Hey everybody. We are back. The three Amigos. We're excited to be talking to you today about Chris, what are we talking about? Today we're going to finish up followership on episode 18. We began discussing our two-part discussion of followership, and we ended with discussing Kelly typology of followership.

Gotcha. Wayne, how are you? Good, man. How are you? Living the life, my brother, trying to get my blood pressure down. But other than that, I'm doing good. Everybody else. Good. Chris doing great. Good Jayden. That's our dog. This with it. She might hear her snoring. She's our mascot. We love her.

All right, let's get rolling. All right. So the last time we ended with Kelly typology, and I'll give a quick review of that. Kelly typology is the most recognized form of followership. It comes from Robert Kelly in his book, "The Power of Followership". And he argues that the power of followers usually goes unrecognized. Would you guys agree with that?

Sure. Wayne, what do you think. Yes.

He also argues that followers are a vital part of leadership. And he emphasized that the motivations of followers and their behavior is used to shape leadership and. The goal of Kelly's typology is to become what's called an exemplary follower. Gotcha. And it's important that we put this down in later as we finish this up and at the end, we'll have some scripture, but the main goal for us as Christians is to follow Christ.

Absolutely. We follow him as our example, we understand the importance of being a follower. And I don't know if we teach that enough. I think sometimes. We we do the old lead follower get out of my way and I get it, but I think we need to follow. And sometimes we don't teach that enough in the church. So you're absolutely right.

Just a second thought there, we don't teach much about following it all. We'll teach you how to be a good leader. But how to be a good follower that never comes up. Never an ultimately. That's our calling is to follow Christ. What do you think Wayne? I think a good leader has to be a follower.

Then we got to follow somebody. Absolutely. Amen. Amen. So according to Kelly. Followers have two styles. And this is again what we went over in the last episode. They have independent and critical thinking or their depended and uncritical thinking. And of those two dimensions, you get five follower types.

The passive followers, these are the sheep and they look to the leader for everything, both the direction and motivation. And you get conformist. Those were yes, people. And they're always on the leader side and they still look to the leader for guidance and direction. Then you get the alienated followers. These people think for themselves, and they have a lot of negative energy and they're usually always against the leader.

The fourth type is a pragmatic followers and these are the fence sitters. They support the status quo, but they don't get on board until everybody else does. And the last is the exemplary followers. These are the star followers. These are our goals. What's another name for an exemplary follower, Dave.

That's a good question. Have you ever had someone that you consider to be a really good follower? You are really close to them and you may even call them friend. Sure absolutely. I've got a verse for us here. This is in John 15:15. Jesus says no longer do I call you servants for the servant does not know what his master is doing, but I've called you friends for all that I ever heard from my father. I have made known to you.

That's good. One of the things that I want to make sure we get across. This isn't being passive aggressive. This is actually following someone you believe in. And when you do that and when you have people do that for you, ultimately I think Wayne. Put it really good. Just a few minutes ago. We're all following something. We are.

And if we're following ourself, we're in destruction mode. And so we need to really think on who we're following while we're following and how do we. I guess I get word as exemplify that to other people, show that to other people and to be the follower of the one that you believe in. I agree with that.

Oh, there you go. Take care of Palo's. It's been rough. When the day I got there, though, I'm back. He's back.

Okay. Based on those five types. We know that exemplary or effective followers have four qualities. Number one they self-manage and think for themselves. Number two, they have a strong commitment to the organizational goals. Number three, they build competence and they master their job skills. Number four, they're ethical and courageous.

They may even dare to challenge the leader. And. There's a correct time to do that. And there's an incorrect time to do that. Ephesians four 15 tells us. Rather speaking the truth in love. We are to grow up in every way into him, who is the head into Christ. So you've got to do that in love. Yeah. And if we understand.

Every commandment from Jesus talks about loving each other. And honestly, I don't know if we do it well

I agree with that completely. The problem with it is we're scared. And I know every one of us is listening to this. At some point you've been hurt by someone else. And when you get hurt, That hurt comes across in a situation where you don't want to follow anybody because you're afraid you're gonna get hurt again.

That's true. Here's the reality. And this is what we got. Understand the problem wasn't us. It was the person we were following. And if we're not following the right one, then we're never going to get on the right boat. And so if I'm following Jesus first, and then I follow people who love Jesus, then I'm on the right path. That doesn't mean they won't let me down because they will.

Ask yourself, this situation in church work or anything else? The people that I'm leading or the people I'm following, do they love Jesus with reckless abandonment? And if they don't, then you're going to have issue. That's it. What do you think? It's interesting because. I don't work in a church. I don't know. That there are a lot of people. That I work with that follow Jesus. But that doesn't give me. An out. True. To not be. That example. That makes sense. A hundred percent, right?

And I think accountability is a big thing there. I think. I'm accountable to Jesus and Jesus alone. And so where no matter what I'm at or where I'm at, I got to exemplify him and show him because people need to know about him. You know why? Because he's incredible. Amen man changed my mind. He changed my life and I know that he can change anyone else that I get to lead. And so if I'm leading them, I'm leading them to Jesus. True. No, that's so true.

That is so true and it was beautiful. And ultimately that's what leadership is Chris? Whether you're doing it like where Wayne is or where you are, or even at a church where I am we're leading people, hopefully that they see Jesus in us. Amen. And if they don't, I want to challenge you as leaders reevaluate your leadership because you're messing it. That is our number one goal. You're exactly right.

That's good stuff I feel like I need to be writing that down Dave. It stuff. It took me a minute to get warmed up right now. We're rolling here. Off you go. I don't know about all that, but I'm trying.

So let's talk about engagement and followers have different levels of engagement, and in fact, there's five levels. And as you can see, the engagement matters quite a bit with followers. The first level of followers are completely isolated and they're unengaged.

I'm going to put you on the spot, Dave, if you were to give a percentage of average church goers how many people would you say are. Completely unengaged. That's fair. Not at Christchurch case anyone from.

But the other churches. Honestly sometimes This is horrible to say, I've read things that say 20% sometimes. I can honestly say with Christ church, I feel like we have heavy involvement. 70, 80% easy and we're working on everyone to get involved in the church .

Again, people don't want to engage in what you're doing. Sometimes engagement's a good word that I don't know. We, if we understand if we're engaging with people, it means we're helping them to see what we believe. Yes. And so that's an important thing in my life. And if I'm messing that, so the average church, I don't know. I think the churches that I've been, I was at one church where I was lucky. If it was 10%, I've been one church where I'm currently at, where it feels like sometimes it's 90%. So you just don't know.

90%. I feel like we do really well if I'm honest with you, but I do think I do. Definitely. I still think we were missing people and one of the things Jeff Gaines and I do who's. Leading our lead pastor. And I worked with him. One of the things that we try to do in everything that we do is how do we get people more involved? How do we get them to come on Sunday nights? How do we do stuff?

That would help them see how important Christ is in their life. And if we're missing that we're missing everything. You're right. One of the ways that we do that at the church. Is when you keep talking about engagement. It's not like in term, it's a way of life. And the focus is literally just sitting down.

Across from somebody. And letting them. Let you experience what they go through. That's good. Very good. It's really good. And for example, like we have upward Wayne and I got the hangout. I'm not going in details about what happened.

Oh, my aching back. Let us pray. If you ever want to really find out how much he loves Jesus what's fifth and sixth grade basketball game and watch the parents aft...