Podcast Summary: The Truth About Being a Cop—Lessons From a Reserve Deputy

Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories
Host: John “Jay” Wiley | Guest: Len Herstein
Date: October 12, 2025

Brief Overview

This episode explores the unique journey of Len Herstein, a successful businessman and marketing expert, who became a reserve sheriff’s deputy in his mid-40s—working for free in law enforcement. Host John “Jay” Wiley and Len delve into misconceptions about policing, the realities of trauma, the profound life lessons learned behind the badge, and how insights from policing can translate into business, personal growth, and vigilance against complacency.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Len’s Unconventional Path to Law Enforcement

• Business to Badge: Len started his law enforcement career at 45 after a long and successful career in marketing, consulting, and running corporate conferences. He now serves as a volunteer reserve deputy sheriff in Douglas County, Colorado.
  • "For the last 18, 19 years, I've been putting on marketing conferences. I went into [law enforcement] thinking it was going to be a completely different part of my life." — Len (04:11)
• Late Career Shifts: Joining law enforcement later in life brought different perspectives and respect from citizens and colleagues, sometimes due to his appearance rather than tenure.
  • "Citizens always look to me because of my bald head and white beard…they think I'm the most experienced guy there." — Len (02:47)
• Volunteer Motivation: Len’s drive was rooted in a search for meaningful impact, which business had not fulfilled.
  • "It's something that adds more than it detracts from my life…for me, it fills a hole that I was looking for." — Len (11:37)

2. What Cop Work Really Looks Like

• Beyond Crime Fighting: Most police calls aren’t about crime, but about quality of life, problem solving, and even the occasional rogue snake or bat.
  • "The vast majority of our calls were not about criminal behavior. They're about quality of life issues." — Jay (05:49)
• Customer Service Role: Law enforcement, especially sheriff’s departments, often function as public servants first.
  • "We're in the business of customer service…making sure our constituents are happy." — Len (04:57)

3. Preconceptions vs. Reality

• Misunderstood Profession: Despite a respectful opinion of law enforcement before joining, Len realized how much the public—and even he himself—misunderstood the job’s complexity and risks.
  • "There’s a lot of things that I missed…had misperceptions about coming in…there were definitely things that my eyes were open to." — Len (07:25)
• Judgment from Both Sides: Police face skepticism from civilians and sometimes confusion from other cops (especially about volunteers).
  • "People outside the profession don't get it. People inside the profession don't get it more, you know, they're like, how are you doing this for free? That's crazy." — Len (10:58)

4. Critical Incident & Decision-Making Under Pressure

• The Toy Gun Incident (14:01):
  • Len recalls a call about a suspected drunk driver with a child. The case turned tense when the woman, after appearing non-impaired, suddenly pulled what looked like a real revolver and pointed it at her child—only for it to turn out to be a realistic toy.
  • Split-second decision-making, training, and restraint prevented tragedy.
    • "If you're not in the right mind…if you perceive the information incorrectly, things can go really, really wrong, really quickly." — Len (14:40)
  • "She was pretty close to getting to that degree of turn where things were going to get worse for everybody." — Len (17:36)
• Cops and Split-Second Calls: Both Jay and Len emphasize how sometimes officers can't articulate why they held their fire or acted a certain way in the moment. Processing comes later.
  • "Quite often, I could not explain why I did or didn't do something at the time. Later on, you’re able to piece it together." — Jay (18:14)

5. Training, Experience, and Misconceptions

• Training Never Stops: Len was surprised by the volume and depth of ongoing training—far surpassing what most civilians (and even new officers) expect.
  • "Nothing stops with the academy. We have our academy and then we've got hundreds and hundreds of hours [of training]." — Len (24:15)
• Confidence as a Product of Repetition: Competence and calm reactions under extreme stress are built on relentless real-world practice and “scenario planning” (the OODA loop: Observe, Orient, Decide, Act).
  • "We fall to our highest level of training." — Len (22:04)
• Hollywood & Media vs. Reality: Both speakers vent about inaccurate and harmful portrayals of policing on TV.
  • "Hollywood's to blame for a lot of things…I can't tell you how much angst it causes me every time I see someone on a TV show with their finger on the trigger." — Len (25:43)

6. Trauma, Loss, and Resilience

• Witnessing Tragedy: Len describes three incidents—two resulting in death and one severe injury (Officer Dan Brite’s paralysis). He focuses on the roadside death of Colorado State Trooper Cody Donahue, whom he was first to reach after a fatal accident on the highway.
  • “Went right to the next exit, turned around, sped back…Trooper Donahue had been working the crash and had been struck by a semi that did not move over. …I left that scene and went back and had a good cry…sometimes that’s what you've got to do.” — Len (34:34)
• Compartmentalization: Len credits his ability to “compartmentalize” and channel grief productively as vital for survival and growth in the job.

7. Translating Law Enforcement Lessons into Life and Business

• Vigilance Against Complacency:
  • Len's book, Be Vigilant: Strategies to Stop Complacency, Improve Performance and Safeguard Success, draws parallels between police survival habits and success in business or personal life. Principles like debriefing, continual scenario planning, and never relying on past successes translate across domains.
    • “In our world, complacency has become like this filler, throwaway term…nobody ever talks about what it is, what it means, and more importantly, what do you do about it?” — Len (39:08)
    • “Complacency is born from success. And 99% of the time we are successful in this business and things go right and we can do a thousand [things, but when they go wrong, it’s catastrophic]." — Len (40:36)

8. Police Culture: Integrity and Diversity

• Police Aren’t Monolithic: Officers come from all walks of life and value integrity above all else. Myths of blind loyalty or cover-up are false in most departments, as both confirm.
  • “Nobody hates a bad cop more than a good cop.” — Len (31:57)
  • “The one thing that you have to have in this profession is integrity. If you lose that integrity, you're done.” — Len (32:35)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Police Motivation:
  “You know, never saved a life doing marketing. Right? And so, for me, it fills a hole that I was looking for, and I'm happy and proud to do it.”
  — Len (11:37)

• On Decision-Making:
  “These are split second decisions…if you’re not in the right mind, if you perceive the information incorrectly, things can go really, really wrong really quickly.”
  — Len (14:40)

• On Complacency:
  “Complacency is born from success. And 99% of the time we are successful in this business…”
  — Len (40:36)

• On Integrity:
  “Nobody hates a bad cop more than a good cop.”
  — Len (31:57)

• On Trauma:
  “You have to grieve and then use that grief for something bigger.”
  — Len (34:34)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Reserve Deputy Introduction / Background: 02:39–04:11
• Mindset Shift—Business to Law Enforcement: 07:25–08:22
• The ‘Toy Gun’ Incident: 14:01–17:36
• Training Insights & Media Myths: 22:04–26:32
• Discussion on Police Culture, Integrity: 31:35–32:56
• Coping with Trauma & Roadside Tragedy: 34:29–38:03
• Be Vigilant – Lessons Applied to Life & Business: 38:51–41:08

Resources & Further Information

• Len’s Book and Contact: lenherstein.com
• Host’s Info: jay@letradio.com | letradio.com
• Show Pages: Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter (search “Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show”)

Tone: Honest, frank, at times humorous, and deeply human—a blend of police camaraderie, trauma survivor empathy, and practical advice for all listeners.