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Doctronic: Inside the First AI Doctor Licensed to Practice Medicine
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Doctronic: Inside the First AI Doctor Licensed to Practice Medicine
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- [00:00]
A
Today's conversation is about health care and a bold rethink of access to medical insight. In the moments before someone ever sees a doctor, confusion, anxiety, delayed action and misinformation often take hold. For millions of people around the world, those moments may be the only moments they have. I'm joined by Pat Pavel, co founder and co CEO of Doctronic, the company behind what they describe as the world's first licensed AI doctor in Utah. It also provides free AI powered diagnosis globally. Doctronic is designed to give people clear, immediate medical guidance, helping them understand symptoms and make informed decisions while expanding access to care at scale. Let's get INTO it.
- [00:53]
B
Welcome to lead with AI. I'm Dr. Tamara Nall in each episode. In this episode, we will take you behind the scenes with visionary leaders shaping the future of AI across public and private sectors. Join us as we explore groundbreaking projects and innovations that are transforming industries and making a real impact on people's lives. Let's dive in.
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A
Hi everybody. Welcome back to lead with AI where I am your host Dr. T and I'm so happy to have Matt Pavel with me today. He is the co founder and co CEO of Doctronic. How are you Matt?
- [01:37]
C
I'm doing great, Dr. T. How are you?
- [01:40]
A
I am doing amazing and I'm so excited to get into today's episode. But first I have to say thank you to all of our listeners and also our guests. Because of you, we hit number one in technology and Apple podcasts last year as well as we are an award winning podcast because we won gold in the W3 awards for guests and interviews. So I mean, and you're gonna see today everybody why this is such an exciting topic and why we win awards and we hit number one because of guests like this. So Matt, let's get into it. I'm so excited. So tell us first about who you are as a founder, who you are as a person, your background, your passions and what led you to Doctronic.
- [02:28]
C
AI. Yeah, sure. So I guess I'm what you would call a technical founder. I have a computer science degree from Carnegie Mellon.
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A
Okay.
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C
I've been building startups for a long time, 25 years at this point.
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A
Wow.
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C
So I built a lot of companies, I've had some successes, I've had a bunch of crashes, you know, as tends to happen with startups, you know, and, you know, some, some bigger successes, some smaller successes, some, some smaller exits, et cetera. I like to build products for people. So, you know, while about a third of the companies I've built have been that kind of B2B2C. Right. But still some B2B there. Most of the companies that I've built are just direct to consumer products or, or, you know, products for people. And realistically, I'm trying to make products that, that are going to make people's lives better.
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A
Got it. That is amazing. Now we're going to get into Doctronic and give us some of the examples of why it's so amazing. But tell us what it is. I was fascinated when you told me before.
- [03:28]
C
Yeah. So Doctronic is the biggest, the number one AI doctor. It is an AI that anybody can use for free. It is by default anonymous, totally private. It's a website, but also we have apps and it is a clinical AI. It's a clinical grade AI. So, so when you talk to Doctronic, let's say you're looking for a diagnosis. It has all sorts of actual medical knowledge behind the scenes and it will accurately diagnose you. So we actually published a paper showing that, and it's the first paper of its kind showing that our AI is 99.2% aligned in treatment plans with actual human diagnosis. We're the only company that's done this, and I'll tell you why. So with Doctronic, you can talk to the AI and at the end of any conversation, it will give you four diagnoses and four treatment plans and a note to take to your doctor. And this is all free, and again, it's anonymous if you want, very private. But you can also see our doctors because we have a primary care practice and we have lots of doctors and they're licensed in all 50 states and they're available 24 7. So we're the only company that can say, like, what happens when you talk to the AI and the AI gives you a diagnosis and then you talk to a real human doctor. And does that human doctor actually agree with the AI? And the answer is yes, a lot of the time, almost all of the time, which is great. And so the AI is clinically accurate. Now, another super interesting thing that has happened recently is we are the first AI that is able to legally practice medicine. So in the state of Utah, we launched a pilot program where our AI is able to renew prescription medications without a human doctor in the loop. So the AI alone is able to make these decisions. And it also does so very inexpensively. So it costs $4 for a prescription renewal. So it's affordable and it's safe. And so we're working on that right now. It is live. So if you're in Utah, you can use it. But actually, even if you're not in Utah, as noted, our AI is free, but our human doctors are also very reasonably priced. So we charge $39 for a video visit and we charge $9 for async visits. And so it's a great service and we're just really hoping to help people manage their health better.
- [05:54]
A
Wow, that is absolutely amazing. Oh my gosh. So I now the. The AI doctor in Utah. Is it only for subscription prescriptions and refills or can I also. So I can be anywhere actually and get a diagnosis, get a diagnostic analysis. Right, but in Utah is the only one, only state where I can then get a prescription or a refill. Is that right?
- [06:21]
C
Without a human, you could be anywhere in the world to use the AI itself, which will give you those four diagnoses, four treatment plans, and a note for you to take to your doctor. Anywhere in the world that's always free. Anywhere in the world that's always free.
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A
What a game changer for if you're in the. Okay, got it. If you're in the US well, anywhere
- [06:40]
C
in the world you can use the AI. Yes, if you're in the US you can use the AI. And then we have a primary care practice. So 247 you can get on a video visit with one of our doctors usually takes about three minutes after your AI consultation is done. So, you know, it could be the middle of the night and you're feeling sick and you can have a prescription waiting at the pharmacy in 10 minutes. And in Utah, if you have an existing prescription that requires a renewal. So this is mostly chronic conditions, but also contraception, some things like that. The AI alone in the state of Utah is able to renew your prescription for you.
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B
Wow.
- [07:22]
A
Wow, that is absolutely amazing. This is why I love this podcast. You know, as you were talking, I was thinking about when you say anywhere in the world, at least for the free AI, I was thinking about those communities that are rural, don't have a lot of access. This could be like that first starting point for them until they can get access to. And like what a game changing world changing tech that is, if you think about that. I don't know if that was in your thoughts and minds as you were building this out.
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C
That was exactly the reason. Right. Like there, there are people worldwide who don't have access. I mean, frankly, Americans also don't have access to health care. But. But the access to health care is problematic everywhere in the world. And while we can only actually provide healthcare in the United States right now because that's where our doctors are or that's where our AI is legally able to do it all by itself. We hope to bring that out to the rest of the world soon. But at least for the rest of the world now, we can still give everybody the AI so that it can help those people understand their health and, you know, give those four potential diagnoses and then it will make their doctor, any doctor they take it to that much more efficient. You know, the AI has already gathered all the data. It's come to some conclusions. It's very accurate. So it should make any doctor's life easier too.
- [08:42]
A
That is amazing. Oh, my goodness, I'm getting goosebumps. Really? This is amazing, Matt. So talk to us about that holy smokes moment. We as listeners, as we're learning about different AI tools, we like actual examples. So tell us about a time where a customer, a patient actually used it and it changed everything for them.
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C
Wow. Does it have to only be one?
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A
Well, I'm going to ask you twice. One. I'm going to ask you two. One is around a customer and one is you as a co founder, saw the difference it made and you got goosebumps.
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C
Yeah, so. So we have a lot of people using the system. So, you know, 20 million some odd AI consultations coming up on 100,000 doctor visits. But one of my favorite emails was from a customer and she said, look, it takes me two hours to drive to my primary care doctor when that doctor is available, by the way, which it takes weeks, sometimes months to make an appointment. And she said it costs her more in gas to drive to and from her primary care doctor than it does to just see one of our doctors. Wow. So I just thought like, wow, like that's really making a difference. Right. Not only can you see a doctor within three minutes of needing to see that, you don't have to wait weeks. But for a significant portion of the country, you know, people in rural areas where healthcare is just disappearing, the cost of gas is more than the cost of a doctor visit. So that's crazy. That should not be the case. Right, right. So I really love that one.
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A
Right. No, that is absolutely amazing. And then since you went ahead and gave us a little peek, tell us about another example where you were blown away by what Doctronic AI does.
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C
Yeah, we had a patient write in and she's a retired Air Force officer. She lives in Colorado. Spoken a bit about her before, but she has a very serious bone marrow Disorder and nobody could ever diagnose it. She went to hospitals. She spent a decade trying to figure out what was going on. It turns out that the health issue she has killed both her grandmother and her mother when they were in their late 40s. Totally healthy until their late 40s, and then health rapidly declines. It happened to her too. Like active athlete. Suddenly she hits 40 and everything just falls apart. Had no idea what it was, couldn't get any help. And she actually talked to our AI, and after putting in enough information, having enough conversation, it actually figured it out. It determined exactly what the problem was. She went to see a number of doctors and a number of specialists who concluded that, yeah, the AI was correct. And so she finally actually had a diagnosis for this. And so the other females in her family know that this is a problem, something they need to avoid, something they need, you know, to look out for. And so that was really meaningful, not just because it kind of gave her that sort of information that's hard to come by or sometimes impossible to come by, even with the best specialists in the world looking at you. But there was also this peace of mind that she mentioned that comes with knowing that this is a real thing and this is the name, this is what it's called, and this is how you deal with it.
- [12:14]
A
Wow, that is amazing. So when you talk to her next, tell her thank you for her service.
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C
Absolutely.
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A
If you think about, like, legacy, right? Like, there's legacy, and it can be defined in so many different ways. But now that the other females in her family talk about, like, protecting legacy, sustaining legacy just by knowledge alone. It's just so powerful.
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C
So powerful.
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A
Wow, that is great. Now, we're very curious people, so tell us how it works. So if we're to open up the hood of Doctronate and we would look at the brain, how does it work? How does it get it so accurate?
- [12:53]
C
Yeah, it's a great question. So a typical, let's say a diagnostic conversation. Again, those are kind of some of the easier ones to understand. Diagnostic conversation with a patient kind of looks like this under the hood. You know, the AI, I guess on the outside, the AI is just asking questions, but inside, what's actually happening is there's an agentic flow. Right. With dozens, sometimes hundreds of agents behind the scenes. And we are using some of the existing foundational models from places like Anthropic and Google and OpenAI and Meta. We also have a number of our own models that we've distilled ourselves. And actually, at any point in time, you'll sometimes behind the scenes, have multiple AIs debating with each other. Right. And trying to figure out what the, what the best course of action is or what the next question should be. And we have a document library, tens of thousands of clinical guidelines and medical documents written by our doctors specifically for the AIs. And those are kind of put into the process at the appropriate times as the AI goes through. And so this is how we ensure, you know, no hallucinations, clinical accuracy and real engagement.
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A
Got it. Oh, my goodness, that's amazing. And so these, these different, hundreds, thousands of agents. Is it like a diabetes agent, a cancer agent, a bone marrow agent?
- [14:24]
C
No, it's actually even more specific than that. Right. So there may be three agents that are, that are tasked together with trying to gather, say, your social history or your family history. Right. Four other agents that just work together to try to make sure they get all of your symptoms. Right. Another 10 agents that work together to figure out whether they've gotten the complete list of medications that you may be on and which ones you have been on. Right. So, so it's not, it's not just condition specific or symptom specific. It's. It's the whole process of going through. So there certainly are diabetes agents and actually, you know, past diabetes, there, there are agents that understand how to diagnose and understand how to treat and understand the medications and under. So, so all sorts. Right. But it's, it's a broad variety.
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A
Now let me ask this question. So once I get my results. Right.
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C
Yeah.
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A
And I think you mentioned there's a probability to each one, there's four.
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C
That's right. That's right.
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A
Do you then advise everybody to just check it with a human doctor just
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C
in case you're like, oh, yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.
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A
Okay, if I don't?
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C
Well, I mean, treatment of some sort. So, yeah, I mean, ultimately we're trying to provide enough information for you to take that to a doctor to get treatment. Right. So we're always giving four diagnoses. It's up to a human doctor to figure out which one of those is correct. Right. The AI is, is. The AI is good. Right. But it is not practicing medicine outside of Utah. And so it's not, it's not something that you should rely on all by yourself. But we're trying to give you all that information. But ultimately, listen, the, the AI may, you know, determine that, you know, there's no real risk for anything. And, you know, who knows, like, maybe you just need to sleep with a different pillow or who knows? Right. Like so, so it's always up to a person to decide whether they want to see a doctor. The same way it's always up to a person to decide whether they want to see a doctor. Right. Nobody can force you to see a doctor.
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A
That's true. That's very true.
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C
But we, we certainly encourage everybody to take the information from the AI, which is always free. Right. And talk to a doctor. Right. That's. That's the right thing to do in most situations.
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A
Got it. No, that's great. Now let's talk about like ethics and the ethical crossworlds. I mean, there's just so many thoughts. I have a. Questions rather that I have.
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C
Yeah.
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A
How do you think about ethics and, and what Doctronics AI does?
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C
Yeah. So our number one rule is to be safe. We want to make sure that no matter what happens, we are safe. That people are getting the right information, but in a safe way. And that they are able to get help. And so there are lots of tools out there that can provide information to people. Right. There's WebMD, there's the new ChatGPT Health, there's Google itself. Doctronic is clinical. We are the AI that has clinical knowledge. We also have actual doctors behind the scenes. We are able to actually help and treat patients. So from an ethical perspective, we believe in being safe and being open and private and helping people understand their health. And we sure hope that people take the information from the AI and get help.
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A
Got it. And does it clarify for me? Again, it provides a diagnostic or four. Four different.
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C
Always four. It will give you four diagnoses, it will give you a treatment plan for each of those. Right. So four treatment plans. Right. And it's just going to say like, look, there's a chance that it could be this, in which case you would do this. There's a chance that it could be this, in which case you would do this. And it's going to say all of that and it's going to give you this note to take to a doctor. It's going to make it as easy as possible and it's going to say, go, go see a doctor. But again, you can also see our doctors 24. 7. We're always available, we accept insurance. Right. We're trying to make it as easy as possible for people to actually get help. And efficient, by the way.
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A
Yeah. I want to ask the insurance. That's something. It's $39 in the insurance. That's good. Okay. Now I always ask this next question called the big Future. I kind of feel like we're already there with the first AI doctor. But yeah, I mean you're answering the question just by existing. But where do you see Doctronics AI a year from three years from now? Where do you see it and the power that it has?
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C
So I hope that we continue to be able to safely practice medicine in other ways. Right. In other states. Right. I think that most states, most people would benefit from a very inexpensive and safe way to have their prescription medication renewed. At half of Americans have a chronic condition for which by definition as a chronic condition, it's never ending. And you will always have to get your medication renewed and medication non adherence. You know, when you have a chronic condition, you don't take your medication. That is a huge problem. It causes 150,000 preventable deaths every year. 150,000 people a year die because they don't have access to the medications they know they need to take. Right. It also costs $100 billion a year and it's estimated that about 30% of that is due to friction and just getting your medication. So if we can reduce that, we're going to save tens of thousands of lives a year.
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A
Right.
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C
So I think that would be great. Right. We are in the process of proving that AI can safely help people renew their medications. And if they don't renew their medications, by definition they're going to get sick. It's going to be bad. Right. This is a chronic. You can't, you can't be like me and have high cholesterol and just not take your statin. It's just going to make things a lot worse, you know, so, so that's, that's the near future. You know, if you ask me where I think we are in a few years, I would say maybe we're also able to write some additional prescriptions, kind of brand new. Right. Like sinus infections, UTIs, allergy medications. There are a lot of medications that people need access to that they're not getting access to because there just aren't enough doctors. Right. And there will never be enough doctors. Right. And primary care, it's the worst. Like there's the largest lack of doctors in primary care. If we tripled the number of primary care doctors with a magic wand right now, there still would not be enough. And so we have a lot of doctors who work for us and they'll say things like, look, I didn't go to med school to renew prescriptions. Right. They should be there to help diagnose. They should be there to really treat the act of renewing a medication or maybe writing up, writing a new prescription for something like a UTI that can safely be done by an AI. And so I feel like we should release this unnecessary burden from the healthcare system. And we're in the process of testing that to make sure it works safely, you know.
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A
Right. No, that's amazing. And maybe it's already there, but have y' all thought at all, in your vision and strategy about, like, holistic medicine at all?
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C
So there is a lot of room for that, especially when you move kind of outside of the United States. Right. Different different cultures, different countries, different areas, have different ways of practicing medicine. And so we are very evidence based, right?
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A
Yep.
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C
And as long as there is evidence, we are. We are, you know, happy to work with it.
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A
Okay, perfect. I like that. As long as it's evidence based.
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C
Yeah. Especially because, like, you know, you always want to have to balance the, you know, like, again, we'll talk about my high cholesterol. For years, I was able to not take a statin because I, you know, changed my diet less, you know, fried foods, more oatmeal, you know, things like, you know, heart healthy stuff. I was able to not take a statin for an extra six, maybe seven years as a result of just changing diet. So, like, we certainly promote. There's evidence for that. Right? That's certainly the right thing to try. Uh, it just doesn't always work.
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A
Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. So as I was mentioning to you before, right before the holiday, I was diagnosed with two bulging days. Had to go to the hospital, all of that, which was great, great care, special thanks to I Nova Healthcare System here in the dmv. But they came in at one point and they were like, okay, well, now we gotta prick you every hour. And I'm like, prick? Okay, that's like diabetes, sugar stuff. I know that from family history. And then they're like, well, you're a diabetic, aren't you? And I'm like, no. And I freaked out. But come to find out that the IV they were putting in, which is steroid, kind of spiked my sugar levels. Then I had to get insulin, like, take it down. But it was in that moment that I decided, I cannot prick myself every day. I can't do all of that. So I immediately got on this health kick. So I'm like, down £10, which.
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C
Oh, congrats. That's fantastic. Thank you. Wow. Good job.
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A
I actually.
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C
Wait, hold on. This is like one month. That's. That's phenomenal. That's great. Good for you.
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A
When you put out all the soda and all the sugar and the Uber eats every single day, sometimes twice a day, you can knock it off. But for me, I'm actually keeping up with how many pounds of pressure that my body is now relieved from. So like it's like one pound of fat is five pounds of pressure released. So I'm like, I'm down, but 50 pounds of pressure.
- [24:11]
C
Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, fascinating. Yeah, Love it.
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A
Yep. So actually after this I'm gonna go use and put some stuff in and see.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Electronic tells me, but which goes to. If we want to use it and explore it and you know, with it this week, what do we do? Where do we go?
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C
I mean, so we are, we are and have been for a long time the number one search result. If you search for AI, Dr. We're number one. Our website is doctronic AI. We also have apps in the App Store and in the Play Store, just the Doctronic app. Again, we're free, we're by default anonymous. We're very private. We're hipaa compliant, unlike ChatGPT. So, you know, we're not trading off of your data. We're not selling your data like your, your data is yours. Right. This is, this is, this is a very, it's a very private thing to be talking about your health. And I think people, you know, are looking for an AI that will be sure to never do anything untoward with that data. So other than using it, if you want to see one of our doctors or using it with our AI, we don't do anything else with it.
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A
I love that. I'm definitely going to. I will admit in the past I've, I've used Teladoc, but now I'm coming to Dictronic. Okay, you have, you now have a believer. I'm moving on.
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C
Well, I think, I think we're half the price of Teladoc too, so.
- [25:33]
A
Oh, I don't even know. You need it, you need it, but half the price. That's good too. So, so that's good. Well, I have a question from you. You are what we call a genius, obviously. And so one of my previous guests, who is another genius, has a question for you which I think is quite timely when I first read the question, but given what we're talking about, the question is, should there be an AI commission to make sure that these AI systems are fact based and transparent?
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C
Well, I think it depends on the system. Right. Because if you're trying to build an AI to write a fiction story, it's not really going to matter.
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A
Right.
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C
But for healthcare, I think that that is a really good idea. And in fact we are already talking with a number of folks at the federal government because we have, because we have 22 million AI consults and we have tens of thousands of you in doctor visits. We kind of already know how accurate different models are and different fine tuned models are and different distilled and our models and different agentic flows are. So we've already had to build these tools and so we're working to kind of open these up so that there can be a way to understand, at least for us in the clinical AI nature, how safe and accurate various AIs are. So I think broadly there needs to be some sort of way for the government to say, yeah, this is a good way to gauge whether your AI is safe and accurate. Yeah.
- [27:08]
A
Yeah. Okay, good. I wasn't expecting that. But that is great because you know, sometimes co founders like, oh, we don't want that to kind of hinder, you know, innovation, et cetera. So I love the, the direct and candidness of your answer. I appreciate that Matt, so much.
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C
Awesome.
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A
Great. So let's go to Bonus Rapid Fire. I'm going to ask you four quick questions. You're going to give me the first answer that comes to mind, starting with what is the most overrated AI tech trend?
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C
People thinking AGI is coming anytime soon.
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A
Okay, elaborate.
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C
I mean, you know, I think that the folks at Google and the folks at Anthropic and the folks at OpenAI and even Meta, they're doing great stuff. Right? But building this, you know, the thought that we could have this like general artificial intelligence that just kind of understands everything and doesn't need any context and knows it all, I mean, that's far away. That's not happening anytime soon.
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A
Got it. Okay.
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C
We keep hearing that. It's like next month, next year, nobody
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A
love it. What about the most underrated tech or AI trend?
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C
Oh, I think AI working with all of your wearable data. Okay, so we've started to do a lot of that and that's the sort of, that's the sort of progress that we need. Right. Like you get all this great wearable data from your Apple watch or from your Oura ring or from who knows what else. Right. Having AI interpret that and help guide you, it's a big deal.
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A
And you said you're already doing that.
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C
We are, we are in the process of kind of solidifying that We've got that in some beta testing. Yeah, for sure.
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A
Got it. Amazing. Okay, well, we'll have to stay tuned for that. What is a book? We should all read a book.
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C
We should all read. Dealers of lightning.
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A
Dealers of lightning.
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C
Dealers of Lightning. It's about Xerox parc, which the, you know, the Xerox Palo Alto research center in the 70s where like they invented the mouse, they invented, you know, parts of the, like the fundamental microchips outside of some other thing like that. It was a research project associated with Xerox at the time and boy, they invented some great stuff.
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A
Got it. Okay, I'll have to check that one out. I love that.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Okay, now my last lightning round question is scare us. What is your biggest, boldest prediction AI
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C
prediction ever for like, for all of. All of the future or is there
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A
a time frame of the future or whatever? Just.
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C
Oh boy. You want me to be bold about this? That's a hard one. Because there are a lot of very bold predictions that I can make. How about this? It's not that bold, but it's in the next couple of years, right, I think we will see that self driving cars will be so much better than human drivers that it will start to be broadly more expensive to insure if you're a human than if you have a self driving car.
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A
Okay, all right. I haven't heard that one. I think I might like that. Cause I tell you when I'm on the road, I trust me my car and that's it. Everybody else is suspect.
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C
I hear you.
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A
Everybody else is suspect. And that actually came from when I was 16. I was in my. Just got my license and I was actually on the freeway and I wasn't going too fast, but maybe, maybe not paying quite as much attention. And the woman in front of me just stopped and I went into her.
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C
The freeway.
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A
On the freeway.
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C
Oh my gosh.
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A
On the highway, the freeway. And she went into the court system. We went to, we had to go to court. And she went in there with a brace and a cane and she won. Let me. We had to pay the insurance. Had to pay or whatever. And then we got in the parking lot, she took it off and said, ha, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I've been traumatized. That literally was 30, almost 35 years ago and I'm still traumatized.
- [31:13]
C
Yeah, that's a bad. Yeah, I haven't had an experience that bad. But I don't blame you for being traumatized by that. It's crazy.
- [31:25]
A
So I would greatly appreciate that prediction. For sure. Well, Matt, I have so enjoyed this conversation.
- [31:31]
C
Dr. T. So much fun.
- [31:33]
A
Yes, it was. And I know our listeners are excited about it and I'm pretty sure once we watch this, there's going to be a spike in usage of doctronics for sure.
- [31:41]
C
Nice. Love it.
- [31:42]
A
Including me, there's some things I want to use the free AI for and then of course parlay over to the, to the doctors. And I love this across all 50 states. What you and your leadership team has done is just amazing.
- [31:58]
C
Thanks.
- [31:59]
A
Really. So thank you for changing the world. Thank you for being a great example of the type of guest that I wanted to make sure that I have on the show.
- [32:06]
C
Thank you. This was so much fun. I appreciate it very much.
- [32:09]
A
Absolutely. All right, everybody, until next time, remember to lead with AI thanks for tuning
- [32:15]
B
in to lead with AI I'll see you next time as we continue exploring the cutting edge innovations shaping AI across the public and private sectors. Until then, keep leading with AI.