Police, They Said It Could Not Be Done, Undercover With the Crips

Summary

---

Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories

Episode Title: Police, They Said It Could Not Be Done: Undercover With the Crips
Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: Tegan Broadwater (Retired Fort Worth, TX Police Officer, Undercover Unit, Author, Podcaster)
Date: January 14, 2026

---

Overview & Theme

This episode takes listeners inside the harrowing, unconventional world of deep undercover police work, as host Jay Wiley interviews retired officer Tegan Broadwater. Broadwater shares how he embedded himself with the Crips in Fort Worth, Texas—a feat many said "could not be done" as a white officer—and the profound personal, emotional, and community impacts of his two-year mission. Beyond typical true crime, the episode explores trauma, moral conflict, and the need for broader solutions for communities affected by violence and incarceration.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Unconventional Journey Into Policing

• From Musician to Cop:
  • Broadwater shares his background as a professional drummer and music teacher who transitioned into police work after starting a family. (04:22)

    “I'm kind of a nerd by heart. A caring soul. I had to actually learn military bearing.”
    — Tegan Broadwater [04:22]

  • His lack of traditional law enforcement or military background was, in his view, beneficial, giving him "no bad habits" and a unique perspective. (05:20)

2. The Undercover Assignment 'That Could Not Be Done'

• Intentional, Not Accidental, Undercover Work:
  • Instead of ‘falling into’ undercover assignments, Broadwater purposefully pursued extensive undercover experience, transferring into high-crime areas to build credibility and “make a true impact on a neighborhood.” (14:32)
  • He leveraged his multicultural music experience and outsider persona:

    “I would be a great undercover for those reasons. And I think that hunch was actually correct.”
    — Tegan Broadwater [14:32]

• Strategy for Infiltrating the Crips:
  • Posed as a big-time dealer from South Texas to integrate into gang life, starting with small street deals and working upwards. Used patience, informants, and played the long game, ultimately gaining trust and climbing the gang hierarchy. (14:32-18:28)

3. Challenges, Skepticism, and Succeeding Against Odds

• Dealing With Skepticism

  • Both his sergeant and informants laughed at the idea of him successfully infiltrating the Crips due to his background and appearance. (27:48)

    “Both bursted out laughing... it just sounds preposterous.”
    — Tegan Broadwater [28:01]

• Navigating Race and Undercover Policing:

  • Broadwater addressed the obvious issue of being a white cop in a Black gang but stressed that in the criminal underworld, “the color that matters is green…. It wasn't about race.” (24:32)
  • He didn’t try to “blend in” but rather stood out and used that as an advantage, focusing on money and relationships. (25:21)

• Patience and Psychological Approach:

  • Instead of chasing quick deals, he built real, patient relationships and often told dealers “no” to increase his credibility. (26:16)

4. Emotional and Personal Impact

• Developing Real Bonds With Targets:

  • Spending two years embedded in the gang, Broadwater created genuine personal connections with many members, noting “I grew to really adore several of them,” which made the final round-up emotionally wrenching. (29:57, 32:20)

    “If you take the bad guy out of the personality and, and remove the sociopath, then you are left with a dude that I could totally hang out with.”
    — Tegan Broadwater [28:07]

  • He testified on behalf of certain defendants’ character at trial because he believed in their rehabilitative potential. (30:24)

    “I thought they held a lot of social redeeming value and the ability to rehabilitate... I would testify on behalf of their character.”
    — Tegan Broadwater [30:24]

• Coping With Betrayal and Aftermath:

  • Many former friends felt deeply betrayed; others refused to believe he was a cop. He does not blame them. (33:21)

5. Outcomes, Traumas, and Systemic Issues

• Case Results:

  • The case led to the takedown of 51 Crips, including solving 9 cold case murders; 41 prosecuted federally, 10 at the state level. (34:58)
  • The enormity and recognition of the case brought unexpected attention and emotional exhaustion.

• The Collateral Damage: Children and Community:

  • Broadwater realized the unintended side effect: 104 children in the neighborhood lost fathers to incarceration as a result of the operation. The cycles of violence and trauma perpetuate without intervention. (36:29)

    “We had 51 people now in prison and 104 children were now left without a father in a poor neighborhood. And I thought, well, I've only done half the job here, right?”
    — Tegan Broadwater [36:29]

• Purpose of His Book and Mission Now:

  • Wrote Life in the Fishbowl and started a podcast; all profits are donated to nonprofits helping children of incarcerated parents.

    “The book's not a Batman story... I share my affection and emotional toll that it took in order to arrest these people that I really grown fond of. So it's just kind of a real story that hopefully has a true purpose behind it now.”
    — Tegan Broadwater [40:04]

• Policing, Mental Health, and Social Change:

  • The conversation closes on the need for mental health resources for police, reform, and the importance of offering hope, education, and alternatives for at-risk youth.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Undercover Success:

  "One of the key factors to my success was telling people no... I'd say, ‘We don't move that kind of stuff, so I'm not interested.’”
  — Tegan Broadwater [26:16]

• On Relating to Gang Members:

  “If you take the bad guy out of the personality and, and remove the sociopath, then you you are left with a dude that I could totally hang out with. We have so much in common.”
  — Tegan Broadwater [28:07]

• On Betrayal and Empathy:

  "I couldn't blame them for feeling like you've betrayed me, you're not. I understand it totally."
  — Tegan Broadwater [33:21]

• On Unintended Consequences:

  “...104 children were now left without a father in a poor neighborhood. And I thought, well, I've only done half the job here, right?”
  — Tegan Broadwater [36:29]

• On Purpose and Healing:

  “The book's not a Batman story... I share my affection and emotional toll that it took in order to arrest these people that I really grown fond of.”
  — Tegan Broadwater [40:04]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:30] — Introduction of guest and unusual path to law enforcement
• [14:32] — Decision to work undercover and entering high-crime areas
• [18:28] — Crafting the cover and walking into the Crips operation
• [21:25] — Transition to FBI involvement and going deeper undercover
• [24:32] — Discussion on race, relationships in undercover work
• [26:16] — The importance of patience and denying deals
• [29:57] — Forming true bonds with targets, and the ethical complexity
• [34:58] — Results: 51 arrested, 9 cold cases solved, and the round-up
• [36:29] — Personal crisis: children left behind, birth of “the rest of the job”
• [40:04] — Systemic issues and motivation to write Life in the Fishbowl
• [42:00] — Changing policing, mental health, and current advocacy
• [43:28] — Closing reflections: purpose, legacy, and affecting change

---

Conclusion

In this powerful episode, Tegan Broadwater exposes both the utility and the emotional wounds of deep undercover work. Listeners will come away with a richer understanding of the complexities behind the badge—where success is measured not just in arrests, but in addressing cycles of violence and trauma that ripple through communities long after the high-profile cases close. The conversation is imbued with empathy, honesty, and a drive for real change—bringing a deeply human perspective to a world most will only glimpse from the outside.

---

Books and Contact:

• Life in the Fishbowl by Tegan Broadwater [Amazon]
• Tegan Broadwater Podcast & info: teganbroadwater.com

Host: John J. Wiley | letradio.com

---

For those seeking heartfelt stories from behind the badge, this transparent account of true crime, trauma, and hope is essential listening.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Andrew Yang, former presidential candidate and champion of getting more money into the hands of millions of Americans. I want to tell you about our new company, Noble Mobile, which is the first phone carrier that pays you to use your phone less. Did you know Verizon and AT&T paid out $18 billion in dividends to shareholders last year? That's money they make by overcharging you for data. Noble changes all that. You get unlimited everything on the T Mobile network. Plus when you use your phone less, you get up to $20 in cash back each month and we give you a 5 1/2% interest rate on it. Most importantly, Noble members use their phone 17% less each month because hey, people like money. And as a listener to this show, you can try noble for just $10 if you visit noblemobile.com and use the code yang10. Stop overpaying. For your data. Go to noblemobile.com yang10 and start getting paid to use your phone less today.

[B]

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[C]

He's retired from the Fort Worth, Texas Police Department. He worked undercover during his police career investigating a gang that a lot of people said he could not do for reasons he'll explain in a few moments. He's here to talk about the effects of long term investigation on him, his family, his personal life, the dangers of and more on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. In the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show, we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, their realities of investigating crimes, plus those who have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crime share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website, letradio.com and also like us on Facebook Search for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. One of the questions I get all the time is how can I show my support for law enforcement? We're all busy. We've got busy lives. But there's something oh so simple you can do with our Facebook page. Search for law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page and when you see a post you agree with that resonates with you, share it. Especially episodes of the podcast. To do all that, just search for us on Facebook, look for law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to click like Conte is from Texas. We have Tegan Broadwater on the law enforcement talk radio show. Tegan is a retired Fort Worth police officer who worked undercover for about two years, was assigned to the FBI, which we're talking a few moments investigating the Crips and some things that a lot of people could not do. And by the way, a lot of people know this. I was really good as detailed dea. I was really good at surveillance narcotics work. I was not good at undercover. It's a different thing altogether. And deep undercover sounds like it's a totally different skill set than regular undercover. And then you got guys like me. I always say this, Tegan, that I'm going to look like this. Even though I'm 85 years old. I look like the knuckle dragon Neanderthal cop. Even in the old folks home. And people say, shh, there's five, zero. And I'm okay with that, you know, because looks, understandable looks, there's nothing you can do. And I get this all the time. Number one, my daughters joke and they're in their 30s now. They joke quite often that when there were teenagers and boys were interested in them, they didn't want to approach them because of the looks I gave. And they're like, he's not a mean guy. He's just a retired cop. He just looks like that. Then I have this voice on top of it. So people are reluctant to approach me. And sometimes that can be favorable and sometimes not so much. But you describe yourself as a tall geek. Am I wrong?

[D]

Yeah, I do, yeah. Cause I'm kind of a nerd, a nerd by heart. You know, I have a caring soul and I had to actually learn military bearing, which I think most cops kind of carry with them. So that was just something, a learned behavior. For me, who was a retired professional musician going into law enforcement, that's something.

[C]

That doesn't happen automatically. Before we go into your story, Tegan is the author of the book Life in the Fishbowl. He has a Tegan Broadwater podcast and his website is teganbroadwater.com A lot of things are similar. I came from a military family. My dad was career Navy, but I was not. And when I went in police work, I didn't know rank I didn't know structure. I never touched a handgun before. And I had a calling, but it was something I was very good at. How would you describe your policing career?

[D]

I would say it's similar. I didn't have a military family or anything, but again, I was a professional musician for my entire life leading up to that until my late 20s. I decided to cut 8 inches of hair off and join a PD. But I think it was actually advantageous for me to have as little experience with firearms as I did. I'm being the top shot in my academy class and everything, because I didn't have any bad habits to overcome.

[C]

Me either. And the funny thing is, and I still get this way, I would get as nervous as kids getting a pop exam, a pop quiz that I didn't study for. Every time I qualify for the gun, I'm like, oh, what if I blow it? I never did. I was usually really, really good. And even into my late 60s, as long as I can see, I can still fire because I have to qualify once a year. But that was. And by the way, I'm assuming, like me, you're not a ballistics expert, you really couldn't care less about guns.

[D]

I really don't. I mean, I got friends who still, you know, if they get extra time, they want to go hit the range. That's just something that I do because I want to. I want to be functional. But I consider it a task. I don't consider it something I necessarily enjoy doing. That's just my personality, though. Nothing against it, obviously.

[C]

Now you're a professional musician, what instrument did you play.

[D]

Primarily? I played the drums. I went to College of Music to study drums and study jazz there. And when you're a musician in a college, you have to learn other instruments, Learning other instruments as well, and currently play several. But don't consider myself a maestro at all of them, of course, but still enjoy playing all kinds of music with all kinds of different instruments.

[C]

The biggest difference. And by the way, I'm not a maestro. I took guitar lessons for about 15 minutes, and I was like, no, this really sucks. I'm not doing this. But it looked really good. The guys really looked good at doing it. I was not one of them. The big difference is, and people say this all the time, I'm a professional broadcaster, I'm a professional podcaster because I get paid. That's the difference between someone who's really good at what they do and a professional. Just because you're professional doesn't mean you're always all that good?

[D]

Sure, yeah.

[C]

So your case. And by the way, it's not common for people to go from being in a band, being musician, going to college, into police work.

[D]

Yeah, it's just pretty atypical, you know, and it's atypical for somebody to actually make a living at music too. It's kind of a struggle. But I, I birthed a child and it made me think about life on the road. And I started getting frustrated with having to go play these dives in Oklahoma City or Little Rock, Arkansas and be away from home. So I had a few cops that used to come out and watch us play when we were in town. And I told them I was thinking about leaving the business, but I had no earthly idea what to do. And they're the ones that suggested police work. And I thought, oh, well, that sounds really wild. Can I sign up for water something? And they said no. And I still decided to give it a shot.

[C]

Here's the thing too, and I know stereotypes. They, I rebel against quite a. Many quite of them, most all of them, especially generalized stereotypes. Fort Worth is not a department that has a reputation where you go, oh, a long hair hippie freak joined the police department. And that's just not. That doesn't happen in reality.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, that's true. I actually there's. So there's a town that is kind of triangulates Dallas and Fort Worth and it's Denton and that's where I went to school to study music. And it's a, it's a big hippie town with a bunch of musicians and artists in it. And Dallas, of course, has a lot more of the glitz and glam and played a lot of my music out there. But I had, back in the day when they had music stores, I actually taught lessons. I had about 75 private students at three different music stores in Fort Worth. And that's what kind of brought me to this town in the first place. And it's not all boots and cowboys out here. Honestly, it's quite a big city. We moved to the 10th largest city in the US now.

[C]

And by the way, I had a guest on the show a long time ago, many on from Fort Worth, but one who's still active duty. His first name's Eric, He's a podcaster as well and his dad is retired Fort Worth cop. He's like, yeah, I'm from Minnesota, someplace like that. I'm going to chart my own course. I'm not going to go to that department. Guess where he wound up? Fort Worth. Police department. So here's the thing. And I clear, I say I look like a cop, I act like a cop. You would say that you don't.

[D]

I would say I don't. I have a great appreciation for cop work and what it did for my outlook on life and the way I carry myself. It was a necessity to get me where I am now because I was so much of a musician, hippie, I love everybody, everything's fine. And it gave me a perspective on the other side of the spectrum. So now I carry myself with a lot of confidence. I feel like I'm capable. I've done a lot of other things, but I'm also still my mindset is of a creative. I'm a writer. I still play music, you know, and I'm a podcaster, is somebody that, as you would know, spends a lot of time doing research and learning about things and trying to find interesting angles on stories and things like that. So I still pride myself on that. Even my entrepreneurial endeavor, you know, starting a business and just leveraging creativity to try to navigate that whole process. So I consider myself a creative that still carries themselves with a lot more confidence than I used to when I was just a hippie kid.

[C]

We're going to talk about that a little bit more. We're talking with Teagan Broadwater. After the break, we'll talk about that. He's a retired Fort Worth Police Department undercover officer. Two years working undercover in a group, you wouldn't expect that he could do it. He's author of the book Life in the Fishbowl. He's a Tegan Broadwater podcast and his website is teganbroadwater.com. it's spelled T E G A broadwater.com this is law Enforcement Talk Credit show. Don't go anywhere. We will be right back. You know, we used to have an app and it was very popular app. And then guess what? We couldn't hold a candle through our Facebook presence. How many people have the mobile Facebook app already installed on their phone? How many people use it on their computer? Make sure you follow us, make sure you like us on our Facebook page. Just search for law enforcement talk radio show and podcast and be sure to send us a comment to one of the posts. Best of all, it's 100% free.

[A]

Hi, I'm Andrew Yang. You may remember me as being the guy who wanted to get money into the hands of millions of Americans. Well, I'm still at it and I'm now the founder of Noble Mobile, the first carrier that pays you to use your phone less. With Noble, you get unlimited Talk, text and 5G data on the T mobile network and you can earn up to $20 cash back a month for getting off your phone. Try it for just $10 a month. Go to noblemobile.com yang10 that's noblemobile.com and use my code yang10 to get paid to use your phone less.

[E]

If you're an H vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[C]

Return conversation with Tegan Broadwater on the Law Enforcement Talk radio show. Tegan is retired from the Fort Worth Police Department in Texas. He worked undercover for two years investigating the Crips, which we'll talk about in a few moments. He's authored the book Life in the Fishbowl and he has a podcast called the Tegan Broadwater Podcast and His website is teaganbroadwater.com and spelled T E G A N broadwater.com and by the way, Tegan is a name you don't hear very often with men. I have a sister in law that goes that her name is Tegan and it's just not a very common name. So do you wear that with pride?

[D]

I do wear it with pride, yeah. And your sister in law must be really. That's all I gotta say.

[C]

The reason, by the way, my name is John Joseph, I'll go by Jay's family nicknames are all very common. But your police career and we talked earlier about you, you were a professional musician and all the things that goes along with that. And then you wound up joining the Fort Worth Police Department. What a lot of people. And I kind of laughed. You said I want to join swat and I hear people say oh, I'm going to go to the academ, then I'm gonna give him a homicide detective like yeah, it doesn't quite work like that. You gotta work patrol, usually midnights, usually weekends. And then you learn the job slowly. But you went into a phase of police work that is not common. That's working undercover. How did you do that?

[D]

Yeah, actually once I got in, I Spent my music career, which was, you know, span of 10, 12, 13 years, playing in multicultural bands and from a young age, really learning about different cultures, being the minority in the band and in the, you know, amongst the audiences and stuff. And I was a guy in high school that was athletic, but also had the creative side playing music. And I felt like I would be a great undercover for those reasons. And I think that hunch was actually correct. So I purposefully launched myself into transferring into the worst parts of town, or better put, maybe the, the highest crime rates of town, where mostly they are poor neighborhoods, and, and started teaching myself how to work undercover stuff until I could develop a resume that by the time I, you know, put in for narcotics, that for the fifth time, they, they took me because they couldn't deny that I'd made hundreds of buys and run 500 dynamic search warrants and everything else. But I really wanted to learn how to do extensive undercover work as opposed to these knock and talks and setting somebody up on the highway and taking them down with one single deal. It was really my goal to try to make a true impact on a neighborhood. And in one particular side of town, the chief and the city council had gotten together and tried to find ways that they could get this neighborhood rid of all the gang violence that they were experiencing, which comes with the territory, you know, selling guns and prostitution and drug dealing and all that kind of stuff. And this is just a poor neighborhood where these people can't just up and leave. They can't afford to. So they tried everything, jump outs, writing warrants, all kinds of stuff, and to no avail. And, and by that time I was in narcotics and presented to my sergeant at the time, and later an informant that I been talking with and said, hey, I think what needs to happen is I go in undercover, I pose as a big time dealer who just had his source busted by the feds in South Texas and is moving up here, trying to start a new hustle and infiltrate this street gang and work my way to the top. And we take them all down in the end. And so after they finished laughing, I said, no, I'm dead serious. And that's what I ended up up launching into. Just slow but sure. I started out on the street corners where they were dealing brack cocaine, which is obviously not going to get me to the head of the snake, right? So I would bring in an informant and say, hey, I'm. I'm trying to get this guy's, I'm funding this guy's hustle. So I'm not trying to do any deals with you people. So they would come in and give me all these questions, and I would just shun them off, like, hey, I'm way bigger time than you are. I don't play this game like you do. This is just for my partner over here. He's trying to get a hustle, and I would fund him, and in doing so, they would go to the passenger side window and do a deal with him, and I would hand him the money and hand them a few hundred bucks, and. And then they would see my face and start to realize us kind of bigger time and over periods of time, start working my way in. In that way. It took quite a bit of time, a few months, to try to, you know, to start getting really significant deals in the. In the works. But. But that's how I kind of launched this thing with the purpose of salvaging this particular neighborhood in southeast Fort Worth.

[C]

Well, you're kind of a rarity in that. In just my limited experience, most undercovers we had, they kind of fell into it. It wasn't something they sought out to do, and some were really good at it, and some, like me, were not. But you sought this out.

[D]

Yeah, I definitely did. And I felt like by then I had enough experience doing basic undercover work that I could get into this and kind of keep most of my personality intact in doing so. And like you mentioned earlier, undercover, long term undercover work is pretty rare, and deep undercover work is extraordinarily rare. And I happen to have a sergeant who just covered me, knew that I was a hustler. I kept in touch with him on a weekly basis as to who my targets were and what kind of progress I was making, because I was spending the entire team's weekly budget on buying these samples from all these fools. And he would just shield me from having to turn in reports and keeping them in the office. I kept all my reports generic and kept all the specifics on these guys close to the vest. And at my house, because I was so paranoid about having bad cops or any cop being able to read about it and just talking, even if they're just talking over lunch about something, I didn't want anybody knowing what I was doing. So I made quite a bit of progress in a short amount of time and. And then needed to just start ponying up because I kept coming to these cats and saying, hey, I'm this big time guy from south Texas. And it until I started actually ponying up money and stopped buying these samples, I was. I was going to be kind of stuck just blowing all of our narcotic unit money. And that's when we started shopping feds and ended up at the. At the FBI who have unlimited resources.

[C]

And by the way, the big thing with the feds is, man, the equipment, the money, they had stuff that we didn't have, and it made all the difference in the world.

[D]

Absolutely. And in particular, the FBI in this case had a gang and violent crime task force, and they had one FBI agent assigned to the gang unit to just adopt cases that guys would make. You know, they're at work in the streets and the gang in it. And so they were the only fed agency that wanted to take this on and leave me as the sole undercover. Because by the time I started shopping the feds, I'd been working undercover for eight months straight. And with the limited budget, I was going down there asking for people who I knew to be absent. And I would go down and say, hey, man, where's B. I'm down here looking for him. And then they would say, oh, man, he's not here. What can I get you? And I'd say, well, I'm not interested in that. I'm looking at some bigger stuff. But I would hang out and play video games or go down there and drive down and share a pack of Magnum 40s and start getting to know these cats on a different level so that I could start learning about learning the intel on gang life, since I was just kind of using the dope buys to get in to the gang as opposed to trying to jump myself in because I didn't necessarily match the profile. I was just trying to find a slick way in.

[C]

We're taking a short break. We're talking Teagan Broadwater. He is a retired Fort Worth, Texas, police officer. He worked undercover investigating crips. He has a podcast called the Tegan Broadwater podcast. He wrote a book about it called Life in the fishbowl, and his website is teganbroadwater.com we return, we talk more about working undercover. Why they say it could not be done. He did it and the effects on him. This is law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. I promise you. We'll be right back. One of the questions I get all the time is, how can I show my support for law enforcement? We're all busy. We've got busy lives. But there's something oh, so simple you can do with our Facebook page. Search for law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page, and when you see a post, you agree with that resonates with you. Share it especially episodes of the podcast. To do all that, just search for us on Facebook, look for law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to.

[A]

Click like hi, I'm Andrew Yang. You may remember me as being the guy who wanted to get money into the hands of millions of Americans. Well, I'm still at it and I'm now the founder of Noble Mobile, the first carrier that pays you to use your phone less. With Noble, you get unlimited Talk, text and 5G data on the T mobile network and you can earn up to $20 cash back a month for getting off your phone. Try it for just $10 a month. Go to noblemobile.com yang10 that's noblemobile.com and use my code yang10 to get paid to use your phone less.

[E]

If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[C]

Joining us from Texas, we have Tegan Broadwater on the law enforcement talk radio show. He's retired from the Fort Worth, Texas Police Department. He worked undercover for about two years, investing in Crips. He wrote a book about it called Life in the Fishbowl. He has a podcast called the Tegan Broadwater Podcast and His website is teaganbroadwater.com that's spelled T E G A N broadwater.com Now I want to get this over with, but first of all, I think we put way too much emphasis as a society on race. What I've always learned about criminal gangs in particular is they're motivated by one thing, the color green. That's more money than anything else. Number two, the secret to me for getting along with a lot of people, police work taught me this and, and going to seminary taught me this. And living a much longer life than I thought was get them to talk about themselves, not you. And if you are more inquisitive than you are of a talker, the better you'll go. Is all that true?

[D]

Man, that's true in spades. I couldn't agree more. And that's kind of how I started developing the trust of some of these gang members who again, had taken over this neighborhood. And as I would come in, flash, big money, which was, you know, between you and I, you know, a stack of 51s with 1020s on the top. Yeah, they would. They would start realizing that nothing was happening and that other people were getting to work with me. And I became kind of the coveted one. And although it's a, you know, African American street gang, again, I didn't approach it as trying to fit in. I was a guy that stood out and I leveraged standing out as something that I of kind could use to my advantage. Because it's like you said, it wasn't about race.

[A]

But.

[D]

But when you're driving into a neighborhood where you're the only white guy, then they're already going to get questions, right? So what you're doing there, and especially if you're going to go down there and try to do illicit business, then you're going to get 30 questions.

[C]

Exactly right. And one of the things, I had a guest on his retired dea, and he's, you know, a rather meek guy as far as physical appearance goes. And he cut his teeth working outlaw motorcycle gangs, working undercover. And he said two things. Number one, I stopped trying to be like them. I was, look, I'm a money man. I do money laundering. That's what I do. And he even turned down deals. No, that doesn't make sense. Because of whatever reason. And they fell in love with this guy because he delivered money, he delivered results until he delivered the hammer, which was getting arrested and having federal charges and the hammer that brings with it. Was that the case with you?

[D]

Yeah. I always say one of the, the key factors to my success was telling people no, because as. As you would know, when cops are trying to make a deal and they're only allowed to work a deal for, you know, a week or less or sometimes a singular deal, then they're trying to do everything they can to. To get a deal done right then and there. So I just took the opposite approach and would be patient and explained if they would try to sell me something. I'd say, man, we don't move that kind of stuff of town, so I'm not interested. But, you know, maybe we'll talk sometime. I'll see if I can get some samples from you or something, you know, but I'd rather not. Or if they give me too many questions and start asking about questions, I said, look, I've been in this business longer than you've been alive, and this is not how we do Business. So if you want to do some business, great. If you want to ask me a bunch of questions or ask to see my id, Then I got other business to do with some of your neighbors and you can, you know, kiss. They would, they would see me the next week, coming in and out and doing business with other people. And then they would say, hey, man, actually I'm. I'm interested in talking. And then, you know, we'd start adding on from there.

[C]

I'm sure that you had to be told early on. And by the way, just for those who come in late, Tegan is a white guy with a name like Tegan Broadwater. What did you expect, another race? And he infiltrated and worked undercover with the Crips in Fort Worth, Texas for a long time. But I'm sure you met with some people that. Nah, that can't be done. You don't quite fit the profile.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, like I said when I, when I first proposed this thing that I try to, to launch an infiltration, both my informant and my sergeant, who are the people that I pitched separately, Both bursted out laughing.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Because it just sounds preposterous, but I.

[C]

Think I would have laughed too, to be honest with you.

[D]

Yeah. And it's. I think I just had the confidence from my life experience at the time. I kind of just have always hung out with people from every walk and it's never seem difficult to me, you know, from working and, you know, playing gigs and rehearsing in the third ward in Houston, to being in a music and art school, to becoming a cop and dealing with all kinds of different people in the community, it just was second nature to me. So I just leveraged my own ability to relate to people in a personable way and like you said, ask questions of them that aren't interrogative, but more questions about, about them as people. You know, what do you drink? Next time I roll down here, I'll, you know, I'll bring a six pack or, you know, what kind of, what kind of football teams you like. And this is where I started really relating to these folks on a personal level, because I've, you know, spending up to two years with these folks, sitting in their houses and beating them at Madden to get my street cred on, or sharing a beer and talking about cowboys football, or they're masking me to introduce them to cheerleaders at the, at the university across town. This, this taught me that if you take the bad guy out of the personality and, and remove the sociopath, then you you are left with a dude that he could totally hang out with. We have so much in common. I think a lot of people would agree that criminals are the one type of people that nobody has much in common with. But these guys actually had a ton in common with me, and I grew to really adore several of them. There were plenty of them, mind you, that I wished to go away forever. But there were also several that I really did like as people, and it caused quite a bit of strife knowing that they were going to go down for this.

[C]

I'm glad you brought that up, because I had a guest on a long time ago, Joe Pistone. A lot of people know him as Donnie Brasco, former FBI. And he talked about the stress on him, his family, his wife in particular, working undercover. But he never lost sight of who he was. But one of the things that took away from the conversation with Joe was that you developed friendships with these people. How difficult was that for you?

[D]

Yeah, and I actually know Joe, and I've spoken to him recently, and I studied Joe when I started getting into this stuff. And unlike him, I did have the ability to separate, which is why I completed the case, because I kept in mind the ultimate goal was to free these poor people in the neighborhood who couldn't even walk their kids to school because of the amount of violent crime that was happening. But at the same time, unlike him, I had a very, very difficult time navigating the responses from the guys once we announced, you know, 18, 20 months later, guess what? T is not actually this narco kingpin from South Texas. He's actually working with the feds, and he's been undercover all this time. Some of them refused to believe it because they knew me so well. They couldn't even square it in their minds that I was a cop. Other ones were so off that they just told me to pound sand. And I had high hopes that they would talk and cooperate so they could get less time. And the ones that cooperated, I assured them that if they cooperated, I would. Only the select few that I actually. I promised them that I would testify on behalf of their character and actually got on the stand seven times in support of some of these folks in order to tell the judge that I thought these people deserved some leniency because I thought they held a lot of social redeeming value and the ability to rehabilitate. And once they saw that I was going to keep my word there, I did get a little bit more support. But it was kind of heartbreaking, to be honest, with you. I understood why they didn't trust me anymore and told me to pound sand. But at the same time I, I know myself and internally I'm just thinking dude, I'm really trying to help you. Like I really like you, I really want to help you.

[A]

But I couldn't blame hi, I'm Andrew Yang. You may remember me as being the guy who wanted to get money into the hands of millions of Americans. Well, I'm still at it and I'm now the founder of Noble Mobile, the first carrier that pays you to use your phone less. With Noble, you get unlimited Talk text and 5G data on the T mobile network and you can earn up to $20 cash back on month for getting off your phone. Try it for just $10 a month. Go to noblemobile.com yang10 that's noblemobile.com and use my code yang10 to get paid to use your phone less.

[B]

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering with on time restocks. Your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[D]

In them. For feeling like you've betrayed me, you're not.

[C]

I understand it totally. We're talking with Tegan Broadwater. He's retired from the Fort Worth Police Department in Texas. He worked undercover for two years investigating crips. He wrote a book called Life in the Fishbowl. His podcast the Tegan Broadwater Podcast. Check it out. And his website is teganbroadwater.com that's spelled T E G A N broadwater.com this is law enforcement talk radio show. We're going to do a short break. We're going to talk about life after. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Be sure to check out our website letradio.com that's L E T radio.com there you'll find episodes of the show available as a podcast after airing on radio. And they're always free. There's 700 plus episodes on there right now. There's blogs. Get information about our sponsors. All that and much [e-mail] again the website is letradio.com. Return conversation with Tegan Broadwater on the law enforcement talk radio show Teagan is retired from the Fort Worth Police Department, and he wrote a book called called Life in the Fishbowl. He has a podcast called Tegan Broadwater Podcast and his website, teaganbroadwater.com. he spent two years working undercover investigating the Crips, which they said couldn't be done. And by the way, you wrapped it up, you got a lot of rest. And what was the final outcome? I know there's more than one defendant, so generalize is good.

[D]

Yeah, we, we ended up at the roundup. We, we took down 51 Crips, and 41 of them went federal, and the other 10 were prosecuted in the state. We solved nine cold case murders because, you know, once you start cooperating, we're no longer interested in finding out where Jojo's hiding the kilo. We'd like to know where the bodies are. So we, we made a lot of headway there. But again, as I said, I was, I was growing to be friends with a lot of these folks after spending this amount of time in. And so, so it was an emotional time. I felt really accomplished. I was taking no credit, as undercovers are not designed to do. So this thing wrapped up, and then they had the head of the gang unit in Fort Worth and they had the FBI agents and the sack of the FBI talking about this and that because it was one of the larger cases that they had, and it was nominated for the case of the year, et cetera, et cetera. And so it was really stressful. My wife talked me into staying in law enforcement just to see if I could lower the level of emotional turmoil.

[C]

How does one do that? How do you go, how do you take a step back and say, okay, all of a sudden, look, when I got promoted to Sergeant Tegan and I got transferred to a different district, it was like night and day, parts of district, other parts were fine. And guess what? I gravitate to. It's a high crime areas because I can't go back. How do I become less of what I was?

[D]

Yeah, I, I, I never could see that path. And that's just a path that my wife thought that I could. You know, she saw maybe some leadership in me that would only come later in life. To me, it was, I felt so exhausted and emotionally drained that I felt myself for that last year, after this operation was over, just, I'm a hustler, I'm a go getter. I always, I'm leaving the latest and I'm showing up early, and I'm out in the car when they're having their rol and I was not behaving that way for the last year. And I was so disappointed in myself. It only added to my anxiety about how I was functioning because I wanted to be the top performer and I was losing motivation. And I think it was an emotional response to all this. And at the same time, some guys, some supervisor and another officer had nominated me for police officer of the year, which then exposed the fact that it was me to the public that was the undercover and started garnering some attention. So, you know, movie production companies and all these friends and everybody saying, oh, you should write a book and all this kind of stuff. And. And I had no motivation to write a book either because undercover workers is selfless. It's not a self serving thing. It is exciting and it's fulfilling, but it's on a personal level because you're staying incognito. However. However, after we did all the debriefs of these guys and found out that some of these guys had two and three kids within a year's time, they couldn't remember some of the middle names. I found a guy that actually introduced me to somebody who was just outside of the neighborhood that we had infiltrated and he had started a nonprofit that mentored children of incarcerated and murdered parents. Then I had an epiphany and I thought, this is why we write the book. Because during this process, I did this motivated by actually salvaging a neighborhood, but recognized after realizing that we had 51 people now in prison and 104 children were now left without a father in a poor neighborhood. And I thought, well, I've only done half of the job here, right? So now the way we fix this and solve this and stop the cycle of violence is, is I write the book and we donate all the profits to this particular entity that mentors children of incarcerated parents and have since also donated many other organizations that support the same type of thing. And that's really the kind of work that I am doing now. Everything I do helps to promote that there has to be some long term solutions in place. Arresting the people is absolutely necessary and it's important. But taking care of the kids and teaching them that their ceiling is high and not low and that the alternatives are rewarding and teach them how to apply for jobs and write checks and, you know, do all the things that you normally would.

[C]

Heck, I wish people taught me that. Look, I understand totally, because one of the most frustrating parts being a police in Baltimore. I know people that have had two sons murdered and they have other ones in prison, and they're. They're trying to hold as normal life as possible. And they have the grandkids living with them. And it's. You talk to the grandkids, and it's like, they've never been out of the neighborhood. They might go on a field trip to the Inner Harbor. They don't know what they don't know, and it's not their fault. They don't know.

[D]

Right. Yeah. And so they're. They're. They're just more likely to fall into the same cyclical trap. And that's. That's where we have to really focus on. You know, I'm all for prison reform and making it into something where some of these guys get out and they are reformed and they become great guys. And I have had pen pals from this case that I've written since 2008 and have gotten out, and we've stayed friends. But the vast majority of these. These people have fathered so many kids that they weren't even fathers to really when they were around, but certainly when they're not around, lend the situation to become another statistic and cause another agent to go in and risk their lives in 20 years to do a bunch of more arrests. And we've got to stop that somehow. And that's what I realized. And so that. That was the whole purpose of writing the book. The book's not a Batman story. It doesn't make me into superhero. It's all realistic stuff. It's stories that actually happened. And I share my affection and emotional toll that it took in order to arrest these people that I really grown fond of. So it's just kind of a real story that hopefully has a true purpose behind it now.

[C]

And that's called Life in the Fishbowl's name of your book.

[D]

Yes, Life in the Fishbowl. You can get that on Amazon. Used to be in bookstores, but, you know, bookstores are. There's been a lot of distributors go out of business.

[C]

Right. So look for Life in the Fishbowl. And all the proceeds go to benefit and help children of incarcerated individuals. And I. Look, I would. I'm. I'm not saying it's being mean, but I walked into police work, and I knew more cats like you that. That were idealistic than those who were not, and they wanted to save the world. And to some degree, I want to save the world as well. I want to do everything you want to do, but my world got destroyed and devastated in the process. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. There's A lot to be said about that. I think there's a lot more awareness now of the need for mental health assistance for police officers. It was kind of being in development when you and I were going through this stuff, and I think that I've found my respite in, in, in the purpose of the book and which essentially has turned into a podcast. And, you know, the music that I do and everything else is really just trying to, to help make a positive impact once you start seeing outside of yourself that the earlier we can teach these people, the better. And I don't know how modern policing is. I've been out of the business for a long time now, but I didn't have that same experience you did. I think I had, I went to, into police work with a lot of run and gunners. I had lots of guys, and there's nothing wrong with, hey, I want to go chase bad guys and put them in jail. And that's kind of the motivation. It was an exciting job and it was still noble, but I think now you have a lot of people that are coming around that really do want to make social change for the better and, and, you know, leverage police work to do just that.

[C]

Well, that's part of the reason. That's part of the reason why I do what I do. And to use an overused phrase, I put a lot of purpose to my pain. It is a mission to what I went through. The bad stuff from the past is not as bad as my present. How would you describe what you do today and how you feel today?

[D]

Look, I still see a giant mountain to climb, but I also have developer perspective with life experience. And so I just try to affect, you know, one person at a time. I don't, I don't get too far out in front of myself because being frustrated over the process is just going to join the crowd because everybody's politically and emotionally frustrated trying to get their way. And this isn't about trying to get my way. This is really trying to teach people to see outside themselves and get out of that whole mindset. So I just, I think my perspective is a lot more correct, calm, and a little bit more purposeful in the types of things. And the people that I, that I hang around, the people that I interview, the types of messages that we want to put out are, are really purposeful in order to bring more community together. Because I think guys like you and I don't get a chance to, you know, get put on the news, those people are a little more crazy.

[C]

Right. If it bleeds it leads is what is and so much police work in general is misinformation. Tegan Broadwater's book is called Life in the Fishbowl. His podcast at Tegan Broadwater Podcast. His website is teaganbroadwater.com Tegan, thanks so much for being a guest on the show. Very much appreciated.

[D]

It's been an honor, sir.

[C]

I'd like to thank our guests. We're coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of the Law Enforcement Talk Raider show and Podcast. Until then, this is John J. Wiley. See ya.

[A]

Hi, I'm Andrew Yang. You may remember me as being the guy who wanted to get money into the hands of millions of Americans. Well, I'm still at it and I'm now the founder of Noble Mobile, the first carrier that pays you to use your phone less. With Noble, you get unlimited Talk, text and 5G data on the T mobile network and you can earn up to $20 cash back a month for getting off your phone. Try it for just $10 a month. Go to noblemobile.com yang10 that's noblemobile.com and use my code yang10 to get paid to use your phone.

[E]

Like if you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[D]

If you like the show, please take.

[A]

A moment to rate, review and subscribe.

[D]

It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.