Episode 616: The Montauk Project Part II - Livin' in the Future

Summary

Last Podcast on the Left
Episode 616: The Montauk Project Part II - Livin' in the Future
Release Date: April 18, 2025
Hosts: The Last Podcast Network (Henry Zebrowski, Marcus Parks, Ben Kissel)
Knowledge Cutoff: October 2023

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Introduction to the Montauk Project

In Episode 616, the hosts delve deeper into the enigmatic and controversial conspiracy theory surrounding the Montauk Project. This installment, titled "Livin' in the Future," continues the exploration of alleged government experiments that purportedly involved time travel, psychic manipulation, and interdimensional research. Building upon the groundwork laid in Part I, the episode seeks to uncover the layers of myth and purported fact that make the Montauk Project a staple in conspiracy lore.

Background and Key Figures

Preston Nichols emerges as a central figure in the Montauk narrative. Described as an electrical engineer with a master's degree in parapsychology from Long Island University, Nichols is credited with bringing the Montauk Project to public attention through his writings and alleged whistleblowing. According to the hosts, Nichols collaborated with other key individuals to piece together the convoluted history of Montauk.

Duncan Cameron is portrayed as another pivotal character, allegedly a powerful psychic whose involvement was crucial in the Montauk experiments. The podcast discusses Duncan's tumultuous journey, including his supposed body swaps, time travel escapades, and the severe side effects of his psychic endeavors.

Ed Cameron, Duncan's brother, is introduced as the scientific mind behind the Montauk Chair, a device central to the project's experiments. Ed's narrative intertwines with that of Preston and Duncan, adding complexity to the overall story.

Al Bilik and Dr. John von Neumann are also mentioned as essential participants. Bilik, a prominent conspiracy theorist, and von Neumann, a renowned mathematician, are depicted as key architects behind the Montauk Project's advanced technological and psychic experiments.

The Montauk Chair and Experiments

The Montauk Chair, also referred to as the Crazy Boy, is highlighted as the primary apparatus used in the project's experiments. According to the hosts, this device was constructed using reverse-engineered alien technology and served as a psychic amplification tool. It was employed to manipulate emotions, control minds, and even facilitate time travel.

Montauk Boys—children purportedly kidnapped from Long Island—were subjected to various forms of psychological and electromagnetic experimentation. The podcast details how these boys were bombarded with UHF waves, microwaves, and radio frequencies to manipulate their consciousness and harness their psychic abilities for the project's objectives.

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the time travel experiments. The hosts explain how the Montauk Chair was instrumental in creating time portals—hyperspace tunnels enabling travel through both time and space. Duncan Cameron's psychic prowess was deemed essential in maintaining and operating these portals, allowing for unprecedented experiments in temporal manipulation.

Impact and Consequences

The hosts draw parallels between the Montauk Project and broader conspiracy theories, suggesting that Montauk served as a blueprint for modern internet-age conspiracies. They argue that the participatory nature of such theories—where believers actively contribute to and expand upon the narrative—has only heightened their impact and reach.

Pop culture references, notably to "Stranger Things," are made to illustrate the enduring influence of the Montauk mythos. The depiction of secret government experiments, psychic children, and interdimensional monsters in the show echoes the theories discussed in the podcast, underscoring Montauk's lasting legacy in popular imagination.

Investigations and Evidence

Preston Nichols' investigative journey is a focal point, chronicling his efforts to uncover the truth behind the Montauk Project. The hosts recount how Nichols tracked down locations, interviewed locals, and pieced together fragmented accounts from individuals like Dick White, the head of the Montauk Historical Society.

Peter Moon, another key figure, is described as an investigator who collaborated with Nichols to validate the project's existence. Their joint efforts allegedly led to the publication of multiple books detailing the project's extensive and improbable claims.

The podcast also touches upon encounters with former participants, government officials, and other conspiracists who provided varying degrees of corroboration—or skepticism—toward the Montauk Project's narratives.

Ending of the Project

According to the hosts, the Montauk Project eventually spiraled out of control, leading to catastrophic outcomes. A pivotal event involves Duncan Cameron's psychic experiment gone awry, resulting in the manifestation of a colossal humanoid monster that wreaked havoc on the laboratory and eliminated numerous scientists.

This disaster prompted the halting of the project, with efforts made to erase all evidence and memories of Montauk's activities. The hosts discuss the alleged memory wipes and the dispersal of key figures like Nichols, Duncan, and Ed Cameron, further shrouding the project's true nature in mystery and obfuscation.

Summary and Conclusion

In conclusion, Episode 616 of Last Podcast on the Left offers a comprehensive and entertaining exploration of the Montauk Project, blending conspiracy theory with humor and critical questioning. The hosts navigate the tangled web of allegations, testimonies, and myth-making that have cemented Montauk's place in the annals of fringe theories. While maintaining an engaging and often irreverent tone, the podcast invites listeners to ponder the plausibility and origins of such enduring conspiracies, ultimately suggesting that the Montauk Project's influence extends far beyond its supposed experimental confines.

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Notable Quotes

• Marcus Parks ([03:09]): "We're here. We're here for the conclusion. The Montauk Project."

• Ben Kissel ([04:00]): "But as it went with many experiments in the Montauk Project, the scientists working on the Montauk Chair continually failed upward."

• Marcus Parks ([05:43]): "He's their French steward. He is a man that doesn't know that he is."

• Ben Kissel ([07:10]): "Duncan Cameron's story is one of the most convoluted that I've heard in all my years of doing this show."

• Ben Kissel ([28:07]): "Yes."

• Marcus Parks ([32:14]): "But that's all to say that this body swap is how Duncan Cameron was able to make the claim that he was one of the scientists involved with the Philadelphia experiment."

• Ben Kissel ([55:53]): "According to the doctor, the experiments had killed his living body, but his psychic self took over and held him together."

• Ben Kissel ([65:55]): "Now once Duncan and Ed arrived at Montauk Point in the year 1983, they were met by Dr. John von Neumann..."

• Marcus Parks ([90:03]): "Like, well, there were cons back then. Because you maybe you can maybe find something like this at a gun show."

• Ben Kissel ([106:16]): "...he's wearing the business Billy suit."

Final Thoughts

Episode 616 effectively blends investigative narrative with the hosts' signature humor, providing both entertainment and a deep dive into one of the most enduring conspiracy theories. For listeners interested in the intersection of government secrets, psychic experimentation, and time travel myths, this episode offers a compelling and thoroughly engaging exploration.

Transcript

[Henry Zebrowski]

On April 18th. Sinners are coming. From Oscar nominated filmmaker Ryan Coogler, director of Black Panther and Creed, starring Michael B. Jordan, comes the motion picture event of the year. Twin brothers Smoke and Stack, both played by Michael B. Jordan, return to their hometown for a fresh start, only to discover an unspeakable evil is waiting to welcome them back. Don't miss this genre bending thrill ride. Shot with IMAX film cameras, Sinners arrives only in theaters on April 18th. Rated R. Under 17, not admitted without parent.

[Marcus Parks]

Last podcast on the left is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance. At Amica, you'll receive coverage with compassion. When you choose Amica, they'll take the time to explain your options for auto, home and life insurance. You can feel confident knowing that they'll protect what matters most to you. Amica will provide you with peace of mind. Go to amica.com and get a quote. Today, there's no place to escape to. This is the last on the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? What a day.

[Ben Kissel]

My life is going to be beautiful.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, some people, they fancy a man from Morocco. And some people, they want a lady from gay Paris. But me, I'll take a little boy from Montauk. Cause that's good enough for me.

[Ben Kissel]

Welcome to the last podcast on the left, ladies and gentlemen.

[Marcus Parks]

Little boy from Montauk. Sing the song.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a bunch of little boys.

[Marcus Parks]

You all know the song. I'll take a little boy from Montauk.

[Ben Kissel]

My name's Marcus Parks. I'm here with the croonin Henry Zabrowski, channeling the spirit of old Dino, the old Rat Pack.

[Marcus Parks]

When I'm done with one, I throw them away and I go and scoop up another little boy from Montauk and.

[Ben Kissel]

Have my good old Long island way and Ed Larson. Hello, Ed.

[Henry Zebrowski]

How you doing? I'm sorry, I don't have a Montauk boy song for you.

[Ben Kissel]

It's fine. Do you want to try one?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay. I was a man from Montauk.

[Marcus Parks]

See? No, no.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Big old mon cuck.

[Ben Kissel]

I tell you, he's doing limericks.

[Marcus Parks]

You don't want to hear from the men of Montauk.

[Ben Kissel]

There once was a man from Montauk who said he had a very large monk.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, there we go. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

He went to the base, he gets a mace and now he's all over.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Living in space.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, the cock.

[Marcus Parks]

I'll take a little boy from Montauk.

[Ben Kissel]

We're here. We're here for the conclusion. The Montauk Project. So when we last left the grand epic that is the Montauk Project electrical engineer Preston Nichols. Ostensibly the most interesting person in history, if you believe his stories, Preston had just helped with the construction of a psychic amplification device called the Montauk Chair. Built using reverse engineered alien technology, the Montauk Chair was used in its infancy to manipulate the emotions of various kids kidnapped from around Long island by the regalian gray aliens for use and experience. Those are the Montauk Boys.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

And they would be experimented upon by being bombarded with radio waves, UHF waves, and microwaves.

[Marcus Parks]

It's always important to reheat your boy before getting around messing with them.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The Montauk Chair. Also known as the Crazy Boy.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, funny enough, funny enough, funny enough, thank you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That is my whole thing.

[Ben Kissel]

But as it went with many experiments in the Montauk Project, the scientists working on the Montauk Chair continually failed upward. And they began to realize that the Montauk Chair could be used for far more incredible purpose than just torturing kidnapped boys.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, because I could torture a bunch of kidnapped boys in a regular chair. It's super easy. You get a hose, you give them pictures of the. And tell him she's dead. It's actually fun.

[Ben Kissel]

Using the aforementioned Sage radar array, which is attuned to broadcast on the frequency that accesses human consciousness, the Montauk Project scientists figured out that if they could use the Montauk Chair to break into the mind, they could also use it to broadcast the thoughts and feelings of the chair's user out into the world. Problem was, though, couldn't just use any old Montauk boy for such an incredible task. To truly unlock the potential of the Montauk Chair, the Montauk Project needed a powerful psychic. Someone whose abilities went far beyond that of your average Long island boy. Well, the psychic they found who eventually became one of the other Montauk Project whistleblowers, right alongside scientist Preston Nichols. He was also the man who supposedly helped unlock the time travel possibilities of the Montauk Chair. This incredibly unique creature was named Duncan Cameron.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, I've watched several long talks of Al Bilik, Preston Nichols and Duncan Cameron talking. And you know what I've now discovered? You know what I've realized? Who Duncan Cameron is to all of them.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Who?

[Marcus Parks]

He's their French steward. He is a man that doesn't know that he is. You know how goofy neighbors nowadays, they'd all be diagnosed with various syndromes. Yes, he's one of those.

[Ben Kissel]

Gotcha. You know, I don't get the Whole all the hate for French Stewart. I thought he was delightful.

[Marcus Parks]

This is wonderful. This is just a neutral comparison.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Do people have hate for French Stewart?

[Marcus Parks]

No. Really?

[Ben Kissel]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

I think it's great. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Very kind.

[Marcus Parks]

Have an outdated understanding of the wacky best friend. And they don't understand that that used to be super part of a super important part of all comedy. And French Stewart was great at that. But also that was the only thing he could do. This is a bazinga based economy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I like the guy from the Drew Carey show.

[Marcus Parks]

We all do.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah, he's got Ryan Stiles.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no, no.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He was the normal one, the. The idiot.

[Marcus Parks]

We're lost here now. We are absolutely. This is the most confused that we have been in the episode we're about to try to figure out adults turning into babies. We can't do this here.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now.

[Ben Kissel]

Duncan Cameron's story is one of the most convoluted that I've heard in all my years of doing this show. And that's saying something. Before Duncan even took a seat in the Montauk chair, his journey involved body swapping, parallel lives, government experiments, and an unhealthy amount of time travel.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What is a healthy amount?

[Marcus Parks]

Once, I think if you do it once and you stay in that time, then it's done. Then it's just a trip.

[Ben Kissel]

Seems never is the best way. It's kind of like heroin. You can't just do it once. But like the Montauk project itself, I.

[Marcus Parks]

Feel like we're gonna get emails. It's like, I know of all the things that we cover, I feel like a lot of people's like, I did one time. So you should smoked opium twice.

[Ben Kissel]

You shouldn't do it. Well, that you did it twice.

[Marcus Parks]

But it smoked it. But it wasn't like, I didn't know it was heroin. I thought it was a different type of weed.

[Ben Kissel]

So you shouldn't do heroin or opium once.

[Marcus Parks]

You're right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But I did and I'm awesome.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You smoked it twice. I smoked it like 30.

[Ben Kissel]

Wow. Handful.

[Henry Zebrowski]

A handful.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, more.

[Henry Zebrowski]

30 is a handful.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, let's not do that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, my God.

[Ben Kissel]

But like the Montauk project itself, Duncan Cameron's involvement in this story begins with the invisible battleship slash interdimensional time traveling snafu that we talked about in the first episode, the Philadelphia Experiment. Now to place you in the correct time frame, because timeframes are extremely important in Duncan Cameron's story, the Philadelphia Experiment occurred in the year 1943, which placed Duncan's birth date somewhere in the 1910s. Although that, like many things in Duncan's story, is vague.

[Marcus Parks]

Duncan Cameron also likes to dress like a small town choreographer. He dresses the most turtlenecks I've ever seen in Long island and he wears a beret.

[Ben Kissel]

He is, like I said, a very unique character.

[Marcus Parks]

He really is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I think in the future we're going to see a lot of turtlenecks because so many people are getting neck tattoos.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And they're gonna be set and they're getting. They're getting a little loosey goosey with these neck tattoos. And I think we're gonna see an influx in turtlenecks. So invest now.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey. Or totally opposite neck removal surgery. It's got. That could be Boulderhead. Could be the new sign of wealth.

[Ben Kissel]

The Duncan was not the only member of his family involved in the Philadelphia Experiment or the Montauk Project. But Duncan did not begin his career in the world of high strangeness as a psychic. Psychic, of course, is the role that he played in the Montauk Project. Duncan Cameron actually began in the world of science with his brother Ed Cameron. Ed was also supposedly born in the early 20th century. Ed was also apparently the brains of the family, having supposedly earned his undergrad degree at Princeton and a PhD from Harvard. But while he was at Princeton in the early 1930s, Duncan Cameron's brother, Ed Cameron, he met Dr. John von Neumann, who you may remember from the last episode as the mathematician who headed up the antecedents to the Montauk Project projects Rainbow and Phoenix.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that fucking dumbass mathematician doesn't fucking do stuff that matters. Math is stupid.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He's the one respectable person in this whole story.

[Marcus Parks]

The person I hate the most.

[Ben Kissel]

As a fun pop culture side note, I did forget to mention last episode that the wheelchair bound Dr. John von Neumann was partly the inspiration for the character of Dr. Strangelove.

[Marcus Parks]

That actually makes a lot of sense. Yeah, because he was one of those weird shady characters that was doing a bunch of weird government science.

[Ben Kissel]

But he was Hungarian, he wasn't German, and he wasn't a former Nazi. But his entire vibe was very Dr. Strangelove.

[Marcus Parks]

It's like he wanted to be one.

[Ben Kissel]

You know, like you can't say he didn't want to be one.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's why he put Vaughn in his name.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Without being a professional skier, I feel that he was like. It's not that he wanted to be one. He was one of those that like. Like the jackets that if he could have gotten a hold.

[Ben Kissel]

He was a Ralph Lauren fan.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, if he could have gotten the jackets and the Hugo Boss.

[Ben Kissel]

Hugo Boss, Hugo Boss.

[Marcus Parks]

It's all the same.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, it's not.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, after Ed Cameron earned his PhD from Harvard in 1939, he was supposedly recruited by the Navy along with his brother, Duncan. Although the reasons behind Duncan Cameron's recruitment are, again, very vague.

[Marcus Parks]

It's because wherever he goes, I go. I'm his shadow. And you follow me, and I follow you. My sweet, sweet, smart, smart brother, Eddie. I'm the dramatic one.

[Ben Kissel]

But before long, Dr. Von Neumann recruited both Ed and Duncan Cameron into Project Rainbow, which meant that the Cameron brothers were soon on assignment working in the bowels of the USS Eldridge as a part of the Philadelphia experiment. So we're 1943 right now.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Ben Kissel]

Working deep inside the ship, the Cameron brothers were assigned to the control room. This is where the Tesla coils that created the electromagnetic fields that were supposed to make the USS Eldridge radar invisible were kept. But as we know, the experiment went.

[Marcus Parks]

Terribly awry because Nikola Tesla purposely changed the shape of the coil so that they go the wrong way.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, well, and that's the other thing, too, is that Nikola Tesla was also dead for about eight months when the Philadelphia Experiment.

[Marcus Parks]

Not according to my research.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Time was travel.

[Marcus Parks]

He was doubled. He was doubled.

[Ben Kissel]

Eight months.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. That's it. That's all you need. All right.

[Ben Kissel]

I don't know why there's a. Like, I think it has to be, like, 16 years travel, time travel, two weeks, October.

[Marcus Parks]

It is cold in October.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, because the Camerons were down in the bowels, behind all those layers of steel and iron, they were supposedly protected from the horrible silence effects that occurred when the USS Eldridge jumped through time and space. Side effects, like finding your body fused to the ship's hull or going insane for being exposed to the energies of another universe. But as we sit on the first episode, the Philadelphia Experiment didn't end even after the disasters of the initial test, because after all, they hadn't reached their actual goal of radar invisibility. So when the second test was conducted to give it another shot, Duncan and Ed Cameron were once again on board.

[Marcus Parks]

We just figured we were there for the first trip, we might as well be there for the second. Is that right, brother? Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's not like we'll get fused to.

[Marcus Parks]

The ship, but hopefully, brother, maybe we can be fused, penis to butt, and finally, I can forever be inside of you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean, if we're not fused together, we could do it over and over again.

[Marcus Parks]

No, that makes it gay. But if it's done by science. It's an experiment.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm coming.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes. I feel agrees that if there's friction back and forth, then it is gay. But if it is just in there, then it's fine.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you, Mr. Von Neumann. I mean, Dr. Van Neumann, because you didn't go to nine years of Neumann School to be Mr. Van Noyn.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Teach me how to soak my brother.

[Marcus Parks]

I'll you inside your belly.

[Ben Kissel]

Supposedly, on this second test, everything was going just fine for the first five minutes. But when the ship vanished from sight once again, the Cameron brothers could tell that something wasn't right going off. How the other crew members were being affected by the electromagnetic energies.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm sh. Coming. My. Oh, I'm coming up my Billy. But my poop is coming. My coming.

[Ben Kissel]

Very good.

[Marcus Parks]

Is there a problem? I talked to Ryan Coogler this week. Did you tell him that you come with Mike?

[Ben Kissel]

Well, in an attempt to reverse the damage, the Cameron brothers tried shutting down the generators and the transmitters, but the effects weren't slowing down. Faced with seemingly no other choice, the Cameron brothers finally decided to abandon ship to save themselves.

[Marcus Parks]

Come, brother, jump out of my lap. I'm already there. Let's go. Grab onto my back pockets.

[Ben Kissel]

I told you, don't call me come brother in public.

[Marcus Parks]

All right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Shit, brother, this Montauk chair is lumpy.

[Marcus Parks]

Let's just move forward. Let's move on.

[Ben Kissel]

No reason, but when the Cameron brothers jumped over the side of the ship in the middle of the whole experiment, they fell not into the icy waters of the Atlantic, but through a hyperspace tunnel in time that had been opened up. They blacked out and awoke to find themselves in hospital beds recovering from radiation burns. Now, at first, they believed they were still in 1943, but they very quickly noticed that their rooms had relatively large color televisions, which were not commercially available in 1943, pretty soon after the standard what year is it? Freak out. Duncan and Ed were told that they had accidentally traveled to the far flung year of 2137.

[Marcus Parks]

I think part of what I have issue with is we still just got TVs, huh? Yeah, we still just got TVs. That's sad. Yeah, well, in hospitals and hospitals not run by robots. I. This is. This whole thing's just so funny. Just like them all showing up at the hospital and then being like, yeah, you took a bit of a time travel trip, right, but we're gonna have to do you. Unfortunately, we're gonna have to do your space colonoscopy because you've actually Passed the age for it. We're gonna have to do it.

[Ben Kissel]

According to what Ed and Duncan Cameron learned, the United States had been utterly changed by rising sea levels by the year 2137. And California in particular had been almost entirely swallowed by the sea. The Cameron brothers also had no idea of how they could return to the year 1943. But after four weeks of recovery, Ed and Duncan were wandering the hospital grounds when Ed suddenly disappeared. He had no idea how or why. But he soon found himself even further in the future when he landed in the year 2749.

[Marcus Parks]

And there's still TV. What the fuck?

[Ben Kissel]

Well, Ed decided he might as well make the most of it. So he made a life in the year 2749 as a tour guide and I assume a museum of some sort, where he likely told his personal experiences of mid 20th century America throughout his two years living in the 28th century.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh my God, you're so fucking cute. Can you explain to me how refrigerators work, Miss?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I only know chairs.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh my God, your ignorance is so fucking hot. He's so from the year 1943. I'm in a fucking. My fake two pussies are starting to kiss.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is an Aeron chair. That's a wooden chair.

[Marcus Parks]

Excuse me, I have to put on my pleasure butthole.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All right, well make sure that you get it on the chair.

[Marcus Parks]

It's a screw on.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's a bed. I don't know anything about that.

[Ben Kissel]

According to Ed, The America of 2749 was a society of floating cities built with anti gravity technology. I guess because all the water everywhere. Yeah. And civilization was run by computers called wingmakers.

[Marcus Parks]

Good fake name.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, it is a great fake name. From my scant understanding, based off what Henry told me during a zoom call with our researchers yesterday, it seems like it was these computers that sent Ed home.

[Marcus Parks]

I think this takes place in the world where the Roko's Basilisk thought exercise is happening. Where if there are supercomputers that run our future, they have then always existed. And if they do have power of time travel, then they can reach back and affect time in a way that makes sure and ensures that they develop and that they come around and this is what they did. All of the unknown moves are being made by the the absolutely inscrutable minds of these so called wing makers. And the first ones they approached, of course going back in about the year 1971 was Paul McCartney. That was where the first wings were ever.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And I was a wingmaker for a long time.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hooters.

[Marcus Parks]

Bdubs.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, bdubs and hooters.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not the same, though.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, no, no, no.

[Ben Kissel]

Would you put the men that were in that kitchen with you in charge of the universe?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean, not in charge of the universe, but I'd let them take out the trash. Just don't talk to the ladies.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Here you go, Ed. Just make it to the trash can and back.

[Ben Kissel]

Supposedly, Ed Cameron was able to stop off in 21:37 to pick up Duncan right at the moment that he disappeared.

[Marcus Parks]

Brother.

[Ben Kissel]

But the brothers were not able to travel all the way back to 1943. Instead, Ed and Duncan landed at the base at Montauk Point in 1983, at a time when the Montauk project had already been up and going for decades. See, according to Preston Nichols, the earth has natural 20 year time rhythms that act as anchor years for time travel. Yeah, the anchor years for Duncan Cameron were 1943, 1963 and 1983. So it was only logical that Duncan and Ed would land in the nearest anchor year when they attempted to travel back to their origin point.

[Henry Zebrowski]

If it's every 20 years, how do they end up in 2137?

[Marcus Parks]

Because that one was different.

[Ben Kissel]

That one.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you.

[Ben Kissel]

Seriously, that is seriously the answer. Seriously the answer. Because that one was different.

[Marcus Parks]

That one was different. And there is. It's. It's good to know they are. Preston Nichols believes in this. This is really all hinging on a lot of specific ideas in science and physics, I guess, which is the idea that time is a force. So part of what they say is, according to Cameron's. According to Cameron and Preston Nichols, that they. When you. When come touches egg, you are born. You were a time ip. A timespace IP address is created for you alone. Which is why you could travel back and forth across time without affecting the main timeline. Because it' specific time space timeline that you are carrying with you. But some of the problems with the experimenting of the Montauk project could knock you off of your timeline. And that's when you start floating places.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I almost got that.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I think you'll. You'll see eventually. Once I'm Done with youm Grave. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. Seems amazing, right? It's because it is. From consultations to events and experiences, showcase your offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. Which is good because let's just say I need it. You know, as you may or may not know, I lost horsepix.com in a very, very public and embarrassing auction to a young man by the name of Charlie Bucket, who has decided to take my horse picks and drive it towards the right. Some of the incendiary horse picks that I've seen, including Steve Bannon on a Clydesdale, one of the worst I saw was Ivanka Trump inside of a mayor. And I know that this is not the direction that I saw. Horsepix.com and, and that little boy, I didn't know that he'd become a full fledged Nazi and, and grow his hair into broccoli shapes and do all sorts of things I don't understand. Which is why I've started Emu Paintings.com thank you, Squarespace, because Emu Paintings.com are these really, it's an exceptional way for me to get you paintings of emus in various positions that emus would normally be. And in a way, I find it both amusing and inspiring to see what emus can do using the painter's brush and imagination. And if it wasn't for Squarespace, I would be absolutely F'd to the gills. That's the term for being absolutely s out of luck. Squarespace, thank you for streamlining your workflow with built in tools because I would not have been able to get this website up fast enough due to the legal fees I've received and the personal heartache and my own health deteriorating. I just want to say thank you Squarespace, for all your help. And emu paintings.com is going to be just as good and just as funny and relevant. I promise. Had to squarespace.com left for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code left to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, people say that therapy can feel like a big investment. But do you know that your brain generates all of your tangible reality? And that when you pay money to a therapist to do that work, they are working on the very fabric of reality. And as a matter of fact, that therapist is also just a figment of your imagination. And so is your base personality. You don't exist. You are a mode in time floating through the expansiveness of space. But traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to 250 per session. All right, that's a lot of fake money for the fake things going on inside of our world on top of the reality that we generate with the three pounds of flesh in our brain. All right, but. And it can add up. But you have to know it's all fake. And so are you. And so is BetterHelp. But it helps. It's online therapy with better help. You pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you on big costs and on time. Because remember again, the therapy is a figment of your imagination and so are you. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With online therapy, you can get quality care at a price that makes sense. Yes, using the money that is not backed by anything, you can go and pay a person to help you talk about your reality as if it was real. So remember that you're not real. I'm not real. But BetterHelp can really help your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com lastpod to get 10 off your first month. That's betterhelp h-p.com lastpod do you say data or data? I don't know. However you say it though, it's time to stop overpaying for your monthly data plan with Mint Mobile. I guess I say data. I never thought about it until this moment. Now I'm locked in and obsessed. Ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint mobile. It's only 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high speed data. Ah, data. Is that it? Data. Ah man, what do I. How do I ah data. Anyways, you get a limited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G. 5G network. That's 5G's or as I like to call them geese. All right. Mint Mobile is gonna save you money. Data. Data. Anything you want. Whatever you it is you need. Talking wise Mint Mobile. It does it. No matter how you say it. Don't overpay for it. Shop data plans@mint mobile.com LPOTL that's mint mobile.com LPOTL upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to 15amonth new customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[Ben Kissel]

Now once Duncan and Ed arrived at Montauk Point in the year 1983, they were met by Dr. John von Neumann, who had apparently faked his death radiation exposure due to his work on the Manhattan Project in 1957 and was still working on the Montauk Project at the ripe old age of 80. Now we're going to get into how all the time travel stuff unfolded at the Montauk Project later. But for the purposes of telling the story of Ed and Duncan Cameron first.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, God.

[Ben Kissel]

Let's just accept that time travel had already been going on at the Montauk project for a while by the time Ed and Duncan landed there in 1983.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Ben Kissel]

Dr. Von Neumann, of course, was very much involved in the time travel stuff. And as such, the good doctor told the Cameron brothers that he'd been waiting for them to return from their travels in time, but they still needed to go back to 1943 to turn off the generators so they could finally end the experiment on the USS Eldridge, which had been occurring this entire time.

[Marcus Parks]

The entire time. Time travel means that time technically is both real and not real, because you can go back and forth. All the things are actually happening at once.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Can I ask a time travel question?

[Marcus Parks]

Of course.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So while you're traveling through time, do you still age at the normal rate?

[Ben Kissel]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay. So, like, if I go back in time, I'm still 43.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All right.

[Marcus Parks]

And then if you stay there for a long time, but time travel, then forward can super age you after the fact.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But even though it's not aging me at all.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Because it's still just your time catches up to you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And these guys went to 2700 big time. Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Super long.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And it didn't age them.

[Marcus Parks]

Not yet.

[Ben Kissel]

Okay, we'll see.

[Marcus Parks]

It's all about after the fact.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cool.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, after getting some proper. Yeah, you're humoring.

[Marcus Parks]

You're taking.

[Ben Kissel]

This is, like, really high. Like, you got your humoring dial all the way up. I'm here to learn.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm really proud of you.

[Ben Kissel]

So after getting some proper time travel training from Dr. John von Neumann, the key is you.

[Marcus Parks]

You need to overlap your feet so the time water doesn't SM your balls. Make sure to hold your hands across your chest and make sure to keep your hands and feet inside of the time tube at all times. At all times, including when you're time traveling.

[Ben Kissel]

The Cameron brothers travel back to 1943 and turned off the generators on the USS Eldridge by smashing the transmitters and cutting any cables they could find.

[Marcus Parks]

So, remember, they. So they time traveled. The moment this happened, they time traveled to 22. First it was like it was 2137, then it was 2700, then it was back to 1983, then they grabbed back.

[Henry Zebrowski]

To 2137, and then back to 1980.

[Marcus Parks]

1983, then. Yes. And then back to the moment in which they first move. So they literally went through the time tunnel and then came back right behind where they were into a time tunnel onto the USS Eldridge to stop the whole thing.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, and then they did it. They. They destroyed everything. And everything was just back to normal. Now, I suppose Ed Cameron had his fill of time travel because he stayed in 1943 after the mission was completed. But Duncan Cameron returned to the Montauk project in 1983, although it was suggested by author Peter Moon that Duncan had been programmed to return by evil Montauk project scientists.

[Marcus Parks]

And how you knew his accent changed. I'm sorry, Ed. I've got to go back to the future. That's where I'm needed. I'll miss you, brother.

[Ben Kissel]

Here, of course, is where things start to get weird. Oh. See, when Duncan returned at the year 1983, he found that he had been severed from the time stream and had therefore begun aging an entire year with every hour that passed. As a result, he soon found himself dying from the effects of extreme aging. Kind of like. Yeah, it's like Beetlejuice.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, this reminds me a lot of Beetlejuice.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. So to save Duncan's life, the scientists at Montauk supposedly used a time portal to contact Duncan Cameron's father in the year 1951. They then convinced Duncan's father to have another son that very year, as it was extremely important that he impregnate a woman before the year was out.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Assault the woman.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh boy, oh boy. I hope I have enough soup after I assaulted that woman this morning.

[Ben Kissel]

Plan, you see, was to have Duncan's father birth a son in 1951, because that way the boy would be 12 years old in 1963, which, if you'll remember, was one of Duncan's 20 year cycle time travel anchor years, Zack. And so Duncan's father followed the directive and got his wife pregnant in 1951.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm fucking coming out my dick. I'm fucking shooting. Come on.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Some people come normally, but not this guy.

[Marcus Parks]

He just runs in the family.

[Ben Kissel]

And when the new Duncan turned 12 years old in 1963, the consciousness of the old Duncan, the one dying from time sickness, was transferred into the body of the new 12 year old Duncan.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, so they had to kill that 12 year old, throw him in the trash.

[Ben Kissel]

They don't say what happened to the consciousness of the 12 year old.

[Marcus Parks]

They killed the 12 year old. They had to kill the boy to make room for another boy.

[Ben Kissel]

But no, they can't kill the boy because they need the body of the boy. And the boy is. They just push the consciousness out into the ether.

[Marcus Parks]

You wipe what makes the boy. The boy. And then you insert a new boy into what used to be the old boy and make a new boy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What is life?

[Ben Kissel]

But that's all to say that this body swap is how Duncan Cameron was able to make the claim that he was one of the scientists involved with the Philadelphia experiment, which of course occurred eight years before Duncan Cameron was actually born in the year 1951.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, maybe they put the consciousness of this other boy into old deteriorating Duncan.

[Marcus Parks]

I think they told the other boy that his, his personality was going to be put in a nice field where it could run and fly. And they're all like, oh, you still missed. You're like, oh yeah, oh, definitely. And then just killed that boy.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, I actually never did get think about that. They probably did just switch the minds and they just doomed a 12 year old to die a horrible death. Yeah. In an old man's body.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because that consciousness exists, dude. So it has to go somewhere.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So they are basically saying we killed a boy.

[Marcus Parks]

Mom talk project was entirely about killing and making boys invisible.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know, but one of the boys though is now saying that they killed the boy.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, definitely.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, he felt very sorry about it. In his tour of the abandoned Montauk project, Duncan Cameron starts going, I'm sorry.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, okay.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm sorry. As long as he apologize stuff. Yeah, they're shells. You should watch this tour. It's two and a half hours long and it's Preston Echols going in. Here are the shelves in which they put the Montauk boys. You could hear the screaming. And over here you could see the lockers where they held some of the boys. They were in there with padlocks. And over here you see some more lockers for the boys. It's all just like weird wooden structures.

[Ben Kissel]

Duncan, however, was not the only member of the Cameron family to go through the body swap process. And he was not the only one who was also directly involved in the Montage project. Remember that Duncan's brother, Ed Cameron, he supposedly stayed behind in 1943. At some point, Ed was made to forget everything that happened with the Philadelphia experiment and his time travel adventures to the year 2749. And he was soon after supposedly transferred to work on the Manhattan Project. Ed Cameron, however, bumped heads with one of the other scientists and was removed from the project that built the world's first atomic bomb. Ed then started his own business building the first ion propulsion engine. But that project ran afoul of the interests of the United States government for one reason or another. So a Black ops team disappeared Ed and the government sent Ed through a space portal to Alpha Centauri 1 by calling in a favor with one of the various alien races with whom they'd signed interstellar treaties. You know how that goes.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah. You could tack one of the things on there. That's one of the additionals on there and there. And you can stack that in late negotiations.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Why do aliens believe in treaties? There's no law upholding it.

[Marcus Parks]

It's for us, Eddie.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes, but they could give a shit.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Of course.

[Marcus Parks]

That's why we'll never know what their actual agendas are.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, we can pull it. They can pull out at any time. We don't know what they're really up to. We're just trusting them. Because we get WI fi.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, because they don't. Because the UN holds nothing over them.

[Marcus Parks]

You know those things they the only fans girls use where they put it in their buttholes in their vaginas and they can pulse electronically from far away? Sure. It's aliens. Oh, yeah. Where would we be?

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's what they get in the deal.

[Ben Kissel]

Once on Alpha Centauri, Ed Cameron was experimented upon by aliens. But the final indignation came when Ed Cameron was brought back to Montauk and put through a series of age regression procedures that reduced him back to a small infant. Infant Ed was then sent back in time to the year 1927, where he was placed with a new family and renamed Al Bielik.

[Marcus Parks]

I could just see them looking at this infant, being like. Call him Al.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Paul Simon song Duncan. What's his name?

[Marcus Parks]

Call me out. Oh my God, Eddie, you're not. I'm not even joking. That might be one of the. The keys to this whole thing.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. If there's a. If there's a guy named Julio in the story somewhere, I'm going to.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Cuz that means Preston Nichols was just obsessed with the. What was it?

[Henry Zebrowski]

What, the movie by Mike Nichols? The Graduate?

[Marcus Parks]

No, the other one with the has. Oh my God. That's another one. Graceland?

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow. Is this all Graceland based? Is this Graceland dlc?

[Henry Zebrowski]

As long as it's not Rhythm of the Saints.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, yeah. Now, you conspiracy heads out there probably know the name Al Bilik because along with Preston Nichols and Duncan Cameron, Al Bililich is the third public voice in the Montauk project. Arguably, Al Bilich is the most well known of the conspiracy theorists here of all of them.

[Marcus Parks]

Because Al Bilik mostly is known for the Philadelphia Experiment. He's the one that put all The Philadelphia Experiment stuff out there, that's. That was like his thing. And it wasn't until Preston Nichols started talking that Al Bilik started being like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, so they all started putting their stories together.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You can almost say that they were still crazy after all these years.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, my God. We have to be careful. We have to be careful. Paul Simon Garfunkel.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, supposedly this is Al Bilik's story. After being sent back to 1927 to grow up a second time, Bielick was recruited by the Navy out of high school towards the end of World War II. And he eventually began working in the corners of the military that dealt with psyops and extraterrestrials. But because of his work with aliens, Bielick was also close friends with conspiracy theorist Phil Schneider, who we talked about extensively in our Aliens Attack episode. Interestingly, though, Phil Schneider claimed that his father was a former Nazi scientist who brought his work on Nazi time travel to America, where he applied that Nazi time travel knowledge to what else but the Philadelphia Experiment?

[Marcus Parks]

God damn it. Can you imagine hanging out with all these guys? Like what it's like to hang out with Phil Schneider and light his cigar? Because he can't. He must be so afraid of fire. Do you think he's like Frankenstein's monster? I know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

If you're hanging out with these guys, you got to pick up the check. I'm saying.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah, buddy. And it better be. You might need to throw in some gas money as well.

[Ben Kissel]

Just so we're clear on the body swaps, let's review.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you.

[Ben Kissel]

Duncan Cameron and Ed Cameron both traveled through time, but the side effects of time travel caused Duncan to age rapidly, and his consciousness was therefore transferred to the body of his own 12 year old brother in 1963, who had been conceived by Duncan and Ed's father at the request of the United States government. Government. Got it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Come out the. Come out the butt out the dick. Kill the boy.

[Ben Kissel]

Kill the boy. Yes. Ed Cameron, meanwhile, was purposefully de aged into an infant by that same government after going through the time travel and coming back to 1943. Then he was taken back in time to the year 1927, where he was raised under the name of Al Bilik. So Al Bilik and Ed Cameron are the same person, just de aged and grown up in a different time where all this comes together. Is that Al Bielik, who, if you'll remember, formerly Ed Cameron. He was eventually recruited into the Montauk Project along with the Rest of them where he worked as a scientist, primarily concerned with the operations of the Montauk Chair. Like Preston Nichols, Bielick also claimed to have met Mark Hamill in Hawaii in the 1950s. Although I'm still entirely unclear on just what role Mark Hamill is supposed to play here, other than being a guy who just shows up every once in a while. I don't know. He just keeps. Keep bringing up Mark Hamill, Markham, but they never say what he was.

[Marcus Parks]

Dead.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He's there to force the boys into the chair.

[Marcus Parks]

Absolutely.

[Ben Kissel]

Force. Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Excellent. But I don't think Mark Hamill has that ability.

[Ben Kissel]

Mark Hamill is an actor.

[Marcus Parks]

He's not a Jedi. Great actor. And I believe he could talk any boy into any chair he wants. But I don't think Mark Hamill's trying to. I think that these guys just really wish they had met Mark Hamill.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. Now, Al Bielik, AKA Ed Cameron, he claimed that when he began working on the Montauk project, he actually lived in California, but he commuted to Long island every day via a magnetic levitation subway train that traversed the country in just two hours. Eventually, though, the train was replaced with an underground time tunnel machine. The technology that made the time tunnel possible was. What else but the Montauk Chair, which by this point, was being operated by none other than Al Bielik's supposed brother, Duncan Cameron.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So if the train goes underground, why does it have to be time traveling?

[Marcus Parks]

Because otherwise it can't travel fast enough.

[Ben Kissel]

No. It was first a magnetic levitation subway train that traveled through magnets.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. And that was underground. Underground.

[Ben Kissel]

Underground.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Levitating underground.

[Ben Kissel]

It was levitating underground. It levitated over the tracks. Yeah. Because of the magnet. Magnets, which made the. Magnets also made it go real fast.

[Marcus Parks]

Real. Making the train real light.

[Ben Kissel]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Right.

[Ben Kissel]

But then it was replaced. But then it's just a time tunnel. And they just walk through the time tunnel.

[Marcus Parks]

They just farted it out.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But if. But they're not going through time. They're going through space.

[Marcus Parks]

They're using time to travel time and space.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Space. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

They're using time to travel through space.

[Marcus Parks]

Time is what it takes for you to travel through space.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I guess so.

[Marcus Parks]

You know what?

[Ben Kissel]

I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna take. I guess so.

[Marcus Parks]

I can't wait to see the emails we get every sing time. We try to talk science on this show. And this isn't science. I know it's not. Don't worry about it. I'm hearing, like, people that Know, science being like, that's not how the magnets work.

[Ben Kissel]

Of course it's not.

[Marcus Parks]

None of this is real. Yeah, it's some of it. Who knows? Some of it might be real, but none of it is fully real.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Montauk exists.

[Ben Kissel]

Does Now, I have no idea how Duncan Cameron made his way back into the Montauk Project, whether his younger self was recruited or kidnapped or what. Because Duncan Cameron was extremely vague on many extremely important plot points such as this. What we do know is that at some point in the early 70s, Duncan Cameron had somehow become an extremely powerful psychic. He was, therefore one of the Montauk Project's most important assets. Although it does seem like he was being forced to use the Montauk chair against his will.

[Marcus Parks]

At first he was excited. He was excited, and he was engaged partially. It was the way that Preston Nichols described Duncan Cameron as. He's a guy that can live, literally only focus on one thing at a time. And what he meant by that was that he said that Duncan Cameron had a special ability. It wasn't even necessarily that he was psychic, is that he was so well able to concentrate and without anybody else's interference that he could create pictures in his mind and hold them, no matter what you did to him. You could fucking hit him in the knees with a stick. You could fucking pull on his. Pull on his belly. You know what I mean? You could give him wet willies and stuff. And he's still thinking about it, and he's locked in and. Because what they figured out is the reason why they need a human mind to do any of this stuff is because technically, it's too difficult to do the math and the science to make it up. But if you just think about it and you make up a time tunnel in your brain, you're doing all the work just by thinking about it. See what I'm saying?

[Ben Kissel]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

You don't have the technology to build it, but if you just think about it being real and you have a psychic materialist machine that can make it real, then it becomes real because you're just thinking about it, and it's using your mind.

[Ben Kissel]

Thoughts, power of positive thinking.

[Marcus Parks]

No, it's the actual making of the thing. It's the power of the visualization of your mind.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, that makes sense. Michael Jackson used to write his songs by just, like, humming them. And then Quincy Jones would make it.

[Marcus Parks]

And then the kid goes like, hey, let me go.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We'll cut that part and then we'll.

[Ben Kissel]

See the rest of it, okay? But I think it'll work well. I'm also unsure if Al Bilik and Duncan Cameron knew that they were supposedly brothers while they were in Montauk. They didn't know. But the important thing to know here is that Al Bilik claims that he was the program director in charge of the psychics who manned the Montauk chair. He's sort of like the Matthew Modine character in Stranger Things. So to recap one more time, we're now back in the late 70s where Al Bielik, aka Ed Cameron, was controlling the mechanisms behind the Montauk chair while his supposed brother, Duncan Cameron was sitting in the chair itself, operating as the psychic battery. And yes, he. He. They did say over and over again, you said that Duncan, that Preston Cameron said that. It wasn't that he was psychic, but in the books, they refer to him as a powerful psychic, like, thousands of times.

[Marcus Parks]

Preston Nichols downplays Duncan Cameron's abilities sometimes. Because I believe that Duncan Cameron annoys Preston Nicholas in all of the footage.

[Ben Kissel]

To take him down a peg or.

[Marcus Parks]

Two constantly is negging Duncan Cameron. He's constantly being like. And that's what Duncan does. Yeah, like, he's always saying weird, like, kind of like hits passive aggressive. He's catching strays for no reason. There's like a whole section where I was like. And here's Duncan's pet. Like, they're going through the Montauk area. And then he focuses on a daddy long leg spider. And he's like. And there's Duncan Cameron. There's Duncan's pet that he's forcing me to take a picture of. And then it cut over to him going, Duncan Cameron was just going, I believe, acting out the monster. Like he was doing this thing. And he's like, there's Duncan being Duncan. Like, it's all like. They're just talking.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What Duncan could have used is a Montauk treadmill.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, once the Montauk chair moved beyond influencing the thoughts of the person sitting in it, it was discovered that the chair could be used to read the mind of the user. Although that person did need to be a powerful psychic for the chair to properly read work, the psychic would think specific thoughts which the Montauk Chair computers would quote, unquote, catch and translate to a display monitor. But as the scientists learned more about the Montauk chair and the alien technology contained therein, they found they could use the chair to amplify thoughts and minds to achieve incredible things. So by 1977, the transmitter system for the Montauk chair could be used to Receive and transmit any and all psychoactive functions. And it seemed like the sky was the limit as long as Duncan Cameron was the psychic in the seat.

[Marcus Parks]

And I can't stress enough. The Montauk chair. When I first thought of this, I was like, oh, it's going to be a big, ornate, fun looking sci fi chair.

[Ben Kissel]

Massive. Got to be like taking, you know, 10ft tall at least.

[Marcus Parks]

It's a recliner. It's crazy. Boy, it is literally crazy.

[Ben Kissel]

It's just a long island after that.

[Marcus Parks]

It is just exactly the same chair my uncle sat in. We met Rob's family today. I know. Your father has a chair that he sits in, right? Yeah, there's. Yeah, he's got one, right?

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, he's got a chair.

[Marcus Parks]

My father has a chair that no one else is allowed to sit in. It's my father's chair. No one would sit in it because for some reason the chair itself has become disgusting.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And it's just melting his balls into it.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

And so that's the Montauk chair.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, okay. That's just a recliner.

[Marcus Parks]

It is just a tasty Long island artifact.

[Ben Kissel]

It's. I imagined something that was sort of like the, like the Game of Thrones chair. Like the Game of Thrones Throne, but except made out of like electronics, you know, and there's all sorts of like monitors and shit attached to it.

[Marcus Parks]

Brown recliner.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I was, yeah, I was expecting like a metal chair with like a, like an electrocution helmet on.

[Marcus Parks]

I swear to God, it's a fucking. Just. They got it from. They just went down the street to one of those like, dumb shit Long.

[Ben Kissel]

Island bought discount furniture. Right? Well, the.

[Marcus Parks]

It's not really the chair that makes a chair. It's all stuff around it and the guy in it.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, the first seemingly impossible thing that Duncan Cameron claimed to have achieved was the ability to concentrate on just the thought of an object. And using nothing but the power of his mind, he claimed that he could produce said object out of thin air. I would imagine that's what it sounds like. Sounds like when something comes from another dimension.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is a dumb buffalo.

[Marcus Parks]

Put it back.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, the results of this thought matter transformation, however, were mixed fixed. Sometimes it was said that Duncan could conjure up just the image of an object which would disappear as soon as the Montauk chair was turned off. But once Duncan got really good at creating matter out of pure thought, the objects would be solid and they would remain long after the experiment ended. And it was even said that he could make new Buildings appear on the grounds of the Montauk base.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Would have been helpful after 9 11.

[Marcus Parks]

They really are straight up. Too much of a flex, Eddie. You can't do it all at once. It's just a giant building that just says like psychic Emporium. Some more planes, See, but I'm thinking.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Two more buildings, you fucking idiot.

[Marcus Parks]

We just print that shit.

[Ben Kissel]

On the more Stranger Things side of the Montauk project, Duncan claimed that in an experiment called the Seeing Eye, he could use an object that belonged to a person, like a lock of hair, and use that object as a conduit that would allow him to see, hear and feel everything that his target experience.

[Marcus Parks]

Do you feel that when we were younger, the idea of people giving and using locks of hair for things was like a much bigger thing?

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Now I've. I have not held a lock of someone's hair in a very long time.

[Ben Kissel]

No, I died with our guy. I think it died actually with the generation before us because no one ever gave me a lock of hair.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, who would ever give anybody a lock of hair? Has anybody done that? Your mom? Probably.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I have photo albums that my mom put together with locks of hair. Like in the photo album?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. I don't know what it was with locks of hair in the 80s and 70s. And 80s.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. Back to the 30s, 40s, 50s. Like these people have been doing locks. Like it's just us, you know, it's another thing millennials killed. We killed the lock of hair industry.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I blame us.

[Ben Kissel]

One after another after another. Well, Duncan claimed that he could use the seeing eye experiment to find anyone on the planet 99 times out of 100, if his powers were amplified by the Montauk Channel. And he even claimed that he could control people if he took his powers to the limits. Duncan, however, said that he could only reach the height of his powers by tapping into his secret CIA NSA psychosexual training.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, my brother taught me.

[Ben Kissel]

He said that he could put himself into a state of orgasmic trance by presumably tapping into Wilhelm Reich's orgone energies. And when he was in this state, he claimed that he was far more. More pliable for experiments.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So, NSA psycho sexual training. Yeah, it's basically just like watch chicks in the shower.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. That's what they do best. Well, it's what this is, man. This is gooning. No, it is gooning. This is the power of gooning. And that's what this. This whole Montauk project is literally powered by gooning. And that you have to stay in A perpetually semi hard state. State. Which is got to be exhausting for a while, especially for a man and a beret. That he's just sitting there. Just absolutely. I don't what would make him hard. I imagine thinking about trains and thinking. I think Duncan Cameron would be super into Miss Piggy. You know what I mean? For some reason in my mind I could see him.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Muppets guessing sandwiches.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, sure. No, that's Preston Nick.

[Ben Kissel]

No, Preston's more in the. Preston's the big boy. Duncan Cameron.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, he's the skinny boy.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. Now the experiments with Duncan Cameron and the Montauk chair continued in a sort of scattershot way to see what stuck. Although most of the time it seemed like Duncan was focusing his psychic energies on the poor local people of Montauk. It was said that Duncan could make TVs malfunction. And he could use telekinesis to destroy random rooms around town like a poltergeist. And could even make window shatter at will.

[Marcus Parks]

This is what's happening in my fucking childhood home. This is what was fucking going on. It's why my mom was. Was like. All I ever do is clean.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It wasn't us, it was Duncan.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

No, I. So you think he was reaching into Queens?

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, definitely. Woodhaven's not that far.

[Ben Kissel]

I guess it's not. No.

[Marcus Parks]

I was born close to Long Island. I was born in the Jamaica Hospital.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. And my wife was born in Long Island.

[Marcus Parks]

Nice.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Queens is the end of Long Island.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. So you were born on Long Island? Close, but it's.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm from Queens, not from Long Island.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But Long Queens is in Long Island.

[Marcus Parks]

But that's not called. That's not where that is. It's called Long Island. Long Island's only a certain area once you get past a certain area of Queens.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But it's all on the same island.

[Marcus Parks]

It is?

[Ben Kissel]

Yep. Good.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

So it's the same thing.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, Duncan also claimed that he could influence conscious creatures. He said he could cause animals from the surrounding wooded areas to invade Montauk. Or he could influence citizens to embark on spontaneous crime waves that would stop just as suddenly.

[Marcus Parks]

You know what no one's ready for, neither one of you is ready for, is how this whole thing created the Amityville horror case as well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Definitely not ready for that.

[Marcus Parks]

It's a whole side angle. This is. This whole.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Do they mention that?

[Marcus Parks]

Dude, you just have to read this stuff long enough and then anything that has taken place in the Tri State area can be applied to The Montauk Project?

[Ben Kissel]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

And that is the entire story. You ask me, how did the Montauk Project create the Amityville Horror Case?

[Henry Zebrowski]

How did the Montauk Project create the Amityville Horror Case? It did. It just seems like Duncan's telekinesis is his excuse for getting drunk and breaking everything.

[Marcus Parks]

It's a great excuse.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, unfortunately for Duncan, Cameron using the Montauk chair came at a price. Supposedly, since he was bombarded with intense radio and microwaves every time he used it, his brains and chest were being slowly cooked over time. Duncan claimed that this so called cooking was so intense that he had become effectively brain dead by the year 1986. He said he consulted with a neurologist and a group of psychics who all confirmed that while, yes, his brain was dead, his body and consciousness were still functioning at a relatively normal rate.

[Marcus Parks]

I need this dumb. I need to go talk to these guys. Yes, sir. The brain is dead, but your legs did carry you here.

[Ben Kissel]

And supposedly Duncan's doctor told him that the only way it was possible for Duncan to be brain dead, yet still apparently alive was because of his strong psychic powers.

[Marcus Parks]

I knew it. I knew I would be.

[Ben Kissel]

According to the doctor, the experiments had killed his living body, but his psychic self took over and held him together. So while his brain stem and spinal cord were alive, his actual brain was dead as a doornail.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That I believe.

[Marcus Parks]

I just want to ask, is there any way to switchy flip those? I have the other side be alive. Another side to be dead. Huh? Could we do flippy switch? Is there a flippy switch machine?

[Ben Kissel]

Why would you want a flippy switch?

[Marcus Parks]

Because right now I can't do things like laugh or dance or I guess dream or smile. I mostly just work.

[Ben Kissel]

Mm. And frown.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, my brain is dead. My brain is dead and I can't think of anything anymore. What do I think about? I don't even know how I'm talking. That's the thing. He's talking.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, he's talking.

[Marcus Parks]

He's hanging out.

[Ben Kissel]

No, it's because it's his psychic self that's doing all of it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, it's a great excuse on how to fall asleep mid conversation.

[Marcus Parks]

This is important, guys. You need to start writing this down.

[Ben Kissel]

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. It's just that, you know, my brain was cooked by all these experiments I was involved in in 1986.

[Marcus Parks]

What is this, a fucking Gen Z fucking guy here?

[Ben Kissel]

Duncan supposedly spent two years doing all sorts of psychic experiments at the Montauk project. But in 1979, his psychic thoughts suddenly stopped. Or so they thought. Eventually, the scientists figured out that Duncan Cameron's thoughts, like the sailors involved in the Philadelphia experiment had just entered, entered a different time stream. So Duncan refocused his energies and concentrated on using this accidental bridge to create an opening in time. Supposedly Duncan opened up his first portal in 1980, which created a 10 year bridge to the next decade. This tunnel was said to look more or less like what you'd see in the TV show Slider. Sliders. And a person could apparently just stroll through the tunnel. Tunnel. Just so long as Duncan kept concentrating on it.

[Marcus Parks]

But it was extremely difficult for him to concentrate on the tunnel. The tunnel was. Took a lot of psychic energy for him. Just hold up. Which is actually like one of the big problems of this whole fucking thing. Because it's all depending on Duncan Cameron. And then you look over and you think about this entire. Like again, imagine all this is real.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I am.

[Marcus Parks]

And you know, I'm just. All this is real. And then you have this $10 billion funded program by Nazi gold that A lot of pressures on a lot of people to fig figured what's going on here out, right? You got the whole thing, you got to make these time tunnels. You're obviously building a lot of plans of this now. But then you look at your go to guy, the guy that's supposed to get the fucking rock and the guy that's supposed to have the buzzer beater and you look at him and the fat brown lazy boy recliner that he's sitting in with a fucking colander strapped to his head and it's, it's fucking Duncan Cameron going, I hope today that we could go to the year 4000. And they're like, oh, great. Oh, good. This is exam now.

[Ben Kissel]

Within a year, the Montauk project had all but refocused the whole operation to time travel briefly. They rebranded themselves as Phoenix 3.

[Marcus Parks]

Whoa.

[Ben Kissel]

Complete with a brand new secret crew who'd been tapped to explore Duncan's time portals.

[Marcus Parks]

This is where you bring in the Sydney Sweeney. This is where you bring in the Zendaya. This is the whole second crew. This is the new generation. This is their fourth season.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. For some reason though, some of the Montauk scientists decided that along with the highly trained military crew. Crew. They'd send a few Montauk boys into the time vortex. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. I can't wait to go. Yeah. Fuck yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Let's go.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you bet. I don't want to live. I don't got a Future.

[Ben Kissel]

Anyways, the boys, ages 9 to 16, of course, got lost in the time.

[Marcus Parks]

Just like boys floating through time.

[Ben Kissel]

So the scientists, they sent in a local boy completely outside of the project to go round up all the other boys and bring him home. Once they got back, one boy claimed that he traveled as far as the year 6037.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow, that's a big TV. Wow, you guys got TVs, huh? That's great.

[Henry Zebrowski]

How would he know?

[Marcus Parks]

It's right there. Look, it says right there. It's a calendar. You know what they. I do have an answer, though.

[Ben Kissel]

But some Montauk boys were unfortunately lost for forever in the time stream.

[Marcus Parks]

I just love this idea of a portal opens up. This is a big time. And then you just grab a kid just getting done playing stickball to go. And then they're like, they're throwing him in there. He doesn't come back. This. But this whole thing revolves around this. You heard about this idea how they test the Montauk boys to see if they're working.

[Ben Kissel]

How they test them?

[Marcus Parks]

What they do is to see if the time tunnel's working, they throw them in the tunnel tube.

[Ben Kissel]

They throw the Montauk boy into.

[Marcus Parks]

Into the tube, and then they send them to the same year to calibrate their time travel. They send them to the same year. I think it's in that 2700 year range. And they're supposed to find a horse statue. Okay, that's in a field. And then they read the plate on the. The plaque on the horse statue. And then when they come back, if they could say the exact sentence that was on the horse statue, they knew the time travel travel worked.

[Ben Kissel]

But what if the boys is, like, really stupid?

[Marcus Parks]

I can't read. Yeah. Or you forget, gosh, we gotta interview these biscuits.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's not a biscuit. That's a horse.

[Marcus Parks]

Take a little boy from Montauk.

[Ben Kissel]

That future's stupid.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All right, time travel question.

[Ben Kissel]

Great.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All right, 60, 37. We all the world could be gone by then. We don't know. Yeah, you know, we don't know what's going on.

[Ben Kissel]

Civilization, at the very least, be gone.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What if you time travel to a time, Earth is blown up, swallowed by the sun. When you time travel there, are you just floating in space?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, that's where the Earth should have been.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, that's the thing that's also one of the questions of time travel is if you travel through time, if the Earth is constantly moving towards space. So there's the idea that if you travel forward in Time. And you don't touch time. It just correctly. Then you will end up floating in space because you're traveling from the specific point that you're at, but the earth is not there anymore.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So you would have to. You would have to go to the exact time and space.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah. You'd have to do a lot of calculations to make sure, like, you can't travel to, like, any time. You have to travel to one that would correspond with the earth being in that specific.

[Marcus Parks]

Like, why do you think Duncan Cameron was so tired? Yes. This is extremely hard for him. He has never had a job.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So it would always have to be on April 10th. Like, if I try and time travel today, I.

[Marcus Parks]

We don't know.

[Ben Kissel]

I don't know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Ben Kissel]

Depends on the earth's rotation.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah. And there's leap years.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Which makes the earth twice its size.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You know.

[Ben Kissel]

Okay. Then all of a sudden, I'm in Monterey.

[Marcus Parks]

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[Ben Kissel]

Before long, the Montauk project figured out how to use the time vortex tunnels to travel not only through time, but space as well. Although, again, it seems like this ability was discovered entirely by accident.

[Marcus Parks]

Technically, time travel is the same as traveling through space.

[Ben Kissel]

Space, technically, sure. While Duncan was.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I get it.

[Ben Kissel]

While Duncan was opening time portals, sometime in the early 80s, he suddenly found himself opening direct portals to the planet Mars. And it was discovered that Mars was filled to the brim with pyramids.

[Marcus Parks]

Can't even. Yeah, you can't walk down the street Mars without tripping over a pyramid.

[Ben Kissel]

The pyramids on Mars are supposedly pretty much the same pyramids that we have here. Earth. But cold.

[Marcus Parks]

Super cold.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, super cold. But they're both filled with ancient alien technology. But while the pyramids on Earth have all been plundered by other alien races, the pyramids on Mars were sealed with extra security. So all that ancient alien technology shits up for grabs.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, dude.

[Ben Kissel]

So to try and access the technology, Duncan Cameron used the Montauk chair to travel first to the year 1943. For reasons unexplained, he missed it.

[Marcus Parks]

He missed the tax rate.

[Ben Kissel]

Then he used the chair to open a vortex directly inside the Mars pyramids, where he found a sort of defense system that was keeping aliens out of our solar system.

[Marcus Parks]

It's apparently this amazing thing. I don't know what it is. It's called a D. The code is 11.

[Ben Kissel]

Duncan turned the system off again for reasons unexplained. And that, Duncan claims, is why UFOs began turning up on Earth en masse starting in the 1940s. Because he went back in time and turned off the security system on Mars in 1943.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Did he say I'm sorry?

[Marcus Parks]

Did he say I'm sorry for this one?

[Ben Kissel]

I don't think he did.

[Marcus Parks]

No. He said I'm sorry to the boys. Yeah. And I bet you one of those boys was Barack Obama. Because Barack Obama was on Mars as a part of a different time traveling boys scenario on the Project Serpo storyline, which is all happening, happening at the same time. Barack Obama was a Project Serpo boy that was trained in space slash time travel. And he actually was on the planet Mars. He was a part of the team scooping up that ancient technology from those pyramids.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And if you don't believe that, you can just check his birth certificate.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you go ahead and believe. Another word out of the mouth of Barack Hussein Obama.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, after many years of using the Montauk chair, it seems like Duncan had finally had his fill of the Montauk experience by 1983.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm just kind of burnout.

[Ben Kissel]

It's unclear whether what happened next was planned or spontaneous, but Duncan claims that through the power of his mind, he was able to shut down the whole project in just one day.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, dude, he was fucking sick of that shit. Dude. Fucking take this job and shove it.

[Ben Kissel]

On August 12, 1983, Duncan was supposedly strapped down in the chair for an experiment. But for some reason, he began imagining, imagining a fearsome monster. The fearsome monster was a massive humanoid creature standing nine feet tall with a long snout, small eyes, and a mouthful of sharp teeth. People describe it as looking like the most aggressive Sasquatch imagine imaginable.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So it was Conan O'Brien.

[Marcus Parks]

He's just like. Duncan Cameron is just like. It's a very cartoony sounded monster.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. But just as Duncan was imagining it, the creature supposedly conjured itself into existence right in the middle of the lab, where it wrecked everything in its path and actually began eating any Montauk scientists it could get its hands on.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Finally, someone's killing these Nazis.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, he did. Like they had a pad, right. So they had a thing where. Where they were developing and is it. Eventually they used the time travel portal to squirt things out of it. They had a special receiving area that would be like a 3D printer for a bunch of all these things that he was making up. And that was when the monster came through. Right. And that was before because it was. I guess it's like Preston Nichols, because again, Prestal Nichols says he did not organize anything. No, his job was to run the ones and zeros on the chair. That's what he Did. Right. He was the. He's just a. Literally, he's just a tech guy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So who organized it? Von Neumann.

[Marcus Parks]

Von Neumann, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Von Newman and Al Bil.

[Marcus Parks]

And all the people above all the people that we don't know above all of this. Right. And the wingmakers, the. The robots from the future. And so this is a. It's all real. And so this came out. He was already feeling upset because Duncan Cameron was watching all of these boys disappear. And he missed the boys. And the boys were his friends. The boys were the only ones talking to him because he was a lonely Long island weirdo. And there's nothing. A bunch of like Long island weirdos for some reason always sort of attract like a bunch of like weird fanboys.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah. Actually that does happen quite a bit.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, I know, like, probably grooming in a way, but.

[Ben Kissel]

Strange old man. No, no. I hung out with plenty of strange old men when I was a kid.

[Marcus Parks]

No, I know.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And nothing happened. Okay. No, he'd be talking about if it happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

You'd know if it happened.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

No.

[Marcus Parks]

Unless you had your mind wiped.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, that was really only one of them that I think came close. All the rest, he was definitely grooming me with basketball cards. Without.

[Marcus Parks]

Without a doubt.

[Ben Kissel]

But yeah, most of them were just weird, lonely old men who like speaking with boys.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, they exist.

[Marcus Parks]

Kids, you can hang out. It's hard these days. It's not the same.

[Ben Kissel]

It's much harder. Yeah. I think that ninet the last time.

[Marcus Parks]

That you could really just hang out with a boy all day. I have no insane.

[Ben Kissel]

A weird single old man could hang out with a boy all day long and it was fine. In fact, people paid him to do so.

[Marcus Parks]

You know what I wish that we could do in this generation that we can't do? It's entirely innocent, but I miss it. Seeing a random little boy in the street, giving him 10 bucks and say, go get something from the store for me. Come back.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, like a mobster.

[Marcus Parks]

I miss that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's nice. That's very nice. We had a guy in our neighborhood who used to take all the kids to the movies all the time. Imagine that happening today.

[Marcus Parks]

He was a solo dude. He was a solo ass dude living by himself.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And he would take us all to the movies and we'd come back and be like, Oliver Co. Was great. And I mean, I'm fine.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you didn't get got. And I feel like it was a lot of home. You. You ever go to a home? Babysitter that had a bunch of other kids in it.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah. It's called an unlicensed daycare.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. A lot of Montauk boys.

[Ben Kissel]

No, that was actually.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

When I was five, I went to one of those, and in order to keep me quiet while the other kids were taking. Taking naps, the person, the woman who ran the place just let me watch Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom over and over and over and over again.

[Marcus Parks]

That's a cool babysitter, you're gonna say.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Tied you to a chair.

[Ben Kissel]

Now back to the creature. Accounts vary as to how large this creature supposedly was.

[Marcus Parks]

Super big. It is very also very funny. Here Preston Nichols. Go. The monster. The monster came through here each time. And you can see here at the height of the monster, we saying it's anywhere from 9ft to 30ft. Everybody's got something different. Everyone's seen monsters from different angles.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, they did. Some people said it was nine feet, some people said it was three stories tall. But what we do know, supposedly, is that when the creature appeared in Mandan's rampage, our hero from episode one, Preston Nichols, was in the room.

[Marcus Parks]

You stop, monster. Choose peace. Choose peace, monster.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, by Preston's account, the creature, which he later named Junior, was probably 10ft tall. But even though Preston was terrified, he said that he was ordered to shut down the transmitters in an attempt to send the monster back to the netherworld.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, he KNEW he was 10ft tall because he could dunk a basketball at him.

[Marcus Parks]

And honestly, super humiliating because I never played horse with the Bigfoot. Yeah, we can do about it.

[Ben Kissel]

There was, however, a hitch here. See, in order for Preston's powerful psychic energies to work at maximum power, he had to connect with the past version of himself. And apparently, this whole time, Duncan's 1943 version had just been hanging around on the USS Eldridge next to a transmitter, and the two versions were working together. But since Duncan was too busy conjuring the monster, there was no one available to open a time vortex in 1943 to tell the other Duncan to turn off the transmitter on his side. See?

[Marcus Parks]

Common mistake.

[Ben Kissel]

That's why you have redundancies.

[Marcus Parks]

That's why you got a plan.

[Ben Kissel]

So when Preston Nichols was given the order to shut it all down, he took the same approach Duncan and Ed had taken when they had to shut down the Philadelphia experiment, which was to basically run around and wreck shit until the power turned off. As such, after cutting numerous wires and turning off every transmitter and electrical transformer he could find, Preston Nichols was finally successful and making The Beast disappear, but not before the. The beast wrecked the lab and killed many of the scientists.

[Marcus Parks]

The kids.

[Ben Kissel]

Imagine being a Mont. Like, Montauk boy, like, showing up like.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, guys, I'm back from 2394. Oh, God, look at that big. No, honestly, it's fun. It is. All of this is fun. This is like. They also said a lot of this. The difficult part was that because the. The U.S. eldrich, according to USS Eldrich, never shut off.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

That's like one of these things that they kind of say that, like, that experiment essentially destroyed and changed reality in a way that was real bad in this timeline, and that what it did is that it also made these things last a super long time. So it actually, when they said that, when they finally cut all the power supplies off, I thought it was interesting that they said the monster didn't immediately disappear. He, like, slowly, part by part, disappeared.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now I'm imagining. Imagining the red monster from Bugs Bunny.

[Ben Kissel]

That's a good one.

[Marcus Parks]

That is a good one.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I feel like that's the one that would deal with this.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, following the beast rampage, in which it killed a fair amount of scientists, and I would imagine a whole slew of Montauk boys.

[Marcus Parks]

I'll die for you.

[Ben Kissel]

Just throw the Montauk boys at him again. And again and again. The military allegedly decided that the Montauk project was getting out of hand, so the entire operation was shut down. All evidence of the project was either sealed away in the six underground levels allegedly below what is now Camp Hero State park, or it was all carried away while the Montauk project technology was used to wipe the memories of everyone who worked on it, including Al Bilik, Duncan Cameron, and Preston Nichols. And these people were just sort of sent out into the world with wiped minds.

[Marcus Parks]

Good work, boys. Thanks for your. All your hard work here in the. For the US Government. Now go be homeless.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

All right. See you later.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Like, when they wiped their minds, did they still know, like, English?

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

No, they just wiped. They were able to very specifically target only the parts in the Montauk project. Everything else was still there.

[Marcus Parks]

Okay. Oh, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Good for them.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. It's incredible.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I could lose a couple things.

[Ben Kissel]

I could. Honestly, I could lose a couple of things as well. Yeah. Now, the Montauk project was supposed to stay buried, but Preston Nichols claimed to have found his way back to the Montauk site almost entirely by accident, despite having no memories of it. See, Preston said that while he was working for the Montauk project, he was Also working for a defense contractor named BJM as an electrical engineer.

[Marcus Parks]

It was Brookhaven. I forget what else it was. He did, technically, he did do that.

[Ben Kissel]

He was. He was definitely an electrical engineer. Yeah, we do know that. So when the Montauk project ended, Preston said he continued his life working for BJM elsewhere on Long Island, I believe. But seemingly just a few months after his mind was wiped, Preston obtained a grant from someone to study telepathic communication.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, they said that, to be honest, he was such an attractive candidate for all of these super secret things because he got a master's in parapsychology from Long Island University, where he said that this was the most. The most. He's like, they couldn't believe that I had my own master's degree in parapsychology. It's the only one ever given to anybody here from sweet, sweet Long Island.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Didn't he also claim to have a. A degree from the University of Tampa?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay. And he didn't.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't know. According. I don't know any large files.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They didn't.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't have the legit information.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

I have all of this information.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All right, I'm sorry. I'll retract my question.

[Ben Kissel]

Please save all reality based questions for the end.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

See, according to Preston, the way that telepathy and radio waves work similar. And since he was already an expert in frequencies, he had decided to branch out into studying paranormal phenomena by collaborating with psychics to see just how related these two things were. Preston claimed that he soon discovered that there was a certain frequency that could jam psychic abilities, just as one can jam radar. That's the 410-420 MHz radio frequency. And some of Preston's local Long island psychics were complaining about getting jammed up.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm fucking jammed up as. Dude, I've been trying to figure out. I ain't checking. I ain't going the restaurant to see if they got reservations though. But I just want to know. I want to know if they got it opening for nine for 12 people. Because it's my sister's communion. She's coming through a whole thing with the one whole thing. People come in from out of town.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You get jammed up because you're eating all that cheese.

[Marcus Parks]

That's the problem. And then I could have a little arugula that breaks it up. Some prosciutt. It's too much moose at all. That's the problem.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, in 1984, the year after the Montauk project was supposedly shut down, Down. Preston took a VHF receiver and drove around Long island, tracking this jamming frequency until he finally found the source. Preston claimed that the psychic jamming frequency was broadcasting from a radar antenna at Fort Hero Air Force Base on Montauk Point, which is, of course, the location of the Montauk project. But remember, Preston had all of his memories of the Montauk project wiped. So as far as he was concerned, when he showed up on Fort Hero, he'd never been there before in his life, even though he had, or so he claimed. So when he began. So when he began exploring the now abandoned base and found high voltage radio equipment, his interest was piqued.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Through the surplus disposal agency, Preston tried buying this equipment, but the SDA couldn't find any record of the equipment existing. Eventually, Preston was contacted by a man with the suspicious, simple name of John Smith.

[Marcus Parks]

Whoa.

[Ben Kissel]

John Smith told Preston that no one officially owned the equipment. So as far as the SDA was concerned, Preston could just take it.

[Marcus Parks]

He literally could just go to the field and just take all this shit from this place.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's the same thing that John Smith did with Pocahontas.

[Marcus Parks]

He did.

[Ben Kissel]

Additionally, the mysterious John Smith also gave Preston a piece of paper and told him to show it to anyone who might question why this corpulent Long island islander was plundering a military base.

[Marcus Parks]

You might want to look at my permission slip.

[Ben Kissel]

It's printed on paper.

[Marcus Parks]

Look at it. And they're like, you know what? We were all gonna care about this. Just get the away from me in my park. John Smith signed this. Oh, wow. Oh, then definitely go right in. Go right over the four and a half foot fence.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, once Preston got his free pass, he began bringing a psychic friend around Fort Hero. Eventually, they spoke with a caretaker, a man named Mr. Anderson. Mr. Anderson, who very helpfully showed Preston and his psychic around the grounds while encouraging them to take anything they wanted.

[Marcus Parks]

Take this, of course. Take this trash can. As you can see, I find garbage to be a virus.

[Ben Kissel]

This courtesy, however, was extended to just one single day. Mr. Anderson told Preston and his psychic friend that they could explore and take stuff, but if they came back a second time, Mr. Anderson was gonna have to, quote, take Preston out, because I.

[Marcus Parks]

Like you, and there's something about you that I wish that I had in a friend, and I wish we could go to dinner, and I wish that maybe after dinner we could go get gelato.

[Ben Kissel]

And so Preston and his psychic friend began exploring the base, where they soon ran into another man wandering the grounds. A man who appeared to Be homeless.

[Marcus Parks]

It's just because I'm not inside.

[Ben Kissel]

This man, however, did have an incredible amount of information as to what had occurred on Camp Hero in the recent past.

[Marcus Parks]

I'll tell you everything about this whole stupid place, huh?

[Ben Kissel]

It's sort of like, you know, like Chris Farley in Wayne's World. Like, wow. He had a lot of information for a limo driver. It's kind of like this is that guy.

[Marcus Parks]

It's the Exposition man.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah. This mysterious, quite rough looking man told Preston that the base had been used for all manner of experiments. Then he began rattling off a bevy of technical details about the machinery used in these experiments and how everything worked. The man then said that all of it had just come crashing down one day when, quote, a big beast appeared and frightened everyone away. The kicker, however, came when this obviously disturbed man told Preston Nichols that Preston had not only worked on projects in the very base in which they were standing, but that Preston had, in fact, been this man's boss.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, my God. Somebody let me be a boss. Oh, God, what a horrible timeline was that. I had trouble finding my suspenders this morning, and it turns out they were on my shoulders because I could see past my pendulous Long Island Mantis. I shouldn't be in charge of a Jersey Mike's.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, Preston claims that he was skeptical about all the shit this mysterious man had told him.

[Marcus Parks]

I know, buddy, you smell like piss and you look like shit, but I gotta say, you're saying things I like because it means I was a boss to somebody.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's all this man's fault.

[Ben Kissel]

And we're gonna get to that here in a second. We're seriously gonna get to that here in a minute.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow. I'm great. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

But when Preston asked his psychic to probe the man's mind, the psychic supposedly confirmed that everything Preston's alleged former employee said was true. Ah, he's telling the truth.

[Marcus Parks]

I can tell he's telling the truth. And you owe him a recommendation for working at Bally's Gym.

[Ben Kissel]

So, going off what his psychic friend found when delving into the mind of a ranting vagrant making claims of monsters and mind control on an abandoned military base, Preston was 100% on board with the idea and began investigating further.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. So you could hear. Now, Preston would come back. On and on again, it said, this is a, he go back to the Montauk base now. I found and sat and watched this two hour long tour of the Montauk base. I was in the bath.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Ben Kissel]

B, your bath.

[Marcus Parks]

I never Felt so fat as I was sitting. I literally sat. I had a beer. I'm in the bath. I did the thing too. I look at my like, toes are out of the water. You know, like a big kind of fat style. I have, like, I have a little head pillow I was wearing. And I sat with my. And I'm watching my UFO documentaries and I'm just sitting there watching it in the bath and stuff.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And then I was like, how you're gonna die. Just a big fat you in a bathtub with a laptop electrocuted you.

[Marcus Parks]

No, it's on the sink.

[Ben Kissel]

Slurry.

[Marcus Parks]

The laptop's on the sink or on the toilet. Oh. Because it's into my mind.

[Ben Kissel]

This is the bunker where the Mont.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Talk Boys project was done. This is where the boys were actually struck, stripped of their mind, and the.

[Ben Kissel]

Mind was reformed through computers and reinserted.

[Henry Zebrowski]

In the body of the boy.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep. This is two hours of this. Pointing at random things inside of this building. And they put it to this very like I. It's one of those things where I kind of almost feel bad for the younger generation because they don't get the magic of this.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

This is a fully digitally revolution create like captured VHS tape. And you really get the feeling of it. Like you could see why it felt real. If you were watching this on a shitty TV in your rumpus room, this would scare the out of you.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, it looks crazy. Yeah, yeah, it looks. It does look real. It does look like something sinister went down there.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah. It's an abandoned military base there somehow have total access to.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cuz no one cares.

[Marcus Parks]

Nobody cares what's happening.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. And the fence again is about 4ft.

[Marcus Parks]

Tall, which is about 3ft higher than I can jump.

[Ben Kissel]

But all this, of course, has his investigation of the tour. This came much later.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

Where we're at right now in the story, Preston Nichols is still just trying to figure out what went on. So he started with the town of Montauk itself, went down, started talking to locals, and he soon discovered during his initial investigation that many locals actually recognized. Recognized him. Furthermore, those locals had quite a few tales to tell about the strange things that supposedly happened in Montauk because of the base at Fort Hero. Allegedly. Several people said that experiments at the base had caused snow to fall in the middle of the summer, and hurricane force winds could be summoned in an instant, along with random lightning and hail storms. More disturbing, though, was what the base was supposedly able to. To do with animals. At times. Locals said that herds of animals would come marching into town in large groups and would sometimes come crashing through windows for no reason whatsoever.

[Marcus Parks]

We were in the middle of the local softball game of the. It was the plumbers union versus the firemen. And about 25 badges came over the one of the railings of the the field. And my God, the blood. Watching those union guys. My proud union boys and my fire boys just beat the living out all these badges, Beating them to death with the baseball bats. Spread the bullet everywhere. It was one of the craziest. Honestly, even even got to think about it. We were laughing a lot.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, but it was just. It was unexpected.

[Ben Kissel]

It was the day that hooky Joe died of the heart attack.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. He was swinging on that bad.

[Ben Kissel]

He was swinging on the bed. Do you remember that?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I remember that.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Yeah. We don't need no sticking badgers. That's from uhf.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes. Well, Preston then supposedly spoke to the Montauk police chief, who told him that the town was plagued with sudden crime sprees that would end just as quickly. Teenagers, he said, would also act strangely, sometimes gathering in groups for up to two hours at a time before suddenly dispersing.

[Marcus Parks]

I can't stand the idea of people hanging out for to two hours. People just visit. Fuck that. Fuck that shit. Is this communist Russia? Oh, can I also add. At the end of all this, I just want to tack on a little bit of the real world stuff of watching the Gilgo beach murder documentary on Netflix, talking about how the Suffolk county sheriffs didn't. They literally covered up the entire serial killer's reign to cover up the fact that they were visiting the same sex boy workers, that the serial killer was Rex Newerman. And it seems to just kind of be a part of that. Yeah, all this could be all an extended part of that same thing. Yeah, a little bit.

[Ben Kissel]

Put it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So the Montauk boys are the serial killers in Long Island?

[Marcus Parks]

No, the Montauk boys are the boy sex workers. Let's say sex volunteers. That they were forced through these scenarios and stuff. They were super upset about it. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because workers get paid.

[Marcus Parks]

You're right.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. Now, we don't know how or why, but in 1985, after Preston Nichols had been investigating the base at Fort Hero for about a year, Duncan Cameron showed up on Preston's doorstep.

[Marcus Parks]

Hello.

[Ben Kissel]

Duncan informed Preston that every suspicion he had about the Montauk project was correct and that they had in fact, actually worked together numerous times on time travel experiments. Duncan, however, said that he was still a little fuzzy on the whole thing because his memories about The Montauk Project would phase in and out, but Preston claimed to have the ability to use hypnosis to recover repressed memories. So with Preston's help, Duncan claimed that he was able to eventually remember the whole story of what really went down in Montauk. Now, from what it seems like to me, there is a sequence of actual real life events that led to the creation of the Montauk Project's. All this is, of course, just my own speculation. See, as far as how Preston came to discover Fort Hero, there very well could have been some weird frequency coming from the grounds in 1984, because the base hadn't been shut down all that long. And it was possible that some equipment was still running somewhere. Preston Nichols was also probably researching the link between psychic abilities and radio frequencies. Because going off footage of Preston's home, he really does have a thing for frequencies and sound.

[Marcus Parks]

I sent this to Marcus. I sent him. Not this one, but I sent Marcus a clip of Preston Nichols hanging out in his house. And I said, do you even lift, bro? This man, his entire life is sound sounds.

[Ben Kissel]

He does it. He is on a different level than me, I'll tell you that.

[Marcus Parks]

If you walk into us watching footage of his home, obviously we talked about the wall to wall, like sound equipment and the stuff going on like that he has, but his ceiling was just like pumping out religious radio, right? Like really, really intense. And on top of his house sits. What he does is a rebuild of a fake thing called the Delta T antenna. According to Preston Nichols, right? You put the antenna on top of his house. And I want you to hear now, he shot some video in this base tour. He shot some video outside of his own home. And I want you to imagine you live in East Islip. You're in a little suburban country. It's like a nice house. And this is your next door neighbo. He has got a 12 foot tall, pyramid shaped intent on his house making this noise. That's just from the. This is from the street. You're hearing the noise from his house. That this can't be good for anybody.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is why they have pots on their head.

[Marcus Parks]

This is why Preston Nichols is this way.

[Ben Kissel]

Because he's living in this.

[Marcus Parks]

He is all time surrounded by 9G, whatever this is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He's constantly frying his brain.

[Marcus Parks]

He is frying his brain. He sleeps in this shitty like bed.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You can see the whole antenna structure here. This is the Delta T antenna.

[Marcus Parks]

You can cut it. This is the. It's just. I can't even.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But it's for nothing.

[Marcus Parks]

It's not her. It's connected into his speakers. God knows what it's doing.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, no idea. I mean, frequencies can have like, certain sound frequencies definitely have an. Can have an effect on your brain.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, but I know not all of them. I know that we just prove that radio waves don't really do anything to you, but I feel like if you're covered in them. Yeah, it can't be that good.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a different type of white noise.

[Marcus Parks]

Aren't you supposed to not be under power lines? Is that bad for you?

[Ben Kissel]

No, you're not supposed to. Not directly underneath.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't think anything is supposed to be that humming that loud that you're supposed to be sleeping. Sleeping under.

[Ben Kissel]

Nope. If Preston did track the frequency to the abandoned base, it is quite possible that he and his psychic friend were simply approached by a mentally ill homeless man wandering the grounds, who told them an insane story about monsters and secret government time travel experiments. But as you can probably tell from Preston's stories about his life prior to the Montauk project, all the stuff about being friends with Jim Morrison and creating the wall of sound, all that, Preston definitely leans towards flights of fancy. And when his psychic friend, quote unquote, confirmed the mentally ill man's story with so called psychic powers, it was off to the races for Preston. Preston soon started wandering around Montauk, kicking up dust, talking to everyone he could find about any weird that might have happened. Duncan Cameron, meanwhile, who certainly has his own fanciful ways of thinking he may have come, caught wind of Preston's investigation. Duncan then goes to Preston's house with half a story. But through the process of so called hypnotic regression, which is notorious for creating false memories, Duncan and Preston were able to.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ben Kissel]

And each other into creating the entire Montauk project narrative. And you're right, Ed. It is that one guy's fault.

[Marcus Parks]

It could be.

[Ben Kissel]

I think so. It's possible. It's very possible.

[Marcus Parks]

I have, like, obviously I have a cockamamie. There's so many different ways we've talked about about this. Like, what's the truth here? What are we seeing here?

[Henry Zebrowski]

The truth is that nothing happened their entire life. And then this guy came, spouted nonsense at them, and gave them a purpose for being alive.

[Marcus Parks]

It's true. Or like, you know, on one level, like the very top of it, if it. It's all true, which is obviously not sure. But then I have like, a fun middle theory that's like. Okay, let's just say during this time period when the intelligence offices were running amok with black budgets and they could do anything they want. Let's say you have a couple of wing nuts right under some farm makers, please. You're right. We got some guys that decide, let's see what these microwaves do on a bunch of little boys, right? Which is not that far away from what they were doing with MK Ultra.

[Ben Kissel]

Not that.

[Marcus Parks]

Not that far. So it's like, what if at some point they are frying a bunch of. Like you're zapping a bunch of people with these rays. Preston Nichols said something interesting on a interview with Art Bell that he said that was like he all is kind of talking. This is a. Early in the story development, he said that he. He had a thought that the time travel never worked, that it was all mind control, that all the time travel stuff was an implanted thing in their heads to make them sound insane. And that actually what it was, was it was an entire place that was just frying boys. And then eventually some government guy was like, okay, what's happening here? We're doing what here? And then said like, there is rid of it. Get rid of these fucking idiots. Make them homeless. Yeah, get them out of here. And then they stumbled back later on.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You can't convict me of a crime. It's 2137.

[Marcus Parks]

And you're like, ah, we did it too good.

[Ben Kissel]

No matter how the story was created, I do think that Preston Nichols believed that it was real and therefore took the whole thing extremely seriously. By July of 1986, he'd assembled a group of investigators who were all on board with discovering the truth behind the Montauk project. Once they felt they had a good narrative going, they traveled to Chicago, where Preston gave a lecture to hundreds of people at the U.S. psychotronics association, which is a nonprofit dedicated to studying esoteric, spiritual and psychic arts because mainstream science refuses to do so.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, because they're fucking weak and suck.

[Ben Kissel]

U.S. psychotronics association, by the way, still going strong to this day and is currently chaired by a channeler named John Clemo, who I'm sure has quite a few opinions on the efficacy of. Of Oregon accumulators.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm going to say this right now, guys. Remember, we just went through a little bit of a ride in the stock market by the dip. The U.S. psychotronics Association. That stock's on the rise. We are trying to make it go public. Buy in. Time to buy in. Let's go. Psychic stock going up.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Still doing turtlenecks.

[Marcus Parks]

I know, I know.

[Ben Kissel]

But after giving that speech. Preston Nichols had before long formed a bit of a Montauk crew. He of course, had Duncan Cameron on board. But Al Bilik soon showed up as well. And what's Duncan and Al got got going. They eventually cooked up the time traveling brothers living in their second body slash live storyline.

[Marcus Parks]

When the three of them together, it's like, what was that? That super group with Willie Nelson, John the Highwayman. Man, it is the Highwaymen, dude. They. They just feel that groove, dude. Yeah, they all just. One. One drops bass, the other one picks up where the other one left off.

[Ben Kissel]

I would say they're more like very talented jazz improv players.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. But with conspiracy theory.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Being Fat Ford hero. That makes so much sandwiches. Wow. Sandwich based economy.

[Ben Kissel]

From there, the crew hooked up with author Peter Moon, who began doing investigations of his own. Now, these men were making some pretty wild claims. So Peter figured it would be good to contact the head of the Montauk Historical Society, a man named Dick White, to see if this man could confirm or deny any of these events. This poor, poor man, Dick White.

[Marcus Parks]

Hi. Nice to meet you. Yep, you guessed it. The curtains match the drape.

[Henry Zebrowski]

A lot of people don't know this. It's actually pink.

[Marcus Parks]

It's pink as all get out, buddy. You won't mistake it.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, to Peter Moon's credit, he did publish Dick White's incredibly patient responses to his questions. Dick said that he didn't recall any out of season hurricanes or snowstorms, nor did he ever hear anything about large groups of wild animals running rampant through town. Although he did remember one time when a couple of deer crashed into a phone booth.

[Marcus Parks]

That's crazy day, dude. That was crazy. Ever had venison ravioli? We did.

[Ben Kissel]

Dick White, however, did refer Peter to some other Montauk locals, including the former gardener at Fort Hero. The gardener said that sometimes when he was mowing, he would run over pieces of metal that would give, and those pieces of metal would give him electric shocks. We kept doing it because it's his.

[Marcus Parks]

Job and it's fun. They kept saying stuff like, stop running over the metal. You'll get a chalk. And I said, no, this is my favorite time. This is where I like to be. I'm one with the grass. That guy's smart. That guy cotton grass. He gets it. He doesn't need the rat race. He doesn't need the corporate ladder. He just loves sitting on that mower. Hanging out on Long Island. Yep. Yeah, you're right. I got some macabre. I am My water bottle.

[Ben Kissel]

Peter claims that the gardener's electric shocks were evidence of a highly charged electrical field in the vicinity of the base. From what it seems.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, did you say. For a second, I thought he said electric sharks. Like.

[Ben Kissel]

You think at this point in the game I'm going to introduce electric sharks?

[Marcus Parks]

I just. I mean, I just. I'm more.

[Ben Kissel]

I'm much more likely to introduce electric sharts. Oh, because of the Italians.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

It's electric and they shart a lot.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, they do. Because of the fucking. It's gravy. Son of gravy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's those electric charts. They are in a Montauk chair.

[Ben Kissel]

From what it seems like Peter put far more stock into the gardener's claims than in what the head of the Montauk Historical Society had to say. That was more the direction Peter Moon went in when they started writing the books.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, buddy. I think. Yeah. The guys. That Mr. Mr. Penis White is a bummer. This guy is a. That Gardner knows what's going on.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, despite very brief.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, he's taking his overall soft again. Put him back on. You gotta put your overalls on before we talk to the guy. We've seen you dingleberries.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, despite very brief moments of clarity, Peter Moon still went along with all the absolutely insane that Preston Nichols and Duncan Cameron claimed. And eventually they wrote five books on the subject of the Montauk project. And my God, there is so much we did not talk about that is serious.

[Marcus Parks]

There's so much more Montauk Project DLC that we have not been.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We can't include, like, the Acid Cabin.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, yeah, yeah, the Acid Cabin. There's this whole thing with this guy that says that he was a Montauk boy who was sent back in time to assassinate Jesus Christ so he could get Jesus his blood. So they could mix the blood with Duncan Cameron's blood and put it on the Shroud of Turin so they could prove that Duncan Cameron was the savior. But Duncan Cameron was also the Antichrist because Duncan Cameron was also friends with Alistair Crowley in a previous life. I'm talking about Crowley.

[Marcus Parks]

Stuff we haven't even gotten into.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They also claim Timothy Leary was there.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

They also claimed there's also.

[Marcus Parks]

We never touched the nine rulers of the White Lodge. Yeah, that's a whole here that we could touch.

[Ben Kissel]

No, this. This universe is. They extended. Yeah, Five books. Like, it's a massive, massive universe. And the more they wrote, the less sense it makes.

[Marcus Parks]

This is the show that it should have been. Yeah, I understand why they didn't do stranger things this way because of all the sexual assault that would have needed when portrayed. Yeah, but I think that the rest of it could have been way interesting if they did it that way, because what are they? Dementors were the man. What was the monsters from Stranger Things.

[Ben Kissel]

Demogorgon.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. So the Demogorgons are kind of like the. The.

[Ben Kissel]

The beast. Yeah, yeah, it was.

[Marcus Parks]

It called the Upside down, where they went.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, the Upside Down.

[Marcus Parks]

What was the one in get out.

[Ben Kissel]

The Undergrounds? The sink. The Sinking place.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, the Sunken place. Yeah, yeah, it's all the same.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, man. It's all Montauk project type shit. Well, as far as Preston Nichols went, he claimed that all of his memories about the Montauk project returned in 1990 when he accidentally electrocuted himself while constructing a Delta T antenna on the roof of his science laboratory.

[Marcus Parks]

Can you please prescribe? Pronounce it correctly. Delta T antenna. Excuse me?

[Ben Kissel]

Delta T antenna.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So this is all from brain damage?

[Ben Kissel]

No, no. It unlike. It put him on a different time track.

[Marcus Parks]

It helped his brain be that way.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, but once the whole story was out there, Preston claimed that he spent the latter years of his life finding and deprogramming all the Montauk boys who were scattered to the winds when Duncan Cameron's mind monster destroyed the lab and shut the hole whole thing down.

[Marcus Parks]

But I had to find a sunken pirate ship. And it was like a whole thing where they were trying to save their house. And then I went down there, and they were finding all the treasure, and there was the Asian kid with all the technology, and then there was. There was a fat kid who was kind of funny, and I love that. I love those Montag boys. Well, there they are now. Hey, you guys.

[Ben Kissel]

Preston also claimed that because he insisted on telling the truth, he was spied on for years by invisible men hanging out in his yard.

[Marcus Parks]

You see that guy over there? You see that guy over there? Nah. Exactly.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, he knew that these were Montauk people because Montauk boys were sometimes given invisibility suits that were capable of shifting into alternate realities.

[Marcus Parks]

That's how they look.

[Ben Kissel]

I don't know why, but that's like. For me, that's like the fucking breaking point.

[Marcus Parks]

Can you just imagine giving a Montauk boy an invisibility suit? He'd just be in the girl's bathroom.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, constantly. He wouldn't move. He wouldn't leave.

[Marcus Parks]

Just.

[Ben Kissel]

It was just what if.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Good fun. You just naked and you're like, I'm wearing my invisibility.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, hey, I'm not naked. Get that Mon boy out of there. That naked Montauk boy made criminals out of all of us.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He's not naked. He's wearing the business Billy suit.

[Marcus Parks]

I can see his invisibility dick. Oh, I get it.

[Ben Kissel]

The suit's invisible. Not me.

[Marcus Parks]

Good prank, guys.

[Ben Kissel]

It's funny now. The entire Montauk crew, including Preston Nichols, Peter Moon, Al Bilich, and Duncan Cameron, they all took a trip out to camp hero in 1995 and claimed that they still observed the same mind control frequency image from the base despite its official closing in the mid-80s. This, along with the invisible boys in Preston Nichols front yard.

[Marcus Parks]

You can't even see him. That's the worst part. You never know when you're there. And all of a sudden you're jerking off and you look over there and a boy appears. And then all of a sudden, oh, I'm a problem. And he's laughing and laughing. He's like, oh, it's funny how you come. It's funny how you come. And I tell him it's not funny how I come. I'm an adult. I'm a man.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They don't come. Remember? They're Gooners.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, but not anymore. I'm retired. That's what I'm saying.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, my God.

[Ben Kissel]

All coming together. It always comes together at the end.

[Marcus Parks]

Can I actually play a bit of my research? The example of what it was like when they went back, please? So he won. He took one of what he said, one of the most famous psychics from Long island to the Montauk base, and this was her reaction that shows that in matter of fact, it was all real and it's continuing to happen.

[Ben Kissel]

You want to look at it? I feel like I smell urine and.

[Marcus Parks]

Defecation and I feel pain.

[Ben Kissel]

I feel like a sense of helplessness, like there's no return. It's very emotional for me because I feel that those that have given their lives, this is the program.

[Marcus Parks]

Why, you know, why did they give their life? What was the reason? Madness. What madness would they be caught up? What is this? People talk. Cut this rambling. This lady looks like my fucking aunt.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, she does.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Also, she might be smelling and feeling all that because people, most people might be living there.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's very possible.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, it's really good squatting location.

[Marcus Parks]

Awesome squat.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, yeah, perfect squat. Of course you smell dirty because it.

[Marcus Parks]

Was this whole thing I smell. You already smell defecation. Defecation. Sadness. You also miss a lot of that. You miss out. Oh, that's Horrible. Oh, horrible in here. Horrible.

[Ben Kissel]

Ultimately, I personally think that the Montauk Project conspiracy exists and persists for the same reason that similar conspiracies like QAnon gained so much traction. And it all comes down to participation. See, the Montauk Project narrative allowed Preston Nichols and Duncan Cameron and Al Bielik to be heroes, main characters in a science fiction epic that was able to fuse itself into real world events quite easily due to its open ended nature. Once Preston and Duncan started telling their story in public, though, saying that their minds had been wiped and that they'd recovered their memory memories, they opened the door for anyone to claim that they were also a part of the Montauk Project. And more often than not, the people claiming participation weren't exactly living exciting lives. These people all began feeding each other stories and building the narrative out into every corner they could find if they felt it could explain something that didn't make sense or wasn't fair. And as such, whether it was intentional or not, I think that the Montauk Project served as the blueprint print for the participational collage conspiracies of the Internet age. The Montauk Project is the original collage conspiracy. See, when it comes to conspiracies like this, while the creators certainly get the ball rolling, it's the public that picks these conspiracies up and turns them into a far larger narrative. Ultimately, though, while these things start off as nothing more than fantasies, they eventually get built into something entirely different. And sometimes those conspiracies with no grounding in the truth can have dire consequences in the real world due to just how incredibly connected our world is. These days, though, there's nary a corner on Earth that doesn't have to deal with the consequences of these modern conspiracies. And I think a lot of this can be traced back to 2 idiots in long island who just wanted their lives to be a lot more exciting than they really were.

[Marcus Parks]

I think that that's also a common problem across the board. Yeah, people want it. People want to be a part of these giant plot lines.

[Ben Kissel]

That's what I'm saying is the Montag Project is like. It's the. It is the blueprint for the world that we're living in now.

[Marcus Parks]

And it feels good. It feels good to be included. It feels good to have purpose and stuff like this. This was in the. It was also different too, because back then, information did travel more slowly. Yeah, you had to go actively, slow search this out. This was not. This would not fall on your Lap. If you wanted this dumb. Like, we love. If you believed in this stuff, you would have had to go. Like, the original tape I saw was in a guy's house with them talking like, this is before cons and before all the stuff.

[Ben Kissel]

Like, well, there were cons back then. Because you maybe you can maybe find something like this at a gun show.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. But it would take you going to a place.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Doing. Searching it out. Now it's just there. So at this. Mostly, I think Montauk originally really worked on the fact that they couldn't immediately check. You're dealing with people and you're saying a bunch of fake stuff necessarily, or stuff that they can't check on in the moment, and then you can blow right past it.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, it's like I was sitting in the. In the first episode about all of his claims about being in the music business. It's like in 1992, it's like, I can't see. I can't ease. I couldn't. In 1992. You know how long it would take me to see who played the drums on Big Girls Don't Cry. Like, if I ever find.

[Marcus Parks]

Like a week.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Call a library. You have to do all this stuff. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

And here it's tech. Tick, tick, tick, tick. I'm done.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, and there as well, Rob just put up a picture. It shows that his picture from his social media avatar has the control tower of the Montauk project in its background.

[Ben Kissel]

It's the irrelevant. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Finally. You know, and your father told us some good stories. Your father visited the studio today, and he told us about the missiles going out to Long Island. Oh, yeah. He's exactly as I wanted him to be. Exactly as I. As they needed him to be.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now I reconnected with my Montauk person, my connection over there, and he. He said that he never heard of boys going missing before during the 60s and 70s. But there is, in fact, a giant bunker out there. There is, because his father was stationed there when he was older.

[Marcus Parks]

There's a. There is a giant army base there. There's an army base there. We just don't. We don't maybe don't know what it did.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, the bunk, he said. He said that the bunker was there kind of as like a nuclear fallout shelter.

[Marcus Parks]

And we didn't even get into all the. We didn't even get into all the animal biohacking that came from because, again, that's what Preston Nichols was. The one thing that he said he.

[Ben Kissel]

Was forbidden to talk about was the Animal biohacking, yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Time travel, no.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But changing animals to look like different animals.

[Marcus Parks]

The biological edge of the experimentation was super secret.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So it was like Dr. Morosia.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cool.

[Ben Kissel]

And that some people, of course, connect that to the Montauk monster, the thing that washed up on shore in what, like 2012 or something like that.

[Marcus Parks]

It was awesome.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, that was the. Yeah, it was really fun.

[Marcus Parks]

Is a raccoon.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But guys, I think that this is still my favorite conspiracy theory because it was back when this was fun.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Fun as hell. And I wish boys could time travel.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, I wish boys could time travel too. And I was. And this is actually. This was pretty incredible. Like, only like a Scotia of anti Semitism and racism in this one.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. It's. They just. It just proves that you. They just can't help had. No matter. Like, he didn't need to bring it in. He didn't need to tell us that the Dracon were actually Jewish people.

[Marcus Parks]

Jewish people. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

And that Asian people are insects. He didn't need to say any of that. It wasn't important to the narrative at all.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It would have been thicker if the Pope of Judaism, Steven Spielberg, didn't live out there.

[Marcus Parks]

Maybe would be. But they're all on the same team on Montauk. That's how it is. Patreon.com lastpod Guest on the left. Watch us by giving us money and also go to at LP on the left for all of our social medias.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. And don't forget to come out and watch the stream Every Tuesday at 6pm PST 9pm EST. Last stream on the left. You can watch it live on Patreon or after the fact on YouTube. But I would recommend watching it live on Patreon because we play a lot of on the live stream that we cannot put on YouTube. So if you want to watch it uneducated, edited and live, come check it out.

[Marcus Parks]

Come and check it out. And go to lastpodcast on the left.com to buy tickets to see us live. Our show is better than ever and we will be tonight. Tonight we will be in Detroit at the Masonic Temple having a blast.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's just the Masonic. Not the Masonic Tempo.

[Marcus Parks]

I still love it. I love that menu.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean, I can't wait to see it. I'm very excited to be in Detroit. Yeah, it's gonna be very cool. And then we're gonna be in Toronto right after that. But it's sold out.

[Marcus Parks]

It is, it is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But right after that, I'm going down to Florida for the second half of the invasive species tour.

[Marcus Parks]

And so am I.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. May six, I'll be in Naples. I'm trying to talk Henry into going to that show, but it doesn't seem like it's likely.

[Marcus Parks]

We'll see what happens.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And then Fort Lauderdale on May 7th, side stories. And then Orlando on May 8th. And then I'm in Key west all weekend from May 9th through the 11th. So come check that out. And of course in June, we're going to Atlanta and just go to last podcast on the left.com to see all the shows we're doing all year. We got a full schedule so go and check us out. We are hitting the road this year.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. Come back to the Pacific Northwest. We're going to Portland. We're going to Salt Lake City. Going all kinds of places.

[Marcus Parks]

Contact in the desert. We're going to be at [e-mail] laska we're going to be doing a side stories cruise. Come check it out. It's going to be wild.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I've learned nothing and everything. I'm just glad I'm a Woodhaven given boy that never made it out to the island. Hail Satan.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh hell, gel Preston Nichols. He created a nice story.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, it's.

[Ben Kissel]

Except for the Jewish thing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I mean everyone slips up a little bit.

[Marcus Parks]

Now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking.

[Ben Kissel]

Advantage of their national red tag sales.

[Marcus Parks]

Event going on right now through April 20th.

[Ben Kissel]

Stop by any of their participating communities and find select red tag homes at Incredible Pricing.

[Marcus Parks]

So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss the red tag sales event going on right now. Discover the Dr. Horton [e-mail] that's Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and Equal Housing Opportunity Builder.

[D]

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