Side Stories: Investigation Alien w/ George Knapp

Summary

Last Podcast on the Left: Side Stories – Investigation Alien with George Knapp

Podcast Information:

• Title: Last Podcast On The Left
• Host/Author: The Last Podcast Network
• Description: The podcast delves into real and imagined horrors, including demons, cults, and serial killers, satisfying listeners' fascination with the macabre.
• Episode: Side Stories: Investigation Alien with George Knapp
• Release Date: January 1, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

Hosts: Marcus Parks, Henry Zebrowski, and Ben Kissel kick off the episode with their characteristic banter, briefly mentioning upcoming live shows and teasing the main content involving George Knapp. They humorously discuss roller coaster safety related to body size, setting a lighthearted tone before transitioning to the main topic.

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Meeting George Knapp

At [06:30], the hosts introduce their special guest, George Knapp, an esteemed investigative reporter known for his work in ufology and his new Netflix show, Investigation Alien. The conversation quickly transitions to George's experiences and contributions to the field.

Notable Quote:

• George Knapp (06:56): "I really do want him to be my friend. I wish he was my father."

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Origins of Investigation Alien

George delves into the genesis of Investigation Alien, explaining how the project evolved from initial discussions with Netflix executives who were eager to fund their own UFO series after rejecting numerous proposals.

Key Points:

• Netflix sought a unique UFO project and selected George based on his extensive experience and prior interviews at events like Alien Con ([12:05]).
• The series expanded from an anticipated 30-day shoot to a comprehensive 14-month global investigation ([12:26]).

Notable Quote:

• George Knapp (12:15): "I have to... but I would be his son. I would look after him. I'd cook and clean for him."

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Exploring the Calaras Incident

One of the episode's focal points is the Calaras incident in Brazil, a pivotal event in ufology characterized by mass injuries from unidentified phenomena.

Detailed Breakdown:

• Origin of the Incident: In Calaras, Brazil, hundreds were injured by beams of light containing filaments and hooks, leading to significant blood loss and anemia ([16:24]).
• Government Response: The Brazilian Air Force conducted a prolonged investigation, which became a closely guarded secret, delaying public disclosure by decades ([16:33]).
• Connection to U.S. Programs: Documents from this incident were later incorporated into the U.S. Department of Defense's OSAP program, revealing extensive government involvement and concealed information ([18:48]).

Notable Quote:

• George Knapp (18:48): "It is a Department of Defense program initiative that is hidden inside sort of the structure under the White House."

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UFO Phenomena and Drone Surges

The discussion transitions to recent unexplained drone sightings across the Eastern Seaboard and Europe, raising questions about their origin and purpose.

Key Points:

• Unidentified Drones: Massive waves of unidentified drones have been reported, leading to speculation about their origins—ranging from extraterrestrial, interdimensional, future humans, to advanced private corporations ([05:41]).
• Challenges in Identification: Authorities struggle to track or neutralize these drones due to their advanced technology and elusive nature ([40:52]).
• Biomimicry Theory: George proposes that these drones might be mimicking human technology, suggesting an attempt to blend in or observe without detection ([43:37]).

Notable Quote:

• George Knapp (43:37): "They have tried to shoot them down and they can't. And they don't know where they come from."

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Impact of Investigation Alien on Public Perception

George discusses the positive reception of his Netflix series, noting a significant increase in global interest and credible reports from various countries.

Key Points:

• Global Reach: The series has attracted attention from viewers worldwide, leading to an influx of UFO sightings and reports, as seen in countries like South Africa, Brazil, and Australia ([63:22]).
• Encouraging Dialogue: Increased public interest has paved the way for more serious discussions and investigations into UFO phenomena, bridging gaps between enthusiasts and mainstream media ([60:59]).

Notable Quote:

• George Knapp (63:22): "It really is kind of an encouraging reaction because the response has been overwhelmingly positive."

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** congressional Hearings and Government Transparency**

The episode delves into recent congressional hearings on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP), highlighting the tension between government secrecy and the push for transparency.

Key Points:

• Immaculate Constellation Program: A covert DoD initiative aimed at compiling and analyzing UFO data, utilizing advanced AI to sift through classified information ([32:05]).
• Challenges in Disclosure: Efforts to introduce credible evidence and testimonies are often thwarted by bureaucratic obstacles and disinformation campaigns ([32:48]).
• Potential Shifts in Policy: George expresses cautious optimism about potential breakthroughs in governmental acknowledgment and disclosure of UFO-related information ([37:09]).

Notable Quote:

• George Knapp (37:09): "I have at least a little bit of hope that maybe we're on the cusp of something here."

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Personal Insights and Future Aspirations

George shares personal anecdotes and aspirations, emphasizing his dedication to uncovering the truth despite facing skepticism and personal challenges.

Key Points:

• Dedication to Truth: Despite facing ridicule and being labeled "crazy," George remains steadfast in his mission to bring UFO phenomena into the mainstream conversation ([60:59]).
• Future Goals: His ultimate aim is to achieve undeniable proof of extraterrestrial or advanced non-human intelligence, potentially transforming human understanding of our place in the universe ([58:47]).

Notable Quote:

• George Knapp (58:32): "If they take the shields down at that moment and allow us to see it because they want us to know they're there."

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with the hosts expressing gratitude towards George for his invaluable insights and contributions to the field of ufology. They underscore the importance of his work in shifting public perception and encouraging open dialogue about unexplained phenomena.

Notable Quote:

• Marcus Parks (63:28): "You are part of the reason why we're here because of the work that you've done."

Final Remarks:

• Promotion of George's Work: The hosts encourage listeners to check out Investigation Alien and George's other projects, highlighting the significance of his investigative efforts in uncovering hidden truths.

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Key Takeaways

1. George Knapp's Pioneering Role: As a respected investigative reporter, George has significantly influenced the discourse around UFOs and UAPs through his dedicated research and media projects.
2. Government Secrecy vs. Transparency: The tension between classified government programs and the public's right to know is a central theme, with ongoing efforts to bridge this gap.
3. Global UFO Phenomena: Recent unexplained drone sightings and other UFO-related incidents worldwide suggest a complex, multifaceted phenomenon that transcends national boundaries.
4. Cultural Shift in Perception: Media projects like Investigation Alien are instrumental in shifting societal attitudes towards accepting and seriously investigating UFO phenomena.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Marcus Parks]

Do you want to listen to last podcast on the Left without ads. Do you want extra content? Do you want to see what it's like behind the scenes? Patreon.com lastpodcast on the left.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's no place to escape to. This is the last podcast on the left.

[Ben Kissel]

Side Stories.

[Marcus Parks]

That's when the cannibalism started. Side Stories. Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey there, side stories listeners.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, you thick bottom heavy sons of.

[Marcus Parks]

I think some of you are getting thinner.

[Ben Kissel]

But I want you bottom heavy.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, that's how I like you. But you depends on what you know. A lot of people get upset because they can't fit in their bucket seats anymore. Yeah, he can go on the Green Lantern ride.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh my God.

[Marcus Parks]

You gotta be careful with that. But if you have it a big swing and tuck us.

[Ben Kissel]

You gotta have. You know, you gotta be careful with Six Flags.

[Marcus Parks]

You really do. Because they won't tell you that you're too big for the ride. You got to tell yourself that's right.

[Ben Kissel]

Cuz they'll just let you die.

[Marcus Parks]

They don't care. They're teenagers.

[Ben Kissel]

They're not a sponsor.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Right? They.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't know. No, no, they're not a sponsor. No, I. Six Flags, honestly, I like that about them.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes. That they don't want nothing to do with us.

[Marcus Parks]

No, of course not. No. Don't tell me what to do.

[Ben Kissel]

Don't.

[Marcus Parks]

Don't body police me. Don't tell me. But sometimes you might slide out of a roller coaster. Welcome to side Stories.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes. And just before we get started, January 11th, last podcast on the left is going to be at the Coca Cola Roxy Theater in Atlanta. Speaking of Six Flags.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Come enjoy us. We have been doing this show hard, man. And we are ready to you up. We're doing side stories the next night. Already sold out.

[Marcus Parks]

Done.

[Ben Kissel]

So that. Sorry, got to come to last podcast on the left.

[Marcus Parks]

They can hang out outside of dad's garage and listen to the door.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, do that. Go hang out outside.

[Marcus Parks]

That would be cool. Honestly, that'd be kind of. That would make me feel good.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But speaking of big swinging tucuses. The Claremont. Yep, the Claremont. If you've never been. It's weird. We'll talk about it.

[Ben Kissel]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

We have a very special guest today. It's the first day of 2025. Wow. Catch that flying car. Oh. Oh no. It crashed into that orphanage of abandoned Roombas.

[Ben Kissel]

Yep, that's what happens.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, that's not good.

[Ben Kissel]

So we want to talk about are Roombas land drones?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, carpet drones.

[Ben Kissel]

Carpet drones.

[Marcus Parks]

And we just wanted to preempt this reason why we did an intro to this is that this piece was originally going to be even of a larger piece for a ufo. Big old UFO episode. But instead the entire UFO world flipped on its ass during this new gigantic drone wave that happened literally started approximately three days after we talked to this extremely important man within ufology.

[Ben Kissel]

It is the side stories curse.

[Marcus Parks]

And. And it. It holds. So we are releasing this for today. We are gone.

[Ben Kissel]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

You got an episode last week because we wanted to do that Christmas present. Yes. But this is. We're gone now. I'm not here right now. I'm.

[Ben Kissel]

I'm in Disneyland.

[Marcus Parks]

He is fucking. And he's not. Doesn't even have a ticket.

[Ben Kissel]

No, I don't.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I don't. And just going.

[Ben Kissel]

And speaking of being too fat for the rides. That's me.

[Marcus Parks]

He's starting to get there. But hey, they again, it's. They got to figure it out.

[Ben Kissel]

That's why I don't go to Universal no more. They kicked me off the Harry Potter.

[Marcus Parks]

Ride and go fuck yeah, man. And it's all because full of hate.

[Ben Kissel]

Also fuck Harry Potter.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, man. It's full of hate.

[Ben Kissel]

We got into that last week.

[Marcus Parks]

But George Knapp is one of the most extremely competent people.

[Ben Kissel]

I just want to hold him.

[Marcus Parks]

I really do. I want him to be my friend. I wish he was my father.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But also, I don't know what I'd be like if he was my father.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Worse maybe.

[Ben Kissel]

I mean, you'd be more into the. That's.

[Marcus Parks]

I'd be with him. I'd be next to it. Be nap. A nap investigates. I'd be right next to him. I'd be the son he always wanted.

[Ben Kissel]

You take his name?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Of course.

[Ben Kissel]

I mean, he's your father. I guess you'll have a chance.

[Marcus Parks]

I have to.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

But I would be his son. I would look after him. I'd cook and clean for him. I'd wash his clothes. I'd mend his clothes. And then we'd go on UFO hunts together, smoke cigars and drink scotch.

[Ben Kissel]

I'd like to be a guy who brings you pizza.

[Marcus Parks]

Love that. Yeah, I would love that for us. You'd be our butler. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh my God.

[Marcus Parks]

If you were our butler.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, it's just like me, like dressed up like a gray, walking around. But. Here you go, Mr. Dab. You found me.

[Marcus Parks]

You asked for your super that. But he does that for fun.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. And then.

[Marcus Parks]

But then you have to go back to your butler. Uniform and get him his meals.

[Ben Kissel]

Regardless, this is a great interview.

[Marcus Parks]

And yes. So if you notice that we're not talking about the number one UFO story.

[Ben Kissel]

In the world in the history of our lives.

[Marcus Parks]

If you're wondering why they're not talking about that, it's because we recorded this directly before it happened.

[Ben Kissel]

I think three days is generous. It might have been one.

[Marcus Parks]

It might have been it. It literally might have been. Because I remember seeing phot footage about the drones and I oh my God, we just talked to George Knapp. I mean, we're like, we're trying to get him, but we are, we are working on a project now to try to get him back in. We're going to talk about this with him as just kind of let you know. With the entire Eastern seaboard, United States of America, other states and countries within Europe have been experiencing this buzzing of unidentified drones. They're calling them drones because they don't want to call them UFOs. And they are out there and we have no idea what's going on. We didn't know if it's man made. We don't know if it's from a foreign adversary. We don't know if it's from the ocean. We don't know if it's extraterrestrials. We don't know if it's us. We don't know private, if it's private corporations. And what does that leave us?

[Ben Kissel]

We're talking about the congressional hearings on this documentary.

[Marcus Parks]

We're not talking about any of that. So remember that. We're not talking about any of that. We're talking about the big alien news that happened two days before this.

[Ben Kissel]

That no one even cares about it.

[Marcus Parks]

No one cared about that. The, the revelation about Immaculate constellation. George Knapp also is the host of the brand new show Investigation Alien, which is on Netflix. Go check it out. He's the. He' the most reputable man in the biz.

[Ben Kissel]

Absolutely. And the phoenix lights are a very big part of that. And it seems like they're oddly similar.

[Marcus Parks]

They're extremely similar to what we're experiencing right now. So check out this interview with the man himself. George Knapp.

[Ben Kissel]

Flies from your grave.

[Marcus Parks]

And now, ladies and gentlemen, we have one of the more, let's say one of, if not one of the most important voices right now in ufology. George Knapp, investigative reporter, model. I can't believe that they let you out of your contract with V with Vincent Secret, the new male lingerie series that you're about to unveil, which I'm really, really excited for sir.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, my. My manhood is on full display in that, so I'm not sure the audience is ready for it. You know, I also have a career as a interior decorator. Oh, wow.

[Marcus Parks]

I was about to say this, George.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's just blown up.

[Marcus Parks]

Mr. Knapp, you got creator of the new show for Netflix investigation Alien, which is great new. I'd say it's an awesome primer, too, to get people caught up with what's going on right now at the forefront of ufology. George Dap, thank you so much for being here.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Always glad to talk to you guys. And I appreciate talking about this show. It was one heck of a project. We can get into it, but, man, it was. It wore my. You can see it from some of those shots in there that my saggy old carcass was dragging there by.

[Ben Kissel]

By the end of it, you were going all world. It was crazy. I was like, what are they doing? Why leave them alone?

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, there are other interviews and other trips we made that didn't make the cut. We got so many great interviews, so many great location shots. It was too much to fit even in six episodes. So there's a lot of things that didn't make it that would be a great series by itself.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, you're down in Brazil, you're in Mexico. You're all over the place. And as someone who is still, like, dipping their toe into ufology, I don't really know much. I'm very new to it. Henry has been my guide. The show was perfect for me. It really gave me an overview of everything that's going on right now. I'm hooked. I can't wait to learn about more. I'm so happy that you're at your house right now, because I felt like your house was like a character in the documentary.

[Marcus Parks]

Really was.

[Ben Kissel]

It looks great in the boxes in your house. Like, it is. Like, it is wild. I have is beautiful, beautiful thing. Thank you, George, for sitting down with us.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I just want to party at your house.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, well, you know, that wasn't the plan from the beginning. They built an alternative office for me in la. They took a bunch of my stuff, put it in the basement of this old building so you see an office there. And then we switch back to the real thing that goes back and forth, but they wanted to shoot it there. They ended up coming here maybe 10 times and. And look, my. My place is a mess. The bunker down here is filled with boxes and files. They made it even messier just to convince people that I'm a total slob and, and basically on the, you know, on the edge of being a hoarder.

[Marcus Parks]

But that's. I wouldn't trust it either way.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

I would not. I would not trust you. If it was different. If you, if I went in there and it was all neat, I'd be like, what's going on here? He's got this time.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

To organize.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I remember at the, at the startups of the, the pandemic, you know, when Zoom suddenly happened.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And I start seeing people on social media rating rate your room kind of stuff, I thought, oh, shit, please don't do that. Finally got around to it and somebody, I think they were very kind. This poor old daughtering old fart is obviously a hoarder. We're not going to be too mean to him. They give me like a 3 out of 10 and that was generous.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, the secrets, that's what they get.

[Ben Kissel]

The 3, 4 in all that information, it's way safer in those boxes than it is on a hard drive or on your computer. So it's a, It's a smart move.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It is. And I, I'm a. I'm a little bit of a technophobe anyway. I mean, I have so many stories that I have written and then lost into the ether that I, I save files, I save physical files and, and I can fight it, you know, I don't have to worry about it disappearing from my computer or the Internet. A lot of stuff does disappear online and a lot of it is mistakes that I would make myself. But funny stuff happens there, so I want to be able to physically grab stuff.

[Marcus Parks]

When you started the process of investigation aliens, how did you decide what were the stories you wanted to tell for the episodes? Because it really, I mean, it's a great. That's what I was saying before. It was like a great catch up. But, like, was that the goal or was it just because I have these stories? I want to get them on camera.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There are some, you know, some great cases, some historic cases that I've always been interested in, coloras being one, you know, and some of that material has made its way into my hands. And I'll tell you about that. Here's how the, the project sort of unfolded. 2022, a producer who had been working with Netflix and knew all their executives introduced himself and said, hey, these guys are thinking about funding their own UFO project. At that point, they had probably had a hundred proposed series from all kinds of filmmakers and production companies, and they turned them down and they wanted their own. So they sent this guy, his name is Angus James. He had his own production company. They sent him to meet with me and first thing he did is he went to Alien Con, that big event in LA where I was like, I was on stage five or six times for really big events. So if they're going to come to check me out, that was a good time to do it. I. I interviewed Jay Stratton and Travis Taylor about the UAP task force. They had never spoken about it in public. I was on with Giorgio Talk about Ancient Aliens. I was on with Skinwalker Folks. The reaction from the audience was pretty positive about me, so they felt pretty good and pitched me on the series and I didn't need much more on my plate. It was already pretty full. You know, we had already. I just launched this podcast with Jeremy.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah, Weaponize is a full time job and you guys are really like. And you are. You're still putting out episodes with brand new material that you are breaking every week.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. And at that time, we just started. I was flying to LA twice a month. I don't travel all that well. The idea that the Netflix would be added to that. I'm still doing the Coast to coast am.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah, that's right. You're still. Yeah, and I'm.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I am still the chief investigative reporter for KLS tv and they will. They want stories from me as often as I can provide them.

[Marcus Parks]

So you're still doing. That's right. You're still doing legit, quote unquote. I'm not going to say that to us. I'm not going to do that to us and say not legit news. But you're still like, you have to go talk about the election and stuff. Like you still have to go talk about other stuff.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I, I did three stories last week for November sweeps about mob related topics. That's awesome. Mob stuff, historical things, but new angles, new information about mob figures. And so yeah, I'm still the chief investigator reporter there. Got the coast to coast do the Weaponized. We put a book out with column kelleher and Jim McCaskey and you know, I was pretty busy. And now. Oh, by the way, this Netflix thing, they thought it might take 30 days to shoot it. I thought, well, I can handle that. Ended up being 14 months. We travel all over the place. 14 months.

[Marcus Parks]

And how did that work when you first went out? It was just because, like, oh, this is so successful. We're going to do this. Or they're like, oh, no, no, we need to actually go to Brazil.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I mean, you know, when they pitched that idea, I thought, oh, yeah, for sure. I'd been to Brazil before, but I'd never been to Colaris. And the Colaris is such a. A cool case. It's mythical in the UFO world. It's, you know, it's an outlier because people were attacked. And the, the story that's gone out through Western media to the world, largely forgotten, except for. For UFO folks who are into the topic. But the story that went out is alien ships came out of the river and out of the sky and attacked these poor villagers and panicked them and hundreds of people were injured. Partially true, but, you know, we were able to track down some of those original victims. Witnesses. There was a lady named Aurora. She was just a teenager at the time. Her photo was sort of the face of Calaras. It went out all over the world. Her in a hospital showing this injury on. On her shoulder. And most of the witnesses who were interviewed said it was a. A burn like a laser beam. Well, we found out by talking to them directly, they had not done interviews before in all these years. And by finding them and getting them to go on camera, they told us what had happened is there were beams of light that were shot at them. But inside the beam of light were these filaments and these hooks. Now, some of them got burned when the, when the lights hit. Some of them had these filaments that stuck in their chest and it took blood and tissue samples out. Most of the people who were hit that way suffered from anemia. It was a loss of blood. They got dizzy. They were hundreds of them, scattered out of Calaras. And then the event spread to at least 20 other cities, little tiny towns in there. There were probably 2,000 people altogether that were injured as a result of this episode. The Brazilian Air Force came in, launched an investigation, went to Calaras. Officially, they said they were there for four months and then it all went away. They were there for 15 or 16 months, produced more than a thousand pages of documents and reports. And as we found out on this trip, there's a boat owner who ferried them out every day during these months, out to this spot in the Amazon delta there where these Air Force guys were trying to communicate with whatever it was. This spot is where these things kept coming in and out of the water and they were trying to communicate. And as we learned in that series, if you guys saw it, there were a couple of Americans, plain suit suit guys, who didn't say much, but they brought along some kind of a screen that when you tilted it up to the sky, if you use your eyeballs, you don't see anything, but you tilt this up and they can see these spaceships. And then, as this captain told us, he'd never been interviewed by anyone. He told us that there was communication, there was some kind of language that recordings were made of, this strange language that he could not. Could not identify. He said these Brazilian Air Force guys were scared. After days of this, they gave him a piece, a firearm, and said, we don't know how this is going to go, but if. If shit hits the fan, you got to be ready to jump in and help defend yourself. And so you know that.

[Marcus Parks]

That's all I've been waiting for. All I've been waiting for is a police officer to hand me a gun and say, if the aliens come, shoot him in the head. That is all I've wanted.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That sounds like something about a John Wick movie or something.

[Ben Kissel]

So was this an attack or like a science experiment on.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, it's always been characterized as an attack with no motive. But this was a sampling operation. This was a. An investigation where they were collecting samples of blood and tissue from all these people. And, you know, so many of them ended up in hospitals. Hundreds of them, most of the in the same hospital. All those records vanished. The Brazilian Air Force files. At the time, the Brazilian government was a military junta. They had taken over. And there were reporters that we tracked down, this one really great guy named Carlos, who was on the scene while the investigation was underway. The military reached out to his publication, the biggest newspaper in Brazil, and told him, knock it off. He kept digging anyway, but they wouldn't publish this stuff anymore. All those files went into a vault somewhere and were put away. And the Brazilian people and the rest of the world didn't get to see it for 20, 25 years. And then they started releasing it. They had. There were a couple of ufologists in there who petitioned the government. They had a. After the military government was gone and a civilian government was in there, they had their own version of a foia. And they released some of this stuff but didn't release all of it. Those files. Here's where it leads to Las Vegas. Those files. When the DIA's secret program OSAP, which was based here in Las Vegas, the largest acknowledged UFO investigation ever funded by the US Government right here in my backyard. Bigelow and his team, who had the contract for the dia, sent teams to Brazil multiple times. They got the files, they brought back everything. And it went into this DIA vault from the Brazilian vault. And I got to see it. Now I'm not, I didn't have a clearance, I wasn't supposed to see it. But I was friends with these guys and I co wrote two books with the two guys who managed the program. And the Calaris files were essentially a big part of it. They, they did studies, they dug into it. Jacques Valet, the great Jacques Valet was the only western investigator I know that had gone to Colaris on his own back closer to when these events had occurred. And he actually dug up that same information that largely got ignored, that this was a sampling operation, not an attack.

[Marcus Parks]

It's very fascinating. Then you also look at like a direct comparison is the episode of you talking about Usos, the unidentified submerged Object coming out of the Gulf of Mexico. Maybe to even protect a community.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I'd never heard that before, but we went to Tampico and met with these, the locals. They have aliens everywhere. It's in much the same way happened, same thing happened in Calaris. They were scared to death. Hundreds of people left their homes, just split, and then eventually came back. And now they've sort of embraced the whole UFO idea. They've got little landmarks and gift shops and alien images all over the place in that town. And I think they're still nervous about the idea that it might happen again. And there have been different outbreaks of similar activity there. And the same thing was in Tampico. They believe that there's some kind of base under the water. They, we helped look for, did some sampling of water to see if there's something in it, talked to the local meteorologist who said, yeah, it's kind of a coincidence. The folklore is that there's an alien base that protects us from hurricanes. And we looked at the records, there have been hurricanes that sort of got close, but all the big ones skipped right past it. And it's just a very odd coincidence. Over a long period of time, you.

[Marcus Parks]

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[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, I'll just give you my opinion. I've been pretty far up the food chain and you guys and I have talked about this before and trying to figure out is there anybody that really knows for sure. And the answer is no. Yeah, you know, gone pretty far up there. There are different ideas. The smartest people in the world who had access to the best information and evidence believe that the most likely answer is there are multiple different forms of non human intelligence that have visited us. Some of them could even be from the future. Us from the future coming back to see where things went wrong. Extraterrestrials is still into the mix. That was the dominant paradigm when I started long time ago.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, physical, actual creatures from another planet here. Right. That, that is, that to me, almost this point is almost the smallest percentage point now.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, you know, there's these things called von Neumann probes. We, we've talked about doing it, send these probes out and, and the, eventually we'd like them to be self reproducing so that they can take different forms and stay out over long periods of time and, and look for people like us. So extraterrestrial is still in the mix, interdimensional is in the mix. And then there are some people that talk about pretty exotic ideas that kind of go over my head. Ultra terrestrials, something like essentially gods that have always been here, that are not even physical anymore that could intervene in, in our world, in our reality, in a physical way when they want to and play games with us. But in large part I would have to say that the overall effect is, is kind of positive. I mean, most of the people I talk to now we went to Phoenix and we'll get into that if you want, but the Phoenix Lights folks didn't cut. There's a lot of stuff we shot that didn't make the cut.

[Marcus Parks]

You have the best episode on the Phoenix Lights I have seen of a television documentary series about the incident because it is one of those incidents that seems kind of like a nothing burger in one way where it's like, oh, some lights. But then you realize like, oh, they have been. They questioned it all the way up to the very top.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah, and not just that, the fact that you said that they saw lights in Texas and in New Mexico on the same night.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It started here in Nevada. That didn't make this show, that the episode either. But the first sightings was here over at Henderson, Nevada and Lake Mead. And then a couple hours later it was over Phoenix and then New Mexico and then Texas. That was not flares. No. They tried to deny it. Then they tried to cover it up and muddy the waters. I've even heard a story that it was some kind of a large dirigible, privately owned. Well, if some guy flies that dirigible over an international airport right next to a US Air Force base, there's going to be hell to pay. Yeah, trouble. It was something else. And the interviews we did with the people who were closest to that Phoenix Lights, who, whose lives were transformed didn't make the series. Maybe next year if there's another part two. But their lives changed dramatically. Their stories were really moving to me and I had never heard them before. You know, I knew about the attempted cover up and muddy the water stuff and we got to, I think got pretty close to the truth on that. But how it transformed people's lives in a positive way. We heard the same thing from folks in Tampico. You know, the, the people in Oregon that have the cattle mutilations. The latest outbreak. It is ongoing, by the way. Yeah, they don't see it in a very positive way. It's been nothing but, but scary and bad and financially disastrous for them. But in general we know that these beings, wherever they're from, maybe from multiple places, have incredible technological capabilities. They could cause serious harm if they wanted to. They shut down nuclear weapons, they've enabled nuclear weapons. They've tried to get us to pay attention and Take care of our planet. They could obviously do bad things that they wanted to. They haven't done it yet. And for a lot of people that we encountered in all these travels, it is overall a very positive experience.

[Marcus Parks]

These encounters, it does seem to expand minds and consciousness very often. It seems to be almost, it's almost like the purpose of their interaction with us. If that is indeed you hear people.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Say who've tried DMT or who've encountered aliens or people who do psilocybin, how it changes their outlook, like basically forever. Yeah, I think that that's comparable to what these UFO encounters, the effects it's had on a lot of people.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah. It makes people wear patchouli for the rest of their lives. And it is, it's gotta stop. I, I do wanted to. When this series came out, like, so it comes out right before this new UAP congressional hearing. Are you at all like, fuck, like when it came, when you're happy that it all led together?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. There's a lot of speculation on whether that was timed, whether we had something to do with it. They originally the date was going to be the day of the hearing. They didn't know there was going to be a hearing on that date when they're done to release it. And I told them they changed it. I don't know, they moved it up. But it was not done on purpose that way. It's just when they got it done, it was ready to go. I did not see the finished episodes until they were done. Oh sure. I didn't get to see, you know, what had been left in and what had been left out. I was happy overall. But you know, I know people won't believe this, but as a guy who works in television, I don't like being on television. I don't like to have my face on it. So it, it was painful for me to watch some of that stuff. Look at that doddering old fart stumbling through the jungle.

[Marcus Parks]

You look good, dude. Actually like you, you do look badass.

[Ben Kissel]

You've aged well. You've aged very well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It took me two weeks to get through those episodes. But I, you know, and I, there's things I would do differently because I'm a news guy, but those people really know how to put together a TV show. There's producers that were worked on it and the, the photographers and the technical folks, man, they were just top notch professionals. So they put out a good product. It's just painful. Some of the things that didn't get in that I hope we'll get to make public in some other platform.

[Ben Kissel]

What I loved about Investigation Alien is kind of like my biggest gripe with learning about this stuff. It's always, oh, I got the best thing you ever saw. You can't see it, you know? And so I liked how.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, that's what the entire UAP Congressional hearing was. Yeah, that's how I felt. I was sitting here being like, show me the cuboid flight pattern of the orbs.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah. But that's what I enjoyed about Investigation Alien was you would really grill anyone who showed up to be like, okay, when can I see this? How? When can I establish proof? Because right now you're telling me a lot of things I want to hear, but you got nothing for me. And I really appreciated your candor with these people because that's how I see it too. And, and so what have we learned from the new congressional hearing? That is that information, number one, that.

[Marcus Parks]

George was absolutely vindicated with the jellyfish UFOs that you all made fun of me.

[Ben Kissel]

They look silly.

[Marcus Parks]

They made fun of me. They didn't believe George. They didn't believe in the jellyfish UFOs. When I showed them after Weaponized came out, I thought. I freaked out. I showed them as much as possible, but the fact that it was like one of the top examples that they listed. So, like. Yeah, I'll just say it. So to set it up just so you guys, like, we were talking about the UAP Congressional. I love this because now I can talk with you about this. What did you take from it? What was your first reactions? It does seem. It's good to be talking about this information in such crazy detail, but where are the God damn pictures?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I. We could talk about the Congressional hearing or Immaculate Constellation.

[Marcus Parks]

I want to talk. Yeah. Because Immaculate Constellation is the big reveal of the UAP Congressional hearing. Was that. And that is what they call like a usap, right? Is it called an unspecified secret access program which is just like all SAP? So essentially all SAP got wiped once it got leaked. And then they made a new one, Immaculate Constellation, which does sound like a. A Christian album.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, Jeremy Corbell and I have been in communication with some people about this for a while. I'm not going to say an individual or anything like that, but there had been a lot of communication and. And then there was a report that was prepared that Jeremy took to dc. Now I was. I was stuck here in Las Vegas working for klas. I couldn't make that trip. I did some stories on it from.

[Marcus Parks]

Afar, but and this is a, this is this 11 page document, right, that talks about all of the, the, essentially the evidence that is within Immaculate Constellation.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. It is a Department of Defense program initiative that is hidden inside sort of the structure under the White House. So it's not foiable. You couldn't find it. DOD can stand there and say we don't have a program by that name because officially it is housed somewhere else and, and you can't access it. But that program, using this AI type software would scour all these classified program and platforms, scoop up the good stuff and take it over here and keep it in the, out, out of public view. It's still, that material still exists on classified servers for other agencies. It doesn't disappear. But the best stuff goes over there so that somebody can analyze it. And this, these people that were involved in it and shared this information with us warned us that, boy, you talk about this, use this code name and say it out loud, you are going to be subject to surveillance. And I'm going, oh, you know, it's not exactly a new thing here.

[Marcus Parks]

We're not, Yeah, I mean, I'm in this.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, don't threaten me with that.

[Ben Kissel]

They're watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So Jeremy has taken it a step further. He was willing to bring the person in. In fact, I think I wouldn't be surprised if he had actually made the introductions in person and so get this document wanted to have. He was willing to get this person to show up as the surprise witness and testify. And they said no. And, and then when he gives them this report with his cover page, his name, my name on it, we're giving this to you so you can put it on the record. Suddenly, the next morning when, when this all goes public, they take the top cover page off, introduce it, and the committee thanks Michael Shellenberger for giving it to him. And he says, oh yeah, no problem. Michael Shellenberger is a great guy, good guy, good journalist. But he'd never seen that report. The night before the hearing, Jeremy showed it to him. He'd never seen it. Jeremy introduces it, gives it to Congress, and then they thank Michael Shellenberger for doing it. And they announced, as you saw, a couple of really strange statements. We were told that we can't ask questions about certain things. And they didn't, you know, they, they didn't take it where we thought it should go. They didn't even mention that there had been an offer to bring this person in and to testify under oath. They just, they kept asking the same kind of questions. They always do. It was very odd. Let me just say this though. Anytime you have a congressional hearing, something that important and that weighty, that platform, that's a good step. I applaud those members of Congress for taking the step and having the courage to take on a topic that has been subjected to scorn and derision and stigma for so long, there is risk to them in doing that. So anytime you have a congressional hearing and ask questions and have somebody like Lou Elizondo there and say, yeah, we have UAP recovery efforts, yeah, there is a reverse engineering program. It is hidden, it's real. That's good to get that on the record. The stuff with the immaculate constellation just left the sour taste in my mouth. But still I applaud Congress for having this and for agreeing to take it next step. What I don't understand is the. There's an underlying subtext here that's going on and it's really caused me some sleepless nights. I think Jeremy's had the same reaction. Other bits and pieces of the Trump administration to come. People who have made been very outspoken about UAP transparency now will be confirmed in really high positions. We have the tech bros coming in promising to gut the federal budget, move things around. Obviously we're going to see a lot of money that is in defense programs, I think be transferred to space programs. And I'm wondering if some of those tech people and space people have influenced what Congress was doing there that are in shaping that.

[Marcus Parks]

Do you think we're closer than ever than maybe getting the aliens to take RFK Jr back? Thank you, George. No, you did a good job.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You might eat them some new meat. That's new meat.

[Marcus Parks]

I one thing that come out in this report that is truly, I think it's hard because it's a lot of information and we all want more proof. We all want more granular proof. But the stuff that they talk about is fascinating. The fact that, well, if we don't have a UFO retrieval program, then why are there several members of the military industrial complex essentially being paid health insurance benefits from being injured from these crash retrieval programs. How do we know and what does that mean by injured? Do we know what that means yet?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, there is a report that was prepared as part of the OS App program. One of the documents that I made public and that is now in the public realm, one of the only things from OS App that was made public is about injuries that happen. And some of them are just coincidental.

[Marcus Parks]

Because you wrote that up in Skinwalkers. And the Pentagon, you wrote about the idea of the hitchhiker phenomenon, this other stuff happening. But Moses, like what I heard, physical.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is physical injuries. People who are in proximity to these craft have serious health consequences. There's. I'll give you a name, a name of one of them. John Burroughs, the Rendlesham Forest thing, he got too close to this craft. It had long term health consequences for him. Senator John McCain is the guy who went to bat for him because the Pentagon said, now this is in your head, it's not real. McCain went to bat for him and got him those benefits and other people have them as well. In that OS app report that it was a dirt is what it's called. They listed a number of injuries to civilians and military folks with their Encounters with these UFOs. One of the cases that we had in that book you mentioned, skinwalkers of the Pentagon, these blue orbs. Woman and her daughter driving through, I think it's Oregon. Dark at night by themselves, dark lonely road. See these two blue orbs off in a field. The daughter mentions it to mom who's driving. And as soon as she mentions it, these things react. They suddenly are aware that there's a car there. They fly toward the car, come into the passenger compartment. One of these blue orbs goes into mom's chest on one side and pops out on the other side. And there were health consequences for her that kicked in a couple of hours later when she got home. We, there was a physicians as part of our SAP who monitored her health progress over the next two years. And these injuries are real and they do happen. It's not like these UFOs are trying to kill her. I think they were trying to learn something about her and, and that was some sort of information gathering program. Again, it wasn't, not necessarily an attack, but it had consequences for her. And there are a lot of cases like that and now Congress knows about them. But there's, there's so much more information. That was when I was there last year, my statement that I submitted to him, I said, look this, there's a gigantic storehouse of information that the taxpayers paid for that you have never seen. Not one page of it. These reports are sometimes 140, 200 page long. There's one 143 page analysis of the Tic Tac by engineers and physicists. And it has never been made public, not one page of it. But if, if they tried to get it, I haven't heard about it.

[Marcus Parks]

It's just kind of. Because especially the other Things the report just drops that acts really casual about is the reversed engineered craft built to appear like UAPs from foreign intelligences. And then the idea of like they just, they act like. It's well known that the triangle crafts are just are built by us which I've always a theory I had but in that document they're like oh no, those are ours or, or those are China's.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well we do have some triangles. You know the NIDS which is was based here. Bigelow's organization was the precursor to the OS app program. This was a private effort funded entirely by Robert Bigelow. Brought together all these ex spooks, CIA guys, UFO luminaries, academics, some really big people. Edgar Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon was part of it. Harrison Schmidt US Senator at the time the last man to walk on the moon, he was part of it. I remember I was the speaker who, who was the first one to speak to that group. The first meeting that they had to tell them about Russia and the Russia files. I walked in and I was just blown away by the quality of people who are there. NIDS did its own study of the triangles and they think that the at least some of them are ours because of where, how they tracked them, where they were going. But they couldn't understand why you would do that. Why would you explain expose top secret programs by flying right over an interstate highway over big cities. Some of it didn't make sense column Kelleher, my longtime friend, has a theory about why he what he calls bi direction mimicry is that we see them and we try to match their technology and sometimes they see us and do the same thing. Black helicopters, some of these black helicopters that show up at UFO scenes and at cattle mutilations, they're not helicopters, they look like helicopters. And I think the same thing is happening right now with these drones appearing over air force bases and sensitive military platforms UK Right now as we speak, these things are buzzing highly sensitive installations where nuclear weapons are stored and nobody can do anything about it. They can't bring them down. There are legal difficulties in shooting missiles or something like that at a drone and, and knock it out of the sky, especially in a populated area. And there are international rules about those kind of things. But I can tell you this, they have tried to shoot them down and they can't. And they don't know where they come from. Suddenly they're there. They can't track who's controlling them. You should be able to do that, but you can't. And Then suddenly they're gone and you don't know where they go. Now that's pretty scary. They use this term drones as if, well, you know, you went to Walmart and bought these things. That's not what they are. And you know, I guess people try to say they must be Chinese. Well, I'd say that somebody really dropped the ball if they have made a, a technological leap like that and we didn't see it coming, and now they're flying with impunity over sensitive installations all over and we don't know who they are or how this technology works and we can't do a damn thing about it. I think it's them building things that look like drones, biomimicry and bi directional mimicry in the opposite direction.

[Marcus Parks]

I, that has been a theory I've had since when I first got into the Rendlesham Forest incident and I was reading about this and it kind of, that was a little revelation, I think in mine I was like, they're copying us. They're like, they might be fascinated with us in that way and they're trying to mimic us. That's why also sometimes I wonder about whether or not it is actually an active, purposeful study of us or it's just there's something about us that they're attracted to.

[Ben Kissel]

What better way to hide than to make it look like it's us?

[Marcus Parks]

Let me ask though, like, obviously all this is conjecture. Why do they feel the need to hide? Why? What is even disclosure going to do for us?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because we're violent.

[Marcus Parks]

But, but I mean, I think they can, they could, they're inter, medium, interdimensional creatures. There's nothing we can do to hurt them permanently. Right? Like what is that? What's the point of hiding? Or what? And then what's the point of disclosure? What is really like telling people something that we don't understand that's going on? Is that just going to frighten people? Is it just going to make people crazy?

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know, we don't know what their time frame is. So for them, you know, we think the modern UFO era is last 75, 80 years. For them that might be a weekend. You know, they don't worry about years as we do. And if they have the ability to travel through time, they worry about it even less. I suspect that they live here, that they've always lived here, that it's their planet too. Those alien editorials that they give to people where they say, knock it off with the nuclear weapons and please take care of your planet. Quit Poisoning it just because it's their planet too.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Or maybe they have a long term plan that they needed to be in one piece and not a smoldering nuclear radiated wasteland. Yeah. I think that by going into the ocean, by hiding and keeping, they don't have to have as many confrontations with us as possible, but sometimes they'll do a Phoenix Flights kind of a demonstration to tell us, yeah, we're here, we're not attacking you, but we're here. And we want you to keep it in mind. I think that we only see them when they allow us to see them. Yeah, it's like the Tic Tac. The Tic Tac was so theatrical in a way. It's, it's zipping around over something really big in the ocean. Something that was about the size of a 747. And then Dave Fravor flies down near it to take a look and it reacts to him. Oh, what are you doing here? We didn't know. There's a giant naval flotilla right in this area that's been there for two weeks. Gosh, I'd better get out of here. And then it zips off and it goes to the cap point where they were supposed to be, where all these flights were supposed to go next. It's there already waiting for them, playing games. I think they allowed us to see it. I think we only saw the Tic Tac because they took the shields down at that moment and allowed us to see it because they want us to know they're there. And there's a long term socialization process for humans to get used to it. You know, the Brookings Institute did that study in 1960. It was kept quiet for a long time. But they said if we are, we have confirmed contact with a more technologically advanced civilization, it would have dire consequences. Our social institutions would crumble, people would panic. It would be really creeped out just by announcing that. The same kind of thing that happens when Europeans get to North America. What happened to the people who are already here, who are less sophisticated? So the answer to it was a long term program of socialization. And whether or not this has been done on purpose, it sure as hell looks like this is how it would go if you were doing it on purpose. Movies, tv, books, aliens, they're real. Sometimes they're just our little buddies. Like. Like E.T.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, they're cute.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I worry about this stuff, you know, So I don't know. You know, I think about this stuff a lot. Obviously, of course, I don't have the answers. But I. I feel since that Netflix thing, I feel a little bit better about the whole process and, and what might happen from your grave.

[Ben Kissel]

Now, do you, in your, all of your files, do you have stuff that you could never show us in your files? And if you do, why?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, I have it because, you know, it's like I would learn things about OS app and about nids. That helps me, even though I can't go public with it, it helps me understand the playing field. It allows me to know who is completely full of shit and making stuff up sometimes. So. And when I get material like that, there are conditions attached to it, and I honor those conditions. But my intention is always, I'm going to find a way to get this out at some point. You know Skinwalker Ranch, I was hearing that from my friends at NIDS. They bought it in 96 and I start hearing what they're doing. I wasn't able to. I kept pestering them, let me go. It was seven years before I could print a word, you know, and with OS app, it was longer than that. It was 10 years. I said all that stuff because I had agreed to do it. And it allowed me to be. To have a nose under the tent and to learn things about the big picture and to be able to report other things in the context of what I knew to be true. So it was valuable. Anything I have is because someday I want to report it. And, you know, and I have been able to report a lot of things that I never thought I'd be able to release. So everything that I've got here, I've got some cool stuff if you want to see it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Yeah, buddy. Yes, we do. Also, I got to show to pitch for you called George's Boxes, where you just go through your box, you pull out a mystery and you investigate it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I collect a lot of UFO related artwork, and if you ever get to my house, you'll see it. Can you see that?

[Marcus Parks]

Whoa. What is that?

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's me writing a ufo.

[Marcus Parks]

That's great.

[Ben Kissel]

That's very George Clinton of you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

A little artist, local artist had done that and then put it up for sale. I think it was on display in city hall. They knew damn good and well I'd come get it just so it didn't fall into the wrong hands.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you got so many files. Yeah. What do you. Yeah, show us something. Give us a hint. Give. Show us something.

[Ben Kissel]

Also, I don't want to be morbid, but what's your will look like?

[Henry Zebrowski]

These are lobby cards for movies So I collect lobby cards. There's a whole market in this. This is from Invasion of the Body Snatchers, signed by Kevin McCarthy.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I have a thing about mantises that we could talk about. These are lobby cards from the Deadly Mantis. I don't know if you ever saw that movie.

[Marcus Parks]

No, I've never seen the movie, but I know the aliens. I know the Memphis. I know the mantis. Aliens are all the time saying, I want to know where they.

[Henry Zebrowski]

For you.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, show me something. Show me something good.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Come on. Come on. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, it is. It's a very. It is a gross little alien man. Little penis.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's a friend of mine who's a very talented artist and sculptor, Jeff Taylor. He. He had made Kirk Douglas like this and takes it to these model companies and model shows and sells them, and. And he had traded a Kirk Douglas for this alien when he saw it. You can't see it, but close up, it's got veins and stuff.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it looks good.

[Ben Kissel]

It's wild.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I would wear pants if I was this guy. I'd wear pants.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cover his little butt. Oh, my God. Looks like my body.

[Ben Kissel]

It really does.

[Marcus Parks]

Technically, it's like looking in a mirror. It's not fair. It tells you when you lose weight, you look worse.

[Henry Zebrowski]

In that section of this, you can't see it, are books. That's a big stack of books. This pile are ones I have to read. This pile is ones for the radio show. These. These are books I have read that I haven't figured out where to put yet.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, this is my life.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Russia stuff. That's. You know. I made two trips to Russia in the 90s and brought back a lot of stuff. Some of it was not classified. Some of it was classified, and I had to be really careful about how I got out. Got it out of the country.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow. You just have so many UFO cases just around you. This is literally. It's. It's Mulder's office.

[Ben Kissel]

Just a little mutilation stuff.

[Henry Zebrowski]

These are a lot of. This is government files. A lot of it are case files that I got from police agencies. There were a bunch of cattle mutilations here in Nevada in the 70s before I even started doing this stuff. So I went out local lawmen to share photos with me and the. And the original police reports and a lot of newspaper clippings.

[Marcus Parks]

We gotta get you an intern. That's what you need. You need an intern in here, man.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, probably so. This is a really interesting case. Las Vegas Fireball. So April 18, 1962, which is my birthday, not the right year, but that.

[Marcus Parks]

Date, that's my wife's birthday.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This fireball, it comes in over Cuba, comes into their atmosphere over Cuba, goes all the way up, up the eastern seaboard. It gets to about New York and it takes an abrupt turn and then goes all the way across the United States. Fighter jets were chased, were dispatched to go chase. It couldn't keep up with it. It gets to Utah and it lands in this little town, knocks out the power to the whole town, takes off again and then gets over Nevada just outside of in between Las Vegas and Mesquite and explodes. And that fireball was seen, was so big it was seen all over the West. I, I tracked down the guy who, this is when I first started. I tracked down the guy who led the posse out to look for wreckage. They thought it was an airplane at first. He's, he's long gone now. And then I got the original blue book reports and they said it was a meteor. You know a meteor comes in as up the Eastern seaboard, takes a left turn, 90 degree turn and lands, lands, takes off again. So that would be a cool. I, I dug up the, not only the Blue book records but all the newspaper accounts at the same time.

[Marcus Parks]

Damn, dude. This is all like this could be a good segment on coast to coast too, man.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is a file on Howard Cannon. Howard Cannon was the U.S. senator from Nevada. Everybody says Harry Reid, you know he did great things. And I, I, I've had had a 30 year secret conversation with him and he helped me immensely and I helped him and got him involved in the subject and he got it on that the funding that made for OS app which led to a tip which led to the UAP task force which is why this congressional hearings are happening in the first place. It happened here. It started with Reed, his predecessor though four term senator Howard Cannon who had, was like the father of Nellis Air Force Base. He was very close to the guys from Lockheed, had a deep interest in UFOs that he never spoke about publicly. But I did talk to him before he died and he had been his closest friend in the Senate was Barry Goldwater. You've heard those stories about Barry Goldwater. He wanted to go to the blue room at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. He had heard about these flying saucers. I want to see it. I'm the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee or Intelligence Committee. I've got the highest clearances. I want to go.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, well let Me look. Yeah.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, it turns out Howard Cannon, his buddy, had also tried to go. And he told me. I asked him about it. He said, yeah, we. Barry wanted to go, and I did too. But he says, look, what would be the point? You get in there and see it. You couldn't tell anybody what. What you see it. And he said, and people would call you crazy.

[Marcus Parks]

But he was like, people already call me crazy. People already call me crazy. People can look at it. Then everybody could say I was crazy and I could sound like a crazy person at the bus stop. That's what I. That's my life.

[Henry Zebrowski]

A lot of. A lot of files related to NIDs and OS app. So the Skinwalker Ranch, I got boxes and boxes of Skinwalker Ranch stuff. But there was another ranch one in Colorado where the same kind of things happen. And the guys from NIDS and then into OSAP did surveys of other places. One of the reasons I was allowed to go to Skinwalker was that the phenomena had gone underground for a while. And they thought by me going there and doing a story about it, it might alert them to where other hot spots could be that they could study. It did. There were several. There was Sedona, Yakima, Washington, Dulce, New Mexico. And they sent teams and were there on the ground for months and months.

[Marcus Parks]

See, that's fascinating. That's fascinating, George. Like that idea that they were. Because you. Everyone says that about Skinwalker Ranch. They're like, well, why isn't it happen a lot then? Like, if. Oh, if they're everywhere, if they're out in the middle of nowhere, why have we only a. Why Skinwalker Ranch, the only celebrity version of the. The evil haunted ranch. And just like it seems like the phenomena is all over the country, a.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Lot of it comes from looking for it. You know, you have to be willing to look. If you put the kind of effort that NIDs and then OS app did, and now Brandon Fugal and his team and focused on one area, you might find a whole heck of a lot of stuff everywhere that there's some degree or another now it's higher. At Skinwalker, part of what I could not release was there are files were these investigators boots on the ground, not at the ranch. They went everywhere around the ranch in this concentric circles further and further out. They talked to hundreds of people around there that had nothing to do with Bigelow, who shared their stories of creature encounters that were just crazy. Off the. Off the wall, ridiculous gargoyles that look like what's on top of The Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. On top of a trailer a mile away from Skinwalker Ranch. Broad daylight. Woman and her husband seeing this stuff. They didn't want their names used, which is one reason that this stuff has never been released and may never be released. But there are so many weird creatures and activities. They saw so many. They were able to make a map of the. What the routes are used by these various creatures. Werewolves, dino, beavers, things that are ridiculous.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No government investigator wants to be the guy who intervest, who goes and chases down stories of werewolves. But you know, the point of all SAP was you follow the evidence where it leads. They're there to study UFOs and figure out why they keep appearing so often. Do you just ignore the fact that every single one of the government investigators who went there took something home with them that was an outbreak of weird at their homes? Wolf men, creatures, orbs inside their house. Shadow beings. There's one guy whose name will will come out later, but it happened to him at the ranch. Immediately his family starts seeing these creatures. Broad daylight, wolf men out in their yard leaning on a tree. Who do you even tell that to?

[Marcus Parks]

I don't know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

People like us.

[Marcus Parks]

And then we're. And then you just try. You just sound like a. You're from an insane asylum. He's like, sorry.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It not only happened to him and his family right after he came back, it's continuing now. It's continuing 11, 12 years after he was there on the ranch. And it's not only one house. He sold one house on the east coast and then moved to a different state. His kids moved into that house. It's still happening to them there and it's happening to he and his wife in the state where they moved to.

[Marcus Parks]

Fascinating.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Ignore that. Not put it in the files because somebody will think it's crazy. Or do you just follow the evidence.

[Marcus Parks]

Where it leads, that is. Man, George, what a life. So cool. Thank you so much for sharing this stuff with us. Is there, before we go, is there like a white whale for you? Is there like a thing out there that you want to land besides just literally having lunch with an alien?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, Lazar and Area 51. You know, I don't know that anyone's ever going to admit that that was real. If there is element 115, a piece of it somewhere, it would really be pretty cool to. To get that confirmed in a way that could be publicly acknowledged. I think that would be my white whale because that was my point of entry for this, you know?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I took so much grief over it still due to some extent, but it, it, it made my skin a lot tougher and thicker and, and I think it, it helped to put a burr under my saddle and inspire me to stick with it. Because I was so pissed off at how not just I was treated, it was more about the topic. You know, it's really, it's kind of come full circle with Netflix because the stigma was so real back then. I had all kinds of journalists, newspapers, other broadcasters who made fun of me, editorial cartoons and all that. I don't mind, I, I'm a grown man. I can handle that. It comes with the territory. But they'd never done any of the work. They'd never gone out there hundreds of nights in a row and to go out at near Area 51 to see what's flying around, or interviewed the witnesses or filed FOIA complaints or read the documents, reams of documents that were already publicly available, they never did any of that. What they could do is make wisecracks. Look, there's a Elvis coming back from the dead on a flying saucer. And I just couldn't understand it. So my main goal back in those days, starting, and it's still true this day, was to get other journalists to take it seriously. And now it's happening. There's a whole new generation of people who now find they can pursue this topic. They can put together news reports and newspaper accounts and, and the stories get past their editors and, and it's taken seriously and it's being looked at in Congress. That Netflix thing, what appealed to me about it, I didn't really want to go travel the world and leave my wife at home for all those months and everything by herself. But I wanted to be able to have a global platform. That's really what it was, is the whole world. Just like you said, you weren't up to speed on it. That was the point of it, to get the public up to speed. It wasn't created for UFO world because I know that they're gonna and, and moan and whine about it no matter what.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, there's nothing you could do. You literally could show up with an alien on a, on a tour. You, you could do a dual stand up tour with an alien and they're still going to be like fake or whatever they're gonna be.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Exactly. I can arrive at the Washington, Washington hearing in Bob Lazar's flying saucer sport model with a nine foot tall alien and walk in and they'd be going, come on now, how do we know he's from Alpha Centauri? You know, where's his birth certificate?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Does he have an. Only fans? Yeah. Yeah, immediately.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But I really. That would be. That would be my white whale. If they could, somehow, we could figure out a way to confirm all that stuff. I am comfortable with the idea that I'll die without. Before I know ultimately what the truth is. I'm okay with that because the journey has been so worthwhile, learning about how government works, how the military, how they operate and. And spread disinformation and muddy the waters to keep this secret. They're good at their job. They're better at their job than I am at mine, but you have to try, right? And even though we don't learn everything, we do know we have the locations of where some of this stuff is stashed. The goodies we know about it. Can't just knock on the door and say, let me in. But Congress knows where some of it is, too, so that's a. That's a big step. That's a lot of progress. And I am not an optimist at all. I'm. I'm the pessimist. I'm the one that says they are never going to release this stuff. After that. That last Arrow report, not this one that just came out, but last year's, it became very clear that they dismissed all those witnesses. They made an appeal to all these whistleblowers. Come on in, tell us your stuff. Bring us your evidence. It seemed like it was a counterintelligence operation to identify who the leaks are, who they need to nullify, who they need to keep an eye on. And then they dismissed it all. Just, you know, Sean Kirkpatrick went into his own speaking to Arcana. Given all these interviews, dismissing all these really honorable people who came in, risk their reputations to share the truth, and then got dumped on. But. But I am a little bit optimistic by what I've been seeing over the last couple of weeks and hearing from pretty high up folks who think there's going to be an announcement of some kind. Like, I've heard that every year for 37 years since I've been involved in this subject, and I've never believed it and never thought it was going to be true. I have at least a little bit of hope that maybe we're on the cusp of something here.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, this is real. And you're part of the reason why. You're part of the reason why we're here because of the work that you've done well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I hope so. I mean, you know, I could tell you the reaction to that Netflix thing. Holy cow. I mean, I get a lot of email, usually a thousand a day, something like that. It's doubled. I got messages so far today from South Africa, from Bali, Denmark, Paris, Scotland, Paraguay. I've got them from Costa Rica, Brazil, Chile, Mexico, Canada, Tasmania, Morocco, Australia, Zimbabwe, Ireland, Iceland, Sweden. A lot of them with videos attached and photos and incredible stories. I've had offers from ex military, ex intelligence guys, professionals in all kinds of fields, commercial pilots, all them offering to help because they saw that series. And so it really is kind of an encouraging reaction because the. The response has been overwhelmingly positive, and it's exactly what I hope to accomplish and. And what these producers and the Netflix folk help to accomplish.

[Ben Kissel]

Well, it worked. It really. Three years in and I'm hooked. Finally.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you got him.

[Ben Kissel]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. He thought this stuff was stupid. He's yelling at me, and now he's into it.

[Ben Kissel]

So.

[Marcus Parks]

You won, George. And I'm actually a little. Actually angry a little bit because it took to you Enjoy. Again. Can't wait to come to the opening night party for Vincent Secret. I know that you're gonna show the world of what a true investigative journalist's body looks like, and I want to say thank you for actually wearing some of the samples just on the show today. I just.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I would like to have a longer period of time to prepare the public to, you know.

[Ben Kissel]

Oh, this has been great, George. Thank you so much. We always got your back in our last podcast. Of the last.

[Marcus Parks]

Always. Absolutely. So go check out investigation Aliens, and go check out Weaponized with George Knapp and Jeremy Corbin. It is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you, guys. Always great to talk to you, dude.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you so much, Mr. Nap. All right, so, hey, we gotta come.

[Ben Kissel]

To the house sometime. We'll let you know next time we're in Vegas. Can I come to your house?

[Henry Zebrowski]

We can do that.

[Marcus Parks]

We're good. We'll bring bourbon.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All right. All right, we'll do that.

[Ben Kissel]

I love it. I'll see you soon, George.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Bye.