Episode 651: Bob Lazar & Area 51

Summary

Last Podcast On The Left

Episode 651: Bob Lazar & Area 51

Release Date: February 6, 2026
Hosts: Marcus Parks, Henry Zebrowski, Eddie Lee

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Episode Overview

This episode delves deep into the bizarre, controversial, and endlessly strange life and claims of Bob Lazar, the man who injected Area 51, alleged government UFO retrieval programs, and the mythos of reverse-engineered alien technology into global pop culture. With their signature blend of humor, skepticism, and conspiracy-lore expertise, the hosts unpack Bob's life story—from jet cars and brothel investments to claims of handling element 115 for secret military projects. Along the way, they dissect what makes Lazar such a tantalizing figure: his checkered past, uncanny scientific abilities, and the blurry line between prankster, fabricator, and whistleblower.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Enduring Allure of Bob Lazar and Area 51

• (05:12 – 08:01) Bob Lazar's 1989 interviews with George Knapp exploded Area 51 into the cultural forefront, transforming it from a niche conspiracy topic into a byword for government secrets and UFO lore.
• “Area 51 also quickly came to represent the totality of what the government isn't telling us. Yeah, it is a physical symbol of distrust towards authority.” — Eddie Lee (07:22)

2. Origins of a "Bad Boy Nerd": Bob's Youth, DIY Rocketry, and Dubious Credentials

• (13:51 – 20:21) Born in Florida, Bob was a self-taught science enthusiast, prone to explosive (literally) homemade projects. His academic record, contrary to his later claims, is murky and reveals both insecurity and creative self-promotion.
• “Bob Lazar is sort of the bad boy of the UFO world.” — Eddie Lee (11:19)
• His claims of attending Caltech and MIT are debunked; actual records show he attended community college.
• “...when you look back and you're trying to explain when everyone's saying like, well, how the [hell] were you there working on this UFO, he's like, oh, well, I needed, I had to have all these sort of accreditations. We don't realize in the world of the intelligence services...they do whatever the [hell] they want.” — Marcus Parks (18:00)

3. Bob's Wild Personal Life: Brothels, Criminal Spouses, And Rocket Cars

• (21:16 – 28:01, 44:19 – 50:12)
  • Married an ex-con involved in murder and amphetamines; later, his next wife was also convicted of bank fraud.
  • Parallel pursuit: custom-built jet cars and a love for dangerous women.
  • Involved as either owner or investor in the Honeysuckle Ranch brothel (“more honey for the money”).
  • “Bob Lazar got more bush than any other ufologist in reality...” — Marcus Parks (10:39)

4. Professional Life: Scientist, Prankster, and Early Days at Los Alamos

• (32:00 – 39:16)
  • Bob lands a job at Los Alamos National Laboratory (proven by records), working with advanced tech and pulling off pranks involving hazardous “radiation” balloons.
  • His innovations with rocket engines landed him local fame—a Los Alamos news story about his jet-powered Honda Civic.
  • “There's no real reason except for going fast.” — Bob Lazar, quoted by Eddie Lee (39:01)

5. The Turning Point: From Local Eccentric to UFO Insider

• (39:37 – 43:13)
  • Bob meets hydrogen bomb “father” Edward Teller, leaving an impression with his jet-car exploits.
  • This odd meeting forms the possible springboard to his later work at Area 51.

6. Area 51, S-4, and The Birth of Modern UFO Mythology

• (56:13 – 68:21)
  • Bob’s role at EG&G (a nuke contractor linked to secret government projects) leads to alleged work at Area S-4, a subsite of Area 51, surrounded by immense secrecy and security.
  • He claims exposure to vast compartmentalization: Project Galileo (reverse engineering propulsion), Project Looking Glass (materials analysis), and Project Sidekick (weaponry).
  • Anecdotes of seeing anti-gravity reactors, trying to identify “element 115,” and gleaning details from mysterious dossiers.

7. The "Disclosure": Vaulting Lazar (and Area 51) Into Pop Culture

• (108:18 – 114:41)
  • After an alleged threat (car tire shot out by professionals), Bob is persuaded to go public. Interviews with George Knapp cement the Area 51 legend.
  • The 1989 KLAS TV interviews—first shadowy, then with Lazar revealed—ignite an international frenzy about secret bases and alien technology.
  • “In very short order, Area 51 went from being a fringe belief to a central part of the world's collective knowledge about UFOs.” — Eddie Lee (110:26)

8. Skepticism, Disinformation, and the Muddied Waters of Ufology

• (62:14 – 65:23, 79:21 – 81:32)
  • Contemplates the Majestic 12 papers and the U.S. government's interest in tracking disinformation—or planting it.
  • The possibility is raised that Lazar could have been intentionally seeded with false information as part of a larger counterintelligence game.

9. Fallout and Consequences: Surveillance, Pandering Charges, and Pimping By Computer

• (115:45 – 120:51)
  • Bob faces intense surveillance, personal and legal troubles, including a pandering arrest (pimping without a license), attempts at “modernizing” sex work, and being a fixture in the Nevada brothel scene.
  • “Pimping is not easy.” — Marcus Parks (116:34)
  • Ultimately, Bob’s troubles rarely fit the stereotypes of hard-edged criminality—often, he’s too nice for the underworld.

10. The 21st-Century Legacy: Entrepreneurs, FBI Raids, and New Docudramas

• (121:10 – 126:57)
  • Lazar’s business United Nuclear sells chemicals (and Area 51 merch), leading to a high-profile FBI raid—coincidentally during filming of a Jeremy Corbell documentary.
  • The role of element 115 (aka Moscovium) remains ambiguous; Bob claims he took a sample, but no evidence supports this.
  • The FBI’s actual interest: a homicide case involving poison, not lost alien elements.

11. Enduring Mystery: What is True, and Why Bob Lazar Matters

• (127:42 – End)
  • Multiple layers of narrative—possible secret tech, possible elaborate pranks, possible abductions—illustrate the extraordinary ambiguity still surrounding Bob Lazar.
  • “No matter whether Area 51 is full of UFOs or not, people believe that it is...and that’s because of Bob Lazar.” — Eddie Lee (131:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Strange Career Requirements for UFO Whistleblowers

• “The only person is your friend is a guy in a galactic uniform on an oxygen tank.” — Henry Zebrowski (04:45)

On Bob's Wild History

• “Bob Lazar is a man who does not mind danger in any way whatsoever.” — Eddie Lee (15:35)
• “Bob's life was full of complicated women.” — Eddie Lee (11:19)

On the Nature of Conspiracy Lore

• “It is a physical symbol of distrust towards authority. And it’s something that anyone can go and see for themselves if they're willing to take the drive out to the Nevada desert.” — Eddie Lee (07:22)

On Fame and Frauds

• “You’re the man with the jet car.” — Edward Teller, as recounted by the hosts (40:17)
• “A genius gets someone else to drive it.” — Henry Zebrowski (39:28)

Dissecting Disinformation

• “It’s more like muddying the water letters.” — Marcus Parks (63:52)
• “It’s to see where information goes from point A to Z... Like the Majestic papers were probably a series of planted pieces of information to see how secure are we.” — Marcus Parks (64:03)

On Area 51 Going Mainstream

• “[Bob’s interview] received international attention... In very short order, Area 51 went from being a fringe belief to a central part of the world’s collective knowledge about UFOs.” — Eddie Lee (110:26)

On The Real Impact

• “He’s the reason we know about Area 51.” — Eddie Lee (131:31)

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Select Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:27 | Introduction to Bob Lazar and why he’s pivotal | | 13:51 | Bob’s childhood and personality | | 32:00 | Working at Los Alamos, jet car exploits | | 44:19 | The wild, criminal histories of Bob’s wives | | 56:13 | Bob joins EG&G, introduction to Area 51 lore | | 68:21 | Bob’s first day at Area S-4, security clearance frustrations | | 76:13 | Compartmentalized projects: Galileo, Looking Glass, Sidekick | | 85:14 | Element 115 (“Moscovium”) and its UFO lore | | 90:41 | Bob’s personal struggles, mounting surveillance at home | | 98:24 | "The Box": Roadside UFO-watching and confirming unusual phenomena| | 108:18 | Turning whistleblower: The infamous George Knapp interviews | | 115:45 | The pandering case and the softer side of “pimping” in Nevada | | 121:10 | The United Nuclear FBI raid and Lazar’s new legend status | | 127:42 | Final wrap-up: What’s real, what’s myth, and why Bob still matters|

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Tone & Language

The episode is an irreverent blend of skepticism, deep-dive research, and gallows humor, often fluctuating between awe at the strangeness of the story and derision at its more absurd or self-serving elements. There is a through-line of affectionate mockery—of Bob, of ufology, and of American conspiratorial thinking more broadly. Despite the jokes, the hosts’ research is detailed and their discussion nuanced, never letting Bob off the hook, yet never entirely discounting the impact of his legend.

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Summary Takeaway

Bob Lazar—real scientist, prankster, liar, or dupe—remains the founding father of modern Area 51 mythos. Whether by design or accident, he made “secret military UFO retrieval and reverse engineering” an indelible part of both pop culture and conspiracy lore. The hosts argue that, ultimately, the truth may circle less around actual aliens and more around Bob’s drive to matter, muddying the waters, and the government’s own interest in managing popular belief. No matter where the truth lies, it's Bob Lazar’s story that made Area 51 and the question of “what’s out there” an enduring American obsession.

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For more details, refer to the timestamps above and listen to specific sections for direct quotes and classic Last Podcast on the Left banter!

Transcript

[Marcus Parks]

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[Henry Zebrowski]

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[Marcus Parks]

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[Henry Zebrowski]

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[Marcus Parks]

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[Eddie Lee]

There's no place to escape to.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is the last on the left.

[Marcus Parks]

That's when the cannibalism stop started. What was that? You know what this whole episode made me realize? Like, it's like I'm sad in one way because your life's alive. Wow. No, not this carefully constructed, wonderful character that you see.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, let me have a sip out of your $3,000 muon pill.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, I only did it for five years. It was only about 15.

[Eddie Lee]

And please, it was. He did it for the polo, not for the cup and the lander.

[Marcus Parks]

The lantern was quite good. I didn't even know we got the cup. I don't know where that came from. But one thing I missed about this time period is going back to the. The world of art Bell. Going back to Bill Cooper, Bob Lazar. These real, like, real old heads know how awesome it used to be. But the one thing that keeps coming up in all of my research is what a missed opportunity the Mexican community didn't take during 2012. How during 2012 if they had just. On December 21st, all we need is one guy covered in LED lights dressed in a Quetzalcoatl like uniform. I'm saying Mexico's different. I'm saying the world's different.

[Eddie Lee]

You think so?

[Marcus Parks]

If they leaned into their Mayenne ness. If they leaned into how to, you.

[Eddie Lee]

Know, just take the calendar. The calendar? Yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You take the power back. Really? No, it's Mexican time now. Now y' all are on Mexican time. They could have done so much stuff with that, but they just don't capitalize on that kind of like world bending conspiracy. Thought they would have just wore a.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Bunch of lights and convinced us all that we were dead, dude.

[Eddie Lee]

That's all they had to do. Welcome to last podcast on the left, ladies and gentlemen.

[Marcus Parks]

We're here, money man.

[Eddie Lee]

We're here solving the world's crises. My name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with man with questionable opinions, Henry Zabowski.

[Marcus Parks]

From 1992 to 2012, all they talked about was 2012.

[Eddie Lee]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And how they talked about Y2K a lot.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah, I forgot. I'm sorry.

[Eddie Lee]

It was mostly Y2K. And then they switched to 2012 somewhere around 2009.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Because they had. It was easy to switch the bumper stickers.

[Marcus Parks]

There was so much banking on 2012.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

For all of these theories.

[Eddie Lee]

There really was. Yeah. I mean, I remember, remember, we were very excited.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, I had my pack of cigarettes because I'd already quit and I. Again, my pack of cigarettes. I was so ready to smoke my end of the world cigarettes.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. And if I remember correctly, the day came and passed. I did not even notice it because I was too busy working on an episode.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Completely. Shame, shame, shame on me and shame on Ed Larson. Forget for coming in 10 seconds into the show and already ripping this decant to pieces.

[Marcus Parks]

There's no reason for it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I am a little bit scared. Skeptical. But I will say, after we went to Contact in the desert twice, I believe it a little more only because I know that there's no money in this.

[Marcus Parks]

Right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know that they're all completely broke.

[Eddie Lee]

That really is the thing that unlocks UFO knowledge. Like when you get. Because there's always this idea that all these people are doing it for the money. They're doing it to get some sort of. Like, there's never any money.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's nothing. You should have tried the salmon.

[Eddie Lee]

I mean, man, that is awful.

[Marcus Parks]

Painful divorce. Like literally no friends.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

No job. No. No hiring prospects. Bad, bad psychological reviews. Everybody hates you at the dmv Umology. Cores you out and leaves you for dead.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. The only person is your friend is a guy in a galactic uniform on an oxygen tank.

[Marcus Parks]

He's just sitting there being like, you know, I actually don't know if I'm going to get to the Saturn recon 2025 this year due to my. Obviously have some form of advanced tuberculosis. They don't know how it came back.

[Eddie Lee]

But.

[Marcus Parks]

You hear this thing about the Jews.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Anyway, they poisoned me from the government.

[Eddie Lee]

And the reason why we're talking about mufam, we're talking about contact in the desert, is because today we are finally getting around to talking about one of. I Would say one of the father, the modern fathers of ufology. Ufology, as it were.

[Marcus Parks]

Definitely conspiracy theory. And weirdo thought.

[Eddie Lee]

We're going to be talking about a man named Bob Lazarus. Well, Bob Lazar is more or less the guy who brought the concept of Area 51 into the larger global consciousness. Before Bob came forward in 1989 as a so called whistleblower, claiming that he'd worked with alien tech on a top secret military base in Nevada, Area 51 was mostly something that only hardcore UFO conspiracy theorists knew about. But after Bob did a series of interviews with UFO mainstay George Knapp, best known today for his work on Skinwalker.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Ranch and being a fucking awesome ass dude.

[Eddie Lee]

Fuck yeah. Being a bro.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Being my fucking new dad.

[Marcus Parks]

Please take, please take me, George.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He looks such great hair. God.

[Marcus Parks]

Whip me, shave me, George.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Did you get a chance to smell him?

[Eddie Lee]

I didn't know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh yeah, you got to sneak up behind him.

[Marcus Parks]

He smells like newspapers.

[Eddie Lee]

Oh, I bet. Newspapers in Sandalwood.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, sure. I didn't get that to his. I didn't close to his neck.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, after Bob Lazar did a series of interviews with George Knapp, Area 51 became a large part of the world's collective knowledge about UFOs. Just as the Montauk project morphed into stranger things, Area 51 went from being a place that only the most ardent oofologists knew about to a cultural touchstone. Lest you forget, Area 51 was the site of the Independence Day speech. In Independence Day, it was the central location of the most successful alien invasion movie of all time. Independence Day was 96, 97. Bob Lazar's interview was 1989. It was very fast.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, actually, I didn't even put that together. That was after.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, Roland Emmerich, who fucking did Independence Day. Also 2012.

[Marcus Parks]

Mexicans, when you need them.

[Eddie Lee]

By that same turn, though, Area 51 also quickly came to represent the totality of what the government isn't telling us. Yeah, it is a physical symbol of distrust towards authority. And it's something that anyone can go and see for themselves if they're willing to take the drive out to the Nevada desert. But that's all to say that the increased visibility of Area 51 was due to a brilliant amateur rocket enthusiast and former brothel owner named Bob Lazar. This makes Bob, whether he's telling the truth or not, an incredibly important figure when it comes to the people who have shaped American culture over the last few decades.

[Marcus Parks]

And I'm going to say this just as a fellow podcaster But Joe Rogan really dropped the ball when it came to Bob Lazar. If you really want to know the real and get to know Bob, get past his very, very cool veneer.

[Eddie Lee]

Oh yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You need to go to Art Bell and what we lost when we lost Art Bell was one of the, I now think about it, Art Bell died. Side story started. Art Bell had the amazing ability to both hold. I'm making fun of you and I'm listening to you. He know, he knew how to do the wink, the wonder, he knew how to do it all. And it's a thing that we just desperately need and don't have anymore.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Art's interview to me was like so much more informative than the entire documentary that I saw.

[Marcus Parks]

Unfortunately yes, Art knows how to do it and he did it. Fucking right. And I listened to all five and a half hours of every single interview he did with Bob.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, you know my problem with UFO docs is I've watched a bunch for you now now and I.

[Eddie Lee]

You've watched a bunch for your job.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I do get paid more.

[Marcus Parks]

Still had to go look at ghosts.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But my problem with all of them is it's like not that much information. It's just like dudes walking through the desert with ethereal music and nothing happens.

[Eddie Lee]

It's why they talk so slowly. Because if you have to fill the full 90 minutes exactly. If UFO documentaries talked at a normal speed, the whole thing would be like, I don't know, half an hour, then you're done.

[Marcus Parks]

But they're afraid to get into the full lore because they're afraid to scoop. I feel like a lot of times they're just afraid to scare people away.

[Eddie Lee]

Sure.

[Marcus Parks]

Cuz they can't handle the heat.

[Eddie Lee]

Now Bob Lazar is unlike any other UFO whistleblower or witness that we've covered over the years. While most witnesses are either buttoned up military men like Charles hall, the man who interacted with the tall whites, or straight laced family types like, you know, Betty Andre. Remember she had the hallucinatory Christian experience. Bob Lazarus has a bit of salt and pepper in his background. He's definitely not a bad guy by any stretch. But Bob does have a background that one could call little shady.

[Marcus Parks]

And it's one of those great ingredients for an disinformation officer, possibly.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You said he owned a brothel. We just kind of moved past that. Like he didn't say that.

[Eddie Lee]

We're going, we're going to get into it and we're also going to get into whether he owned the brothel or whether he was merely an investor in the brothel.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Say investor, because if you own a brothel, you change your name to Bob Laser. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Bobar is also. Let's just straight up say, of all the people involved in the UFO community, the only one who's seen more vaginas than one that is a professional gynecologist on the side. You know, I mean, like they are. Bob Lazar got more bush than any other ufologist in reality, Stan Friedman. He was hawking that wife. I loved his wife. Wife. Sweet lady.

[Eddie Lee]

Sweet lady.

[Marcus Parks]

She was taking that Stanley Friedman his whole life.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know Nick Pope ain't swimming in it.

[Marcus Parks]

We met him. He's like. His wife seemed to be sweet, but she's complicated. Not Bob.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Bob didn't have that problem at all.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no, no, no.

[Eddie Lee]

Bob's life was full of complicated women. We're gonna get into that now. Even though Bob presents himself and looks like a nerd's nerd. He's skinny, he's got glasses the size of satellites. Bob is sort of the bad boy of the UFO world.

[Marcus Parks]

Like me.

[Eddie Lee]

He's a. You're not the bad boy of the UFO world.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No.

[Marcus Parks]

Look at me. I'm starting it. It's gang. I'm in the game. Yeah. Look at me. I dare you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, he does look like a penetrated.

[Marcus Parks]

Ned Flanders try to take my chicken tenders.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, Bob Lazar is a man who marries dangerous women. He's got a record for pimping, and he's so enthusiastic about speed that he put a fucking jet engine on his Honda Civic. But while Bob is himself a fascinating character, his claim to fame is that he allegedly worked on alien tech for the US government at Area 51 for just a few months in 1989. His job, he claims, was the reverse engineering of propulsion systems from UFO craft that the government had obtained one way or another. So to see how this bad boy of the nerd world made his way into what is supposedly the world's largest repository of alien tech, let's spend today's episode telling the life story of Bob Lazar. For sources, we used his 2019 autobiography, Dreamland. Although our research team did do quite a bit of digging on their own in an attempt to discover what the real story behind behind Bob Lazar's claims.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Actually is as code for the research team. Don't believe anything that he says.

[Marcus Parks]

We had to have a long time.

[Eddie Lee]

Maybe that might possibly be true. They do believe a couple of things. He said the jet car definitely exists.

[Marcus Parks]

See, I. Well, as we cover this, just know we Know, this story has been. On one hand, it's been debunked up to the moon. On the other hand with, you know, there's a lot of like, interesting tidbits, but I think in the very end there is stories in this that make a lot of sense. And there's. There's stuff in this. There's stuff in this. Yeah, that's real. Remember Orbits?

[Eddie Lee]

The gum?

[Marcus Parks]

The soda from the soda.

[Eddie Lee]

I remember the Orbit's gun.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's still very popular.

[Marcus Parks]

What was that one with the soda had all the gunk in it?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Surgeon.

[Eddie Lee]

No, that was cleansed.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, I remember balls. The one with that.

[Marcus Parks]

You.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There was the energy drink that had the grippers on it. That was awesome.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, Balls with the Z.

[Marcus Parks]

This episode is like a can of Orbit.

[Eddie Lee]

So.

[Marcus Parks]

It is Orbits. Thank you, Rob.

[Eddie Lee]

Okay. All right.

[Marcus Parks]

It's got floating stuff in it.

[Eddie Lee]

Okay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Some people have seen it, but no one believes that it exists.

[Marcus Parks]

Exactly. It's a regional delight.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, it's a chunky episode. Very chunky. So Bob was born in Florida in 1959 to parents unknown. Yeah. But was soon adopted by the Lazar family, Albert and Phyllis. Bob claims that he was not interested in UFOs or aliens as a child, but was rather more fascinated with science, propulsion and explosions. See, Bob is very much a DIY man in every way. He's a guy who spent his childhood building rockets and explosives. In fact, if you could compare Bob to anyone, I'd put him in the same ballpark as everyone's favorite rocket building occultist, Jack Parsons. Not the same league, but you know, they're playing the same sport.

[Marcus Parks]

It really is true. They seem to be like almost spiritual counterparts. Except Jack Parsons was a libertarian poet magician.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And Bob Lazar is a hardcore hot rod and pussy lady lady selling fucking whistleblower.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. If you maybe to put it into perspective, you could say that like, you know, Jack Parsons is like, you know, Ozzy Osbourne and Bob Lazar is like the best guitarist in your local bar band that they're in the same ballpark, they're doing the same sport, but they're.

[Marcus Parks]

Not great right here. Tippers, man, tippers. Dude, on Wednesday nights, man, that guy, this Jimmy Page, sometimes that's where you gotta stay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

If Stevie Ray Vaughn would have stayed in the blues clubs, he would have never gotten a helicopter crash.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, dude, that's true. He would have turned. That was his goal.

[Eddie Lee]

That's all he ever wanted, man. Well, like Jack Parsons, Bob was a guy who just liked the big boom. It didn't really matter whether that boom was blowing something up or propelling an object forward. And it also didn't really matter if the boom was also quite dangerous. Bob Lazar is a man who does not mind danger in any way whatsoever. As far as Bob's academic career goes, he graduated from high school in Long island in 1976 and claims that he attended Caltech the next year. This, unfortunately is where Bob's claims run into a wall because there's no record of Bob Lazar attending Caltech. Now Bob, of course, claims that the government erased his past in an effort to discredit and or intimidate him. But the facts point towards an explanation that is both far simpler and far more human. See, Bob graduated high school in the bottom third of his class, which makes acceptance into a prestigious school like Caltech unlikely. This also means that while Bob is brilliant, he was not a good student.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, bottom third in Long Island. That's a low bottom 30.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I mean, a Long island physicist, I just thought finds finds new way to make blue Curacao not taste like anything.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He did grow up around a lot of tall whites.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, that is true. Furthermore, Bob also claimed that he studied at Caltech under a physics professor named William Ducksler. Now, William Duck existed and he did confirm that Bob took one of his classes, but not at Caltech. Rather, Duxler was a professor at Pierce Community College here in Los Angeles, which very much does have records of Bob taking classes from 1976 until 1979. Lazar also claimed to have a master's degree from MIT, but there's no record of that either. Now, one might use all of this as a way to discredit everything Bob said, that it shows a pattern of lying. But this is exactly why I wanted to bring it up up as soon as possible. I think it is important to acknowledge that Bob Lazar is not truthful in everything he says. But I also don't think that he's a habitual liar. Instead, I think it speaks more towards Bob's insecurities. I think that Bob believed that if he gave himself more credibility, then his story would gain credibility as well. In other words, I think he believed that nobody would believe the self educated weirdo, but everyone would believe a guy with a degree from mit.

[Marcus Parks]

And to me retroactively it makes more sense is that when you look back and you're trying to explain when everyone's saying like, well, how the were you there working on this ufo, he's like, oh, well, I needed, I had to have all these Sort of accreditations. We don't realize in the world of the intelligence services. In the world, in this world they do whatever the they want.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And some of the stuff they like is people that don't have a whole bunch of shitty dumbass liberal education drops opt into their brains because guess what they're not good at making big bombs to blow up innocent soul. People in other countries just get super butt hurt about it because they literally classes where they learn that people cry that they knew they cry in Europe.

[Eddie Lee]

Right.

[Marcus Parks]

You're like, they're taught. He thinks in his mind. Bob Lazar is like let me blow Europe up. That's who you want.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Just because he didn't get a degree there doesn't mean he didn't go to classes. I mean when I went to community college I used to just like go to like some of the film classes and stuff at fsu. It'll just like hang out and watch. I would fall asleep. But you know, I wasn't, you know I didn't hand in papers or anything. But I did show up and sit there.

[Marcus Parks]

I remember you from this time period and you were frightened.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I had a thirst for knowledge.

[Marcus Parks]

I think that you were so frightening when you just walked into community class. I like to learn.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Sat there and just like just let him stay. Don't imagine he's a bear.

[Eddie Lee]

We definitely had guys at Texas Tech that would do the same thing where they just walk into a classroom and just be like, I don't even go to college here. You ain't going to tell nobody. Like no dude hang out. He's like good. I, you know, I just like it like cool. Hey man, keep, keep going. I'll see you next week. And then they just one day just suddenly disappear.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Never know what happened to them.

[Marcus Parks]

Too much education.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But they had to go back to their weed selling job. That's what I had to do. Yeah. I always go to Holden's film class and fall asleep and answer questions. It's great. But I never would have saw Harold and Mod otherwise. He was not as serious place. Well, yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

With Bob Lazar and his education like I like I think there are a lot of things in his personality that would make him very bad for education and make him. But would make him very good for the type work he ended up doing. He's an extraordinarily independent person. He has huge problems with authority.

[Marcus Parks]

He's a self starter.

[Eddie Lee]

He's a self starter. But I do think that, you know he does have that insecurity of Like, I have to give some sort of credence to myself. When in reality, the people who do run these things, things like, we all like to pretend, like these sorts of things that, you know that you have to have a degree and so. And so like, that these are like laws or something. They're not.

[Marcus Parks]

Jeffrey Epstein was hired to that very, very high end, that boarding school where he first started everything. Because the guy liked him.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

That's why he fucking hired him. No, it was not because he had any experience or anything. It's because he looked at Jeffrey Epstein and he's like, I like this slime ball. And I'm just gonna. I'm gonna do it because I. Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Now. While Bob Lazar was attending community college in Los Angeles, he also got a job at a company called Fairchild Electronics, which is where he was first introduced into the world of high technology. Fairchild Electronics manufactured equipment that utilized something called bubble memory. It's really fun to say bubble memory.

[Marcus Parks]

Bubble memory sounds like one of those fake things they do to shoes to make them cost more with bubble memory technology.

[Eddie Lee]

And as far as our researchers can tell, bubble memory was a technology that peaked in the early 80s and was used most effectively in powering arcade games like Gradius. Bob, however, did make enough money at Fairchild to buy his own home in Woodland hills, California, in 1977. And he also made enough money to begin experimenting with attaching jet engines to vehicles. Specifically, Lazar got ahold of a glue harel pulse jet engine, which was a simple mechanism with no moving parts, designed by a Russian American who wanted the public to have the ability to make their own lightweight, single passenger helicopters. All of this is 100 true.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, and we're doing so good with cars. Yeah. I think that we definitely need to add the fourth dimension to our travel.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I gotta say, as a orphan from Florida, I'm very inspired by this.

[Marcus Parks]

It is a nice. It's a dream. You could have led.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, the glue engine used propane, and its simple design meant that it could be built at home and attached to almost any vehicle. And so Balbazard did just that and actually attached a small jet engine to his bicycle in 1977.

[Henry Zebrowski]

How would that work? You'd have to get rid of the pedals.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Otherwise you just rip your legs up.

[Eddie Lee]

Exactly.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. I think he just needed something with wheels.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Now, perhaps it's due to the inherent danger of working with explosives, but as it was with Jack Parsons, Bob Lazar certainly spent his life associating with people that society might Consider, let's say, disreputable. Even though Bob always presented himself as the nerd's nerd. Case in point with Bob was his first wife, Carol Nadine Asher, who married Bob in the summer of 1980. Now, Carol was 17 years older than Bob, which all but guaranteed Bob a salty experience. Oh, yeah. But Carol also had a sordid history prior to meeting Bob that involved biker, amphetamines, kidnapping, and straight up murder.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You can say that about the Rolling Stones. Honestly, man.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you can. She just sounds hot. You know what I mean? That's hot as hell, dude.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All that kind of problems.

[Marcus Parks]

Dude, I'm looking at her, too. She's cute.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, she was cute, too. Wow. Pull it over. I can't see nothing. I'm trying to put it up here. It's right here.

[Marcus Parks]

Wait, no. Is that one? Is that her? Oh, that's a bad picture. Well, that's a bad picture. She's cute.

[Eddie Lee]

She's cute.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, she's cuter than Lori Valla.

[Eddie Lee]

That is true. Well, on June 12, 1974, Carol broke into the Oakland home of a man named Dennis Passaro with a Hell's Angels named Gary Burkett and Gary's wife. All three of them then engaged in activities that would result in Dennis's murder. See, Dennis, the victim, and Gary, the Hell's angel, had gotten into some arguments and some physical altercations in the prior to this home invasion. And it seems like Gary was hell bent on revenge.

[Marcus Parks]

I knew the best TV of the six was Joanie and Chachi. I know the best goddamn series I was hell of as happy was Joni and Chachi.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I liked M.

[Marcus Parks]

Now it's time to go.

[Eddie Lee]

I'd like to put in a vote for Mor and Mindy, if I may.

[Marcus Parks]

That's fine. That's fine. I'll allow it.

[Eddie Lee]

That's. I mean, Gary, an Oakland Hell's Angel. That's a rough fucking Hell's Angel.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah, it is.

[Eddie Lee]

So after Gary, his wife, and the future Carol Lazar broke into Dennis's home brandishing pistols, Carol held Dennis's friend Eugene Day at gunpoint in one room while the Hell's angel and his wife fatally stabbed and shot Dennis elsewhere in the house. Once Dennis was dead, his friend Eugene was handcuffed to a shelf. He was handed a syringe and told to inject himself with it. Rock rope. Yeah. But Eugene was clever. He did inject a small amount of the mysterious liquid into his arm, but he squirted the rest onto the floor when his captors Weren't looking. When the time was right, Eugene.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah. Oh. Oh, I'm dying. I'm squirt, squirt. Oh, I'm dying.

[Eddie Lee]

When the time was right, Eugene threw a wooden plaque at Carol, which enabled him to escape the house, run to a neighbor, and call 91 1. Eugene did survive alive, but surgery was needed to repair the damage done to his arm by this unknown caustic solution. In the syringe might have been Drano for all they know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Whatever got tossed on Ilya and Omar.

[Eddie Lee]

The other day, that was.

[Marcus Parks]

It was a vinegar. It was. Honestly. And she went right to punch him in the face. It was kind of cool.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She's pretty bad.

[Eddie Lee]

It was great. Now, Carol was picked up sleeping in her car after she got it stuck in a riverbed outside of Yuba City, California, the next day. Also had a fair amount of speed in her possession. But Carol did have a lifelong speed habit. Love the methamphetamine. And her compatriots are soon arrested as well. After pleading guilty to second degree murder, conspiracy, and false imprisonment, Carol was sentenced to five years in prison in 1975. And while we don't know how long she served, we do know that she was married to Bob Lazar by 1980.

[Marcus Parks]

Side Stories LPOTL gmail.com Tell me when you first wed your ex felon. When your. Your spouse, whoever it is, when you first. First time you guys hooked up after you got a job.

[Eddie Lee]

Jail.

[Marcus Parks]

How awesome was that?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, well, you can do conjugals.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. No, but, like, it's not the same.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's not the same. Yeah, because everyone's watching. I almost feel like a conjugal's, like, hotter because everyone's watching.

[Marcus Parks]

I wish I. Weird.

[Eddie Lee]

No, they got conjugals of trailers. Yeah. Yeah, that's. They got. No one's. No one's watching, though. You go out to the trailer. Yeah, I guess.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's no way. They're not watching.

[Eddie Lee]

They're probably watching you. That is true. But yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Couple.

[Eddie Lee]

I want to know how. I don't know. Like, we couldn't find out, like, how Bob and Carol actually met because he didn't meet her until after she was out of prison.

[Marcus Parks]

It just sounded like that the whole.

[Eddie Lee]

There was no prison date.com back then.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, we kind of talked about when we covered the Toy Box Killer when we did a revamp, and we were, like, talking about this idea that there was, like, many freaky communities.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And there's, like, freaky communities everywhere. And then there are freaky communities that go super dark, and then they're freaky communities that just kind of, like, peter out. It seems. I think it's mostly just, like, when everybody gets bored or whatever, when the kids get in. Annoying.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But it just seems that, yeah, he was in a freaky location.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. But I think it's just he was in a. An area where, like, I think once you get into the world of explosives and once you get into that and the other people who, like, that sort of danger and, like, that sort of thing are going to people who kind of live on the edge of life a little bit, you know, And Carol's going to show up to that party eventually.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What I picture is Carol gets out of prison, and she's got her bike that's been collecting dust. She's like, I got to get this thing fucking souped up. Maybe I toss a jet engine on it. I was like, I know a guy who puts jet engines on bikes. And I'm like, oh, my buddy Bob. Bob. Name? Laser. Holy.

[Marcus Parks]

Let me ask you a question. Hey, name's Bob. Just got out, huh?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I've been out for a little while. My name's Carol.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I got to say, Carol, whatever they did to you in jail, they must have done it, right. Yeah, they did.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Yeah, I got a new hole.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I like making new holes.

[Eddie Lee]

Draw from your grave.

[Marcus Parks]

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[Eddie Lee]

Now Bob claims that he spent the years after he got married to Carol obtaining a master's degree in physics from mit. But we know that isn't. What we do know is that Bob and Carol moved from California to Los Alamos, New Mexico in 1982. See out of all of the explosives that Bob loved in this world, none were more fascinating than nuclear blasts. And as we all know, Los Alamos was where Robert Oppenheimer and the rest of the Manhattan Project constructed the world's first atomic bomb. So while Bob may not have earned a degree from mit, he did in fact get a job at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico in 1982. He is on record for having worked there for eight months.

[Marcus Parks]

And we know that that means he had some form of clearance. So that already being done, the fact that you got some form of top secret clearance allows other levels of top secret clearance to be easier to get.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, I don't know. Did he get top secret clearance? Because not all of these places require top secret clearance.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, there's certain things that you're like, but then you find out certain things are you just, you get like a certain level of clearance just to sort.

[Eddie Lee]

Of be in there civilian clearance.

[Marcus Parks]

There's certain things you have to do. There's certain. Obviously goes all the way up to the top. And I think the way it work is just like you start on the very bottom level, which is what he's described. He does describe it accurately. You have a janitor. Yeah, well, he was working on like apparently he was working on particle accelerators. He was doing the stuff that he said he was doing. He was working in propulsion and that style of stuff.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

But it would be, it would be secret.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Now, Bob claimed that he didn't like working for the federal government because they wasted money and supplies. But ironically, his idea of protesting against this waste was in indeed quite wasteful. Bob said that he was a bit of a prankster at Los Alamos. So one day when he was bored, he asked a custodian for several large trash bags. Bob inflated those trash bags with excess helium discharged from a particle accelerator, then tied them off with tape used to seal hazardous materials. The tape read danger radiation in big scary letters. Bob then released the helium filled bags from the top of the hill that the laboratory was on and watched as the bags floated towards the town of Los Alamos below low. A town that was, not surprisingly, quite vigilant when it came to radiation.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I bet.

[Marcus Parks]

Super not into pranks about knives.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It is subjectively funny.

[Eddie Lee]

It's objectively a good, it's a good prank because eventually the bags landed and deflated in the parking lot of McDonald's, which caused quite a stir. Police were called and Los Alamos was questioned. But while Bob didn't get into any trouble, I think he may have proved with this story why he only lasted eight months at Los Alamos National Laboratory doesn't seem like a place that appreciates a prankster.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I would also like to place attention upon the idea of Bob Lazar as prankster. And that prankster doesn't necessarily mean liar. No, it means somebody that likes to have fun at other people's expense. And Bob Lazar is at the very core of him a prankster. Like, you know, I view this as a jackass fan. He's a guy that likes to with people. And so this is a.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a.

[Marcus Parks]

It's a part of his personality.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, he's the ufologies community's Ashton Kutcher. But when those bags landed at McDonald's, that's when they got the idea for Grimace.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, cute. Oh, I thought Grimace was a blob of old blood, not radiated trash.

[Eddie Lee]

The Los Alamos was out in the desert, which only gave Bob more room to test his further experiments in attaching jet engines to normal objects. I assure you, by the way way that all of this is true and is backed by multiple newspaper articles that were written long before Bob became the Area 51 guy. See, while Bob had been living in Southern California, he had installed a full custom made micro turbojet engine onto his Honda Civic hatchback. I've seen pictures and it seriously looks like he took one of the funnels from the bottom of a rocket and loaded it into the back of his tiny car. It looks insane.

[Marcus Parks]

It's dope.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's awesome. Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

He even got vanity plates. He. They said jet. You bet he needs it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It.

[Marcus Parks]

That's not cringy when it's on that.

[Eddie Lee]

And also in California, they're very common here.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm trying to get a vanity plate, man.

[Eddie Lee]

What are you going to. What's yours going to say?

[Marcus Parks]

Probably something like big dick. Thank you. Too real. No, no, Natalie doesn't want me to be found. You know, everybody's fine trying to find me.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Everyone really cares where you are is when everyone finds you and then just.

[Marcus Parks]

Doesn'T care where they just go like, where do I know you from?

[Eddie Lee]

You know what? You know what would make a really good vanity license plate for you? Booger boy.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, cute.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, with an oi, Booger boy.

[Marcus Parks]

I was gonna maybe do some. I mean, I got a couple ideas.

[Eddie Lee]

All right, well, since this was a.

[Marcus Parks]

Literal Jet secret idea. Cum sucker.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cum sucker.

[Marcus Parks]

They won't take it. I tried.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, since this is a literal jet engine attached to a Honda Civil Civic, it was of course incredibly and obnoxiously loud. Going off of a 2021 study that measured the sound of an engine comparable to the one Bob custom made. The jet that Bob affixed to his Honda Civic would have produced at least 120 decibels, which is right around the level that causes physical pain to humans.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hell, yeah, man. So what was ZZ Top at, man?

[Marcus Parks]

128.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Their beards are their hair, man.

[Eddie Lee]

Local cops, however, thought that the car was neat. So Bob never got a ticket for noise or for speed. This thing truly worked. Bob had installed fiberglass air scoops on the top and the sides of his Honda Civic to keep it on the ground. When he activated the jet engine, that's how powerful it was. It would have lifted itself off the ground. He would have lost total control. It ran on propane and kerosene and only ran for 30 seconds to a minute at a time. But when Bob took it out to the dry lake beds and got that Honda Civic up to 90 miles an hour, he'd flip the jet engine switch and take it to 200 miles per hour, man. Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Hondas are just built different.

[Eddie Lee]

They are.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And this is why the CRV is a far superior automobile.

[Marcus Parks]

And the RAV4 could suck our collective penises.

[Eddie Lee]

Okay?

[Marcus Parks]

It's not a good car. A Toyota, if you wanted. If you want to send your car into the center of the US Car government, get a Toyota. That's gonna fucking get that thing, won't. You could drive that through so many banks, so many fucking walls.

[Eddie Lee]

Really good. But since the car was so loud and unique, and I really can't stress enough that it was just a massive, conical jet engine shoved into a hatchback, the local newspaper, the Los Alamos Monitor, ran a story on Bob Lazar and his jet car in June of 1982, where all this shit was witnessed and verified. When asked why he made the jet car, Bob said simply, quote, there's no.

[Marcus Parks]

Real reason except for going fast.

[Eddie Lee]

Hell, yeah. And while the car did go incredibly fast, I think that this jet car really does show that while Bob might not have earned a degree from mit, he was still a genius who had the chops to work on mysterious technology.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, you say that, but I don't think a genius puts a jet engine in a car.

[Eddie Lee]

Geniuses, remember, geniuses are all about coulda, not shoulda.

[Henry Zebrowski]

A genius gets someone else to drive it.

[Marcus Parks]

You're talking about an executive producer.

[Eddie Lee]

The jet car is central to this story, not just because it shows that Bob Lazar has provable scientific bonafides. This is actually the point in the story when we finally Begin to turn slightly towards UFOs. See? The day after the article about Bob's car was published, Bob Lazar attended a talk at the Los Alamos facility hosted by Dr. Edward Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb. According to Bob, he was walking to the lecture when he happened to bump into Dr. Teller. Bob began gushing about Dr. Teller's contributions towards creating one of the most destructive bombs in existence. But Dr. Teller suddenly broke in and.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Said, quote, you're the man with the jet car.

[Marcus Parks]

I know you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You're the man with the jet car.

[Marcus Parks]

Also, you don't know he's Hungarian. He actually, he would be more like. He's based. The character Dr.

[Eddie Lee]

Strange Love is based on Teller.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Eddie Lee]

Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

And also the Edward Teller is the guy that came up with the concept of we would use nuclear bombs against hurricanes.

[Eddie Lee]

Wow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He could be a alien himself, man. Why else do you think his initials are E.T.

[Marcus Parks]

Also, did you know there was a legit plan? Plan to. This is a real plan that Edward Teller was to. Was. Was spearheading. And it almost happened in 1958. They were trying to create new ways to bring goods and services, new import exports into Alaska. So he had this proposed idea to use six hydrogen bombs to carve out a harbor in Alaska.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Just blow a hole in all coastline already. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And they were just going to blow it in. They were going to blow in a harbor. And then what they decided is that they did listen to. Obviously everyone was there, all the people that were living. We're all like, but this is our home. This is where our ancestrals are. And blah, blah, blah. And they didn't care. Right. Because they were like, no one's gonna be here anymore. You know? And then they said, but it was. The money ran out.

[Eddie Lee]

Ah.

[Marcus Parks]

So the money ran out in 1962. They worked on it for four years, and it almost happened.

[Eddie Lee]

Wow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

God, they totally would have just, like, gotten rid of the polarized caps. Dude, imagine. But do imagine radioactive grizzlies. That would be. That's awesome.

[Eddie Lee]

That's very cool. No, I mean, are technically in the Fallout games, they're called Yao Guai.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Really?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Mean fuckers. Well, back at Los Alamos, Dr. Teller had read the article about Bob Lazar. And after Bob and Dr. Teller chatted for a few minutes about Bob's personal experiments, the two men went their separate ways for the time being. Now, I think that Bob left an impression on Dr. Teller as being a man who could not only sink laterally, but who was also the type who could shake up a bunch of Ivy League eggheads if they needed shaken up.

[Marcus Parks]

He was sick of Ivy League eggheads. He's been dealing with them for a long time. And guess what they always told him. Marcus, you're fired. He always said no. Oppenheimer said, oh, you're too concerned with the wants and destruction of humankind. And he said no to him. And then he wanted to blow up Alaska to see what his moms could do. And they said no to him.

[Eddie Lee]

But Bob's never going to say no. Bob's going to say, let's do it.

[Marcus Parks]

How big do is the hole go?

[Eddie Lee]

Well, I'm sure Dr. Teller asked Bob about his education, as men like him are want to do. Where did you study? And I would imagine Bob wasn't yet lying about his credentials. That of course made his accomplishments all the more impressive. It's very impressive that he learned how to do all this shit from just a few years at a community college where he may or may not have even paid paid attention.

[Marcus Parks]

He's essentially self taught.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. This, I think, if it is indeed true, is what made Bob Lazar the perfect person to invite to Area 51 to possibly reverse engineer what could have been alien tech. But as we'll see, while Bob's personality made him a DIY genius, his personal life is what held him back. Bob Lazar would have quite the checkered life before he finally landed at Area 51. His timeline is vague, but after his eight months at Los Alamos, Bob left to found a company called Lazar Energy Systems, which was set up to, quote, design, develop and repair alpha radiation detection systems. Allegedly, Bob had gotten a government contract to work on this in conjunction with the Los Alamos lab. Because Los Alamos dealt with a lot of plutonium and plutonium gives off alpha radiation. But Lazar Energy Systems did not pay the bills fully. So Bob and his wife Carol also opened up a photo developing business with a storefront in Los Alamos and a. A more private location, if you know what I mean. Operating out of their second home in Las Vegas.

[Marcus Parks]

Throw all the big gaper pictures. Oh, that's nice. Spread them open.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, Bob.

[Marcus Parks]

Bob's Big old Lazar. Yeah, it's, it's Bob.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But the O is just an anus.

[Marcus Parks]

And that's his wife.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, the reason why I say there is, I, I mean this isn't known, of course, this is me speculating. But the reason why I think that they may have been developing private pictures in a more private location is because somewhere during all this Frenzied business founding. Bob and Carol also financially invested in a brothel in Reno called the Honeysuckle Ranch. The Honeysuckle's tagline, perhaps the best in the business, was more honey for the money.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's why my dad loves Reno.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, he does. Dude, I think your dad met Bob Lazarus.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's a chance if they needed shelving at the Honeysuckle Ranch, my dad would have sold it to them.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, where they gonna put all the looby, right? You know, I do believe that they. Photo developing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Very alien friendly.

[Marcus Parks]

It is. But also photo developing is one of those, you know, we joke about, you know, we always said about how Polaroid cameras have seen more murder and rape than any single soldier ever. Yeah, that's kind of in my mind. Like, photo developing is like a side project for anybody involved in the most twisted.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, I mean, it's Bob Lazar could, if he is indeed involved with like some shady people. Like, it does pay to have a guy, of course, you know, I got a guy. Like, oh, man, I can never get these photos developed. Like, I got a guy, he. He'll do it for you.

[Marcus Parks]

And those old girly papers that used to get. Right. Because they used to like kind of what you'd see in Twin Peaks world. Yeah, there was stuff like that where they'd have girl pictures in there. So I imagine if you are working, if you're a girl's manager, that's what. That's a nice way to say pimp. If you're her manager, what you do is you'd probably want to get some good eight by tens. You'd probably want to get her in some lingerie. And then you're going to want to do that all on your own, right? I don't know that from experience.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You worked in a photo lab?

[Marcus Parks]

I did.

[Eddie Lee]

You worked at a photo lab for like years, right? I did, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

How many you see? A lot of naughties.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, the. Well, we've talked about this many times. We've talked about the old lady in the red hat on the toilet. We've talked about. But my favorite was the lady that had her open vagina and she wrote all around it, wish you were here for her boyfriend.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And was she the one that handed it to you? Just a big smile.

[Marcus Parks]

I'll take it on Tuesday.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Make one for yourself. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

I was just like, no, thank you. This is a bit advanced for me now.

[Eddie Lee]

The Honeysuckle Ranch had already been open for 30 years by the time Bob and Carol got involved. Bob claimed that he Bought it outright for $1 million and left Carol in charge of the day to day operations.

[Marcus Parks]

Definitely.

[Eddie Lee]

It does, however, seem like the more likely scenario was that Bob and Carol were merely investors in the Honeysuckle ranch, and they used the Honeysuckle as passive income.

[Marcus Parks]

They were angel donators.

[Eddie Lee]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Angel donated.

[Eddie Lee]

Sadly, though, Bob hit a big rough Patch in 1986. His wife, Carol, who was, as I said, 17 years older than Bob, she'd been hiding a pancreatic cancer diagnosis from Bob for months. So rather than wait for the cancer to take her, Carol took matters into her own hands. In April of 1980, while Bob was out running errands one day, Carol pulled their car into the garage of their Los Alamos home, closed the door, and slowly died from carbon monoxide poisoning. The story, however, is a little more complicated than Bob makes it out to be. When you compare all the government records surrounding it. See, Bob implies that Carol knew that she was going to die and therefore propped up an employee at their Los Alamos photo processing lab named Tracy Merck as Bob's new wife.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, wow, that's so nice of her.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, you see it all the time in Grey's Anatomy. Me. You know, like someone's. A wife is dying and, you know, they're setting up, like, oh, don't. I want you to promise me that.

[Marcus Parks]

You'Re not gonna live alone.

[Eddie Lee]

Promise me you'll find love again.

[Marcus Parks]

I just feel like my. When I'm dying, Natalie ain't touching anybody.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

No one's touching anybody. No one finds love again.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. My last act in alive is just gonna be adopting like 20 dogs.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, Bob claimed that after Carol died, he allowed some time to pass before he did indeed marry Tracy Merck. There is, however, a marriage certificate between Bob Lazar and Tracy Ann Merck recorded at the We've Only Just Begun wedding chapel in Las Vegas. That marriage certificate is dated April 19, 1986. Carol's death certificate, meanwhile, dates her death three days after Bob's wedding to Tracy. Which means that this might have been an embarrassing or admittedly extremely complicated chapter of Bob's life that he might have wanted to paper over a little bit.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Murky waters indeed, Carol. Honestly.

[Marcus Parks]

That's a real man right there, huh? Carol Lazar is a real dude, dude. What are you talking about? Killed a Hells angel, robbed a bunch.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Of people she killed with a hell, ran a brothel.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Life for her life, right? Then, like a real man. Gutted cancer, didn't tell goddamn soul, and then offed herself. That's awesome, dude. That's what dudes do, man. It's hard. It's hard for a person to do, man.

[Eddie Lee]

Sure. I mean, half of that didn't happen, but fine.

[Marcus Parks]

Dude, she took cancer and she's like, yeah, yeah, I'm a cancer. Sick of me.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Does anyone think that Bob killed her?

[Eddie Lee]

No.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Eddie Lee]

No, no, that, like, that's. There's no suspicion whatsoever under Bob. Like, there, there's nothing crazy here. There's. There's. It's just. It just seems like the story was probably very, very complicated and their life was very, very complicated.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. It's more like, did she commit suicide and then he ran off with this chick? Or was he already sort of while his wife was sick? Was he setting up a cheating thing with another woman and then did he marry her? Like, kind of like, oh, you know, I. I thought we were separated. And then, Then she committed suicide. We don't know.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, we. Yeah, we. We really don't know. It's just the. Yeah, the dates between the, the, the suicide and the marriage are. They. They don't line up with what Bob says they are.

[Marcus Parks]

It's complicated.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I could say if she found wedding certificate that might lead her to doing.

[Marcus Parks]

Something harsh, she wouldn't be angry. I'm surprised she didn't kill him. She was lucky she didn't shoot him in the fucking head.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, if that's indeed how it happened, there might also have been some sort of agreement between all of them. They. There might have been something where Carol's like, go, go be happy. Go do it. You know, I'm not going to last too much longer. Anyway, we don't know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Did Joe Rogan ask?

[Marcus Parks]

Literally, he's the worst interviewer who's ever lived.

[Eddie Lee]

Jesus Christ.

[Marcus Parks]

Like, not to be anything. I've seen other episodes like, his other episodes. I'll be everything.

[Eddie Lee]

Like, what the fuck? How did this happen?

[Marcus Parks]

I don't know.

[Eddie Lee]

How did this happen?

[Marcus Parks]

It's just. You just got to sit. Just. We work. We've always worked too hard. We just always have worked too hard.

[Eddie Lee]

Now, interestingly, while Tracy Merk was not a criminal on Carol's level, she was still indeed a conviction. Convicted criminal. Bob, it seems, had a type. As for Tracy's crimes, she'd been working at the Los Alamos national bank when one of her co workers turned her on to a scam where they'd forge withdrawal slips to steal money from wealthy clients who didn't pay close attention to their accounts.

[Marcus Parks]

Because the thing about rich people, they never look at their money.

[Eddie Lee]

No Never, Never, never.

[Marcus Parks]

Closer than you could ever. That is a never. Listen to a teller tell you that forever.

[Eddie Lee]

Tracy then brought in two friends to help. A guy named Perry Handy and another gentleman who is known only by the name of Zoom. What this little forgery ring didn't know, however, was that the bank employee who'd introduced Tracy to the scam was actually an undercover agent investigating theft at the bank.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Isn't that entrapment?

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, but they do it anyway. They do it all the time. They do it. They did it then so many guys.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She wouldn't have committed the crime if they didn't present it to her.

[Eddie Lee]

Tell it to 9 11. Like there's so many guys. Hey, 9 11.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I saw what you did.

[Marcus Parks]

You knew that they were going to.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Get in planes and fly them in.

[Marcus Parks]

The powers you're welcome nothing. Yeah, and aren't you thankful for the oil? Ra four cucks.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh my God, it's so funny. Everyone is like, gas is cheaper lately. He's like, yeah, we just stole Venezuela. It better be cheaper.

[Eddie Lee]

We're fucking criminals. Yeah, we are a country of fucking criminals. You did this to us. What I mean to say is that after 9 11, the FBI and the CIA entrapped so many guys who never would have even come close to planning anything. They convinced guys to involve themselves in plots just so they can get more arrest.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, one of my big conspiracy theories is that that like left wing whatever terror attack they quote unquote stopped in Los Angeles was exactly that. They had propped him. Him up.

[Eddie Lee]

Turtle island or whatever.

[Marcus Parks]

They had propped him. They had set him up. They had propped him up. They arrested them. Just to say, look, left wing guys are doing it too.

[Eddie Lee]

Sure. Well, Tracy was of course fired and arrested for forgery in December of 1985. But Perry Handy apparently knew Bob and Carol Lazar before Carol died. Carol, you see, had never quite kicked the speed, so her life always had a bit of shade to it. As a result, since Bob and Carol were very much second chance types, they gave Tracy Merk a job at Lazar's photo lab. Within just four months, Carol was dead and Bob and Tracy were married. Although I. As I said, I don't believe that anything nefarious went down. Rather, I think that these are all just the inner workings of the personal lives of shady people who all live their lives like they're side characters in a James Crumbley white trash noir novel. It's insanely interesting, but it is filthy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, Murky lasers indeed.

[Marcus Parks]

Stop interrupting me. It's me, Zoom. Stupid Slow Talking Morris. Where you come with the withdrawals list?

[Eddie Lee]

Hey, Perry.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hey.

[Marcus Parks]

Think we're gonna get busted?

[Eddie Lee]

It's.

[Marcus Parks]

That's me. Slow Talking Morris.

[Eddie Lee]

In early 1989, Bob Lazar apparently decided it was time to get back into the super science game. So he became involved with a defense contractor with the typically innocuous name of EG&G.E, g and G actually had a long history of working on various nuclear weapons projects. But by the late 80s, they had a contract with the Atomic Energy Commission for various weapons development projects taking place in. In Nevada. Now, this is just speculation, but it seems like Bob's encounter with Dr. Teller concerning Bob's jet car a few years earlier seems like that's a part of what got Bob's application picked up when Bob began sending resumes around to various contractors in the late 80s. And so Bob had his first interview with E, G and G in January of 1989, where he met a military official named Dennis Mariani. Dennis would go on to act as a kind of government chaperone and intermediary for Bob as Bob navigated the world of extraterrestrial technology and everything that supposedly came with it. Now, Bob thought that the first interview did not go well, but when they brought him back for a second time, EG&G allegedly told him that he was actually overqualified for the position for which he'd applied.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's amazing.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I've always been holding out for management.

[Eddie Lee]

Instead, EG and G thought that Bob would be a good fit as a senior physicist in what they called the Special Project Division. Now, Bob, of course, jumped at the chance because in his words, EG and G had a long and successful track record working with the biggest of bangs, nuclear weapons. And so Bob took the job and was eventually told to show up at McCarran Airport in Las Vegas, where a plane would take him to EG&G's Nevada Test Site. This flight to Nevada is what's known as a JANET flight, which is the unofficial name for classified and unmarked passenger aircraft operating for the US Air Force. Locals near EG&G Nevada test site joked that Janet stood for just another non existent terminal, J A N E T, because the government routinely denied that the site even existed, even though planes were constantly landing and taking off.

[Marcus Parks]

And if you're flying in and out of Vegas, you know the. This does exist. And you see them, they are planes or white planes with no numbers on them. They have an orange line traced around their middle, and they don't have any demarcations on them. And when normally like you see like, it's kind of amazing if you land early enough in Vegas and you see them loading those, those planes, it's like the maids and the people working at the commissary and there's all these people. So you see this like line of little lady, little old ladies lining up to go up onto these flights to take them into like all of these like top secret areas where they're the janitors and the people that work at the. The food court and they're the people that do all the stuff that are. That is not. They have to have top secret clearance, but they don't see any of the stuff.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I just had an epiphany. This is why Henry likes Vegas. Yeah, because of all the stupid alien that's happen an all around it.

[Marcus Parks]

I love that Vegas. Everything has its price. I love that they don't lie about it.

[Eddie Lee]

And when Bob arrived to McCarran Airport for that first Janet flight, he was met by Dennis Mariani, who told Bob they were going to be landing at a location that has been known by many names. Over the years they've called it the Skunk Works, Water Tow, Paradise Ranch, Dreamland and Groom Lake. But to the public, this location will always be known as Area 51.

[Marcus Parks]

It's a focus, dude. But guess what, man? I still think the princess was in another castle.

[Eddie Lee]

Whoa. You don't think there was the UFOs there?

[Marcus Parks]

Los Alamos?

[Henry Zebrowski]

You think the UFOs are where they all the radiation was?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That seems like a horrible idea.

[Marcus Parks]

Los Alamos makes sense, only just because it was a literal city built to hide secrets. So it actually kind of makes sense that you could hide bigger objects inside of Los Alamos.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But doesn't Area 51 go down like half a mile?

[Marcus Parks]

We don't know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I thought we do know.

[Marcus Parks]

We don't know.

[Eddie Lee]

Not really. No. You're just thinking of Independence Day.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, okay.

[Eddie Lee]

That's right. That's what you see. That's what it does. That's what the Independence Day does, is that it takes that area, like that idea of Area 51. And now in your mind, that's what Area 51 is.

[Marcus Parks]

Steven Still, Goldberg was a plant.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, I mean, Steven had nothing to do with area with Independence Day. Roland Emmerich, who should be on a list. That man has blown up the White House more times than our current president.

[Eddie Lee]

We like it.

[Marcus Parks]

As a country. We like it.

[Eddie Lee]

The Area 51 was a known quantity in the 1980s to certain types of enthusiasts, like Bob Lazar. Because Bob did naturally have an interest in UFOs. The guy was a fucking Star Trek Trek nerd who built his own rockets. Of course he knew about Area 51. Bob did, however, say that he sort of spoiled Dennis's fun by acting unsurprised when Dennis told Bob where they were going that day. Because Dennis was apparently expecting Bob to freak out a little bit when he said, hey, we're going to Area 51.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, of course. It's like take saying like your kids were going to Disneyland.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He thought it was the beginning of Jurassic Park. Yeah. No one gave a like, oh, I've seen dinosaurs.

[Marcus Parks]

He's like, yeah, yeah. Which ones can I. Yeah, which one's got tits?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, it's just a big ass zoo.

[Eddie Lee]

To give you a brief history of how Area 51 came to be what it is today. The site was built in 1955 as opposed to the permanently top secret facility it's often billed as. The construction of Area 51 was fully announced by the Atomic Energy Commission. They even sent out press releases publicly. The government and the Air Force claimed that Area 51 was the site of a bunch of high altitude weather tests. Tests that's sort of their go to. The real purpose of Area 51, however, was the most classified program of the era. This was where the military built the U2 spy plane, which was one of the most effective tools the United States had to spy on the Ruskies during the Cold War. My uncle actually flew U2s in the 80s and 90s and had quite a bit of fun playing with my emotions throughout the 1990s. After I found out that the U2 was developed at Area 51, I asked him about it and he would say, all will be revealed in March.

[Marcus Parks]

See, these guys are all like this.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, they're all like that. They all do that. Yeah. He would play with me.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I imagine he would have said, I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

[Marcus Parks]

That's what we have found. Looking for that. Actually that's more of a statement leading towards us finding practical sort of empirical evidence of UFOs. And in that way, Bono was correct. Yes, we still have not found what we're looking for, but. But it will be a bloody Sunday when we do.

[Eddie Lee]

But concerning Bob Lazar, the U2 angle actually supports his story. It makes sense that EG&G had business at Area 51. EG&G was the company that hired Bob Lazar. EG&G had in fact supported the development of stealth technologies for Lockheed Martin, they're involved. They're in the, they're in the business.

[Marcus Parks]

And I will have a little bit of a tale for you towards the end of the episode that will also point why it actually kind of makes sense that he would be at Area 51.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I also heard like people like you know, you know obviously, you know I don't know what to believe but I, I've, I've heard a lot of people say that Lockheed Martin's got a craft.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Believe nothing and everything.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's cool.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah man.

[Marcus Parks]

It's all eyes.

[Eddie Lee]

Well in the UFO World Area 51 became a part of the narrative in the 1970s when UFO researchers obtained documents that may or may not have been a part of a massive disinformation campaign. Campaign. These were known as the Majestic 12 documents. And they supposedly detailed the inner workings of an organization that recovered crashed alien crafts.

[Marcus Parks]

Back in the day they believed that there was the most secret of secret clearances you could get was called Majestic. It went all the way up to. Was it George H. Bush's senior's grandfather Vanne Bush.

[Eddie Lee]

Vandervort Bush.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Pre Preston.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Pre Preston. These guys were a part of these guys this idea idea that President Eisenhower knew that we were having. We were going to have this sort of essentially agreement with aliens. We were going to give them a certain amount of human beings so they could experiment on in exchange for technology. And the Majestic were the people that were sort of dealing with the alien slash as a part of a super secret crash retrieval program which is then people are saying that Majestic actually never went after crashed UFOs at those UFO were actually given by alien like entities and alien intelligences for them to work with. And Stanton Friedman our favorite big bellied ufologist. Right. The rest in peace. This was sort of his. Sort of like his war. This is what he brought out. But it really seems that it was a bunch of disinformation that now we know that what they did was. It's not really discredit. I'm starting to find out other things too.

[Eddie Lee]

It's more like muddle in the watt, muddy in the water letters. Mercian.

[Marcus Parks]

You know what I also say I'm starting to realize too it's not just to confuse it is to see where information goes from point A to Z.

[Eddie Lee]

Sure. That's that.

[Marcus Parks]

That is very helpful to put markers in the information. So what they'll do is say something. There are specific words. So like the Majestic papers were probably a series of planted pieces of information. To see how far they go out. To basically see how secure are we.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And.

[Eddie Lee]

And to also see, like, how does fringe information spread? Who does it, who does it, who does it spread through? How fast does it spread?

[Marcus Parks]

What does it affect? What does it affect? Like, does it make them. Does it make people go crazy? And then there's two reasons why they do this. Is it because it's all true? And they're trying to make. Trying to see how we'll react. Right. When. When we find out that there's an alien race that can control our whole reality and can go and it's way past us.

[Eddie Lee]

Right.

[Marcus Parks]

Or just the other way of how can extreme lies to change people's brains?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Because if it's a lie, it doesn't matter if it really spreads because it's not true.

[Marcus Parks]

Exactly.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Yeah. But what does matter is studying how it spreads, how far it spreads.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Fucking yeah. And who was the leak?

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, yeah. Who, who, who gets it out? Yeah, yeah. So there, there's a lot of different. A lot of different explanations for what Majestic 12 might actually be. Yeah. But it's definitely not real.

[Marcus Parks]

It's just, it's not real in this way. And that's what I will always. Well, come back to. And I' this, at the end of the episode, I have a whole rundown.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. It does not, let's just say Majestic. The Majestic 12 documents do not tell the truth. We'll say that. Now, even though Majestic 12 is probably disinformation, it is a fact that the air force seized 90,000 acres of land around Groom Lake in 1984, expanding Area 51. Armed guards began patrolling Area 51 around the same time, and local ranchers were told to stay out or risk being shot and killed. This allegedly was the environment Bob arrived into when his first JANET flight landed at Area 51 in 1989. Now, I don't want to use the word allegedly dozens of times here, so from here on out, I'm just going to tell the story as Bob tells.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Allegedly.

[Marcus Parks]

Just put a fool. Like, put it allegedly over this episode. Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Now, according to Bob, when he and Dennis landed at Area 51, they were loaded into a navy blue school bus that took them to an office complex tucked in into a mountain. This complex, Bob would later learn, was known as Area S4. And it would be here at S4 that Bob would claim to work on alien technology. Now, Bob pedantically maintains that he technically didn't work at Area 51, because while S4 is within the Area 51 compound. Area S4 is actually 15 miles south of what would be officially considered official real area 51.

[Marcus Parks]

You're not helping.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It does make it sound more real, though.

[Marcus Parks]

It does, it does.

[Eddie Lee]

But Even so, area S4 was suitably creepy. Completely devoid of any signs of human life, like plants or photos on desks. Bob said that the only decoration in the entire S4 office was a picture of a saucer UFO with a caption ominously saying, they're here. Ooh.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I imagine it was over a doorway and they all kind of slapped it as they went by like that.

[Marcus Parks]

Or Dan, these guys, these guys are all just so. It's like, it's like God knows what's real and what.

[Eddie Lee]

God knows. Yeah. Now, Bob's first day at S4 was spent doing paperwork for his hopeful security clearance, Majestic, which you mentioned, majestic clearance was 22 levels higher than what any civilian was supposed to be able to get. That's Q clearance. But Bob was still annoyed at the whole process. He called it a pain in the ass and felt that the people in the room who were giving him these insane privileges were too self important and arrogant. He said he made jokes during the process to not knock him down a peg and amused himself. But he only gave one example of one of his jokes. He said that when Dennis took his photo for his ID card, Bob said, quote, what?

[Marcus Parks]

No, say cheese, you're fired. Pulls his gun at, you know, I mean, no one ever knew you were here.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, well, Bob's just like. He refused to react. And it's like, no, he didn't refuse to react.

[Marcus Parks]

It's an excuse.

[Eddie Lee]

You're not taking this seriously.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And the joke's not that great.

[Eddie Lee]

It's a bad joke. And Bob's inability to take any of this seriously might be part of the reason why he never actually received Majestic security clearance. If Majestic security clearance is even a fucking thing.

[Marcus Parks]

We don't think it is.

[Eddie Lee]

He did, however, earn himself quite a bit of surveillance because apparently one does have to prove themselves just a bit if they want to be included on projects of this magnitude. Doesn't matter if it is alien tech or not. You're still in one of the most secure locations. Locations in the world.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You're still like on a job that literally some of the biggest geniuses on the face of the planet would kill to be at. And you are just given this, you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Can'T have a big mouth and be a cop.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, like much less working on alien technology.

[Marcus Parks]

It's hard.

[Eddie Lee]

Now, even though Bob says he Never got Majestic clearance. He was still taken to a small office shortly after being hired so he could read through a, a stack of files. Dennis wanted Bob to get caught up as quickly as possible on his assignment. That assignment was Project Galileo. From what Bob said, Project Galileo was tasked with reverse engineering a propulsion system from an extraterrestrial craft in the hopes that they could duplicate the technology using materials found on Earth. Bob believed they'd been trying to do this for a while and that Bob was brought in as a pair of fresh eyes. Bob also came across a recent file that contained a vague description of an accident, accidental explosion that had occurred while scientists had been trying to dismantle an extraterrestrial propulsion system. Bob believed that someone had tried cutting through one of the alien reactors with a plasma cutter and had died in the process. Bob also suspected that he had been hired to replace the person who had been killed in this accident.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, there was like an outline of a man fried on the wall. Like, this is your seat.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Just so you know, it's still a of war. He I, I, that's kind of like one of those things that makes inner sense, though. Like, of course then you'd use a nobody to replace the guy that you just killed. You can't be wasting all these officially accredited scientists that people would be looking for, they'd be like, oh, so they stole this, like the most powerful. You remember we talked about it. It shows it. It's in. When we did the whole, when we did Oppenheimer, it's the, when the Manhattan Project, remember that was a part of the issue was that they were having problems with the Nazis, understanding that people were leaving certain educational positions to go work at Los Alamos. And so you could kind of using reverse counter espionage, you can kind of see, oh, they're working on something. If there's a brain drain from all these big places.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So it's great.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, use this fucking local loser. Let him explode.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, I mean, you don't want to use the guy who might actually like, come up with the weapon that could win the Cold War, like the guy who's working on like the Star wars defensive system, which is, that's what Bob always wanted to work on. He always wanted to work on Star Wars.

[Marcus Parks]

That was Edward Teller's thing.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, but Bob, but that's the thing is that you're going to have your Yale guys, your Princeton guys working on that. Bob Lazar, the, the, the guy who's working on the project in which he might blow up at any second. That's you send the jet car guy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, Bob's an auto mechanic. He's not a designer.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, from your grave.

[Henry Zebrowski]

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[Marcus Parks]

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[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know what a time it is. It's time to take your wardrobe and kick it up a notch. You know, you want to look good, you want to look really good, you got to go to Quints. That's right. Ooh, you love your Quince. I went to Quince recently. Love going to Quince. Had a good time over there. And you know what I bought? I did something crazy. I did something I didn't even know was possible. I bought a Legend Vineyard exclusive Napa Red Blend, 2022. Very expensive bottle of wine, cheaper on quints. It's very nice. I had to show my ID when it came came to the door, but hey, I opened it up and oh, baby, it worked. So go to Quince. Let them take care of you in more ways than one. You don't just have to look pretty. You can feel pretty, too, when you slam that wine down your throat. So go to Quince. Enjoy your life. Be a better person. You know what else I did? I did Julie a favor and I bought her a 100% organic cotton waffle cropped sweater tank because I love looking at her arms and I love looking. Looking at her neck. And now Quince helps me do that. Thank you, Quince. I really appreciate you refresh your wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.com last for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada, too. That's q-u I n c e.com last free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com last now Bob was not explicitly.

[Eddie Lee]

Told that he was working on alien tech. He did note the use of the term extraterrestrial while perusing the files, but Bob presumed that it simply referred to something beyond his security clearance. That opinion, however, changed when Bob learned about the compartmentalized divisions working on the alien tech. While Bob had been assigned to propulsion, he learned that there were other teams working on other aspects of the technology, although these teams were not allowed to work together, share information, or even communicate with one another. As far as the other divisions went, Project Looking Glass was tasked with dealing with the materials the alien craft was made of, while Project Sidekick was looking into the weaponry.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, Project Looking Glass is also the. That was what brought us the chronometer at some point, not the. The chronovisor.

[Eddie Lee]

Oh, really?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Project Looking Glass. That was one of the big things.

[Eddie Lee]

So that means that the Big results of the Chronovisor. Okay, so Enrico Ferreira, Jeremy and Werner Von Braun were also involved in Project Looking Glass.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. They were in charge. And then Project Looking Glass. The problem is that they were looking into the future and all the elites, what they would discover is that they couldn't control the future, but they could use this Looking Glass technology to test what would happen depending on certain choices in the future. And eventually the elites were getting frustrated because they couldn't get past how emotionally evolved we all would come in 2012.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

You remember that, like how every. In 2012 when we all became emotionally involved and everything like got better just in the world.

[Marcus Parks]

Ch. We became a utopia. Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

It just kept getting better and better every year after that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean, I was so. I was such a better person back then.

[Marcus Parks]

No, I'm saying no. But you remember the utopia that we're in now, the free energy world that we're in. The elites got so frustrated that they couldn't stop us from going woke that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They canceled the Project Looking Glass. Also figured out that Brandy was. Was a fine girl.

[Marcus Parks]

She was what a good wife she would be.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Unfortunately, Project Looking Glass was married to the sea.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. And only had just Brandy.

[Marcus Parks]

I just realized that whole song's just about a big old. Hey.

[Eddie Lee]

No, it's not. No, it's not.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She's friendly.

[Eddie Lee]

What's wrong with you?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Jesus.

[Eddie Lee]

My God.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Good God. He smirks. You.

[Marcus Parks]

Is this going to be as upset as people got when I wanted to put Finn Wolfard on my death pool?

[Henry Zebrowski]

You did.

[Eddie Lee]

You did.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, but I chose the other guy. I chose the Pope.

[Eddie Lee]

Okay, okay. Well, this is far more upsetting.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Brandy is a fine. She's fine.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm joking. I'm joking. She's a beautiful woman. I'm certain she was fine.

[Eddie Lee]

What blew the lid open for Bob Lazar was when he was looking through the stack of folders and came upon one simply titled Biology.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I love cock pictures.

[Marcus Parks]

A one, a two, a three.

[Henry Zebrowski]

How many licks to get to the center?

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, one just took the one.

[Eddie Lee]

Now, Bob fully acknowledges that he had not met the clearance requirements at all to see the materials contained within the Biology folder. And if this folder did indeed exist, it might have been given to Bob by accident. The only way it could have gotten there, see, within this folder, allegedly, were two. I know, I wasn't going to say it, but I think it's important here.

[Henry Zebrowski]

To say allegedly, allegedly.

[Eddie Lee]

Two black and white photos of a humanoid torso with the head and limbs crossed out of the Frame. The torso had a T shaped incision like one might see in autopsy. And the gray white skin of the creature was pulled back to display a quote, undifferentiated mass of tissue that did not resemble human organs. Bob also claimed that there were handwritten notes on the photos in which previous viewers had expressed astonishment at how the mass of fleshy materials had served as this being's energy. Wow. The cow.

[Marcus Parks]

Are we gonna it in this, Johnson?

[Eddie Lee]

Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

How will it eat Takis? I don't know how we'll ship it new Doritos. We will have to find a way for it to eat food. Wow.

[Eddie Lee]

The kicker, though, was a further note saying that the alien craft that had brought these beings to Earth had originated from a planet in the Zeta reticulized star system some 39 light years from Earth. That, that kind.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, this story got very clear.

[Eddie Lee]

Over the years the moment that he said the moment the words, I know Zeta Reticuli exists. It is a star system that does exist. But the moment you bring up the words Zeta Reticuli there is a massive segment of the population. They're gone. They're done, right? They're done as soon as they hear the words Zeta Reticuli.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What if this was him getting a part of the Majestic 12? What if this was the misinformation handed to him to see if he would give it out to other people running as someone who could be helping?

[Eddie Lee]

You're starting to get it, Edward. You're starting to get it.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, think about this, right? Imagine again, this. We're always going to take it from the world of this is totally real. You have a UFO in a hangar. You don't know what is it. Is right, let's say what you've done now is that's mysterious and just easy enough as it is, but just saying we have some mysterious new craft. That's a way that could be flipped a bunch of different ways. So you xeno him zenu the. You hand him a bunch of fake information and say, now, what do you do now? Now, like, okay, so we told you all about it's all aliens.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yep.

[Marcus Parks]

This is all aliens. Definitely not stuff we've made. Definitely nothing we stole from Russia.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

It's all alien. Aliens.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Now, once Bob was done reading the files, he was introduced to his lab partner, Barry Castillo, batting fourth for the.

[Marcus Parks]

Los Alamos P. Absolutely. I am absolutely thrilled to be here. Area 51. Thank you very much. To the people they manage and Area 51. To my small country, allow me to play here. And I want to say hello to.

[Eddie Lee]

All of my friends in San.

[Marcus Parks]

Barry.

[Eddie Lee]

Castillo more or less told Bob, like, yeah, you're here to replace the guy who got killed fucking around with the alien reactor. But in the end, Bob says that he and Barry bonded because, wow, I didn't.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, it's all in there.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We're standing on the shoulders of San Francisco giants.

[Eddie Lee]

He and Barry bonded because neither one of them were military. Once introductions were made, Barry showed Bob the technology that they were supposed to reverse engineer. They threw him in the deep end. Day one. Basically, the mechanism that they were working on had two parts, an emitter and a reactor. The emitter was a pewter colored cylinder about the size of a garbage can, totally smooth with no seams or bolts. The object they called the reactor was also pewter colored, but it was more of a half sphere, about the size of a basketball sitting on a, a plate. Sitting on top of that sphere was a smaller sphere that could be removed like a cap. And to demonstrate what the object could do, Barry removed the cap and placed a small copper colored triangle shaped disk under the smaller sphere, then put the cap back on. Barry then turned on the reactor and told Bob to try to walk towards it. Bob was surprised to find that he couldn't even approach the object because an unseen force was pushing him away, as if he and the reactor were two magnets of the same pole. This, Barry explained, was the whole function of the reactor. Basically, the reactor produced anti gravity. It pushed itself away from any object that approached it. This technology could be harnessed to produce a gravity well in which a spaceship uses the power of gravity to pull itself through space, rather than how we do it, which is pushing the craft forward with rockets.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. The analogy he used was if you have a bunch of billiard balls on a bed and then you throw a bowling ball in the center of it, all the billiard balls will go towards the, the bowling ball.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm the bowling ball.

[Marcus Parks]

You're the bowling ball.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Let's use a billiard ball.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm the guy kissing on the bed. No, the idea is that you create like a hole in gravity. So it's like falling like you're creating an artificial, artificial like scenario where the UFO is falling at the, is falling at the speed of gravity. But then because gravity is entirely different force, it also creates a sort of reality, bending kind of atmosphere around the object that bends light, which means why you can't see it half the time and also why it has that weird wobble is because you're like looking at a thing that's kind of like we can't. Literally, we can't see it. Light is not getting through the thing around it.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, basically the idea with the bowling ball is that, you know, if you drop a bowling ball on a mattress and you push on another point in the mattress, then the bowling ball is going to roll towards that point and the point that you're pushing down. That's the gravity well itself, you know, so basically the gravity well, like you create a point in which the object is constantly being pulled towards it at incredible speeds.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Which.

[Eddie Lee]

That's how supposedly how this technology, this alien technology worked.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That is how the gravity is essentially fuel.

[Eddie Lee]

Yes, exactly. Now, Bob claims that on his second night at Area S4, his military handler Dennis took him to a hangar to give Bob a better idea of how all this fit together. In that hangar, Bob saw several cylindrical UFOs, but these all had American flags on the fuselages.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Dude, I always thought that's how Game of Thrones should have ended.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Fucking flying saucers with American flags in and everyone just comes out with AR15.

[Marcus Parks]

My God, dude, that's exactly how that, like, it's like all of a sudden she's like Ted Cruz with all these robot soldiers being like, sorry, guys, I just brought hate to Westero.

[Eddie Lee]

Y' all got butter here. Yeah, butter. My daughter loves butter. Uhoh.

[Marcus Parks]

The weather's bad. I gotta get on a plane.

[Eddie Lee]

When Bob walked close enough to these cylindrical UFOs to touch them, a security guard yelled at him to step away. Now, even though Bob's access was limited, this was groundbreaking stuff. If they could figure out how to make it work. And it was Bob's job to figure out how both the emitter and the reactor function so a different team could replicate it for the American military. Reportedly, they were racing against the Reds, who were trying to do the same thing with the UFOs that they had supposedly recovered.

[Marcus Parks]

How many times. You're always in competition with others. Pay attention to yourself.

[Eddie Lee]

It's not the American way. Not in the 20th century, my friend. I know we're in the 21st century.

[Marcus Parks]

Find your.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, 26 years into the 21st century.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's cool.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, man, I love the future.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm old as.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, you are. Nah, you're sick too. Just by looking at you, I could tell.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, to start the project, Bob and Barry figured that they'd first try to figure out what the triangle shaped disks were made of, because those were obviously the reactor's fuel source. If you figure out what fuels these things? Then that's your first step towards reverse engineering. Bob took some scrapings from the Triangle but could not identify the material as any known Earth element. He even said he sent it to Los Alamos Labs. They couldn't identify it either. So Bob. Bob named it element 115 because at the time there were only 113 elements on the periodic table. Since the 1980s, elements 114 through 118 have been synthesized using particle accelerators. Element 115 is now known as Moscovium. Bob, however, is pretty attached to referring to his element, the one taken from the disk, as element 115. So he more or less ignores the existence of Moscovium altogether.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I looked up Moscovian because I never heard of it, and it said it's useless. So I agree with Bob.

[Marcus Parks]

We don't know what it's supposed to. It's just there because we can construct it. The periodic table is elements that can hold together stably. So certain areas of, like, certain, like, very, very base elements can do it. Like, we know that we can make it sort of for, like, parts of a second, it can hold together, and it's extraordinarily radioactive. And what he's trying to say, which is there's no scientific basic for basis for, is that there's something specifically special about element 115 that when it breaks down into element 116, it admits a gravity like aura, which no other thing does.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Now, after two months at Area S4, Bob and his lab partner Barry made no progress whatsoever on their assignment. So they talked to Dennis to see if they could get some information on the other projects, like Looking Glass or Sidekick. And Dennis did not fulfill their request. But he did take Bob and Barry to investigate an actual flying saucer held in an Area 51 hangar a few days later. Which is arguably far better than what they asked for. Now, according to Bob, the craft they were allowed to inspect was plain and smooth all over, as if it was made from a mold. Bob was even allowed inside, but he said that the ceiling was too low for him to stand up straight. And the chairs were obviously made for beings that were much smaller than the average human. Bob also didn't see any seat belts, restraints, switches, dials, or displays. But Bob also said that he was only allowed to see two of the craft's three levels.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All I know is if the aliens were tiny and hairless and in these things, you know, I think I'm looking at Ariana Grande. Cynthia Riva.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

One is tiny and one is hairline.

[Marcus Parks]

There are aliens?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

It's. It's the two of them. They scare me.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Jeff Goldblum too. I'm not putting it past him.

[Eddie Lee]

No.

[Marcus Parks]

Now we're in Men in Black Territory.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Now, Bob was of course not allowed to share the nature of his work with his wife tracy during the three to four months that Bob was working at Area 51. But because Bob could not talk about it, tensions began building in their marriage. And Bob was experiencing tension of his own. Because Bob still hadn't gotten majestic clearance, he was never promoted from part time to full time at Area S4. So he still had to run the photo lab with Tracy the whole time he was working on this project. This again is a very human detail that I think gives the story more credence.

[Marcus Parks]

It is truth. A lot of these guys, they don't make a lot of money.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. But adding to the stress was the fact that a few weeks after Bob started working at Area S4, Tracy began complaining that there was a. A couple of men parking their car just a few hundred feet from their house. And they were obviously surveilling Bob and his property. Then to add even more stress, Bob claims that his military contact Dennis handed him a.22 pistol one day out of nowhere and told him that a new directive had been issued for all employees to carry guns when they're off site. Now, I don't believe that that part actually happened.

[Marcus Parks]

He's trying to juice it.

[Eddie Lee]

I think Bob's insecurities aren't just in the academic realm. I think Bob likes to present himself as a bit of a tough guy and definitely likes his story to have a certain espionage flavor.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Why would he pick a.22?

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, it's a spy gun. It's small, it's compact, and we shoot.

[Marcus Parks]

A guy in the back of head with it. Things around side of his head smash his brain. It's my blue heaven.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Of course. My favorite.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, I think it is like that's the thing. At times his choices are kind of hacky. Especially when you get to the like the Dennis stuff that as we're going to get into later. Like it. There's some stuff that is like I said, like it rings so true that it reminds me of like a great novelist. Yes. And then there are other times when it is the hackiest fucking shit that I have ever heard in my life. That is obviously Bob making something up. Now because Bob was supposedly told that he needed to carry a gun. He said he refused the.22 because he already owned a.44 Magnum and an Uzi. It's fine. To make it all legal, Bob said that he contacted a friend of his about getting his gun registered for work. And that's how a man named Jack Gene Huff comes into the story.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, Jean Huff, man.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Huff.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's a guy. That's a name that eats.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I think he let Bob do the eating for him.

[Eddie Lee]

We were talking about this, we took a break, and I was saying that Bob Lazar does have, like, classic eating mouth.

[Marcus Parks]

He does. He's a sexy guy.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Well, Gene Huff was a real estate appraiser who'd known Bob since 1984 when the two met after Bob started developing photos of home homes for Gene. Eventually, the two men discovered that they both loved explosions and pyrotechnics. In fact, Bob had actually put together a gathering of explosives enthusiasts in the Nevada desert in 1987 and called the whole thing Desert Blast.

[Marcus Parks]

Cool.

[Eddie Lee]

Gene Huff had obviously participated. Through Gene Huff, Bob was introduced to another UFO legend completely by coincidence. See, Gene Huff was acting as an appraiser for the son of the guy who had founded Learjet. And this heir to the Learjet fortune was UFO mainstay John Lear.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, the inventor of the spy tractor.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, he was the. So he was this very funny. He's the son of the guy that did the Learjet. Right. He was the magnate, the guy that ran the learning. This guy, John Lear is another one of those very difficult to pin down whistleblowers. He is the guy that is the whistleblower for the US Government, has a tacit agreement with aliens. He used the one that said President Eisenhower, but did a fake dentist appointment in Florida to have a group of have a meeting with alien grays in order to carve up society.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Right?

[Marcus Parks]

And then he also is the guy that says, like John Lear, very deep into Majestic 12.

[Eddie Lee]

Is it called the Gata Treaty?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, the Gata Treaty. He also was a. He's just. But the thing about him is that another weird spook guy, he was a full CIA pilot for a long time, so he was full deep in the intelligence services. And then he came out of it all being like, I've seen aliens, I've worked with aliens, and I did all this stuff. And then he. I mean, he's just another super cryptic weirdo deep inside of all this. And we have no idea what. Because if you connect him to Richard Doty and Paul Benowitz. Paul Benowitz ended up going into a Mental asylum because of disinformation. Literally, disinformation destroys lives. This. It gets real muddy in there.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Also. Truman Air Force Base, Key West. Yes, and there's Key West. Great place to hide. No one's down there.

[Eddie Lee]

That's true.

[Marcus Parks]

It's cats.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Lots of toes in those cats. How do they have so many toes? Maybe they're from Zeta Reticuli. Retocoli.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't believe you anymore. Now I don't believe. Believe me. You've lost me, sir. Yeah, I don't believe you, sir.

[Eddie Lee]

He's lost you, but he's found me.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, so a little bit of a cat. That was before. Netflix has been asking us to do a little market research on listening for cats pets.

[Eddie Lee]

Now, since Gene Huff was a UFO enthusiast, John Lear negotiated an exchange of UFO videos and quote unquote, other materials for Gene's real estate appraisal services. In lieu of actual payment, in lieu of cash. And so Bob, Gene and John formed a bit of a UFO group. Although Bob says that John Lear, quote, did not have a bullshit detector, meaning that John would believe anything. The increased surveillance was starting to get to Bob. After a few months working on and off at Area S4. Since he was still just part time, Bob only came in when he was called. But it seems like the surveillance was non stop. After being followed around for months, Bob said he came out of the gym one day to find that while the doors on his Datsun 280Z were fully open. And those are the doors that go up. Yeah, doors that go up, not the doors that go out.

[Marcus Parks]

They go up. Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

His possessions were still in his car. Bob believed that this was a show of power, that they, the all knowing they.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Were proving that they could do anything they wanted, but simply chose not to.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't disagree necessarily.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, maybe they just didn't want the 38 special cassette tapes.

[Marcus Parks]

Maybe they didn't need only the pictures of Carol's Bush development. They didn't need all the various pictures of him and Gene Huff Eiffel towering some weird sex worker while John Lear was in the back on, you know, like they don't need any of that. Maybe they were like, this is gross.

[Eddie Lee]

Oh, thank God. I can't make it through Wednesday morning without. Hang on loosely. I just can't make it through.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm so happy they took my fucking credence down.

[Eddie Lee]

And so Bob started thinking that because of what he knew and what he had seen, that it was very possible that he could wind up and the Nevada desert with A bullet in his head and a fabricated suicide note left at home if he wasn't careful. He then, of course, spent the next few weeks being incredibly reckless. See, after a few months, Bob got the feeling that his time at S4 was coming to an end. He wasn't getting called in anymore. He'd only received one paycheck the whole time. He'd been there for a little under a thousand dollars. Which also rings true. Contractors out there, people who work with contractors, people who are freelancers. You know how hard it is to get paid.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Eddie Lee]

And in Bob's mind, because things were winding down, he figured he might as well show his friends all of the UFO test flights that happened every Wednesday night. At around 8pm out in the Nevada desert, Bob began bringing his wife Tracy and his UFO buddies Gene Huff and John Lear out to a location called the Box, which is very much just a black mailbox on a stretch of road that is now cheekily called the Extraterrestrial Highway. The Box is actually just a mailbox. It belongs to a rancher named Steve who does not believe in aliens at all.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

And is damn tired of your tomfoolery and your.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't like him from space. I don't like him from Guadalajara.

[Eddie Lee]

Different.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Different.

[Eddie Lee]

I don't even like Irishman.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't like it. What kind of white are you?

[Eddie Lee]

Well, Steve eventually had to reinforce the mailbox with bulletproof metal and padlocks because UFO enthusiasts kept stealing his mail. Yeah, and he has since added a second mailbox for tourists, simply labeled alien.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, he's getting. He's starting to break. He's just.

[Eddie Lee]

People put money in it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, really?

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, like, they try to just give money to aliens. Like, here's $20.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you.

[Eddie Lee]

Thank you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Whenever I break a mailbox, I leave a 20 behind.

[Eddie Lee]

But after Bob met his crew at the Box, they would all head just north of Area 51 in John Lear's Winnebago. And once they got to a good viewing spot, they'd open up their beer cooler, drink a few brews, and watch the alleged UFOs do their thing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

See, this is the part that I can get behind.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, that's a blast.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, I. I fully believe this.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, well, you saw the footage. The footage is actually really interesting.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Say what you will about Bob, but there's, as you said, footage. And every single person that Bob named in these viewing sessions maintains that they did indeed see some incredible and some seemingly impossible things with Bob Lazar. They once saw, for example, a bright Orange light moving incredibly fast across the horizon in a staircase maneuver. It appeared at one height, then it went up and over, up and over and up and over. Like a staircase. It accelerated at an estimated 700 miles per hour and stopped instantaneously, which, of course, should be impossible. We've got nothing on Earth that can do that.

[Marcus Parks]

Especially not anything that doesn't use. Doesn't affect. Isn't affected by inertia.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You sent this video to us. We did watch the three of them and Tracy. They were all out there and. But like, I really. Like, there was like a dot for sure, but, like, I couldn't tell what the it was. I was like, did I just sneeze on my computer?

[Eddie Lee]

It's hard. It is hard.

[Marcus Parks]

You could see the thing. You could see. Well, they're watching a thing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, right.

[Marcus Parks]

They're all sitting there watching a thing zip around in the sky. You just don't quite know what it is.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. And it's also, you know, you're watching a VHS from 40 years ago. It's not going to be great. I mean, how.

[Marcus Parks]

The best quality. What are you talking about, Marcus? That is like how it's supposed to be seen. It is supposed to be seen from a ripped VHS tape.

[Eddie Lee]

Sure.

[Marcus Parks]

In the dark, at the lowest quality possible. That's the only way it's cool.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. That's why iPhones don't catch the UFOs, man. It's the tape that you need because they haven't figured out how to stop the tape from recording them.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, bro.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, dude.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Trickster phenomenon, man.

[Eddie Lee]

The fun, however, all came to an end on the third trip out to drink beer and watch UFOs. While they were watching these flights, the cops showed up to hassle Bob's crew. But after taking everyone's licenses and checking them out, the cop came back and.

[Marcus Parks]

Said, quote, I guess they know who you are down there. You're all free to go.

[Eddie Lee]

They checked out Bob. And even though Bob's crew escaped consequences that night, Bob got an earful from his military liaison, Dennis, the next day.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, Dennis.

[Eddie Lee]

Supposedly, Dennis asked Bob how he could have possibly gotten it twisted in his mind that it was okay to tell his friends about this highly classified project, Bob definitively himself by asking, what's the harm? Everyone in Las Vegas already knows about these strange lights that are constantly flying around Area 51. Who gives a what.

[Marcus Parks]

About what about what about what about here?

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, and Bob wouldn't even being called in to work at area S4 anymore anyway.

[Marcus Parks]

Busier, maybe if I was like, had some hours or whatever, maybe I wouldn't be out there, but maybe I'm super bored and I got nothing to do out here.

[Eddie Lee]

But Dennis, in a suitably dramatic scene, told Bob that this project was far more important than any one single person. More important than your life, more important than mine.

[Marcus Parks]

It's bigger than a sunny Jim. This is the biggest thing you've ever worked on your old little life.

[Eddie Lee]

All right?

[Marcus Parks]

So you get out there, you show me them orbs.

[Eddie Lee]

Finally, though, when Bob kept protesting that he and his friends were just looking at a few lines, lights in the sky. Dennis got paranoid, accused Bob of sabotaging the project, demanding to know, who are you working for?

[Marcus Parks]

Bob, I'm barely working for myself.

[Henry Zebrowski]

If you have any photos to develop, I could work for you.

[Marcus Parks]

They would be kind of nice, actually. I am looking for the extra hour.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hey, you want to get your dick sucked in Reno?

[Marcus Parks]

I know just the lucky lady. All right. Here's my card. All right. I'm what you'd call a woman sommelier.

[Eddie Lee]

Bob's life, however, was about to fall apart in more ways than one. After Bob and Dennis argued that day for some time, Dennis decided to twist the knife as fully as he could twist it. Near the end of the fight, Dennis allegedly said, oh, that's right, I almost forgot. Your wife has been having an affair with her flight instructor, Tony, since February. You fucking idiot, you Rob.

[Marcus Parks]

I knew they weren't flying. Flying at midnight. Oh, wow. I knew that the flights didn't take off from the fud ruckers.

[Eddie Lee]

Dennis then handed Bob transcripts of every call between Tony and Tracy. Take a look.

[Marcus Parks]

It's right there for you.

[Eddie Lee]

It became apparent that Tony and Tracy had been meeting every time Bob was working out at AR4.

[Marcus Parks]

You meant to tell me, son, Should I've been. I've been living a lie. I've been living a lie like, well, I'm just a cockle.

[Eddie Lee]

I'm just a cuckold.

[Marcus Parks]

I love cuckold. And Jimmy Stewart cockle hair.

[Eddie Lee]

Bob was of course bummed about the affair, but he was almost more bummed that his wife's affair was most likely, in his estimation, why he never got majestic clearance and therefore why he never got a full time position at area S4.

[Marcus Parks]

That actually is true. They do hold your family against you. They go and they research your family. If you work in the intelligence services, they go and research your family. And if you have two wild card of a. You won't get certain clearances.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, of course not.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

But that's the thing. Like, you won't get the clearance, but Jimmy Carter can still become president with Billy as his brother. It's amazing.

[Marcus Parks]

You got to be president. That's the thing is you got to beat. That's what our wise president learned.

[Eddie Lee]

You got.

[Marcus Parks]

You just got to be the president, Then you can do whatever you want. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. I don't think Bob could have had a Hunter Biden in his life.

[Marcus Parks]

No. Wow, though. He's the Hunter Biden.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, as Bob put it, a man whose wife is cheating on him is likely to find out at some point, and he's likely to be emotionally unstable as a result. And so Bob went home that day after talking with Dennis, and he confronted Tracy. Tracy justified her affair by saying that he'd been ignoring her ever since he'd gotten his mysterious job with E, G, and G. Bob then left. And with nowhere else to go, he went where every man in the UFO game eventually ends up one way or another. He went to stay in his buddy Jean's doomsday bunker until things work themselves out.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a very comfortable couch down there.

[Marcus Parks]

There's light. I have some rations. We have this map of what the United States will look like after Civil War. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I got a towel, but I don't have a washcloth. So you're gonna. You're on your own there?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's okay. Don't worry. I wash with my hands. I'm washing those bar to soap bar, to screw, to skin guys.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Right.

[Marcus Parks]

I can see that. With Bob Lazar.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no loofah.

[Eddie Lee]

No. No loofah at all. Yeah, just the soap.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All right, remember, we're in a bunker, so if it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, choke it down.

[Marcus Parks]

You're gonna eat that, right? We already got a septic day.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, unfortunately, though, things were permanently severed with Tracy and Bob and Tracy separated in May of nineteen nineteen eighty nine. So no matter what actually happened at Area S4, Area 51, Tracy was Tony.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

That.

[Eddie Lee]

That was true.

[Marcus Parks]

That was not a conspiracy. That was very much reality. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And, you know, if you go to contact in the desert, you could know that everyone there who has a wife is currently. That wife is getting laid happily at home.

[Eddie Lee]

No, no, no, no, no, baby, you need to go. You need to go. This is your weekend. This is your thing. I know this is. This is so important to you. I need you to go. You. I mean. I mean, you need to go. You need you to go to this thing.

[Marcus Parks]

I had this dream Last night that you went. You have to go.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Could you get me a crystal this year?

[Marcus Parks]

Can you get me a white man's African outfit? I love white Wakanda.

[Eddie Lee]

It's the best. According to Bob, life got dangerous around the time that he and his wife split up in early May in 1989. Bob claims someone driving in a car next to him shot out one of the tires on his Dutson 280Z. Bob believes that this was a warning from the government because only a professional could have shut a tire from a moving vehicle.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I don't know. Those guys out there are shooting rattlesnakes from 20 yards away.

[Marcus Parks]

I think it's kind of the funnest thing they do is shoot tires at a moving vehicle.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, yeah. My dad can. He can actually hit a bird sitting on. Was it a telephone wire from a moving car while he's driving?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. There's multiple movies about it. Breakdown, wrong turn, U turn.

[Marcus Parks]

Is this whole story falling apart right now?

[Eddie Lee]

Bob claims that this incident is what convinced him to go public with what he knew about what was happening at area area S4 and area 51 at large. See, Bob's friend John Lear had already done a TV interview outlining everything he knew about UFOs with everyone's favorite Nevada news anchor, George Knapp.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. God, I'm not even KLAS tv. George Knapp, that guy that y' all know, George Knapp, he doesn't work. That's a real investigative reporter. You can't say jack dick about George Knapp.

[Eddie Lee]

George Knapp is an actual journalist. And so John Lear put Bob Lazar in contact with George Knapp. George Knapp agreed to do an interview with Bob on the local news. That kept Bob's interview hidden. George and Bob did not fuck around because Bob's first appearance was May 15, 1989, just a couple weeks after the alleged shooting incident. It was also, however, not too long after Bob found out about his wife's affair. And one could definitely draw a few conclusions from that timeline. But even so, I do believe that George Knapp has a very good sense of people. And George believed that Bob Lazar was telling the truth.

[Marcus Parks]

We definitely believed that they were. He was going to go and dig up what he could.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And I think that he liked Bob.

[Eddie Lee]

At the very least, I believe that he thought that there was some truth to George's story.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I do. To Bob story. And I do believe Bob story.

[Eddie Lee]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

And I do believe that there. I do think that there is, too. But we'll get into it.

[Eddie Lee]

Now, to be the slightest bit cheeky, Bob appeared in his interview with George as a shadowy figure in a car using the name Dennis. It was a little nod to his military contact. Bit of a you, hey, that's the.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Car that I shot at.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. He appeared in his extraordinarily rare Datsun 280Z. No one else is gonna. No one's gonna recognize. Recognize the car with the doors that go up. But while you'd think this would be a local story that would come and go, local nutball says something weird about the desert. The Dennis interview, as it's come to be known, immediately received international attention.

[Marcus Parks]

It was huge.

[Eddie Lee]

Portions were broadcast across not just America, but in six European countries and in a nationally televised TV special in Japan. In very short order, Area 51 went from being a fringe belief to a central part of the world's collective knowledge about UFOs. Like I said, this is May of 1989. Independence Day is 1996. 1997. The fucking Area 51 video game. Remember the shooter one and the arcades? It was so amazing.

[Marcus Parks]

It was so awesome.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I said, played it recently.

[Eddie Lee]

It's great, like 95, you know, 94. Like, Area 51 was just, boom. It was there.

[Marcus Parks]

Because also, it's great name. You know, it's.

[Eddie Lee]

It's fun to say.

[Marcus Parks]

It's utterly mysterious. We have no idea what happens there. They do have those, like, giant, like, carved into the mountain. Like, like, that's real. That is Martin.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And it's like one of those things. When I first heard of Area 51, I felt like I had heard about.

[Marcus Parks]

It my whole life. Of course it makes sense. Yeah. Especially after the Manhattan Project. It makes a lot of sense.

[Eddie Lee]

But this broadcast was not without its supposed threats. After the interview aired, Bob claims that Dennis called him up and asked, quote.

[Marcus Parks]

Bab, do you have any idea what we're going to do to you now?

[Eddie Lee]

Bob said, no, but then Dennis just hung up, didn't say anything. That was with her butthole.

[Marcus Parks]

Come down there and I'm going to kiss him and kiss you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Right before he hung up, he heard say, hey, yeah, it's good.

[Marcus Parks]

He doesn't know.

[Eddie Lee]

Really wasn't paying attention during that part of the briefing. So, yeah, just go ahead, start warming up the machine.

[Marcus Parks]

Turn it on, because, you know, it takes a while for it to collide.

[Eddie Lee]

No, it was obvious that George had a hit here. So two days after the May 15 broadcast, George Knapp called up Bob Lazar to do more interviews. Bob claims that he agreed reluctantly, but he Also also insisted that if he was going to do it, he needed to reveal his identity on camera to give his story more credibility. This is the paradox of Bob Lazar constantly saying that he does not like attention while also drawing incredible amounts of attention to himself.

[Marcus Parks]

I have a reason why I'm gonna wait till the end.

[Eddie Lee]

All right?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay.

[Eddie Lee]

But after the second interview was taped in which Bob revealed his identity, Bob panicked and told George Knapp that he didn't want the interview to air. See, George had told Bob that Bob could back out at any point. Of course, to the second the interview.

[Marcus Parks]

Was air, you got to.

[Eddie Lee]

And Bob was indeed trying to back out. This part I also believe. Apparently this conversation was happening as George Knapp was walking towards the studio to hand over the videotape containing Bob's interview. When George told Bob, hey, you're just getting cold feet. This interview needs to be aired. Bob Fullon tackled George and took him to the floor in an attempt to grab the tape.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, George. And George was like, I could see him standing like a pugilist when he's like, like doing that, like the Bob Barker punch.

[Eddie Lee]

Oh, they were rolling around on the floor. George is holding the tape just out of Bob's reach.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm stronger than you, Bob. Don't with me, Bob. I'm stronger than you, Bob.

[Eddie Lee]

He said, we're doing the right thing here. We're doing the right thing.

[Marcus Parks]

Calm down, Bob.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Just calm down.

[Eddie Lee]

It's just cold feet, Bob.

[Marcus Parks]

Listen. Breaking. Everybody's going to be upset, okay?

[Eddie Lee]

And eventually, George won. And as George handed over the tape to be aired, Bob reportedly just sat on the floor with his head in his hands. But in the end, George was right. He had put together a five part series for KLAS TV called UFOs the Best Evidence. And he wisely waited until part five to fully reveal Bob Lazar's identity. This is a showman now. They did discuss the fact none of the schools or workplaces that Bob claimed to have attended, attended or worked out. They did discuss that there was no record of Bob anywhere. But interestingly, this is a part that is very. This is where you kind of get into like, these are the things that are true. Although the Los Alamos National Lab initially denied that Bob had worked there, they did eventually admit that Bob had been employed there for a time through a contractor.

[Marcus Parks]

It's fascinating that they try to deny it, right? Yeah, they like. It's kind of interesting that they were like. They didn't just kind of like explain more. They were like, yeah, I find that interesting.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So you're telling me the most didn't remember?

[Marcus Parks]

It's not their job. We have to remember them.

[Eddie Lee]

Furthermore, you know area S4, it's a real place. It ended up coming out that it was a real place. It did exist. An FBI agent that Bob knew by name, guy named Mike Thigpen. He also confirmed that he worked on Bob's security clearance. Bob's friends also, as I said, they confirmed that they went out to the Nevada desert on three consecutive Wednesdays where they saw saw strange lights that they could not explain. So there is some stuff here. Like it's not like it's not like Montauk project where it's fucking nothing. You know, it's just entirely fake and it's just a fun story. Like with Bob Lazar, there's shit here. Like there is a little bit of substance. Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

And then we'll find out later too. He was raided by the FBI. All these things did ha. Things did happen to him.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Now, after the interviews aired, Bob claimed that he continued to be monitored. And Gene Huff reported that he was being tailed as well. It did not however appear that the government was willing to kill Bob. So Bob's life just sort of continued. It did however continue in a relatively shady manner. See, Bob doesn't discuss this at all in his book. But about a year after his interviews with George Knapp, Bob was arrested for pandering, which is the act of promoting, facilitating or profiting from immoral or unlawful activities. In other words, Bob was arrested for pimping without a license.

[Marcus Parks]

He was being a manager.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, you should have a license if it is going to be something that's allowed. There should be like, you know, some kind of regulation, I believe.

[Marcus Parks]

Sam. I think it should all be legal.

[Eddie Lee]

100%.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, but you know, pimping ain't easy.

[Eddie Lee]

No, it's not.

[Marcus Parks]

It's not. It's actually specifically difficult.

[Eddie Lee]

As one version of the story goes, Bob had paid a woman named Tony Bullock $100 for sex, then recruited her to do sex work out of his apartment in the Nevada town of Paradise. Bob claimed that he was trying to modern sex work with computers, which admittedly very Forward thinking in 1990. Super laser. But an examination of Bob's computers found only records of Tony's customers. And further records showed that Bob had rented the apartment in Paradise a week before he hired Tony Bullock. And it also showed records that Bob was taking 50% of what Tony was.

[Marcus Parks]

Making with a very, very generous cut.

[Eddie Lee]

I mean some pimps take more.

[Marcus Parks]

I know Take much more, and they take it with the man. That's why, as a pimp, I just fucking.

[Henry Zebrowski]

If I was a pimp, I'd do.

[Marcus Parks]

It with positive validation.

[Eddie Lee]

Sure.

[Marcus Parks]

And, like, I like what you're doing. Loving your hustle, loving your work. Here's your hall. Here's a lollipop.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

All right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Keep this up, I see you pimping at the Taj Mahal. Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

But to Bob's credit, the prosecutor in Bob's case said that while Bob was trying to recruit other women from legal brothels for his local operation, his actions, quote, and this is in the words of the da, they were not the type of involvement when one thinks of a pimp.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, normally, when we have some form of pimposity here, or possibly you're talking.

[Eddie Lee]

About pimpery in a chance.

[Marcus Parks]

If I'm seeing some pimpery going on, you know, he has to have his cup. You know, he has to have his train and hat.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, he wasn't even wearing a cape.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He cannot.

[Marcus Parks]

He cannot be pimping so casually.

[Eddie Lee]

I look at this man's shoes, and I see no goldfish in this. His hills, his pimper nation is nowhere near reaching the standards for Nevada law.

[Marcus Parks]

Let me take a look at your orthopedic ass.

[Eddie Lee]

All right.

[Marcus Parks]

You must get some heels, son. Rise that pimping game.

[Eddie Lee]

He said, for example, there was no drugs involved. That's. You might expect that with pimps. There's also. There's no intimidation, no force slapping ladies around, no coercion at all.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Bob really was, like, too nice.

[Eddie Lee]

He was. No. He was trying to de. Do DIY sex work.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, he's trying to help. Yeah, he's trying to help.

[Eddie Lee]

He's just trying to help. He's just. He want. He just want. He's like, I had some experience in the brothel business, and he was apparently. I mean, there's a whole other side quest to this where, you know, where Gene Huff says that Bob was really depressed after the interview came out, and so he started going to sex workers. And he started going to this one specific brothel where he became friends with the madam. And then Bob started fixing all the electronics and all the broken radios of the girls that work there. And then the madam fel love with Bob. And then Bob. And then she eventually told him that she was an FBI informant, that she also worked for Las Vegas Metro. And then Bob eventually had to say, like, no, no, no, I. She said, I'm in love with you. And Bob said, you can't be in Love with me. I'm not in love with you. And then Bob started doing his own pimping business.

[Marcus Parks]

Pimping is not easy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It really isn't, especially when you talk about all this.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, I know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now there's does sound fun. A lot of.

[Eddie Lee]

A lot of ins and outs.

[Marcus Parks]

Because you love it.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, you get it. You really do get. Well, I mean, there are some people who do it for the money and.

[Marcus Parks]

That, to be honest, empty.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, as George Knapp put it, Bob was always trying to help someone out, and as usual, he got in trouble for it.

[Marcus Parks]

And there are men that just happen to. We people love sex workers.

[Eddie Lee]

Sure.

[Marcus Parks]

I think that Bob Lazar is one of those things where he's a genuine friend to sex workers.

[Eddie Lee]

Truly so. And you know what? The world needs men like that.

[Marcus Parks]

Of course, you got to have a nice guy who's going to help out. He's doing the computer work. He's in all the tech stuff.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah, Someone's got to talk to these ladies.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, I mean, that's actually, that's what Bob Lazar said, is that when he was hanging out at that brothel, he was trying to modernize the whole thing. He was trying to, you know, bring this brothel into the 21st century before the 20th century was even over.

[Marcus Parks]

Bob's great.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And who better to try out lies on than a sex worker?

[Marcus Parks]

Because she's heard. And that sex worker can be like, now that's a good lie. They know it. That's a real convincing lie, Bob.

[Eddie Lee]

Ah, but there's no better liar in the world than a sex worker. And she's gonna tell him what he wants to hear. Oh, God.

[Marcus Parks]

So great. What a great way.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, George Knapp actually wrote character testimony letters for Bob during Bob's trial for pandering. So Bob actually got out with a sentence of 150 hours of community service, six months probation, and an order to stay out of brothels, which he could have created backpages.com but he was kicked out of the game.

[Marcus Parks]

He was so close, though.

[Eddie Lee]

The final strange chapter in Bob's life came just a few years ago. See, in the years since the pandering arrest, Bob has founded a successful company called United Nuclear that sells chemicals, elements, lab equipment, and tons of Area 51 merch. But in 2018, when Bob Lazar was working on a documentary with Jeremy Corbell, perhaps right around the time that Jeremy was weaponizing Bob's killer curiosity, the FBI raided Bob's company. Bob and Jeremy claimed that the day before the raid they had been in Bob's office discussing the mysterious element that. That had powered the UFOs. Element 115. And Bob had admitted that he had stolen a sample of the stuff from Area S4 the next day. Allegedly is when the FBI raided United Nuclear. But if this is indeed how it went down, it does seem to be a total coincidence, because the FBI's raid on Bob's office was actually tied to a murder case involving chemicals that may have been purchased from United Nuclear.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. So that's why I think he made up the lie of the. Of that. Of the searching for the element in order to cover up for the fact that he was. He was probably party to a murder. I actually think part of what Bob are. Part of his lie is. Are a lot of, like, I have to get out of trouble very quickly.

[Eddie Lee]

Oh, so you're telling me that that entire scene at the beginning of that documentary in which Bob Lazar and Jeremy Corbell are furiously texting each other, you're telling me that was staged? You're telling me that didn't. That it didn't happen exactly like that.

[Marcus Parks]

And the cameras weren't rolling? Staged? I just feel that maybe Jeremy might have been very enthusiastic about being near Bob and that Bob had a new person to lie to.

[Eddie Lee]

Jeremy had already weaponized my curio.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He did.

[Marcus Parks]

And I left. Now I don't know what to do with it. It's still. You just. You're going to want to put the blanks in there. You don't want to put some blanks in your curiosity. You want to shoot them in the sand.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Okay, so do they say the FBI took element 115 from them during this raid?

[Eddie Lee]

No, he still got it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Apparently.

[Eddie Lee]

Apparently he still got it.

[Marcus Parks]

He boofed it.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. And that's how you get raids.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, in December 2015, this is the story of how the FBI came to be on Bob Lazar's doorstep in December of 2015. A Michigan woman named Janet Sturzel.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Janet.

[Eddie Lee]

Janet Flight. Interesting. And did you notice that Tony, the sex worker that Bob was working with when he got arrested, had the same name as the man who was sleeping with his second wife?

[Marcus Parks]

That's actually just realized. That's weird. Yeah, that's weird.

[Eddie Lee]

That's just sad.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. He started a woman with the same name of the guy that cucked him out with his wife. That's strange.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, sometimes you gotta become the cuck to be the.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. The worst thing that happened to Vegas is when all the Tonys took over.

[Eddie Lee]

That is true.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep.

[Eddie Lee]

To New York. Yeah. Well, Janet Sturzel died after being exposed to an element called. Called thallium in December of 2015. Thallium is a rare element. It's used in the manufacture of electronics, glass, and pharmaceuticals. But it is known as the poisoner's poison because it has no odor, no color, no taste, and it is hard to detect. Now, when Janet Sturzel was diagnosed with thallium poisoning, it was deduced that she had been intentionally dosed, and her death was therefore investigated as a homicide. United Nuclear Bomb, Lazar's company, they did sell thallium. So the FBI raid was in service of trying to find evidence that Stel had bought the thallium herself or that someone who knew her had bought it and used it to kill her.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, maybe she stole it thinking it was Valium because she wasn't listening.

[Marcus Parks]

And that's.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Honestly.

[Marcus Parks]

That's more of a lesson about being present.

[Eddie Lee]

It had to. I mean, it was. It had to have been mail order, because, like, that's the thing.

[Marcus Parks]

You have to. They get it from overseas.

[Eddie Lee]

Bob Lazar does mail out these incredibly dangerous chemicals to anybody who wants them.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

No, you just buy them, actually. Yeah, our. One of our research assistants asked a friend of theirs that is into all this stuff, and the friend was like, I can't believe what I can buy from this man.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you can buy crazy shit from insane.

[Eddie Lee]

What you can buy from him.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Buy some shit.

[Eddie Lee]

I mean, it's so deadly, it could kill us.

[Marcus Parks]

I actually went through a period of time when I was a child when my grandfather gave me an extremely old chemistry set. And I just remember the chemicals playing. I remember being so worried that I was going to poison the family. And then I had all these. I was playing all these chemicals, and then I remember something up, and then just assuming I was going to. I remember this one night where I fucked something up, and I was like, I'm going to kill the family. Family's going to be poisoned because of me. And it went to dinner, and I was scared, dude.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I almost offed myself with a mop bucket one time, putting too many weird chemicals together because I want the floor to be clean. Yeah, Buff of Wild Wings is crazier than you think. We just don't.

[Marcus Parks]

We're just not educated.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, me and my buddy did have a whole lot of fun with the copy of the Anarchist Cookbook that we printed off the Internet in 1999. Just hanging out in his barn, just mixing together a lot of things that we really shouldn't have we very lucky we didn't die.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh yeah, but we did blow up a lot of. Oh yeah. The two liter with the thing and the thing. I want to say what the things are because we're live and you throw it and it blows up in the driveway. Lots of fun.

[Eddie Lee]

Oh yeah. Potato guns, homemade napal.

[Marcus Parks]

Now kids just had said they don't even get to have fun making it all up. They just buy a AR15 and kill themselves that way, not the fun way. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's no Anarchist MacBook.

[Eddie Lee]

No. Now there are no records that the FBI was looking for element 115. And Lazar was not in any way considered a suspect in January Sturzel's death. That death by the way, still unsolved. They still have no idea what happened to this woman who gave her the thallium, how she got a hold of it. Nothing. But if it all went down the way they said it did, the raid coinciding with the documentary was to say the least, one hell of a coincidence. And that's if it did go down that way. And so while Balzar may or may not be telling the truth when it comes to what went down in Area 51, the man has still lived one hell a hell of an interesting life. And it is still Bob Lazar that we have to thank for bringing Area 51 to the world's attention.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's. It is fascinating. This whole story is fascinating. And then I went on a. On a obviously very long rabbit hole and I got going for 40 something years.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And so I have a.

[Eddie Lee]

Why I don't like it that you describe the rabbit hole as long.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Why a long hole?

[Marcus Parks]

I like a long hole. Long thin holes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And so let's say it's all real up to a point. Let's say he went to Los Alamos. Let's say it's true that he went and he messaged Dr. Teller and then Dr. Teller got him in on the super secret new program that he was working on, the Special Projects division. But let's say it's a different type.

[Eddie Lee]

Of project at Area 51 or Los Alamos at S4.

[Marcus Parks]

So you go to S4, S4 history of building espionage technology. The main thing that came out of it was the UT to we know in real lore, real UFO lore, they say that Roswell was taken, the UFO that crashed there was taken to Los Alamos. All of these things are Wright Patterson other places, not S4. If you actually believe. What I think actually happened was that he was hired to Do a very specific low level project on what they called this. It's a. Using this thing called a Bragg curve, which is a proton beam that they created. And a part of what it does is, which I find even more interesting than UFOs themselves is that it makes an orb. They can zap it up into the sky and they can make an orb that can travel just like a ufo.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And that's what they're looking at.

[Marcus Parks]

And it looks like a ufo and it went up every Wednesday. And he was so butt hurt about the whole scenario. Hated John. Made fun of John Lear. Yeah, it was to make fun of him and pull him in, right. To see he'll believe anything. It was because Gene Huff was his other fat faced friend that he loved to make fun of.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Right.

[Marcus Parks]

They had a big falling out. All of Bob is not being able, he's never been able to hold on to a friend.

[Eddie Lee]

John, John Lear was a part of Bob's stories for a long time. And then very suddenly John Lear just disappeared from all of Bob's stories. Like he's not mentioned. Like he was mentioned in Art Bell but not mentioned in Joe Rogan.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, he's like been cut out because John Lear is, was seen as an unstable person. And so what if the US government already was making, making technology that aped UFO movements versus having UFOs. So we've already met. Imagine there was a world where they already tried to retrofit the UFO technology and it didn't work.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's like sky holograms. Yes.

[Eddie Lee]

So it's like a, it's like they're, they've got a laser pointer, they're pointing in the sky and we're all the cat and we are the cats.

[Marcus Parks]

And we're the cats. The goal is to scare the Russians. But then what happens is, is that he does talk about, he shows everybody this extremely secret project, right? Because this idea, it's like, because it's a double game. It's, we're lying about UFOs, we're lying saying that we communicate with them and then we're harnessing their powers, blah blah, blah. So he then goes to save his own skin when they bring him in, right? Because they're gonna shoot him in the back of the fucking head, right? Or something. God knows what they're gonna do to him. He starts this super outlandish story and he goes out there and he begins to create this construct to create, create, to cover up what he was doing. And then he sticks to it every single day for the rest of his life so that he knows that one day someone will come and double tap him on the back of that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, interesting.

[Marcus Parks]

But now it wouldn't even matter. So I kind of. Now we're at this point though, it's like now that technology is old news, Whatever it is, the we got now God knows what it is. So technically, Bob Lazard has no reason to really hide anymore.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, I mean, for me, the coolest thing about Bob Lazar is that he's just. He's the reason why we know about Area 51. It's like no matter whether Area 51 is full of UFC, UFOs or not, people believe that it is. You know, it has become a part of not just American culture, but world culture, world belief. You know, when people talk about the history of the 20th century, years and years from now, centuries from now, Area 51 is going to be a part of it. It's going to be a part of the conversation. And that's because of Bob Lazar.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Whatever happened when everyone tried to storm.

[Marcus Parks]

Area 51, they told them very much so we will shoot you.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

En masse.

[Eddie Lee]

Well, actually, the storm area 51 thing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Better security than capital.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah, yeah. The area 50, the storm area 51. It's thought actually that it was a consequence of Bob Lazar's interview on Joe Rogan in 2018. The storm area 51 was 2019. Yes. Yeah. It was started by some on Facebook. And yeah, they did say like, yeah, if you try it, we will, we will.

[Marcus Parks]

They were like, we'll kill you.

[Eddie Lee]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Like, this is not a joke. You're Naruto running should. We will kill you. Which is again, we probably should have done it outside of the White House as well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But we didn't. And now we're here, aren't we.

[Eddie Lee]

Guys?

[Marcus Parks]

What a wonderful episode. Good work, Marcus.

[Eddie Lee]

Oh, thank you. This is cool.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is a lot of fun.

[Marcus Parks]

It was really thick. Go on to patreon.com podcast on the left. You can still go get all those episodes ad free over on Patreon. And you can see last stream on the left live 6pm PST. Go check it out. Also all of our social medias at LP on the left. Whatever. Go over there, do all that YouTube channels someplace underneath. LPN Romantasy, the Foreign Report, LPN TV. Please check out our whole brand new series. We have. It's. It's Vampire the Masquerade, LPN rpg. If you're on Netflix watching this the first time, you know, I don't know where you go to see it. But you go check it out over there, right? We got a brand new thing called lpnrp RPG Bloodbath. And it's amazing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hell yeah, man. And come see us on the road. February 28, Austin, Texas. March 13, Indianapolis, Indiana. April 25, Cincinnati, Ohio. May 29, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. June 27, Grand Rapids, Michigan. July 17, Tulsa, Oklahoma. July 18, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

[Marcus Parks]

Oklahoma. Oklahoma. Oklahoma.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oklahoma.

[Marcus Parks]

I can't wait.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hell yeah. I got a big announcement for myself. I'm also going to be joining a mothership. And that's right, because I'm going to be at P Funk Fest. That's right. Tickets are on sale. April 11, Tallahassee, Florida. Phipps Farm. It's me and P Funk on an all day festival with every version of P Funk that exists. And then the next day, you know what I'm doing? I'm doing a show at Jumbo Shrimp Stadium and Five Star Park. I am making my life exactly what I want it to be. And I'm working my ass off at it. And I'm getting paid nothing for it.

[Marcus Parks]

Absolutely. Jack Dick.

[Henry Zebrowski]

2, 3, 4.

[Eddie Lee]

We are the Jumbo Shrimp. Here to play a game.

[Marcus Parks]

God. And may they play forever.

[Eddie Lee]

May they play forever. Hail sweet Saint N. Bob.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I like Bob.

[Eddie Lee]

I like Bob too.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I like Dewey.

[Marcus Parks]

He's a fun guy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, he is fun. He's a lot of fun. He's a fun guy.

[Eddie Lee]

God knows what he.

[Marcus Parks]

God knows what he's up to.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's so rare that I get to hail the star of our story.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, very rare.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Eddie Lee]

Ready for big fun.

[Marcus Parks]

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[Marcus Parks]

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[Marcus Parks]

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[Marcus Parks]

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[Eddie Lee]

21/Hey listeners. Marcus, Edd and Henry here. A little bit of an announcement.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You loving all the episodes of last podcast on the left lately. Well listen now you can can get even more from us.

[Marcus Parks]

Squeeze it out of us if you want to hear new episodes ad free and unlock access to last podcast on the left seven days early. Subscribe to Sirius XM Podcast plus on Apple Podcasts or visit sirius xm.compodcastplus to start your free trial today. Do it.