Last Update on the Left - Episode 4 - Columbine Revisited

Summary

Summary of "Last Update on the Left - Episode 4 - Columbine Revisited"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Last Update on the Left - Episode 4 - Columbine Revisited
• Host/Author: The Last Podcast Network
• Release Date: May 23, 2025
• Description: The Last Podcast on the Left covers all the horrors our world has to offer, both imagined and real. From demons and slashers to cults and serial killers, The Last Podcast is guaranteed to satisfy your bloodlust.

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1. Introduction and Acknowledgment of Absence [02:23 – 04:26]

The episode begins with hosts Marcus Parks and Ed Larson acknowledging the absence of their co-host, Henry Zabrowski, due to the passing of Henry's father. They express their condolences and announce that, in Henry's stead, they are airing two update episodes instead of the regular format.

Notable Quote:

• Marcus Parks [02:48]: "Unfortunately, today, though, we are missing our boy, Henry Zabrowski. His... In case you didn't know, Henry's father passed this week, so we're giving him the week off."

2. Introduction to Update Episodes and Upcoming Content [03:32 – 04:22]

Marcus explains the concept of "Last Update on the Left," highlighting that these updates were previously SiriusXM exclusives but are now available to the broader audience. They tease an upcoming extensive history series, generating excitement among listeners.

Notable Quote:

• Marcus Parks [03:38]: "We did our episodes in 2015. So it was before that included dialog."

3. Honoring Henry with a Discussion on Columbine [04:26 – 14:03]

In honor of Henry, the hosts delve into a revisitation of their previous coverage of the Columbine massacre, reflecting on how their understanding and perspectives have evolved over nearly a decade. They discuss how initial narratives portrayed Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold as a dynamic duo, with Eric as the primary aggressor and Dylan as the more passive accomplice.

Notable Quotes:

• Henry Zabrowski [06:16]: "It was Columbine. Welcome to last update on the left, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Marcus Parks."
• Marcus Parks [09:44]: "And what his supposition Was with the book was that Dylan Klebold was kind of a puppet of Eric Harris. Yes. Eric Harris was the aggressor. Eric Harris was a psychopath."

4. Analysis of Dave Cullen's "Columbine" [14:03 – 26:05]

Marcus summarizes Dave Cullen's book, which redefines the roles of Harris and Klebold, challenging earlier misconceptions. The hosts debate the extent to which Dylan Klebold was an active participant versus being influenced by Eric Harris. They acknowledge that while both were troubled, Eric's psychopathic tendencies played a significant role in orchestrating the massacre.

Notable Quotes:

• Marcus Parks [09:44]: "Eric Harris was a psychopath, according to Dave Colin. And that Dylan Klebold was extraordinarily depressed."
• Henry Zabrowski [10:16]: "And the time when we. When I read the book, like, I was so I had my mind blown because I had heard the original sort of pitch about Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold and we all sort of internalized it as a country because we were forced to the idea that these were two misunderstood goth kids that were bullied and pushed to the point of murder."

5. Personal Reflections and High School Memories [11:25 – 17:54]

Ed Larson shares his personal memories from high school during the Columbine aftermath, discussing the anti-goth sentiment that surged and the resulting stigmatization. Henry recounts his experience with a canceled ninth-grade play, emphasizing the personal impact of the tragedy on students and extracurricular activities.

Notable Quotes:

• Ed Larson [11:25]: "Very much so. I was in high school when this happened. I was a junior in high school. I was in student council actually when this happened."
• Henry Zabrowski [14:07]: "This is the quote from the actual. From the reporter Brian Gilmer, we don't remember from back in the day. So this is what Henry Zabrowski said."

6. Media Portrayal and Myths Surrounding Columbine [26:05 – 35:36]

The hosts critique the media's initial portrayal of the Columbine shooters, arguing that simplistic narratives like "bullied goth kids" overlook the complex motivations and psychological profiles of Harris and Klebold. They discuss subsequent works, including "A Mother's Reckoning," which provide deeper insights into Klebold's mental state, challenging previous assumptions.

Notable Quotes:

• Marcus Parks [30:46]: "I know I. You know I certainly did."
• Henry Zabrowski [31:00]: "You know, homicidal actions change everything."

7. The Role of the Internet and Social Media in Mass Shootings [42:11 – 67:03]

Marcus and Henry explore the influence of the internet and social media in the rise of mass shootings post-Columbine. They argue that the digital age has facilitated the glorification of shooters, creating communities that inadvertently encourage such behaviors. They also touch upon the lack of a robust mental health infrastructure to address these issues effectively.

Notable Quotes:

• Henry Zabrowski [66:59]: "Yes."
• Ed Larson [67:02]: "Because the human brain just seems like it's not supposed to handle this many points of view at once."

8. Case Study: Sol Pais Incident [50:18 – 52:00]

The hosts discuss the case of Sol Pais, a woman infatuated with Columbine who purchased a shotgun months before the anniversary of the massacre. They analyze the warning signs and the challenges law enforcement faces in preventing such incidents, highlighting systemic issues in tracking and addressing potential threats.

Notable Quotes:

• Marcus Parks [50:54]: "According to a CNN article, some of the journals are barely legible."
• Henry Zabrowski [51:51]: "She committed suicide, but also I'm glad she did that instead of killing other people."

9. Final Reflections and Conclusions [67:00 – 71:44]

In their concluding remarks, the hosts reflect on the persistent nature of mass shootings in America, attributing it to factors like the internet's influence, inadequate mental health support, and societal issues. They express a sense of helplessness while advocating for a deeper understanding and systemic changes to prevent future tragedies.

Notable Quotes:

• Henry Zabrowski [68:10]: "And no proper mental health infrastructure. There's nowhere for. There's no."
• Marcus Parks [67:00]: "But I do want to acknowledge that like yes. Like I. We understand that Dave Cullen's book had a firm perspective and we just kind of went with the perspective."

10. Closing Remarks [71:06 – 72:24]

The episode wraps up with light-hearted banter among the hosts, touching on personal anecdotes and teasing future discussions. They encourage listeners to engage with their content across various platforms and express gratitude for the audience's support.

Notable Quotes:

• Henry Zabrowski [71:08]: "Thank you for enjoying the Last Update on the Left."
• Marcus Parks [72:22]: "Day with Target Circle 360 restrictions apply."

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Key Takeaways:

• The episode serves as both a tribute to their absent co-host and a deep dive into revisiting and reassessing the Columbine massacre.
• The hosts critically analyze past narratives, incorporating new research and personal insights to provide a more nuanced understanding.
• They highlight the enduring impact of Columbine on media portrayals, societal attitudes towards bullying and mental health, and the evolution of mass shootings in the digital age.
• Personal stories and reflections add depth to the discussion, illustrating the pervasive and long-lasting effects of such tragedies on individuals and communities.
• The conversation underscores the complexity of preventing mass shootings, emphasizing the need for comprehensive mental health support and responsible media representation.

This summary encapsulates the episode's comprehensive exploration of the Columbine massacre, blending factual analysis with personal reflections to offer listeners a thorough understanding of the topic's intricacies and lasting significance.

Transcript

[Henry Zabrowski]

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[Marcus Parks]

They believe in simple nutrition without the BS. That's why they said no to artificial ingredients and yes to deliver intentional transparent nutrition. And try their original 12 gram protein bar, the nut butter and oat bar or minis. RXBar, the proud sponsor of no BS. Use code RXBar on RXBar.com for 25% off, subject to full terms and conditions and to change. Valid until September 30, 2025 and may not be combined with other offers. See rxbar.com for full details and limitations. You know what song I got stuck in my head?

[Ed Larson]

What?

[Marcus Parks]

Crocodile Rock.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, it's.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah, that's a good one to get stuck in your head.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Remember when we were young?

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah. I always think of NFL Rocks, which is this VHS I had when I was. When I was a kid. And it was basically just big hits and touchdowns and it was like a two hour music video and they used Crocodile Rock. That was the halftime show and it was just Crocodile Rock and a bunch of cheerleaders. So Crocodile Rock was like burnt into my head because it was like the first time I saw lots of ladies.

[Marcus Parks]

It's incredible that Crocodile Rock doesn't make you think of crocodiles, considering how much you love the gators.

[Ed Larson]

I love gators. You know, crocodiles, you're cool, too. Don't think I disrespect you, but I'm a gator boy first. But you know, crocodiles do rock. You know, I don't know what to do about it, you know, but I fed a crocodile not too long ago. Maximo. Yeah, yeah, that ate a rat, dude. He had a couple rats. You know, the. You know, crocodiles in zoos, they don't. They like three rats a week.

[Marcus Parks]

That's it.

[Ed Larson]

17 foot crocodile, that's all they. Isn't that crazy?

[Marcus Parks]

My God. Welcome to last podcast. On the left, ladies and gentlemen. My mind is blown. They're only eating three rats a week. My name's Marcus Parks. I'm here with a man that has all the croc facts, all the gator facts. Ed Larson.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, Watch out for those crocodiles. Gators are bees. Crocodiles or wasps. White Anglo Saxon Protestants.

[Marcus Parks]

Unfortunately, today, though, we are missing our boy, Henry Zabrowski. His. In case you didn't know, Henry's father passed this week, so we're giving him the week off. And instead of a new episode, what we're going to be giving you guys this week is two update episodes. We released one on Monday. That would be the. The Infield Poltergeist. And today we're going to be.

[Ed Larson]

You know, I don't think they did it.

[Marcus Parks]

You don't think. You don't think so?

[Ed Larson]

No.

[Marcus Parks]

The kids.

[Ed Larson]

No. Yeah. No, no. The ghosts, I think. I think they're innocent. This ghost slander has gone too far.

[Marcus Parks]

That means that the kids did it.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Goes completely against what you said in the update episode.

[Ed Larson]

I don't remember.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I guess to explain a little bit about the update episodes, what we're doing with that. Of course, we did Last Update on the Left as a SiriusXM exclusive all last year, but now we're able to release those episodes for free to the entire audience on our main feed. So what we're doing is we're basically. When we have a week where we don't have a last podcast. Classic. The Big Sick.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. Your Patty Hearst, your Batavias.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And the massive one that we've got started, we got a big history series coming up next week that I am so pumped for. I start working on it.

[Ed Larson]

I've been more excited for anything, to be honest with you. Yeah, yeah. This is the top banana for me.

[Marcus Parks]

This one's such a big one. It's got so much history. It's good. It's so thick, you're not going to be able to swallow it.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah. Lots of, you know, headshots. That's a little teaser. We got some head shots.

[Marcus Parks]

It's a really good teaser and it works in a lot of different levels, really, on this story. So on the weeks that we don't have, like a big, thick media episode, we're going to give you guys an update episode to kind of fill in the gap. So thank you very much, everybody, for. For understanding this week. We appreciate the outpouring of support that you guys have given Henry. Henry very much appreciates it as well.

[Ed Larson]

Jackie as well.

[Marcus Parks]

And Jackie absolutely appreciates it is.

[Ed Larson]

It's a hard time. And, uh, you never know when these things are going to happen. And so shout out to Big Henry. And in honor of you, Big Henry, we're going to talk about your most Favorite thing in the world.

[Marcus Parks]

Columbine. Yeah. I don't know if it was. It might have been his favorite flower. I don't know.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It could have been.

[Ed Larson]

If he was there to stop him. If he was the cop on campus.

[Marcus Parks]

It was 1999. No cops on campus.

[Ed Larson]

We did. We had him.

[Marcus Parks]

Really?

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. I had cops on campus the whole time.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Wow.

[Ed Larson]

But also, like, you went to a tiny school. I went to a school of, like, 700 kids in my graduating class.

[Marcus Parks]

Jesus. Twice the size of my town.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. Yeah. So that's, you know, we were huge.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no. Rochester ISD in Texas did not have any cops. We had one cop in town, actually. You know what? I take that back. We did have a cop on campus because our town's cop was also the school maintenance man.

[Ed Larson]

You know, you got to have lots of jobs.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. You really do.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. Lots of hats, but they're all covered in.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, enjoy this update episode, everybody. And we will be back next week with a brand new episode. Some thick history stuff. Can't wait for it. But thank you very much and we'll see y' all soon.

[Ed Larson]

4:20, please. Up.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

That'S when the cannibalism started. Last update on the left.

[Marcus Parks]

That's how you want to start? I had a whole. We. We had a fine bit already worked out, and you made us restart so you could turkey gobble.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I'm getting ready to talk because this is going to be a serious one of these, right? Is this serious today?

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, it's going to be serious. Ish.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, it's Columbine. Welcome to last update on the left, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Marcus Parks.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I'm not happy about Columbine. Henry Zabrowski.

[Ed Larson]

I'm Ed Larson. And Columbine is bad.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You know. You know what? Thank you. First of all. First of all, it's just nice to set the tone. Up top.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. Baseline. Columbine was bad.

[Henry Zabrowski]

The massacre.

[Marcus Parks]

The massacre, the shooting.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Not the city.

[Ed Larson]

The town's fine.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I don't know. I've never been to the town.

[Ed Larson]

They're scarred, but they're fine.

[Marcus Parks]

The flower is also fine. You know the Columbine is the state flower of Colorado. Yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You taught me this the other day. And I was just as fascinated then. Yeah. As I am today. Now. I will say we covered. This is our update of our Columbine coverage from almost a decade ago.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. Think maybe more than a decade ago. Getting real damn close.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It is not crazy.

[Marcus Parks]

It really is. Now I remember we recorded. I was recording the Cowman album that we released in many, many years ago. Almost a decade ago. Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And you guys did such a good job that nothing like this ever happened again.

[Henry Zabrowski]

What was really important about what we do, what we do here as an organization is we stop crime before it begins. Yes. And that's why, as you've noticed. Yeah. The. The incredible decline in mass shootings across this country ever since we put out our episodes.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But a lot of we did get some things incorrect, which is why we've decided to update those episodes. So, number one, you want to go back and listen to what we talked about back there? Might help.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Because I don't even. I don't know if we need to recap the Columbine massacre. We know what happened on 420. 1999.

[Ed Larson]

Man, that was my second 420.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, I know.

[Ed Larson]

It was fucking. I was having a great time. I skipped school, by the way. All the. All the kids, all the sodas left. They all skipped school, and they weren't there. But I've skipped school. I'm fucking hanging out, I'm smoking with my boys. And we put on the tv.

[Henry Zabrowski]

My fucking buzz just got fucking majorly harsh.

[Ed Larson]

No.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Literally, everyone's just like, I'm going home. I'm going home. And so we now know that it was Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold. I don't think we need to go through all of the various details that we covered from back in the day.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, really, I. I read back through the script that we had. This was actually before we started doing super detailed episodes where we went through, like, point by point, bowl blow by blow, everything that happened. Like we just did with the Anders Brevik series, where we went through the entire thing. With Columbine, we just. And this is how we sort of used to do the shows back in the day. Is this, like. We worked off of Assumed Knowledge a lot, where we just, you know, assumed everyone listening. Like, you know what Columbine is. If you don't, these guys can let you know. It's like a paragraph and then going into, like, sort of like, analysis of the situation, talking about what people believed at the time and what was the actual truth. And that was sort of the tack that we took with it. We based a lot of the episode not just on one book. We also used a few articles. But a lot of it was based on a book called Columbine by this guy named Dave Cullen, which is an incredible book. It's fantastically written. And what his supposition Was with the book was that Dylan Klebold was kind of a puppet of Eric Harris. Yes. Eric Harris was the aggressor. Eric Harris was a psychopath. He was the one that was a little more handsome. Dylan Klebold was the one with the big moon face.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And that they were both ugly. They were both ugly men. Yes.

[Ed Larson]

But one has to be uglier.

[Marcus Parks]

One has to be uglier. And Dylan Klebold was the uglier one. Yeah, definitely. But Eric Harris was a psychopath, according to Dave Colin. And that Dylan Klebold was extraordinarily depressed. And that Eric Harris kind of used Dylan Klebold as kind of a little assistant, someone to kind of cheer him on while he was doing it. And that Dylan Klebold was sort of a passive character. Yeah, passive character in this. That just sort of went along with the whole thing.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And the time when we. When I read the book, like, I was so I had my mind blown because I had heard the original sort of pitch about Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold and we all sort of internalized it as a country because we were forced to the idea that these were two misunderstood goth kids that were bullied and pushed to the point of murder. And then when Dave Cullen's book came out, that refuted that in a way that we all thought was really closer to the truth, which I does it does prove to still be closer to the truth, which is the idea that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were aggressors and were kids that. Yeah, yeah, sure they were bullied, but they were also bullies into themselves. And that Eric Harris was a little bit more of a ladies man, which is one of the corrections that we're going to get into because that's not real. But like certain things was like, it pushed the spectrum to the other side where it wasn't just a bunch of like nerds push too far. And then it was a thing about bullying. And then also still kind of created an anti nerd movement across the country. Anti goth movement, dude.

[Ed Larson]

Very much so. I was in high school when this happened. I was a junior in high school. I was in student council actually when this happened. And I remember them all sitting at the next day when I decided to come back to school and out of my stone stupor. And I remember them all sitting.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I must go. The children need my leadership.

[Ed Larson]

Honestly, I probably said something very similar. And I remember they had like, we had a two hour meeting with like. Like cops came in and like they.

[Marcus Parks]

Sat down studio and this is in Boca Raton, Florida.

[Ed Larson]

Boca Raton, Florida. And I remember, and during our meeting, like, they made us. We had lunch, like, in the classroom. And like, while we're doing, some kid dressed up in a black trench coat stood up on a. In the cafeteria. It was like Trishco Mavia. And then, you know, and then he later got his ass kicked by all the black kids. But the. But then. But it was unfortunately a stain on the goth community, of course. And like. And like. And everyone hated the goths for a little while.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, let's go back and revisit some stuff.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, I want to revisit a ninth grade Henry Sprowski, because.

[Marcus Parks]

And then we'll get to the goths.

[Henry Zabrowski]

One of the. Truly, honestly, one of the worst repercussions of Columbine, besides the death and this wave of anti gothing, is that the play I was in, the ninth grade was canceled. One that I was in. It was a play by. Which is like, also interesting by the very talented Woody Allen called Don't Drink the Water, which is a play that we did at the time and very appropriate. The play was canceled because there was a gunshot and a bomb in it. And it was coming out that summer, the same summer as when Columbine happened. And a little truth teller by the name of Henry Zabrowski, a little too real for high school, was interviewed, asking about the implications of this interview by.

[Marcus Parks]

A local news station, Tampa Bay Times. Are you serious?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, I want to know, like, I see you've got it pulled up in front of you. How are you going. Are you going to read this in 9th grade Henry Zabrowski voice. Are you going to read this in such a way as to make you sound better?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, I'm going to read it exactly as I was delivered. They think it's Harry. Boo. That's Jackie. That's my sister. That's you, That's Jackie. I was the president. I got to be president of the drama club. You cannot do that while being inarticulate.

[Ed Larson]

You were president freshman year.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, I was already being scouted.

[Marcus Parks]

No, so you was not president at the time.

[Henry Zabrowski]

They already knew.

[Marcus Parks]

All right.

[Ed Larson]

I got so many lies in this immediately, they got pushed right to the front.

[Henry Zabrowski]

So this is like. So there's a lot of talk about here. So it was canceled. And then they decided to talk to me. So this is the quote from the actual. From the reporter Brian Gilmer, we don't remember from back in the day. So this is what Henry Zabrowski said. We see Basically, why they did it. I'm angry still. I poured a lot of work into the play, and some of my grades suffered. It was just important to all of us. Yes. They all watched, and I stood forward. They said. And then Henry Zabrowski then said, the administration knew that they might be taking it too far, but they said it might be better to take it too far. And so, yeah, not only was I a warrior for the first. Not only was I a warrior for free speech, but also I reached across the aisle in a John McCain way. So even as a ninth grader, I was a maverick.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And I'm gonna. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna read it how I'd imagine it actually sounds it. We basically see why they did it. I'm angry still.

[Ed Larson]

I put a lot of work into.

[Henry Zabrowski]

The play, and some of my grades suffered.

[Marcus Parks]

It was just important to all of us.

[Henry Zabrowski]

See, I am the source. So you see, now you really got to see what happens in media now. This is all this entire little play act that these two did because they weren't actually making fun of me. This was a play act to talk about the subjective nature of information and how it's represented by the media and how they. And you really have worked really hard on it. You see, again, it's about how. But then when you hear me right, imagine American flag behind me. Norma Ray wasn't wearing a bra, standing on top of the table going, union, Union. All. Everybody was like, that's when they were asking me to unionize. And I said, no, dictatorship.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And then I came forward and they all chose me because you'll see, there were seniors in that play that could have been talking to the reporter.

[Ed Larson]

I just think your drama teacher wanted to go to Nassau that summer. It was like, oh, this seems like a great opportunity to cancel this.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No. Mrs. Webster is quoted in the article talking about how she fought for us.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow. Mrs. Webster. How was. Mrs. Webster?

[Henry Zabrowski]

She. We got. It was. We had a strange relationship.

[Marcus Parks]

House. I've never heard this before. House. How strange.

[Henry Zabrowski]

We had a strange relationship.

[Ed Larson]

She didn't like that you were so outgoing and cursed occasionally.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, the thing was, is that much like an aforementioned. Let's just say the former President of the United States, I was so popular, I was inevitable. And so the problem was, is that they could not stop me. They couldn't stop the train right from going.

[Marcus Parks]

You're dodging the question, though.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, I'm just. Strange.

[Marcus Parks]

What strange?

[Henry Zabrowski]

It's exactly the reason why traditional media doesn't Want to let me inside of its halls, because what they're afraid of is that I will then change everything from the inside of it.

[Marcus Parks]

But that's not answering the question of what kind of strange relationship you had with Mrs. Watson.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Sometimes Mrs. Webster, sometimes the student becomes a master.

[Ed Larson]

She hated you because you were full of yourself.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We were fine.

[Marcus Parks]

Okay.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But it was weird. I got. It's. It's, like, not interesting. It's hard to describe what our relationship was like, because towards my senior year, because when I was president of the drama club and then became like, it did sort of feel like I was building sort of a little regime around me.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You know, and I think that people were getting angry. The talent show. And then, you know, my tastes have not changed all that much.

[Marcus Parks]

Right.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But I also had the power of the assistant principal, who was on my side. And then we would get together. He would pull me from class so that we could coordinate because we obviously did big. We always would do a big lip sync the popular dudes. And the assistant principal would do a lip sync at the end of the talent show.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And so we'd always do like we did in sync. We did Full Monty, which is actually. Now I realize that's. That's weird.

[Ed Larson]

We did Backstreet Boys.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Full Monty was very popular back then.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah. But then, like. But I danced the Full Monty stripping dance with my assistant principal.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, interesting.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. We took our pants off. Seems illegal, you know. We did it.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, 1999, 2000, was it. The turn of the millennium was a strange time for us all.

[Ed Larson]

My drama teacher junior year pulled me aside and said, you are keeping me away from having a clean drama department.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Flies from your grave.

[Ed Larson]

Hey, everybody. How you doing? Dead here. And you know what I want to talk about? I want to talk about Quince. Oh, man, do they get me, Randy.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh.

[Ed Larson]

All those linen shirts rubbing up against my chest, against my legs. I got their underwear on my body. I got their socks, hat, sunglasses. I'm head to toe a Quince prince. And you know when that's going to be even better? When summer hits.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh.

[Ed Larson]

In the flow. The air going straight through my cotton silk polo or my European linen beach shorts just whizzing through, checking me out. It's like, hey, how you doing, Ed? Are you having fun in there? Not too sweaty. I bet you like me. And I said, yes, Mr. Wind, I like you just fine. But I wouldn't like you as much if I wasn't wearing quince so elevate your closet with quince. Go to quince.com last for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C U. Last to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com last oh yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

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[Marcus Parks]

All right?

[Henry Zabrowski]

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[Marcus Parks]

So when we covered the Columbine series, like I know with, with Dave Collins book, like some people have, have a huge problem with it. I don't think it's that big of a deal. They have a huge problem with it because I think they want Dylan Klebold to have much more responsibility than Dave Cullen paints him out to be. Because in the time when we recorded the episode, if I remember correctly, like we sympathized with Dylan Klebold a little bit. You know, like, I think, I think I myself said, but for the grace of God go I, you know, with Dylan Klebold, like being a very depressed kid, being a very depressed high school kid. And you know, just someone like Eric Harris. If there was like a character like that, you know, scooping up a depressed kid and turning him into a killing machine. And you know, the refutations I totally get. I totally get because people have come out and like said like Dylan Klebold's mother and be like, no, my son was a dangerous individual.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, that's the big difference is that her book A Mother's Reckoning came out in 2016. We did our episodes in 2015. So it was before that included dialog.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I also partially think the Reason why people just get upset across the board. Because this is an extremely touchy subject.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Kids. Kids killing kids. Makes nobody, like, super happy. No, it's, again, not a blast. Not a lot to joke about. But the. I think a lot of people then obviously attach super hyper emotional issues to this.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And I also think that there are people that want. Unfortunately, this is my pushback. They want the nerds being pushed to the edge narrative to be real. They want that to be real. I think a part of the reason why people are mad about the Dave Cullen thing, it's just more that Dave Cullen pushed it all the way to the other side. And it wasn't until a mother's reckoning came out that we really saw her deep dive into her son's own journals that showed that Dylan Klebold was a lot more of an active member of the two then it was kind of shown in the beginning.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, there wasn't a ton of. As far as, like, the bully narrative goes, like, there is some pushback on that. That's not a huge thing.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It's not a huge thing. I'm just saying why people have the emotional reaction. You need a reason.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Henry Zabrowski]

They want a reason. Everybody wants a reason.

[Marcus Parks]

Because they said, like, sue talked about Dylan asking, like, his father, like, what to do about younger kids that are picking on him. And during sophomore year, Dylan said something to Tom about, like, hating the jocks. They don't bother me. I'm six' four. But they sure give Eric hell.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, but that's the. Yeah, Eric was a piece of shit.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, Eric was a fucking asshole. Yeah, he was an absolute fucking dickhead.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I will not take that off.

[Marcus Parks]

No.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Asshole dickhead that technically, I'm glad he's dead. I mean, I'm glad they're both fucking dead. But the thing is that the dick. They did not receive any more bullying than anybody else. That was a standard fringe member of high school society.

[Marcus Parks]

They see, received far less bullying than the goth kids. Because that was the horrible thing about it, is that they were the ones who bullied the goth kids. I mean, the F word thrown around quite a bit at the goth kids. The actual trench coat mafia, because it all came from, like, it was. It's such a dumb high school thing. One goth kid bought a black duster for a Halloween costume, for a fucking Dracula costume, thought it was super cool, started wearing it to school. The other goth kids started wearing their trench coats, too. And they're like, fuck, yeah, Trench coat mafia, bro. The reason why Dylan and Eric wore trench coats so they could hide their guns. Yeah. Right. So they could carry weapons. And also because they thought it looked super cool, they didn't have anything. Like they did at one point, like I think Eric floated like the idea to one of those kids were like, man, wouldn't it be like awesome if we just took guns and like shot up the entire school?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But the kid didn't bite at all. He's like, I'm not going to do that. Yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Because he floated it around. He was basically trying to see if there was somebody else who would bite.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

To help him. Because Eric Harris was a pussy and he didn't want to do it alone. I do think that that's a thing. He didn't want to do it alone. You wanted, he wanted his own self fashioned assistant.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, he did. And. But he groomed, he did groom Dylan Klebold for it. But that's the thing. The point that is made that I think is, it's a great point and I don't think that we brought it up in the show is that, you know, he could have told somebody at any time. Dylan could have told someone at any time.

[Ed Larson]

Well, back then this is like the first time this really happened. No one thought anyone would really do anything like this.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, there had been a lot of.

[Henry Zabrowski]

We've had a lot of mass shootings across the history of America.

[Ed Larson]

But not, but not like this.

[Marcus Parks]

Not, not kids shooting other kids in high school, I think there.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Except for the I Hate Mondays girl.

[Marcus Parks]

But yeah, but that was an anomaly. And it was quite a long time before that.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It was.

[Ed Larson]

And the University of Texas, of course.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And that was in the 60s. Yeah, but like high school kids killing other high school kids. Like that was because leading up to the shooting like there was a lot of people that had reported Eric Harris to the police. Specifically this kid I think is. His name was Brooks. Like Eric Harris had like directly threatened this kid on his fucking website. Which is probably like geocities.com/south beach/4748. Yeah, dude, like fucking. He was a Geocities site definitely. Or Angel Fire or some shit like that. The type of websites used to code yourself. Yeah, but the cops, they reported that he had been reported for making pipe bombs. He'd been reported for a lot of. And the cops just sat on it. They didn't, they just didn't do anything.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And we saw those kids being kids and kids saying up. They didn't. Like on one hand they're trying to. Their hands are in that way. Tied. Because it's like, now they come down on you like a pile of bricks. But back in the day, it was way more like, you know, like, they weren't trying to over police the kids.

[Ed Larson]

Kids.

[Henry Zabrowski]

They were trying to, like, you know, let kids be kids. Also no money, which we discover is a pattern with police. They never really want to get involved in a family. Yeah. As much as they can because of how complicated it is and how much like, everybody has to go to court. Yeah. Now. And no one wants to deal with it. So.

[Ed Larson]

Well, that's also where the most incidents occurs in domestic situations.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yes. And that they. And a lot of times, what do they do? They're like, you must press charges. We have to separate you. We have to. So it's either, like, it either goes to. There's no, like 4 out of 10 on domestic violence. It has to either go like 10 out of 10. We're taking one of you out of the situation, taking you to jail, or we're, like, leaving. We're just gonna be all right. Bye. You know, and so there's nothing they can do. And so something like this. Our mistake really was painting or just fully like, this idea that Dylan Klebold was like, just some coasting person.

[Marcus Parks]

And I think it was because we may have identified with him too much.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I think that we view especially as younger.

[Marcus Parks]

I know I.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Men.

[Marcus Parks]

I know I certainly did.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. And as younger men, I feel like that was. It was more like you could see more of this. But it's. As I get older, the more I separate from that. Understand that, like, homicidal actions change everything.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You know, like, of course. But it's. It's really like that point of it being like. Like, everybody gets bullied. Everybody gets treated like shit. I don't know. I don't know anybody who wasn't. I know the people that weren't bullied then just got, like, to be frank, ugly. Every. They just, like, grew up into some, like, they were like, anybody who was hot middle school became fucking gross piece of shit later on. Like, they all turned to just Facebook blobs later on down the line. And so. But for me, I look at this and you're. I think at the time I thought that that made more sense. And now it does not make sense to me Now I look at him be like, he must have had, like, it takes two.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it does. And my understanding of things, like, at 41 is so much larger than I.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Know how much more I.

[Marcus Parks]

At 31, also, I know how Much more.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I don't understand.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, exactly.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Fucking 40 versus then.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. I mean, because at 31, you know, I was a lot closer to adolescence than I am now.

[Ed Larson]

So romanticized it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. And still, like looked at that time like in. Yeah, a little bit more like rose colored glasses. And now I understand a lot more about psychopathology. I understand a lot more about the brains of these people and their. And what they do. And I have a lot less sympathy. It's just that, you know, but there was one day when, you know, just the moment it crosses over into homicidal nature, then, you know, no sympathy whatsoever. Yeah, none at all. Like, you just lose all of it. The moment you do, the moment you hurt someone else.

[Ed Larson]

It's like any form of violence, in my opinion. Yeah, you know, you. You know, that's. That's my opinion.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And there was also, you know, other. In Collins book, like, you know, things that, like, because he. Colin made sure to say that Eric Harris was a ladies man.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, that was the whole thing. He was pushing it to the other side.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, he was pushing to the other side. The Eric Harris, like, was very. Actually very popular. And he pushed. He just pushed it too far. He pushed it over, like saying that like he got days all the time, but based on his journal entries, like, Eric likely died a virgin. But on the other hand, like, that doesn't. Just because you died a virgin doesn't mean that you weren't going on a lot of dates. I was going on a ton of dates before I lost my virginity.

[Ed Larson]

Oh. Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I think it was more so that he was an aggressive loser, like in the aggressive loser category in high school. But still girls were just saying the words that they thought he was cute.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Because he was kind of a traditional. Especially if you are. If you are an elder millennial. There was a style during this time period, like 1999. I remember because it was like right after I moved from New York to Florida. And in New York we were all still like in 1989. You know, I mean, like, it was way like.

[Marcus Parks]

Like you all look like you were in the Beastie Boys.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Yes.

[Ed Larson]

Leather jackets.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You know, I had my starter jacket, my Looney Tunes dressed as rappers.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, we all heard. Yeah, we had that.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

That was, that was very popular.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But then that kind of changed when all of a sudden I moved to Florida and it was like that Abercrombie and Fitch style. Pacsun, all that stuff just took over Janko Jeans, everybody. And Eric Harris was like a really good example of the style of dude that every girl was kind of talking about at the time. As far as I was concerned was this like, like thin, spiky blonde hair, like kind of like looks kind of like the bully from kind of a dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like kind of a prick. Like people, I mean, I hate to say it, girl, like, everybody at the time thought a prick was like, super sexy.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm wrong.

[Ed Larson]

It was a rough time. 1999 to like 2005 was like a rough time psychologically. A young man in society.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It was intense.

[Ed Larson]

We were taught all the wrong.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yes, yes, we were. And so Eric Harris, I think, was a. Just a full example of that and that it was just more that Dylan Klebold was extremely ugly.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And Eric Harris was just kind of vaguely normal looking. And so some girls just said that he was cute. And that's where. That's what he took off running with that. And then also Cullen kind of portrayed the Klebold and Harris family is a little bit richer.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Than they probably were.

[Marcus Parks]

Far more. Yeah. It's like, it's small, factual inaccuracies. Like he would say that, you know, Klebold's mother was Jewish when Klebold's mother was a fat fact. Half Jewish. You know, he would say that they were wealthy when really their house was large, but it was a fixer upper with a lot of rats.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Also.

[Ed Larson]

Columbine's a nice place.

[Marcus Parks]

Columbine's a very, very nice place.

[Ed Larson]

Someone who came from Boca Raton. A lot of people go poor trying to live in these nice places.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, of course. My parents live in a part of Florida that for when we were struggling in New York. We then moved to Florida. And then it was a. We moved to a nice neighborhood in Florida because we could afford it versus our bad neighborhood in New York York. And then we. But we were then weirdly not like the poor people in a very rich neighborhood.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Because that was one of those sleeper Florida neighborhoods where it was filled with extremely rich people.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

That same thing happened to us.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I was down the street from Hulk Hogan. Oh, really?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

I had Mike Tyson.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, wow.

[Ed Larson]

He tried to bring tigers. They're like, mike, you got to get.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Rid of the tigers.

[Ed Larson]

Magical.

[Henry Zabrowski]

We know Mike.

[Marcus Parks]

I had a guy that everyone called Bo Deadly.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, really?

[Marcus Parks]

He was weird. And when I used to ride by his house on my bike, he'd sick his dogs on me and laugh and Laugh.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I'm sorry. Get him. He's mostly bones.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no, I told this story before. Yeah. His son was arrested for raping his grandmother.

[Ed Larson]

Wow.

[Henry Zabrowski]

In Christ.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Why are we covering that?

[Marcus Parks]

No, I grew up in it. And that's the crazy thing about it, is that, like, I think I grew up in, like, such a dark, weird place that, like, Columbine was a blip. Oh, yeah. Barely. Like, it barely registered. No one talking. Like, everyone just kind of went, like. And then no one. But, like, there was no. Like, the school didn't address it. Nobody talked to us about it. It was not in any way whatsoever.

[Ed Larson]

Team of grief counselors.

[Henry Zabrowski]

We did, too. Yeah. They all came onto the. I don't know why. Yeah, they were.

[Marcus Parks]

We're in the fucking class, you know, we're like. We look out into the fucking. I could look out the window and see a gun in, like, my friend's car. Like, on the back, on the fucking. On the rack in his truck. Like, you could see guns. See guns.

[Ed Larson]

Very different.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Very, very different. But, yeah, just barely registered, like.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. There's just a guy with a piece of wheat in his mouth just going like. Yep. This. They just cuddling themselves. All right, children, now sit down. Let me tell you about why we should have won the civil.

[Marcus Parks]

No, it was.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

No one really paid much attention to it at all. I just remember I'd read about it in the paper, but nobody really talked about it. It was very bizarre. It was very strange.

[Henry Zabrowski]

My play was canceled. My play. I had spent months. My schoolwork suffered, and you know how important I took my schoolwork. Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

It was finally an excuse for my Ds.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Honestly, it was really exciting. Like Columbine.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Columbine's really up my schoolwork. Yeah. Yeah. I'm. I'm dramatized. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't think it's the difference between, like, going to a really small school and going to, like, gigantic. Like, you guys went to Gigantic school.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. Over 700 kids in my class.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And that's 400 more people than were in my town.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, or 300 more.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. My school's population was like your football game.

[Marcus Parks]

I know. Actually, our football game would probably be something like. Like, 80. Like, 80 people if. If that. If that many. Maybe a hundred.

[Ed Larson]

I think 45, 50 kids in every class I had.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah, dude. I used to regularly perform in front of, like, a thousand children.

[Ed Larson]

I think about that all the time. I used to do the pep rallies. I was like. I would do an hour.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, No, I used to just improv in front of a thousand people that.

[Marcus Parks]

Like 50 or 60 kids in like the entire high school.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Damn.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And the whole high school. Yeah. It was nuts, man. It was weird. And I guess maybe because everybody knew everybody else, like, and that's the thing. Even I was like the weird kid. Like, for the pep rallies. Like, I don't. Like, every class got to draw their own poster. And I always drew these like crazy violent posters. Like, just like super fucking violent. And like, it would be like all the rest would be like, you know, beat the Bobcats. And mine would be like, decapitate the Bobcats. And it would be like a guy like holding a head like above him.

[Henry Zabrowski]

See, nowadays you'd have to. You'd get pulled in with like, there'd be like a psychiatrist. Yeah, there. There would be like the local congressman.

[Marcus Parks]

But even then, like, like, I guess as everybody knew everybody so well, like, everyone's like, that's just Marcus.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Like, well, Marcus is creating.

[Marcus Parks]

He's creative. Like, you know, he likes his things. He likes his. You know, he likes his horror movies and you know, I. And I like a horror movie every once in a while. But you know, that's just Marcus. He's fine. He's all. He's all right. You don't got. You don't gotta worry about Marcus. He's just got his nose in the book all the time.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. And then you see the teacher, same piece of weed, just been like, these kids all get to go to school. 17. I'm sitting down to the swamps of Dunang.

[Marcus Parks]

Actually, I did have one teacher that was a Vietnam vet. That dude was fucked up.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, of course. Oh, we think homework's bad. Who've ever stepped in a hole and had a bamboo shoot shoot through your foot it while your buddy's getting his dick bit off by God damn river snake. While you're serving for your country, you come back and no one comes to the parade.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, he wasn't tough at all. He was shell shocked. Like he had like kind of a. He had kind of a stutter, like. Yeah, okay, everyone needs to just quiet. Everyone needs to quiet down now.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Get real quiet.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, you're just being a little bit too loud.

[Henry Zabrowski]

So much worse. That's so much worse than aggressive. Yeah, it was just.

[Marcus Parks]

It was so much worse. Cuz like I just sit there and watch him and just be like me like this guy. Like everyone does to him.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You just see like his eyes go blank and you hear like red, white and blue as he's like watching like jungles burn.

[Marcus Parks]

No, this guy is. This is the end.

[Henry Zabrowski]

My only friend, Saigon. Like, it's him doing the karate in front of the mirror at home.

[Marcus Parks]

No, he's that guy that was in the like the scene where they show up in the trench warfare and they're like, who's in charge here? And the guy goes, ain't you never.

[Ed Larson]

Get off the boat?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that's. That was that guy's Vietnam. He did not come back tough at all. Oh, no, no.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Believe me. And. And the culture wars we're in are going to be no different.

[Marcus Parks]

The culture wars what that we're in right now?

[Henry Zabrowski]

We're all just veterans of the culture warfriend. We are you and me, Eddie. This is just a. We're front lines Green berets. That's my Vietnam.

[Marcus Parks]

We're in it. So one of the things that has kind of I guess gotten bigger since we did our episode, as far as an update on like the cultural significance of Columbine, is that we saw a large increase in Columbine fandom. Oh yes, this was a big deal. I mean, I mean really it did. I would say it started around most. Around the time that most weird things started on the Internet. It's about 2012. That's God damn. That's just the year that everything changed.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Tumblr and all of that. The idea, that's when we went full like digital hive mind. That was like when it was really starting to happen. When we were really starting to see the secret thoughts that probably should have kept secret or kept niche, you know, I mean the idea of serial killer groupies is not. It's not a new phenomenon, but it is was. It got definitely super powered by the Internet.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it really did. And like you'd get see like all these. We used to at our old live shows when we just played exclusively videos. Like we'd find like three or four like Eric Harris tribute videos. Be like a girl. There would be like a girl talking about how cute she thought he was and how much she loved him and how. How she would worshiped him and all this like just really insane.

[Ed Larson]

Remember the homie. The girls that all started like dyeing their hair orange after James Holmes shot up the. Shot up the. The movie theater.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Heath Ledger's performance was so powerful in the Dark Knight. It launched a world of douchebags.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Wild to think just how good of an actor he. He probably would have to now like apologize for the Joker, which is really sad. He would probably have to go and Be like, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make everybody mad or crazy and talk about chaos and shit.

[Marcus Parks]

I think he'd have more gravitas than that. I think he'd have a little. I think he'd go out and talk about it openly.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I. He fucking worked at hard work and Joker and was the best. The best comic book movie ever. And I'm not updating that. I don't care what anybody says. People try to tell me that the Dark Knight's not the best comic book movie ever. You will not take that from me. I like dark superheroes.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, it's good. It's just. The only thing that keeps it from being the best comic book movie ever is Christian Bale's Batman voice in that movie, because it's fucking stupid.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I threw a bottle cap at him.

[Marcus Parks]

This man is known as a Joker. It is the Joker.

[Ed Larson]

He's just too bad.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I liked it. I'm still traumatized about this play that was canceled. I am still traumatized even thinking about the Authority.

[Ed Larson]

You should bring this Woody Allen play back.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I think that's the time. Now's the time. You know what really no one's talking about here is how does Woody Allen come back?

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

How does he come back? Because think about how he felt after Columbine. He loves kids.

[Ed Larson]

I'm so worried about him.

[Henry Zabrowski]

He loved him.

[Marcus Parks]

But, you know, it is crazy how they all ended up being right about Marilyn Manson.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. But he didn't. His music didn't drive violence. No, the man himself is a bad man.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. The man himself is a horrible human being.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Also Boo Raton.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. You know what it is, too, about Marilyn Manta? One of the.

[Marcus Parks]

He's from Boca.

[Ed Larson]

You know, he. He's. He would be there a lot. His. One of his family members and he would spend time with. Yeah, I used to see him at Borders all the time.

[Henry Zabrowski]

He used to be there all day.

[Ed Larson]

He would just sit there. And I remember my buddy went up to him, just been like. Like, hey, you, Marilyn Manson. And he's like, full Marilyn Manson.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No.

[Ed Larson]

He was just like, no. And then he's like.

[Henry Zabrowski]

He's like, you're Marilyn Manson.

[Ed Larson]

And he's just like, no, I'm not.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, yeah. Don't look at me.

[Ed Larson]

Giant platform shoe. Like.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. The white is Contact. The black Contact. He's the only guy be since Lewis Carroll to get fat on absinthe. He drinks so much absinthe.

[Marcus Parks]

This is an ad for Roundup for lawns. It kills weeds down to the root without harming your lawn. It works on crabgrass, dandelions, clover.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It works on weeds with names you can't even pronounce. It's Roundup for lawns. When used as directed, always read and.

[Marcus Parks]

Follow pesticide label directions.

[Henry Zabrowski]

This is an advertisement from BetterHelp. Maintaining my mental health is crucial. Navigating our podcast network through the choppy waters of the culture war. And I just want to say thank you betterhelp, for allowing me to see further, see more clearly, hear more dearly, and know the more dearly. Better Help I say Day by day, mental health awareness is growing, but there's still progress to be made. Many people avoid seeking mental health of support due to fear of judgment or stigma. Thankfully, I'm immune. When people hesitate to get help, it doesn't just affect them, it impacts families, workplaces and entire communities. Much like how my family and friends got together to beg me to talk to a therapist, let's encourage everyone to take care of their well being and break the stigma. The world is better when people are healthy and happy. BetterHelp has over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapists from their diverse network of credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties. If you've got that problem, they've got the person to talk to about the problem. Then you gotta do all the rest of it. And that's kind of the big hard thing about it. But they'll figure it out. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. We're all better with help our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com lastpod that's better. H-E-L-P.com last pod Summer's just around the.

[Ed Larson]

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[Marcus Parks]

No, of course. Yeah. I mean, that was the shitty thing about Columbine too. Is that before we get back to the group?

[Henry Zabrowski]

One of the only shitty things.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, well, it's just how much people blamed. Like video games, violent movies, you know, all the music, all that. Like, it was. It was stupid. Actually. Eric Harris's favorite band wasn't Marilyn manson. He loved KMFDM. Industrial KMFDM's sick.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You like KMFDM? Do you think I'd like that?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I like Nine Inch Nails.

[Marcus Parks]

You would love KMF DM. Do you like ministry?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. I'll give you some KMF dm.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Okay. Yeah. I want to get in my industrial phase.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, you'll love it. Hey.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Hey. Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I'm sold.

[Ed Larson]

That really. That is a good hick.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I'm sold.

[Marcus Parks]

You're sold. You'd love it. You would absolutely fucking love it. So let's get back to these groupies for just a second. I want to talk about one called Sol Pais. This is very recent. In mid April 2019, a woman named Sol Pas, who was infatuated with Columbine, traveled from Miami to Denver with a one way ticket and purchased a pump action shotgun and ammunition. She purchased the shotgun legally at the Colorado Gun Broker. According to a post on the company's Facebook page, the gun shop is less than two miles away from Columbine High School and she passed all background checks to legally purchase a firearm in Colorado.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, Colorado's had a lot of crazy shootings.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh yeah. But isn't that the Place where you just have to do the Alphabet backwards. Is it one of those, like, how do you get a gun there? By basically naming your favorite Sesame street character and if it's right, you get it right.

[Marcus Parks]

If it's anything but Snuffleupagus, then you get a gun.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, I mean, stuffalopagus. I still. We. We were talking about how if Big Bird died in the Challenger, Snuffleupus would probably have more of a place in.

[Marcus Parks]

Pop culture because he would be so sad. Because his sad. Oh, oh, I thought you meant that his sadness would catch on.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, it's because he's next in line.

[Marcus Parks]

He's.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, he's Fredo.

[Marcus Parks]

No, Oscar the Grouch is next in line.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Snuffle up against his Fredo.

[Ed Larson]

What are we doing? He's not real.

[Henry Zabrowski]

He's on the show.

[Marcus Parks]

No. If anything. No. Snuffle up because I don't even think is in the top five.

[Ed Larson]

You can't kill what doesn't exist.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I don't know.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't know.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Cancel Culture.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't know.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Ask John. Ask John Hinckley Jr. Do you see his dates getting killed everywhere? Cancel Culture. Doing it to him.

[Ed Larson]

Can you believe he's doing fine?

[Henry Zabrowski]

I actually don't think he is.

[Ed Larson]

He's out of prison. He shot a president. He's fine.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Cancel Culture claims another victim.

[Marcus Parks]

Pies had previously made comments about Columbine to friends and family members and had posted her thoughts about the massacre to online forums. According to officials, Pais had made credible but not specific threats before and after traveling from Miami to Denver. She also raised suspicions by purchasing a. A one way plane ticket for April 15th, 16th and 17th. Police in Florida contacted the Miami FBI office, which alerted the Denver office. Pace allegedly had a website in which she scanned handwritten journal entries talking about the massacre. The Columbine massacre. According to a CNN article.

[Henry Zabrowski]

She scanned her own handwritten journals.

[Marcus Parks]

She scanned her own handwritten journals and.

[Ed Larson]

Point of writing it by hand.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You know, I kind of like how fucked up this is because that's such a. That's a tell. That's a look into her mental space.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, well, it also. It's also a look into how lazy she is.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Very much so.

[Marcus Parks]

Because you should just tie you. That's what I do quite often with writing is that I hand write it first and then I type it out.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And that helped you edit. That's an edit round.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

She never learned home row.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, no.

[Marcus Parks]

What's home row?

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, the middle of the keyboard.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, tap, tap, tap. One finger at a time.

[Ed Larson]

That's how I tap.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I got fast one fingers.

[Marcus Parks]

You really tap Type. You type?

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, I go. But I don't do full, official good typing. But I mostly use these two fingers.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, no, I, I, I use my wife fingers.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Your wife fingers? I don't know.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's fingering fingers.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Thank God she doesn't have serious.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, she. If you do, download the Serious app and you're hearing this, my beautiful wife Natalie. I love you.

[Marcus Parks]

I had a dream last night that your wife left you.

[Ed Larson]

For who?

[Marcus Parks]

Just because you didn't want to be with him anymore. And you were living in this fucking horrible hotel. This really weird hotel. It was like on the beach.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Nothing's been the same since that play got canceled. Nothing's been the same.

[Ed Larson]

How is this episode so funny?

[Henry Zabrowski]

It shouldn't be.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And me and Carolina had to, like, like, you were so sad that me and Carolina were, like, bringing you groceries. And, you know, we were driving this weird Volkswagen Bug.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You better do this and understand that that's what you're going to be doing.

[Marcus Parks]

But it was also 1978. That was the fun thing about. Yeah. And yeah. You were living on the beach.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I say send it instacart.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. No, no, no. We had to come bring it to you in our Volkswagen Beetle.

[Henry Zabrowski]

That's incredible.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And which is Ted Bundy's car.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Same time period.

[Marcus Parks]

Interesting. How interesting.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You love him.

[Ed Larson]

You dream in the past?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, sometimes happens.

[Ed Larson]

That's great. That's never happened to me. I've never been like, oh, look, it's 1952. You know? That's crazy.

[Henry Zabrowski]

He's also been researching Cannes for six weeks.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And I feel like that also helps that he's been mentally in 1978. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

1968 to 1974.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I don't care. I do care. I care.

[Marcus Parks]

Not enough to be correct, but yeah. And then suddenly. Oh, man. Do you guys ever have that thing in your dream? Do you get, like, really, really, really loud knocks in the dream and it jolts you awake, the out of you?

[Ed Larson]

I'm just tripping and falling. And I wake up when I wasn't falling?

[Marcus Parks]

No, just the dream was going on, like, regularly. And then I just heard, like. And then I just got up out, and I thought that there was someone, like, outside my window, but there was nothing in there. That was just really loud knocks in my mind.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Maybe it was Bill Wilkins.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, fuck you.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Hey, fuck you. Hey, fuck you.

[Ed Larson]

Shit off.

[Marcus Parks]

Henry's. Henry's wife couldn't Leave him. You need to be mentally prepared for when she leaves.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You can. Why is it Bill telling me? Don't tell him. Tell me.

[Marcus Parks]

You have to take care of him for a while.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Talk with her.

[Marcus Parks]

Stated Bill.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You tell her.

[Marcus Parks]

So back to PAs. According to a CNN article, some of the journals are barely legible. Sometimes because of the handwriting, other times because of the scanning. There are a number of crude drawings of weapons, from long rifles to handguns and knives. One drawing has a trench coat figure holding an apparent weapon. That's why she scanned him. Because if you don't scan them, you don't get the illustration.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You don't get the illustration. So I understand. You don't get. I remember. I saw. I read the Kurt Cobain diary book. Yeah, that was horrible.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. No, I don't. Would never. I mean, we're gonna do a revisit on Kurt Cobain in the future, but I'm. I would never. I don't get why they publish like the personal journals. Oh, pure just feels so gross.

[Ed Larson]

Did you not, like montage of hell?

[Marcus Parks]

Heck, I didn't. I didn't want to watch it because it just felt too gross. Yes, you did.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. And I don't even care for Nirvana.

[Marcus Parks]

There was a better care for Nirvana.

[Ed Larson]

Too loud.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Let's not do this here, Marcus. Let's just not do this here. We can't. Hey, not right now. He's allowed in. Whatever he says.

[Ed Larson]

I like the Unplugged album.

[Marcus Parks]

It's the end today. Ed's a music buddy. I greatly respect Ed's taste. I respect, like, his opinions about music. I'm never going to argue with him and tell him he's wrong.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Wrong.

[Marcus Parks]

It's just a little surprising.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, no, I. I like them. I like to watch him live when he's in the dress.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Do you like Alison? Alice in Chains?

[Ed Larson]

They're much better. I like them a lot more than I like Nirvana.

[Henry Zabrowski]

That's an opinion that stakes true maturity.

[Ed Larson]

Well, I mean, the first three albums after that, it's not very good. They're Unplugged. I like more than Nirvana's Unplugged.

[Henry Zabrowski]

He's got a beautiful voice and even though he was barely functional during that.

[Marcus Parks]

Unplugged, you know, I would say, but what you probably like then is that you. You would say. I would say that Nirvana's too intense. Intense for you.

[Henry Zabrowski]

We've really finally hit 1999.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I think that it's important for you guys to know as listeners, we've just taken you back to what it was like to be there in 1999.

[Ed Larson]

Exactly. I'm more Sound Garden than Mud honey.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, okay. Well, I'm also more Soundgarden than Mud honey.

[Ed Larson]

Good for you.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you. Well, in most of the entries, the individual rambles about feeling like they did not belong in this world or lived in a different dimension.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah, yeah, sure.

[Marcus Parks]

Oftentimes they would quote song lyrics. One message. The website offered a dark insight into its potential purpose. The purpose of this site is for me to give insight into the thoughts I rarely, if ever, share with others while remaining somewhat anonymous. One of the messages on its homepage read everything from journal entries to my personal entries. I want to leave a record of myself before I. Well, dot, dot, dot.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I hate.

[Marcus Parks]

Before I.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, I hate that so much. I hate drama queens. It's a.

[Marcus Parks]

Just.

[Henry Zabrowski]

If you're going to kill me, do it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Don't make a Facebook post. Just shoot me in the head if you. If that's what we got to do. I don't need to hear all your. Your vamping. Come on, just get it over with.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Now I wonder what the song lyrics were. I got to look this up.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I am made in the box.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, my God. Cold Chamber. Oh, yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Me loco, dude.

[Ed Larson]

I fucking love Cold Chamber back in the day.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, Cold Chamber broke up in Lubbock.

[Ed Larson]

Really?

[Marcus Parks]

On stage.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You would have loved this lady.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I didn't. I fucking couldn't make the show. I was a big Cold Chamber fan back then. You know, I really love new metal. Yeah. And I couldn't make it to the show that night. And my buddy Nixon, like, fudgeing talked to me the next day. He's like, bro, you should have gone to the fucking show. They fucking broke up on stage.

[Ed Larson]

I remember the bass player is very attractive.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Very much just a elder millennial zone. I don't give a. About your zoomer ass. This is the real. Straight from the dome of a bunch of dudes that need blood thinners.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You don't know. That was like, dude, Big Truck.

[Marcus Parks]

Big Truck.

[Ed Larson]

Big Truck.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

It's like written by a four year old.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

This woman thought that it was. So this was her Catcher in the Ride.

[Marcus Parks]

Big Duck, Big Chuck.

[Ed Larson]

That's the whole song. It's great.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It is.

[Marcus Parks]

It's really fun. And that cover was really fun too. He's like the. The guy in the ice cream truck.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, I loved it.

[Marcus Parks]

Really fun. Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Know what really turned me on? I saw them on the second stage at Oz Fest.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

It was a Very dangerous mosh pit. Probably the most dangerous I ever saw. There was a skinhead with a knife between his fingers and he was slicing people up. And then some big ass dude just came by and clocked him and knocked him unconscious. It was w.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Jackie and I went to go see Billy Joel at msg. I also loved. You remember when we went to see Bob Seeger and we all sat. Oh my God, that was my favorite.

[Ed Larson]

That was amazing.

[Marcus Parks]

Nah, man, I got. There was some fucking great mosh pits. Like Slipknot was an incredible mosh pit.

[Henry Zabrowski]

We have lost the plot here.

[Ed Larson]

We gotta get back. These guys loved Cold Chambers.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, they're fucking dead now. They're all dead.

[Marcus Parks]

I would say they died right as Slipknot's first album was coming out.

[Henry Zabrowski]

They would have loved it.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't think it was 99 when slipknot. Maybe 2000. They would have loved Iowa.

[Henry Zabrowski]

They would have loved it.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, 19 school districts, including Jefferson county, where Columbine is located, closed while police searched for the woman. She was found dead near the base of Mount Evans on April 17, 2019. That was three days before the anniversary of Columbine of a self inflicted gunshot wound. Her body was found at the Rest house trail near the Echo Lake Lodge in Idaho Springs, Colorado, approximately an hour away from Littleton, where Columbine is located.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It's actually really sad in a way that she committed suicide, but also I'm glad she did that instead of killing other people.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

She killed herself with a shotgun.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Damn.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, dude. Same thing with. Did you research about how Cagney Lynn Carter, the. The porn actress also she did the same thing. Full on. Yeah. Shotgun in the mouth. Not good.

[Marcus Parks]

Jeez. Who?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Bummer.

[Marcus Parks]

Cagney Lynn Carter.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. I was a fan.

[Ed Larson]

Kurt Cobain, here we go. Full circle.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I'm.

[Ed Larson]

I was a fan.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I liked her work. She seemed like a nice lady.

[Marcus Parks]

See her?

[Ed Larson]

She.

[Henry Zabrowski]

She seems like. It was sad. It seems like porn is a horrible. It's been like porn and wrestling.

[Ed Larson]

That's a lot of business. Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It does bad things to people's brains.

[Marcus Parks]

She looks like Casey Anthony.

[Ed Larson]

That's why I liked her.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Not necessarily. Well, no. She's blonde.

[Marcus Parks]

She looks a lot like Casey Anthony.

[Ed Larson]

When I worked at the Village.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I don't think she looks like Casey Anthony.

[Marcus Parks]

Take another look.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I don't think she looks like Casey Anthony. Well, that's. With her with brown hair.

[Ed Larson]

I had a. When I worked at the Village. Poor house at a bartender that looked exactly like Casey Anthony when she was going out Drinking all the time. And the picture started showing up. And then I was like, oh, my God, Meredith, what are you doing in Boulder?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And then she was like, oh, me? Oh, my God. Poorhouse. One day, we're talking about 420, and I'm like, oh, you know, like, to think about 420 is. You know, in Columbine, all the kids who smoke weed, they all survive because they skipped school.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And then one of the bartenders ran to the bathroom crying. I was like, what happened? They were like, she was at Columbine.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Her friends died. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Cool.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Thank you. Good.

[Marcus Parks]

I was like, I'm sorry.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Sorry I'm like this. I don't know what else to do about it. I wish I was different. You know how many times I've said that exact yelling statement? I wish I wasn't this man sometimes, too.

[Marcus Parks]

Me, too. Actually, like, it was like, three days ago that I was like, God, I wish I wasn't like this. I'm, like, talking to my wife on the fucking. On the couch. I'm just like, I wish I wasn't like this.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

I wish this wasn't my brain. I wish I wasn't like this. I wish I was something else.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But you know what? That's what's putting food on the table, brother.

[Marcus Parks]

It is.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You're right. That fucking dark little beanie, yours. All the torment you put yourself through every single day, even in your dreams. You are a podcaster. And, yeah, that might not sound like much of a title to a lot of people.

[Marcus Parks]

It really doesn't. Especially the H Vac guy that asked me today what I did for a living, and I told him, and he didn't know what it was.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But you know what? For people that do know, they like that, I.

[Marcus Parks]

By the way, I got a good H Vac guy for you.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah? Good. Great.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, I need a guy who knows how to suck.

[Ed Larson]

You can't trust those guys.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, he's anti H Vac, but I abstract people, but I know they're very helpful.

[Ed Larson]

But, you know, I've caught him. I've caught them. Not bad.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Before they do whatever they want.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, the first one that I got. We'll talk about it after the show. Yeah, I'll tell you all my H Vac adventures and why I like this of this new guy.

[Henry Zabrowski]

This entire episode needs to be called, like, an Elder Millennials event. You know what I mean? Like, us just discussing things, time period.

[Ed Larson]

What is really the update to Columbine? I made a bad joke and made a Bartender upset.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

It's not like was a fan.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It's not like we looked back on Columbine and now we're like actually it's pretty funny. I mean like it was bad, but it was more so like understanding that Dave Collins book to wrap it all up. Dave Collins book was not the be all, end all source.

[Marcus Parks]

No.

[Henry Zabrowski]

We use it at the time because we didn't really understand. But more now that we have other views in. I still don't think it's that much different.

[Marcus Parks]

It's not.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But I do want to acknowledge that like yes. Like I. We understand that Dave Cullen's book had a firm perspective and we just kind of went with the perspective. We're like ob. Nothing is as simple as anything wants any but wants it to be. Everybody wants a simple explanation.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. But Dave Collins work on like the COVID up of the police, you know that them covering up.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

That was great. Like how all the myths of Columbine were created. All of that was like that's solid information. Like the girl who said yes. Like how that myth was created and how like the pieces of who perpetrated that myth, you know, like made the girl who actually said yes, made her feel like. And told her she was a liar.

[Henry Zabrowski]

All that.

[Marcus Parks]

Like Colin did a lot of really great work in that book.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

It's just that he had a story that he wanted to tell and he skewed the narrative of like Dylan Klebold, who he was as a person. He skewed it towards that narrative and that's his prerogative. You know, that's nonfiction writers do that all the time and you know, I guess decide for yourself whether that negates everything that he wrote. I don't believe it does. I believe that he made a bad narrative decision as a writer. But that's it.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I, you know, it's. It's important that I. When we do our research on last podcast and left like we really do consider many views on the subject. We are, we try to get like a stereo version as much as we can.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But it's also we are using sources and so every source, no matter what you do, you're not going to escape bias. It's not going to happen. But it knowing now as old older people who've been doing this longer, like the way to do it is to put three conflating and. And literal conflicting views together and see where they line up. And then also what do you know about humanity? Which is why it's important for me that's why? You know, when I get my diamonds delivered, I go out to the guide, to the car. I don't want him to have to walk all the way through the security gates and the moat when he gets to my house, I want all the dogs. Yeah. I go out to him because, like, I want him to see the guy who's getting the Rolex jock strap. I want him to see that guy.

[Ed Larson]

Can I ask a hypothetical before we go?

[Marcus Parks]

Sure.

[Ed Larson]

Columbine doesn't happen. Do all these other spree shootings happen still?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yes.

[Ed Larson]

You think so?

[Marcus Parks]

Absolutely.

[Ed Larson]

Why. Why is America headed that way?

[Henry Zabrowski]

The Internet.

[Ed Larson]

The Internet.

[Marcus Parks]

The Internet, it's. The Internet is with us in ways that we will not understand for another 50 years.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And no proper mental health infrastructure. There's nowhere for. There's no. Like, America is just gotten a little crazy and we got no place to go. If you are a dangerous person, but you have yet to commit a crime, but you know, you're kind of on a way to do it. Like, you know, like, there's no way to sort of like track and flag when someone's been talking about this behavior. Even though there's probably many ways we could do it. They, you know, like, we just saw it happen with that Ethan Crumbley, with the two parents that essentially they both were. The first time ever you had a mom that got convicted of manslaughter for, like, helping the kid, basically by buying the gun for the kid that went and shot up a bunch of people.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Like, I. It's. We're just in a weird place. The reason why we blame the Internet is just because the human brain just seems like it's not supposed to handle this many points of view at once. And it drives people crazy. There's also no media literacy. Nobody knows how to fucking read a newspaper or understand that the Internet, your algorithm, is only built to your specifications, so they think that the computer's talking directly to them and it's saying that you. Truth.

[Marcus Parks]

But I. You know, Adam Lanza, he wasn't on the fucking Internet. A whole bunch. Like, there's not. Some of these guys are definitely outliers, of course. But I think it's. It's. I don't know if we're going to understand the mass shooter phenomenon for a long time.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It has to kind of stop for a while. You know what I mean? Like, in order for us to look back on it, it has to kind of. We need a break.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And then we can look back on all the data.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, it's. The. It's the guy been reading this incredible book by David Mitchell. He was the dude. He was Mark Corgan and Peepsh Show.

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

He recently wrote a history book about, like, the history of British rulers. That's incredible. It's so good. But he talked about, like, the, you know, Dan Carlin talks about the great men theory of history. The other side of that, that kind of refutes the great men theory of history is the trend theory of history is that these things happen no matter what. That's just, you know, if it wasn't William the Conqueror in 1066, it would have been somebody else.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, Randy.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Who united England. It might have happened a couple years before or a couple years after, but eventually, like, just the trends come. And that's a view. That's just how history works. Like, it's just waves that we can. We can't. Things just fucking happen. Yeah, like, things just happen and we can't do anything about it. And that's just the way history is. And we just. It's like more of a chaos theory type of way of looking at it than it is like a prime mover way of looking at it.

[Henry Zabrowski]

So who knows? It's probably a mixture of the.

[Marcus Parks]

It's probably a mixture of both.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. And like, going back to what you're saying about the Internet and social media having such a big influence on it. One of my best friends in the world, he's a teacher down in a school very close to Parkland, next town over. And when all that shit went down, it's the next day he's talking to his students, and they're just, you know. You know, the curriculum goes out the window. And he's just like, you know, what do you think? You know, as students, as peers, like, why do you think stuff like this keeps happening in every kid in the class? Class said, it's because of social media, it's because of the Internet. And then he's like, do you think we should get rid of it? And every kid said, no.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, because they don't know how to get out of it. They're addicted to it because they're literally addicted to it. But hopefully we're getting there. And then, you know, even though the, you know, the sun is conscious, we know for a fact that the sun can think. Right.

[Marcus Parks]

I've been seeing this around so many places.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Just send the sun flare. Let's just do it. It might hurt the podcast for a while, but guess what? We're going to take the podcast on the road and do it with megaphones live everywhere across this country. So guess what? It might help. Might be fun.

[Marcus Parks]

All right. Goodbye, everybody. Thank you for listening to the Last Update on the Left. We'll see y' all next week.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Hell, Satan, see you on all of the things TikTok LP on the left after we've just talked about that. Yeah, sure. Go on social media, go patreon.com podcast to the left to see the main hub show on in video version. You can see your bodies flapping around. And we are also doing a live show that is not just the podcast. Go to lastpodcast on the left dot com. We're going to various North American cities, including Denver and various Australian cities. Go check out the JK Ultra tour. It's going to be good.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Or better be, at least.

[Marcus Parks]

Bye, y' all. Bye. Okay, bye.

[Ed Larson]

Hail Allison Chains.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, sure.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't care for them.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Thank you for enjoying the Last Update on the Left. You can find other shows that you'll enjoy from the Last Podcast Network on lastpodcast on the left dot com. See you there.

[Marcus Parks]

When life brings the blah, add more Yabba dabba doo with some tasty fruity pepper Pebbles. Early morning meeting blah. Someone brought the Pebbles. Yabba dabba doo. Run errands blah. Head to the store for Pebbles. Yabba dabba doo. Fruity Pebbles. Less blah. More yabba dabba doo. Pick up pebble cereal today. Yabba dabba Doo and the Flintstones and all related characters and elements copyright and trademark Hanna Barbera. Summer is coming right to your door.

[Henry Zabrowski]

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[Ed Larson]

Season going go to's delivered just when.

[Marcus Parks]

You want them Snacks, towels and even.

[Ed Larson]

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[Marcus Parks]

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