Anger Was A Symptom

Summary

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Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories

Episode: "Anger Was A Symptom"

Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: Ron Camacho, Police Chief, North Charleston, SC (Retired York, PA)
Date: May 24, 2026

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Overview

This episode dives into the impact of unresolved childhood trauma and cumulative police work stress, as candidly told by Chief Ron Camacho. With host John J. Wiley (retired Baltimore Police Sergeant), they dissect the evolution of trauma-induced anger, its destructive consequences on leadership and personal life, and the vital, ongoing recovery process. The overarching message centers on acknowledging vulnerability, seeking help, making amends, and breaking the cycle of self-destruction—a human interest true crime conversation straight from those who’ve lived it.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ron Camacho’s Background and Policing Career

• Small Town, Big Problems: Chief Ron details his service in York, PA—contrary to perceptions of small-town quiet, York was a hub for drug and violent crime due to its location between major cities ([03:29]).
• Career Path: Ron served from 1995 to 2013, then worked as a police advisor in Afghanistan, which he describes as less stressful than his stateside responsibilities ([04:01], [04:15]).

2. Stress, Retirement, and Life Expectancy in Law Enforcement

• High Stakes, Short Lives: Discussion on the lower life expectancy for police officers compared to the general population ([05:32]), and the importance of planning for life after policing ([06:05]).
• Retirement Realities: Sudden loss of role and support leads to self-destruction for many officers ([04:33], [06:46]).

3. Leadership Lessons: Climbing The Ranks and Conflict

• Rising Fast: Promoted to Detective Lieutenant after just 11 years, Ron found himself supervising veteran officers, often those resistant to change ([15:31]).
• Anger as Leadership Flaw: Ron admits leadership became equated with anger—a manifestation of his own unresolved trauma and low self-esteem ([13:12], [15:31]).
• Ego & Conflict: He describes being driven by a need to prove himself, especially after being told he’d never “make rank” because he wasn’t part of the department’s family legacy ([18:11]).

4. The Impact of Trauma: Personal and Professional

• Childhood Roots: Ron connects his overwhelming anger to early experiences—“not being good enough,” constantly seeking approval ([15:31]).
• On the Job: He acknowledges taking things personally in disciplinary roles, feeling betrayed, and becoming a “tyrant” ([23:58], [25:25]).
  • Quote: “I was almost had this sick pleasure in breaking people down in my office… but that’s how intense I was. That was ego and anger talking.” — Ron Camacho [25:25]

5. Making Amends & Recovery

• Acknowledging Harm: Ron discusses the embarrassment and humility of making apologies to those he previously wronged ([25:25], [27:32]).
  • Quote: “I’ve apologized to many, many people… because that’s not who I was deep inside. That was a facade.” — Ron Camacho [25:25]
• What Amends Means: Changing behaviors, not just apologizing (“Amends means changing your behavior. That’s the most important thing.” — John J. Wiley [26:48])
• Personal Growth: Recognition that recovery isn’t linear, and it demands ongoing effort ([26:48]).

6. Therapy, Breaking the Cycle, and Finding Peace

• Intervention: Marriage counseling transitioned into intensive personal therapy after his anger dominated his life and marriage ([36:56]).
  • Notable Moment: “The therapist was like, I can’t work on your marriage. I’ve got to work on this guy here.” — Ron Camacho [36:56]
• Turning Point: Ron owns up to an affair, his accountability, and emphasizes therapy’s role in leading him finally to peace at age 44 ([38:11], [40:11]).
• Ongoing Stigma: Despite progress, seeking therapy still carries stigma in law enforcement ([40:41]).
• Teaching and Leading: Ron created and taught a department-wide class on ego and routinely shares his experience to break the stigma and help others ([41:09]).
  • Quote: “It’s about seeing the next generation get better and better… when we have those conversations or I see that improvement, that’s the world for me.” — Ron Camacho [41:09]

7. Wisdom, Purpose, and Looking Back

• Service to Others: Ron emphasizes consistently putting others first has deeply enriched his life ([42:32]).
  • Quote: “The day that I put others before myself, I received so many blessings from so many different places. It’s just ridiculous.” — Ron Camacho [42:32]
• Reflecting on Change: Looking back, he recognizes different “versions” of himself; he’s grateful for growth born of hardship ([43:40]).

8. Current Work & Book

• Consulting & Teaching: Ron runs Camacho Consulting, teaching leadership and security, and is writing a book titled Bringing Ego to the Forefront, offering practical techniques for personal development ([44:27]).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with timestamps)

• “I was only responsible for myself and no longer responsible for anybody else when I went to Afghanistan. Yeah, war zone and no stress whatsoever.” — Ron Camacho [04:23]
• “What I found was I really wasn't equipped to deal with the stress … I stuffed everything down.” — Ron Camacho [14:11]
• “My problems really started … when I was promoted to lieutenant … I had to go in there super, super serious. And part of that seriousness was anger.” — Ron Camacho [15:31]
• “That wasn’t who I was deep inside. That was a facade, and that was ego and anger talking.” — Ron Camacho [25:25]
• “The therapist was like, ‘I can’t work on your marriage. I gotta work on this guy here.’” — Ron Camacho [36:56]
• “At 44 years old, probably for the first time in my adult life, I felt peace.” — Ron Camacho [40:11]
• “Ego stands for easing God out. It's putting me front and center.” — John J. Wiley [42:20]
• “The day that I put others before myself, I received so many blessings from so many different places. … My wife will even say it. … Something will come out of nowhere.” — Ron Camacho [42:32]
• “You sound like you'd be a pretty good boss to work for.” — John J. Wiley [44:19]

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Timestamps by Major Segment

• Introduction & Background: [00:46]-[05:32]
• Policing Stress & Life Expectancy: [05:32]-[07:39]
• Career Progression, Department Conflicts: [12:26]-[20:14]
• The Onset of Anger, Coping Mechanisms: [13:12]-[17:44]
• Leadership, Ego, and Discipline: [18:11]-[27:32]
• Making Amends & Growth: [25:25]-[28:22]
• Therapy, Breakdown, Finding Peace: [36:56]-[40:11]
• Teaching Ego, Helping Others: [41:09]-[43:32]
• Reflection, Consulting, and Book: [43:40]-[45:33]

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Takeaways

• Trauma and anger are often symptoms—not the root. Ron credits therapy, accountability, and support for helping him heal deep-seated wounds.
• Recovery and growth are ongoing and non-linear. Admitting fault, asking for help, and making genuine amends are vital.
• Police culture must actively embrace mental health support. Courage to be vulnerable is essential at every rank.
• Service to others becomes transformative. Leadership rooted in humility, empathy, and lived experience makes a lasting organizational and personal difference.

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For more on Chief Ron Camacho:
Visit CamachoConsulting.net
Look out for his upcoming book, Bringing Ego to the Forefront.

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Transcript

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[John J. Wiley]

currently a police chief. He's retired from a police department in Pennsylvania and he found out that trauma from his childhood combined with trauma of police work resulted in severe anger issues. He's here to talk about that, his resolution and recovery welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. In the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show, we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, their realities of investigating crimes, plus those who have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crime share their stories. Hunters hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website letradio.com and also like us on Facebook. Search for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. There's a couple ways you can stay in touch and keep informed of what's going on with the Law enforcement talk radio show. 1. Go to our website letradio.com Sign up for our email newsletter. It's really easy to find. I promise we won't spam you. I sent out about one email every two weeks or so and there's also a feature called Broadcast Channels on our Facebook page where we send messages directly to your inbox, directly to your messenger. Real easy to sign up for. Make sure you like or follow the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show Facebook page. And up top you'll see Broadcast channels one for free podcast versions of the radio show. Another one top post of the day so you too can stay informed quickly, easily and best of all, like always free. Joining us on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show we have Ron Camacho on the show. He is a police chief in is it North Charleston, South Carolina? There's too many north and south in there.

[Ron Camacho]

Ron, thank you. Thank you for having me.

[John J. Wiley]

By the way, Ron is retired from New York City Police Power Raid In Pennsylvania, York, Pennsylvania, his website, if you want to get more details about him, what he does. Camacho consulting.net Camacho consulting.net and if you want more information about being a police officer in South Carolina, guys to listen to. Ron, thanks for your service, number one. And number two, thanks for being a guest on the law enforcement talk radio show and talk about it. Very much appreciated.

[Ron Camacho]

Thank you again. Thank you for having me on.

[John J. Wiley]

It's good to have you on. And by the way, I remember because York, Pennsylvania was not too far from where I used to live. I used to live in Freeland, Maryland and off of I83. And back then, I always want to say compared to Baltimore, at least I thought York was a sleepy little town and there was nothing bad happening there. I really fetched up sharply that bad stuff happens there just like it happens everywhere.

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah, we were a tough little place there, population about 40,000. I guess it's jumped up to about 44,000 now, about 40 minutes north of Baltimore. But we were a transit place for New York drug dealers, drug dealers coming in from Philadelphia and people from Baltimore coming up fighting with the locals there over drug spots. And we were pretty violent when I started my career in 1995.

[John J. Wiley]

So you started in 95. When did you retire from there?

[Ron Camacho]

I retired there in 2013. I bought military time and retired two years early. I got my pension and I went to Afghanistan. Believe it or not, as a police advisor, my stress level went away immediately.

[John J. Wiley]

Isn't it funny how you go from York, Pennsylvania to Afghanistan and your stress level decreases incredibly?

[Ron Camacho]

Because I was only responsible for myself and no longer responsible for anybody else when I went to Afghanistan. Yeah, war zone and no stress whatsoever.

[John J. Wiley]

It doesn't seem like it makes sense, but by the way, I tell people this all the time. For me, the problems with policing didn't really start when I was on a job. It started when things got quiet when I retired and I didn't have a suitable replacement for it because I knew what to do with my job. And the more trauma and drama and fear and excitement and life threatening stuff going on, the better. I did is when things got really quiet and boring that I really started to self destruct.

[Ron Camacho]

You know, right now I'm having the time of my life here in my new department. I've been here for about a year and a half. I love it. Department of 320 officers, 400 total with the civilians. And I can't see myself retiring anytime soon. But I've done many different things to, to address My trauma. So I'm a different person. I'm in a different head space. And I can't see myself retiring. I think if I retired, I drop dead within a month.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, part of the problem for me, and by the way, Baltimore was not. You talked about this earlier. Baltimore is not far from New York. I remember being in the academy, and I started in 1980, retired in 92, got hurt and retired. But we had a major at the time talk about the average life expectancy for a Baltimore police officer then in 1980, was 52. They usually live two years after retiring. Now, the average life expectancy for American police officers, male police officers, don't quote me on this, but I believe I saw is 58, while the average life expectancy for American men is 73.

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah, it's crazy. And I'm always talking to my troops when they're getting ready to retire. I believe in talking to them about life after policing, and I heavily invest in them as far as what they want to do. What do you want to do after retirement? Do you want to stay in the profession? I will help you. And if you want to get out and do business, I have connections in that world to help you do that, too. So I'm always telling them, don't start thinking about retirement two years out. We got to start developing you. We got to start planning that years before. And they appreciate that I'm having those conversations with them way before, you know, that retirement date comes.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, when the timer comes. And by the way, that's when you expect to retire when you get hurt and retired young. Look, and I said there was a lot of positives about that, but my pay got cut to roughly 66% of what I was making before, and my health insurance tripled immediately on the spot. So it's not like I could afford to live the fine and fancy life.

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah, that's super unfortunate. And nowadays there are supplemental insurances out there and there are other different nonprofits that are there to help officers out when that occurs. So life has changed a lot from when we were young rookies or when you were a young officer that we've noticed and trying to take care of officers when, you know, trying to make up for the mistakes that happened when we were young officers.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, looking at his job now is different being a police chief than it was being a sergeant. And by the way, that's why I retired it. And I love being a sergeant. It was great. But there was a different job responsibility as a police officer and a sergeant. Totally different. There's got to be a totally different responsibility and area of coverage for police chiefs.

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah. You know, I used to think that the sergeant was the most important job in any sort of police department. That's how much power and responsibility they had. But once I was around certain chiefs and knew how they can drive a department, whether that was in the positive or negative way, I changed my mind. And I knew that it was, number one, a chief, number two, a sergeant, and then a field training officer. You know, everybody in between, they had their little say. But a chief can really drive a department into the ground or they, a good chief can rise it up, you know, in spite of many different things.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, you got to have broad shoulders and be prepared to take a lot of abuse. You're going to take a lot of criticism in that job.

[Ron Camacho]

I was just as a chief.

[John J. Wiley]

As a chief, yeah.

[Ron Camacho]

I was just in the newspaper just this Saturday, had an op ed against me because somebody leaked a memo that I a memo about me referencing me following a policy that they didn't agree with. So it is. You know, I've got rhino skin, but that rhino skin was developed working the streets, working cases when I was a detective and just doing regular police work. You know, you develop that skin, dude,

[John J. Wiley]

you got to learn. And I hate to cut you off, but you learn that. By the way, people say, I want Facebook page, in particular, the law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page. They'll say, well, that person shouldn't be allowed here. I'm like, I want to say so badly, if you were police, you were used to being called names, and it's not a big deal.

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah, my wife, she amazes. She's amazed at my ability to bounce back. You know, you have a bad day, you know, the world seems like it's crumbling. You know, I go home, I pet my dog, take him for a walk, talk to my wife. The next day, Boom. Ready, reset, ready to go.

[John J. Wiley]

That's the instructions on the back of the shampoo bottle. We're talking with Ron Camacho. He's the current police chief in North Charleston, South Carolina. He is retired from York City Police Department in Pennsylv. We're going to talk about his childhood trauma. He went through combat with trauma of police work and how that affected him and how he has gotten beyond that. This is law enforcement talk radio show. Oh, by the way, you want to get more information about him, go to his website, Camacho Consulting.net his law enforcement talk radio show. We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back. Of all the radio stations in the United States, there are no other shows like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and on Facebook, there's only one official page. Do a search on Facebook for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and be sure to like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show Facebook page

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[John J. Wiley]

Return to conversation with Ron Camacho on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio. Ron is the police chief for North Charleston, South Carolina. I know there's a lot of north and south in there, but he is a retired York, Pennsylvania police officer and he is his website if you want to get more details about what he does. Camacho consulting.net, this Camacho consulting.net I got to say this Ron. When it comes to police names, Ron Camacho is pretty high there.

[Ron Camacho]

Unless it gets butchered, which it does often.

[John J. Wiley]

Sure. One of the things that we knew this is one thing I ask a lot of my guests who are police is one thing you knew you robbed in police work when you earned a nickname from the community, especially the bad guys. Did you have a Nickname.

[Ron Camacho]

My nickname was Kamach. That's. That's what I got called. And that was mainly from the officers. I really didn't have a nickname from the community. You know, I was a pretty square guy when I was a detective, so I never gained that great nickname. Always wanted one.

[John J. Wiley]

Kidding.

[Ron Camacho]

Always was a little jealous. Yeah, a little jealous of the.

[John J. Wiley]

Mine were the narcs Bigfoot because I Wore a size 13 foot shoe. Deep Throat is my voice. And the other one was Big Head because I have a really big noggin. That's quite a right. And by the way, other places they called me those names left and right. More so than the bad guys. But some of the bad guys did as well because my name is not that difficult. But other ones. So let's talk about your career. One thing I noticed about policing, and this is something the old times have told me, it's going to really aggravate you and drag out the worst part of you if you let it. Did you find that to be a case of you?

[Ron Camacho]

What I found was I really wasn't equipped to deal with the stress. I didn't know how to deal with stress. And that had to do with what I experienced as a child and just not having the tools to know how to adequately deal with stress. I stuffed everything down. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I never did a drug in my life. And I remember going to the dentist once and the dentist saying, what are you doing, man? You're grinding your teeth, man. What the. And he was just shocked at how badly I was grinding my teeth. He said I was the worst case ever of somebody grinding their teeth. And that was way back in like 1996. 97. And I've been wearing a mouth guard ever since, you know, so it's stuffing stuff in and that's the way I was doing stuff, which is not the correct way to deal with stress.

[John J. Wiley]

One of the things I was taught, and this is a great saying, is that when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail. And that's the way my life became after policing for a long time. It isn't that way today, but there are some times where I will not willingly, not consciously make a decision where I'll get rather tools and the only tool I have is a hammer. But I can understand that stress and this is my response to it.

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah, 100%. So I was a pretty straightforward person. And some of this was, you know, I always felt my self esteem was in the gutter. You know, and part of that was always trying to prove to my father that, you know, get that approvement, get that approval from him. So I rose up the ranks very quickly. And I think my problems really, really started when at 11 years I was promoted to lieutenant and I was put in charge of the detective division. And now here I am, 11 years on the job and thrust it into the world of supervising people that I was just working with not too long ago. Here I am supervising my boss from a couple years ago who has 30 years on the job, a couple other, you know, longtime 20, 28 year, 25 year guys. And I was told to get them in line, right. And what's ironic when you look back is there were, there were many lieutenants before me who didn't, weren't given that mission or who had run through there and did not do what I was tasked to do. Or maybe they were told and didn't do it. But you know, I took it serious and I felt like I had to go in there super, super serious. And part of that seriousness was anger, you know, get, get them to do what I wanted to do. It's my way or the highway. You're not going to violate this, you're going to take this serious. I'm saying this, you're going to follow my, my rules. So a lot of that came with, with anger, especially when they violated my, my rules or violated the policy, you know, and I pulled in and it's, you know, for most people, 11 years is pretty young in a policing career to reach that level. I had like 20, 20 detectives there and we're a very busy place as you noted. You know, it wasn't like it was mayber violent place, you know, 24 population of 40,000 people at a time, averaging anywhere from 15 to 20 homicides a year, not including all the shootings and robberies. We were a busy place and that, that responsibility fell on my shoulders to solve crime, make my people solve crime. And let's be honest, part of that

[John J. Wiley]

is trying to get the old salty guys. I say guys, that's men and women, it's not gender specific to do their job. Sometimes they're the worst.

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah. So one particular, my boss at the time, when I was a detective, he told me, because I was from outside, I grew up originally in New Jersey. And you could tell you're not from

[John J. Wiley]

Pennsylvania, you've got a different accent.

[Ron Camacho]

Right. I grew up from there and when I worked as a detective, you know, here I am, the non drinker, non smoker and A lot of those guys partied, but a lot of those guys, their fathers were from, played softball together and their fathers were all from the department. So it was a large history there. And I didn't hold that against them. But my boss at the time told me, you'll never get my rank, you'll never become, you know, get my position. You're not family. And that lit a fire under me on top of all the other that I had pushing me to prove that I was something that self esteem issues. And I remembered that. So here I came back a couple years later and I said, okay, now we're going to do it my way. And you know, probably within eight months he retired. You know, they were, there were guys that were working drugs for 20 years, they were working burglaries, you know, there were guys that were out on task forces, they were working out of the building. Now I got results. Those guys retired, left. You know, some of them got moved to different areas and, and many did retire. When I put Youngblood in there, they were successful and they, they got the job done. But a lot of that caused, you know, issues with me, that conflict which, you know,

[John J. Wiley]

one of the things that we got a little bit of time left for you to break. One of the things when I got promoted to sergeant and they moved you to different cities. So it's. But a lot of what you talked about was in different parts of the city. So a lot of what you talked about the same people you didn't encounter. I went from Northwest District to Baltimore to Central District. But one of the things that I thought was I wanted a squad of guys like me. I wanted a bunch of go getters, a bunch of proactive police. I wanted them to do the job. And then I realized it took a little while. I needed the report takers I needed. I would be writing non stop if I had a crew like me, right.

[Ron Camacho]

So here in this instance, you know, I had all sorts. The thing that I guess worked with me and added that stress was the conflict, you know, the conflict. And it was like almost every day when I first got up there. The conflict of reeling people in that were not used to supervision, you know. Yeah, it was very difficult.

[John J. Wiley]

They thought they had the retirement job. We're talking about Ron Camacho, he's the current police chief in South Carolina. Him a few moments. He's retired from York, Pennsylvania Police department. And we're talking about trauma they went through and how anger became an issue. His website, if you want to get more details about him, is Camacho Consulting.net this is Camacho Consulting.net this Is Law Enforcement talk radio show don't go anywhere. I promise you. We'll be right back. Are you a fan of True Crime Joe's how about True crime with a twist? People that actually investigated crimes, what they did, what they experienced, all for free. Just go to our website radio.com it's Elvis Lincoln, ease and Edward teasing Tom radio.com

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[John J. Wiley]

Return conversation with Ron Camacho on a law enforcement talk radio show. Ron is police chief in South Carolina, North Charleston, South Carolina. He's retired from York, Pennsylvania, Police Department. And he is, let's just say anger became a real issue from trauma during his police career and trauma from his childhood and trauma from policing as well. His website is Camacho Consulting.net Camacho Consulting.net I gotta ask you this question because we talked a little beforehand. The anger became a real issue. And you use the words, he became a tyrant as a boss. Here's part of the problem. Anger is a great tool for me, but what it does is it pushes people away. And it pushes people away I depend on the most. And then I feel abandoned. And guess what? I get angrier.

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah, that wasn't for me. I had my crew that the Go Getters, and they were on Team Camacho. That wasn't an issue. The issue was me taking stuff personal for those that violated the rules. And as you know, this is a business and should be treated as a business in a lot of ways. And we should remove emotions from that. But I did not remove emotions for that. And eventually, when I became a captain, I was in charge of discipline. You know, I was getting angry for guys missing court. You know, I took it personal. How dare you miss court?

[John J. Wiley]

It has nothing to do with you at the time, but you couldn't help but take it. They're disrespecting you.

[Ron Camacho]

Right, Exactly. And, you know, God forbid, if you, if you were even on close to, if I thought you were even close to, you know, being a little lying just a little bit or fibbing or fooling around with the truth. You know, you were gonna come into my office and I was gonna make you pay. I was gonna get tears from you. And I say that now, and I'm embarrassed to say that, but it was the truth. You know, I was almost had this sick pleasure in breaking people down in my office, questioning their integrity and making them, you know, confess to me like I would, you know, a suspect, you know, but that's how intense I was. And that's how that anger, you know, and that ego. More. More that ego. How dare you, right? Do this to me. You're not. You're not gonna lie to me. You know who I am. You know, and like I said, I'm embarrassed about that now tremendously. And I've made a lot of amends. I've. You know, a lot of times when I've run into people from my old department, I've apologized to many, many people. When I've gone back, or I' run into some people from my old department, you know, with much humility, because that's not who I was deep inside. That was a facade, and that was ego and anger talking. I got on top of that.

[John J. Wiley]

I'm glad you brought up the amends part. And we'll talk about the procedure, how you got from point A to point B, because that's a long trip, and it's not linear. Doesn't go in a straight line. There's back and forth and one step forward, two steps back, the whole nine yards. At least that's the case for me. But when you talk about the recovery process, you use the word amends. And for me, what I was taught was amends means. It doesn't mean saying you're sorry. It means changing your behavior. That's the most important thing. I'm not going to do that anymore after a while. And the old joke was, you tell your wife, I'm sorry, I'm not going to do that again. You do it the next day. You're right, you are sorry. But when you stop doing that, that's making amends. What you say to that person is

[Ron Camacho]

the second part of it, 100%. And I have changed my life. And what's unfortunate is when I made those changes in my life and when I started making those changes, I wasn't in the department that long. You know, it was there maybe, you know, a month or two when I started that transformation, and then I retired, and then I went to Afghanistan. So they never really got to see that full transformation. Some of them experienced it as they've met me, you know, and have run into me, and I've been able to help them. You know, I've helped many people from that department that who we were in conflict with. And I've helped quite a few people, you know, in the department. I've had a great career. I'm still having a great career. I've had many contacts across the United States. And I love helping police officers. I love helping my officers, officers from all over the place.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, I love police. But I always say this, sometimes they can be their own worst enemies.

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah, yeah. You're absolutely.

[John J. Wiley]

Especially with that thing that we called a mouth. I mean, sometimes I'm betting on you a little bit, but sometimes. This is my own personal story. I wasn't that good at being bad. I wasn't as bad as I thought I was, and I wasn't as good as guys I thought I was.

[Ron Camacho]

Right? Yeah. So, you know, again, just me, that anger, the way I treated certain people, the way I dealt with conflict and that ego saying, how dare you do this, how dare you do that? And the way I comported myself. I'll tell you a quick story. Supposed to alert the DA when there was a shooting, right? Even though they didn't come out, we investigated our shootings. Not, not the DA's office, but the, the investigators, the county, the county detectives. They wanted to know when we had shootings. Why? I don't know. We investigated our shootings, right? It was a new regime over there, so. But we knew all the secretaries that worked out of that office. So one day we had a shooting and they didn't get alerted. Now that was for dispatched to alert them. One of the secretaries called over, you know, of course, gossip, but told us that their deputy chief was over there talking smack about us, that he didn't get alerted. Kicked a garbage can across the hall and was just, you know, talking about the department like, you know, that we did something. I took offense to that, right? I'm like, who, who is this guy? Who are you talking about? My department. I put on my hat, I walked to the county courthouse, about five minute walk. I walked up to his office, they let me in his office and I had a meeting with him and the chief of the county detectives and basically said, what's your problem? What do you. Why are you kicking cans? And they were shocked. They were like, how does this guy know I was kicking cans? But who the hell am I to go into their office and tell them, you know, about why they're angry or why they're talking smack, you know, that's how egotistical I was. I was in their office telling them they didn't have the right to be angry about not getting notified about a shooting in my city. But that's who I was. And believe it or not, by the time I got finished talking with them, and I don't think it was loud, it wasn't about being loud, but I was sharp and I just basically told them, you know, don't talk smack about the department again, blah, blah, blah. By the time I got back to the station, the actual District attorney had called my chief and said, hey, if Camacho has any issues, he needs to call. He needs to deal with me. So I was banned from dealing with my peers, right? I was banned from dealing with the chief county detective and the deputy county detective. Postscript to that story. Me, deputy county detective are great friends. He's retired. He works for a company called Crime Watch. And he and I work extensively together. That company I used in Chambersburg and I use it now here. And we have made amends and have talked about those times and I was very happy to be able to apologize and just talk about that time. And he was going through some stuff at that time. You know, he had some issues and some stress going to time. But it just showed my mindset, just how, how, you know, that ego was just like out of control. And people fed into that. You know, they, they spun me up. They knew what buttons to push to get me to go do stupid stuff like that.

[John J. Wiley]

I'll just say this. There was a time when, when people will push my buttons because I enabled them and I built those buttons and I told people where to push to get a reaction. And people did that so that they wouldn't have to deal with their own stuff. Look at him go. He's being a real jerk, right? So I got it. And the end result is I'm responsible for my behavior. I'm not responsible for theirs. That's the thing. And it's a full time job. I laughed when you got called by the state's attorney because I'm thinking I'm still kind of that way. This is Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. We're talking to Ron Camacho. He is a retired York, Pennsylvania police officer. He is a police chief from North Charleston, S.C. and his website, if you want to get more details about what he does, is Camacho consulting.net that's CamachoConsulting.net this is law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. We're going to talk in a few moments about how he overcame the anger and became the kind of guy he always wanted to be. This is Law Enforcement Talk Radio show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Be sure to follow me on the Clubhouse app. It's like having your own talk radio station on your phone. And best of all, it is free. Be sure to follow me, John J. Wiley at Radio show and look for major announcements. That's right, the clubhouse app is free. And be sure to follow me, John J. Wiley, or ET Radio show for major announcements. That's John J. Wiley or ET Radio show on the Clubhouse app. Did I mention that it is free

[Commercial Announcer]

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[John J. Wiley]

Returning conversation on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show with Ron Camacho. He is a retired York, Pennsylvania police officer. He was also former Police Chief for Chambersburg, Pennsylvania Police Department. He is now the Chief of Police for the North Charleston, South Carolina Police Department. You can get more details about what he does. Camacho Consulting.net Camacho Consulting.net is the name Ron you talked earlier. Just to recap, a lot of childhood trauma, a lot of police trauma and stress became an issue and the way you exhibited, like a lot of people, is anger. Use the Word tyrant, and which I don't like because I think it's overused. It doesn't really apply. I always say this. If everybody's a tyrant, then no one's a tyrant because we use the term too much. But obviously, you made a lot of progress, because be honest, you can't be a police chief somewhere and exhibit that behavior because you'll have no staff working for you.

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah, I say. I joke around. I went from Genghis Khan to Buddha, you know, and that's all bad transition, by the way. No, it was a great transition. So, you know, this was affecting my marriage. We went to marriage counseling, and the therapist was like, I can't work on your marriage. I got to work on this guy here. You know, there's a lot of anger. There's a lot of issues with him. So it kind of transitioned from marriage counseling to therapy. And counseling and therapy are different. They use them interchangeably. But, you know, therapy is a lot more intensive, you know, and for six months, couple times a week, I was going there, working on my. On my stuff, you know, working on that psychological damage that was being done, you know, being told I was not good enough, I was gonna be a failure. And, you know, stuff from my childhood, you know, that you can see affected me, you know, through adulthood. You know, I think I was 44 when I retired and, you know, finally overcame that. You know, was there an aha moment?

[John J. Wiley]

Was it with your wife where you say, aha, I need to really fix me?

[Ron Camacho]

Well, I will tell you, you know, I had an affair, and I got caught, and she said, hey, we're gonna do this. And I agreed to do this.

[John J. Wiley]

That doesn't surprise me with policing and affairs, because, by the way, and I'm not making excuses for anybody's behavior. Anybody knows me, knows I won't, but. And sex issues, indiscriminate sex issues with stress and trauma and PTSD are not infrequent.

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah, and I. I own that, you know, and I'm not afraid to, when I tell my story, to mention that, you know, that that happened. I own it. And, you know, again, the counseling slash therapy did not save the marriage. I'm divorced. I'm married to a wonderful woman who saved me, additionally, who helped me on this journey, you know, and we're married to today. And she's been my rock and help me continually, continuously on this journey. But again, just working and healing that old. You know, those old wounds, and then just showing me like, hey, you know, okay, that happened. And let's get past this. Let me show you this. And you need to start owning this. You need to start taking responsibility for your own actions, like you said earlier, and just kind of, you know, throwing some of that stuff in your face and using that mirror to show you who you are. And it just helps, like, every day going there. Just after we. We broke down those barriers, and towards the end, man, I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. And, you know, by the time I ended it, there was. There was some peace. And, like, you know, at 44 years old, probably for the first time in my adult life, I felt peace, you know, which when I talk to my friends that are divorced, in their 50s and early 60s or even in their 40s, that all those guys are searching for something, peace, you know, I think we're all searching for that peace. And sometimes they're a little jealous because I have found peace.

[John J. Wiley]

And a lot of that, to be honest with you, is an inside job. It's. I always look for a long time for peace to come from the outside, and it has come from the inside first.

[Ron Camacho]

Yes. You know, and so, yeah, so I. I know, you know, that there's a stigma with. There's still a stigma. You know, even though we have shows like the Sopranos and, you know, different TV shows with. With therapists and stuff, there's still a stigma here in policing.

[John J. Wiley]

Right.

[Ron Camacho]

And I share my story wherever I go, and I believe heavily in. In getting people before psychologists and counselors because it changed my life. And I don't know what. What would have happened if I had not gone.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, here it is probably not pretty. So I'm just glad you're here having this conversation. One of the things that I want to ask you is when you speak with people about this, is it cathartic for you? Does it put a purpose to your pain?

[Ron Camacho]

I will tell you here. You know, over the years, I've done research on, like, ego, and I've taught classes and written articles. And here last summer, I taught my whole department a class on ego. Just keep them out of my office, man. Ego is hurting you in your careers. It's getting you in front of my office with discipline. And I love when, you know, somebody comes to me and they use the word ego. They said, hey, this is my ego. They kind of say they recognize, hey, this is my ego pushing me to do this, and I need to get on top of it. That makes me happy. It does. Like I said, I've had a career, you know, there's no more accolades for me, it's about seeing the next generation get better and better, seeing other people make it to the next level, whatever that level might be. You know, I don't care if they want to start a business. I don't care if they want to be chiefs or great detectives. I'm here to help as many people as possible get developed and be, be the best that they can be. And when they have an ego, can stop that. So when we have those conversations or I see that and I see that improvement, that. That's the world for me that makes me so happy. It's ridiculous.

[John J. Wiley]

One of the things I was taught, and I can't take credit for this, but ego, ego stands for easing God out. And it's putting me front and center. Does that apply to you?

[Ron Camacho]

You know what? 100%. And I say this and I've written this. The day that I put others before myself, I received so many blessings from so many different places. It's just ridiculous. I mean, just how many good things have happened to me in my life. And my wife will even say it, like, she's like something will come out of nowhere. She's like, how did that happen? How did that happen? And it's because I consistently put others before myself. Consistently. That phone rings at three o' clock in the morning and it's somebody that needs to talk to me. Maybe they're not even in my own department. Maybe they know somebody that knows somebody. You know, I'll take that phone call. My wife at times wants to take my phone and flush it down the toilet. You know, she calls it my new mistress. Right? But she knows that, she knows that this is what I enjoy, helping people and specifically helping police officers. To me, that's, that's my Olympic sport.

[John J. Wiley]

Last question before you go to your website. Do you look back on your life, anything, think sometimes it's a different guy or different stages of your life?

[Ron Camacho]

You know, I have that conversation with my wife all the time because we were high school sweethearts and we talk about, like, what would have happened if we would have stayed together. You know, I joined the army out of high school and, you know, we kind of broke up, you know, then, like. But I think I needed to go through all this to become the person that I am. I needed to go through all this hardship. I needed to go through all this stuff to open my eyes, you know, and so I'm. I'm not sad about the different things that have happened to me. You know, there are some, some things that, there are some regrets But I'm happy with the person that I am today. And yes, you sound like you'd be

[John J. Wiley]

a pretty good boss to work for. Let's go to your website camacho consulting.net. what is it about? What could be able to find there?

[Ron Camacho]

Yeah, so I do some consulting on the side. You know, I spend a lot of time doing security consulting for hospitals, teaching that Ego class and doing security stuff, looking at buildings and giving classes on stuff like that. I do some leadership classes. Right now I'm in the middle of writing a book called Bringing Ego to the Forefront and I got the first draft done and we're ready to go into pre sale. So if people are interested in that, they can email me at roncommacho Bringing ego to the forefront.com that would be awesome. And you know I can fill them and get them some some nice links to our our pre sale. There's some different packages we have and again this book is there to I think it's pretty unique because the book is there we talk about ego, but then in there there are different techniques. Techniques you can do by yourself.

[John J. Wiley]

That's what a lot of people don't talk about. Ron, I gotta wrap things up. Thank you for your service and thanks for talking about it on Law Enforcement Talk Ratio. Both very much appreciated.

[Ron Camacho]

Thank you John Jay for having me. I really do appreciate it. This is a great conversation.

[John J. Wiley]

I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and Podcast. Until then then, this is John J. Wiley. See ya.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Ron Camacho]

If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe.

[John J. Wiley]

It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.

[Ron Camacho]

It.