The Murder of Cop Parents And Other Traumas

Summary

Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories
Episode: The Murder of Cop Parents And Other Traumas
Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: Dustin Dobbin (Retired Mohave County Sheriff’s Detective, former Marine, author of “The Operator’s Mindset”)
Date: May 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode examines the hidden traumas faced by law enforcement officers, going beyond the badge to the firsthand experience of violent crime investigations and their psychological toll. Retired detective and Marine veteran Dustin Dobbin shares the realities of policing rural Arizona, handling shocking criminal cases—including the accidental fire that took two children and the murder of a fellow deputy’s parents—and discusses the personal impact on his mental health. The conversation emphasizes the challenges of compartmentalizing trauma, the stigma around seeking help, and the importance of proactive self-care for law enforcement professionals.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Transitioning from Urban to Rural Policing

• Differences in Policing Environments

  • Dustin moved from city policing in Kingman, AZ to the vast, remote areas of Mohave County—a jurisdiction where backup could be an hour away, dramatically affecting officer tactics and safety.
    • "Your tactics change a little bit, but your officer safety is number one." (Dustin, 05:57)
    • Host reflects on the misconception that rural or county policing is easier, noting how dangerous it can be when help is far away.

• First Rural Call: Culture Shock

  • Dustin recalls his first call: theft of goats—very different from city crime—but quickly learned high-stakes calls still happened.
    • "First culture shock was, I think one of the first calls I got was theft of goats out in the county area. So I definitely knew I wasn't in the city anymore." (Dustin, 09:24)

Case 1: Accidental Fire—Family Tragedy

• Context & Investigative Process (14:18 - 21:08)
  • Early in his detective career, Dustin assisted on a harrowing case: an arson fire (later determined accidental) that resulted in two children (ages 13 and 5—the same ages as his own children) dying in a mobile home blaze.
    • "Having been to the war in Afghanistan in one of the most deadly places... bodies and things like that are something you expect, but... it's never anything easy to deal with when it's children." (Dustin, 16:50)
  • Initial suspicion due to a previous suicide attempt in the home, but video evidence revealed it was a freak accident caused by a faulty extension cord and nearby flammable materials.
    • "We actually saw an extension cord had sparked a fire on the front porch. And there was a bunch of paint cans and gasoline cans, so flammable substances there." (Dustin, 19:41)
  • Dustin describes the emotional impact, especially as a parent:
    • "All you picture is your children, that exact same size, that exact same age. And, you know, it hits home." (Dustin, 17:11)
  • Trauma management: He admits lingering hypervigilance at home (checking stove, forbidding candles) but has gradually “put it in its proper place.”
    • "That was one where you hug your kids and you really appreciate your family. And...would check the stove...throughout the night for a very long time." (Dustin, 23:47)

Case 2: Double Homicide—Murder of Deputy’s Parents

• The Crime & Response (24:22 - 36:48)
  • Dustin was assigned lead detective on a double homicide in a remote unincorporated town—the victims were the parents of another deputy in his agency.
    • "You know, we were treating it as any other case...then I was briefed...it was a fellow deputy’s parents who were located deceased inside the house." (Dustin, 26:02)
  • Scene details: Bodies were stacked; the mother’s hands were removed in an attempt to destroy DNA evidence after she’d scratched the suspect.
    • "The female victim, her hands had been chopped off of the body. So not typical for an accidental death..." (Dustin, 28:09)
  • Investigation tools: A hunter’s game camera in the yard yielded clear images of suspects and their vehicle.
    • "We were able to extract the SD card off of that and clearly see the vehicle, the suspects running in. It was picture perfect." (Dustin, 31:40)
  • Motive: Revenge for an unresolved, years-old accusation of sexual assault (the suspect’s sister accused the male victim). The suspect returned from another state and killed both.
    • "He decided one day he was going to come back to Arizona and then confront the male victim in this case." (Dustin, 32:34)
  • Resolution: All three suspects were arrested; the lead suspect confessed and led detectives to where he’d tried to bury the hands; convictions obtained.
    • "We apprehended all three suspects...he took us to where he had tried to bury [the hands] in the desert. And surprisingly, wildlife, nothing had gotten to them yet and we were able to recover the hands." (Dustin, 30:16)

Cumulative Trauma and Officer Resilience

• Impact of Repetitive Trauma
  • Dustin discusses how the cumulative burden from combat, policing, and major cases led to burnout and personal crisis.
    • "Everything...added up. And, you know, one day I ended up saying enough was enough and I wasn't going to do it anymore." (Dustin, 39:33)
    • Host draws the “backpack full of pebbles” analogy for incremental trauma.
• Burnout and Behavioral Changes
  • Dustin admits he became “salty,” angry, and turned to alcohol to cope, eventually leaving law enforcement.
    • "I found solutions to my problems at the bottom of a bottle and that was the way I coped with it. And I didn't like the person I was becoming." (Dustin, 41:05)
• Stigma and Importance of Therapy
  • Both guest and host emphasize the importance of trauma-informed therapy and making it a routine, de-stigmatized part of law enforcement life.
    • "If you need to talk to somebody, you definitely need to talk to somebody." (Dustin, 37:53)
    • Host’s advice: “Get yourself a trauma informed therapist and go see them before the bad stuff happens. Be proactive. Don't make the agency send you." (John, 38:44)

Recovery, Writing, and Moving Forward

• Life After Policing
  • Dustin left law enforcement, worked various jobs, and eventually entered private security contracting, finding community among other veterans and ex-cops seeking better work-life balance.
    • "I started picking up private security contracts and seeing it was a lot of guys who were just like me." (Dustin, 43:09)
• Writing “The Operator’s Mindset”
  • Book inspired by a desire to help others avoid the same mistakes and struggles with burnout.
    • "Prevention aid for other people...I didn't want people to make the same mistake I did." (Dustin, 43:53)
• Host’s Perspective: Survival, Longevity, and the Cost
  • Host offers sobering statistics: average life expectancy for US male police officers is decades less than civilians—attributable to stress, PTSD, and unhealthy coping.
    • "Average life expectancy for American male police now is 58...American men is 73. Still dying too young. Stress, PTSD, alcohol, shift work, all that." (John, 44:15)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On traumatic calls in rural policing:
  “First culture shock was...theft of goats out in the county area. So I definitely knew I wasn't in the city anymore.” – Dustin, 09:24

• On encountering children as victims:
  “All you picture is your children, that exact same size, that exact same age. And, you know, it hits home.” – Dustin, 17:11

• On the effect of trauma at home:
  “That was one where you hug your kids and you really appreciate your family. And...would check the stove...throughout the night for a very long time.” – Dustin, 23:47

• On dealing with a double homicide of a fellow officer’s parents:
  “Now, your victim is somebody that you know and love dearly, and that. That changes things.” – Dustin, 27:38
  “The female victim, her hands had been chopped off of the body. So not typical for an accidental death...” – Dustin, 28:09

• On seeking help:
  “If you need to talk to somebody, you definitely need to talk to somebody.” – Dustin, 37:53
  “Get yourself a trauma informed therapist and go see them before the bad stuff happens. Be proactive. Don't make the agency send you." – John, 38:44

• On burnout:
  “I found solutions to my problems at the bottom of a bottle and that was the way I coped with it. And I didn't like the person I was becoming.” – Dustin, 41:05

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:40 – Introduction to Dustin Dobbin: Background and career transition
• 08:33 – Culture shock: Differences between city and county policing
• 14:18 – Discussion of the accidental fire case, emotional impact
• 24:22 – The murder of fellow deputy’s parents: scene, investigation, and arrest
• 39:00 – The “backpack” analogy: cumulative trauma and mental health
• 41:05 – Burnout, coping mechanisms, and leaving law enforcement
• 43:53 – Writing the book as prevention and catharsis

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Resources & Further Information

• Guest Book: "The Operator’s Mindset" by Dustin Dobbin
• Website: taycon1.com
• Host Website: letradio.com

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“The show isn’t about glorifying law enforcement or focusing solely on training—it’s true crime with a twist, highlighting the human cost and the journey to healing.” (John J. Wiley)

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For listeners: This episode provides a frank look at the trauma faced by those who investigate the worst crimes, and serves as both a caution and a call for compassion, support, and proactive mental health care within law enforcement.

Transcript

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[John J. Wiley]

County Deputy Sheriff's Detective. He's here to talk about investigating extremely violent crime, the trauma, the impact on him and what he does about today. Welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. In the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show, we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, the realities of investigating crimes. The plus those who have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crime share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website letradio.com and also like us on Facebook Search for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. There's a couple ways you can stay in touch and keep informed of what's going on with the Law Enforcement Talk radio show. Number one, go to our website letradio.com, sign up for our email newsletter. It's really easy to find. I promise we don't spam you. I send out about one email every two weeks or so and there's also a feature called broadcast channels on our Facebook page where we send messages directly to your inbox, directly to your messenger. Real easy to sign up for. Make sure you like or follow the law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page. And up top you'll see broadcast channels one for free podcast versions of the radio show, another one top post of the day. So YouTube can stay informed quickly, easily and best of all, like always, free. Contact us From Arizona, we have Dustin Dobbin on the law enforcement talk radio show. Dustin is a former Mojave County, Arizona deputy sheriff. He is a detective. He is here to talk about some tremendously traumatic violent crime that he had to deal with that he investigated. And I'll let him explain it to you. He's also author of the book the Operator's Mindset and a website where you can find him, get more information about all he's up to. Is Taycon1.com that's T A C O N the number one dot com. Dustin, thank you for your service and thanks for talking about on law enforcement talk radio show. Both very much appreciated.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Hey, yeah. Thank you, John. Thanks for having me.

[John J. Wiley]

It's a pleasure to have you here. There's one thing about police, there's a lot about policing a lot of people don't get. But one thing that and I don't want to dwell on this and I don't want people to misread what I'm saying. I don't want people to feel sorry for me. I don't want any stuff. But it's far more traumatic and violent than people realize. And I think where you were, Mojave County, Arizona, I don't think that's a booming metropolis, is it?

[Dustin Dobbin]

No, no, it's not.

[John J. Wiley]

But that doesn't mean you're immune from this bad stuff happening.

[Dustin Dobbin]

That's correct. Yep.

[John J. Wiley]

And see, I made a mistake early on in my police career. I thought I worked in Baltimore City and I thought the county guys had it easy. They didn't handle. They're out directing traffic. They're, you know, getting cows off the road. I didn't think about stuff. I didn't think things like back up as 30 minutes away. I didn't think of a lot of things. I just thought of, man, they had it easy compared to us. And I really didn't get a better grasp of that until I retired from. Please work.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I had transferred from a city agency to the county. And that was a realization that became very apparent very quickly.

[John J. Wiley]

What city were you at? And Mojave County. So one of the biggest things obviously was manpower and manpower numbers.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, absolutely. So I transferred from the Kingman Police Department, which was a city where, you know, it's typical, your backup's two, three, maybe five minutes away at most to the fifth largest county in the nation where backup could be hours away.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, you'd never want to be in a fistfight, a fight for your life and backup is an hour away. I'm just telling five minutes seems like an eternity.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, absolutely.

[John J. Wiley]

And one thing I will say this, and I'm not saying this is a negative. If you are stopped by a state trooper or a deputy sheriff and backup is a long ways away, this is not the time to decide you're going to fight and flex because you're probably going to lose that battle. There's a reason why they work by themselves and they do that for so long and they're quite proficient.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Absolutely. Yeah. Your tactics change a little bit, but your officer safety is number one.

[John J. Wiley]

I saw an interesting. Before we get to your story, I saw an interesting thing on Facebook. And by the way, Facebook took. For the law enforcement talk radio show. You'll find us. We've got 170,000 followers and growing daily. We have a group law enforcement talk ratio and podcast the group, which is also growing as well. But one of the things I saw was an lapd. So the difference in LAPD and LA County Sheriff's Department is obvious. LAPD is more professional and the LA County Sheriff's Office, they can be a little bit more gruff.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, 100%. Yeah. And I think that's kind of a trend anywhere.

[John J. Wiley]

Yeah, well, you wouldn't think that. I wouldn't think that. I always thought, look, I'm preaching the choir here. But I always thought that, you know, the county guys were nicer than the city guys.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah. You know, and I think it depends on who you get, which officer or deputy you get. You know, there's good ones, easy ones to deal with, and then of course there's the ones that are a little hard nosed than everybody else. But, you know, I think being out in the county, like you said, being out by yourself, knowing that backup is much further away, you tend to handle things a little bit differently and the margin for error is a lot less.

[John J. Wiley]

How old were you when you made the switch from the city Police department to county sheriff's department.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Man, I was probably 29, 30, still young guy.

[John J. Wiley]

Did you do military before that?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yes, sir. I was in the Marine Corps for six years prior to law enforcement, by the way.

[John J. Wiley]

I worked with some great. And I'm an old timer a lot older than you, Dustin. I was trained by a lot of Vietnam combat veterans that were police in Baltimore. And we had a few members of command staff. They're Korean War veterans. And they did not play.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, no, they did not play.

[John J. Wiley]

And there was a big proponent, and there still are, and everybody I know, the big proponents of respect and that you give respect all the time to people you deal with until they change the tone of the conversation and then there's absolutely zero backing down.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, 100%. No better friend, no worse enemy.

[John J. Wiley]

That's exactly right. And some of the best police I worked with were prior military. So thank you for your service there as well. When you made the jump from the city police department to the county, was it a bit of a shock for you?

[Dustin Dobbin]

I think the nature of the calls for service was definitely a shock. I made the transition. I had some friends who were at the neighboring county agency and you know, the agency was growing, they were developing a SWAT team, the detective bureau was growing. So there was a lot of opportunity for growth, which in a small town in Arizona is, you know, crucial.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, all I know about Arizona is the song from the Eagles. What is it? Winslow, Arizona?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yep.

[John J. Wiley]

That's the only thing I know about Arizona. I don't know anything about it other than it's hot and it's dry.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, 100%.

[John J. Wiley]

By the way, I'm a virus descent and that doesn't go well with me. So you saw a big opportunity and you made the decision to leave. What was your first reaction when you left and joined that sheriff's agency?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Well, so I had a sergeant from Kenyan police department. He had lateraled over as well. So naturally they put me with him. And he had left, you know, maybe two months or so prior to me. So he, you know, kind of showed me the ropes of the county. But, you know, the first culture shock was, I think one of the first calls I got was theft of goats out in the county area. So I definitely knew I wasn't in the city anymore.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, that would be a wake up call, by the way. I never made it my first call. We didn't have gps. We didn't have all that stuff. They were given a battery and a map. And my first call was way down the hole of 622post and I never found it. Someone else handled it. I don't remember what it was. I just remember, oh my goodness, what do I do now and then? Here's the thing. So the first time I handled a DOA that's dead on arrival and it was an elderly person in a modified quasi old folks home that had died unexpectedly in their bathtub. And first of all there's no dignity, there's no self respect, there's none of that stuff. But I didn't know what to do. I didn't know how to handle it. It was a far cry from theft of goats. We're talking with Dustin Dobbin and when we return on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show, we're going to talk about some of his experiences invested investigating violent crime. He's the author of the book the Operator's Mindset and a website where you get more details about dustin is taycon1.com as t a c o n the number1.com this is law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Don't go anywhere. I promise ya. We'll be right back.

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[John J. Wiley]

Returning conversation with Dustin Dobbin is a former Mojave County, Arizona sheriff's detective and he's also authors the book. The operator's mindset website is tacom1.com that's t a c o n1.com. He's a United States Marine Corps veteran as well. He worked in police department in Arizona and also the sheriff's department. When? We'll talk about those in a few moments. First of all, Dustin, you said that Theft of Ghosts was your first call and that was your wake up call, that things were a little bit different.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, absolutely, yeah. And you know, like you had mentioned previously, you know, the unmaintained and unnamed roads, you know, having to rely on maps and things instead of gps, whereas, you know, a city is, you know, built in a grid and beats and everything's laid out for you. It was definitely an adjustment for me.

[John J. Wiley]

And then you get the enormity of the call. I don't want to look like the guy that. What are you saying? You know, I want to be on the radio, go. What did you just send me to?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Definitely had to hit the Arizona revised statutes a little bit more to find out, you know, how to handle some of these types of calls.

[John J. Wiley]

But the reality is, look, those types of calls might be few and far between, but there's also, there's the heavy duty calls. And one of them was an arson fire where the family of five was involved and two were killed. Two children.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, absolutely. Very tough call.

[John J. Wiley]

And how long were you in the sheriff's agency when that occurred?

[Dustin Dobbin]

So I had been there probably over a year at that point. I was pretty fresh as a detective, only detective for, you know, maybe four or five months at that time.

[John J. Wiley]

And you get this dropped in. By the way, probably the good news is you got promoted detective. The bad news, you got promoted detective, and it's on you 100%. And did this when you got dispatched his call, did the enormity of it hit you immediately?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah. So, you know, we had been to other arsons. I was a part of an arson task force because we had a little bit of an arson problem going around in the county area and, you know, the smells of a structure fire. Something you'll never get out of your nose, right?

[John J. Wiley]

No. And the only thing worse than that for me, was the smell of burning flesh.

[Dustin Dobbin]

100%. Yeah.

[John J. Wiley]

And to this day, I can't really understand, but when I look at arson investigations and look, to me, that's a foreign skill set. They can determine the source of the fire. They determine whether it's arson, whether it happened accidentally. Where were you? Take us back. Where did you find out that this was set on purpose?

[Dustin Dobbin]

So at the time of the call, we didn't know for sure, but we knew one of the people in the house had a previous suicide attempt the week prior, which was pretty violent, and. And that individual ended up surviving both that encounter and this fire. So originally it came out, you know, detectives were dispatched to investigate whether or not this was an arson. And ultimately we ended up finding out it was not intentionally said.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, that's some good news. But there was multiple victims in this, right?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, there's the trauma aspect of it. You know, having been to the war in Afghanistan in one of the most deadly places, staying in Afghanistan, you know, bodies and things like that are something you expect, but, you know, it's never anything easy to deal with when it's children.

[John J. Wiley]

And you had. I'm looking the notes. A family of five and two were killed, and they were 13 and five.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, yeah. Which, ironically, was the exact ages of my children at that time.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, it's a double whammy, because people say this all the time as if it's easy to separate the two. It's not easy.

[Dustin Dobbin]

No, no. Especially when you're looking at, you know, the charred remains of children. You know, all you picture is your children, that exact same size, that exact same age. And, you know, it hits home.

[John J. Wiley]

And one thing you said was, and I'm not trying to diminish your service overseas, but you kind of expected this kind of bloodshed and trauma in Afghanistan. Did you expect it in Arizona?

[Dustin Dobbin]

You know, not to the extent that we experienced it. You know, this was during COVID and, you know, those times. So crime had picked up, homicides had picked up. You know, we were extremely busy during this time.

[John J. Wiley]

Right. I had a guest on the show, Maureen Enner, recently, and her husband was Oscar Rocha. He was at the Alameda County Sheriff's Office, and he developed line of duty. COVID 19, and he died. And she's still in a fight with the county for her benefits. And that's a different conversation for a different day. But we didn't have that when I was policing. We didn't have pandemics.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, yeah. And it showed on the Crime stats as well. You know, people being cooped up at home, the stresses of layoffs and losing people's jobs. You know, homicides went through the roof. We would go back to back homicides, officer involved shootings to, yeah, I mean, you name it. Violent crimes all over the place. It was very, very busy.

[John J. Wiley]

The only thing I can remember was, and this is really unique weather wise, in a wintertime, domestic violence would pick up more because people were home more. But one thing that seemed to be predominant back in the day, back way, way back in the day, is when there was snowfall. We had an uptick in rapes.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[John J. Wiley]

And I never understood why the correlation between it just maybe it was. And I learned this lesson as a rookie. Never say, oh, it's a quiet night, because that's a guarantee it's not going to be quiet.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, yeah, you're jinxing it.

[John J. Wiley]

And the other thing I don't understand too, and we'll get into conversation with you is the full moon. And people say, as if I'm supposed to be a believer in that, the gravitational pulls the same whether it be a full moon or partial moon. But the weirdos seem to come out when a full moon's out.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, 100%. I don't know the science behind it, but I know it's true.

[John J. Wiley]

So what was the outcome of this investigation for the arson fire? You said? The good news is it was. It was not intentionally said, correct?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah. We were able to get some video footage from the neighbors where we actually saw an extension cord had sparked a fire on the front porch. And there was a. A bunch of paint cans and gasoline cans, so flammable substances there. And it was a mobile home type structure, so it just went up very quickly. And unfortunately, the parents were unable to get all of the children out of the fire before the whole house was engulfed.

[John J. Wiley]

And here you were, you were about a year in, detective. And did you feel an enormous responsibility?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, absolutely, yeah. So, you know, I wasn't even the case detective on this case, but the guy who was, was very close friend of mine. And, you know, I was there for him throughout the whole case. We went, we drove to the hospital together to, you know, get interviews from the rest of the family who had also been severely burned and had smoke inhalation. And, you know, this was. We had to drive up to Las Vegas because that was where they were flown out to the nearest level one trauma center. Again, during COVID the Strip, everything was completely empty. And the whole case seems so surreal during that time and thank goodness the drive was about an hour, hour and a half where myself and the other detective could decompress and talk about some of the things that we were struggling with dealing with that case.

[John J. Wiley]

I can imagine that there's a lot of things that you're struggling with, especially with your children being a similar age, 13 and 5. Through his victims, we're talking about an accidental fire that wound up injuring a family of five in Arizona, killing two kids 13 and 5 years old. We're talking with Dustin Dobbin. He is a former police officer in a city in Arizona, became a Mojave county sheriff's detective. Before that he was a member of the United States Marine Corps serving in Afghanistan. He's authored the book the Operator's Mindset and his website to get more information about him. What he does takeonone.com as T A C O N T A c o n the number1.com this is law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

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This is the story of the one As a procurement manager for a hospital system, she keeps every facility in her network stocked and ready. That's why she counts on Grainger to be her single source for thousands of products from disinfectants to lighting, air filters and more. And with fast, dependable delivery, Granger helps her keep every facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[John J. Wiley]

Kante is from Arizona. We have Dustin Dobbin on the law enforcement talk radio show. Dustin is a former Mojave County Sheriff's detective and before that he worked for a police department in Arizona. Before that he was the United States Marine Corps stationed in Afghanistan. Saw some combat there. He's author of the book Perseverance the Operator's Mindset and his website get more information about what he does. Taycon1.com that's T A C O N the number one. First of all, we talked about the fire scene. Have you put that to rest or put it in his proper place or does it still bother you?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Well, you know, it was one thing that bothered me for a long time. You know, that was one of those cases where you went home and you know, you showered afterwards because you're covered in soot and remains of the house. But you know, that was one where you hug your kids and you really appreciate your family. And you know, I struggled. I didn't let my wife light candles and you know, would check the stove and things, you know, throughout the night for a very long time. But you know, I think I'm definitely much better than I was at that point.

[John J. Wiley]

Here's the thing that these things that I put them in a proper place but that doesn't mean they don't come up periodically.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh yeah, absolutely.

[John J. Wiley]

And that's why I appreciate you talking about it even more so because it brings up a lot of unpleasant memories. Secondly, we're going to talk about a murder investigation you're involved in where the family, the mother and father of one of the deputies that you worked with, they were killed.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah. Yep.

[John J. Wiley]

Was the deputy working?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah. So he had either was working or he had worked earlier in the day. But he had known that a call had come out at his parents house which was about, I'd say probably 30 or 45 minutes away from where he lived.

[John J. Wiley]

Don't tell me he had one of the scanner devices in his back in the day.

[Dustin Dobbin]

No. So I think it was another deputy who had tipped him off that a call had come out at his parents house who was also very close with his deputy. So you know, we obviously had to immediately do damage control and make sure that he didn't show up and we weren't any information to them.

[John J. Wiley]

That's another thing that my wife and I, I don't like watching American made police dramas because quite often they get it wrong and it's people that are intimately involved in crime, they are not allowed to get involved. That's a TV thing.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh yeah, absolutely.

[John J. Wiley]

And part of the reason why, and I want to get to your story in a moment, is because typically when it comes to investigating crimes, especially violent crimes, which this certainly is one of them, you go from a crime scene, you work your way out and you can't walk in with a preconceived idea of what happened. You've got to let the evidence dictate the case.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Absolutely neutral fact finders.

[John J. Wiley]

And what was your role in this investigation?

[Dustin Dobbin]

So I was the case detective assigned to this case.

[John J. Wiley]

Wow. Lucky you. First of all, before we get into the case, how's that deputy doing?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, he's much better. Yeah, he's still a good friend of mine. We stay in contact and he's worked past it. You know, the bad guys are in jail and that's what matters.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, and I'm going fast forward. You made three arrests and they were found guilty. They're incarcerated. That's the last one. Talk about. Talk about the case itself. What happened.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, so, you know, this was one of those times. I had just gotten home from a normal day's work, and I was the on call detective. The detective sergeant called me and let me know that there was a double homicide out in basically the boonies, middle of nowhere, little, little, very small unincorporated town outside of, you know, the main cities. And we showed up. I wasn't told any of the backstory information at that time until I showed up on scene. You know, we were treating it as any other case, any other homicide, beginning the paperwork, the search warrants, things like that. And then I was briefed on the fact that it was a fellow deputy's parents who were located deceased inside the house.

[John J. Wiley]

And that's. I'm put it bluntly, that's unusual, Very unusual.

[Dustin Dobbin]

And, you know, it adds a personal level to the case. You know, you. Now, your victim is somebody that you know and love dearly, and that. That changes things.

[John J. Wiley]

And the mother and father of the deputy that were killed, was it obvious to you as a homicide?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, absolutely. The way the bodies were, they were stacked on top of each other and, you know, blood. Typical homicide scenes.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, the reason I'm bringing up is not to sound idiotic, but a lot of people don't seem to understand that some things are obvious. Homicides, though police are not allowed to say that until a medical examiner does an autopsy. But sometimes things look like they're suicides or unexpected deaths, and it turns out it's. It's a homicide. And a lot of it has to do with the. The backstory or the context.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah. So in this one in particular was, you know, he. The bodies or the remains, they were found by a neighbor who was trusted, you know, who was always in and out of that house freely, and he had let us know, like, for sure they had been murdered. First glance for us doing our security sweep, we noticed immediately with a homicide because the female Victim, her hands had been chopped off of the body. So not typical for an accidental death or anything like that.

[John J. Wiley]

No. And it's usually a good indicator that the suspect or person involved, they're not there. That doesn't happen accidentally by itself.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Absolutely.

[John J. Wiley]

Here's the question. When hands are removed, it's often. Maybe I'm old and I'm old fashioned imagining it's often because of identifying, identifying the victims and fingerprints. Was that the case with this?

[Dustin Dobbin]

So this one, we had gotten some information that possibly the male subject in this case was selling marijuana on the side. So having been a former gang detective with my first agency, you know, my mind and instantly went to a cartel type thing or drug related crime, stealing, something like that, which is typical. But actually what turned out was exactly like you're talking about. During the struggle with the suspect, one of the suspects, the female, had scratched the suspect and he was worried about the DNA under the fingernail.

[John J. Wiley]

So there was an identifying factor. Were the hands located and found?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yes, yes, surprisingly, you know, after we, I believe it was a day or two, we apprehended all three suspects in the case and we got a confession from the main suspect who had removed the hands. We actually ended up getting him out of jail and he took us to where he had tried to bury him in the desert. And surprisingly, wildlife, nothing had gotten to him yet and we were able to recover the hands.

[John J. Wiley]

That sounds like it's good police work. I got a question for you that when did you realize that you knew who the bad guys were and what their motives were?

[Dustin Dobbin]

So this is. And sometimes in police work things just fall into place. And this was one of those cases. This house was kind of like a cabin type structure out in the middle of nowhere. So there was no working power. So even after our security sweep, we waited until the morning time to start to execute that warrant. So we had the light of day to be able to see the scene a little bit better. But for a camera system, the homeowners had put a game camera in the front yard and we were able to extract the SD card off of that and clearly see the vehicle, the suspects running in. I mean it was picture perfect. The way it worked out.

[John J. Wiley]

When you were doing the investigation, what was their reason for this committing this crime? Often there is a reason and it's. I know they say this, I didn't mean to kill them, was an accident quite often, but there's usually another crime beforehand. Did you determine what that was?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Oh, yeah. So, you know, throughout the investigation, the interviews and everything. It was actually another relative of the family who had moved away many years ago. But there was an accusation of sexual assault between the male subject, the male victim, and the sister of this other family member and he had not been able to let it go. I think it was like six or seven years prior. He lived in another state. He decided one day he was going to come back to Arizona and then confront the male victim in this case.

[John J. Wiley]

We'll return that conversation in just a moment. We're talking about Austin Dobbin. He's a former Mohave County, Arizona sheriff's detective, and we're talking about a murder where a mother and father of a deputy he worked with were killed. He's authored the book the Operator's Mindset and a website. You can get more information about him, what he does Taycon1.com that's T A C O N the number1.com this is law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Be sure to check out our website letradio.com that's L E T radio.com there you'll find episodes of the show available as a podcast after airing on radio. And they're always free. There's 700 plus episodes on there right now. There's blogs. Get information about our sponsors. All that and much [e-mail] again the website is let's radio.com you're on a GLP1.

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[Grainger Announcer]

This is the story of the one As a procurement manager for a hospital system, she keeps every facility in her network stocked and ready. That's why she counts on Grainger to be her single source for thousands of products, from disinfectants to lighting, air filters and more. And with fast, dependable delivery, Grainger helps Her keep every facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[John J. Wiley]

Return to conversation with Dustin Dobbin on the law enforcement talk. Raider Shell. He is a former Muhammad county sheriff's detective. He is also a police officer in another agency in Arizona. Before that, he was a United States Marine corps veteran in Afghanistan. Has written a book called Perseverance, the operator's Mindset, which is available pretty much everywhere. And a website. You can get more details about him, what he does. Take on one.com that's T A C O N the number one.com four winter break. Dustin, you're talking about this murder. And there was depressing, unresolved issues that the suspect had with one of the victims.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yep, yep, exactly right. And, you know, a physical altercation ensued in which the female victim in this case jumped in and the suspect had a gun. He shot both of them, killing them, and then removed the hands of the female victim because he was worried about the DNA under her fingernails and all that.

[John J. Wiley]

He got found guilty anyway, 100%. And I would love to say that he's cooling his heels appropriately in the Gray Bar Motel.

[Dustin Dobbin]

That's it. And he'll be there the rest of

[John J. Wiley]

his life, by the way. There's, there's, there's things. I'm not saying anybody's right or wrong, but if you have this going on, there's ways to handle it, and that is not the way to handle it.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, that's correct. And you know, that that previous case had been adjudicated with, you know, no charges or anything like that. You know, that was his motive and he stuck to it.

[John J. Wiley]

And did this dwell on you or did hang around because that's a heavy duty crime.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, you know, that was a challenging case. Again, this was during COVID You know, we were all battling what was going on with COVID at home. You know, being a detective during that time, constantly being called out. I was on the SWAT team as well, and I was also an instructor at the police academy. So, you know, very, very busy.

[John J. Wiley]

Before we do that, is there anything you didn't volunteer for?

[Dustin Dobbin]

No, not really. So, yeah, you know, just very, very busy time, you know, and stuff like that takes a toll on the family. And, you know, you have to go to work and still do your job.

[John J. Wiley]

One of the things that I always say was it wasn't the really big things that I struggled with. It was the mundane day in, day out policing. And this Is all before we had peer support teams, critical incident debriefing, all that stuff that wasn't even thought of. What we had for therapeutic reasons was a case of beer in a parking lot. That's what we did.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, those resources are out there, but a lot of guys, they fail to use them because of the stigma behind it. You know, you don't want to be viewed as weak, you know, so. And that's not the right way to think. You know, if you need to talk to somebody, you definitely need to talk to somebody.

[John J. Wiley]

One of the things that I tell people, and I get this question far more often than you would think, so people, when they realize what I did, what I do now, and they're like, oh, meet my son, meet my daughter. They want to be a police officer. What advice would you give them? And they're shocked when I tell them. The advice I give them is, you go to see a dentist every year for examination. You go to a general practitioner every year for an examination. Get yourself a trauma informed therapist and go see them before the bad stuff happens. Be proactive. Don't make the agency send you.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Absolutely. And, you know, I, you know, like I mentioned, I left the Marine Corps, jumped right into law enforcement.

[John J. Wiley]

You didn't give yourself a break at all, did you?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, no decompression period. And, you know, eventually that cup's going to overfill and you got to take care of it.

[John J. Wiley]

One of the best analogies, years of doing a show that someone gave me and it stuck with me, they're saying, and I imagine is the case with you, I'm a formus. In a phrasable question, he said that policing in the United States was like getting a brand new state of the art backpack. And every call you went to, everything you handled, every crime you handled, was you're picking up a stone or pebble and putting in a backpack. Some are big, some are small. But there's gonna come a point. If you don't unload that burden, it's going to break. And the impact can be devastating. Was it devastating for you?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, everything that went through in the military and then and through law enforcement and childhood, everything, and it all added up. And, you know, one day I ended up saying enough was enough and I wasn't going to do it anymore. And, you know, I ended up dipping my toe back in and doing it the right way.

[John J. Wiley]

When you say dipping your toe back in, doing it the right way, there was a come to Jesus moment. I'M sure for you, where you're like, I've got to do things differently.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Absolutely, Absolutely.

[John J. Wiley]

And I look back now and some of the things, they seemed corny at the time. The guys who always brought their lunch, the guys who went square dancing, the guys who stayed members of the church, did all that stuff I thought was super square at the time. They're the ones that, that did better. If you like a hobby, stick with it. Don't make this job your entire life. Did you make it your entire life?

[Dustin Dobbin]

I did, I did. And I didn't know how to turn it off. You know, like I said, I volunteered for all those things and I never said no to anything. So, you know, I ended up burning myself out, essentially. How old were you when you burned out, man? I was 30, 33, 34.

[John J. Wiley]

That's still young. That's a young man. And I gotta ask this question. And whether you answer or not is totally up to you. A lot of people, they become salty. That's the term we have for veteran officers that you can't tell them nothing or they leave law enforcement altogether. Was that the choice for you?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah. So, you know, I joined the Marine Corps when I was 17 years old, so I was very young when I joined. And then, like I said, I never gave myself a break. So I didn't like who I was becoming. I found solutions to my problems at the bottom of a bottle and that was the way I coped with it. And I didn't like the person I was becoming because I was salty, I was angry, and I despised going to work where when I first started it was a job I loved and I would get excited for. But everything seemed to change after a while.

[John J. Wiley]

And the question was, for me anyway, was because what really changed the job didn't change. I'm the one who changed.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yep, that's exactly it.

[John J. Wiley]

And Dustin, I'm not going to ask you this, but there came a point where I became deeply ashamed of who I was, not what I did, of the person I've become. Okay, that's good. I'm not going to ask you that, but that's good that you admit that. Is that when you decided to write the book?

[Dustin Dobbin]

No. So, you know, I left law enforcement. I had some buddies who were doing private security contracting and I was hearing about all the money they were making and how, you know, it was a real work life balance. You know, you go work a three month contract and make all the money you need for the year and take the rest of the time off, you know, and then all the stresses of work and the people had changed a little bit. You know, the environment changed around 2020. And, you know, it just. Like I said, it was becoming a job where I hated coming to work every day. I was getting anxiety every time I make it to the detective bureau and wondering what kind of caseload I had for the day. And, you know, I just didn't want to do that anymore, so I left. And I did a lot of weird, odd jobs. You know, my buddy, he worked. He had opened a butcher shop, and I helped him there for a while. I was helping some attorney attorneys with some private investigation cases.

[John J. Wiley]

I did that, too. I hated it.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, it was terrible.

[John J. Wiley]

The clientele was horrible.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah. Yeah. And then that, you know, I started picking up private security contracts and seeing it was a lot of guys who were just like me. I got a bunch of guys who are military veterans and law enforcement veterans who wanted a better job, a better quality of life. And. And I fell right into it.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, one of the things that about this job is so much is beyond your control. And we were shift work. We had rotating days off. We had weekends. If you're a detective, you do anything to get off the street after a while. And then you had the phone call late at night. You got to go handle. There's no saying no. So when you wrote the book, was there cathartic reasons for doing it, or did you write as a prevention aid for other people?

[Dustin Dobbin]

Prevention aid for other people is mainly it. You know, I didn't want people to make the same mistake I did. And I had heard about it. You know, all the senior guys tell me, don't burn yourself out. You know, if you need to talk to somebody, talk to somebody. But that's good.

[John J. Wiley]

That's good for someone else. It's not. I don't need that. Thank you for saying that.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, 100%. And then, you know what? One day it hit me, and I thought, I should have listened to everybody.

[John J. Wiley]

Yeah. The good news is we're having a conversation now. The bad news is, and I'll remind people this, when I was in the academy, police academy, we had a major come talk to me. He said the average life expectancy for a Baltimore city police officer then was 52. They used to die within two years of retiring. The average life expectancy for American male police now is 58, while the average, from what I've seen for American men is 73. Still dying too young. Stress, PTSD, alcohol, shift work, all that, that plays a part. So the fact that you are talking about. This is not lost on me. We're talking with Dustin Dobbin, former Mohave County Sheriff's Detective, Marine Corps veteran, Police Department veteran in Arizona as well and he's authored the book the Offer Writer's Mindset and his website. You can get more information about him is Tayconone.com that's T A C O N1.com again Dustin, thanks for your service and thanks for talking about on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show. Both very much appreciate.

[Dustin Dobbin]

Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me.

[John J. Wiley]

This was the podcast version of the nationally syndicated Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and we are so glad that you decided to join us. Big thanks to our guests for telling our story on the show. Two simple things you can do Be sure to check out our website letradio.com that's letradio.com and be sure to follow us or like us us on Facebook. Do a search on Facebook for Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and be sure when you see a post that we put up that you like, that you resonate with, that gets your attention. Be sure to share it with your friends. We'll be back in just a few days. Another great episode of the show. See you then.

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[Dustin Dobbin]

If you like the show, please take

[John J. Wiley]

a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.