Public School Failure In Baltimore: Is It Spreading Like Cancer

Summary

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Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories

Episode: Public School Failure in Baltimore: Is It Spreading Like Cancer?

Host: John “Jay” Wiley
Guest: Chris Pabst, Investigative Journalist (Fox 45 Baltimore), Author of Failure Factory
Date: February 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the chronic failure of the Baltimore City Public School system and examines whether these issues are spreading to other cities across the United States. Host John “Jay” Wiley speaks with investigative journalist Chris Pabst, author of Failure Factory, about his deep-dive reporting into the roots and repercussions of failing urban schools, systemic inequities, and the interplay between education, crime, and poverty. The conversation draws on Pabst’s investigative findings, highlighting troubling trends and sparking a larger dialogue about public education’s trajectory and its nationwide implications.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Baltimore: A City With Potential Hampered by an Education Crisis

• Baltimore’s Decline Linked to Schools:

  • “This city has absolutely everything that it needs... So why did the city once have a million people and now it's down to 550,000 and shrinking almost every year?... I think it's because of a failing public education system.” – Chris Pabst (05:26)
  • Host and guest reflect on the city’s assets (history, location, architecture) versus its economic and social decline.

• Systemic Urban Decay:

  • “If you're driving around as a police officer, you see the 15,000 blighted homes that are boarded up and have trees growing out of them.” – Chris Pabst (03:55)
  • The visible distress in the city is seen as a symptom of deeper institutional failures.

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Alarming Educational Data & Outcomes

• Resource Imbalance:

  • Baltimore schools receive extremely high funding (~$1.8 billion/year, 38% increase in 8 years), but performance remains dismal:
    • Graduation rate: 70% → 71% in 8 years.
    • Only 12% of students proficient in math; 25% in reading (12:10, 13:34).

• Disconnect Between Graduation and Proficiency:

  • “How do you have 71% of your kids graduating, but 12% of your kids are proficient in math?” – Chris Pabst (12:58)

• Low Standards and Minimum Accountability:

  • Many students are pushed through the system regardless of academic proficiency.
  • Discipline has been significantly relaxed: annual arrests dropped from 900 to 18 (15 years), keeping disruptive students in classrooms (14:39).

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Systemic Priorities—Funding Over Education

• Administration vs. Education:

  • Much of the increased budget is absorbed by administrative salaries and positions, not by improving classroom outcomes.
  • “The public education system is no longer prioritizing educating kids. It’s prioritizing the acquisition of funding and then using that funding to hire more adults... to grow the power and political influence of public education.” – Chris Pabst (17:43)

• Impact of Poverty and Generational Cycles:

  • Lack of mobility for families entrenched in the failing system; parents were themselves products of the same underperforming schools (21:36).

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The Broader Crisis: Is Baltimore an Outlier or a Warning?

• National Trends:

  • Similar patterns observed in other cities like Philadelphia and Palm Beach County; host notes policies and dysfunction spreading.
  • “It's not just happening in Baltimore. We can see this happening in many other places.” – Chris Pabst (06:08)

• The Importance of Public Education Nationwide:

  • “90% of the kids in America are going to public schools... We cannot allow our public schools throughout America to go down the route that Baltimore has gone down.” – Chris Pabst (23:16)

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Solutions: Policy and Political Will

• Holding Systems Accountable:

  • “There’s really two solutions here. There’s a policy solution, and there’s a political solution.” – Chris Pabst (26:15)
    • Political: Elect officials willing to fire failing school leaders and demand accountability for poor outcomes.
    • Policy: Reinstate meaningful discipline; remove disruptive students; empower teachers to manage classrooms.

• Incentive Problems:

  • School funding is tied to enrollment, so there’s a disincentive to suspend, expel, or otherwise remove students, regardless of disruptions (28:19).

• No-Cost Fixes:

  • Policy changes—particularly around student discipline—would require little to no new money, only resolve and change in practice (27:19).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Dysfunctional Public Education Priorities:

  • “Instead of what works, we do what sounds good.” – Chris Pabst (14:06)

• Generational Impact:

  • “Many of the parents were undereducated by the same school system that their children now attend... that's what really has created this perpetual cycle of generational poverty.” – Chris Pabst (21:36)

• On the Response to Exposing These Issues:

  • Pabst details the personal blowback—including racial hostility and threats—he received for reporting the truth:
    • “When I started reporting on all of this, I did get a lot of blowback... why is this white guy coming into a black city and reporting on these things? This is our city, not his.” (32:14)
    • Nevertheless, he eventually earned respect:
      • “By 2023, I received a state level honor from the NAACP... for the work in Failure Factory.” (34:34)
  • “If we're going to turn the problem around, we have to admit that there is a problem.” – Chris Pabst (35:39)

• CEO Compensation Amidst Failure:

  • “$500,000 a year... to run a school system where 12% of the kids are proficient in math.” – John J. Wiley (38:06, 38:12)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:21: Chris Pabst describes arriving in Baltimore and seeing its struggles.
• 05:26: Baltimore’s decline and its link to education.
• 08:56: Per-student spending, stagnant graduation rates.
• 12:10: Math proficiency—only 12%.
• 13:34: Reading proficiency—only 25%.
• 14:39: Discipline crisis; arrests drop, disruptive students remain.
• 17:43: System funds administration, not education.
• 23:16: National implications of public school failure.
• 26:15: Solutions—political and policy-based.
• 32:14: Blowback and racial hostility faced as an investigative reporter.
• 34:34: Recognition by the NAACP despite initial resistance.
• 38:06: CEO making $500,000 despite systemic failure.
• 39:37: Motivation for writing Failure Factory.

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Conclusion

Chris Pabst and John Wiley paint a grim but urgent picture of the state of public education in Baltimore—and warn of the broader national implications. Their conversation underscores the need for transparency, accountability, and political courage to reform systems that serve administrative interests over student achievement. Pabst’s reporting and Failure Factory urge communities nationwide to scrutinize their own schools, demand truthful data, hold leaders to account, and ensure that public funding yields meaningful educational results.

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Transcript

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[John J. Wiley]

News he's an investigative journalist for Fox 45 News in Baltimore. He wrote the book Failure Factory where he focused and investigated Baltimore City Public Schools. Question is, did what he find is that going on across the country? We think yes it is. And the alarming trends response he gets from people when he brings them back news welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. In the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, their realities investigating crimes, plus those have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crime share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website letradio.com and also like us on Facebook, search for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. If you want to be a guest on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show, simply contact us. It couldn't be easier. You can send us a message on Facebook, look for and like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show page or email jetradio.com that's J A Y etradio.com joining us from Baltimore, my old stomping grounds. We have Christopher Pabst on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show. So Christopher is an Investigative Journalist for Fox 45 News in Baltimore. He's also author of the book Failure Factory. His website is ChrisPapstown. We talk about Failure Factory. He's talking about a very serious investigation he did about Baltimore City Public Schools. And while a lot of people know I'm retired Baltimore Police, there have been long Standing long problems of Baltimore city schools. The question is, is this a nationwide thing? Is it having big cities, small counties in between loc? I say yes. Christopher, thanks for being guest on the show and thanks for your service. Both very much appreciated you as well.

[Chris Pabst]

Thank you so much for having me on.

[John J. Wiley]

By the way, Baltimore is a unique place. I say this before because I have a love hate relationship with Baltimore. I love Baltimore. I love the people of Baltimore. I love the Northwest district, I love Central District, the City hall, not so much.

[Chris Pabst]

Yeah, Baltimore is a really struggling city and it's a place that I'm. I'm not from, I'm not from Baltimore. I'm from southeast eastern Pennsylvania. And when I first came here In January of 2017, it was something that was. It was really foreign to me because I had never really been in a city like this one that is struggling so much. And what I mean by that is every single year you see that Baltimore is named one of the most dangerous, deadliest places, not just in America, but in the Western hemisphere. You see the population flight, you see 20 to 25% of the people living in poverty. If you're driving around as a police office, you see the 15,000 blighted homes that are boarded up and have trees growing out of them. It's a really struggling place. And the whole concept of failure factory. My book is that this is happening largely because of a failure of a very expensive public education system to properly educate the people in the city.

[John J. Wiley]

I agree with you 150% on that. And just going from my own history, number one, I said I loved Baltimore. I spent most of my teenage. I was. I grew up in Norfolk, Virginia. My dad's career Navy. But we moved to Southern Maryland and that's where I went to Baltimore. And I loved Baltimore. I love the Chesapeake Bay. I love the attitudes. I love the, for lack of better words, I love the, the ambiance of Baltimore. What I did not like and most of my problems came from city hall, not from the bad guys. And there were plenty of bad guys in Baltimore.

[Chris Pabst]

Well, that's the thing that when I said that I'm not from here, when I came here, it's not like anywhere I've ever been. You know, I used to live in Washington, Washington, D.C. i grew up outside of Philadelphia. I went to college in Pittsburgh. I used to live in Madison, Wisconsin. So, you know, I have experience with cities. And the thing about Baltimore that I really tell people is this should be a destination city. This city has absolutely everything that it needs. It has an incredible climate. You get all four seasons. None of them are severe. It has history with Fort McHenry and the Star Spangled Banner. It has the bay, it has inner harbor. It has architecture that is stunning throughout this city. And just look back, the city is hundreds of years old. It's absolutely beautiful. So why did the city once have a million people and now it's down to 550,000 and shrinking almost every year? Why did people move out? Why is business not moving in? Why are the economic conditions deteriorating and not getting better? And my whole argument is I think it's because of a failing public education system. And I, I wrote Failure Factory really is a warning throughout the entire country because it's not just happening in Baltimore. We can see this happening in many other places. When you find an area that is struggling, you generally find a low performing public education system. And I don't think it's a chicken or the egg kind of thing. I think that it's a public education system is not providing the education to the people that is needed for that community to thrive.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, a lot of things that people don't realize about Baltimore, they have a slightly different corporate structure for their school systems, and they're the most expensive in the state per student, and they have some of the worst results. And they've had the worst results. When I was policing in Baltimore in the early 1980s through 1992, our population, I think when I came home was about 880,000 and we had a murder rate that was about 300 plus a year. I went to Baltimore, went to Ireland recently on vacation. They had 4.75 million and they were gassed. They had 6,600 homicides for the country. And I was like, why does Baltimore have so many homicides and so few people?

[Chris Pabst]

It has been a problem that has been plaguing the city for quite some time now. Recently, over the past two years, the homicide rate has fallen. So as I said, the city is right around 550,000. Now, you said you were here and it was in the 800,000. Now it's in the 500,000. And the murder rate was about 350 people a year. With a city of 550,000 now, the rate has fallen. And I think a lot of that. This is a wholly different con, this is a wholly different podcast for you. But from looking at it and living here, I think a lot of it has to do with a new state's attorney came in. And this state's attorney has a different approach to prosecuting crimes. And certainly more people are being prosecuted, more murders are being. There's more arrest for murders and other type of crimes. And I think those things have really had a positive impact on the murder rate in this city.

[John J. Wiley]

Before we get into your conversation about public schools in Baltimore and what you see as a problem, and I agree, I think there's huge problems. And I don't believe it's just confined to Baltimore. I think it's almost like a cancer. It's spread across the country, even in Palm beach county, where I'm currently in Florida. I'll give you an example. There is a young girl that I know her father very well, known him for decades. She is a good student. She has some health issues, but she's just shy of her 18th birthday. And because she missed so much class, they canceled due to state her learner's permit, so she can no longer drive and has to take a bus to school. There's no buses. Well, the good news, she can get that when she turns 18. This is part of the problem that goes on, I think, not just in Baltimore, but everywhere.

[Chris Pabst]

Well, the problems in Baltimore are, I think, I would argue, much more severe than that. So what we have here is we have a school system in Baltimore city that gets $1.8 billion a year, which a 30% increase over.38% increase just over the past eight years. So the school system is getting about 500 million more dollars a year now than it did eight years ago. And the graduation rates are nearly identical. Eight years ago, the graduation rate was 70% and now the graduation rate is 71%. So taxpayers have given this school system a 38% increase in funding and graduation rates are up 1%. That is largely the problem. And the taxes are so high.

[John J. Wiley]

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm just going to paraphrase. In Baltimore city schools, all the schools for the entire city, I think only 1% pass basic math. 1%.

[Chris Pabst]

And you mean our. You're saying. So the number of schools that are. The number of kids that are at grade level.

[John J. Wiley]

Right. And the thing is, these are bright kids with bright futures, but they are. They're warehoused, for lack of better words. We're talking about Chris Pabst. He is an investigator reporter for Fox 45 News in Baltimore. He's authored book Failure Factory and his website is Chris Pabst.com that's spelled C H R I S P A P S T dot com. Unlike the beer, there's no B papst dot com you can find us on Facebook. Look for and like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show Facebook page this law enforcement Talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. There are more than 700 free podcast

[Chris Pabst]

episodes of the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Episodes are converted to a free podcast after airing on radio.

[John J. Wiley]

You're bound to find a podcast episode

[Chris Pabst]

that suits [e-mail] letradio.com that's L E T radio.com.

[John J. Wiley]

Return to conversation with Chris Pabst on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show. Conte is from the Baltimore, Maryland area where I'm retired from the Baltimore Police Department. Great memories. I got a love hate relationship with that city. He is an investigative journalist for Fox 45 News in Baltimore, which also have a love hate relationship with the news media. Be honest with you. And I do have the I brag about this. I was interviewed by Oprah Winfrey when she was news anchor for TV 13 in Baltimore. So it was a long time ago. Not the Oprah Winfrey we know today. He wrote the book Failure Factory and his website is Chris Papps.com that's Chris P A P S T.com Chris, we talked I'm paraphrased what the basic math efficiency rate is of students in Baltimore and you have a clarification on that number, don't you?

[Chris Pabst]

So the throughout Baltimore city of the 76,000, 75,000 kids in the school system, 12% of the most recent numbers are 20, 25 numbers. 12% of the students are proficient in math, which would mean 88% of the kids in Baltimore city are not proficient in math. And this is after taxpayers are giving this school system 1.8 billion DOL a year, which as we mentioned before is a 38% increase in just the last eight years.

[John J. Wiley]

And I'm not alone. Those numbers actually think went up because if you get an 88% failure rate, that's I don't care where you come from. When I went to school, 70% was passing. It's like 50% now in certain areas. So 88% of people failing is really not good.

[Chris Pabst]

Well, you got to look at it from the perspective of the last segment. We talked about graduation rates. So the graduation rate is 71% but yet 12% of the kids in the school system are proficient in math. So how do you have 71% of your kids graduating? About 12% of your kids are proficient in math. And that's really what Failure Factory is after. Failure Factory is explaining to readers how and why that is happening.

[John J. Wiley]

The other thing is, we're not even talking about the reading comprehension. That's off the charts bad too, isn't it?

[Chris Pabst]

Reading comprehension is around 25%. So 75% of the kids in the school system are not reading at grade level. And it goes back to the graduation rate. How do you have 71% of your kids graduating, but 25 of them are. 25% of them are proficient in math. Like, these are the questions that really Failure factoring what I do at Fox 45 that we're trying to answer, and I think that we have answered in books.

[John J. Wiley]

I think you've made a lot of accusations, you made a lot of questions, and they are glaring questions, and it's glaring problems. But the problem is you don't get a lot of solutions in cities like Baltimore, and I'm sure there's many across the United States. But in cities like Baltimore, just from my experience, millions if not billions of dollars were poured into like Winchester Sandtown and Northwest Baltimore Police, and nothing changed. Some people, some very crooked people got wealthy, but the average person, they didn't see any increase in their quality of life at all.

[Chris Pabst]

No. Now, as far as solutions are concerned, you can look at the school system, and I have an entire chapter in Failure Factory devoted to solutions. And there certainly are things that can be done. This is 2026. We know how to educate kids. We've been doing this for quite some time. But the issue seems to be that we've taken what works in public education and we've transformed into doing what sounds good. So instead of what works, we do what sounds good. And I'll give you an example. So one of the things. One of the biggest problems in public schools that is leading to lower academic outcomes is that students are no longer being held accountable for their actions. There's no discipline and arrests in Baltimore City. The number of students being arrested, which I document heavily in Failure factory, is down 90. About 15 years ago, the school system used to arrest around 900 kids a year. Do you hear arrests for crimes that are happening inside of schools? Well, the school system decided that most of the kids they were arresting were young, minority males. So there must be some sort of discrimination against them. So the school system decided that they're not going to arrest kids anymore. And the district went from 900 arrests a year to. To 1818. And what that did was that kept the disruptive students in the classrooms because they were no longer being suspended, no longer being expelled, and no longer being arrested. And when you keep problematic kids in the classroom, it lowers the ability for every other kid to learn because those kids are creating problems. That is a massive issue. And it goes back to what I just said. What works is holding kids accountable for their actions. But what sounds is saying, hey, our arrest rate has dropped 98%. We're not going to arrest kids anymore. And that's exactly what's happening in many of our city schools like Baltimore.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, on very rare occasions in northwest Baltimore in particular, where my graduated academy, I went there. And springtime, when the weather's nice, Saturdays and Sunday mornings, we'd meet kids, and they were great kids and they loved having conversations with you. And I happened to be the last face that some of those kids saw when they were shot to death, when they're dying, taking their last breaths because they're shot by their drug dealer, not some competition by their drug dealer, because I believe they didn't have a whole lot of other options.

[Chris Pabst]

Well, when you're Talking about graduating, 71% of your kids and 10% of them are proficient in math, and 25% of them or so are proficient in English. They're graduating kids who are not prepared. They don't have the math and reading skills that they need to be able to sustain themselves and sustain their families. And this is not a controversial statement. We know that a majority of the people that are in jail are under educated. We know that they don't read as well as they should, they don't do math as well as they should. We know that that's not a controversial statement. And the reason that Baltimore is such a struggling city, as we mentioned earlier, is because of the failure to properly educate the students in the school system. However, what isn't the failure in many people's views is the money that's going to the school system. Because the adults in the school system are doing very well. They're making very good salaries, they're getting very good pay raises, and the school system keeps growing in the number of adults that it's hiring. But that is not translating into better student outcomes. Which leads to really the point of the book, which is the how and the why is this happening? Why are 71% of kids graduating, 12% are proficient in math? And it goes back to one premise, which is the point of Failure Factory and why I wrote it, to really educate people on this, is that the public education system is no longer prioritizing. Educating kids is prioritizing the acquisition of funding and then using that funding to hire more adults. To grow the power and political influence of public education.

[John J. Wiley]

And you made a great point, Chris. And we'll cover this when we return because we got a break coming up very soon. But a lot of this is based off dollars and cents, and it is not about success for the children. Quickly, how would you respond to that?

[Chris Pabst]

I think the numbers bear that out. And what I do in Failure Factory is I lay out numbers over eight entire school years from the 2016 to 2024. Those eight school years, I lay out the numbers and I show people how the budget is structured and where the money is going. And the money, the additional monies that we Talked about, the 38% increase in funding, the $500 million a year that they're getting more than they did eight years ago, that money's not getting to the classrooms. It's getting tied up in the administration, in the adults. It's not getting to the kids. Take that quick break.

[John J. Wiley]

On that note, we're talking Chris Pabst. He's an investigative journalist for Fox 45 News in Baltimore, author of the book Failure Factory. And his website is Chris Pabst.com that's P A P S T. This is the law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We will be right back. Of all the radio stations in the United States, there are no other shows like the law enforcement talk radio show. And on Facebook, there's only one official page. Do a search on Facebook for the law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to like the law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page. Return a conversation with Chris Pabst on the law enforcement talk radio show. Chris is an investigative journalist for Fox 45 News in Baltimore. He wrote the book Failure Factory about Baltimore city public schools. And his website is Chris Pabst.com that's C H R I S P a p s t.com check it out and get more details about him there. One of the things I noticed, and by the way, this is not just a Baltimore thing, this is a Philadelphia thing. This is other cities. I think it's more apparent. And by the way, there's a huge difference in Baltimore and D.C. you kind of hit on that. They're like very close to each other, 45 minutes away, but they are totally night and day different. One of the things that I had when I had encounters with children during my days in the Baldwin Police Department is many of them didn't know more than five blocks of where they lived. That's it. They knew their school, they knew where they went out, and they had class trips to the Inner Harbor. They didn't know anything else about the world. They didn't know anything else about the state. They'd never been anywhere.

[Chris Pabst]

Yeah, that's the case. That's what we see as well. And a lot of that just has to do with the financial conditions in Baltimore. It has to do with 20 to 25% of the people that live in the city are living in poverty. They simply don't have the means to be able to go on vacations and take their children places that they want to go. But that also corresponds to the educational aspect, because a lot of these kids that are going to these schools, especially ones in the inner city, they can't get out because their parents don't have the means to send them somewhere else. They don't have the means to send them to private school or parochial school or Catholic school, or they don't have the means to move out of the city. And in Failure Factory, I talk to a lot of the parents that are in the school systems, and I talk to their own kids who want to get out. They want to have something better for themselves, but they can't, because many of the parents were undereducated by the same school system that their children now attend. And they simply don't have the educational or monetary means to get out and to see things and to do things and experience things and get their kids into better schools. And that is what really has created this perpetual cycle of generational poverty that we have now seen. By the way, we've been doing this experiment for a long time. It's not working in many places.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, the very first thing a lot of people do when they get some measure of success financially, they move out of Baltimore City, they go to the county, and the tax rate in Baltimore City plummets, the taxable base plummets, but the cost of living. And nothing improves. Nothing improves. From trash reception to policing to fire departments to schools, nothing gets better. Better.

[Chris Pabst]

It's not getting better. And that's why I wrote Failure Factory. Because unless the school system gets better, my argument is nothing else is going to get better. Because the quality of education that you have in your local public schools is influence everything else. It's influencing your home values, because people want to buy homes in good school districts. It influenced the economics, it influences the jobs, it influences the tax rates. These are the things that are so important in all of our lives. And it goes back to public education. And there is certainly a movement right now in America of homeschooling we're seeing public education enrollments drop throughout the entire country. And I really wrote this book because you got to look at it from the sheer numbers. 90% of the students, 90% of the kids in America are going to public schools. And what that means is 90% of future taxpayers and 90% of of future voters are in public schools. We cannot allow our public schools throughout America to go down the route that Baltimore has gone down. And what I'm really trying to do here is educate people on how to improve the school systems, how to hold your school system accountable, how to know where to look for data that actually is going to tell you how your school system is doing. And not just data that has been manufactured or manipulated by the school systems to make the schools look safer or better than they actually are.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, just, I don't know, things have changed since I was there, but elementary schools were okay, high schools were okay. Middle schools were just horrible. In Baltimore,

[Chris Pabst]

the way that I would. I think that you're making that relative. So relative to other schools in Baltimore, that may be true, but relative to other schools, there's about 165 schools in Baltimore. And one of them, one school this year received five stars from the Maryland State Department of Education. One what that means it won. So Maryland has a five star, a one to five star rating for schools as far as how good they are. In Baltimore City, there's 165 schools and one received five stars. Most of them received two or three. All of them are largely underperforming. There's about four schools in the entire city that you would actually classify as Fairly high achieving, 4 out of 165.

[John J. Wiley]

And before we get into the response, because you work in the news media and you are very acutely aware of how people respond to you, and you got to pay attention to that. Before we get into that, what are your solutions for cities like Baltimore that are having problems with schools?

[Chris Pabst]

Sure. So there's, there's really two solutions here. There's a policy solution and there's a political solution. So the political solution is, the issue that we're having in Baltimore City is that none of the elected officials are holding the school system accountable. When you have 71% of your kids graduating and 12% are proficient in math, you think that that would be a pitchfork moment. That would be when politicians are going to school board meetings and saying, okay, superintendent, you're fired. School board, you're fired, Principals, you're fired. But that doesn't happen. In Baltimore. And the solution is that voters have to vote for politicians and elected officials that are going to hold the school boards accountable and hold the school districts accountable for how they're educating the kids. If they're going to continue to put massive amounts of money into education, you have to hold the school systems accountable to provide a better education. And that's what's missing in Baltimore. So that's the political side. On the policy side, we, as I said, we know what works in public education. What we need to do is that children need to be held accountable. They have to have discipline for their actions. Disruptive students have to be removed from the classroom. And that's the thing that we're not seeing anymore. Disruptive kids are being kept in the classroom and teachers are having to bear the brunt of that. So when we're seeing a teacher shortage throughout America, it's largely because the teachers don't want to teach in the current environments because they've been stripped of their authority to discipline children. And if a kid is acting out, they send them to the principal's office and the next period the kid is right back in the classroom acting out. That is a very. That wouldn't cost any money, by the way. It wouldn't cost any money to do that. It wouldn't cost the taxpayers any money. And that would have a significant impact. But the reason that schools don't do it is because enrollment is based on funding. The funding a school receives is based on how many kids are enrolled there. And if students are arrested or suspended or expelled, the school loses is money. And that's what they don't want.

[John J. Wiley]

And that's what it boils down to. And by the way, I'm a little more cynical than you. I have very little faith and confidence in Maryland politicians in particular, and especially Baltimore politicians, really Never in since 1980, with the exception of a few shown that they actually care.

[Chris Pabst]

That's my point. That's exactly what I'm saying. They don't. And the people that are in Baltimore City, they need to recognize, recognize that. And they need to vote for politicians who do care. Politicians who are going to say, if I'm going to take your hard earned money, and I don't know if you're following Maryland politics, but Maryland just raised taxes, $1.6 billion, mostly to pay for public education. Maryland's going all in on public education. But what happens is the schools are getting the money, but the parents and the students are not getting the academic outcomes. And that's the part that has to change and it comes from those politic demanding more. And it doesn't happen in Baltimore city which is why year after year after year you have an expensive underperforming school system that is not improving.

[John J. Wiley]

We're talking with Chris Papps. We're gonna take a short break. He's investigative journalist for Fox 45 News in Baltimore. He wrote the book Failure Factory about Baltimore city public schools. And his website is Chris Papps.com that's spelled P A P S T.com this is law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We will be right back. How would you like to improve your health? Let's get healthy tips you can use today for free. They don't require any money at all. You can download a free ebook 15 tips to improve your health at let healthy.com that's LetHealthy.com again it's LetHealthy.com and let's get healthy healthy for free with VRBoCare.

[Chris Pabst]

Help is always ready before, during and after your stay.

[John J. Wiley]

We've planned for the plot twists so

[Chris Pabst]

support is always available because a great

[John J. Wiley]

trip starts with peace of mind.

[Commercial Narrator]

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[John J. Wiley]

Joining us from Baltimore, we have Chris Pabstine on the law enforcement talk radio show. Chris is an Investigative journalist for Fox 45 News in Baltimore and he wrote the book Tell youl Factory about Baltimore city public schools. And this is not just a Baltimore thing. It's maybe exacerbated by Baltimore, but it's going on across the country. The question is, is it happening in your schools? And it's not things like taking kids to protest. It's a about not doing the basics. His website is Chris Papst.com, that's spelled P A P S T.com Chris Papst.com we'll talk about that in a few moments. Chris, I got to ask you this and I already know the answer to the question because I know how people respond, especially on social media. When you bring bad news, you're going to get kickback from people. You're going to get blowback from people. And what has some of your experience been when you say the negative, the bad news that everyone knows about with Baltimore, but shame on you for saying something about it.

[Chris Pabst]

Yeah, well, we started doing project Baltimore and Fox 45 News in January of 2017. And when we initially launched, you know, this guy comes into a city and I know that people can't see me, but they can hear me. And I'm a white guy. So I come into this city that is a school system that's 93% minority, and I start reporting on the things that are going wrong in the school system. Schools that don't have any kids proficient, entire high schools with no kids proficient in math, how the graduation rates and the money is going into the system, how the school is manipulating violence data, suspension data, how the graduating kids who can't read, which is a thing that's happening in Baltimore. And when I started reporting on all of this, I did get a lot of blowback in the beginning, and a lot of it was racial and people saying, like, why is this white guy coming into a black city and reporting on these things? This is our city, not his. And that stuff lasted for a couple years. And there were a couple instances where people went a little bit too far. And in Failure Factory in my book, I put the emails and the voicemails in there for people to read about what people were saying about me for pointing out the failures of the school system. Now, I was just the messenger. I was just telling people what is true, by the way, facts within the school system, but they didn't want to hear it. So three people did go a little bit too far down what we felt was a little bit alarming of a threat. And I did have to call the police a couple times who had to go find the people that were making these threats and talk to them. But I will say that that lasted about three or four years. And by doing this every single day, I feel like I have earned the respect and the trust of. Of the community. And those things have gone away. I haven't had to call the cops on somebody for threatening me in probably about four or five years. And I think it is a testament to just doing this every day and earning the trust and the respect of our community. So much, in fact, that in 2023, I received the Vanguard Award from the Maryland State Conference naacp, which to me was a huge honor.

[Commercial Narrator]

And.

[Chris Pabst]

And when I came to this city, I received a lot of pushback for being white. And by 2023, I received a state level honor from the NAACP. And by the way, it's for the work in Failure Factory. It's directly for the work that I'm doing because I'm exposing how kids in Baltimore City Schools, 93% of which are minorities, are simply not getting the education they need and that they deserve. I then received another NAACP award from Baltimore county, again for the work and Failure Factory. And it's worth pointing out the national chapter of the naacp, I know I worked there. That's where it's positioned. So, you know, I think that the moral of this story is that when we first started, we received a lot of pushback, and a lot of it was very ugly. People calling me mean things and threatening me, saying, I'm going to get myself killed, which was a number of voicemails, and I'm going to die in Baltimore. But we stuck to it, and we. And we believe that we were doing the right thing. And in doing so, I think that it really sent a message that we are here to help. And I know what we're reporting is ugly, and I know it's sad, but it's also true. And if we're going to turn the problem around, we have to admit that there is a problem. And that's what Baltimore officially not the people on the ground. If you were a police officer, you know, you were working with the people on the ground. They know that there's a problem. It's the people within the positions of power that want to maintain the status quo because it keeps them in power. Those are the people that you have to convince, and those are the people that need to be replaced.

[John J. Wiley]

There's so much. And I've encountered this as well, and I'm really glad to hear that you continued on with your mission. And by the way, this is my own personal experience being a police officer in Baltimore, I didn't have a choice of where I got assigned. When I graduated academy, I worked in high crime areas, minority areas, and people accepted me for who I was. They knew the kind of job I was going to do. They never really looked at me as the color of my skin. It was when I got into the Bolton Hill areas or the upper ends of Northwest district of Baltimore, where the more outdoors, affluent white people were, they say, oh, you must be racist.

[Chris Pabst]

Oh, I have. You know what? I have noticed the same thing. When I go. When I go into the lowest poverty, the highest poverty areas of Baltimore City, a lot of people come up to me and thank me for the work that I'm doing. A lot of people, it's the people that are being most affected negatively by the underperforming school system. But when I, I go into North Avenue, like Central office of Baltimore City, these people scorn at me because those are the people that are making six figure salaries and they fear that they could lose those six figure salaries. So those people don't much appreciate what I'm doing. But the people that are being affected by their policy decisions, the people that are having their children failed by the school system, much like you when you were a police officer, those are the people that thank you because they know that you're looking out for them when the people in the positions of power aren't.

[John J. Wiley]

No. And by the way, I don't know the exact terminology, but do you know off the top of your head what and I believe they call the CEO of Baltimore City Schools is making per year total compensation?

[Chris Pabst]

She's about 500,000.

[John J. Wiley]

$500,000 a year. It's a half a million dollars a

[Chris Pabst]

year to run a school system where 12% of the kids are proficient in math.

[John J. Wiley]

Yes, that should be. You called it earlier a pitchfork moment where people say that's not acceptable. These are our kids. These are our future. What's this song? You know, Our children are our future.

[Chris Pabst]

Yeah. And, but the other thing is that she's been there for nine years. So when we talked about earlier in your program that the graduation rate went from 70 to 71% with a 38% increase in funding. That's the same CEO. She's been there for nine years making about half a million dollars a year with that type of performance. And that's why I say that the focus of public education is no longer on educating kids. The focus is on acquiring funding. Because the school systems are very good at acquiring funding. They get millions and millions of more dollars dollars every single year. 500 million more dollars over eight years in Baltimore City. But the educational outcomes don't improve. And if you really want to look at any organization and see what it's focused on, you have to see what it's improving in. And in Baltimore and many school systems around America, it's improving in the amount of money that they're getting. It's not improving in the educational outcomes for students. Students.

[John J. Wiley]

So I want to focus on your book, Failure Factory. What, what possessed you to write this book?

[Chris Pabst]

Well, we've been doing this every single day since January of 2017. I've been working for Fox 45, doing this on a team called Project Baltimore. And being in this city and seeing the potential of this city not being realized and also seeing where this city is going in terms of the crime, the blight and the poverty. I really wrote this book to educate the rest of America on how to look at school systems in a different way. And the book is largely trying to show people how they can determine what is happening in their own public school systems and also how to correct it. Because I see Baltimore and I explained this in Failure Factory as really being in the late stages of what a failing public education system does to a society and does to a community. And by writing this book, my hope is that people will read it, people will learn from it, and people have a better understanding of what is really happening in many of our public schools. So we can stop it. We can correct it. I do believe it's correctable. I have hope, I have optimism. But the things that need to correct it need to be done. And in order for that to happen, people need to know what is going on. And that's why I wrote the book. And if people pick up a copy, please reach out to me. I'm really easy to get ahold of and I'm hoping to continue the conversation and really make an impact to improve public schools throughout the country.

[John J. Wiley]

Chris, thanks so much for all you've done and thanks for being a guest on Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. By the way, his website is Chris papps.com, p A P S T.com again, thank you so much.

[Chris Pabst]

Thank you.

[John J. Wiley]

I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is the nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on Numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with an another episode of Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and podcast. Until then, this is John J. Wiley. See ya.

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Chris Pabst]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Commercial Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[Chris Pabst]

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Commercial Narrator]

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[John J. Wiley]

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[Chris Pabst]

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[John J. Wiley]

If you like the show, please take

[Chris Pabst]

a moment to rate, review and subscribe.

[John J. Wiley]

It really does help the show to grow.

[Chris Pabst]

Thank you for listening.