.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Remember that in the world of Mormon heroes and warriors, in the end times, they don't have time for why wives and husbands and children, they talk about this in visions of glory. The idea is that the time the tribulations will come. And during the tribulations, there is no time for these things. Only those that are, they have to sacrifice. Like Lori Vallow says that she believed Jesus Christ told her specifically, your life is going to be like Job's and you're going to lose everything and that's the only way for you to spiritually advance. So in some ways I do believe, believe there is a little bit of it. The way it starts is the floating Tammy's gonna die soon, JJ's not gonna live long, Charles Valo's gonna die soon. Because at first I do think on some level they think that they're gonna make it happen.

[Marcus Parks]

They're gonna manifest.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They're gonna manifest it. But because, but they're, because they, they weren't ready to go for it until they then decided that they have pushed themselves far enough. But they have it just help if you have a psychopathic brother that you can use.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it really does. Well, that's the thing that Lori may have learned about the car crash revelation manifestation from Chad. See, even before Chad Dabel met Lori Valow, he was telling his colleagues that he was having visions of his wife Tammy dying in a car accident during a snowstorm. Chad was having these so called visions right around the same time that he started getting attention from women at these new age conferences. And Chad admitted that prior to his relationship with Lori, he had a brief emotional affair with one of his groupies over the phone. So from what it seems like to me, Chad Daybell was at the very least hoping for his wife's death from the moment he started getting positive attention from women. And I think the whole slug zombie thing was just as much about justifying the murder of his own wife as it was about justifying the murder of Lori's husband. But really that's all to say that it was only a matter of time before these two people, people who believed that they were above the laws of both God and man, man, only a matter of time before they took matters into their own hands.

[Ben Kissel]

They're Mormon. Why not just right go with the.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Whole polygamy thing because those are, that has been disallowed by the Mormon Church. So that is.

[Marcus Parks]

But these people are also like, I mean they're going away from everything. Like they're, they're not really worried about anything. And because the thing is about polygamy is that the women have to say yes. Yeah, they have to agree to it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And the man. I mean this in, in the, the. And this is just impractical. I mean this. He has to be able to afford. Afford it. He has to be able to. And he's in a way, he's got to have some kind of charm about him. And this is where Natalie and I disagree when we talk about this topic all the time is that I think he was actively trying to have multiple wives. I think he really wanted to have multiple wives. And I think it just wouldn't take because he has the riz of a fire hydrant. Literally not someone neck. He can't swing it.

[Marcus Parks]

He's no Cody. He doesn't have that curly hair and that smile and whatever job allows him to own three houses in Las Vegas.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Obviously he doesn't have the. The leathery charm of a Warren Jeff. Sort of the absolutely delicious nature of a Tim Ballard. There's a lot of people that think, you know, it's hard. It's hard to have that kind of charisma.

[Marcus Parks]

Now in 2019 began. Oh, Riz, charisma.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's how I learned to use it.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

By thinking of the root word.

[Marcus Parks]

By thinking of the word you could just use. Anyway, see?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, no, it's called slang, my brother, man. Guess what, man, guess what? Slang can be all that and a bag of chips. Cuz that's what I've learned about slangs. That can make you sound pretty good.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Wow, that's the bomb.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, it is, my brother, man. Groovy. Yeah. Hell yeah. That's Boss.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, when 2019 began, Chad started off the year with a bang by revealing that Charles Vallow's body had fully been taken over by an unclean demonic spirit.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yo, God. By who? Who was it be? Izebel? Huh? Was it Azazel? Huh? Was it Leviathan? The Great serpent?

[Marcus Parks]

Close. It was Nick Schneider.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hello, Father Michael. It is I, your ancient villain, Nick Schneider. Hi. Hello. Yes, I work in sales. Yep. Hi. Hello. This is my wife, Betty Schneider. This is my two kids, Nick Schneider Jr. And Flick Schneider. I sell water. It's pretty easy to do. I do it with my mouth.

[Marcus Parks]

We're originally from Altoona, but we've been living here in Albany for about five years now.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So when did you move into Charles?

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Nick Schneider, according to Chad, this was an old friend of Charles Valo's who had died. But Nick's spirit had been wandering limbo as a demon ever since.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Why you maligning Nick? What Nick do?

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Nick Schneider had finally managed to take root in Charles's body as a slug in late 2018 or early 2019. And Charles was therefore now a zombie. Zombie.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Also, I. This is a seed I want to plant here too. Is remember that they're Mormons. So every single time they try to cover up a crime or try to do anything in a secular way, they're doing it from a Mormon uneducated on the secular world perspective.

[Marcus Parks]

Sheltered perspective.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. And so they like. I also think that part of the naming thing is like while yes, it was a part of their lore, I do believe it was a ham fist twisted way or they believed of creating some form of plausible deniability as they spoke about it to each other over texts and over the phone.

[Marcus Parks]

No, it's like when you used to like text your drug dealer and they're like, hey, do you have any watermelons? Oh wait, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's like the FBI is watching you being like the weeds on his move to the 229Mouser again. And we don't care. From your grave. T mobile 5G home Internet keeps getting better.

[Ben Kissel]

Get our fastest connection loaded with benefits.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Get T Mobile's best home Internet starting at 55 bucks a month with auto.

[Marcus Parks]

Pay in any voice line plus price lock.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We won't raise your rate on Internet. Check availability@t mobile.com Internet exclusions like taxes and fees apply. Guarantees, regular monthly rate, plan price of fixed wireless 5G Internet data with qualifying service after 15 bill credit with postpaid.

[Marcus Parks]

Voice line plus $5 a month without.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Auto pay with debit or bank account. Regulatory fees included for qualifying accounts. $35 connection charge applies. Speeds vary due to factors affecting cellular networks.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh yeah, my Coop sleep Good pillow. Feeling nice. Oh, yeah. This almost feels illegal the way I'm grabbing this pillow and it's so cool and nice and it's got signature adjustability and I can add remove from the pillow to create create extra loft that supports my body's natural neck and spinal alignment. Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Ooh, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Man, I can't wait to sleep. Take Coop's sleep quiz to find out your perfect pillow. All right. Maybe it's the original adjustable pillow cutout designed for side sleepers. Or maybe it's the Eden Cool plus adjustable pillow, classic shape. Oh, a game changer for hot sleepers. That's me. I run hot, hot like a furnace. You know, I'm like a big old heat and rock. But luckily I'm married to a lizard woman and she loves me.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And thank you, Coop, for keeping me.

[Ben Kissel]

Cool and keeping my hot body cool. All right. Eating Cool plus adjustable pillow. Yes, thank you. Customize your sleep and take care of yourself because if you don't, don't sleep, you're going to wake up mad. You're going to be mad about it. You're going to be a jerk to everybody. No one likes a sleepless jerk. So visit coopsleepgoods.com left to get 20% off your first order. That's C O O P sleepgoods.com left I feel so.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It'S always nice to keep your money where you can see it. I want my money to sit in a big pile of silver rocks that I sit upon and if you want get it from me, you have to kill me. But not everyone's like me. See, traditional big wireless carriers also seem they like to keep your money too. And that drives me quaazy. If you're tired of high wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks that actually cost more on the long long run, you're going to want to switch to Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile offers premium plans starting at 15 per month with high speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. Plus you can keep your phone and number along with all your contacts. Lucky you, you'll never miss a text when you're on Mint Mobile because it is everywhere ubiquitous. Like the pain of being man. Go and save your money with Mint Mobile. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] lpotl that's mintmobile.com lpotl upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first 3 months only then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[Marcus Parks]

A couple of weeks after the Nick Schneider reveal, Chad turned up the volume again when he emailed Lori a list of the seven missions. Everything's seven. Seven missions that they had to accomplish together to prepare themselves for the end times and prepare Rexburg, Idaho as the new Jerusalem.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Still needs some work.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Look I did a Google street view.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's around this time that Chad up like all millenarians do when he revealed the approximate date when the end times would begin. July of 2020.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Whoa.

[Marcus Parks]

But Chad did this for the same reasons his forebears did. To introduce urgency. Because if what he said was true, he and Lori only had a year and a half to get all this done. It also keeps you from thinking things through.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Of course.

[Marcus Parks]

Amongst other tasks, Chad and Lori needed to translate ancient records establish the presidency of the Church of the Firstborn.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I was going to say that.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, provide supplies and organize food distributions as the tribulation starts.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Of course.

[Marcus Parks]

Of course have to and identify locations in northeastern Arizona for so called white camps where other end time survivors would live. And on top of all that, Chad and Lori also had to write A book together. Although the multiple murders would definitely get in the way of them putting together anything suitable for publication.

[Ben Kissel]

Always a book.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Always. And the answer was right in front of them. And streaming. Yeah, the answer was in front of them. They should have just laid into the podcast thing. Do you have any idea how much more money and clout you could have gotten just leaning into the podcasting world? Mormon drama, Drama. People want to hear it. You want to hear about all the different ways you soak. That's what they want to hear. People want to hear. There's a market for it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, how it was for you guys? The book was way more successful than the podcast.

[Marcus Parks]

Right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It only took three years.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it only took three years of my life. I just lost. No, no, I lost like the middle of my 30s. I lost the cowman. The band that I was in for 10 years. Had to give that up. You didn't lose Neph.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You got rid of them. Yeah, in a way. Yeah. But you didn't lose them.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, didn't. And then Covid. Congratulations.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thanks.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you. Thank you. I still have the a fun newspaper clipping in my fucking closet.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It was a big deal for us. We were on the New York Times bestseller.

[Marcus Parks]

That was the newspaper clipping.

[Ben Kissel]

What is that?

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a big deal. It's a big deal to some last.

[Ben Kissel]

Book on the left. Go ahead and purchase it, please.

[Marcus Parks]

Please go buy it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We're still getting. Get it on Amazon, please. Yeah, my favorite place.

[Marcus Parks]

No, don't get it. Don't get it on Amazon.

[Ben Kissel]

Barnes and Noble.

[Marcus Parks]

Indie bound.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, Indie bound. That's it. That's what we were trying to remember the other day.

[Marcus Parks]

Indie bound. Now, Chad Day Bell's mini cult began to quickly grow. Soon after, Chad upped the stakes once again with all the instructions and such. But as it turned out, Lori Valo was actually Chad's most effective recruiter, tutor, and spokesperson. The majority of the people Lori brought into the cult, however, were from her own family. First to join was Alex Cox. Remember, Alex had already attempted to murder Lori's ex husband over 10 years earlier on Lori's command. Alex did pretty much whatever Lori told him to do, and he joined willingly after being indoctrinated by the Preparing of People and a Vow podcast, which he listened to obsessively for hours on end while working as a truck driver. Next was Lori Valo's niece, Melanie Boudreaux, and her husband Brandon. Melanie was the daughter of Lori sister Stacy, the one who died from the eating disorder. Melanie's Father had tried to keep her away from the Cox family, but Melanie had reconnected with Aunt Lori as an adult and had quickly been turned into a Chad Daybell follower.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Alex Cox also had nothing going on.

[Marcus Parks]

He's just a truck driver. He's just a truck driver with a, a bad facial hair, bald head and a pot belly.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, truck driver drivers. To be honest, he gives a bad name to truck drivers. Yeah. Because it's a great job for a loner that wants to be away from his family.

[Ben Kissel]

They also would shut down the country if all they all quit at the same time.

[Marcus Parks]

They absolutely would.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It was me. It would be devastating. Alex Cox was so happy to get pulled into the ranks. He was so happy to have a role because do you think in some ways he saw more of Lori's body than Chad did before they met? You know, like.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, I would say so. That you saw it in a bikini all the time. She's always, you know, flaunting in front of him. So yeah, she definitely saw more of a, he definitely saw more of Lori's body than Chad did.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Lucky brother. That's a lucky brother. Remember also, as you talk about this, they all got the same fucking names. Mormons have the worst names.

[Marcus Parks]

Okay, well, I was about to go through that. Yeah, I mean, you know, you, outside of Lori's family, you had the original Melanie. Melanie Gibb from the Preparing of People podcast network. There's Melanie with an E and Melanie with an I.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Shut up.

[Marcus Parks]

Melanie with an E, that's the podcaster. Melanie with an I, that's Lori's niece.

[Ben Kissel]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

But Gib wasn't the only PAT member to join what was becoming a sort of inner circle. Lastly, Chad and Lori were joined by a self described emotional code practitioner named Zulema Pastanis.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Sweet, sweet, stupid, stupid Zulema. Zulema is by far, I'm gonna say.

[Marcus Parks]

Zulema just kind of zma. I, I, I have conflicting feelings about zma. Cuz ZMA is a joiner.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She's a joiner. That's a good term for her.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, she's a joiner. She was, I think, looking for a community and looking for people to tell her that she was important. And these were unfortunately the people that she found. She was a little older than everyone else. She's 55 years old. Everyone else in the cult, like they're on podcasts all the time. Z is just a fan, you know, she's, she's a listener and she'd become obsessed with the end times and Chad Daybell she also big fan of Denver C. Snuffer Jr. We all are.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We all are.

[Marcus Parks]

The end times author.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah. But Zulema, if you watch her, she's my favorite of them. Because if you watch her, she's the Fredo. I'd put her in the closest. She's the Fredo of the group. Maybe.

[Marcus Parks]

But that's the thing, is that Fredo was still, like, evil. Like, Fredo still did, like, bad.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He got passed over.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, he got. But he still. He did really like Zulema, actually, kind of. It's like, you know when someone runs a red light and somehow all of the cars just kind of pass by them and. And they just somehow manage to survive.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean, she's like, yeah, that's. Yeah, that.

[Marcus Parks]

Is that literally that dilemma. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Unbothered in her lane. Absolutely stupid.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And just nothing, nothing, nothing hits her.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, bouncing off the skull, I'd say close to it if she could see. And she just too dumb to find her way around.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, Lori had attempted to recruit her other brother Adam, into Chad's sphere of influence. Adam, of course, DJ Bo Nasty. But while Adam was kind of a shitty dude, owing to the whole radio stunt that killed a woman that he felt no remorse for, he still had a bit more of a head on his shoulders than the rest of his siblings.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Let's just say I'm still feeling some of those letters from the last time.

[Marcus Parks]

See, Adam was rightfully a little weirded out when his younger sister told him that she was an immortal being who no longer needed to eat or go to the bathroom.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So you ain't go to bathroom, sis. Wow, that's wild. You ever heard this? This is a great old clip you got get into it. It's Drops of Jupiter. You're gonna feature the incredible. The incredible lyrics of Train.

[Ben Kissel]

And if you're ever thinking about going to the bathroom, do it on air.

[Marcus Parks]

Ladies and gentlemen, it looks like we have a caller, and it's my sister Lori. It sounds like she's finally going to the bathroom. Can we get a little bit of a. A microphone in there, Peabody?

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a pee bot.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, my God. That's my sister Lori. She' that's right, Mr. Scream. Adam also definitely incredulous when Laurie claimed that if she was shot, the bullet would pass through her body without hurting her. Also distressed by Laurie's claim that she could see spirits walking around her house and that she had a particularly aggressive encounter with the devil in which they'd screamed at each other about God's Knows what?

[Ben Kissel]

Probably where to set the thermostat.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That is the hardest you ever even tried to negotiate with the devil. Because I.

[Marcus Parks]

This next song goes out to my sister Lori. It's Molly crew with Shout Shout Shout at the devil. I'd still be doing that if radio hadn't have been murdered in the mid 2000s.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hey, that was the ST. It was the special sauce man. He's still about that. They're still out there.

[Ben Kissel]

Ironically, you are part of the problem of killing radio.

[Marcus Parks]

No, I held on as long as I possibly could before coming over to the other side. Radio died about 10 years before podcast came along. Yeah, no, no, it was the Telecommunications act of 1996. If you want, I can give you a whole presentation on it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'll release me.

[Ben Kissel]

I would like the presentation and I will sit through it after this.

[Marcus Parks]

Sounds good. All right. Now, Adam was the only person in Lori's family to really sound the alarm that something was wrong with Lori. And he was the only one who had listened to Charles Valow when Charles said that his wife was losing her grip on reality. Charles's text to his brother in law, however, would not prevent Charles from being murdered. And prosecutors would later allege that it was actually Chad Daybell who masterminded the entire plan to kill Charles from beginning to end. Although I think his murder was very much a collaboration.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh yes.

[Marcus Parks]

So the plan to kill Charles was certainly a long term scheme. From what it seems like Chad and Laurie were trying to provoke Charles Vallow into committing an act of violence by dismantling his life. An act that then could be met with deadly self defense. But Charles Valo was not a violent man. So Laurie very much had to create the conditions that would drive him to lose his mind completely. They did, however, still need religious justification for killing Charles, which Chad had already provided. See, Laurie fully believed, or at least wanted to believe by this point that her husband was a zombie, which fulfilled an important purpose. Instead of being a woman with four divorces and five marriages or worse, a simple murder murderer, Lori Vallow could reframe herself as a warrior for Christ. And Chad could do the same. Just so long as everyone they killed was a zombie possessed by the devil. Then the opening volley leading up to Charles's Death came on January 29, 2019, while Charles was in Houston, Texas on a business trip. As soon as Charles's plane took off from Phoenix, Lori transferred $35,000 from their joint bank account into a personal one that only she could access. So by the time Charles landed in Hous he had no more than $7 to his name.

[Ben Kissel]

Just like most people in Houston.

[Marcus Parks]

Lori also didn't waste any time in telling Charles what she'd done. As soon as his plane landed, she called him on his cell phone and told him that she'd not only taken all his money, but that she was now a God. Gathering the 144, 000 for the second coming, due to arrive July 2020.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, I'm currently waiting for my Uber right now. Maybe we can talk about this when I get to the hotel.

[Marcus Parks]

While Charles tried to reply bewildered, Laurie kept referring to him over and over again as Nick Schneider, the demon slug. She told her husband that she knew he wasn't Charles anymore, and because of the spiritual guidance Chad had given her, she could now murder Charles with her spiritual powers if he didn't leave her alone. She then hung up and left Charles stranded in Houston with $7 to his name after absolutely shattering his life over the course of one phone call.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And now for the rest of the episode, we're going to cover Charles's skyrocket to the top of the country music scene as he arrived in Houston with nothing but $7 in his pocket, a goddess on the run, and his guitar. This is. It's weird, right? Because this is where if you listen to the prosecutor talk about this, this is where we start to see how crazy is Lori.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because what she'll do is some very cognizant, like, of the world moves. It's all about money. She's immediately going for the money. This is all about the money. Like, this is like maybe kind of many ways. It was all about the money. And all of this is even just cover for all of the horrible things that they did.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, she needed money in order to like, keep looking the way she looked and going to Hawaii all the goddamn time.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She didn't look that good.

[Ben Kissel]

She spent a lot of money on her hair and face, though.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Dud, that, that, that bleach blonde hair. That ain't cheap.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, I know, I know it costs money, but it's also like hers wasn't that good. I've actually now come around that I upon looking up about as much as I've looked at her face. She. She's not as attractive. No, no, she's. She's bad.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why you ever. Yeah. Thank you. That's. That's great. I mean, it's great. I don't know why it took you years of staring at her face to realize that sometimes it does Does Okay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because sometimes it's the opposite. Yeah, you fall in love with somebody over time, man. But I've fallen out of love with her because she's. Honestly, prison is not doing well for her.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, that's moisturizer. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Lori not content with taking all of Charles's money. She then drove to the Phoenix airport with her cult friend Melanie Gibb and used a spare key to steal Charles's truck from long term parking. Then drove that truck to a friend's house without telling Charles where it was.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah, they were already. So they were having a blast hurting Mel. Any good?

[Marcus Parks]

Finally, Lori canceled Charles's return plane ticket, had a locksmith change all the locks in their shared home, and she hid all of Charles's belongings behind survival food buckets in a closet. Lori then took her children, JJ and Ty to stay at a local Hyatt.

[Ben Kissel]

That a Hyatt?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know. Tell me about it.

[Ben Kissel]

Boy, people, come on.

[Henry Zebrowski]

If you're going to kill your kids, you do it in the right place. A Marriott.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, Charles was understandably upset about all this because he was still very much in love with Laurie for whatever reason. And that's not even to mention the fact that Laurie was at the time in custody of their adopted child. Jj. It's just imagine what's going through this guy's head. He's a thousand miles away in Houston. He's in two states away, and his wife has just called him to tell her that she is a God.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, and that she's in care of a disabled little boy. Like, it's not fun.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That is. That's also. I do want to remind the audience is that JJ was significantly disabled. Like, yeah, significantly. Like, he had a lot of health issues. And so it's very, very scary. Where the hell did he disappear to?

[Ben Kissel]

Also, like, how checked out do you have to be to let it go this far without saying anything?

[Henry Zebrowski]

This did really. I will say in Charles, on Charles Valo behalf. The temperature rose fairly quickly. You're literally talking over only a couple of months. Like, this has really went. This went from kind of just some fascination of hers into a constant talking point of hers. And it is just. It is now at a full boil.

[Ben Kissel]

And you're just kind of hoping it gets better.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, I just think. You don't think anybody's going to kill their kids.

[Marcus Parks]

No, of course not. And. And as far as, like, him like this going on for a long time, we'll get into it a little bit. Like, how long he was concerned For. But I do think you hit upon something when you said, like, he was just kind of hoping it would get better. And he, I think he was just sort of hoping that she was going to come around eventually and she's going to leave all this stuff behind. But Henry said like, yeah, the volume gets turned up really, really fucking fast here. So Charles understandably upset and worried. He called Laurie the next day and had a friend listen in. A fellow Mormon named Gabe Bonilla. Whoa. Yeah. The only other Bonilla I've ever heard. Yeah, Gabe Bonilla.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

Gabriel Bonilla.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh man, that's amazing. He's not no relation as far as I know. Let's look it up.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, on that call, Bonilla heard Lori threaten to, quote, unquote, destroy Charles and told not to bother coming home.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, wait.

[Marcus Parks]

Ah, not, not related. Well, as far as the kids went, Lori said that Charles could have JJ because she didn't want him anymore. In fact, Lori seemed to never really care about JJ at all because multiple people reported that Lori referred to JJ over and over again as a drug baby because both of his parents had been addicts. Charles may have gotten a loan from Gabe Bonilla because before long he had enough money for a return ticket to Arizona. Once arrived, he took a cab to the local mental health facility and got an emergency petition to get Lori held for a 72 hour observation. But once he got home and found that all the locks had been changed, he called the police to ask for a welfare check on the kids, Tyler and jj. Now, if you've never seen the body cam footage that shows the cop speaking with Charles Valow that night outside of his house, it is chilling.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I think it's key to understanding this story is to watch the body cam footage of all of the instances because it's very, very important, because you really see how they were fucking railroaded by the police as well.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you can see Charles firsthand in an utterly baffled state telling cops that his wife has lost her mind, that she believes she's a resurrected being, believes she's a God, and that she wholeheartedly believes that Charles had been replaced by a demon named Nick Schneider. Unfortunately, though, Charles saying all this out loud to the cops made Charles sound crazy. And you could hear the skepticism in the voice of the cop talking to him.

[Ben Kissel]

Of course I would have been like that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh yeah, you're a demon named Nick Schneider.

[Marcus Parks]

No, my wife believes that I'm a demon named Nick Schneider.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay, so do I call you Mr. Schneider?

[Marcus Parks]

I don't believe it. My wife Believes that I am. And she also believes that she's a God and that she's going to leave 144,000, by the way, were LDS.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, thank you. Sorry about that.

[Marcus Parks]

He did actually say that in the, like, as if it was going to explain something. When he's talking to the cops, he goes like, you know what he says? Like, yeah, you know, she thinks that she's a God. She thinks that she's part of the 144,000. We're LDs, by the way. She thinks I'm a demon. Like, I don't know why he put that in there because he knows it's crazy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I do think it's because.

[Marcus Parks]

Because he's also. Remember, he's also converted.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. But I think that when you're converted, let's just put it this way, way. He's. He's a Mormon and he's a practicing Mormon. But it's again, a lot of these things and they talk about he's on the spectrum. He's probably on the lighter end of the spectrum. These guys are talking about, like, he wants the cop to know, like, you probably hear from crazy people from our church all the time. Yeah, I think that there's a lot of that being like, I'm one of the normal ones. If you think about this, you. He probably says that because of all of the various controversies they've been around fringe Mormon groups in these areas.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. But the most important statement that Charles made to that cop, and this is kind of addressing what you said earlier, Eddie, was that Lori Valo had been on a steady downward slope for about four or five years. And I think this is key to understanding this whole story. What this tells me is that Lori Valo was not brainwashed by Chad Daybell into becoming a monster. Lori Valow came red ready made from the Mormon fringe, and she'd been waiting for someone like Chad to finally come along and unleash her upon the world. In other words, I truly do believe that it was Lori and Chad together who created the conditions that led to four murders. But not just them alone. The other people responsible here are all the other neo fundamentalist Mormons who encourage them every step of the way. Now, when the cops came to Charles's house that night, he did tell them that Lori had threatened to murder him. But when the cops asked what Laurie said specifically, specifically, Charles admitted that she didn't use the word murder per se. Instead, Lori had said that she would destroy him, which is apparently too vague for the cops. The officer on the scene Just sort of shrugged and said that Lori's statement wasn't a direct threat, so there was nothing the cops could do. Furthermore, because of their marital status, nothing Lori had done was technically a crime. Transferring the money, stealing Charles's truck. All this stuff is in both their names. She hadn't done anything wrong as far as the law was. Was concerned. So the cops basically said, good luck with the mental health hold and left Charles to deal with Lori on his own.

[Ben Kissel]

And this is exactly why I don't think Lori's crazy.

[Marcus Parks]

She's not.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She's not.

[Ben Kissel]

She's all. It's all what she's doing is crazy. Yes, but it's all very calculated. It's all like she knows exactly what words to say to skirt around the law, the things that she's allowed to do. She knows she's allowed to change the locks. She knows she's allowed to take the card.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She looked it up. She definitely researched it. And the cops have this, like, it's. You know, it's. It's because they look at Charles Valow. He's a big guy. He's a big, strong guy.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You look at Lori Valo.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, they haven't seen Lori Valo at.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This point, but they also. They're giving him the. You're having problems with the chick kind of vibe.

[Marcus Parks]

They're definitely giving it that vibe.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, you think that, oh, you're. Some chick's gonna come and kill you. It's being like, bro, you need to start taking women more seriously. They kill every day. Okay? Women are just as dangerous as the rest of. Okay, we have to start putting women in jail often.

[Marcus Parks]

I think we already do that. Quite high rates.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, but, you know, but I think.

[Ben Kissel]

That'S just a lot of times there's like, a man who's doing the bad thing and the woman takes the fall.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They gotta catch up. This is about them catching up.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, Charles was getting increasingly desperate, so he showed up to JJ's school the next morning. When Lori drove up and took JJ inside, Charles stole Lori's phone and purse, possibly to gain some sort of control over the situation. Later that day, Lori, along with podcaster Melanie Gibb and her daughter Tyler, they showed up at the police station to report Charles for theft and to give their own version of events. The footage of Lori's interview, however, is just as chilling as watching Charles list Lori's delusions, but for entirely different reasons. See, Lori Valo played the perfectly reasonable yet defiant Fox News hot wife, and she easily charmed the officer. She Spoke with. Just as Lori was able to charm almost every cop she came into contact with until the very end.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You and I talked about this on our call, and there's something about. It's a style of flirting.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That makes cops fall apart.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There is a style of big, like, haired woman.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, it is. It's. It is a. A combination of toughness and submissiveness.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well.

[Marcus Parks]

Because if you can put those two things together, if you can show, like, I'm a tough chick, but also I'll do whatever. Whatever you say, then a cop is going to just fall forward immediately.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. Pretending like you got nothing to hide.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But she's laughing it all off. Well, that, to me, is the most utterly concerning part of it, which the cops just. It just bounces off of them, where the cops just. They are talking, where she does this thing. We talked about this. Where it's a type of flirting where a lady presses her hand completely between a man's tits all the time, like, touching his chest, going, don't touch.

[Marcus Parks]

Don't touch me. Don't. Not today.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's nice that you can see. That's what it does. And they all melt.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, they do. They absolutely melt. Lori Valow knew she knows how to manipulate authority figures. Knows very well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I think I could flirt pretty well if I had the right parts. Littler hands, bigger feet.

[Marcus Parks]

Huh?

[Ben Kissel]

Did you say flirt or fart?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Depends on what part of the country you're in.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Lori Valo presented herself during her interview with the cops as the victim of a cheating and manipulative husband. She claimed that she'd gotten into an argument with Charles and had taken her children to a hotel for safety, and Charles had stolen her phone so he could lure Melanie Gibb to his home for some unknown reason. But the whole time, Laurie stayed calm and collected, even making little jokes, like when she said she really only wanted her purse back because her best lip gloss was. Was in there. In fact, owing to her extreme arrogance, Lori Valow, to the best of my knowledge, has still not broken in front of a cop to this day.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She specifically will not give them the legit story. She only has given the legit story, technically, to Colby. The one time in that prison phone call. But the rest of it, or her version of the story. Yeah, she's given them nothing.

[Marcus Parks]

But as it was with Charles, the cops told Lori that there was really nothing they could do. But they did suggest she go for the psychiatric evaluation Charles had ordered just to get it out of the way. And so Lori Valow, in The midst of her largest delusions, got a full mental health evaluation and easily came out the other side with a clean bill.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, and we're going to see, like, later tonight, the interview with Lori Valow is going to air, and I saw a little preview of it that you sent me, Henry, and she's still acting the same way. Like, prison hasn't with her at all.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It seems like it's only emboldened her in many ways. She is getting a lot of attention from inmates.

[Marcus Parks]

Charles, however, had decided that enough was enough. Lori was still in possession of both kids, so Charles filed an order of protection against her, naming all of her wild claims, including the claim that she was going to kill him and have an angel dispose of his body. This, of course, was all in a bid to show how dangerous she was to JJ. Lori, meanwhile, had taken Tylee and JJ to stay with her psychopathic brother Alex, 30 miles away in San Tan Valley. And she. She'd stopped going to church so she couldn't be found. Finally, she did return JJ To Charles, but refused to hand over the child's medication out of pure spite. After that, Charles Valo filed for divorce and for custody of JJ completely broken. Then changed the beneficiary on his $1 million life insurance policy from Lori to his sister, Kay Woodcock. Charles was not, however, just doing this. Despite Laurie, it seems like Charles was trying in vain to save his own life because Charles had told his divorce attorney that if anything happened to him, the people responsible would be his wife and her brother, Alex. Charles's suspicion was confirmed when he tried changing the beneficiary himself through his insurance company's website and discovered that Lori had changed the password to his account.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Devilish. The most impossible, impossible obstacle.

[Marcus Parks]

Eventually, Charles, he just had to go to a notary, and he got the beneficiary change to his sister. But Lori was still under the impression that her childish password switcheroo had made it impossible for Charles to change beneficiaries. So she believed that when Charles died, she was going to get the big payout. Lori, meanwhile, was only becoming more erratic. She flew to Hawaii on February 10, claiming that she wanted to start over with $10,000 in cash, six burner phones, and a bundle of papers filled with conspiracies and the bizarre religious doctri she and Chad had concocted together. And it's also important to remember, every single day, Lori and Chad are texting each other, talking to each other about this thing and that thing and everything erotic, weird, light, dark levels, the end times, everything Every single day, Lori and Chad are texting.

[Ben Kissel]

Also, you're going to Maui. You need more than 10 grand.

[Marcus Parks]

Kawaii.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Actually, even that you need more money. Hawaii is expensive.

[Marcus Parks]

Once on the island, Lori tried a little recruiting when she met up with an old Mormon friend. This friend said that Lori talked incessantly about Chad Daybell, her past lives on other planets, and how she was a God with supernatural powers to eliminate evil. Now that worked great on the fringe Mormons from Pap and Eval, the people who were already primed to believe this stuff. But when you just pull it out during a lunch date, it sounds bonkers. Is. And so after Lori asked her friend if she wanted to abandon her family in Hawaii and move to Idaho to become one of the 144,000 Mormons who have been chosen to survive the end times, the friend politely declined.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I think I'll stay in paradise. But also, yeah, I don't know if this is all like, because my thing is I'm mostly just taking colloidal silver to not get measles. That's my belief system.

[Ben Kissel]

So your pineapples are potatoes?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes, yes, it's like that. It's great, right? They also have little spikes.

[Marcus Parks]

Now with the rejection of her friend in Hawaii, Lori's self given mission of gathering the 144,000 ostensibly her whole reason for existence. At this point, he was not off to a good start. And her plan for getting rid of Charles for good was getting wobbly as well. See, as it turned out, Chad Daybell was just as excited about that one million dollar life insurance policy as Lori was. So Chad convinced Lori to reconcile with Charles, however temporarily, to secure that policy. And so when Laurie reappeared in Arizona and went to Charles Valo acting like nothing had happened, Charles excitedly and sadly texted his friends, friends that quote, we have our Lori back.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They did though. They did have their lawyer back.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And Lori was going to make herself known.

[Marcus Parks]

But to me, that, that tells such a story. Oh yeah, because you know, Charles Vallow is texting his, his friends and his family. We have our Lori back. And it was like an exclamation point which tells me like there was definitely two sides to Lori Valo.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Of course.

[Marcus Parks]

Like there were two people. There were. She was living these two lives.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There were times they didn't work. Different person to each. Yeah, she was a chameleon. She changed the most. She was a different person to every single person that she spoke to. It just was like that.

[Ben Kissel]

It's also classic narcissist behavior to do something Horrible. Then show up and pretend like nothing happened.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's what. And she is as close to full on clinical narcissist as it gets. Right. Where she, she's physically unable to sort of understand any form of accountability.

[Marcus Parks]

And, you know, of course, and magical thinking is also like a massive part of narcissism. And so we always, the example we always give was Casey Anthony taking the cops to Universal Studios to tell, like, yeah, let's go to work. Like, okay, I'll take you, take us to where you work. Like, I work at Universal Studios. And she just walked them through the offices and everyone's looking around like, who the is this person? And then finally, Casey Anthony, like, gets to the end of a hallway and just has to turn around, go, like, I don't work here.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I never work.

[Marcus Parks]

Because she thought at some point something magical is going to happen, something's going to work out for Casey Anthony.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's just power. Power. It's that power of that confidence of just walking without a net. And this is. It's got to be really troubling for them.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because they, at this point, they're like, why hasn't Charles Vallow just dropped dead yet? Yeah, why hasn't this happened yet?

[Marcus Parks]

Very frustrating now. By the first week of April, Lori and Tyler had moved to Houston to join Charles and jj. And when podcaster Melanie Gibbs showed confusion, Laurie allayed her concerns by saying that God had told Laurie to get Charles's finances in order. This, for some reason, did not set off any alarm bells with Melanie, but it seems like Charles may not have trusted Lori completely because it appears as if he told her that she was still the beneficiary on his insurance policy, which of course was a lie. As a possible result, Lori left Charles after two months for the final time. She then moved back to Phoenix, where she doubled down on her mission with Chad.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is one of the texts that Chad sent during this time period to really just kind of how sad he was and how much he needed. Laurie, I'm home. Missing you immensely. Feeling very tired, but I had a splendid time with you, my love. Tonight I figured out who. I feel like I'm a grown up version of Harry Potter who has to live with the Dudleys in his little space under the stairs. Every few weeks, I get to escape and have amazing adventures with my goddess lover. But then I have to return to my place under the stairs feeling trapped. But I sense permanent freedom is coming.

[Marcus Parks]

That would be murder.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's. Everybody's dead.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

So he's. But he's so. He's more like Dobby.

[Henry Zebrowski]

According to some of Marcus's Instagram polls. He is very similar.

[Marcus Parks]

According to my guest go see my last man day and last stream on the left on, on our YouTube to see all about what Dobby's up to these days.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And let's just say he's generous with his time.

[Marcus Parks]

He's making debt.

[Ben Kissel]

Daybell man, sitting there pretending like he's Hufflepuff when he's really a goddamn Slytherin.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, bro, he's opposite. He's a Slytherin. He's a Hufflepuff who thinks he's a Slytherin.

[Marcus Parks]

Sure. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Girls, Funko baseballs for all of our.

[Marcus Parks]

Podcasts here on the Buzzfeed Network.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Super cutie.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, in cults, things usually start getting serious around the time that the leaders start fucking with their followers. Marriages. And in May of 2019, right on schedule, Chad and Lori began telling their followers to divorce their so called dark spirit spouses. Podcaster Melanie Gibb. That's Melanie with an e. She was the first to divorce.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yay.

[Marcus Parks]

While Lori's niece, Melanie Boudreaux. Melanie Felony with an eye, followed suit soon after. But as we know with cults, just getting people to divorce, that's just the first step.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

The big crossover to the other side is pairing people up.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And this is what's hard about the Mormon community is because on the whole, you. You know what, it's funny about the Mormons. I think they'd be hornier, but they're really not. They're not a horny people.

[Marcus Parks]

And I always talk about libido and such. They have a ton of kids.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's just because it's just making kids.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Coming inside of a person to make a child is a different form of fun. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But you got to come inside a lot.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Not some of these. I think a lot of them, their eggs are bigger. Some they have bigger, thicker eggs. I just think that they don't have a lot of fun. It's hard to get the cross going in a Mormon cult.

[Ben Kissel]

Isn't divorce not allowed in Mormonism?

[Henry Zebrowski]

We discovered this. It is. You can. But the thing is you are sealed. So no matter what, you end up on that planet, given to by your former husband. No matter what, you end up his. His spiritual slave after.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, after you die. Well, after podcaster Melanie Gibb was divorced from her husband, she was paired with a PAT member who'd moved to Rexburg with all the other pappers who. Who had been decided they were one of the chosen 144,000.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I hate these pappers. These peppers can absolutely go. Peppers.

[Marcus Parks]

I only wrote pappers. I. I hadn't said it out loud yet, and then when I said it out loud, I was like, that's fun. That's fun to say. Get. Put a smile on my face.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's what I called Chad Dayl's man. Breast his peppers. His pappers.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Jiggle your pappers. Slap him around. Useless nipples.

[Marcus Parks]

Alex Cox. Meanwhile, Lori's homicidal brother was paired with cult member Zulma Pastenas. And all of them were ordered to move to Rexburg as soon as possible to await the end times.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Ah, Rexburg, where the spiciest dish is ketchup.

[Marcus Parks]

Z, however, was not Chad and Lori's first pick for Alex. They had first tried to convince Lori's friend from Hawaii to marry him, but the friend said that Alex was, quote, too strange for her to even tolerate. That's a direct quote from her.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And she ended up thumbs down review. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And she ended up blocking his number.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. I think Alex is one of those guys that sends a lot of the g like, memes. Like family guy memes.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

He's always telling you how hot your wife is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah. Being like, lucky. What I'd do if I was you, huh? I'd be up in that ass. Right? Oh, you want extra, extra shine in the car, sir?

[Marcus Parks]

Now, out of all of Chad and Lori's followers, no one bought into their worldview with more gusto than Lori's brother Alex, soon after joining up.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Gusto.

[Marcus Parks]

Gusto.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's the word for Alex.

[Marcus Parks]

Gusto. He's got a lot of gusto.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He's got gusto.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Soon after joining up, Alex had also come to believe that Charles Valo's body had been taken over by a demon named Nick Schneider. That the good man that Charles had once been was now trapped, trapped in limbo. And Charles's zombie body would have to be destroyed to save Charles. As Laurie put it so manipulatively. To Alex, killing Charles would be a kindness.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I bet. Yeah, I bet it would. Right, sister? Let me see. Nipple. You see your belly button?

[Marcus Parks]

Malorian. Chad also spent a lot. Why is that funny?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I don't know why that killed me, baby. Oh, my God. Is that a hippo?

[Ben Kissel]

It's just like a man who's so attracted to his sister, but he just wants to see her belly button.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Just like, if I see any more.

[Marcus Parks]

He knows how far you can get.

[Henry Zebrowski]

If I see any more, I will be too distracted to kill her family now.

[Marcus Parks]

Lori and Chad also spent a lot of time building up their followers into believing that Charles was a zombie as well. They'd sit in their temple together and attempt to summon up spiritual forces to defeat him. And in a group text between Laurie, Melanie, Gibb, and Zulema, they actively tried to cause a car crash to kill Charles using their magical powers. Charles, meanwhile, had decided to introduce a little chaos of his own. But Charles's attempt to fight back was, without a doubt, the thing that finally got him killed. So even after Laurie had left Charles for the final time, Charles had been in regular contact with Laurie brother Adam, AKA Beau Nasty. And Charles had told Adam all about Laurie's delusions. By this point, Adam was the only person in the Cox family talking to Charles because Laurie had told everyone to not answer Charles's calls or texts because he was evil and he was out to get her. Adam, however, was fully on Charles's side, and the two of them were planning a full intervention for Laurie to hopefully shake her out of her delusions and to get her away from Chad.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Dabel and I thought the perfect thing to do that, my good buddy Chuck, is that we need to put together a rocking playlist that makes her understand how cool it is to be on the Earth. Right. First of all, you know, moving in Stereo has to be number one. Coming in at the top, the Cars with my favorite singer, Rick, Oasis. And then it has to be, we're gonna have to enter with a New York groove. Whenever I think favorites from Ace freely.

[Ben Kissel]

Don't forget Dr. Dr. News.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I got a bad case of loving you. It's going to cause me to kill your kids.

[Marcus Parks]

And don't forget, Lori, if you're really worried about being up there in that celestial palace, just remember, Heaven is a place on Earth. It's Melinda Carlile here on KHFI 99.7. Heaven is a place on Earth. But it's because of Charles's contact with Adam that we know what precipitated Charles's murder. It is complicated, I will admit, but we're going to do our best to make this as clear as possible. It's a bunch of morons running around doing stupid that's always confusing.

[Ben Kissel]

And there's Adam and Alex, and it's like, so many names close to each other. Bunch of Melanies.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. See, Charles had irrefutable proof that Lori and Chad were having an affair. And Charles told Adam that he was fully planning to inform Chad's wife, Tammy. All of this, of course, had come because of an idiotic ruse. Laurie had tried to pull this.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, this is. Again, they're bad at covering crimes.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Somehow, Lori was able to send a fake email to Chad posing as Charles. The email was asked, asking Chad to help Charles write a book as a ghostwriter. But remember the emails from Lori? And it's fake and it's not from Charles, but it appears as if it's from Charles.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's the set up, a reason for them to get together.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. The plan was for Chad to show this email to his wife Tammy, so he'd have an excuse to visit Lori in Arizona. I gotta go help this guy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I have to go write this book about jello recipes. You know what I like? You know, I like food that moves.

[Marcus Parks]

Charles, of course, saw the email and figured out what was going on. Hours after discovering the ruse, Charles sent another email directly to Tammy Daybell. Sent it to her work account.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, dirty.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. And told her that he had some, quote, vital and disturbing information about her husband, Chad and Charles's wife, Lori. Charles also wrote that since this was Tammy's work email, he would wait to send her. The evidence. Didn't want to get her in trouble.

[Ben Kissel]

So nice.

[Marcus Parks]

But investigators discovered that this email had been deleted and the sender was blocked. And since Tammy worked for Chad's publishing company.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

It's very likely that Chad Daybell was able to intercept Charles's message before it got to Tammy.

[Ben Kissel]

It's a. It's a good shot. He took a good shot.

[Marcus Parks]

He took a good shot.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Unfortunately, he didn't because he didn't know that she worked for his publication.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't think he knew that much about Chad.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I guess not.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't. I really don't think. I don't. First of all, I don't think Lori wanted to tell him, and I don't think he wanted to hear it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know what you got to do, though? This. Why, if you're doing this, it is good to blow it up like this. Do it in person, though.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

A fake letter from Publisher Clearinghouse showed.

[Marcus Parks]

Up at the door with a big check. And then they open up the envelope and it's your husband's cheating on you with my wife.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's also Mormons.

[Ben Kissel]

Right?

[Henry Zebrowski]

If it's Mormons, this is also what you can do. This is a freebie. You get yourself a table sheet, you cut a hole in it, stick your head through, spray paint your face white, get a couple of wings from the Halloween store. Arrive with a smoke machine. You're an angel giving some information from Jesus Christ. They're all going to fall. They're, they're just, they love it. They want just some effort in the lie.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

If you ever fire me, that's how I want you to do it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, I'm doing it as me. I'm doing it as the angel of death. I'm going to arrive, I'm going to wait you up from a dead sleep. We're going to play a game of chess.

[Marcus Parks]

And then I'll come in afterwards dressed as Benjamin Franklin to soften the blow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. Just give me 100 bucks and that's for your services. Thank you, sir.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't know why dressing up as Benjamin Franklin's going to soften the blow, but it was the first thing that I thought that might make you feel better.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I think Benjamin Franklin brings people comfort. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. See once Chad and Lori were made aware of the fact that Charles was planning to tell Chad's wife Tammy about everything, it threatened not only their relationship, but their entire holy mission. Laurie, just like every other great villain in history, she believed that she was the hero in this story. And whatever she needed to do to advance her mission and protect herself, including murder, was morally and spiritually justified. And so Chad and Lori devised a plan and gave the mission to Lori's psychopathic brother Alex, the open mic community comedian, as they put it in text. It was now time to do the Lord's work to protect Lori at any cost. So on July 10, 2019, Charles was flying to Phoenix from Houston with the full intention of staging an intervention for Lori. Adam Cox, AKA Bo Nasty was also supposed to join him. But that intervention would never come to pass. Now when Charles came.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Listen, hey, I was thinking Charles, you know, thank you again for the place tickets but wonderful. Instead of doing an intervention, prank phone calls. Have you thought about that? Some kind of goose. Some like light hearted goofs. We could do something like that. We could get the light out. We could do anything. We could drive time block.

[Ben Kissel]

You ever thought about holding your pee.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Just a little, just for a little too long?

[Marcus Parks]

I'm thinking, you know, it's getting real close to the end of summer here and it looks like we might have to throw a beer blast.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Somewhere it all around.

[Marcus Parks]

Now when Charles came to Arizona, he stayed at Lori's new house. House she'd moved into only weeks before. Charles woke up the morning after his arrival and went to the gym, then came back at around 7:30am Just as Lori was getting ready to take the kids to school. But Lori was not the only Cox family member in the house. When Charles returned, her psychopathic brother Alex had arrived. And so Charles, knowing that Alex was all in with Daybell's cult, he texted Adam to see if he knew what the was going on here. The only thing Adam texted back was a warning for Charles to be very careful about what he did next. But unfortunately, we really have no idea what happened after that text. All we have are clues, because within an hour of sending that text, Charles Valo was dead. Shot twice by Alex with Alex's legally readily obtained.45 caliber handgun.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You could just see him there, like, just waiting in that house, seeing Charles come in and be going like, yeah, hey there, Chucky boy.

[Marcus Parks]

He's got. Yeah, he's got his fucking, you know, phone. He's got the gun hidden in his back pocket in the back of his. Yeah, he's waiting to go. Now, the story that Lori's daughter Tyler later told to police was that she woke to her stepfather Charles, screaming and threatening Lori and Alex. To put this into the right context, though, tyler was now 16 years old. She's fully a teenager and very capable of lying about what went on if her mother had convinced her to do.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So, and she definitely did. Tyler and Lori had a very. One of those relationships where it was extremely close. Ty wanted to be like her mother and was. Would often act in ways to please her mother and parroted things that her mom said in a way that was. I mean, you could see Tyler just really wanted to fit in with her mom. You ever see those relationships where mom has set up a dynamic where they're cooler than the child and the child wants to be seen as cool in the mom's eyes, and the mom is withholding of that, like, specifically so that you constantly do things and the mom's.

[Marcus Parks]

Always, like, making fun of the kid to her friends, so on and so forth A lot. The same, actually. Same that Lori's mom did to her.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Weird.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, crazy. But regardless, Ty said that she was scared enough when she heard the screaming to enter the room holding a baseball bat for protection, which Charles quickly grabbed out of her hands. At that point, Tyler said she fell down and Alex Cox stepped in. Alex and Charles began grappling, and it's at that point that Lori and Tyler claimed that they ran out of the house. As soon as they were in the car, though, and there were no witnesses, they claimed that they heard two shots ring out from inside. Despite this obvious danger sign, Lori supposedly told Tyler, go Back in the house and get my purse. Which Tyler said she did. She did not, however, say that she saw anything when she went inside. She just got the purse and left. After getting the purse, Lori just drove away in Charles's rental car. She dropped the kids off at school, got Burger King from breakfast, and stopped off at Walgreens to buy flip flops, Making sure she stayed far away from the house where Charles's dead body now lay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Man, I just. I keep thinking of the. When that body cam footage of when they're already there and they're investigating the.

[Marcus Parks]

Shooting when the cops show up.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. And Lori Valo's outside laughing, and she was just joking. She's like, huh? Yeah, we just moved here. Hi neighbors. Yeah, hi neighbors. You keep doing this like funny little bit.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Like no man is no emotion Ocean. And I just find it wild that the cops just roll with it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They don't say anything. They don't even. Any sign of super. Any sign of suspicion.

[Marcus Parks]

I would describe Laurie and Tyler's mood as impatient.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah, they're what? They want it to be done. They want this over the biggest crime.

[Ben Kissel]

Walgreens flip flops. Never trust someone in Walgreens flip flops.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Walgreens apparel.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. If you don't take respect for your feet, you don't respect the world.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You're right, because your feet are the first thing that touch the world every day.

[Marcus Parks]

It's nice. Now, Alex claimed that just after Lori left the house, Charles attacked him with the baseball bat and Alex shot him in self defense. The autopsy, however, told a different story. First shot, that's plausible. But the second showed that Alex had definitely finished the job after Charles was already on the ground.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Normally you don't get a double tap with a self defense wound.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. There was also something staged about the wounds Alex had supposedly suffered in the attack. I don't know how the he did this. Me and Caroline actually tried to like play it out at home and couldn't quite figure it out. But it appeared as if Alex had somehow hit himself in the back of the head with the bat to make it look like he was attacked first. Finally, though, the most damning bit of evidence was the amount of time Alex. Alex waited before calling 911. Even though he told the operator that he'd shot his brother in law in self defense, Alex didn't call emergency services until Charles had already been dead for 45 minutes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, that's how he clean. That's when he cleaned up the Scene. He did. He tried to. That was in those 45 minutes. He was struggling to hit himself hard enough to bleed.

[Marcus Parks]

Like, literally going, sucks.

[Ben Kissel]

I remember one time I was at a party and some guy's like, I'm going to go break a bottle over my own head. And we're like, please don't. And went outside and he just, like, hit himself in the head with a bottle. Like, dunk that. It's like, thunk, thunk, thunk. You're just like, jesus Christ. This is terrifying.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Reminds me of our buddy who decided to punch the. The parking lot, which was buddy Tim.

[Marcus Parks]

He tried to punch the parking lot.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah. He was angry about a lady. He was angry about a lady. He just started punching the pavement.

[Marcus Parks]

To the pavement. Okay.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Broke his hand.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, that happens.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yep.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. But despite all this evidence, it was Lori who charmed her way through the investigation. She and Alex both told police that Charles had been acting, quote, insane and erratic for months, ever since he and Lori had separated. He'd even, they said, shown up at Alex's house to threaten Alex personally. Laurie also told stories about Charles being angry at Laurie for caring more about the kids than she. She did about him, and that he treated his stepdaughter, Tylee, horribly as a result. Lori said that she was so scared about having Charles around that she'd asked Alex to stay over the night before the killing in case Charles tried something. But this was also that little detail right there. That was what kind of set off the alarm bells in the mind of Lori's first son, Colby. Like, Colby, when he heard this, he's like, alex never stays over. Like, none of this makes any sense. And when Lori first told Colby about, like, hey, Charles is dead. He died of a heart attack. And then a few hours later, she's like, oh, no, no, actually, Alex shot him in self defense. And he's like, why did you tell me he died of a heart attack? And it was around that time that Colby's wife said, we're going no contact with your family. Yeah, like, we're not talking to these people anymore. And she made the right decision.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, absolutely. Well, they talk. If you listen to Chad Daybell's mom, the way she met Lori Valo was they all of a sudden they were at some party. This is right after they got murdered. They had a family get together and. And basically asked Lori Valow what, you know, like, was she married before? Found out that they were married when they all first got together. And then she asked, you know, what Happened to your first husband? She said that he died of a heart attack. And then. Same thing. That she had a daughter that died mysteriously but never mentioned having a son.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She told everybody a separate story.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Also, wasn't Charles, like, really close with Colby?

[Marcus Parks]

Somewhat. I mean, they had, They. I think they had a pretty good relationship, but I think. I think she got married. I think Lori married Charles when Colby was in like high school or something. So, like, he. He was a little bit older. He definitely had a good relationship with him, like, without a doubt, much better than his real father, Joe Ryan. But yeah, he was shook definitely when his mother's like, Charles is dead.

[Ben Kissel]

Sorry.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, sorry.

[Marcus Parks]

But there was at least a little bit of skepticism on the part of the police. They noticed that Lori, Alex, and even Ty were all completely calm and not the least bit unsettled by Charles's death. In fact, Lori seemed almost ecstatic. She wore a big smile, would just chat on and on about Ty's going to Brigham Young next year.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And she wasn't actually.

[Marcus Parks]

No, she was not. But even with all this weird, the cops chose file no charges against Alex Cox. Just the. The hom. The guy who did the autopsy. The medical exam examiner was like, yeah, there's some. You should investigate this a little bit more. There's something a little bit fishy here. But the cops are like, nah, whatever.

[Ben Kissel]

Like, aren't you supposed to at least take them in for like manslaughter?

[Henry Zebrowski]

These cops? I mean, this, it's.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, it is a self defense thing, you know, and they don't want to do possible, like a stand your ground thing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They don't want to with it. They don't want to with it. These are the laws. They like cops, like stand your ground laws. They think it's fun. It's also what it does for them is it makes investigations extremely easy.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Less paperwork, less time spent. They don't. In this case. This is one of those that the sheer laziness of the police just allowed all of this to happen. And the, the right here, this crux, this is when someone should have showed up.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. Even if you hold him for a night, he might crack.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Anybody. Yeah. Chad Daybell, if you put him on. Oh, my God. If you. If you put it up to 72 degrees in that room, he's gonna fall apart.

[Marcus Parks]

It's also, it's not just laziness, but. And I guess this goes into laziness, but you know, cops in, in communities fall into a certain rhythm.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Where they just kind of see the same thing over and over again. Like, all right, yep, I've seen this before. You know, brother, okay. Brother in law, abusive husband, you know, brother in law shoots him. Who gives a shit? You know, like, let's just move on. But it's just. Yeah, it's just patterns. They're not thinking. They're never really, like, prepared for the Mormon doomsday cult scenario, but they should.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because it keeps popping up. We've got four of them in the last fucking.

[Marcus Parks]

I know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean it. Between this Chad, they got Tim Ballard and Jody Hildebrandt, Ruby Franklin, all of these people. Like, this is all happening at the same fucking neighborhood.

[Marcus Parks]

It needs to be in the training, I'll say that. Now, if you'll remember, Charles Valo had two adult sons, and Laurie let them know about their father's death in the most callous way possible. She texted them, sending a message that had all the emotion one might show about the death of a beloved family. Family dog.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hi, boys. I have some very sad news. Your dad passed away yesterday. Yeah. I'm working on making arrangements and I'll keep you informed with what's going on. Just want you to know that I love you and so did your dad.

[Marcus Parks]

Seriously, so did your dad.

[Henry Zebrowski]

With three exclamation points.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Just so you know, sad news.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Sorry. It's sad.

[Marcus Parks]

Both sons, of course, called Lori.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know what we missed from a lot of these? Marcus and I will say the one thing with the transcripts and of them put into what's the emojis. And it's true, they said that there is a shocking amount of emojis we're missing from this. So there's a lot of crying faces.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Yeah, I did see that.

[Ben Kissel]

After the funeral, we'll go out for ice cream emoji.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's all it is.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, both sons, of course, called Lori and texted her back to get more information, but Lori all but ignored them. Soon after, Lori had Charles Valo's body cremated with without ceremony, then mailed the.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Ashes to Charles's sister in a manila envelope.

[Marcus Parks]

Adding insult to injury was what Laurie did when one of Charles's sons asked if she could mail out his valuable watch collection. Laurie said of course she would. She would never think about keeping heirlooms from a son. But when the son got the package from Lori, he saw that Lori had bought a bunch of cheap Timex watches at CVS and tried to pass them off as Charles's collection.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know that's, like, such a small part of this, but it's Such a telling sign of what she. She sold them.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, she sold. But. But. And it also shows her like full steam ahead, thinking, oh yeah, very much so.

[Ben Kissel]

I'm sure the moment she realized she wasn't getting a million dollars, she sold all the watches.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, she sold. And then also just to punish everyone.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cuz that's the thing, is that it's not enough that she kills the families, is that this is a part of the Mormon arrogance. I'm sorry, y'all. It's a part of it where they want the secular world to suffer. They don't just want to win. They want us to boil alive in oil. They want people like us to be flayed and tortured. That's what they would like. They wanted to see. They want to see us scream and cry.

[Marcus Parks]

But for Laurie, Charles's death did not just mean freedom to be with Chad. Or at least freedom to be with Chad as soon as Tammy Dale was dealt with. It also meant a massive insurance payout. Or so Lori thought. Just four days after Charles's death, Lori could not wait anymore.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh no.

[Marcus Parks]

Called the insurance company, see how soon she was going to get her check. But she became enraged when she was told that she was no longer the beneficiary. Almost immediately, Lori began a furious text conversation with Chad about the loss of the money, calling it, quote, a spear to her heart. But over the course of this exchange, Lori all but admitted to the murder four days after committing it, saying that Charles had changed the beneficiary in March, quote, before we got rid of him.

[Ben Kissel]

Idiot.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But you remember she's referring to in the text the demon. Yeah. So that's how she covers it for herself. Yeah, she's like Nick changed. I think at that point he was Ned.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, because they. They call him. Sometimes they call him Nick, sometimes they call them Ned.

[Henry Zebrowski]

By this point close on, he wasn't paying his soul bells as ever. You know, his old buddy was never super great with money. And then he turned into the saddest demon name of all, Ned. Yeah. Ryerson turns into it's just God. No imagination.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, eventually Lori discovered that Charles had switched the beneficiary to K. Woodcock, Charles's sister and JJ's Rob real grandmother. As a result, Lori stopped all communication between K and jj. It's a bad move, cuz K and JJ did facetime a lot. Unbeknownst to Lori at the time, K. Woodcock would be her eventual undoing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

Also, she just got the money. Maybe be nice to her.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Y.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, Adam Cox, AKA Bo Nasty. He was understandably afraid for. I'm never going to let him forget that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, no, no, no.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's his name. Bo Nasty. Yeah. He was understandably afraid for his life at this point because Laurie was telling their family that Adam had been conspiring with Charles against her prior to Charles's death. Don't forget that Adam was the last person Charles had texted just before being murdered. The Cox family, not surprisingly, took Laurie's side, and the famously paranoid brood totally believed Laurie when she flipped the story to say that Charles and Adam had actually been planning to. To murder Lori for her life insurance because they both become zombies. Adam, however, was not the only member of Lori's family to get the zombie treatment. See, as I said earlier, zombie was a term that Chad and Lori attached to anyone who stood in their way. And Lori's children were next on that list. Now, there's a lot of speculation and not many answers as to how involved Lori's daughter Ty was with Chad Daybell's cult. Because Tylee, as I said, she was 16 by the time of her stepfather's murder, and her statement to the police were inconsistent at best. But Tylee also seemed like a good kid. Everyone who talked about her said that she had a very good nature, good heart. So it is possible that she was starting to feel some guilt about any potential involvement in her stepfather's death, no matter how small. And Chad and Lori may have been getting nervous.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's two things here. One was that Tyler and Lori's relationship did start to. To tatter. Ty was starting to exhibit the symptoms of any teenager, which they were starting to become maybe not that into everything that's going on.

[Ben Kissel]

They also get emotional when their father's murdered.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They get really, step father, please, super crying about it. But Ty, what I do believe, was starting to maybe ask questions. And also I think too, it's more so that she was just doing normal changes. Yeah, Lori was watching this and they use these as examples. Same thing with jj is that when they take this important part of his life away, JJ also begins to act out, which is making Lori angrier and angrier and angrier. If you see several statements that she makes throughout all of the different statements that she's made about how she says, I raised JJ for quote, unquote, his whole life and I did everything that he needed. And when she says that, she means she was burdened by having to take care of someone that was. That needed more than extra help and she resented JJ and wanted him gone.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, but speaking of jj, remember he was severely autistic. One of his symptoms was a habit of parroting things he heard people say. He'd say it over and over again, and you never knew what JJ was going to pick up. So it's very possible that JJ was starting to repeat things that could have been incriminating to both Chad and Lori. But Chad and Lori couldn't very well just murder Lori's kids to protect themselves or murder them to be completely free. Degree of obligation. Because selfish motives like that wouldn't fit with the fantasy world they built.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They're too good. They're too pure.

[Marcus Parks]

Instead, Chad and Lori needed to write the story and lay the groundwork. And before long, Chad had declared that both Tyler and JJ had become infected by demonic slugs. Just like everyone else.

[Ben Kissel]

You know, say nothing and you have a chance of getting off. Yeah, like, don't just sit there and write a bunch of, like, these two people are slugs, and then kill them. Yeah, because then that's incriminating.

[Marcus Parks]

They can't help themselves.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, all of this is supposed to lead towards the end of the world. And in the end of the world, texting is going to be super expensive.

[Ben Kissel]

Did they really believe in the end of the world?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. You think so? I think that.

[Ben Kissel]

Cuz I think they're full of.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I. There's a. I have a couple other. I have a couple of theories. I have a couple theories.

[Ben Kissel]

And we'll get to those next episode.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm guessing maybe.

[Ben Kissel]

All right.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, just weeks after Charles's murder, Chad said Lori a text saying that he had been instructed, I suppose, by his spiritual voice to focus on. You gotta take care of.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Take care of Hillary.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, you can't do that until I say it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Sir. You're right.

[Marcus Parks]

To focus all his efforts on Hillary. Hillary isn't a name we've heard just yet. Which is why your joke didn't make any sense.

[Ben Kissel]

I thought it was Joseph Fritzel.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Kind of. It is.

[Marcus Parks]

But in Chad and Lori's world, Hillary was the demon that had supposedly possessed Tyler, just as Nick Schneider had possessed Charles. Just a few days after that, Lori texted Chad and told him that he needed to check Tyler's light dark levels because Tyler was not acting like herself, and Lori was worried that her daughter had been switched with a demon. Playing along, Chad texted back, confirming that Tyler had indeed been switched.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, my owl is super angry with Tyler. My owl wants to do everything bad, and I know that I have to keep the peace between the world and my precious Owl.

[Ben Kissel]

That's right. And you want to find me in my owl will be at Hooters, the.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Home of all owls. Precious. The precious palace of owls.

[Marcus Parks]

The murder of the children, however, had to wait because Lori had more pressing matters to attend to. Now that Charles Vala was dead, Lori was finally free to move to Rexburg to be with Chad.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Every girl's dream.

[Marcus Parks]

Every girl's dream. I'm gonna move to Rexbury.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Mr. And Mrs. Chad Daybell.

[Marcus Parks]

Although Chad was still very much married to Tammy, but Tammy's days were also numbered. See, once Lori moved to Rexburg, the other faithful followed, including her niece, Melanie Boudreau, and podcaster Melanie Gibb. Most importantly, though, Lori was joined in Rexburg by her psychopathic brother, Alex. Concerning Alex, Chad told Lori that they would continue using him as the hitman in their divine mission. And and very soon, Alex was going to have more work to do. According to Chad, Tammy was now possessed by a demon named Viola.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Whoa.

[Marcus Parks]

And as a result, Tammy was very close to reaching her so called death percentage. Meaning Chad was very close to giving their holy hitman another job.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

Now you might remember me saying that Chad and Lori claimed that there were only 20,000 zombies in the whole world. And you might say it's a bit of a coincidence that such a relatively large percentage of those 20,000 zombies happen to be popping up in Chad and Laurie's immediate vicinity. You could say that this seeming coincidence, however, fell right in line with fringe Mormon beliefs. According to people who believe in Mormon magical powers, those who are blessed with spiritual gifts are the ones most in danger of being tricked and tormented by Satan. So in Chad and Lori's world, it made total sense that two beings as powerful as them would be inundated with dark spirits.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Also, the one thing that we not really tracking here, but it did happen was that Chad was brought in to Tom Harrison's office. These guys spoke to T, Julie Rose spoke with Tom Harrison. These guys during this time period were getting the green light to go ahead with their fringe beliefs from within the Mormon Church. And this is where I start to think that the reason why there was a whole side plot of this that you can't really, we don't really know. But apparently when he arrived in Rexburg, part of what Chad want wanted to be was the Bishop of Rexburg. He wanted to go and be in charge of that Mormon temple. And there was a partial, there was actually some talk that he could have gotten an official position. And when he didn't get it, that's a Part of why they started going this alternative route because what Chad was trying to do was become an actual high powered member of the Mormon Church and flip it from the inside because he was a sleeper cell for Tom Harrison. There's like a whole thing here that this is all just the side benefits of him having been getting. He got the tap from the Lord Michaels of Mormonism.

[Ben Kissel]

So the Mormons did something right by not making a bishop.

[Marcus Parks]

No.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, that, that one chapter did. But Tom Harrison was fueling all of this.

[Marcus Parks]

Ironically though, the person I heard this powerful people attract dark spirits argument from was near death experience author Julie Row, who talked about the concept on the Netflix series about Chad and Lori. Julie Rowe, however, was using this argument as justification as to why Chad and Lori were involved with four murders. Because in Julie Rose estimation, Chad and Lori were tricked by Satan into going down the wrong path when they began killing people. Everything before that, totally fine.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But no matter how involved Satan was or wasn't, both of Laurie's children and Chad's wife Tammy would all be dead and buried soon after Laurie move to Rexburg. And it's with those murders and the media firestorm that followed that will conclude our series on Chad Daybell and Lori Valow next week.

[Ben Kissel]

Man, I am loving this, but I am ready for us to be dumb talking about these.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We will.

[Marcus Parks]

It's fascinating. I mean the last, the last episode is like arguably the wildest ride of all.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. Like now we go straight to hell. Hell like this is. And we. Thankfully they got caught so we know everything that they did. But yeah, I, I hate them.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

And Daybell is, I mean, well, I guess we'll say we'll save it for the next one.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, yeah. No, he's, he's in jail. They're all in, they're all in jail. Lori Valo's just up. And I just want you to remember. So tonight, Dateline is coming out with this interview with Keith Morrison and Lori Valo. And if you ever, which is she's not going to do, she's not going to, to look well in. But if you even for a second think for a second that Lori Valo could be innocent, I ask you to go and listen to the prison phone calls between Lori Valow and her sister and Lori Valow and Colby Ryan and you will hear who the real Lori Valow is. And you must know that this woman is a stone cold psychopath.

[Marcus Parks]

If you want to see all of the visual jokes that Henry tried to translate into an audio media a Part of.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Of my. I am. I am the new Juice.

[Ben Kissel]

You can go the air quotes on visual jokes.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yes, the air quotes. Yeah, visual jokes. Go to patreon.com Last podcast on the left to see video episodes of every single podcast that we do. You can also watch side stories for free on YouTube and you can follow us also for free on the socials at LP on the left, Tik Tok and Instagram. And also for free, go to Twitch tv, LPN TV to watch all of our streams. But if you want to watch last stream on the left live, that's every Tuesday at 6pm you can only watch it live if you're a Patreon member. But the barrier to entry on that is very low.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, it's super low. You got to come and see it.

[Marcus Parks]

And come see us on tour in all these wonderful cities.

[Ben Kissel]

That's right. We're at the Ryman in one week today at March 14th. And then Henry and I are going to go down to Huntsville and we're going to the VB center, the Von Braun Center.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Did you know it's named after Verter Von Braun? Oh, my God. It looks like Eddie and I are going to be bringing Our Leader Hosen March 16, Sunday.

[Ben Kissel]

We're going to be there. It's going to be a lot of fun. We're doing side stories live.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Before we end today, I wanted to present a special gift to Marcus so that he can know what's happening and how, what we're going to do to take over contact in the desert this year and take back the narrative.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, that's a great idea. That's so nice. Miss you, Henry. What do you got there? You got a. Oh, okay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

First of all, I will don the cap of the sacred warrior of truth, Michael Sedona. I will present to you.

[Marcus Parks]

He's wearing a green leprechaun hat.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. Yeah, one of our.

[Ben Kissel]

I think his hat is actually nicer than yours. I hate to be that guy.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, his hat is much nicer.

[Ben Kissel]

And I know you've been doing podcasts for many years, but when you don't talk into the microphone, no one knows what you.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, they really can't hear you at all.

[Ben Kissel]

What is this?

[Henry Zebrowski]

And I'd like to present to you, Marcus, the most accurate effigy of the World Trade Center. We have here all the grounds.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I see it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All of this. He is.

[Marcus Parks]

You can't see it if you're listening, but it is an actual papier mache model of the Twin Towers.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And we.

[Ben Kissel]

And you shall receive.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We did. We asked for this, and they sent it in. And this is the effigy we will be burning live.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow. It's even got two. It's even got building seven.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We will. We are going to blow this up on our live show of contacting the desert to show you how invisible space juice caused 911. And it's. It's a long story.

[Marcus Parks]

It's a long.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a long story.

[Marcus Parks]

Strap in. Buy your [e-mail] I believe.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. And thank. Thank you, Hank. Hank.

[Ben Kissel]

Thank you, Hank. Oh, my God.

[Henry Zebrowski]

For this extremely wonderful. I'm almost crying. Being a native New Yorker, it almost makes me want to cry.

[Marcus Parks]

It's fantastic. It's absolutely fantastic.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But thank you so much. And hail Satan. And I also want to say hail, Saudi Arabia for the reason for the season.

[Ben Kissel]

And hail Hank. You did it, buddy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Good work.

[Ben Kissel]

This is beautiful.

[Henry Zebrowski]

God, I'm going to. If we don't burn it, I'm using it as my centerpiece for Thanksgiving.

[Ben Kissel]

I think one is slightly taller. Yeah, it's really, really accurate.

[Marcus Parks]

Now. It is missing the. The. The. The antenna, though.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It got kind of got a little squished in the.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, you can send us an antenna.

[Marcus Parks]

We'd really appreciate it, and that'd be great.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It might be attached some point.

[Ben Kissel]

Maybe a wire between the two and a little German man.

[Marcus Parks]

I have to go home.

[Ben Kissel]

Hello, Florida. Your favorite son and biggest baby are coming home to bring you the light laughs you deserve. Everyone likes to poke fun of the Florida man. Everyone likes to use Florida as a punching bag whenever an alligator on meth eats an old person. It could happen anywhere. As a famous Floridian baby, I feel your pain. So that's why I'm coming home, to let you know it's okay to be who you are. It's okay that the rest of America is scared of us. It's okay that books are illegal in our schools. It's okay whenever it gets cold that rains. Iguanas, I'm here to support you, so come on out. March I'll be in North Florida, and in May, I'll be in South Florida and Orlando. It's the Invasive Species Tour. Ed Larson, me is coming to Florida in March and May. I'm coming to Jacksonville, Panama City, Tallahassee, Marco Island, Dana Beach, Orlando, and Key West. So lock up your public subs and start singing the Miami Dolphins fight song, because we're going to party like it's Florida, baby. [e-mail].

[Henry Zebrowski]

I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you.

[Marcus Parks]

Does that sound crazy?

[Henry Zebrowski]

And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous.

[Marcus Parks]

Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from.

[Marcus Parks]

Brands you love, like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And more at your DSW store or dsw dot com.