The Murder of a Corrections Officer Working in Prison

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories

Episode Title: The Murder of a Corrections Officer Working in Prison
Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: Robert Sorensen, Retired Federal Bureau of Prisons Corrections Officer
Original Air Date: March 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode offers a sobering look into the realities of life behind bars from the eyes of retired federal corrections officer Robert Sorensen. The central focus is the 2013 murder of Officer Eric J. Williams at USP Canaan—a defining trauma for Sorensen, his colleagues, and the institution at large. Through this deeply personal narrative, the conversation unpacks the dangers, emotional toll, and resilience intrinsic to corrections work. The episode also explores changes in prison policy spurred by the tragedy, broader reflections on law enforcement trauma, and Sorensen’s continued advocacy for officer safety.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life Inside the Walls: The Real Prison Experience

• First Impressions and Fears (05:26)
  • Sorensen describes his first day at USP Allenwood as “gladiator school,” noting the initial fear and culture shock.
    • “It’s definitely a different world. And it’s not for everybody, that’s for sure.” — Robert Sorensen [05:55]
• Communications and Survival (06:42)
  • Success in corrections depends heavily on strong communication skills and vigilance. Officers who can’t communicate well “have a really, really, really tough time.”
• Different Types of Inmates (08:06, 09:22)
  • Distinction between inmates (“needy”) and convicts (“quiet, keep to themselves”), with the latter posing often-undetected risks.
  • “You know, inmates are predators. You got to look at them as predator and prey. Right? ... And that’s really two categories that you’re in. You’re either a predator or you’re prey.” — Robert Sorensen [09:22]

2. Trauma of Service and Its Impact on Home Life

• Bringing Home The Job (15:44)
  • Both Sorensen and Wiley discuss coping mechanisms: Sorensen would never wear his work boots in the house, symbolically leaving trauma outside. Both found it hard to “flip the switch” between professional and family life.
    • “You’re always looking for danger inside of a correctional... So it’s really hard to flip that switch and not be on high alert.” — Robert Sorensen [16:45]
• Respect and Hypervigilance
  • The theme of respect permeates both inmate interactions and family life, sometimes causing officers to react harshly at home.

3. Hollywood vs. Reality: Respect for Corrections Officers

• Misconceptions in Media (19:27)
  • Hollywood’s portrayals of corrections officers as corrupt, incompetent, or brutal are contradicted by real-world experience.
    • “For the most part it’s nothing like you see on TV. Everybody there is a brotherhood and a sisterhood... you have to take care of each other.” — Robert Sorensen [19:31]
• Comparisons Within Law Enforcement (17:43)
  • There are differences in function but not in value or risk when comparing corrections to other law enforcement.

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The 2013 Murder of Officer Eric J. Williams

The Attack Detailed [23:02]

• Circumstances and Context
  • Williams had over a year on the job; Sorensen was the Emergency Preparedness Officer at USP Canaan.
  • At the time, officers were armed only with keys and a radio. Each housing unit held over 100 inmates with just one officer on watch.
• The Murder
  • Inmate (Arizona Mexican Mafia member) ambushed Williams at the top of the stairs, kicking him down, then chasing and stabbing him over 200 times.
  • “He stomped on him. This goes on for about 10 or 15 minutes. And he’s in that unit by himself. Not one inmate in that unit hit their duress button…” — Robert Sorensen [26:52]
  • No inmates raised an alarm; another inmate casually handed the killer a soda before the attack continued.
• Aftermath and Response
  • Officer from a neighboring unit found Williams; staff secured the area without excessive force, ensuring future prosecution held.

Emotional and Institutional Fallout [34:42]

• Impact on Staff
  • “That affected me for about two weeks after that. I almost was like... like zombie stage.” — Robert Sorensen [39:09]
  • Sorensen insisted on personally cleaning up the aftermath.
  • He stored away his boots from that night until after the murder trial—a subconscious ritual of processing the trauma.
• Culture of Resilience
  • Staff rallied with the mantra, “We got this,” now engraved at USP Canaan.
  • Officers processed the scenes together, supporting each other through grief.

Compound Trauma: Subsequent Suicide [39:44]

• Greg, the Control Center Officer
  • Grappled with survivor’s guilt, believing he could have done more to save Eric Williams.
  • Greg later died by suicide, reopening unhealed wounds for the facility staff.
    • “That just kind of tore the band-aid off the scab that was starting to form from Eric’s murder.” — Robert Sorensen [39:44]

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Changes in Policy & Advocacy

Safety and Training Post-Incident

• The tragedy influenced major safety improvements, including staff support, weapon access, and prevention training.
• Sorensen became a lead less-lethal instructor with the National Tactical Officers Association, driven by a mission for “staff safety” and preventing future tragedies.
  • “You’re not going to change everybody, but if you can save and help one person do a job safer, more efficient and better… that’s kind of how I looked at things.” — Robert Sorensen [39:44]
• The murder and related traumas reshaped Sorensen’s approach to leadership and training.

Mental Health and Life Expectancy [41:07]

• Host Wiley discusses low average life expectancy in law enforcement, with PTSD and suicide as persistent concerns.
• Both stress the need for avenues to process trauma and find meaning after loss.
  • “It eats you up … if you don’t have an outlet or a hope to make things better, I think it can be very dark…” — Robert Sorensen [40:31]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trauma’s Lasting Mark:
  “The more and more they whittle you down, or the more bad things that happen to you, the sharper you get. And so I kind of took that to heart.” — Robert Sorensen [04:20]

• On Being Watched:
  “They’re eyeballing, they’re sizing people up all the time. ... You’re either a predator or you’re prey.” — Robert Sorensen [09:22]

• On Staff Response:
  “If you go to USB Canaan today, there’s a big roster outside, and on that rock is engraved, ‘We got this.’” — Robert Sorensen [39:18]

• On Hollywood Myths:
  “For the most part it’s nothing like you see on TV… in my 27 years, I have never seen anything like that.” — Robert Sorensen [19:31]

• On Finding Purpose in Pain:
  “Trying to put a purpose to my pain… I think you have to… otherwise it eats you up…” — John J. Wiley & Robert Sorensen [40:06–40:15]

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Officer Safety and New Technology

• Current Role & Fentanyl Decontamination (41:47)
  • Sorensen is now a consultant for SoRite, advocating for use of Decon, a chemical agent that neutralizes fentanyl on contact.
  • This technology aims to protect officers from accidental fentanyl exposure, a growing risk in corrections and law enforcement.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Guest Introduction & Career Background: [02:17–05:26]
• Corrections Life – Mindset & Skills: [05:26–09:22]
• Trauma at Home & Coping: [15:44–17:43]
• Media Myths vs. Reality: [19:27–20:13]
• Lead-up and Details of Eric Williams’ Murder: [23:02–29:16]
• Emotional Fallout & Staff Resilience: [34:42–40:15]
• Officer Suicide & Continued Impact: [39:44–41:07]
• Officer Safety Advocacy and New Tech (SoRite): [41:47–43:56]

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Conclusion

This gripping episode stands out for its unflinching depiction of violence, camaraderie, and perseverance within the corrections community. Sorensen’s firsthand account conveys the weight of trauma and the ongoing struggle to build meaning from loss. Through honest discussion of the officer’s murder, the psychological cost, and the evolution of safety measures, listeners gain authentic insight into a world rarely seen by outsiders—where, despite unimaginable challenges, “we got this” remains the rallying cry.

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Transcript

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[John J. Wiley]

He is a retired Federal Bureau of prisons officer. In 2013, a corrections officer he was close with was attacked and killed in the line of duty. He's here to talk about the impact on him, the changes in policies and much more. Welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. In the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show, we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, their realities of investigating crimes, plus those have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crime share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website, letradio.com and also like us on Facebook, search for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Of all the radio stations in the United States, there are no other shows like the law Enforcement Talk radio show. And on Facebook there's only one official page. Do a search on Facebook for the Law Enforcement Talk radio show and be sure to like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show Facebook page. Conte is from Pennsylvania. We have Robert Sorensen on the Law Enforcement Talk radio show. Robert is retired Federal Bureau of Prisons Corrections officer and he's here to talk about something tragic. The death, the the assault line of duty attack on a friend, another corrections officer in 2013 had a huge impact on him and prison policies. He is a consultant for company so right. Their website is so right.com that's so right.com s o r I t e.com be sure to check them out. Robert, thanks for your service. A and thanks for being a guest on a law enforcement talk radio show. Very much appreciated.

[Robert Sorensen]

Absolutely. It's a pleasure is mine. Thank you.

[John J. Wiley]

It's good to have you here, Robert. I know we're going to talk. We're not strangers to heavy duty conversations. We really are not. We've been doing this since 2017 and there is a spot for this. But the one thing that people need to understand and I'm sure you're going to make people aware of, is that that for everybody else, life goes on. And we've got to find A way to never forget the loss of our fellow officers. But how to take their legacy and add a positive thing to it, Build the best life possible? That's what I try to do.

[Robert Sorensen]

Yes, absolutely. And that's kind of. Kind of how it shaped me as well.

[John J. Wiley]

And we're talking about your career. So you're now retired from Bureau of Prisons. How long were you in and how long did you retire?

[Robert Sorensen]

So I retired in January of 2024. I served 27 years for the Federal Bureau of Prisons, and I retired out of Washington, D.C. as a special agent.

[John J. Wiley]

And what year did you start?

[Robert Sorensen]

I started in 1997.

[John J. Wiley]

Long time ago, by the way. I retired from the. I retired from the Baltimore Police Department in 1992. That's how long I've been out of the game.

[Robert Sorensen]

Oh, geez.

[John J. Wiley]

I tell people this all the time, and I'm rephrasing this as a question, but I got hurt and retired young as an act of physical violence, multiple surgeries and all that stuff. I was 33 when I retired and got into radio about eight years later. But sometimes. Here's the question, Bart. Sometimes it feels like a lifetime ago, another guy ago, and other times it's right there.

[Robert Sorensen]

Yeah, that's. That's so true. And sometimes it's. It's shocking and it kind of wakes you up a little bit and just kind of reminds you of your. Your past history. And sometimes it's not always good.

[John J. Wiley]

No. And there's. There's good with the bad. Problem is, I tend to remember the bad, the horrific stuff. I don't remember the good stuff. How about you?

[Robert Sorensen]

Well, for me, honestly, like, obviously, the bad really kind of shape you. And it's like when you do anything good, nobody ever remembers the good stuff you do. They always remember the bad. And so I think that's really similar to kind of what we're talking about. And the bad things, hopefully you learn from them and you don't do them again. So the bad definitely make a more indelible mark on you, on who you are, and it shapes what happens. So, you know, I had a guy tell me one time, the more and more they whittle you down, or the more bad things that happen to you, the sharper you get. And so I kind of took that to heart.

[John J. Wiley]

It's almost like a pencil, and you've got to be worn down to get that point, get sharp. Here's the thing that. And by the way, when I was detailed, the dea, we put some people. I think it's in Williamsport Federal Penitentiary from federal charges. And I remember going to Jessup, which is a state correctional facility in Maryland, and for work, whatever reason why, and it was so loud that I could not handle it. How was your first day?

[Robert Sorensen]

Honestly, I was thinking, what in the heck did I get myself into? I was an MP in the army and one of my good buddies said, hey, why don't you put in for the federal prison system? You know, it's good retirement and everything. And no, no way did I ever think I was going to work inside of a federal jail. I just remember and I hired out at USP Allenwood, which is right in Williamsport Penns. Right near Williamsport, probably the same prison you're talking about, probably. And maximum security federal penitentiary right there. And it's a complex in Allenwood. And I remember my first day and they were showing us where we were going. There was a medium and a low, and then there's a penitentiary and a camp there. And I was assigned to the penitentiary. And I'm thinking, oh great, it's going to be gladiator school. I'm scared to death. And I remember walking inside of there and, you know, seeing the inmates walking around and I'm just thinking, my goodness, what did I get myself into? And so it's definitely a different world. And it's not for everybody, that's for sure.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, one of the things, and certainly not for me, and I believe that you've got to have some natural abilities, especially in corrections, but a lot of it, policing in general, is learned skill set. And I remember, because you brought up a good point. I remember getting hired by the Baltimore Police Department and my first thought was, yeah, I got the job. My second thought immediately after that was like, am I tough enough for this? Am I smart enough in this? Am I going to make it?

[Robert Sorensen]

Yeah. And that's all those things go through your head. But. But you know, you get over it. You have to get over. And I think one of the best things that correctional officers do, the better communicator you are, the more effective you are. And I think correctional officers are probably some of the best communicators. Obviously there's some really not so good ones, but that's in every profession that we have out there. But I think if you're not a good communicator, you're going to have a really, really, really tough time working inside of any type of correctional facility at all.

[John J. Wiley]

Now the thing with the federal, and this is why I love working with DEA, when they got 25 years, they did almost exactly 25 years. And then some people, when they get life, they're. I mean, there is no getting out.

[Robert Sorensen]

Yeah, that's true. I mean, so for. Are you talking about the staff, like the retirement?

[John J. Wiley]

No, I'm talking about the inmates first. And we'll go into your story. The inmates, I guess let me re. Sharpen this question. One of the things I say all the time is prisons are filled with people that if it wasn't for alcohol or drugs, a big percentage of them wouldn't be there. If it wasn't for 15 minutes of bad decision making, they wouldn't be there. And then there's a very small percentage, very small, of lifelong career criminals that will ruin your life. Is that the situation with you guys?

[Robert Sorensen]

Yeah, I've seen that. Especially at the federal penitentiary, everybody seems to think, you know, the feds are, you know, white collar crime. And that's really not the case. I've seen the worst of the worst. Probably some of the most infamous criminals that you can think of. And you know, we can, we can talk about some of the individuals I've come across in my career, but you really see the worst of the worst at the, at the maximum security penitentiaries. And there, there's a difference between an inmate and a convict. And inmates are those ones that kind of just bother you and are very needy convicts. They don't bother you and they kind of keep to themselves. But those are the guys you got to watch out for, the quiet, silent type ones, but don't compl. And you got to keep your head on the swivel. You cannot become complacent. And in this business, and that's kind of, kind of where a lot of people go down and make mistakes as they become complacent and think that they can become friends with the inmates. And that's a big issue.

[John J. Wiley]

The other thing that really got to me, and maybe it's true, maybe it's not, I'm going to ask you. These inmates have nothing but time. They're watching you. They watch every move you make as a corrections officer. And they, they adapt. And they're always not all of them, but there's a certain percentage that have an angle. Was that the case for you guys?

[Robert Sorensen]

100%. You know, inmates are predators. You know, you got to look at them as a predator and prey. Right? That's how they are on the street. It doesn't change when you get inside of the prison system. It actually becomes the university or where they kind of sharpen their skills. If you will, because they're also predator and prey in there. And so they're eyeballing, they're sizing people up all the time. And that's really two categories that you're in. You're either a predator or you're prey.

[John J. Wiley]

You can't be. You gotta be one or the other. We're talking with Robert Sorensen. He's retired Federal Bureau of Prisons Corrections officer and he is now consultant with so Rite. Their website is soright.com that's S O R I T E.com this law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We will be right back. How would you like to improve your health? Let's get healthy Tips you can use today for free. They don't require any money at all. You can download a free ebook, 15 tips to improve your health at let healthy.com that's LetHealthy.com again it's LetHealthy.com and let's get healthy for free.

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Until the season changes and suddenly you lose your motivation to get out of bed. In fact, one in five people experience some form of depression no matter the season or time of year.

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[John J. Wiley]

Return to conversation with Robert Sorensen on the law enforcement talk radio show. Robert is retired Federal Bureau of Prisons Corrections officer and he is a consultant for so right. I love saying that. Soright.com is a company website. It's s o r I t e.com before we get into the story about the death of your friend and co worker and how that impacted you and the policies that changed. You mentioned earlier in the conversation that there are some amazing convicts and differences, but you ran into some hardcore serious criminals, didn't you?

[Robert Sorensen]

Absolutely I did. Yeah. There's some, there's some serious gang dudes and there's some very notorious individuals that I've kind of. I don't want to say I had the pleasure to come across, but I've through my career crossed paths. So definitely some of the ones.

[John J. Wiley]

Are you able to mention something by name?

[Robert Sorensen]

Yeah, sure. So at, you know, I think. I think he just actually passed away. But Alder James was probably one of the most famous individuals that I came across when I first started. Alder James was a CIA spy back in the 80s that sold secrets to the Russians. So came across him. He really kept to himself A lot of mafia individuals at USP Analyt. That's kind of what that individual or that facility was known for picked up. Actually, I have, I don't want to say had the pleasure, but I ran across Delaine Maxwell when I was a special agent. We were doing some assessments in New York City and she was in one of the detention centers there and had to actually talk to her and that was that. That one made the hair on the back of my neck stand up a little bit. There's something off about that individual. And so anyway, there's been some other high profile people that I've had to come across as well. I did a tour of the ADX out in Colorado and saw Tim McVeigh just got moved to the death row and Terre Haute, Indiana. So he just got moved and. But I saw Terry Nichols, which was his co conspirator and I saw Ted Kaczynski out there. So there's some, some individuals that, that probably people know around, around the country that we've had inside these jails that are around also picked up Michael Douglas's son in New York City. He was. He liked, he liked the drugs. And so I picked him up at the MCC New York and brought him to Lewisburg.

[John J. Wiley]

And so one of these people and some of the people you mentioned, Maxwell and I remember some of these people you had to deal with. Most people were not bad. Most of them were not bad at all. And the bad guys, the ones you arrested, usually didn't give you a hard time. It was a very small percentage that did. However, there were certain people that made me feel. I just felt filthy afterwards because being around them. Was she one of them?

[Robert Sorensen]

She definitely was one of them. Like I said, me, the hair in the back of my neck stand up a little bit like it was just odd. And she's very flirtatious with me and my, my partner. We were there doing some interviews and she came up to us and wanted to talk to us and made like I said, made the hair on the back of my neck, it just felt icky. And I've run across inmates that, you know, especially working in penitentiary. I've been around the murderers, the high, high profile gang members, guys that have really done some really, really awful things. And there's only been a handful that have kind of given me the willies or made me feel take a shower afterwards. And she definitely was one of them.

[John J. Wiley]

Yeah, there was certain people and I, I didn't have this conversation with my then wife because I didn't want her to worry about stuff. And I, I thought I had this little nice little psychological trick and involved my soft body armor or some people call the bulletproof vest. And I would, the Velcro is attached to Velcro. And when I was peeling the velcro off, I would try to transition from cop J into husband J into father J and all that stuff. And it worked well, until it didn't anym. Do you have any little tricks you did?

[Robert Sorensen]

I took my boots off. I never wore my boots inside the house. I had young kids at the time and you know, you kind of run across icky stuff that you walk into. And I just tried to take that stuff off, number one, to make sure I kept the germs outside. But I wanted to leave all that, that kind of stuff outside out there. Now it's, it's difficult. I'm not going to lie. It's really, really hard to flip that switch. Respect is a big thing, especially in jail inmates. Inmates really kind of thrive on or not given. And if you don't get respect, you know, bad things happen. And correctional officers and lieutenants and everybody are the same thing. And so you really, really hone in on the disrespect or the respect. And I had this, I struggled with that in the beginning with my children. If I felt that they back talked me or disrespected me, I remember snapping, you know, sometimes and yelling at them. And my wife had to remind me, you know, hey, listen, they're not inmates. And that's one of those things that I had to try to remember and not bring home. But it's a difficult thing to do to flip that switch. And you're always looking for danger inside of a correctional. Every one of them is a convicted felon and so every one of them has the potential to do violence. And so it's really hard to flip that switch and not be on high alert. Whenever you go out to eat dinner or whenever you go out in the general public, you're always eyeballing everybody, you're always looking at everybody or sizing people up and getting those non verbal cues, if you will. So it's not an easy thing to do and you have to have coping mechanisms, otherwise it'll eat you up.

[John J. Wiley]

Last question. And by the way, I could relate to everything you talked about. Last question. Before we get into your story, and this is something personally, I believe corrections officers are law enforcement officers and there's really no distinction. But some people love to make it seem like there is a big distinction. Have you noticed that?

[Robert Sorensen]

Yeah, definitely. You know, I mean, my retirement, I retired as a federal law enforcement officer. I got the same retirement as an FBI agent, as a U.S. marshal, as a DEA agent. We all have the same federal retirement. Our pension, our health benefits, everything's the same. So there's no difference in that. The only difference is how you do your job. There's a difference between an FBI agent and a street cop, right?

[John J. Wiley]

Yeah.

[Robert Sorensen]

An FBI agent isn't out there pulling, doing traffic duties. So does that make one less than the other? I don't think so. I think just the job duties that people do are totally different and you have to understand that. So as far everybody. You got to look at a correctional facility as a mini, as a mini city. You have food service, you have electric, you know, you have plumbing, you have all these types of things, infrastructure, and you have its own society. You have different groups that you have to understand and deal with. So you have to be very, very good at dealing with your own miniature city, if you will. But every single one of those people in your city is a criminal capable of extreme violence. So you're definitely a law enforcement officer. And every single day you're on edge. You never know what, what the day is going to bring, that's for sure.

[John J. Wiley]

And we'll get into some of the tragedies that occur in just a few moments. And this is the last question I'll have for you. Maybe it's kind of a comment, but Hollywood in particular, when you talk about Hollywood, I mean television, movies, social media, they portray corrections officers and by the way, police as well as being stupid, somehow corrupt and somehow not trustworthy. You don't seem like any of those.

[Robert Sorensen]

Well, I appreciate that. Now I've, I don't, haven't really run across too many of those individuals. Now there's, there's always bad apples in every single. And that's what kind of drove me towards the end of my career to the internal affairs or the special agent side of the house. But there's always those bad apples that have that. So for the most part it's nothing like you see on tv. Everybody there is a brotherhood and a sisterhood and everybody you know, you have to take care of each other. And it's, it's not dark and dreary. You know, you don't have areas that aren't monitored like you see on tv. And those type of things don't happen normally. Now I'm not going to say there is an exceptions to the rule, but for the most part in my 27 years, I have never seen anything like

[John J. Wiley]

that and I've never encountered that either. We're talking about Robert Sorensen is retired Federal Bureau of Prisons Corrections officer and we return he's also a consultant working now for so Rite. Their website is soright.com that's s o r I t e dot com. Be sure to check it out. This is Law Enforcement Talk Radio service. Take a short break. We'll be right back. Get access to free podcast versions of the show and more on Facebook. Do a search for the Law Enforcement Talk rated show and be sure to

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[Grainger Announcer]

you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters, but when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[American Psychiatric Association Announcer]

The sun's shining, birds are singing, and all feels right in the world.

[American Psychiatric Association Announcer 2]

Until the season changes and suddenly you lose your motivation to get out of bed. In fact, one in five people experience some form of depression, no matter the season or time of year.

[American Psychiatric Association Announcer]

At the American Psychiatric association foundation, our vision is to build a mentally healthy nation for all, because we want you to live your best life and be your best you all year round.

[American Psychiatric Association Announcer 2]

Please visit mentallyhealthynation.org to learn more.

[John J. Wiley]

Turn our Conversation with with Robert Sorensen on the law enforcement talk radio show. Connecting with us from Pennsylvania. He's retired Federal Bureau of Corrections officer. He's now a consultant working for Sorite. Their website is soright.com that's s o r I t e dot com. And he did 27 years as a corrections officer for the federal government, which is lots of applause for that. I couldn't do a day. I really don't think I could do a day. But during your career, Robert, you had the extreme misfortune in 2013 of a friend, a co worker that was attacked and killed.

[Robert Sorensen]

Yes, we did. His name was Officer Eric J. Williams. And it's kind of give you a little bit of backstory. Before that, I was promoted to a lieutenant. This was at USP Canaan, which is in Northeast Pennsylvania. I was promoted to senior lieutenant in 2007. So I was a lieutenant from 2007 until 2012. And then in 2012 I was promoted to our emergency preparedness officer at USP Canaan. And so an emergency preparedness officer. And this is important, really kind of in charge of making sure that security, making sure that your crisis management teams get the training and equipment. And we perform mock exercise or mock drills. And so that was the job that I had, I got promoted to, started in February of 2012. And so a year later this is going to happen. Eric's, you know, the anniversary of Eric's death here, February 25th. But this was in 2013. I had a major mock exercise. And a major mock exercise usually consists of about four hour exercise. And we use various components of the command center and our crisis management teams, our SWAT teams, those types of things. And I would create a scenario and, and we kind of just do a drill and we're required to do those two a year. And so I had one planned for that morning, February 25, 2013. And so I got a call late at night saying, hey, we had a homicide at a bureau facility. And this was one of my good friends. He was down in Washington D.C. he was in charge of emergency preparedness for the whole Bureau. And he called me and he said, hey, we had homicide. I said, what do you mean? He goes, staff homicide. And I said, where? And he said, at Canaan. I said, whoa, wait a minute, what do you mean at Canaan? And he told me, goes Eric, Eric Williams. And Eric was an officer. He started maybe about a year, year and a half prior to him being murdered there. And so I knew who Eric was and I knew he was a good officer. He was a good person. He started out as a police officer on the street and decided he wanted to federal corrections for, you know, the benefits, the pension, and all the, all the wonderful things that kind of go along with that. And so I, I called into the facility and I talked to the lieutenant who was on duty. And he was one of, one of the, he was an officer for me for a long time until he got promoted to lieutenant. And, and I remember talking to him and he just started breaking down crying and he said, I just, I couldn't do anything. And so I jumped in my car and I immediately went to the facility. And so what happened that night prior to was it was count time and Eric was getting the unit ready to lock the inmates in their cells. And they were going to count. At this particular time in 2013, the only weapons that correctional officers had was a set of keys. They had a radio, and that's it. And there was one officer per unit. USP Canaan. Each housing unit holds 120 inmates. So on average, you'd have about 112, 113 inmates in a unit. And you had one officer to kind of control that. And they have like a sister housing unit next to it. So there's one officer over there. So you have an A side and a B side. And so Eric was working in Charlie unit, Charlie one, and he was getting ready to lock the inmates into their cells for the night. And he was walking up the stairs. There's two, two levels in this housing unit. And he's walking up the stairs, and he gets almost to the top of the stairs, and there's an inmate that was waiting for him at the top of the stairs. He was an Arizona Mexican mafia member. And he kicked Eric in the chest. And Eric did a backflip down the stairs and landed at the bottom base of the stairs. And that inmate was already running down the steps towards him. And Eric got up and ran away, tried to get away from him. And you know, you can watch, we can. I've seen the video numerous times, but you see Eric trying to get away and trying to create space and call for help. And his radio falls out and so it's kind of dangling behind him. And he gets knocked down onto the ground. And the inmate continues to stab him numerous times, stabs. He ends up stabbing him over 200. And sometimes he stomped on him. And this goes on for about 10 or 15 minutes. And he's kind of in that unit by himself. Not one inmate in that unit hit their duress button. Every cell Has a duress button that they can hit. And it notifies the control center that, you know, hey, something's going on, and we can, you know, you can send help or do those type of things. Not one of those inmates did that in that unit. So he was all alone in that unit by himself. And that inmate stabbed him. He stomped on him. You see the inmate go away from him. He goes up to a cell, takes his shirt off and kind of gets a breather. And another inmate comes out of the cell and gives him a soap and hands him a soda to drink. And he goes in and comes back down and continues stabbing Eric. And it's just horrific. As I kind of replay it in

[John J. Wiley]

my mind, I don't know that there's a pleasant way to talk about this. Here's the thing that really bothers me about it. Number one, I can't watch these videos. It's very rare watch videos because it takes me forever. I mean, eight, nine hours to get back to what I call my center. But people, there's really no way you can describe in a way that. That normal people will understand the level of violence that people have with each other. And this is what you were doing. And it's impossible to have that conversation and not feel it.

[Robert Sorensen]

I'm feeling it. I'm feeling that I didn't watch that video. And I'll talk about when I did watch the video. So I didn't. I didn't know 100% everything that happened until later that night. You know, I was there all day and doing stuff for the FBI. And, you know, I'll talk about that here in a second, how that kind of affected me.

[John J. Wiley]

But

[Robert Sorensen]

he stabbed him numerous times and actually reached in Eric's pocket and pulled out some. Some gum that Eric had, you know, went through his pockets and pulled out a piece of chewing gum and chewed on a stick of Eric's gum. That's how callous and that's how violent these individuals are. So this goes on for quite a while. And inmate goes up to his cell, and the officer next door in the sister unit was waiting for Eric to come on over. And they count together. Two officers have to count. And Eric didn't come over like normal. So you see him come on into the unit, and Eric's laying there and not moving. And you, you know, you can see the blood and stuff there. And I could see it right now, actually, and it was right by one of the. The tables. There's a picnic table in that unit. And it's, you know, we took it out after that, but he's laying right next to that picnic table. And, you know, Jeremy comes over and sees him, you know, on, on the ground and, and doesn't know what's going on, right, because he just knows that an officer, you know, his, his partner is on the ground, doesn't know who did it or anything like that. He calls for help and you see the staff arrive and so they start securing all the cells and they start looking for any kind of clues, blood trail, anything like that. And they find the inmate and, you know, they actually deal with the inmate. And now this lieutenant that I spoke to that morning was the lieutenant on duty. And he did a wonderful job. And if anybody, you know, kind of knows who that lieutenant was, is, he's usually a big bravado. He looks like the Big show from wwe and that's kind of what his nickname was, the Big Show. And he. He's. Everything's a nail and he's a hammer and. But he. But I will tell you, by the grace of God, that night, he. He did the right thing. And the reason I say he did the right thing is he got the. Got the inmate that did the homicide out of the cell. They didn't do any unnecessary force on him or beat him up or anything like that that you would think that would be appropriate to do for somebody like that. And the reason I say that.

[John J. Wiley]

Note. We're talking with Robert Sorensen, retired Federal Bureau of Prisons corrections officer. He's now consultant. The company works for so Rite. Their website is soright S O R I T E dot com. This is law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We will be right back. Be sure to check out our website, letradio.com that's letradio.com there you'll find episodes of the show available as a podcast after airing on radio. And they're always free. All that and much more [e-mail] again the website is letradio.com

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The sun's shining, birds are singing, and all feels right in the world until

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the season changes and sudden you lose your motivation to get out of bed. In fact, one in five people experience some form of depression no matter the season or time of year.

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At the American Psychiatric association foundation, our vision is to build a mentally healthy nation for all because we want you to live your best life and be your best you all year round.

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Please visit mentallyhealthynation.org to learn more.

[John J. Wiley]

To turn our conversation with Robert Soreness on the Law Enforcement Talk Rail show. He's retired Federal Bureau of Corrections, Corrections Officer, Bureau of Prisons and he is a consultant now for so Rite. Their website is soright.com that's s o r I t e dot com. We're talking about the, the incident where corrections officer was murdered in a line of duty in 2013. And one of the things that you said before we went to break was and Hollywood, again, I'm not going to give the explain the explanation, but Hollywood loves to portray this thing that all police want to get hands on with people. All police, all law enforcement, all corrections officers want to get vengeance. And we may want to, but none of us wants to be the guy that throws a case in jeopardy in court. So we don't. And that sounds like the case with you guys. They took them into custody, the inmates that killed the officer and that was it.

[Robert Sorensen]

Yeah, that's exactly what happened. And that's why I say that Lieutenant did a great job preserving the case, preserving the evidence and ensuring that a jury trial took place without any kind of incidents or anything that could be held over that case that could ruin it or jeopardize seeking the death penalty. And that's ultimately kind of how it played out. So kind of fast forwarding. Eric did pass away at the hospital. On the way the hospital, we had one of our paramedics that rode with him. The warden at the time was the best warden I ever worked for. A dear friend of mine to this day actually, he had the unpleasant job of going to Eric's mom and dad and, you know, letting them know about their son. And I can't even imagine, you know, what that felt for him. So fast forwarding that day, we kind of went about our duties and all the inmates were locked down. I didn't watch that video. I didn't know what happened. The FBI processed the crime scene. The evidence recovery team from Philadelphia came in and processed the crime scene, took all the pictures, and then they released the crime scene. And this is. This is where it kind of gets personal for me a little bit, is I was told by the captain at the time, let's get an inmate blood spill. That's, you know, we have inmates that are trained in blood spill cleanup. They're specifically trained, and they go and clean up the blood spill. And he's like, hey, let's get the blood spill guys to clean up. I said, absolutely not. I said, I'm not. I'm not having. No one may touch that. I said, I'm going to go do it myself. And so I. I went down to that unit and I took a couple lieutenants went with me, and we didn't say a word to each other. And I remember. I remember cleaning that, that. That blood splatter off the wall. I remember cleaning it off the picnic table that was in that unit. And after that happened, I took my boots off and I put them under in a box and I put them underneath my desk in my office, in my emergency preparedness office. And I don't know why I did that, but those boots sat there until that trial was over. So it was about. Must have been a year and a half, two years. Those boots were underneath my desk. And I can't explain why. I don't know why I did that, but I threw them away afterwards that. That trial. And I don't know if that was me subconsciously doing that or what, but after we cleaned up the blood spill, the regional director came in and the director of the bureau came in and we sat in the command center. And that was the first time I watched a video and just how brutal that whole thing was. And that affected me for about two weeks after that. I almost was like. Like zombie stage. And I remember looking at, you know, one morning I was with warden, and we were looking at each other and he looked at me and we shut the command center to work because it was just him and I, and. And he gave me a big hug and we started crying together. And that was like the next day after that happened, and he started crying. I started crying. He says, we're not going to cry anymore. And, you know, he went around to every officer and asked them what they needed, and every one of them said, we got this, sir. We got this. And so if you go to USB Canaan today, there's a big roster outside, and on that rock is engraved, we got this. And that's where that comes from. And there's an eagle there. And that was from the staff. So I really credit the staff. I credit the lieutenant, I credit the leadership at the time. And just to kind of help really get through that tough part. Fast forwarding two weeks, I was acting captain and we're trying to get back to normal. And the control center officer, his name was Greg. And Greg, at the night Eric was murdered, was working the control center. I thought he missed something, thought he thought he could have saved Eric's life or he messed up or that's what was going through his brain. And I got a call that morning, I was acting captain and said, hey, they found Greg. He committed suicide. He took a shotgun and killed himself with a shotgun at the local gun range. And so that afternoon I had to call all the staff in and kind of tell them what happened to Greg. And so that just kind of tore the band aid off the scab that was starting to form from Eric murder. You know, staff kind of doing their duties and stuff and then having to deal with Greg's suicide. Those events played a big, huge role on kind of where I start looking at training staff and the things that I started doing after that. As far as my job, the companies that I started getting involved with. I'm a lead less lethal instructor with the National Tactical officers association, the NTOA. I started teaching with them in 2013, shortly after Eric was killed. They brought me on as a cadre member and I teach for them today. I'm very passionate about staff safety. I'm very passionate about changing one person at a time. And that then Eric's homicide and Greg's suicide really kind of molded that and shaped me that you're not going to change everybody, but if you can save and help one person do a job safer, more efficient and better. And that's kind of how I looked at things.

[John J. Wiley]

And that's really, if you ask me and I know you're not, it's kind of trying to put a purpose to my pain. Do you find that being the case with you?

[Robert Sorensen]

Absolutely, I do. I think you have to, if you believe, bundle it up and bottle it up and don't talk about it and don't find an avenue to make. Make things better. I think it eats you up and I think it eats. I think you see that a lot in law enforcement.

[John J. Wiley]

You do.

[Robert Sorensen]

You talk about PTSD and veterans and people that have been to war. Well, police officers, corrections officers, paramedics. I think you see some awful stuff. I can't even imagine coming across an accident on a highway with it where young children. Child was. That has to have some type of effect on you. And so the things that we see in this profession, in this line of work, if you don't have an outlet or you don't have a hope to make things better, I think it can be very dark and I think it can be very. Go down a hole that it's really tough to come back from. And I think that's what happened.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, I was at the gym yesterday and I was having a conversation with a guy who's a little bit older than. Not a whole. He's 69. And I told him, I said, by the way, you know, the average life expectancy for American police officers now is 58. The American male is 73. And by the way, when I was in the police academy, the average life expectancy was 52. And we talked about some of the causes. And PTSD is part of a trauma. Stress, poor shift work, poor eating habits, all that stuff. Drinking themselves and unfortunately, suicide is an issue as well. You're now a consultant. Tell us a little bit about so. Right. And what you do.

[Robert Sorensen]

So it's kind of odd. I was at, I was at the National Tactical Officers association conference this past year in Washington D.C. and they always have a vendor show. And there's. As one of the less lethal instructors, we try to hit every single booth and see what kind of new technology out there and to save stuff. And so. Right. With one of the boosts that was there. And they have a product called decon. Decon oxidizes fentanyl in 60 seconds. And so it takes that dangerous amount of fentanyl and makes it inert and makes it safe. And so I've never, I didn't know anything like that existed. And the reason this affected me, you know, I saw this and I said, I got to get this into the Bureau of Prisons. I gotta, I gotta, I gotta bring this to my brothers and sisters in law enforcement is because last year at USP Atwater, we had a line of duty death. An officer by the name of Mark Fisher worked it in the mail room going through inmates mail and wasn't wearing gloves and came across some type of substance which was fentanyl. He and overdosed and died. And this happens a lot. Not so much that it kills the officers, but they get overdosed and they have to be administered in our case. And so I didn't know anything like this kind of existed, that there was a product that was ready to use and safe. I can spray it on myself. It's not, it's non toxic. It doesn't degrade my equipment. It's sodium chloride, which is, which is a safe, safe substance, but it oxidizes a very good oxidizer and it depletes that fentanyl, xylazine, meth. And so I said, I need to see the test. I'm not going to take your word for it. Let me see your testing. And so they had TRI Clinics laboratory and some other DEA accredited laboratories and they had, they did their due diligence and spent the money and had the testing done. And it shows that the product does what it says. It's check it out.

[John J. Wiley]

It's soright.com that's s o r I t e.com people. Get more information about that and contact you there as well.

[Robert Sorensen]

Yep, it's a B Sorensen S O R E N S E N at

[John J. Wiley]

thanks so much Robert. Appreciate it. Thanks for being guest on Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and telling your story. Very much appreciated.

[Robert Sorensen]

Thank you. I appreciate it as well.

[John J. Wiley]

Huge thank you for listening to this episode of the podcast version of the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show, by the way, which is a nationally syndicated radio show and we broadcast on over 115 radio stations across the United States to more than 44 million combined population. If you like our show, there's two simple things you can do. Go to our website letradio.com, add your favorites. Check it Often you can find episodes of the show right there. And the second one involves our Facebook page. It's so easy to find great content, including past episodes of the show. And when you see something that you like that resonates with you, be sure to share it with your friends. So we'll be back in just a few days with another episode of the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and podcast. Until then, this is John Jay Whiteley. See ya.

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When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

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The sun shining, birds are singing and all feels right in the world.

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Until the season changes and suddenly you lose your motivation to get up. In fact, one in five people experience some form of depression no matter the season or time of year at the

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American Psychiatric Association Foundation. Our vision is to build a mentally healthy nation for all because we want you to live your best life and be your best you all year round.

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Please visit mentallyhealthynation.org to learn more.

[Robert Sorensen]

If you like the show, please take

[Podcast Host/Producer]

a moment to rate, review and subscribe.

[Robert Sorensen]

It really does help the show to grow.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Thank you for listening.