Introducing: Cultivating H.E.R. Space Podcast | We Ride at Dawn: Ways We Show Up for Our Sisters with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford | Network Drop

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Laugh with Me" - Network Drop for Cultivating H.E.R. Space Podcast

Host: iHeartPodcasts
Episode: We Ride at Dawn: Ways We Show Up for Our Sisters with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Date: May 22, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This special edition of "Laugh with Me" introduces listeners to a standout episode of the "Cultivating H.E.R. Space" podcast, hosted by Dr. Dominique Broussard and Terri Lomax. The episode features Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, acclaimed psychologist and host of "Therapy for Black Girls." The main theme centers around Black women's sisterhood—the transformative, sustaining force that binds women together, heals trauma, and empowers individuals and communities. Through stories, personal insight, and practical advice, the episode explores the nuanced challenges, joys, and responsibilities of showing up for other women, especially within Black communities.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the Power of Sisterhood

[06:17]

• Dr. Joy reflects on her renowned quote from "Sisterhood Heals":

  “That thing Black women feel when we gather is a kind of glue, a stabilizing force we've actively created out of the pain and trauma of our lived experiences in order to hold us up and together.”

• She describes sisterhood as “powerful but often intangible”—an energy Black women feel when they come together.

2. Dr. Joy’s Origin Story & Mission

[08:12 – 10:13]

• Dr. Joy discusses her transition from college counseling to founding Therapy for Black Girls, highlighting her desire to decode "everyday" language about mental health and make professional insights more accessible.
• Her mission: Give back to the community by making mental health knowledge widely available, especially for Black women.

3. Writing ‘Sisterhood Heals’ – From Pivot to Purpose

[10:32 – 11:41]

• The book began as an event scheduled for 2020, pivoted into a book due to the pandemic.
• The intent: Create a space for Black women to experience and discuss sisterhood, both online and in person.

4. Guidelines for Healthy Sisterhood

[12:31 – 14:07]

• Dr. Joy lays out two key rules:
  • Remember each other’s humanity, especially online.
  • “Praise publicly and critique privately” to protect the emotional safety of the community.
• Importance of “calling in” vs. “calling out,” and not piling on negativity online.

5. Handling Conflicts and Critique in Sisterhood

[16:28 – 18:48]

• Before offering critique, ask: “Is it necessary? Am I the right person to deliver it? Would I say this in person?”
• Social media makes it easy for people to be harsh (“digital courage”), but it is best to refrain from unnecessary public criticism.

6. The ‘Bougie, Classy, Ratchet’ Segment

[22:00 – 27:07]

• A lighthearted series of questions and sentence completions help showcase Dr. Joy’s personality, emphasizing that multidimensionality is welcome in sisterhood spaces.
• Notable moment: Dr. Joy cites a favorite piece of advice—sometimes, the message you deliver isn't meant for you, but for others.

  “There’s often a message that comes through you that is not for you.” – Dr. Joy [23:19]

7. Jealousy in Friendships

[25:42 – 32:47]

• Dr. Joy highlights that jealousy is a normal emotion, not something to be ashamed of.

  “Jealousy is an emotion just like any other, and there's no need to feel ashamed by it.” – Dr. Joy [26:01]

• Uses "Girlfriends" (TV show) as an example of how jealousy can arise and how not addressing it can disrupt relationships.
• Recommends creating space in friendships for uncomfortable, “prickly” conversations so deeper connections can form.

8. Navigating Prickly Conversations & Conflict Resolution

[33:20 – 35:02]

• Not all difficult conversations will resolve perfectly, but they can be revisited.
• Timing is crucial; don’t bring up tough topics in the middle of big life events (e.g., engagements).

9. Cherished Aspects of Black Women’s Sisterhood

[35:20 – 38:51]

• Authenticity and the freedom to “be silly” are treasured traits in Dr. Joy’s circle.
• The magic of Black women’s sisterhood is rooted in shared history, ancestral connection, and instinctive mutual support.

10. Building and Maintaining Sisterhood

[41:34 – 45:43]

• Be intentional: If it’s not scheduled, it won’t happen.
• Digital communities are valid and powerful spaces for connection—don’t overlook them.
• Tips for building bonds: take small steps to move acquaintances to friends, be willing to risk rejection.

11. Handling Friendship Endings and Changing Circles

[48:53 – 53:38]

• Dr. Joy discusses disenfranchised grief—friendship breakups are significant losses that deserve time and space to grieve.
• In friendship circles, it’s okay not to pick sides but boundaries must be set. System (group) will need to adapt.

12. Impact, Perfectionism, and Legacy

[54:12 – End]

• Dr. Joy shares lessons learned as her business and influence have grown: confronting her perfectionism, learning entrepreneurship, and deliberately creating a supportive, affirming team culture.
• On legacy:

  “The thing I want my kids and my grandkids…to really remember is the importance of sharing your story…because they also unlock something for other people.” – Dr. Joy [58:30]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [06:17] Dr. Joy:
  “When Black women gather, we can feel the energy. There is something incredible about it… That quote was my attempt to put language to something so powerful but often intangible.”
• [13:31] Dr. Joy:
  “It’s really important for us to remember each other’s humanity behind these screens we are interacting with.”
• [25:42] Dr. Joy:
  “Jealousy is an emotion just like any other, and there’s no need to feel ashamed by it.”
• [29:46] Dr. Joy:
  “When we do not deal with things, things will deal with us, and they pop up in all of these ways that are often very disruptive to our relationships and our friendships.”
• [36:22] Dr. Joy:
  “Because of our history, there is something that connects us just by our lineage. The fact that we’re here means our people had to traverse tremendous challenges.”
• [47:12] Dr. Joy:
  “With a little bit of effort, some of the people in the background of our lives could maybe move to the foreground. But we got to be willing to face rejection.”
• [54:12] Dr. Joy:
  “I did not realize how much of a perfectionist I was until I was in the book writing process.”
• [58:30] Dr. Joy:
  “The thing I want my kids and my grandkids…to really remember is the importance of sharing your story and your thoughts…”

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [06:17] Defining Sisterhood & Dr. Joy’s Motivation
• [08:12] Origin Story & Therapy for Black Girls
• [10:32] Writing ‘Sisterhood Heals’
• [12:31] Community Guidelines & Protecting Sisterhood
• [16:28] Handling Critique & Digital Courage
• [22:00] Bougie, Classy, Ratchet Segment
• [25:42] Jealousy in Friendships
• [29:46] Girlfriends Example: Navigating Jealousy
• [33:20] Navigating Conflict & Difficult Conversations
• [35:20] Cherished Traits in Sisterhood
• [41:34] Maintaining and Building Sisterhood
• [48:53] Grieving Friendship Endings
• [54:12] Impact, Perfectionism, and Legacy
• [58:30] Message for Future Generations

---

Final Takeaways

• True sisterhood is both a celebration and a site for gentle correction—a safe place to grow.
• Authenticity, intentional maintenance, and vulnerability are keys to sustaining powerful, healthy communities.
• Sharing your story is not just healing for you, but it can be a catalyst for healing in others.
• Difficult emotions and conversations are normal; facing them strengthens bonds.
• Community—online or in-person—remains vital for Black women, especially in a world marked by misrepresentation and isolation.
• Legacies are built not just by achievement, but by honest storytelling and fostering connection.

---

Transcript

[LabCorp Announcer]

Cervical cancer is one of the most preventable cancers we face today. Yet more than 13,000 women will be diagnosed in 2026, and over 4,000 will lose their lives. Many of these cases happen because screening wasn't done in time. Even with the HPV vaccination, regular screening is still essential. More than half of new cervical cancer cases occur in women who have never or rarely been screened. At LabCorp, we are here to support those conversations and prevention. Visit our Women's health page on labcorp.com

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance and now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14 second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too.

[Terri Lomax]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Pros Save more on the materials you need to get the job done inside and out at Lowe's right now. Get 10% off in stock Trex Naturals decking now available in more styles plus get 15% off select custom entry, interior and storm doors. Then we'll deliver it all straight to your job site to help keep your jobs moving. Get the brand's pros trust priced right

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

and ready when you need them.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Our best lineup is here at Lowe's, valid through 527 while supplies last selection varies by location. Save on family essentials at Safeway and Albertsons this week at Safeway and Albertsons enjoy eight piece double breaded famous chicken fried or baked dark meat featuring four legs and four thighs for just $5.99 each. Member price available in the deli and sweet red cherries are $2.97 per pound limit 6 pounds member price with digital coupon plus 24 ounce selected varieties of fresh cut fruit bowls are $5 each. Visit safewayoralbertsons.com for more deals and ways to save

[Terri Lomax]

on this week's episode of Cultivating Her Space.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

The thing I want my kids and my grandkids and whoever else is coming after me to really remember is the importance of sharing your story and sharing your thoughts and your ideas. Because they are important not only for you to stay, but because they also unlock something for other people.

[Terri Lomax]

Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration or a fresh perspective. If you have any aha moments or appreciate anything from this episode, please leave us a review to let us know we're on the right track. Also, we release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe on itunes and visit cultivating herspace.com to access our exclusive after show and other bonus content from the Patreon tab.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Welcome to Cultivating Herspace, a podcast dedicated to uplifting women like you. We're your hosts, Dr. Dominique Broussard, a college professor and psychologist, and Terry Lomax,

[Terri Lomax]

a techie and motivational speaker. In a world where Black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from fibroids to fake friends and create a safe space where Black women can just be. Okay, lady, today we have a very special guest. She's the goat. Okay, I'm just a goat, of all things. But I'm going to read her bio so you can learn more about her if she is new to you. Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford is a licensed psychologist and the host of the wildly popular mental health podcast Therapy for Black Girls. She's also the author of Sisterhood Heals the Transformative Power of Healing Community. Her work focuses on making mental health topics more relevant and accessible for Black women, and she delights in using pop culture to illustrate psychological concepts. Named by Glamour magazine as a game changer for her work in the mental health field, she received her bachelor's degree in psychology from Xavier University in Louisiana, her master's degree in vocational rehabilitation counseling from Arkansas State, and her PhD in counseling psychology from the University of Georgia. Her work has been featured in Essence, Forbes, MTV Today, Huffington post, Black Enterprise, Refinery29, I'm not done yet, y'. All, Teen Vogue, Women's health, among others. Dr. Joy lives in Atlanta, Georgia with her husband and two sons. Dr. Joy, welcome back to Cultivating Her Space.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me again. It's an honor to chat with you again.

[Terri Lomax]

You are so welcome. We are so excited to have you.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Yes, we are definitely looking forward to this conversation. And so we will start with our quote of the day. And Dr. Joy, these words will sound familiar to you. And for those who have read your book, Sisterhood Heals, these words will sound familiar as well because this quote comes from the intro in your book. That thing Black women feel when we gather is a kind of glue, a stabilizing force we've actively created out of the pain and trauma of our lived experiences in order to hold us up and together. And I'm going to read that one More time for the folks in the back. Make sure you heard this quote. That thing black women feel when we gather is a kind of glue, a stabilizing force we actively created out of the pain and trauma of our lived experiences in order to hold us up and together. Dr. Joy, when you hear your words reflected back to you from your book, give us some more context and tell us what. What comes up for you when you hear these words.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

So I will start by saying, Dom, that that is still a very, like, weird experience to, like, have somebody read your words back. It's like, oh, I actually. I actually wrote that, so I will just start there. But I think so much of me, like, the. The motivation for writing the book and as I was writing so much of it was about, like, how do I put into language this thing that often feels, like, hard to describe and, like, very intangible, but we know it when we feel it, right? Like, when black women gather, we can feel the energy. Like, there is something, I think, just incredible about when black women gather. And so that. That quote that you just read, I think was my attempt to try to put some language to this thing that is so powerful but often intangible that happens between black women.

[Terri Lomax]

That is such a beautiful way to put it. Cause I think we've all experienced that where you. Whether it's in a church setting or a healing circle, it's like, there's something special here in the room. Okay, so, Dr. Joy, we're gonna take you down memory lane a little bit. Okay? The last time you appeared on our show was the fall of 2019, four years ago on season three, episode eight. And today you're on season 22 of our show. Also, the last time we chatted, we talked about your journey, your glow up, and you've glowed up even more since then. Okay, so we'll talk about that too. But we talked about, I think in the interview you shared that you had left your job a year prior and were in full time, full time in your practice. And we were actually recording in a library before work, Dom and I, and we were doing a bulk recording and recorded with you. And then we interviewed Rachel Cargill that same day, just to kind of bring it all together, because we know you interviewed Rachel and you have a connection with her. So with all that context, for those who might be new to you, can you tell us a little bit about who you are, your origin story, and how you became the doctor Joy, the goat that we see today?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Wow. What a trip down memory lane. But also, just like I also think like a beautiful example of the connection. Right? So, I mean, you know, Dr. Dom and I go way back, and then Rachel and I have books that came out in the same year and have all these other connections. And now I'm back here with you. So just a beautiful example, I think, of sisterhood and how it happens in that way, you know. So for people who may be newer to me, I am trained as a psychologist, as you talked about. And so much of my work really has been focused on the black community. Because it is through training that I realized, like, the conversations my mom and my aunties had about, like, their nerves being bad and all of those kinds of things. Like, that was actually language for anxiety that they didn't have language for yet. And so, you know, it really has felt like my mission for much of my training to kind of use the things that I've learned to be able to give it back to the community. Like, I don't want to just have this knowledge and hoard it for myself. I want to be able to use it to help other people and help them to kind of live better lives for themselves. And so my background before therapy for black Girls was my full time job was college counseling. And what I still have a love. I love college students. But right prior to becoming Therapy for black Girls full time, I was the director of the counseling center at Clark Atlanta. And on every campus I was on, it was really important for me to create spaces for the black women on campus to have a place to go to talk about what was going on with them. You know, y' all know all of the stats, but, you know, we know that there is still a lot of stigma related to mental health in the black community. And so it felt really important to create a space for students to come in. 1 see that there's like a friendly face in the counseling center and like, oh, somebody who might get me. I can go there if I need help. And I really feel like the work that I do now with therapy for black girls is an extension of that work. And some of those same conversations that we had in those early days on campuses we are still having on the podcast and through our blogs and those kinds of things. So I really feel like there is a kind of straight through line to the work I was doing on college campuses in connecting to the work that I do now.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

And thank you so much for all of the work that you do. And we know you've had so much success with the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. What inspired you to write Your book, Sisterhood Heals, about black women, sisterhood and friendship.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Yeah. So Sisterhood Heals actually was supposed to be our very first live experience for therapy for Black girls. And of course, it was happening in 2020 when everything shut down.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Right.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

And so through conversations with my literary agent, she asked me, like, well, what were you planning to talk about that weekend? Like, what kinds of things did you want to have happen? And that kind of became the outline for the book. So the community had been asking, like, we really want to get together, like, when are we going to do something in person? And my goal was to create a weekend experience where people could kind of come and talk about and experience the sisterhood that we already talked about, like this. This thing that happens when black women gather. And so I really feel like so much of the foundation of the work at Therapy for Black Girls and the work that I've done even before Therapy for Black Girls, is built on sisterhood. Like, it is other women who have encouraged me. And I really feel like there is so much power in Heal healing that happens when black women come together. And I've seen that in the groups that I've run and, you know, just even in the Therapy for Black Girls community. And so it felt like a very natural fit to actually work, to write about sisterhood, because I do feel like that is the foundation of therapy for black girls.

[Terri Lomax]

Talk about the power of the pivot, okay? Because we all had plans in 2020, and it was like the plan trying to go to Bali, y'. All. I still haven't been. I'm like, dang. But I love the fact that you took the opportunity to transform how you were going to deliver the message, right? Because the pandemic interrupted a lot of our plans. Now it's like, okay, we're going to pivot, and we're going to create this book. Look at God, right? Sometimes you work it out together and come together. So I have a question for you, Dr. Joy. I want to know, when it comes to, like, guidelines or housekeeping tips for the sisterhood communities, what comes to mind for you on how to protect that container? I have a conflict resolution background, so I'm not trying to, like, be a negative Nancy, as people say, but I want to talk about some of the guidelines, but also, like, how where does conflict resolution fit in within that sort of community framework?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Yeah, I think that that's an important question you asked, Terri. I mean, because, you know, the book is both a celebration of, like, the things that we do well, but also a gentle invitation for, like, how we can correct and course correct some of the things that, like, get in the way of sisterhood. And so one of the things I talk about in the book, especially with, like, so much online activity, and we know that sisterhood is very digital in a lot of ways now, that it is really important for us to remember each other's humanity behind these screens that we are interacting with. Right. So it's very easy, I think, sometimes to kind of pile on that something that you see happening with a black woman. But I encourage people to really take a step back and, like, remember, like, if this person were in your faith or if you saw this experience happening in real life, would you be likely to go over and like, be the 25th person to say some negative thing or. Or would you, like, mind your business or even maybe try to help her? Right. And so I think it's really important for us to remember each other's humanity and not the flatness that happens when we're like, interacting as avatars online, because I think it's really easy to kind of get caught up in that. But one of the other kind of guidelines I like to talk about in terms of sisterhood is to praise publicly and critique privately. And I think most of us are aware of like, conversations that happen outside of the house and then conversations that happen inside the house. Right. And so even if you need to call a sister out or in with love, does that have to happen in a way where other people are kind of drawing attention to it? You know, like, is there a way that you could deliver that message maybe privately through an email or pull somebody aside, as opposed to kind of making a public spectacle of critiquing another black woman.

[Terri Lomax]

Hey, lady, it's Terri here. Dom and I want to take a moment to thank you for choosing to listen to our podcast. We love you for real and we want to give you a chance to learn more about what's important to us. So tell us what you think about this.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Imagine a world where you have a chance to get featured on the Cultivating Her Space podcast and share your business, brand or perspective with millions around the globe. Imagine joining our monthly virtual video check ins where you can connect with like minded black women like you and share your ideas and episode suggestions with Terri and I. Now I want you to imagine a world where you're in the exclusive Cultivating Her Space Sanctuary Slack channel, and throughout your day and week, you are conversing with us about what's happening in your life and sharing funny gifts and your personal wins. How does that sound?

[Terri Lomax]

Hopefully this is up your alley, lady, because we are taking things to the next level this year and we're doubling down on investing in our community. That means you. We want to meet you, connect with you, and create communities of genuine women who love on black women and push our culture and movement forward. We launched this podcast in 2019, and to date, we have not missed a week. We've been great stewards of our platform, all while working full time and navigating our own ups and downs. We release fresh new content every single Friday like clockwork. And we have hundreds of valuable episodes and workshops that can really help you up level your life. So if you love our mission or you've gotten value from us, we invite you to give back and help us push this community effort forward. Visit herspacepodcast.com and click Patreon. You can learn more about our goals and exclusive offerings on Patreon. And we highly, highly encourage you to join the sister frontier so that you can get some one on one time with us. We also have an option for you to donate on a one time basis if that meets your needs. Again, herspace podcast.com and you can click that link that says Patreon. All right, lady, we'll hop right back into the conversation.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Oh, okay.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Mm. Okay.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

So I know that there's a lot of folks, a lot of ladies who are listening to this and they're like, wait, say what now? So I can't message her, get in those comments and publicly say what I need to say. I need to do it privately. How does one go about critiquing privately for someone that you don't, you might not know, but you're like, ooh, sis, ooh, we need to, we need to talk about this.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Well, you bring up a good point, because I do think something that you need to think about is like, is your critique even necessary? Right? So if you don't have a relationship with somebody that would intimate that they would, like, listen to anything that you have to say, you know, there is no personal connection. Like, what is making you feel like you need to offer critique anyway, Right? Because of course, we all have thoughts and, you know, ideas about like, oh, I wouldn't do that if I were her, or whatever, but do you need to deliver it? Right? And so again, one of the things I talk about is like, asking, like, are you the one that needs to say something and does it need to be said now? And is your motivation for like giving some kind of critique actually driven by something else? And again, I think it is really easy to kind of get caught up in, like, this piling on online because we see something and we're like, oh, I wouldn't wear that outfit. Or, she's making us look bad. And you like all of those kinds of things. But if you would not say this and deliver this critique to this person in real life, you probably should not offer it online either. Because I think, again, when we get behind these avatars and, like, again, our humanity is just flattened online, like you, it almost feels like you are interacting with characters as opposed to, like, real people. And so I think it is important to remember, like, if I saw this person in real life and they had this outfit on, would I go up to her and say, I wouldn't have worn those shoes with that outfit? Like, most of us probably wouldn't. But online, for some reason, we feel like we can say these things to other people, as if these are not actual people with, like, feelings and emotions. And so to your point, Dr. Dahm, I think if you don't feel like this is some critique that this person would listen to because you don't actually have a relationship, you should probably just write it in your journal as opposed to try to leave it in the comments.

[Terri Lomax]

I love that Dr. Joy over here preaching, y'.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

All.

[Terri Lomax]

Let me just say it's the introspection for me, okay? It's like, let me check in with myself before I just go project and give this feedback that may not be warranted. So I love that. And then the ways that you describe the online experience, I think that was just so beautiful and so on point, because it often does feel flat. And like you said, there are a lot of times people. What do they call them, Twitter fingers and stuff like that. They not gonna say the stuff that they say online in person most of the time. Right? But it gives you, instead of a liquid courage. I guess we need another name for, like, the social media. The courage.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Digital courage or something.

[Terri Lomax]

Digital courage, right. Like, it gives you this.

[LabCorp Announcer]

Cervical cancer is one of the most preventable cancers we face today. Yet more than 13,000 women will be diagnosed in 2026, and over 4,000 will lose their lives. Many of these cases happen because screening wasn't done in time. Even with the HPV vaccination, regular screening is still essential. More than half of new cervical cancer cases occur in women who have never or rarely been screened. At LabCorp, we are here to support support those conversations and prevention. Visit our Women's health page on labcorp.com

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14 second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotional, emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available, and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

We.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. Pretty. Yeah, pretty wise range of podcasts.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Starting a trend.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

But this one's extra special. So how did we. How do we actually come up with the name hey Jonas? Guys, I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it and, well, we were thinking, I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes, I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that. Guys, listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from, from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Where does your group perform?

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Terri Lomax]

Okay, so, Dr. Joy, this conversation is just getting started, but we want to shift up the energy a little bit. I don't think we had this segment when you came on last time, if I'm not mistaken. So we're going to switch it up a little bit and because we recognize, appreciate and Celebrate the multifaceted woman. And we believe that it's okay to be bougie, classy, and ratchet. You can dance to strip club music and still be elegant. So we want to invite you to the ou Blatchett segment. Do you take on the challenge?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

I accept.

[Terri Lomax]

Okay.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Yay.

[Terri Lomax]

Now that you. You've agreed, we're going to tell you what to expect. So we're going to ask you three questions. We're going to share three sentence completions, and then we have three photos of you pulled up that we found on social media.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Your facial. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[Terri Lomax]

She said, hold up.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Oh, my God.

[Terri Lomax]

Let me set a boundary. Let me set a boundary. So, Dr. Joy, we want you to choose a number out of one and three, and then we'll share that particular photo. And then we want you to describe the photo for folks that are only tuning into the audio, and then give us some context about the photo that we wouldn't know just by looking at it. So we're going to dive on in. We're going to ease into the. Going to ease into this segment. So the first question we have for you, Dr. Joy, is what's the best piece of wisdom or advice you've ever received? Ooh.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

I think the best piece of wisdom I've received was from a business coach, Maya Elliott, I worked with very early in developing therapy for Black Girl, and she shared something about. There's often a message that comes through you that is not for you. And so whenever I am feeling anxious or stuck in my head and like, oh, how are people going to receive this? Should I do this? Should I do that? I pull myself out of it by understanding that there's something, that there's a reason why I'm feeling drawn to delivering some piece of content, some message, and it is typically for somebody else. And so I offer that to people because it's one of my favorite things that anyone has ever told me, and I live by that. Come on.

[Terri Lomax]

My idea with the word. I love that.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Yes.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Okay, now that was all deep and so wise. And this next question is so not that.

[Terri Lomax]

Right.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Okay. We contain multitudes. It's okay.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Exactly. Exactly. Our next question, Dr. Joy, are you going to twerk or two step?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Ooh, that kind of depends on the. The location. So if you know something, if the beat from the 99 and the 2000s drops, then we have entered twerk territory. But if we just, you know, doing a little bit of Frankie Beverly and Maze and, like, that kind of thing, then that requires that you still have. Good answer.

[Terri Lomax]

You got the vibes, Dr. Joy? Dr. Joy passed the vibe check, y'. All. Dr. Joy passed the vibe check. So our last question for this segment, Dr. Joy, is. Get ready for this. Okay. What's the sexiest item you own?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

I have some leopard boots that I pull out every now and then, like, with different outfits, and I feel like they are pretty sexy.

[Terri Lomax]

What kind of boots? What they look like? They booties. Are they high?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

They're booties. They're booties because I got wide pants, and I can't always find boots that go that far, so I typically stick to booty.

[Terri Lomax]

We like it.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Yes. It could give the outfit just that extra that it needs. I. I see what you're doing there. I see the vision. Okay. Okay.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

And so now we're going to move

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

to our sentence completion. Okay, our first sentence is one question or topic I wish people asked me about more often is,

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

ooh, jealousy and friendships.

[Terri Lomax]

Oh, okay, hold up. We about to change the whole episode topic. Just go. That's a good one. Okay. Dr. Joy, you're not going to believe this, but our next sentence completion is what I would tell you all about jealousy and friendship is.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

O.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

What I would tell you all is that jealousy is an emotion just like any other, and there's no need to feel ashamed by it.

[Terri Lomax]

Powerful. Thank you for that word.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Okay, I feel like we need a whole episode on. On that topic alone. But our final sentence completion. What I love most about myself is

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

my intuitiveness. I feel like that has served me very well, both personally and professional.

[Terri Lomax]

Amen to that. Come on. Discernment.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Come on.

[Terri Lomax]

Gut feeling, instinct.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

We appreciate you.

[Terri Lomax]

Okay, so, Dr. Joy, we got these pictures pulled up, and they are cute. Oh, I'm so excited. I wish we could cover them all. I really do. But if you can choose a number out of one and three, maybe we'll show you them all. Choose it about a one in three, and then we'll reveal the photo. If you can describe the photo and then give us some context that we wouldn't know by looking at the photo. What number would you like to choose?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

I'm gonna choose two.

[Terri Lomax]

This is cute. I think you're gonna like it. Let's see. I'm gonna go ahead and put it on the big screen.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Okay.

[Terri Lomax]

So you can see it, Dr. Joy. And just let me know once you can see it.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Oh, this is one of my favorite pictures. I love that. So you ask for context that you wouldn't know by seeing the picture.

[Terri Lomax]

Well, for the People who are listening. If you could just describe the picture first, and then we'll get into, like, some context that we wouldn't know by looking at it.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Got it. So the picture is of myself and Dr. Key Hallman, who is one of my newest, closest friends. And we are doing a conversation for an event that she kind of spearheaded called the Will to Be well here in Atlanta. And it was an opportunity for us to talk about, like, women entrepreneurs and how we can really focus on our wellness.

[Terri Lomax]

Perfect. And then any context about this? Because you look like. I can only imagine what you're talking about right now, but the laugh, the look on your face, like, a genuine laugh. What's the context that we don't know by looking at this?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Oh, I don't even know what we were talking about. But one. The reason why I love this is this. This is how Dr. Key and I often are. Like, she is one of those people that I feel. So in the book, I talk about, like, you have not met all the people who will love you yet. And I feel like she brings that to life for me so much because, like I said, she is, like, my newest close friend. And so this is often how we are, like, very deep belly laughs and, like, just kiki. Ing about whatever. I'm trying to think of any context. I think if I could say something, I think I remember, like, this dress, though. I love the color. This slit was higher than I expected. And I didn't know the stage set up, and so I don't know that I would have worn this dress if I had known. I would have been facing forward to the crowd with a front split.

[Terri Lomax]

Girl, that is a good split.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Is slitting.

[Terri Lomax]

Okay. But you look fly.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Okay. The whole outfit. I love the outfit. Thank you. Thank you.

[Terri Lomax]

Well, thank you for playing along. We have fun with this segment. We're gonna hop back into some questions, and honestly, I feel like I just want to segue right into. Do you have any stories that you can share?

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Or.

[Terri Lomax]

It could be hypothetical. Maybe something from pop culture, A story around jealousy and friendship and how one can cope. And I'm thinking about. Maybe I'm kind of leading. I'm thinking about a perspective or a situation where, like, a friend. Because we hear about this often, Dom and I, where a friend has maybe achieved something that the other friend is also trying to achieve in their life. But how do you, like, grapple with that when it comes to the jealousy or envy within that friendship?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

This is so perfect, and I have the perfect example. And I feel like so Timely, because I just saw this episode of Girlfriends yesterday or the day before, so Girlfriends. And I write about this in the book because y' all know I love pop culture moments. The. The whole experience of Toni from Girlfriends getting engaged before Joan from Girlfriends. And we know, like, Joan's story arc kind of throughout much of that show was, like, her desire to be married with kids. And this happened for her best friend before it happened for her. And so in real life, I think that this also happens, right? Like, this idea that, like, maybe multiple people in the circle desire to be partnered or whatever. And, you know, time wise, it's gonna happen most often for somebody first. And what happens when you also desire this thing and it has not happened for you yet? And so I think in the show we saw, she did not handle that well. She threw herself into kind of, like, training for this marathon. You know, she had a breakup with her own part partner during the shower and had him come up, come to pick up the box of his leftover stuff that was left at our house on the day of Tony's, like, wedding shower. So I often talk about the fact that when we do not deal with things, things will deal with us, and they pop up in all of these ways that are often very disruptive to our relationships and our friendships. And so we saw there was a complete breakdown between Toni and Joan because there was not a space where Joan could actually, like, admit until the wedding day that she was really jealous of the fact that Toni was getting this experience. And I think it's important to, you know, we talk about this all the time, like, being able to hold space for two things to be true at the same time so you can be really happy that your best friend is getting engaged and also really sad that this thing has not happened for you. And I think what often happens is that we try to be like Joan, where we kind of go through the motions and like, oh, yeah, I'll be a beta boner. I'll do these things. But we really are unsettled with the fact that this thing has happened and we don't give voice to it. And so I think it's really important to be able to cultivate space in our friendships to have some of these more prickly conversations. Right? Because this exists, too. And so can you go to your friend and say, hey, I'm really, really happy for you, and I want to be able to show up for you. And I also am having a really hard time because I really want this thing to happen for me too, and I'm sad that it hasn't. Right. So can you offer that as a friend and can you also hear that as a friend? Right. Because I think a lot of us would also get into a space of feeling very defensive of, like, oh, she trying to ruin my wedding, and, you know, all of these things, and that's not the case at all. The truth of the matter is that you can also hold space for this to be true for her. And so how can you all work together to be able to navigate a prickly kind of area in your friendship? And often what happens is that on the other side of navigating this very difficult situation, the relationship is much closer because you've been able to work through this thing that was kind of hard. And so I'd encourage people to just be able to make sense space in your friendships for having some of these more difficult conversations.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Oh, yes. That. That's real. That's real. That what I appreciate about what you shared is that it's about the both and on both sides, because I think that sometimes it's. The onus tends to get put on the person who's feeling. Both. Feeling.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Yeah.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

To navigate it by themselves. And I think it is important for the other person to be able to sit with it and navigate, too. And that. Because that's part of what the sisterhood is, Right?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

And so when we think about the trials and tribulations, the ebbs and flows of friendships, what advice would you have for folks who are trying to come out of these prickly conversations? And maybe the conversation didn't go as well as they hoped it would.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Yeah. I mean that. And that's real. Right. Like, as much as we practice conversations in our head, we know that they don't always turn out, you know, beautifully in real life. But I think that there are opportunities to revisit conversations. Right. So even if we had this conversation on a Tuesday, maybe a month later, we revisit it and say, like, hey, I left with some feelings of not so easy about what we talked about. Right. Like, so I think it is just about kind of giving enough time to, like, continue to visit conversations and to understand. Like, that may not be easy for somebody to hear, so you can't expect that the person will immediately, you know, like, jump into, like, oh, girl, no problem kind of thing. Right. Like, it's okay for you to take some time to be able to kind of digest what was said and to figure out how you all can move forward in your friendship. I also encourage people to think about, like, the Timing of conversations like this, Right. So while there may never be a perfect time, like, the night that she gets engaged is probably not the time. Right. So let people kind of have their moment, you know, and revisit it on some random, like, Thursday lunch date as opposed to, like, the night that she gets engaged. Because I think, of course, you are more likely to get, like, a more positive response if you are not, you know, kind of encroaching on a moment that is very important for her.

[Terri Lomax]

Such a great point. Timing is everything when it comes to those prickly.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

I like that.

[Terri Lomax]

Prickly conversations. And then, Dr. Joyce, speaking of sisterhood, can you talk to us about or can you describe some of your cherished or the cherished characteristics you have in your personal sisterhood? And what are some of the favorite traits about your friends?

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Ooh.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

I think that where the places where I can be, like, the most silly are the places I cherish. Like, I feel like, you know, my work kind of requires me to show up in, like, whole space for other people. And, you know, sometimes that's kind of being silly, but not most of it. And so I really value my sisterhoods where I, like, don't have to kind of be on, where I can just kind of, you know, be listening to Random Rep from New Orleans and, you know, Kiki and about our kids and, like, doing those kinds of things. I really appreciate spaces that allow me to be authentic.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

That authenticity is so important. And so when you think about sisterhood in general, right. And all of the joys that can come from that, what is it about black women specifically and the way we create sisterhood that is so special or magical?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

I think some of we kind of touched on in the beginning. Like, I think because of our history in this world, there is something that connects us just by our lineage. Right. Like, the fact that we are in this conversation together today means that people far down the line have to traverse some tremendous challenges for us to even be here. And so I think there is something energetically and, like, ancestrally that connects us. That can't happen for other people because they don't have this same shared history. But I think that there's just something so powerful about the way black women show up for one another. And it's not even a thought. Like, it.

[Terri Lomax]

It.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

It feels like it is this socialization. And, like, just, you know, maybe watching your mom and your aunties and your grandmas, like, do these things. Like, you know, like, if a sister is struggling with her baby in the airport, like, it is automatic for me to kind of reach into my bag to see if I got some fruit snacks from the kids that I can, like, offer to the baby to kind of, you know, help to kind of take the load off or, you know, if you see a sister, like, in front of you and, like, you know, the. The card is declined in Walmart or something like that, like, oh, can I pay that for you? You know, like, it just feels like we kind of instinctually, a lot of times kind of show up for one another in that way. And I think that so much of that is, like, nothing that you can teach. It is something that you just have to kind of live and kind of continue to pass on. And so, again, you know, that's why I think it was really hard, though. Like, a good process, but a hard process to give language to these things that it feels like, you know, like, how do we know to do these things? I mean, I think there is something really just powerful about the ways we show up for one another.

[Terri Lomax]

That's such a good point. I feel like what amazes me is how you can see people from, you know, the diaspora who are in different locations, but we have.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

It's like, how did we all grow up the same?

[Terri Lomax]

You know, there are those certain instances I think about how my grand. And this is a little random, but I feel like my grandmother used to have that little cookie jar where she would put, like, her sewing stuff in it. But remember those?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Like, the blue tin.

[Terri Lomax]

Yes. I'm like, how did.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

How did we all.

[Terri Lomax]

Or, you know, just different sayings. It's just so interesting how we're just. We just lit. Okay. It's nice over here, being a black woman. I'm just saying, though. So, Dr. Joy, we about to hop all around with this interview, because I am so curious about one. What has happened in your life since 2019, since we last chatted? And I want to know, like, what are you most excited for when it comes to your brand and your impact? Because I know that you're just. It feels like you're just getting started, even though you've achieved so much. So what's happened since 2019? And then what are you most excited for?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Ooh, 2019. I feel like such an interesting time marker because we've had a whole pandemic. Right? Like, it just feels like. And I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Like, the whole world was uprooted. And so it feels very hard, I think, sometimes to even ground myself in time, because that whole, like, two to Three year time span feels so, like, weird. I don't know if I talked about this on the podcast before, but I have two sons and they are now 7 and 10. But at the time they were what, 7 and 4 or 3. And so that meant homeschooling for my husband and I, you know, so, like, trying to do that. And also because we also know how mental health took off in the pandemic, right? So I'm trying to, like, be on a zoom call to do a presentation for some company about, like, how to navigate mental health during the pandemic. And my, you know, seven year old is trying to do math on the computer and I'm trying to, like, manage all of these things. And so, you know, I feel like I am just now getting to a process where I'm kind of setting like, values for me and kind of like, okay, what kinds of things feel important for me to do, both as a professional, but also as a wife and a mom of two boys who are growing very quickly, you know. So I think in terms of what is next for me, I really want to have more in person experiences. So I loved, although I was very tired by the end, but I loved going on tour this past summer for Sisterhood Heels to kind of talk about the book and, you know, have some of these conversations. And I would like to be able to do some version of that in the future now that the book has been in the world. And so I would like to kind of have an opportunity to talk to people now that they've had a chance to read it and like to really kind of workshop and get into the nitty gritty of, like, what happens in black women's relationships. So I think you can be on the lookout for some in real life kinds of experiences. And I also really want to do some retreats because I feel like sisterhood kind of naturally gives its way to, like, okay, can we all go together somewhere and like, have fun and. But also have some very intimate conversations. So I think I'm very excited about moving into that kind of phase of the business of or in real life experiences.

[LabCorp Announcer]

Cervical cancer is one of the most preventable cancers we face today. Yet more than 13,000 women will be diagnosed in 2026, and over 4,000 will lose their lives. Many of these cases happen because screening wasn't done in time. Even with the HPV vaccination, regular screening is still essential. More than half of new cervical cancer cases occur in women who have never or rarely been screaming screened. At LabCorp, we are here to Support those conversations and prevention. Visit our Women's health page on labcorp.com

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14 second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too.

[Terri Lomax]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Liberty.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

We.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts.

[Terri Lomax]

Pretty.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts, but this one's extra special. So how did we. How do we actually come up with the name hey Jonas? Guys, I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it and. Well, we were thinking, I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes, I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that. Guys, listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Yes. Okay, outside.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

We're here for it.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Yes, yes. Retreats. Oh, yeah. All things that will bring the sisterhood together. Yes. Ashley, Blaine Featherson. And so how do you with thinking about all the things that you want to do and what you currently have going on. And so navigating your career, navigating having a husband and, and two sons. How do you make time for sisterhood? Because I know a lot of women are trying to figure out, like, how do I, how do I balance How.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Yeah, I think like, like a lot of people, if it is not on my calendar, it does not happen. So I try to be very intentional about like putting things on my calendar, you know, with some of my closest friends. Like two of my closest friends also graduated from Xavier with me. And so we make it a point to do homecoming every year. They also live in Atlanta and also are the moms of sons. And so we kind of get together, you know, pretty frequently to kind of do sports stuff with the kids. We had a Super bowl party, you know, so we try to like, put it on our calendars to kind of make it a point to be intentional about spending time with one another. But I also love like random catch ups. Like Dr. Key, who I talked about and was in that picture earlier, travels quite a bit for her work. But every now and then, like she will be in town for a random Friday, we'll go get tacos, you know. So I love those kind of random happenstance kinds of things too. But I think again, because many of us are so busy, it is really important to make sure that you are putting things on your calendar months ahead of time, even years ahead of time, so that you are protecting that time with your girls.

[Terri Lomax]

Amen to that. And I'm with you. If it's not on the calendar, it ain't going to happen. It doesn't exist. Like, we gotta, yes, put stuff on the calendar. Now we have many of our listeners who have said that, you know, these podcasts, right, that we have or just podcasts out there for black women, that's kind of their connection to sisterhood because of where they might live or the dynamics in their environment. Do you have any advice for women who are looking to build that sisterhood, like, coalition in their lives? Like, any insight on what they can do to establish that?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Yeah, so I mean, we talked about digital spaces a little earlier and some of the, you know, difficulties of existing, but I think they can also be some incredibly beautiful and powerful spaces. You know, like lots of people have met very important and significant people to them and they've not ever actually met in person. They've only ever connected digitally. And so I think it's important not to kind of move quickly past like the benefit of digital spaces. So we have our sister circle community and therapy for black girls. I know lots of other podcasts and organizations have some, like, membership community where you can actually connect with other sisters across the world. So I think looking into those options, if it is difficult for you in real life. But I think for a lot of people who don't necessarily live in places where, like, there are not a lot of black women, I think for a lot of us, we can just look in the background of our lives, because I think for a lot of us, there are people in our lives that we maybe kind of casually see. So, like, the mom who is. You see all the time in carpool or another sister that you see in Pilates class, right? Like, y' all may exchange small pleasantries, but it kind of stops there. Is there an opportunity for you to take those relationships a little further? So could you say, like, hey, would you like to grab a smoothie after Pilates? Or something like that, just to see if there is a continuing connection that can be made there? Now, I like to tell people, you got to be realistic with your expectation, right? Because this might be a new best friend, or it might have just been a great smoothie and y' all had a good kiki, right? And so don't go into it thinking, like, okay, this is going to be my new best friend forever, because then you get really wonky, I think, in terms of, like, being really stressed out and putting too much on it, but just naturally getting to know people to see if there is a connection beyond, you know, just seeing them in the carpool line. And so with a little bit of effort, some of the people in the background of our lives could maybe move to the foreground. But we got to be willing to face rejection, which I think is difficult for a lot of us, right? Like the idea that this person might not be interested in grabbing a smoothie or we go for the smoothie, and I don't really like her. You know, like, you got to be willing to kind of put yourself out there because that's the only way that you're going to be able to make some of these new connections.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

I appreciate those tips because I think when I look at the last few years and with everybody being inside and not necessarily really having the opportunity to connect in real life with other people, I think it is hard. And even those of us who came up before the digital age, it can still be hard for us to initiate that. Let's. Let's go grab that smoothie after Pilates class. And so when you Think about the people who might experience rejection, right? Or maybe they have a friendship that is now evolving and is not benefiting either person anymore. What tips would you have for them to kind of move forward, to heal, to grieve the ending of a friendship?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Listen, this, this is a whole different spinoff episode because I think unfortunately so many of us have found ourselves here, right? Like the, the friendship, the ending of a friendship, the dissolution of a friendship that was once maybe very meaningful to you. And I think the part that people, people often miss here is actually giving themselves time to grieve, right? And I think society gives us a lot of messages about like, friendships that I think are not accurate or don't actually give credence to how important they are. And so when we think about like the end of a friendship, what happens is that you are often experiencing what we call disenfranchised grief, right? So disenfranchised grief is Greek. That is, it doesn't have the same, like, socializations and rituals related to other losses, right? So we know for like the loss of a person, there's a funeral, there's a repast, like, there's all these sitting with you and like those kinds of things. But there are other losses in our lives that people just kind of want to push over that then make us disconnected from the grieving experience. And the ending of a friendship is one of those, one of those experiences. And so I think it is important when there is an ending that you give yourself time to grieve and understand. Like, this is a significant loss likely because this person meant a lot to you and there are whole pieces of your world now that no longer exists because you are no longer in community with this person. And so I think the first step is really giving yourself the time and space to grieve this loss and to surround yourself with people who are going to take that loss seriously. Because sometimes people will say, like, oh, you got plenty of friends, like it's no big deal, or oh, I never liked her anyway, like, you better off without her. Like people think. I think people think that those kinds of things, like, are well intentioned and like, that's going to help you. But what it all, all it really does is make you feel worse. And like now you don't even have anybody to talk to about this thing that is really hurtful to you. So I think it's important to find people, whether that is other people in your circle or a therapist or some kind of community where you can talk about how important this person was. To you and how sad you are about the fact that this is ending. And I also think that it's important to know that sometimes friendships do end, right? And it doesn't always have to be this like, ugly thing that happens, right? Like, we know betrayals happen, of course, but sometimes, like relationships just run their course and you find yourself in two, two different trajectories and like it just doesn't make sense anymore. And it's okay to kind of let each other go with love. Like, it doesn't have to be this like weird, difficult, painful kind of conversation, though it may still be sad, but it doesn't have to be a big deal if a friendship has to end. But I think you do need to give yourself the time and space to grieve.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

That is so important. I thank you for acknowledging that and what that can look like. And I have a follow up question because I know it's going to come up. So lots of us are in friendship circles, right?

[Terri Lomax]

So there's.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

It's a group of us. And what happens is two people in the circle have decided to no longer be friends. How would you suggest everyone else in the circle kind of engage with that because maybe they still want to be friends with the two individuals that don't connect anymore.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

I love that Terry had to take a sip of water on this question because the girls are fighting, as they say, right? But I think that this is very real for those of us who do have circles that we know. Again, because we are human. We're not actually robots. We are human. Things happen and people decide they don't want to be in relationship with one another. And I think this is again, a place where we have to have some of those difficult conversations and have very clear ideas about boundary setting. So if there are some people in their circle that. And I think it's fair. I don't think it's good to pick sides, right? Like, because even though there's a circle of you, you likely also have individual relationships. And so if everybody else in the circle still wants to be friends with, with friend A, even though friend C doesn't want to be friends with her anymore, I think that that's totally fine. But I think the other people in the circle have to be very fair about like, not trying to like, force friend A to come back over if friend C is going to be there and to have conversations with them separately about, like, how do you all want to handle this? You know, and it may be, it may make things kind of difficult for a while, right? Because then we can't all go to that happy hour. Maybe now we got to do two different versions of a happy hour. So the whole system will have to adjust. But I think, you know, as people who love one another in a friendship, I think that you can have some conversations where everybody still feels like they are getting their needs met, even if it may be a little difficult for a while.

[Terri Lomax]

That's great advice. And I had to. You, right? I had to take a sip of water on that one. So I was like, that is so true. It happens, right? And I'm glad you touched on choosing sides. I was going to ask you about what is your perspective on that? Because people do that. And then it's like, dang, I really like this person and connect with them. But now, because the friend group was like, we not fooling with C. Now you can't. So thank you for covering that, Dr. Joy. Now, we said earlier that Glamour magazine has named you as a game changer for your work in providing black women with the resources to improve their mental health. What would you say that you've learned about yourself as you've grown in your business? Your impact and your reach?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Ooh, I feel like I have learned so much. Well, one, I, in writing the book, I did not realize how much of a perfectionist I was until I was in the book writing process. And so therapy has been incredible for me to kind of like help to release some of those expectations and ideas about, like, what kinds of things make sense and like, what kind of offering is actually valuable. So I never thought I spent so much of my therapy time during the book writing process talking about the book writing process because of course it's a metaphor for like all these other things in your life that just didn't have an avenue to come out. So that was an incredibly eye opening experience and all the conversations I had in therapy. I also have learned, like, kind of, I would say, how to be an entrepreneur. Like, I never set out to kind of build what has happened. And while it has been like, I would say, mostly a fun adventure, it's also been really hard, you know, because my vision for like what my life would be kind of like probably 10 years ago ago was that I would have a cute little private practice somewhere, you know, seeing a couple of clients and then doing the mom and wife thing. And now I have this whole like, team of 12 people and, you know, doing all this traveling and all these things. And it just never is what I would have built or what I, you know, would have desired. For my life, but it is what has happened. And so I feel like I've also kind of learned how to be an entrepreneur, but also really want to do business in a way that isn't like, all the businesses I've been in, you know? So I feel like I'm trying to, like, establish this rhythm of, you know, like, managing people and, like, establishing a culture where people, like, want to show up to do good work. Because it's really important for me that we do good work because we are in service of black women and girls. And so developing a company culture where people kind of feel validated and seen. And even if we have to have difficult conversations, like, we can do that with love, you know? So I feel like I've also learned, like, how to be an entrepreneur that, like, develops my own kind of thing, which has been really cool. Oh, yes.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

I love that. And I appreciate what you're sharing, because Terri and I talk often behind the scenes in. In our business of, like, how we can create culture, a work culture that is different from what we have seen before. And so when you think about all that you have learned in your journey so far and what you're trying to build and create, what would you suggest for women who are in spaces where it's not what they want, it's not what they desire, they don't feel seen or heard or valued. What would you suggest for them in navigating that type of situation in the work environment?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Yeah, you know, so unfortunately, we. We will find ourselves in those kinds of spaces sometimes. And because of this whole capitalist society that we live in, like, we know we gotta work to kind of keep a roof over our head and, like, do all of those things. But I also think it's important to kind of minimize as much as you can, like, the impact that work has on the rest of your life. And I think sometimes that is out of balance for us because we spend so many hours, like, in the office or doing some kind of work stuff that it begins to kind of take over our whole lives. But, you know, Toni Morrison has this beautiful quote around about, you are not the work that you do. You are you. And so I think it's important to kind of have some kind of balance between, like, showing up and kind of doing what you need to do to keep your check coming every month, but also cultivating these other spaces in your life where you really feel affirmed and valued. And if that cannot happen in work, how can you put more of your energy and time into making sure that that's happening in other places in your life.

[Terri Lomax]

Yes, yes, and yes. That is such great insight. And Dr. Joy, as we, you know, come to a close with this conversation, we just want to talk a bit about legacy and impact. And when you think about your legacy, your impact, and let's just like fast forward, we're going to like think big picture fast forward down the line. Like, your descendants are consuming your content. They're reading your book, they're tuning into the podcast. What are some of the things you want them to know and remember about who you are, who you were, what you stood for in life?

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Ashley Blaine Featherson, what a beautiful question. I feel like the thing I want, you know, my kids and my grandkids and whoever else is, you know, coming after me to really remember is like the importance of sharing your story and kind of like sharing your thoughts and your ideas because they are important not only for you to say, but because they also unlock something for other people. And I feel like, again, going back to that early story that you talked about, like interviewing me and then interviewing Rachel, like, there is, I don't think, any coincidence. It is all about connectedness. And so I hope that they will kind of take the examples of things that I've shared and also feel empowered to share their own stories and to be of service to the community.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Oh, yes. Well, Dr. Joy, as always, it has been a pleasure. We have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and wish we could sit in conversation with you for hours.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Like this is just.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Yes, it's what we needed. It's the sisterhood that we needed. And so for our listeners out there who now, if they weren't before, they know now who you are. Tell them how they can find you and how they can connect with you, how they can join the sister circle and where can get your book.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Yes, thank you so much. It has been such a pleasure. I love talking with you all. Thank you again for having me. You can find me all across the socials at hello, Dr. Joy. So Twitter, Instagram, little bit of TikTok, I am ellodoctorjoy and all of those places. You can find all things Sisterhood heals@sisterhood heels.com so you can go there to order a copy of the book. But also please patronize your local bookstores and indie bookstores to get a copy copy of Sisterhood Heals. And then everything therapy for Black Girls related you can find at therapy for black girls.com so you'll find our therapist directory there. If you're interested in connecting with a therapist in your area if you're interested in joining the Sister Circle or if you are interested in listening to the podcast, you can find all of that again at therapy for black girls.com thank

[Terri Lomax]

you so much Dr. Joy.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

Thank you.

[Dr. Dominique Broussard]

Hey lady, it's Dr. Dom here from the Cultivating Her Space podcast. Are you currently a resident of the State of California and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so, please reach out to [e-mail] that's D R D O M I N I Q U E B R O U S s a r d.com to schedule a free 15 minute consultation. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for joining us today. Please note that our show may contain conversations about self help advice, self empowerment and mental health, but is by no means meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal relationship with a trained mental health provider. If you or someone you know is in need of mental health care, please visit the Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology Today or contact your insurance provider.

[Terri Lomax]

If you liked what you heard and want to keep the conversation going, visit our [e-mail] and be sure to click the Patreon tab to get access to video content, bonuses and our weekly after show. And before we meet again, repeat after me. My thoughts create my reality. Today I choose thoughts that empower and uplift me.