← Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories
Law Enforcement Talk: True Crime and Trauma Stories
Working Undercover for the ATF
00:38:49
Working undercover for the ATF is not just a job, it is a life lived in shadows, deception, and constant danger. For Lou Valoze, a retired federal agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, that life became his reality for nearly a decade as he infiltrated some of the most violent criminal organizations in the United States.
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- [00:01]
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- [01:02]
John J. Wiley
He's a retired ATF agent. From 2006 to 2014, he worked undercover in storefront stings infiltrating organized crime. He and his team took thousands of guns off the street from violent felons. And he's coming up on a Law Enforcement Today Show. Welcome to the Law Enforcement Today Radio Show. I'm your host. My name is John J. Wiley. In addition to being a radio broadcaster, I'm a retired police sergeant. For the latest news articles and much more, check out our website, letradioshow.com in the law Enforcement Today show, we'll be joined by special guests. We'll be talking about their experiences and issues affecting law enforcement officers, first responders, their families, their community, and victims of horrendous crimes. Be sure to like us on Facebook. Our page is Law Enforcement Today Radio Show. Check out the daily articles on our website, letradioshow.com and while you're there, download our free app. Of all the radio stations in the United States, there are no other shows like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. And on Facebook, there's only one official page. Do a search on Facebook for the Law Enforcement Talk Radio show and be sure to like the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show Facebook page Calling us from the Southeast Georgia area, we have Lou Veloci on the phone. Lou is a retired ATF agent. He worked many, many years undercover. We'll talk about that in a moment. He's also author of the book Storefront Sting An ATF Agent's Life Undercover written by Lou with Brian Whitney. And forward by Javier Pena, who we've had on the show before. Some heavy hitters in that book, Lou.
- [02:43]
Lou Velosi
Yes. Thank you. It's an honor to be here, John. Much appreciated.
- [02:46]
John J. Wiley
I'm so glad you were here. I'm so glad that you were here to tell your story. And you know, to be honest with you, the ATF doesn't get a whole lot of publicity. And for, as a matter of fact, most law enforcement agency don't. And when they do, it's usually wrong, misleading, inaccurate, or flat out biased. So I'm so thrilled you're coming on to tell your story.
- [03:06]
Lou Velosi
Yep. Thank you. We, you know, hf, we. Seems like the only publicity we do get is negative sometimes. It has been deserved at times, mostly due to ATF management. But all the, all the great things that we've done don't seem to ever make it to the press.
- [03:26]
John J. Wiley
No. And it's usually the management administration brass that's usually the cause of it. And a lot of people really don't understand what ATF does. What is the mission, briefly, of the atf?
- [03:38]
Lou Velosi
So our mission, which has changed over the years, is primarily, and probably for the last 20 years, gangs, guns and drugs. And that's primarily getting the crime guns out of the hands of gang members and violent felons and the people out there in society who are not supposed to have guns. That is our primary mission.
- [04:02]
John J. Wiley
One of the things I always say, and I'm a retired street cop, is the ATF has a reputation amongst law enforcement, least in Baltimore, of being street cops. That you saw them, they were out there, they're on the street, they're working. Were some of the other federal agencies, and I'm not saying this is a negative, but some of the federal agencies rarely ever leave the office.
- [04:22]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, you know, I came over from another agency. I started. I was. I was out on the streets in Los Angeles and was lucky enough to get on a task force with atf. And I saw what you just described. You know, these guys were. They were first well respected, you know, by the lapd, by the. The real street cops. And they were always in the middle of things. I mean, they were going after the worst of the worst. They were kind of the cowboys, the street cops of federal law enforcement. And, you know, I said to myself, then this is what I'm going to do. They were doing all the heavy undercover work. That's what I wanted to do. And I was. Eventually I was able to make my way over to the atf.
- [05:04]
John J. Wiley
So you did a lot of Undercover work. And we'll talk about that at length in a moment. But before we do, Louis, I got to tell people I worked narcotics for years, and I was a good surveillance cop. I was a great narcotics surveillance cop. I was lousy undercover. Never did quite get the hang of it. Just not good. It's not my bailiwick. How did you get trained for this? Because that's not a natural thing to do.
- [05:31]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, you know, I discovered it was. It was the one thing in my life I was good at. When I first got on with atf, I put in for, you know, as a Spanish speaking agent transferring over to hf, I put in for New York, Miami, and Los Angeles, thinking, you know, I would definitely get one of the three. And the HF put me in Savannah, Georgia. And, you know, I wasn't. Didn't even know anything about Savannah, But I was very lucky in that my partner, my first partner was a big time undercover guy. His name is Randy Beach. And within my first few days, because back then with atf, before you even went to the academy, they gave you your gun and badge and you were out in the street. And within my first few days, I was. I was doing undercover gun buys in. In fast food restaurants and alleyways. And once I started getting into it, you know, I knew I had found a home and I wanted to work my way on to kind of that national scene in the undercover world in the HF Enhanced Undercover program. And I did. I became obsessed with it.
- [06:34]
John J. Wiley
So backtracking back in the day when you guys started, you were put on the streets before you even went to the academy.
- [06:42]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, you got your badge right away and you gun, and we were out there. We were out there working. I was already, you know, making cases and had court dates before I even went to the ATF academy.
- [06:52]
John J. Wiley
That's amazing, because back in my day, and I consider myself a geezer by comparison to a lot of other people. You know, I started in police work in 1980, and yeah, we're given a badge and we went in academy. We didn't get issued gun till much later down the road. And it was definitely a unique learning experience. There was so much to absorb and take in. I thought the academy was hard, but the truth is, everything I thought I was good at when I graduated from the academy, I was not prepared for the streets. It was. It was a totally different ball of wax.
- [07:25]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, I mean, I really can relate to that. You know, when I first got on the job and got sent out to Los Angeles for my first six Months, they put you at the LA County Jail Central. And you know, my job was to sit there and to interview criminal aliens, foreign born nationals on the, on the release line to determine alienage and deportability. And that's when I really first got my introduction to those west coast gangs, to the Ms. 13, to the 18th street gang. And it's probably where I learned the most. Like you're saying, I didn't know anything about these west coast gangs and I wasn't prepared for that level of violence and the inhumanity that they possessed coming from these other countries. And it was an eye opener and I cherish those first six months even though no one was crazy about sitting in jail. You know, it was a real eye opener and it prepared me for the streets.
- [08:24]
John J. Wiley
Yeah, I don't think I could do jail work. And by the way, our brothers and sisters work corrections. If they weren't born a special breed, they developed skill sets to be a special breed because that takes a special person to be inside. Just the noise alone would drive me out of my mind.
- [08:41]
Lou Velosi
Unsung heroes, you know, they don't, they don't get any glory or recognition, but they truly are the unsung heroes. Every single person they deal with, you know, has obviously the potential for violence and they really, they really are the unsung heroes of law enforcement. You know what a job, you really have to be up for it every day. You can't even take an hour off on that job.
- [09:06]
John J. Wiley
No, there's no break at all. Before we go to a break, I want to backtrack. You said something very important, similar case of me. My background did not prepare me for what I experienced in law enforcement. What was your background?
- [09:20]
Lou Velosi
I grew up in the suburbs in New York. And you know, I had gone to college, went to college on a football scholarship and got out and I had, I had no direction at all. You know, I had a worthless economics degree and a terrible grade point average and I was working at a bank for about nine bucks an hour when I just had a chance meeting in the Bronx with a guy who I played ball with, asked me to come come down and visit and he was at his brother's house and his brother just happened to be a DEA agent and he had just gotten back from Panama and he was working undercover. He talked to me for about a half hour, we had a beer and you know, I knew right then that's what I wanted to do.
- [10:00]
John J. Wiley
And the rest you say is history. We're going to take a short break, we're Talking with Lou Velosi on a Law Enforcement show. Retired ATF agent, also author of the book. It is called Storefront Sting. An ATF Agent's Life Undercover. This is Law Enforcement Show. We're taking a short break. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. One of your top destinations on the Internet should be letradioshow.com that's our website. You'll find every episode of the show as a free podcast. They're all converted to a podcast after airing on radio. You'll also find great blog articles, op ed articles and much more all@letradioshow.com that's letradioshow.com don't forget it's all free at letradioshow.com College football never stops.
- [10:55]
ON3 Announcer
When college football news breaks, it breaks on on three. From the transfer portal to the playoff race to coaching changes, the sport is moving every single day. That's why college football fans turn to ON3, a trusted authority with real reporters and real communities built around the teams you care about. Find all of your favorite teams and join the community. Get the full picture@on3.com that's on and the number3.com.
- [11:24]
Safeway/Albertsons Announcer
Save on holiday essentials at Safeway at Albertsons this week, get USDA Choice Beef Bone in Roast for $6.97 per pound with digital coupon and minimum purchase of $50 or more in a single transaction excluding the price of the roast while supplies last. Limit one plus get broccoli, cauliflower, green beans or Brussels sprouts for 97 cents per pound with digital coupon. Limit six pounds and russet, red or yellow potatoes, yellow onions, yams or sweet potatoes are 99 cents per pound member price. Visit safewayalbertsons.com for more deals.
- [11:57]
John J. Wiley
Return conversation with Lou Velosi on the Law Enforcement Show. Lou is retired ATF agent. By the way, thank you for your service. Forgot to mention that he is also author of the book Storefront Sting. An ATF Agent's Life Undercover. Before we went to Break Lou, we started talking about your background, your career and you started with another federal agency, then gravitated towards atf. And by the way, the ATF in Baltimore had great reputation and they had some crazy parties. I think the one I remember the most or can't remember, the Elliot Ness night parties. They were phenomenal. Oh yeah, and those were different days, different times. I think a lot of what we did when we were younger you don't do anymore.
- [12:42]
Lou Velosi
Absolutely. Actually, those parties were actually outlawed and banned later on by atf. So that should tell you a little something about how great they were.
- [12:51]
John J. Wiley
I'm going to put it this way. I had a wild streak back in the day, and I was tame. I was mild compared to a lot of these other people.
- [12:59]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, when I first got introduced kind of on the national scene to, you know, who eventually became all my undercover brothers and sisters, man, it was, it was eye opening. I mean, these guys were crazy. And you know what always struck me about these guys as I, as I slowly got to know them and became a part of it, was how smart they were. I mean, you would be in a bar with these guys and it would look like, you know, some gang was in the bar. But these were. These were college educated street cops who were borderline genius at what they did.
- [13:33]
John J. Wiley
Yeah. And also heroic. It takes a lot of nerve to walk in a lion's den. It takes a lot of being able to think on your feet and think outside the box to be undercover. That's why I really wasn't that good at it.
- [13:46]
Lou Velosi
Well, you know, I. I always compare undercover work and great undercovers to comedians. I think there's a lot of similarities there. All the great comedians, if you think about it, incredible on their feet, their ability to ad lib, and all of them kind of have a little bit of a tragic life in their personal life. You know, there's kind of a. Almost a sadness, you know, behind the scenes. And, you know, that was most of the guys I worked with. And unfortunately, I kind of fell into it myself. But, you know, there was a lot of, A lot of tragedy and loss in the personal lives kind of behind the scenes of the great work that was done.
- [14:30]
John J. Wiley
And not to be belittle that point, so many people I've worked with in law enforcement, all the different federal agencies, and when I was detailed, the dea, there were no exception. There were Maryland State Police there, there were Anne Arundel county there, Baltimore County Police, Baltimore City Police, like myself, DEA agents. And I'd say half of them had tremendous issues going on at home. And one of the ways they dealt with it, Lou, was to throw themselves into their work.
- [14:57]
Lou Velosi
And that's absolutely what I did. I became consumed with it again. I had found what I was good at. And it absolutely, it became a healthy competition between us. There were guys like myself, Jay Dobbins, Chris Bayless, Richie Zayas, and, you know, we started making these huge cases, and you'd hear about a case that another guy did and how many defendants, how many guns off the street. And although you were Proud that that was a member of your team that did it. Deep down inside, you were like, well, you know, I can outdo that. You know, I can one up that. And it became sort of a healthy competition, work wise. And ATF certainly loved the results, but it was not very healthy for any of our personal lives, for sure.
- [15:46]
John J. Wiley
Well, one of the things, and I do know a little bit of Jay's story, and I want to have him on the show in the future. He paid a terrific price. I know you did, too. One of the sayings that it took me a long time to get, Lou, was that you can love this job, but it won't love you back.
- [16:03]
Lou Velosi
Boy, that's the truth, John.
- [16:04]
John J. Wiley
Yeah.
- [16:04]
Lou Velosi
You think you're important and, you know, you think that your office can't do without you. You find out real quick that you truly are just another number. And when you go, you will be replaced, you know, either by someone who can do it as good or better than you, or even not as good. And the agency or the department just moves on. And that's the truth.
- [16:26]
John J. Wiley
Yeah. And sometimes, I don't know if this ever crosses your mind. I sometimes wonder if any of those cats back there even know who I was.
- [16:35]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, at a point, you just become old. What's his name?
- [16:40]
John J. Wiley
The old geezer. You know, back to the conversation. I'm an old geezer. I survived.
- [16:44]
Lou Velosi
Absolutely. Which is why you kind of look back and, you know, for those of us that kind of put the job in front of their family and friends, it does lead to some regrets. You know, like I've said this before, I definitely was never up for the. For the father of the year or the husband of the Year award while I was, you know, in my career. And that's something that I'm certainly not very proud of.
- [17:07]
John J. Wiley
Well, I get it. And, you know, I paid a terrific price to my family. That as well. And before we get into your story, I'll just say this. I'm a much better husband and father than I was then. And I wasn't a bad guy. I wasn't a bad husband or father. I just didn't have the tools that they have nowadays that I have nowadays.
- [17:27]
Lou Velosi
I would totally agree with that, John. It's a. You know, I was. I was just kind of absent. And, you know, now that it's. Once you have a little perspective and you can sit back and look at, you know, I know I've become both a better husband and father, but it almost took that bottoming out, you know, for. For me. To realize what I was doing wrong.
- [17:46]
John J. Wiley
Did that happen after you retired or towards the end of your career?
- [17:51]
Lou Velosi
That happened at the end of my career. At the tail end.
- [17:54]
John J. Wiley
Were you one of these guys? And I say guys, that means men and women were like, everything's gone and my identity's gone, and everything's important is gone, and all I have to do is think and then become acutely aware of my shortcomings.
- [18:09]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, I, you know, I was identifying myself as an undercover agent. That's who I was. I was an undercover agent. It's what I did. I did it well, and it became my identity. I was believing in my own game, my own hustle at the expense of my family and my friends. And, yeah, it took a total crash for me to kind of remember who I really am and to rearrange my priorities.
- [18:39]
John J. Wiley
Well, I'm glad you did. I'm glad you made it through that hump, and I'm glad you're. If you're like me and many of the guests I've had on the show, we're still a work in progress. None of us has arrived. None of us is where we want to be, but we're further away from the guy we used to be. And I'll go back to what I said before. The guy before was not a bad guy. I don't want people to misconstrue what I'm saying. It's just not the guy I wanted to be.
- [19:02]
Lou Velosi
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.
- [19:04]
John J. Wiley
We talked about going undercover. One of the things that. And I always say this, I could be 85 years old. I could be the guy in the old folks home pushing a walker. And people say, shh, there's five. Oh, I'll always look like a cop no matter what I do do. And I would try to do undercover drug buys, and they dress me up and I'd have a pierced ear, which no one did back in the time. And I had all kinds of rules. I try to do. And I was never able to get anyone to ever sell me anything because I always look like a cop. And I just couldn't find a way to break beyond that.
- [19:37]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, I understand that. I. And you know, I can. I can always pick a cop out. And I think most people can. They're just. By the way, not even the way you look, but the way you carry yourself.
- [19:50]
John J. Wiley
The mean mug going on. My daughters will tell you jokes about that. This is law enforcement show. We're gonna take a short break. We're talking with Lou Velosi. And he is a retired ATF agent, also author of the book Storefront Sting An ATF Agent's Life Undercover this is Law Enforcement Show. We're taking a short break. We return. We're talking about undercover work and much more. One of the questions I get all the time is how can I show my support for law enforcement? We're all busy. We've got busy lives. But there's something oh so simple. You can with our Facebook page search for law Enforcement Talk Radio show Facebook page and when you see a post you agree with that resonates with you, share it. Especially episodes of the podcast. To do all that, just search for us on Facebook, look for law Enforcement Talk Radio show and be sure to.
- [20:41]
ON3 Announcer
Click like College Football Never Stops when college football news breaks, it breaks on on three. From the transfer portal to the playoff race to coaching changes, the sport is moving every single day. That's why college football fans turn to ON3, a trusted authority with real reporters and real communities built around the teams you care about. Find all of your favorite teams and join the community. Get the full picture@on3.com that's on and the number3.com.
- [21:13]
Safeway/Albertsons Announcer
Save on holiday essentials at Safeway and Albertsons this week, get USDA Choice Beef Bone in Roast for $6.97 per pound with digital coupon and minimum purchase of $50 or more in a single transaction excluding the price of the roast while supplies last. Limit one plus get broccoli, cauliflower, green beans or Brussels sprouts for 97 cents per pound with digital coupon. Limit six pounds and russet, red or yellow potatoes, yellow onions, yams or sweet potatoes are 99 cents per pound. Member price. Visit safewayalbertsons.com for more deals.
- [21:43]
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- [22:17]
John J. Wiley
Return a conversation with Lou Veloci on the Law Enforcement Show. Lou is retired ATF agent. That's Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, I believe. If I'm correct, he's also the book author of the Book Storefront Sting and ATF Agent's Life Undercover, written by Lou with Brian Whitney and forward by Javier Pena from Narco's Fame. Before I go further, I gotta thank you again for your service. I always forget to do that. And truth is, Lou, I've been thanked far more after I retired than I ever did on the job. Has that been the case for you?
- [22:48]
Lou Velosi
Absolutely. You know, I kind of live that invisible life while I was on the job. So, you know, even neighbors, people just didn't know what I did. But there wasn't. Yeah, there wasn't a whole lot of thanks going out while we were serving. But just like you, you know, especially since writing the book, you know, I've kind of received more than I deserve. I feel.
- [23:11]
John J. Wiley
I hear you, and I never quite know how to respond to that. So I've gotten better. I understand the polite thing to say, you're welcome, because I don't know what to say. So you gravitate in your career towards undercover work. And I get. You said earlier about the healthy competition. You wanted out this other agent who made a great case and everything else. I get that part. I want to do better, quite honestly. I wanted to be Superman. I wanted to be the one everybody looked up to. He's like, man, there's a cop over there. If you have a problem, that's the one you got to go see. I wanted to be that guy all the time. And I put unnatural pressure on me. You had the healthy competition. Did you find out in the end that you were putting unhealthy pressure on yourself?
- [23:52]
Lou Velosi
Oh, absolutely. I never said no. Anyone who needed any undercover work done, I didn't say no. I wouldn't turn it down. You know, I wanted to be the guy, the go to guy, as you're saying. And that's kind of how I fell into the storefront operations. I had an agent just call me and say, hey, we're. We're going to start up a storefront operation. We need an undercover. Do you want to do it? I didn't even know what a storefront operation was, and I said, yes, you were all in.
- [24:19]
John J. Wiley
And you had no idea what it's about?
- [24:21]
Lou Velosi
No. You know, I. I'd heard of the storefront, you know, the old lapd, NYPD had done some, mostly just to disrupt small time fencing operations and all that, but we were taking it to a whole nother level.
- [24:37]
John J. Wiley
I think there's an episode or two of Hill Street Blues where they did some of that fencing stuff, the storefront things. So, yes, One of the things I don't think people really fully grasp, it's one thing to do undercover work with drug enforcement, where it's organized crime with atf, and you're buying guns, you're selling guns or trying to get guns off street, wherever it might be. And when I say you're selling guns, I'll explain in a moment how that works. You're dealing with armed people and you're dealing with violent felons and criminals who are armed. You know right away you're going into bad situations. Yeah.
- [25:13]
Lou Velosi
One thing you know right away is there's going to be guns at the deal. Right. Whether, you know, they're being carried or they're part of the deal, there's going to be guns present. So, you know, that, that should definitely raise your awareness, you know, and if it doesn't, you shouldn't be doing the job. But we were. Our mandate was to deal with the armed violent offenders, you know, with the trigger pullers, the ones putting the guns on the street. So it kind of upped the game, you know, in all of our undercover transactions and our deals, because these were the most violent people on the streets that we were going after.
- [25:52]
John J. Wiley
And that takes, that takes a lot of nerve. It takes a lot of confidence in your skill sets that I can survive this.
- [25:58]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, it's, you know, the key to. And I have so many people ask me, you know, weren't you scared? Were you scared? And my answer is no. And that's not a, that's not a tough guy answer. I was doing what I loved. I was excited. This was exactly. I found, you know, how many people find exactly what they want to do it and do in life and then can succeed at it. I did that. So I never had nerves. I wasn't really scared. I was doing, doing what I love to do. Looking back now, you know, did I put myself in some situations that probably weren't very smart? Absolutely. But at the time I was doing really was. It was about that high.
- [26:40]
John J. Wiley
And you did these undercover storefronts for, was it about eight years?
- [26:44]
Lou Velosi
Yes. Yep. They had a good run. They ran from about 2007 to about 2014.
- [26:53]
John J. Wiley
And during that time period, how many, roughly how many guns did you take off the street from violent criminals? I'm not talking about the mom and pop second amendment law abiding citizens like you and me. I'm not talking about those folks at all. I'm talking about the bad people.
- [27:10]
Lou Velosi
You know, we only bought crime guns. So during that time, I did four operations myself. You know that I was the lead undercover case agent. Those four operations, which were all in Georgia. I bought over 1,000 guns in those four operations. And during that time, I flew all over the country. ATF had designated me the subject matter expert in undercover storefront investigations. And I, I went all over the country, west coast, east coast, up north, Southeast, and helped other agents start these operations or help them during the operation. And again, you know, thousands of more guns were purchased off the street during that time.
- [27:50]
John J. Wiley
And without giving away operational secrets, I don't want to do that. You have to have some fail safe measures when you have these undercover operations going on. I'm sure there was backup teams, there's other things, but really you're on your own, aren't you?
- [28:05]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, yeah. We say this all the time. Especially, you know, some of the areas we were in and with some of the, you know, physical barriers that were up, really the, your cover team was, was there basically to avenge your death if something happened. There was no way the guys coming in had bad intentions and they got the drop on you. There's no way your cover team saved me. They're basically there to avenge your debt because by the time something happens, there's no way they're in the door yet.
- [28:33]
John J. Wiley
No. And when you did the undercover stuff, you had no soft, soft body armor, you had no badge, you had none of that stuff. Did you? Never anything that can identify you. People need to understand this is something that Hollywood gets wrong 99% of time. Anytime you go undercover and said this, I'm lousy at it. When they go undercover, there's nothing that identifies you as being a cop. Is quite often with long term undercover, you have fake identities, fake driver's license as well, correct?
- [29:02]
Grainger Announcer
Yeah.
- [29:02]
Lou Velosi
In a long term infiltration, which I did more than I should have, probably, but, you know, you are a different person. You have your mind. Was Sal Nunziato. So I had Sal Nunziato. He had a driver's license in about three states. You know, Social Security card, credit history, everything. Magazine subscriptions, everything. If you googled him, if you had a private investigator, if you hired a private investigator to look up Sal Nunziato, he was a real person. And yes, there were times when not only during a long term infiltration could you. Did you obviously not carry a badge, but you didn't even carry a gun? Depending on who you were working with, there were times where having a gun on you wasn't even an option. So you're right about that. Hollywood gets it wrong all the time.
- [29:51]
John J. Wiley
During These undercover operations, did you have any moments where you're like, oh, no, this is going to end bad?
- [29:59]
Lou Velosi
I had a lot. You know, there were times, I can think of some in Chicago when I was. I was. It was a mafia infiltration that was also combined with the motorcycle gang times when I, you know, I was in the bad guy's place and he had, he had frequency interceptors. You know, there was. I couldn't even wear a wire, and there was about three or four levels of security to get through to get into this place. And basically when I was in there and I was in there with a whole bunch of mobsters, you know, I had no backup. No one could hear me. There was. There was literally no backup. And, you know, there were tense negotiations in time when I thought to myself, you know, if these guys, they either decide that they've dealt. Dealt with me enough and they know I'm showing up with $20,000 to buy a kilo, they're just going to take it and kill me. There is nobody coming to save me.
- [30:54]
John J. Wiley
You're totally on your own. That. That's a feeling I don't know. And I. Be honest, I don't relish. This is law enforcement show. We are talking with Lou Velosi, retired ATF agent, also authored book storefront Sting, An ATF agent's life undercover. We're gonna take a short break. When we return, we're gonna talk about the undercover work in the storefront stings and how undercover work began to affect as a personality and personal life. This is law enforcement show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. If you want to be a guest on the law enforcement talk radio show, simply contact us. It couldn't be easier. You can send us a message on Facebook. Look for and like the law enforcement talk radio show page or email jayetradio.com that's J A Y etradio.com College football never stops.
- [31:49]
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When college football news breaks, it breaks on on three. From the transfer portal to the playoff race to coaching changes, the sport is moving every single day. That's why college football fans turn to on three. A trusted authority with real reporters and real communities built around the teams you care about. Find all of your favorite teams and join the community. Get the full picture@on3.com that's on and the number3.com.
- [32:18]
Safeway/Albertsons Announcer
Save on holiday essentials at Safeway and Albertsons this week. Get USDA Choice Beef Bone in Roast for $6.97 pound with digital coupon and minimum purchase of $50 or more in a single transaction, excluding the price of the roast while supplies last. Limit one plus get broccoli, cauliflower, green beans or Brussels sprouts for 97 cents per pound with digital coupon. Limit six pounds and russet, red or yellow potatoes, yellow onions, yams or Sweet potatoes are 99 cents per pound. Member price. Visit safewayalbertsons.com for more deals.
- [32:47]
WSECU Announcer
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're the only credit union to be on the Forbes Best in State list five years running.
- [32:55]
John J. Wiley
Why?
- [32:56]
WSECU Announcer
Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Stop by, say hi, we're wsecu. Let's Credit union.
- [33:18]
Grainger Announcer
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- [33:53]
John J. Wiley
The current conversation with Lou Velosi on the Law Enforcement show. Louis retired ATF agent. He is also author of the book Storefront Sting. An ATF Agent's Life Undercover. This fascinating stuff we're talking about. Lou and I appreciate your service and spending part of your day talking about this because this stuff really is not easy to talk about. People may think it's the braggadocious, you know, I did this, I did that. You haven't talked about that. You've talked more about the human element of what it's like doing this. And that's part. It's not easy.
- [34:26]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, it's, you know, and that's a pretty common theme with most of the guys I worked with. You know, we're more likely to tell you about the mistakes we made than the successes that we had because there's no playbook really for undercover work. And there it's very gray. It's a gray area. It's, it's not black and white and you know, we learned through our mistakes, and there was a lot of mistakes made.
- [34:52]
John J. Wiley
Well, they always say the old saying is hindsight's 2020 in police work especially. So many things, I'm sure over your career, new policies, new training procedures that results of horrific things that happened in the past with other agents, other officers.
- [35:06]
Lou Velosi
Yeah. And. And that is kind of amplified with undercover work. And, you know, I'm going to borrow a line from my, my colleague from J. Dobbins, because it rings so too, because it's such a gray area working undercover. And literally, and I'm not being dramatic, you know, your life is on the line almost every time you're in an undercover deal. What happened during a lot of our long term infiltrations is we took the laws very seriously. All right. We never broke a law. You can't break a law. Unfortunately, we kind of considered HF policies to be more suggestions because, you know, we were. I would be happy. Not happy, but willing to answer to some supervisor who's never done any undercover work, you know, than I would be to get shot by a bad guy.
- [35:57]
John J. Wiley
So we had an old saying, I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by six.
- [36:02]
Lou Velosi
Yes, sir.
- [36:03]
John J. Wiley
That's the reality of the situation. And those rules, you know, we play within rules. And there's a lot of latitude you're given, but there's certain things you just don't do. And none of us stood for it. I can't speak for you, but none of us would tolerate those things. That corruption, other things just didn't happen because it was not something. The Serpico days ended a long time ago is what I'm getting at.
- [36:29]
Lou Velosi
That's right.
- [36:30]
John J. Wiley
What I do want to focus on is, and many of my guests say this, when you work in law enforcement for any length of time, you're going to get dinged up. I'm not just talking about physically. I've had more surgeries. You can shake a stick at more orthopedic surgeries. But there's certainly emotional damage, there's mental damage. For lack of better words, there's scars that people don't see. When you work undercover, it's got to be magnified 100 fold, without a doubt.
- [36:55]
Lou Velosi
Especially if you don't take a break, which I never did. And there's kind of two thoughts on that. You know, one thought as well. It's most healthy for a law enforcement officer who wants to work undercover. Let them do it for four or five years and get them out. You know, get them out, get them back to Reality give, you know, let them do something else. That wasn't the way with us, you know, because the other school of thought on that is that after four or five years, man, you just kind of, you really honing your skills. I mean, now you're really ready, you know, to do it. You've learned from your mistakes, you've learned from your experiences. And we never stopped. I couldn't stop. Even if they had told me to stop, I wouldn't have stopped. And you don't realize what that is doing to you, the effect it's having on you mentally until you crash and burn. And, you know, that's what it took for me. You don't realize how you're slowly slipping into that undercover Persona and it's kind of taken over a little bit from your real Persona. And you're going to find out the.
- [38:01]
John J. Wiley
Hard way, did you ever feel like, who am I? I'm not the guy I used to be. I don't know who I am.
- [38:09]
Lou Velosi
I did, you know, and my, my wife would check me at times and say, listen, you know, I married, you know, I married a cop, a college educated guy. I didn't marry some gangster, you know, so stop acting like a gangster. But it, you know, very hard to turn that switch on and off, you know, very hard to be gone for a few months and get a small break and come back home and, you know, act like the person you're supposed to be and you were, and then slip right back into role when you're done and go right back in so the lines get blurry.
- [38:43]
John J. Wiley
I'll be totally honest with you, Lou. I have a deeper appreciation for people that do long term undercover, whether it be deep cover, because there's different phases of undercover work. There's occasional like drug buy, those sorts of things. And when I said earlier in the conversation about selling guns, one of the biggest ploys we had was, was an officer was posing as a drug dealer and he would sell his service revolver or service weapon to guy like me. And the so called other drug dealers think, oh, if he's selling guns, he must be okay, so I can sell him pot or coke or meth or whatever it might be. That's what we did. It was something we did often. So I just want to clarify that because I'm sure people thinking Miami Vice and all this other stuff, and to me that may occur somewhere, but that's, that's not the reality.
- [39:28]
Lou Velosi
Yeah, the reality of undercover work is so different from, you know, what you see on TV and what you Thought it was, you know, I went into a thinking, you know, and you said Miami Vice and, you know, we all watched it. And so I went into it thinking, you know, it was going to be yachts and supermodels and mansions and, you know, in reality, it was projects and trailer parks and craft.
- [39:54]
John J. Wiley
Yeah, yeah, I'm still waiting for the million dollar loft apartments. Where. Where are those deals?
- [40:00]
Lou Velosi
Right? Yeah. Just, you know, that's. That's just not reality. And once you get immersed in that world and it is a dirty world, it really is, then your survival skills take over. You have to act a certain way, you have to do certain things to survive and thrive in that world. You have to. You know, the greatest under undercover skill of all is to make other people. And I mean bad guys when I say other people want to be a part of your hustle. And that's what I did. I showed them what my hustle was. You know, I was a gun trafficker. I would buy guns off the street crime guns. I would bring them up to my mobster buddies up in New York and sell them at a huge profit. And that's what really happens in the world. That's gun trafficking. And you have to have the ability to make people see that and want to be a part of your hustle, and that'll open up the whole world to the criminal element. Once you can do that, did these.
- [40:54]
John J. Wiley
Skills that you acquired doing that help you transition into civilian life and then eventually writing your book?
- [41:01]
Lou Velosi
I don't know about civilian life. I found out real quick there's not a whole lot of appeal to the private sector for a retired undercover agent. You know, those skills don't transfer over to the private sector very well. But when it came to writing the book. Yes. You know, I found out real quick that I'm not a writer. You know, we write police reports and investigative reports. And when I first wrote my book, that's how it read. And nobody other than me and you, nobody wants to read that, right? I went through five co authors, I kissed five frogs till I found the prince. His name was Brian Whitney, and he was able to take my story and make it very readable, make it a page turner, a quick read and exciting.
- [41:50]
John J. Wiley
And the name of the book is Storefront Sting.
- [41:53]
Lou Velosi
An ATF agent's life undercover.
- [41:56]
John J. Wiley
You know, just time alone. Right there, Lou, is like. It grabs. It kind of smacks you in the mouth. It's like, I gotta check this out.
- [42:02]
Lou Velosi
Yeah. You know, no one's ever written about these operations. These operations, they cease to exist anymore. Pretty much Congress shut them down. And we had such an incredible run. And so we took so many guns off the street. Yes, we did a lot of drugs. Took a lot of drugs off the street. But that is, as you know, that's just kind of sticking your finger in a hole in the dam. The guns, you know, I always looked at it this way. Every one gun I bought off the street in an undercover deal from some convicted felon or from some gang banger, you know, how many lives potentially have you saved? You know, how many lives could that one gun have taken? So to take that many guns off the street was a real big deal to me.
- [42:43]
John J. Wiley
And where can people get more information about your book and maybe contact you?
- [42:47]
Lou Velosi
So the best way is just to Google Storefront Sting and it'll come right up. It's on Amazon. I'm proud to say it was. It has been the Amazon's number one best seller. All right. In the law enforcement genre, under new releases, it's kind of bouncing back and forth with another guy who a cop who was involved in the Breonna Taylor situation. So if you Google storefronts thing, the Amazon link will come up. It's available at, you know, Target, Walmart, a couple other places. I have a website, louvalozzi.com l o u v a l o z e dot com and I'm available for public speaking. I have a presentation. I'm going out to Vegas next month to do it with the narcos guys. And I'm looking forward to getting on the road and starting to promote that.
- [43:41]
John J. Wiley
Do me a favor, when you're in Vegas, tell them I said hello. And by the way, thanks so much for being a guest on the show. Very much appreciated.
- [43:47]
Lou Velosi
Thank you, sir. It's been an honor.
- [43:49]
John J. Wiley
I'd like to thank our guests for coming on the Law Enforcement Talk Radio Show. The Law Enforcement Talk Radio show is a nationally syndicated weekly radio show broadcast on numerous AM&FM radio stations across the country. We're always adding more affiliate stations. If you enjoyed the podcast version of the show, which is always free, please do me a favor and tell a friend or two or three. I'll be back in just a few days with another episode of Law Enforcement Talk Raider show and Podcast. Until then, this is John J. Wiley. See ya.
- [44:25]
ON3 Announcer
College football never stops. When college football news breaks, it breaks on on three. From the transfer portal to the playoff race, to coaching changes, the sport is moving every single day. That's why college football fans turn to on three. A trusted authority with real reporters and real communities built around the teams you care about. Find all of your favorite teams and join the community. Get the full picture@on3.com that's on and the number3.com.
- [44:56]
WSECU Announcer
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're the only credit union to be on the Forbes Best in State list five years running. Why? Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do, from the Olympic Mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being because what we really do best is invest in you. Stop by, say hi, we're wsecu.
- [45:25]
Safeway/Albertsons Announcer
Let's Credit union Save on holiday essentials at Safeway and Albertsons this week. Get USDA Choice Beef Bone in roast for $6.97 per pound with coupon and minimum purchase of $50 or more in a single transaction, excluding the price of the roast while supplies last. Limit one plus get broccoli, cauliflower, green beans or Brussels sprouts for 97 cents per pound with digital coupon limit six pounds and russet, red or yellow potatoes, yellow onions, yams or sweet potatoes are 99 cents per pound. Member price. Visit safewaylbertsons.com for more deals.
- [45:58]
WSECU Announcer
If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [46:28]
Lou Velosi
If you like the show, please take.
- [46:30]
John J. Wiley
A moment to rate, review and subscribe.
- [46:33]
Lou Velosi
It really does help the show to grow.
- [46:35]
Safeway/Albertsons Announcer
Thank you for listening.