Police Shooting Myths Shattered: From His Own Story

Summary

Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories

Episode: Police Shooting Myths Shattered: From His Own Story
Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: John Szaporski, former Roswell, GA police officer and founder of Law Enforcement Connect
Date: September 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the real-life experiences of John Szaporski, a former police officer, focusing on the myths and realities surrounding police shootings and use of force. Through Szaporski’s first-hand accounts, the discussion addresses public misconceptions, the psychological effects of police work, and the journey of building a meaningful life after a career in law enforcement. The episode also highlights the origin of Law Enforcement Connect, a support initiative Szaporski developed for officers transitioning out of law enforcement.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Misconceptions about Police Use of Force

• Both host and guest emphasize that most police are not “trigger-happy.”
• Officers often face life-threatening scenarios without firing back, even when justified.
  • “I was in four shootings, a little more than 10 years. And the first two, I never fired a shot back.” – Jay Wiley [02:10]
  • “I was also involved in a shooting and never fired my gun either.” – John Szaporski [02:34]

2. Violence and Trauma Early in the Career

• Szaporski shares being nearly killed during his first month as a rookie officer.
• Jay underscores that trauma isn’t just for those serving decades—it can happen instantly.
  • “I was nearly killed the first month on the job. So tell me why again, I need 10 years of experience.” – John Szaporski [04:38]
  • “It doesn’t matter to me whether it’s one week, four years, 40 years, everybody’s going to pay a price.” – Jay Wiley [04:24]

3. A High-Stakes Pursuit: The Stolen Police Car Incident

• Szaporski recounts a wild pursuit where a suspect, after being tased and arrested, escaped handcuffs, slipped through an open patrol partition, stole a police cruiser, and led officers on a county-wide chase.
  • “Unbeknownst to [the officer], the middle partition wasn’t closed… the suspect was able to slip the handcuffs… steal the police car and lead us on chase.” – John Szaporski [06:44]
• During the chase, Szaporski narrowly escaped death, missing being hit by another police vehicle by inches; dashcam footage later haunted him.
  • “[My lieutenant] said, you can watch if you want, but I wouldn’t if I was you… That image played in my mind for the remainder of my career and several years after.” – John Szaporski [11:29]

4. Impact of Traumatic Incidents

• Both discuss how close calls and trauma accumulate, regardless of skill or experience.
  • “Some of the best police officers I’ve ever known were injured on the job… it wasn’t their fault.” – John Szaporski [14:18]
• Such incidents often propel agency-wide changes, like improvements to police vehicle partitions following Szaporski’s incident.
  • “Our agency… integrated wire or kind of fencing… so no one could slip through again. It speaks a lot to… always trying to improve.” – John Szaporski [14:42]

5. Lessons Learned from National High-Profile Police Incidents

• They reflect on tactical evolution prompted by the Miami FBI shootout and North Hollywood bank robbery.
  • “We changed the way we trained… all across the United States.” – Jay Wiley [15:27]
  • “The SWAT team was only one with AR15s. Everybody else had handguns and shotguns... wouldn’t penetrate the body armor…” – John Szaporski [17:40]

6. Another Shooting: Armed Robbery Pursuit

• Szaporski details responding to an armed robbery, foot chase, and an officer-involved shooting—again, choosing not to fire.
  • “My partner was the only one to fire. He fired three times. I didn’t have the opportunity to fire myself.” – John Szaporski [21:00]
  • “The foot chase might have been 10 seconds and the shooting was less than 2.” – John Szaporski [22:22]
• The chaos and split-second nature of such situations are emphasized.

7. Police Work: The Emotional Rollercoaster

• Life is described as alternating between long stretches of boredom and spikes of extreme adrenaline.
  • “Moments of downtime followed by moments of sheer panic and excitement.” – John Szaporski [24:19]
• Paperwork and mundane tasks are a constant, punctuating the dangers.

8. Dealing with Repeat Offenders and Mental Health Calls

• Stories of recurring community members and the evolution of crisis training, including de-escalation and crisis intervention.
  • “We had the advantage of the crisis intervention training… formal education on how to de-escalate… specifically for mental health…” – John Szaporski [27:15]
• Both note that much of what’s now considered “new” training has always been fundamental to good police work.

9. The Aftermath: Life After Law Enforcement

• Jay and John speak candidly about struggling with identity loss, absence of adrenaline, and depression after leaving police work.
  • “I was so used to the adrenaline rush… when I left… I had nothing but sheer boredom. It created huge problems for me.” – Jay Wiley [31:15]
  • “My body biologically didn’t know how to handle the adrenaline that wasn’t present… I suffered and went to a pretty deep depression.” – John Szaporski [32:21]
• Both joke about “the police look” being hard to escape.
  • “I’d be the guy in the old folks home… shh, here comes five-oh. I’ll always look like a police.” – Jay Wiley [33:14]

10. Transition and Creating Law Enforcement Connect

• Szaporski discusses how his difficult transition out of policing led him to start Law Enforcement Connect, supporting officers moving to civilian careers.
  • “I couldn’t find too many resources for veterans of law enforcement the same way that the military does... So I decided to help.” – John Szaporski [39:02]
  • The platform seeks to fill a gap, helping officers build new skills and connections for future success.

11. Understanding Trauma in Policing

• Importance of recognizing both acute and chronic trauma.
  • “Trauma and PTSI or pts, it can occur in two forms, acute and chronic… and that’s something that we need to obviously be managing day in and day out as law enforcement professionals.” – John Szaporski [35:50]
  • “People don’t fake being depressed, they fake being happy.” – John Szaporski [37:21]

12. Call for Awareness and Connection

• Stressing the need for officers to prepare for life after police work and for the community to offer understanding.
  • “Everybody who works in law enforcement, love your job. That’s great. If you get hurt, they’re going to replace you the next day. The job’s not going to love you, and you’re going to pay a price.” – Jay Wiley [31:09]
  • “Everyone will inevitably … transition and leave law enforcement. So develop your skills, invest in a hobby… something you can monetize later on.” – John Szaporski [34:51]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You literally just respond to everybody’s worst day.” – John Szaporski [03:05]
• “They don’t hate the person, they hate what we represent.” – John Szaporski [05:19]
• “[After close calls]… there’s no rhyme or reason to this. Some of the best police officers I’ve ever known were injured on the job … The job is dangerous.” – Jay Wiley [13:45, 14:18]
• “People don’t fake being depressed, they fake being happy.” – John Szaporski [37:21]
• “There is a career, there is a life after law enforcement… there is a way for a path to success.” – John Szaporski [38:19]

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Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:00-02:30: Introduction, guest background, setting the episode’s theme
• 03:05-05:20: Early exposure to violence and common myths about police shootings
• 06:44-13:24: Breakdown of the stolen police car chase and its personal/departmental aftermath
• 15:27-18:05: Lessons from national police shooting incidents—how policy and equipment change
• 20:41-22:27: Second life-or-death incident, emphasizing chaos and restraint in gun encounters
• 24:19-27:40: Emotional pace of police work, paperwork, and coping with difficult calls
• 31:15-34:51: Personal challenges and mental health struggles during transition out of policing
• 39:02-40:18: Founding and mission of Law Enforcement Connect—officer transition resources

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Overall Tone

The episode is deeply candid, blending a sense of camaraderie, honest self-reflection, and advocacy for officer wellness. Both men use plainspoken, occasionally wry language, respecting the gravity of the issues while also sharing the dark humor and survival instincts common among first responders.

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Summary Takeaways

• Police shootings and use of force are far more complex and restrained than often portrayed.
• Trauma in police work can be immediate or cumulative, impacting officers regardless of time served.
• The adrenaline of police work and its aftermath leave lasting effects—developing healthy transitions is essential.
• Law Enforcement Connect exists to aid officers in building meaningful lives beyond the badge.
• The law enforcement community is continually learning, improving, and deserves understanding both from inside and outside its ranks.

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Transcript

[A]

He was a police officer for a little more than four years. He was exposed to violence, life and death situations early in his career and had a lasting impact. He's here to talk about the misconceptions a lot of people have about police use of force and what he is doing today. Welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. In the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, their realities and valley investigating crimes. Plus those have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crime share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website letradio.com and also like us on Facebook, search for the law enforcement talk radio show. You know we used to have an app and it was very popular app and then guess what, we couldn't hold a candle through our Facebook presence. How many people have the mobile Facebook app already installed on their phone? How many people use it on their computer? Make sure you follow us, make sure you like us on our Facebook page. Just search for law enforcement talk radio show and podcast and be sure to send us a comment to one of the posts. Best of all is 100% free. Colleagues from the Atlanta, Georgia area with John Szaporski on the phone. John is a former law enforcement officer. He did four years in the Ron is it Roswell, Georgia Police Department.

[B]

That's right Jay. Roswell, Georgia.

[A]

And that's just a little bit north of Atlanta, not far. It's in the suburbs and that's right, four years. A lot of people will think hey, that's not very long. We'll talk about how intense it can be in a few moments. He is also the founder of Law Enforcement Connect. Get more information about what they do online@law enforcementconnect.com first of all, John, thanks for your service and thanks for being a guest on the show. Very much appreciated Jay.

[B]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

One of the main things and by the way I realized today, this month made 30 years ago I retired from law enforcement. I got hurt and retired young. It was a gunfight, no one was shot and I thought I sprained my wrist in a fight for my gun and found out having three surgeries, two steel plates. I was retired the rape old age of 33 and had to figure out what I'd do afterwards. One of the things I tell people all the time is there's a misconception that people have that police are trigger happy. I was in four shootings, a little more than 10 years. And the first two, I never fired a shot back. And I think part of your story is similar.

[B]

Yeah. First of all, thank you for your service as well. And you're right, I was also involved in a shooting and never fired my gun either.

[A]

We're going to talk about that in a moment. I got to ask a couple questions. First, I thought I went into law enforcement with a pretty good idea of what to expect. The truth is it was far more dangerous, far more traumatic, far more violence, much more deaths and beatings and stabbings and all that stuff than I could ever have realized. Is that a fair assessment for you?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I also didn't quite understand the reality of the job. I felt like I had a pretty good grasp and for the most part I did. What I didn't realize is that you literally just respond to everybody's worst day.

[A]

Oh, yeah, well, it's old line in Joseph Womble books. I'm a little bit older than you. And one of the things is he always. His premise is you come in this job idealistic, you're going to make a difference, you're going to save the world. And you're dealing with people at their worst, in their worst possible moments of their life. And you're usually dealing with, if not them, the worst segments of society. And eventually that whole psychological thing starts to collapse on you.

[B]

Yeah. You know, one of the things that I love most about the job is you had the extreme highs, but you also did have the extreme lows. There was very middle, very little middle ground. And you know, to be fair, even though I served four years, I loved every minute of it.

[A]

Yeah. One thing that I got to take you to task on this, people say, only look, there's a young man we're talking about right now who was shot and killed in New York Police Department. A little more than a year on a job. We have people that are brand new at the academy and they're going through the worst possible things in the world. They see the worst of the worst immediately on a job. Some of them lose their lives over it. Some of them are impacted for the rest of their lives. So it doesn't matter to me whether it's one week, four years, 40 years, everybody's going to pay a price.

[B]

Yeah, without question. Actually, that's a big part of my story as well. But one of the things that drove me to a little bit mad after the fact when I got out was I kept hearing basically that just ask the people would Say just ask anyone with 10 or more years of experience. And I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. You know, I was nearly killed the first month on the job. So tell me why again, I need 10 years of experience.

[A]

I agree. I was, I had my first situation where I was shot at, probably less than a year at academy, on the streets. And I, I'll be honest with you, it was the same reaction to the first one as it was at the last. I couldn't believe people are trying to kill me and they didn't even know who I was.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's the craziest part of it. I think that's another reason why we're such a tight knit community is because we all wear the same uniform, similar styles, and that's. People don't hate the person, they hate the. What we represent.

[A]

Yeah. Everybody that shot at me was not trying to. It wasn't personal. I realized that it's hard not to take it personally when people are trying to kill you. It really is. I say that tongue in cheek, but if you think about it, it's really difficult not to take it personally when they're trying to kill you. What they were doing is they're trying to avoid apprehension. Most of your career, criminals had prior, multiple prior arrests, multiple convictions, and they didn't want to go back to prison or jail and they would do whatever it took to get away.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's funny because, you know, they weren't after John J. Wiley or John Siporski. They were just like you said, they were trying to flee from an arrest situation. They didn't want to go back.

[A]

Yeah, it didn't matter who it was. So you were new on the street in your first year and you had your first situation where someone tried to kill you, am I correct?

[B]

Yeah, that's right. I was actually in phase one of FTO or field training. And so I was fresh out of the academy. I just gone through our agency's excellent training program after academy. So post academy, before the street. But it was month one. Yeah.

[A]

What happened?

[B]

Well, what happened was officer who was also on the job, fellow officer on shift called out on a traffic stop. He saw a vehicle who was traveling and the front bumper was hanging off the vehicle. And so we effected a traffic stop, effectively got into a chase, chase led across the city. That's where I engaged was when the vehicle wrecked out and the suspect bailed and then tried to pull a gun on the initiating officer, dropped the gun and ended up was Tased and then arrested our sergeant at the time. One of the sergeants at the time was actually getting into a brand new fleet vehicle. He had just, he was literally checking it in, doing the checklist that we do every single day. But the vehicle I think had less than 20 miles on it. So he was checking it and heard the call go out. And he responded as well, jumped in the car. And so when he arrived on scene, we had apprehended the suspect and placed him under arrest. And someone on scene then decided to place that suspect in the back of this sergeant's brand new car, who was hadn't completed the checklist yet. And it was unbeknownst to the officer as well. It was just the nearest patrol vehicle. And so the officer placed a suspect in the back. Unbeknownst to him, the middle partition wasn't closed. That was part of the check in process. And so the suspect was able to slip the handcuffs from behind his back, slip through the partition window into the driver's seat, steal the police car and lead us on chase across our county and then across a secondary county as well. Ended up crashing the vehicle, the patrol vehicle. And that's where my FTO and I, we were the lead car on that chase. And when the suspect crashed his patrol stolen patrol vehicle, he actually bailed out of the car. And so I bailed out of the car. But unbeknownst to the person, the officer who was second in the chase, I came out the right side of the vehicle, which is extremely odd for police. Most obviously, in our city, we don't ride two to a car. We rode just single, single people to a single person to a car.

[A]

We were the same way.

[B]

Yeah. And so when I bailed out the right side, the second officer in the chase actually suffered automotive phenomenon called brake fade.

[A]

We're gonna take a short break on that note and we return to this conversation a few moments. We're talking with John Szaporski. This is a law enforcer show. So much more heading your way. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

[B]

Someone asked, what's the catch? What's the cost? There is no cost for anything. On the law enforcement talk radio show and podcast website letradio.com letradio.com again, that's letradio.com.

[A]

Return conversation with John Siporski on the law enforcement show. Former law enforcement officer from Georgia. He's also the founder of Law Enforcement Connect. That's law enforcement connect.com will explain what they do in a little bit four window break and apologize for that, because you're right in the middle of your story. You're in FTO and you've got this life and death situation. And by the way, thanks for clarifying how the suspect stole the brand new police car, because a lot of times I find myself doing this. I read stories, I go, how did that happen? And I know how it could happen. So when you explained it, it really helped quite a bit. Now he gets a point where the guy bailed out and he had an officer injured, correct?

[B]

Yeah. So the suspect bailed out of his wrecked, stolen patrol car there. And when I bailed out to chase him, the second patrol car in the chase just behind my patrol car, who was in lead, actually crashed into a median partition. And I just barely escaped. I mean, inch or less. And the dash cam just kept that. And so. Yeah. And so we apprehended the suspect for a second time. And when we. We did a debrief of the situation, my sergeant, lieutenant, the chief, arrived on scene. Obviously, it was a big, big deal, and there was quite the stir around the dashcam video. And my lieutenant told me, he said, you can watch if you want, but I wouldn't if I was you.

[A]

Was it?

[B]

And so I didn't watch that. It was pretty close. I mean, it was an intense chase. It was just an odd situation. No, no one had ever stolen a police car before in our city. And so it was just. It was a intense situation. Plus, it was my first month, so the, the crash that ensued after the fact, after the crash there or after the chase there, rather. And the crash that happened was pretty violent as well. So I would have been smushed for sure. But the lieutenant said, you can watch it if you want, but I wouldn't. And so I didn't. I didn't watch it for a few weeks. And I wish I had never watched it because it was really, really close. And that. That image played in my mind for the remainder of my career and several years after the fact, I could almost.

[A]

Tell you that I'm glad we didn't have body camera videos and dash cam back in my day, for that very reason. Because part of this is the replay in your mind of how it goes. I don't need to see how it went. And to make it more graphic in my mind that my fear is it would increase the volume in my mind even more.

[B]

Yeah, it was, you know, you have your mind's eye, and I just remember the vehicle whizzing by me, and somebody described it almost Like. Like a video game, you know, where you. Your legs kind of jump up and you kind of levitate almost. And that's the way that the body cam or the dash cam video show.

[A]

Did you see the police car coming before you were able to move other way?

[B]

It was like a sixth sense. I heard it. I saw it out of my peripheral. I knew just kind of inherently that something was coming fast to my right side. And it was just. If I'd been a split second slower out of the car, I tripped. I mean, it could have been a bad day.

[A]

That's the stuff that bothers me. The what ifs is the close calls. And it could have been much, much, much worse. There are many, many times that we had life and death situations, and I'm sure you went through these as well. And I thought the reason I made it through okay, because I was just that good at my job or whatever it might be. It turns out that had nothing to do with the people who are great cops. I know they were killed or they were severely maimed and injured, and they were just as good, if not better, than I was. And there's no rhyme or reason to this.

[B]

Yeah, same. Some of the best police officers I've ever known were injured on the job and were forced involuntarily into retirement. But some of the most proactive, most upstanding, ethical team players, these guys are top of the top. And guys and gals, best that I knew, some of them were injured and had to retire early.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Similar to your story.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One thing that I absolutely love, though, about that story, and one of the reasons why I continue to tell it and bring it up, is actually a story of constant pursuit of perfection or improvement is because our agency actually adopted. They reviewed the incident for the stolen police car, and as a result, they actually integrated wire or kind of fencing, almost metal fencing, so no one could. Even if the partition was open, no one could slip through again. And I think that speaks a lot to the law enforcement community of how we're always trying to improve and become better versions of ourselves, both professionally and as an agency as well.

[A]

Unfortunately, so much of what we do is based off tragedies in the past. Here's a great example. If you look at the Miami FBI shootout when I was a rookie police, we go through the range and we carried revolvers back in the day. And when you're qualifying and practicing and all this stuff, they would say, fire six on a whistle, whatever it might be, and then you'd empty the spent shell casings into your hand and put them in your pocket so that you wouldn't have to go back later on and clean up the area. Well, that's what happened to shootout with the FBI. One of the agents I believe was shot severely. I can't recall if he was killed, but he was. He was found putting expended spent shell casings into his hand as he's trying to reload. And he was in a vulnerable position ever since that case. We changed the way we trained. We changed everything about that. And it wasn't just us in our department, it was all across the United States.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah. And I remember that case study. There was, there was quite a bit about, you know, I served on the SWAT team in my jurisdiction as well as multi jurisdictional SWAT team there for the north half of the county that I worked in. But you know, we called them tactical reloads and we, we wanted to get back into the fight as soon as possible. Don't waste any time. Focus on the primary things.

[A]

Yeah, the threat.

[B]

There's a lot of lessons to be learned from that.

[A]

There are so many lessons to learn. And we're going to talk more about another scenario you went through. I do want to shift very quickly. We're talking about learning lessons from the past. And you said you're a SWAT team member. Our department called them QRT back in the day. There was also another big incident that changed policing in the United States dramatically. And it was a North Hollywood bank shootout where LAPD officers were armed with handguns and they're going against men with semiautomatic rifles and full body armor. And they had to go to guns stores that get rifles.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And people like, well, why do our police have an AR15 or why do they have this or why do they have that? That's the reason why. Because these incidents occur and they are severely outgunned.

[B]

Yeah. That, that incident really shed a lot of light on the fact that it is possible to outgun the police and unnecessarily. So I mean, the SWAT team at that point in time in North Hollywood or for the North Hollywood shootout, the SWAT team was only one with AR15s. Everybody else had handguns and shotguns which wouldn't penetrate the body armor that the two suspects were wearing at the time. Right.

[A]

And the last thing is people love to talk about these. They call them tanks, the MRAP vehicles that are their surplus army military vehicles are given to police. They had wounded officers who were shot in the street and they're trying to rescue them under gunfire and that's the reason why so many departments have those. And yes, you even the quiet suburban departments need those because if it's three hours away, it does nobody any good. This is Law Enforcement Show. We're talking with John Siporski, former law enforcement officer, also the founder of Law Enforcement Connect. We talk more about another incident in his career. And you and I both know a lot of people in police work don't respond like the media says. We'll talk more about that in a few moments. This law Enforcement show don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Of all the radio stations in the United States, there are no other shows like the law enforcement talk radio show. And on Facebook, there's only one official page. Do a search on Facebook for the law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to like the Law enforcement Talk radio show Facebook page. Attention all small biz owners at the UPS Store.

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[A]

The UPS Store Be unstoppable. Come into your local store today. Return in conversation with John Siporsky on a law enforcement show. John is a former law enforcement officer, did four years outside of Atlanta, Georgia. Things Roswell, Georgia. He's also founder of Law Enforcement Connect. Their website is law enforcementconnect.com thanks for your service and thanks for telling your experience because so much what we hear in the news media nowadays is I would say news media, not just television news, radio, also social media, especially big time is that police are trigger happy. And you and I both know that many, many times in what would be justified shootings, law enforcement officers don't fire. And I didn't fire in two of mine. And you went through one even early in your career you've been through one life and death situation, needed another one involving gunplay and armed robbery, correct?

[B]

Yeah, that's right. And in this circumstance as well, it was an armed robbery of a pizza joint in my jurisdiction and the armed robber had fled out the rear of the restaurant and we were on patrol and my zone partner and I were in our vehicles and we were patrolling the area and he and I simultaneously spotted the individual, the suspect matching the suspect description and so when we got out of our vehicles to engage the suspect, he took off, got into a foot chase with this individual. My partner was about 20 foot ahead of me, and the suspect decided it'd be a good idea to draw his gun and pointed at my partner. And my partner was the only one to fire. He fired three times. I didn't have the opportunity to fire myself. I actually didn't see the suspect pull and point his handgun. So I didn't actually. It's funny, and maybe your incidents as well, you can reflect on some of this, but I actually didn't know who was shooting, whether we were being shot at, or whether my partner was the one shooting. But when we. My partner fired three shots and the suspect dropped his handgun and proned out on the ground. He laid on his stomach on the ground, and as my partner held him at gunpoint, I affected the arrest and placed him in handcuffs. But it's just a crazy situation. It's tough to know what's going on at the moment in time.

[A]

How long did it take from start to finish?

[B]

Seconds.

[A]

That's the thing.

[B]

I mean, the foot chase might have been 10 seconds and the shooting was less than 2.

[A]

I want to go back to. You heard the description, and when you're driving that street and you see the suspect matching description, what was the first thought in your mind? Did you have the aha moment when.

[B]

I saw him on the ground?

[A]

No, when you first saw him before.

[B]

Put chasing the shooting. Absolutely. Absolutely. When we identified the suspect, I mean, we knew the description that dispatch had put out over the radio. And when we saw him immediately, it was more or less excitement to a certain degree, that we're going to be able to capture a bad guy.

[A]

There have been so many times in my career, as I look back, John, that you have people, you go, I don't know if that's a guy or not. You know, I just don't know. And it turns out it is. Later on you find out, and other ones were instantly. And I don't. I can't describe it. When you're looking at them and they're looking at you and they both have that aha moment, you know you've got the right person and you know it's on.

[B]

Yeah. A lot of times you just. The engaging of a person, the way that they respond to it, the engagement with a police officer tells you a lot about their demeanor and what they're up to. You know, it's not normal. If you say, hey, sir, can I talk to you for a Minute and they take off running with no explanation. Something's up, right?

[A]

Yeah, I'm not running right now at all. The only time I'm running is if you're chasing me with a gun. I'm not doing it. I'm done. Those days are over. So I want to go to something you said earlier and I can't remember where this line came from. I think it was a movie or television show. I can't remember. But so much of police work was absolute sheer boredom followed by extreme adrenaline back to sheer boredom and then backing up and down, up and down, up and down. And that happens sometimes, multiple times a shift for me. Was that the case for you guys?

[B]

Yes. We were a metro Atlanta area, you know, located about 10 miles north of the city of Atlanta. So we did have quite a bit. But it was, you know, it was. It's a decent place for sure. Very nice place to live, very nice place to work. But we did so, you know, we did see a lot of riff raff coming up from the city and getting into trouble. The thing that, like going back to what I was talking about earlier was the things that I did not anticipate from the police career was how much paperwork there was, how much the paperwork involving in report writing and documenting whether it was an armed robbery or DUI or just a simple civilian complaint that needed to be processed and documented correctly. That was, and I absolutely agree that it is moments of downtime followed by moments of sheer panic and excitement.

[A]

Most of the time, in my experience, I didn't have a chance to get ramped up and get fearful beforehand. It was usually afterwards that was when the reaction would occur. The exception being like drug raids, when you knew what you're going into, you knew was going to be bad and the potential of violence is very high. Or when we had calls for. There's one guy in our district who was great guy, phenomenal guy, until he started drinking and didn't take his medication. Then he. We get calls for a big man in the middle street in the middle of wintertime in just his underwear, rocking the front of an MTA bus. And we knew who it was and we knew there's a good possibility we have to fight him. And he put a lot of people in the hospital. And you'd. I'd do that silent prayer ahead of time. Oh, my God, let me do the right thing and let me make it through this okay. Did you have a lot of those calls or no?

[B]

Yeah, we. It's funny, I think every jurisdiction has at least One of those people, the one that, you know, he's a troublemaker. He's, for whatever reason, he is going to be causing an issue sooner than later. And he's a repeat offender.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

What a great guy.

[A]

The best kind of world. The first time I met him, I was a rookie with a senior officer. And you're like, oh, by the way, this is so and so. And he introduced me, he was very polite, very nice. He had tried out for the Baltimore pro football team at the time and got cut because he was tackling everybody. He was a huge monster of a man, but really, really nice. And when he started drinking and got off his medicine, he was totally out of control, a totally different person. And the only way we could calm him down, we learned is say, hey, I'm going to go get your mother. And it was immediate diffusion.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, and when they are repeat offenders, you just, you probably learn your success tactic through trial and error. I would say, yeah.

[A]

And this is before the time where we had the magic phrase of de escalation. Like we didn't try to de escalate stuff beforehand.

[B]

Yeah, we had, we had the advantage with my career, we had the advantage of the crisis intervention training and the CIT team there. And we did, we had formal education on how to de escalate with specifically for mental health and also for drugs, drug abuse and stuff like that.

[A]

So it was.

[B]

Policing has come a long way.

[A]

It was a non stop thing even in the 80s with training. And people say this is one thing that really gets to me, like the police need more training. Well, you could always get more. When you start defunding police, the first thing that gets cut is training. So we had, in our case it was five months intense academy and then you had daily roll call. Well, there was more training involving laws and procedures and things of that nature. Then we had yearly in service training where it was a week of classrooms and in that week you'd have all kinds of sensitivity training, all kinds of training, dealing with autism awareness, whatever it might be, you were dealing. And we were dealing with techniques called de escalation before it became a thing. We were doing community policing before it became a phrase. It's all we knew back in the day. And now people talk about, well, you know, if they just have more de escalation training, this and that, then somehow magically they could make the person do what we want them to do and eliminate the threat. This is law enforcement show. We're talking with John Siporski, he's a former law enforcement officer and he did four years on a job and after leaving, which we'll talk about in a few moments, he started experiencing changes not just mentally, emotionally, but also job wise. And he's the founder of Law Enforcement Connect, which we will talk about. Get more details@law enforcementconnect.com we'll take a short break. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Let's talk about some of the lesser known social media platforms. The law enforcement talk radio show and podcast is on them and we post there all the time. Truth.comgetter G-E-T-T r.commewee m e w e.com that's just a few of the places you'll find posts from us, the law enforcement talk radio show and podcast and best of all, it's free. You're listening to leaffilter Radio and the guru of gutter protection himself, Chris Counahan is here to take your most pressing leaf related questions. Hey everybody, Chris here. I understand we have Ron on the line. Ron, where are you calling from? Uh oh, Ron, are you calling from a ladder?

[B]

Well, I was. I wanted to ask Chris what I need to do to get my gutters ready to have leaffilter installed.

[A]

Oh, Ron, you don't have to do anything. A leaffilter trusted pro will come out.

[B]

And clean out your gutters, realign and.

[A]

Seal your gutters and install leaffilter, America's number one gutter protection system.

[B]

So I didn't need to get on this ladder. Ron, Leaffilter trusted pros are in your.

[A]

Neighborhood and ready to help.

[B]

Just visit leaffilter.comday to schedule your free gutter inspection and get up to 30% off. Thank goodness.

[A]

What was that site? That's leaffilter.com day for your free gutter inspection today. See representative for warranty details. Promotion is 20% off plus a 10% senior or military discount. One discount per household return. Conversation with John Siporski on the law enforcement show. John is a former law enforcement officer in Roswell, Georgia. Nearly killed his first week on the job. Also involved in an officer involved shooting by the way. He did not shoot. I know a lot of people don't believe that. We're talking about his mental state of mind after leaving police work after four years and transitioning into founding law enforcement Connect. Their website is law enforcementconnect.com One of the things I struggled with when I retired is I got hurt. Retired young. I was 33 and I was so used to the adrenaline rush and lack of better words, identifying myself with a job. It's not. Wasn't my whole life, but it was a big part of my life. I loved what I did. It didn't love me back. The reality is where everybody who works in law enforcement love your job. That's great. If you get hurt, they're going to replace you the next day. The job's not going to love you and you're going to pay a price. It's not just you. Your family's going to pay a price. Everybody's close to you is going to pay a price. Well, one of the issues I had was I was so used to the adrenaline and the excitement, I must become addicted to it because when I left police work and all of a sudden I had nothing but sheer boredom. It created huge problems for me. Huge depression issues, all sorts of other issues related to that. Did you encounter that?

[B]

Yes, absolutely. One of the books that I wish I had had early on was a book by Dr. Kevin Gilmartin called Emotional Survival for Law Enforcement. And in his book to Dr. Here, he references the hypervigilance roller coaster, which in a way references Newton's third law of physics, which basically says for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. And one of the things, as you mentioned is when we live in law enforcement, for me, I lived inside my jurisdiction. I worked every EJ Extra job OT over time, every shift I could possibly pick up. On top of that, I was in training court and call outs for swat. I was switched on all the time. I was living in a state of alertness that wasn't healthy to sustain itself over a long period of time. And so when I left law enforcement as well, similar to you, my body biologically didn't know how to handle the adrenaline that wasn't present in my own body anymore. And so I suffered and went to a pretty deep depression.

[A]

Yeah, the absence of the highs and lows really took a toll and it still does to some degree. I don't have difficulty functioning. This is a true story just happened. My wife and I were talking to some man. Who he was is not important. Where we were wasn't important. He goes, you know, I've been intimidated by your husband for a long time. And I'm sitting there listening to him. And she goes, he's a really nice guy. And a lot of people say that. And he goes, it's a wall. And she goes, no, it's not a wall. He's a very nice guy, but people think he's intimidating. You develop at Least in my case, I develop this look. I'd be the guy in the old folks home. They'll go, shh, here comes five. Oh, I'll always look like a police. And I don't want to walk around with this look of sternness and hyper vigilant, all that stuff, but still, it's still there.

[B]

Absolutely. You know, it's funny, I grew a beard and now I don't get as much of that anymore. But when I'm clean shaven, people either they say, you military or law enforcement, what's your deal? You know, and of course I respond proudly that I served in the law enforcement community previously.

[A]

The only people, I should say the only animals that don't do that are dogs. My dogs don't question me at all. They're fine. People do it all the time. Here's a standard joke that my daughters and I have. A guy will say, man, your dad looks really mean. And they'll go, he's a, he's retired cop. He looks like that all the time. He's a really nice guy. Just, just relax. They cannot relax. But I found it difficult making that transition. All of a sudden I'm no longer police. All of a sudden I have to decide what I want to do for the rest of my life. Because the pension, while good and I won't get into technicalities, it became my health insurance increased, was a third of my pension. I couldn't afford to live off that alone. I had to work.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, one of the truths that law enforcement officers need to understand early on in their career, if not day one through the academy, is that everyone will inevitably who makes it home from shift. Everyone will inevitably transition and leave law enforcement. So develop your skills, develop yourself, invest in a secondary or even a hobby, a passion project, something that you can monetize later on that you can support yourself on if something like your situation happens where you're medically retired early.

[A]

Yeah, I know guys, I say guys, that's men and women that are in wheelchairs and they can't work and they're eating ramen noodles because the pension system the way it is, and each of them love the job as much as I did. And then we're all just one call away from catastrophic injury. Some have it, some managed not have it, but we all come very, very close.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. And it's kind of like riding a motorcycle. It's not about whether or not you're going to fall over or, you know, in some sort of crash. It's just A matter of when. I mean, whether you dump your bike in the garage or, you know, my first motorcycle as well, I slid right off, you know, the side of the road on a sandy patch. You know, it's just a matter of when and what level of trauma. But you know, I think there's another aspect here that officers need to be aware of, and the public as well, is that trauma and PTSI or pts, it can occur in two forms, acute and chronic. It can occur in an instant or it can occur over time. And that's something that we need to obviously be managing day in and day out as law enforcement professionals.

[A]

From what I understand, the chronic can be more difficult and more pervasive and more life challenging, then the one episode can be very, very bad. I'm not downplaying it. I'm just saying there are differences. And quite often what we see in people is we'll see. And there's an incident just not that long ago in South Florida where a career officer, 20 plus years on a job, absolutely lost it on the street. I mean, lost total control. And a big part of the population saying, this is a bad person, he needs to be arrested, he needs it. And my thought was that's a sick person right there, needs some help.

[B]

Yeah. Keep in mind, you know, people, people don't fake being depressed, they fake being happy. And so when someone's faking being happy, you got to check in, you got to you, we should be doing this. And I still do this with many of my co workers and colleagues from my time in law enforcement. And then just how's it going? You know, I heard it recently said status check. Right. How's it going? You okay? How's family life? How's career? What's going on? But you know, I hope we stop seeing the rise in suicides. I hope that we understand the trauma that is encountered every day within the job. But also to be able to say that there's hope at the end of the tunnel, to say that there is a career, there is a life after law enforcement. If you need out for your own mental well being, you know, there is a way for a path to success, both if you want to stay in or if you want to transition out.

[A]

And I'm so glad you brought that up because that's what you did. Sometime after leaving law enforcement, you started law enforcement Connect. What is that and what do you do?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. So my transition from law enforcement should have been on paper, it should have been easy. I've got a business degree. I could Transfer. I have experience in the business world prior to law enforcement. I was getting back into the business world after law enforcement. And so by all accounts, it should have been an easy transition. I was educated and experienced in the work that I was going to be doing. But the thing that I didn't anticipate was the biological change, like we mentioned before, the adrenaline, the depression, all of these things. And then the culture is shockingly different as well. And even though we as law enforcement professionals work with people every day in the civilian community, right. They're our clients, they're the people that we interact with on a daily basis. It's not the same world. So what? I had a very difficult time transitioning from service to civilian. I decided to do something and start looking for solutions. So I looked out there, I reached out to many organizations. I couldn't find too many resources for veterans of law enforcement the same way that the military does. The military has 40,000 veteran service organizations or VSOs, and law enforcement doesn't. So I decided to help. I decided to create a solution, a resource rather, which started as a passion project years ago, but it developed into. As we grew and as we started helping people across North America, cops across North America, we decided to exclusively support the law enforcement community and career transition because somebody needed to.

[A]

And your website is law enforcementconnect.com John, thanks so much for being guest on the show telling your story. All very much appreciated.

[B]

Thanks Jay.

[A]

I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the law Enforcement Talk Radio show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of the Law Enforcement Talk radio show and podcast. Until then, this is John J. Wiley. See ya. You're listening to leaffilter Radio and the guru of gutter protection himself, Chris Counahan is here to take your most pressing leaf related questions. Hey everybody, Chris here. I understand we have Ron on the line. Ron, where are you calling from? Uh oh, Ron, are you calling from a ladder?

[B]

Well, I was. I wanted to ask Chris what I need to do to get my gutters ready to have leaffilter installed.

[A]

Oh Ron, you don't have to do do anything. A leaffilter trusted pro will come out.

[B]

And clean out your gutters, realign and.

[A]

Seal your gutters and install leaffilter, America's number one gutter protection system.

[B]

So I didn't need to get on this ladder. Ron leaffilter trusted pros are in your.

[A]

Neighborhood and ready to help. Just visit leaffilter.comday to schedule your free.

[B]

Gutter inspection and get up to 30% off. Thank goodness.

[A]

What was that site? That's leaffilter.com day for your free gutter inspection today. See representative for warranty details. Promotion is 20% off plus a 10% senior or military discount. One discount per household.