Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories
Episode: What Is Verbal Judo and Drug Interdiction for Police?
Host: John "Jay" Wiley
Guest: Jeremy Tindall, Retired Maryland State Police Sergeant
Date: January 21, 2026
Episode Overview
In this episode, John "Jay" Wiley interviews retired Maryland State Police Sergeant, Jeremy Tindall, about the realities and sometimes misconceptions of police work. The conversation explores Jeremy's path in law enforcement, the practical application of "verbal judo" during crisis encounters, the nuances of drug interdiction along I-70, the emotional strain of public safety for officers and their families, and Jeremy’s innovative nonprofit initiative, Operation Mayday 13.
The episode offers a candid, inside look at life behind the badge, emphasizing both the tactical and human elements of policing.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Misconceptions About Police Structure and Responsibilities
- Maryland State Police officers often serve multiple roles, especially in areas without local law enforcement (03:08).
- Jeremy details his experience across different types of barracks, contrasting the non-stop pace of “full service” areas with the focused but less hectic traffic barracks.
2. Jeremy Tindall’s Career Journey
- Joined State Police in June 2006, retiring in July 2024, with military service contributing to his years of credit (04:29).
- Explains the progression of rank and differences in supervision and field responsibilities (02:50, 33:03).
3. The Application and Power of Verbal Judo
- Jeremy’s memorable story: Responding alone to a call about a suicidal teenager, he uses calm dialogue and clever radio communication to de-escalate a potentially violent encounter (11:09–16:40).
"I'm not sure yet, but one of us is gonna leave in an ambulance shortly. Go ahead and start them now, huh?" —Jeremy Tindall [16:15]
- Both Jay and Jeremy reflect on the importance of treating people with respect while knowing when to be assertive. They stress that de-escalation is not a one-size-fits-all process (17:18).
“It’s situational and individual dependent.” —Jeremy Tindall [17:39]
4. Drug Interdiction—The Interstate Battlefield
- Interstate 70 (I-70) discussed as a main corridor for drug trafficking into Maryland (21:02).
- Jeremy outlines how small technical cues and behavioral "tells" help officers identify suspect vehicles—ranging from mismatched tags/stickers to implausible alibis.
“Usually two guys that are covered in grease ... do not seem like the kind of people that would go to the aquarium together.” —Jeremy Tindall [25:45]
- Shares the importance of patience and experience: “My goal was...only make one traffic stop a day... and hopefully ... get what I was looking for.” (24:14)
5. Changing Drug Trends and Policing Tactics
- Shift in Frederick from primarily seeing crack cocaine to heroin within a few years (27:06).
- Discussion of the acquired skillset for effective interdiction and the importance of mentorship within the force (27:59).
6. Personal Impact and Transition to Civilian Life
- Jeremy speaks candidly about the toll of law enforcement schedules and the impact on family life:
“For me to be on a permanent late shift...I would never get to see him [my son] ... So...it was better to retire at that time and spend more time with my family.” [35:48]
7. Operation Mayday 13—Turning Service into Support
- Inspiration: Started after a local Hagerstown officer was shot and Jeremy organized a community T-shirt fundraiser (37:11).
- The effort quickly surpassed expectations—over 650 shirts sold, allowing Jeremy to cut a $6,500 check to the officer.
- Lacking nonprofit support, Jeremy and his wife founded their own. The name blends law enforcement distress signals: “Signal 13” (police) and "Mayday" (fire/EMS).
- The nonprofit now supports first responders nationally during times of injury.
“It was very rewarding for me to be able to provide something to fallen or injured first responders.” —Jeremy Tindall [39:36]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “We called them names. They called us names. It was all done in fun. But...we always had each other’s back.” —John J. Wiley [02:09]
- “[Verbal judo is] about reading people... Sometimes you have to approach in a kinder, gentler way... Sometimes you need to be more stern.” —Jeremy Tindall [17:18–17:39]
- “It’s an acquired skillset. Very rarely does someone come in the academy and they've got it down cold.” —John J. Wiley [27:36]
- “When someone calls me Sarge, I’m like — they didn’t have to. So when I call you Sarge, that means a lot.” —John J. Wiley [31:00]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- Introduction and guest background: 00:30–03:40
- Maryland State Police structure explained: 02:50–04:20
- Jeremy’s reason for joining and experience at barracks: 04:23–07:22
- Verbal judo and the suicidal teenager story: 11:09–16:40
- De-escalation discussion: 16:40–18:33
- Drug interdiction explained (I-70, behavioral cues): 21:02–25:44
- Shifts in the drug landscape in Frederick: 27:06–27:36
- Mentoring and training for interdiction: 27:59–28:46
- Transition to sergeant and career wrap-up: 31:00–35:07
- Family considerations and decision to retire: 35:07–36:28
- Operation Mayday 13 origin and mission: 37:11–39:36
Tone and Language
The conversation is candid and collegial, sprinkled with good-natured humor, war stories, and practical advice. There is genuine respect between Jay and Jeremy, a strong sense of camaraderie, and an underlying commitment to service and family.
Summary Takeaway
This episode moves beyond crime and procedure to reveal the human heart of policing—a blend of technical skill, compassion, and adaptability. Jeremy Tindall’s stories highlight the power of dialogue over force, the evolving fight against drugs, and the strength drawn from community. Operation Mayday 13 is a testament to these values, providing a safety net for first responders in their darkest hours.