Last Update on the Left – Episode 12: BTK Returns w/ Katherine Ramsland

Podcast: Last Podcast On The Left
Original Air Date: March 23, 2026
Episode Summary by The Last Podcast Network
Special Guest: Dr. Katherine Ramsland, forensic psychologist and author of Confession of the BTK Killer

OVERVIEW

This episode investigates the supposed new victims of notorious serial killer Dennis Rader, aka BTK, digging into recent claims and evidence with Dr. Katherine Ramsland—a foremost expert who spent over a decade communicating with Rader. The hosts, Marcus Parks and Henry Zebrowski, alongside producer Ed Larson, guide listeners through the latest developments and rumors, questioning the authenticity of new allegations and pondering the psychology of both Rader and the law enforcement chasing leads. Dr. Ramsland shares candid insights on Rader’s motivations, the misinterpretation of new “evidence,” her extensive one-on-one experience with BTK, and the current state of sensationalism in true crime media.

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & TIMESTAMPS

1. Setting the Scene: The “New” BTK Victims

[02:00–05:20]

Host Marcus Parks introduces Dr. Ramsland to explore the validity of newly-linked BTK victims and rumored evidence.
Dr. Ramsland: Skeptical about recent claims, referencing Sheriff Eddie Burden’s investigation in Oklahoma.
- “Everything that he's offered has an alternative interpretation… Raider's interpretation is, no, it's not me.” (02:39)
- She reveals that even with immunity offered for confessions, Rader rejects the claims, asking: "Why wouldn't I confess?... I'd go out like a fading star." (03:13, Ramsland paraphrasing Rader)

2. A Case Example: The Garber Case

[03:41–05:07]

The heavily-bound Missouri case appeared “very Raider," yet genetic genealogy and new testimony identified a different killer.
- Dr. Ramsland: “Turns out it was not Dennis Rader… despite all the things that looked very much like it was Dennis Rader, it wasn't.” (05:07)

3. Origins of the New Theories: “Bad Wash Day”

[05:36–07:37]

Originated from a cryptic ‘Bad Wash Day’ entry in Rader’s journals.
Sheriff Burden found a knotted pantyhose at Rader's old property, suggesting possible evidence.
Ramsland critiques: The pantyhose likely has mundane origins or pertain to an already-known victim. The case remains ambiguous.

4. On Coding, Puzzles, and Word Games

[08:44–12:19]

Detective teams attempted to link word puzzles sent by Rader in 2004 to victim names.
Ramsland likens this to numerology and “Torah codes”:
- “You can find anything if you try hard enough with that puzzle.” (12:08)
She challenges law enforcement to bring real charges if evidence exists, rather than stoking media speculation.

5. Law Enforcement’s Motivation vs. BTK’s Psychology

[13:25–16:55]

Dr. Ramsland questions the root of sheriff’s suspicions, suggesting media and tenuous circumstantial links over hard evidence.
Clarifies Rader’s supreme motivation: infamy, not fear of prison transfer.
- “His strongest motivation is to be famous.” (15:27)
Rader's word games and “cat-and-mouse” tactics: motivated by a sense of power over police and entertainment for his “fanbase.”

6. Journals, Literary Legacy, & How BTK Was Caught

[17:01–21:05]

Rader kept detailed journals, some used to taunt or manipulate investigators; his compendium is messy, not a coherent book.
A cyber mistake led authorities to him: he used a church computer for a disk sent to police, leaving his name on metadata.

7. The Myth of the ‘Lonely, Troubled’ Serial Killer

[21:26–23:06]

Rader’s background was “All-American” and not the usual traumatic upbringing often ascribed to serial killers.
- Ramsland: “That formula… is old from the 1990s based on very poor data… It wasn't that big of a surprise to me, the idea that a man lives a double life.” (21:47)

8. Cultural & Technological Change: Policing Then vs. Now

[32:59–33:32]

Rader’s longevity attributed more to era-specific police limitations than brilliance—“Success had a lot to do with luck,” says Ramsland.

9. BTK’s Modus Operandi & The Psychology of Bondage

[33:36–34:29]

Unique in modeling himself after serial killers via detective magazines.
The act of bondage excited Rader more than the act of killing.

10. Speculative & Ethical Segues: Prevention and the ‘Therapeutic S&M’ Thought Experiment

[35:08–37:09]

Henry imagines a world where fantasy is discharged using dolls or S&M clubs as interventions.
Ramsland references Rader’s own belief that having an outlet (e.g., S&M clubs) might’ve prevented violence.
- “He thought that would actually have made a difference for him.” (36:26)

11. Rader Activity: Dormant or Persistent?

[39:43–40:08]

Ramsland reveals Rader continued stalking—55 “projects” (potential victims)—beyond the known killings.
- “He says, I didn't stop. I just didn't succeed.” (40:08)

12. The Nature of ‘Knowing’ a Serial Killer

[27:19–29:49]

Dr. Ramsland reflects on 14 years of interaction, reading his moods, and sometimes chatting casually about TV or politics.
- “I'm sure he thinks that I've been… a good friend because I've helped to advise him.” (29:27)

13. BTK’s Private Life and Pop Culture Tastes

[30:27–31:08]

BTK enjoys American Movie Classics; especially Annette Funicello.
- “He liked Annette Funicello from the Musketeers. That was a big one for him.” (30:52)

14. Rader’s Physical Decline and Imprisonment

[42:10–42:21]

“No teeth, none. Scoliosis. So he's all bent over. He's lost something like six inches from his height… He's not in good shape. No, he knows it. He's 78. He's not young.” (42:10)

NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

On the Thrill of Fame vs. False Confessions

Dr. Ramsland on Rader's pride:

“If I had more victims… it'd be amazing. But I'm not going to confess to something I didn't do.” (03:13)
On motivation:

“His strongest motivation is to be famous.” (15:27)

On Law Enforcement’s Word-Puzzle ‘Evidence’

Critique of connecting names in puzzles:

“You can find anything if you try hard enough with that puzzle… If that is evidence, bring charges. Don't just play this out in the media.” (12:08, 12:14, 12:19)

On Stalking vs. Murder

Clarifying Rader’s “Dormancy”:

“He says, ‘I didn't stop. I just didn't succeed.’” (40:08)
On his list of ‘projects’:

“He gave me a list of 55 projects of people he stalked… They would have died had they come home…” (39:43)

On the Appeal of the Double Life

Ramsland on BTK’s non-abusive upbringing:

“His family was like all American, middle class, Kansas religious family… He didn't have abuse in his background.” (31:49, 32:39)

On Prevention Fantasies

Could outlets like S&M clubs have helped?

“He thought so… He thought that would actually have made a difference for him.” (36:26)

On Serial Killers as Ordinary People

Reflecting on serial killers as humans:

“Reminding ourselves all the time that serial killers are people… There are humans in there… imagining just… talking TV… with Raider.” (48:18–48:37, Henry Zebrowski)

HIGHLIGHTS OF EPISODE DYNAMICS

Henry’s humor: Henry brings levity and discomfort to heavy topics (“Do you think we could make robot mannequins for serial killers as a release?”).
Dr. Ramsland’s candor: Particularly in discussing the drudgery and luck involved in the BTK case, her honesty about the often-mythologized serial killer psychology stands out.
Behind-the-scenes: The hosts and Ramsland chat about coping with dark material (her answer: “I groom a horse and ride a horse,” (45:09)), and both agree that prolonged exposure to serial killers is emotionally taxing.

DR. RAMSLAND’S RECENT & UPCOMING WORK ([45:33]–[47:36])

Book just published: The Serial Killer’s Apprentice: Wayne Henley, Dean Corll, and an Unfinished American Tragedy
Upcoming projects: Ramsland will appear at CrimeCon and agrees to return to discuss her work on the Houston Mass Murders and possible connections to John Wayne Gacy and larger criminal networks.

CONCLUSION / FINAL INSIGHTS

[48:01–50:53]

The episode debunks sensationalist new claims about BTK, reminds listeners of the banality and humanity beneath infamy, and teases Ramsland’s new book on Elmer Wayne Henley/Dean Corll—a story promising fresh revelations about America’s most notorious serial murders.

For true crime fans and the curious, this episode blends journalism, firsthand expertise, and dark humor—offering a nuanced look at how myths form around infamous killers and reminding us that sometimes, the real story is far more complex than the headlines.

For more from Dr. Ramsland, find her latest book, The Serial Killer’s Apprentice, and watch for her future appearances on the show!

Last Update on the Left – Episode 12: BTK Returns w/ Katherine Ramsland

OVERVIEW

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & TIMESTAMPS

1. Setting the Scene: The “New” BTK Victims

[02:00–05:20]

Host Marcus Parks introduces Dr. Ramsland to explore the validity of newly-linked BTK victims and rumored evidence.
Dr. Ramsland: Skeptical about recent claims, referencing Sheriff Eddie Burden’s investigation in Oklahoma.
- “Everything that he's offered has an alternative interpretation… Raider's interpretation is, no, it's not me.” (02:39)
- She reveals that even with immunity offered for confessions, Rader rejects the claims, asking: "Why wouldn't I confess?... I'd go out like a fading star." (03:13, Ramsland paraphrasing Rader)

2. A Case Example: The Garber Case

[03:41–05:07]

The heavily-bound Missouri case appeared “very Raider," yet genetic genealogy and new testimony identified a different killer.
- Dr. Ramsland: “Turns out it was not Dennis Rader… despite all the things that looked very much like it was Dennis Rader, it wasn't.” (05:07)

3. Origins of the New Theories: “Bad Wash Day”

[05:36–07:37]

Originated from a cryptic ‘Bad Wash Day’ entry in Rader’s journals.
Sheriff Burden found a knotted pantyhose at Rader's old property, suggesting possible evidence.
Ramsland critiques: The pantyhose likely has mundane origins or pertain to an already-known victim. The case remains ambiguous.

4. On Coding, Puzzles, and Word Games

[08:44–12:19]

Detective teams attempted to link word puzzles sent by Rader in 2004 to victim names.
Ramsland likens this to numerology and “Torah codes”:
- “You can find anything if you try hard enough with that puzzle.” (12:08)
She challenges law enforcement to bring real charges if evidence exists, rather than stoking media speculation.

5. Law Enforcement’s Motivation vs. BTK’s Psychology

[13:25–16:55]

Dr. Ramsland questions the root of sheriff’s suspicions, suggesting media and tenuous circumstantial links over hard evidence.
Clarifies Rader’s supreme motivation: infamy, not fear of prison transfer.
- “His strongest motivation is to be famous.” (15:27)
Rader's word games and “cat-and-mouse” tactics: motivated by a sense of power over police and entertainment for his “fanbase.”

6. Journals, Literary Legacy, & How BTK Was Caught

[17:01–21:05]

Rader kept detailed journals, some used to taunt or manipulate investigators; his compendium is messy, not a coherent book.
A cyber mistake led authorities to him: he used a church computer for a disk sent to police, leaving his name on metadata.

7. The Myth of the ‘Lonely, Troubled’ Serial Killer

[21:26–23:06]

Rader’s background was “All-American” and not the usual traumatic upbringing often ascribed to serial killers.
- Ramsland: “That formula… is old from the 1990s based on very poor data… It wasn't that big of a surprise to me, the idea that a man lives a double life.” (21:47)

8. Cultural & Technological Change: Policing Then vs. Now

[32:59–33:32]

Rader’s longevity attributed more to era-specific police limitations than brilliance—“Success had a lot to do with luck,” says Ramsland.

9. BTK’s Modus Operandi & The Psychology of Bondage

[33:36–34:29]

Unique in modeling himself after serial killers via detective magazines.
The act of bondage excited Rader more than the act of killing.

10. Speculative & Ethical Segues: Prevention and the ‘Therapeutic S&M’ Thought Experiment

[35:08–37:09]

Henry imagines a world where fantasy is discharged using dolls or S&M clubs as interventions.
Ramsland references Rader’s own belief that having an outlet (e.g., S&M clubs) might’ve prevented violence.
- “He thought that would actually have made a difference for him.” (36:26)

11. Rader Activity: Dormant or Persistent?

[39:43–40:08]

Ramsland reveals Rader continued stalking—55 “projects” (potential victims)—beyond the known killings.
- “He says, I didn't stop. I just didn't succeed.” (40:08)

12. The Nature of ‘Knowing’ a Serial Killer

[27:19–29:49]

Dr. Ramsland reflects on 14 years of interaction, reading his moods, and sometimes chatting casually about TV or politics.
- “I'm sure he thinks that I've been… a good friend because I've helped to advise him.” (29:27)

13. BTK’s Private Life and Pop Culture Tastes

[30:27–31:08]

BTK enjoys American Movie Classics; especially Annette Funicello.
- “He liked Annette Funicello from the Musketeers. That was a big one for him.” (30:52)

14. Rader’s Physical Decline and Imprisonment

[42:10–42:21]

“No teeth, none. Scoliosis. So he's all bent over. He's lost something like six inches from his height… He's not in good shape. No, he knows it. He's 78. He's not young.” (42:10)

NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

On the Thrill of Fame vs. False Confessions

Dr. Ramsland on Rader's pride:

“If I had more victims… it'd be amazing. But I'm not going to confess to something I didn't do.” (03:13)
On motivation:

“His strongest motivation is to be famous.” (15:27)

On Law Enforcement’s Word-Puzzle ‘Evidence’

Critique of connecting names in puzzles:

“You can find anything if you try hard enough with that puzzle… If that is evidence, bring charges. Don't just play this out in the media.” (12:08, 12:14, 12:19)

On Stalking vs. Murder

Clarifying Rader’s “Dormancy”:

“He says, ‘I didn't stop. I just didn't succeed.’” (40:08)
On his list of ‘projects’:

“He gave me a list of 55 projects of people he stalked… They would have died had they come home…” (39:43)

On the Appeal of the Double Life

Ramsland on BTK’s non-abusive upbringing:

“His family was like all American, middle class, Kansas religious family… He didn't have abuse in his background.” (31:49, 32:39)

On Prevention Fantasies

Could outlets like S&M clubs have helped?

“He thought so… He thought that would actually have made a difference for him.” (36:26)

On Serial Killers as Ordinary People

Reflecting on serial killers as humans:

“Reminding ourselves all the time that serial killers are people… There are humans in there… imagining just… talking TV… with Raider.” (48:18–48:37, Henry Zebrowski)

HIGHLIGHTS OF EPISODE DYNAMICS

Henry’s humor: Henry brings levity and discomfort to heavy topics (“Do you think we could make robot mannequins for serial killers as a release?”).
Dr. Ramsland’s candor: Particularly in discussing the drudgery and luck involved in the BTK case, her honesty about the often-mythologized serial killer psychology stands out.
Behind-the-scenes: The hosts and Ramsland chat about coping with dark material (her answer: “I groom a horse and ride a horse,” (45:09)), and both agree that prolonged exposure to serial killers is emotionally taxing.

DR. RAMSLAND’S RECENT & UPCOMING WORK ([45:33]–[47:36])

Book just published: The Serial Killer’s Apprentice: Wayne Henley, Dean Corll, and an Unfinished American Tragedy
Upcoming projects: Ramsland will appear at CrimeCon and agrees to return to discuss her work on the Houston Mass Murders and possible connections to John Wayne Gacy and larger criminal networks.

CONCLUSION / FINAL INSIGHTS

[48:01–50:53]

The episode debunks sensationalist new claims about BTK, reminds listeners of the banality and humanity beneath infamy, and teases Ramsland’s new book on Elmer Wayne Henley/Dean Corll—a story promising fresh revelations about America’s most notorious serial murders.

For true crime fans and the curious, this episode blends journalism, firsthand expertise, and dark humor—offering a nuanced look at how myths form around infamous killers and reminding us that sometimes, the real story is far more complex than the headlines.

For more from Dr. Ramsland, find her latest book, The Serial Killer’s Apprentice, and watch for her future appearances on the show!

Last Update on the Left - Episode 12 - BTK Returns w/ Katherine Ramsland

Summary

Last Update on the Left – Episode 12: BTK Returns w/ Katherine Ramsland

OVERVIEW

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & TIMESTAMPS

1. Setting the Scene: The “New” BTK Victims

2. A Case Example: The Garber Case

3. Origins of the New Theories: “Bad Wash Day”

4. On Coding, Puzzles, and Word Games

5. Law Enforcement’s Motivation vs. BTK’s Psychology

6. Journals, Literary Legacy, & How BTK Was Caught

7. The Myth of the ‘Lonely, Troubled’ Serial Killer

8. Cultural & Technological Change: Policing Then vs. Now

9. BTK’s Modus Operandi & The Psychology of Bondage

10. Speculative & Ethical Segues: Prevention and the ‘Therapeutic S&M’ Thought Experiment

11. Rader Activity: Dormant or Persistent?

12. The Nature of ‘Knowing’ a Serial Killer

13. BTK’s Private Life and Pop Culture Tastes

14. Rader’s Physical Decline and Imprisonment

NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

On the Thrill of Fame vs. False Confessions

On Law Enforcement’s Word-Puzzle ‘Evidence’

On Stalking vs. Murder

On the Appeal of the Double Life

On Prevention Fantasies

On Serial Killers as Ordinary People

HIGHLIGHTS OF EPISODE DYNAMICS

DR. RAMSLAND’S RECENT & UPCOMING WORK ([45:33]–[47:36])

CONCLUSION / FINAL INSIGHTS

For true crime fans and the curious, this episode blends journalism, firsthand expertise, and dark humor—offering a nuanced look at how myths form around infamous killers and reminding us that sometimes, the real story is far more complex than the headlines.

Summary

Last Update on the Left – Episode 12: BTK Returns w/ Katherine Ramsland

OVERVIEW

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & TIMESTAMPS

1. Setting the Scene: The “New” BTK Victims

2. A Case Example: The Garber Case

3. Origins of the New Theories: “Bad Wash Day”

4. On Coding, Puzzles, and Word Games

5. Law Enforcement’s Motivation vs. BTK’s Psychology

6. Journals, Literary Legacy, & How BTK Was Caught

7. The Myth of the ‘Lonely, Troubled’ Serial Killer

8. Cultural & Technological Change: Policing Then vs. Now

9. BTK’s Modus Operandi & The Psychology of Bondage

10. Speculative & Ethical Segues: Prevention and the ‘Therapeutic S&M’ Thought Experiment

11. Rader Activity: Dormant or Persistent?

12. The Nature of ‘Knowing’ a Serial Killer

13. BTK’s Private Life and Pop Culture Tastes

14. Rader’s Physical Decline and Imprisonment

NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

On the Thrill of Fame vs. False Confessions

On Law Enforcement’s Word-Puzzle ‘Evidence’

On Stalking vs. Murder

On the Appeal of the Double Life

On Prevention Fantasies

On Serial Killers as Ordinary People

HIGHLIGHTS OF EPISODE DYNAMICS

DR. RAMSLAND’S RECENT & UPCOMING WORK ([45:33]–[47:36])

CONCLUSION / FINAL INSIGHTS

For true crime fans and the curious, this episode blends journalism, firsthand expertise, and dark humor—offering a nuanced look at how myths form around infamous killers and reminding us that sometimes, the real story is far more complex than the headlines.