Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories

Episode Title: Not So Obvious Police Calls

Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: Dave Goldstein (Retired NYPD, former LAPD & university police officer, Author of Another Body in Brooklyn)
Date: February 11, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, host John J. Wiley sits down with retired NYPD officer Dave Goldstein to explore the real, unvarnished stories behind police work—focusing especially on cases that are “not so obvious” from the outside. The pair discuss high-stakes situations involving ambiguous evidence, child abduction, and domestic violence, challenging the simplified portrayals often seen in the media and underscoring how real police work is fraught with unpredictability, judgment calls, and trauma. Listeners are offered a window into the complicated, human side of law enforcement, with firsthand accounts from the streets of New York and Los Angeles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Realities of Police Discretion and Evidence (02:19–08:09)

• Discretion in Policing:
  Both host and guest highlight how officers often must use discretion, not arresting everyone they technically could. Time, evidence, and the specific circumstances guide those choices, despite public misconceptions.

  • Quote (Jay Wiley, 02:21):
    “So many times we gave people breaks. We didn’t arrest everybody… You gave a lot of breaks, used this word called discretion… Without evidence, forget about it.”

• Complex Domestic Calls:
  Domestic incidents rarely have clear-cut evidence or perpetrators. Officers need to assess, gather whatever evidence is available, and often must navigate changing stories and emotional volatility.

  • Quote (Dave Goldstein, 02:52):
    “Domestics are tough… you have to go where the evidence leads you. Everything from the initial phone call to when you get there, to interviewing both parties, to looking for… video footage… At the end of the day, you do the best job you can.”

• The Unseen Side of Use of Force:
  Dave recounts injuries and unpredictable altercations, including suspects attempting to disarm him, being bitten, and the limitations on what police can do physically compared to suspects.

  • Quote (Dave Goldstein, 08:09):
    “When you’re going hands on with people, things happen. They can do anything they want to you… Police have rules, so it’s not really a fair fight.”

Public Perception vs. Police Reality (04:33–07:09; 09:18–10:10)

• Body Cameras and Scrutiny:
  Dave notes that while more video footage increases scrutiny, it rarely captures the whole context, leading to premature judgments.

  • Quote (Dave Goldstein, 05:31):
    “Sometimes people only see a small portion… and they don’t see the entire situation.”

• Media Representation and Hindsight:
  Jay highlights how hindsight makes second-guessing easier, but foresight in policing is often impossible.

  • Quote (Jay Wiley, 11:15):
    “Hindsight is 20/20, but foresight in police work often doesn’t exist at all.”

Main Case Stories

1. Child Abduction & Investigation Breakdown (12:13–20:04)

Incident Details:

• A call comes in about a male attempting to abduct an 11-year-old girl in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn. Dave and his team arrest the suspect (a known criminal), but learn he’d been detained the previous day by other officers who let him go because the mother wasn’t present. This mishandling creates complications for the prosecution.

  • Quote (Dave Goldstein, 13:00):
    “She informs us that the day before, a male had been following an 11-year-old girl… catcalling her and said, ‘Hey, come here, I want to talk to you. Come on, let’s go somewhere.’”

Lessons & Insights:

• Investigative Diligence Matters:
  When initial responding officers don’t thoroughly investigate—or misunderstand requirements (such as waiting for a parent)—it can undermine future prosecution.

  • Quote (Dave Goldstein, 17:14):
    “The fact that the cops had let him go the day before, it caused a lot of problems… that cop becomes a witness for the defense.”

• Final Disposition:
  The suspect received minimal punishment due to these lapses, despite a history of criminality and numerous witnesses.

  • Quote (Dave Goldstein, 19:32):
    “He got off with a slap on the wrist...one of the cops wound up being a witness for the defense and the DA’s office was not happy.”

2. The Nuances of Domestic Violence and Child Custody Cases (20:56–29:55)

Police Response to Domestics:

• Jay describes the evolution of domestic violence response: where police used to refer complainants to court, policy now mandates arrest if there is evidence or risk.

• Dave confirms the complexity, especially when custody agreements are civil (unless a court order exists).

  • Quote (Dave Goldstein, 22:05):
    “A lot of times, especially when kids are involved… it’s like you said, he said, she said. Sometimes it is, there’s a lot of gray and you really have to… just go where the evidence takes you.”

Child in Danger Scenario (25:32–29:55)

• A mother reports a beating and abduction by her child’s father, who threatens never to let her see the child again. The situation requires both urgent action and careful navigation to ensure the child’s safety.

  • Quote (Dave Goldstein, 26:44):
    “If the kid is potentially in danger as a result, it still need—you still need to get that kid back quickly… that’s not even the main thing. The main thing is making sure that kid’s alright.”

• Tactics and Humanity:
  The account details the tension of confronting a potentially violent suspect holding a child, balancing the need for force with the utmost care for the child's safety.

  • Quote (Dave Goldstein, 29:08):
    “As the cop, you have to be the adult in the situation… even if I was being accused, my first thought would be my kid. I would want someone to hold the kid, get them to a safe place.”

Use of Force: The Unseen Reality (31:25–36:54)

• Escalation Signs and Officer Judgment:
  Dave and Jay discuss the subtle cues—fist-clenching, resisting touch—that reliably predict an imminent fight. The public and cameras rarely capture these moments, leading to misunderstandings when force is used.

  • Quote (Dave Goldstein, 33:06):
    “If you go to grab someone and they push your hand away, that means he’s gonna fight you... 100% of the time.”

• Frequency and Nature of Violence:
  Policing, especially in cities like New York, involves routine, sometimes violent encounters—not only during arrests but also with emotionally disturbed persons, and even in non-criminal situations.

  • Quote (Jay Wiley, 35:22):
    “I was in more car accidents you can shake a stick at. And more brawls than I can remember… And I don’t think I was unique.”

• Importance of De-Escalation and Decisiveness:
  Both agree that the goal is to end force as quickly as possible, and to honestly document what occurred.

  • Quote (Jay Wiley, 37:35):
    “If you have to use force, it’s like making sausage. Everybody loves, but no one wants to see it being made.”

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Second-Guessing Police Decisions:
  (Jay Wiley, 11:15)
  “Hindsight is 20/20, but foresight in police work often doesn’t exist at all.”

• On Evidence and Testimony:
  (Dave Goldstein, 18:20)
  “Cops can testify to something somebody told them unless it’s an admission or a confession… So you have to have corroborating evidence.”

• On Taking Responsibility:
  (Jay Wiley, 25:01)
  “Make a mistake doing your job. Don’t lie, do not justify… If you had to hit him, say you hit him, here’s the reason why you hit him.”

Guest’s Book: Another Body in Brooklyn (38:05–40:51)

• Another Body in Brooklyn is a fiction novel drawn from Dave’s real-life experiences, following a young sergeant through the chaos and gray areas of police work in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn. The book emphasizes humanity, ethical complexity, and coping with trauma—all grounded in policing realities.
  • Quote (Dave Goldstein, 38:05):
    “At the end of the day, it’s about caring about your job, caring about people, treating people like they’re human beings, even though… we want to think otherwise, but treating people like they’re human beings and just doing the job to the best of your ability.”

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:19 – Discretion and realities of police work
• 04:33 – Career timeline and changes in policing
• 08:09 – Unpredictability and physical danger in law enforcement
• 12:13 – Child abduction case and investigative errors
• 17:14 – How bad policing decisions affect prosecution
• 20:56 – The evolving handling of domestic violence calls
• 25:32 – Child custody/danger scenario and officer response
• 33:06 – Behavioral cues indicating suspects about to fight
• 36:54 – Mental toll and the frequency of violence
• 38:05 – Description and themes of Another Body in Brooklyn
• 40:27 – Guest’s website and contact

Tone & Style

The conversation is straightforward, honest, sometimes blunt, and steeped in the realities of street-level police work. Both host and guest avoid sensationalism, instead emphasizing “just the facts” while not shying away from the emotional challenges and consequences of trauma in the field. There is camaraderie, a touch of black humor, and a constant focus on the human cost—both for victims and for officers.

Conclusion

This episode pulls back the curtain on police work that rarely makes headlines: the ambiguous calls, the trauma, the judgment calls without the benefit of hindsight, and the real danger to both public and officers. Through candid conversation and vivid storytelling, listeners get a nuanced sense of the pressures, stakes, and ethical gray zones that define law enforcement—and the lasting impact these experiences have on those behind the badge.

For more:

• Guest’s website & book: anotherbodyinbrooklyn.com
• Host’s page & updates: Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show on Facebook