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From Burnout to Balance: How Sensei Helps Side Hustlers Build Dreams Sustainably
From Burnout to Balance: How Sensei Helps Side Hustlers Build Dreams Sustainably
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- [00:00]
A
Ever start a side hustle with big dreams only to find yourself juggling tasks, losing focus, and teetering on the edge of burnout? That's exactly the problem today's guest sets out to solve. Sahana Narendran is the founder of Sensei, an AI powered platform that helps side hustlers get things done, track their progress, stay consistent, and actually enjoy the process of building something on the side. Sensei just isn't about productivity, it's about sustainability. Making sure your dream project doesn't come at the cost of your peace of mind. Let's get into it.
- [00:46]
B
Welcome to lead with AI. I'm Dr. Tamara Nall. Each episode brings you behind the scenes conversations with brilliant minds advancing AI across the federal government. Together, we're exploring the projects and innovations, modernizing public service and creating meaningful change for the American people. Let's get started.
- [01:11]
A
Hi everyone. How are you? It's Dr. T, your host of Lead with AI and I am here with a fabulous guest. Before I introduce Sahana, let me just say thank you. Thank you. Thank you to all of you who listen every single week. Because of you, as always, we hit number one in technology on Apple podcasts and we can now claim that we are award winning because we won the W3 gold award for interviews. And so I'm just so excited and just want to thank you. What started off as just a simple dream has turned into everyone learning about all the AI products that are out there. And I am so excited to have Sahana Narendran here. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you at your core? What are you passionate about? And how did you even come up with the idea of Sensei?
- [02:05]
C
Awesome. Yeah, yeah. Who am I at my core? I think that's a question I really struggle to answer superficially. I'm a grad student at the University of Washington, Seattle. I study human centered design. But who am I? And what I'm passionate about is something I'm always exploring. I make music, I've written books. I love poetry. I like building things. I've been a co founder before of a socio tech company. I volunteer. There are so many aspects to who I am. Is why my 9 to 5 after. Sorry, my 5 to 9 after. My 9 to 5 is the most.
- [02:41]
A
Important part of my life now. Are you a side hustler yourself?
- [02:44]
C
Oh, a hundred percent. One hundred percent.
- [02:46]
A
Okay. Because I hear so much going on, so. And so I'm assuming that's kind of what led you to create Sensei.
- [02:53]
C
That's what I was going to Say yes. Awesome. So I would say being a creator, a side hustler, a solo builder are my core identity. I've been building things in my free time for about seven years now. So I started when I was 15. When I was 22, I kind of paused and looked back. I've been telling people I'm always building. People who know me know I'm always busy. But when I look back, I realized I did not really have a lot to show. Despite having spent 6, 7 hours every day doing something I was passionate about. I also realized I was 22 and I've spent all of my teenage trying to build something. I've missed so many dinners, social events, parties, friendship moments, trying to do something, build something. And I kind of, I was at this precipice where I realized I've grown old for no reason. I have, I've been built something productive. I haven't had a lot of fun in my life. This has to change. I forward. I want to build things I'm passionate about putting out there in the world, but without burning out while still being able to have a life while still being a college student, you know.
- [04:06]
A
Right, right, right. Yeah, that's good. I mean, because you're right, we go through life and then all of a sudden it's like, oh my gosh, all these years have passed. Like you said, memories lost, be it with friends, family, etc. Now when you say builders is sincere and I hear the word side hustle, but it doesn't mean you have to be like a developer of apps or anything. Right? It could be any side hustle, like social media, influencer, selling crafts, whatever.
- [04:33]
C
Yep. We're looking at people who are vibe coding, who are developing, who are building their personal brand, writing their first book, starting an agency, just about anything that helps you express your creative flow.
- [04:47]
A
Awesome. I love that. And what is it exactly?
- [04:50]
C
Tell us what it is about, Sensei. Yep. So I've been studying both my own workflow as well as a lot of other side hustlers in mostly Twitter's, build in public space, Reddit, discord, founders channels and all of that. And I realized a lot of side hustlers have a few key, key problems. The first is being able to turn their vision into action items. Unlike corporates, there is no top down planning, there are no epics and stories and like, you know, KPIs to hit. Mostly we just come to work every day. I sit in front of my laptop and I make a to do list of what I have to do and sometimes I don't really know what I have to do when I sit to work. I am probably changing the text on my website for the 10th time. I'm probably going through my emails. You know, if it sounds familiar, if you're nodding along, you know you need say so. The first thing Sensei does is it helps you turn your vision into high priority action items to hit every day. It won't mind. It's not AI telling you what to do. You're going to co design your to do list based on what your project needs at the moment. The second part to Sensei is now you show up, you take things off of your to do list and you leave. But Sensei behind the back, behind your back is going to use all of that data to help visualize how your project is growing in different dimensions. So if you're building a product, how far is research you know, done? How far have you developed it? Where is marketing at? Maybe you haven't focused on marketing. Maybe that should be the next to the item for you so you know that you're not doing busy work, you know that you're close to shipping. If I had had this growing up, I think I would have a lot more to show for all the seven years of work, you know.
- [06:39]
A
Right, right.
- [06:41]
C
The final part, desensi is it also helps you understand how often you show up. Are you really showing up every day? You know, do you just work all day Monday and then you're missing the rest of the week? If you are taking breaks then why maybe, maybe you're making trade offs that are worth it. Maybe you had fun and that is important. Maybe you took a day off to take some rest. That is important. So are you balancing how often you show up versus how often you take some time off for yourself? That's competent. Sensei headset.
- [07:13]
A
Oh wow. And let me tell you, we're very nosy people.
- [07:16]
C
Yeah.
- [07:16]
A
So if we wanted to open up the hood and look at the brain of Sensei, how does it work? I mean how does it. And when I say how I work, I mean like under the hood but then also just as a user or a consumer. How will it work? I know it's still in development stages but am I using prompts? Do I have to have my idea fully vetted and or can I just have like a one sentence idea walk us through all of that.
- [07:43]
C
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. In fact this progress visualization is exactly what I'm working on right now with a few other experts. So I'm just going to walk you Through a case study. Okay, let's take me as an example. I'm building this product called Sensei. What I'm going to do is I onboard myself onto Sensei and it says, hey, we're so proud of you for taking this first step. Tell me what building. And I'm going to tell you, you know, I'm building this product called Sensei and it does yada, yada yada. And now what it's going to do is awesome. Let's break it down into key domains for you to build. Sensei, what are different areas you have to focus on? And AI will suggest a few different areas, but you can go in and say, I'm going to pick three of those and add two of my own areas. And then you can always edit it later so it's very low pressure. Then, you know, you go in and you say, awesome, what do you want to do today? So you put in a bunch of list stuff on your to do list. Again, Sensei is going to act as your guide to say, you know what, user research is not specific enough. Can you get more specific? How many people are you going to interview? Are you going to survey? How many people are you talking to? So you're co designing your tasks, so as far as the user is concerned, this is literally all they're doing. And then they're going to finish the task, come back and take it off, maybe give some additional context on how long it took them that it's as simple as that. At the end of the day, before you go to bed, you open your progress, your progress feature and see what exactly you've done for that day, what exactly you've done the week past. You see how long you've showed up. But it's that simple as far as the users are concerned.
- [09:18]
A
Wow. And then in terms of my progress, how does it illustrate that for me?
- [09:23]
C
Sure, I will be honest, the visualization is something I'm still working on. But I will start with a metaphor that we're trying to translate into images. The metaphor is, suppose you're building a castle. There are all these different towers. Every day you come in there, you lay a few bricks. So what do you want to see is how far have the different towers grown? And if you're working on multiple different versions, what does your previous version of the tower look like and how far has your current tower grown? What are bricks you've laid that doesn't actually fit in the castle? You get what I'm saying?
- [09:59]
A
I love the illustration. I do. I really, really Love that illustration. That's amazing. And I think, you know, it's good for so many of us who are building to break it down in very simple illustrations, like a castle. I mean, who hasn't seen a castle, whether in person or in a book, Right. Or on tv, to be able to visualize it that way? Now, will it keep us honest? Meaning what if. Okay, I'm using Sensei to make sure that I'm doing like the high value tasks to really help me move towards my goal, but I still keep getting drawn into like checking emails and doing random things. That really isn't moving. Will it keep me honest? Will it be that, you know, mirror, if you will, to say, okay, I appreciate you did these things, but like, none of it moved you forward this today or this week, for sure.
- [10:48]
C
Yeah. Well, I guess there are two parts to honesty. One is you could be checking your emails all day and then you can come back and tell Sensei that I interviewed 20 people. So you're like straight up lying to yourself at that point.
- [11:01]
A
Right.
- [11:02]
C
At this stage, Sensei does not really have, you know, there's no way of getting around. If you're lying, you're lying.
- [11:08]
A
Yeah.
- [11:08]
C
Going forward, you know, in a roadmap, we do want to integrate contextual AI that actually does check, especially for things that are digital. It checks if you have really done what you say you're doing.
- [11:20]
A
Yeah, right.
- [11:21]
C
So that's.
- [11:21]
A
Yeah. And for me, it's like, I'm assuming that people are going to tell the truth. I mean, why go through this if you're not going to be honest with yourself? But I can see, because I even fall, you know, in this domain as well, is that I have the best laid plans and I have these five high priority tasks, but then I get an email and then I'm distracted and next thing you know, I've spent five hours in email and I, you know, for me, I want Sensei to be honest with me and say, you know what, Tamara, honestly, this week you were only productive for this project like 10% of the time.
- [11:56]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [11:56]
A
So like my cheerleader, hurrah, hurrah. To say, we can do better next week or something.
- [12:01]
C
100%. In fact. That is what Sensei Score aims. It's going to be like, whoa, girl, you spent 10 hours today, but all you've done is polished a tagline. Where did all go? So, like, no vanity metrics. That is one of the key, you know, value propositions.
- [12:17]
A
Got it, got it, got it. Now, again, I know that it's in development stage. But give us an example of like that holy smokes moment where you or a tester or even one of the other, you know, one of the developers, et cetera, was shocked at what Sensei could do and. And realize how powerful it is.
- [12:40]
C
Sure, sure. Yeah. So I've got to say, I've been building Sensei for about a month now. I launched the wait list less than a week back and we've already got. I haven't been able to market the wait list a lot. I'm also a student and I've had some personal life things to take care of. But despite Sensei is my side hustle. But despite all of that, we've got more than 30 waitlist signups just organically.
- [13:05]
A
Oh, wow.
- [13:06]
C
Which I think speaks to the power of how much people want a product like this. I'm gonna pull in a few quotes from some of the followers. There are people hitting me up every day, wanting updates, saying, oh, I want to test it. I want to be one of your first users. People did say, are, you know, so one of my users is also a dad. And he says, I love building what I'm doing, but I'm so addicted that when I have to go to my my child's school performance, I'm sitting there thinking about my product, but I feel like a bad father that moment. I want Sensei to say, hey, the last two weeks, you've done a hell of a lot of work on be there for your child.
- [13:47]
A
Right, Right. Oh, that's amazing. That's powerful.
- [13:49]
C
Yeah. And then another story would be, you know, somebody saying, somebody in my school, actually, she's part of an NF1 club. She's building a really powerful intelligent sensor for cars. And she says, I feel motivated to show up every day because my phone with me. But then I'm always doing low priority tasks and session. I feel like I've done five things, but I know I've barely done anything. And I'm going to BS the presentation, making it look like I did something. I feel so bad about myself, but I need guidance on where I started and what would move the needle.
- [14:25]
A
And since I would definitely move the needle on that.
- [14:28]
C
Yep, yep. That's. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I have so many more stories, but it's like, where do we cap?
- [14:36]
A
Right? Yeah, no, that's good. That's.
- [14:38]
C
Another user volunteered to pay. He was like, I would pay $50 a month if you could help me see how consistent I am and bring me back, motivate me to place a Brick on my hustle.
- [14:53]
A
Wow, that's amazing. And, you know, it really, the one thing that I love about Sensei is that it really is solving, like, a real world current issue of all of us just being kind of overwhelmed with what's going on and having, like, these goals, but then being that's like squirrel, you know, squirrel keeps going, and next thing you know, you're working on activities that are, you know, less kind of low value added versus the high value added.
- [15:20]
C
Yep. Yep.
- [15:22]
A
So tell me, Sahana, how are you thinking about ethics? Like, as you continue to build Sensei, what are your ethical considerations?
- [15:29]
C
Sure. Yeah. I think when I think about ethics, there are two key issues that come to mind. The first is religious data privacy, because these are people who are coming in, building something they're extremely passionate about. It's intellectual property we're dealing with in some sense.
- [15:45]
A
Yes.
- [15:45]
C
So their data on what they're building every day. There's a lot of trust they're putting in when they're telling Sensei about their process. So letting them know how we're using this data, anonymizing it, and making sure, you know, at some point, if competitors, if they're going to go big and competitors are finding what they've done, that's not good news.
- [16:06]
A
Right.
- [16:06]
C
Bad data privacy is definitely super important. Another key issue that comes up is more emotional. Let's say it has a lot of power to break somebody's willpower and guilt them, which is, I think, what a lot of productivity apps do without knowing. I think they are. They lead to some sort of mental health problems. You see all of these, like, not done, not done, not done tasks piling up. And then people see that they're overwhelmed. They feel like, you know what? I'm just not productive. I just cannot do enough. So Sensei has. The challenge is dealing with the challenge of telling people, nudging people to do more and be productive while not making them feel guilty for the moments they're taking for themselves.
- [16:55]
A
Yeah, yeah. No, that. That is actually very, very clever of you to think about that. I haven't thought about that, but it makes a lot of sense because it can impact the mental health of someone, you know, particularly if they're feeling like they've just kind of lost this wig or they've gotten bad news, and then they sign into Sensei and they're like, well, basically you've done nothing. You know, it wouldn't say you loser, but, you know, you get the point.
- [17:19]
C
We want people to come back feeling empowered when they Take a break and ready to get flying again. We don't want them to come back feeling drained for what they haven't done.
- [17:29]
A
Yeah. And I mean, research shows, as well as just my own personal. Like these breaks help. I'm actually more energized. I'm more empowered when I take some time and not just crash and burn. Crash and burn to get something done.
- [17:43]
C
Yep, yep. I would attest to that.
- [17:47]
A
Yep. Now, where do you see the big future for Sensei? Like, if you had to think five years out from now, three years from now, what is the game changing global impact that you see Sensei having?
- [18:02]
C
Yeah, I love talking about this. Okay, so I'm gonna go back to Tim Brown, one of the founders of ideo. In his book Change by Design, he talks about how. Let's go to economics for a second. Once upon a time, the world was full of creators and consumers. You had all of these small shoemakers and weavers. They're making things for people, also buying from other people. And then step. In the industrial era, we have creators versus consumers. There are big factories doing stuff and we're all just consumers. But now with AI coming in or other tools that democratize. Democratize creation. You don't need to be a movie house to tell a story. You can, you know, you can make a video on your iPhone, put it on your Instagram, and you're a storyteller. You're an influencer. You know, you have cursor building a product for you. You don't have to be a developer. So there's a boom in the creator economy and more people are going to be. We're going to see a fundamental shift where we're going to have everybody be a creator contributing to this economy. And I think Sensei is very fundamental. There are a lot of tools that are helping you through the process of creating. 0 to 1. But then there. There are two sides to that con. It's not about knowing what to do alone. It's also about having the personal strength to do it. You know, it's as much a. Creating is as much a discipline as it is knowledge. And Sensei takes care of the discipline side of it. I want more people. Everybody is creative. Everybody has a dream, has a vision deep inside. I want more people to be bold enough to take that first step, prove to themselves that I can do something 0 to 1. And I look at that as like a natural stepping stone to more startups and other things. So I'm powering the underworld of creators is, I like to think about it with Sensei.
- [19:56]
A
Yeah, that is really powerful. I mean, basically I have chills listening to that. That's amazing. That's absolutely amazing. So I know you're in the development stage, but I love to have a call to action.
- [20:09]
C
Yep, yep.
- [20:10]
A
So if people want to get on your wait list, what's the best way to do that?
- [20:12]
C
For sure. Like I said, I recently launched the wait list. It's available on you Sensei app. You just put in your email, answer a few short questions and you're on the wait list. Another way to get in touch is to follow me and my journey with Sensei on Twitter. A link to my Twitter or X is also on the waitlist page. So I could share a link with you tomorrow and you can put it up for our listeners.
- [20:38]
A
Yep, absolutely. And then are you also on LinkedIn?
- [20:41]
C
I am on LinkedIn. I have a love hate relationship with LinkedIn but I can share my profile. Yes.
- [20:47]
A
Okay.
- [20:48]
C
So very corporate. I feel like Twitter is for the, for the, for the creators.
- [20:53]
A
Makes sense. And you got to be who you are authentically. So I get it. But do the spell out the website for folks.
- [21:01]
C
Yeah, yeah. It's going to be U S E like use S E N S E I Sensei. So use Sensei app.
- [21:10]
A
Perfect app. Amazing. So I also have a question from you. So of course you are our genius for the week. But a previous genius has a question for you. And that question for you, Sahana is how do you protect your creativity from being consumed by your success?
- [21:32]
C
Ah, this is a, this is a brilliant question. And I'm not gonna lie. This is something I find myself actively struggling with. My day at this point is a lot of, you know, I have to do ABCD on a to do list. I have to talk to these people. I'm mentally so occupied by getting things done that I do feel like sometimes it affects my ability not just to create something spontaneously but also to appreciate something that is creative. Not part of that at all. And it's something I'm working on. Just one, one, you know, I would say like a tip or whatever works for me is surrounding myself with creative people. I'm lucky enough to have creator clubs like builder clubs in my school and I, I spend more time with them than I do with academic circles.
- [22:21]
A
Okay.
- [22:22]
C
And some of my friends are extremely creative. Like two or three days back at around 10pm we decided we're just going to take a train and go to the pier. We, we were outside, we were playing, you know, Billie Eilish. No Time to die. One of my friends was typing what are you afraid of? On his laptop and he's like dying on the ground. We're making a short movie of like how you got to do things before you die.
- [22:44]
A
Wow.
- [22:45]
C
And then we decided we would. Yesterday we were out in the city again. We said, let's interpret graffiti. How are people in the city having a conversation with each other anonymously through graffiti? So I believe surrounding myself with people who are extremely creative, have a lot of perspectives. And then going out there and doing something spontaneous, making the most of the moment. These have been my creative refill in my really busy schedule.
- [23:13]
A
I love that, you know, they always say you got to surround yourself by like minded individuals. I mean, not to the point where you all have the same views, but like to the point of, you know, being creative and just going out and making movies and doing interpretive graffiti. That.
- [23:31]
C
If I'm the most interesting person in the room or the smartest person in the room, I'm in the wrong room.
- [23:37]
A
Right. Love that. Love that. So now let's move into what I call bonus rapid fires. I'm going to quickly give you four different questions and then give me the first thing that comes to your mind, starting with what is the most overrated tech or AI trend?
- [23:57]
C
Yeah, this is interesting because the space is developing, we don't know which ones are going to take off, which ones are not. Personally, I felt like AI generated influencers are probably not going to make it past the moat. One of the reasons is I do marketing for Sensei and I see that it all comes down to trust and humanity. When people see that they're talking to a person who cares about the problem, they want to do it. But the moment you automate the marketing, people just feel like there's a mistrust it creates. And to me, AI generated influencers personify automated marketing. Marketing or pitching without humanity and care. So I'm very skeptical about that. I myself would never do that.
- [24:42]
A
Got it. Now, when you say animated influencers, I know there's like this in the music industry now. They kind of have AI generated song rappers and singers. Is that what you kind of mean?
- [24:55]
C
Well, I'm, I'm specifically talking about, I've seen AI bots take sales calls, take marketing calls, or like demo videos and all of that. But I have a take on what you're saying as well. I just don't know if it's relevant right now.
- [25:08]
A
Oh, okay. What's the most underrated AR tech trend?
- [25:13]
C
Hmm. Allow me 10 seconds to think about this. Yeah, once again, there are probably a lot of underdogs. I don't even know if I know enough about what is happening in the AI space to speak with clarity. But I would say something that is not extremely hype, but I find personally useful with Sensei and all of that is, you know, it's definitely, I think, what you'd call contextual AI. So the idea that you could have your products talk to other products out there in the ecosystem as well as use data about the user's past behavior, you know, and like other other things they do in their life to create a service that is very specific to them, you know, and their lives that, or to create a service that fits into their life's context, you know, it doesn't feel generic. I guess I'm making, I'm doing a really bad job of explaining this, but the way I see this playing out is if you're using Sensei, Sensei is going to look at the kind of goals you set, how productive you've been, or like how much you can do in a day, and then suggest your to dos, you know, based on whatever your workflow model is. Or if you have like an email, if you have sending out Slack, if you're posting stuff on LinkedIn, it's going to collect all of this data and then tick the to do item for, for you instead of waiting for you to come back and say I've done it.
- [26:40]
A
Got it, Got it. What is a book? We should all read so many books.
- [26:46]
C
I love books. But if I had to suggest, I would say Thinking Fast and Slow by Honeyman. Oh, this is so game changing, especially in today's era. For those of you who don't know, Thinking Fast and Slow looks at two different models of thinking. As humans, we either System one thinking is fast instinctive. It is me looking at a chocolate in a store when I'm checking out and saying, oh, I want that Lindor. And then system two is us taking the time to process and make decisions. When I'm, when I'm deciding to marry somebody that, you know, I'm thinking a lot, considering a lot of different possibilities. One thing I'd like to stop with is think. You know, we talk about system one and two. It's super relevant in today's age because I read a really interesting article about system System three thinking where AI, AI makes System two decisions. You know, System two decisions are thorough, well thought out ways, pros and cons at the speed of System one thinking instinctive.
- [27:47]
A
Okay, got it. Can you have the same decision to make and still use, you know, thinking 1, 2 and 3, meaning can I decide on a piece of chocolate quickly or slowly? Or can I decide to marry someone quickly and slowly?
- [28:03]
C
You know, as you at least according.
- [28:05]
A
Always one or the other.
- [28:06]
C
Yeah, yeah. According to Connie, man, humans always do one or the other. You cannot. Do you think you could meet somebody and decide if you want to marry them quickly? Most likely not. I, I, if anybody ever said I decided to marry these, this man in like five seconds, I would say, get out. You're not real.
- [28:25]
A
But I've heard of it, but I can't remember where I've heard, I've heard people say, when I saw her, I knew I wanted to marry her.
- [28:31]
C
But we have made the decision. It's one thing to instinctively felt that, feel that, and then validate it with a lot of, you know, and another to make the decision on the spot. If you're smart, you wouldn't do it.
- [28:45]
A
Got it. Okay, good. So I will have to definitely think of that book, but go ahead.
- [28:49]
C
Oh yeah, no, I was just going to say, even though humans cannot do it, AI is doing it. And what does that mean for humans competing with AI? Where would you want to hand off decision making to AI? Where would you not in personal and corporate life. I would be happy to put a link to that article as well. Definitely worth reading.
- [29:08]
A
Yeah, definitely send it to my team. We can put it in there.
- [29:10]
C
Yeah.
- [29:12]
A
And then the next question is, scare us. What's your biggest, boldest prediction?
- [29:18]
C
Yeah, I talked about this and I talk about it all the time. The fact that we are going to industrial era as we know it is breaking. We're going to go back to the creator consumer. Everybody's a creator. Everybody's a consumer economy. So if you're not creating, get out there, start building, start creating or you're going to be behind in this race.
- [29:37]
A
Exactly. And then they all, we all have Sensei to help us with it, so there's literally no excuse.
- [29:41]
C
Exactly. Which is why you should sign up for the waitlist right now.
- [29:45]
A
Exactly. Exactly. Well, Sahana, I have so enjoyed this conversation learning about Sensei. I don't know that I've ever considered myself like a creator in that way, but I mean, I have a podcast, I guess so are having side hustles, but I do have other different channels. So yes, I guess so.
- [30:04]
C
My eyes, you are. Yep.
- [30:06]
A
Yep. So I'm sure that the listeners like I have now have an awakening of how we can, you know, get our different side hustles done with Sensei. So thank you for all that you're doing. Thank you for all of your creative intelligence. And I just look forward to hearing how Sensei is going to continue to change the world.
- [30:31]
C
I would love to share progress updates with you.
- [30:34]
A
Awesome. Awesome. All right, everyone, thank you so much. And remember, until next week, Lead with AI.
- [30:41]
C
Bye. Bye.
- [30:44]
B
Thank you for joining us on Lead with AI. I'll see you next time as we continue bringing you stories that matter in public sector innovation.