The Compliance Lawyer Who Built an AI That Does Risk Assessments in Minutes (Not Days)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Lead With AI Episode: The Compliance Lawyer Who Built an AI That Does Risk Assessments in Minutes (Not Days)
Release Date: July 22, 2025
Host: Dr. Tamara Nall
Guest: Samuel Solberg, Co-founder and CEO of Hogo IO

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Lead With AI, Dr. Tamara Nall welcomes Samuel Solberg, the co-founder and CEO of Hogo IO, a startup revolutionizing compliance through artificial intelligence. Dr. Nall sets the stage by highlighting the critical issue of companies being unaware of how their vendors' AI systems handle customer data, labeling it the "biggest legal blind spot in AI" (00:01).

Samuel Solberg's Journey

Sam Solberg begins by sharing his transition from a corporate lawyer to a privacy consultant. He describes himself as a "recovering lawyer" who became deeply involved in privacy and GDPR after encountering complex data processing agreements (DPAs) early in his career (02:22). His frustration with the manual and repetitive work in compliance led him to co-found Hogo IO alongside a former colleague who shared his vision.

Identifying the Problem

Sam explains the intense manual labor companies face in managing compliance, such as chasing questionnaires, reviewing contracts, and maintaining spreadsheets. He notes, "The amounts of efforts and resources that companies were throwing at it to try to make that ping go away... was just insane" (04:46). This inefficiency not only drains resources but also increases the risk of non-compliance.

Hogo IO's Innovative Solution

Hogo IO leverages AI to automate risk assessments, transforming digital compliance from a blocker to an enabler for responsible innovation. Sam emphasizes that their tool "does automated risk assessments" which can evaluate vendors in "minutes, not days" (05:22). By collecting data from public sources and building comprehensive vendor profiles, Hogo IO provides actionable insights tailored to each client's specific needs (10:13).

Key Features and Customer Impact

One standout moment Sam shares is when a seasoned lawyer experienced with various solutions witnessed Hogo's automated risk assessment. He describes it as a "rewarding moment" because the tool provided specific, use-case tailored results that surpassed mere large language model (LLM) prompts (06:14). This efficiency not only saved time but also enhanced the accuracy and reliability of compliance assessments.

Addressing Ethical Concerns

Ethics play a crucial role in Hogo IO's operations. Sam explains that Hogo focuses solely on metadata, avoiding access to sensitive company or customer data. He states, "We have a human in the loop... verifies and we're experienced professionals" (16:59). This approach ensures that while AI handles the heavy lifting, humans oversee and validate the outcomes to maintain ethical standards.

Future Vision

Looking ahead, Sam envisions Hogo IO significantly impacting how companies handle compliance by integrating automated processes seamlessly into daily operations. He believes this integration will not only streamline compliance but also protect individual rights and societal values more effectively (17:47). Additionally, he foresees the reduction of manual repetitive work, allowing legal professionals to focus on higher-value tasks.

Call to Action

Sam encourages listeners to engage with Hogo IO by visiting their website, signing up for a free trial, or connecting via LinkedIn. He highlights the user-friendly approach of Hogo IO, offering both self-serve options and personalized demos without the pressure of traditional sales tactics (19:21).

Personal Insights and Predictions

In a personal touch, Sam shares his favorite movie, The Godfather Part II, relating its themes of building and resilience to his own experiences. He also recommends the book "Be More Pirate" by Sam Conniff, which inspires challenging the status quo and fostering innovation (21:11).

Regarding AI's future, Sam predicts that while the current hype around AI will settle, its true impact will emerge as manual tasks across businesses are automated. However, he warns of challenges in training the next generation of professionals, drawing an analogy to pilots needing manual flying hours before relying on autopilot (25:53).

Conclusion

Dr. Nall wraps up the episode by thanking Sam for his insights, emphasizing the transformative potential of Hogo IO in the compliance landscape. She encourages listeners to explore Hogo IO's offerings to enhance their own compliance processes and embrace the benefits of AI-driven solutions (29:03).

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Notable Quotes:

• Sam Solberg (00:01): "Today, we're pulling back the curtain on the biggest legal blind spot in AI."

• Sam Solberg (05:22): "Hogo IO transforms digital compliance from blocker to enabler."

• Sam Solberg (06:14): "You're not going to get that from just prompting an LLM."

• Sam Solberg (16:59): "We have a human in the loop to verify."

• Sam Solberg (25:53): "Manual repetitive work is going to disappear."

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Timestamp References:

• Clickable links can be created by linking the timestamp labels (e.g., 00:01) to the actual timestamps in the transcript if used in a digital format.

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This episode provides valuable insights into how AI can revolutionize compliance processes, reducing manual effort and enhancing accuracy. Samuel Solberg's journey from law to AI entrepreneurship underscores the practical impact of innovative solutions like Hogo IO in addressing real-world challenges.

Transcript

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Most companies have policies. Some even have privacy officers. But here's what they don't have. Any idea what their vendor's AI is doing with your customer data. Today, we're pulling back the curtain on the biggest legal blind spot in AI. One that could leave even the most sophisticated companies legally exposed, ethically compromised, and completely unaware. My guest is Sam from Hogo IO, a startup built by former privacy officers who got tired of watching companies get blindsided. They're using AI to fix the mess AI made. And trust me, what he reveals in his episode will change the way you look at third party vendors forever. This isn't just a legal episode. It's a warning shot. And it's one every compliance team, founder and board member needs to hear before the regulators do. Let's get into it.

[Sam Solberg]

Welcome to lead with AI. I'm Dr. Tamara Nall. In each episode, we will take you behind the scenes with visionary leaders shaping the future of AI across public and private sectors. Join us as we explore groundbreaking projects and innovations are transforming industries and making a real impact on people's lives. Let's dive in.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Hi everyone. How are you? This is Dr. T, your lead with AI Host, and I am thrilled to have Samuel Solberg here who is the co founder and CEO of Hogo. Sam, welcome. How are you?

[Noah]

I'm doing great. How are you? Thanks for having me.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

I'm. Yes, I'm amazing. I'm suffering from a little bit of jet lag because I've been a month and a half traveling and my body says it's 3pm versus 9am but we're gonna go. Hopefully. I look like I'm refreshed and you look extremely refreshed. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. So, Sam, we are excited to talk about Hogo, but I always like to first start with kind of a foundational question which is around you and what drives you at your core, like what are your core values and how did that lead to your founding Hogo?

[Noah]

Yeah, happy to share a bit about my background because I do think it's very important in the context of what we're building. It's not a hot topic. It's not people. People hear compliance or, you know, privacy or regulations, they're like, oh, I want to dive into that. So.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Most of the time they think about it after an incident happens.

[Noah]

Right. Not because they want to, because they have to. So it's not. There's not much joy in it or, or, yeah, excitement usually. So. So, yeah, I actually started my professional journey, I guess, as a corporate Lawyer? Yeah, I actually, I define myself as a recovering lawyer, even though that's been, I don't know how many years big law, you know, a lot of investments, M and a commercial, mostly in the tech sector. And then by chance in one of the deals I came across, it's called DPA in a processing addendum. And it just sucked me into this whole world of privacy and GDPR came, etc. Etc. And so yeah, this whole law lawyer thing isn't for me, it's limiting me also geographically because, you know, you don't practice where you, where you are accepted to the bar.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Very true.

[Noah]

And so I, so I moved to a consultancy and became a privacy consultant and an external data protection officer. Dpo, what's called, and I was serving mostly global tech companies and that's where me, my co founder was a colleague at the time, found this fundamental disconnect where companies, you know, need, they were innovating really fast, they want to innovate really fast. And then so, and then this cloud of regulations and the, the DPO and the lawyers come in, say, wait a minute, you can't do that, you can't do that, you can't do that. And, and that just, you know, it's a lot of pain that we personally felt while working at the consultants because we were working with them. We were also often the people saying, no, you can't do that. Well, we try not to do that. We try to say, you know, you can do it, but do it this way, don't do it the other way, or maybe don't collect all of that data, only collect part of that data, for example. Right, but the amounts of efforts and resources that companies were throwing at it to try to make that ping go away, especially when it comes to third party compliance, it was just insane, right? Chasing questionnaires, reviewing contracts, DPAs, constantly trying to keep spreadsheets updated across departments. A lot of manual repetitive work. And so we said, you know, there's got to be a better way for this. And the thing is, it's a very complex field or sector, so it's not something, you know, just like a quick technological fix around it. You can just, you know, build an API or whatever and just make it go away or, you know, build a wraparound.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Right.

[Noah]

And kind of.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Right, yeah.

[Noah]

So yeah, we start with kind of this vision of turning digital compliance from blocker to an enabler, what we call responsible innovation and also giving a competitive strategic advantage.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Now our listeners love, love, love, love to hear about moments. Aha. Moments so in this, I call it the holy smokes moments. And that is when, when do your customers, when do people first realize how great Hogo is and talk to us about that? That moment where it's like, oh my gosh, this changes everything for me. All of this complexity, all of this compliance, vendors, employees, data, and now Hogo is simplified. Talk to us about that.

[Noah]

Yeah, I like it actually. The holy smokes moment. We call it the aha moment. I guess that's more of the. Yeah, most people call it the aha moment, but the holy smokes, I'm gonna adopt that. Yeah, it's, it's a tricky one because it's so complex. It's not a simple aha moment. It's not a Hoko's not built for, you know, every, an everyday user. It's a B2B. It's pretty niche. We focus on in house and our.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Guests are B2B managers. They work in corporations and are dealing with these issues. So we have both consumer guests and those consumer guests on the personal side have that, but on the business side they're all professionals. So.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah, I always say that every B2B is a B2C.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Correct, correct.

[Noah]

Right. But it's a very specific, like we said at the beginning, right. Compliance is not something that people get excited about. So when you look at a company as such, there's, you know, there's a lot of data coming in, a lot of coming out, mostly focusing on tech companies, if you will, or data driven companies. There are data and there's a lot of sensitive and personal data. It's coming in from all kinds of departments being used for all types of different purposes. And then there's regular job requirements. You need to do abc, you need to have the report, you need to have an overview and you need to assess your vendors, your third parties, you need to know who you're sharing it with, where they're located, etc, etc. Etc. And that is a very time consuming process and usually is not done properly. And with Hobo, it's automated. The aha moment I think was one of our clients who was very experienced lawyer who I'm sure saw plenty of different solutions, saw the results of our automated risk assessment results, that output and his face was just very, it was a very rewarding moment because we put so much effort into it and to get that kind of output that is so specific based on their use case, their location, their company sector, everything was, was really a big moment. And yeah, that was, that was aha moment because you're not going to get that from just prompting an LLM.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Right. And then what did Hogo do for them? Like give me like some of the output that they, that, you know, not the specifics, because I know that that can be confidential. What did it do where it brightened up his face and was like, oh my God, these people have saved my job.

[Noah]

Yeah, it's, it's basically saved him from hours, if not days of collecting different documents, reviewing contracts. Got it back and forth, emails to the vendor asking questions as in who's your sub processes, where are they processing it, what types of data they're processing? All that is included in our, in our, in our profile. And it then conducts a risk assessment. So it tells them that this vendor has a third party in country X, make sure that the transfer mechanisms are in place. So it also gives mitigation steps and it also gives the reasoning behind the risk that's flagged. And then there's also different levels of risk. So you can accept the risk, you can mitigate the risk. There's a lot of options.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Got it. Okay. That helps paint a picture. That really does help paint a picture because you're right, it's very hard for companies to try to figure to give a risk profile to their vendors. I mean, they don't know all of this or that that vendor has, you know, business in a particular country, et cetera. So that, that's amazing. And then break it down, you were kind of talking about a little bit earlier. I mean, my guests are very, very curious. If we were to open up Hogo and look, you know, underneath the hood, how is it working? Is it that, you know, your customer has all of the vendor documents housed on, on their system and then you're tapping into Hogo, like how does it work?

[Noah]

So yeah, that's a really good question. So yeah, we have a different approach. We actually collect data from public sources, most of the vendors, website, but also other other sources such as news outlets, et cetera. And we build profiles. We have a database of currently about almost a thousand renders was constantly growing. And those profiles basically list or include all that information that somebody would need to conduct an assessment.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Got it.

[Noah]

Locations, third parties, et cetera. And that combined with the specific use case of the client, their size, their sector, et cetera, gets combined and based on that, the risk is assessed. So every use case is different. This is why it's so challenging to build a tool that actually delivers in this sector.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Right. And are there certain specific industries that you focus on over others Currently we're.

[Noah]

Focusing on, say by hr. It's tech companies. Right. So we're talking digital compliance. It's not just privacy. Also looking into other regulations. It's mostly EU regulations, though at this time, because in the US they're still not quite sure how to approach the topic.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Yeah.

[Noah]

Which is a whole nother, I think do a host podcast on that. So, yeah, HR tech provides platforms, customer service, fintech, also very relevant, Everything regulated. So it's.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Now, what if I'm a vendor and I'm a sneaky vendor, let's say my. There's not that much stuff out there.

[Noah]

There's a lot of those.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Okay, good, good, good. And then what if, you know, I just put up a basic website. How is Hogo going? How are you going to help your customer? If I'm intentionally doing this or maybe unintentionally, maybe I'm just too busy. How are you going to create a risk profile? And there's not that much public information on it.

[Noah]

So we have a, we have a benchmark as a minimum types of data that we need in order to conduct a risk assessment for the profile. We have this option of a vendor can go in and claim their profile and complete the information that's missing.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Got it.

[Noah]

And then also embed that on their website as a trust center. They can share it. There's a lot of different options. Or the client can send the vendor a request to fill out the missing information. So there's a lot of different workarounds, options that we built exactly for those cases because we're familiar with the vendors that have nothing on their website.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

And I guess that's a flag in and of itself. Right. If I'm not completing the information, if you can't find anything, if they're not answering the customers, that in two of itself is like a high red flag and probably would give the recommendation really to beware. Maybe not.

[Noah]

There's a differentiation between the ones that intentionally don't put the information on and those that just haven't gotten to it yet. And then we can say, we can talk about privacy, maturity, saying they're not mature enough to have all that information ready, or the ones that are sneaky and they're not providing it because they don't want to. So there's a difference there, but it is a flag.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Got it. Now, I believe that everybody kind of has a victory routine, a victory dance. I mean, you were a corporate lawyer, so maybe you went from case to case to case. Hopefully, if that was the case, you Change it. Now that you're a founder, you kind of gave us an example of the customer and his face lit up. We like another example. Like what is something where even you surprise yourself. Hogo surprised you. And you were sitting there kind of like, did I birth this? Did I create that? And if you want to give us your happy dance, you can do that too. Or whatever your victory cheer is. But what is that moment where even your product Hogo out produce what you thought it ever could?

[Noah]

I wanted to wait victory dance because maybe it'll make me happy. But anyone watching would get very upset because it's. I'm sure it's disturbing. I don't know. I haven't seen it that way. I think one of the main things that. Hobo. Yeah. Where, where I, I have envisioned it, but I, I didn't. Yeah, it's the branding and the UI and the ux. Because one of them, like I, I said from the beginning. Right. It's not a topic that people get excited about. It's boring. Any. Any platform out there is very corporate, cold, very technical. You know, you know, there's no, there's no user experience. There's no, people don't want to go into those platforms. And, and this is, this is. I can't take the credit for it. It's all my co founder Noah. She, she's amazing and she just came up with this brand and this and this and this. Yeah. Messaging his tone about Hogwarts and it just makes the whole experience so much nicer and I think that I envision it, but I didn't. I couldn't imagine that it came out so good.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Got it, got it. And I love that you gave her a credit for that. So what's her name?

[Noah]

No, no, she's, she's the coo. She's been. She was the, the colleague at the consultancy and.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Okay. Awesome. Yeah, no, that's awesome. Now there's a lot of ethical concerns. I mean, you are working with a lot of data, you're pulling a lot of data. How do you make sure that you're watching those ethical lines and remembering that there is like a human behind it all?

[Noah]

Yeah, it's a. Once the word ethic comes up, it's a tricky one because there's no clear definition, at least not one that I know of. So, like eth. Ethical lines. From the beginning, for numerous reasons, we said we don't want access to any company data, customer data, anything. We're metadata so that the actual risks of what we do on our End there aren't that many ethical concerns, let's put it that way. A company relying on us to choose ancestor vendors that could lead to ethical lines concerns. And so we do make sure that we always have for any significant results or outputs or changes there's always a human in the loop verifies and we're experienced professionals certificates us to grow. So I'm not going to get into the letters. So we, yeah, we have a human in the loop. We make sure to I guess you call it QA it.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Yep, yep. Yeah.

[Noah]

And also we make sure to amplify that we are assisting legal counsels, Internal Legal Counsels, DPOs, Chief Privacy Officers, what have you. We're not replacing them. We're getting rid of all of their manual work, the headache, the repetitive work. But we're not there to replace them. We're there to give them the time to actually focus on the more important stuff.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

More important high value task. Okay. That's what now let's talk about the future. What does the future look like? If you could put on your futuristic glasses, what does Hogo, the future of Hogo look like and what it's going to do and how it's going to change the world.

[Noah]

So I don't think it's going to affect the everyday person as much directly, indirectly. However, it's going to have a big effect because companies and this is what our vision mission is that it just compliance aspects of things who I strongly, which I strongly believe are they're there to protect our individual rights, our interests, our, our values, our society. And if companies have a way that it's integrated into the business, into the day to day where everything is happening, all the, all the manual, all the manual work is gone and they can actually use it as a competitive advantage then the regulations are better implemented and the individual is better protected. Yeah, making, making compliance, giving it the, the, the place it deserves without causing people to get frustrated and yeah. Pull out their hairs.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Yeah, no, I definitely get that. Now make us believers. You know a lot of people say they have a lot of products and for our listeners who do work for corporations, they are, you know, leading compliance departments and regulatory and vendor management, etc. What's something that they can do this week to really see, feel, believe in. In the power of Hogan.

[Noah]

Well, very easy. First thing you can find us on LinkedIn. Hogo, you can find us on the website Hogo IO. You can find us individually on LinkedIn obviously as well the founders, you can reach out to us directly over LinkedIn or an email to the website. Happy to get on a call, show you a demo. If you're not one of those people that like to talk to people and you just want to show me the product, I don't care, let me try it out. Well then you can go on our website and sign up and you have a seven day free trial. You can then test it, pop around, you know, poke around a little bit and then see if you're convinced. And you can always, you know, there's a, you can shoot us a chat on there through the app, through the platform and we can. There's also self serve. You don't even have to talk to anyone. You can convert automatically through the platform. You don't have to talk to anyone. This was one of my requests because I never wanted to talk to anyone. I didn't want those endless scale ass sales.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Whatever.

[Noah]

I meant more on the sales side. Right. It's like you, you check out a platform and then for three months you're getting. You like, can I offer you this? Can I. This like, I don't, I'm. If I wanted it, I would have converted. I so like, for me, I like just give that, that option for the self serve.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Yeah, yeah. And it's all in the captions. It's below, it's above, it's to the side Hogo. But it's H O G G O. And as he said, he has a version for the introverts and a version for the extroverts.

[Noah]

That's very good.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

That's amazing. That's amazing. So my next question is what I call from one genius to another. And that's where our, one of our former guests has a question for you. So your question is what is your favorite movie and why?

[Noah]

It's going to be cliche, I think, but I mean there's a bunch that I have on top, but there's one that I just can't. I could watch it over and over again. That's the Godfather.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

The Godfather, yeah, we get that a lot.

[Noah]

Oh really? Yeah, that's what I said before. Yeah, yeah. I would even say the Godfather two. More than one.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Okay.

[Noah]

Because it, I don't know. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, it's the story of the father, how he came to America and how he built it. I just relate to it a lot from a personal life. I was moved to a new country at a very young age and had nothing and, you know, no family. And then you just, you start building and start building.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Yeah.

[Noah]

It also gives like a different perspective on what many in society will call like you know, the bad mob. As in wait, there's a reason why he had to do what he did. Right. You have to survive. He had to 10 for his family. He could, didn't have any other opportunities in, in the new country. I'm not saying they were great, but there's. It gives a new perspective on, on, on. On how society sees certain groups and situations. That's my intellectual answer.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Yeah. Okay. All right, let's do the bonus rapid fire most overrated T AI AI. Okay. Okay. Most under hyped AI breakthrough explainable AI explainable. Okay, go go explain that.

[Noah]

Explain some mansplain it or explain it I don't know too much about. So like I said, I'm a corporate law in the background, not a techie but the concert of AI. If you're looking at LLMs, you throw in an input and you get an output. You don't know why that output is what it is. So explainable. AI is basically.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Got it. Yep.

[Noah]

And it's extremely important especially in a legal.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Oh, it is. In a legal system it's important to know the sources. To be able to validate is very, very important because people use the results as the bible and so it's, it's really good.

[Noah]

And this is why we don't, we don't, we don't rely on LLMs blindly. We have rag in place. We have all kinds of different mechanisms that make that not an option. The hallucination is not an option in a legal sector. You can't, you can't rely. You know, there's plenty of cases of.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Right.

[Noah]

Where cases, actual law cases were quoted that didn't exist.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Exactly. And people lost their, their, their ability to practice too. Yep.

[Noah]

Just a fabulous slide. Say.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Yeah, no, absolutely. What's one book everyone should read?

[Noah]

So this one's not going to be a classic. It's actually a book I am currently reading towards the end of it. It's called Be More Pirate.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Be More Pirate, Be More Pirate.

[Noah]

It's a book written by Sam Conife I think is the name. And it's basically challenging the perception kind of what I said about the Godfather too, I guess of the mob and how people was society perceived the mob, what they were bad. And he's basically challenging also the concept around pirates that. But he's saying that pirates were ahead of their time. They were fresh ones to you know, offer equal pay and social benefits and etc etc and he's basically transferring that to Today, modern corporate if you want, but also other areas and saying that, you know, you should be more power, you should be challenging the status quo a bit more. Don't, you know, give everything, don't take everything as is. And it could be small, it could be small things. It doesn't have to be, you know, you have to go out, do a revolution, start a revolution. But it's small things as in, okay, so, you know, that manager always gets involved. Why?

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Yeah, right.

[Noah]

Is there a reason for that? So, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's something I also relate to. Be more pirate. Yeah, actually, so do a presentation, very energetic guy. And yeah, it's definitely a nice read.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Awesome. And then tell us your biggest, boldest AI prediction.

[Noah]

A boldest. I think, I think it's the hype and the hype's gonna die down and people, and I think it already is. People are starting to understand that. Okay, it's not just, it's not, you know, the game changer that everybody thought.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Was going to be.

[Noah]

And it's not going to make everything go away by just throwing a little bit of AI on it. But once that's settled, I think the. Everything that's in the business world anyway, in a business context, any of that manual work is going to disappear. Manual repetitive work is going to disappear. Having said that, I also think that that's at a big risk for society. Not risk, but challenge. Because at least in the legal field, the juniors are doing all that manual repetitive work and that's how they learn, that's how they gather experience. And if we get rid of that, how do we teach juniors or how do juniors learn? And if we don't have new juniors, how we're going to have new seniors. So.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Right. Yeah, No, I like that. No, I like that perspective. And, and one that definitely people are talking about in terms of being able to. To think intellectually and creatively.

[Noah]

Critical thinking is definitely. I already see that sadly going. I mean, there's always a challenge of finding somebody that really does critical thing because it's different critical thinking than challenging for the sake of challenging. Right. It's actually understanding the other side but then questioning it instead of just saying, oh, the other side said it. So now I'm going to say no.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Right.

[Noah]

There's a. I heard an interesting analogy actually about pilots where if you want to get a pilot license, you have to actually fly those small manual planes and you have to fly them for a certain amount of hours. I don't know about the States, but anyway, don't fact Trick me on this. But I heard somebody say, and he was a pilot so I'm assuming. And you need to have those hours in before you can start flying a plane on autopilot and you need to constantly go back and redo the hours for the manual. And it makes so much sense because you, you're. If you know the manual, you can handle the autopilot but not vice versa.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Yeah.

[Noah]

Like a middle ground, I think of, of the juniors, I guess where you. Right, okay. Do the manual. Once you have that figured out, we'll let you play around with the AI.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

Yeah. And particularly given what we're seeing a lot with a lot of these plane incidents too like, you know, and the ability of pilots to be able to, you know, in that emergency situation to figure it out. So. But Sam, I've really enjoyed this conversation. So for everyone, Hoggo IO he's mentioned you can find him, his co founder, the company on LinkedIn. Are there other social media platforms that you're on where we can find you?

[Noah]

I think there's a little bit on links, but mostly on LinkedIn. We're mostly LinkedIn.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

LinkedIn. Yep. That's, that's the go to. So we really appreciate the time and we look forward to our listeners trying Hogo out and improving, you know, their internal communications and their internal operations. So thank you so much.

[Noah]

Thank you, Tamara. Thanks and have an amazing day.

[Dr. Tamara Nall]

You too. Thanks. Bye everyone. See you soon.

[Sam Solberg]

Thanks for tuning in to Lee with with AI I'll see you next time as we continue exploring the cutting edge innovations shaping AI across the public and private sectors. Until then, keep leading with AI.