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- [00:04]
A
Welcome back to the Lead Worship well podcast. My name is Stuart, and I'm honored to be a part of the team here@multitracks.com today, we get to hear from Phil Wickham about his newest album, Song of the Saints. We talk about the significance of this album, his story of leading worship over the years, and the joys and challenges of leading worship all over the globe. I hope today's conversation encourages you. Well, Phil, thank you so much for joining us and sitting down, having a little bit of a conversation today.
- [00:34]
B
Oh, it's an honor to be on. Thanks so much for having me.
- [00:37]
A
Yeah, of course. Where are you joining us from?
- [00:40]
B
My hometown, Encinitas, California, which is San Diego County. I was born and raised here a little bit in Orange county growing up, but been here pretty much my whole life.
- [00:49]
A
Nice. That's great. Kind of being close to home. I'm just outside of New York, Nashville, myself. Family's a little far, but I love it, so it's good. Well, congratulations on your 10th studio album. That is a huge milestone.
- [01:02]
B
Oh, thanks, man.
- [01:03]
A
Yeah, it's been. It's been awesome. One of my favorite parts about getting to sit down and have these conversations is I get to kind of live with new releases for, like, a week or so in preparation. And so I constantly get to hear these new releases and get to talk about the heart behind it. But. Okay. So I. When I. When I heard, I was like, okay, I'm gonna get to talk with Phil Wickham. I was like, okay. I have one question I've always been dying to ask. I wanted to know what the secret sauce is behind just releasing banger after banger after banger for, like, every church opener ever. Like, it's like, you're, like, the one constant, like, if there's gonna. But beyond, like, having a Nord in the room is like, if you need an opener, Phil Wilcomb has it for you.
- [01:44]
B
Oh, well, that's honestly super sweet to hear. Cause I guess because I grew up in a worship leader's home, my dad still leads worship at the church I grew up at. He's so faithful. And then I've been leading worship at church since I was 13 years old. And there's a lot of different things that we rely on. A good drummer and other guys and all that stuff that we need. But one thing that's just kind of always this underlying thing for all of us is, like, goodness gracious, if I had more than two or three upbeat songs that my church would sing, that'd be great, because just that upbeat opener. And, you know, there's lots of great ones out there. I remember. I remember when they would come out and you're like, yes. I remember opening the eyes of my heart back when I was in. I must have been a freshman in high school or something. Just like, open the eyes of my heart. It just had. It was obviously so anointed. It was simple. Everybody in the room could sing it. But it was, like, also something that made a lot of sense for when the gathering of believers happens. This is what we sing at the top. Like, this is our prayer, you know, and so it didn't. Wasn't fluffy, but it was hooky. And I think when this is Amazing Grace was written and it kind of happened, which was a total wild thing. I didn't expect that. That's a whole nother. That song was written, like, two years before it was even recorded, and I forgot about it and made its way to different empty ipods at the time, you know, people were passing it around. Then Jeremy Riddle got it, and he rewrote the verses, like, hey, I don't. I think you're the writer of this song. Can I sing it on a Bethel record? I was like, I don't remember that song. But fine. You know, it just, like, that has its own story. Anyway, so that happened, and it became this kind of upbeat song that I just realized, wow, this is so useful for me. And I got such a flood of thanks from worship leaders back that was like, 2013. Just saying thank you for writing a song that's. We love playing, we love singing, but it's full of the gospel and truth, and. Not that those didn't exist, but it just made me realize, oh, there's a huge. A huge hole to be filled here. And so I think, man, If I got 10, 15 songs on a record, that then at least one of them, I. I Want to write 7 and choose the best one out of those, just so we have, like, one new one for me personally in my church and for me to start a concert off, but also hopefully serve the church, you know, serve worship leaders. And so it's just been like. It's honestly, like, all the other songs are kind of come spontaneously or like, this is what's on my heart, or God showed me something special. It's really enlightened my heart to sing about this truth or this aspect of God. But then there's like, okay, let's write some upbeat songs. And, like, we. It's like, we get to. That's like, let's. Let's put our work hats on. Let's really do it well here. And so the king is in the room was one of those on this record that just felt like. That feels like something I would want to say to remind people, like, what we're doing here. Let's wake our hearts up to the reality of God's presence and what he can do. And another one that came in, like, in the 11th hour was this song called so, so Good.
- [04:33]
A
I love that one. Oh, so I love it.
- [04:35]
B
I love seeing it so, so much. And what's funny is that song. Okay, can I tell you a little bit of the story behind that one?
- [04:42]
A
Yeah, please, please.
- [04:43]
B
I want to know. Okay, this is a whole. Another tangent we're not really talking about, but I get. I'm voicing a character in a full animated movie of adult David. There's a movie coming out in 26 called David, and it's fully like. It's like an $80 million animated movie.
- [04:58]
A
And wait, I had. Had not heard about that.
- [05:00]
B
I know they haven't started marketing it yet, and it's. I got to see it for the first time a couple weeks ago. They killed it. Like, it looks like Pixar did a movie on David. It is so awesome. That's awesome. And there's songs, and it's like I was terrified and excited at the same time doing it, and I still am. They had reached out, said, hey, they're looking for maybe a song that's, like, about the goodness of God for the credits. And if you want to think. Be thinking about that. And I was out on tour at the time. And so right before soundcheck, my manager called me and said, hey, if you have anything like that might be worth it writing for that, like, or just even pitching, it's like, okay. So I went out on stage, I had my guitar, and I was, like. Started kind of, like, humming. And I went, you so, so, so. And I sing that so, so good to me, Michael. That's kind of cool. And then I went like, well, I want to just write a worship song. I don't want to just use it for the credits of this movie. I want to make it full worship because I loved it so much. And then the next week, I was planning on being in Charlotte with Elevation to lead there. And then I had a couple days planned with their team and Stephen to write which Stephen is such a great songwriter for the church. I don't think people give him enough
- [06:09]
A
credit, the impact he's had.
- [06:11]
B
It's crazy the way he knows how to get something say something in such a moving way. And so I showed him that at the beginning of the thing, he's like, let's finish it, you know? And then he was like, actually, me and Brandon Lake had this idea. When I stop remembering how good you've been. We just mashed those two ideas together and. And then in the study before Stephen did the God is good all the time thing. All the time. God is good. Yep. And I was like, well, what if that's just the bridge? He's like, there's no way we can write that as a bridge and it not be cheesy. Like, let's try, you know? And so. So it's like we're like doing. And it was super cheesy. And so I'm like, well, I literally said out loud. I was like, how would Chris Martin do it? You know? And I was like, when I say you say all the talking is good. I was like, it kind of landed in different chords. And I was like, oh, you know. Anyway, so that was like, I tell that story because I would imagine other worship leaders and songwriters would think that's interesting. Songs just come together when you're generous and open handed. It just was meant to be. So I'm so thankful for that upbeat song. So I've got two on this record that, that I've played so far and they seem to work as first songs of worship sets. So I'm so thankful to have a couple more.
- [07:21]
A
Man, that's awesome. It's kind of funny because, you know, as I was, I was preparing for this conversation, I went back and I was like, dude, I've like grown up with Phil Wickham songs in the church. Like, I was kind of a late bloomer in terms of starting to go to church and like, making faith my own and. But it's like, I look back and I was like, man, like, I remember this is Amazing Grace. Like, I remember singing that with like, my parents when I was little and like. Or like, you know, I remember, like going through. It's like I can see like the phases of my life through church and through ministry based on, like, which. Which Phil Wickham opener was like the one that we were singing all the time at the time.
- [07:53]
B
Oh, that's amazing.
- [07:54]
A
But I did. I did actually briefly want to talk about that because, I mean, it's your 10th studio album, which is. It's a huge. It's a hu. Milestone. I mean, you've been doing this for a while and like, you've had such a huge impact and large reach. Like, I remember the Summer I gave my Life to Christ. The song that really was impacting me at the time in my, like, just the infancy of my. My belief was, you're beautiful. Listening to this album was like, oh, okay, now I gotta go listen to that one again. It's like, I went back on this journey, but I wanted to kind of ask you a little bit, like, as you have hit this, like, huge milestone and you've been doing this for so long, like, what comes to mind for you when you look back about. You've released ten full studio albums. You've been leading worship since you were really young. As you look back, like, what comes to mind for you?
- [08:43]
B
That's a broad question. I think what comes to mind first is. Is the grace of God. I do feel that I have grown closer and closer to God over my life and weeded out things over the course of my life as I've grown that just whether they were obvious or inobvious, little by little, I'm still doing it. Just the things that so easily ensnare so I can run with endurance, you know, But I'm. No one is more aware of my deep need for God's grace than me. I am so on my own merit, unworthy to be given the platform that I've been given, whether it's just in my church or, like, at risk of sounding gloaty or something, it's. It's kind of a global church platform now, which is wild. You know, these. These songs are. Within a week after their release, songs are translated into other languages and get videos of Korean churches and Brazilian churches singing these songs. And many. And 99% of these people have no idea who Phil Wickham is, you know, just maybe the worship leader. But I just see now there's a responsibility and. And a trust that has been put at. At some level, and I don't take it lightly at all. I actually, I walked in it in fear and trembling. But your question was, what do. I look back? I see God's grace. I see how undeserving I am, and yet how kind God has been to continue to forgive me and to let me be a voice for him. And I just stand on stage, like, more humbled. And I'm not saying the things a good Christian guy should say. It's really true. It's more humble than ever that I get to be a part of people's lives in a growing number over these last 10 albums by giving people new thoughts. And ideas and words to pray to Jesus. It's just got. It's so God's kindness and grace. It was never, like, a dream for me. Like, I was always a reluctant stage guy. Like, not because I was even holy or because I. Just because I was kind of shy and, like, I was fine to be the local worship leader at the church. You know, I didn't even want to do my first independent record. My dad kind of like, asked some rich people for money in the church and said, hey, you know, not really. Like, some honestly wealthy people were like, why doesn't Phil have an album yet? When I was 19, this before I was signed, and my dad's like, well, they're expensive. And, you know, my dad was making a worship leader salary, and so someone gave us money to do it. And I was reluctant. I thought, no one's going to want to listen to this. And. And just little by little, God just opened up doors. And I really just try to be faithful. But, yeah, it's just God's kindness and grace, and I love doing what I do. Doesn't mean it doesn't come without its sacrifices or weird moments or family. You know, family takes a hit sometimes. Or random people show up at my front door because they found out my address. Like, which is funny, but it's actually scary, you know, in the moment. For my kids, it's like, what's going on right now? Like, you know, so the more public things get and the more people even try to misunderstand things or throw me in a box, this and that. And just. I just, like, I just really. I just. Lord, protect your protection. Thank you for your grace. And I hold this all with so much fear and trembling. Lord, fight against any ego or selfish ambition that so easily crops up, you know, to the point where now it's like, lord, do you want me to post this? Like, this is. This is me singing awesome God with 18,000 people. Like, part of me wants people to see that this is happening because, like, look at this cool thing I got to be a part of. Lord, please help me have a heart. Please have me have a heart that it doesn't want. Care about growing my own brand that the entrepreneur in me wants to. You know, and not that that's bad in some senses, but just, Lord, give me a kingdom. Ambition first. And I'm so thank. I feel like over this last year that that prayer has been answered in a really clear and way that I'm really thankful for. But even though these last couple weeks, as it's in real time. We're just coming up on October 2025. If someone's watching this later, and there's just. We've just been face to face with. There's always been darkness in the world, but we're just face to face with it these last couple weeks, and the division of the church and the killing of innocent people, even within the church, the perspectives and misunderstandings and judging and just like, lord, help me be a voice of just Jesus. Like, I want to be a voice that raises the banner of Jesus. There's nothing I need to explain away. There's nothing I need to. I don't need to defend myself because I could just point at what I do, and it's raising the banner of Jesus and preaching his gospel. Lord, please continue to refine me. And if there's any. Like, even lately, like, dude, I'm getting into it right now, but even lately, go for it. We're just even trying to figure out new ways of, like, how to sell, like, the ticket thing. It's like, how do we make things free, you know? Like, how do we do it different? How do we just. I just think Jesus is coming back soon and soon could be a hundred years soon, could be tomorrow. But I just think he's coming back soon because he said it. And soon. Whatever soon means to him, I want to run well and more than ever, just want to preach Jesus, you know?
- [13:48]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [13:49]
B
I don't even know what you asked. That's what I think about. No, no, no, please.
- [13:53]
A
Thank you for sharing. Actually, you touched on something that I did kind of want to ask you about because you' a unique position as a worship leader. Almost like. I mean, I'd almost term it as, like, you're like a worship leader of worship leaders. Like, you're pastoring such a large body of, like, such a large portion of the body of Christ. I mentioned earlier, like, you've had such an impact on my journey in the church, just, like, through your songs. We've never met, but, like, I feel like you've had an impact on my faith through, like, the songs that you've equipped the church to sing. But I wanted to kind of ask you, like, with how much you have going on, like, you. You just finished your. Your summer tour. You just released an album. You're preparing for another tour. I think with Air1. I think Air1 worship nights is. Is coming up.
- [14:36]
B
Oh, yeah. It's gonna be. Not pumping it up. I'm just like, Charity Gail. Goodness, Grace. She's gonna. She's So I didn't really. I knew her from a distance. I'm like, man, there's a purity and authenticity here that I'm really. I'm really. My heart is attracted to. But I got to be in a room with her for the first time. We played at the same festival. It was so awesome. It made me so stoked for this tour. She is so pure. And even when we were making content for the tour, it's so great because I'm just used to. I'm used to. I'm equally very serious in my heart. And I'm also. If you come to one of my shows, I love jumping around and I love being dumb and silly and I'm just like. Just me. So I don't really even think. I'm like, yeah, let's make a reel about your song. I speak Jesus. And we'll be like, Jesus from the mountains, but it'll be your audio. She's like, like. Like a music video kind of thing. I'm like, no, like a real. For like. She's like, is that kind of like a tick tock thing? I'm like, I don't. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe someone. She's like, if. If it's like, tick tocky, I don't want to do it. I was like, you got it. You know, I'm like, that's like, how. Fear not, like in. In a religious way or like, I'm. I'm good. Just keeping it simple. Like, let's. And she's like, let's worship together and film that and we'll post that. I'm like, that sounds even better.
- [15:47]
A
You know, that's awesome.
- [15:48]
B
I love that. I know. It's great. And so. And then Benjamin William Hastings, who is so prolific and has such a really sweetheart for people in Jesus. And then Josh Baldwin, who's. I've told him this. There's maybe three guys, three or four of people that I put on just because I know their hearts and when I want to be led in worship, like when I'm on a run or when I'm in an airplane. And Josh Baldwin is one of them. He's just so sweethearted. And I think he's one of the most. Honestly, I don't think underrated feels weird because I'm not like people are rating us all, but I think his songs and his voice should be listened to even more so than already is. Anyways.
- [16:28]
A
I've always loved his stuff. Yeah, no, that's really. You even got a. I think you even have Another tour coming up after that, like, in the spring, like, you're going all over the place. You've got a lot going on. But I wanted to ask, because you have all this going on, and even with us as worship leaders were in a very. No matter, like, where you're at, like, you're in a very visual pastoral position. You're on the stage, you're on the front, you're leading the body of Christ. Like, how have you over the years put your relationship with God and your family first? Especially with, like, how often you're on tour and how many things you've got going on. How have you kind of cared for your soul in a way that's just worked for you?
- [17:09]
B
There's a few answers to that, and I'll try to. I feel like I'm talking so much.
- [17:13]
A
No, please.
- [17:13]
B
First of all, I think that even though. Yeah. You pointed out there's touring and stuff, man, almost everybody's life, unless you're, like, single and 20 years old and just, like, kind of going to your college classes, you know what I mean? Like, once you get in the family, once you have kids and job, everybody can get so busy. Like, we all can be as busy as we want. And so, yeah, I've been in public eye and all that stuff. But, like, you could. I could ask you the same question. Like, in the craziness of life, I could ask my neighbor who's selling medical equipment across the street that has his job. Like, if we're not intentionally seeking the Lord, like, we all have a choice to make. Like, are we going to get wrapped up in the business of life? Or we're going to give. Give God a moment of rest for him to speak his truth and his love and his voice. So that. I mean, it's so basic, but, like, having moments with God every day, asking him to literally infiltrate, to invade my life. Like, I give you opportunity to animate. If you could just animate me, Holy Spirit, like, just say the things through me you want to say. And be my strength and my shield. And I want to. I want to be united in you, you know, just like Jesus says, I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me bears much fruit. You know, just trying to understand more and more what it means to abide in Jesus. And I think a lot of that is a mental, a constant, like, renewing your mind in a place for you. Like, okay, what does heaven want? What is the ambition of heaven in this moment? How do I bring heaven to my home right now how do I bring Jesus into my relationship? Right now I'm really annoyed at my kids for the mess they made. Like how do I. How do I show them Jesus? Right now? Right now my wife is 20 minutes late and she said she's going to be on time. How do I bring Jesus right now? Right now I'm not in the mood to get on stage because there's something happening at home. I over committed and my wife is missing me and she's kind of. She's feeling like I've put other stuff before her and maybe I have. Lord, help me to see you and help me to learn from this. And so I think life is. It's not like I've learned. It's never. I've learned it. I think life is like a tightrope in that way. And, and we're on a balance and we're constantly making. Okay, okay Lord, I see. Okay Lord, I see you want me to go here? Okay, Lord, I see. You want to go here? Oh, I've learned from this. I'm going to apply it. I'm actually really thankful for 2020 in that way because I think I was saying yes to a lot of stuff because I felt like it was my duty to. And also I was nervous about. And this is just me being real. I was nervous about if I don't say yes, maybe there's not going to be stuff in the future. I need to provide for my family. I think I can actually get really. And I do believe I've grown quite a bit out of this. But especially in my 30s, growing up with a scarcity mindset and needing like some money in the bank account to make me feel secure was something that I, I had to like really be extra giving to help to combat over the years, you know, so those kind of fears driving things and I just. After 2020, it's like, man, Lord, I never want fear to define any decision. I just want your holy spirit to lead me. Not that I've always been perfect at that, but like 2020 taking a step back and things actually got bigger without me doing anything. I'm just like, wait, what's happening? Battle belongs and Hymn of Heaven is coming out and people are like connecting with these songs in ways like I've never like, this is crazy. So that was a really cool learning experience for me that even after that we, we started touring way different. Being out almost only one week a month is kind of was our new touring thing.
- [20:31]
A
I love that.
- [20:32]
B
Yeah, it was. Which was tough to do, Tough to figure out and not economically working in the. In the traditional way. So we had to be okay, how do we make this work economically? And, you know, all that stuff because the family's important. So all that being said, it's a balancing act. It's time with Jesus every day. It's having an amazing wife who reminds me anything I post that she doesn't have the fragrance of Christ even she'll see it. She's like, that needs to come down. Like, it feels so you, Phil. Or like, man, I look through your feed and it's like, 17 pictures of your face in a row. Like, it needs to be less you. And I'm like, you're right. Like, and I'm not even in control of it. I just have people doing it. Like, now I don't even know how to log. I don't have a TikTok logon. I don't know how to log on to my or Facebook anymore. I don't know even know how to get on my Facebook. So hopefully they're all posting good stuff.
- [21:16]
A
Yeah. Honestly, I wish I could get off Facebook.
- [21:19]
B
Yeah. I don't know how to get. I don't. Literally don't know my login.
- [21:23]
A
I love that perspective. Like, same for me in, like, 2020, life was so outside of our control. Like, there was so much that I had no control over. And at least in my life, I've found that, like, that's usually where I find God. Like, every time when I reach the end of my ability to control something, that's where I meet God. Like, every time. Like, he's always there, like, right at the end of my rope. He's right there every single time. That idea of, like, surrendering to control and, like, well, you know, I could try to make this work on my own. And I'm probably gonna exhaust myself. I'm probably gonna try extend myself beyond my limits. But God's always there at those moments where we feel out of control.
- [22:02]
B
So true, man. Good word.
- [22:03]
A
I appreciate that perspective. I did want to ask. So you have a song on this new record. What an awesome God, which is awesome. Like, I was listening through, and I arrived at that song, and I was like, this. This feels familiar. Why does this feel familiar? And then, like, the chorus hits, I'm like, that's why it feels familiar. In listening through it again, like, hearing that song come back again, I realized that it's, like, really special to me because my dad was in the military, so we moved all over the place. Like, every two years, we're in a new city. And my dad was never really like, a very expressive in worship, but for some reason, that song, that Michael W. Smith song, I have a deeply tied memory to my dad singing that with, like, everything that he has. And that song has, like, become linked to, like, how I view the faith of my dad, like, in God. And so hearing that come back this week was such, like, a beautiful moment for me. Like, I gotta hear the story behind it. I gotta hear the story about how that happened. Because, I mean, even, like, you have to record a version of it with Michael W. Smith. Like, I would love to hear how that whole song came about.
- [23:06]
B
Yeah, I mean, that's been a special one. It's been so fun to lead that one again every night. So the record's called Song of the Saints. And we had an idea. It's just like, what if throughout the. The record there were little moments of a cover or, like, where we, like, we do it with. Because he lives. There's a moment where we sing because this, uh, we. We kind of tweaked. When I survey the wondrous Cross at the end, we even added like, a chorus of the Stand towards the end too. We took from the Apostles Creed. We're taken from all these different eras of the church that this. That the saints have been singing or saying, like. And so we were done one day in the studio. It was like 11:30 at night. We had turned the computer off. We weren't planning on working anymore. And we started talking, me and a couple guys in the studio and Jonathan Smith specifically, who produced the album. And he's a really good friend. We're just talking about other songs that we grew up singing. And then I could sing youg Love Popped up and when the music fades. Heart of Worship. Yep. And then inevitably, awesome God came up and someone in the studio said, man, my church just actually led that course and went off. And I was like, man, I've been seeing, like, clips of people leading it lately, and it's been really lighting my heart up and reminding me of the first times I learned how to play guitar and lead worship. That was one of the songs that I learned, you know, not the verses. I didn't ever know how to play the verses, but the chorus, you know, because you're actually. You're referencing Michael W. Smith, who. So many people think it's a Michael W. Smith song originally, but it's actually a guy named Rich Mullins who wrote the original song. And it came. His original came out in 1980. 88. Michael re recorded it in, like, 2000 or late 90s, I can't remember when. And that went even huge, you know. And so I remember this song. So I was born 84, so. And it came out 88, so I was 4. I remember singing it when I was 6, 7, 8 years old in church, you know, and my parents singing it and. And when they said awesome God is like, oh, man, that'd be so cool. Like, just like we're putting a chorus of. Because he lives. What if. What if a song flowed into awesome God and then one guy in the studio is like, let's just rewrite the verses. They're. So no one. No one sings the old verses anyway, as a joke, you know, because they're great, by the way. Rich Mullins wrote great verses. But it's true, like, whenever you hear the song sung in a worship set,
- [25:11]
A
we don't think the chorus.
- [25:12]
B
So we started writing it, and it was kind of, like, somber, you know, like, God who wasn't is to come, you know, kind of revelation, kind of very holy. Our God is awesome God. And one guy's like, but what if Forest Frank did it? What would he do? You know, that kind of. It just is like. Like, what if it was like, more, like, more pop, more hidden. So then it became like, more of a practice in songwriting than it was anything my mind that it was going to be for my album. And we just had a blast in the studio for literally 30 minutes. We turned the computer back on, got a beat going, and we're just like, like, jamming to it, you know? And I wrote the lyrics so fast, Like, I didn't even. I just was, like, trying to think. Think of things that made sense and rhymed. Like, I wasn't. It was a Holy spirit moment, but I didn't realize it, you know, it wasn't one of those, wow, holy spirit. It was just like the Lord was in it and we didn't even know. And we were just laughing and going for it. And we had the whole song demoed out from start to finish in like 30, 40 minutes.
- [26:06]
A
Wow.
- [26:06]
B
And we. I went to bed not thinking we were even going to put on the record. Woke up the next morning, listened to it, and all of us in the studio were like, wait, this is kind of awesome. Pun intended. And so then we started making plans. Like, well, let's put on the record. Let's get a band over. Let's do the whole thing. And then we realized, oh, wait, we need to. We need to ask the people own this song. If this is okay. And so we reached out to the people that own the publishing and people that own the copyright, and I think even, like, some trust, some family trust of Rich Mullins was involved. And so we had to send it everywhere and get the okay. And they all signed off on it, which is so kind of them. Even then, I wasn't, like, sweet getting out a song that everybody streams, you know, or the big song on the record. It was just more like, I can't wait to sing this song that it's like, lighting my heart up to have this chorus again. And I hope it does that for some people. And it turned out to be a real connecting point, you know, and. And I'm just a blip on the story of a really iconic, beautiful, awesome song that I think will be around forever, you know, I think in heaven we'll sing it, too. And can't wait to give Rich a high five and say, hope that was okay, bro. You know, And I'm sure you will. Oh, yeah. I'm thankful to be a small part of it, man.
- [27:11]
A
That one really spoke to me as I was listening through. Like, man, I just. There's so many moments throughout the album, which is kind of what triggered my, like, going back and, like, listening to all of. All of your old stuff, too. It's just like, there's so many moments where I was like, man, I remember singing that at summer camp as a kid. I remember singing that the summer I first got saved and how, like, that just meant the world to me in the moment when I first accepted Christ as my savior. It was like worship was, like, the way I felt like I could connect to God because I didn't really understand how to read my Bible and, you know, understand it yet. And it was like, these songs were, like, how I connected to worship. And I think that's it's. It's so cool how, like, you wove that into your new stuff and into this new album. Like, you're bringing back the old, but you're also giving it some new life for the next generation of kids who are going to go to summer camp and hear these songs and, you know, encounter God for the first time.
- [28:09]
B
I'm aware of the time I've spent doing this, you know, I'm aware that it's my 10th studio album. Plus there's three Christmas ones, you know, which are. Which.
- [28:17]
A
Which. I mean, I'm always a sucker for a good Christmas album. It always.
- [28:21]
B
But at the same time, you just to think that I always also feel really fresh in my heart with the whole thing. And like, it's just that God is doing a new thing in the world, I feel like, and in my heart. And I'm just, I'm here for it, whatever he wants me to do. And I hold it all with a very. I try to hold it all with a very open hand, you know, and I'm just up for whatever. I really just want to do whatever he wants me to do and be in his will and see this kingdom come and. And I'll try my best just to be a. A good steward of what he's given me, you know, But I try to keep my heart simple. I think that's a big thing, you know, just like, what am I here for? I'm here to preach Jesus and boast in him and to see the church encouraged and to see people saved. And so that's what's going to happen with every record and every time I
- [29:05]
A
get on stage with the release of the record. And then obviously you've been singing a lot of these songs for a while while you've been on tour. Is there a story that you've heard of someone listening to the album or a moment that's happened on tour that like, has been particularly meaningful to you or like, man, I'm really. It's been really cool to see God work in that way again.
- [29:26]
B
I hesitate to say these kind of things because it sounds like there's so many, but there has been because people can write in so easily through a message or a DM or whatever. You just see a lot now and people post awesome. Yeah, it's so cool when it's good. It's awesome. It's cool right now in our world how people can just like DM me or Facebook message me a video of their kids, you know, singing along to the song in the back of the car. You know, I think some of my favorite because I really relate to it because it's similar thing happening with my kids is so many people that are connected with awesome God that loved it when they were kids. Now they're. They're like, I don't even know if my kids knew this song. But now they're like saying, play that awesome God song. I think it's a Phil Wickham song, you know, which I'm like, okay, that's awesome. But. But they have their kids singing the back or got in the semi videos and my kids are doing the same thing. And so I mean there's big stories. There's stories about people giving themselves to Jesus. And for the first time they're listening to the record and coming out to a show and saying, I don't think I've ever seen my dad lift his hands to Jesus. And he's. He's doing it ever since we went to summer worship nights every. He wants to get to church early and be a part of the worship where he always tried to miss it before, you know, all the little things I think are, are so special, but also the timing of this album was really unique for me. It came out two days after the death of Charlie Kirk, which we're still in the aftermath of that as a country, as a culture, and, and all people's feelings around that and mourning and grieving and all that stuff, and we're just not supposed to see. And just the fact that we could see his murder, you know, in front of. We're not supposed to see that. You know, it's not like. So we're not used to it and all of us reacting to that. And so for just a few hours, a few days later, for my song to come out in the tragedy of that and all the other stuff that had been going on too, school shootings and other people kill. And I know this is getting heavy right now, but it's, it's. What's this reality of what our world's going through and we're just face to face with the darkness, you know, and then some people on different sides of the aisle, even Christians on different sides of the conservative or liberal, like, having different viewpoints about if someone should be held up like all that. And I'm just kind of in the middle of it as someone like, well, what do you say? You know, I was so proud to put out this record in the middle of that because, like, this is what I say, you know, that God is good, that we need Jesus. There's so much power when we worship the Lord and. And so to get so many dms from all different sides of perspectives saying, thank you so much for giving me something fresh to put my eyes to Jesus and remind me of who's on the throne, of who I am in him, that I can look above the fray and see where my help comes from, that I can look above the emotions here and realize I know the end of the story was such an honor and a heavy thing. Like, we had all the hype, fun, content ready to, to release that day, you know, and we just like, you know, scrap it all. I'm just going to do a selfie video and just say, hey, I said the same thing is like, hey, we had, like, plans for this week and today and yesterday to like, roll out the album with like, these high slick, cool videos that we. And we just deleted them all, really. You're never going to see them. And because it's just like, we just want. We hope the record just shines truth and hope and the light of Jesus in people's lives, wherever you're standing, that this would be an encouragement and something you remember your marching orders as a Christian, which is to love and to lift up the banner of Jesus and. And so to have the album come out and now we're still fresh in it, but have the album come out and be fresh in the light of what's been going on. I considered it a true honor and was really proud to stand for Jesus. And that's what I'll continue to do.
- [33:14]
A
I love that. Thank you for sharing that. I always think it's cool to get to kind of hear the stories behind the. These albums is, you know, I get to have these conversations, but just to kind of hear the prayer behind it. I mean, just to point people to Jesus. I mean, what a great way to spread the gospel. Like, you've been given this awesome opportunity. Like, God's really put you in a really cool place to be able to share the gospel with millions of people all the time. And I, for one, am grateful for. For your ministry and how it's impacted my life. But, man, Phil, thank you so much. I don't want to take too much more of your time, but thank you so much for sitting down and having a bit of a conversation with us, talking about the album and sharing some of the heart behind it. I typically ask this question to close out, but I just wanted to ask, like, as you kind of shared a little bit about this, but, you know, as the album's finally, like, out in the wild and, you know, you've spent a lot more time with these songs than any of us have at this point. But as it's finally released, like, what is your prayer? You know, as people hear it for the first time? Like, if you were able to sit down with someone who's listening to the album for the first time, like, what would you want them to hear and experience?
- [34:20]
B
I think I have kind of answered it a little bit, and it's a simple answer. I think there's a lot of people, especially right now, this is one specific thing that. That would ascribe to a belief in God that would say they have Christian values that maybe even Go to church on a semi regular basis, even a regular basis. But I like that man I spoke about who, like he's a weekly church man, but the idea of lifting his hands to God, not that that's a sign of Christianity, but it's a sign. I think it's a sign of intimacy. It's a sign of kind of what's going on in your heart, you know. But that's not just specifically lifting your hands, but just like wanting to say, jesus, I want to go full on with you. Like that's a specific prayer. Because I know we have a lot of people in the country like that that are good people, that are trying to live good value lives and that like hearing how the Bible applies to their life but hasn't their hearts haven't been awakened yet to the reality of the presence of God and that the Holy Spirit wants to live in them and to out of them flow living streams of living water as they drink from the living water of Jesus, like to really become a light burning with the gospel of Jesus, you know. And so I, I hope in this time where I think people are seems like more apt to turn to maybe go get a Bible or go to church or say, okay, I want to know what I really believe here. I don't want to be a sideline Christian anymore. That this would be a soundtrack to discovering Jesus in that way for the first time. This song, this record is full of the redemption and resurrection idea of what happens when we know Jesus. There's a song called Resurrection Story. There's a song called what if I told you'd that literally has Billy Graham giving a altar call at the end of it. There's this song called Abel, you know, you freed me on a Friday when you died for all my sins. You saved, saved me on a Sunday. You came back to life again over and over again. The victory and resurrection of God and, and then turning to because he's good, because he loves us. And so I hope that this like, reminds Christians that we have a reason to have joy overflowing in our hearts no matter what the circumstance, and gives them new fresh perspective of like, oh yeah, like I am standing on the side of the resurrected king. I'm standing. We're not waiting for the victory. We're not hoping Jesus actually does what he says he does. He's already won. And so that take to remind the Christians, like, we don't need to cower. We don't need to hope. God might bring revival one day. Like, revival is for the taking for anybody that wants to be revival in this world. You know what I mean? And so I hope this record is, like, something that lights people's hearts up and that the church's heart's up. Like, oh, God is good. People need Jesus. I have him. This is what he did for me, you know? And, yeah, I hope that encourages the church lights fires in new ways in people's hearts. Also, Like, I hope people just get pumped on, like, the guitar sounds. You know,
- [36:59]
A
being on the team here at Multitracks, like, getting to hear all those individual guitar parts. I'm like, oh, man. I get the treat of always being able to, like, yeah, I know each guitar part and I hear it all. So, man, well, thank you so much for taking some time out of your day and sitting down talking with us. It's been a pleasure, and congratulations again on the album release.
- [37:17]
B
Thanks so much.
- [37:18]
A
Hopefully we can talk again sometime soon.
- [37:19]
B
Soon, yes. Thank you so much, Stuart.