When Domestic Violence Leads To Murder

Summary

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Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories

Episode: When Domestic Violence Leads To Murder
Host: John "Jay" Wiley (Retired Baltimore Police Sergeant)
Guest: Kelly Ray Robertson, former bail investigator, Pennsylvania
Release Date: March 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the tragic story of a domestic violence case that escalated to murder, as told by Kelly Ray Robertson, a former bail investigator in Pennsylvania. It spotlights the systemic failures that allowed a known violent offender to be released, ultimately leading to the death of a promising young woman. Together with host John "Jay" Wiley, Kelly examines how trauma affected her personally and professionally, her eventual decision to leave the criminal justice system, and her efforts to prevent similar tragedies through advocacy and counseling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Is a Bail Investigator?

• Kelly explains (03:58–05:27) that as a bail investigator in Pittsburgh, she interviewed new arrestees at the jail to verify their background (demographics, employment, drug use, residence) and made recommendations to magistrates on appropriate bail:
  • Options: release on recognizance (ROR), non-monetary bond, or no release (monetary bond).
  • Worked 24/7, 365 days a year, handling up to 30 cases a shift.

Quote:

"So we knew if they were working, if they had issues with drugs and alcohol, but most importantly where they were staying...We would compile that into a report and we would give it to the magistrate." – Kelly Ray Robertson (04:04)

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System Failures and Rising Violent Crime

• Both Kelly and John discuss the frustration of seeing violent offenders rapidly released (06:20).
• Kelly notes a paradigm shift: earlier in her career, repeat offenders and high recidivism were rare. By the end, it was common for defendants to have "16, 17 pending cases" (08:19).
• Homicides spiked 89% in Pittsburgh during this era due to policy changes (07:58).

Quote:

"Before the ink would be dry on the police officer's report, they'd be walking right out the door. Literally." – Kelly Ray Robertson (06:20)

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A Personal Breaking Point: The Pitt Student Case

• Kelly describes the traumatic turning point: a domestic violence case involving a young Pitt student who had done "everything right"—obtained a protection order and cut off contact with her abuser (15:25).
• The accused broke into her apartment and was arrested, but systemic constraints led to his rapid release.
• He subsequently raped another girl before eventually killing the initial victim.

Notable Sequence:

• The defendant had a pending rape charge but no convictions, so the bail system's algorithm recommended release (24:18).
• Kelly pleaded for a higher bond:

  "If he gets out, he's going to kill her." – Kelly Ray Robertson (27:41)

• Ultimately, a $10,000 bond was set, but the defendant was released swiftly and the tragedy unfolded as Kelly feared (28:51–30:54).

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Systemic Critique and Personal Impact

• The episode explores the limits of the bail system:
  • The system prioritized low jail populations and metrics over safety.
  • The protection order ("just a piece of paper") proved ineffective against determined offenders (37:09).
• Kelly internalized the tragedy, grappling with guilt and a sense of responsibility despite doing all she could within the system (39:00).
• She attempted to channel her grief—writing legislative proposals and considering systemic reforms—but found little institutional support (39:04).

Quote:

"I said, I'm going to try and put a stop to that." – Kelly Ray Robertson on contacting another county about the suspect's prior rape charge (24:31)

"The night that I found out that she had been killed, I did walk out. I grabbed all my stuff. I used some very colorful language, and I went out into the parking lot to leave." – Kelly Ray Robertson (40:34)

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Trauma, Grief, and Finding a New Path

• The trauma of the job and this case lingered for years. Kelly describes mourning both the victim and the loss of her own professional identity (13:14–14:00).
• Initially staying five more years, Kelly finally left, realizing the system's intransigence.
• She found personal healing and purpose by volunteering at an organization for grieving children—forcing her to confront her own long-suppressed grief from her father's death and helping others process trauma (42:07–44:09).
• Transitioned into private counseling, now running mindfulcoastcounseling.com.

Quote:

"For the first time in over 25 years, I was actually grieving my dad... and I had so much adrenaline and rage and grief, and just. I was absolutely furious." – Kelly Ray Robertson (43:49, 40:50)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• Systemic Frustration:

  "They would walk out before we did at the end of the night, just like you said. And that was incredibly frustrating." – Kelly Ray Robertson (06:30)

• Repeated Offender Dynamics:

  "By the time I left in 2022, we had people with 16, 17 pending cases...The system had no teeth and the defendants knew it." – Kelly Ray Robertson (08:19)

• On the Pitt student's diligence:

  "She did everything right. She got a PFA. She stopped contacting him... She did all of the legwork and so did her family." – Kelly Ray Robertson (15:25)

• Guilt and Powerlessness:

  "Why didn't I just hold on to him, physically hold on to his shirt? Things that are completely unreal, but that doesn't stop the logical, doesn't stop the emotions." – Kelly Ray Robertson (39:00–39:04)

• Host's Perspective:

  "The whole purpose of bail is a constitutional right guaranteed to show up for trial. And are you a threat to community. And if there's any charges, you can't show a threat to community. It's tough." – John J. Wiley (30:54)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:58] – What is a bail investigator?
• [06:20] – Frustration with system releasing violent offenders
• [07:58] – 89% homicide increase and system breakdown
• [13:14] – Leaving a career in law enforcement: emotional process
• [15:25] – The Pitt student’s case detailed
• [24:18] – Systemic constraints and bail recommendations
• [27:41] – Kelly’s plea: “If he gets out, he’s going to kill her.”
• [28:51] – The bond, rapid release, and subsequent tragedy
• [39:04] – Guilt, legislative attempts, and resigning
• [42:07] – Transition to grief work and counseling

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Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, direct, and emotionally charged, with both Kelly and John drawing on their frontline law enforcement and trauma experiences. The tone remains empathetic, with a sense of urgency and frustration permeating the discussion, especially as the story builds toward its tragic conclusion and its aftermath.

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Summary

This episode offers a rare look behind the scenes of the bail system and the human impact of administrative decisions. Kelly Ray Robertson’s story puts a face on systemic failures, showing how even the most diligent efforts can be thwarted by policy and bureaucracy—and how trauma can spur personal transformation and advocacy. Her journey from bail investigator to trauma counselor underscores the long-tail impact of front-line exposure to violence, loss, and regret, while offering a glimmer of hope through her subsequent work with grieving families.

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Find Kelly Ray Robertson:

• X (Twitter): @KellyRayReports
• Counseling website: mindfulcoastcounseling.com

Host: John "Jay" Wiley - letradio.com

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Transcript

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[John J. Wiley]

She used to be a bail investigator. She wound up leaving the job because of some very troubling cases. I'll give you a Hint. Homicides increased 89% due to the policies that they had. Welcome to the law enforcement talk radio show. In the law enforcement talk radio show we are joined by special guests talking about their experiences, the realities of investigating crimes, plus those have experienced horrendous trauma. Police, first responders, military and victims of crime share their stories. Hi, I'm John J. Wiley. In addition to being a broadcaster, I'm also a retired police sergeant. Be sure to check out our website, letradio.com and also like us on Facebook, search for the law enforcement talk radio show. Do you want to be a guest on law enforcement talk rated show and podcast? It's really quite simple. And before you get into this notion that I'm not a cop, I wasn't a cop, I don't have something contribute. Well, the show is about investigating crime. That's one aspect of it from the real life perspective of those who did it. And then it's also about trauma, how trauma impacted them. Often crime based, but not always. Our guests quite often are law enforcement officers, other first responders, military, victims of crime, their spouses or survivors. Talking about how trauma impacted them, what happened, how it affected their lives, and how they rebuilt their lives after. If you want to be a guest, just contact me. It's really simple. Send an email to jayetradio.com that's J A Y etradio.com or go to letradio.com at the contact us page and you can get me right there as well. Joining us on the law enforcement talk radio show, we have Kelly from Pennsylvania contacting us and we had a long conversation about Pennsylvania. I'm a Maryland boy and I do not miss the cold weather one bit. Not at all. I do miss the Chesapeake. I miss the people, a lot of other things. But Kelly is a former bail investigator for the state of Pennsylvania, which she'll talk about in a few moments. She left that. She went into private practice. The best places you can get more is number one is on X. It's Kelly Ray reports. It's R A E. Kelly Ray reports on x and also mindfulcoastcounseling.com that's mindful. C o a s t counseling.com Kelly, thanks for your service and thanks for being a guest on the law enforcement talk radio show. Both very much appreciate it.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Thank you for having me.

[John J. Wiley]

It's a pleasure to have you here. And I got to be honest, there's some difference in Maryland and Pennsylvania, but I never understood and to this day I no idea what a bail investigator is, what their job is. What did you do?

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

So it was actually through the arm of the criminal courts in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and we worked inside the intake department at the Allegheny County Jail and we interviewed people who were arrested on new charges or failure to appear, bench warrants, basically just to get their demographic information. So we knew if they were working, if they had issues with drugs and alcohol, but most importantly where they were staying. And we would attempt to verify that information with a reference that they gave us that was one part of the job. And we would compile that into a report and we would give it to the magistrate who would be arraigning that defendant later on that day. So the options would be an ROR bond, which would usually apply to new offenders, or a dui, a non monetary bond where we would say you don't have to pay any money, but we want you to report to our office either in person or by. And then there was the no release where we were saying you were too much of a threat to the community or to the victims or we think that you're a flight risk. So we want you to have to pay a monetary bond. And then in cases of homicides we would say no bond, you have to be held without bond. So that was the job. And we could do like 30 cases a shift. And we were a 24, 7 operation, 365 days a year. But we were a division of the criminal courts.

[John J. Wiley]

And how many years is you do this?

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Fourteen and a half years.

[John J. Wiley]

You don't sound like you've been at any place for 14 some odd years.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Well, I started at 29 years old in 2008, and I left in 2022, in July of 2022.

[John J. Wiley]

And we're going to talk about some of the reasons why you left in a moment. One of the things that I hear quite often, not just from you, but my own experience, and not just my own experience, but other guests as well. I was a Baltimore police officer in Baltimore, Maryland. It's very similar to Pittsburgh in a lot of different ways. And by the way, go Ravens. I'm not gonna say anything about your Steelers, but the biggest problem I had was that you would arrest someone for serious violent crimes and they'd be out walking before you're done with the paperwork.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes. Yes, sir. You took the words right out of my hand. Before the ink would be dry on the police officer's report, they'd be walking right out the door. Literally. They would walk when we would be outside taking a break, they would. They would walk out before we did at the end of the night, just like you said. And that was incredibly frustrating.

[John J. Wiley]

And I didn't, you know, listen. And I'll just say this way. I was in four shootings in a little more than 10 years. And the first two, I never fired a shot back. But the one thing that they all had in common was they all had prior, multiple prior convictions for violent crimes. And yet they were still walking the street.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes, yes, 100%. And that got worse as my career went on. In the beginning, we tried very hard to hold on to those people. We were not able to always prevent them from posting a bond. The bondsmans were out there, and they only, of course, charge a small percentage of the total bond. And so our goal was to have it set high enough so that it would be harder for a violent offender to get out. Not just for the safety of the community, but so often for the safe of the victims that were in the case. And, you know, sometimes those bonds would get posted and sometimes they would get withdrawn altogether, but the recidivism wasn't as high. Halfway through my career, it took a huge jump, and that's when things got incredibly chaotic.

[John J. Wiley]

I know from my notes that in our prior conversations you have a thing for numbers. And part of my notes show that in, I think it was 2020 in the Pittsburgh area, they had an 89% increase in homicides and these were, I'm assuming they were a lot of people that have been arrested multiple times before.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes, yes. We. When I first started in the first half of my career, we took pending cases into account. When we made our reports to the magistrates and we had a little box to check if somebody had a pending case and we had a little block to put 1, 2, 3 pending cases. That box was always empty. We did not have people coming in over and over and over and over again. By the time I left in 2022, we had people with 16, 17 pending cases. It would us going from 20 minutes to do a case to an hour and a half or two hours to do a case. The system had no teeth and the defendants knew it. And so they knew they were getting out. They would yell and taunt us with the fact that they were going to get out, that we were wasting our time. And quite frankly, we were recommending that they get out.

[John J. Wiley]

Yeah, we'll talk about that in a few moments. You left the job in 2022.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes.

[John J. Wiley]

Did you retire or did you say, that's it, I'm done with this?

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

I said, that's it, I'm done with this. And it was a decision. It's one of the hardest decisions, probably the hardest decision I've ever made in my life because I had really grown accustomed to that job. I always wanted to work in the justice system and in law enforcement and I had a badge. I'd become incredibly close with a lot of the office.

[John J. Wiley]

Well, let's take a break and we'll turn that conversation just a moment. We're talking with Kelly Ray Robertson. She was by Kelly for short. She is a former bail investigator for state of Pennsylvania. You can find her. Kelly Ray reports on X. It's Rae. Kelly Rae reports on X and her website is mindfulcoastcounseling.com there's mindfulcoastcounseling dot com if you're on the Clubhouse drop in audio chat app, be sure to look for me and follow me. My name's John the letter J. Wiley W I L E Y. You can also search for E T radio show. That's John J. Wiley W I L e y at LetRadio show on the Clubhouse Drop in audio chat app. This is law enforcement talk radio show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Of all the radio stations in the United States, there are no other shows like the law enforcement talk radio show. And on Facebook there's only one official page. Do a search on Facebook for the law enforcement talk radio show. And be sure to like the law enforcement talk radio show Facebook page.

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[John J. Wiley]

Return to our conversation with Kelly Ray Robertson on the law enforcement talk radio show. Conte is from the great state of Pennsylvania, or the commonwealth, I think. Is it a commonwealth of Pennsylvania?

[Interviewer/Host]

It was.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

It was the criminal courts of Allegheny county in Pittsburgh.

[John J. Wiley]

Gotcha. See, I for one, I spent most of a lot of my life in Virginia before I went to Maryland. And that's the commonwealth. And I don't know the difference between commonwealth and the state, but it sounds pretty, pretty nifty if you ask me. You used to be a bail investigator. And we'll talk about why she left in a few moments. Best place to find her two places online. Kelly Rae reports. That's Kellyrae reports on X. And also her website is mindfulcoastcounseling.com that's mindfulcoastcounseling dot com c o a S T. And we'll talk about that in a few moments. Earlier, you four minute break. You're talking about the difficult decision of walking away from this career. And you said that part of it was. And I really understand this, Kelly, because it becomes part of who you are. It becomes part of your life, it becomes part of your plans, becomes everything. And then you decided, I'm done with this. And I'm paraphrasing, but it was difficult for you.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes, it was horrible. I cried the entire walk out the door. And of course we had to go through several doors to get in and out of the jail and be let in and out by control. And so it was a very long and painful walk. And my co worker was just, you know, she was a newer girl. I had trained her and she said, you know, one step in front of the other, Kelly, this is the hardest part. And I cried the whole way home. And I think I mourned for a couple of years, to be quite frank. It's taken this long, I think, to be able to talk about my experiences there and how big of a part of a life that was for me without breaking down. Because there was a point where I was very proud of what I did.

[John J. Wiley]

Oh, yeah.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

And it was my identity.

[John J. Wiley]

Look, I'm not going to bash you for that. And people love to throw around. They shouldn't make it part of their identity. When I was a police, that's what I did. That was who I was. And I became very close to my co workers. We went to weddings together, we did christenings, we did everything together. And when I got hurt and retired, it was all over quickly. And when it was over, I was like yesterday's news.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes.

[John J. Wiley]

You know, it's like you're not a part of anymore. And we talk about. And by the way, a lot of that had to do with me because I talked to a lot of these co workers later, years later, and it's like nothing ever happened. No time passed by. But I had a lot of resentment, a lot of animosity towards City hall and apartment, not my co workers so much.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Right. Yes, there was a case. I can totally understand that.

[John J. Wiley]

Yeah. Look, I understand your frustration and why you left, and I understand why you feel like it's part of you. What I want to hear about is there was a case in particular, and there's no phrase that people use, a straw. They're both the camel's back. It doesn't mean that it's small. It doesn't mean that is insignificant. It means there's usually lots of things preceding that. But there was a particular case involving a Pitt student that kind of broke you.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes. He was 20 years old and she was in a volatile relationship and she really broke the mold of what we think of when we think of what a victim in a domestic case looks like. She was not that girl. She was a young, beautiful Pitt student. She had her whole life ahead of her. She was a good student. She came from a good family and she did everything right. She got a pfa. She stopped contacting him.

[John J. Wiley]

And was the psa, restraining orders, a

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

protection Yeah, a protection from abuse order. So that's what she was advised to do by the police. And she did it. A lot of women and men victims, we would say get a PFA and maybe we could talk them into getting a temporary one. But to actually follow through by going to family division and having hearings, it's a lot. Especially if you're a busy person, you don't want to necessarily go into court and be interrogated.

[John J. Wiley]

Right.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

So we can usually get people to do the first part, but following through is much harder. She did all of that, she did all of the legwork and so did her family. They stood behind her 100%. And we got him for crawling in her kitchen window, her apartment, which was off campus housing in Oakland and Pittsburgh. And he was of course arrested, but he wasn't arrested for about four days. It took police that long to catch up with him. They charged him. Her roommates scared him away that day. So only God knows what would have happened to her if they weren't there. So he flees and he takes off and the police, the Pittsburgh police are actively searching for him and they catch him and they bring him down to the Allegheny County Jail. And I get that case. And it's my co worker's job to interview him and it's my job to look at his history and then see what kind of recommendation we should give. Now it's important to note that the computer would spit out a recommendation based off of the information we would put in, meaning numbers. But it was our ability to contact a supervisor who was on call to say, I don't think this is a good idea. Can we move this person up? Can we move them down? Moving them up would mean can I take them from an ROR or a non monetary bond to a recommendation of no release, meaning we want him to have to pay a bond. You know, holding onto him would be the perfect case scenario. And you can tell when he was being interviewed. There's glass that would separate us and there's a tiny slit at the bottom. So we would ask people to sit down so we could hear them and they could hear us. Other than that, it would be difficult for us to hear them. Plus we're trying to type the information. And as soon as my co worker made contact with him, he refused to sit down. And then it deteriorated from there. He wouldn't tell us where he was staying, he wouldn't give us any information about his parents. He wouldn't give us his cell phone number. And then in the midst of refusing all of this very simple demographic information. He blurts out that he plays basketball for the University of Pittsburgh. I'm within an earshot and I can hear how defiant he's being. And every question he's saying, call my attorney. Call my attorney. And my coworker's like, I'm not calling your attorney. That's not what this is. We're not going to talk about the case. I just need to know where you stay. I just need to know, do you have a driver's license? Do you live in Pennsylvania? Like, I'm not interrogating you, that we need an attorney.

[John J. Wiley]

Right.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

And so when he blurted out that he played ball for Pitt, that was like, why are you telling us this? So I hurried up and I googled it. And he hadn't been a high scorer for the past, like two years. So it made me think he doesn't play ball for Pitt. And it turns out he wasn't even a student at Pitt anymore. He had gotten thrown off the team. He was no longer actively attending the University of Pittsburgh. So it was a lie. So the most important part of this, though, is his rap sheet had one arrest on it, and that was for rape.

[John J. Wiley]

And it was. That's a heavy duty. A lot of people will like to read into that. But when, when, when you see that or when I saw that, I should say alarm bells went off, that this is a potentially violent offender. Is that what happened to you?

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. And it was a case in another county. So I was not able to locate the victim's name and the docket sheets that I had available. But I wanted to know, is this the same victim as the victim in our case? The criminal trespass. So I just dialed 911 from my desk. I'd done that several times for other reasons and told them who I was and where I was calling from. And they dispatched me to Indiana County's 911 told them the same. Who I was, where I was calling from.

[John J. Wiley]

Let's take a short break on that note. Return to our conversation with Kelly Ray Robertson in just a few moments. Is law enforcement talk radio show. You can find her two places. One is on X. Kelly Ray reports. It's Rae on X and also our website mindfulcoastcounseling.com that's mindful c o a s t counseling dot com. This law enforcement talk radio. We'll be right back.

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[John J. Wiley]

Return Conversation with Kelly Ray Robertson on the law Enforcement talk radio show. Kelly is a former bail investigator for State of Pennsylvania. She left that job and we're explaining reasons why? And hang on. She'll go into more details in her phone in a moment. Best place to get her is two places online. One's X. Kelly Ray reports it's R A E. Kellyray reports on X. And he also has her website, mindfulcoastcounseling.com that's c o a s t. Mindfulcoastcounseling dot com Kelly, before we enter break, you're talking about you dialed 911 and you called another county. And we trying to find out whether or not this person that was the victim of the rape was the same person as the victim in the domestic assault.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes, sir. Yes.

[John J. Wiley]

And what did you find out?

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

I did receive. I received a phone call from the sergeant for that department. And I told him who I was and why I was calling and where I was calling from. And he said, I don't have that information on me. Let me turn my cruiser back around and go back to the station. And he called me back within, like, probably three minutes. And he said, what's the name of your victim? And I told him, and he said, different girl.

[John J. Wiley]

Okay.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

And I said, okay. And he said, you know, he gets around. And I said, yes, sir, I get that impression. And I remember the words I used. I said, I'm going to try and put a stop to that. And the big red flag again, another huge red flag was I considered it far worse for there to be multiple victims as opposed to it being the same victim over and over again, which I know you see a lot in law enforcement. But when it was a different victim, it was like, this is really bad. He does not accept women telling him no. So of course, our recommendation was spitting out a release on your own recognizance, and I wanted him held.

[John J. Wiley]

That was a recommendation from the state through their computer system.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

It was saying, release on your own recognizance because he had no convictions. He only had one pending case, but the pending case was for rape. And then the charge in Pittsburgh was criminal trespass. And I felt that if her roommates had not been there, God forbid, it would have been far worse than a criminal trespass. So I had to call my supervisor for permission to ask the magistrate for a high bond. And when I called my supervisor, she declined and said no. We had become about metrics and reducing jail population, and it was about letting people go, not keeping people in. And that had changed a year earlier and had been getting much worse. But again, we had that in place where we could call our supervisors and make a case. Like, this is what's going on, and this is why we don't agree with this assessment. I gave her all of that information, but she declined the override. So I.

[John J. Wiley]

And on the criminal trespass, and I'm not saying this to diminish what he did or what your actions were, but it's like disorderly conduct. It's not a heavy duty crime.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Right, right. And that, you know, we can agree, and of course, on its own, it might look kind of mundane and not really too bad, but when you put it all into the context, and that was the advantage of us being in the jail, is we were able to get all of the stuff that wasn't on the paperwork. We were able to get the demeanor of the defendant and how defiant he was being. Just through a simple interview, we were able to see that personality, whereas people outside of that office could not. We had to tell them. So when I hung up the phone, I called over to arraignment court and asked for my friend who was the boss on that shift. And I told him, I'm about to send you an assessment on this defendant. I want you to burn it, bury the ashes. Under no circumstances do you follow this assessment and let him out. And he said, who was on the bench? And he said, she always goes with your recommendations. And he said, why don't you come over here and talk to her personally? And I said, you know, if I come over and talk to her and I caught by my bosses, I'm in for a lashing. And I regret that terribly to this day, because I influenced magistrates in the past. I'd go over and I'd talk to them, and sometimes they didn't want to hear anything I had to say. Others, I felt I have relationships with to this day, because, you know, I gave them information that if I was a magistrate, I certainly would want to have, because if something were to happen, it's going to be my name in the paper. And I said, listen. I said. And I. I tried to say, are you sure? I said these words exactly after this happened. And they said, no, Kelly, you said it. You said that. These words exactly. I said to the man in arraignment court, I said, if he gets out, he's going to kill her. And so he says, I'll go talk to her. And he hangs up. And he calls me back and he said, I got you 10,000 straight. That's as high as she was willing to go. And I said, well, I said, I guess that's better than nothing. Now, quick release is when a bond is set and it gets posted so fast that they don't even get processed into the jail.

[John J. Wiley]

Right.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

So again, here we go with the paperwork not even being dry, and he's sauntering out the door. And the sheriff's office had an office in the courts that was attached to the jail. And they would bother us all day, and I'd bother them all day. They became very close friends of mine. I respect them very much. And I went over and would tell them what was going on. And I told them, this guy, we just did his case. He's going to kill her. He's going to kill her. Well, he did. He got out and he broke into her apartment while she was sleeping, and it happened. No, it's important to note that in between the criminal trespass case, he ended up raping another girl. This girl was 17. This is victim number three. So in between us releasing him and him murdering this Pitt student, he managed to rape again. So Sunday morning, I'm checking the news, and I see that a Pitt student was found dead, and she was severely injured. And my first thought was, these poor kids, they drink so much on the weekends. She must have fallen down the steps. It was her. And I didn't know. So I come into work on Monday, which was a holiday, a court holiday. And my co workers knew her. She's a young girl. She's dating a Pittsburgh police officer. And she comes in and says, did you hear about that girl that was beaten to death? Apparently we just did a case on him. And I froze, and I said, what was the name of the defendant? And she actually called her boyfriend. And then she was typing it into the computer at the same time. And she told me, and she said, kelly, you did his case. And I just thank God my chair was behind me because I fell into my chair. My knees gave out. I just buried my head in my hands, and I just kept saying, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God.

[John J. Wiley]

I can only imagine, first of all, the guilt we'll talk about in a moment. But number one, we used to have a saying, and I hate saying this, but catching people before they commit the crime, usually it's not a severe crime. It's not going. They can't be charged with something tremendous. And I'm not defending police, but they didn't have a whole lot of options, and the courts didn't have a whole lot of options either, because. Because the whole purpose of bail is a constitutional right guaranteed to show up for trial. And are you a threat to community. And if there's any charges, you can't show a threat to community. It's tough. It's really tough. You can know all day long, you can suspect all day long, but that doesn't equate to evidence.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

The police certainly had their hands tied and there's, I don't find any fault in anything that they did. They, they arrested him, they tracked him down. Every time he did something, it was the courts that kept giving him chance after chance. And sadly, the one person who was deserving of a chance the most who hadn't done anything wrong was the woman he killed.

[John J. Wiley]

We're gonna take a short break on that. Not. We're talking with Kelly Robertson. Kelly Rae Robertson. She used to be a bail investigator for the state of Pennsylvania. She left that job, which we'll talk about in a few moments. The best place to find her is Kelly Ra on X. It's Kelly R A E reports on X and her website is mindfulcoastcounseling.com that's mindful c o a s t counseling.com we return on the law enforcement talk radio show. We're going to talk about the after effects, why she left the job. We know the reasons why, but she's going to explain why from her own mouth. You get to hear it from her. This is law enforcement talk ratio. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. How would you like to improve your health? Let's get healthy tips you can use today for free. They don't require any money at all. You can download a free ebook, 15 tips to improve your health at let healthy.com that's LetHealthy.com again it's LetHealthy.com and let's get healthy for free.

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[John J. Wiley]

During conversation with Kelly Ray Robertson on the law enforcement talk radio show. Kelly used to be a bail investigator for the state of Pennsylvania. She left that job for reasons which we'll explain in a few moments. Best places to find her two places online. Kelly Ray reports on accident is Kelly R A ereports on X and her website is mindfulcoastcounseling.com that's c o a s t mindfulcoastcounseling dot com Kelly, I can understand a lot of what you're talking about. I can understand the frustration. I can understand. Here's something we didn't get a chance to talk about. Wanting to stay and want to be the piece of change in a broken system, but is realizing you can only do so much. You made the decision after this case to leave what you were doing.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes, I did. Actually stayed another five years, which sounds terrible, but the night sounds terrible.

[John J. Wiley]

It sounds like you still wanted to be part of the change and you realize you're beating the head against the wall.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes, I reasoned with myself in my own mind that it was better for me to be there and try and fight for cases than to Be absent altogether. And there were victims that I had helped get PFAs and things of that nature that would thank me.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, PSAs, what's that stand for in Pennsylvania?

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Protection From Abuse Order. Restraining Order. Restraining order.

[John J. Wiley]

Yeah, so we used to say. And I have two younger daughters. I have four younger sisters. I was raised by my mother. My dad was career Navy. He was gone all the time. And I have nothing against these, but protection orders are just pieces of paper. If someone's going to harm you, you need to arm yourself with something other than a piece of paper.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes, yes. And it's funny that you mentioned that, because I would have these same conversations. I would say, listen, this just is a piece of paper. All it does is give the police something more to use to arrest somebody. So if he shows up or if he breaks the however many feet away he has to stay, that's it. And if you're not somebody that's comfortable with a firearm, I totally understand, understand. I would tell them, go to your local sporting goods stores, go to the bat section, the heaviest one you could pick up and swing. You get one for every whatever window.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, my frustration as a police officer was we had domestic violence calls, call after call, after call. The same house, same victims, same scenario, and it usually involved alcohol and drugs, where the. The. This case, the ex wound up assaulting her. But the victims would do nothing about it. And we would try, try, and sometimes they ended horribly, sometimes they didn't, but it was sometimes years. And this didn't sound like it was a case of years. It sounded like it was pretty quick.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes. Yes. I think this is why this particular case, at least, it broke the mold in my mind because it actually. Because of who this young girl was, meaning she was just a young college student. It made international news. It made People magazine. And the facts of the case, they were missing because nobody knew my office's involvement. I knew, though. And I was beating the of myself every single day saying, why didn't I just hold on to him, physically hold on to his shirt? Things that are completely unreal, but that

[John J. Wiley]

doesn't stop the logical, doesn't stop the emotions.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Exactly. And, you know, I. I've had a couple of things happen to me before I even started this job. I lost both my parents before I was 30. I lost my dad when I was a freshman in high school. And he was my hero, my everything, my best bud. And so I thrived in chaos, and I thrived in other people's chaos. And I was A fixer. I wanted to fix the problem. How can I make this better? And so as long as I was involved in this cycle of craziness that goes on inside of a county jail, the banging, the yelling, the sirens, the alarms, the fights, the yelling, the screaming, it was like, I have a job to do, and this is what I'm doing. And then the day after she was killed, I needed a way to do something to make it so that this didn't happen in vain. And I Googled, how do you write a legislative proposal? And I got the instructions, and I wrote one, and I wrote one to be named after her. And I sent it to politicians, and I sent it to my judge friends, and they all thought it was a great idea, but nobody would sign off on it because it would call for somebody's bond to be held without bond or restricted completely if they had another pending case that involved a domestic partner that was, like, former or current. So I tried to channel my grief and anger and rage into that. And I. The night that I found out that she had been killed, I did walk out. I grabbed all my stuff. I used some very colorful language, and I went out into the parking lot to leave.

[John J. Wiley]

I can guarantee you use colorful language if you're like me, which it sounds like you are. I've been like. And another thing. And I've been talking the entire time as I was leaving, crying, yelling, the whole nine yards.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I probably could have lifted the back end of a car with one hand at that point. I had so much adrenaline and rage and grief, and just. I was absolutely furious. I called one of my friends who was a sheriff's deputy, and he couldn't understand me. He said, where are you? I can't hear you. Are you okay? What's happening? Like, stop screaming. What's going on? I called my one very dear friend who I talked to to this day, who's a retired magistrate, who's like a father to me, and he said, oh, Kelly, oh, my God, I'm so sorry this happened. And it was like, don't tell me you're sorry. And I understand the need to say, I'm so sorry that this happened, but it was like, there's a family out there that's making funeral arrangements right now. And it didn't have to go this way.

[John J. Wiley]

No. And by the way, and I'm not saying it's you personally, but it was the system's job to protect that person.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yeah.

[John J. Wiley]

And in this case, at least, and far too often, the system did not work. It did not do its job. All that had to be channeled somewhere. And usually what happening is it can't just be professionally. It's also personally. Did that happen with you?

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes, it did. In a couple of years after this case happened, I found an organization that works with grieving children and their families. I'm going to try really hard not to get emotional here. I became a volunteer there, and officers were actually advising me against it, saying, kelly, how are you going to volunteer at a place that works with grieving kids and their families when you still talk about your dad? As if I'm not supposed to talk about my dad. As if grief is supposed to have an expiration date. And I would listen, and I would go to write the volunteer coordinator an email, because I had set up for a January training, January of 2019, right before my 40th birthday. And when I'd go to write her, I would start to backspace slowly. And then someone would throw a case on my desk, and it would give me a good excuse to exit out of the email. And I thought, I'll deal with that later. Well, I never did send that email. I showed up instead, and it's a very small staff of five people, and it was 29 hours of training. And they were training us about grief and the activities that we would do with the families. We used our own experiences of grief in our own personal lives. And so, for the first time in over 25 years, I was actually grieving my dad. I was using my dad in these training exercises. And these five staff members are just angels. They're absolutely brilliant. And I had taken the Pittsburgh police test many times. I wanted to be a cop very bad, but I could never run fast enough. I just could not do it.

[John J. Wiley]

By the way, unless they're chasing me, a gun, or I got a gun and I'm chasing someone, there's no running involved. I'll take a car.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes, exactly.

[John J. Wiley]

And by the way, we used to run in Baltimore in the wintertime, and it was. Was so cold that cold air hit you. I could imagine Pittsburgh being the same way. Did you transition into becoming a therapist?

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Yes, I did. I started volunteering at this organization and Just tell about yourself, Kelly. What do you do? And I. Well, I work at a jail. And then I got more comfortable, and I started to share some stories because I have many, many stories in 14 and a half years that. That ended similarly to this one. And they were saying, oh, my God, Kelly, that's terrible. And I'm thinking, really like that's not a healthy environment.

[John J. Wiley]

I still get that. And that's part of the reason why I don't talk about my police experience too much, because people are like shocked. My ex, my wife now is shocked at some of the things I tell her and she goes, I can't believe you went through that. I'm like, what? She's like, I called it Tuesday. We're talking with Kelly Robertson. She is a former bail investigator for State of Pennsylvania. She left that job, which she explained why two places to find her. Kelly Ray reports. It's Rae Kellyray reports on X and also her website mindfulcoastcounseling.com that's where she does the therapy work. Mindfulcoastcounseling dot com Kelly, thanks for your service and thanks for talking all about it on Law Enforcement Talk Ratio. Both very much appreciate it.

[Kelly Ray Robertson]

Thank you for having me.

[John J. Wiley]

I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and Podcast. Until then, this is John J. Wiley.

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