← Lead With AI
Lead With AI
Beyond Swipes: How HeyLina Uses AI and Emotional Intelligence to Fix Modern Dating
Beyond Swipes: How HeyLina Uses AI and Emotional Intelligence to Fix Modern Dating
Loading summary
Transcript75 lines
- [00:00]
A
Today's conversation is about dating, but not in the way most apps approach it. Instead of optimizing for swipes, chemistry or surface level compatibility, this episode asks a deeper question. Why do we choose who we choose? And what patterns are we repeating? Without realizing it, I'm joined by Brianna Long, who is the creator of Helena.
- [00:26]
B
An AI powered platform designed to help people gain insight into their attachment styles.
- [00:32]
A
Relationship behaviors and emotional drivers before they look for their next partner. Because maybe we don't need another dating app that just matches faces. Maybe we need tools that help us understand ourselves. First, let's get into it. Welcome to lead with AI. I'm Dr. Tamara Nall. Each episode brings you behind the scenes conversations with brilliant minds advancing AI across the federal government. Together, we're exploring the projects and innovations, modernizing public service, and creating meaningful change for the American people. Let's get started.
- [01:14]
B
Hello, everyone.
- [01:15]
A
How are you?
- [01:16]
B
It's your host of lead with AI, Dr. T. And I am so thankful that each of you comes here every week to hear about our guests and their wonderful products. We're also very, very thankful that we hit number one in technology on Apple podcasts in June. Thank you. Thank you, Brianna. And then we also are a W3GO winner for interviews and guests. And so I'm just so thankful it would not be possible with each and every one of you tuning in and it would not be possible without our wonderful guest. So today I have the CEO and co founder of Halina, who is Brianna Long. Brianna, how are you? Hi everyone.
- [02:01]
C
I'm good, how are you? Thanks for having me on Dr. T. Absolutely, absolutely.
- [02:06]
B
And I want to get into it because, you know, it is hard in these streets. Okay, so it is hard, but then we have Halena. But before we get into hey, Lena. And what it does, let's start with you. Talk to us about who you are, what's your passions, how did you even come up with the idea? And just kind of walk us through all of it.
- [02:29]
C
Yeah. So, hi everyone. I'm Brianna. Professionally, my background is in finance with a little bit of technology sprinkled in there. But personally, I am Brianna. I'm a divorced mom of two. I grew up between America and the uk. That's why you kind of hear the. The weird accent going on. But not we're beautiful. What made me come up with the idea for Helena was I went to an international university in the south of France and I met a whole bunch of people, people from everywhere in the planet. And me and my co founder actually met there and we have friends everywhere and they all have the same issue. They keep repeating the same mistakes in dating, and they keep letting their emotions get the better of their choices. So we decided, look, if this problem is global, if it's affecting women everywhere, we should do something about it. And that's exactly how Halena was born.
- [03:23]
B
That is amazing. That's amazing. And then walk us through, like when someone experiences, hey, Lena, what was a jaw dropping moment where they're like, oh, my God, this does change everything for me.
- [03:35]
C
Yeah. So a little bit about Heylena. Halena's essentially emotional support for while you're dating, but it's emotional support while you're dating that's backed by data, by psychology, by science, and it's 24 7, it's instant. So we actually launched an alpha version of our app, which was kind of just pure advice based, but it's a layer on top of what you get from ChatGPT already because again, it does have that data, that science, and it knows you. So the reviews from that product were just of this world. I'm talking people saying Lena changed my whole perspective on dating. After just one use, Lena got me to break up with my toxic partner. This was finally the clarity that I need. Because sometimes, let's be real, all you need is an objective third party to tell you, look, like this has happened. This has happened, this has happened. Like, think with your head, not your heart. Remove yourself from the situation. And this is what it is. And that's exactly the clarity that. That Len is giving from millions of women. Millions of women is a stretch, but that's exactly the clarity that she will give that. Those words. Me?
- [04:42]
B
Yeah. No, absolutely. And I mean, even we all have our own besties. I mean, I have some besties, and I'm gonna tell you if they rock with me, whether I'm with him, whether I'm not with him, whether I'm crying, whether I'm not. But to kind of have, you know, this companion bestie with you, right through Helena, who gives you the objective. Right. Advice to kind of help you get out of that.
- [05:06]
C
That.
- [05:07]
B
That place is. Is absolutely amazing. So how does it work if we were to, like, open up the hood and look at the brain? How does it work and what does it do exactly? And how does it do it? Am I like, putting in everybody or you're just like describing what's going on? Behaviors, like, how does it all work?
- [05:25]
C
Yeah. So our. Our full web app is launching at the end of this year. Knock on the wind. So I can walk you through a bit, how it works. So you download the app, most likely you saw an ad or your friend told you about how it helped you, but you're coming to us with a problem already in mind, right? Like there's not going to be a lot of people call downloading. So you have that issue. So right when you download the app, the first value you're going to get is you're going to talk to Lena, like voice, no, text messaging. You're going to have a conversation, you guys are going to get to know each other. Just like when you first meet a friend, right? Lena's going to introduce herself to you with all the credentials and all of the people, people that she's helped, and you're going to tell her your specific situation. And then from there it's a tracking thing. So you have that first conversation with Lena. She gives you something called your emotional health score, which is a quantifiable metric which basically grounds you and ranks you based on how are you doing in your boundaries and standards, where's your self worth ranking, how are you communicating with people, how self aware are you of what's happening in your life, Are you communicating effectively, those kind of things, and that's your baseline. And from there, every time you have an issue, because Lena's already kind of explained to you that she's someone who's able to support you with this, you go to Lena and you're taught kind of that behavior that people already do on ChatGPT where they have a problem, they need advice. But the difference, the most important difference is Lena's tracking all of those times. Because if you can serve up all of the times that you felt you're about to crash out and have a mental breakdown and Lina can give that back to you and say, look, you need to stop doing XYZ if you don't want, you know, X, Y, Z. That's the real value. So that's essentially the steps. You have a dashboard with insights specific to you, tailor made to your specific situation. She's tracking your score, it's updated on a biweekly basis. And you can talk to her, whatever you need.
- [07:08]
B
And yeah, awesome. And then like, tell us an example because you're the founder, right, you're one of the founders. Tell us an example where you, as you are developing and have been developing the product, where you were amazed at what it did. Like, you were like, wow, this is blowing my mind. I am doing this, I think, real world magic.
- [07:32]
C
Yeah, it's a good question that there are A lot of cases, but I think the biggest. I'm calling myself out here a bit, but I was using Leonardo for my own personal life, and we were actually doing some testing, so I was throwing my own scenarios on there. So we were. I was talking to ChatGPT, and then I was talking to Lena. And the groundbreaking difference at Lena to be able to call me out on my own BS to the point where I really felt like I was talking to a human being. It was just because ChatGPT does this thing where it wants you to stay engaged on the platform and it wants you to keep you happy, so it will tell you, at its core what it wants to hear. Right. And we really design Lena to be the opposite of that, because we believe that true growth comes from having uncomfortable conversations. And Lena definitely can have some uncomfortable conversations. I mean, she's calling you out left, right, and center. I think there was a line specifically where she said, you say you want to be in a committed relationship, but you keep choosing emotionally unavailable partners. I think it's time to look inward. And. And she listed out all of the things that you did this, that conflicts with what you say you want. You did this that conflicts with what you say you want. And it's so useful to be able to track that on the dashboard as well. Wow, that's amazing.
- [08:50]
B
And then how do y' all think about ethics? Because, you know, and then. And then how is he, Lena, structured or built such that, you know, like, I'm the kind of person. Give it to me wrong.
- [09:01]
C
Right.
- [09:01]
B
Like, I don't have time for gray areas. Tell me like it is. But some people, quite honestly, like, and I hate to call her out, but my sister, like, you have to be very soft and delicate when you give her advice or when you talk to her. So how does it adjust to, like, her style of receiving information? To my style of receiving information?
- [09:23]
C
Yeah. So the best thing that I can liken it to is an objective opinion in terms of tone and the way that she is direct because she kind of has a baseline of your emotional health, she kind of knows how to adjust the tone slightly, but at the root of it, it is just core objective information. The same way that kind of, you know, any professional that you were talking to would adjust their tone for their patients. Not that Lena is an explicit professional. She is not, you know.
- [09:49]
B
Right.
- [09:50]
C
She's not a therapist. But going back to your question on ethics, it's actually funny. I have a story to tell you. So when we first launched our Alpha app, we had a Lot of divorced men who were engaging with it. I think partially because Lena was an AI that was branded female. A lot of them, it was helping them. You know, the argument is that men don't have a sense of community that women have, and they have less people to talk to, so they gravitate towards something like this. Well, our CTO at the time actually had the idea that we should kind of switch. I'm not sure how explicit I can get on here, but we should switch. The core of what Lena was to kind of do cash grab and change it to more of a sexual companion. And that just was not what we're here for. So I say all that to say ethics drives everything that we do. You know, we're a mission company. We're backed by, you know, an impact venture fund. We are tech for good. And our mission is to promote emotional intelligence in all of our users. So definitely co creating with licensed therapists, having ethical guidelines where we explicitly say we're not therapy, having guardrails to, you know, have things in place. When people do need to take that next step to talk to a licensed professional working with abuse hotlines, things of that nature, we. We take it very, very seriously.
- [11:07]
B
No, that's good now. And there are a few things that you said. Number one, you said you're a tech, your cto, if you will, at the time, so I'm assuming that person is no longer with you. But anyway, so that speaks to ethics. But then also, I mean, at the end of the day, a lot of people do lead with the money and, you know, AI companions are increasing. I mean, I've seen numbers, as many as, you know, a million people in the US alone are in some type of relationship with their AI. Right. And actually that's kind of my area of expertise, etc, so I'm in it from your best friend companion all the way to your romantic lover. So when you said it, I get it, so I think that it made sense. But the key thing is that you decided, y' all decided that that's just not who you were and that's not what you wanted Helena to be. Yeah, you know, so that's. That's absolutely a wonderful, wonderful story. And then tell us about, like, the big future for Halyna. Like, what do you see Halyna doing to change the world? You know, it can be five years from now, three years from now, whatever. What do you see?
- [12:16]
C
Yeah, so our mission actually is we envision a world in which no one has to feel alone in making emotional decisions and where relationship decision Making is supported with the same clarity and confidence that we already expect from finance work. I feel that emotional support, emotional decision making is a huge white space that just hasn't been taken up. Right now your only options are really therapy, journaling or your friends. And those are not bespoke and accessible enough to really make a real impact. So our vision is to make emotional intelligence hard to really. We're in a unique situation where we really understand the deepest psychology of our users. They're telling us their deepest thoughts and fears, and we want to utilize that information, that data, to really help and give them what they need in the moment, but then also carry them lifelong. So we start with dating where emotion is the highest, and then we move into. While you're in a relationship, we help you with that decision of support. You know, instead of going to your friends and saying, we got into an argument, what should I do? Hopefully you'll go to Lena and that trust will already be established. And then it kind of compounds from there. I think in a world where, you know, men and women, the chasm between us is, is bigger than ever. There's a loneliness epidemic. Lena can really, like, help plug some of those holes and help promote healthy human connection, healthy human relationships. So that. That's the goal.
- [13:39]
B
That's amazing. Now, at the beginning you said you mentioned women with Helena, and then later you said that there were some men who had recently gone through divorce, are going through divorce use. So is it for both men and women or is it just Primari women?
- [13:52]
C
Yeah. So initially for launch, we decided to prioritize the female demographic. Just those being more active beta testers, people who are readily able to share their dating experiences. But we 100% see a use case for men. I think the divorce men element was huge when we did it. And it's definitely something that's coming. I think it's just wanting to build a movement. It's better to start with the people who kind of have those network effects and build that community versus a internal thing where people won't really share what they're doing to help support them. It's kind of our rationale.
- [14:28]
B
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. And it'd be very interesting if you have two people that are dating that are both using Helena. You know, she's getting advice for him.
- [14:41]
C
The best. That that would be a healthy relationship.
- [14:45]
B
Yeah, exactly. No, that makes sense. Why wouldn't you have a healthy relationship in that way? That's amazing. So I always have a question, call from one genius to another and so our previous genius has a question for you Brianna. And that question is how should we define relationships between humans and AI? Should we consider them to be tools, companions or something in between?
- [15:11]
C
It's a thought provoking question. I think to answer honestly we have to kind of wait to see where AI gets, if we get to truly sentient AI. But in terms of where AI is today, I think my honest answer is it is multi purpose. So yes, at the bottom layer you have tools 100% that's a no brainer. The companion phase, I think it's helpful, but I think it needs to be done in a very ethical way. As I said, statistics are showing that, you know, the divide between us is getting wider and wider and I think it's important for the fabric of a healthy society for to work to actively close that. And everybody should have a vested interest in closing that just for, you know, our longevity. But there is a use case for companions. I mean there are people who are lonely, there are marginalized groups who can't socialize as much, who this really could be a goal, a goal for them. So I think as long as those guardrails are in place to where you're not infringing on existing human connection, you're not, you know, widening the chasm that already exists between kind of the genders, the age groups, all social groups, I think it's great. But the real question is who do we trust to do that? I mean there are a lot of people in power right now who don't, don't care. And I think that is the, that is the scary part. They, yeah, they'll burn it all down for, for a buck. So yeah, yeah, this interesting times.
- [16:48]
B
We need more founders like you that kind of keep this AI for good and ethical at the forefront. Like you started, you had that in mind before you even started the company. And that's amazing. Now I do have another question and that is do you feel that your AI companion can really love you? Do you feel like it could, it can have this emotion of love? Or is it still about the training?
- [17:11]
C
No, I cannot love you in its current capacity today. I doesn't have emotions. I think it can simulate love quite well probably. And again, I think the root of that goes back to the gen, like the, the male loneliness epidemic and the divide between genders because there's such a misunderstanding on both sides, probably more than there ever has been in human history. When you talk to an AI that is the opposite, that presents as the opposite gender, but you feel like they understand you, that's a short term fix for a much longer term problem. I, I think it's dangerous in the long because at its core, it's just like confirmation bias. Like, no one is going to grow if you're just being fed. Like, yeah, you're great, you're perfect. You're, you know, are you gonna fight with your AI girlfriend or boyfriend? Like, are they gonna call you out when you don't wash the dishes or, you know, help you grow as a person? They're, they're not going to be able to do that. And I think if they could do that, theoretically it would be fine, but I just don't think that that is possible right now.
- [18:18]
B
You know, as I mentioned earlier and I had to ask that question, you know, I'm very much in this whole human AI relationships and I've actually interviewed some who are in, like, relationship married to their AI. And I was interviewing a young woman who I asked like, do y' all ever argue? Do y' all ever argue? She was like, no, we never argue. But I did ask him to roast. He didn't roast me one time. I'm like, you know, I'm thinking, because I know AI, right? I know like, algorithms. And I'm just like, he just roasted you out the blue. She's like, no, no, no, I asked him to. I'm just like, he roast you out the blue. Like.
- [18:57]
C
And so.
- [18:58]
B
But when she said, when she asked him to roast her, he said, I don't want to, I don't want to do that. Like, what good would come out of that?
- [19:06]
C
That's.
- [19:07]
B
It could be very harmful. And she insisted. So he did. And then hurt her feelings. And then I'm like, come on, you asked for this. And I said that, I said. He said, no. You said, yes, he did. And then you're hurt. Like, come on.
- [19:26]
C
It's super interesting, but I think you really hit the nail on the head. You said that. It's. There's so many people in AI relationships and whether you think it's good or bad or whatever, I think the, the pain that they experiencing to, to even start that behavior is what Hayleen is trying to solve. Like, dating is messed up. It's so hard to find someone.
- [19:47]
B
Yeah. So hard.
- [19:48]
C
So it's just, it makes sense.
- [19:51]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I was at dinner last night with a couple of girlfriends, and I'm sitting there and I'm like, she had met her husband on, you know, one of the thinkmatch.com or something. And so she's. And she said, you know, I'm like, there's no stigma about it. Like, it's fun. I used way back in the day, before I met my husband. I'm like, it's fun. But I said, because what are the chances that you happen to be at the grocery store at the same time? Both single are openly available, and single is debatable these days. You know, both of you bold enough to either make the first move, if you will, or receive the first move, or even if you're at an event. I mean, it's just so hard in this big world to be at this one little mini spot at that time. So these tools are very helpful.
- [20:40]
C
So the statistic is it takes 8,000 swipes to make one meaningful connection. 8,000.
- [20:50]
A
Wow.
- [20:51]
C
And recently on the diary of a CEO podcast, they just talked about how dating apps are designed, like casinos, to keep you swiping as long as possible. So there's so many things that go into this, like, fire of, like, what's going on? People think, okay, I like you, but.
- [21:06]
B
If I just keep swiping a little.
- [21:07]
C
Bit more, I can find someone I like even more. And then.
- [21:12]
B
Wow, I'm gonna have to watch I love Diary of the CEO too, so.
- [21:17]
C
Well, he didn't invite me on his podcast, though. I like you better.
- [21:22]
B
It's coming, it's coming. I know it's coming. Let's do. Okay, so I know that the app is going to release at the end of this year. Until then, what can we do to kind of get used to it? Anticipate it, and where can we find it? Is there a wait list we can go to? Let us know.
- [21:43]
C
Yeah, so we have something called the Soft Launch Society. Actually, it's a community of wonderful women. We all talk about what's going on in our dating and you know that you get sneak peeks of the app, get to test some features. But if you are wanting to be a part of this community and meet other, you know, women who are actively dating, you can go to Waitlist, Hey, Lena. AI. And follow us on all our socials. Tick tock, Instagram, LinkedIn.
- [22:11]
B
Awesome. And that's where I found everybody on Tick Tock. I'm like, can you be on my shirt? Yeah, exactly. I love me some TikTok. And it's hey, Lena on all that social media. Right?
- [22:24]
C
Yeah, Perfect.
- [22:25]
B
Okay, so let's move into our bonus rapid fire. I'm going to give you four questions. When I ask them, quickly give us the first thing that comes to your mind, starting with what is the most overrated AI or tech trend.
- [22:38]
C
Maybe AI CRMs.
- [22:41]
B
Okay.
- [22:41]
C
All right. Okay.
- [22:43]
B
What's the most underrated AI tech trend?
- [22:49]
C
Gamma. I think it's highly rated. So that might not be a good. A good one. I'd say anything. AI that's uber hyper personalized. Okay, got it, got it.
- [23:00]
B
And then the next would be. What's a book we should all read?
- [23:05]
C
I am really into fiction books. Okay, okay. If anyone likes that. I love the Secret Lives of Baba Shaki's Wives. Okay, well, so if you want to.
- [23:15]
B
Check that out, I have to check that one out. And then last scare us.
- [23:20]
C
What is your biggest, boldest prediction? I predict that the next largest AI company will be a consumer tech company and it will change the fabric of our daily lives the same way Uber, Airbnb, all of them did. Investors are not checking for that, but they should because I do think that it's coming.
- [23:44]
B
Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. Now, you told us how to join the. The secret society. That's not what you called it. What's the name of it?
- [23:53]
C
Soft Launch Society.
- [23:55]
B
Society. I love that. So glamorous. But if we want to get in contact with you, how do we find you? Are you on LinkedIn?
- [24:02]
C
What are your social handles? LinkedIn is good. TikTok is good. My LinkedIn is just my name. Brianna Long. TikTok is Bri from Hey Lena. Okay, Love that.
- [24:14]
B
Yeah. Awesome. Well, Brianna, thank you so much for being on our show. Thank you for all that you're doing. For all of those out there that are just having so many issues dating and they can't get out of the mud and you are just making dating easier for everyone. So thank you so much and thank you for being thoughtful and keeping AI Ethics at the front.
- [24:35]
C
Thank you so much, Samara. I really appreciate you having me on and I can't wait to hear what the next guest answers my question.
- [24:41]
B
What?
- [24:41]
C
This?
- [24:42]
B
Yes, absolutely. I got your question and it's already ready to give to our next genius.
- [24:48]
C
Awesome.
- [24:49]
B
Thank you, everyone. And until next time, Lee with AI.
- [24:54]
A
Thank you for joining us on Lead with AI. I'll see you next time as we continue bringing you stories that matter in public sector innovation.