Are The Claims of Racism True or a Distraction?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories Episode Title: Are The Claims of Racism True or a Distraction?
Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: Maury Richards (Retired Chicago Police Lieutenant, former Martinsburg, WV Police Chief)
Date: December 14, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, host John “Jay” Wiley welcomes Maury Richards, a retired Lieutenant from the Chicago Police Department and former Police Chief in Martinsburg, West Virginia. Together, they tackle the fraught subjects of systemic racism allegations in policing, drug epidemics, law enforcement-community relationships, and the importance of truth in public debate. Their conversation is rooted in decades of street-level experience, blending personal storytelling with pointed critique of media narratives, the political climate, and calls for reform.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Transition from Chicago to Martinsburg, WV (02:31–04:34)

• Maury Richards describes the dramatic differences between policing in inner-city Chicago and smaller Martinsburg, emphasizing the shock of encountering the depth of the opioid epidemic in West Virginia versus organized gang violence in Chicago.
  • “I’ll tell you one thing, Jay, which just shocked me when I got here, was the depth of the opioid epidemic. I’d never seen anything like that in Chicago.” — Maury Richards [03:23]

2. Opioid Crisis: Scope, Strategy & Solutions (04:34–09:13)

• Richards and Wiley discuss how heroin, fentanyl, and painkillers have devastated families, ultimately impacting multiple generations.
• In Martinsburg, police implemented a three-pronged approach to combat drugs:
  • Enforcement: Targeting dealers aggressively.
  • Treatment: Providing rehabilitation opportunities.
  • Prevention: Focusing on children and families for long-term behavioral change.
  • “If you sell the poison, you’ve got to get locked up...addiction, when these people are hooked on this stuff, it is a disease...the third, maybe long term, most important component is prevention.” — Maury Richards [07:42]

3. Police in Schools & Community Relationships (11:04–14:16)

• The Martinsburg Initiative puts officers directly into schools, not just as SROs but in regular engagement roles to foster trust and personal connections, especially with at-risk youth.
  • “Sometimes meeting in small groups, just being there to develop that personal connection with kids because a lot of these kids...their attitude towards the police is going to be the same as if they got a criminal family member. We wanted to turn that around.” — Maury Richards [13:15]
• Both note the dangers in removing police from schools, citing the potential for lasting damage to trust and safety.

4. “Defund the Police” & Media Narratives (14:16–18:25)

• The guests lament the rise of anti-police sentiment, attributing much of it to media and political elites rather than community desire.
• Richards cites polling indicating the black community predominantly wants the same or more police presence, contradicting the narrative around police mistrust.
  • “81% of the black community still wants as many or more police in their neighborhoods...all this propaganda up on the top, it’s really coming from the elites, it’s coming from media, it’s coming from the hardcore left. It doesn’t reflect the way people really feel.” — Maury Richards [15:22]

5. Transparency, Storytelling, and Public Perception (17:33–18:57)

• Wiley argues police have failed to adequately tell their story, instead letting national media dictate public sentiment.
  • “We…have not been telling our stories. We’ve relied for too long on the news media to do that. They did a horrible job before and now it’s just a plain biased job.” — John J. Wiley [17:33]
• Both express frustration with police leaders' lack of public advocacy in defending law enforcement against bias and misinformation.

6. Debunking the “Systemic Racism” Claim (21:43–26:44)

• Richards directly refutes the notion of widespread or “systemic” police racism using national fatal shooting statistics:
  • Of 1,004 fatal police shootings, only 27% were black Americans (despite media focus), 55% white.
  • 90% involved armed suspects; 95% involved an attack on officers or others.
  • Disparities reflect violent crime rates, not race alone.
  • “What has fueled the violence and the hatred and the anti police...is this totally bogus false myth, this lie of systemic police racism.” — Maury Richards [18:25]
• Wiley insists the narrative lacks logic or factual basis: “None of this conversation…is based on logic or actual facts. It’s based on, you know, I heard on the internet…therefore I believe it.” [26:22]

7. “Unarmed” Shooters, Use of Force, and Public Misperceptions (27:57–35:30)

• Richards notes that “unarmed” does not mean “not dangerous”; context is always vital.
  • Only 14 unarmed black people were shot by police last year, versus 19 whites—out of ~200 million police-citizen contacts.
  • “You’re three times more likely to be struck by lightning [as an unarmed black person shot by police].” — Maury Richards [28:24]
• Wiley shares a personal near-death encounter with an “unarmed” suspect who attempted to kill him with his own service weapon:
  • “That was an unarmed man who was clearly armed at some point with my weapon, and he was trying to execute me on the street.” — John J. Wiley [34:00]

8. Violence, Police as Protectors, and Community Costs (35:30–38:54)

• Richards points out that the vast majority of black homicide victims are killed by other black individuals, not police, who account for only 0.2% of such deaths.
  • “Who’s saving these black lives in your community? It’s the police...Those were black lives saved. And who did it? It was the police.” — Maury Richards [36:36]
• Both agree that police and good cops hate bad cops most, and support rooting out misconduct.

9. Calls for Action – The Silent Majority (39:59–41:05)

• Richards urges the “silent majority” to speak out against anti-police rhetoric:
  • “That majority can’t afford to be silent anymore because otherwise this country is going to turn into something that we’ll never want to see.” — Maury Richards [40:37]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the opioid crisis’s reach:
  • “I’d never seen anything like that in Chicago.” — Maury Richards [03:23]
• On engaging with youth:
  • “You have to get these kids young and you have to make that positive connection.” — Maury Richards [13:05]
• On the reality of fatal police shootings:
  • “You’re three times more likely to be struck by lightning [as an unarmed black person shot by police].” — Maury Richards [28:24]
• On who hates bad cops most:
  • “Good cops absolutely hate bad cops. Okay?” — Maury Richards [38:50]
• On public advocacy and media narratives:
  • “We have not been telling our stories. We’ve relied for too long on the news media to do that.” — John J. Wiley [17:33]
• On the “silent majority”:
  • “That majority can’t afford to be silent anymore because otherwise this country is going to turn into something that we’ll never want to see.” — Maury Richards [40:37]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:31] — Richards compares Chicago and Martinsburg policing
• [04:34] — Opioid crisis described
• [07:22] — Three-pronged strategy to fight drugs
• [13:05] — Police engagement in schools
• [15:22] — Public support for police in the black community
• [18:25] — The myth of systemic police racism addressed
• [27:57] — Discussing “unarmed” suspects in police encounters
• [34:00] — Wiley’s life-threatening encounter with an “unarmed” suspect
• [36:36] — Statistics on black homicide victims and the role of police
• [38:50] — Who hates bad cops most
• [40:37] — Richards’s call for the silent majority to speak out

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Episode Tone and Closing Thoughts

The conversation is candid, forthright, and pointed. Both Wiley and Richards speak in a direct, sometimes confrontational manner, showing clear frustration with politicized narratives, media misinformation, and what they perceive as harmful, factually ungrounded claims of systemic racism within policing. Personal experience, statistics, and a focus on logical argumentation drive their tone. The episode closes with a plea for common-sense advocacy and public engagement to support law enforcement while continuing to improve the profession for communities and the officers within them.

Recommended For:
Listeners interested in frontline law enforcement perspectives, critiques of media and political narratives, and nuanced discussion of the intersection between crime, policy, and public trust.
Note: The episode engages in critique of progressive and left-wing movements and may conflict with some listeners’ views. It is rooted in the hosts’ and guest’s personal and professional experience in law enforcement.

Transcript

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[John J. Wiley]

Welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. In the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, their realities of investigating crimes plus those have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crime share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website letradio.com and also like us on Facebook search for the Law Enforcement Talk radio show Calling us from West Virginia, we have Maury Richards on the phone. Maury is a retired Chicago Police Department Lieutenant. He's also former please chief from Martinsburg, West Virginia. Maury, thanks so much being guest out of law Enforcement show. Very much. Appreciate it.

[Maury Richards]

Thank you Jay, thanks for this opportunity. Appreciate it.

[John J. Wiley]

It's good to have you on and I'll be honest, I think you're our first guest from West Virginia and it's a state that even though I policed in Baltimore, about the only place everyone to West Virginia was Harpers Ferry. And it's a great spot. It doesn't represent the whole state and it's a very diverse state. I've had several guests on from Chicago area Chicago pd. So we look forward to discussing some of your experience. You just retired not that long ago, correct?

[Maury Richards]

I did. I became chief in 2015 and just stepped down this June.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, congratulations on your retirement from Chicago PD and also for is it retired from the police chief position, or you just said, that's it, I've had enough.

[Maury Richards]

Well, you know, it wasn't a sudden decision. I thought about it for a while. But, you know, five years is a pretty good run after, you know, 24 in Chicago. And, you know, here in Martinsburg, you know, I came with, you know, a number of goals, a certain vision. I think we accomplished, you know, all of that. And, you know, I felt my job was done and it was time to move on.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, thank you for your service and thank you for being wise enough to say, I think my job's done. It's time for me to move on. Because all too often it seems like the higher up departments that people go a, the more forgetful they become and the less willing they are to leave.

[Maury Richards]

Well, I certainly appreciate the more forgetful they become because I've been working on that. But, you know, it was just a fantastic opportunity coming to Martinsburg. And, you know, you talked about the diversity of West Virginia. Martinsburg is very far east. You know, we're only maybe 85, 90 miles from Baltimore, D.C. it's called the Eastern Panhandle. So it's not what people typically, I think, would think of when I think about West Virginia, you know, it's not coal country and things like that. So it's very diverse, cosmopolitan. It's got a lot of challenges. And, you know, one of the things that a lot of people have asked me is like, wow, you know, how'd you make that transition from Chicago? And of course, in Chicago and I worked in busy districts my whole career. There was a huge difference. I mean, obviously the gangs, the violence was off the charts. And thank God that's not here particularly organized gangs. But I'll tell you one thing, Jay, which just shocked me when I got here, was the depth of the opioid epidemic. I'd never seen anything like that in Chicago.

[John J. Wiley]

The opioid epidemic is massive. It's widespread. And I'll be honest with you, Maury, we were dealing with heroin addicts in the 1980s in Baltimore. Baltimore is now known as, like, the heroin capital United States. And you had old junkies, you had young junkies, and the really old ones. These have what we call boxing glove hands. Their hands were always swollen and bad veins and everything else. And people may find this hard to believe. We dealt with them so often and so frequently that it became a friendly type relationship. But I'll be honest with you, I never thought that we would get to the point we are today with the Opioid problem in the United States never crossed my mind.

[Maury Richards]

Yeah, it. It was something I wasn't ready for. You know, you read about these things, of course, but then, you know, you get here and, you know, the proximity to Baltimore, you know, is a problem. And, you know, Baltimore is a big, you know, heroin hub for distribution. A lot more's come out of Philly now, too. But the thing that, you know, gets you, maybe, you know, drugs in general. But it seems maybe I'm wrong. You know, I think you've seen it as well with heroin. I mean, it's. It's like a generational thing, and, you know, you just see generations of, you know, heroin addicts. Then, of course, in West Virginia, it wasn't just the heroin, but it's the pain kills or pain pills. Excuse me, which was, you know, off the charts. And then, of course, you know, the fentanyl comes in. Yeah, but it's a deep problem. It still persists. You know, I think it's kind of been covered up, you know, by this, you know, Wuhan COVID pandemic hysteria. But it's very deep. And, you know, it tears apart families. It tears apart society.

[John J. Wiley]

It does. It's devastating to communities as well. And by the way, I remember watching. I'm not old enough to remember, but I remember watching how the heroin problem was a big issue in the 1960s and then in the early 70s, but it was primarily confined to inner city America and minority communities. And then in the 80s, it was cocaine, and then crack cocaine, and then we had PCP and we had all. Speed was always an issue. LSD and acid was always an issue, and then heroin. And that seemed to come after the pill epidemic. So many people got addicted to opiates, heavy duty opiates, as a result of recreational means and also surgical and other things. And when there was a crackdown on that, they all resorted to heroin. And now it seems like that thing's just totally out of control.

[Maury Richards]

It is. And, you know, they said with this. This Covid thing, a lot of this gone is going under the radar. But I guarantee you, you know, overdoses and things like that are. They probably increased because, you know, people are a little more underground, but, you know, it's a thing. And in Martinsburg, you know, we looked at that and, you know, we came up with our own strategy, you know, that, hey, we're going to fight this thing. And, you know, I'm not saying it's, you know, total rocket science, but you have to fight, you know, drugs on Three levels. I mean, one jeze, you're copper from, you know, a long time and you know, drug dealers got to go to jail. I mean, enforcement has to be absolutely critical. You know, if you sell the poison, you've got to get locked up. And that was number one. And then of course, you know, and this has evolved over time is that, you know, addiction, when these people are hooked on this stuff, it is a disease. And you have to have, you know, effective, you know, treatment, rehabilitation for people who need it and want it. You have to want it. But to me, the third, maybe long term, most important component is prevention. And you know, because if you don't reach children, if you don't reach families, there's no way you're going to interdict any kind of future change in behavior. So, you know, we put together some programs in Martinsburg that I believe have been very effective and should be a model, you know, working with kids in schools and you know, but same time you know, knocking down the dealers, we put together a great, it's called a drug house ordinance, you know, going after landlords that permit this type of stuff going on.

[John J. Wiley]

We'll take a short break talking with Maury Richards. Maury is retired Chicago Police lieutenant and also former Martinsburg, West Virginia police chief. Don't go anywhere.

[Maury Richards]

We'll be right back.

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[John J. Wiley]

Back to our conversation on the Law Enforcement show with Maury Richards. Maury is retired Chicago Police Department lieutenant, also former chief police of Martinsburg, West Virginia. We're talking before their break, more about going head on and handling the drug problem in your community. And you talked about several things, one of which is enforcement, which we'll talk about a little bit later on. Number two is treatment, which everyone I know has been affected by this, the opioid crisis and with people ODing loved ones. We have great partners here that, that we deal with all the time. They're phenomenal. It's Transformation Treatment center in Delray Beach, Florida, TransformationStreatment Center. Look them up or give them a call. 888-991-9725. And the other thing he talked about is education or prevention and lately was anti police climate not wanting police in schools and programs like DARE having their own knocks. Are you finding that or did you find that difficult to implement as far.

[Maury Richards]

As the police in the schools?

[John J. Wiley]

Yeah, exactly.

[Maury Richards]

Well, you know, and that's, no, no, we didn't. And that's one of the wonderful things about Martinsburg is that, you know, there's a very good relationship with the community and the schools. One of the initiatives we put together, it's called the Martinsburg Initiative, where our officers are going directly into schools. And you know, of course, you know, most departments have a school resource officer and we had a great one in the high school, but we expanded it way beyond that. Like every elementary, intermediate school, our officers are in there, you know, on a weekly basis, you know, and I made sure it was every officer in the department, you know, me included, you know, including the command staff, you know, going in, you know, first graders all the way up to, you know, eighth grade kids, being in those classrooms, maybe helping out with homework, sometimes meeting in small groups, just being there to develop that personal connection with kids because a lot of these kids, there's a lot of bad stuff going on in these homes. I mean, terrible dysfunction, criminal activity, drugs. And their attitude towards the police is going to be the same as if they got a criminal family member. And we wanted to turn that around. And we've done that, made thousands of these contacts over the last several years. And it's that Type of thing, Jay, that really changes attitudes. And you have to get these kids young and you have to make that positive connection. And in Martinsburg we've done that. And what really is scary is that this defund movement and all this Black Lives Matter nonsense and going after the police. You know, you see these cities breaking, these connections with the police and schools and that's, that's a recipe for disaster.

[John J. Wiley]

I sit here and I think back of my time in policing and I'm of the mindset that I don't think policing has changed dramatically from the 1980s to today. With the exception being technology. The police on the street nowadays have more tools, better communications, body camera videos, all the things we didn't have. But the basics of talking to people and investigation and all that stuff I don't think really has changed. But I see, I have friends that retired Baltimore police that have gone on to work at other agencies. One is a school resource officer in Delaware. Great guy, one of the best guys you could ever want to know. A great police. And their school district is talking about defunding, get rid of school resource deputies. I've talked to others where the government, not meaning police departments, but the legislatures are saying we've got to define the police and get them out of schools. They're bad influence. And I'll be honest with you, that really doesn't jive with what I experience in policing.

[Maury Richards]

Well, now you hit it right on the head. I mean, it not only doesn't jive with what you've experienced in the past, it doesn't jive with what's going on today. You know, in, and here's like a key poll number that really jumped out at me recently. You know, despite, you know, all the incredible anti police propaganda and lies that have been put down on police, 81% of the black community, you know, still wants as many or more police in their neighborhoods. You know, so, you know, all this propaganda up on the top, it's really coming from the elites, it's coming from media, it's coming from the hardcore left. It doesn't reflect the way people really feel. I mean, people want the police, people want those relationships. They want safety, they want that good relationship. And one of the things we talked about it here when I became chief, it's like the national media and we got good media in Martinsburg. They're very fair to us and very supportive. But nationally, you're going to get terrible stories and you can't fix that. But what you can do is impact, you know, every person you run into and make sure that every interaction is at, you know, the very highest level. And that's the way you change people, you know, you know, person by person. But no, you're absolutely right. You know, what's happened is, and this is why, you know, so many of these things are so important on what we're fighting is that there's been a takeover by radical left wing, hard left Marxist anti police that's filtrated from the very top. Now it's reaching school districts. You can see it with prosecuting attorneys where you got America haters like George Soros funding all these campaigns of really anti police prosecutors. And unfortunately I think know that's filtered into school districts as well.

[John J. Wiley]

Part of the blame. I was thinking about this earlier mine, as long as I can remember, police departments have been very hush hush and people say that we need more transparent. And you know what, I agree with them. But where I take exception is a lot of what these groups you talked about. The, I consider them anarchists. But a lot of these groups, we've given them the platform and the opportunity because we've not told them the truth about what's been going on. We've not been telling them the truth about the heroism and going above and beyond the call of duty of our men and women in blue. And I know that we're different colors all across the United States, but we, we as a blue family have not been telling our stories. We've relied for too long on the news media to do that. They did a horrible job before and now it's just a plain biased job. What's your thoughts on that?

[Maury Richards]

No, I think, you know, that's all part of the problem. I mean, you know, the reaction of a lot of, you know, police leadership I think has been very lax, you know, and you know, sometimes almost criminal, you know. And here's the biggest thing, you know, you know, what has fueled the violence and the hatred and the anti police, you know, just the attacks on police. Is this totally bogus false myth, this lie of systemic police racism.

[John J. Wiley]

We're going to talk about that some more when we return. This is a law enforcement based show. We're talking with Maury Richards, retired Chicago Police Department lieutenant and also former chief police of Martinsburg, West Virginia. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

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[John J. Wiley]

Return Conversation with Maury Richards Maury is a retired Chicago Police Department lieutenant and also he is the former Chief of Police of Martinsburg, West Virginia. He retired from that position. Thank you for your service, Maury. Very much appreciated. Before we went to break, we were talking about man. We're getting into a conversation that we'll go back to discussing tactics for addressing drug problems in communities. In a moment. One of the things that you brought up is this myth that people have of systemic racism and I hear it all the time. I hear that that term and another term that draws me batty absolutely out of my mind is police brutality. First of all, systemic racism. When you look at a police department, you look at them from the outside in, you're not part of the department. They wear a uniform, they have the same clothing, pretty similar appearance, hair standards, everything else. And they can look like a homogenized group of people, but they are made up of individual individuals. And let's just say my own department, 2500 to 3000 people, each one of them has their own moral compass. They have their own ideas of right and wrong. You're not going to convince them to do things that violate their moral compass because they put on a uniform and take an oath. Nowhere in the oath was there saying, I'm going to violate people's rights. That didn't happen. So I take great exception to that. Another one is police brutality. Anytime there's a use of force, police brutality or police violence, that's become interchangeable. That was the case. And I was then, then some people called me the most brutal person or walked the face of the earth because I was involved in a lot of stuff. It was a high crime area and not everybody was peaceful. As a matter of fact, the no brainer in this is these high crime areas. Look at all the murders. You think that the police are the problem? Where's all the other crime coming from? I just, I go crazy with this systemic racism thing and police brutality. Your thoughts on that?

[Maury Richards]

Well, yeah. This, you know, systemic race and racism claim is a total lie. And you know, we're talking about. One of the things that I believe that police leadership could have done better and still can do better is that, you know, when people tell these lies and who are we talking about pushing this? We're talking about the ultra radical left. We're talking perpetuated, you know, by the media, you know, Hollywood elites, university, you know, administrations. So it's a very, you know, prevalent concept, but it's a total lie. So, you know, you know, here's the reader's digestion, you know, version of, you know, what's going on there. They talk about systemic racism and all, you know, mostly focusing on police involved shootings of offenders. Okay? So last year there were 1,004 fatal police shootings. Okay. Now if you looked at that media, you'd say, wow, you know, that's a lot of black people that got killed because, you know, that's the only story you ever see. Well, the facts of the matter are only 27% of those fatalities were black Americans, 55% were white okay, 90% of those were with people involved carrying a weapon, and 95%, they were also either attacking that officer or another person. So they were all, as you said, involved in violent acts. And that's how they got shot. Now, so one of the things, you know, that the left and the media put out is like, okay, well, 27% were black, but, you know, blacks only constitute 14% of the population. So isn't this disparity proof of this racism? The truth is absolutely not. Because, you know, in a major study that was done, they looked at 200 counties across the country, and what was the determining factor was if people were involved in violent crime. So in a county where the majority of white people were committing crime, well, guess what? The majority of white, you know, shooting or suspects being shot by the police, they were going to be white. If the majority of black people are committing crime in a county, majority of, you know, shooting suspect, suspects being shot are going to be black.

[John J. Wiley]

But the problem with that, Mari, is it makes total sense. I'm not trying to be, I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but it is logical. And none of this conversation that people have is based on logic or actual facts. It's based on, you know, I heard on the Internet is so and so said to so and so, and they told me, and therefore I believe it.

[Maury Richards]

Well, you're absolutely right, Jay. You know, and as I said, you can't control what, you know, media who hates the police is going to say, but what we can control is how we respond to it. So, you know, where are the other police leaders standing up and saying, this is lies, this is BS and they.

[John J. Wiley]

Need to be more proactive. Some of the departments are really getting good at their own media relations division where they, they will actually break down films of body cams and they'll be proactive about it. There's other ones who are really good on social media. One of the best is Bangor, Maine. Their social media page is phenomenal. And what they do and how they tell their stories, unbelievable. But I remember being a rookie and we had a public information officer who was, he was always professional, always sharp. He was available no matter what, what time of day or night. And I could never recall him ever, ever in public eye throwing police under the bus. And that's the first thing I hear from a lot of public information officers, a lot of police chiefs, a lot of mayors, and also district attorneys. They're going after the police and it's never the bad guy.

[Maury Richards]

Well, and yeah, and with the district attorneys, you Know, as we talked about with so many of them now being their campaigns being funded by the radical left, you're seeing more of that. There's this one other aspect I want to talk about on these police shootings because the amount of unarmed blacks being shot has always been brought up as proof of the systemic racism. Last year There were like 14 unarmed black people shot by the police. There were 19 white people, by the way, that, you know, no one knows about. So this has to be put in context. First of all, There were approximately 200 million contacts between police and citizens last year and 14 unarmed blacks are shot. So, you know, if you're looking at what's the likelihood of being shot, if you're an unarmed black person in this country, you're three times more likely to be struck by lightning. Okay? That's how rare it is. But if you look at the media, you'd never think that. The other thing we always have to remember is that just because you're unarmed and Jay, you know, this is absolutely. Or any other copper listening who's ever been in a gym and had a fight. Just because you're unarmed doesn't mean you're not a threat. I mean, you know, you look at Ferguson, Missouri, Michael Brown, you know, the so called gentle giant, 6, 5, 2 90, you know, you know, trying to rip a gun out of, you know, policeman Darren Wilson's hand and you know, attacking him. So he was unarmed for a while, you know, until he, you know, trying to get that gun so he could arm himself. So, you know, so once again, it's so rare that this happens. But that's not, you know, the public.

[John J. Wiley]

Perception, but they use the term systemic and implicit and that it's system wide and it comes from a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense, but it comes from government which by the way is elected by the people that are complaining and they set the rules and laws and those were elected by the people who are complaining. And a great story which when we return, I'll tell you. My career was ended by an unarmed man who tried to shoot me with my service weapon while still in my hand, causing lifelong irreparable injury. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Be sure to check out our website, letradio.com. that's letradio.com there you'll find episodes of the show available as a podcast after airing on radio. And they're always free. There's 700 plus episodes on there right now. There's blogs, you can get information about our sponsors. All that and much [e-mail] again the website is letradio.com WSECU isn't just one.

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[John J. Wiley]

Back to a conversation with Maury Richards, retired Chicago Police Department Lieutenant, also former Chief of Police of Martinsburg, WV. For winds a break Mario, we're talking about unarmed people, whether the threat or not, and the term unarmed is something the media loves to throw around. I can just tell you from my own experience, I was involved in four shootings in my my career. The first two I never fired back because it was obvious to me at the time that the threat had ceased. The other two were different and the last one was a car thief who was transporting a lot of crack cocaine and while trying to arrest them, trying to reholster my weapon, he got a hold of it while still my hand and the fight ensued. And thank God it was a revolver because it Was pointed at my head while still my hand, and we're firing rounds off. This man was actively trying to shoot me and I was trying to shoot him. And fortunately both of us survived. Long story short, I thought I sprained my wrist and I wound up having three surgeries. Two steel plates destroyed the cartilage in my wrist just been fight over the weapon. But that was an unarmed man who was clearly armed at some point with my weapon, and he was trying to execute me on the street. And I would have done anything at that point to survive. And that happens far more often than people think just because they get lost as term unarmed and also being shot in the back, which we can talk about another day. In your experience, did you ever encounter that where people made an attempt to disarm you?

[Maury Richards]

Well, there's been a number of physical confrontations. It never got to a direct disarming. But I mean, I absolutely know what you're talking about. And you know, I'm sorry you got hurt, but thank God you're alive.

[John J. Wiley]

Yeah, thank God I didn't get shot in the face. Yeah, it's. Look, it could have been much worse. And my days of feeling sorry for myself over that are long gone. But the other thing about this is, and I want people just to use their brain for a moment. I mean, I know it's asking a lot. When people are on their phone, their smartphone, they see something on Facebook, they don't check it or other social media, they share it right away. You got Google? Google it. Marquis Pouncey took the name of Antwan Rose Jr. Office helmet, put up a fallen officer because he said, I looked into it, I saw the details and I should have done that. And my hat's often for doing that. People who have this idea that police in general, United States are racist and looking for excuses to kill people and kill black people. I want them to do some basic numbers. There's Roughly, we'll estimate, 800,000 police United States. If that were true. If that were true, you would have at least 400,000 people a year being shot and killed by police. And of that, 300,000 plus would be black. The truth is those numbers are nowhere near that. They're like a thousand of all races.

[Maury Richards]

Well, yeah, a thousand of all races. And you know, you touched upon really important thing here, Jay. You know, these attacks on the police, We've already seen more of them. Just look at those, you know, LA deputies, you know, and that assassination attempt, you know, you know, they're shooting at, you know, officers, houses in New Jersey, it's horrible. You know, and what's fueling this? I mean, you know, of course, a lot of it, you know, driven, you know, by this radical left who wants to destroy our entire country. But, you know, people feel, you know, twisted people somehow feel, you know, justified, that, hey, you know, I'm going to go, you know, kill a Nazi, I'm going to go kill a racist. You know, that's why it's so important, you know, to fight these lies. Because as long as these lies persist, I mean, one, we're never going to make meaningful change. And, you know, everyone can agree that policing can get better. Sure, you know, but, you know, attacks are going to increase on police. This, you know, violent mob rule is going to increase. And here's one of the biggest things that no one sees, you know, the real violence, if you're talking about, you know, the tragedy of black violence is in these inner cities. And that's going to increase because, you know, last year there were over 7,400 black people that were homicide victims in this country. You know, how many were killed by police? You know, 0.2%. Yeah, 93% were killed by other blacks. You know, and, you know, so who was, you know, saving, talking about black lives matter. Who's saving these black lives in your community? It's the police. You know, you know, I've been there, you've been there. You know, anyone at NYPD from, you know, 10 years, like, say 1991 or maybe 20 years to 2010 or 11, I mean, these homicide rates dropped incredibly.50%, 60%. Those were black lives saved. And who did it? It was the police, you know, working with the communities, but also being proactive, going after criminals, putting people, you know, where they, you know, putting dangerous criminals where they need to be, and that's behind bars with the total support of the decent people in those communities. That's why you get 81% of black Americans wanting more of the same.

[John J. Wiley]

And there's still out there this good people start there. They just got started speaking up. Yeah, I understand why people are reluctant to do that on social media. I understand why people reluctant do that because they get labeled and attacked by these groups of people. And at some point, look, I'm not advocating violence, what whatsoever, but at some point, if you push me far enough, I'm gonna take the gloves off and say, all right, I'm not moving anymore, and you and I are gonna have to deal with it.

[Maury Richards]

No, you're right. And I tell you, you know, you know, everything we've talked about today, you know, the common sense. People know that. Yeah. Are there a few bad police out there? Yeah, just like any other profession. And I'll tell you, Jay, you know, we've both been a police for a long time, you know, I know you'll agree, you know, who hates, you know, bad cops the most. Good cops. Absolutely hates bad cops. Okay?

[John J. Wiley]

And we want them gone and we've always wanted them gone. And. And again, you got to use logic. People have this mindset that, look, I'm not gonna say anything because there's this thin blue wall of silence. Well, here's the reality. I've got a wife, I got kids, I've got health insurance. I'm not going to risk all that for some guy who is a jackhammer and does stupid things or unethical things, because that's what happens. Those guys want to get caught first, so they don't do that. No one does it. Who's gonna go to prison for someone who's doing illegal stuff.

[Maury Richards]

Right?

[John J. Wiley]

I don't know of anybody that's willing to do that. Certainly not in the police world. There's so many things we didn't get to talk about that we've got to talk about in the future. One of the things I really want to discuss with you, and we unfortunately ran out of time, is what we can do as communities to go after these drug neighborhoods and how badly they impact our neighborhoods and certain tactics that we use. And unfortunately, we're about out of time. Are there some projects you're working on that you want to publicize?

[Maury Richards]

Well, I'll tell you, you know, one of the things I'm still involved with, of course, is the Martinsburg initiative, you know, working with schools, kids and the police. But I'll tell you, if we allow this country to go where the radical left wants to take it, we won't have a country anymore. And you know, what we see on these streets in these Democrat run cities? Portland, Seattle, New York, Chicago. That's going to be what we're all in for. And I'd just say one last thing. We talk about a lot of common sense and where people are coming from. And there's a silent majority out there. I agree. But that majority can't afford to be silent anymore because otherwise this country is going to turn into something that we'll never want to see. It'll be a total disaster, and we can't let that happen.

[John J. Wiley]

One of the things you just hit on. I took my first trip to Ireland a couple years ago. My grandparents immigrated there. Really?

[Maury Richards]

Okay. My mom, my mom grew up there.

[John J. Wiley]

And the funny thing is that's a country. The Republic of Ireland is about 4.75 million people. And when I was there, they were up in arms because the year before they had like 79 homicides with almost 5 million people. Baltimore, my old department, my old City, had 330 out of population, about 660,000. Then you add in New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, other big cities, and the numbers are staggering. I looked at since 1980, I think it's somewhere around 15,000 people been murdered in Baltimore alone. I don't have the exact numbers, might even be higher than that. We have numbers that entire countries don't have in small cities. And if we don't support our policeman and demand more from them and demand better and demand politicians actually back them up, we are in for a world of hurt. Maury, thanks so much for being a guest on Law Enforcement. Very much appreciated.

[Maury Richards]

Thanks for this opportunity, Jay. It was great talking to you.

[John J. Wiley]

I'd like to thank our guests. We're coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and Podcast. Until then, this is John J. Wiley. See ya.