Episode 633: Contact in the Desert 2025: Communion - An Interview with Whitley Strieber

Summary

Last Podcast On The Left

Episode 633: Contact in the Desert 2025: Communion – An Interview with Whitley Strieber

Date: September 5, 2025
Guests: Whitley Strieber
Hosts: Marcus Parks, Henry Zebrowski, Ed Larson
Event: Recorded live at Contact in the Desert, Coachella Valley

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Overview

In this special live episode of Last Podcast on the Left, the hosts sit down with legendary author and “experiencer” Whitley Strieber at the UFO-centric Contact in the Desert convention. The conversation delves into Strieber's evolving perspective on the UFO phenomenon since publishing Communion, his views on the nature and motives of “the visitors,” and the cultural fallout of alien abduction narratives. The episode is both thoughtful and irreverent, with the hosts balancing deep questions, humorous hot sauce challenges, and honest moments about belief, skepticism, and the personal costs of being the world’s most famous alien abductee.

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Episode Structure

• [00:00–13:29] Banter, convention backstory, intro to Whitley Strieber
• [13:30–79:52] Live interview with Whitley Strieber at Contact in the Desert (main content)
• [79:52–end] Post-interview reactions and closing comments

This summary focuses solely on the main interview and core discussion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Social Cost of Being an “Experiencer”

[15:00–16:49]

• Strieber recounts the shock and backlash after publishing Communion, becoming the “butt of rectal probe jokes,” and the toll of turning a traumatic experience into a cultural punchline.

"It was a deep shock to people that suddenly somebody would be going out and saying that something that everyone, including me, did not think could happen was actually happening and was real… I actually was raped. If you can imagine anyone here having an experience like that and then having it turn into an international joke, that was… wild." – Whitley Strieber [15:09]

2. The Evolution of Contact

[15:00–18:25; 24:18–25:29]

• Early contact with “the visitors” was intensely physical and ambiguous.
• Strieber reflects on his journey from reluctant whistleblower to recognizing the profound, world-changing implications of open contact:

“They are here...this is gradually, over time, becoming a bigger and bigger part of our world until finally it is…going to change mankind more profoundly than anything else ever has.” – Whitley Strieber [16:05]

3. Sincerity, Skepticism, and the Importance of “Not Knowing”

[10:11–11:31]

• The hosts praise Strieber for refusing simplistic answers, noting that many in ufology are afraid to say “I don’t know”:

“What I appreciate most about Whitley Strieber, as opposed to so many other people at Contact in the Desert, is that he is not afraid to say, ‘I don’t know.’” – Ed Larson [10:11]

4. Visitors’ Motives and the “Communion” Experience

[27:46–29:37]

• Strieber proposes the visitors desire “novelty” and communion with humans because their own experience is ancient, perfected, and unchanging.

“When they're really in close contact with us…they experience life as we do. And for all of us, everything…is always new. We don’t see ahead. And they want that back…I’ve thought maybe we’re even a kind of addiction to them.” – Whitley Strieber [28:10]

5. The Dangers and Ambiguity of Alien Contact

[33:42–35:53]

• Strieber admits to both positive and terrifying encounters, referencing cattle and rumored human mutilations:

“There have been similar human mutilations, and I’m pretty sure they happened.” – Whitley Strieber [34:06]

• Suggests Grays have copper-based biology requiring nutrition from mammals, which could explain cattle mutilations [34:22]

6. The Grays: Biological and Psychological Differences

[39:35–40:19, 49:33–51:36]

• Physical frailty, but advanced “non-physical” existential abilities; can move in and out of bodies.
• Powerful psychological “weapons”: can induce fear or make the aggressive compliant by simulating “angelic possession.”

“Another type of weapon…I know they possess will turn an aggressive person into a compliant person by making them think that, like, they've been possessed by an angel… But it's a very powerful weapon.” – Whitley Strieber [41:29]

7. Skepticism and Government Secrecy

[58:32–59:58]

• Strieber urges people to get comfortable with the phenomenon and rely less on waiting for “official” disclosure:

“We just have to do this. And they're very sensitive. They will know when there's enough of a cadre of people who are not going to be overwhelmed by this when they show up, and that's when they will be comfortable in coming. I don't think it has a whole lot to do with disclosure.” – Whitley Strieber [59:58]

8. Alien and Human Minds: The Value of Creativity

[49:08–51:36]

• Grays lack individual expression and creativity—no art, no color vision, just “perfected” but static culture.
• Humans' emotional and creative diversity makes Earth and humanity exceptionally valuable.

“This room is far more creative than the Grays in their entirety, I believe... We have Bach, Beethoven, unbelievable array of creativity.” – Whitley Strieber [49:08]

9. Practical Advice for Humanity

[58:32–59:58]

• Embrace the idea of contact without shock; focus on personal and communal readiness, not government-led disclosure.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the trauma of disclosure:
  “[On being the subject of ridicule]…I became the butt of rectal probe jokes big time, no pun intended…if you can imagine anyone here having an experience like that and then having it turn into an international joke…that was wild.” – Whitley Strieber [15:09]

• On the purpose of contact:
  “It’s about more than contact. It’s about the life experience I’m having now, which is getting to a point where they can share my life in a way.” – Whitley Strieber [28:06]

• On novelty as value:
  “I’ve thought maybe we’re even a kind of addiction to them. Because when they're close to us…they experience the new all over again.” – Whitley Strieber [29:11]

• On the “weapon” of compassion:
  “Another type of weapon…will turn an aggressive person into a compliant person by making them think…they've been possessed by an angel…” – Whitley Strieber [41:27]

• On government secrecy & experiencers:
  “The truth is the people on the inside don’t know as much about this as we do…the experiencer community is much more informed about this than the insiders.” – Whitley Strieber [60:10]

• On discomfort with requests for abduction:
  “If you get abducted, don't expect to sit down for a while after that.” – Whitley Strieber [46:25]

• On creativity & identity:
  “This room is far more creative than the Grays in their entirety, I believe. Just one room.” – Whitley Strieber [49:09]

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Hot Sauce Segment: “Spicy Times”

[62:44–78:21]
The hosts challenge Whitley to a wing-eating “Spicy Times” bit (Hot Ones-style):

• Whitley’s reactions: unfazed by most sauces, jokes about being more “tripped out” than any drug user.
• Funny moment:

“Why would this hot sauce contain a prayer for the dead?” – Whitley Strieber [64:05]

• Personal story: Whitley tells of strong secondhand weed experience in the '70s, leading to questions about drugs and contact (“I'm trippier than anyone who's tripping because I get this in the physical world all the time.”) [45:36]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Intro, Contact in the Desert background: [01:33–13:17]
• Interview Start: [13:30]
• Strieber on ridicule/public cost: [15:00–16:49]
• Evolution of understanding & Communion: [15:00–18:25], [28:00–29:37]
• On skepticism, not-knowing: [10:11–11:31]
• On alien motives, creativity, and art: [27:46–29:37], [49:08–51:36]
• Weapons, fear induction: [41:23–42:44]
• On intent and readiness for contact: [58:32–61:49]
• Spicy Times Hot Sauce Challenge: [62:44–78:21]
• Experience specifics and the Reddit biology document: [71:23–74:36]
• Audience Q&A, Whitley’s email address: [77:19–77:23]
• Outro, hosts reflect on Whitley: [79:52–end]

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Tone & Atmosphere

• Playful, irreverent, yet sincere investigation.
• Whitley remains candid and gracious, engaging authentically with both serious and silly questions.
• The hosts maintain their signature blend of genuine curiosity, skepticism, and rowdy comedy.

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Final Reflections

• The episode is a unique blend of high weirdness, credible personal testimony, and comedic meta-commentary on the entire UFO/abduction culture.
• Strieber is lauded for his honesty and openness, both in facing ridicule and in answering “I don’t know” where applicable.
• The hosts (and audience) are left both entertained and genuinely reflective about the ongoing mystery of contact, the human psyche, and the weirdness at the edges of knowledge.

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Memorable Closing Quote:
“You do something like this for years and you see all these people trying to understand and trying to find their way with it. And you're doing the same and you basically. You fall in love. And that's why I keep doing it.”
– Whitley Strieber [79:17]

Transcript

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[Whitley Strieber]

There's no place to escape to. This is the last on the left.

[Marcus Parks]

That's when the cannibalism started.

[Whitley Strieber]

What was that?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm an alien.

[Marcus Parks]

Perfect.

[Whitley Strieber]

Absolutely perfect.

[Ed Larson]

Welcome to last podcast on the left. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Marcus Sparks. I am here with the Foley master, Henry Zabrowski.

[Marcus Parks]

I mastered. Guys. Today's a special episode. We are talking to a very thin man.

[Ed Larson]

Very. A thin man.

[Marcus Parks]

A very thin man.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I guess he was kind of thin. He's not very thin. Ghostly, I could say. I say ghostly, sure.

[Marcus Parks]

But you know, it's. How so? Like, it's not like he's thin. It's like he's thin for the world.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He looks like a man who's been abducted by aliens.

[Ed Larson]

Absolutely. And we have the very astute Ed Larson.

[Marcus Parks]

Hello.

[Henry Zebrowski]

How you doing?

[Ed Larson]

And today on the show, we have an interview with, I would say one of the biggest names in ology history. Yes, like one of the. By far the most famous alien abductee to ever exist.

[Marcus Parks]

Besides Betty and Barney Hill.

[Ed Larson]

Besides Betty and Barney Hill too.

[Marcus Parks]

And Travis Walton. But yeah, I put them on the Mount Rushmore people than being raped in space.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

Our interview today is with Whitley Streber. But before we get to the interview, we got to talk about contact in the desert where this interview was actually held.

[Marcus Parks]

We did this and what they called the fishbowl is there. Essentially, it's just like an outdoor cafe recording area. Last year was what we spoke with Dave Foley last year in the same place. And that was a very funny conversation because it's like obviously very famous. Funny man talking very seriously about aliens.

[Ed Larson]

Dave Foley from, you know, Kids in the Hall News Radio.

[Marcus Parks]

He was amazing. So this one, we were like, let's try something different. So we had this opportunity and partially, like, I know before all this, last year we went to Contact, but now that we know the people that run Contact much better, we.

[Ed Larson]

And Contact in the Desert, by the way, for those of you who don't know, is a massive alien, I would say paranormal. Yeah, not necessarily paranormal, but mostly like UFO focused convention held out in Coachella. Coachella Valley. Valley.

[Henry Zebrowski]

May every year go. If you like aliens even a little bit, this is the place for you to be.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, we had a ton of fans come out, a ton of people that were super cool out there. So thanks to everybody who said hello and came out to our shows at Contact in the Desert.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, we had a big comedy show which we're going to release on YouTube soon, too.

[Marcus Parks]

Exactly. We will. But that's also, I want to point out, we're trying to lower the median age at Contact.

[Ed Larson]

Please.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. So please come if you are. I'm just saying there's no.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I was 45 or younger.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. I would just literally, please, the love of God, if you're 45 or younger, please come to Contact in the Desert. We need you.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Also they need you.

[Marcus Parks]

Whitley needs you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

These guys are old. Well, they're only going to be talking for so many more years.

[Marcus Parks]

Exactly. And this was my concept, right. Is I wanted to do hot ones with Whitley Strieber. Yeah. So speaking of, they're very old. And so I was like, you know, we'll do all this, you know, maybe we'll do like. We pitched at Whitley's people. They were like, oh, my God, he couldn't think it funnier. Blah, blah, blah. We arrive that day, spread out like we're nervous.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. Yes. Oh, I was very nervous because I.

[Marcus Parks]

Did not know what to expect from Whitley. I know that the man is very sincere. He has been through quite a bit.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I don't know what I believe, but if anything is true, I believe him.

[Ed Larson]

Yes, I agree with that. And I truly believe that he believes leaves without a doubt. There's not an ounce. I do not detect an ounce of charlatan in this man.

[Marcus Parks]

No. And when we sat and we, like. So we arrived and we're like, okay, here's the. He comes in, you know, he's doing great. He's very friendly, congenial. And then we're like, okay, here's the hot sauces. We're gonna use and it was like, what do you mean? Hot sauces? Yes. And then we were like, oh, we were gonna do this whole funny hot sauce based bit. It's from a show called Hot Ones. And he's just like, is that about freshly made Frank Furton? And it was just like, no, no, no, it's actually about it. No, it's. It's a hot wing chicken challenge show.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And then we got worried that we were gonna kill him.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, then he's backed into the bit. Then he's like, I am fine with these hottest sauces. I will have some of these warm sauces. And we were like.

[Ed Larson]

He was game.

[Marcus Parks]

He was game. But then he was like. But then we're like, oh, no, though, because we can't put. We can't do.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You got a crazy one. You got like a magnum.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I got the bomb. Yeah, yeah, the famous one, the super hot one. And he was like. Because then he felt backed into the bit. And I want to say thank you so much, Whitley, for at least entertaining some of it.

[Ed Larson]

I would say he felt backed into the bit. I would say that he is a man who is very game and very friendly. And he's like, okay, if I said I would do this, I don't remember saying I would do this, but if I said that I would do this, I. I'm going to do this thing.

[Marcus Parks]

And he did a good job of being like, no, you, you bastards. I could definitely have seen a thing where he'd be like, you fools and jesters. Each one of you should be destroyed by the Galactic Empire.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I will say, last year he refused to talk to us.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Well, I think that, you know, Captain Ron, the guy who runs Contact in the desert? I think he vouched for it.

[Marcus Parks]

He did.

[Ed Larson]

Because we. I think last year was our sort of audition to see, like, all right, how can these guys handle it? Are they going to be, you know, are they going to piss everyone off here?

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Are they going to be a bunch of animals?

[Marcus Parks]

And we only pissed off the one man that apparently was also a problem to the bookers themselves. Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, we pissed off the right person to piss off.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

We pissed off the man who sang a song about how lasers destroyed the World Trade center. And then he got in trouble for setting his World Trade center effigy on fire on stage in a convention center.

[Marcus Parks]

I think you're forgetting what denomination of people whose lasers they belong to.

[Ed Larson]

Jewish.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Lazy.

[Ed Larson]

Yes, yes, I forgot. I forgot about that.

[Marcus Parks]

And then key moment.

[Ed Larson]

Yes. And then he got sick afterwards. And he blamed us for making fun of him and said that all of our negative vibes made his cancer come back.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And he kept crossing out Satan on our stickers.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Guess what? Yeah, we did get you sicker. We did it on purpose. But Whitley says a lot of stuff today. Yeah. So this is a long form interview and that's why like. Well, I just want to say this.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Up top and some chewing at the end.

[Marcus Parks]

There is some chewing at the end. That's for. That's a misophonia alert for you people. But the, it's. We don't do a lot of pushback on Whitley because we are legitimately in his space. We're at contact.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's not the last pod studio.

[Marcus Parks]

No, I. Right after we did this, this interview, someone, a well meaning, a well meaning fringe member of our audience came up to me and said man, I can't believe you let him off so easy on all that but stuff. And I honestly, I appreciate the energy I get. I sort of understand.

[Ed Larson]

I.

[Marcus Parks]

But the man obviously has been through quite a bit.

[Ed Larson]

He has.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. You know, and so that's why just know we're speaking with him and we're joking with him. But Whitley does have a very sincere view of what happened to him.

[Ed Larson]

Yes. And that's what I would say like while you're listening to this, like have, have an open mind because that's what we into. We went into this with. I went into this with an open mind.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm there to learn.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. I'm there to learn. I'm there to hear his perspective. And we are definitely in his space. We're in his house for sure.

[Marcus Parks]

But that's the reason why I didn't throw a, a little jar ky at him when he sat down on the dance.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Cuz we wanted to be respectful and, and the thing is about all of this alien stuff and, and all of this UFO stuff is that, you know, like, I am definitely like an agnostic, I guess, like as we all should be.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm still a professional agnostic.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. When it comes to the UFO stuff, there's some stuff like there's stuff that I've seen that is very compelling. There is stuff that makes me believe that there's definitely something happening out there. Whitley Strieber is one of the very few people in the UFO world that I will listen to when he speaks.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, especially as an experiencer.

[Ed Larson]

Yes. As an experiencer.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Because a lot of times you have guys that have conjecture, people that are. Because how many stripes have you follow Just have we, have you guys, have I forced you to Sort of.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I have grown through a lot of it and I like this man.

[Marcus Parks]

Right? Yeah. So it's like, so there's something there. The man's extremely, extremely warm. That's what I was really happy about. He was friendly to us, even though he knows that we're a bunch of shithead, like shitlords, essentially, but, but he was very, very nice to us in that way.

[Ed Larson]

What I appreciate most about Whitley Strieber, as opposed to so many other people at Contact in the Desert that he is not afraid to say, I don't know.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

It seems like every other panel that I went to at Contact in the desert, everyone was afraid to say, I don't know. Of course. Like, I actually went and saw Whitley on a, a panel that was about, I can't remember what, like, I couldn't even tell you. Like, it was about psychic something, but, like, about you contacting UFOs psychically and all of these people. Everyone else on stage was just kind of talking and you could see Whitley Streber just crossing his arms. Yeah, okay. Like, all right. But he was the only one who spoke that had anything I, I, that I, I, I believed what he had to say and, and I respected his opinions because he was like, look, we don't know what this is. We don't know what's going on here, but there is something and we need to try to figure it out. And everyone else, especially to his experience.

[Marcus Parks]

Especially to him experience.

[Ed Larson]

Yes. And everyone else is trying to shoehorn all this pseudoscience in their. And trying to shoehorn their own personal experiences and what that, you know. And they're also trying to promo their books and their documentaries all at the same time. Willie Strieber, class act. Absolutely. A class act.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. He didn't start screaming at him, at me when I asked him to make the noise of the alien. That was the thing that was the most frightening noise he ever heard.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No spoiler alert.

[Marcus Parks]

I know. He's like, was it like this, Was like this?

[Whitley Strieber]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Was it like this, man, the night.

[Henry Zebrowski]

After the interview, I saw him like, at the valet with like three chicks.

[Marcus Parks]

And he was just like, those wings.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Weren'T, you know, it was so much fun. I love that.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Also, just know at ufology conferences, they mop up.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

I mean, there's something about those ladies who sell those crystals.

[Marcus Parks]

Dude, they are some silverback cougars.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me about these, the silver. Why is it special?

[Marcus Parks]

I'll tell You. It happens to make old ladies wet.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Fill that pool up somehow.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. This is great.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

No, but it is. It is Contact in the Desert. I was surprised at how horny it was. Both years. You can feel the sexual energy in that room.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah. When I. Oh, man, Amber. That one night when she left us to go out alone, I was like. I was worried who she is going to come back with an alien goddamn husb.

[Ed Larson]

No, we just had to tell her. It's like, steer clear of the shamans.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, Anybody with the shaman whose real name is Greg. Don't talk to him.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Anyone who's staying in an rv.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, they have to be able to afford a hotel room.

[Ed Larson]

All right, well, let's get. Without further ado, let's get into this interview. Like, this was really fun. And thank you so much to Whitley for both humoring us during this interview and for humoring this introduction.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you, Whitley.

[Ed Larson]

Thank you, Whitley.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you, Mr. Streber. Please, I'm better than you.

[Whitley Strieber]

You are. You are from North Wales.

[Marcus Parks]

Hello.

[Ed Larson]

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. How are you today? Welcome to the last podcast on the left live at Contact in the Desert. My name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with Ed Larson.

[Whitley Strieber]

Hello.

[Ed Larson]

And Henry Zabrowski over there.

[Marcus Parks]

Guys, what a wonderful day to be a part of the last podcast family. It feels like this is a real full circle moment. This is somebody that we have. We have been so interested in your works for all of these years, and I'm so glad that you're here today to talk with us. And I'm sorry for what we're like and who we are. But I just want to say it's an honor to be here with the author and I would say just thinker across the board, Whitley Strieber.

[Whitley Strieber]

Well, thank you. Thank you.

[Marcus Parks]

So good to have you here.

[Whitley Strieber]

Thanks. Thanks.

[Marcus Parks]

And we'll get to this.

[Whitley Strieber]

Or not.

[Marcus Parks]

Or not.

[Ed Larson]

You're talking about the bevy of hot sauce in front of me.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm not gonna make you do.

[Whitley Strieber]

Well, this is not. This is not serious. This is no big deal.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, he loves. I saw him before he. Would the doctor actually drop this off for him? The debunk.

[Ed Larson]

So, Willie, my first question is that, you know, you've been in, you know, the UFO world for, you know, a while now. How has your understanding of the UFO phenomenon, like, evolved in the years since the publication of Communion?

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay, a simple, short question. I can answer it in a few words, actually. The evolution of it has been really fascinating and it's been accelerating over the past few years, it has been. At first, we were. Anne and I, and our family and friends were ended up in a deep contact, profound and very physical, often personal contact situation that was absolutely different from everything that was happening elsewhere in the world. And I was ending up going out on television talking about this, and people were not friendly about it. They didn't like to hear. Was a deep shock to people that suddenly somebody would be going out and saying that something that everyone, including me, did not think could happen was actually happening and was real. And the result of this was I became the butt of rectal probe jokes big time, no pun intended, you know, and it was hard to deal with because I actually was raped. And, you know, it's. If you can imagine anyone here having an experience like that and then having it turn into an international joke, that was. It was wild. I just thought, you know, I thought, can I take this? And Annie would say, you signed on for it. You went out in the woods all by yourself in the middle of the night because you're crazy.

[Marcus Parks]

Do you regret even coming out at all? Like, do you regret at all?

[Whitley Strieber]

I don't regret it anymore. I sure as hell did when I was being torpedoed all the time. Yes. I thought to myself, oh, God, I had such a cool novel in the works when this started. It was a novel about spies in Russia, and it would have been a big success. I never finished it because Communion interrupted it. And I figured, well, I'll write this book for. You know, it'll take me maybe a year to write it. It'll go out. It's an interesting, strange story, and people, you know, it'll be interesting, and then I'll move on. I've never finished the book about Russian spies to this day, because I've been doing this ever since. Because actually, what happened was, you know, they are here. And this is gradually, over time, becoming a bigger and bigger part of our world until finally it is in the end, over the years, it is going to change mankind more profoundly than anything else ever has. That's how big it actually is. And most of you, many of you, were in on it at the beginning. We were all at the beginning of it in terms of history, because a hundred years from now or a thousand years from now, this is going to be the time that is looked back on when mankind really started. And this is because we are starting to become a cosmic species, for better or for worse. And I'm still worried about those hot wings.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, I think that if the Grays experience the Bomb, they might wipe us out. And they might think that this is a weapon that destroys their very, very fibrous, very, very, you know, fragile insides.

[Whitley Strieber]

Look, I will be frank with you. I have succeeded in pissing off the Grays a number of times, okay? I talked about that in my lecture and showed a bit of what happens. I didn't tell a whole story. You don't want to do this. But, you know, my wife said to me years ago, she said, you really are possibly the most annoying person I've ever met.

[Marcus Parks]

That's why she married me.

[Whitley Strieber]

It's called love. I said, well, what does that mean? She says, whitley, I signed on for an interesting life, and I've got that. So that's where we are. But you're still extremely annoying. I'll give you an example of that. I pulled a fast one on Ann. She was very smart, and she was not easily fooled. We went walking one afternoon in July, and we lived in Brooklyn Heights, right overlooking the harbor, New York Harbor. And there was this fireworks show going on. And so we. She said, what is this? She'd forgotten it was the Fourth of July. So I said, oh, it's Wisconsin Cheese Week. And she says. She bought into it. She says, wisconsin Cheese Week. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Why would they spend all of that money? And you can't even tell it's anything to do with Wisconsin cheese? And so, you know, we went on to other things, and I forgot about it about a week later. We were a friend's house. He was a writer also, and wrote big, thick books. Will become important in a moment. And she says, and they were from Wisconsin, the writers. And so she's in the middle of dinner, she pipes up with, did you see that fireworks display last week? You know what that was for Wisconsin Cheese Week. And their cheese is horrible. And they didn't even say anything about it. They just wasted all their money. And they look at her, and one of them, it was Peter Straub, actually, the writer. He's passed on, sadly enough, but he says, anne, I think I saw the Fourth of July fireworks. A second later. I look over at her, she's looking at me. And so, as I said, Peter wrote very thick books. She walks out of the dining room and walks back into the dining room with one of his books, doesn't say a word. Wham. She hits me over the head with the book and then goes and puts it back. And the conversation continues as if it never happened. I've often wondered whether the Straubs. Remember that or what it meant to them or anything, but that was the only time I ever pulled the wool successfully over Anne's eyes. And she never let me forget it.

[Marcus Parks]

Believe me, I haven't given a serious answer to my wife in our marriage.

[Whitley Strieber]

And you're still married. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

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[Whitley Strieber]

Today in McDonald News. Mount McDonaldland is experiencing thick volcanic shaped activity.

[Ed Larson]

So try the new Mount McDonaldland shake.

[Whitley Strieber]

When you order the McDonaldland meal with your very own character souvenir kit. A McDonald's and McDonaldland. Get the McDonaldland meal and McDonaldland.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now, you've had how many points of contact?

[Whitley Strieber]

Oh, I don't. I can't count them. You know, the interesting thing is people ask me why you? And I think to myself, there's a whole lot of reasons for that. First, I was stupid enough to go out there and do this, not knowing what would happen. But also, I was a horror novelist, not like Carl Sagan, so people could pick and choose what they wanted to believe of me. They didn't have to believe me. That's very important to the visitors. They do not want to engage in cultural colonization, which means as soon as we realize they're real, we completely turn toward them and forget our own development. We're only interested in their stuff now. And that is actually not going to happen. Because what's going to happen is now, if they came today or tomorrow, we're not going to. A lot of us will completely turn toward them, but a core of us are going to see this in the context of our own lives and our own work in the sciences and so forth. And our culture is not going to end.

[Marcus Parks]

Can I ask, though, do you not think that we won't be so impressed by the shiny new world that the aliens bring? That it seems that humans so far really love all the, like, dings and dangles and stuff on top of culture.

[Ed Larson]

We're creatures of novelty above all.

[Marcus Parks]

And that we might become obsessed with it no matter what. They might not even be able to control that about us. That we would end up, like, worshiping them anyway and electing one to be president and putting them on masked singer and all that shit.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, not born in America. They can't be president.

[Marcus Parks]

You're right.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff going around. I don't think anyone from another planet would want to be president. I don't think anyone from this planet would. I've never. No, no, I don't think so. People who want to be president are always suckers because they get in office, everyone loves them for two weeks, and then they're hated and go crazy for the next few years and then they die.

[Marcus Parks]

I just want the armies.

[Whitley Strieber]

The what?

[Marcus Parks]

I want the armies. Someone control the bombs. Just because I think I could fix some stuff.

[Whitley Strieber]

Oh, God. You know, I think if the one thing that could bring the visitors out would be if we started to go to a nuclear war, they might stop that. I'm not sure, and I don't want to test it. But I think that's possible because it's clear. They have two messages, at least that I've heard and that other close encounter witnesses have heard, which are, be careful of nuclear weapons and be careful of your planet's environment. There are too many of you here, and the planet is getting unstable. And those are all. Those are two core human survival issues. Therefore, they want us to survive, or they wouldn't be telling us. They were telling us, oh, nuclear war, doesn't matter. Go ahead and burn out the planet. Do anything you want to, you're fine. And actually be waiting for us to go extinct. But they clearly are not doing that. They're not in that space. They want us to survive.

[Ed Larson]

Well, during all of the communications that you had and the contacts that you had, have you ever come across why? Like, why? Why do they want us to survive? Why do they care?

[Whitley Strieber]

Well, you know, I've been really concentrating on that, especially in the last book, in the Fourth Mind, I think, and this is just me, that they see the world from outside of the stream of time. And therefore I think it's really difficult for them to experience anything new. My wife, who was a master of this from the beginning, I often wonder. She was just like me, an ordinary kid from an ordinary American town. But she suddenly became a lot more. When the Communion experience came along, and she called the book Communion, she titled it, because she said that's what it's about. And it's about more than contact. It's about the life experience I'm having now, which is getting to a point where they can share my life in a way. And I think it's because when they're really in close contact with us, in communion with us, they experience life as we do. And for all of us, everything, every instant is always new. We don't see ahead. And they want that back. I think that they got so knowledgeable, they must be very old, so knowledgeable that they cease to be able to be surprised by anything. And we're like a resource. I've thought maybe we're even a kind of addiction to them. Because when they're close to us and in communion with one of us, they're experiencing the new all over again.

[Marcus Parks]

Imagine if they met Joe Exotic.

[Whitley Strieber]

What?

[Marcus Parks]

Like Joe Exotic?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Tiger King.

[Marcus Parks]

Like a truly tiger King. Did you see Tiger King?

[Whitley Strieber]

Unfortunately, no. I'm afraid I don't watch much tv.

[Marcus Parks]

He's most novel.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay, I'm lost in this maze now. I have no idea who.

[Marcus Parks]

Tiger trainer criminal that deported his own jail husband so that he can get a pardon from Trump so that he could go down and live with his husband in Mexico that he ratted out to ICE.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Listen, Henry, Mr. Streamer has dealt with enough in his life.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Let me.

[Whitley Strieber]

I deal with very strange beings from other worlds, not very strange beings from this one. And that is all I have to say about this.

[Ed Larson]

It's interesting the way that, like, you talk about how extraterrestrials may perceive time. It sounds sort of like how Kurt Vonnegut talked about the Trothmagorians in Slaughterhouse Five, how, you know, humankind sees time as if we're on a train with a box over our head and a long pipe in front of us.

[Whitley Strieber]

And that.

[Ed Larson]

That's all we see. We can't break free.

[Whitley Strieber]

But. And they. They see it differently. And they want the experience. I think they're here because they want the experience of the new also. They are. You know, you hear the military people saying it's a hive mind, or I guess a communal mind, but it's much more than that. Getting close to them, you get this impression that they are all one in a sense, but that this immensely complex, vast, incredibly subtle mind is expressed in different ways through every one of them. But they're all linked. This means that they're not necessarily all that creative. It means that you get the impression when you're around their stuff that it's old but beautiful, perfect, but old. And it's because they don't innovate either. And it's because it's only one mind. And another reason they're probably here is that this place is filled with more minds in this room than they have in their entire world in their whole history. And these are big minds. Don't make no mistake. You've got a trillion synapses in your head, and in fact, just in the past few seconds, 50 or 60,000 of them have died forever. And you don't care because you've got so many. And they want relationship with that, but not with all of us so much, but with each of us. They want a relationship, a deep, personal relationship with as many of us as can get in sync with them. And I think that's also a little dangerous. And I think there might be a little dangerous. I think we need to be very aware of the fact that we're passing through here, unknown territory and getting deeper and deeper into it. And we don't know quite what is there, but there's something there. And if it begins to seem dangerous, we have to be aware of that, and we have to compensate for that if we must. So let's not go dancing down that path saying, it's Jesus or it's God's or anything like that. Let's go down that path saying, we're here and they are here, and that's something that needs to meet. We don't belong to them in any way. They're not our gods. They're not our demons. They're not our angels. They're somebody else in many ways, just like us.

[Henry Zebrowski]

How about friends?

[Ed Larson]

Are they our friends?

[Whitley Strieber]

Well, that's something we gotta figure out, because I don't know the answer to that question. I've had great experiences with them, but I've also had really rough experiences with them. And I know things. You know, there's a constant undertone of stories of. I know. I understand the cattle mutilations now. I understand why that happens. But there have been similar human mutilations, and I'm pretty sure they happened.

[Marcus Parks]

Why?

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay, the cattle, the visitors, have copper in their bones. And I'll get into this in my lectures over the course of this thing, but this is a podcast, so I'll try to talk about a little bit now.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. They have taste.

[Whitley Strieber]

They have copper in their bones where we have marrow. And there are reasons for this that have to do with the way their devices work. I think that's my best reasoning for this. They're not. The ones I'm talking about are not natural beings. They're partly biological and partly mechanical. Their bodies require a lot of copper for nutrition. They do not have teeth. They do not have. They have much simpler element digestive system. And they have to drink something, but that something has to have a lot of copper in it. Now, what animals on Earth have a lot of copper in their blood? Cattle and human beings, then. This explains, I think, the cattle mutilations. I think that's. That's them getting food. And I think that there have been human mutilations, possibly because the ones that did that didn't realize what we were. Because this is a huge universe and God knows, people might be coming here all the time for the first time and not knowing what we are, I hope. Because if there's some of them who have a taste for us like that, we're in trouble.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah, yeah. If a chicken saw me, especially with the wings, if a chicken could know.

[Whitley Strieber]

Me, you're talking about wings again?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, now.

[Whitley Strieber]

Now I'm scared all over again. I'm terrified. I can't stand the least taste of hot sauce. But thank God we're not going to do anything like that.

[Marcus Parks]

Nothing like that at all. Now, my question is, what can I. What are they? What, in your opinion? The visitors, could they possibly be us?

[Whitley Strieber]

Could they be us from the future? Well, if they are us from the future, we really got screwed up.

[Marcus Parks]

How do they find their way out here? Like, what's the point of coming here?

[Whitley Strieber]

I think. I believe we're quite rare. I believe the planet is quite rare. I believe the planet is incredibly rich with life. More so than probably many. Many. Maybe it's the richest planet they've ever found, and it's filled with us. And they got to make that work somehow, because if that's true, they're not leaving. They're definitely not leaving. And this is my sense of it, that they consider this very valuable, and they're very angry about the way we live, that we eat the planet with, like, caterpillars. And maybe they're here. Maybe they're here to try to preserve the planet more than preserve us. I don't know.

[Ed Larson]

Listening to your most recent episode of your podcast, you mentioned Greys, and you mentioned communications with tall whites and Nordics. So when you say they and them, how many theys and thems are there?

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah, I'm generally talking about the Greys, because that's who I know.

[Ed Larson]

Okay?

[Whitley Strieber]

I know there are other. Lots of other species talked about. And I'm not saying they're not here. I mean, we've got 21 sextillion planets in this universe, so it would not be improbable, if it's easier than we think to get around in it, that there might be quite a few different forms here, including forms we don't even realize are living. I mean, God knows what could be out there. The ones I spend my. I have interaction and experience with mostly other Grays. So that's who I talk about when I say them.

[Marcus Parks]

Do the Nordics abduct people?

[Whitley Strieber]

I don't know. I've had one experience with the Nordics, and that was with a Nordic, a man who was. Clearly, he was made for various reasons. It was very clear that he was really from another world. And he proceeded to tell me that the Grays were extremely dangerous and that if we had a war with them, they would never let us win and they would never let us stop fighting. And every time I hear some of the people from the inside coming, talking about shooting at them, I think to myself, I hope they don't piss them off too much, because I don't want to end up in a war that we can never win and that we can never stop fighting.

[Henry Zebrowski]

America loves that, though.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's our favorite kind. We love that style of war. We love it when it never ends and we can make a lot of money on it.

[Whitley Strieber]

Well, yeah, except when you're in front of the guns instead of behind them. And I think from my life experience with the Grays, having a fight with them would be fantastically unpleasant.

[Marcus Parks]

Do you think that, like, I've always been. Because also describing the Grays, do you think that, like, if you had went ham in that experience, like, you could have, like, tore them to pieces? Like, you think that you literally could have fought them, like, if you had went.

[Whitley Strieber]

Physically, they're fragile. Yeah. But remember, they're not welded to their bodies like we are. We're welded to our bodies. I'm in here and I'm not getting out. Bob and Rowe learned how to get out of his body. And I. I took his course and did it a couple times. But I could not go into my bedroom tonight and go into a. Into a mind asleep body, awake state and get out of my body. The Grays can come and go as they wish, so the bodies don't mean the same thing to them that they mean to us. If you hurt them, one of their bodies, they get really pissed off, but they don't. They're not. They're just. They're going to grow another one.

[Marcus Parks]

But do you ever see one with what you'd call a weapon?

[Whitley Strieber]

Not personally, no. And I don't know anyone who has. I've seen things done by them that. That might as well be done by weapons. Like, they're very psychotronic in the sense that Ann and I once had an experience where one of them projected like a fear ray at us. And, you know, we don't do that. I can't. We don't have a gun that we can pull out and shoot and pull the trigger and send fear to you. But they did do that. And it was scary, frankly, because you could feel this fear came into me and I. No idea. We were out walking when it happened, and Ann said, I think we better go another way. It was about two. We used to. When we lived in Texas, we used to walk at like 2 o' clock in the morning, because you couldn't in the summer. You couldn't walk there during day. It's too hot. And she said, I think we should go another way. And she was right. That's a weapon. Another type of weapon that I know they possess will turn an aggressive person into a compliant person by making them think that, like, they've been possessed by an angel. In other words, the person might be very aggressive. And suddenly they feel something angelic come into their body and they think, oh, this is wrong. I'm making a mistake. I need to be at peace here. And from then on, that person is no longer an aggressor. It's a powerful weapon. And the people who have been. I know of, who have been struck by this weapon, don't think of it as a weapon, because that's not how it feels. But it's a very powerful weapon. And it's a very compassionate weapon in a way, too, because it made that person's life better and also caused them to not be a danger to the craze. Now, that's all fine as long as the craze aren't a danger to us. If it they are, then that is one hell of a dangerous weapon. And I don't really know the answer to the question as to whether they're dangerous to us or not.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Is that weapon weed?

[Whitley Strieber]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Man, that would be awesome.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's what you just.

[Whitley Strieber]

No, it's not. I don't think it's weed. I don't think it's weed. But I've often wondered about them and drugs and. Because.

[Marcus Parks]

Have you ever done psychedelics?

[Whitley Strieber]

I've never done any kind of drugs. I will tell you my one story of weed. This was back in the 70s when it was good. Well, I was at a party and it was in New York.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Leaves are brown, Keep going.

[Whitley Strieber]

Anyway. And, you know, in those days, it was not. It was very. People were pretty private about it. So it was in. Some friends were all in a room and I was wanting to talk to them. And I walked into the room and there was a lot of. They were smoking weed. It was very smoky. And I was in there for maybe five minutes and chatted briefly with a couple of them and then realized, smoke is too intense on getting out of here. I was high for a week. And what happened was a few minutes after that, Ann said, how did you get high? I said, I'm not put. I don't know what you mean. And then she realized what had happened. She said, we're going home. And so I was like a slow propeller turning around. I was really not in this world. And then the Next day was Sunday. Monday. I went to work and I kept seeing myself passing in the street when I was walking to the office. And then when I was in my office, I heard myself talking to me and stuff. It was really bizarre. So I went home. I stayed home for a couple days. I felt better. I went back to work. Then the next week, we went to another party. She said, stay away from any marijuana. And I'm at the party. I'm effusively complimenting the hostess on the goldfish in her lampstands. And Ann says, we're going home. You're still high. And you know if you're high from secondhand smoke inhaled for a few minutes, you don't want to do grass.

[Marcus Parks]

I also feel like if you just jump right into dmt, I actually wonder if it. But I don't know if it'll do anything. I honestly do. I had a psychedelic experience in which I spoke to a corporeal thing. Like a thing, like a thought. Felt like something outside of me. It felt like I was talking to something that was talking back to me independently of me. And I actually wonder if it is connected to something like these experiences or if it would actually screw up that kind of experience.

[Whitley Strieber]

I don't know, and I don't want to find out. Because why in the world would I need psychedelics? I mean, I don't see why. And I think they might screw up my experience. I'm trippier than anyone who's tripping because I get this in the physical world all the time.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm jealous.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That actually is an interesting thing that I would love to ask you about. When you hear people say they want contact or they're excited or they wish that would ever happen to them, how does that make you feel?

[Marcus Parks]

Because I'm guilty of this. But I have read all the material and my wife gets really upset when I ironically try to even say I want to get abducted. Because she's like, so you'll leave me? You'll leave this earth?

[Whitley Strieber]

Well, look, if you get abducted, don't expect to sit down for a while after that. Oh, man.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All these wings. Don't expect to sit down for a while.

[Marcus Parks]

Listen, hey, I'm from Hollywood. I can take it.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay? The most recent, I know a person who had a very powerful physical experience about a month ago in actually in la. And it was not harsh, it was scary. But poor woman, she was terrified because there was a gray looking at her in her bedroom and she was wide awake and she thought to herself, oh, my God, I wish the sun would come up. Whereupon this huge light filled the entire house. She lives up in the Hollywood Hills with light and, like, it was the sun. But she said, I knew it couldn't be the sun because it was the middle of the night. And I said, but were you still scared? She said, no, that's the funny thing. I didn't feel scared anymore. But then the next thing she knew, she was grabbed by the wrist and dragged up out through the ceiling and roof of her house and had two hours of missing time. But she's not unhappy with it. She felt like, you know, it was a very interesting experience, and she felt in some ways enriched by it. But it's not like it used to be where, you know, you'd get beat up and, you know, it would. You know, they'd steal sperm and eggs from people and stuff. And it's not like that. It seems much more of an attempt to kind of come into sync with us in the physical world. And I don't think they really have the same relationship to the physical reality that we do. They have these bodies, but I'm not sure that they experience this like we experience it, I think. And they're trying to figure out what points of correspondence there are between us so that they can figure out ways of relating to us. So I think the quality of the physical experience has changed a lot over the years. And I also don't think that they're doing violent things to people anymore. I think they're figuring out more about how we think about ourselves, for example.

[Marcus Parks]

So, like, they're realizing they're scaring the out of us and they're hurting us.

[Whitley Strieber]

They're basically realizing that they have a major PR problem here.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They probably got their research done. Like, they. Like they've learned everything they were trying to learn, maybe, and now they're moving on.

[Whitley Strieber]

But remember, they don't innovate very quickly. They're not. This room is far more creative than the Grays in their entirety, I believe. Believe. Just one room. And, you know, we have art, we have music, we have the Ramones. We have all kinds of stuff. We have Bach, Beethoven. Unbelievable array of creativity. All the art, all the. All the writing, all this stuff.

[Marcus Parks]

So you don't think they have art? They don't have art.

[Whitley Strieber]

I have never humor anything like that among them. They don't have color vision, which sets them back tremendously in terms of relating to the physical world the way we do, because we see the physical world very differently from the way they do. And Maybe they have. I've thought because they can see in the infrared and probably into the ultraviolet that they may have art that we literally can't see. Possibly. Gesundheit. But at the same time, I think it's a single mind. And I'm pretty sure as a single mind, if they had art and stuff like that, it's probably gotten old a long, long time ago. And that would be another reason they're here. They want to be enriched by this planet, which is probably one of the. If a lot of species have group minds like that, this planet could be one of the richest places in the universe because there's not a group mind here. I mean, you can. We can easily prove it. We're fighting all the time. And I don't think they ever fight with themselves because, you know, do you fight with yourself? A little bit, maybe, but not. Not. We don't. We're not going to take a gun and go shoot ourselves unless we want to commit suicide, but we're certainly not going to have an internal war with yourself. I don't. So they don't have that. They don't have armies and battles and stuff, and they also don't have art and newness and new discoveries. Everything they do possess that I have seen, including the way they interact with you, is kind of perfect. And where do you go from there? There's only one direction you can go in, back into imperfection to make new discoveries. And here we are. We are definitely not perfect.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Do you think that they would leave the artists at home? You know, it's not like we sent. We sent Neil Armstrong to the moon. We didn't send Jimi Hendrix.

[Marcus Parks]

He would be mad in that shot over here.

[Whitley Strieber]

If we had. As if it was as easy for us to get around in the universe as I'm pretty sure it is for them. Everyone would be going fast. Jimi Hendrix, I mean, you couldn't stop Elon Musk. The great artists would all go. The musicians, everyone. Everyone who could go would go. What an adventure.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Katy Perry doesn't count.

[Marcus Parks]

Katy Perry shouldn't be allowed.

[Whitley Strieber]

Fly from your grave.

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[Ed Larson]

So you mentioned, you know, earlier that we're at, you know, somewhat of an inflection point in humanity. So what is going on right now? Like what is happening?

[Whitley Strieber]

We're discovering basically that they're real and they're discovering that we have self awareness, self knowledge and complex minds that we are in a sense real too. That's what's basically happening. We're discovering that they really are here and they are discovering that we are a lot more complex than they realized.

[Marcus Parks]

Do they refer to a God?

[Whitley Strieber]

I think the best way to address that is to turn it around a little bit and say our gods are ours. They are not our gods. The grays, the visitors, they are, none of them are our gods. And I think they're very interested in what scientists call negative entropy. And being scientists, that sounds like something negative because it has the word negative in it. It actually isn't. It is the continuing proliferation of complexity in the universe. In other words, the world getting richer and richer and richer with more and more experience. And I'm pretty sure that's their idea of the sacred, that this is what is sacred as far as a God is concerned. Anne used to say that they understood God as a mathematical formula. And I often wondered, what in the world does that mean? And I found out after Annie passed away that there is a constant called the fine structure constant everything's appearance. The way the world Is physically and the way it works is dependent on that constant. The fascinating thing about it is it's not like the other constants, the Planck constant, which is the closest possible thing, distance. Two things can be together without touching. We understand why that is. We understand the why of all of the constants, but not that one. We don't understand why it happens to be the number one 137th. We don't know that. And I think you are looking at God there, that somewhere behind this universe is someone with a mind and with taste and with a desire to have it be the way it is. Because if you think about this, before the Big Bang, those constants had to already be there. They had to be there somewhere. And that somewhere was the mind of God. Because they didn't evolve as the universe burst out into reality, because it was following rules from the moment it began. Therefore, the rules were there before it was.

[Marcus Parks]

Why does that fraction not want people to be gay people to be white?

[Whitley Strieber]

I didn't hear you.

[Marcus Parks]

Why does that one fraction so desperate to keep people from being gay?

[Henry Zebrowski]

It should not recreate.

[Whitley Strieber]

I don't think it is. I don't think it is. I think, you know, you know, in ancient Rome, they didn't even have a word for homosexual. They didn't have a word for gay. That came along much later. And it only became really a part of our social contract in the Western world quite recently, within the past 200 years. I think it's something being the issue of gayness and the exploration of sexuality is something we're doing and we need to do right now. But I think it would be nice if we could put our prejudices behind us and just enjoy ourselves as what we are, because we are very complex. There's many different levels of human experience and human love and human desire. And let's just open our minds to all of them. And if somebody you don't like the looks of comes after you, run like hell.

[Marcus Parks]

Or embrace them and make sweet love to them.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

So what should humanity. I don't know at this point. What should we be doing as far, like, should we be welcoming it? Should we just be curious? Like, what is our role supposed to be right now as human beings at.

[Whitley Strieber]

This point in history, getting deep enough into this so that you don't feel. Feel a sense of shock about it? The more we do that, the more comfortable we become with it. You know, we have the skeptics screaming that it's a bunch of tinfoil hat people and people in the government perhaps playing us a little bit in various different ways. Let's just get past that and let's try to just look at this for what it is. Read the books, talk to the people, talk to each other, engage with the experiencers. And in that way we are going to get past the sense of shock. We don't need many. We need maybe a couple of million people who won't be shocked by this. When the Grays or whoever shows up, then we'll be fine. Most of the world knows nothing about this at all and they are going to be shocked. But if that core of people remains stable, that stability will spread through the whole species. So what you need to do is that engage with the experience at every level because you're the guys that count right now in this.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, that's actually very inspiring and I think that's correct. It's almost like instead of waiting for some form of government disclosure, it's like yourself. It's like you need to literally let it in yourself.

[Whitley Strieber]

We're. We're what disclosure is about. The. I know, at least from the grave standpoint, they're not coming until we're ready. They don't really care about the official world. That's why they have never intervened in the secrecy, because they want us to find our own way to be ready. They want us to do it and we have to do it on our own. And that means doing what I just said. We just have to do this. And they're very sensitive. They will know when there's enough of a cadre of people who are not going to be overwhelmed by this when they show up, and that's when they will be comfortable in coming. I don't think it has a whole lot to do with disclosure. I think that disclosure could advance it in the sense that then we would know at least that some people in the government thought this was real. But then the negative side of that is that the media is going to go running to them and saying and hanging on every word, which is already happening to some extent. And the truth is the people on the inside don't know as much about this as we do. The people on the outside, the experiencer community is much more informed about this than the insiders. As far as I can tell, they have very surfacy understanding of it. The ones that have spoken out, very surfacey understanding of it. They're not nearly. I think Chris Bledsoe knows a whole lot more about this than Lou Elizondo does, for example. And not that Lou is there's anything Wrong with what Lou knows. But people need to go to Chris or come to me or people like us before they go to the government insiders. If they're going to get really informed.

[Marcus Parks]

That makes a lot of sense because I also think there's a lot of religiosity that keeps them from being genuinely curious. They're actually very scared of it.

[Whitley Strieber]

Of course they're going to be scared. Everyone's scared. The Grace. They're going to be really scared. Oh, and the insiders. Yeah, there's a. I don't know much about this, but I've heard that there's an. A strong level of belief among many of these people that this is basically a demonic presence. And, you know, if you think about the way the Grays are, they react if, you know, if you shoot at them, they're going to get really scary. They're not necessarily going to shoot back, but you're going to definitely be really scared or you're going to be turned into a supplicant. Like I described that other weapon earlier, the positive weapon that makes you into a. Into a compliant, you know, evaporates your aggressiveness.

[Marcus Parks]

Speaking of being a supplicant, it's time for me to introduce our very special segment here for last podcast on the left, live from contact in the desert. It's called Spicy Times.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay, I will respect this, but I have to say that was really an awkward segue.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, that's my job, Whitley.

[Whitley Strieber]

No, I was. I was. I was.

[Marcus Parks]

You said before you saw the email.

[Whitley Strieber]

No, no, I saw the email. It was very vague. And now I see a lot of hot sauce.

[Marcus Parks]

This is a big thing from Wingstop. This is a big get for us. We gave money to Wingstop for this.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And if Henry doesn't eat everything.

[Whitley Strieber]

I have money. I'll give you money back.

[Marcus Parks]

Do you want money? Do you want to do. Do you want to try. Try one of these? Well, you can just have one. Let me ask you some questions while.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You'Re eating wings, and I think you should, too.

[Whitley Strieber]

Henry, I am going to do it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I. I want to see that one.

[Whitley Strieber]

Not this one.

[Marcus Parks]

Don't touch that one.

[Whitley Strieber]

Not that one.

[Marcus Parks]

Not the bot.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That one.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

This is. You know what? Christmas. This is delicious. This is honestly delicious. It's called lemon pepper. It's got a banana thing. It's a banana layer. It's like a Jamaican jerk kind of deliciousness. Honestly, this is very good. I use this all the time.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And I want you to cover the. The wing.

[Whitley Strieber]

It has.

[Marcus Parks]

To.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yes. What Am I seeing here? Why would this. Why would this hot sauce contain a prayer for the dead?

[Marcus Parks]

It's because it's preparing you now, sir. I'm gonna. And we're gonna do this. We're gonna ask you questions, and we're gonna get to the bottom some really important things. We're gonna ask some. We're gonna eat some spicy spiced wings, and we're gonna ask some spicy questions. Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Henry has prepared five questions. He's gonna eat the wings and try to ask the questions.

[Whitley Strieber]

I'm really doing this.

[Marcus Parks]

These are easy. These are easy. These are easy. Here we go. Here we go. So the first question, it's, my good.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Sir, you put it on first and eat it before you. There you go.

[Marcus Parks]

Who's your first crush? Celebrity crush.

[Whitley Strieber]

My first crush.

[Marcus Parks]

I can't kill you. Got to talk all day.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Was it that chicken?

[Whitley Strieber]

Rome was a little girl named Christina, and we went to a costume ball together dressed as a prince and princess. I was the prince. She grew up to be gay, and now she's a prince, too. Oh, wow.

[Marcus Parks]

That's amazing.

[Whitley Strieber]

This is pretty good.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Also, full disclosure, Henry's phone was already covered in sauce before this.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

All right, now they're lying.

[Whitley Strieber]

He's not eating any sauce.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, I poured it. I poured it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And I want you to eat before you ask.

[Whitley Strieber]

I have to honestly say this sauce is very mild.

[Marcus Parks]

It's very delicious.

[Whitley Strieber]

It is very delicious.

[Marcus Parks]

This is one step above all right. This is yellow birds habanero hot sauce. They're not giving us any money, and this is not a sponsorship.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They're actually very good, though.

[Marcus Parks]

And it's not hot ones spicy times. So for this one, my good sir, you can try this. This habanero. I won't give you the ghost pepper. This habanero.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

It's quite good. It was very tasty, actually. Here, I'll squirt mine first. You want me to give you a squirt?

[Whitley Strieber]

I'll take my own, thank you.

[Marcus Parks]

Squirt mine. Now squirt his.

[Whitley Strieber]

Here you go, squirt. There we go.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm gonna get one of these in here. Drench that.

[Ed Larson]

More.

[Whitley Strieber]

More.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Whitley Strieber]

There you go.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

I've had nothing but coffee and Pepsi AC today so far.

[Whitley Strieber]

Well, I have Pepsi, Daisy. I have. I already had lunch, so I'm having. I'm just sort of nibbling here. Okay. Let's get some serious sauce on here. Okay. Everyone in the audience who can see that, you see this is here.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's efficient.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, Great. Not bad.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because you were buddies with. This question is particular for you because you were buddies with Eric Clapton.

[Whitley Strieber]

No, I wasn't buddies with Eric Clapton. I hung out in Eric Clapton's flat in London. Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Don't sit near the window.

[Whitley Strieber]

I knew him, that's all. But there were a lot of people hanging out in that flat.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, but. And we weren't.

[Whitley Strieber]

We weren't good buddies. But he certainly knew me and I knew him. I doubt he remembers me now back in the 60s, but the question still remains.

[Marcus Parks]

The song After Midnight, do you listen to the song before, after or at midnight so that the song ends after midnight?

[Whitley Strieber]

I've never heard of the song after Midnight.

[Marcus Parks]

We're gonna let it scream and shout.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay, I have heard of the song. I would recommend listening to it during the day just to be contrary.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Follow up question. As far as musicians go, I read that you had. You used to have regular dinners with Lou Reed where you would. You said you had.

[Marcus Parks]

Fascinating.

[Ed Larson]

Paranoid.

[Whitley Strieber]

Lou Reed and I went down many conspiratorial paths together.

[Ed Larson]

What was the strangest paranoid conversation?

[Whitley Strieber]

We talked a lot about something that has become much more real. We talked a lot about Mars. And now there's a guy here, Peter Robbins. Do not miss his stuff. Look him up. He's. He's not well known, but I had him on Dream. Well, I'll tell you. A couple of years ago, a year and a half ago, I was in England and I was invited to a conference and he was there. I hadn't seen him in years. He's a sweet guy. He was a dear friend of Bud Hopkins. And he proceeds to give this unbelievable presentation about picture after picture of things on the moon and Mars that NASA has airbrushed out. They have hidden something in plain sight on the moon and on Mars. They're hiding something in our solar system from us. Never a straight fucking answer. And Peter laid it on out, so I had him on dreamland. And he laid it out again on dreamland. And he's here laying it out again. So don't miss this. Lou and I talked a lot about Mars and that the idea that there may have been a civilization distant past and so on and so forth, but we were speculating. It's real. There's something going on that we are not supposed to know about. Because the insiders who are better than us get to know and we get shafted. No, it's over.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, like also, I guess my question is, is that they are this. They are powerful and ancient and past us I guess one question is, why do they have to try so hard to be mysterious? Like, how do they just not like. I guess that's what it's like. Is it just. Cause we are ended up being more complex than they thought we were.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah. I think that. I do not think that they. They. They don't innovate and they don't make decisions quickly. They just don't.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Is your blood sugar dropping?

[Marcus Parks]

I'm so hungry.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Just do the bit.

[Whitley Strieber]

Where's the other dish? These are all right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is crystals.

[Marcus Parks]

This is a little. This is going to be hotter. This is the ghost pepper.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay. It's going to be hotter. Am I. Why. Why am I not feeling these?

[Marcus Parks]

I don't know. It's because I think, honestly, you might be in shock.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Remember, you have a panel at three. Mr. Streamer, please go see George's.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay. Ghost pepper hot. Let's see what it's like.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, this one's.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's the question.

[Whitley Strieber]

It's good.

[Marcus Parks]

All right, one last question. I quit cigarette smoking. Right. I still love the smell of cigarettes. Does. Like when you're walking through the day. Because if you talked about the smells of the Grace smelling like burning cardboard, does that do for you? Do that for you when you're in Los Angeles?

[Whitley Strieber]

I do not like the smells of the Grace. They have numerous smells that I have not discussed in any detail for a reason. I will discuss the ammonia smell in my. What? My workshop. Why don't you just.

[Marcus Parks]

Why not discuss them? Just because you think people won't take them? Like.

[Whitley Strieber]

No, it's.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, look, these guys want this.

[Whitley Strieber]

I told Bud Hopkins this story, and he said, that is so disgusting. Whitley, you have. That has. That can't be real. That has to be your imagination.

[Ed Larson]

This is the crowd for that, trust me.

[Whitley Strieber]

And then what it was was they showed me that material was coming out of their skin, out of their pores, and they were brushing it off. Like it turned into like a dry kind of stuff. And they would brush it off of their arms and it smelled like ammonia. It was like. Smelled like urine, actually. Sort of, but different. Not quite like that, but close. And I said to Bud, you know, this is how they relieve themselves. This is how they evacuate. And he said, whitley, that is so disgusting. Don't tell anyone that story. It'll ruin your career. And I said to myself, what career? My career is long since gone. And, you know, these are really good.

[Marcus Parks]

They're really good. That's what I'm saying. Yellow bird's good.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's good.

[Whitley Strieber]

Stuff Yellow bird is. They're all good. But this one has got a nice bite to it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I like these. And this is truly. Dirty Dicks is my favorite.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah, we know you might. Yeah, well, yeah, you don't need to go down that path too much about yourself.

[Marcus Parks]

That is so honestly though. But I find those are the details that people find extremely interesting.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah. Well, the thing is, the reason I write, one of the reasons I wrote the fourth mind, was that this was in my mind for years. I mean, I knew I'd seen this. I saw it in my own eyes. Then this document appears on Reddit and the first paragraph is a detailed description of that precise thing that I had never told anyone about. And therefore the person who wrote the document knew the truth. It was a real document. It had to be, because no one's going to dream that up. It's too strange. It's very specific and it's so specific. So the Reddit document is damned real in large part. I can't say it's totally real, but that part of it certainly is. And I think most of the material about their biology and anatomy in that document is probably real. I think the document is a true thing. I do not know, and pardon me if I'm hiccuping, but I'm actually enjoying it at the same time, I do not know who wrote the document. I have no idea. I don't. I'm.

[Marcus Parks]

You know that 4chan whistleblower thing that came out? Right. I believe that got spread to Reddit. Right. Wasn't it a long document of a.

[Whitley Strieber]

Guy, A long involved document about their biology. And a lot of that document I can confirm from my own experience, including things that aren't anywhere except in my own experience and in the document. So that makes the document, for me a very powerful documents.

[Marcus Parks]

Unless the CIA is dumping it on Reddit to discredit. They're like that. That then times I.

[Whitley Strieber]

How can they. It's not possible to use that as to discredit because it's too specific and too strange.

[Ed Larson]

I do have a question about that. You know, I know we're nearing the end here, but I think it's fascinating. Like the. It does seem like people hold back a lot when it comes to their experiences with rays, but it's somewhat paradoxical to me because it seems like people do very much want to be believed and they want to share the experience, but they're.

[Whitley Strieber]

They want to be believed and so they tailor their actual experience into making it somewhat more believable.

[Ed Larson]

Sure.

[Whitley Strieber]

And they don't say certain things. But I'm not like that anymore. I was when Bud scared me when he said that. And I thought, I mustn't say this. I'm long past that at this point. I'll tell you anything I can. But I will say this. There are things in my experience, not that I won't tell you, but that I don't know how to put into words. And it's very frustrating because they're major things, like the way they communicate with me physically. I can't put it into words. I can't. But it's real. Like, I just don't know how to say it, which is.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean.

[Ed Larson]

And for you, I mean, you're a writer.

[Whitley Strieber]

I'm supposed to know how to say these things. Right.

[Ed Larson]

But that's sort of. My point is that there are so many of these people out there who have these experiences that don't have the advantage that you have of being like, that's right.

[Whitley Strieber]

A lot of people can't articulate it, but I can. And there are also a surprising number of people in the close encounter community who are very articulate. Debbie Jordan is a perfect example. She's very articulate, and she can really explain her experiences very clearly. And you read certain books. Chris Bledsoe was very good about explaining his experience experiences. You know, there's a lot of people. J. Christopher King can do a very good job of explaining this. So there are plenty of people who are articulate, but there are a vast number of people who've had incredible experiences. And they come up to me all the time at, like, conferences like this, and I'm hearing this phenomenal experience, and I always say, write it down and send me an email. Because those emails all go into a file, and that file grows the archive at Rice University. And so. Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Actually, do you want to give the audience your email? Like, in terms of what they give you to.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay. My email address is very simple. Whitleyber.com Nice. And I will read it. And if it's a nasty email, then my assistant will send you a reply. If it's not, I will.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Before we go, you have to eat this, Henry.

[Marcus Parks]

I have to do the.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You bought this. You're doing this.

[Marcus Parks]

I'll just do it here. You're not doing this.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You could have another Habanero, Mr. Streamer.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay. They do not want me to have a stroke on their show later. They don't care.

[Marcus Parks]

You're not allowed to die.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I was really worried that, you know something, you know, you would be Something would happen to you. But Henry deserves this.

[Whitley Strieber]

They gave me only mild tasty hot sauces. Don't be fooled.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What's the question you want to ask? Remember to put it in your head, Henry, before you eat this, cuz it's going to mess your life up. No, no. Eat it first and then ask it. Yeah, Here we go. Let's see what this is the whole thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little more.

[Whitley Strieber]

He's turning red. Look at that.

[Marcus Parks]

That's horrible.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What is that?

[Whitley Strieber]

Was that Henry?

[Marcus Parks]

That's a bong. Oh, God.

[Whitley Strieber]

What did you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What is he. What is it?

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah, that's actually. That's real serious, Whitley.

[Whitley Strieber]

I don't believe you. I want to taste that. I don't know, Whitley.

[Marcus Parks]

That's real serious, huh?

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay. That's real serious.

[Marcus Parks]

I.

[Whitley Strieber]

What did you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What did you want to ask?

[Whitley Strieber]

Hello?

[Marcus Parks]

That's bad.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We're out of time.

[Marcus Parks]

We're over. We're over. Five minutes. We have to go. Do you. Who's your favorite person here?

[Whitley Strieber]

Well, I have some friends here who are all my favorite people. Oh, that's nice. And I love. God, I can't have a favorite person in my life. I'm in love with people.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, man, that's really nice. That's too nice.

[Whitley Strieber]

It's the truth. It's the truth. You do something like this for years and you see all these people trying to understand and trying to find their way with it. And you're doing the same and you basically. You fall in love. And that's why I keep doing it.

[Marcus Parks]

That's amazing. Whitley, don't.

[Ed Larson]

Thank you so much for joining us today.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you so much.

[Whitley Strieber]

Whitley Streamer.

[Marcus Parks]

Whitley Streamer, everybody.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yes, thanks.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Wonderful.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow, what an interview.

[Ed Larson]

Wasn't it? I mean, I was just. I was so. His demeanor was so surprising to me. Just how like you said earlier, like that he was warm and he was friendly and that the. Me like, I just. I wanted to go so much further into like. He hung out at Maxis Kansas City. He like the cool. He like. Not only is all this, you know, like true, like him being an alien abductee and all that, but dude hung out at Maxis Kansas City. He saw the New York Dolls.

[Marcus Parks]

He knew Lou Reed. Yeah, dude, like that's like one of those things where as we're talking about aliens, we're talking about aliens. Marcus has like all of his questions lined up and he obviously he's Talking deep about UFOs and his experience with the Galactic Federation, but it's like but he gave Marcus nothing of Blue Reed. And it's just like. And that's all he really wanted to talk about.

[Ed Larson]

That's what I was so excited about. Just like. Because I know Lou Reed was all. He was also into the occult. I think it was the White Flame.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Night, White Heat.

[Ed Larson]

What was it? White Light, White Knight was Jonestown.

[Whitley Strieber]

Oh, cool.

[Ed Larson]

But yeah, Alice Monroe. Maybe it's Alice somebody. But yeah, I thought that there would be something. But no, he gave me nothing. And then when I. And I asked, even asked him before, it's like, so you went to Max, Kansas City. He's like, you saw like the New York Dolls. You see television? He's like, yeah, yeah. Saw him like, give me. What was it like?

[Marcus Parks]

Did you go to Marshall Hotel? It's a separate interview. Yeah, we're going to have to get him on. No, dog.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You just hand him a spoon and a lighter and see how he acts.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Come on. Oh, hell yeah. Some good old fashioned Western brown.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I just feel honored that he actually talked to us.

[Ed Larson]

I really do too. Like, I, it just, it, I. I think it shows bravery on his part.

[Marcus Parks]

It does. Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And he was, I would say, just open to dealing with, like, us. Because he's been having to deal with like, us since the first episode of South Park.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

You know, like, he really has, like, it. That's the alien. Yeah, the, the anal probe jokes. I mean, they all come from him. It comes from him, all that. And he's been dealing with that for many, many years.

[Marcus Parks]

When that's your legacy, sometimes it might be hard walking around a squidly streamer.

[Ed Larson]

It might be. But the man's got grace. The man's got class. And I'd love to speak with him again.

[Marcus Parks]

Absolutely.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, I love him.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Let's go find him.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. Listen, but go and go and watch our, our comedy show.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. On LPN TV, on YouTube. And then go to patreon.com lastpodcast and left to check out a bunch of other interviews we did at Contact. We are slapping it all on there and then at LP on the left for all of your social needs. And Please subscribe on YouTube. It's so easy and it's free.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We're gonna be in St. Paul, Minnesota.

[Whitley Strieber]

Soon, so come very soon. Hailstate.

[Ed Larson]

Enjoy yourself now in Helgeno. Also going to be in Milwaukee.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yes, I've heard about that.

[Whitley Strieber]

I've heard about Millywake, the Goodland Hailstreet.

[Ed Larson]

Hailstreever.

[Instacart/Maurices Advertiser]

I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous. Gorgeous. Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love, like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your dsw store or dsw.com.