← Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories
Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories
US Navy SEAL’s Alcoholism and Recovery
00:40:15
US Navy SEAL’s Alcoholism and Recovery: Overcoming Moral Injury and Finding Life After the Teams in Virginia. Dr. Tony Dice’s life reads like a movie script, except the hero’s greatest battle wasn’t on a battlefield, but within himself. A veteran U.S. Navy SEAL, firefighter, and paramedic, Dice once lived by the warrior’s code: strength, resilience, and mission above all. But beneath that armor, the wounds, both seen and unseen, began to surface.
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- [00:00]
A
This is the story of the 1. As head of maintenance at a concert hall, he knows the show must always go on. That's why he works behind the scenes, ensuring every light is working, the H Vac is humming, and his facility shines with Grainger's supplies and solutions for every challenge he faces. Plus 24. 7 customer support. His venue never misses a beat. Call quickgranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
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B
He was United States Navy seal, a firefighter, a paramedic, a professional military group counselor. He blew up his life with alcohol and drugs due to trauma. He got clean, went back to school, became a doctor, and now he counsels other military veterans and first responders on how to change their lives. Here to tell a story on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. Welcome to the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. In the Law Enforcement Enforcement Talk Radio show, we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, their realities of investigating crimes, plus those have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crime share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website, letradio.com and also like us on Facebook, search for the law enforcement Talk radio show. Of all the radio stations in the United States, there are no other shows like the law enforcement talk radio show. And on Facebook there's only one official page. Do a search on Facebook for the law enforcement talk radio show and be sure to like the law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page. Joining us from the North Virginia area, we have Dr. Tony Dice on the Law Enforcement Talk radio show. Dr. Dice was a U.S. navy SEAL. He was a firefighter, a paramedic, He's a professional military group counselor and words that a lot of people describe. He blew up his life with alcohol and drugs due to trauma and he now counsels and works with military other first responders so they can get their lives together. Best place to find him is online@bishopdice defense.com that's bishopdice defense.com Dr. Tony Dice, thanks for being a guest on the show and for your service. Both very much appreciated.
- [02:20]
C
It's an honor. Jay, thank you so much for having me, man.
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B
This is absolutely, it's pretty cool, number one and here we did talk a little bit. So I grew up in the Norfolk, Virginia area. My dad was career Navy guy. When he retired, we moved to Southern Maryland. But my first, one of my first jobs, my first job as a young adult was being a bouncer at a Go Go bar. And back then you had to have bikinis on. It was a crazy, crazy environment. Then it was a cab driver. I remember being a cab driver and waiting for rides of. What's the Navy base where all those Navy seals are and. And right where the North Virginia beach line is, Little Creek. I was out there and practicing with my nade stick. It was crazy, crazy time.
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C
Yeah, that was that times of the brass bell down there. Yeah, very common. I remember the pace as well.
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B
And I. I saw from one of bishopdicefense.com and check it out. Dr. Tony Dice went back to school. He went to Old Dominion University. And I was a student at Old Old Dominion University in the late 70s. But I majored in drinking, had a minor in sociology. I got DNF. A minor and a 4.0, my major. I was out in no time.
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C
There you go.
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B
It was a different time. And by the way, I'm glad that we get to talk, because I look at your story briefly, and you almost didn't make it.
- [03:45]
C
That's right. There are several points where I, through no help of my own, just about, you know, I made it way harder than it should have been. I mean, definitely. I definitely took the hard road. And on paper, I looked like I was hitting all the marks. Stellar performer, hard charger. But underneath the hood, man, things are way out of whacks. There was a lot going on before we get into.
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B
Was the Navy SEAL first or the firefighter? Paramedic first.
- [04:14]
C
Yeah. It started off as firefighter. Those guys were awesome guys. I love the crew. I love the action. But it seemed like we were often waiting for, like, a paramedic to show up. And then those guys were the rock stars. And I loved doing that job. But then I wanted to be law enforcement because those guys were the rock stars, you know, carry guns, kicking indoors, saving the day. And before I was able to make that jump, my chief said, hey, what are you doing? Quit messing around. Top of the food chains, Navy Seal. What are you doing? So I said, boom. I went for it.
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B
And how old of a guy were you when you made this change?
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C
I was actually going in the Navy and classing up for buds. I was pushing 24 years old, so I was the old guy in that.
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B
You're the grandpa?
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C
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was definitely, you know, I. I grew up, up in the woods in Northern California. And so coming to the city was like, big lights, big city. And so I'm coming to there. Let me tell you man, class enough for buds was the best way I could describe it. Picture 180 hard chargers, like big fish from own little ponds. All of them can look like Hollywood shades, you know, ripped up and they're all swear they're gonna die before they quit. And you're looking around going, holy, what's about to happen? That's gonna make, you know, 80 to 90% of these guys quit in the next couple of weeks. It was, gosh, it was definitely a feeling of apprehension because these guys were, some of them didn't go to the Olympics that year because they wanted to be a Navy seal. You know, they were, they were that the elite of the elite showing up here. So that, that alone, some guys were cracking just from that kind of pressure. But it was a lot of pressure. It did help me mature, wise being 24, you know, I had a couple more years maturity so I could handle. When the instructors rang out on me, I knew it was a game I to play. So that did help.
- [06:15]
B
Well, the funny thing was, and I say this funny, it's ironic, but we watched some of the buds training on television and I know they don't portray everything, but I looked at my wife and I said, you know, when I was in the best shape of my life, there's no way I could do what they went through. I could. I'd be one of the first guys ringing a bell. I'm out of here. I'm done.
- [06:36]
C
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, well, everyone has a niche, you know, and I think what they didn't capture, and I've watched the documentaries too, is that, you know, like, just let me, I'll tell you, just like, I'll describe a little bit of hell week. You're going in, you know, you're getting wet and sandy. You're carrying your boat forever on your head. You're doing surf passes, you're doing log pt, you're doing the O course over and again. You're running to chow, you're running back from chow, you're hitting the grinder, you're gonna, you know, taking the boats back out again. You're running all the way down to the Hotel Dell and all the way back again. Soft sand runs, you're, you know, doing log PT fore. And then you're, you're going to go ahead and at the little games the instructors are going to play with you by running all over the place with this heavy boat on your head. And that's Monday morning. You know, that is like we've only gone through half of one Day. And that's what they kind of didn't capture is that this is six months long of them. Just with you see this part, it's like time slows down, that you can feel every heartbeat and they don't capture that this drags. You know, it is a long, tedious evolution and that just people really begin to come to grips with. I don't want it that bad.
- [07:58]
B
The other thing was, and I grew up as a kid and by the way, I was a strawberry blonde haired kid with freckles and I got sunburned at the beach wearing two T shirts. But we go to Virginia beach as a kid. The first time it opened, it started getting warm and the water's cold. I stick my foot in the water and it cramp immediately. I've watched these guys doing BUDS training and they're doing cold water training and I'm like, how can they do that? The mindset has got to be crazy.
- [08:24]
C
It is. You got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable and just, you know, just when you're shivering, when you're really jackhammering, you keep telling yourself, this is a good thing, this is a good thing. That means my body's still working. You know, you're finding little mind games trying to say, look for like, all right, this is a good sign. It's bad when I stop shivering. That's when it's bad. And so those little bits of logic you're trying to hold onto, but yes, that cold water, to this day, there's an evolution in die phase or whenever you worked at the pool, they have these decon showers where the water is way colder than the ocean water and they spray at you from all angles and you just have to put your arms out and be exposed to it. And there's this high pitched like sound when they first turn on where the air comes through the pipes before the water starts spraying out that to this day sends chills down my spine. And I, I mean I have like a PTSD response to that sound because it brings me right back that the decon before you get in the pool, that was miserable. But those, those, yeah, It's a long six month trauma.
- [09:34]
B
We're talking with Dr. Tony Dice. He served as a US Navy Seal, firefighter, paramedic, professional military group counselor. He blew up his life with alcohol and drugs from trauma. We're gonna talk about that in a few moments. He got his act together and now he helps other first responders in military get clean and more. If you want to be a guest on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show. Simply contact us. It couldn't be easier. You can send us a message on Facebook, look for and like the law enforcement talk radio show page or email j@radio.com that's j a y e t radio.com this is law Enforcement Talk Radio show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Be sure to check out our website letradio.com that's letradio.com there you'll find episodes of the show available as a podcast after airing on radio and they're always free. There's 700 plus episodes on there right now. There's blogs. Get information about our sponsors, all that and much more@letradio.com again the website is L E T radio.com return conversation with Dr. Tony Dice on the law enforcement Talk radio show. Khande is from Norfolk, Virginia beach area. He served as a United States Navy seal, firefighter, paramedic, military group counselor. He lived his life with alcohol and drugs from trauma. And he says that he got sober about 15 years ago, went back to school. Now that's what he does. He helps people, he helps military, he helps veterans, he helps first responders build the life they want. Clean and sober. Before we go into your story, doctor, when we look back sometimes and not going to great details of me, I look back and say there was the guy before 1992. That's when I got sober. And there's a guy after. And sometimes it seemed like two totally different guys.
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C
Absolutely true.
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B
Do you ever look back and go, who was that guy before? I know that's part of why I'm where I am and why I do what I do. And I know that's part of me, but sometimes it feels like it's a different character altogether.
- [11:53]
C
Oh yeah. And let me just tell you about the guy before real quick. You know, when I got into the Navy and you know, after getting through buds, I instantly was drawn to the relationship the Navy had with alcohol. I mean, it was like our emotional currency. If, you know you and I had a problem, we'd get a drink together and fix it. You know, if I got, I got indoctrinated into a new platoon, alcohol was involved. You know, if I get a raise or an increase in rank, alcohol is involved. If I got a decrease. If something happened negatively, alcohol is involved. If you were having a hard day, all I had to do is reach my pocket with my flask and I would be there to help you get through it. I mean, it was the end. It was our Swiss Army Knife of emotional well being. You know, it was how we communicated, showed our love and compassion. It was a glue that held us together. I loved that. I mean it was. It made everything in my life very easy. It made everything. It was. I loved the way the Navy embraced alcohol and all its traditions, especially at the platoon level. Our guys get hit it off. We had a good platoon. We sinked and you know, when we deployed overseas that, that belief followed us. We enjoyed drinking in every continent we visited. It was amazing. I think the problems I was having with drinking and the military was this was all taking place pre 9 11. You know, we were not at war. The gold comics box had not been opened. It was, it was basically a very boring time to be in the SEAL teams. You know, you give high performers like that, no real mission. We're going to find some fun to get into. And I was, you know, I was up for getting into mischief overseas. You know, stealing the flag at the top of the, you know, sneaking out at night. Just getting into the mischief was what I did when we out were partaking, you know. And so as my reenlistment was coming up I could see the writing on the wall that you know I was headed towards either an alcohol related incident. I was heading towards, you know, I was at that time dabbling with cocaine and ecstas partying a lot. I was heading towards something happening that would hurt my me professionally, you know. And up until this point I've had a whole all good marks, you know, I'm doing well hard charger but I, I could sense that this was not going somewhere good. So when reenlistment came up, I punched out. And there was a difference in my drinking. Now drinking really took off. I didn't have like the, the military guidelines of hey, you know, you stop drinking now so you can show up. So at this time. And they had, there was a rhythm to your alcohol use. And when you took that cage off this animal, there was no holds barred. I could drink whatever I wanted. I could use whatever I wanted. And I kind of, you know, went off the deep end for a little bit when I got out of the military like so many of us do. 911 kicks off and all of a sudden I'm. There's this new emotion I'm exposed to. You know, I was angry. What was. What was going on with our company. I wanted to do something, I wanted to, to get involved. But I was also drinking heavily, using a lot of coke, you know, just basically not really fit for going back into the military. But there's this whole other world of contracting, and I jumped on board with that. So now I became a contractor. This is the first time where I wasn't, you know, in active service for my neighborhood, my community, my country. You know, I've been a paramedic, firefighter, Navy Seal, but now I'm deployed, chasing the dollar. And there a lack of honor to that. And I could feel that. I was very aware that when I was overseas in country, I was there, not on behalf of my country. You know, it felt darker. I was making a lot more money, allowed to party more when I came back, because I wasn't. You weren't having drug tests. It was. It was a darker time for me. And so there is this, I want to say, this different person emerging out of that, you know, someone who's following a darker path and that let us do things that are less than honorable.
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B
Yeah.
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C
And, yeah.
- [16:20]
B
So I look at this way, that is, Pardon the call, anybody, first name. But, you know, I got the point where I became ashamed of who I was. Not. It's one thing to be ashamed about what you do. That's one thing. But being ashamed of who I was was totally different. Did you encounter that?
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C
I certainly did. I mean, it was like, you know, I was checking the boxes. On the surface, you know, I appeared like I had myself squared away. I was still maintaining a good physique. You know, I had money in my pocket. I was presenting myself well. But on the inside, I know that I've changed. I know that I'm drinking way more than I'm letting on. I know that I'm using other substances way more than I'm letting on. And so those secrets begin to build up. And, you know, when we're deployed and overseas, you got more freedoms over there. There's things that we do that are less than honorable, you know, And I want to share about something I did before. This is. Let me fast forward, jump ahead real quick. You know, today I'm a therapist. I work with law enforcement, first responders, firefighters, you know, all the populations who are dealing with stuff through substance abuse. And they're having a lot of issues, and a lot of things are coming to the surface that they haven't dealt with in the past. And so this is something that I had to deal with in the past that came to the surface much later and almost took me out. And so, you know, at this time in my career, I'm deployed over in Afghanistan. And, you know, we're over there, we're protecting the President of Afghanistan. I was attached to the. The cars I detailed, and we were out there, a bunch of guys out shooting the middle of the desert, you know, doing a little target practice. No big deal that day. And, you know, anybody who's deployed overseas knows the minute you start lighting off rounds, kids come out of the woodwork and they start, you know, collecting your brass. It's like a common thing that happens overseas. This particular group of kids were very aggressive, and they started, like, you know, pulling stuff off our Humvees, getting too close, and wouldn't respond to us yelling at them. And they were just being a hassle. My. My chief turns to me and goes, hey, you know, Dice, deal with these guys, you know, And I'm trying to swish them away and. And they won't listen. And he says, just mace him. And I'm looking at him and I go, oh, we're Mason kids now. I pull out my mace and I pepper spray all the kids there, and they run away. Now, this is horrible, but in the context of where I was at, what's going on, this is something that was done.
- [19:04]
B
Let me cut you off on a note, and we'll continue the conversation a few moments. This is the law enforcement talk radio show. We're talking with Dr. Tony Dice. He was a United States Navy Seal, paramedic, firefighter, worked overseas in Afghanistan. He blew up his life with alcohol and drugs. There's no other way to say it. And now he helps others build a life they want his website, bishop dice defense.com. you can find us on Facebook. Look for and like the law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page. This is law enforcement talk for the show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. You can find us on LinkedIn. Yeah, we have a profile for the show, but my personal profile is the one that is chock full of content. Just do a search on LinkedIn for John J. Wiley as J O H n J a Y W I L e y. Or just go to LinkedIn.com n john the letter J. Wiley. And be sure to connect. Return a conversation with Dr. Tony Dice. He served as the United States Navy SEAL, a firefighter, paramedic, a professional military guidance counselor, group counselor, therapist. He blew up his life with alcohol and drugs and he's here talking about what he does today and which is. I'll give you a hint. He helps other first responders, military, get clean and sober and build the life they want. Today's website's bishop dicedefense.com. that's bishop dice defense.com for when the break. Dr. Tony. We're talking about you, Mason kids in Afghanistan. Pick up your conversation from there.
- [20:41]
C
Yeah, you know, and this is. I'm not proud to say this, this is, you know, it's one of the many horrible things I did on this deployment. But this particular one, you know, I made the kids. There was one kid there must have been 13, 14 years old. And this, this guy stood his ground. He stuck his chin out and he just took it and stared me down like, with just this look in his eyes, this hate. And it, it caught me off guard. I'm looking at this kid and I'm, you know, it's. It's striking me like, whoa, this, this guy, I have just made an enemy for life. And wow, look at this guy. And that was a moment shared. You know, I shooed him away. He eventually ran away and he left. Now, in the scheme of my day, that day, this was not even the highlight of my day. There was a lot of stuff going on, but there was a moment there that took place. Fast forward me finishing that deployment, back and forth to Afghanistan. Whenever I come home from a deployment, I have trouble reintegrating with the civilian life. Having trouble stopping at stop signs, stopping at stoplights. Always feel like the car outside me is going to detonate. It's taking me a couple drinks just to drive. It's taking, you know, popping pills so I can relax, going back and forth with deployments, trying to navigate that time of life. All this time, my addiction's growing stronger. You know, it's getting worse. I'm, you know, it's. I'm now getting married. I'm having a wife, having a kid. I'm now, I'm being an alcoholic dad. My, My life, my, My health starts deteriorating. Like if, you know, if you're those video game characters you see online where their health bar starts going down, my health bar starts dropping down. Know at this point my drug use has escalated from coke to ecstasy to crystal meth. And I got a serious addiction going.
- [22:41]
B
Yeah, qualifies as serious. Did you know then that was a serious addiction? And did you, I hate to use this term, did you the power to stop it?
- [22:51]
C
I did. You know, I, I knew I liked the party. I knew it was getting out of hand. But I always, you know, I have that, that, that keep going hard charter, never quit attitude that I got. I handle it. You know, I thought I control. I've been through worse. I'll get through this. You know, I'll turn the ship around eventually. So I Had no concept that I'd gone too far or it's getting really bad. The big, you know, there was a wake up call when one of my, I was trying to get another contract to go on another deployment and the recruiting agency looked at me and my normal fighting weight in the teams was 220. I weighed 130 pounds at this point, addicted to crystal meth. And they looked at me and they said, hey guys, get your together and come back. I got turned down. Yeah, that was a big blow.
- [23:43]
B
That was a wake up call for you or was that the beginning of the wake up call for you?
- [23:48]
C
The beginning of the wake up call, you know, and so that's a big blow to the ego. The only really method I know to take care of hurting is to drink more, use more. So that continues my downward spiral and I end up hitting bottom and I end up in a treatment center, you know, and there was, there was a lot of those come to Jesus moments in the treatment center. There was a therapist there who was able to get through to me, you know, and just he was able to catch my attention and work with me. And that began this process of me getting clean and sober, entering into a treatment program, entering into a program of recovery and started getting some traction back in my life, you know. And I went through a 12 step program. I was able to get about a year clean and sober under my belt. And I began to think about that therapist back in treatment and how he was able to help save me from myself, you know. And you know, my whole life I've been trained to be a hero. You know, all McCarney's get back kit bags, M4 duty belts, you know, died. All this stuff I've carried with me to help save someone. And that therapist came to work that morning with a cup of coffee that struck me. Yeah, that to me was like, whoa, how did he do that? You know, with just him? And that stuck out to me. And so my second year in recovery, I toyed with the notion of maybe I can, maybe I could do what that guy does. And I wanted to go back to school. And you know, there was a lot of.
- [25:27]
B
By the way, I'm not going to laugh at you for saying I'm gonna go back to school and I'm gonna save people. Two years sober, that's pretty common.
- [25:35]
C
Well, it is, it is pretty common. Yeah. I mean, and that's right about, you know, if in a 12 step fellowship, that's right about when you start sponsoring people, realize that, wow, you can, you can help someone the same way someone helped you. You know, you. You realize that. That. And for US Military type, we're very used to that. That mentor, mentee, you know, that if someone who knows more than me is going to take me under their wing, you know, that that's a comfortable dynamic that I fell into.
- [26:05]
B
Well, it allows me to be an apprentice. It allows me the freedom that I don't have to figure it out because someone's done before me. They're just going to teach me the ropes, and I got to. I got to apply what they teach, what they show me.
- [26:17]
C
Yeah. And so I'm comfortable with that dynamic. I easily adopted it. It made sense, but I do. You know, it's funny, being a Navy seal, being a high performer, I wanted to have the tools to do this really well. And so that kind of drove me, like, okay, what does it take to be a therapist? Tell me what degrees I need to get. And I looked that up, and I went back to school, and I got my associates, followed by my undergraduate, and I got my master's, all within five years.
- [26:46]
B
And where did you get all those at?
- [26:48]
C
Oh, I went to odu.
- [26:50]
B
That's great. See, back in my day at ODU across the street, we had this place called Firetux, and I used to go there all the time for nickel draft beer night. And I would leave. I'd go there with $2, and I'd leave Han work and have change in my pocket.
- [27:05]
C
That's right. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah.
- [27:08]
B
Back in the old days.
- [27:09]
C
Difference here, when I was going to ODU sober, is that I remembered everything.
- [27:14]
B
That's a crazy.
- [27:16]
C
It was weird. I mean, it was like having a superpower where you could remember where your car was in the morning or where your car keys are at. You know, I really felt the benefits of recovery early on in a very practical way.
- [27:27]
B
Were you a different student sober than you were before?
- [27:30]
C
Oh, yeah. I think the big difference here was I was chasing after this with a veracity that was. That was not like before. Like, I really felt like my life depended on me getting this. Other lives depended on me getting this. It felt like. Like, rigor school. And, you know, rigor school is. Jay.
- [27:52]
B
No.
- [27:52]
C
All right. Rigor school is an army school that they'll send the seals to and other branches to. It's an army school where they teach you to act and repair parachutes. And the final exam for this school is that you have to pack and repair your own parachute. So needless to say, everyone in this class pays attention and they do, you know, whatever they're asked to do, they do with a tenacity. You know, it's literally a life and death pass fail exam. And this felt like rigor school to me. I wanted this bad and I chased after it hard, you know. And so I, I did all the assignments, I did all the extra credit. You know, I was really engaged in the school. And a lot of surprising when you're following the pipeline to be a therapist, you know, you're going in, it's all human services, counseling related. All this work you're doing in that field is a lot of it you've already done working through a program of recovery. You know, it's a lot of self work, a lot of introspection. And so there was a lot of parallels in that and made that journey that much easier for me.
- [29:06]
B
We're gonna take a short break on the note. We're talking with Dr. Tony Dice. He served as the United States Navy SEAL, a firefighter paramedic, he's now a professional military group counselor. He blew up his life with alcohol and drugs from trauma and other things. And his website is BishopDiceDefense.com BishopDiceDefense.com we'll take a short break. I promise you. We'll be right back. Foreign.
- [29:30]
D
How would you like a free ebook on tips to improve your health? We're talking about tips you can use for free to add years to your life and possibly improve the quality of your years. Best of all, the ebook is free to Download@Let Healthy.com when we say free, we mean free. No credit card, no sales funnels, none of that stuff. So you can download the free ebook to improve your physical health, all while preserving your financial health. Get the ebook for free today@le healthy.com that's at let healthy.com again the website is let healthy.com.
- [30:10]
B
Return conversation with Dr. Tony Dice. He was United States Navy SEAL, a paramedic, a firefighter, professional military group counselor is what he does today. He blew up his life with alcohol and drugs from trauma and more. His website, bishop dice defender defense.com that's bishop dice defense.com by the way, this is like old home week for a lot of reasons, Doc. It partly is growing up in North Virginia and a lot of the places you went to school. I brings back memories. Secondly, our stories parallel in a lot of ways. There are some differences in our childhood. But I, I gotta ask this before we get back to your story. Was there, was there any trauma related incident you can put Your finger on that had an impact on your drug and alcohol use?
- [30:54]
C
Oh, yeah. I mean, what I was describing earlier when that. That nacing those kids, believe it or not, years later, that was because, you know, I seemed like I had made peace with it then. It didn't bother me. Years later, when I had my own child and he was getting older and climbing up on my lap and he was become. You know, becoming more interactive, I noticed that my. I was having a reaction to my son. Like, my heart would start beating faster. I would start having, like, almost mini panic attacks. I was having nightmares again. And this is a decade after that interaction in Afghanistan. It was coming back to haunt me. And this is called, you know, I wouldn't know this then, but I would find out later. This is called a moral injury where I had changed and taken on a father role, but I was still reacting to someone who maced kids. And those two identities were having trouble coexisting. And that's something that came up later in therapy and helped me deal with it. But that's one of those things that was taking me out, that kind of me believing I was a poor dad, me not understanding and drinking over it, me having this reaction to fatherhood. I saw this same thing play out time and time again in the firefighters, the law enforcement, the veterans I was dealing with in groups where they didn't understand why they were having a PTSD response so much later in life. And that's a common theme that we see our heroes struggle with, you know, this not understanding why now, why in this way. And it takes a trained therapist or takes someone who's been through it to talk to. To help bring it to surface, repackage it and put it away in a way that you can handle. That's one of the miracles of this program that I'm hoping this message gets out there that, hey, there's a lot of stuff we get through through. There's a lot of things we put ourselves through.
- [32:49]
B
It happened with me, and I was at 32. I was ready to die. I mean, I've got 30 some odd years of my life that's secondhand. What's the word I'm looking for? It's like, it's. I didn't ask for this. If it were up to me, I wouldn't have survived 33 the way I was going. And people really had the power to change my life. And without going into great detail, the people, the counselors that helped me, they were great. They were phenomenal. It was the combat veterans that The Vietnam combat veterans that helped me the most with this. And I don't understand to this day the correlation between alcohol and trauma. I just know for me, it's like throwing gasoline on a fire.
- [33:32]
C
It's true. We use it, we think we're helping a situation. And I tell people it's like pushing the 10 times button. You haven't dealt with anything, you're going to have to deal with it later and it's going to be worse. Yeah, you're exactly right.
- [33:46]
B
And by the way, it couldn't get much worse. And we talked earlier when Dr. Dice said he was £130. At my thinnest, I was £184 when I went to treatment and I had the divorce. Drinking, depression, diet, and I couldn't eat and it was like a skeleton. It was not a good situation. And I was a very young man.
- [34:08]
C
That same story here I was 38 years old and I looked like I was pushing 50. Yep.
- [34:14]
B
So do you ever feel like you go back and say, and before we get into what you're doing today, do you ever feel back and say, we're early in the conversation. We talked about the before and after. The guy before seems like a different character. Did you ever sit there and this is a question that pops up in my head every now and then. What did I do to deserve this life I have today?
- [34:32]
C
Oh, yes. I mean, the. I live my life in a state of gratitude today, you know. You know, I've gone back. I got my PhD. I ended up working in the same treatment center that I found help in. I started a company that I devoted to helping veterans, law enforcement, first responders. I have a gratitude list I keep with me, you know, and those are things in my life that I am grateful for today. That's how I have to live a life based on gratitude. You know, there is so much that should have taken me out, that could have taken me out, that didn't take me out, that today I ask myself on a daily basis, you know, what can I do to pay it back? You know, what can I do to be of service? Because I do feel like I have a debt to this world that is due. There's a reason I'm still alive, and that is, for me, a life of service. I've always been drawn to it. This is where I find peace. This is where I found a place for me to give back. And I think for many of us, especially in the law enforcement community, this is service. And if you crash and burn and you're Coming out the other side, that life of service can continue in a different form. So I've seen a lot of people flip sides to the counseling realm. I've seen a lot of people find different ways to be of service, continue being a service in their world. There's a lot to be said for those who carry that mantle.
- [35:59]
B
There is. And for me, and I'm rephrased this in a form of a question. For me, it puts a purpose to the pain of my past. Is that the same with you?
- [36:07]
C
Oh, you couldn't have said it better, man. Instead of it being a whipping post, something I used to beat the out of myself for, it becomes a guidepost for both myself and for others to help find their way. You're exactly right.
- [36:21]
B
Now, how would you describe your life today compared to how it used to be today?
- [36:25]
C
I have five kids. I think three of them are in college now, by the way.
- [36:29]
B
We know what causes that, Doc.
- [36:31]
C
Say that again.
- [36:32]
B
We know what causes having lots of children. It's totally avoidable.
- [36:36]
C
We do. I am married to a superhero. I have found, you know, she's also in recovery. She, her job. She's an amazing human being. I am. You know, I have a business partner who's also in recovery. You know, I'm invested in my community. There is night and day. And here's the biggest kicker. If you were to ask me, you know, 20 years ago where I'd be, I would never have guessed this. You know, it really took me to hit bottom to be able to find out who I really was. You know, we all have paths we have to walk. Some are much harder than others. Some are much more of a jagged, crooked path to walk. But I mean, I just want to be part of others journeys and see if we can do some good.
- [37:19]
B
And the other thing is that the stuff I consider corny and uncool I do every day and insist on doing. As a matter of fact, I enjoy it. I get benefits from that stuff. And back when I was hip, slick and cool and you couldn't talk to me, oh, man, I turned my nose up with that stuff.
- [37:37]
C
That's funny how that works out, doesn't it? It is that wise old man used to laugh at as someone. Now you're like, oh, now I understand.
- [37:45]
B
Let me know if you can relate to any of this. So I go to bed early. I try my best. Now that I can sleep. I sleep very well. I eat around the same time every day. I watch what I take in. I don't take in a lot of Violence, a lot of trauma, a lot of that stuff. Because I don't like how it affects me and I avoid confrontation as much as possible.
- [38:04]
C
Wow. When you describe that, you know what I hear? I hear a series of rituals that keep you grounded. And to very much the same extent, I have a series of rituals that I do every day that keep me grounded. We are creatures of habit. We like to have a firm baseline. No matter how much we want to deny it, the human experience does enjoy having some stability in our existence.
- [38:32]
B
So you got your doctorate degree, all that stuff, and now what do you do?
- [38:36]
C
Do Bishop and Dice. Defense is a synergy of mental health services, tactical supply and training. You may think that those things don't go together, but I have found that if I go in for the first year of working with your police department, if your fire department and the whole first year, I'll give you the best gear, the stuff we're using in the SEAL teams, the best training, you know, the best know how. We'll talk shop, we'll shoot this, get to know each other. We'll laugh at all the crazy we've been through that you'll get an understanding of who I am. And my team is on year two. We'll bring in the mental health services. So it's a total bait and switch. But it's the only way I've found to be able to get through these populations that don't want to open up.
- [39:16]
B
It works. It works because if you come at me with somebody to this day I'm not going to talk to you about it. I'm just not. Can people find you and get in touch with you on your website?
- [39:26]
C
Bishopdicedefense.com Bishopdicedefense.com look me up. You can also. Hey, there's a lot of other ways ways today we connect. Go to any social media talk. Type in Dr. Dice. You can find me. You can follow me. You'll get first access if you go to drdicebook.com I have a new book coming out. It's going to be wild. Please check it out. It's a message from me to you. You know, I heard Steven Spielberg share one time that you can argue facts all day long and will never change a thing, but if you share a.
- [39:58]
B
Story, it changes everything.
- [40:00]
C
Then and only then can you have a chance at changing someone's perspective.
- [40:03]
B
Dr. Tony Dice, thanks so much for.
- [40:05]
C
Your service and seeing what happens and.
- [40:07]
B
For being guests on show and tell us all about it. We appreciate it.
- [40:10]
C
Awesome, man.
- [40:11]
B
I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're also always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and Podcast. Until then, this is John J. Wiley. See ya.