The Pressure of Police Work: From Cameras to Traps

Summary

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Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories

Episode: The Pressure of Police Work: From Cameras to Traps

Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: Tom Weitzel, Retired Police Chief, Riverside, Illinois
Date: September 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the immense and evolving pressures in modern law enforcement, focusing on what it feels like to work "in the fishbowl"—constantly observed and scrutinized by both the public and internal hierarchies. Jay Wiley (retired Baltimore Police Sergeant) welcomes returning guest Tom Weitzel, retired Police Chief of Riverside, Illinois, to talk about the impact of public and media scrutiny, the daily stressors of police life, changing training requirements, dealing with political pressures, command-level challenges, and the personal dimensions of policing—including the legacy Weitzel sees as his own children enter the profession.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The "Fishbowl Effect" and Public Scrutiny

[13:51]

• Description: Officers, especially those on day shift, feel they are constantly being watched—by supervisors, command staff, and increasingly, the public with cell phones.

  • Quote:

    “Those officers that were on day shift were definitely in the fishbowl. They're always being looked at... they were uncomfortable sometimes going to eat in public places... They were constantly either eating in the squad car or bringing it back to the station.”
    — Tom Weitzel [13:51]

• First Amendment Auditors: Persistent individuals record officers in public spaces, seeking to provoke or capture mistakes for viral content.

  • Quote:

    “They’d sit in front of our police lobby and wait for you to come out... and try to antagonize you for a response... I had to just go to the officers and say, ‘They're going to try to get you to respond in a negative manner, so just be professional and walk.’ ”
    — Tom Weitzel [16:35]

• Peer and Supervisor Scrutiny: Law enforcement is unique in how much in-house pressure exists on top of public scrutiny, fueling stress and avoidance of “fishbowl” shifts.

2. Media, "Gotcha Culture," and the Stress of Constant Recording

[09:43]

• Media "Gotcha" Tactics: A relentless environment in larger metro areas (like Chicago), with news outlets and activists aiming to catch officers in any slipup.

  • Quote:

    “The gotcha culture now is video. No police officer wants to be the next YouTube sensation... People wait in the weeds for you to make mistakes, especially in law enforcement.”
    — Tom Weitzel [09:43]

• Host's Reflection:

  • Quote:

    “When you have a uniform, you work in patrol and you're in a marcar, you are a target.”
    — Jay Wiley [10:06]

3. Training, Preparedness, and Public Misconceptions

[18:52]

• Ongoing and Exhaustive Training: Contrary to popular belief, police undergo frequent, extensive training and routine updates.

  • Quote:

    “It took a long time... you took three to four months of police academy training, three months of field officer training... You're talking about nine or ten months... They weren't on their own for 10 months.”
    — Tom Weitzel [19:29]

• Public & Legislative Disconnect: New mandates increase training requirements, often without funding or consideration of logistical strain.

  • Quote:

    “They keep passing legislation that requires more training for the officers without funding, but it also takes those officers out of patrol and you're having to cover shifts.”
    — Tom Weitzel [19:29]

4. Political and Administrative Complexities

[06:58], [24:29]

• Speaking Freely as a Retired Chief:

  • Quote:

    “As a retired chief, I can speak a little bit clearer. I'm not in fear of a politician threatening my job because I say something they don't like.”
    — Tom Weitzel [06:58]

• Supportive Administration: Rare but valuable, as Weitzel describes his own experience with politicians who valued honest policing—contrast to many chiefs who feel muzzled by political climates.

• Voter Empowerment: Host stresses the need for voters to scrutinize politicians who control department budgets and funding for critical resources (like K9 vests or entire K9 programs).

  • Quote:

    “If you want police officers to show up with canine dogs when your Aunt Sally is missing... it's going to cost money. Politicians are the ones that make that happen... you have the power of the booth.”
    — Jay Wiley [05:52]

5. Internal Affairs, Accountability, and Breaking Stereotypes

[25:11]

• "Thin Blue Line" Misconceptions: Both discuss how the idea of a conspiratorial silence among police is unfounded.

  • Quote:

    “Officers, you know, good police officers hate bad and corrupt police officers. That's what the public needs to know. It's not this narrative that we're hiding officers that shouldn't be on the job. That is just not correct.”
    — Tom Weitzel [25:48]

• Ability to Investigate Internally: Internal affairs can and does hold officers accountable.

  • Quote:

    “Sometimes investigating your own is a good thing... You know how the procedures are supposed to go, you know when mistakes have [been made]... If you set your internal affairs up correctly... you can definitely investigate your own.”
    — Tom Weitzel [26:53]

6. Realities of Use of Force, Decision-Making, and Media Narratives

[32:15]

• Host Observes Media Focus:

  • Quote:

    “The headlines or reads with the cops actions and they don't talk about the 15 or 50 other decisions that the person made beforehand... all they want to focus on is that the officer shot.”
    — Jay Wiley [31:15]

• Chief's Confirmation: There’s always a larger context missing from the viral video snippet.

  • Quote:

    “That was almost an everyday occurrence. There was always more to that short snippet that you'd see on television... but there was always different events that led up to the police having that encounter.”
    — Tom Weitzel [32:15]

• Debate on Pretextual Stops: Weitzel clarifies legality and necessity of stops often mischaracterized by critics.

  • Quote:

    “The United States Supreme Court said pretextual traffic stops are totally legal... That's good police work.”
    — Tom Weitzel [28:23]

• Majority of Calls are Reactive:

  • Quote:

    “Over a five year study… over 85% of the calls that police respond to... are called in by citizens and only 15%... are self initiated.”
    — Tom Weitzel [30:01]

7. Command Staff, Support, and Inter-Departmental Loyalty

[37:33]

• Command Responsiveness:

  • Quote:

    “We're not office, okay? ...My commanders will be out with the officers... If detectives need you for support, you will be out there... any time an officer was injured in the line of duty, command personnel would show up... we never, never did not support our personnel.”
    — Tom Weitzel [37:33]

• Leadership Philosophy: Supporting officers through mistakes is as important—if not more—than backing them when they’re right.

  • Quote:

    “Our officers deserve our support. Even when they make minor mistakes... that’s probably a more important time that they need our support—to have maybe retraining or counseling... Positive reinforcement is a lot better than disciplining somebody for some minor infraction.”
    — Tom Weitzel [38:50]

8. Legacy and Family

[36:01]

• Passing Down the Badge: Weitzel’s three adult children are all police officers, intensifying his appreciation for the job’s challenges and his personal stake in police culture, leadership, and well-being.
  • Quote:

    “If your department is not treating you well... then you need to go somewhere where your police leadership and your political leadership is going to back you or at least support you in your career path.”
    — Tom Weitzel [36:01]

9. Tactics, Training, and the Real Dangers

[43:06]

• Weapon Retention and Danger of the Job: Many officers killed are killed with their own guns; weapon retention is crucial, and often overlooked by the public and media.

  • Quote:

    “One of the most dangerous things you can do in policing is get into a fight for your control of your weapon... If you don't know how to properly retain your weapon, you're in big trouble.”
    — Tom Weitzel [43:37]

• Reinvention for Modern Audiences: Both host and guest highlight the mismatch between the reality of policing and the public’s perception—driven by sensational, context-free headlines and viral clips.

10. Media, Social Platforms, and Reclaiming the Narrative

[44:43]

• Responding to Misinformation: Weitzel remains active on social media to correct falsehoods and provide transparency about law enforcement.
  • Quote:

    “They're not telling the realities of police work... I wanted to address those situations. It's just blatant lies. It's not true.”
    — Tom Weitzel [44:43]

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• "No police officer wants to be the next YouTube sensation." — Tom Weitzel [09:43]
• "If you want police officers to show up with canine dogs when your Aunt Sally is missing... it's going to cost money." — Jay Wiley [05:52]
• "Good police officers hate bad and corrupt police officers." — Tom Weitzel [25:48]
• "We're responding to what citizens are filing a complaint on." — Tom Weitzel [30:38]
• "The gotcha culture now is video." — Tom Weitzel [09:43]
• "If your department is not treating you well... then you need to go somewhere where your leadership will back you." — Tom Weitzel [36:01]

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Segment Timestamps

• [03:00] The danger and lack of early career safety equipment—buying his own vest
• [05:52] Underfunding of canine units and the impact of political decision-making
• [09:43] The rise of the "gotcha culture" and media-centric pitfalls in law enforcement
• [13:51] The “fishbowl effect” for officers, particularly on day shift
• [16:35] Navigating the challenge of First Amendment auditors
• [18:52] Reality and extensiveness of police training
• [25:11] Debunking the "thin blue line of silence" myth and internal accountability
• [32:15] How media misrepresents incidents by leaving out crucial context
• [36:01] Parenting and policing: advice to his children in law enforcement
• [37:33] Command priorities: supporting officers, especially after mistakes or injuries
• [43:06] The danger of weapon retention and realities of use-of-force struggles
• [44:43] Why being visible on social media matters for telling the police side of the story

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Tone and Style

Casual, direct, and sometimes self-deprecating, both Wiley and Weitzel are frank about the hardships, contradictions, and misconceptions that surround police work—while fiercely advocating for transparency, officer wellness, and public understanding. They blend humor, first-hand experience, and professional candor throughout.

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For listeners seeking an insider’s perspective on the state of modern policing, this episode is equal parts a reality check, myth-busting session, and personal reflection on the high-stakes challenges—and ongoing evolution—of law enforcement today.

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.

[B]

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[C]

What is the fishbowl effect? We'll give you a hint. It's stress from constant observation. He's a retired police chief in Riverside, Illinois and he's here to talk about that, the stress of policing and the stress of being police chief. It's coming up on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. It's welcome to Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. We are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, their realities of investigating crimes, plus those who have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crimes share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website, letradio.com and also like us on Facebook, search for the law enforcement Talk Radio show. You know we used to have an app and it was a very popular app and then guess what? We couldn't hold a candle through our Facebook presence. How many people have the mobile Facebook app already installed on their phone? How many people use it on their computer? Make sure you follow us. Make sure you like us on our Facebook page. Just search for law enforcement Talk radio show and podcast and be sure to send us a comment to one of the posts. Best of all as 100% free, join us on the Law enforcement Talk ratio. We have Tom Weitzel. Tom is retired police chief from Riverside, Illinois. He's been on the show multiple times before. A good guy. He is a really good guy and I personally can say this if he's a police chief and I like him. He's okay in my book because a lot of times the admin staff and I don't get along, which is okay. And you've been on the show multiple times, Tom, and you're retired now and you serve your entire career. Riverside, Illinois, that's a suburb of Chicago, isn't it?

[B]

Yeah, Correct. It's a suburb of only about 10,000, and it's just west of the city of Chicago by about maybe three miles.

[C]

And we said this in past episodes, a town with the name of Riverside. You say, oh, man. And nothing bad ever happens there. You were shot earlier in your career and what saved your life was you purchased. You and the missus purchased the vest because they weren't supplied by the department back then. Am I correct?

[B]

That is correct. I was shot in the line of duty and they did not provide the vest. And my wife actually purchased the vest as a gift to me when I started. That is correct.

[C]

And back then. I remember those days. And I want to say this all the time. I don't. On our Facebook page, just look for law enforcement talk radio show. One of the things that. And I'm going to get off on my soapbox here is we were given vests. We're given front panel vests only in 1980 in Baltimore because stats didn't show the cops were shot in the back, so they didn't spend the extra money and they were supposed to replace every five years. And I can tell you I don't think mine was replaced in 11 years. And one of the things I'm getting at is people say with canine dogs all the time, well, make sure they have a protective vest. I'm thinking, you know, most departments, have you heard of this thing, political defund police? They don't. They don't pay for Police Department K9 teams. That's all done by donation. And if you want to make sure your K9 has a vest, there's lots of great charities out there that buy them.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. You're absolutely right. Sometimes we can't even purchase the vest for officers, although that's pretty uncommon nowadays. But, yeah, all the K9 programs in our area are funded by private, private entities.

[C]

And it's not that we don't care. And people would say, I could go off on this, but it's not that we don't care about ours. You won't find a bigger dog lover than me. I have my Rottweiler home. Enoch, he's our 13th Rottweiler. He's the best dog ever. I love big dogs. And back in my day in the Baltimore Police Department, the dogs they got for the K9 division were picked up from humane societies or shelters because they were unwanted, because they had too high of a drive. And they trained them to become police dogs. Nowadays, they buy them for a lot of different reasons, and they usually go for Belgian Malinois because they mature faster, they're in the game quicker, they last a little longer, and there's a lot less food, and food costs money. Am I missing something here?

[B]

No, you're dead on. I mean, in our area was here in Illinois. I mean, we would constantly get veterinarians, though, that they would volunteer to do the normal vet work as long as it wasn't some major surgery. We got food donated from different major grocery chains. So it was that type of funding. If you want a canine unit for your department nowadays, I'll just say this. I'm a dog lover. Also. I have a golden retriever, and before that I had a black German shepherd. So, yes, you can get a dog. You can get a K9 program, even if you don't have the funds yourself.

[C]

Right. And. But it takes work. And here's the last thing I'll go on is, you know, politicians are the ones who pass the budgets for police departments, and you had the power at the. At the booth, the voting booth. And if they tell you they're going to defund police or they have a track record of not spending the money and not doing the special units and not paying for their people, do not reelect them, because you're going to get more of the same. And if you want police officers to show up with canine dogs when your Aunt Sally is missing and she's got dementia and whatever it might be, it's going to cost money that doesn't come for free. And politicians are the ones that make that happen. So you have the power of the booth. I'm going to get off on that topic right now. Let's talk about your career, Tom.

[B]

Sure. I agree with you, though.

[C]

How long have you been retired now?

[B]

I agree with you. So I retired. I've been three years now.

[C]

Good for you. And I notice you're all over the interwebs, as they call it. You're doing all kinds of podcast appearance, radio show appearances, television appearances. Are you kind of an in demand kind of guy now that you're free from the shackles of police work?

[B]

Yeah, you know, I do a lot of. I want to speak up for law enforcement and from my Perspective and tell the facts and the truth that there's so much negative out there. And I do do a lot of radio programs in the Chicago area. And I've been a consult now on Fox News, especially the Fox News at Night program, because there's always another side. And as a retired chief, you might know, Jay, that I can speak a little bit clearer. I'm not in fear of a politician threatening my job because I say something they don't like.

[C]

And it wasn't always that way, was it? Especially as a police officer, we couldn't say anything. It was the PIOs and the bosses had to talk.

[B]

Yeah, that's for sure. Well, you were told sometimes just stay out of the mix. Don't get involved in this because it doesn't benefit our community or it doesn't benefit my political overall view. That would be your elected officials that you work under. But I don't have those restraints anymore. So I think that I could really hit on the issues that are important.

[C]

Here's another thing. I gotta give you credit where credit is due. You know, when I was a police officer, I had a different mindset than when I was a sergeant. And when I was a sergeant, a different job description. Different. And I was a little bit different guy. I didn't forget where I came from. But when I had my interactions with the news media, it was as a sergeant's perspective, as a police chief, it's got to be totally different.

[B]

Yeah. You know, when you're a chief, you do have to kind of, you know, you're representing the department and you do kind of have to watch what you say. And I was never that. You know, my. I was fortunate to have a group of elected officials all my career as a police chief who wanted our residents to know the facts, didn't try to push me in one direction or another. As long as I had my facts or the information was correct and there wasn't a lot of anecdotal information. I never got pushback. That's pretty rare in today's world. But I would. My elected officials were very supportive, which made the job much easier.

[C]

And by the way, I have to give you credit again, because you're in the suburbs of Chicago and the whole gotcha culture from the news media and other people, which we'll talk about a little bit later on, was alive and well. And when you make a mistake or they get you wound up, people love to do this to me. They love to get me wound up and watch me go. Well, the only power I have as an individual is to take away the key so you can't wind me up. When certain people know they're going to wind me up, I know they're going to do that and they're going to sit back and say, hey, look at him being, you know what? The only power I have is to make sure I'm not around the people. So the gotcha culture persisted even back then when you're policing, didn't it?

[B]

Yeah, for sure. And the gotcha culture now is video. I mean, no, no police officer wants to be the next YouTube sensation. Right? They don't that. They don't want that. But the got you culture is just to catch you on something or somehow make sure that you, you know, you didn't do your due diligence. So people wait in the weeds for you to make mistakes. Especially in law enforcement.

[C]

Especially in law enforcement. And by the way, if you have a uniform, you work in patrol and you're in a marcar, you are a target. We're speaking with retired Police chief Tom Weitzel, retired from the Riverside Illinois Police Department. Look for Chief Weitzel on X and tick tock. That's Chief Weitzel. W E I T Z E L on X and tick tock. This is law enforcement talk radio show. We're going to talk about living and working in the fishbowl and the pressure comes along with policing. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Don't you hate when they do the bait and switch on you when they tell you, check out a website and it's free to go there and then there's hidden charges. You won't find any of that nonsense at our website, letradio.com it's free, it's always been free and it costs you absolutely nothing. There's no hidden tricks. Letradio.com check it out today. You find episodes of the show is available as a podcast after airing on radio. They're always free, always have been and always will be again. That's l e t radio.com where it's always free.

[A]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.

[B]

We're really doing this, huh?

[A]

Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your VIN or license and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon.

[B]

Bye bye. Truck. Truckee.

[A]

Of course, we kept the favorite.

[C]

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[A]

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[D]

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[C]

Current conversation with Tom Weitzel Tom is retired Chief of Police from Riverside, Illinois Police Department. Look for him on X and TikTok. Look for Chief Weitzel. That's C, H, I E F W E I, T, Z E, L. Chief is one of those things I always have to look at my spell check on. Now, Chief Lieutenant I don't know. Colonel. That's another one that always trips me up. Subpoena lieutenant don't even get me started. But one of the things that in my career, I retired a long time ago. It's been 30 some odd years now. I got hurt, retired young. But I remember when I first started, we had every, every 28 days we changed shifts. Tom. And we'd have midnight shift, we'd have a 412 shift, we'd have a day shift. And I learned early on that the day shift was full of, that was the fishbowl. That's where we had all the people, all the command staff, all the bosses, all the people, you know, who I am, they're out there in force and they were, they seem to be looking for you. Where 4 to 12 after about 6pm, 7pm at night, you didn't see them at all. And midnight, you didn't see them at all, period. But that fishbowl effect was profound in your career. Looking back, how big of a deal was that for you?

[B]

Yeah, that's a huge deal. I mean, day shift when I started, you couldn't get on day shift under the union rules here in Illinois was all seniority. So you were either stuck on afternoons or midnights for probably at least the first 10 to 12 years that you were working. But those officers that were on day shift were Definitely in the fishbowl. They're always being lookin. They always were. You know, my officers were even uncomfortable sometimes going to eat in public places where they pull up in their squad cars, go in, in uniform and sit down and have their assigned lunch. They were constantly either eating in the squad car or bringing it back to the station. And that's, that's because they just didn't want to be in the fishbowl while they had their breakfast. And that was a common occurrence. So I'll just give you an example. I have three adult children and they're all police officers here in the Chicago suburban area. And all of them work midnights. And I think it's a little bit of a combination of they don't have enough time to get on day shift yet. And they've all been on over 10 years. But a lot of officers, Jay, just don't like working the day shifts where there's a lot of bosses on.

[C]

One of the things I noticed, I remember my career was we had a police commissioner that was notorious and this guy was a little bit demented. He wasn't in full of all of his capacity. He didn't have all his mental capacity. And he always wanted to drill you and question you. Who's the chief patrol, who's this, who's that? And if you didn't get it right, he'd say fire that guy. And by the way, you couldn't because we'd already have probation but it was still nerve wracking. And that's one of the effects he'd have from the bosses. And it's not that people love to say this, we're doing things shady. No, we weren't doing things shady. We weren't breaking any laws. But we didn't want someone looking over our back 247 either.

[B]

Yeah, nobody wants a micromanager. Right. There's no employee probably in any profession, let alone police. You know, you want to have a good field training program. You want to, you know, good start at the academy, get out, have people show you the ways of what's really happening in the community that you're policing, how to respond to things. But no employee wants a micromanager. Just following them and grading them on everything that's going on. That creates huge stress in new officers.

[C]

It does. And by the way, there's plenty of other stress that goes along with the job. We're not talking about the traumas and we're not talking about critical incidents. We're talking about the day to day grind of police Work. And one of the things that I didn't have to deal with because we didn't have the technology then was people sticking phones in your faces and videoing you. And we didn't have these so called. And I'm air quoting first amendment auditors. We didn't have all these people. What's your name? Imagine I just came up badge number. I didn't care.

[B]

Yeah. You know that nobody wants that camera in your face. You're correct. And usually it's a phone, but we know we had the first amended auditors when I was still chief and I had to go to roll call. Jane, tell my officers now they're, they're sitting in our parking lot. We saw them out there because our parking lot was public property. Or they, they'd sit in front of our police lobby and they would wait for you to come out and follow you to your squad car and try to, you know, ask you to try to antagonize you for a response. And I had to just go to the officers and say, listen, just walk up. They're going to be there day after day. And they would say, chief, why can't you get rid of them? Why can't we? Can't we arrest them? I go, that's what they want. Okay, so we can't. This is a public facility on the outside. They can sit there and film you, but they are going to try to purposely, you know, get you to respond in a negative manner to what they're doing. So just be professional and walk. And you know, that's hard to do because it happened day after day. This wasn't a one time deal.

[C]

And I'll be honest with you, Tom. I don't know if I, I'm cut out for that anymore. I, I said earlier about the, the wind up Jay like the toy and watch him go. I, I'm still wound up and once I get triggered, it's. There's no going back. And I have not. The older get. You would think I would develop this and I've got a really good at restraint of tongue and pen and it's developing this pause button. However, once I get wound up and ready to go boom, there's no pulling me back.

[B]

Yeah, I know that feeling. And you know, I think as we get older, we certainly want more freedom and our, sometimes our filters can drop from us as we get older and more experienced. But most of my issues were with younger officers, maybe on the job the first five, six, seven years who wanted to strike back because they were yelling some Pretty nasty things. And they would get right in your face, Jay. I mean they would come right up to you and be filming you, asking you questions, just throwing stuff at you. And they wanted the officers to stop in their place and then challenge them and get into some argument or God forbid they would get into a shoving match. So you really had to hammer home that don't give them what they want. They will eventually go away. They will. They're not going to go away tomorrow. They're going to be out there again tomorrow and they're going to be out there the next day. But they eventually go away.

[C]

One of the things that this is a beef of mine that I have. One of the common held myths about police work is man, these cops, they're under trained, they need more training. And I look back at my career and go, we spent about six months in the academy. Every day a roll call. At least twice a week we would have new laws, new law updates and departmental procedures which we'd be talked about once a year we'd have to go for what we called in service training. Four days of classroom, one day at the range, qualify. And I'd say to you, how much more training does someone need? Was that the same situation with you guys?

[B]

Oh yeah, we had office. Well, there is all, first of all there was the mandated training, which was firearms, rifle training, school response training. Then there was, like you said, just the in service training. And now there's mandatory training in Illinois from everything on how to arrest, how to handcuff de escalation. They keep passing legislation that requires more training for the officers without funding, but it also takes those officers out of patrol and you're having to cover shifts. I mean, I don't think my officers were by themselves in a patrol car for close to 10 months. You took three to four months of police academy training, three months of field officer training, and then sometimes we had some remedial training and then you did your own in house training. You're talking about nine or 10 months. You if you were a department that had a single patrol vehicle where a single officer rode in a single vehicle, they weren't on their own for 10 months.

[C]

Yeah, it took a long time. And by the way, we were so pressed for manpower that sometimes when we graduate from academy, we had our field training before that graduation. But if you were lucky, you got to ride with a senior officer for about three days and then you were given a car and you're told, go handle business. And I remember my very first call for service was way down what we call the hole of 622 post in Baltimore. And I never made it because I could never find a place. And we didn't have gps. We didn't have all the modern tools. We had a map they were given and a battery and said, go out there and we'll leave the guy before you. We're talking with Chief Tom Weitzel. He's retired police Chief from Riverside, Illinois. Look for him on X and TikTok. Look for Chief Weitzel.com we return. We're going to talk about the fishbowl effect, the stress of being command staff, and lessons he's learned in his journey. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. One of the questions I get all the time is how can I show my support for law enforcement? We're all busy. We've got busy lives. But there's something oh so simple you can do with our Facebook page. Search for law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page and when you see a post you agree with, that resonates with you, share it. Especially episodes of the podcast. To do all that, just search for us on Facebook, look for law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to click like.

[A]

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Conversation with Chief Chief Tom Weitzel, retired police chief from Riverside, Illinois. He is in the Chicago suburbs and look for him on X and tick tock. Look for Chief Weitzel.com. you can also find him all over the news, radio, television, you name it. As Chief Weitzel, Tom, I appreciate you so much coming to the show, to having this conversation. And in a way we say free at last. Free at last. I can, the shackles are gone. I can talk. You were saying many times that you didn't have that problem with you. And a lot of police chiefs across the United States I believe do.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with you. They do for sure. In fact, in my retirement, I've had some of my colleagues call me and say that, you know, hey Tom, you're right on or this is fantastic. I wish I could say this, I wish I could even back you up, but the political climate doesn't allow me to now that's still happening. So yeah, I was fortunate. There's no doubt. And I knew I was fortunate to have a group of elected officials. And you know what, Jay, you can tell because it's unusual for a police chief to be in his position as chief for 13 years.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I went through, for, I went through a lot of different politicians, but they all were, I wouldn't call them like pro police, but what they were was if you do your job correctly and you're right, we'll back you. And that's a rarity.

[C]

Well, it's a rare and that's what we wanted as police. We wanted someone to do their job. And you, you were allowed to be human. You're allowed to make mistakes. But what you weren't allowed to do was be corrupt and be vicious or violent. That was never tolerated. And that's one of my chief complaints is I hear this all the time, Tom. I'm sure you hear too, the thin blue wall of silence or this thing of, you know, if there's one bad cop surrounded by 100 so called good cops that don't tell them a bad cop, they're all bad cops. And I Reply, where do you think they find out from? You think that, that they're going to all of a sudden risk everything and keep a secret? Poor behavior. No.

[B]

Right. I never believed in that blue wall. I think officers, they want to work side by side with honorable officers, honorable people that represent our profession in a very professional manner. To think that they want to hide abuses or God forbid, corruption is false. I never ran across that. They don't. Officers, you know, good police officers hate bad and corrupt police officers. That's what the public needs to know. It's not this narrative that we're hiding officers that shouldn't be on the job. That is just not correct.

[C]

The other thing too, before we get into court decisions and all that was the other misconception, is that a police department can't investigate itself. And I tell people I've arrested police, I've had police fired, you name it, I didn't like it at the time. I still don't like it. It's not my proudest moment, but we did. And if you had an officer shoot, shoot someone they shouldn't have, they wound up either being fired and, or facing criminal charges. That was the end of story.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with you totally. You know, if you set your internal affairs up, whatever you title that, that, that part of your department, you set it up correctly and have the right structure in it, you can definitely investigate your own. In fact, sometimes investigating your own is a good thing because you know how operations happen, you know how the procedures are supposed to go, you know when mistakes have. But you know, Internal affairs, you're looking for more than mistakes. You're looking for people that are officers that are doing things wrong purposely, or maybe they are corrupt. But, and I would say that officers that find another officer as corrupt, they want to get them off the job or charged more than the general public does.

[C]

You're preaching to the choir. That's the reality of what it was like for me. And I retired a long time ago. One of the things that we, and we did have to deal with this, but I'm really getting inundated with this on social media. On our Facebook page, particular look for law enforcement talk rated show is for example, they will call police tyrants. That's a word that's in demand and used quite a bit other ones, bootlickers. And they're saying, well, I can justify that because they violate the fourth Amendment all the time against unreasonable search and seizure. And I go, hey, wait a second. We got this thing called the Supreme Court and they're the ones who make the rules, like the Carol Doctrine, mobility, all these other ones, search, incident, arrest, all those other things. And you're saying we should ignore. That's basically what you're saying.

[B]

Yeah. You know, we have a lot of these Supreme Court decisions are effective for the police. I mean, one, I just spoke on an issue recently where they, one of somebody in the audience stood up and said that Chicago area is famous for pretextual traffic stops. And what was my comment on that? And my comment is, first of all, the United States Supreme Court said pretextual traffic stops are totally legal.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That was only ruled by the United States Supreme Court. Supreme Court. And pretextual traffic stop, I told them, doesn't mean that they made that up. It means that you stop somebody, for example, for blowing a stop sign and then you find contraband in the car or you find a wanted fugitive. That's not pretextual, that's, that's good police work. And the guy who asked me the question, he goes, you consider that good police work?

[C]

Yes, I do.

[B]

And I said, I do.

[C]

Yeah, I agree with you. And look, here's one thing, by the way, Timothy McVeigh, look him up. He bombed the Edward R. I think Murrow building in Oklahoma City and he was stopped on a routine traffic stop by, by a sheriff's deputy, I believe it was. And that's how they got him. And people act like, oh, this is so sort of subterfuge that police are lying and they're just used. Another thing I get all the time, they just stopped him because he was blocking the car. I'm going, stop and take a look. Look, you can't tell the race of people. They got tinted windows. Not just they, but everybody here in South Florida has those. And the other one is the high backed backrest or headrest. You can't tell how many people are in the car.

[B]

Without a doubt, that is spot on. And I'm telling you that I just saw a survey that came out from one of the Chiefs association that said over a five year study that over 85% of the calls that police respond to in America policing are called in by citizens and only 15% of the calls that they handle are self initiated. So the theory for that the police are racist went out the window according to this survey I read, because we're responding to what the residents are reporting to us.

[C]

Right.

[B]

A small portion of it is self initiated. So to say that, oh, you knew that individual was black or you knew that individual was Hispanic and you were targeting this ridiculous. We're responding to what citizens are filing a complaint on.

[C]

The other thing, and I hate to beat this to death is I can't help. We don't judge people based off their race. We judge people based off their actions and we respond to that as police. And I'm an older white guy and I worked in areas of Baltimore where I was. I stuck out like a sore thumb but people accepted me for who I was in the job I did. They didn't look at me as being some white guy. And nowadays if it seems that the media in particular and a lot of politicians want to draw a conclusion based off the officer's race and here's what I'll close on this and this kind of goes to what you said. We look at the headlines. There's a saying in Baltimore, if it bleeds, it leads. So one of the things that really gets my goat, Tom, is that the headlines or reads with the cops actions and they don't talk about the 15 or 50 other decisions that the person made beforehand. For example, I'll give you an example. 1. Police shoot a guy for DUI. Well this guy had been arrested multiple times with DUI. He knows he had a drinking problem. People tell him to drink. He still chose to drink. He still chose to drive. Once he decided driving police activator, blue lights, he decided to flee. Then he decided to fight. Then he decided oh, but no, all they want to focus on is that the officer shot. And how prevalent was that in your career?

[B]

That was almost an everyday occurrence. There would always be, there's always more to that short snippet that you'd see on television for the video. But there was always different instances or different events that led up to the police having that encounter. It was rarely that the officer would just stop you in the middle of the sidewalk and want to check you out, so to speak. Always incidents that leads up to that stop, whatever that stop, whether it's a car stop or a pedestrian stop.

[C]

We're talking with Tom Weitzel, retired police Chief for Riverside Illinois. Look for him online. X and TikTok is where he likes to hang out the most. Look for Chief weitzel.com this is law enforcement talk radio show. We'll turn the conversation just a few moments. We'll be right back. If you do any business on social media, creating content is one thing. The trick is how do you turn those people that comment on your social media into consumers. It's a great tool and you can get more information at l e t pops.com that's l e t p o p s.com Best of all, you can get started for free. Let pops.com check it out. Today.

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Hey, I'm Dr. Z and I'm a neurosurgeon. So that means long hours, early rounds, late nights, and everything in between. Between and through it all. I wear figs because they're built for what I do through the chaos, through the hours, and through whatever the day throws at me. They do their job so I can do mine. They're comfortable when it counts and functional when I need them the most. So where do you wear your figs on shift? On call? On the couch in the break room, listening to this podcast. Wherever it is, they fit right in. And now listeners of this podcast can get 15% off their first order. Just head to wherefigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wherefigs.com code FIGSRX.

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This is the story of the one as a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and flu season, germs spread fast. It's why he partners with Grainger to stay fully stocked on the products and supplies he needs, from tissues to disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Also, that he can help students, staff and teachers stay healthy and focused. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[C]

This is law enforcement talk radio show Return A Conversation with Tom Weitzel, retired police chief from Riverside, Illinois, outside of Chicago. Look for him online X and Tick Tock is where he hangs the most. Chief weitzel.com you also find him on television news radio programs, podcasts as well. Tom Weitzel, it's a pleasure to have you here on the show and thank you for your service. I forgot to say that earlier, and if we're telling your story in the show, one of the things that is different between you and me is my my daughters are now in their mid-30s and neither of Them are policing. But you said earlier conversation that three of your children are in police departments in the Chicago suburbs. How do you deal with that, knowing where you came from and the stress that comes along with that?

[B]

Well, you know, Jay, I think policing is the most honorable profession ever. And I still do, even after the George Floyd incident, because that really, you know, impacted our profession. No doubt about that. Nobody can deny that. But I tell my kids that they have to love their job and they have to love the department they're working at. And this might be surprising to some that are listening. But if your department is not treating you well, you're not being respected, you're not maybe having career goals and advancement opportunities and not just promotions, it could be special assignments, then you need to go somewhere where your police leadership and your political leadership is going to back you or at least support you in your career path. Because a lot of officers get disillusioned and have stress and what I would call internal trauma because there's no possibility of advancement or that they're not, not being backed by their administration for stuff that they clearly should be. So I tell that to my kids. Be happy. That's important. Don't be afraid to leave the department. You know, Illinois passed a law now where you can bring your pension from department to department. So it's a lot easier than it used to be.

[C]

Right. Back in the day, it was almost impossible. Where I police, you couldn't do that. And other states have become more progressive. And as a police chief, I'm sure you had to have the conversation with, with your staff members about how to conduct yourself in a professional manner and not let, I hate to put it this way, not let the cheese eaters get to you.

[B]

Yeah. Me, myself and my staff, my deputy chiefs, commanders, lieutenants, I always told them that we're not, we're not office, okay? We're not. We don't sit in the office. My commanders will be out with the officers. What will be, you know, if detectives need you for support, you will be out there. If we have to respond back, we will respond back. I had a policy that anytime an officer was injured in the line of duty, I don't care if they broke a wrist. It didn't have to be shot in the line of duty or stabbed. If you were injured in the line of duty, command personnel would show up at the station. If it was 2 o' clock in the morning, if we would show up at the hospital to support you and your family. But we never, never did not support our personnel And I delivered that message to my staff, and I did the same. That you will have our support, unwavering support as police officers in this village, that I work that.

[C]

And that goes a long ways. And even still today, what we jokingly say, that there's an old saying in Baltimore said they would say that the boss would say, if you're right, we'll back you 100%. Which they didn't, even when you're right. But we're saying the response was, when I'm 100% right, I don't need your help. Even though we do now, and I hate to say it, they do nowadays.

[B]

Yeah, that's a really good tip. What you just said is really good. Our officers, the dirt, deserve our support. Even when they make minor mistakes and stuff. That's probably a more important time that they need our support to have maybe retraining or counseling what to do in the right situation next time. I mean, positive reinforcement is a lot better than disciplining somebody for some minor infraction. So I would make the case that we need to be there always for them. And some of the best times, Jay, is when they do make decisions, mistakes that were there to show them not to make those in the, you know, in the future.

[C]

The most important lessons I had, and we're a similar age group, is I was trained by and broken in by combat, Korea. I mean, sorry, Vietnam War combat veterans who are Baltimore police. And they did not hold back any punches when you made a mistake. When the call was over, they let you know, and they said, you can try this. And it took a while for you earn their trust. And we had a few career and war veterans or command staff, and they were the same way. And the first thing we were taught, Tom, was you always treat people respect until they change the tone of the conversation, and then you don't back down.

[B]

Yeah, that's very true. My first field training officer in the early 1980s told me, Tom, there's two things I want you to do when you ride with me. You always go out of your way for children. Any case involving kids and any case involving seniors. He goes, we will always go to the mat for them and everything in between. We'll still do our jobs. But I never forget that. It was like on the second day, I was riding with that field training officer.

[C]

Gotta ask you this question, Tom. And I'm sure the answer is yes. Did you get that drill? When you're riding with your ftl, and all of a sudden you yell out, where are we?

[B]

Yeah, Especially where I worked, because it was this community that was designed by this famed landscape architect named Fredric Law Olmsted. And the streets were all purposely built curved, no straight grid patterns. And he would yell that out at 2 o' clock in the morning. And then he'd also say, tom. He'd give me an address and say, tom, find it.

[C]

That's what they would do there. There's the reason why, for those who don't know was the ftos, the field training officers, would yell out, where are we? And they'd stop in the middle of the street and they, they'd look at you, go. Because if I was in a shooting or if I got hurt, you couldn't help me. If we didn't know where we were, you couldn't tell the dispatch where we were. So they would make you run out to the last street sign you pass and so you know the intersection and then come back and tell them what it was.

[B]

That's exactly right.

[C]

And I do remember a story. I don't know how true this was. We had a helicopter unit called Foxtrot in Baltimore. And what they did, they would train the new observers and they had a lot of Korean, a lot of Vietnam combat veterans that were flying the helicopters. And one thing is, okay, now follow this car and let me know where it goes. And the car was being driven by an off duty police that was in on the deal. And the car would be going to their house where their spouse was and his spouse would greet him and they both turn around and wave at them. And it was a little trick they played on the observers in training. You've been retired now from police work. What is it that drives you to still be. And I'm not saying it's a negative to be a mouthpiece for the realities.

[B]

Of law enforcement, because I saw so many negative and really just outright lies being told about the profession as a whole. And then in my area in the Chicago metropolitan, that nobody pushed back on, and I was like, why are they not? I mean, they're just blatant lies about police and policing itself that I wanted to stand up and say, here, here's the reality, here's the truth, and get both sides. Because there was a lot of media in the Chicago area that wasn't seeking out like a police response or a comment for some story they'd ran that was totally fictitious, or they took somebody's position, which I consider to be an activist position, and didn't, didn't even seek a police response. And I wanted to Make a difference in that and put out what I believe to be factual information. And I would tell them, fact check me. Go ahead, look it up. I don't, you know, if you don't believe me, fact check what I'm telling you.

[C]

One of the things, I was in an interview on a different podcast and I said, and I don't exactly remember what the conversation is about, I said, many police that are killed in the United States are killed with their own guns. And one of the most dangerous things you can do in policing is get into a fight for your control of your weapon. And a guy was like, I never knew that. Because they don't tell you in the media, they'll say, you know what it's about. Tom was like, when does an unarmed man become an armed man? And in my situation, the one that retired me is when they went for my pistol.

[B]

Right? That's very true. You know, retention of your firearm, your sidearm is a. Is a skill. Let's face it. We both know that it's a skill. And easily on a fight with an offender or resisting arrest, they can easily reach for your handgun, your taser in some cases nowadays. But what's more important is your handgun. And if you don't know how to properly retain your weapon, you're in big trouble.

[C]

And by the way, this goes back to our prior conversation for the vest. We had holsters that were inferior. Year when I first started the job, we get out in the. Our revolver would still be on the seat of the car. That's how bad our horses were. And it got to a point, remember back in the day, the bianchi braid front, that was a big thing. And in order, you had to have the right position to get the gun out. So. But what I'm getting is this, Tom, and they want to talk about your ex. And TikTok is that if people don't tell the reality of the job, people don't know because the news media is not doing that. Is that why you're all all over X and tick tock?

[B]

Yeah, that's that. That is. You're spot on with that. Again, they're not, they're not telling the realities of police work. They're taking somebody's view. Or many cases, I get the reporter or the news person calls me and says, well, we were fed this video, citizen sentence, this video, and this is what we ran with. And I'm like, this is wrong. This is, this is not correct. Like they would do a story on. This is police procedure. And I go this, this isn't how police officers conduct a traffic stop. This, this is a blatant lie. And I said I would tell them, did you do any of your own due diligence and check this out. And they're like, well, you know, some. We got it from one of the residents. So I wanted to, you know, address those situations. That, and I'll say this again, it's just blatant lies. It's not true.

[C]

We're wrapping up. And Tom, thanks so much for being guest on Law Enforcement Talk Ratio. Thanks for your service.

[B]

Both very much appreciate thank you so much for having me.

[C]

Jay if you want to be a guest on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show, simply contact us. It couldn't be easier. You can send us a message on Facebook, look for and like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show page or email jayetradio.com that's J A Y etradio.com I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and Podcast. Until then then, this is John J. Wiley. See ya.

[D]

Hey, I'm Dr. Z and I'm a neurosurgeon. So that means long hours, early rounds, late nights, and everything in between. And through it all, I wear figs because they're built for what I do. Through the chaos, through the hours, and through whatever the day throws at me. They do their job so I can do mine. They're comfortable when it counts and functional when I need them the most.

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