From The Texas Rangers To TV Star

Summary

Podcast Summary
Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories
Episode: From the Texas Rangers to TV Star
Date: March 1, 2026
Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: Jim Holland, Retired Texas Ranger, Star of Killer Confessions: Case Files of a Texas Ranger (Investigation Discovery)

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Episode Overview

This episode features a deep-dive conversation between host John "Jay" Wiley and retired Texas Ranger Jim Holland, who has gone from investigating some of Texas’s most notorious serial killers to starring in the true crime television series Killer Confessions on Investigation Discovery and HBO Max. Holland discusses the realities behind high-profile homicide investigations, delves into the psychology of serial killers, explores personal and professional trauma experienced on the job, and reflects on transitioning from law enforcement to television. Throughout, the episode balances behind-the-scenes insight with candid explorations of the lasting impact of crime and police work.

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Key Discussion Points

1. From Policing to TV: The Unseen Path

• Rangers and Media Shyness
  • Holland notes that Texas Rangers traditionally avoid the spotlight; the job is about serving cases and victims, not personal fame. (03:26–04:48)
    • “Our goal is that everything goes through that sheriff or that chief of police, and we're there to help. We're not there to get out in front of the media.” – Holland (04:21)
  • Both share anecdotes about rarely giving interviews as police, reinforcing that policing is “not about you; it’s about the cases and the victims.” (03:58)
• Holland’s Unlikely Start
  • Not from a law enforcement family; started in corporate America, but felt “a calling to help others.” (05:05–07:16)
    • “I never thought about it… until, you know, I graduated college… but there was something missing in my life, and I kind of felt this calling.” – Holland (05:18)
  • Originated from Chicago, moved to Texas with no prior policing ambition. (07:16)
• Path to the Texas Rangers
  • All Rangers start as Texas DPS state troopers, usually with 8+ years in law enforcement before selection. (08:19–09:16)
    • “There’s no rookie Rangers. Your rookie is a person who’s been out there for 12 years.” – Holland (09:16)

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2. Real-Life Case Files

Case #1: William Reese – Serial Killer

• Episode: "Pathologically Evil" (12:23–18:18)
• Reese committed murders across Oklahoma and Texas, suspected but never convicted until Holland led a breakthrough interview resulting in confessions and the recovery of victims’ remains—nearly 20 years after the crimes.
• Key Techniques:
  • Going “mission-oriented” into high-stakes interviews, knowing the suspect is “not going to give it to you.” (16:56)
  • Emphasizes that seasoned serial killers are highly manipulative, often emotionally unaffected by their crimes.
    • “Psychopaths, sociopaths, your true serial killers… their morals… it doesn’t affect them. They might cry for a second, then snap back.” – Holland (15:19)
  • Reveals serial killers evolve and “get better” at avoiding detection:
    • “You generally look at their first murder and you’re going to see an extremely disheveled crime scene. But they learn and they get better.” (16:56)
• Observation:
  • Most serial murders are “stranger-on-stranger”—often the toughest crimes to solve. (18:02)
    • “Most serial killers are stranger on stranger crimes, aren’t they?” – Wiley (18:02)
    • “Yeah… They are predators. They travel around looking for the person they can get to.” – Holland (18:18)

Case #2: Crystal McDowell – Murder in a Hurricane

• Episode: "Lie, Cheat and Kill" (23:55–28:17)
• McDowell, a realtor and mother, goes missing during a Houston hurricane. With the city overwhelmed, Rangers are called in. Holland narrows three suspects down, focuses on her ex-husband, and through a grueling week, obtains a confession and locates her body in an alligator-infested area before evidence is destroyed.
  • “There was no electricity, everything was flooded. I pretty much worked the case for a week out of my truck, heating up beanie weenies on a Bunsen burner.” – Holland (25:46)
• Emphasizes most homicides are committed by someone the victim knows (contrast to serial killings).
  • “This guy… was not a serial killer. This was someone that was known to the victim.” – Wiley (26:40)
  • “It was her ex-husband…borderline sociopathic, psychopathic.” – Holland (26:57)
• Distinguishes that confessions from sociopaths are rare, as “there’s no remorse” (28:17)

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3. The Psychological Cost of the Job

Lasting Trauma

• Lingering Effects & Coping
  • Both discuss how exposure to violence, especially homicide and child victim cases, carries lasting psychological scars. (30:26–34:41)
    • “I carry around stuff that still bothers me… I’m not the guy you want to invite to barbecues.” – Wiley (30:26)
    • “There’s a drawer, right? And someone opens it up and you look in and, you know, there’s no going back from that point. You don’t erase these things. Homicide scenes, kid scenes… you just never comes out of your brain.” – Holland (32:21)
  • Realizes after retirement, when the pace slows, old memories “start sinking back in.” (33:42)
• Humor as a Coping Mechanism
  • Humor and self-deprecation among law enforcement—recognizing they're “dinged up, damaged goods,” but not useless. (30:40)

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4. Law Enforcement in the Media and Public Understanding

Motivation for Telling Stories Publicly

• Why Go to TV?
  • Healing, educating the public, and changing the narrative around law enforcement.
    • “It’s part of the healing process… but more importantly, it’s about helping others… and making sure people don’t forget about the victims, about the families, about the killers—and not in a good way.” – Holland (35:13)
    • Stresses the importance of vigilance against evil and the need for forensic resources.
    • Notable Quote:
      “As horrible as it sounds, I want people to realize that there’s predators out there, there’s people that are trying to hurt you, there’s people that are trying to kill you. And yeah, I think we need to be vigilant against them and we need to support law enforcement in their functions…” – Holland (35:13)

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5. The Real Cost — And Why It’s Worth It

• Humility and Staying Grounded
  • Despite TV fame, Holland insists:
    “I’m completely and totally surrounded by people… especially rangers… pretty good at keeping you grounded. You know how cops are.” (37:45)
  • Culture among police ensures “your head stays down on the ground.” (38:06)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the traditional Ranger approach:
  • “We're more effective if people don't know we're working on things.” – Holland (02:42)
• On the impact of serial killer interviews:
  • “It's really difficult to discuss evil… to see how moralistically deprived an individual can be, the things they can do and the pleasure they take out of it.” – Holland (20:36)
• On trauma and memory:
  • “If there was a bleach that you could use to sterilize your brain… that would be a really good thing.” – Holland (32:21)
• On the motivation behind policing and telling these stories:
  • “I want people to understand that, you know, cops are out there doing good. There's evil, there is bad people… and law enforcement is there to help us and get these evil people off the street.” – Holland (35:13)

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Important Timestamps

• Career & Texas Ranger Origins:
  • 03:26–09:16
• Case #1 – William Reese (“Pathologically Evil”):
  • 12:23–18:18
• On Stranger Murders and Serial Killers:
  • 18:02–19:05
• Case #2 – Crystal McDowell (“Lie, Cheat and Kill”):
  • 23:55–28:17
• On Trauma, Life After Policing:
  • 30:26–34:41
• Transition to Media, Motivation:
  • 35:13–37:45

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers an unfiltered window into the world of major crime investigation from a uniquely qualified guest. Jim Holland reflects openly on the realities of serial crime, the psychological grind of homicide work, the transition to TV, and the enduring commitment many officers feel toward public safety, healing, and truth-telling—even after their badge is put away.

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For further content and resources, listeners are encouraged to check out the show’s Facebook page and Killer Confessions on Investigation Discovery and HBO Max.

Transcript

[A]

Reggie, I just sold my car online.

[B]

Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did?

[A]

Yep, On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame.

[B]

You don't say.

[A]

Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Way to go. So, about that picture frame.

[A]

Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.

[D]

Car selling made easy on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

[C]

He is a retired Texas Ranger. He investigated some of the most prominent, prolific serial cases known to man. He has a new television series on Investigation Discovery Channel, an eight part series called Killer Confessions. Case Files of a Texas Ranger as on Tuesday nights on Investigation Discovery and is available streaming on hbo. Max. He's coming up on the law enforcement talk radio show. Welcome to the law enforcement talk radio show. It's in the law enforcement talk radio show we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, their realities of investigating crimes, plus those who have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crime share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website, letradio.com and also like us on Facebook, search for the law enforcement talk radio show. Of all the radio stations in the United States, there are no other shows like the law enforcement talk radio show on Facebook. There's only one official page. Do a search on Facebook for the law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to like the law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page. Calling us from Texas, we have Jim Holland on the law enforcement talk radio show. Jim is retired Texas Ranger. I love the sound of Texas Rangers. We'll talk about that in a few moments. He's also star of the television television series on Investigation Discovery Channel called Killer Confessions Case Files of a Texas Ranger. It shows on Tuesday nights episodes available stream on HBO Max and her website is investigation discovery.com first of all, Jim, thanks for your service. B. Thanks for being guests on the law enforcement talk radio show. Talk about it. Very much appreciated.

[B]

Hey, thank you. I appreciate you having me.

[C]

Did you. I gotta ask this question. It's been a while since I've done investigative discovery interviews. Did you ever think you'd be a TV star from being a cop?

[B]

No. No, most don't. Never thought it. Never inspired to do it.

[C]

The thing was, I was always taught that we shied away from the camera as much as possible. And that goes, I'd imagine the same for you?

[B]

Yeah, you know, through my career. Well, you know, specifically with the Rangers or Creed was kind of, you know, always to stay behind the scenes, lead from behind. Randy Prince was a former senior Ranger captain, and that was his. His big motto is, you didn't want to put yourself out there in the press, or, you know, put yourself out there in general, were more effective if people don't actually generally know we're working on things. So, yeah, that was always a goal. It was never to get out in the media. And, you know, for the most part, you won't see Rangers doing interviews. And throughout my career, I mean, I think I can think of two interviews that I did, and that was to push a case forward and look for new leads.

[C]

I was interviewed. And by the way, we were always talking that we had public information officers. They handled most of the interviews. It's very rare. We did interviews. But one, I got interviewed by Oprah Winfrey when she was the news anchor for WJZ 13 in Baltimore. I'm sure she doesn't remember it. It was a big deal to me, not to her.

[B]

That would be one I'd want a picture of.

[C]

That would be as a long time ago. Trust me, I had a lot of color in my hair back then. Now it's pure white. Jim, the other thing was we were taught that it's not about you.

[B]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[C]

We're taught that the. It's not about you. It's about the agencies, about the cases, about the victims.

[B]

Exactly. Yes, 100%. And, you know, Rangers were interesting as law enforcement go. You know, you were former Baltimore PD and you have original jurisdiction over, you know, homicides that occur in the city. For the most part, Rangers are stepping in to help other agencies.

[C]

Right.

[B]

We're the assisting agency. And, you know, if we're helping a local PD or sheriff's department, then, you know, our goal is that everything goes through that sheriff or that chief of police, and we're there to help. We're not there to get out in front of the media. It's not our goal to hold a press conference. And like I said, you really. I can't think of too many times that you've ever seen that in my career that I can remember where, you know, Rangers are out there in front of the podium.

[C]

Gotta ask this question. And I don't know much about Texas policing, but I do know the Texas Rangers. I'm aware of them. And there's a certain cachet, there's a certain bravado that goes with the name of Texas Ranger. Did you feel that calling when you're a youngster?

[B]

You know, it's an interesting story. I read a book when I was very young, probably like 7, 8 years old, about the Texas Rangers, and that was the first time that I'd ever heard of him. I found the book very interesting. I think I actually kept the book from the library, which probably should admit to. But I never thought about it or. Or, you know, looked back on it until, you know, I graduated college and I. And I got into law enforcement, and it was. No. I mean, I guess it's kind of a strange thing to say, but it was never my goal to be a police officer. It was never my goal to be a Texas Ranger. I got a great job out of college. I worked for a Fortune 500 company. I made great money. But there was something missing in my life, and I kind of felt this calling to help others, to be involved with community and do something for the greater good. And that's ultimately why I became a state trooper in Texas through the ranks of the troopers. I don't think there's too many people that work for the Texas Department of Public Safety that don't ultimately strive to make Ranger, but I love being a trooper. I had a great time on the road. I really didn't want to promote, but I promoted through the ranks anyway. But I love, you know, going beyond the initial traffic contact. I love criminal addiction. You know, arresting criminals warrants loads of dope, guns, taking bad guys off the street. I mean, to me, that was. That was a blast. But it just kind of evolved into the. Into the Rangers. And, you know, there was a point in my career where I decided I'm felt like, you know, I really wanted to take that next step and start doing homicide investigations.

[C]

And it's a transition that cowboy hats got to have something to do with it.

[B]

Well, troopers in Texas can have cowboy hats. We didn't have cowboy hats in Baltimore completely, but. But, yeah, the cowboy hat doesn't hurt.

[C]

Here's two things, and before you get into your story. Number one, you don't sound like you're from Texas. And number two, you don't sound like Sam Elliot.

[B]

No, you know, I'm originally from west of Chicago, grew up and raised there, and then went to school at the University of Louisville in Kentucky. So migrated to Texas, got here as soon as I could, and once I stepped foot on it and had the eyes of Texas on me, I couldn't get away.

[C]

That's funny, because you would think a Chicago Boy would not wind up in Texas. They wind up doing law enforcement in Illinois. If. And by the way, it didn't sound like you came from a law enforcement background.

[B]

No, not at all. No. I can't think of anyone who I'm related to who was in law enforcement in any way, shape or form. And it was never, I mean, it was never a career path that I thought about. It was never anything that I looked at. I mean, it's kind of a strange thing. Like I said, I stepped out and I found success in business and, and made money and business just, you know, something was lacking. That, that weird calling. I don't know that I can explain it other than I just felt like I needed to help people.

[C]

One of the things that a lot of people don't seem to get is, And I don't, I don't profess to be an expert in Texas policing, but everybody that's a Texas Ranger pretty much starts as a Texas DPS or state trooper. Am I wrong?

[B]

Yeah. It's a requirement. So at a minimum, you have to have eight years with the Texas. I'm sorry, you have to have four years with the Texas Department of Safety and then eight years in total law enforcement. So everyone starts out the same way, wearing Texas tan on the side of the road, you know, driving a black and white. Some people can progress a little bit faster. But in general, if you want to make the ranks of ranger, you're probably eight to 20 years into your career before you get there.

[C]

And the reason I bring that up is we had a lot of people. I still get this periodically, and I laugh when people ask me and say, oh, my plans, I'm going to college, then I'm going to police academy, then I'm a homicide detector. I'm like, yeah, it doesn't quite work like that, pal. You gotta, you gotta earn your chops. Yeah.

[B]

And I, you know, and that's definitely the way of the Rangers. You know, there's no, there's no really rookie Rangers. Your rookie is a person who's been out there for, you know, 12 years. And, you know, as a, in the Rangers, it's actually an appointment. I mean, you go through a promotion process, but the reality is it's an appointment. But what they're looking for is people that bring something in and they're looking, they're not trying to teach someone to be a cop, right? They're, they're going to train them some more and they're going to help them, but they're really looking for someone with a skill set, drive, work ethic who's proven themselves, whether it's, you know, on the side of the road in black and white, whether it's in with Jim Holland.

[C]

He's retired Texas Ranger. He's also the star of the investigative Discovery Channel series called Killer Confessions. Case Files of a Texas Ranger on Tuesday nights and available streaming on HBO Max return. We'll talk about a couple of cases. Don't go anywhere. We will be right back.

[D]

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[C]

Contest. From Texas we have Jim Holland, retired Texas Ranger, also television star. He's kind of a big deal. He won't tell you that. He is star of the Investigation Discovery series Killer Confessions. Case Files of a Texas Ranger on Tuesdays on Investigation Discovery Channel episodes available stream on HBO Max and her website is investigation discovery.com I took a look a couple of some of the cases. Number one, Jim and number two, I got to ask this before we get into the first case that you preview on your show. How did you wind up coming specializing in homicides? It's not an area of police work. A lot of people are really good

[B]

at, you know, stepping into the Rangers. That's primarily what rangers do, homicides, major felonies, investigations. And that was the need in the area that I went to. It's funny because my boss, the guy who chaired my promotional committee who basically decided, you know, where I was going to go, said I found a really special spot for you and you know there's lots of murders and I know you're going to excel at it. And you know, they kind of matched me up with the spot, I guess based on my personality drive or what they felt like I would be really good in. And you know, it was just busy. It was, it was crazy busy, you know, non stop experience. And, and I mean that was just kind of ended up being my calling. I guess at the end of the day is those were the cases I enjoyed working and the ones that I excelled at.

[C]

Let's go to a couple of cases. Number one, I looked at your website investigationdiscovery.com's website and pathologically Evil is the first episode. What can you tell us about that?

[B]

Sure. It's a series of murders, four out of Oklahoma and Texas, Dallas area and Houston area. And they rotate around a guy named William Reese who ultimately ends up being a serial killer. And it's a story of how that case started in 1997 and how ultimately it was solved in 2016 with confessions and William Reese actually leading us to two of the victims, remains that had been buried roughly 20 years.

[C]

And what part did you play in this investigation?

[B]

So my primary role was to go in and interview William Reese. He'd been interviewed throughout. He was actually in prison at the time for a separate kidnapping that occurred in Houston. And people had made runs at him throughout the years, roughly 20 years, nonstop. He was a suspect in multiple murders, but he'd never, never admitted culpability into anything. He was tried and convicted on the, say, paw kidnapping. And he was sitting there for about 20 years when I went in and talked to him. But my goal was to get him to talk, to see what he would say. We had two missing victims. We had a young 12 year old girl that had disappeared for a month and was ultimately found. And we had one victim that was found shortly after her death. But there was no answers, just kind of a thought process of, you know, there's real probability that this guy did it. We went through forensics and there were some things that matched up, but it wasn't enough to arrest him on, it was enough to go to trial. Some of it, a lot of it was fiber evidence. But the district attorney's office had refused to look at or refused to accept, basically. And yeah, so they asked me to go in there and make a run at the guy.

[C]

One of the things that two things actually, one is and my wife, who I met years after retiring from police work. And we watch these shows, I don't watch a lot of them anymore, but we watch these shows and they have the interview room and they had the so called bad guys that watch what they'll do when they leave them. The guilty guy will take a nap, he'll go to sleep, the innocent guy will pacing the floors. And almost inevitably, nine times out of ten, that's what happens. Is that the case with you, man?

[B]

You know, with me, there's, I deal with some really, really weird stuff. Serial killers, dismemberment, ritualistic killings.

[C]

They're totally different.

[B]

I mean there's, there's, I'm sorry, they're

[C]

totally different than your average Killer.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that's where I progressed to at the end of my career. You know, I would say in general with your everyday homicide, which I don't know of another way to say it other than, than that your non serial killer, non ritualistic killing. You know, I think you, you see people that confess and they, you know, the weight of the world is lifted off them. Maybe they break down, maybe they cry, but you can, you can just see the, everything changes after that. You know, they, they deal with it for a second and they, they get better. You know, psychopaths, sociopaths, your, your true, you know, serial killers, they're just completely different because it doesn't affect them in the same way. They don't think about it. They, morals and a lot, a lot of times, I mean they, you might get a second of crying or something like that. For the, for the most part, they snap out of it and kind of go back to the same personality or maybe a happier personality. It's really bizarre to see their transition.

[C]

The other thing that's difficult is most of people I encountered, they were not hardcore criminals. They, and, or if they were, they weren't experienced. You had. Serial killers have been doing this for a long. I know he's Ted Bundy example Ted Bundy. A lot of people don't realize his last murder that he was caught for and executed for having. In Florida, small town in Florida, Lake City, Florida. But he had years of practice and training and he had it down. And then you add into it someone's been in prison for a long time. You had to go in this interview with, you know, what you want to accomplish and he's not going to give it to you.

[B]

Right? Yeah, you, I mean, you go in mission oriented and it's Samuel Little, for example. You know, Samuel Little is a guy who killed for 40 years and didn't get caught. 93 victims. You know, that's someone who knows his craft. Right. These aren't your everyday knuckleheads. I mean, these are really, really smart people, genuinely geniuses. They put a lot of thought process, their thought process into it. They're very careful of what they do. They, a lot of times they plan and then it's not their first rodeo. Right? You, if you, you look at serial killers and you generally look at their first murder and you're going to see an extremely disheveled crime scene. But they learn and they get better and you see this perfection and they stop making the same mistakes. You know, in general, if you're, if you're looking for a serial killer. My thought process is, you know, if you can find the first series in the murder and you're hoping for some type of forensics, that's generally the one that's going to, you know, get you home.

[C]

Another thing before we go to a break and we go in the next case is I'm no expert in homicide investigation. One thing I do say is stranger on stranger murders are very rare and very hard to solve. And most serial killers are stranger on stranger crimes, aren't they?

[B]

Yeah, I mean they're not, they're not grabbing the next door neighbor. They're, you know, generally stalking prey. They're predators. I mean they travel around and they look for, you know, the person that they can get to fairly easily and that they can get away from. A lot of times they have a really specific victim MO and they're studying these people and they're really watching them and waiting for the right moment. And back to William Reese. He was one that had a very specific MO and he was looking for a certain type of age and a certain type of young girl and hair color and height and weight and you know, he'd sit there and basically stalk them and do the work to find them when they're vulnerable.

[C]

We're talking about Jim Holland. He's retired Texas Ranger. He is also star of the television series on his investigation Discovery channel called Killer Confessions. Case Files of a Texas Rangers. On Tuesday nights episodes available stream on HBO Max and our website is investigation discovery.com this is law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We will be right back. You can find us on Facebook. Just search for the law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to click like. Contest. From Texas we have Jim Holland, a retired Texas Ranger on the law enforcement talk radio show. He is the star of the Investigating Discovery series Killer Confessions Case Files of a Texas Ranger. On Tuesday nights on Investigation Discovery Channel episodes available to stream on HBO Max and our website is investigation discovery.com before we go into the second case, Jim, that we're talking about, I got to say this. There's a lot of things about police work I don't talk about. And because a lot of people, it's almost as if like it's like they're, they're interested until they start finding out details and like I don't want this more than more than I want to hear do you encounter is like this is a strange cat because he's talking about stuff that is far fetched and they don't believe. Yeah,

[B]

I Guess, you know, I don't share the intimate details of very many of these cases and definitely not, you know, a whole lot outside of law enforcement. I think there's things that people don't want to hear. Kind of explodes their brain and, you know, diving really, really deep into some of these serial killers heads is, I think, too much for most people. I just don't think. I mean, you know, I was asked to describe, you know, has Hollywood ever portrayed it the right way or what movie's the best? And no, they haven't. I mean, I think you have to sit in a room with these people and when they start opening up and listen to what they say and the way they say and kind of look into their eyes to really understand how twisted and messed up they are. But it's really difficult to discuss evil in that way. I mean, how moralistically deprived an individual can be. The things that they can do and the pleasure they take out of it. I don't think people really understand that. I think it's hard to grasp. Maybe that's a good thing for society.

[C]

I think it is. And it's a bit of a culture shock for me. And one of the things I tell people all the time, especially I have, I was raised by my mother, my dad was in the Navy, he was gone all the time. I have four younger sisters. And one thing I learned early on police work is that women are prey for a lot of predators. And a lot of these serial killers are predators. They're not. They don't do crimes of opportunity. They stalk their victims and they pick out a certain. And they have it all planned out, don't they?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, the, you know, kind of like I said before, if you're going to find a disheveled crime scene with a serial killer, it's going to be, you know, the first one, the one that was more spontaneous. But in general, you're going to see them, you know, really plan things out and make decisions or at least if they haven't, you know, surveilled the victim in advance, they at least have a specific type of MO when they see this type of person in this certain location, you know, then they're going to abduct them. But yeah, I mean, they're animals. A friend of mine, you know, kind of describes society as there's lambs and there's wolves and there's sheepdogs and you know, they're the wolves that are out there just kind of walking around looking for the easy prey. They're looking for that victim. And unfortunately, the majority of time that ends up being, you know, women and, you know, young children. I mean, it's. It's horrible to think of that people are out there like this, but they are, and they're unfortunately, you know, you talk about the number of how many serial killers are there. I mean, good Lord, who knows who, you know, who could. Who could fathom that number? I mean, if you go back and look at people again, Samuel Little killed 93 over 40 years. How many more are out there like him? How many truck drivers? How many, you know, pedophiles that are. That are running around doing that? I mean, it's really kind of scary to think about. I think that in law enforcement, I think we've gotten better, but the reality is we maybe touch the top of the iceberg. I mean, just like, barely. I mean, there's so much more out there.

[C]

Let's talk about your second case that's previewed on the show. Lie, Cheat and Kill. What can you tell us about that?

[B]

Yeah, Crystal McDowell, she was a very successful realtor, mother of two, located just outside of Houston, Texas, and she basically disappears in the hurricane, and they find her car a couple days later, and ultimately the sheriff's department at the time, Houston is flooded. They're completely destroyed by saving people in neighborhoods, dealing with flood issues, blocking roads and everything like that. And they asked the rangers to come in and help out on the case. Initially, there's three suspects that were developed, and I was called in and asked to help on the case.

[C]

And you obviously narrowed it down to the one killer. Am I wrong about that?

[B]

Yeah. You know, ultimately, we kind of sorted through a list of suspects and came up with one that. That I felt was more likely to. To have committed the crime. And then set up a series of interviews and started working with him. And it became apparent, I think, fairly early on that. That he committed the murder. It was then, you know, proving the case. And more than anything, we didn't have a body. And in Texas, you know, can you prosecute someone on a murder without a body? Yeah, you can go to trial and you can win a conviction on it as well. But in general, those cases, you know, get tossed. And, you know, our goal was to figure out any. If there was any chance that this woman was still alive, obviously to save her, and if not, to at least, you know, recover her remains and give her family some type of answers.

[C]

Were you able to do that?

[B]

Yeah, ultimately, you know, it's a really interesting case because the hurricane had wiped out Houston, there was no electricity, everything was flooded. There was no hotels. So I pretty much worked the case for a week out of. Out of my truck, heating up Beanie Weenies and a Bunsen burner on my tailgate for food a lot of times. But through a series of interviews through the week, the victim's ex husband ultimately confessed and then led us to the body. And we were able to recover her remains, which were in an area that was. Had been infested by alligators. So luckily we were able to get there before the body disappeared.

[C]

By the way, you didn't have alligators in Chicago, but you have them in Texas, right?

[B]

We did not. We only had bears in Chicago.

[C]

We're not talking about the football bears because there were years where they were not very good. You. This, this guy that killed this woman in the lie cheek kill case was not a serial killer. This was someone that was known to the victim.

[B]

Yeah, it was, you know, her ex husband and they were actually living together at the time of the murder. It was a rather bizarre relationship. He was, you know, he was kind of borderline sociopathic, psychopathic. There was no remorse. He. I felt strongly if he ever had the opportunity, even after being, you know, tried and convicted and sentenced to prison for me, pretty much the rest of his life, I'm convinced that if he had the opportunity to do the whole thing over again, he would. He was a different. He was a different nut. He was interesting. And, you know, in law enforcement, a lot of homicide investigations, I would say probably the majority of them that end up in. And confessions, it's based on someone feeling bad, not being able to sleep. And it's based on detectives talking to that person about their remorse. I mean, it's not human nature to kill someone. Right. We feel bad about that. And that generally is, you know, how most detectives get confessions. The difference is when you're dealing with, you know, sociopathic or psychopathic personalities, there's no moral compass, there's no remorse. I don't feel bad about anything. And that's really who Stephen McDowell was. He was this guy that didn't feel bad about what happened. So, yeah, it was very challenging.

[C]

We're talking about Jim Holland. He's retired Texas Ranger, originally from Chicago area, wound up in Texas. That's a long story, which we'll return to in a few moments. And he became a television star. He is a star of this series on Investigation Discovery Channel called Killer Confessions Case Files of a Texas Ranger. On Tuesday nights on Investigation Discovery Channel or ID Channel. Episodes available Stream On HBO Max. Their website is Investigation Discovery. When we return we're talking about long term and the effects on him and his family. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

[D]

Someone asked what's the catch? What's the cost? There is no cost for anything on the law enforcement talk radio show and podcast website letradio.com letradio.com again that's letradio.com.

[C]

Enter our conversation with Jim Holland on the law enforcement talk radio show. Jim is a retired Texas Ranger. He is the star of the television series on investigations. Every channel called Killer Confessions, Case files of a Texas Ranger on Tuesdays on Investigation Discovery channel as episodes available stream on HBO Max. Their website is Investigation Discovery. So Jim, how long you been retired now from the Texas Rangers?

[B]

I'm going on about three years now.

[C]

You're still a rookie? I've been retired since 92. I'm like I got hurt, retired very young and I was jokingly say that's when my problems always started. The reason I want to ask you is you investigated homicides. I was a patrol sergeant when I got hurt and retired I had a lot of homicides. I was not a homicide detective. I didn't spend a lot of time with the people that killers. But I carry around stuff that still bothers me and I'll be honest with my wife's like we're going out to dinner with so and so and so and so and whatever they do. You don't talk about this. I'm like, okay, I'm not the guy you want to invite to barbecues. I kind of feel like you may not be the guy you want to invite to barbecues either.

[B]

Yeah, you don't want to give me a beer and loosen me up.

[C]

I would imagine

[B]

try to avoid telling those stories. Definitely wouldn't be, wouldn't, wouldn't be what I need to do.

[C]

And I'm also very much self aware that and a lot of my guests, we laugh, we laugh and laugh. We say we're dinged up, we're damaged goods. It's not like we're useless. We know we're not useless, but we know we're not like we were 18. How would you describe yourself today?

[B]

Yeah, I mean I still try to stay involved, you know, do consulting, helping agencies, helping rangers, helping district attorneys offices. I try not to do interviews too often anymore, but I still step in the box and do interviews. You know, I think you can retire but you really have a difficult time completely stepping out of it. I think it's More of a transition it is. My take is people that are cops. I mean, real cops, people that love their job and really work hard, that, you know, it's a calling and it's a hard thing to step away from. And when you leave, you've got to find a way to fill that void. And generally, what I see is people still helping their community, whether they're volunteering or picking, you know, resources or doing things. It's always, you know, about helping others.

[C]

Well, that's one of the reasons why I did this radio show, because I felt I needed to find a platform for you to tell our stories. Because we don't get a lot of publicity, we don't talk. And by the way, we've relied on the media for long, far too long to tell our stories. And now they're so biased. I'm close. The Truth and the ID Channel and the Investigation Coverage Channel is one of the few that really gets it as close as possible. Before we get into your journey, I agree with you wholeheartedly. You gotta find something else to do. But I firmly believe that policing is for the younger people. How would you describe yourself?

[B]

I think. Well, number one, I think 110%, you're correct. It's a young person's game. I mean, I can't imagine being out on patrol or being on the street in my late 40s or 50s. I mean, there's a shot, and I think there's a shelf life on the opposite end of that for homicide people. And that's more of the shelf life is involving your brain and what you can endure and what you can take and how long you can kind of stay standing in the murky water. Some of these rooms. People ask me what it's like afterward, and I talk about if there was a bleach that you could use to sterilize your brain to remove these things, that would be a really good thing. Because, I mean, there's a drawer, right? And someone opens it up and you look in and, you know, there's no going back from that point. You don't erase these things. Homicide scenes, kid scenes. I mean, that stuff that you just never comes out of your brain, you gotta. You gotta figure out a way to deal with it.

[C]

If there was a. Some detergent you could scrub your brain, I'd be first in line for that. And by the way, what does help me is getting old. I forget a lot of things, but they're never truly totally gone. Sometimes they show up when I don't want them to.

[B]

Yeah, you Know, that's with me if, you know, it's interesting because people ask me when, when I was a ranger, well, how did you deal with it? I mean, you went home at night, how did you sleep? How would, how did you deal with it the next day? The reality is I was so busy I didn't have time to deal with it because it was, you know, from one murder to the next, one scene to the next. I mean, it was just nonstop. There was, there was never downtime. The danger with retirement is, you know, after 27 years you have your first downtime. And I think that's when it starts sinking back in. And I actually worried about that a little bit when I retired. You know, if I, if I slow down and these things come back into my head. I mean, there's just things that you, you don't want to relive and there's things that you don't want to think about again. But ye, I mean, it's, it's impossible to stop and generally it's mind numbing stuff. You're out driving somewhere and not thinking about anything and all of a sudden something pops back.

[C]

Right. And by the way, I purposely avoid a lot of dashcam videos, a lot of police videos. And I did one recently for a radio interview and I told the guy I don't watch these because quite often it takes me right back and it's, it takes a long time to return to my center. But I did watch his video for the sake of the interview. So there's things I do find yourself doing things differently. And I'm getting into how does one make the jump from policing into being a television star and talking about it.

[B]

I mean, I think in a way that's part of the, well, twofold. I mean, one, I think it's part of the healing process. I mean, you're, you know, you, you have things that you're, that you've lived through. But I think more importantly it's, it's part of, you know, why I became a police officer, which was helping others. And to me, you know, in what we see in kind of polarized America today is I think there's, you know, a far left side and a far right side. And unfortunately, law enforcement tends to be on the wrong side a lot of times, or at least captured in the press. But I want people to understand that, you know, cops are out there doing good. There's evil, there is bad people, there is serial killers, there's murderers, there's child molesters, there's, there's Horrible, horrible people out there. And law enforcement is there to help us and get these evil people, you know, off the street. So for me, this is a way to make sure that people don't forget about the victims and people don't forget about the families and they don't forget about the killers. And I don't mean in a good way, but I mean, you know where your kids are going, you watch them, you know who they're with. You, you have perceptual vigilance. If you're a girl and you know you want to go running, you make sure that it's in a well lighted area. You go with people, you have a body alarm, you carry mace, you do something that will know, give you some type of defense. But as horrible as it sounds, I want people to realize that there's predators out there, there's people that are trying to hurt you, there's people that are trying to kill you. And yeah, I think we need to be vigilant against them and we need to support law enforcement in their functions and their actions to apprehend these people. We need more money for forensic genealogy, we need more money for DNA testing, we need more money to train homicide investigators better.

[C]

And we're going to your television series now. It's called Killer Confessions. Case Files of a Texas Ranger. Tuesdays on Investigation, Discovery Channel episodes available to stream on hbo. Max, by the way, I can't tell you the last time I talked to someone. You might be the first time in almost 10 years I thought someone is on HBO. Max.

[B]

Well, hopefully you subscribe and that's a good thing.

[C]

Yeah, well, the thing is, my wife is probably howling if I said this right now. Howling with laughter. I don't think of myself as a big deal, but. And I have, I jokingly say I have a wife who brings you back down to earth. Do you have that same thing in your life so you don't wind up becoming too big headed?

[B]

Yeah, I mean I think I'm completely and totally surrounded by people like that, you know, especially rangers. The men and women that I work with in law enforcement, I mean, yeah, they're pretty good at keeping you grounded. I mean, you know how cops are.

[C]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Ripping on each other.

[C]

They're always best.

[B]

They're busy. You know what more that people work to make sure that your head stays down on the ground.

[C]

Well, Jim, thanks for your service and thanks to talking about on the law enforcement talk radio show. Both very much appreciated. By the way, this is Jim Holland, retired Texas Ranger. He's star of the Investigation Discovery series Killer Confessions Case Files of a Texas Ranger on Tuesdays on ID Channel Episodes available to stream on HBO Max and the website is investigation discovery.com Again, thanks for your service and thanks for talking about a law Enforcement Talk ratio. Both very much appreciated.

[B]

Hey, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

[C]

Of all the radio stations in the United States, there are no other shows like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and on Facebook there's only one official page. Do a search on Facebook for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and be sure to like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show Facebook page. I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on Numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of Law Enforcement Talk Raider show and Podcast. Until then, this is John J. Wiley. See ya. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening. Listening.