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Can't Find Words to Pray? This AI Spiritual Companion is Here to Help
Can't Find Words to Pray? This AI Spiritual Companion is Here to Help
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- [00:01]
A
Loneliness is one of the quietest struggles of our time. But what if technology could meet people there? Not to replace human connection, but to gently bridge it? I'm Dr. Tamara Nall, and in this episode of Lead with AI, we explore Risen, a faith rooted AI powered companion designed to listen, reflect, and remind you that you are never truly alone. Join me as and Risen's founder, Joshua Pinto, as we talk about what it means to build technology with soul and how AI can become a vessel for empathy, healing and hope. Let's get into it. Welcome to lead with AI. I'm Dr. Tamara Nall. In each episode, we will take you behind the scenes with visionary leaders shaping the future of AI across public and private sectors. Join us as we explore groundbreaking projects and innovations that are transforming industries and making a real impact on people's lives. Let's dive in.
- [01:12]
B
Hi, everyone. How are you? And welcome back to another week and another episode and another guest with Lead with AI. But first, I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you, thank you. Because of you, of course, this year we hit number one in technology on Apple podcasts, as well as being a gold winner for the W3 awards for guest appearances and for interviews. And it wouldn't be possible without each of you that's listening as well as our fabulous, fabulous guest. And I'm so excited to have Joshua Pinto with us who is the founder of Risen. How are you, Josh?
- [01:51]
C
Fantastic, Tamara. Thank you so much for having me.
- [01:54]
B
Absolutely, absolutely. So I'm really excited about this, particularly given the fact that we're going into the holiday season and a lot of people, you know, are lonely. I haven't lost my mother 10 years ago. I still have my moments. I was talking to one of my employees yesterday who was missing his father, who recently passed away in the past couple of years. So it's very, very important. So I can't wait to get into Risen. But first, we always want to start with you, the founder. Tell us about who you are at your core, why you're passionate, and how you found there was a need for developing Risen.
- [02:36]
C
Sure, thanks. So at my core, I'm. I'm both an engineer and a person of faith. But Risen wasn't born in the boardroom or in a lab. It was Tamara, born very much in a moment of grief. Not too long ago, I. I lost my father to cancer, and. And almost exactly two years before that, my mother and. And as you know, most people do when they're going through grief, I found myself extremely alone.
- [03:08]
B
Right.
- [03:09]
C
But I still had to show up to Life, you know, show up as a CEO, as a dad, as a, as a husband, and you know, and I felt, I felt lost in the middle, trying to find something to hold onto. And in one of those lonely nights, I was sitting by myself, scrolling as you do, looking for answers online. And I found a lot of feel good content on there, but nothing that really resonated with me. And I remember the thought hitting me in that moment. I wish I had a spiritual director in my pocket now. It was so far out that I dismissed the thought and I went to bed. But that didn't leave me. It stuck with me. And so two days later I coded a prototype for myself to use. And I found myself using that quite a lot on my way to work before bed at night instead of doom scrolling. And it started changing me. I was going to mass more often, I was receiving the sacraments, I was praying, and there was something changing in me. So, you know, Tamra, there are people that go through life with a smile on their face. They go to work, they post on Instagram or. But all while carrying very heavy crosses of their own.
- [04:40]
B
Sure.
- [04:41]
C
And, and I felt that what I have is, could help a lot of those people. And so I bootstrapped what is now Risen.
- [04:50]
B
I love that. And what is Risen? I mean, we can kind of figure it out based on what you said to kind of help with loneliness and getting advice spiritual. But just tell us, what is it?
- [05:00]
C
So Risen is, let me put it this way. So it started off as being a companion, a spiritual companion that you could communicate with through free flowing conversation and also guided experiences. So for example, you can ask it a question about, you know, I'll go back to my dad question. So I'm feeling extremely lonely in this time of grief. And you know, how do I make it another day or ask it, you know, you know, if there's, if there's so much of suffering in this world, you know, how can, how can we know there is a God or anything that you're really struggling with the questions that you couldn't ask another person. And what you get is our responses that are very theologically accurate but also pastorally sound. So that was the core of Risen. And I'll, you know, I'll talk to you more about how that expanded into something big now.
- [06:03]
B
Awesome, I love that. And talk to us about that jaw dropping moment where someone experiences Risen for the first time and it changes everything for them.
- [06:14]
C
Absolutely. The first jaw dropping moment for me was actually with my wife, Fann. So when I first showed her, the app, she asked it something very practical and raw about balancing being a mom and exhaustion and her faith life. And the response that the app gave her was so gentle and true to the church's teaching that it actually moved her to tears. And that was the first moment that I felt that what I had wasn't just a clever idea, but something deeper was taking place. And then I saw the same thing with. With others as well. You know, friends would say, I, I feel like the person behind this app really cares for me. Said, you know, it's like a 24. 7 counselor in my pocket. And, and one friend, I remember Job saying, you know, Josh, this app is more pastorally attentive than my parish priest on a Monday morning. So. But here's the real holy smokes moment for people. When they first use the app. They expect advice that is, that is, you know, generic self help. You know, the youth. Here are 10 things you should do, kind of tips they get Scripture, tradition, the saints, and genuine, genuine pastoral care in language that feels human, so they feel accompanied. And that shift, it's not information, but it's. It's spiritual guidance delivered with pastoral care.
- [07:49]
B
Got it. Now, who is the app for? Is it for, you know, just Catholics? Is it for all Christians? If it's Protestants, is it for atheists? Who is it for?
- [08:02]
C
Thank you, Tamara. Look, reason is, Is for anyone, to be honest, but it is, it is very grounded in the teachings of the Catholic Church. I'll answer this question twofold. So for Catholics, it would be for anyone, really. It isn't built for the scholars of the church, so they can use it as well, but it's built for the everyday Catholic, wherever they are in their faith journey, whether they're exploring the faith or they are a seasoned Catholic. We're seeing a big, what they're calling a quiet revival in the church. Lots of people returning to more traditional forms of worship. And many of them, many of them are not finding their faith or their path through. They're not cradle Catholics. They're actually finding it through research of their own, and there aren't enough tools out there to support that. And so this is one tool that's supporting that in a good way. But, you know, you asked if it was for other denominations, and actually I have, you know, shared this with people of other denominations as well. And actually, the response from Protestants, evangelicals has been overwhelming. And they're actually asking me to make a version of this that is a little more tailored for them as well. So we'll see whether it's more. It's only the star coming.
- [09:30]
B
Got it. And will it be like Risen to, or will it just be housed under the same kind of like, hood? Which goes into our next question.
- [09:39]
C
I'm going to feel it out. I haven't come out that far in the future.
- [09:43]
B
Got it. Well, good news. And that just really excites me when I have conversations with founders and their product is evolving. Why? Because it's coming from a market demand. It's coming from people who feel something but want something more. So congratulations on that. I must feel awesome. Like really, really amazing.
- [10:02]
C
Thank you.
- [10:03]
B
Awesome. So let's go into how it all works. So if we open up the hood, how does Ryzen's brain work?
- [10:12]
C
So if you could peek inside Risen's brain, you would feel like you are in a library or a chapel or an office of a counselor.
- [10:22]
B
Wow.
- [10:23]
C
But under the hood, there is real structure that makes that happen. So we've got a theological guardrail that keeps responses grounded in scripture and teachings of the Church. It doesn't invent theology. It is pastorally sensitive. So it is built from real principles of spiritual counseling that makes it gentle, safe and human and never harsh or reckless. We build something in that I'm calling Soul Print, which allows Risen to remember things, teams in the user's journey, and respond with with continuity. It considers the user, the user's spiritual goals and where they are in their journey and responds accordingly. So for example, the advice or the response given to a 70 year old nun would be very different from the advice given to a 25 year old adult. So it's very contextual. And then we built the fun aspect of it, which I think I call the Avatar Engine, which the users can choose a guide, like a spiritual guide, which could be inspired by saints. Catholics love their saints like Saint Anthropio or Saint Therese, or also lay people like, you know, I've got one avatar at the moment that's called Dan, who's a, you know, 40 something year old dad of three, you know, rooted in, in just the realities and practicalities of everyday life while also trying to balance his fate. Then I've got a chirpy youth group leader. So it's just different tones of voice while the, you know, the theology is still the same. So it resonates with different people differently. So yes, look under the hood. It is AI and ML very much. But the experience feels like real human accompaniment, very nuanced and very personal.
- [12:20]
B
I love that. I love that. So the guardrails like the spiritual Guardrails and then the avatars that one can pick. That resonates with, you know, with the him or her and the user is amazing. Now, we talked about the jaw dropping, holy smokes moment earlier. Give us some of that real world magic. Give us another example, primarily where you, as the founder, were building this out and it gave you goosebumps when you're like, wow, this is more than I ever thought it would be. And it even surprised you.
- [12:51]
C
Absolutely. Look, one. One comes straight to mind. The most powerful for me was. Was from a close friend, a single mom juggling work study and caring for her child. She told me once that the only thing that really kept her going was caring for her daughter. Now, let me say this upfront. Risen isn't therapy. It doesn't pretend to be, and they're very explicit about that. But she said that the app gave her something to lean on in those lonely nights, a way to pray when she couldn't find the words, a voice that reminded her she wasn't alone, and just a general sense that God was still close. And hearing that, that something we bootstrap late at night could be part of what kept someone going. Yeah, it still gives me the chills.
- [13:47]
B
Oh, my God, that is amazing. You know, because they. It does say the Bible, like sometimes you don't know what to say. So murmuring, you know, there's murmuring and got over. And here we have a case of this single mom who didn't know how to pray. And literally all she had to do was to listen to or hear what Rizn was saying in that moment where the words just wouldn't form. And that. That is absolutely breathtaking. That does give me like goosebumps and chills for sure. That's a wonderful story. Now, along those lines, I mean, I know you said that it definitely is not therapy. Does not participate. Pretend to be a counselor. I mean, like a licensed counselor, if you will. So how do you think about ethics and what kind of guardrails are in place? And I mean, you're talking about people really sharing so much of their lives and hearing and trying to get inspiration. So how do you think about ethics in all of this?
- [14:42]
C
No, that. That is very important. And ethics was. Was number one and two. When we were building this app, we. We had to build it in right from the very beginning because like you said, people are sharing the. Their lives, you know, with. With this in very intimate ways.
- [14:56]
B
Yes.
- [14:57]
C
So for us, the ethical line was is. Is very clear. Risen isn't God, isn't The priest, it isn't the therapist. It's built to walk alongside people, but never to replace the church, the sacraments, or professional care. So that's the first, you know, the first level. Now, like I've mentioned before, everything is checked to be theologically accurate while still being pastorally attentive. So Risen draws from a deep well of the church to the scripture, the catechism of the Catholic Church, the works of the saints, works of Aquinas and Augustine and the doctors of the Church. So there's real substance that. That it draws from. And. And we do also have what we call human and the loop. Moderation. Okay, absolutely. So if something does slip through that is not theologically accurate or pastorally wise, it can be picked up and reviewed and corrected. So we don't pretend to be perfect, you know, we are committed, though, to learning, improving, and keeping Christ at the center.
- [16:09]
B
Got it. So if there is a flag that something is inaccurate, is that coming from the user who says that's not right, or do you actually have code built in there that it automatically looks for that?
- [16:23]
C
Both. Okay, so we do have code built in that picks up inconsistencies or something that in Markdown has been trained to do. And it does flag that automatically. Also things that, for example, if a person indicates self harm or harm to others, you know, something, but that might not be right. It definitely picks that up and flags that automatically keeps everything anonymous though, the flagging. But it does do that. If. If there are some really sensitive matters that is beyond the scope of this app. It does the. The app does, you know, give some advice, but it does suggest to the person that they seek professional help so that, you know, we have that in place. But at the same time, we've got a little flag icon on the responses. So the user just doesn't like what they see. They can just hit flag and it goes into queue. And then we review that by real trained individual and then they can say, yep, look, this wasn't right and this is how it can be better. And then the model learns over time and improves.
- [17:31]
B
Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. This sounds so wonderful. So tell us, what's the big Future for risen? 20, 35 years from now, in your mind, what is the vision of how Risen is going to change the world in our future?
- [17:46]
C
Okay, look, by 2030, I don't see Risen just as just an app on your phone. I see it as a fabric of everyday Catholic life, a real spiritual companion for the everyday person. Like you said earlier, the vision evolves. And I Have a big vision that. For the. For the app, for the project. That really excites me. So we want to build enterprise models for schools and for churches. So schools. Let me take schools. It is where Risen supports faith formation with AI generated learning paths. So, yeah, so it meets students where they are spiritually rather than where a curriculum imagines them to be. I see it as an extension of the pastoral arm for a church to help people between Sundays during sacramental prep or in those moments where people need encouragement, but they just never book an appointment.
- [18:47]
B
That's powerful.
- [18:49]
C
Absolutely. And also see it for troubled youth communities. Remote communities. Sorry, remote communities with troubled youth. We see integrating with real human mentors, you know, almost as a first triage step before you connect it to a real human mentor. So digital presence with authentic human accompaniment. So the 2030 vision for the app, I would say, is pastoral care that is deeply personal for the individual, but also scalable for the church.
- [19:23]
B
Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. And the way you're going, it'll probably be before 2030, honestly, but I definitely see a need for that. That is great. Well, you know, you're obviously an invited guest whom I also call a genius. And our previous guest has a question for you, Josh. And that question is, if AI ever became conscious, how would we even know?
- [19:51]
C
That's a good one. Well, in practical terms, if AI ever became conscious, the first sign wouldn't be what it tells us. Rather, it would be what it chooses not to.
- [20:07]
B
Okay, that's deep.
- [20:08]
C
So let me go into that. So in practical terms, we'd recognize consciousness in a machine the same way we recognize it in another human being. Person. A persistent sense of identity, subjective preferences and behavior that suggests lived experience. But here's the twist. I think it is entirely possible for AI to become immensely intelligent without ever becoming conscious. Consciousness might just be a biological hack to intelligence or a shortcut to intelligence.
- [20:39]
B
Okay, got it, Got it. Well, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm glad you got that question and not me. Um, and it was obviously, in a very short amount of time, very well thought out. So. Love that. Love that answer. So if people wanted to, you know, learn about use today, what can they do to do that?
- [21:01]
C
Well. Well, the simplest way to use to understand Risen is to try it. So the mvp, the minimum viable product is, is free right now to use on Risen Life. So it's spelled with a Y, R, Y, S, E, N Life. So use it. Use it for a prayer before bed, for scripture reflection on your commute. Or to just ask it that one question that you've been carrying for a while and you'd see what it feels like to have a companion that is theologically grounded and pastorally sensitive. But Tamra, what we've released is very much just a taster. Our full vision is a cross platform experience with guided and free journaling, with a deeper, with deeper prayer companionship and with a community feature built in as well, which is because we really feel that faith is meant to be worked together, not in isolation. So I guess for your viewers, for your listeners, my invitation is twofold. If you're a listener, try it this week, right? But if you are a faith aligned investor or a leader that shares in this mission, dream with us about what comes next. Because what you see today is just a seed. With the right partners, I really believe we can scale this into a global faith companion that strengthens individuals and communities.
- [22:30]
B
Got it. I love that. So y' all heard it. If you want to try it out, go to Risen R Y S E N Life. If you want to invest or get more involved partner, reach out to him and we'll give you that information as we end the the conversation. Before I end the conversation and it has been a wonderful one, I want to go into what I call bonus rapid fire. So I'm going to quickly ask you four questions and then you're going to give me the first thoughts that come to your mind. Starting with what is the most overrated AI tech trend?
- [23:06]
C
Replacing humans with AI. I think the future isn't elimination, it's. It's augmentation. AI should give people superpowers, not seek to replace them.
- [23:17]
B
Okay. Love that coming from someone who is all in on human AI relationships, from your best friend to your companion. But yes, got it. What about the most underrated AI tech trend?
- [23:30]
C
I think it is contextual AI. So that is AI that remembers and adapts and understands your world. I think that's coming.
- [23:39]
B
Got it. Okay. What's a book we should all read on the future?
- [23:44]
C
I think it is the Fourth Industrial Revolution by Klaus Schwab. If you want a realistic picture of where tech biology, AI is going, that's the blooper.
- [23:55]
B
Got it. Okay. And then lastly my question is Scare us. Wow us. What is your biggest, boldest prediction?
- [24:03]
C
I think that trust will become the new competitive advantage. People will choose AI they trust with their values and their families, not just the one with the biggest model.
- [24:16]
B
Love that. And you know what? That actually, that competitive advantage actually extends beyond AI and tech. Quite, quite honestly. Just in terms of like people and relationships and, you know, winning business, having friends, building your contact. I love that. I love that. The big, the next competitive advantage. I really love that. Josh, I have so enjoyed this conversation. Thank you. Thank you for introducing yourself to us. Thank you for introducing Risen to us. How can we, we know we can go to Risen Life, but how do we get in contact with you? What are all the social media handles if you have that LinkedIn for both you and Risen?
- [24:55]
C
Well, Tamra, I haven't done much in social media, unfortunately, but I will. Look, the best way to get in touch with me is Risen Live has a contact page, contact section. If you, if you send me something there, it reaches my mailbox. You can find me on LinkedIn at Joshua Pinto and I'll ask Tamara if she can link me in.
- [25:15]
B
Absolutely.
- [25:15]
C
From this as well. So for now, that's the best way to do it. And, and we, we, we intend to have socials up pretty soon.
- [25:23]
B
Okay. I love that. No pressure because guess what, y', all, if you go to the contact form, you'll be getting him like the founder, the man.
- [25:31]
C
So it's your early days for us. Yeah.
- [25:34]
B
Doesn't get higher than that. Unless, of course, you're talking to God. So, so, but Josh, again, thank you so much. I enjoy this conversation. I look forward to hearing about the great things that you and Risen will do for all of us and then reflecting back on this conversation that we've had. So thank you.
- [25:54]
C
Thank you so much again, Tamara, for having us.
- [25:56]
B
Absolutely, absolutely. So everyone, thank you for tuning in this week. And remember, until next time, Lee with AI.
- [26:03]
C
Bye.
- [26:04]
A
Thanks for tuning in to lead with AI I'll see you next time as we continue exploring the cutting edge innovations shaping AI across the public and private sectors. Until then, keep leading with AI.