Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories
Episode: Police and Firefighters, Trauma and Recovery
Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: Dennis Pishock, Police Officer, Former Firefighter, Author
Date: September 14, 2025

Overview

This episode explores the deep emotional challenges and trauma experienced by first responders, specifically through the lens of guest Dennis Pishock—a police officer in Georgia who is also a former firefighter and author of Demons and Angels. Host John "Jay" Wiley leads a candid conversation about the lasting impact of witnessing tragedy, the evolution of mental health support in emergency services, and the difficult journey toward healing. The discussion includes raw accounts of specific traumatic events, practical tools for coping, the ongoing stigma around seeking help, and the importance of support systems both at work and at home.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Firefighter to Police Officer: Breaking the Mold

• [02:50–05:20]
  • Dennis shares his unusual career path, starting as a firefighter then transitioning to a police officer—opposite of the more common trend.
  • Mandatory overtime, emotional toll on family, and the need for a change precipitated his shift.
  • Strong camaraderie between police and fire departments in his experience, despite usual inter-service jokes.
  • Quote:
    • “Mandatory overtime took over… and that was the beginning of the end. The wife said we gotta get out of here because it's destroying the family.” —Dennis [03:53]

2. Shared Trauma and the Toll of the Job

• [05:49–08:41]
  • Both Jay and Dennis discuss the physical and emotional strains that accumulate over years of service—citing both personal injury and psychological distress.
  • Notable shared understanding across police and fire roles: the loss of colleagues, life expectancy concerns, and the abrupt loss of identity post-retirement.
  • Quote:
    • "When things got silent... that's when the real problem started. When I was in the middle of all the trauma... I knew what to do. I was okay." —Jay [07:01]
  • Silent aftermath and isolation after leaving the field are cited as key risk periods for mental health crises.

3. Firefighter Trauma: The Drowning Incident

• [12:47–17:07]
  • Dennis recounts a pivotal trauma as a firefighter: responding to the accidental drowning of an eight-year-old girl, which deeply affected him and his team.
  • Details the sensory and emotional experience—from the rescue attempt to the aftermath and realization that nothing could have saved her.
  • Struggled with “burying everything,” increased drinking, anger, and isolation following the event.
  • Quote:
    • “That call broke me. I lost it.” —Dennis [15:22]
  • The stigma of “suck it up” culture made reaching out for help difficult; peer support and CISD were not well-developed at the time.

4. First Responder Mental Health and Breaking the Stigma

• [19:33–24:20]
  • Discussion about delayed recognition and treatment for traumatic stress; both men emphasize the inadequacy of early support systems.
  • Peer support and critical incident stress management (CISM) began to improve only in recent years.
  • Quote:
    • “You're either in the arena or you're not. Do not even try to judge us when you’re not in the arena.” —Dennis [19:59]
  • Dennis later became a peer support counselor, realizing through training that he needed help himself, and found unexpected healing by sharing his story.

5. Personal Impacts: Family, Anger, and the Road to Recovery

• [26:33–30:33]
  • Dennis and Jay discuss the disproportionate strain on loved ones, with partners bearing the brunt of unresolved trauma.
  • Common symptoms include minor irritations escalating to anger, poor communication at home, escalating reliance on caffeine, insomnia, night terrors, and emotional withdrawal.
  • Emphasize that mindfulness, self-awareness, and spiritual practices have been critical for personal healing.
  • Quotes:
    • “The problem is you, man. It ain’t the spouses, it’s you. And you gotta admit that…” —Dennis [27:29]
    • “My relationship with my wife is my barometer for how I’m doing spiritually, mentally, and emotionally.” —Jay [28:05]

6. Finding Good in Tragedy & Practical Coping Tools

• [34:00–36:33]
  • Dennis describes another traumatic call, a child accidental death, where he was able to find some solace in giving the family one more day to say goodbye.
  • The turning point in healing: finding meaning, however small, in tragic circumstances.
  • Endorsement of practical strategies: mindfulness, breathing exercises (box breathing), physical fitness, spirituality, and seeking professional peer support.
  • Quote:
    • “We found the good instead of letting this call drag me to the darkness, and I was good with it. I finally said, you know what? I’m healing.” —Dennis [35:45]

7. The Ongoing Challenge of Stigma, Healing, and Peer Support

• [36:49–39:12]
  • Difference between accidental and violent deaths—a challenge for emotional processing; importance of support groups, solid relationships, and honest self-reflection.
  • Both agree healing is a journey that never truly ends but gets easier and more constructive when shared with others facing similar struggles.
  • Quote:
    • “It really is. It’s never too late. There is a permanent solution to temporary problems, and a lot of these are temporary.” —Jay [37:27]

8. Demons and Angels: Writing as Healing

• [39:12–41:36]
  • Dennis discusses his book Demons and Angels:
    • The process of writing was part healing, part outreach—helping himself and now others.
    • Book explores the “demons” (trauma, darkness) and “angels” (helpers, healing moments, advocates) on his journey.
    • Inspired by martial arts yin-yang philosophy: facing darkness to reach light.
    • Quote:
      • “You can’t go to heaven until you go to— and that’s why I started Demons and Angels—the darkness. It took me to go dark and hit rock bottom almost to find the light.” —Dennis [39:32]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We thrive on chaos... but that's what I say, at nighttime, when the Demons come at 2:22am or 3:33am, there’s no hiding, and it’s you versus them. Unfortunately, that’s where we lose our brothers and sisters." —Dennis [07:26]
• "We love to say, it's okay not to be okay. And we have different levels of being okay, of course. That's what we're doing this for—nurses, dispatchers, fire, police, everybody, because we're all doing the same calls." —Dennis [25:42]
• "If you do a career in policing, you’re going to get dinged up. It’s unavoidable. And unless you’re one of those people that can go through blood and guts and be fine… but the vast majority, you know, I’m damaged goods, but I’m okay with that." —Jay [25:07]
• "My trauma is helping people, but it’s definitely my path and I’m gonna keep doing it." —Dennis [40:13]
• "You treat people with respect and they're blown away because they’re so used to what the Media has told them or something else. But man, we are good people and they notice that. And it’s awesome." —Dennis [38:00]

Important Timestamps

• Dennis' background & the family impact of first responder life: [02:50–05:20]
• Firefighter camaraderie & trauma discussions: [04:18–08:41]
• Critical drowning incident and aftermath: [12:47–17:07]
• Cultural stigma and insufficient early mental health support: [18:49–24:20]
• Steps toward healing (peer support training): [24:20–26:33]
• Personal healing, relationship challenges, and mindfulness tools: [26:33–30:33]
• Finding meaning and the process of healing: [34:00–36:33]
• Demons and Angels — writing and outreach: [39:12–41:36]

Conclusion

This episode offers a powerful, firsthand look at the cost of frontline service—on physical health, relationships, and inner life. Through Dennis’s openness, listeners learn about the culture of stoicism and stigma in police and fire services, how peer support and acknowledgement of vulnerability can initiate real healing, and how sharing one’s story can help others feel less alone.
Both host and guest advocate for continued conversations about trauma, the importance of family and community support, and the value of confronting demons to discover new purpose.

To connect with Dennis or learn about his book: pishockbooks.com
For show archives and more: letradio.com

If you or someone you know is struggling with trauma, please know help is available and recovery is possible.