Her College Son’s Death: A Much Needed and Tough Conversation

Summary

Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories
Episode: Her College Son’s Death: A Much Needed and Tough Conversation
Date: October 22, 2025
Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: Melissa Bottorf Airey

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Episode Overview

This emotional and deeply personal episode brings together host John “Jay” Wiley and guest Melissa Bottorf Airey, a certified master grief coach, author, and host of "The Leftover Pieces" podcast. Melissa shares the harrowing story of her son Alex’s death by suicide at age 21 while in college. The discussion explores the silent and complicated nature of suicide loss, the inadequacies in common warning signs, the shattering impact on families, and Melissa’s journey toward finding purpose through helping others in similar situations.

Melissa courageously speaks about the trauma of losing a child to suicide, the overwhelming grief that follows, and her path to becoming a support for other survivors. The episode also delves into societal misconceptions, unhelpful reactions from others, and the importance of genuine support and community. The conversation is honest, raw, and ultimately hopeful, highlighting how trauma can lead to meaningful connections and new purpose.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction and Context (00:30 - 03:09)

• John J. Wiley introduces Melissa Bottorf Airey and previews the difficult conversation about losing her son to suicide.
• Melissa’s background as a grief coach and host of "The Leftover Pieces" podcast, which focuses on suicide loss and destigmatizing grief.

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Alex’s Story and Warning Signs (03:09 – 09:26)

• Melissa recounts Alex’s life: a high-achieving student, athlete, fraternity leader, and college junior.
• She emphasizes the lack of typical "red flag” warning signs before Alex’s death:
  • "His last semester, the spring semester before he died, he was struggling a bit... but there was nothing to indicate it was of that level." (Melissa, 06:15)
  • “All the things we’re taught to look for... really weren’t there.” (John, 07:28)
• Melissa notes retrospectively that there may have been subtle concerns missed, but nothing overt.
• The pandemic’s impact on suicide rates is discussed, with Melissa expressing concern for a future “secondary pandemic of suicide loss.” (04:17)

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The Day of the Loss (12:05 – 15:47)

• Melissa describes the traumatic way she found out about Alex’s death; her younger son had to deliver the devastating news after hearing from Alex’s friend.
  • “He looked me in the eyes and said, ‘Mom, Alex is dead.’ And I don’t remember a whole lot after that, but that was how we found out.” (Melissa, 13:00)
• Both John and Melissa acknowledge the burden this places on family, especially her younger son being forced into the role of messenger.
  • “That’s a horrible thing... but I can’t imagine your teenage son having to bear that burden.” (John, 14:19)

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Grief, Guilt, and Coping (16:34 – 18:10; 21:25 – 23:53; 36:10 – 37:12)

• John debunks the saying “time heals all wounds” and reflects that trauma changes but doesn’t disappear with time.
  • “I don’t believe that’s true anymore… I just know I handle it differently.” (John, 16:36)
• Melissa contrasts losing her father to cancer with losing her son:
  • "I kind of thought I knew grief... but that doesn’t even live in the same wheelhouse of this.” (Melissa, 16:50)
• She speaks candidly about survivor’s guilt:
  • “A little bit, but only because I’m his mother... In all reality, knowing what I know... I really feel like there’s nothing different I could have done.” (Melissa, 36:24)

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Surviving the First Years & Life After Loss (21:25 – 23:20; 35:41 – 36:10)

• The first year was about survival; shock dominated life.
  • “I was surviving... I thought I was going to figure out how to survive this.” (Melissa, 21:29)
• Major life changes: Melissa and her husband sold their home, businesses, and traveled.
• She explains metaphorically “sitting among all of these pieces of my life and my heart” and ultimately deciding to create a podcast and community she herself needed but couldn’t find.
  • "Maybe I'll create what I can't find." (Melissa, 22:56)

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Finding Help, Building Community, and the Problem with Outsider Support (23:20 – 27:14)

• Melissa emphasizes the unmatched power of support from people who have suffered similar losses.
  • “There was absolutely nothing like somebody who's been there, is walking the same journey on some level that you are.” (Melissa, 23:53)
• She underscores the limitations of therapists who have not personally experienced a similar loss.
• The conversation touches on unwanted advice and insensitive comments received by survivors.
  • “You still have two other children” – a common but deeply painful phrase (Melissa, 25:10)
  • Both agree on the importance of using these moments to educate, but acknowledge human limitations.

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Abandonment and Shifting Relationships (27:14 – 29:22)

• Melissa discusses the reorganization of one’s social life post-loss, as some friends withdraw out of fear or inability to cope.
  • “Some people... don't have the wheelhouse for it... I actually have experienced many, many people who just literally kind of disappeared out of my life.” (Melissa, 27:22)
• John shares his own experience feeling unable to support a friend after a police officer’s death, echoing the fear many feel about saying the wrong thing.

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Marriage and Coping as a Couple (31:01 – 34:33)

• Melissa describes the resilience and uniqueness of her marriage in the aftermath of loss.
  • Her husband is not Alex’s biological father or step-parent, but provided steadfast support.
  • “I could never have imagined somebody weathering this with somebody the way he's weathered it with me.” (Melissa, 32:39)
• Both agree that tragedy often tests or breaks relationships, and Melissa acknowledges her gratitude for her husband but also her pragmatic outlook on how not all couples manage to survive such trauma.

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Embracing a New Life and Purpose (35:23 – 39:56)

• John and Melissa discuss coming to terms with “the life you never wanted,” and the necessity of building a new normal after tragedy.
  • “How do I build a life in spite of?” (John, 35:41)
  • “You have to learn to embrace the life that you never wanted.” (Melissa, 35:41)
• Melissa is candid about her motivations for starting her podcast and community: both to help others and heal herself.
  • “I'd be 100% lying if I didn't say when I started the podcast... on some level it was as selfish as it was selfless.” (Melissa, 38:23)

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On Support, Resources, and Taking Action (39:37 – 40:38)

• The episode closes with practical points on where to find Melissa’s work:
  • Podcast: “The Leftover Pieces: The Suicide Loss Conversations” – available on all major platforms.
  • Website: theleftoverpieces.com, offering resources and communities for survivors.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On hidden struggles:
  “By all indications there was absolutely the opposite of [suicidal warning signs] going on.”
  —Melissa Bottorf Airey, 07:35

• On grief’s complexity:
  “I kind of thought I knew grief... but that doesn't even live in the same wheelhouse of this.”
  —Melissa Bottorf Airey, 16:50

• On survivor’s guilt:
  “I really feel like there’s nothing different I could have done.”
  —Melissa Bottorf Airey, 36:24

• On the unique bond between those with shared loss:
  “No one can help someone out of a dark hole like someone who’s been in that dark hole.”
  —John J. Wiley, 23:20

• On well-meaning but painful remarks:
  “How about, ‘You still have two other children?’”
  —Melissa Bottorf Airey, 25:10

• On rebuilding after loss:
  “You have to learn to embrace the life that you never wanted.”
  —Melissa Bottorf Airey, 35:41

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Melissa’s motivation and background: 03:09
• Alex’s struggles and the absence of red flags: 04:49–08:25
• The day of the loss and family trauma: 12:05–15:47
• The inadequacy of typical advice and social withdrawal: 23:20–29:22
• Marriage impact and family dynamics post-loss: 31:01–34:33
• Building a new purpose, helping others: 35:41–40:04
• Resources and where to find help: 40:04–40:38

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Conclusion

Melissa Bottorf Airey’s story, told with remarkable honesty and compassion, offers invaluable perspective for anyone touched by suicide, whether directly or indirectly. The episode stands as a testament to the strength found in vulnerability and community, the often invisible nature of mental health struggles, and the enduring process of grief.

Listeners are left with a sense of hope—that, with support, it is possible to move forward and even find new meaning after unimaginable loss.

Resources cited:

• theleftoverpieces.com – grief resources, support communities, and the podcast
• “The Leftover Pieces: Suicide Loss Conversations” – available on major podcast platforms

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Transcript

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

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[John J. Wiley]

She's here to talk about one of the most horrific incidents any parent can imagine. The death of her son by suicide, the impacts on her her family, and how she uses her pain and experience to help others. Welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. In the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, the realities of investigating crimes, plus those who have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crime share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website, letradio.com and also like us on Facebook, search for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show of all the radio stations in the United States, there are no other shows like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and on Facebook there's only one official page. Do us search on Facebook for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and be sure to like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show Facebook page. Calling us from Florida, we have Melissa Bottorf airey on the phone. Melissa I met in the Clubhouse Drop in audio chat app by the way. Great free social audio platform. You can look for me. John Millichal J. Wiley W I L E y R@LetradiosHow Melissa is a grief coach. She's also an author. She's a podcaster, host of the Leftover Pieces podcast and you'll understand why it's named that in just a moment. First, Melissa, thanks so much for being a guest on a law enforcement show. Very much appreciated John.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Thanks for having me.

[John J. Wiley]

It's been difficult. It's a very, very difficult conversation to have and I say this all the time. Some of my guests are easy, others the topics are there's no way sugar coating it and this is one of them. This is just horrendous. So I'm glad you are finally able to talk about it. We're here to talk about the death by suicide of your 21 year old son Alex and the impact it had on you, your family and what you've done afterwards. There's a Lot of inspiration in the story. There's a lot of hardship, a lot of grief. But grief is a funny thing we handle differently. I handle things differently now that I did 20 years ago. My father died, you know, 23 some odd years ago. So there's no one way of handling grief. Before we get into the conversation, Melissa, you're in Florida now and you kind of dedicated your life to helping other people going through this process.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yep. So, yeah, as you TED, about five and a half years ago, I lost my son Alex, who was 21 at college, to suicide. He died by suicide on August 7th of 2016. And now I have a podcast called the Leftover Suicide Loss Conversations. And that's what I do. I have hard conversations with other lost survivors and sometimes people that are just in the adjacent space to suicide laws, you know, experts and of the such all around the suicide law space for the idea of bringing attention to the mental health and wellness of all of us and destigmatizing not only suicide and suicide loss, but grief in itself.

[John J. Wiley]

And what motivated you to do this is your own loss. And there's no really comfortable way of talking about this. And I'll be honest with you, Melissa, I don't know of anyone that's not been affected by suicide, whether it be direct family members or extended family members. But everyone I know has been affected.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yeah, it's definitely. It's something that I would say probably even. Well, probably even five years ago before we lost Alex, but definitely a decade ago, you probably couldn't have said that. The last five years we've seen a steady increase, for sure. The last decade, absolutely. And the statistics aren't out yet for the pandemic. So I'm pretty sure we're going to see a secondary pandemic of suicide loss. Inside of the pandemic, was there anything.

[John J. Wiley]

On your radar to let you know that this was even a possibility with your son?

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

That's a. Like a lot of things with suicide, it's a complicated answer. The initial, the initial reaction and definitely a handful of years ago would have been no, there was really nothing on our radar. Alex did not have a history of mental health issues. He hadn't been treated for depression or anything of the sorts. He was a college student. He was at a rigorous academic college. He was in a fraternity. He had been an athlete in high school and graduated with an advanced diploma, and so was doing all the things. And his last semester, the spring semester before he died, he was struggling a bit. He let me know, we talked about it. He had had a girlfriend, serious girlfriend, the year before he was in the fraternity, so got a little bit behind the eight ball in his grades because, you know, too much fun sometimes. And he was in leadership with a fraternity as well. So he had a lot on his plate. He was working and doing all the things. And I always just look at it as I felt like he had life just kind of catching up with him at 21 years. Was. Had a lot going on and had a lot happen and was getting overwhelmed and that's quite a transitional age to be at. And so even though we knew he was struggling a bit and he had said he had gone to the student counseling center and had seen someone a few times, he indicated that he was, you know, it was under control. There was no eminent threats or anything. There was nothing to indicate it was of that level. And then Johnny came home that summer and he typically, he had moved away to college and basically moved out of the house at that point. He moved and lived there full time, worked there in the summer. It was a college, a couple hours from home. And that summer his business that he worked at was closing. So he went ahead and came home for five weeks. And so I had the opportunity to spend. He was in my house staying with me and had that time to spend with him and kind of, you know, put the mom eye on him and feel like he really was okay. Because regardless of whether you'd had any history, mental health issues, when your kid's struggling and seeing a counselor, you know, going through stuff, you're just on top of it. You're aware of it as a mom. And there wasn't anything to indicate that there was any reason to worry. He actually seemed really good when he was home and we talked right before he went back.

[John J. Wiley]

So all the things we're supposed, we're taught to look for, the typical red flags, they really weren't there.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

No, all of the things that we're taught to look for, like, you know, are they isolating, are they not forward thinking, are they talking in defeatist ways? You know, there's all these things that you are supposed to look for as somebody to show that they. They might be suicidal. And those are all legitimate things. Definitely. People do show the signs of those. Alex was not when he left to go back to college, eight days before we found out he was gone. It was me and him and we were packing his car and he was in a great mood and mom started to cry and he said, why are you crying, Mom? And I said, well, because I've had you here for five weeks and I'm kind of used to seeing you, you know, just a mom thing. And he kind of laughed and said, I'll be home in two weeks, mom, I'm coming back to see my friend. And there. So by all indications there was absolutely the opposite of that going on.

[John J. Wiley]

And that's the thing that I think a lot of people, I'm a parent too. My daughters are in their 30s now, so that means I'm a geezer. But you always worry. I mean I as a parent always worry. Especially when teenagers, you're going through the so called and I'm air quoting the angst years and all that Stu. And there's things you look for and when you don't see those signs, it's like I can read the sigh of relief, everything's going okay. I don't have to worry. There's always something to worry about.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Right?

[John J. Wiley]

But that doesn't mean that the worst case scenario can't happen.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Absolutely. And as we came to find out, because, you know, and now that's why I say, you know, looking back, initially I would have said no, there was nothing. But in hindsight, you know, I know more now and I know that there probably were things to worry about and you know, not the smallest of which was he was going back to a situation that when he left wasn't great with some of his, you know, fraternity people.

[John J. Wiley]

Let's take a short break. We are talking with Melissa Botorf Airy on the law enforcement show. Talking about a really tough topic, suicide, death of her son Alex. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. You know, we used to have an app and it was very popular app. And then guess what? We couldn't hold a candle through our Facebook presence. How many people have the mobile Facebook app already installed on their phone? How many people use it on their computer? Make sure you follow us, make sure you like us on our Facebook page. Just search for law enforcement, talk radio show and podcast and be sure to send us a comment to one of the posts. Best of all, it's 100% free.

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[John J. Wiley]

After a conversation with Melissa Bodorf Arie on a law enforcement show, Melissa's son Alex died by suicide at the age of 21 while in college. She's courageously talking about it, which I don't know, I could do. Melissa and you, by the way, I'll give you a little compliment. You are doing this in exceptionally powerful manner. Where I'd be broken down. Even all these years, it's things I still can't talk about and not get emotional. So if you do, I understand it. Melissa is also a podcaster. She's a certified master grief coach name. Her podcast is the Leftover Pieces podcast. She's an author. Website is the leftoverpieces.com with a break we're talking about, you didn't see the classic red flag signs that there was a problem. In hindsight, you look back, say, oh, maybe this, maybe that. I understand hindsight's 20 20, and we all do the best we can. None of us are Superman, Superwoman. We're not God, whatever it might be. We can't and I hate this. We can't protect those closest to us all the time, even though we want to.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Correct.

[John J. Wiley]

And unfortunately, that's what happened with you. Your son was at home and went back to college. Life was going well. Things are going great. I'll see you in a couple of weeks, Mom. And then you got some tragic news.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yeah, we did. And his college was two and a half hours away from where we were in Kansas City. So it was when he was found. The chain of information would have been obviously for the police in that town to then notify the police in our town and then come to us. And that isn't the way it happened with us. Because of a college environment, I would guess several of the people closest to Alex became worried that we would find out via social media before we were notified. And my youngest son, which is a couple years younger than Alex, who was still had just graduated from high school. So he was in between. He was about to go to college. Was actually. It was a Sunday, just afternoon, and he was headed to rock climb with a few friends and got a phone call. And it was Alex's best friend at college letting him know what had happened. And he was about a mile from the house and he said he doesn't really recall exactly how long he sat in the parking lot of an old Kmart. But then he turned around and doesn't remember the drive home, but ended up in my bedroom. Where I had been chatting with my husband, who was cleaning the bathroom, and I was doing some things, and I had actually sat back down just a few minutes before and told him I wasn't sure what was wrong, but that something. He said, are you sick? And I said, no, I just don't. I don't feel right was a word that I used. And a few minutes later, Parker walked through the room and he stood there and I could just tell, you know, when something's wrong with your kid. And I immediately said, did you get in an accident? Which he obviously looked fine, but the look on his face was something I had never seen. And I came around to him and he looked me in the eyes and said, mom, Alex is dead. And I don't remember a whole lot after that, but that was how we found out. And to this day, that that's a very painful part for me as a mom.

[John J. Wiley]

Yeah.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

That my youngest son had to be the one to tell me because that has to be an exercise for him.

[John J. Wiley]

That's a horrible thing. It's one of the. That we were trained to do and there's no easy way of doing it. And look, I got phone calls. Call the dispatcher at 2:00 in the morning, and they say you have to go to this house, this address, locate so and so. And if you find them, tell them their son died in a car accident or whatever it might be. We did those notifications face to face whenever possible, and there's really no easy way of doing. And the reactions you get from people is. Is hard, the whole range of emotions. And at 21, 22, it's horrifying. I think Becca had to do that. But I can't imagine your teenage son having to bear that burden of responsibility of telling you.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

I know, Me too. You know, in the moment, of course, I was just in shock and. But now in, you know, retrospect, it's been something that, you know, him and I have talked about it. Obviously, it's not something we haven't spoken about, but it's. It's one of the additional layers of heartache that I still bear, that he had to be the one to do that.

[John J. Wiley]

And I've got goosebumps when you tell me that he's the one had to tell you. And when you talk to him, please tell him I said, thank you. I know that's an incomplete statement. It doesn't really signify what I feel. And I don't know him. I don't know Alex. But I can begin to imagine As a parent, what he had to go through, and as a retired police officer, what he had to go through, because that's just horrifying.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yeah.

[John J. Wiley]

All right, let's take a deep breath here for a second, because with the goosebumps and me getting emotional, remembering I was on scene for many, many deaths that were suicides. And there's no explaining it. There's no rational way of putting in its proper place. Look, sometimes I try my best just to shove it in the back of the file cabinet of my brain and never deal with it again. But you obviously had no choice. You found out your son had died by suicide. And at that point, to be honest, I know people want to make a big deal out of death by suicide. Or was it accident, or was it illness, or was it the person's still gone and they're still lost and a huge part of your family and that never goes away.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Absolutely.

[John J. Wiley]

One of the things I say is my father died of cancer. I looked at back now I think it's 28 years ago. There's an old saying, time heals all wounds. I don't believe that's true anymore. I just know I handle it differently. I get more used to it, but the ache is still there.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yeah, I lost my dad 22 years ago. He was the ripe old age of 48 when I lost him to cancer. And I kind of thought I knew grief. I had lost him and, you know, at a very young age. I thought he'd be around for great grandkids, let alone, you know, just grandkids. And he was gone and diagnosed and gone within four months, like I said, at the age of 48. And I was very, very close to him, but that doesn't even live in the same wheelhouse of this. So I didn't exactly know all grief, you know, it is all different.

[John J. Wiley]

And there's nothing to prepare you for this. So the impact had to be. And I almost say. I don't say had is in past tense, because I'm sure there's grades of, hey, I still got to get along. But the impact had to have been just unexplainable.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yeah, it really was. I mean, I'll just remove the suicide because for the sake of losing a child, it's like you said, it's a death. He died. So removing the complication, you know, that was suicide. I lost my child. And there's nothing that prepares a parent for that. We prepare for a lot of things in life, and we know we'll face a lot of things, but that one's not. We just choose to put that one off to say, that won't happen. We'll go before they go.

[John J. Wiley]

That's exactly the way I look at things. The natural life progression is. And this is how selfish I am. I'm a few years older than my wife. I want to go before her and I don't want to be without her. But the thought of having one of my daughters die before me, I think every parent has got to have that as a fear somewhere deep down inside. And how the ones that have gone through deaths of their children, whether it be by disease, accident, violent crime, suicide, doesn't matter the manner, the impact has just got to be beyond words. We're talking with Melissa Botorf Arie. She is a certified master grief coach. She's a host of Leftover Pieces podcast and also an author. Her website is the leftoverpieces.com we're gonna take a short break. We return, we're gonna talk about the impact that this trauma had on her and what she did to build her life afterwards as law enforcement. Joe, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. I'm gonna let you in a little secret that's been a game changer for me with social media. You can get details at let pop up. It's a redirect. L E T P O P s dot com. It's called chatbots. There are meta partners, Facebook, Instagram, Telegram, WhatsApp and soon to be TikTok. You can turn those people that visit and engage with your content and social media into consumers and then sometimes customers and you can market to them, get details. Best of all, you get started for free. Let pops.com that's, that's letpops.com Again, it's L E T P O P S dot com.

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[John J. Wiley]

Return to conversation with Melissa Bodorf Ary calling us from Orlando, Florida area, Central Florida area. She is a certified master grief coach. She's author, she's a host of the Leftover Pieces podcast. The website is the Leftover Pieces And I met Melissa quite a while ago on the Clubhouse Drop in audio chat app, which is free. Get it. It's an awesome program. Look for me, Follow me. My name is John, middle initial J. Wiley W I L E Y or search for E T Radio show. And we talked quite a while ago about her coming on the show to talk about her story. Long story short, her 21 year old son Alex was in college. He died by suicide. And before we break, we started talking about the impact on you. And I know there's stages. So when you found out, talk about what you went through for the next couple years.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yeah, absolutely. So the first couple of years, especially the first year, you really are just in shock, John, and you really do the best that you can. I've always been someone who pulls everything together and takes charge and all that. So on the exterior, I was doing, going through the motions and appearing to be mostly okay to people that didn't know I was absolutely not okay. I was surviving. And that's what I thought I was going to do was figure out how to survive this. And it honestly took a couple of years and we made some major life changes because everything looked different. We were wearing lenses that we never imagined we would have, and so everything looked different through them. And in the course of those decisions, decided to sell our home and everything in it and the businesses. And my husband and I traveled for a few years. And so, you know, kind of fast forward to about four years. And so about a year and a half ago, I had made the decision that I was going to follow my heart and try to help others pick up the pieces because that's what I had been doing for four years. I had kind of stripped everything down to the point that I just, I tell people I was metaphorically sitting among all of these pieces of my life and my heart and had to figure out what now. And it was hard. And I didn't find a lot of the resources I wish I could have. And I couldn't connect with the right podcaster. I found some wonderful people in the grief and loss space, but nobody in the suicide loss space who had lost a child. And I kind of just one day said, maybe I'll create what I can't find. And that's kind of where the idea for the podcast and then eventually the communities and things that I'm building now came from, is wanting to be able to literally help other people pick up the pieces.

[John J. Wiley]

And when you talk about it now, it sounds as if you have a clearly defined mission. And I'M a firm believer and no one can help like people who've been through similar circumstances. There are people who really want to help and I'm not saying a negative, they're therapists, they're counselors, there's psychologists, whatever that have read about these things in books and I appreciate their efforts. But if they haven't gone through it, they don't know. And no one can help someone out of a dark hole like someone who's been in that dark hole.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Correct. And actually the power of that came to me the first time I lock eyes with another mom who had lost her child to suicide. And it was kind of the power in that moment that I realized there was absolutely nothing like somebody who's been there is walking the same journey on some level that you are and what they bring to the table. And at one point I looked for therapy. I know I fast forwarded to four years, but there was obviously a lot that went on in that four years and I was, there's still a lot that goes on. This isn't, this isn't easy by any stretch of the imagination. But you know, I made a choice at some point to stand up and do the work. And it's not the same to try to find a therapist. Actually when I went looking, my qualifications were they have to have lost a child and, or lost somebody to suicide and I couldn't find anyone. And so yeah, there's something to be said for school hard knocks, unfortunately.

[John J. Wiley]

And I'm sure there's certain things you heard and my circumstances are drastically different. I don't want to compare the two, say they're equal. How about this one? Did you hear, hey, try not to be so angry.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yeah, heard lots of things. How about, how about you still have two other children?

[John J. Wiley]

And how do you reply to that? What do people say? I mean, I know how I'd reply. It would be brutally offensive and I'd be all over the headlines of can you believe what this guy said?

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yeah, the thing you just, you become, they take the, after the first few times and it takes your breath away and you possibly respond out of emotion. You do learn to take those things in and understand that they're, they're literally coming from genuine ignorance. And that's actually a good thing in this situation. So I try to take the high road and use the situation to educate people the best I can and, but I also don't let them, you know, you can't let people get away with behaving badly. You do have to sometimes say you Know, this is. This would be a better thing to say, or let me explain why you're.

[John J. Wiley]

A lot nicer about it than I am. Melissa, I'll tell you right now because I'm a firm believer and it's taken me a long time to get to this point, but people know exactly how they're behaving. And I know that people have good intentions. However, the road do you know where is paved with good intentions. So when people act in a way that is totally unacceptable, I've gotten. My wife is like, now just relax. Put the muzzle on. You don't have to respond. And I'm like, oh, yeah, and another thing. And. And I just unload on them. And I'm trying not to be that guy.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Well, it's. Sometimes it's easier said than done, but, you know, I. Something unique happened, along with many other things when I lost Alex. But I've become an extremely empathetic person. So a lot of times I'm able to see it from the fact that, you know, maybe they're just coming from a place of clearly just not understanding. And, you know, like I said, that's unfortunately a good thing for them that they don't understand. So. But, you know, I'm not going to pretend like I haven't ever said something not nice to somebody who was extremely rude.

[John J. Wiley]

Did you find that people that were friends and relatives were so afraid of saying the wrong thing that they just abandoned you, wouldn't talk to you?

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yeah, that's a huge thing. That's one of the reasons that grievers need other grievers and they need a community, and they need people that understand, because there's a definite. I call it a reorganization of your life and social structure. And you don't keep all your friends and you don't keep all the people. And some of the ones you do, you have to learn to put in a different place in your life. Because this is not something everybody can handle, John. It just isn't. Some people, as much as you want them to, don't have the wheelhouse for it. And it's really sad that, you know, but I actually have experienced many, many people who just literally kind of disappeared out of my life. And I decided that it was because I represent the very worst thing they could possibly ever imagine as a parent. And so if they don't have to deal with me, they kind of don't have to face that possibility.

[John J. Wiley]

I had a good friend, she's still a very good friend, and her husband worked for me. I was A sergeant. He was a police officer in my squad. I wound up transferring to another district and a couple months later he wound up being shot and killed and in the line of duty. And one of the things that happened, Melissa, was every time I'd see her and talk to her, I was so afraid of saying and doing the wrong thing that I would be, and I say this with full understanding of the term, I was a coward. I would rather crawl through a wall or do anything other than be in front of her and talk to her. I wouldn't talk to her at all about fishing, about anything because I was scared to death and what she said to me. And I had her, her name's Kim. I had her on an episode of the show early. She said, you can't make things worse. The worst has already happened. Talk to me about football, talk to me about racing, talk to me about fishing, talk about anything. And if I need to talk to you about Will or Billy as his name was, I will talk to you about him. And if I don't want to talk about him, I'll let you know. I don't want to talk about him and I'm not comfortable talking about him.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Right.

[John J. Wiley]

And I think that's what we need to do is, is start treating people the way we. Yes, the worst happened, the unimaginable happened to you, your family, your son, your. Your other son. And you're here to talk about it. This is law enforcement show. We are talking about Melissa Botorf Arie. She is the host of Leftover Pieces podcast. She's also an author certified master grief coach. Her website is a leftover pieces.com here talking about the death by suicide of her 21 year old son Alex. There's so much more to talk about. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

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[Melissa Botorf Airey]

The law enforcement talk radio show website.

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[Melissa Botorf Airey]

The website is letradio.com that's letradio.com where free means free.

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[John J. Wiley]

Station with Melissa Botorf Airey on the Law Enforcement Show. Melissa is a certified master grief coach. She's author podcast. Her host of the Leftover Pieces podcast website is leftoverpieces.com her 21 year old son Alex died by suicide in College in 2016. And I appreciate you so much talking about this stuff. We met on Clubhouse Drop in audio chat app and it's taken quite a long time to get this to happen. One of the there's so many questions I have and I'm walking on eggshells because it's such a tough topic. But quite often I hear couples have been married for any kind of period of time and they go through the death of a child and doesn't matter the cause and it oftentimes destroys a relationship. You mentioned earlier, you and your husband moved, you sold the house, you traveled, you did other things. I got to tell you, my hat's off to you that you're still successfully married.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Well, first of all, again, just thanks for being willing to have this hard conversation. Everybody's not willing to do that, so I appreciate that fact and don't want to miss saying that again. John, but you're right, lots of relationships like we were talking about before are difficult and redefined and some are lost and some are gained. But to bring up the primary relationship, marriage, I am extremely fortunate. I want to preface it by saying my husband is not my children's father. So I think for us and that can be a good and a bad I've had talked to many grievers who've lost children who that actually was a detriment because the person had no my husband never had biological children so and he didn't raise mine. He came on the scene when my youngest was in high school, just the last couple of years. And you know, I have the good fortune of this being someone I know very well. He was an extremely serious almost husband 20 plus years ago in college and then we parted ways and had a life and then came back together now almost a decade ago. But so he's, you know, he's a love of my life, came around full circle but he did not raise my kids and that could have been a detriment to us. And for whatever reason he is just an amazing human and I could never have imagined somebody weathering this with somebody the way he's weathered it with me. So thankfully I have a very good experience where that's concerned. I'm not sure where I would be without him as the rock he's been, but I know it's extremely not that same way with everybody. You're right. It's a very difficult thing to weather this loss anyway. And everybody does it so individually that for two people that have lost the. Their child, if it was both of their child, it's very complicated, and it does cause a lot of issues.

[John J. Wiley]

I appreciate you saying the things about him that you have. You need to give yourself a little credit as well, because I'm sure there are many times you want to say, look, I'm packing up and I'm leaving. I'm just. I can't do this anymore.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yeah, well, I tried to give him a pass for sure for a few years because I said, this isn't what you signed up for. You signed up for us to have our son in years together and to do, you know, the fun things. And this is far from that. And it's. Yeah, it would be easier to not do it, to be complicated. Things are hard. And so.

[John J. Wiley]

Yeah, there's also no escaping this. There's an old saying that a friend of mine used to have. Look, if you put a meatball on a bus and you take him from Baltimore to San Diego, when he gets off the bus, he's still the meatball. You can change your location. You're still going to deal with things you've got going on. And you have a. You got a heavy hand here. There's no denying that. I get staged in my life where I think to myself, man, I just want to be in Ireland. I don't want to be here anymore. I want to escape this part of my life. I want to escape this. I want to go somewhere where it's calm, it's peaceful, and I don't have to think about these things. And, yes, I call that wanderlust. Yes, I would love. There's an old show on television, the Newhart shows, somewhere in Vermont, and nothing bad ever happened there. I said, I want to go there. That's where I want to live. But that doesn't happen in reality because I take me wherever I go.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yep.

[John J. Wiley]

And you take you and this horrible hand you and your family have been dealt wherever you go. So you're left with a couple choices. How do I build a life afterwards? Not the life you want, because this isn't what you planned on. Not a better life. It's, how do I build a life in spite of.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Right. How do I build a new life? The one I didn't plan on the one I never wanted. Right. And that's what we say a lot. You have to learn to embrace the life that you never wanted. And you have choices, you know, you. That's the first step. But then you have. Then you are able to get to a place where, I mean, you can embrace the life that you have. It doesn't mean you wouldn't change it if you could. But we aren't given that option. Right? So.

[John J. Wiley]

And there's no do overs. There's no, you know, hindsight. We said earlier, It's 2020. If I'd only known, I'd have done this. And that brings up a good question. Do you have any survivor's guilt? I should have, coulda, woulda, I.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

A little bit, but only because I'm his mother and I say that meaning I'm just gonna guess that most of the mothers that would be listening would understand. And as a parent, you understand parents guilt. Right. So I feel Alex knew how much I loved him. He had a million people in his life that loved him. He was very well supported. I don't feel, you know, in the darkest of moments, you go through the. If I hadn't done this and if I hadn't done that, going all the way back to, you know, their childhood. But that's just. That's just grief. In all reality, knowing what I know and everything, I really feel like there's nothing different I could have done.

[John J. Wiley]

In reality, there really isn't. Because none of us, like you said earlier, we're not Superman, we're not Superwoman, we're not God. We can't solve all the world's problems. And the harsh reality is I can't always protect those that I love the most. We try. We do the best we can. That's all there is. So having taken this horrible incident you've been through and you're still going through, you take these experiences and you're reaching out, trying to help others in a way that only those who've been there can. We talked earlier, before the interview. I had Lindsey Doolittle on his show. Lindsey's husband was a Kansas City police sergeant who died by suicide. I've had several guests on whose spouses died by suicide.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

I happen to know Lindsay very well. She's an amazing woman.

[John J. Wiley]

And here's the thing, and you have this way too, of talking that it's almost unsettling that I get where it's coming from. But a lot of people may not. But I think the people who have been through this will really benefit from your experience. Is that your mindset?

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

It absolutely is my mindset. I want others to be able to get where I am now sooner maybe. I feel like I put myself through a lot of stuff early on, that if I had the right tools and if I had been in touch with a community of other grievers that understood and I wasn't trying to just muddle through it myself, I would have seen things differently and maybe grown a little better, quicker. And so, yeah, that's the goal, is to be able to reach out. And I'll be honest with you, I would be 100% lying if I didn't say when I started the podcast and all of this, on some level it was as selfish as it was selfless because there's a part of me that was still looking for how I continue to heal in this journey and how it's, you know, and so I was looking to have hard conversations, but I'm also looking for answers. So that's, that's the candid part of this, is that it's not. There's no way to be honest and say it's completely selfless because I'm still looking for the right answer to make me feel 100% okay. And I won't, I'll never feel 100% okay. That's not going to happen.

[John J. Wiley]

The ultimate relief for me from my bondage of self is to help other people and to turn my thoughts to helping other people. And you do that with your podcast. It's called the Leftover Pieces podcast. Great name, very fitting name. But it's obviously not a show for everyone, correct?

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Hopefully not.

[John J. Wiley]

And where can people find it? How can they consume it? And you also have a website as well.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Yeah. And actually, you know, they can find me on all the major platforms for podcasts and it's the Leftover Pieces semicolon. The Suicide Loss Conversations is the whole podcast name and everything can be [e-mail] they can find the podcast there. They can find the books that are out and more will be coming out. They can find the community of support for parents and lots and lots of resources on the resource page. So if they land there and they're not a parent, but they've lost someone to suicide, there's an entire resources section.

[John J. Wiley]

For them and that's the leftoverpieces.com Melissa, thank you for come to your show telling your story. Very much appreciated and appreciate all that you do to help others. Thanks so much.

[Melissa Botorf Airey]

Thank you, John.

[John J. Wiley]

I'D like to thank our guests for coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and Podcast. Until then, this is John J. Wiley. See ya.