Police Stings and Sex Predators

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories
Episode: Police Stings and Sex Predators
Date: April 8, 2026
Host: John “Jay” Wiley
Guest: Carlos Rodriguez, Retired Washington State Trooper, Author of The Ugly Underneath

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Overview

This episode explores the grim realities of investigating crimes against children, particularly online sex predators, from the firsthand perspective of Carlos Rodriguez. With almost a decade on the front lines, Rodriguez discusses the methodology of undercover stings, the emotional toll on investigators, and offers practical advice for law enforcement and parents. The episode blends true crime, law enforcement experiences, and human impact, emphasizing resilience and the ongoing struggle for wellness in the profession.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Entering the World of Crimes Against Children

• Unexpected Path:
  Carlos didn’t seek out this type of work—it began with an unexpected assignment with the Missing and Exploited Children’s Task Force, affiliated with ICAC (Internet Crimes Against Children).

  “When I first got into this work, I didn’t even know that the Washington State Patrol even investigated these types of cases.” (03:15 — Rodriguez)

• Compartmentalization as a Tool:
  Both Jay and Carlos discuss mentally “compartmentalizing” disturbing content as a survival technique, admitting this isn’t a skill everyone can develop.

  “I had compartmentalized things all throughout my life, which I think we all do. But at certain things where I just became really good at that.” (05:03 — Rodriguez)

• Lasting Trauma:
  Exposure to crimes against children leaves permanent scars on investigators, often only fully realized after leaving the work.

  “There are images in my head that I still can't get rid of no matter how hard I try.” (05:03 — Rodriguez)

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Law Enforcement Wellness — Resources & Gaps

• Agency Support is Lacking:
  Jay expresses skepticism about how seriously agencies take mental health; Carlos agrees, saying real, accessible resources are rare.

  “I'll be honest with you, Carlos, I think that a lot of... is just a lot of talk or window dressing when it comes to agencies and departments.” (06:41 — Wiley)

• Proactive Care is Crucial:
  Both advise seeking trauma-informed therapy proactively, not waiting for a crisis or department mandate.

  “Be proactive about it before bad things happen because you’re going to get dinged up. It’s inevitable.” (09:40 — Wiley)

• Peer Responsibility:
  Carlos explains he looked after his detectives' wellbeing more than his own, leveraging third-party therapist contracts. Annual wellness checks were not enough—more contact was needed.

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The Landscape of Child Predation — Offline and Online

• Stranger Danger vs. Familiar Threats:
  Childhood warnings about “strangers in vans” have shifted. Most crimes against children involve someone known to the child—family, acquaintances, or those met online.

  “Most of these cases aren't some creepy guy in a park or a van... The ones you got to worry about are familial, people known to the family. And then online...” (13:12 — Rodriguez)

• Parent-Child Communication is Key:
  Carlos changed the way he spoke to his own children about safety, emphasizing that they must always feel safe to come forward, regardless of who the suspect is.

  “It’s never their fault. They didn’t have a... no matter how guilty they feel... they can trust me... that's one of the number one ways to prevent some of these things happening.” (14:04 — Rodriguez)

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Undercover Operations & Demand Stings (21:39–27:21)

• Setting the Traps:
  Carlos led “Demand Ops” — undercover stings posing as parents or children, using actual intercepted case scenarios to bait predators from across Washington State.

  • Teams set up in apartments/houses for a week at a time; online ads drew instant response:

    “Within 10 minutes of me posting our first ad, we had hundreds of responses... we would average about seven arrests a night for someone seeking sex with 13 and younger.” (23:25—Rodriguez)

• Volume & Methodology:
  The response to these stings shocked the team; operations were designed for court-proofing (proper training and documentation), and to minimize overtime while maximizing arrests.

• Fatigue and Safety:
  Investigator fatigue or distress could lead to mistakes or increased risk during stings. Teams monitored burnout and capped nightly activity.

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Emotional Fallout & Coping

• Bringing Trauma Home:
  Investigators' family lives and social experiences suffer from constant exposure to darkness, leading to withdrawal, irritability, and the need to 'sanitize' explanations for the public.

  “I would have to sanitize it. And even when I sanitize it, it was still... not enough because it's just hard. All this stuff is just so ugly.” (27:43 — Rodriguez)

• Family Coping Mechanisms:
  Carlos encouraged his team to decompress for two hours (even if just in a parking lot) before going home to family, a practice he admits wasn't always easy for him.

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Who are the Predators?

• Destroying Stereotypes:
  Predators come from all backgrounds: women, judges, teachers, firemen, even police officers.

  “It’s not often the case, is it?”
  “No, it isn’t... you would never think that [a young female caretaker] was someone trying to traffic a kid... but I’ve had judges, firemen, teachers, former police officers.” (35:06 — Wiley/Rodriguez)

• Impact on Law Enforcement Reputation:
  Every law enforcement scandal affects the entire profession; good cops never cover up for offenders among their ranks.

  “We are not going to cover for someone and lose our health insurance for our family. We're not doing it.” (37:40 — Wiley)

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Moving Forward — Writing, Advice & Resilience

• Therapeutic Writing:
  Rodriguez wrote his book, The Ugly Underneath, as a “therapeutic journey”, aiming to help cops and civilians understand the emotional toll and support needed.

  “If you're not in law enforcement, it really gives you some insight into those that are doing the work... garner some support for them because they need your help. This problem... can consume you.” (38:37 — Rodriguez)

• Parenting Advice:
  The most vital tool is a trusting relationship and open communication with children—not just a technical safeguard.

  “Number one is make sure you have a good relationship with your kid... If they don’t trust you... something could still happen. So make sure you build the trust so that they know they can come to you with anything.” (40:11 — Rodriguez)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[These cases] are not some creepy guy in a park or a van... It’s the person that lives with you.” (13:45 — Wiley)
• “Within 10 minutes of me posting our first ad, we had hundreds of responses...' (23:25 — Rodriguez)
• “There are images in my head that I still can't get rid of no matter how hard I try.” (05:03 — Rodriguez)
• “If you don't talk about this and you don't take breaks and you don't take care of yourself, it ends up affecting you, and it affects your family.” (28:40 — Rodriguez)
• “Be proactive about it before bad things happen because you’re going to get dinged up. It’s inevitable.” (09:40 — Wiley)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:15 | How Rodriguez started with crimes against children task force | | 05:03 | Compartmentalization and lasting trauma | | 06:41 | Agencies and mental health—window dressing? | | 09:40 | Proactive advice for law enforcement wellness | | 13:12 | Stranger danger vs. familiar threats | | 21:39 | Undercover sting operations (“Demand Ops”), volume of cases | | 23:25 | Shocking number of arrests, real-world case design | | 27:43 | Impact on social and family life | | 35:06 | Predator stereotypes and real examples | | 38:37 | About The Ugly Underneath and why Carlos wrote it | | 40:11 | Final advice for parents on protecting their kids |

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Key Takeaways

• Online predation is alarmingly prevalent and evolving; most threats come from people children know, not strangers.
• The psychological toll on law enforcement is immense, and agencies must offer honest, frequent wellness support.
• Communication and trust with children are crucial for their safety.
• Removing stigma and secrecy around trauma in policing can save careers—and lives.
• Anyone can be a predator; vigilance is required from both law enforcement and caregivers.

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Guest Details:
Carlos Rodriguez — Book: theuglyunderneath.com
Social: @Crodriguez198 on TikTok and Instagram

Host Contact:
John "Jay" Wiley — [e-mail]

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Transcript

[A]

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[C]

He is retired state trooper that got involved investigating crimes against children, including online sexual molesters and suspects that a lot of you wouldn't suspect that wanted to drug children. He's here to talk about that his life after On a Law Enforcement Talk Radio show welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. It's in the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, their realities of investigating crimes, plus those who have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crimes share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website letradio.com and also like us on Facebook, search for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. If you're on the Clubhouse Drop in audio chat app, be sure to look for me and follow me. My name's John the letter J. Wiley W I L E Y. You can also search for that's John J. Wiley W I L E Y T radio show. On the Clubhouse Drop in audio chat app. Calling us from California, we have Carlos Rodriguez on a law enforcement talk radio show. He is retired from the Washington State Police. See, he's a Washington retired Washington State Trooper during his career, which he'll talk in a few moments. He got involved in investigating crimes against children which we'll talk about. He also wrote the book the Ugly Underneath. The website is the ugly underneath.com Carlos A thanks for your service and B thanks for agreeing to talk about this on a law enforcement talk radio show.

[D]

Yeah, great. Thanks for having me by the way.

[C]

And police work is and I hate to say this, but One of the things that still bothers me is crimes against children. And that's not a field that most people want to get into and they don't volunteer for that. It's quite often I find that people like myself have a big aversion to these crimes against children and especially from so called loved ones. I just don't understand it to this day.

[D]

Yeah, you know, and when I first got into this work, I didn't even know that the Washington State Patrol even investigated these types of cases.

[C]

And what I had a former co worker on from Baltimore Police Department and he's retired, he worked and I can't remember the ICAC or something from Maryland State Police involving Internet crimes against children.

[D]

Yeah. And that's what the work I did, it was with the Missing and Exploited Children's Task Force and we were an affiliate of icac, which was the Internet Crimes against Children.

[C]

How did you get into that? Is that something you wanted to do?

[D]

No. Well, what had happened is I had just left, I was working the road and I was trying to get into work with our fusion center where they handle data and intel for Washington state. And that position got filled because I was trying to get back to work with a supervisor who I'd worked with for a while and he said, hey, have you heard of this task force? I think you should check it out. I think you'd be really good there. So in cross train there and I learned that they worked crimes against children and investigated people who were trading these horrific images of horrible things happening to kids. And I went to a warrant, I watched how they did everything. And once I realized what they, what was going on and how prolific it was, I thought, how can I not be doing this? I get that struck me a little bit differently.

[C]

I get that part. But here's the thing. And I don't get disturbed. There's an overused term, like people say you're haunted by memories and things that really bother me the most that are crimes against children, crimes of violence, sexual violence, doesn't matter what it is, and crimes against elderly, those are ones that come to mind first and foremost. And they usually show up when I don't want them to.

[D]

Yes. You know, I, I think for me, and it took me a while to figure it out, I didn't know why that I was able to do the work. And I. So it used to actually make me angry when other people would tell me, hey, thanks for what you do. You know, I couldn't do that. I've got kids and I would Think, you know, well, I've got kids. I do that. You're a cop. You should be doing this. You should be helping people. And it took me a while to realize that not everybody has the capacity to work these types of cases. Just like I can't go play basketball in the NBA. I can't build a rocket. I can't fly a jet. And it's the same kind of thing. And I realized that through life, there were certain things that helped prepare me to be able to do these types of things. I had compartmentalized things all throughout my life, which I think we all do. But at certain things where I just became really good at that. And then when I worked these cases, that's what I applied. And you're right. Over time, like the images. There are images in my head that I still can't get rid of no matter how hard I try. And I'll say, when I was doing the work, I didn't realize how much it had affected me. But it does affect you. And I think if you're out there doing this type of work, you don't really realize how much it affects you until you're not doing it anymore, because you don't have the need to compartmentalize things quite the same way. And you also don't have. Usually you don't have the same support structure, the same people that are in it. So it starts to. You start to see what type of toll that it took on you.

[C]

And one of the things. And by the way, that's. There's a couple buzzwords in the law enforcement industry. Compartmentalize is one of them that I hear all the time. And we're very. You've become very good at that after a while. The other one I hear is resilience and, you know, mental health, all that stuff. And I'll be honest with you, Carlos, I think that a lot of. Is just a lot of talk of window dressing when it comes to agencies and departments. They really don't seem to care too much about the welfare of their people.

[D]

Yeah, I'll say. When I first got to the task force, there was a wellness program that was new. It really wasn't implemented. As we went there, I ended up going to some training. It's called shift training. It's provided by the Innocent justice foundation, and it's provided to law enforcement that do this type of work. I'm very glad that I went to that because it really helped me, and it helped me put some safeguards in place for my people, for my detectives. And myself, I'll say I didn't always follow them myself because I think I took better care of my detectives than I did of myself. And so that is helpful. But, you know, the thing where you talk about, you know, sometimes it's just window dressing. You're absolutely right. When I go around across the nation and I meet law enforcement officers everywhere, you see people that are afraid to speak up about how things may be affecting them because they're afraid they're going to lose their position or they feel that they're damaged or broken. At my department, we ended up. We didn't use our. The psychologists that we had for the department. We ended up getting a contract with someone who used to work these types of crimes. And I was very fortunate that our administration got it as much as they could, because they didn't work the cases, but they supported us. And they allowed us to have that person on contract who used to do work the cases and then now had retired and provided therapy. And so if anybody needed to go speak to her, they would just go. And there were no questions asked. The bill would just come in. It wouldn't say who it was unless there was something that needed to be brought to the department's attention for the safety of that officer. But I'll say, I don't think we did that enough. I think it should be mandatory more often. It was once a year. And then people can go whenever they wanted. But really that wasn't enough. I would go at first because I was the boss and I wanted to show that, hey, I'm going, it's okay,

[C]

look at me, I'm okay. Nothing bad's happening.

[D]

But I didn't go enough. And then when I did go, it did help. It helped a ton of. So I think that's extremely important. And just if you're a supervisor out there, you know, when you say, hey, whatever you need, you know, we'll get it for you. You know, if you say that, you know, back it up. And what your people need, they need resources and they need your support. One of the things, you know, pat

[C]

on the back that I get periodically, I'm sure you get too. Oh, meet so and so my niece, my nephew, my son, my daughter, whatever it might be, they want to be a police officer. What advice would you give them? And the first thing I tell them is, you go every year and you see a dentist for routine checkups. You go every year to get a physical, get yourself a trauma informed therapist and start, get started. Be proactive about it before bad Things happen because you're going to get dinged up. It's inevitable. It's going to happen.

[D]

Yes, yes it does. And then don't wanna people and don't

[C]

wait for the department to order you to go because by then it's not good being on that radar. We're talking with Carlos Rodriguez. He's retired from the Washington State Police. He spent many years, which we'll talk about in a few moments, investigating crimes against children. And we'll talk about some of those in a moment. He's the author of the book the Ugly Underneath and his website is the uglyunderneath.com that's the uglyunderneath.com this is law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We will be right back. Get access to free podcast versions of the show and more on Facebook. Do a search for the law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to

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[C]

Contest. From great state of California, we have Carlos Rodriguez on the law enforcement talk radio show. Carlos is retired from the Washington State Police and yeah, I know he's living in California now. He's a west coast guy. During his career he investigated crimes against children, including a lot of sexual crimes, which we'll talk about in a few moments. He's the author of the book the Ugly Underneath and his website is the uglyunderneath.com that's the uglyunderneath.com Carlos, before we went to break, we started leading into some of your story. How long did you investigate crimes against children?

[D]

I investigated crimes against children for approximately eight years towards the end of my career.

[C]

That's a long time. And by the way, in Baltimore, I'm sure it's similar to the state patrol in Washington State. You've got to do your time on the street and that involves weekends, holidays, rotating, shift work, all that stuff. And I could understand wanting to get out and reach for anything. Is that what prompted you to do this?

[D]

No. I had the opportunity to go cross train with the task force I went to and once I saw what they did, I thought I need to do this. And so then I joined the task force there when we were kids,

[C]

much younger, much younger, I'm older than you are. But when we were kids, we were constantly giving the talk about the stranger in the van and he's offering you candy and look for his kitten, all that stuff. Beware, they're predators. Now it seems like a lot of that action happens online. Am I wrong?

[D]

No, you're absolutely right. There they, a lot of it does happen online. And I mean, there are still people out there. You know, most of these cases aren't some creepy guy in a park or a van, you know, that gets overly sensationalized. And then oftentimes I've seen kids, if a creepy person comes up to them or looks them at the playground, you know, they're not, they're not stupid. They usually figure out, hey, this guy's weird. The ones you got to worry about are familial people known to the family. And then online where they start to get kids to relax and think that they know them.

[C]

And with most crimes of violence, one of the things that my wife and I met her years at the retiring from police work is stranger on stranger, crime is very rare. It doesn't happen very often in crimes of violence. It's not the boogeyman down the street you got to worry about, it's the person that lives with you.

[D]

Yes. And you know, when I first started working these cases, I had to change how I talk to my kids because it used to be, hey, if somebody did this to you, they're never going to find them. Right. You'd have like, that's, I think, the knee jerk reaction that most people say. And then when I started working these cases and I started to see that most of the time it was someone known to the child, I thought I need to change that phrase because if something happens to my own kid, I don't want them to protect whoever it is and then just have that conversation with them that it's never their fault, it's never their fault. They didn't have a saying that no matter how guilty they feel or how or they think they're going to get in trouble, they're not going to get in trouble and that they can trust me and to be able to have that conversation with them, because that's one of the number one ways to prevent some of these things happening. It's not some app you put on your phone, which can help, but it's really having the ability to have a conversation with your kids that's Number one.

[C]

I think that goes a long way. And part of it is Carlos, and I want to know if this is familiar territory with you. I didn't want my kids to have to worry about me. I didn't want them to be thrust into adult roles when they were little. Of course, they're in their 30s now, but we had frank conversations and what is dad going to do to this guy? I didn't want them to be concerned about that.

[D]

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, even when I started, when I was in law enforcement, I didn't really talk about what I did around my kids, just in an effort to protect them from the things that I saw, whether it be when I was working crimes against children or when I worked narcotics. And I did those different things, and my kids didn't. Didn't really. Well, my son, he didn't even know I was a police officer, because when I think the last time I'd worn a uniform, he wasn't. He was just a baby. And he didn't really see me in a uniform until I had to, unfortunately, had to go to a funeral for one of my friends. And. And then he. He realized, oh, my dad's a cop.

[C]

I can imagine that conversation. Holy cow. That is the police.

[D]

Yeah, it was. It was. It was really sad. I mean, I remember when he saw me with the uniform, I picked him up and he grabbed my. My badge. And then he says, I want you to take this off. And I thought, no, I gotta leave that. I gotta leave that on, bub. And he's like, no, I want you to take the police suit off. And he told me it's because if, like, where the police suit, then the bad guys are gonna kill me. They'll know I'm the cops, and they'll kill me if I don't have it on, they won't know. And so at that point, I was like, okay, we need to have a talk with both our. With both my kids for sure, so they know I'm gonna be okay, you know, best I can. And I did the best I could. I mean, you can never. You can't ever tell what's gonna happen. You do the best to protect yourself and your team, but, you know, you really don't know. I'm very fortunate that I'm.

[C]

I need to really be aware of. And I'm very aware of now the shoulda, coulda, woulda. So I did the best I could. I worked narcotics for a long time, and the hair grows, the grows, all that stuff grows the clothing's different. And when I. Before I got promoted to sergeant, they put me back in patrol in a uniform car. And I was like, what a relief this is, people. Yeah, you got a target on your back, you know, but they know exactly who you're dealing with.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Did you feel that when your time in uniform was a little bit different than all the responsibilities were saying was a little bit different or a little bit more of a relief for you?

[D]

I'll say. You know, I didn't quite look at it that way. I think when I worked narcotics, people would always ask me, hey. I go, I don't know if I could do this, because we were trying to recruit someone into our task force. And he's like, I don't know if I could do this because I shot. We just did this by. Did a bye walk. And he's like, I shop at this grocery store. You know, what if I were to run into someone? And I told him, I said, well, think of it this way. If you're in uniform and you run into somebody and you're in plain clothes, they're gonna know that you're alone, right? But if you run into them and they recognize you, they're gonna look around and say, where's this guy's team?

[C]

Right?

[D]

And so then maybe it gives you an opportunity to do something. And then with those instances, I don't know if it happened to you, but I ran into. I think there's been three different times where I ran into someone that I had investigated, and one guy had gone to prison, and this time I was with my kid. But we had a plan as to what you. What we would do, and we got to implement the plan. I think he was like 8, and the plan was depending on what happened, on the severity of it, but with this one, I could just say, hey, bub, it's. It's time for you to go stand over there. That was the code. And he was, to my surprise, he was super surprised. I mean, super excited that he wanted. He was like, it's. Right now it's happening. So he ran to the end of the aisle and posted up. And then I had the conversation with. With the guy, and then nothing happened. I mean, the guy, actually, he. He was on contract. He was a CIA on contract, and he didn't live up to his end soon of going to prison. And then he had gotten out, and he actually thanked me because he said he messed up, you know, on his part, which surprised me. I wasn't right.

[C]

That's pretty rare. But does Happen.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

The closest I came to that was I was working with the dea and I came home early one day. For whatever reason, I was in a. A truly undercover car. I was in a Pontiac Firebird Formula 400. And there were two guys or targets of our investigation. And on our front porch. And they were like. Their cover story was, we're looking for apartments to rent. Nothing's for rent in our house. And I knew they were looking for me, so I called the uniformed troops. They came, they took care of business, and they interviewed them, and they left because there was nothing you could do as a free country. You could walk on front porches. We're talking with Carlos Rodriguez. He's retired from the Washington State Police. During his career, which we'll talk about in a few moments, he got involved for many years in investigating crimes against children. He's also author of the book the Ugly Underneath. And his website is the uglyunderneath.com. that's the uglyunderneath.com. don't go anywhere. I promise you. You don't want missiles coming your way. We'll be right back.

[F]

Someone asked, what's the catch? What's the cost? There is no cost for anything. On the law enforcement talk radio show and podcast website letradio.com L E T radio.com Again, that's letradio.com.

[C]

Current conversation with Carlos Rodriguez on the law enforcement talk radio show. Carlos is retired from the Washington State Police and he is contacted from California. He is author of the book the Ugly Underneath and his website is the uglyunderneath.com. that's the uglyunderneath.com. he spent many years investigating crimes against children. Before we get into this, one of the things that I rarely watch police videos and these undercover videos, the name that comes to mind the most often is Chris Hansen. And when he does the Catch a Predator and all this stuff, I'm like, look, it's one thing to be in a room interviewing someone. It's a suspect. I know the rules. Engagement, I don't keep my hands on myself. All that stuff. I know I gotta be nice, but I don't know that I could do that sort of stuff. Did you wind up getting involved with catching these and I'm air quoting predators?

[D]

Yes, I did. We actually ran. We called them Demand Ops. And we focused on people who are interested in having sex with kids ages 13 and younger. So I would run these undercover ops where we'd go into different cities around Washington state and we'd post up there for about a Week at a time, either in a house or apartments. And we'd set up, we'd have a command post, a place where the individual would go if they wanted to have sex with the kid. And then we go from there. So we chat with them undercover online. And we had received training through ICAC to do that, to make sure that we did everything the right way, because we knew we were going to before we did these, that we may be challenged in court, which we were sure. So we wanted to make sure we were doing everything the right way so that person would be held accountable.

[C]

How prevalent is this with sexual advances for people seeking sex with children online?

[D]

I wish I could tell you that it wasn't prevalent, but it's overwhelmingly a problem. I mean, it's an epidemic. It's as easy as ordering a doordash or going to the store and buying something, unfortunately. And it's not just on the darknet. It's out there on different social sites where people want to interact. That's where it's happening.

[C]

And part of this is, look, I think. And I had to learn to adjust. I'm sure you did too. But I think like a normal person. I don't think like a criminal. And what really helped me was, if I was a murderer, what would I do? Where would I go next? If I was this, what would I do? The problem is, a lot of these people, it's totally foreign that even they would even do this.

[D]

Yeah. Well, when I first. When I first did our first operation, I thought we were going to fail. I thought no one was going to show up. And within 10 minutes of me posting our first ad, we had hundreds of responses before it was flagged and removed. And so, well, here we go. And then we ended up, as we did each operation, we got better and we got more people who were trained to help us. Because my task force was small, I had two people, sometimes just one other detective and myself. And our area of responsibility was the entire state to help other people when they needed help and they didn't have our level of expertise. So we would travel around and as we started to get better at this and just more knew how to. More organized, we would average about seven arrests a night for someone seeking sex with 13 and younger. And we could do more. But when you run those types of operations, you have to look out for. You have to look out for your people. As far. And fatigue. Fatigue is really big because if you. If your people are tired, they start to make little mistakes. It could be in a report right it could be maybe they don't type something correctly. It could be your use of force could go up. So there are a lot of things you and you want to do everything the right way and to protect your people and to protect the case and then those you're doing this type of work for. So we would limit it to a certain time. But then if we had a target who still wanted to show up, we would just identify a small team and then we would handle that. And that's how we would do it. We just keep working it. And I said earlier that we would do these about a week at a time. If we were still communicating with someone that still wanted to do things outside of that week. We absolutely dedicated resources to it. But we would try to do these a week at a time because then we can bring all of these resources together. My little small team of one to two detectives, plus myself became 60 or 70 people that were subject matter experts that could, that could all had the same mission. And then we, so we got to do a lot of good in a short period of time. All the casework was done by the end of that time for the prosecutor in whatever area we went. And then it also minimized, yes, we had some overtime, but it minimized if you're just doing a one off or a two off, you could have overtime and then not even get anybody because they switched to a different date. So this time we could do that. And if they canceled one date, maybe they want to do counter surveillance for, to see if they're going, going to get busted. And then nothing happens. And then they say they show up, they go, oh yeah, okay, well, yeah, I'm ready, I'm ready now. So we were able to do that

[C]

one thing that and a lot of the about this amazes me and I don't think I'm easily shocked. After years of police work, nothing really surprises me. But when you said up to seven a night arrest, that is shocking.

[D]

It is. And as I did this work over and over, I had to remind myself that not everyone is bad in the world because you live in it and you see it so much. And then you're pretending to be a parent that's offering their kids for sex. You're pretending to be someone who has control of the kid, or you're pretending to be someone who's run away from a bad situation and is trying to do survival sex. There's all these different scenarios that we, and we based all of those off of actual cases that we've worked. So we Weren't making this stuff up. You know, you would think that this is made up, but it's not. These are actual. This happens. So we're not basing it on fiction. This is real. But you just have to start to remember, you know, you have to remind yourself that not everyone out there is like this. And then also, when you're off of work and you're going and you're interacting with your friends and other people, you have to remind yourself to sanitize things because you just become so used to that world.

[C]

Trust me, I'm not the guy you want to talk to at a barbecue about bad stuff.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Because I remember looks, some people's faces, they're really curious until you start telling them. They're like, oh, wait, wait, stop. I don't want to hear anymore. Stop.

[D]

Yes, yes.

[C]

And with you.

[D]

And I went to.

[C]

I really think that's a huge problem.

[D]

Yeah, I'll say. When I did that work, I would. I find. I try to. Because everyone wants to talk about what you do when you're a cop and you do stuff like that and undercover work. And I would have to sanitize it. And even when I sanitize it, it was still. I don't think, enough because it's just hard. All this stuff is just so ugly, and it's just hard to hear. But the other thing I found myself as I started to do is I started to. When I would come, shut things down so I could cope to do the work, I found whenever I went to social functions, I really didn't want to be around anybody because I didn't want to talk about it. And I wanted to just, you know, go off into a corner, do our time, get our food, and then get out of there and go home and just do something else to decompress. So. Because everyone wants to talk about what you're doing, and I really didn't want to talk about it.

[C]

No, I get that. And there's two questions I have for you. One is, listen. I imagine there is a significant other that gave you an elbow and ribs when you were talking too much.

[D]

Yeah. And I'll say she was really good. She was great. And, you know, part of doing this work is if you don't. And that's one of the things I go in the book. If you don't talk about this and you don't take breaks and you don't take care of yourself, it ends up affecting you, and it affects your family. Because, I mean, imagine if you're married to somebody and you just want to spend time with them. You want to talk about their day when they get home and things like that. And you're always leaving to go help some stranger. And of course it's a great cause you have to do that. But if you don't build in those times or that time before you go home. So something we would do is and I wasn't the best at it, but I had my people do it is we had to review something that was horrible to look at. They had to do something totally different for two hours before they could go home and to just to get right in their head. And sometimes it meant, you know, going and grabbing a some parking in the parking lot and doing something totally different. So that when you get home you're there for your family because they love you and they just want to be around you.

[C]

They just want you to when you

[D]

go home, how often do you get the 15 minutes you have to right.

[C]

We're gonna take a short break. On that note, we're talking with Carlos Rodriguez. He is retired Washington state trooper. Got involved investigating crimes against children there for eight years, including a lot of sex crimes. We'll return that conversation a few moments giving you a hint who is the most usual suspect. It's not often who you think. He's authored the book the Ugly Underneath and his website is the uglyunderneath.com this is law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

[F]

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[C]

Current conversation with Carlos Rodriguez on a law enforcement talk radio show. Carlos is retired from the Washington State Police and he did investigating crimes against children for about eight years. We'll return that conversation. A few moments that included a lot of sex crimes, which we will talk about. He's authored the book the Ugly Underneath, and his website is the uglyunderneath.com. that's the uglyunderneath.com. first of all, I can think about a lot of police work. And by the way, there was a shooting in Baltimore where a police officer was shot in the leg and survived. Thank God, a tourniquet. And the SWAT team sniper wound up killing. The guy is right in the area where I used to work. And it brought back a lot of memories and a lot of things that you said earlier in the conversation. I compartmentalized. I don't want that side of Jay to come out, but he's still there. He's still part of me. And other than being a patrol officer and encountering crimes against children, usually physical abuse, some sexual abuse, it was usually by loved ones. Those things can come to the surface quickly. And it's usually what I don't want, and it's usually when I'm. I'm not. You said a good point. You go do something for a couple hours afterwards. It's usually when I'm tired, emotional, I haven't eaten. That's usually when they tend to show up.

[D]

Yeah, I agree. And I think it's, you know, when you do the work so long and you're in there and you've turned off, you literally start to turn off your emotions. And then I like to say it's kind of like a. It's like when the light. Something doesn't work in your house and outlet, and you start flipping off the breaker switches. It's kind of like that. And eventually turn off the master breaker. Just when you turn it back on, they don't always work right. It's kind of the same thing. Like, that's. That's what I experienced. But yeah, it's like almost your homeostasis changes where you're just in a. And you're just high, go, go, go. And then down and go, go, go. You just. It just starts to lower. You start to change, and you got go do things. So then you're not always in that valley.

[C]

Sometimes I like to think of myself as being cured of all this and that there was another guy, another lifetime ago, and all of a sudden it's right back there with you. Did you ever feel like that was another part of your life or that was a different guy?

[D]

Yeah, I'll say. When it really started to know that it how I was to where I am now. It was when I quit doing the work, when I got switched to another assignment and then ret. And then when I moved down to San Diego, where I currently live now. And I didn't have the same support structure. Just little. I'd see little things or hear something and I just have a flood of emotion that would come back. And that's when I was like, hey, you know, maybe I should see someone about this because I haven't seen anyone in a while. And that's when I started to write. It was really more of a therapeutic journey.

[C]

I was going to ask you that. And by the way, I did an interview probably about six months ago with a guy who's retired San Diego county police detective or San Diego county sheriff's detective. And he specialized in crimes against children. He was in the longest shootout, prolonged shootout with a pedophile and in San Diego history. And I believe he's lost most use of one of his arms as a result of that. But it's a fascinating story. One of the things that. And before we go into your book, I've got to ask this question earlier. In Hollywood. I blame Hollywood for this. We have a stereotype about who the predator is. It's not often the case, is it?

[D]

No, it isn't. I mean, most people think it's, you know, like we said, the creepy guy or it's some insidious person or it's a male. But like example, I had a case where it was a young female, she was in her early 20s, and she's a mother, a sister. She was a nurse's, I think a nurse's assistant. So you would never think that she was someone that was trying to traffic kid and then trying to do. I won't go in all the details, but trying to do horrible. Seeking to do horrible things with. With two little girls.

[C]

It's amazing. Did that shock you when that suspect came when you found out who they were?

[D]

At that point in my career, no, because I had already, unfortunately, I had already had instances where I had seen things where, you know, I've had judges, firemen, other women. Because you don't usually see women, right. Teachers, you know, former police officers. Police officers. So, I mean, you, you just see the gambit and that's where, you know, go back to have to remind myself not everyone is like this. No, especially when he was a cop. I mean, when I was a cop, he's off so much because no matter where you are in the nation, whatever uniform you wear the society in our community sees us as all the same and they entrust us with. We're supposed to take care of them, right? And when somebody screws up, you know, that, that affects us all, everyone across the board.

[C]

Well, I'll just say this. We used to get punished for stuff that LA did in Baltimore. And we're like, well, look the other side of the country. I wasn't involved in that. Why? And it's because. And this is the one thing that I always say we wore in Baltimore. We were same uniform, we had what we could wear certain times of day, certain times of season, all that stuff. A lot of people had mustaches and we all look similar, but we were all different. And I still, to this day, when I see police that get caught up in these crimes against children, I am shocked and I am devastated.

[D]

Yeah, it hurts.

[C]

It's not supposed to be the case. I've never known anyone like that then, to be honest with you. I've never known anybody that was into excessive force or corruption that we didn't tolerate that stuff.

[D]

Yeah, well, you can't. You know, when you sign on for this job, you live in a glass house. And if you aren't, if you don't like that, then this is not the profession for you. You go do something else.

[C]

One of the things I always say this, and I'm sure you'll get this, is like. And I see this all the time, especially on social media, on our Facebook page. We get it all the time. Oh, yeah. Police are investing in their own. Ha ha. They're never going to find them guilty. Listen, we are not going to cover for someone and lose our health insurance for our family. We're not doing it.

[D]

No, no, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's more about, it's more about the mission than it is the single person. And then if you're, if you buy into that, you're, you're, you're screwing up the whole system. I mean, I, I never thought I'd be a cop. I did it because there was a member of our family that was killed by dui. And I thought, you know what I'm gonna be? I'm gonna be a cop. I'm gonna be state trooper because that's. What do they do? They're SDUIs. So that's why I, I joined this. And then it took me on this.

[C]

And now you are an author. Tell us about your book.

[D]

So my book is called the Ugly Underneath. It's Navigating the Emotional Toll of Investig It's a memoir of sorts that goes into some of the things that helped prepare me to do the work of investigating crimes against children. And it goes into there are some cases, but really it goes into how those things affected me and how I manage them, the good and the bad. So that if you are a law enforcement officer or you want to be a law enforcement officer and you're doing these cases, you can avoid some of the pitfalls I made and then you can improve upon my successes. And then if you're not in law enforcement, it really gives you some insight into those that are doing the work and hopefully garner some support for them because they need your help. And this problem is just overwhelming and it can consume you. So they really need your help. There needs to be more people doing the work so that we can help protect your children.

[C]

People get more information about the book and contact you on your website theuglyunterneath.com

[D]

yes, and I'm also if they want to reach out to me on TikTok or Instagram, it's Crodriguez. G U E Z is how you spell Rodriguez. So Crodriguez198 is the tag.

[C]

Awesome. And I got a quick question for you. The number one thing your father, I'm a father. Is my daughters are in their 30s now. But what's the number one piece of advice you give to parents or grandparents, uncles, aunts about protecting their children?

[D]

Number one is make sure you have a good relationship with your kid or those children. Because if you don't, if they don't trust you, if they don't trust to come forward when something happens. Because no matter what safeguards you put in place, something could still happen. So make sure you build the trust so that they know they can come to you with anything. And then besides that, be vigilant. Get to know if they're going to go stay at a kid's house. You need to. The parents need to know. They need to know you need to know them. And just don't feel weird about it and then explain things to your kids about if you're restricting them from something while you're doing it, just have that conversation. They may not like it, but they'll thank you later if they realize why you're doing it.

[C]

Well, my job as a parent is to prepare them for adulthood and we'll make sure they're safe. Carlos, thanks for your service and thanks for being a guest on law enforcement talk radio show telling us all about it. Both very Much appreciated.

[D]

Thanks for having me.

[C]

I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and Podcast. Until then, this is John J. Wiley. See ya. If you like the show, please take

[B]

a moment to rate, review and subscribe.

[C]

It really does help the show to grow.

[B]

Thank you for listening.