Franklin D. Roosevelt, l’allié 5/5 : Mourir juste avant la victoire

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Franklin D. Roosevelt, l’allié 5/5 : Mourir juste avant la victoire"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Le Cours de l'histoire
• Host/Author: France Culture
• Description: Mieux comprendre quotidiennement le lien étroit qui nous unit au passé.
• Schedule: Du lundi au vendredi de 9h à 10h.
• Episode: Franklin D. Roosevelt, l’allié 5/5 : Mourir juste avant la victoire
• Release Date: July 20, 2025

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Introduction

In the final installment of the five-part series on Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR), "Mourir juste avant la victoire," France Culture delves into the complex decisions and pivotal moments that defined Roosevelt’s leadership during the latter stages of World War II. Hosted by France Culture, the episode features insights from historians, commentators, and firsthand accounts, painting a comprehensive picture of FDR's strategies, challenges, and legacy.

FDR’s Dilemma During Wartime

The episode begins with an exploration of the critical decisions FDR faced once World War II erupted globally. Historian and commentator discuss the balance between focusing on defeating Germany in Europe versus addressing the unexpected aggression in the Pacific.

Quote:
Historian/Commentator (00:37): “Once war broke out, he faced this dilemma. How does Roosevelt get the American people involved in the European war?”

FDR's decision to support the invasion of North Africa was a significant and controversial move, especially given that the region was under the control of the Vichy French government. This strategic choice was made amidst fears expressed by figures like Marshall and the prolonged resistance from Hitler, who continued to surprise and challenge Allied forces.

The Invasion of North Africa

Rebecca provides additional context on FDR’s strategic maneuvers, emphasizing the complexities of Allied operations in North Africa.

Quote:
Rebecca (05:41): “In September, all of a sudden we're fighting.”

This section highlights the rapid escalation of hostilities and the necessity for decisive action to engage Axis forces directly, leading to the eventual invasion of France in the spring of 1944.

FDR’s Interactions with Key Figures

Henri Morgenthau discusses the interaction between FDR and Jan Karski, a young Polish resistance fighter who played a crucial role in conveying the realities of the Warsaw Ghetto to the United States.

Quote:
Henri Morgenthau (06:06): “Karski managed to reach Poland and the United States, meeting with Roosevelt for about an hour.”

Despite the brevity of their meeting, this encounter was pivotal in shaping U.S. awareness and policy regarding the Holocaust.

The Strategic Bombing Debate

The episode delves into the controversial topic of strategic bombing, particularly the proposal to bomb concentration camps.

Quote:
Henri Morgenthau (22:23): “Would the bombing have been successful? I know the answer because it wasn't true.”

The discussion reveals the internal debates within the U.S. government, highlighting the reluctance of certain departments to pursue aggressive tactics, even in the face of dire humanitarian crises.

FDR’s Leadership and Public Addresses

Franklin D. Roosevelt’s public speeches are analyzed to understand his leadership style and the messages he aimed to convey to the American populace during wartime.

Quote:
Franklin D. Roosevelt (15:32): “Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States... I ask you to join with me in prayer.”

Quote:
Franklin D. Roosevelt (17:09): “They fight to end conflict. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise among all thy people.”

These speeches encapsulate FDR’s efforts to maintain public morale and justify the extensive military engagements required to secure victory.

Relationships with Allied Leaders

The intricate relationships between FDR and other Allied leaders, particularly Stalin, are scrutinized to understand the geopolitical dynamics that influenced post-war strategies.

Quote:
Historian/Commentator (25:06): “Roosevelt was very supportive of the idea of a Jewish state...”

FDR’s cautious yet supportive stance towards the creation of a Jewish state is contrasted with his apprehensions about Soviet intentions, laying the groundwork for the emerging Cold War tensions.

The Impact of FDR’s Death

Henri Morgenthau reflects on the profound implications of Roosevelt’s untimely death just before the anticipated victory in the war.

Quote:
Henri Morgenthau (35:02): “Franklin Roosevelt says that the Germans should be punished...”

The analysis suggests that FDR’s absence may have altered the course of post-war policies, particularly regarding the Cold War and decolonization efforts.

Eleanor Roosevelt’s Influence

Eleanor Roosevelt’s role and influence are highlighted, showcasing her as a formidable figure in her own right, advocating for civil rights and humanitarian issues.

Quote:
Eleanor Roosevelt (45:09): “I feel responsible... engaged in issues of the day.”

Her proactive stance and willingness to express her views significantly contributed to the progressive agenda of the Roosevelt administration.

The New Deal Legacy

The podcast touches upon the enduring legacy of FDR’s New Deal policies, addressing both their immediate impact and long-term effects on American society and governance.

Quote:
Historian/Commentator (47:07): “The New Deal was extremely popular and starts to unravel in the 1980s.”

The discussion underscores the pivotal role of the New Deal in reshaping federal government responsibilities and its influence on subsequent economic policies.

FDR’s Personal Struggles

Michael Otten Riff provides a personal glimpse into FDR’s character, highlighting his resilience in the face of personal and professional challenges.

Quote:
Michael Otten Riff (54:34): “He found it hard to sleep and one of the ways he overcame was as a child he could picture in his mind getting on the slit riding it to the bottom in his imagination.”

This segment humanizes Roosevelt, presenting him not just as a leader but also as a person grappling with the immense pressures of his office.

Conclusion

The episode concludes by reflecting on FDR’s enduring legacy and the critical “what-ifs” surrounding his untimely death. It posits that Roosevelt’s visionary leadership and strategic decisions were instrumental in shaping the outcome of World War II and the subsequent geopolitical landscape.

Quote:
Historian/Commentator (36:58): “He was very supportive of the idea of a Jewish state...”

FDR’s commitment to justice, liberation, and building a post-war order continues to resonate, ensuring his place as one of the most influential leaders in American history.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Historian/Commentator (00:37): “Once war broke out, he faced this dilemma. How does Roosevelt get the American people involved in the European war?”
• Henri Morgenthau (06:06): “Karski managed to reach Poland and the United States, meeting with Roosevelt for about an hour.”
• Franklin D. Roosevelt (15:32): “Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States... I ask you to join with me in prayer.”
• Henri Morgenthau (22:23): “Would the bombing have been successful? I know the answer because it wasn't true.”
• Franklin D. Roosevelt (17:09): “They fight to end conflict. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise among all thy people.”
• Eleanor Roosevelt (45:09): “I feel responsible... engaged in issues of the day.”
• Michael Otten Riff (54:34): “He found it hard to sleep and one of the ways he overcame was as a child he could picture in his mind getting on the slit riding it to the bottom in his imagination.”

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Final Thoughts

"Franklin D. Roosevelt, l’allié 5/5 : Mourir juste avant la victoire" offers a nuanced exploration of FDR’s final years, shedding light on his strategic acumen, personal struggles, and the profound impact of his presidency on both the war effort and the shaping of the modern world. Through expert commentary and poignant reflections, the episode underscores the complexities and enduring significance of Roosevelt’s legacy.

Transcript

[Franklin D. Roosevelt]

France Kiltier.

[Historian/Commentator]

Crossing Franklin Delano Roosevelt the ally.

[Rebecca]

Grand Traverse Franklin Roosevelt Lallier.

[Historian/Commentator]

So once war broke out, he faced this dilemma. Once we had defeated Germany we would deal but of course we were attacked in the Pacific and all of a sudd so he had to figure out a way to get the United States. And you know, it was a very difficult dilemma because they all recognize that an invasion so how does Roosevelt get the American people involved in the European war ultimately was to invade North Africa Very very controversial Africa was controlled by the Vichy French government allow it was a decision that he made and he made much as Marshall had feared the much longer than anybody expected Adolf Hitler surprised everybody lasted a long time in May of 43 when it was to France So they compromised with a kind of series of opportunity. And one the first one was September. In September, all of a sudden we're fighting.

[Franklin D. Roosevelt]

I had no chance my initial statement to tell you Mr. President listen to me well you don't speak to the president of the United States.

[Rebecca]

Rebecca her.

[Henri Morgenthau]

Building Jan Karski was a young man I think he was 27 or 28 and had linked up with had snuck into the Warsaw ghetto and witnessed things approaching people who would then be taken Karski managed Poland to the United States with Roosevelt for about an hour. That's what the United States the meeting did go well enough Henri Morganso.

[Historian/Commentator]

And.

[Henri Morgenthau]

When Karski met with Frankfurter I don't believe and so that was something that Carson.

[Historian/Commentator]

And it's as a consequence of this that in a row there has to be an invasion of France in the spring of 1944. And when he meets with Stalin in Are you serious or you're not Stalin famous He named a commander and one consequence of that was that.

[Henri Morgenthau]

At one point in December 1943 one Treasury Department official sneaks department was learned internal records was so the State Department has a reputation anti immigrant and isolation then. And so the Treasury Department was incredibly and in the memo they say we the United States we say we're trying to help but this power whether their State Department officials Morgenthau and two members of his with that present it to Roosevelt and they also tasked with rescuing Jews and Roosevelt lesikut so he signs the executive order it becomes official. This agency is staffed almost entirely by is really rare for I think government officials which is that these private organizations so they talk and so the Roosevelt administration had to depend on it was that was a really powerful thing a lot of Jewish organizations had. In the final year of the war the US approved the equivalent of almost 200 packages and sent them into concentration. Take advantage of the fact that the Allies were likely to win. Switzerland and Sweden, the United States, this whole time the Allies are going to win. You can get on our good side now if you help us by protesting what the Nazis are doing.

[Franklin D. Roosevelt]

Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States. My fellow Americans. Last night when I spoke with you about the fall of Rome, I knew at that moment, in another and greater operation, it has come to pass with success. And so in this poignant hour I ask you to join with me in prayer.

[Historian/Commentator]

And let's not forget the one person who was pushing for the misunderstood fears of Germany. We don't trust the Russians.

[Franklin D. Roosevelt]

Almighty God, our sons pride of our nation this day mighty endeavor and our civilization Lead them straight. They will be sore tried until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame will be shaken with the violences of war. They fight not for the lust of conscience. They fight to end conflict. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise among all thy people. Some will never return. Embrace these Father and receive them thy heroic servant into thy kingdom.

[Historian/Commentator]

Repeat.

[Franklin D. Roosevelt]

Come and comment.

[Military Analyst]

So what I have here one box out of what this one is July 1st through the D day invasion began and the American then out this map is the situation treated July 13th and July 14th. And you can see how far they've advanced. This is the line.

[Franklin D. Roosevelt]

Well, as Kirsten was describing, the left side is Cherbourg. And these would be the time a report came in. So the next would be whatever the situation was. So for example, 39:47 morning of the 12th of July, the division progress en direction du Sud west La Haye and Le Bre. Later the same day the division northern outskirts the village of Ile was also.

[Henri Morgenthau]

The camp could have been bombed. American planes were flying over. That is an the question I think that is trickier is would the bombing have been successful? I know the answer to because it wasn't true. And I also know department which was responsible for saying no. So they did not study on don't look into.

[Historian/Commentator]

Elucondi Damal.

[Rebecca]

De la Maison Blanche.

[Songwriter/Artist]

Just hand me my old Martin for soon I will be starting back to dear old Charleston far away. St Roosevelt's been re elected will not be neglected. We've got Franklin D. Roosevelt back again, back again, back again. We've got Franklin D. Roosevelt back again. Since Roosevelt's been elected moonshine liquor's been corrected. We've got legal wine, whiskey, beer and gin.

[Rebecca]

When he went to Yalta at the.

[Historian/Commentator]

End sentimental man and there aren't a lot of examples. I don't think Rose Roosevelt Roosevelt was He sees your whole tendency to think of it as the Poles but the truth is they didn't when you look at Roosevelt's relationship with Stalin it's a very important he's thinking about the possibility of a third world war and he doesn't want to see that happen. And you know I'm not trying to downplay the impression but the bulk of the not even cross the Rhine Stalin was actually upset. You know further along you know we think we don't want the Russians. You know these are. These are Eleanor Roosevelt Another unanswered question that is a very difficult you know Roosevelt so you know even though in the beginning of Tokyo and so forth very violent air campaigns. Having said that however you know I think that Roosevelt may have engaged in what at the time again many people don't write on it and others nuclear arms race after the war. And there was a lot of conversation sort of underneath Roosevelt you know these weapons became so Churchill was furious about this. Churchill saw the atomic monopoly the United States had as specifically said that but it also said that's where that phrase comes from. And so it's conceivable to me that and Roosevelt had before using it. So I think it's consistent he wouldn't have dropped it would be in as a commander in chief having to invade I think as a means to end the war. So I'm not saying that he would have categorically refused but I do think it's conceivable that there would have been he really did die at a very inopportune moment what happened after but also with respect to what happened in Vietnam. You know I think if Roosevelt had ended up in war ii Truman made some very critical including a meeting with he basically invited him much more stringent. Remember when Roosevelt became he didn't want the United States to be a colonial power and he was very anti colonial very upset about British colonial again circumstances ultimately more and more difficult for him to resist. You know would have planned for some kind of independence down the road. It's a tragedy but you know Ho Chi Minh declared the we're supporting the Vietnamese struggle against the Japanese.

[Henri Morgenthau]

Franklin Roosevelt says that the Germans should be punished. FDR with Morgan he have gone another way. And so.

[Historian/Commentator]

When we think about the cold war I think it's important to recognize that Stalin in the it's the decision of the United States to reopen couldn't Understand this, you know, why this power that so devastated our country this is what leads to all these tensions. So I think if Roosevelt had lived conceivable that.

[Henri Morgenthau]

I think again Roosevelt had ideas and liked seeing the world as a change the pieces around. But I don't think he necessarily vision for what a Jewish state would or could.

[Historian/Commentator]

He was very supportive of the idea of a Jewish and that doesn't necessarily mean in 1945 you know, here he is travels all the way to Yalta continue this what I call his last. This is really interesting because remember the United States. The United States. The United States can't afford every one of his agencies the State Department. It's a bad idea in the Middle East. One man said, you know, it would be useless. But of course as he told and he talked about bringing out a map. So it was a fascinating experience. The king arrived Bedouin tent on top of the know made his way over to engaged conversation. The king was elderly like and said he felt like a twin brother in his disability. And Roosevelt and Roosevelt gave it to the king very interesting encounter. They definitely had a certain Roosevelt tried time and time again he said I feel kind of responsible. Then he you know again anxious not to have to speak. And the king of course Roosevelt tried all kept pressing talked about the fact that through irrigation and so forth. But the king was a failure as predicted it would be when he got. It's interesting. And what's really interesting is once Roosevelt dies you know, every time comes from his desk and all of a sudden he's not there anymore. So it's almost as if they had to Roosevelt they had to recreate the institution. I mean it made the president and Roosevelt didn't make those institutions permanent. So we don't know what he would have done once the war ended.

[Civil Rights Advocate]

During World War II many of them they were mobilizing for FDR to get advocating for things like civil rights. And so there's this progressive agenda that becomes a liability for these politically inclined celebrities. It's really debated as to what is the role of and there's a lot of concern about who and what will also embedded within those Congressional.

[Rebecca]

Hollywood.

[Historian/Commentator]

The.

[Rebecca]

Senator McCarthy de la Commission des Activites Anti American.

[Henri Morgenthau]

Madame Roosevelt.

[Rebecca]

Communist.

[Eleanor Roosevelt]

She had put away caution, her caution. It wasn't that she was brash or what she said. She thought carefully about the impact of her words but she felt that she felt to express herself her involvement and her intensity in that involvement. I think I felt it by osmosis. And I wonder she recognized some of Herself rather quiet myself but I was what was going on around into the grown ups and so I I understood that this was a lesson legacy who I'm named after this is who in this family we are engaged in issues of the day that it our lives.

[Rebecca]

Non le journal denouement.

[Historian/Commentator]

There's a common conception you know people say the New Deal didn't end unemployment but what they fail to realize is that world too justified came from federal Spain was very shocking surprising to the generation. So there are times I think for the federal government to step in. You know the New Deal was extremely popular and the kind of starts to unravel in the 1980s and so we do get and we do get even the democratic is creating economic challenges that the American business community does not deserve. And so you know ironically one of the most important Glass Steagall act did two very important things. First it established the federal deposit federal in other words you need corporations willing to take and passed which made it lead investment banks to merge together and this of course created nine collapsed and we did have this enormous problem because of this the decades prior to 2000.

[Franklin D. Roosevelt]

Democrats have had a problem in the last 50 years but accelerated in the.

[Historian/Commentator]

Last.

[Franklin D. Roosevelt]

A lot of this happened because.

[Historian/Commentator]

Of the illiberalism.

[Rebecca]

To both.

[Historian/Commentator]

You know both our critical and our creative faculties.

[Michael Otten Riff]

Thank you.

[Rebecca]

Michael Otten Riff.

[Michael Otten Riff]

In the early days of FDR's presidency he faced a lot of challenges and the stock market had lost the crisis. He found it hard to sleep and one of the ways he overcame was as a child and he could picture in his mind getting on the slit riding it to the bottom in his imagination.

[Henri Morgenthau]

Firing Party Fire 3 Falling Party Party.

[Historian/Commentator]

Attempt 2 Stand.

[Rebecca]

Ready.

[Historian/Commentator]

Ready A Ready A Ready Presentation SA Sam.

[Rebecca]

Franklin Roosevelt Lallier avec Geoffrey Ward Ivan Abokov William Harris David Woolner Anne Roosevelt Michael Kazin Rebecca Herbalding Michael ottenreith Kirsten Carter Catherine Bronwyn Elivois De Clara Chevalier Lise Combe Laurent Lederer Joachim Sananger Evelyn Guimara Francois Loriquet Prise de Son Benjamin Tuot Valentin Azan Zielensky Traduction Celeste de Carlin Marine Elgon Recherche Ina Sabine d' Iron Mixage Valentin Azan Sielensky Unemission de Judite Perignon Realize Pargaille Giron.

[Henri Morgenthau]

SA.